Should Europe have its own army? With Britain set to (in theory) leave the EU in 2019, one of the largest defence spenders in the European Union is about to leave. Almost 25% of EU defence expenditure currently comes from the UK, and Britain has historically obstructed any moves towards a common EU military. With the British and their veto on their way out (and with President Trump openly questioning US commitment to NATO) could it finally be time to move ahead on security and defence integration?
What do our readers think? We had a comment sent in from Heinrich on our ‘Suggest a Debate’ page, who believes that one day the European Union will have a common army which, possibly, could act as a counterweight to US military might internationally. Is he right? Or is he ignoring political reality?
Is it time for a European army? We asked Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) from all sides of the political spectrum to stake out their positions on this question, and it’s up to YOU to vote for the policies you favour. See what the different MEPs have to say, then vote at the bottom of this debate for the one you most agree with! Take part in the vote below and tell us who you support in the European Parliament!
Radical Left
Sabine Lösing (GUE/NGL), Member of the European Parliament:
We reject any further militarisation of the European Union and believe that the European Union should be a purely civilian union and not a military union. Therefore, this question is superfluous in the context of our basic program. At the same time, however, I would like to say that, even if one supported this idea, which I do not, it is not constitutionally possible at all in my view. For a European army we would also need a European federal state, with corresponding parliamentary powers which the European Parliament does not have at all.
Social Democrats
Tanja Fajon (S&D), Member of the European Parliament:
Greens
Bodil Valero (Group of the Greens), Member of the European Parliament:
We don’t believe it’s a good idea to have a common army. We think that we have, for example, the battlegroups that we can send out in peacekeeping missions; they have never been used so far, even though they cost a lot. That could be a first step towards working more together. It’s good to coordinate the different armies we have in Europe, but we should not have a common European army.
Liberal Democrats
Hilde Vautmans (ALDE), Member of the European Parliament:
Centre Right
Alojz Peterle (EPP), Member of the European Parliament:
It wouldn’t be a problem, in technical terms, to establish military units or a so-called ‘European army’. The political question is how and when, or for what purpose this army will be used. We are again speaking about the problems of political unity. We have to agree who is our enemy and where we should engage our army. And I remember how it was when Slovenia was attacked 25 years ago. At that time, there was no European Common Foreign and Security Policy. And I would say we still have problems with that because different Member States have different opinions of the main challenges.
Conservatives
Anna Fotyga (ECR), Member of the European Parliament:
Eurosceptics
Fabio Massimo (EFDD), Member of the European Parliament:
Curious to know more about EU defence cooperation? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).
The command should be turned between the states, and it should be divided by nationalities
Paul X
..and there in lies the biggest problem, 27 nations each working to their own agendas is why the EU as an organisation is so inept…..trying to force 27 militaries under one command and control structure will lead to one of the most ineffective armed forces on the planet….
That’s again an odd question. Militaries from various EU countries already work together a lot, mostly under the umbrella of NATO. Ergo, an “EU army” can easily be formulated through closer cooperation, outside NATO. It’s a parallel to the EU itself, countries retain their individuality, etc. while also being stronger as part of a community.
Paul X
NATO works because (like it or not) the US as the largest contributor dominates proceedings. Just who exactly is going to be the lead country in any EU army?
dannispillett
the uk the best armed forces in Europe will not be part of it anyway we will stick with America the strongest armed forces in the world 21 years service british army
Si è il momento giusto .E deve anche sviluppare una deterrenza credibile nucleare partendo da quella Francese It is the right time .It must also develop a credible nuclear deterrence starting with the French, not to be a rich and luxurious porcelain vase in the middle of the iron pots …
what about irish and swedish neutrality Kevin? they could take on more UN duties instead. It would be more about protecting the EU borders, and intervening in disaster areas, french already have nukes…do we really need anymore? if they go off we are all screwed anyway, french and italians have good airforce and navy, irish already do a lot of UN work, not being part of the Joker in Gotham City’s lunacy would be a good thing, but also not being a part of the U.S. wars would be a good anyway, retaining control of our bases would be good too, so in prinicple yes, but carefully does it.
What for? To protect non existing borders? Or “fascists” that do not like nice people from ME? We do not need protection, we are liberal open minded people that overcame “populist” agendas about borders and national states. Allahu Akbar! :)
So that you can First manage your own damn near-abroad, and then also stop free-riding our strategic alliance like a bunch of welfare queens, and carry some of the #$%^& strategic defense burden yourselves.
Max Berre, thank you massa /slave owner/, you bring 1€ in Croatia and take out 100€ in profits, so shut up! By the way Croatian troops are in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Baltic states, Africa!
these people would take our money for their services. this is just a job, same as miner or firefighter. so.. would you sign up to be part of firefight service or you just want other people to go a die for you in fire?
Absolutely not. The EU has far too much control over member states as it is. The EU should be disbanded. Though we’ll probably all lose another ton of money changing back to our own currencies. A beast with many unelected heads, feeding from an overflowing trough.
The alternative seems to be member-nations mostly free riding the NATO alliance. As an american tax-payer, that is not something that I wont to keep paying for indefinitely.
NATO is another pile of crap. As an Irish tax payer, I’m certainly not happy at American military planes refuling in Shannon and breaking our neutrality.
Palvolgyi Denes Actually, Obama also made reference to this matter. NATO’s strategic free-ridership problem has actually been an ongoing frustration in Washington since the Clinton administration. And yes, I still have US taxes to worry about. The only way I could completely get away from that would be to renounce my US citizenship AND move all my assets abroad (not ever gonna do either of those though).
Yes. if the EU is going to matter in the world. It’s going to need its own viable institutions. It’s also going to need to be able to influence events in its own near-abroad.
real question is: does it make sense to have national armies within the EU? We have no borders between us and no need to have actual armies defending each other’s territories. Do we need an army for external threats to the EU? Yes of course
We have now voted to leave and will regain our borders back.
Also you keep saying “WE”,the EU should fight it’s own battles because I can tell you as an ex serviceman virtual NO Brit would fight for the EU.Our oath is to Queen& Country.
“Warmongering EU”…
Should I remind you of who was US’ biggest ally in the phony Irak war?
Tom King
I think regional forces based on blocs could distribute the costs of the armed defence of Europe. There could be a GermanoNordic bloc, FrancoLatin bloc and an Eastern bloc. This might be an effect way to divide costs while distributing responsibilities about. Just cause Britain’s left doesn’t mean that it isn’t interested in European affairs pertaining to defence. I’m sure it would come around to collaborative drills with its Allies. And let’s no forget Trump won’t be around forever folks. His popularity plummets with each breath we take. America likes it’s traditionally “unchallenged” presence in other lands and I’m sure a EU army would have the Yanks as stumped as the Russians.
Yes, its time! Europe has a capacity to be very porwerful force globaly! This union wont survive only with money and good principles. Some … neighbours are thinking about it as a week one. Its time to show up some real power!
Yes, cause next time when some nation decides to leave EU we could send army and kill all opposition like Americans did in CIvil War.
We need to defend integrity of EU even if it means exterminating all citizens or rebellious state…
/SarcasmOff
The people who answer yes to this question make me glad I voted for Brexit. I have a child in the British military and this is my biggest fear, that one day there will be a European Army that individual member states will have no control over. It’s a dangerous plan.
As if individual member states were more or less likely to use ‘defense’ for legitimate purposes. I don’t buy it. whichever way. The least we spend on the military the better.’
Yannick Cornet at least the people of those individual states have some control. Who would be in charge of an EU army? Who would have the final word in a military situation? Militarised superpower is a dangerous thing.
There is much more control towards the EU than towards single governments. People just ignore all the consultations, referendums, representation, interaction offices, popular initiative laws, reports and transparency and so on which EU offers.
They are accountable towards many countries, not just one, and can’t control the media like national governments do, as simple as that.
But we’re happy UK is getting out, too skewed toward interests of USA more than common European ones.
Daniel Bernoulli again, who will have final say in a military campaign if we have an EU army? No one seems to be able to answer this question. Which countries general will be in charge on the battle field…it can only be one, surely?
Kirstie that will be european comission prerogative. You see EU IS PEOPLE its not a bunch od reptiles or aliens but member states leaders that are making decissions
and yet no one can answer my question. i don’t think it is an irrational fear either. British people voted against action in Syria, if it was the decision of the EU then no doubt we would have been forced into military action. EU is NOT people currently, EU is not held accountable by the people, we don’t get to vote!!
Peter
Kirstie, how about the national parliaments, as it is for NATO, too? For my taste, it could also be the European Parliament – as soon as we have true European parties.
diana
Believe me the Germans will have control …why is nobody learning from history ?
It is also the not so wet dream of many ordinary people that want to continue living in peace as in the last 3 generations. No to nationalism. No pasaran.
diana
You mean a superstate …are you stupid or just crazy ?
If we think of the EU unification like the unification of Germany, then its the united military spirit that will unite europe in a common goal. But its better for the EU to first create laws that will make that EU army a solely defensive force
No, the EU armed force needs to be capable of waging war in it`s full glory.
The EU Armed Forces will respond to the European Parliament, the only institution capable of deploying it.
No! For what? To fight the Porblems made by the Leaders and the stupid following of that? We are forced to fight each other every day by “doing business” how about changing that instead of forcing on military shit?
David Cameron was indeed right. The EU is not about peace. It’s about power.
Peter
Do you believe that any EU battle group would attack and occupy other countries like the British army did in Iraq or Libya? Maybe, military should be limited to peacekeeping operations by EU treaty. E.g. German constitution doesn’t allow attacking other countries. Still, Parliamentarians accepted attacks on Serbia and now Syria together with the British and others. I wonder why nobody is sueing them.
Yes. Not only that it will provide cheaper and better defence, it is also a good tool of redistributing money in the EU. Specially the poor countries would benefit dramatic financially.
Yes, because it’s the only practical way of defending ourselves. Think about it: people can move free. In times of conflict, people flee and can no longer be found where they were.
As such, they cannot be protected by their national armies, can they? The practical solution is a European army, to protect any and all people, regardless of their nationality.
This would avoid most of the ethical implications of the current setup.
diana
You are really naive enough to believe an EU army will be there to defend us? What if a far right wing government was voted in in Germany and France …who do you think they are going to defend ? Countries are already divided . In Yugoslavia religions lived next door to each other for centuries and overnight its all gone . You really think people are Europeans first and Muslim/ Jewish / Hindu second . Democracy is very fragile and can be lost in 24hours and your grandchildren will be paying the price
With Erdogan getting crazier week by week and the influx of potential jihadists, sure we need to improve the defensive capabilities.
The weapons lobby will be clicking their champagne glasses..
Only if it is not controlled centralised. If the Northern europeans control the banks the southern should at least control the armies. EU is too unbalanced as it is, and people still push even further this unbalance at the expense of some nations.
Tarquin Farquhar
@Alex
UNBELIEVABLE!
You want a proposed [evil] EU army to be controlled by countries prone to dictatorship and replete with rank corruption!
So that UE led by Germany could enter Poland and make my country do whatever Germany needs to, e.g. accept the so called refugees who were invited by Angela Merkel without asking citizens of other member countries? No, thank you. NATO is enough.
No, NATO is enough. EU has already much power. The example? The Brexit. We, europeans, we not made to give our power away to an international organisation in such dimension, it’s against our freedom and national identities. Solidarity, yes, total control, no.
Not the people, the elites. When the europeans vote something about EU, usually their vote is always no, because we are not the United States of Europe, that is against our DNA. And I do not like federalism. EU is already a federalistic project. For me it’s enough. We must be united, yes, but not in a federalistic way.
Peter
I like the idea of a European federation or rebublic. There is nothing like a ‘national DNA’. We are all Europeans (even the British ;-))
ΕU is in its last days.It has no external enemy and does not need armies.Only anti-terrorism police is needed and it has plenty but is functioning pretty bad.
Tagip violates daily EEZ and your airspace for…fun threatening your borders or you sleep in your world of peace and….. death in your sleap? You only care for εμφυλιο σαν γνωστοι μαζόχες
It is time for an global army alliance made up advanced,secular democratic countries regardless of geography or race. Most of europe is made up small or micro states never will be able to contribute on large scale for an regional army whereas an global alliance made of japan,Australia,European countries and latin America would be an greater and more solid platform and an better opportunity for technological transfers fir every country’s defense sector.
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
NO .. Simply tighten border control, stop being Turkeys bitch, and end the war in Syria .. Or it this aimed at the pathetic claim of the “Russians are coming” if so lets gorw up.
I don t want the EU to prepare a war. So i don t want an EU army. Any european country has an army strong enough to ensure internal security. Why should we build something bigger?
Europe is an instrument for peace, not for war
European Armed Forces – In accordance with Article 113, 142 and 150 paragraph 3 of the Constitution of the European Union as a federal state, the European Union shall establish European Armed Forces for purposes of defence. Their numerical strength and general organizational structure must be shown in the budget of Union. Apart from defence, the European Armed Forces may be employed only to the extent expressly permitted by Constitution European Federation. http://european-federation.blogspot.com/2015/12/european-armed-forces.html
Paul X
Complete load of unintelligible tripe written by a Federal EU fantasist, and you don’t need to look any further then the first paragraph to realise that (Martial law involves a little bit more than soldiers protecting property and directing traffic)
Paul X
And Its quite ironic that the “coat of arms” is based on the UK combined forces insignia considering that is the one country that will never be taking part….
With England leaving, US withdrawing from NATO, Turkey building alliance with Russia and EU periphery burning… Not a bad idea. But who will be in command and giving orders? Juncker??
Si,indiscutiblemente.Europa necesita tener un ejército propio para dar valor a su política exterior y tener una independencia real en las organizaciones internacionales,incluida la OTAN.Ademas de ser más eficientes se racionaria mucho mejor el gasto en armamento. Mejor un ejército fuerte que 27 pequeños.
Because we don’t have the same interests! I rather have to be in my nations army “reserve personnel ” for the rest of my life than having to beg for help from people that can’t find my county on the map and they don’t really care what will happen to my people!
It is interesting that the major opposition are members of NATO except Finland and Sweden, who according to British media they want to join the British-led Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF). The EU army is only good if it is independent from NATO and its unethical agendas. But if it is to support NATO then the EU is going in the same unethical wrong direction.
Tarquin Farquhar
@Julia Hadjikyriacou
You honestly think that an EU army lead by the cu#t and the co#k (Germany and France) with their terrible and violent histories and predilections would be less unethical than NATO?
There are certainly other issues more urgent to be solved, the objectif of the UNion, it’s functioning together etc. Maybe there should also be a certein time for Member Srares $$$$$
Sorry, i clicked too early; Time for Member STates to reflect whether they want to follow the British example and some others just to be told, that their organisation does not correspond with european principles anymore and that they should take action to rectify this or get out of the Union
Hmm .. not a good idea, it would inevitably end up being controlled by the stronger countries such as Germany or France. The EU has to realize that it is not a single country and until it is (hopefully never) pushing for an EU army is always going to fail .. look what it took to unite the US, is that what EU citizens want a civil war?
EU Reform- Proactive
Never! Why the obsession to (AGAIN & again) debate the pros & cons of an EU Army- “clearly” declared by “GIANTS” France, Germany, Italy & Spain as not to be “OUR” objective?
Only a lone ALDE “spear woman” chooses to sharpen her spear in line with other DWARFS like Lithuania, Latvia & Junckers Luxembourg. How can the published statistics of 74% “for” & “18%” against be representative? Some went bonkers?
Junckers “for” motivation typically rests on an inherited inferiority complex- “to show the world”- or? Bad! Are there no other & better options- than his ONE only option?
R U kidding, people? How could there possibly be a “European Army” if there are no common interests and common foreign policy?…
Rob mills
God no and the Germans want nuclear weapons which they and the japanese are forbidden to have after the war , who is the enemy Russia trade with them instead .
An army under who’s control? Brussels? No, thanks.
Brussels should be deleted from the map and EU should be disbanded altogether.
NATO works better than any EU army. It includes not only EU but many other states. It also works because it is primarily a peace keeping organization not an army. Is better each country to have their own armies but all armies to work together as a world police in peacekeeping rather than self-interest. Armies would be used in self interest.
But if you really wanna make an army they all better be Christian and march to Istanbul to retake Constantinopole.
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
Why? Only five of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 28 member countries last year met the alliance goal of spending at least 2% of their gross domestic product on defense. Better increase spending to 2% of GDP
Clearly some people have forgotten what happened the last time a bunch of crazed Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe were allowed to militarise.
when was the last time half a billion of europeans voted a parliament to represent them all?? because sure as hell it didn’t happen in the third reich.
Ivan Burrows only seen the first two parts of the film and it says it clear that Nazis stoped the communists take hold of powerhouse of Europe then 1933 the powerhouse of the world
Had the communists prevailed over Nazis I’m sure u know it would have been a very different western world that we leave in today
Nobody is denying who the Nazis are but there was a very big good out of the evil
It never ceases to amaze me how little you EU fanatics actually know about your history.
The Nazi party gained 11 million votes in 1932 and the German people made Hitler chancellor, only 42% of EU Europeans voted for your parliament in 2014 with a 1/3 of those voting for anti EU MEPS. Hardly a resounding love for the EU.
How many votes did your president Juncker get ?, does that mean he more like Stalin than Hitler ?
The European Parliament does not make law as in a democracy, it merely the rubber stamping department of the unelected European Politburo.
The EU institutions have more in common with dictatorships than any democracy.
You consider the Brussels created migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis and the misery heaped onto millions of people across the EU to be ‘good’ ?
Never. Communism wihout power is funny and stupid. See at drunk Juncker and Shultz or stupid gender ideology and “equality” ideology. Communism with power is dangerous. Communism always has consequences as terror and millions of victims.
It is time to cut military expenses for lack of external enemies.Only Turkey is threatening EUs FRONTIERS in Greece and has occupational force of 40.000 troops in EU s member Cyprus.There is need only for security police to control terrorism which is the only threat.
Only Turkey is threatening borders and EU has no danger? That’s delusional. Turkey is the one who’s trying to keep Europe clear of mass immigration and border security from the middle east. And let me kindly remind you that it was Greek Cyrpiots who voted no for Annan plan.
Anan plan was a turkish inspired plan which left the possibility open for Turkey to first influence all Cyprus decisions in its own interests and then to overrun the whole island. Turkey is an imperialist state with visions of invading any territory within its reach and eventually the whole of Europe through Islamic expansion
Of course it was a big No to anan plan as our country will never be a state of turkey and that’s what anan plan was all about to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. We are Europeans not Turks!! Turkey already invaded Cyprus with 40.000 troops remaining in Cyprus and it’s illegally occupying the northern part of Cyprus against all international laws and regulations!
Turkey is an imperialist state with invasion fantasy. So Greece is not? Implying slavic Macedonians are Hellens, and chasing Megali Idea. Sorry guys our govts. are equally worse. Greece was forcing monoculturism in Cyprus with violent ways and Turks seized their cultural relatives, that’s what happened. And Annan plan was something democratic. The otherwise of Annan plan is a whole Greek Cypriot ruled Cyprus which doesn’t sound so democratic to me. We can discuss this until morning so I’m going to stop and wish you kalinixta.
That’s just an attempt of Germany to influence a hypothetical European army directly, since Germany is not allowed to have an army greater than a certain number (WWII)
funny you have the flag of cyprus as profile pic, i can’t think of a better place where EU forces would be able to improve the situation. Especially now that the UK is fucking off, who knows what happens to their presense on the Cyprus isle
The EU would only use it to force Europeans to accept globalist ideology. Every corrupted empire in history recruited mercenaries to keep power. Unfortunately as each month goes by it feels more true. The EU is not representing Europeans but global business and global elite.
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
PS. if NATO is the defence mechanism then that automatically includes the UK armed forces in the defence of europe
Actually the EU turned a blind eye to a million plus migrants the German government encouraged to come to Germany breaking all EU regulations in the process. The German government even cited a need for workers as a justification. Big business love cheap labour.
diana
They also turned a blind eye to what some of those migrants did to the German women . They even turned a blind eye to the fact that some of them went and killed other Europeans in terrorist attacks. How can you have a cohesive EU when one woman decides to let in millions of people without any consultation with other members. . Then she demands other countries take them . She then does a deal , without any consultation, with Turkey to get her out of the mess and promises them free movement in the EU. All of this chaos because she wants to appear to be a saint before the next election. Can you imagine what she will do with an army at her command ?
Definitely yes. The current European Security and Defence Policy unit of the EU needs to be expanded and transformed into a all professional million personnel EU Defence Force
Yes, Europe should have an INDEPENDENT, EUROPEAN military force all by itself, however, it should be wise and restrained enough to never use it for hegemonic purposes, like SOME OTHER BACKWARD primitive apes do. If Europe finally has its own army, it should only be used for defensive and peaceful purposes, never again for all those arrogant escapades on the continent and in the world as Europe is, alas, infamous for from history. Peace
What has the Dutch Ukraine -EU AA ref got anything to do with bullying or the EU army ? An advisory ref with a turnout of 32 % ? Gimme a break troll, though I must admit an answer from the infamous Ivan is quite the honour.
Next time u should be critical of the UK army and it’s existence, no longer is it the business of the English, or wherever else you come from, what the EU does.
NO! I don´t want my children fighting for the global elite! NO, NO, NO!!!! Plus, EU is going to fall like a sand castle…We have Brexit already, and if Le Pen wins, France will exit too…And this´s the begining…Bullshit to EU! They have been leading us to misery, poverty, etc…They have been playing the banks cartel game all the time long…NO!!!
each EU member has an army – all it needs is a new command structure and a job/control/transparency description agreed upon. Could result in great savings and possible less corruption on purchases.
Please, tell us why European states should spend money on military when we have NATO, which is already asking for much more money than it should. Are you threatened by any other country? Or have we problems with migration, employment, social security, demography and welfare state? Please, let me know if your priority is bombing some other state for the sake of doing it
The defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
If you think europe does not need defence then you have obviously not appreciated the continuous and continuing state of peace in europe and around the world generally has enjoyed derived directly from NATO.
What NATO is asking is very reasonable – it’s asking for states to help in their own defence – and in return NATO guarantees to defend such nations with the might of all the member nations- one of which as mentioned is the most powerful on earth.
Go in Ukraine or Crimea and ask people from there if they want cuts in the military. So long you have neighbours who want to rebuild empires (Putin,Erdogan) and unstable countries as in north Africa you cannot afford the luxury of not having an army. For example Italy exists because it has an army to defend its teritory
Unfortunately the actual solution for having a foreign policy commissioner doesn’t work. I think that is better to have a council of foreign ministers, which to apoint a representative.
You keep asking and I keep saying no! It cant even manage a currency responsibly so why trust it with an army? Ireland had an army controlled remotely for 800 years by people with no cultural appreciation or knowledge of the country. Do you think we re going to sign up for another? The Germans knew nothing despite besserwisserei about the financial crisis in Ireland and didnt want to know. Ireland will never accept the jackboots of a foreign army again.
Totally. I think even Eurosceptics should agree on that. Denying cooperation in other areas has its arguments, but not when it comes to common EU defence policy
Without a complete and effective defence system EU will be open to the threats of every tyrant in the area such as Erdogan. Being intimidated by such tyrants EU loses its credibility and as a result earns the contempt of its members who will seek security within their national borders after exiting the EU. Lack of EU defence will signal its downfall
This whole debate on ‘defense’ is sickening. I say: the less we spend, the better we will be in the longer term. I think Einstein had a great quote on that: “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
We share the same territory, we have the same threats and we suppose to have the same security goals,hence the European army is a necessity. In case of war we must be united, so none restrains from the effort because the war is to at its border. NATO it is a partial solution because it doesn’t pay for the armies from the Eastern Europe who are poorer, but more exposed at external aggression. For example Netherlands spend 10 billion $ in military expenditures while Latvia who has a flat field between them and Russia, spend 250 millions. If Russia attacks Latvia,Netherland has to intervene because it is in NATO, but its investment in military was not done for Latvia, and it could be of little help (due to distance, technology etc), and Netherland will lose more men in the war. A better defended Latvia will discourage a Russian intervention and Netherland will not fight in the war. Now too much is invested where is not need (Western Europe) it and little is invested where is need it (Eastern Europe)
What would you feel like if I said “Never with poor Portugal”? What is this? ENOUGH with this last century non-sense. This is 2000! No nationalism is welcome, nationalism is old, stinky and toxic. EU means European UNION, not Division. Germany is nothing more and nothing less than all the other nations of Europe and Member States of the Union. Always with Germany! And always with the other 26 Member States, yours comprehended! And also always with all the other European States which will join our huge, unprecendented project of unity, peace and prosperity.
Yes to an EU army, it will be another step to unite our citizens and our intensions. Yes to an EU army also part of NATO. Why do the USA or Canada have a united army while for us there are 27 different, money-sucking, semi-authonomous, not well organised bodies? Do we talk about South Carolina army, Nebraska army, California Republic army, Saskatchewan? Not even thinkable, right? So why are we still back to decades ago, with a Slovenian army, a Swedish army, a Spanish army?Let’s face reality, it would be a disaster to control all this mess if a real threat came to our door. We must stand together to be strong and free, as our allies are and have been for a long time now. STOP INDIVIDUALISM OF NATIONS INSIDE EU, we need a country, this is not 1900.
Excuse me maybe i’m wrong, but aren’t you from Leeds, in England, in United Kingdom, soon-to-be out of EU? If that is the case, why do you use WE and why should your opinion count?
Anyway, this is a dialogue and i am open to everyone’s opinion, wether you’re in or out of the Union, IF it is built on something. So, maybe you want to give a reason to your comment to why the European Union shouldn’t be a whatever federation, confederation, association kind of united country?
I will tell you a reason. British army is the best in the world FACT. Look at the standards of military in EU member states, there shiiiit the standard will drop and look at the Danish army if it rains they go home the dutch the Austrians. conscript’s and like the funding the UK gives to pay for people in other countries we would be paying for these fuckers. Happy we are leaving the corrupt united states of Europe. Europe is lost it will be the united states of islam soon, your all blinkered and cant see whats right in front of you. A war is commng and all in the name of islam
I don’t know, maybe because when e.g. Greece spent for its army the NATO 2% contribution, we got molested by the rest of EU for that?
Unless, you realized when it really matters Europe is divided….
First fix where Europe’s own citizens come from. Who is going to take a stand against the huge rise in illegal migration with either fake passports or with duplicate (ID Fraud) passports that are readily available from Hungary, Poland and Bulgaria. The problem in Britain is that we don’t know where most people from the EU are actually from as there are just so many fake and duplicate ID and passports for these people. The British system works on the assumption that if the documents are legal then so is the person, problem is for the last 4 years most illegal workers are getting real documents by using the details of real people with and/or without permission of the real person. So really checking documents without checking to see if the person is actually resident in more than one country is a waste of time, but in an age where we are looking for cheap answers we will never stop the avalanche of undocumented people working and living, getting finance and creating havoc with assumed identities. If in doubt then go to Ukraine in the Oblasts of Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk and in the villages and towns as see where more then 70% of the citizens have acquired duplicate ID’s to work in Europe, and forget the police and Frontex – they just couldn’t be bothered.
Yes, a new Europe, a new EU Government and Parliament, lobbies out, corruption out, same taxes, same rights, one common army, no more secret commisions.
Absolutely not! 1) IT army is voluntary. 2) who would fight for another country? 3) who decide to fight who and how many soldiers involve in a conflict? Germany – France- Italy? EU IS NOT UNITED AND WON’T BE NEVER UNITED.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
Εvery EU country has an army although only Greece and Cyprus have external threats from Turkey a member of NATO and candidate member of EU!!!!!.So a joint force from existing armies for use against EUs threats is possible.This move will eliminate member countries armies to minimum number for use in internal emergency situations.Overall number of armed forces on EU wil be significantly cut and preformance improved very much.
No. EU is getting tyrannical and this could be a danger to its people. Leadership of the EU has a lot to answer for. They have enabled terrorism and crime to blossom and endangered their own people. They need to be in jail. Then we could talk about army.
No. Europe is not North America. A united states here cannot work. The cultural differences on pretty much all levels are so large it would just be awkward. Europe will never be a country, deal with it.
At a time where so many people feel disenfranchised, ignored an steamrolled by out of touch beurocrats in Brussels, further stripping away national sovereignty and further integration into a synthetic state is not the right way to go.
Stop lingering on the 20th century, Victor Kristiansson! We’ve built a union because we came to the conclusion that we have more in common than what sets us apart! Of course we’ll never be a country, Europe has a lot of regional idiosyncracies, but I believe that is what makes us stronger!
Angele
Not that for the time being, but discussion could go on. In general, I am pro military forces, being global rather regional, like NATO, UN peace keepers to avoid the bias. To improve the same, and devote EU budged money for the social pillar. Against additional militarisation, it can just provoke the conflicts. It costs, but the experience of the last decades shows the applications mainly for peace keeping purposes.
Some countries would want to settle old scores with foes (Greece – Turkey relations come often close to confrontation). Why should a Dutchman have to fight a war which is not a collective issue concerning strictly two old foes?
So what you suggest is that if we don’t have an EU army Greece will go to war with Turkey? First of all it makes no sense, second of all both are NATO members and whoever is the attacked one will be supported by NATO, and last but not least: Greece is in the Eurozone and Eurozone countries will do everything to make the currency as stable as possible so they will support Greece.
While I can understand this solidarity argument about the eurozone (costing just money), I cannot even imagine having to deal with divisive situations such as a military confrontation between Greece and Turkey (which has been averted mainly by [and thanks to] ol’ Uncle Sam’s intervening). It just ain’t as simple as it seems. There ‘s a lot of things at stake, more than a dislike for Erdogan. There are interests involved, huge arms deals, Russia is just around the corner. Countries will be divided. All the time there will be exclusion prerogatives put forward by countries not comfortable with (or interested in) such and such a confrontation. To replace NATO with an alternative organisation will be risky and it will cause trouble rather than solve problems. As I said, with America out of the way, countries might be tempted to use the new organisation to their advantage in terms of security
You make me laugh, main problem of NATO is underfunding cause only 5 nations pay what it is agreed (Germany pay only 60% what it should) but we will create another army to fix that problem (maybe we can set the level of payments it of the half of nato agreement ) that way for the new army it will seems that everything is ok)
An army that is European will bring young people together from across Europe with a common goal and instill in them a sense of being European that doesn’t exist today. It is consequently critical to a European future that there be an European army.
A common goal to kill savage Russians. How nice. Sign me up!
There is no European identity this won’t save Europe. How about working on promoting some more direct forms of governance participation this would also bring people together in a common purpose.
Joerg Sp – Your common goal, not mine. No need to be a warmonger. The goals of the army are to be determined by the European Parliament. And just because you say something doesn’t make it true: that’s the way of Trump and his type. There is without question an European identity; it is very young, and may never reach adulthood, but it exists.
No. Most of EU members are Nato members and this is more than enough. Keeping in mind EU leadership and it’s policy, Europe is more safe under NATO wing led by the USA.
Only moroons and retards have ‘army’. Peoples with no brain, gangsters have army. Army is good just for distruction, entire country distruction, like we know yet …
Depends on which place on Earth your country is. For example we are always threatened by Turkey and the EU won’t support us on diplomatic level because the weaponry we buy are French and German. So I think it is a little bit more complicated than that.
Yes. The task of such a common army to be clearly defined as not for foreign assignments with options for catastrophe relief. Would save each EU member lots of money in Admin and acquisition of material. Who are National armies within the EU defending against? Who are the enemies? Qui bono?
That’s nice as an idea. The point is, who will command such army? The diplomatic agenda is different for each country and maybe this kind of army, might not be as efficient in protecting the peripheral eu countries meaning their personal rights and land against adversaries. And yes, I’m talking about the approach Germany has chosen ,supporting with her absence, Turkey’s offensive strategy and the occupation of Cyprus
We need less militarism and confrontation in this world and not more, we need to dismantle the NATO and forget about any kind of further aggressive posturing. The environmental threat is the most important one. Also social stratification and increasing divides across and between countries poison our European society. This should be our priorities not some kind of false security through fostering a second cold war.
Europe doesn’t need another major financial parasite. What it need is less hoplophobia. Unfortunately, it’s the other way they are pretty eager to do the things.
Who is going to attack Europe? Or is it already happening? Do not you see alien aggressive people in your streets? You do not need an army but intellect and firmness. Otherwise, your country with its culture will disappear and you even will not notice it.
Petros Papadimas I would not rely on Germans on the threat of Turkey or Russia. I would rather be afraid of the German army. The Islamization of Germany and France deepens.
Only after the clear definition of shared values and goals among all the Nations in the EU. Only after the election of a federal government and a federal President directly voted by all the citizens of the Union.
A united Europe can work efficiently with National Armys, a disentegrated Europe will need a Euroarmy to enforce unpopular political agenda .. what is the right thing to do?
A good way to build a stronger European identity. An Army is not an attack on other countries, but a defensive option. France and Germany have strong national armies anyway, and Brussels is not a bogey man! However, this thread should be about how best to proceed in creating a viable and feasible EU Army, not about critics against “stupid/anti-democratic policies”.
Yannis Manassis
If we think who protects EU today, then it is not really the national armies. We heavily depend on NATO, which though we should continue participating (as EU, not as individual countries), we should be able to defend EU without any real external dependence, as today, from NATO,
Yet special concerns should rule the externals borders of EU and this army will never replace local armies. Even though to proceed with a common army we should first have solved the more substantial questions of what kind of Union we want/need and for what purpose: it is highly time (even passed time) to move forward to a real Federation of people (not states!).
The Hague Invasion Act was written, by AmeriKKKans, as a threat to European countries and members of the International court to protect their mass murders and war criminals from justice. It would make sense to have an European Army, but with the enemy already sleeping inside of Europe in their military bases and torture chambers spread in the continent, what good will it do, if we still play the role of vassals with a Trojan horse?
Why… So the rich can get richer and the poor dead??? Read this very carefully bitch. FUCK YOU!!!
Send the motherfuckers back from where they came from and get a fuck out of their land. Like it used to. But I guess is too late now, is it!!!
We have fought the german dogs for a century and now we have give them the continent on a silver plate.
GERMANY is already incorporing foreign regiment in it’s army.
Better with the Russians than with the germans.
Military power is strongly connected with Diplomacy. We don’t have a common diplomacy yet SO, we wan create a European DEFENSIVE army and let countries have their own small armies that they can use freely. for foreign issues.
…of course not ….we dont need army to destroy …other countries ..and then to create terrorists…dont forget who destroyed so many countries…especially Syria stop bombing innocent people…infants …no european army…
Alexandros Gerofotis
How about solving the Eurocrisis first? Ohhh , there are Euros for a European army you say? So Greece spending 2% of its budget as per NATO instructions was not so bad???? Well, then, if Greece leads that army….We have paid for it after all
Yes, si, oui… Along with all the necessary security apparatus, such as a CIA like organization, it is extremely necessary to have proper intel services.
With Trump, Brexit and Putin, the EU countries get more vulnerable. Who knows what will happen! Brexit breaks the balance of forces in Europe. I believe the EU has to be prepared to defend the EU countries.
Yes! A united EU army, with free enrolment from all countries. It could be phased-in across a couple of decades while national armies are phased-out. With UK’s departure, English becomes a perfectly fitting neutral lingua franca for command. This would make Euorope more independent from NATO and enable a better resources allocation
Ēriks Gasiņš: so what?!? This doesn’t change to situation. It is self-evident that the European countries are not free to decide their foreign policy and this is clearly link to NATO and the American presence in Europe. Who else has so many military basis in Europe, despite not being part of this continent?
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be made here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be done here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
José Bessa da Silva: the poor outcome is precisely caused by the fact that there is not a real government. Each state things just about itself and this is what is killing the EU!
Europa debe tener su propio ejército, sino será un paria entre las Naciones, y su papel no es ese ni tampoco Europa ha llegado hasta aquí para ser una paria. Además tiene mucho que defender.
No unicamente su proprio ejercito pero tambien sus proprios administrationes incluido una constitution de base .
Sin esos bases fundamentales yo me pregunto hasta donde Europa va ha llegar .
(1) The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union. (2) In addition, EU army would disrupt the current balance of military power in the world, which would be unacceptable for current powers and would bring various consequences.
I’ve heard this question asked time and time again, but very little on what this proposed army would entail. Is it just a fancy way of saying increased co-operation between nation states’ militaries or an amalgamation of all the said armed forces into one single bloc? And if the latter, how is it to be managed? How will the various language barriers be overcome? I really need more information on the proposal before I can truthfully answer yes or no to this question.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time it is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on it’s own legs with it’s head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels.
United We Are Stronger
Sorry confederation. Beside that. There are several layers of central government interference.
I don’t think europe is ready for a union so thight. Even if eu officials are pushing in that direction.
Maybe in fifty years, assuming that a pro eu generation will rise and eu iwon’t alienate itself from all the south of the continent.
Beside that, may the europe have a short life.
UK won’t get a say on the matter now, so will have to sit on the sidelines and accept whatever the EU does. However can’t see countries like Ireland agreeing to this, so can’t see it happening
No. It is time for Germany Limited Liability Company to stop pretending to be a nation with a Constitution, for Merkel and hohorts to stop robbing nations and stealing their sovereignty… and stop excessive spending of the EE that is intent on enslaving the people.
No. It wouldn’t get past Ireland and Austria, even if it worked for Sweden and Finland. Until the issue of strictly neutral countries is resolved, this issue cannot be touched.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on its own legs with its head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels due to United we are Stronger.
No, and I really wish that people who want deeper EU integration realise how counterproductive the very term ‘EU army’ is. The EU will always have its proud nation states whether people like it or not and what the EU needs is a closer military alliance built on top of the existing EU structures that allows flexible opt outs for those countries that wish to retain their neutrality. An EU army will be commanded by whome, Junker? Let’s not be ridiculous and let us work on what already exists. That is how the EU will survive into the future.
I am of the opinion that we need a strong EU army because we have plenty of enemies. To the East from different religious parties and from the West the wicked capitalism!
Your enemies are not my enemies. The EU is profoundly corrupt. I’m not willing to give power to the mafia installed in Brussels nor to befoe friends thanks to foreign problem. My country’s only enemy to the east is spain.
I am speaking for all Europe not specifically for my country (for instance Greece)… If we want to have a unique and completely union then the enemies are same for all of us… Yes, your enemy is Spain but both of you are in Europe… You have more to earn than to divide…
I just love the baseless accusations of the EU being “profoundly corrupt”. Any EU Member State on its own is far more corrupt than the EU which has very rigid transparency protocols in place.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Yes, because the EU is econimic giant, but dwarf in military security. Europe must defence itself against foreign enemies and be a big political player in the world.
If you ‘are trying to convince anyone,
you ‘ll be disappointed , and the military is very expensive , disband the NATO out from an EU ‘s army, would be better and, we should also remember that, not everybodys’ citizens, friends as well as enemies, desire an American policeman around.
The EU army must be neural from the NATO, if yes, I ‘ll agree the same too , otherwise I’ll rescind.
it should not be because of Brexit it should have happened right in the beginning and should be enlarged as the EU grows. The Brussel Politions will not defend the people they will hide behind the people.
of course we should have an EU army. Even an European army including other European countries who want to participate. A new sort of NATO alliance of purely European countries.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Putin, Erdogan, terrorists, just to name a few. Also, we would stop relying on the U.S. for our defense. Is it fair that only 5 out of the 29 members pay their due while the rest enjoy the benefits of the alliance without actual contribution. These are the U.S. and the states bordering Russia. When is Europe gonna understand that yesterday it was Georgia, today it’s Ukraine, therefore tomorrow it could be central Europe!
yes, there should be an EU army. Against who? Every country has an army so EU has to have one if we are to see some kind of confederation in the near future.
If this EU army can defend us from Great Britain and AmeriKKKa and it also has a banking system to maintaing stability in Europe without sacrificing the lives and sovereignty of Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Greece and other small, less important countries, the way NATO is doing to satisfy AmeriKKKa, this could be an improvement.
To answer correctly you need to have a real European approach and not just wanting Europe for the benefits only. You see the borders of Europe are not threatened by … Russia only.
Europeans are today concerned for Krimea and Ukraine … a non EU member BUT keep a blind eye on the occupation of EUROPEAN territory … there in CYPRUS!
I’m an American and I think it’s a great idea for the EU to have an army because I think the EU should not depend on the US army due to the instability of our political system. The US political system seems to be going way off track in recent years. Basically we only have two parties and one of the two parties(the Republican party) has become extreme and very disruptive.
Considering the Eu’s current political leanings and involvements, I strongly disagree. Think about their permanent illegal buildings in Israel, and the UN peace corps raling children in Africa, whom they are supposed to protect.
Those are terrible incidents but the US totally funds and supports Israel’s military in suppressing the Palestinians and the Israeli human rights violations. The EU needs some protection against the aggression of the Russian army. Look at the Crimean takeover and military aggression in Ukraine. Trump is opposed to Western Europe and supports the authoritarian dictatorships of Russia and Turkey, as well as, the rolling back of democratic laws in Poland and other East European countries. There’s a rise of populism, fascism, nationalism, etc. in the world today that is very scary. The Western European legacy of democracy, human rights, rule of law, and freedom needs to be preserved in the face of growing authoritarian dictatorships like Putin Erdogan, and Trump.
The EU bureaucrats have wanted their own army since the Lisbon Treaty 2009. The militarisation of europe was written all over that wretched treaty. They’ll use any excuse to get their army and if Russia fits their purpose, they’ll use it. This is all about the slow and steady dismantling of sovereign nation states and the creation of a superstate. No thanks to either proposition. #NoSuperState #NoEUArmy
Why not, we must have our defense and we leave NATO which is not our defense, so we must form the Western European Union ,and after the European political union,but we must finish the European Economy conclusion
…And the pic is of a 50 year old woman, because an army’s primary function is to represent a society’s inclusiveness to all. Oh, and if we get into any real trouble, the US will step in and save us anyway. So French.
Yes, but only if the EU reforms to an accountable people’s democracy first and only then! Europeans have a tragic history of giving too much power to particular individuals who then use it for their own imperial ambitions leading to crippling wars and the destruction of our land and peoples. Prevention is better than cure!
It should have been formed from the beginning of the EEC about 30 years ago. Instead you have left borders like the Hellenic sea to be a passage for refugees and terrorists into Europe. Let’s see now how you handle the Turkish slave drivers and the mad Turkish president
There are most urgent issues than creating an EU army. For instance, we should find out properly what the Europeans think about themselves, about their values and citizenship goals and, only then, start launching policies according to the results. I can understand why Juncker thinks this is kind of an assurance that war between us will never happen again but…I’m afraid they want to do it quickly. It requires a lot of coordination and decision making. Therefore, I’d say that it could work and it seems a nice idea…but maybe it’s not the right moment. And overall, I prefer Europe to lead the world’s peace movement.
It’s time for EU to have its own voice, labor union, currency, harmonized employment laws, minimum social welfare criteria and authority over its member states to avoid being tricked by gimmicks.
Heaven forfend – they could not even organise a piss up in a brewery!!
Smaragda Skordi
Europe is andoubtly a christian continent. Traditions, state functions and procedures, culture and many other facets of public life in most European countries, are based on Christianity.However, recenly, the inflow of refugees and immigrants and also the cultural shift in EU has icreased the persentage of the population that belongs to other religions (or they are atheists)but also the tolerance towards the beliefs and traditions of such polpulation.I m not sure that we still can talk about a “Christian Europe”. Multicultural, yes. Multi-religious”, yes. It is a continent that is changing, a continent that includes and welcomes “the different”. But, what will be the final result and what will be the dominant religious group in the future? We do not know yet. And, we should not abolish our Christian traditions so easily. However, we have to live in peace with other religious groups and give every European citizen the freedom to hold his/her own beliefs without being mistreated or discriminated in the name of religion or other “characteristic”.
diana
Yes like the war in the former Yugoslavia when the EU just sat on its hands whilst genocide took place , wholesale rape of children and women , shooting of men and boys . They did NOTHING . The EU has no backbone and will only ever use an army to fight anyone who dares to stand up to the Eurocrats and Germany. This is just one step nearer to an EU superstate
Europe is threatened with the invasion of simple uncivilized people, not alien armies. The second threat to the EU is its officials with a modest intellectual potential
Maciek Zbżerzny if we greeks use our navy to stop illegal imigration and for exampel we would send 50 boats to our borders to watch for illigal imigrants … the next day turkey will have more than 100 boats at their site calling this action of greece a “war threat”.This what you say is not possible.Only an EU coast guard can do this with no threats from turkey.This are EU borders…i can not understand why we greeks have to buy weapons to defend EU borders and other countries who dont have botders with non EU countries dont help us out with this situation.And of course we have to buy weapons from our eu friends every year.The greek army uses about 30% of our GDP.
A EU Defense Force is long overdue to defend and protect the European Union from external threats like the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union designed by Turkey to undermine and destroy the European Union beginning with the European Institution of Schengen A EU Defense Force would also put a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation of EU member Cyprus since 1974 , which is a British- Turkish alliance against the Americans in Cyprus since 1950 designed to keep the Americans out of Cyprus.
Go for it, we are ready. The result will be the same as every other time a crazed bunch of Europeans with a flag & a plan to unite Europe create an army. :)
In a continent of conflicting interests with a wide variaty of strategic thinking, I ask: who will this army defend us against? We ‘ve got to agree on certain fundamental principles, and -most important- decide who our enemy is. Till then, it’s a waste of money
Brussels would use its army to keep the Nations within the EU in line, would they use it to make you comply with their dictates ? of course they would.
Some EU countries consider enemies countries which are allied to the West via NATO. Some other countries have long standing issues with historical archrivals (Romania-Hungary, or Slovakia-Hungary, or Greece-Turkey). In case of a crisis within Europe, will the EU army remain unbiased at the sidelines? What if one of the two parties requests help? Will the EU army intervene on behalf let’s say of Greece against Turkey? Does an Estonian or a Luxembourger even care about that?
Wouldnt a European Military Ministry/Force lessen the chances of conflict happening inside the EU? It would be another oportunity for integration, this time for soldiers/marines/pilots of different countries, and what the EU needs the most is integration, people putting aside nationalism for European pride
Acaso não tem uma guerra diplomática pendente por conta da ZEE das Selvagens? Acaso não há Olivença? Acaso não existe Almaraz? Ou devemos perdoar o incumprimento do Tratado de Albufeira por parte de espanha? Não sou eu que vou “buscar”. O que digo são factos e a história está em livros para que a leiam. Encontre um enimigo deste país, sem ser espanha, que tenha tantos conflitos territoriais e diplomáticos…não encontra!
The European Union should have a common army as a counterbalance to the Russian army. one who does not understand the importance of his own European army, he has no idea of life. Have neutrality and similar ideas for kindergarten.
Well, there are kindergartens, where kids are taught history so that they remember what germans did to the world ….and today’s EU is German hegemony, isn’t it? Who do you think such army would serve. Remember the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?
Barbara Szela Lesniak You do not understand the world. Reality is something else. I am from Croatia. We had many wars in history, but we did not want one. Do you have your culture and how to protect yourself from the great mix of cultures that are not cultures, “” You know who you are, where you are and where you go. Left political options lead you into big problems you are probably unknowingly aware of.
Too soon. A European Border Guard and a European Coast Guard first.
Next comes a European Air force and Navy.
We have plenty of armies. Leave that until last.
The border patrol sounds very nice. But just imagine sending troops to Hungarian borders that are under EU’s direct supervision. All they’d be doing would be saying “Welcome to Europe”
Each state have and should pay for their own border and coast guards. The UE is not a country and I am not willing to waste money on someone elses borders.
“UE army” means “IV Reich”. Booth are totalitarian. Germany has already burned Europe 2 times. Now germany barbarians are going to burn it 3th time using “refugees” and “UE army”.
That would be a dream for Germany! I hope that Germany is kept out of it for histórical reasons. We miss UK to balance Germany’s ever increasing EU power overtaking.
How can you put Germany out if it’s one of the most powerful armies in the EU they are a democracy now come on be real…but in my view we must go into a federation with a government elected by all of us citizens…
You are such an ignorant. You had to be spanish. My country is one of the most euriceptic and that is why our government had to join anti-EU patliamentary forces in order to reach a majority. Read the news.
Magaly Morales If EU were democratic (but it’s not), there would be different ideas discussed and referendum used as the tool to decide. Poland has always been pro-EU, but aren’t we entittled to different opinions on e.g. Merkel’s immigrant policy? Does it have to be Germany and their French puppet to decide for other independent UE countries. And remember, EU is not a country.
We need a European Army. Now separately we are spending more in total than warmongering USA . It is not practical or efficient.
Also we have a wonderful chance of creating an Army for the future, and Army without old concepts.
We need an Army that fully protects the EU citizens not only from other countries attacks but agains forest fires, floods, earthquakes, illegal migration, cyber attacks…a new Army this century.
There is no “european citizens” because the EU is not a country and never will be. It is also a lie that a common army will cost less, it all depends on how much you’re willing to waste. The world does not need more armies, nor do I need more taxes to waste on a military that would beused to impose foreign interests.
What wee need is to end the EU and return to be simply a single market.
José Bessa da Silva sorry, but you are in a very minority. Europe will be a country, that will stop any possibility of war in Europe and will make us stronger to defend ourselves against multinational corporations, trade unfairness, health and safety of our food and services, defends of environment…and a lot more.
And Europe will have an Army fit for this century Europeans needs and will stop dependency from USA and we will save lots of money that can go to services.
No, Im not in a minority and you will notice that when you see yourself with a war in your hands for trying to impose an imperialistic project on us.
It is also funny you claim the EU protect us from multinationals. That is the biggest lie of all times. The EU IS made andrun by multinationals. Multinationals use Brussels to enter in our countries.
The EU is a corrupt, vile institution and has no future. It already started to crumble. Only lunatics believe an antidemocratic institution has a future among the most educated nations on earth. You and the corrupt elite you protect are the real minority and will eventually suffer the same fate as Luis XVI if you do not change your ways.
José Bessa da Silva your very small country have benefited enormously from entering the EU. And as I said, your opinion is not shared by a majority of your country’s citizens. Your opinion is just an oddity amongst the opinion of the vast majority of your country.
Im sucha an oddity in fact, that Portugal current government is supported by anti-EU parliamentary forces. You know, your speeach about my nation sounds just like that about the UK. ” Oh no, they will never vot yes”, “The majority is in favour of the EU”, etc. Than, well, we all know how you eurofools fooled yourselves…
Gino Ronzitti it was Russia, not USA, the ones liberating Europe. USA came to pick up the rest and carry out the looting of anything valuable that was left in Europe, including nazis scientists and engineers . And we haven’t been able to get rid of them ever after. Time to go home, Yankee
Right, you trust more the propaganda made by EU in favour of the EU than electoral results and opinion pools made in the country you’re speaking about. Logic. It is very wise of you…hahaha
You are delusianal Morales. You should be institutionalized. Continentalists tend to suffer from dementia. If it wasn’t for us atlanticists this continent would be a mess of dictatorships, corruption, poverty and war.
If you have followed European Politics for the last decades, British influence in Europe have cost Europe trillions in loses and millions of employment. And have stopped the EU project from advancing. No, I don’t think Europe is going to miss Britain. We are going to miss Europe a lot more, until the older generation that voted Brexit is gone and we can return to Europe.
Po co taka kosztowna(!)armia, skoro i tak do pilnowania granic zewnętrznych UE wynajmuje się de facto żołdaków Erdogana czy libijskich bandytów, bo armie posiadaczy granic nie mogą … działać??? ;-)
Arnout Posthumus that’s the problem right there – inward thinking about Europe. How many EU countries contribute to war and oppression abroad with their weapons sales, for example?
We need to have a Europe that de-escalates conflicts and helps negotiates peace.
A EU army is a step towards a federation that’s the way to go a EU federation with a president or prime minister elected by all Europeans through an universal vote not like US where there is a stupid electoral college…that’s why we must integrate finances, army, education, foreign affairs, that’s why we need a working state for that we need a Federation…countries independent and a common transnational government for finances, education, labor, army, foreign affairs, telecommunications, transports between all the states…at this point the EU commission has limited powers and it’s not elected by us citizens
You can’t integrate army’s before taxes that’s a con. And plus there’s is no democracy without the votes of each country are equivalent otherwise the small will bend to the biggest. We don’t need a UE controlled by the northern countries and also warmongers like France once UK is out of the way. The romantic view doesn’t correspond to the reality.
Please do you know what you are saying if we had an EU army all the states would spend less on defence it would be better for all and there would be more money available for other areas, please go see for yourself before saying those things that’s not true a common army is cheaper than everyone having individual armies…
ΕU army under German control will just revive the days of Charlamene and NAZIs. They have already distroyed the economies of Europe and stolen the sovereignty of nations — not to be trusted.
Friend a EU army won’t be controlled by Germany the nuclear weapons are on France…Italy and Poland have great armies and the other countries too so I don’t think Germany in this EU army will be the dominant force specially because the big guns nukes and aircraft carrier are in France…but in terms of politics I myself defend an EU federation were all of us would vote on an EU president or Prime Minister, in that federation Germany wouldn’t have the ability to rule Europe why simple mathematics, Germans are 80 millions the EU as about 500 millions citizens so with a president elected by 500 millions a country with 80 millions can tell him what to do so we must go to a Federation with universal voting not to an US system with an electoral college, in Europe who has the most votes combined wins…!
Yes it’s time we take our security into our hands instead of letting the Americans defend us, that makes the US able to have an advantage when they go into their wars with the EU army Europe besides the capability of operating anywhere in the world we Europeans can tell the US to remove troops from EU soil, and don’t go into stupid wars like Iraq, so we must go ahead to this reality who says no doesn’t want a strong and independent EU those ppl should realize that without an EU army it’s the US that defend and rule EU in military terms we must change this reality… specially if we have a president like Trump on the US…
Yes! Russia is eventually coming for us, China seems to be more than willing to let shit go down. We need to be prepared for what’s coming. All the signs point to us needing to be ready for war.
Isn’t European countries today without army ? Or it’s a fantasy to make Eastern Europe and weak European country stronger and take power from a strong country like Germany ? , is the European Union ll last longer After the political and economical collapse ?
With a third world war ready to fight all we need is to arm the army to fight it!
And it’s one two three what are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me I don’t give a dam
Next stop is N. Korea…..
It aint no use to wonder why whoopee we’re all gonna die…
The arms lobby will make lots and lots money though…
No. We need peace. Enough with all the corporate war bullshit the yanks have been forcing down our throats post WWII.
Get your stupid heads out of your fat, smelly arses.
An army to protect what? Nothing that the EU wants to protect is being left unprotected – states have armies too, btw – therefore I am wondering. I am all for the EU states do more and more together, … but … an army??
There are other is issues more important like the fiscal law normalization in the EU or the abolishment of off-shores, the prices of medication and the free education at all levels.
A unified army should be under a democratic EU parliament, something that today doesn’t exist.
Peter Andrew Nolan, indeed and that isn’t secure with alliances with zionists, racists and those who would like to see us all living under apartheid regimes.
Assuming that, Israel and any other regime as such should be expelled from the International community.
I think there is one issue that is key to the existence of a unified europe, and that is east vs west, west being Germany, France, Scandinavia, Benelux, Italy, Spain and to a lesser extent greece, Austria and Czech Republic, these countries are Richer, more developed in all systems, militarily, in education, infrastructure, culture and most importantly, in these countries lie the historically famous cities of europe(not to offend warsaw and budapest, but you cant compare it to Madrid, Paris, Brussels or Berlin, hell even Vienna)… In the modern day this historical pride creates a somewhat superiority of their eastern counterparts, Poles, Slovakiers, Lithuaniers, Hungarians, Estonians and Latvians, Bulgarians, Rumanians, etc…. All together in one big boat: primitive, slavic, europe, stupid people from the US call them russians! Members of the european union!!! But part of the critique is true, the eastern bloc is less economically strong as a whole, exceptions notwhithstanding, less diverse, with less quality infrastructure and education, etc… This is viewed on the macro level in european geopolitical relations too, especially with germany and france taking an extremely heavy unilateral action (its not bad but we are 27 member states, without unanimous agreement it is not possible to utilize the full potential of the european u ion!) …….. But sometimes i feel people in the west forget one thing… To clarify, i am anti US, because for me the US is tottaly oposite to what the EU is, like the dark elfs to Ulthuan and the Old world in “total war warhammer” (story reference), dark because the US is very organized, extremely efficient, the strongest military system in the world, an economic powerhouse, a racial melting pot, a centre of culture, but here lies the KEY issue: that culture is not european, Macdonalds, Kim Kardashian and California Porn (European Porn is much more subtle), Arrogant military officials, colonial families who while enlightened separate themselves from humanity and Narcicistic politicians, it is the only country to have used nuclear weapons and the only western power to never have been truly assaulted in any sense in the past (11 september was an isolated incident, i mean even britain was bombed the shit out of in ww2) and it is a dangerous country for me, im not saying the US isnt good in anything, it could be a marvelous country but right now and for the next 20-30 years min, historically (and maybe more depending on geopolitical developments) it will be a dangerous country… For everyone including the EU as the the libyan and syrian crisis have shown… , while Nato alliance supposedly protects Europe, the US suffered 0 refugee problem, and sits at ease in its imperium in the american continent, (many states like colombia, chile, mexico, panama, etc.. Are practically American Vassal states And those that it doesnt like peru, argentina and brazil it weilds heavy heavy influence) …….. Hahahahahah i think many will wonder what has all this Anti US talk been to do with east europe vs west europe? Well because of the cold war west europe has been much more permeated by american influence than east europe, if you look at western european youth the US influence is palpable, in music, thought, etc and it is a pitty…. I want the Netherlands to be known for other things than Prostitutes (a common presence in all europe equally 200 years ago and while presence in am Amsterdam has become more open presence in all of europe is still common) and marihuana, to be known for Rembrant and Vermeer, The Channels and the River Amstel and IjJ, The River Rijn, Naarden Vesting, Den Haag and its international courts, etc etc……. And this mentality, of ancient european culture vs the modern pop culture largely imported from the US and also product of a Europe traumatized By WW2, the european union has ironicaly produced in west europe a lack of pride, a lack of direction, but this has been the opposite for East Europe, for a Pole or a Latvian it must be terrible gratifying to be able to say im a european, and travel without visa, and finally, my message to the world: i believe ironically from my experience the ancient european culture of honor knowledge, architecture and heritage of a christian and medieval past has been preserved in its purest form in eastern europe, maybe not perhaps in its most powerful, but in its most purest, nearly eastern europeans, good or bad, i have met, have had a strange combination of toughness, stubborness and honesty, and with all these people i had the impresion that while some may be unfriendly if you gain their trust they will be your friend for life… I think east europe has much to improve and needs much help and intervention from western europe, but i hope western europe also has insight, and learns from eastern european culture
Here i think lies the key for the EU as a Global superpower
And in this context i think a european defence force would be an excellent way for people from all over europe to get to know eachother
Good idea, especially for all people, who will the consider that the Army that schould protect them is based on a kind of european brotherhood. If they may die together, let us live together.
A European army allows to send some battalions of Ukrainians to squash a revolution for exemple in Portugal without fear of the army joining up with the local people while Portuguese troops could be used to oppress the Danish people for the same reason…
Old technique to control an empire already used by the Roman oligarchy some time ago… ;)
And who has then to control this army? The same lobbies that control the EU? Or even worst… Germany? Do you remember some history? And what about somebody is willing to leave the EU? Are they going to erase their homes to ground as Ukrainian government (a good friend to EU) did? The best way to assure the peace and freedom is every body having his own army. Things are OK right now. Thanks but no thanks.
The EU must have an army, to protect the EU citizens Also, the EU army should not be involved in a conflict outside of the EU borders and to stop selling weapons to the terrorist organizations like Saudi Arabia and Israel.
If an EU army should not be involved in conflicts outside the EU then their only use would be inside the EU & against its own disobedient citizens, presumable after you relabel them terrorists.
Ivan Burrows The EU has no enemies outside … Stop dreaming boy , life is not pink and also is not black and white. Life has different nuances of grey spotted with some different colors: on the national flags.
The national armies are enough provided they train together and have compatible weapons and tactics. When the outside borders are under threat then they will all act as one.
It’s the time states start debating EU exit strategies. Then alternative trade and cooperation agreements can be made. This EU is a complete disaster. Brexit is correct. It shouldn’t be like this but this is the EU tyrants have created for their one benefit.
Immediately after killing the military commander of Iran, Pompeo claimed that he had that discussed with the British Foreign Minister. It is crystal clear that the US is trying to convey a message that the UK is involved in such killing so that Iran might carry out terrorist attack again in Europe. The US has already successful in doing this with the 911. US European allies are closer to the Middle East thus cliser to retaliation. Europe is stupid to place its military command under the US NATO.
If things we done properly the army would have been in place for a long time, creating one now at a speedy pace will only lead to many deaths. All I wish for is that it won´t be needed in the near future. Due to 2 crazy individuals.
Any ‘EU army’ is a betrayal of NATO, but since EU countries are incapable of doing anything effective without U.S. support it’s all a mere expensive vanity project anyhow. Real EU security is totally dependent on a U.S. alliance, but EU leaders don’t like to admit that, and absurd Brussels Grand Panjandrums like Juncker (or Druncker as he is accurately dubbed) exist in a fantasy world, one which has to be maintained no matter what cost to the EU taxpayers or how damaging it is to real EU security.
What eu army,,,eu has more problem to fix..first they have to fix their front policy which they dont have any at this moment,and they have been a popet of united state of americs,they should fix that first,i believe…
we in europe canot have an army because we under occupation of the USA army, our highest enemy of all europeans. nobody want the usa army in europe and we disaprouve that.
France will never promise nuclear defence to countries that have issues at their boarder. It is too dangerous for the entire world. Think about balkans, cyprus, … if anything happens there, would it mean any european country would be able to launch a nuclear war? No thanks….
Nope. An increase in the centralisation of power is a perceived as a direct threat of sovereignty in many European members states. Furthermore, undermining the NATO alliance is very unwise.
Fortunately this idea of an EU army is almost practically impossible.
If an EU army means current national armies yes. It means duplicate the spending in armies, clearly no.
randomguy2017
EU army only if
a)NATO gets out of Europe
b)Europe turns to traditionalism without liberal or national conservative types involved. EU army respects all European countries.
Ernest Veser
It’s time for the EU “to create a common European army, which would show the world that there will by no means be war once more amongst EU nations”, as the EC President J.C. Juncker said. . Obviously, NATO will continue to demand our taxes, ‘defending’ us from the US enemies. WAR has always been a big and profitable BUSINESS for the USA, but not for the EU! Thus, ‘with every passing year, the idea of the joint European Army is becoming a more and more topical one’, https://medium.com/@nuslufrist/lansquenets-for-anglo-saxons-ef4f130f5991
We most urgently need a all professional EU Defense Force to crreat a Fortress EU against external attacks like the current Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the EU that has swamped Germany with more than 1 million illegal immigrants with a EU Defense Force designed to protect the EU Institution of Schengen that has removed all internal borders of the EU , providing freedom of movement to all EU Citizens within the European Union , while also swiftly putting a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation f Cyprus since 1974 , which is a British – Turkish alliance against the Americans in Cyprus that resulted in the Bush Administration making the American military invade Iraq in 2003 , during the ascension process of Cyprus into the European Union on May 1 2004, that resulted in the decade long American military quagmire in Iraq all due to the Turkish -British alliance against the Americans in Cyprus since 1950.
My country does not need to waste moneypaying for a useless army that may be used against ourselves. Even less to pay an army to fight someone else’s war.
If you want a war pay for ot yourself instead os trying to steal my taxes.
My country does not need to waste money paying for a useless army that may be used against ourselves. Even less to pay an army to fight someone else’s war.
If you want a war pay for it yourself instead os trying to steal my taxes.
José Bessa da Silva if we want to maintain a union we have to take into account the needs of each other !It’s good when your neighbor country is Spain but here in Greece we have major problem with Turky!Turkey is an unstable unpredictabole offensive country that you dont want them for neighbor believe me…
When you rely on others for your defense, you can never have your own independent foreign policy. So bring it!! If Europe ever really wants to be taken seriously as a main world player.
no the Point of common Military heands was already inserted with NATO´ s FIRTS HISTORICAL STEPS THE POINT NOW IS TO BRING FORWARD THE PROJECTS OF EU FOR INCLUDING ON HIS TERRITORY ALL FRAMES FROM THE PROJECT OF FULL STARS AND MEMBERS………. MILITARY IS ALREADY WORKING GOOD…… AND COMMON HEANDS WITH USA ON THIS FRAMES OF PROTECTION AND SAFETY IS A PLAN NOT TO BE CHANGED….. I THINK THE IDEA IS TO BRING FORWARD THE PORJECTS NOT TO STOP AND NOT TO GO OUT…… PATIENCE AND STRENGTHNESS LIKE BEFORE…… WE DO NOT NEED A TERROR ATACK AGAIN OR A DISPERCE OF UNITED FORCES FOR REMINDING US AGAIN HOW AND WHAT WE NEED FOR THE FULLFILMENTS OF COMONN PROJECTS ……… FOR ME EDUCATIONAL PROFILES ARE ALWAYES A BETTER SOLUTION FOR KEEPING UNDER CONTROLL WITH NO WAR……. ABOUT THE HISTORICAL NAMES OF WE KEEP OUR HENADS WITH BIGGER MARKETS THIS COMES FROM BIZNESS INTERESSES AND IT IS KNOWN FROM THE FIRSTE PROJECTS OF INSOURSING OR OUTSOURSING FROM AND FAR COUNTRIES TO KEEP MARKETS UNDER CONTROLL……. THAT IS BIZNESS PART. NOT UNDER MILITARY TENDENCY OR PURPOSE……. SORRY FOR THE BIG LETTERS…… I SSE THOSE NOT VERY WELL THE SMALL ONE
There is no point in doing so. The EU never recognized the official borders of Greece, when it comes down to suck up on Turkey. Also why would I trust my country’s safety in the hands of a European aoldier who doesn’t give a fuck and doesn’t share the love for that country as the indigenous population. How would I trust my safety to foreigners who have many times schemed according to their interests and have sold out people, borders and land.
Is it time for Europe not to cower in fear every time an American president puts NATO’s article V under question ?
José Ventura
This position serves only to divide the actual protection, this third way died with the murder of Olaf Palme in Sweden, this illusion of European army is an illusion and only serves to remove the real problem
The only threat to UE is internal one, coming from islamization. The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union and this is real threat. The German army has committed too many crimes on other nations in the past and it cannot be trusted.
what islamization? certainly not us in Europe and most certainly not you in Poland who are so Christian you don’t even live according to the christian faith!!!! so much for good Samaritan…..
We weren’t ready for you and apparently your mindset was not ready for Europe either….
So once uk leaves…who is going to pay extra to fill the £45 billion hole that uk currently spends on defense…in addition to the £12 billion net contribution.
Also I am confused as to who will order the deployment of these forces. Which of the many presidents will commit german..greek….spanish…danish etc service personel ?
David. Can’t believe the number of halfwits who are swallowing this “Russian threat” garbage. You hide under that blue and yellow flag if you like Ludwig, we Brits aren’t so easily scared, especially by non existent threats.
Ludwig needs an Army as his cowardly leaders refuse to change the box head constitution which doesn’t allow combat troops to be deployed out of nazi territory.
No we don’t even less with my taxes. Im not willing to pay to protect fireigner and even less to pay for an army ove which my ciuntry had no control over.
José Bessa da Silva A European Army will not defend foreigners but European citizens. And putting together all the European nations Defense budgets we are spending more on Defense than USA.
But we depend on USA for our Defense. That have to stop. We need Defense independence so we can have our own foreign policy and able to say not to USA’s warmongering that is clouding us a lot of damage and a lot of money that we can use on health services, housing, education…
amazing isnt it the eec set up as a trading organisation originally, turned into a control law making organisation without each countries people being consulted, now being turned into an undemocratic dictatorship led by the largest country germany, pushing for an eu army again without consultation or being voted by the people, the eec great as a trading organisation has now changed, the eu with its own flag and with no people consultation or vote, wake up your own democratic voice and ways and customs are being eroded by an arrogant group of dictators, the sooner each country leaves the eu and gets its own identity and democracy back the better
Magaly Morales obviously you don’t understand how civilian control of armed forces works. Legislatures may conduct hearings and review spending but they cannot “command” armed forces. A member of the executive does it be it the president like in France, the Prime Minister like in the UK and most European democracies or uniquely in Germany, the Minister of Defense. A war fighting organization cannot have 750 bosses who have no executive authority.
The plans for the EU Army usually include having the civilian commander be the President if the European Union aka the person selected to chair the European Council of 28 presidents and prime minister’s (27 after the Brits leave) That position is currently held by Donald Tusk who is elected by European governments who are in turn elected by national parliaments who are in turn elected by the people.
A European Army would be a fighting institution on par with the major militaries of the world like the US China and Russia and would be commanded by someone buried under three levels of indirectly elected government officials between himself and the people. The only thing that’s “obvious” is that you should do less assuming in this topic and far more actual research into the proposal as well as the inner workings of European institutions.
As long as there is no democratically elected executive of the European union I can’t overstate how bad of an idea that is. You re literally taking the monopoly on the lawful use of force out of the hands of people.
canot have EU army, if EU is dictatoship, and beside EU is under occupation of the USA army. need to end occupation of the USA army that keep occupation of europe.
An EU army without Great Britain will be a laughing stock. What are you going to do if the Russians respond to your warmongering? Beat them back with disapproving looks? :)
Was that an attempt to belittle the EU or to commend the UK? Neither Lockheed Martin nor Airbus are British companies. Guess where Germany’s new jets will be coming from.
lovely then all those young people who voted to remain and are anti brexit and love the eu so much can do their 3yrs eu national service stint. after all they wont mind putting their lives on hold for a few years will they?
I think we need it for yesterday but managing such an army will be a political nightmare. Lets hope they find a solution/protocol to deal with all the possible defence scenarios within an acceptable response time. Also I hope that then as a 2th or 3th step the European union also invests in social security, taxes, health, education, “president/senators” elected by people and a political clean up of “fat cows”, duplicates services and public debt” …
Just to be able to deceide ourselves, at home, what else? It’b be enough! There’s no union, if there was really one, each land wouldgo in the same way, but in EU, each land defends his own interests, nothing more! You don’t unite peoples under a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t vote for, so easy!
No: never. The €U Army would be a private army of the banksters like Mr Soros against Russia. Russia must be the first international partner of the Free European People.
Any kind of European unification against the will of the people will fail as it as failed every other time a bunch of lunatics with a flag and a plan to unite Europe have tried it. Nationalism rules, always has, always will. :)
Ivan Burrows my friend the benefits of EU are so many and so obvious that the further unification of Europe is inevitable, you will see it after brexit. European federation doesn’t mean abolish single nations but to have stronger nations in a much stronger union, which will be their shield against global turmoil, in fact EU guarantees the prosperity of its single nations.
Christos Saroglou Name one ‘benefit’ the EU has provided that is not enjoyed by peoples not in the EU ?, just one. Go ask the Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish etc how prosperous they feel and the only inevitability of the EU is it will be consigned to the dustbin of history alongside those other inglorious dogma’s of Nazism and Communism.
Some EU benefits; the ability to freely move, study, live, work and invest across the largest free market in the world and one of the most prosperous places on the planet. Increased international cooperation on climate change and environmental issues, EU countries backing other member states in UN votes (such as the EU’s current support for the UK over the Falklands). All done with agreement and support of our elected governments, so you can drop you’re hyperbolic comparisons which are basically just a lie.
Most of all, the longest peace period our continent has ever known. Never again European nations were more prosperous and peaceful, all those didn’t happened by luck
When you talk of oeace in europe…you have a very narrow view.. ask the geogians…the ukrainians.. those in crimea.. even imstill im bosnia how peace feels like!
Ivan Burrows After ww2 the major industrial nations of Europe seeing the devastation the war caused tried to find a way not to have war again in the continent after talks and talks reached the conclusion that were the rivalries of big European nations and the struggle for raw materials which caused the wars. To abolish these rivalries needed an organization which would ensure cooperation between them, so in 1956 the community of coal and steel was founded which gradually was transformed into today’s Eu. This is why we don’t have wars anymore because through cooperation and partnership (EU) Europeans learned to solve their problems and coexist. NATO had nothing to do with that nato is a military alliance against any threat but strictly military has nothing to do with economic collaboration and partnership. After all the community of nations between the two wars failed to ensure peace because lacked those two essential things cooperation and partnership.
Paul Vincent this is exactly what I am telling you, peace which is given for us into the EU, it’s not given for other nations of the continent who doesn’t have the luck to be member states of the EU. Peace is the major benefit of Eu.
No wars? Lybia, Sirya, Iraq, Mali, Afghanistan and i forget the others, call our soldiers back, they just make wars outside from EU, peace is something else!
To keep you EU citizens under control ? Of course, how else are the unelected European Politburo going to create their empire … Happy New Year From a Free Great Britain :)
Tim Nick Knight Re-read the title of the page comrade, its Debating ‘Europe’, not debating the EU. But thank you for showing your hatred of free speech, Juncker will be so proud of you.
Its true that the EU is not completely democratic yet, this is something that is going to be addressed in the coming years as we form and shape future Europe, but seriously, what makes you think that England is that free? A lot of the nationalist movements, not only in Britain, but other european countries, keep saying that EU is so oppressive, when the national governments have just the same amount of corruption and special interest groups in power. England has long been known in businesscircles as a place where shady deals can be made with huge sums of money in a huge international scale, owing to your empire days, a lot of rich people use tax-havens, your governmwnt rutinely lies to the poorer segment of society, to make them vote tory even when they are being screwed over by them, you actually still have an aristocracy for God’s sake! Even Denmark where I come from I not free of this corruption. And that is what EU is being created to combat, while creating a stronger united Europe for us all. Does it have problems? Yes! And if England had stayed in it, we could have made it better together 😐 And on another note, as soon as the Syrian civil war is under control and we help create jobs and stability in northern Africa, the fugitive/migrant waves will stop and all this discursive on foreigners and islamophobia will slowly cease and we can get back to focusing on Europe.
Mark Sjøberg You claim the goal of the EU will free you from corruption yet your glorious leader created one of the biggest tax heavens – Luxembourg, your unelected commissioners move directly into the institutions you claim to want freedom from after their term in office, your European Commission ignores National elections and every vote of the ‘people’ and now plans to ban open discussion, debate and referendums, you are ruled by the European constitution which was rejected by the people so was renamed the Lisbon treaty to bypass democracy, your institutions answers to no one but themselves and people like George Soros ‘owns’ your European Commission and its rubber stamping department the European Parliament. You are blind to the reality of your situation but others are not and the antidemocratic EU is bound to fail, we can only hope it does so without the usual bloodshed that followed the EU’s predecessors, Nazism and Communism.
As for us, we are British and will be just fine without your pointless EU but thank you for your concern.
António Espadaneira Run away ? We are not running away, we are taking back our democracy and leaving the prison that is the pointless EU & rejoining the free world. :)
António Espadaneira lol, if you say so comrade, if you say so. So tell me, What do you care anyway, you live in British Columbia !, did you run away ? lol
Dovno pora obzavestis svoei armiei v EU 500 milionov 4elovek ,, podkinim vam noveisie razrabotki lydi rabotajut nad etim ,,da i nado gotovit kosmi4eskie voiska ,, hrani vas bog
What if you had to chose between that and being at the mercy of small-scale dictators like milosevic, putin, or ghadaffi? Do you really hate your own country THAT much?
Max Berre I do not want to be a thief because she steals another one. NATO is the only real force and consists of independent, separated national armies, which are under their own flag. The national officer is responsible for immoral orders
I always said ‘yes’, but now I say ‘no’: I think EU has shown that they are not supporting freedom and democracy as much as they say; and they EU has shown that they can even allow a country to harm their citizens if this country is not ruled by Eurosceptics.
So, no, no EU army, and no, no more current EU: it should be reformulated to work for people, not for bankers, not for transnationals, and not for politician oligarchy
The only threat to UE is internal one, coming from islamization. The UE army would be dominated by Germany and could be used against member states of the union. EU army would disrupt the current balance of military power in the world, which would be unacceptable for current powers and would bring various consequences. It will be a failure similar to Lisbon Strategy.
Catalonia…………i think this proves ‘no’……. an EU army would be used more for internal supression than external agression. We do however need an Anti Corruption task force to combat the deceit and corruption of govts within the EU.
With Trump, NATO is useless, and how expensive is it compared to being overrun by Russia, China or ISIS because Europe’s defences are fractured in divided nation-states?
The Nato chief had issued a warning to the EU back in 2015 regarding the jihadists infiltrating alongside the refugees but the EU politicians chose to ignore the warning. Would an EU army make a difference? I doubt. They will be controlled by the same incompetents.
China wants business and the conflict with Russia is at least as much the fault of NATO as Russia, plus the politicians sponsored by the weapons industry.
Of course yes. With an european common army, we could defend our interests againt american and russian imperialism. With this army, Gadaffi would’nt fall in Lybia and we could protect Syria from ISIS
Yes and total unification of our economy, growth, debt, politics and let’s all speak the same language and believe in the same Divine God whatever he or she is…
No, an army with Merkel as commander in chief doesn’t sound like a good plan. We probably have to attack Russia and Israel, which are our allies. EU hates christians and jews.
A mixed EU Army is the idea of Satan. The idea of the EU Army shows that the EU wants to be a tyranny. NATO is more real force and proven internationally
1. In the 500-year Lithuanian-Polish Union there were separate armies and commanders, even.
2. Service under a foreign banner is against the Polish constitution and is punished (in time of peace) by a three-year prison sentence.
3. The Polish army has different traditions than all European armies.
– In Poland there were strict military codes (formally written down in the 16th century). Plunder of civilians and rapes on women were punished by death (and the worst punishment: loss of honor)
– The Polish army has never used landmines
– A Polish soldier always had the right to refuse to carry out an immoral order
Wow, so much isolationist, it is funny coming from a pole considering that in both world wars the Polish soldiers which I don’t mean to disrespect were under foreign officers for multiple reasons. If the poles think they are that superior to other Europeans then they are better off alone I guess
Polish soldiers fought on all fronts in Europe.
After losing the campaign in September 1939, Poles fought under the commander-in-chief of other countries (this is true).
But there is a fundamental difference !!!
The Polish Army was an independent armed force and organization, and it was the Polish Army:
– the banner was Polish
– the regulations were Polish
– former Polish officers
– The Polish Army was subordinate to the Polish government and under Polish law
And customs and morals were Poland. The Polish army was subordinate to the Polish government !!!
1. What is the opposition of soldiers to an immoral order when there are other soldiers?
2. Army without a banner, symbols on the cap and tradition is a band, not an army (like russians army in Crimea in 2014)
3. I know that Armies of other countries have very many crimes and their traditions are different (eg German). We remember what the international (French, Dutch and Belgian and Ukrainians) Vaffen SS troops were doing under German’s command
P.S. The EU army is scandalous, it is the goal of laughter and very deep indignation. !!! Point 1 disqualifies the EU army in this form !!! In 1830, the Polish Army rebelled when the Russians were to suppress the revolution in the Netherlands (the Polish Army was to be a “spear.” Polish 30-thousandth Army caused the November Uprising and saved the Dutch and Belgians revolution (and other German countries too) and a very grim and tragic fate. Frankfurt has the Polish emblem and the Polish flag. Do you think that this is the case?
The EU ( Germany and France) proposes something worse than the Russian tzar in the 19th century
I’m also not pro an EU army but saying NATO is a more real and proven force made me chuckle a bit… NATO really ?!?!??! The “Defensive” Alliance that has been leading wars on US request for the past 20 years and destroyed the middle east leading to a massive refugee crisis has absolutely no credibility!
RadThink Thank The Middle East and Africa were destroyed 200 years ago.
In 1913, there was a conference in Berlin, which divided Africa into colonies dependent on 7 European countries : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1934233520236434&set=a.1750979405228514.1073741826.100009494141635&type=3&theater
Today Africa is being exploited. Another issue is the extraction of tantalum for the production of capacitors for electronics.
Conflicts have been deliberately created in Africa for a long time. But this is not a reason to accept people without documents who risk to live beyond the Sahara
The EU was born out of WW2 and peace has bonded our nations together, Large and small nations former enemies and colonies now respecting each other as equals which has given Europe peace and strong living conditions. We dont need a unified army as we don’t need or want war no country would be crazy enough to attempt to invade or launch an attack on EU territory
Commercial market bands EU together along with colonizing and sucking the life out of eastern european member countries…srry mate thats the truth..the west has always lived off its “colonies”…
Are you really all so brain washed and willing sacrifice your families for the well being of savages, or this is just an NGO site with totally brainless payed trolls ? How come, none of you make any sense with his statement ?
The Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the EU from Turkey have shown everyone the dire need for establishment of a EU Defense Force.
why not just make a military alliance like nato but only for member states of the EU? every member has to spend a certain percentage of their GDP on defence etc etc
Uncle Sam, like EU, who else? He’s always on the front… Proved by unclassified documents, look better at the EU’s origins, it was never a wish from peoples! Another thing, NATO has more reasons to exist since Warsaw’s Pact was broken.
then make a treaty in which if of one part of the EU is unprovokedly attacked all the other members have to come to its assistance each country will command its own army but it will be obliged to defend the member state being attacked
Eu was built to avoid the catastrophy of world wars and the imbalabce of a nation with the outmost economical power to destroy the rest. I would rather spend money on developing an education promoting humanitarian values to schools and businesses.
No. We are a neutral country, always will be. I’d say we’d turn guns on our own government if they allowed that to happen, and rightly so. Nobody should be sent to die.
Of course not! An extra tool in the hands of EU political elites (think Merkel and Macron who control the decisions of Brussels) to prevent dissenting nations from breaking off.
Macron who controls the decisions of Brussels? LOOOL, can i laugh? He is not even able to ban a herbicide in France, what do you want him to control EU? Seriously…
Vasco Almeida 1) one more piece to unite all Countries, 2) cost reduction 3) common weapon systems 3a) whose design cost is shared on more subjects and 3b) production investments (ships, tanks, airplanes) can benefit them all in term of high skilled jobs request 4) one EU army whose capability is not to be challanged that easy 5) military research always drops in civil technology enhancements 6) less dependance on US aerospace technology, EU has all the capabilities to build better airplanes at a lower cost, Airbus proves it every day.
drawbacks: 1) a huge army in the hands of a handful of non elected bureaucrats, 2)a huge detriment to national sovereign and domestic home policies, 3)..possible conflict with Russia, something that the EU elites and the military complex desires, but not Europe’s peoples , 4)and above all….huge power to the same Morons who are destroying Europe and would like to stablish a police state., 5) a muppet in the hands of NATO….in other words, the US and its antirussian mania.
Most of eu members are already in nato so why the fffkkk would you want to disband every national army and leave it to be controlled from brusselles??? Only a fool would do that…every country should have its own fkng army since NATO is already our big brother like they say
César Garcia obviouly ideology in your head Fides evidences. Where do you see Europe following US foreign policy these last years? see what happened with the recognition of Gerusalem as capital of Israel. Your view is completely wrong .
That’s a big issue which transends the casual fb comment section. Armies and democracy do not cope well. For such an installment to work, EU should offically become a proper federation. With central government, federal constitution and law. Like the US. Although considering this is europe after all, and the fact that the only successful political system of its kind is the USA thus far, i would say that such a thing would probably end in disaster. Personally i am very fond of the idea of creating a federal state with its own armed forces. It would solve a lot of issues, and we would no longer need to rely on NATO or anyone else.
Haha..no, usa is not the successful system..and i only have to say *american civil war* to state this fact :))) thats how succesful it was… The eu army will be just another instrument to implement their will on the smaller eu member *colonies* from the east…
By successful i meant it didnt result in the disbandment of the federation. The civil war was merely a result of Lincoln’s policies. Or so i have been told, it was not the political system itself at fault. Other countries that tried to imitate this system failed though.
What colonies, omg… the baltics would love an eu army to keep them safe from russia and bulgaria and romania are among the most eu friendly countries. The east needs a strong eu and knows it very well. Hungary being an exception.
Army? For that you would have to cut expenses on bureacracy (but if you wish to make Europe a prey for chineses firms). But your moroncracy is based on the gold you distribute for imbeciles responsible for our national policies, to keep them docile towards the interests of the corporations that bribe the idiots on Brussels, and the cooperation of degenerates. This fact becomes quite clear when we compare our “western european politicians” to old pictures of great statesmen from the last two centuries or paintings and statues from older statemen. Even a moron will notice that the corporate boys that were promoted in Western Europe belong to what would become white trash in case the mechanisms of social mobility were working. What we have is clearly a cristalized system that is becoming more and more complex and will colapse in the first serious crisis. We would need to search for our best blood, people the same quality of a Putin or a Lavrov, to save Western Europe, and less ambicious plans. Military safety for Europe? That would be a reality if we did not relly for such a long time on the guarantees offered by americans and by the sabotage against national armies by the very same people that now propose a european army as solution. And, by the way, your true intention is a police force to be used against european citizens that oppose your idiocy.
Its most definitely time to have a EU Defense Force , upgrading , expanding and transforming the current European Security and Defense Policy unit of the EU through the PESCO mechanisms to create a all professional EU Defense Force , creating a fortress European Union , to guard against external attacks like the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union , designed by Turkish officials too undermine and destroy the institutions of the European Union beginning with the European Institution of Schengen, by swamping the European Union will more than a million illegal immigrants .
Only if it came with federalization, which will never happen because the Western “buddies” don’t want to share their resources with Eastern Europe or even the South.
This would be a major breakthrough for the EU and making it really emancipated from the US dominated NATO.
A big benefit for the Regions where tensions are possible.
No Brussels is controlled by Eurocrats who are unelected and answer to no one,give them an armed force its a dangerous combination especially with more Right Wing thinking in Europe,anyone remember recent history?
Not looking for an aurgement,to rectify your comment i am SCOTTISH living in a EU country so will effect me just to be clear,i never got personal just tried to remind people of the recent history of europe and if any right wing power gets control of a large armed forces the saying “WE WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS” may be repeated.
I personally do not want to be forced to leave my family Because “i am Brit!!!” living in a EU country or forced to have a work visa after nearly 20 years, who knows even put in a camp like many German anti National Party followers before WW2 and many millions after!!just because of a right wing agenda that is becoming more popular with certain world leaders and parties these are odd times now !!!
Bryan Dow, wow mate, relax, get a beer, or better scotch but there were elections recently everywhere, people were explicit that reforms are required, not violence. We are europeans, right wing agenda has no ground since decades but still we need defence in order to deal with the challenges. Power misuse doesn’t have color, nation or political orientation.
No, we are a neutral country. We send peacekeeping forces through the UN. Fuck off with your EU Army. Save the warmongering for America and Russia. The last thing we need is the Germans trying to control shit again. The EU will disband if it continues to try and control the smaller member states.
half of the European countries armies are a joke and some of them don’t even pay their NATO fee (hint Germany)!all the weight will fall to France Italy and Greece!
As an Estonian i say no. It will be the last step to a european federation meaning a central government and the independece (that we have fought for hundreds of years for) for our countries will be lost. “Who trades little bit of freedom for security deserves neither and shall lose both” my homeland will remain free as says our constitution and thus it shall be.
Russia can be deterrd with NATO. But think about it, we are going to give up our independent state to join a federation…..IN FEAR OF ANOTHER FEDERATION TAKING OVER, DENYING OUR INDEPENDENCE AND JOIN THE FEDERATION. So it basicly freedom lost. Id rather take my chances with fighting them off either than willingly being somones slave.
Ok. This is not the best place to be having this conversation the simplicity of a yes/no answer here is not a contribution. The EU is not the USA we are not a federal organisation of counties we are an economic union. Counties like Ireland have held a netural stance on world affairs since there foundation which is what makes them such great peacekeepers. PESCO endangers the ability of counties to take a netural position when helping in the stabilization of war-torn areas.
Ok well here’s my argument agree with it or not but as a European and as an Irishman I feel like European countries have too much history between them to have a functional federation yet. Without a functioning federation I don’t think something like European defence is a realistic idea as like everything when “there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians” (pardon the expression) there won’t be enough stability to properly control this kind of force effectively. It really is a matter of education and how we teach European history. Every country teaches its own history in the context of its own people. If we were to change the way we think about our neighbors in the context of “the old enemy” (for example: Ireland and England or Spain and France) then we have to look at how people are taught this.
Again this is just my opinion on this and I would stress I am only a student of international relations by no means and authority.
It is time to repair the erors of NATO. To put a blue line between Rusia and UK USA. Is time for selfdefence but only if Europe finds its way to christianty, democracy, true respect to nations, world peace, respect for poorer non EU countries. European Army can be only like European policymakers.
Christian Ferné Stay with Putin then, with Juncker, Mogherini, Merkel … those who compromised the EU project through their left-wing policies: islamist migration, socialism, communist compulsory quotas, progressivism, stupid and nazi political correctness etc.
Success.
No we dont want nato ocupation,agression and wars in Europe.If u want it-go to live in Usa.Europe is not Usa colony and slave.Theres nothing to protect here from Russia but from people like u who sell Europe snd europeans to Washington olygarchs and their warmongers.
My country was under russian or ottoman occupation for more than 500 years.
My grandfathers have been sent to extermination camps during communist regime, brought by russians invaders.
My grandnfathers were not part of any political party, but under communist logic at least 10% of population has to be exterminated – the best teachers, farmers, engineers…etc…the elite of the occupied country…so that country will never strike back against communism.
Thier generations have waited America for salvation. This hope have been passed from one generation to another.
Here they are, our ally, the americans.
It was the same in each country in East Europe.
Ask Georgia or Ukraine about last russian invasions and anexations…
You know nothing about these nigtmare stories.
But here, in East Europe countries, the reality is tough.
What can I say? If this is what you want, get out of NATO, and keep bringing rapefugees. Have a nice islamization.
My country was under russian or ottoman occupation for almost 500 years.
My grandfathers have been sent to extermination camps during communist regime, brought by russians invaders.
My grandnfathers were not part of any political party, but under communist logic at least 10% of population has to be exterminated – the best teachers, farmers, engineers…etc…the elite of the occupied country…so that country will never strike back against communism.
Their generations have waited America for salvation. This hope have been passed from one generation to another.
Here they are, our ally, the americans.
It was the same in each country in East Europe.
Ask Georgia or Ukraine about last russian invasions and anexations…
You know nothing about these nigtmare stories.
But here, in East Europe countries, the reality is tough.
And so far Europe started the wars and US brought the peace (ww1 and ww2).
And while East Europe was under russian oppresion during Cold War, russians which were killing the elites in East Europe, West Europe was defended by US-NATO and was benefiting of Marshall Plan.
But…what can I say? If this is what you want, get out of NATO, and keep bringing rapefugees. Have a nice islamization.
I don’t get, who brainwashed you that hard. You want to tell me that 500 mln europeans with the biggest GDP in the world should be affright of 150 mln russians, or some islamic barbarians? US are building a wall on their mexican border, they won’t be around if shit go wrong and rapefugees were brought after years long of US initiated war campaign, so believing that the EU and US interests can coexist and overlap forever is so naive and hippocratic that it resembles a Stockholm Syndrome.
Thank you for your concern but so far it has proven to be the best way of dealing with all the Marxists. One would have imagined that a hundred years of death, famine and poverty would have done the trick. Until then, bleach it is.
Nope. The last thing Europe needs, is to give non-elected EU bureaucrats control over an army. Furthermore, the EU should always be on good terms with the US and with Nato. European armies, yes. A EU army, hell no.
I think a common Army is utopic since EU is not a single state in order to be able to control a common Army.
Europe needs something else, a common patrol of the external borders of EU, perhaps a military pact and alliance among the European members and a Common Military Centre which will organize military drills on different war scenarios in order the European Armies to learn to work together and be able to cooperate if a member-state is under attack.
Only after Nato is gone, Washington olygarchs influence on Eu is gone and total Eu reorganization with new people.Otherwise Eu army will be the back door for Usa oligarchs as Nato is now.
and what do you need it for is it for murdering humans in other countrys as you already do for the corporations to majke a profit or is it to murder the youth in the wars you will send them to as you did in the last 2 world wars in europe
We dont need troops, stop the agenda of illuminatti people, study, your own dont exist thretas, the terrrosit are mecenaries hire by goverment, who need govermente if you are secure?
Bad timing. EU’s reputation has never been lower since its inception. If it survives, then we can talk about a collaborative effort on the arms way. But the EU is on the verge of being disbanded by popular demand. People are usually too short-sighted and can no longer see the good things that came out of a EU (nor do they remember the bad things of a disbanded fiefdom-like Europe), so they’re now crying foul and ask for the end of the EU. I tell you something, and you can mark my words on this: if the EU falls (and it may very well fall, for the looks of it), soon enough a replacement will emerge again, because people will understand the betterment brought to everyday life by an united Europe. A divided Europe will never amount to much. “I shall divide and conquer” was already a certain absolutist’s motto. Only in unification do we stand a chance of being solid, respected and to actually matter. One of the mistakes of this current EU was that it tried to grow too much over too little time. These things take time. The next iteration of a European Union must take more time to achieve what it wants. Europe was always sort of problematic when it came to see things under the same scope. But, as said before, unity is the only way. A divided, scrambling and quarrelsome Europe is what our rivals (themselves unions, like the USA, Russia or China) want to see. They’re the ones that bask in delight with Brexit and the current disdain that Europeans themselves have towards the EU. Think about it.
It is time to move ahead and unite Europe. Europe must be one nation one army the strongest ever made in the world. And when no wars will exist ever in the European continent we will grow stronger in all sections UNITE EUROPE!!
Europe has learned from her mistakes we will never do the same mistakes people did one centure ago back then had hatred in their hearts and a very good example actually the best example is germany and France once huge enemies now they have even greater relations than England and France had once. Europe is evolving and growing accept the fact the great European states are coming in the few 5-10 years from now.
[Echo positive] Absolutely NO. First you have to explain what’s wrong in NATO partnership.
Dafnomilis Nikos
We must make a choice.There is not a middle way , we even proceed with more integration (financially,politically and militarily) to a federal union or we disband eu
I’m strongly support the first one
Depends if it will be a defensive or offensive arrangement. To defend themselves from Russia? No problem. To intervene in Africa and the middle East? Then that leads Europe down a very dark road.
A European Army is a MUST, since all the member states face the same threats (uncontrolled mass immigration, Jihadism, strong military regional powers etc).
Also, Europe is an Economic giant but with a weak voice in the World since none respects your opinion if doesn’t afraid of your guns. For example, if a European Navy patrol in East Mediterranean and the Aegean Sea, Turkey could not blackmail Europe using the immigrant/refugee flows as a political tool.
The only threat ‘all’ 27 member States face is from Brussels and it’s pro EU fanatics.
Flaviu Amarandei
Se should not forget the Russian threat. It’ s not relevant for the Western countries, but is a real headache for their Eastern partners, considering them partners.
I think the second world war ended 72 years ago. The victors, now in decline, try to keep the memory alive, but the present and the future demands new thinking. Europe should be united to remain european.
Gustav You mean ‘united’ in the sense of one nation ruling the others as Germany did in 1944 and Germany does now ? You really have learnt nothing from your history.
It was Nationalism that stopped Germany from uniting Europe under one flag then & it will be Nationalism that stops Germany ruling Continental Europe now.
Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers I’m sure there is more we agree than disagree on, the disagreements just happen to be fundamental to the survival of Western civilisation. :)
I’m not sure more division will mean more diversity. We should stand united in some ways, in order to continue being diverse in other. 27 different armies doesn’t contribute to Europes greatness, it’s a historic political relic.
Brussels will need it’s army to protect it’s empire from the 27 Nation States in the EU. It will be interesting to see them send German troops into Poland to keep the Poles under control.
Nikolas Spanoudakis
Yes we need a european army if we want EU to have a significant impact in its neighbourhood and not only. However an EU army implies that there is a political authority/government which gives order to it and this is clearly not the case in theEU nowadays…
Yeah, right, because we had an army of Europeans and for Europeans under the democratic control of European countries when for the last time? I don’t know what history they taught you in school… :D
Ha Enn Yeah, no worries about my education :D I’ve learnt enough to know that there’s no such country like Europe, that there has never been solidarity among European countries – Poland has been left alone and betrayed by West European countries too many times, not to mention our experience of World War II and German invasion on Poland – the only country whose government did not collaborate with German Nazis. I hope you know what happened in Yalta Conference and what devastating consequences it brought for Poland for so many years under Soviet regime. Poland has always had to fight for its independence and if you knew history, you’d be more careful about this issue…. What’s more, in EU there’s the Germany-France hegemony and there’s no real democracy in EU. Being economically strong, Germany puts its own business ahead of other EU countries’ business.
Of course and a good plan for training different bodies to different states together with a good plan for which country produces which weapons. This will help reduce overlapping and avoid too many forces at one state.
No, we should maintain 27 individual armies with their individual administrations, even though we share essentially the same geopolitical interests and threats. Who would have oversight over such a European army? The European Parliament? The European Commission? Everybody knows that they have not a single shred of democratic legitimacy and are utterly corrupt. Moreover, we should under no circumstances cooperate with regard to procurement and we should stop integrating the coordination of our national defences. Considering Trump’s stalwart commitment to NATO and his pacifist attitude, creating a parallel military alliance dedicated to the security interests of Europeans is completely superfluous.
Doesn’t make sense? Neither do nationalists.
But for many of the Eu, is moving far enough.
As the project is to build an EU army such as the U. S. army ; it means : – the same tank , same weapons , and same uniforms as well. Obviously I over disagree , that’s because I don’t dink is wise to sell our soldiers in far off places to spoil their lives in the Middle East or Africa.
We are paying our mistakes in Africa about our slavery delivered to them – do you really think we will welcome back in Africa?.
Let’s that UN goes.
Ivan Burrow – there was not talk about the Gheddafi death , in which the ex-PM Cameron got involved too and , with the Berlusconis’ accomplishment let the fake immigrants to get into the EU? ; not even about Biaffra and Camerum either ? .
What did you expected about?, not sure the Africans care anymore about an European army around.
Try to tell it to them? .
[…] , both Polish and Hungarian ( may you allows up to 6 East countries ) ; are paying their price for delivered their slavery to Africa: – 0 , says 0 terrorist attacks.
Who ‘d envy them?.
@Ivan
an army does not mean a war nor even conflict. This is imo not a question for if we need or do not need an army. But more a question of how will we use that army.
ps the conflics already exist and thats also why we need an european army.
Marco Nobody but a handful of fanatics want a United states of Europe, try forcing it onto people and you will have another bloody European world war.
Erik
Ivan –
No, if we stick together, respect our differences and share the same values, there will be no bloody war. You’re the one who wants a Europe before WW1 and we all know were this ends.
It’s time humanity started acting as civilised and diplomatic as we think we are, and resolve conflict with a compromise fair to all before it deteriorates irrevocably into war (i.e. organised mass murder.)
Competition for resources never need reach the point of conflict, as long as we maintain healthy population levels and don’t hoard or take what isn’t ours out of greed.
Conflicts of ideology, of nationality and ethnicity are all so illogical and unnecessary because we should be united under the banner of a single race, a single global identity, and a single acknowledgement of universal truths fundamental to us all.
rui ferreira
invest in green energy and good food organic and bio not in war … my answer is NO. tks
Erik more efficient? Hmmm imagine been attacked from Turkey for example and having to wait until 28 Parliaments come to a decision to react or not..
Erik
Waiting for the 28 is ridiculous and the veto system needs to change for sure. The EU how it is today is far from perfect, but thats no reason to trow it all away. We have to work to make it more efficient to counter the problems of tomorrow. And thats the same for an EU defense. There is no alternative.
rui ferreira
IF YOU STOP THE IMMIGRATION , WE DONT NEED ANY ARMY … SIMPLES AS THAT.
No way it won’t work
Just think about it a simple immigration crisis and no one wanted to share the burden with the countries of the south
What will happen in case of a real war? Who will come to risk his neck for what he / she consider an alien world?
Just be realistic we can have if we like to some task forces here or there but a full army
It’s a foolish idea
Yes, in fact they already work together, this week a joint exercise was held in Portugal, the air force of the various European countries.
And last week was the army and mechanized force.
Why not ? How about to stop the rise of yet another dangerous ideology ? Twice before lunatics with a plan to unite Europe under one flag have decimated Europe so why would you do it again ?
Erik You have it the wrong way round comrade, we are leaving the insular EU and rejoining the free ‘world’. We are the first …. but we will not be the last. :)
It’s not going to happen, Germany has given up, Italy is on the way out and with Euroscepticism on the rise across the block Brussels will be lucky if it can pass any policies after 26 May 2019 never mind a pointless EU army .
When killing defenceless children becomes something to celebrate maybe Western society deserves to be consigned to the history books. A very sad day for humanity.
May God preserve the butcherer Children and dam the murders.
Flaviu Amarandei
For now I trust more NATO than a EU army way too friendly to Russia. Europa is too keen to forget the terror acts comited by NKVD and it’s descendents.
Rob
No – not until the EU is accountable by and for the European peoples. Have we not learned anything from our history? Until then the member states need to step up and ensure they are paying their way into NATO as subsidised by the US, UK and France.
Akpans
Its irrelevant because NATO is competent of defending its members.
No because it will give brussels an actual military force to work and suppress anyone who disagrees with them as well as it adds a link to NATOs response time as the EUarmy first sees that it is incapleble of doing anything and then after several meetings and plans THEN tells NATO to step in and then nato needs time to plan ect. Adding another link to an already long process is quite frankly retarded. 60 hours it takes for russia to invade the baltic, time is of the essence.
Just in case people are unaware of the facts missing from this misleading story the ‘European defence intervention group’ has nothing to do with Brussels, the EU or any part of EU legislation.. It is a purely an agreement between Sovereign Nation States..
First should get permission from the NATO. North Atlantic Alliance, is an intergovernmental military alliance between 29 North American and European countries. The alliance is based on the North Atlantic Treaty that was signed on 4 April 1949.The European Union (EU) signed a comprehensive package of arrangements with NATO under the Berlin Plus agreement on 16 December 2002. With this agreement, the EU was given the possibility to use NATO assets in case it wanted to act independently in an international crisis, on the condition that NATO itself did not want to act—the so-called “right of first refusal”
David
Yes.
paul
I have no interest in spending money or wasting my life for “europe”. I’ll have to pass on that.
While that is true, I feel as though the “is it time for an army” question surfaces at least once a month.
Personally, I’m in favor, but I don’t think anything that has happened in the past month is going to convince either the previous supporters or the previous skeptics to change their stance
In Republica Moldova, Presedintele RM, Presedintele Parlamentului RM, Prim Ministrul al RM, sunt angajati de catre NOI – Poporul RM, adica de catre Statul RM, in conditiile articolului 49 a Codului Muncii al RM, in calitate de “MUNCITORI NECALIFICATI!” – CE PARERE AVETI???
In Moldova, president rm, President of the rm parliament, Prime Minister of rm, are employed by us – the people of rm, i.e. by the state of rm, under article 49 of the rm labour code, as ” workers workers!” – what do you think???
Leonardo Monteiro If you believe what you say why not just use NATO as 29 strong countries will always be cheaper and stronger than 27 weak countries ?
I’d go for a single NATO army. But that would have other complications – the USA would never go for it, and there are no political structures in NATO to support that.
Leonardo So how would it be cheaper if the USA and the UK are not involved in the protection of the EU ?. Most EU countries cannot afford what they are paying now so where is the money going to come from & what will you do with the like’s of Ireland who would refuse to join your EU army, invade them & force them to except it ?
EU countries (Exc.UK) make up for the 2nd biggest defense budget in the world. Hardly “not being able to afford” anything. But much of the money is wasted, either in duplicated structures, or duplication of Weapon systems (Ex. US has 1 MBT, EU has 5). Regarding countries not wanting to join – I am sure you have seen the latest progress on PESCO, and its all voluntary.
Leonardo Where on earth do you get the idea 2nd biggest defence budget in the world from ? The UK, France & Germany make up 60% of the budget on their own so without the UK who is going to make up that shortfall ? Italy, Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania & Poland ?
You are living in a dream world comrade and the reality is Putin would be sipping Vodka in Brussels within a week against a joke EU army & the National governments know it which is why they will appease Trump and start paying their 2% promise to NATO.
09/13/2018Rose Gottemoeller, Deputy NATO Secretary General, has responded to this comment.
09/13/2018Amanda Sloat, Robert Bosch senior fellow at the Brookings Institution’s Center on the United States and Europe, has responded to this comment.
France, Germany and Italy spend alone 100 Billion – the remaining EU members other 100 Billion, there are plenty of source for this (Here, for example https://www.sipri.org/databases/milex)
Well, if Putin could be sipping vodka in Brussels against a proper EU army, then he could be sipping vodka right now. So more the reason to do something. Its not like we can count on the US. Or the UK.
Putin owns Merkel though the Nord Stream gas lines so who says he isn’t ?
The USA, UK and the rest of the free world saved you twice before, why the hell would we send our people to do it again ?
The definition of Stupidity is repeating the same actions and expecting a different result and you want to again attempt to unite all Europe under Ein Volk – Ein Reich – Ein Fuhrer, sounds pretty stupid to me.
a) Sure, Putin owns Merkel, Trump, and my cat. b) Actually you didnt save “my” people. You did threaten us with war once, though. c) You really need to get over your German obsession.
lol British racist rant? If its b), its history. Google 1890 Ultimatum. If its C), well, you snowflake, that was aimed specifically at you, not the British.
No! Anyway Europe was save two times by Russia and US Armies. Than Europe was developed under the Cold War when The Soviets Republic and US spended more for nuclear weapons.
TODAY for what we need EU Army? We intend to have wars with Russia, or US, or Both :) If will be Both, we will loosse the War ?!?!
BETTER is to stop wars and to reduce money for Armies, also Russia, also US.
It’s not for the purpose of fighting with anyone, just for the purpose of stopping others with their own armies from bullying the EU into doing things against our own economic interests. Turkey, Russia, USA, China… If we don’t have our own army, others will tell us who to do business with and how much to pay for security. 4% sounds good to you?
George Titkov Why we need army for economical interest, finally this means wars, like WW1 and WW2.
Why Turkey? It’s a NATO’s member.
Finnaly we may be the first european generation without War, except the stupidy from Iugoslavia (I don’t know in english).
First Europe must resolve the diference between life standard of the EU members ?!?! Second I don’t believe in the futute of EU without UK and Russia.
Third it’s obvious that the big enemy of NATO could be only Russia in Europe.
Could be also China, but i believe that they have a big problem to resolve their internal standard of life for each chinease people, yet.
Of course that 4% is stupid, also US spendings for Armies, three Times more than all the rest of countries in the globe. Or here it seems to be more private interest of this industry than the interest of simple people from each country ?!?!
Stephen We pay for our defense as much as China and more than Russia, we even let you use our fields for your interests. Leave and never come back unless of couse someone decent returns to the white House.
I would say not completelly and there is a shared militairy component on a European level
While we are at it, exceptions for certain nations.
Belgium for example doesn’t need a mandatory amount of aircrafts
jthk
EU is not a regional organizations, instead it has assumed some functions of a sovereign state of all member states such as a unified Euro currency, without national boundary, unified citizenship…. Collective security of EU requires an EU army.
Franz M
Yes. The EU needs to be abe to defend itself and work together in UNO missions more efficiantly. There is however the issue of countries that are not members of NATO liek Austria or Sweden. Another question would be if a European army would replace existing militaries (What would be the only effficiant model, Having 27 armies plus an EU army would not increase efficiancy (Only if every army would purchase the same equipment.)) Finally, should an EU-army be able to form aliiences (NATO) and if so, support e.g. the US in an offensive conflict (Irak, Afghanistan) !? I would say denfensive alliance yes, offenive no.
A “European army” seems absurd at this point and in the near future, no nation will accept that loss of sovereignty. But this trumpian extravaganza at the NATO summit should be a powerful impulse towards a stronger European military and defense union and less dependency and subservience towards the US, a presidency of dunces shouldn’t be calling the shots or leading anything. Donald might be a mere accident, but Europeans should start to consider long term alternatives to this Atlantic alliance.
go for it remember well that u sat on your very fat burger filled asses whilst the uk and Canada FORUGHTt the forces of evil off usa cowards LETS GET YOU KICKED OUT OF ALL CONVENTIAL INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATIONS OH YEAH ……….
OH NO THE REVERSE IS SO TRUE THERE ARE THOSE WHO ACT IN THE FACE OF IMMEDIATE THREATS AND THEN THERE ARE COWARDS AND VASCILLITIORS SHUSH CANT BE YOUR HOME COUNTRY LOL………….
Não há a minima das dúvidas, deve se constituir imediatamente um exército dentro da UE, não podemos toda a vida depender da seguranca do EUA, que como sabemos é o que é, neste momento um lacaio de Putin. A UE é muito mais que a NATO
There is no doubt about it, it must immediately be an army within the EU, we cannot all life depend on the security of the USA, which as we know is what is now a PUTIN LACKEY. The EU is much more than NATO
You can’t trust the Germans. You play Justin Bieber. They start marching …
jthk
Economic security requires military hard power to sustain. For example now the US has ordered the whole world not to buy Iran oil. If buying Iran oil serves EU interest, if EU has no army, it cannot protect its sea route. The security concern of EU and the US are actually going at different direction, particularly in this Trump administration, the US has been threatening EU and superimposing trade war and values on EU,it is only with an independent army, EU can be secure its own interest independently.
Bledi Rredhi
The EU countrys needs a bigger Military and Intelligence services cooperation without trying to create a “european army”. The fact than the most EU memebers are members of the NATO (they have to spend 2 % of they’re interior gdp) does give a term
on the idea of having a EU army. Before thinkig of such things, the EU institutions needs to create an unique Foreign Affairs Institution (call it however you want).
Christos
Yes, and many more.
Pedro
Yes. Its Urgent.
Anelia
Hah , just becouse the little Macron said it ?!?!?! We need peace , prosperity , not playing war games which taxpayers are paying
Kirstie
Who will ultimately be in charge of this European Army, who will decide which conflicts my loved ones will be deployed to fight in?
Kirstie
The fact you have posted this question on Remembrance Day when we are honouring our fallen and the 100 year anniversary of WW1 is actually very insulting and you should be ashamed.
Frank
Why would a trading bloc need an army….???? Hmmmm I wonder why.. ….
Nikola
EU needs its own army. And all foreign military bases should be removed from European soil.
Giovanni
No, absolutely not. It’s time to go out from €U and to create new political, economical and military agreements. Otherwise this army would be a mix of the old Wehrmacht and de l’Armée française. We are not slaves of Berlin and of course not of Paris. Go away immediately from this €U-Prison following the British example.
Любомир
Not before the EU is seriously reformed and the power to govern themselves is returned to the membering nation states. The last thing we need now is a military force that could be abused for EP partisan politics. I am sure the bureaucrats from Brussels would love to send military forces to Hungary and Poland right now.
Nadya
Hungary and Poland would be part of it, Duh…
Jeroen
Yes, a small one with terorrizing tech: nukes orbital cannons and autonomous attack drones and bots
Bódis
No. It’s time to live up to NATO requirements.
Manuel
Primeiro deveria ser fundado o Estado Democrático europeu. Só depois as demais instituições. Enquanto os europeus não forem capazes de fundar um Estado Democrático Europeu não estarão à altura das suas responsabilidades históricas e o mundo não terá paz. Viva a Europa como Pátria das Pátrias. Honra e glória aos que morreram nas duas grandes guerras pela paz e pela liberdade!
The European Democratic State should first be founded. Only then the other institutions. As long as Europeans are unable to establish a European Democratic State, they will not live up to their historical responsibilities and the world will not have peace. Long live Europe as the homeland of homelands. Honor and glory to those who died in the two great wars for peace and freedom!
Dirk
More than time for a European army. We need a strong union to tackle with the Russian aggressor as well as the American ally. Go for it!
Kiriakos
WE DO NOT NEED POLITICIANS.
THAT IS A GOOD START 👊👊✌
Virsta
I think it’s time….
Eric
Yes and scrap the local one so we can save a lot of money.
Alfredo
The type of army wonted by Macron against US?
Pay the bill in NATO instead of creating a useless duplicate
Geoffrey
Yes!!!!
Jude
Detached from the E.U….yes. Independent from Brussels…..and with Britain,of course.
Michael
We do not trust our neighbours to pay their debts, but we trust them to run our armed forces. So the army will be unified, but if you need to borrow money from the international markets to pay for it… good luck! Every country for itself.:p
Erika
Yes, if only just to create a power balance
Bronco
Yes!
Antonio
Decision speed is so slow that we’ll have to raise the question directly to Vladimir Putin.
Demetris
It’s been long overdue.. OF COURSE!!
Winfried Mayer
Yes, it is time for an European army and I strongly support Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Macron in their clear statements towards it.
A European Army is better than paying protection money to the US !
Winfried Mayer
Yes it is time for a European Army. It is better than paying protection money to the US.
Gustav
Let’s just wait and see what happens with the US and their military support. Without them we would have to scramble for something, anything. But right now we’re fine.
George
Let’s end the US military occupation first, before corrupting an EU future military while building it under occupation.
Jocelyn
Yes
Eduardo
NEVER!!! Each country with his own army. Never submit to anyone command but ours.
Manuel
Where were the Portuguese on the exact day 1 of January, year 1000? Who was fighting on that day for this land and people? was not the Portuguese certainly…
Giuseppe
There are many reasons why the European Union needs a common defense, that is our own armed forces among others:
1) We waste resources with too many different type of armaments with huge loss in competitiveness
2)It is utter nonsense for half a billion Europeans with literally millions of men and women in their armed forces to have to depend on a foreign power composed of 100 plus million people less to ensure it’s security.
Without your own armed forces no territory can feel sovereign, no matter how close your allies are to you any power answers to it’s own policy makers and executive powers and we do not share the same view of the world as our friends whose government does not reside within the EU’s borders.
Christos Saroglou
I totally agree with ALDE approach for the issue. It’s essential the creation of EU army to be accompanied with further more unification of the EU in terms of foreign policy and economy otherwise the use of the army could be problematic given that we will have at least 25 nations participating. I think, now without Britain and it’s veto, it’s time to have European Commissioners with increased powers, something like national ministers but in European level.
Christos
Now, without Britain and it’s veto, it’s time to move for an EU army, Europe will be a true global power only with a strong army to back its policy. It’s essential the creation of the EU army to be accompanied with further unification in terms of foreign policy, military research, economy and social. Otherwise it could be problematic given that we will have at least 25 countries participating at the European army, I think its time to have European Commissioners with extended powers something like the national ministers but in European level.
Paul
Fine….as long as European governments agree to at least triple military spending….agree unified force command – consolidate procurement (no more national champions) – have single political structure to determine deployment and rules of engagement etc…etc…..when that happens, you can wake me up !
Panayiotis
It is time for new deal in nuclear, to save europe and world
Manolis
EUROPE (GERMANY’S APPROACH WAS WRONG AND FED THE ANTI-EUROPEAN FEELINGS) FAILED TO DEAL WITH EUROPEAN ECONOMIC CRISIS. WE NEED TO THERAPY THAT PROBLEM FIRST, AND PROVE THAT WE ARE UNITED IN REALITY, AND THEN YES, WE CAN ESTABLISH A EU ARMY.
Aris
A European Army is a must.
All these years the Europeans depend on NATO (the Americans) for their Defence and Independence. As long as we depend only on NATO we have to serve the Americans interests.
This is the reason why European soldiers are in far Afghanistan. The Americans guarantee your independence and borders, so the Americans give orders to you. 1+1 = 2, not 3
Finally, all the European states spent billions to buy expensive American weapons than cooperate to build our own as a team, something which will reduce the costs..
Oliver
You think europe does not make weapons?, only weapons (that i know of) that estonia owns that are americans are the anty tank missiles, all the other weapons are either, german, swedish, danish or israili. Europe makes and uses way more than you think.
Aris
i know that Europe makes some weapons. I mean to join forces and produce weapons all together.
For example, if the French-Swedes-Germans join forces and make a European Fighter that all the European members buy then the price of this Fighter will be less expensive for the member states.
Αντωνιος
Even though i agree with you a common european army may be to much a thing for some european countries to swallow lets begin first with creating an exclusive european millitary alliance
Aris
i don’t disagree. The European members can sign a Defence Pact, they can create a European Task Force (only for Defence if a European member is in need) and plan joined military drills in different war senarios.
Constantinescu
Yes!!!
Péter
Yes, to invade Little England
Enric
The EU army, what for? Why not befriend Russia?
Péter
Russia wants to mess up Europe
Sento
Yes! And a federal Europe.
Bernardo
What a nonsense. Like everything else in EU…
Szo
This is not a good idea in these times. The EU is divided in these days more than before. The EU is in crisis and we have a serious debate of common interest. We have no toward a trully full-fledged European foreign policy (condition for the existence of army). Beside, this idea is not new. Once suffered fiasco, because EU is of a different nature 😉
Fernanda
It’s about time!!!
Alfredo
No, no and no
Andreea
A ridiculous idea!
Milko
Yes it is
Arnout
Is this still a question?
Björn
yep long overdue. Lets replace the nationaleties in NATO with EU only
Montarcilio
No. Any reason for a EU army. Stop military blocks. We have Nato and problems enough.
Pedro
YES
Oliver
No, we must not give an actual military power to the brussels bureaucrats. We are independent nations, and we will NOT submit our freedom to one power in fear of another.
Max
independence requires the ability to raise defenses. I understand how the vlads and the federovs of the world might feel threatened by the rising unification of Europe
Tim
Does that mean you think NATO should stop all the combined military exercises they do all the time, under the command of a single officer from one of the armies involved? Also, there has never ever been a suggestion that Bxl civil servants, of all people should run any army, where you get that from I can’t imagine, it would obviously be silly. Mrs TM
Mark
Going for the “Brussels bureaucrats” trope, I see. Did you not vote in the elections for your Head if State and MEP? What freedoms do you think you are losing – give a list.
Georgi
Rossia must be stopped
Montarcilio
why, is it threatning any country?…
Georgi
The Invasion and Anexion to her neighbourhoods contrys
Anonymous
May I just say as a British citizen that a 2nd referendum is an eventuality and so I believe that the only way to prevent war on a world-wide scale would be to have a single army for Europe that is subject to the whims of it’s citizens. The two world wars would never have occured if Europe had been united.
Matt
Maybe it should just pay what it owes to the NATO
Tim
Time, its been time. We need a strong EU military buying our own equipment. The USA should not be an occupation force. The wars ended over 70 years ago.
Iulian
Yes!
Demetris
It’s been long overdue.
So yes, ASAP!
Florin
Indeed, as Marios Nicolaou sais… To do what? Are we in any kind of immediate military threat? A!… Ok… Stop funding NATO. Spend on EUTO😂 or something…
Marius
A EU army would better use resources for defence than a big number of countries. There would be less generals to pay, large economies due to scale and a more standardised aquisitions with significant logistic advantages. The same budget would mean a much improved army.
Anelia
That’s a theory, and the theory for big happy European family (union) is nice, but became such a disaster for the taxpayers!
Matija
So, you are telling me that removing most of the command sector from all the states would benefit their security? Only if they want to fight for the Germans and French lol
EU army means that you would have to centralize your military towards a place that doesn’t care about your own interests, that means that smaller nations would eventually become canon fodders for the bigger ones, like France and Germany.
No thanks. Fight your wars without me.
Kiriakos
WHAT?
FIND BETTER POLITICIANS WHO CARE FOR PEOPLE
Adrian
Yes cause the Putin Government will test every EU border. Because we cannot defend easily with individual armies. We will be less dependant of the USA and that orange baffoon or any other time they elect a retard. And we can deal with any test of our European Beliefs.
Aromatic
EU Army….when there is UN Army.
It will be Waste of Time and Resources
José
FIRST IS TIME TO FIGHT CORRUPTED POLITICIANS, ANSD OFSHORES
Iulian
The European Union needs its own army to defend the values, freedoms, and European civilization of foreign interference that can affect what we have today. The unity of the countries makes us stronger. Let’s never forget what happened on September 11 in the US.
Anelia
Really, no 😀! The European countries always had theirs values, freedom identify before EU………now it’s a chaos, organized chaos. Huge bureaucracy to maintain, euro elite members of Soros’s Open society organization ( which is pushing the mass immigration) , corruption…………..should I
continue………
And September 11, yeah, that’s a big big question mark what’s really really happened there. How 6000 ( don’t remember the exact number) people died for someone’s agenda.
Matija
Wow creating an enemy to hold your argument…
Let’s not forget what Warsaw Pact and YPA had done to the states that demanded some level of sovereignty… There is not such thing as EU nationalism in the heads of people, so stop pretending that you can compare EU to USA… I sure won’t fight wars for French and German imperialistic interests. For defensive role we have NATO, EU army is more than a defensive alliance.
David
Battle groups are not used so why a EU army?
Joao
An european army means the end of NATO.
Pietro
Yes, please!
Aris
Yes, it is time for Europe to have its own European Army or a European NATO at least.
As long as the European countries depend only on NATO for their security we are forced to follow the American foreign policies and American interests.
The people who believe that wars are over, that Europe is safe and that we don’t need an Army at all they live in their own World. So, since we need a security force, NATO should not be our only choice because the Europeans don’t control NATO, others control it.
Until now the Americans and British point the “enemies” and the other members just follow them because they don’t have a choice “we are allies and we have to support you against Iran, Afghanistan, China, etc etc”.
Sento
Yes! And I stand for United States of Europe.
Mathias
Yes!
Georgi
The Russian invasion must be stop
Mā
They said EU would have it’s own border patrol.
Anelia
There will be fun, they said 😀😀😀😀😀
Max
EU doesnt have the resources. Especially since about 1/3 of the countries are free-riding and contribute essentially nothing.
Pedro
Obviously yes
Candido
Yes, it time to do it. Even soon as possible
Daniel
It’s late but not too late
João
NO! We need better salaries, better health services, more affordable housing!
Daniel
guess what kind of affordable housing you will get during invasion on Europe….
Codrin
It’s not a bad ideea, but there have to be some very strict rules, just like NATO has. If one member state is attacked, that should mean war against all other member states. That is the most important rule.
Charles
NO WE HAVE NATO AND NO NEED FOR CORPORATION ARMY
Ralf
Naturally, but under democratic government.
Mark
We would be better off dismantling armies the world over rather than increasing their numbers. The Military Industrial complex is turning our world into an Abomination!
Marc
No. Don’t escalate regional fights into international wars.
Panayiotis
stop deploy nuclear in Europe, better make new deal with Russia for less nuclear, and new peace agreement
Daniel
making deals with Russia is a bad idea
Panayiotis
it depend who is the observer
David
Contributing troops the same way it is done with NATO would be fine but each country would need to have enough troops to act independently
Uli
no country in the EU can act independently except maybe GB and France (?). The rest is weak or already specializing on specific areas. why not combine it and save costs and make it more efficient?
Tim
yes there are Battle Groups in the EU
Oliver
why would you want the EU to have military power that can potencially be used against a state who disagrees with the policies. Right now they can only place sanctions.
Uli
the same could be done already now…what is stopping a state invading another one? the EU would still be the national states and I also dont imagine an army lead by Juncker. The details need to be discussed, yes. But I guess we need to go a step further from the battle groups…
Anelia
Exactly, that’s the reason why they desperately are pushing that agenda…….and to not mention who gonna pay for all this insanity…………..taxpayers 😀, right 😀
David
If you have just one combined force, you have complications. What happens if some countries say no to deployment and others say yes?! Who decides on equipment? Who decides on pay rates? Are governments willing to put up with the political fallout if their troops die in a war the government said no to?
Jako
No it cant be done now because armies today answer to their respecitve countries
An eu army wouldnt answer to an individual country but to the council itself
Oliver
mutual understandment is keepin wars in the past. There is no idelogical reason to fight. Neither is an economic reason. I see your idea but the EU is tring to push for federation. Every european nation deservs its independence and freedom to self govern. Resent continued attemps in furtering theyr cause the nations are pushing back with right and far right parties. The power grab and rising ideologies are paralel and if continued will escalate into a war.
Marios
EU army to do what?
Max
to keep order in the European near-abroad. the next time some madman like milosevic, putin, or ghadaffi decides to go on a killing spree, Europe will be able to put a stop to it instead of just calling Washington for help.
Marios
My dear friend, Putin, Milosevic did kill any one. Did not bother any one. The west is who destroyed the countries and lives of people for the sake of money. Did Putin invaded Iraq? Did Putin invaded Libya? Did Putin invaded Syria? Does Putin supports Israel in the killing of the Palestinian people? Did Putin made Bin Laden? Did Putin bomb Yugoslavia? My dear friend, open your eyes. Look what is happening around you.
Marios
With the support of whom Turkey keeps occupying part of an EU member state? Of Putin? Of Milosevic or of the West?
Tim
back on planet earth, Putin has invaded an occupied Ukraine, Georgia and others, they constantly threaten to invade others. What we dont need is weak people like you
Tim
Note he lives in an island that takes advantage of that Dictators stolen funds. Disgusting
Marios
In which planet do you live? Where have you seen an invasion in Ukraine or Georgia? You seem a bit confuse. Why don’t you make a list of the US invitations all over the world? It will take you some time because it would be a long list
Marios
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Jako
To keep unruly member states in line
Tim
go play your games elsewhere, everyone knows the reality
Marios
but you live in your own planet.
Louis
Yes .War is looming and mainland Europe must be well prepared.
Scott
We already have a number of armies across Europe that already work effectively alongside each other. This is just another ploy in the EU’s grab for power.
Oscar
No. Europe cant reach a decision on simple issues how will it decide who leads the army, or even worse which missions it should undertake.
Antonio
the armies of the EU countries are already collaborating in various places.
Pier
I agree
Gaz
While reading the comments it dawned to me, how many of the pro EU Army comments have been written by people that are or have served in the Military? Seems to me that none of you experts have, happy to be proven wrong though.
Rumy
What next? Republic on Europe, centralised government and socialism ? We did this with USSR not so long ago – it doesn’t work.
Matija
EU army would have only one role and that role would be to bully small puppet states. We had that in Yugoslavia, it was called Yugoslavian People’s Army and when it had to protect a member state it did the quite opposite because it was following commands from the Beograd. EU is showing all the examples of centralization and first steps of totalitarian role over all states. EU is no longer a union, but rather an empire that is lead by French and German aristocrats.
Same thing was with the Red Army and Warsaw Pact, when Czechoslovakia, Hungary and the rest of states wanted even a slightest sovereignty they got invaded. I won’t even mention the rest of the empires that ignored other nations sovereignty, but it’s pretty clear why those empires are past. The people who are for such army are against liberty and thus democracy.
History has proven, more than once that with such army all states lose their liberty. It’s all fun and games until the system that you supported starts representing values that you do not like, but you gave it all the power and now you can’t stop it.
If you give someone a power that he can use to oppress you, don’t act surprised when he uses that force to actually oppress you.
Michael
this. A million times, this.
Florin
Yes.
Paul
Arguments are fine on paper…but wait until you have body bags being flown home…going to war is the ultimate test of a nation’s resolve and cohesion..it’s unimaginable that the current EU political structure and lack of accountability…and in many eyes credibility…could cope with the public angst.
Павел
Offcourse. With NO.
Franco
NO !
Pedro
This is like the 50th time… Of course yes!
Gustav
National armies, airforces, coast guards, air defenses, navies… hugely inefficient!
Let’s start small, with a common air defence for example.
Patrizia
The question is who is going to manage that.
Filipe
No. Military cooperation between member states is OK, but not an army!
Pietro
Yes, it’s necessary.
Maria
Only to fight Islamic invasion
Michael
Yes.
David
Definitely, yes.
That’s why we have to vote for Volt this month! 💜🇪🇺
Christos
Yes, we’re already late.
Pavlos
We already have a useless and declining global sheriff namely NATO. Yes the one that spread depleted uranium and cancer to the Balkans in 1999. We dont need another one to serve the interests of the ready to collapse German Union (a.k.a EU) Hence NO thank you! 😉
Павел
Just noticed the soldiers are armed with Bulpap rifles, funny what the recruiting officer will say to left handed candidates? Jjust wait until the spent casings start flying just next to their faces when they shoot, they will leave the army running LOL
Asawa
Of course. Strictly local defense only. Time to get out of NATO and away from USA
Georgi
The Russian agression must be stopped
Martyna
Yes, instead of NATO
Valentin
Yes!
Παπαιωαννου
No thanks
Chryssi
Definitely YES
Tim
We need a strong EU military with our own equipment, yesterday
jthk
This is correct. With our own EU army, we are obliged to develop our own defense system. It is in this way we can be independent and free. In this way, our technology can improve, which is essentially required for an economy to prosper and to realize peace and security.
David
Better to have joint ventures in the European industry of de fence
Alfredo
No! Without a common foreign policy there is no reason to have common armed arme forces
Elie
Eu army will have 24 hours disputes lool .dont u see that the EU is divided?
Line
NO!!!!!
Bernard
No, because after a Europe army comes a world Army.
jthk
It is important to set a purpose for the EU army. An EU army must be tailor-made for the purpose of EU. Without setting a parameter to guide the purpose of an army, many evil things can happen. For example, the UN has the peace-keeping troops.
EU Reform- Proactive
Never allow the EU to strive or become a global EU (USE) military power!
I am less concerned about an external military threat then a possible internal EU supranational implosion! This may arise from its political concept- not an external military occurrence.
Why create fear & artificial reasons by constantly antagonizing Russia or in believing every single word Trump and pro EU fear/war mongers spread- to justify an EU army?
One does not need such “EU army”= defense force to (one day) invade and enforce EU treaty law within (“uncooperative”) but still sovereign member’s states!
The EU is neither sovereign nor an independent state- only a supranational organization! Everything else is based on cooperation agreements & international law- like the existing NATO membership. That is sufficient deterrent!
Rather introduce moral, ethical and some basic legal training for all higher ranked National politicians & bureaucrats to better understand their role in proper state governance, like:
to always abide and follow the rule of law, be loyal to the National Constitution, honor & respect international agreements, act with integrity at all times, build a global competitive economy, be accountable to the electorate and a shining example for all- day & night!
Please let this be your final & last attempt- to promote an “EU army” here- till after the next EU election in 2024! Thank you!
jthk
An EU army should be representing European interests, while the NATO is representing American interests. To pay for sustaining or making the American Great Again is idiot, as we have seen that a declining superpower is becoming very irrational and aggressive. As Mdm Angela Mekerel said, Europe can no longer rely on the US for protection. Now, it is the time for an EU army, as our major obstacle, the UK has left the union.
Zoltan
Oh God are we dragging up this sad old topic again.Listen,Trump would love the EU to set up it’s own army,it’d give him the excuse he’s been looking for to break up NATO,the most successful military alliance in history,and the one and only reason we’ve had relative peace on this continent for the last seventy years.
And don’t forget this ‘army’ would be missing some of NATO’s biggest hitters the US,UK,Turkey and Canada and all because a few of you are jealous of America,Putin must be laughing himself silly.
Maia Alexandrova
There is no need for an EU army, but there could be an agreement for military co-operation between national armies, so that if there is a threat, it will be met with a quick, united response. That’s it. Anything more than is an unnecessary fuss and expenses. NATO is not needed either – it is just a tool for American political dominance over European countries. EU should not be commanded by USA.
Nadya
Long overdue.
Vincenzo/Braian
For us, a EU’s army should be used only in defense and never in attack, because one of the values of EU is the peace. What do you think?
EU Reform- Proactive
Hi guys,
you should very well know what the EU (EC & EP) “thinks”- if you’re up to date!
To ask them (again & again) would be fruitless! To whom are you posing this question? For example, you could respond to an assortment of 1,462 comments!
To mention & consider:
Speaking of forming an “EU army”- in its traditional sense- is totally wrong, presently “illegal” and out of order within the current supranational EU concept! Only a fully fledged sovereign country is entitled (as per UN Charter- pls look it up) to protect its sovereignty and its right to self determination with a “national army” etc. Everything else is based on international agreements between Nations- like NATO.
Do the EU Federalists wish to compete or destroy NATO- prematurely? Plain suicide!
The EU is becoming more and more a glorified political and power hungry concept- aiming to remove all remaining competences still vested within its sovereign Members (28-1) in order (one day- hopefully never) to claim victory over the “confederates” and pronounce itself a fully sovereign “USE Nation”. Only then could the EU speak about & form an “EU Army”.
The UN Charter (1945) protects the right of all Nations and their sovereignty. The EU insiders works against this Charter by destroying this right for its 28 Members- using the “free will” principle!
If however, the “EU” can “hypnotize” and soften up all its 28 Members long enough to give up their precious sovereignty out of “their free will”- in favor of a “new State”- either called United States of Europe (USE) or “The Federal Republics of Europe” (FRE) and the UN grants such application- than all former 28 Members must pack their suitcases, return from the UN in New York and fly home to their now “downgraded” & renamed e.g. the “Italian Province” of the USE or FRE.
Is that the political price you wish to pay? Ask yourselves- not the EU!
jthk
UK does not only want to prevent the formation of an EU army, by seizing Iran oil tanker, it is now trying to ignite a third great war in the Middle East for the Brexit can isolate the UK from the influx of all refugees. This would lead to chaos in Europe, while the UK remains the most stable economy, which would draw huge FDI while Europe would be in great social and economic instability. This is only a traditional strategy the UK has been using as an isolated state from the European continent. Brexit would lead to total isolation of the UK and its political and economic influence in Europe would drastically decrease. The only way is to ignite the fire for a third devastating world war. This serves the continuous dominance of UK in Europe supporting by a foreign power, the US. As such, EU needs to be more determine in handling the Brexit, which has been dragging our own progress and development too long. It is necessary to speed up the formation of an EU army. As in history, Russia is a member of the European family. Hostility and isolation of Russia, which is a military power only second to the US, serves nothing good for Europe. It is only through economic prosperity, Europe can become powerful to defend itself like what China has been doing for 40 years. All states need a power army to deter aggression. After Brexit, UK is a dagger threatening Europe security particularly it is the mother country of the most aggressive hegemony. We have to remember, the US is the single country that has been fighting most war all over the world and responsible for all death toll of many soldiers and civilians after the two devastating world wars. It is time Europe needs innovative and independent defense towards social stability and economic development all for Europe, not for the American to become great again.
jthk
A state or an political and economic union without its own defensive capacity is not sovereign. When the UK is no more a member of the EU, it would and is already joining hand with the US disregarding peace and security of Europe by seizing Iran tanker. War or peace, Europe has to make its own choice now.
Mike
This is a difficult one; on one hand yes a European Army is the institucionalisation of the political power of the EU, and it has the capability for being one of the most powerful armies in the world capable of sending a clear message specially to our most “cheeky” or beligerant neighbours. On the other hand political power should be in the lowest possible form, and diplomacy is always the best way to deal with the huge problems the EU has, starting with the disfunctional Euro a.k.a reformed Deutsch mark, the weakness of the European Parliament and ending with the huge influx of migrants mostly economical from outside Europe; I also think this army could be use more as form of internal authority to keep EU citizens under control and restrain.
Anonymous
‘to keep EU citizens under control and restrain’
My god this place really is turning into the Soviet Union.
Zdravko
No.
Николай
We are 50 years late
Nadia
About time!
Christos
Yes
Joris
Finally. Work together please..
GC
Yes.
Simeon
Yes
Pedro
Defenetly yes
Yannick
Not again please.
Christopher
nope
Valentin
Yea. 100 %.
Anelia
Are you all mad or just trolls
Ehab
Every parliament needs a force to protect it. The European Union has a parliament and enjoys democracy and therefore needs its support to protect it
José
it is just now the time to fight corrupted politicians
John-romi
It is time for european police to fight against coruption.
Demetris
Yes. ASAP
Frank E.
Never.
Arnout
Yep
Paul
Oh goody…manned by the Dutch ( remember Screbenicia)..funded by the Greeks…led by beuraucrats..what could possibly go wrong.
Arnout
Not much.
Julia
Yes, and a more social EU. Trade was first, security is an important second step, then EU-wide social equality will be third-the icing on the cake.
Joan
No, it s time for an UE where the leaders aren t alcholics and drug addicts, where money is used in social benefit and not making the rich more rich, an Europe we can be proud off
Arnout
well the biggest social benefit they did is create peace. But I agree that we need more social benefits, but I also see that that could not have been done before since nations only care for their own wealth.
David
No the EU isn’t a country it’s not Europe stop kidding yourselves.
Arnout
Europe is also not a country. Neither is Nato. So there is no barrier to not make an army.
HJo
Being against army’s in general, I still would prefer one European army capable to act…
Arnout
same, i see it as a necessary evil. Sadly.
Olivier
Yes start with European equipment instead of buying us jets… Like Poland and Greece did….
Arnout
Though not against staying close with the us, I do think we need to have our own capacity.
And looking at equipment we have alot of top 3 stuff.
Wernher
European Union – EU Police
Miro
It’s time to abolish the EU
Γεώργιος
It is time for reducing sharply all european armies for lack of enemies
Arnout
i do see china, russia and the US but also saudi as enemys.
The thing is if you dont have an army you cant offer any counter weight to what america is doing.
Aka an army is not just there to fight but also a bargaining chip to offer other solutions.
Marc
Isn’t the EU a trade organisation?
Arnout
Nope, its far more.
Marc
What is it then?
Michail
Causa perduta. With those,who should comprise that EU army purchasing American(not European) weaponry, how exactly would that army defend Europe’s interests?
Arnout
they also have European equipment. In theory there is no issue in keeping close allies with the US and thus buying their weaponry as they use a far greater budget on creating weapons.
That doesnt mean we should also have our alternatives.
Michail
The guys from Washington already declared the EU an adversary. Close ties with them means being their lackeys and doing exactly as been told. About “our alternatieves”, look at Turkey and then think again about any alternatives, whether they are possible at all.
Άθανάσιος
First give some honest and true financial aid to the south, help solve the corruption problems of countries like Greece and only then discuss about a common army. EU is already proving itself as a failure in the economic sector. It is rediculous to even think of upgrading it to a military union at this point.
Anelia
Or the new totalitarianism is coming, congratulations
Николай
First the US occupation must end, and than European national guard.
Jacky
Yes !
Franco
Not in my name !
Arnout
No they will do it in the name of democracy.
Любомир
“Democracy”.
Franco
as always of course, in the name of democracy, Afghanistan, Iraq , Libya , Syria and so on…
Paschalis
At the EU’s current rate of dictating to other states how should they run their domestic policies, HELL NO!!!
Arnout
they are not dictating its a democracy. Blame your leaders for failing to put forward what you care about and stop crying if the rest in the democracy do not agree.
Paschalis
Were any of the local citizens, within Europe, given the chance to vote on any of the policies implemented by individuals in Brussels let alone that of senior level officials, not even elected by anyone… So please spare me the nonsense…
Arnout
its not biased its facts. But the way you write makes you biased as fck. As you seem to do not understand the process and have some silly hatred because you do not.
Maby vote in proper politicians next time so you wont be left to the grace of other nations.
Paschalis
okay… run along now, comrade! I understand the process 100% actually every Greek does better than any European.
Regardless of whom you vote the wealthy prevail (bankers)… But people like you assume the term called democracy of which is bull… You believe in unicorns
Paschalis
we live in a represented Republic and not a democracy… Leaders are elected by the party where as the party elects it’s leader so all decisions go through the party.
Oh great, the rebirth of the Grande Armee, all we need now is to find some vertically challenged Frenchman to lead it.
Mário Paes
YES, it’s about time to stop financing US arms industry and spend the same amount in house. EU house. NATO only serves the purpose of US. Without brits, a US satellite, EU can move on in many aspects.
So, well yeah, EU armes forces.
yc ghkbm
Like anyone’s gonna join
Barry Curtis
Fellow Europeans,
It’s so easy to suggest forming a European Army/Armed Forces in the future, to counter what’s considered an Americanized NATO that currently protects Europe. I can fully understand that Europe wants to step out of the shadows, and share the limelight with the likes of America, China and Russia on the global stage. Personally I feel that too much thinking is being directed at making the European Union a superpower by May 2025, through the tighter controls that the EU wants to implement in the years to come. All the European countries need to seriously think about what they truly want for their citizens future, do they want long-term peace and independence, if so then a more balanced NATO would be the better option, and to help bring long-term peace to our continent. Russia and the other non-NATO countries need to be included in the new structure alongside the existing members, to build a bright future together and to reduce approximately 11,5 million (Regular & Reserve) military personnel in the process.
jimmy
no ,no, no I do not want Germany near France or UK nukes, Germany is far to powerful now .Nato is best option so we can not go jack booting around the world
Michael Sweeney
speaking from a debate team in school, against the motion “The EU needs an army” from what we have researched from a sergeant in Oghlaigh na hEireann (Irish army) and from other points of information of a reliable force, the EU having an army would have many downsides no matter.
Jan Franken
Yes please, this will be way more efficient and a true force to reckon with. Also let’s move towards strong outside border and ensure controlled, just and fair immigration. Immigration that does not go beyond the social capacity of member states to absorb, welcome and assimilate newcomers, and of people that will truly contribute to the EU!!!
Chris
Yes
Ray
Yes
Valentin
Of course
Artur
We already have the EUROFOR (European Rapid Operational Force) and the European Union Military Committee (EUMC) .
Antonio
Absolutely
Bobbi
yes
Enric
Every country has got an army, plus Nato…we don,t need any more.
Markas
To fight against whom?
Peter
Yes
Pedro
Better sooner than later
Anna
Yes we need an EU army
Kevin
This is why we left the Europe to keep or identity trying to have United States of Europe which isn’t going to end well
Patricia
no
Milina
Yes
Arnout
Its not time in the sense of eu unity. But we have no choice so yea we need it asap.
Anelia
No ,we do not need asap !!!
Arnout
@Anelia you better see what china is doing and then think about how to deal with it when its too late. Which it already is.
Or well you can explain me here how to keep our heads above the water.
José
It´s time to put in jail al corrupted politicians in Al EU states, including in Portugal
Christo
No! Against whom are we going to fight? North Korea, Iran, Venezuela or our dear neighbors Turkey?
Darrell
Realistically. the threats are from Russia, China and the USA. Having an army for the zone will at least remove any obligations through trade for military from any of those countries.
Takis
against turkey of course,,,,, dear neighbors not at all
Romania
When a small country, let’s say Romania, Lituania or Poland is atacked how long would take for birocrats from different countries to react. A unified EU Army would act in a matter of hours. So yes, we need an army able to act beyond national countries.
Christo
And who do you think would attack these countries?
Anelia
he’s or delusional or troll 😀
Alex
no1 cares about that 3 countries
Alex
NO WAY
Anelia
For all who said “yes” , who is going to pay this insanity and against who is going to be used ……..Russians (😁🤣😉)……or protesters…..???
Anna
yes Turkey are they not a threat to Greece and Cyprus or do you not hear the news??…. Every day violating our FIR space by F16’s ….and sending thousands of refugees and illegal immigrants to the Greek Islands we definitely need an EU army to combat this problem https://greece.greekreporter.com/tag/fir/
Marius
Why not russia? They have troops in three independent countries without right. Who’ s gone stop them from entering in Romania, Poland or Baltic countries: Germany or France? 😂😂😂😂
Anelia
@Marius You watch to much SNN
Anelia
@Pedro you sound like a troll ! Yeah, the biggest ,non elected from the people, bureaucracy living on the working class shoulders
Anelia
@Marius Don’t forget, in WW2 Russians gave 4 000 000 millions victims! And yes, you really watch to much SNN, MSNBC…. 😀
Anelia
@Anna Yes, what are you saying is true and is unacceptable !!! But open your eyes, that with the illegal “refugees ” is different agenda, EU doesn’t need army to stop it ,they are provoking it ! It’s a dirty game……
Marius
@Anelia We, in the Eastern Europe, know from our grandfathers stories how was it to deal with russians. Mine said: ” a good russian is a dead russian” and he had no reason to lie. We did not heard it from the news like others. I do not know your source, but belive me, russia is a menace to all Europe and we should not treat it easy.
Pedro
@Anelia the EU is the biggest economy in the world. It will pay for its own defense under its own command.
Pedro
@Anelia all EU Member States have democraticaly eleted governments. That “unelected” slogan is a lie.
Pedro
@Anelia Civil servants are not elected anywhere in the world.All Member States are eletive dmocracies. They chose their governates in accordance with teir constitucions. Members of the Council are those governants and mebers of the Comission are aprooved by the Europeam Parliament. Only neo-fascists acuse the EU of undemocratic.
Marius
@Anelia Casualties happens in times of war, but this do not change the criminal actions of the russian empire. They started WW2 alogside their natzis allies and paid for it, not enought in my point of view.
jthk
Immediately after killing the military commander of Iran, Pompeo claimed that he had that discussed with the British Foreign Minister. It is crystal clear that the US is trying to convey a message that the UK is involved in such killing so that Iran might carry out terrorist attack again in Europe. The US has already successful in doing this with the 911. US European allies are closer to the Middle East thus cliser to retaliation. Europe is stupid to place its military command under the US NATO.
jthk
Macron is correct, NATO is suffering from brain dead. If US Secretary of State Pompeo was not lying, he had really discussed the assassination of Iran military commander General Soleimani Saleimani with British foreign Minister. The brain dead process has spread. Macron has immediately joined Russia on the accusation of such irresponsible assassination is very wise. France ought to withdraw its military command from NATO as General De Gaul had done.
Barry Curtis
Fellow Europeans,
America’s latest assassination of another puppet master Soleimani Saleimani, only proves that the middle east is one big powder keg of problems. History has proved that America and Europe will never change the Arab mindset, regardless of how many missiles are used, Iran will always manipulate behind the scenes to unbalance its neighbors. Personally it would be better for everyone if America stops trying to mould the world into its own image, and try and help develop a new NATO that can bring Europe closer together along with Russia, to remove once and for all, past cold war thinking. By accepting Russia into NATO as an equal member, will open up new opportunities in resolving the most sensitive of all issues – nuclear weapons, I feel that a modern version of the START talks could take place, the main difference this time will be for the United Kingdom and France, and hosting members Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey to come to the table as well, and for all nine countries to sign a treaty of intent to reduce the current nuclear arsenal to a more acceptable level that also covers future basing in Europe.
United States – Warheads (deployable 1,600 currently – reduce to 800)
(total 6,450 currently – reduce to 3,225)
Russia – Warheads (deployable 1,600 currently – reduce to 800)
(total 6,490 currently – reduce to 3,225)
France – Warheads (deployable 280 currently – will not deploy operationally)
(total 300 currently – will be dismantled and to destroy stockpile)
United Kingdom – Warheads (deployable 120 currently – will not deploy operationally)
(total 215 currently – will be dismantled and to destroy stockpile)
Host Members – will sign to make their countries nuclear free compliant in the future.
Its long overdue for Europe to be at peace with its self, and work more towards showing the way for other continents to make the world a better place.
Vdovicenco
of course yes
Pieter Schönberger
Yes, I think this is a great idea if all armies are joined together there will be no war.
But only if it is used purely for protection and safety, not for power.
Barry Curtis
Pieter, that is my long-term view, my thoughts also move more in line with NATO supporting the United Nations in making the world a safer place to live. The only way change can permanently happen, is for all the world’s leaders to come together and to sign a global treaty on arms reduction – (Who knows what the future will hold for everyone – perhaps long-term peace).
No
I would rather see the EU disband than turn into a military bloc. The only reason people seem to want this to happen is because it hasn’t been tried. I can’t rationalise any other position down to any other motivation, other than a ‘well we might as well do it, while we’re here’ attitude.
You don’t need a super-national army to deal with terror attacks. What a stupid idea. Terror attacks are on the decrease in frequency in the EU, and having a united army wouldn’t do anything to help even if that were not the case. What has a united core of tanks, aircraft and military operation got to do with some lunatic in a truck? You plan on rolling in the tanks a couple of hours after someone shoots up a supermarket? Ridiculous.
A unified army in Europe wouldn’t stop war, either. That’s like saying having only one government would stop a coup.
Let alone the fact that member states’ sovereignty would be at further risk than it is today.
A fragmented international society is safer than a united one. One bad decision in that system and everyone falls, but in a fragmented system, one bad decision doesn’t have to affect everyone else.
Barry Curtis
To Mr or Ms No,
I totally understand your thoughts on the EU wanting to form its own military, I have always felt that it will cause more harm than good, by having a super-power struggle start between the EU and Russia will only aggravate what is a delicate peace we have all enjoyed since the end of the Cold War. That’s why I
have suggested the best alternative way forward for Europe – please refer back to 10th October 2019 and 8th January 2020 to see my alternative views on the future, I hope it helps to open up new thinking.
Bert van Santen
No. The EU politicians claim the EU is an trading bloc. Why should the EU need an army, when there is NATO?
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Should Europe have its own army? With Britain set to (in theory) leave the EU in 2019, one of the largest defence spenders in the European Union is about to leave. Almost 25% of EU defence expenditure currently comes from the UK, and Britain has historically obstructed any moves towards a common EU military. With the British and their veto on their way out (and with President Trump openly questioning US commitment to NATO) could it finally be time to move ahead on security and defence integration?We reject any further militarisation of the European Union and believe that the European Union should be a purely civilian union and not a military union. Therefore, this question is superfluous in the context of our basic program. At the same time, however, I would like to say that, even if one supported this idea, which I do not, it is not constitutionally possible at all in my view. For a European army we would also need a European federal state, with corresponding parliamentary powers which the European Parliament does not have at all.
We don’t believe it’s a good idea to have a common army. We think that we have, for example, the battlegroups that we can send out in peacekeeping missions; they have never been used so far, even though they cost a lot. That could be a first step towards working more together. It’s good to coordinate the different armies we have in Europe, but we should not have a common European army.
It wouldn’t be a problem, in technical terms, to establish military units or a so-called ‘European army’. The political question is how and when, or for what purpose this army will be used. We are again speaking about the problems of political unity. We have to agree who is our enemy and where we should engage our army. And I remember how it was when Slovenia was attacked 25 years ago. At that time, there was no European Common Foreign and Security Policy. And I would say we still have problems with that because different Member States have different opinions of the main challenges.
1,582 comments Post a commentcomment
Yes ! to save money and be more efficient ;)
And who would command this army and in what language?
The command should be turned between the states, and it should be divided by nationalities
..and there in lies the biggest problem, 27 nations each working to their own agendas is why the EU as an organisation is so inept…..trying to force 27 militaries under one command and control structure will lead to one of the most ineffective armed forces on the planet….
Yup
That’s again an odd question. Militaries from various EU countries already work together a lot, mostly under the umbrella of NATO. Ergo, an “EU army” can easily be formulated through closer cooperation, outside NATO. It’s a parallel to the EU itself, countries retain their individuality, etc. while also being stronger as part of a community.
NATO works because (like it or not) the US as the largest contributor dominates proceedings. Just who exactly is going to be the lead country in any EU army?
the uk the best armed forces in Europe will not be part of it anyway we will stick with America the strongest armed forces in the world 21 years service british army
Duh
In current state ….no. EU needs to be drastically fixed
Only if used within EU countries to protect citizens and kick out illegal migrants.
Fuck this idea! And the people behind.
An army under the bEUraucrats? No thanks
Si è il momento giusto .E deve anche sviluppare una deterrenza credibile nucleare partendo da quella Francese It is the right time .It must also develop a credible nuclear deterrence starting with the French, not to be a rich and luxurious porcelain vase in the middle of the iron pots …
What about ceasing all attempts to disarm its own people first?
No one in Europe is armed. You are posting on the wrong country forum, Mr Troll.
It is time for PEACE!
Thats why armies exist lol
absolutly no !!!!!
You’d rather keep free-riding us forever? You’d rather NOT have the capability to deal with your own near-abroad?
No
why not?
Because it’d be only useful to repress European countries and his protesters. Perfect approach in order to have a civil war.
Agreed, Pierluigi Dispenza, and as back up to the US on their plundering of other nations.
Yesterday was already late :P
Well they haven’t got uk army now
Kevin Ó Siondaile
Slowly. As in start with a few divisions, gradually expland. We need an EU Air Force and Navy.
what about irish and swedish neutrality Kevin? they could take on more UN duties instead. It would be more about protecting the EU borders, and intervening in disaster areas, french already have nukes…do we really need anymore? if they go off we are all screwed anyway, french and italians have good airforce and navy, irish already do a lot of UN work, not being part of the Joker in Gotham City’s lunacy would be a good thing, but also not being a part of the U.S. wars would be a good anyway, retaining control of our bases would be good too, so in prinicple yes, but carefully does it.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
What for? To protect non existing borders? Or “fascists” that do not like nice people from ME? We do not need protection, we are liberal open minded people that overcame “populist” agendas about borders and national states. Allahu Akbar! :)
But we do, turky
Renata Komninos, we do what?
So that you can First manage your own damn near-abroad, and then also stop free-riding our strategic alliance like a bunch of welfare queens, and carry some of the #$%^& strategic defense burden yourselves.
Suncica Cvitkovic Anderson there is no nice people in the ME
Max Berre, thank you massa /slave owner/, you bring 1€ in Croatia and take out 100€ in profits, so shut up! By the way Croatian troops are in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Baltic states, Africa!
If yes! And if lots of people say yes, and if army really goes ahead, it will be one step further to create Europe, Federation o states.
absolutely. NATO is good, but EU should have own army…
would you sign up to be part of this army or you just want other people to go a die for you?
these people would take our money for their services. this is just a job, same as miner or firefighter. so.. would you sign up to be part of firefight service or you just want other people to go a die for you in fire?
Yes – need to end our reliance on US power.
We have our own armed forces ,have you forgot that.
Absolutely not. The EU has far too much control over member states as it is. The EU should be disbanded. Though we’ll probably all lose another ton of money changing back to our own currencies. A beast with many unelected heads, feeding from an overflowing trough.
The alternative seems to be member-nations mostly free riding the NATO alliance. As an american tax-payer, that is not something that I wont to keep paying for indefinitely.
NATO is another pile of crap. As an Irish tax payer, I’m certainly not happy at American military planes refuling in Shannon and breaking our neutrality.
Max Berre 1. Go Trump! 2. Do you actually pay taxes in the US, are you more of an in spirit kind of American tax-payer?
Palvolgyi Denes Actually, Obama also made reference to this matter. NATO’s strategic free-ridership problem has actually been an ongoing frustration in Washington since the Clinton administration. And yes, I still have US taxes to worry about. The only way I could completely get away from that would be to renounce my US citizenship AND move all my assets abroad (not ever gonna do either of those though).
Yes. if the EU is going to matter in the world. It’s going to need its own viable institutions. It’s also going to need to be able to influence events in its own near-abroad.
If you have a problem go back to the US. You don’t tell us what to do in our own lands.
This question appear periodically – you don’t like the answers or what :D
real question is: does it make sense to have national armies within the EU? We have no borders between us and no need to have actual armies defending each other’s territories. Do we need an army for external threats to the EU? Yes of course
Have you learned nothing from the clone wars? Its all part of Sidious’ plan!
.
Nazism, Fascism, Communism and now Europeanism, only the colour of your flag changes.
Thank god we are leaving the warmongering EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39325561
We have now voted to leave and will regain our borders back.
Also you keep saying “WE”,the EU should fight it’s own battles because I can tell you as an ex serviceman virtual NO Brit would fight for the EU.Our oath is to Queen& Country.
“Warmongering EU”…
Should I remind you of who was US’ biggest ally in the phony Irak war?
I think regional forces based on blocs could distribute the costs of the armed defence of Europe. There could be a GermanoNordic bloc, FrancoLatin bloc and an Eastern bloc. This might be an effect way to divide costs while distributing responsibilities about. Just cause Britain’s left doesn’t mean that it isn’t interested in European affairs pertaining to defence. I’m sure it would come around to collaborative drills with its Allies. And let’s no forget Trump won’t be around forever folks. His popularity plummets with each breath we take. America likes it’s traditionally “unchallenged” presence in other lands and I’m sure a EU army would have the Yanks as stumped as the Russians.
YES
NO! :D
Yes, its time! Europe has a capacity to be very porwerful force globaly! This union wont survive only with money and good principles. Some … neighbours are thinking about it as a week one. Its time to show up some real power!
A careful yes. While I am a pacifist and therefore aainst ANY armies. I am for riding the EU of it’s NATO dependency.
No thank you
There pretty much is one already under NATO.
Whis serves american interests more than European ones.
Yeah, fair point. My wife is Romanian, and most people there are uneasy about the American missile system being deployed in Romania and Poland.
Nato …yes that organization that does nothing
Yes, cause next time when some nation decides to leave EU we could send army and kill all opposition like Americans did in CIvil War.
We need to defend integrity of EU even if it means exterminating all citizens or rebellious state…
/SarcasmOff
It does sound like sarcasm, doesn’t it? ….
Really?
Yes. It time for federation.
.
When Nations refuse to join your federation will you use your new army to teach them a lesson ?
Don’t be stupid.
@Duirmuid Mac Sean
I’m assuming you are of Irish origin* – Will Ireland be in the putative EU army by any chance?
*I could be wrong and if so I apologise in advance – although I consider being called Irish a compliment!
Yes… Along with a control of EU borders on land and the seas…
✊
.
‘Europeans’ had the same argument in Germany 1935, the outcome will be the same .
LOL!
No it’s not the right time for an EU army, but it’ HIGH TIME for a joint border system guarding EU including military elements.
The people who answer yes to this question make me glad I voted for Brexit. I have a child in the British military and this is my biggest fear, that one day there will be a European Army that individual member states will have no control over. It’s a dangerous plan.
As if individual member states were more or less likely to use ‘defense’ for legitimate purposes. I don’t buy it. whichever way. The least we spend on the military the better.’
Yannick Cornet at least the people of those individual states have some control. Who would be in charge of an EU army? Who would have the final word in a military situation? Militarised superpower is a dangerous thing.
There is much more control towards the EU than towards single governments. People just ignore all the consultations, referendums, representation, interaction offices, popular initiative laws, reports and transparency and so on which EU offers.
They are accountable towards many countries, not just one, and can’t control the media like national governments do, as simple as that.
But we’re happy UK is getting out, too skewed toward interests of USA more than common European ones.
Daniel Bernoulli again, who will have final say in a military campaign if we have an EU army? No one seems to be able to answer this question. Which countries general will be in charge on the battle field…it can only be one, surely?
Irrational fear. Texas was an independent state too. Thing is to keep individual states freely contributing and not forcing them
Kirstie that will be european comission prerogative. You see EU IS PEOPLE its not a bunch od reptiles or aliens but member states leaders that are making decissions
and yet no one can answer my question. i don’t think it is an irrational fear either. British people voted against action in Syria, if it was the decision of the EU then no doubt we would have been forced into military action. EU is NOT people currently, EU is not held accountable by the people, we don’t get to vote!!
Kirstie, how about the national parliaments, as it is for NATO, too? For my taste, it could also be the European Parliament – as soon as we have true European parties.
Believe me the Germans will have control …why is nobody learning from history ?
Yes, if it is not too late already.
Is time to build a federation, with a federal goverment, a federal army, a federal Police, federal justice organs and equal taxes for all EU citizens…
The EU wet dream. Nahhh… Not gonna happen.
It is also the not so wet dream of many ordinary people that want to continue living in peace as in the last 3 generations. No to nationalism. No pasaran.
You mean a superstate …are you stupid or just crazy ?
If we think of the EU unification like the unification of Germany, then its the united military spirit that will unite europe in a common goal. But its better for the EU to first create laws that will make that EU army a solely defensive force
No, the EU armed force needs to be capable of waging war in it`s full glory.
The EU Armed Forces will respond to the European Parliament, the only institution capable of deploying it.
and what kind of glory is in killing?
@Akis Muto
Solely defensive force? With France and Germany at the helm! LOL!
No! For what? To fight the Porblems made by the Leaders and the stupid following of that? We are forced to fight each other every day by “doing business” how about changing that instead of forcing on military shit?
problems*
“Time for an E.U. Army ?” Of course ! “What are they waiting for?
David Cameron was indeed right. The EU is not about peace. It’s about power.
Do you believe that any EU battle group would attack and occupy other countries like the British army did in Iraq or Libya? Maybe, military should be limited to peacekeeping operations by EU treaty. E.g. German constitution doesn’t allow attacking other countries. Still, Parliamentarians accepted attacks on Serbia and now Syria together with the British and others. I wonder why nobody is sueing them.
Yes!
Yes. Not only that it will provide cheaper and better defence, it is also a good tool of redistributing money in the EU. Specially the poor countries would benefit dramatic financially.
Yeah, we can’t wait to have your army after your troika’s occupation. Anything else?
As of yesterday!
Yes , it is about time for EU army.
Yes, because it’s the only practical way of defending ourselves. Think about it: people can move free. In times of conflict, people flee and can no longer be found where they were.
As such, they cannot be protected by their national armies, can they? The practical solution is a European army, to protect any and all people, regardless of their nationality.
This would avoid most of the ethical implications of the current setup.
You are really naive enough to believe an EU army will be there to defend us? What if a far right wing government was voted in in Germany and France …who do you think they are going to defend ? Countries are already divided . In Yugoslavia religions lived next door to each other for centuries and overnight its all gone . You really think people are Europeans first and Muslim/ Jewish / Hindu second . Democracy is very fragile and can be lost in 24hours and your grandchildren will be paying the price
Only if there is an absolute ban on operations out side European borders
What would the point of it be then? (Except to potentially oppress member states)
And after that, let’s make a new euro central bank, but for the Yen.
What the fuck kind of statement is that?
Should the army should only be for engaging member states?
Yes the poor countries will get money sent home from their dead soldiers while the liberal elite dodge the draft because they go to college
With Erdogan getting crazier week by week and the influx of potential jihadists, sure we need to improve the defensive capabilities.
The weapons lobby will be clicking their champagne glasses..
Jihadists are already in Europe thanks to A.Merkel…. Erdogan didn’t even have to lift a finger.
Stop asking and do it already.
Only if it is not controlled centralised. If the Northern europeans control the banks the southern should at least control the armies. EU is too unbalanced as it is, and people still push even further this unbalance at the expense of some nations.
@Alex
UNBELIEVABLE!
You want a proposed [evil] EU army to be controlled by countries prone to dictatorship and replete with rank corruption!
What an utter nincompoop!
So that UE led by Germany could enter Poland and make my country do whatever Germany needs to, e.g. accept the so called refugees who were invited by Angela Merkel without asking citizens of other member countries? No, thank you. NATO is enough.
Yes. But learn on weakness of shengen and euro.
What’s the point if America will be the puppeteer…
When did America get involved ?
yes, it’s time.
Germany isn’t allowed an army… this is their next move
Germany has an Army – has even fought alongside us Brits in Afghanistan
https://www.facebook.com/Bundeswehr
Of course Deutschland has an army!! Why wouldn’t they? :p
No !Nato it is good!
No, NATO is enough. EU has already much power. The example? The Brexit. We, europeans, we not made to give our power away to an international organisation in such dimension, it’s against our freedom and national identities. Solidarity, yes, total control, no.
Actually it was the people that united themselves as one. We were not conquered by EU but our nations freely united . That is the idea for EU
Not the people, the elites. When the europeans vote something about EU, usually their vote is always no, because we are not the United States of Europe, that is against our DNA. And I do not like federalism. EU is already a federalistic project. For me it’s enough. We must be united, yes, but not in a federalistic way.
I like the idea of a European federation or rebublic. There is nothing like a ‘national DNA’. We are all Europeans (even the British ;-))
Yes to an EU army to strive for peace
No to an EU army that will strive for war….
No to the EU army! There is already the European branch of NATO that can act like it.
Of course not! Want us to fight friends before the actual war starts? ;)
no, just a way to coordinate the armies of the meber states, just like EU pretty much does with most civilian domains
Who first put forward this idea of an EU army?, it wasn’t Putin by any chance was it?.
Ahahah! Here we go…! I was waiting for this for months…! NO! They want to impose martial law and then the New World Order, that´s what they want!
Which EU ? Who?
It is time.
No thank you the Eu won’t be around to much longer in its present form back to the eec and no more
What for?…the EU should be dismantled and go back to the ECM, nothing else.
Better late than never.
ΕU is in its last days.It has no external enemy and does not need armies.Only anti-terrorism police is needed and it has plenty but is functioning pretty bad.
Tagip violates daily EEZ and your airspace for…fun threatening your borders or you sleep in your world of peace and….. death in your sleap? You only care for εμφυλιο σαν γνωστοι μαζόχες
It is time for an global army alliance made up advanced,secular democratic countries regardless of geography or race. Most of europe is made up small or micro states never will be able to contribute on large scale for an regional army whereas an global alliance made of japan,Australia,European countries and latin America would be an greater and more solid platform and an better opportunity for technological transfers fir every country’s defense sector.
Yes of course! And the core will be the very successful French-German brigade. In this way will never fight against each other any more!
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
…not …its time to destroy this discusting…German Europe……!!!
NO .. Simply tighten border control, stop being Turkeys bitch, and end the war in Syria .. Or it this aimed at the pathetic claim of the “Russians are coming” if so lets gorw up.
ists time to fight al corrupted politician put them al in jail forever
I don t want the EU to prepare a war. So i don t want an EU army. Any european country has an army strong enough to ensure internal security. Why should we build something bigger?
Europe is an instrument for peace, not for war
European Armed Forces – In accordance with Article 113, 142 and 150 paragraph 3 of the Constitution of the European Union as a federal state, the European Union shall establish European Armed Forces for purposes of defence. Their numerical strength and general organizational structure must be shown in the budget of Union. Apart from defence, the European Armed Forces may be employed only to the extent expressly permitted by Constitution European Federation. http://european-federation.blogspot.com/2015/12/european-armed-forces.html
Complete load of unintelligible tripe written by a Federal EU fantasist, and you don’t need to look any further then the first paragraph to realise that (Martial law involves a little bit more than soldiers protecting property and directing traffic)
And Its quite ironic that the “coat of arms” is based on the UK combined forces insignia considering that is the one country that will never be taking part….
Have you got any military experience? If you do you probably know it can’t work
With England leaving, US withdrawing from NATO, Turkey building alliance with Russia and EU periphery burning… Not a bad idea. But who will be in command and giving orders? Juncker??
Yes after he’s had his first drink at 8.00am
Corey
Si,indiscutiblemente.Europa necesita tener un ejército propio para dar valor a su política exterior y tener una independencia real en las organizaciones internacionales,incluida la OTAN.Ademas de ser más eficientes se racionaria mucho mejor el gasto en armamento. Mejor un ejército fuerte que 27 pequeños.
The time was yesterday! We need to start investing in our military and border protection NOW!
Each country has its own issues. It will try and use this army to its own advantage, sometimes against another member country
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What will they do with those Nations like Ireland who are neutral, ignore them again ?
YES!!!! Why duplicate efforts or have several forces with inadequate capacities, when We can have a common force with adequate capacities?
Because we don’t have the same interests! I rather have to be in my nations army “reserve personnel ” for the rest of my life than having to beg for help from people that can’t find my county on the map and they don’t really care what will happen to my people!
LOL…
It is interesting that the major opposition are members of NATO except Finland and Sweden, who according to British media they want to join the British-led Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF). The EU army is only good if it is independent from NATO and its unethical agendas. But if it is to support NATO then the EU is going in the same unethical wrong direction.
@Julia Hadjikyriacou
You honestly think that an EU army lead by the cu#t and the co#k (Germany and France) with their terrible and violent histories and predilections would be less unethical than NATO?
Yeah right!
Yes, definitely.
There are certainly other issues more urgent to be solved, the objectif of the UNion, it’s functioning together etc. Maybe there should also be a certein time for Member Srares $$$$$
Sorry, i clicked too early; Time for Member STates to reflect whether they want to follow the British example and some others just to be told, that their organisation does not correspond with european principles anymore and that they should take action to rectify this or get out of the Union
Europe needs balls first…
Hmm .. not a good idea, it would inevitably end up being controlled by the stronger countries such as Germany or France. The EU has to realize that it is not a single country and until it is (hopefully never) pushing for an EU army is always going to fail .. look what it took to unite the US, is that what EU citizens want a civil war?
Never! Why the obsession to (AGAIN & again) debate the pros & cons of an EU Army- “clearly” declared by “GIANTS” France, Germany, Italy & Spain as not to be “OUR” objective?
Only a lone ALDE “spear woman” chooses to sharpen her spear in line with other DWARFS like Lithuania, Latvia & Junckers Luxembourg. How can the published statistics of 74% “for” & “18%” against be representative? Some went bonkers?
Junckers “for” motivation typically rests on an inherited inferiority complex- “to show the world”- or? Bad! Are there no other & better options- than his ONE only option?
We have NATO – we don’t need an EU Army.
Le Chris qu’adore suçer du Great American Dick :D Hin t’aime ça hin, te faire mettre par ces attardés mentaux de ricains
R U kidding, people? How could there possibly be a “European Army” if there are no common interests and common foreign policy?…
God no and the Germans want nuclear weapons which they and the japanese are forbidden to have after the war , who is the enemy Russia trade with them instead .
only to remove kebab ;)
An army under who’s control? Brussels? No, thanks.
Brussels should be deleted from the map and EU should be disbanded altogether.
NATO works better than any EU army. It includes not only EU but many other states. It also works because it is primarily a peace keeping organization not an army. Is better each country to have their own armies but all armies to work together as a world police in peacekeeping rather than self-interest. Armies would be used in self interest.
But if you really wanna make an army they all better be Christian and march to Istanbul to retake Constantinopole.
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
Of course it should…
Why? Only five of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 28 member countries last year met the alliance goal of spending at least 2% of their gross domestic product on defense. Better increase spending to 2% of GDP
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The stupidest of stupid idea’s.
Clearly some people have forgotten what happened the last time a bunch of crazed Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe were allowed to militarise.
Why? What happened?
Dionìs KC
Do you really not know ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KG74s4DnRw&list=PL84844758FCEF1A25
when was the last time half a billion of europeans voted a parliament to represent them all?? because sure as hell it didn’t happen in the third reich.
Ivan Burrows only seen the first two parts of the film and it says it clear that Nazis stoped the communists take hold of powerhouse of Europe then 1933 the powerhouse of the world
Had the communists prevailed over Nazis I’m sure u know it would have been a very different western world that we leave in today
Nobody is denying who the Nazis are but there was a very big good out of the evil
Lonzo Bildelberg
It never ceases to amaze me how little you EU fanatics actually know about your history.
The Nazi party gained 11 million votes in 1932 and the German people made Hitler chancellor, only 42% of EU Europeans voted for your parliament in 2014 with a 1/3 of those voting for anti EU MEPS. Hardly a resounding love for the EU.
How many votes did your president Juncker get ?, does that mean he more like Stalin than Hitler ?
The European Parliament does not make law as in a democracy, it merely the rubber stamping department of the unelected European Politburo.
The EU institutions have more in common with dictatorships than any democracy.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2016/01/83847/
Lonzo Bildelberg
Half a billion voted for the European Parliament ? lol, which incidentally they have never been asked if they wanted.
http://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2014/news/it-s-official-last-eu-election-had-lowest-ever-turnout/
Lefter Isuf Gjura
With just a little tweaking this could have been made in Brussels.
(Germans are not allowed to watch by law, I wonder why ?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHs2coAzLJ8
Lefter Isuf Gjura :
You consider the Brussels created migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis and the misery heaped onto millions of people across the EU to be ‘good’ ?
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=156
an army at the commands of thugs like Merkel or Junker? worst idea ever.
Never. Communism wihout power is funny and stupid. See at drunk Juncker and Shultz or stupid gender ideology and “equality” ideology. Communism with power is dangerous. Communism always has consequences as terror and millions of victims.
Yes, if it’s regulated on EU level. But it will be almost impossible to be efficient.
No yet ..
Only if the go out of NATO!!!
we have NATO, right? 4
NATO is not supporting EU’s interests but US’s interests!
wooooow. so germany in eu is one thing, in nato, another?
No, never. The EU is not a country.
It is time to cut military expenses for lack of external enemies.Only Turkey is threatening EUs FRONTIERS in Greece and has occupational force of 40.000 troops in EU s member Cyprus.There is need only for security police to control terrorism which is the only threat.
Ever heard of Rússia?
Ever heard a threat to EU FROM RUSSIA .OF COURSE NOT BUT YOU LIKE TO IMAGINE
Only Turkey is threatening borders and EU has no danger? That’s delusional. Turkey is the one who’s trying to keep Europe clear of mass immigration and border security from the middle east. And let me kindly remind you that it was Greek Cyrpiots who voted no for Annan plan.
Anan plan was a turkish inspired plan which left the possibility open for Turkey to first influence all Cyprus decisions in its own interests and then to overrun the whole island. Turkey is an imperialist state with visions of invading any territory within its reach and eventually the whole of Europe through Islamic expansion
Of course it was a big No to anan plan as our country will never be a state of turkey and that’s what anan plan was all about to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. We are Europeans not Turks!! Turkey already invaded Cyprus with 40.000 troops remaining in Cyprus and it’s illegally occupying the northern part of Cyprus against all international laws and regulations!
Turkey is an imperialist state with invasion fantasy. So Greece is not? Implying slavic Macedonians are Hellens, and chasing Megali Idea. Sorry guys our govts. are equally worse. Greece was forcing monoculturism in Cyprus with violent ways and Turks seized their cultural relatives, that’s what happened. And Annan plan was something democratic. The otherwise of Annan plan is a whole Greek Cypriot ruled Cyprus which doesn’t sound so democratic to me. We can discuss this until morning so I’m going to stop and wish you kalinixta.
No Never !
Of course it’s time! EU army is long overdue as EU needs a strong army to voice its power in this messed up world
That’s just an attempt of Germany to influence a hypothetical European army directly, since Germany is not allowed to have an army greater than a certain number (WWII)
ABSOLUTELY, EU will never be complete until their own army!!!
spend the money for people life not in killing machines
funny you have the flag of cyprus as profile pic, i can’t think of a better place where EU forces would be able to improve the situation. Especially now that the UK is fucking off, who knows what happens to their presense on the Cyprus isle
Yes! And it’s long overdue
The EU would only use it to force Europeans to accept globalist ideology. Every corrupted empire in history recruited mercenaries to keep power. Unfortunately as each month goes by it feels more true. The EU is not representing Europeans but global business and global elite.
actually the EU has pushed legislation to protect workers, which is the very opposite of what global business likes
EU has abolished major work achivements in working conditions and wages and pensions in favor of big interests and corrupt elite
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
PS. if NATO is the defence mechanism then that automatically includes the UK armed forces in the defence of europe
80 percent expenses to be borne by Germany rest all take the free ride.
About time too & #Malta should support it
You barely have EU!
Defenetly yes!
Actually the EU turned a blind eye to a million plus migrants the German government encouraged to come to Germany breaking all EU regulations in the process. The German government even cited a need for workers as a justification. Big business love cheap labour.
They also turned a blind eye to what some of those migrants did to the German women . They even turned a blind eye to the fact that some of them went and killed other Europeans in terrorist attacks. How can you have a cohesive EU when one woman decides to let in millions of people without any consultation with other members. . Then she demands other countries take them . She then does a deal , without any consultation, with Turkey to get her out of the mess and promises them free movement in the EU. All of this chaos because she wants to appear to be a saint before the next election. Can you imagine what she will do with an army at her command ?
Definitely yes. The current European Security and Defence Policy unit of the EU needs to be expanded and transformed into a all professional million personnel EU Defence Force
Yeah, we’ve already had one in Europe – during the WW 2….. With Merkel and Schultz humiliating and threatening Poland… Never again.
It’s more than time.
Yep. But it has to come along a comprehensive EU foreign policy.
Yes, Europe should have an INDEPENDENT, EUROPEAN military force all by itself, however, it should be wise and restrained enough to never use it for hegemonic purposes, like SOME OTHER BACKWARD primitive apes do. If Europe finally has its own army, it should only be used for defensive and peaceful purposes, never again for all those arrogant escapades on the continent and in the world as Europe is, alas, infamous for from history. Peace
In order to back your soft power you need hard power too. Unless bullies know that they’ll get hammered down they’ll always be bullies.
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The EU is the biggest bully of them all & you want to give them an army ? madness.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2016/01/83847/
What has the Dutch Ukraine -EU AA ref got anything to do with bullying or the EU army ? An advisory ref with a turnout of 32 % ? Gimme a break troll, though I must admit an answer from the infamous Ivan is quite the honour.
Next time u should be critical of the UK army and it’s existence, no longer is it the business of the English, or wherever else you come from, what the EU does.
NO! I don´t want my children fighting for the global elite! NO, NO, NO!!!! Plus, EU is going to fall like a sand castle…We have Brexit already, and if Le Pen wins, France will exit too…And this´s the begining…Bullshit to EU! They have been leading us to misery, poverty, etc…They have been playing the banks cartel game all the time long…NO!!!
each EU member has an army – all it needs is a new command structure and a job/control/transparency description agreed upon. Could result in great savings and possible less corruption on purchases.
Hell NO!
Just cut to zero military expenses and start spending those money for real problems
That’s utterly stupid.
Please, tell us why European states should spend money on military when we have NATO, which is already asking for much more money than it should. Are you threatened by any other country? Or have we problems with migration, employment, social security, demography and welfare state? Please, let me know if your priority is bombing some other state for the sake of doing it
The defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
If you think europe does not need defence then you have obviously not appreciated the continuous and continuing state of peace in europe and around the world generally has enjoyed derived directly from NATO.
What NATO is asking is very reasonable – it’s asking for states to help in their own defence – and in return NATO guarantees to defend such nations with the might of all the member nations- one of which as mentioned is the most powerful on earth.
State of peace […] derived directly from NATO? What are you talking about? Syria? Or Libya? Afghanistan and it’s weapon of mass destruction? Please
Go in Ukraine or Crimea and ask people from there if they want cuts in the military. So long you have neighbours who want to rebuild empires (Putin,Erdogan) and unstable countries as in north Africa you cannot afford the luxury of not having an army. For example Italy exists because it has an army to defend its teritory
Anastasia QkaGeorge DimopoulosEleni Panagakou idU i APorIa
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
.
Change the word Germany for EU in this extract and you have your answer.
‘Unite all Germans into one nation re-arm Germany’
Mein Kampf – 1925
Time to come into the 21st century, my troll friend.
You’ve been in the 1940s cave for several years now. It’s ok.
Yes, It could be one of the most insurance against wars. Of course it should be set also a real European foreign minister.
.
What happens when fanatics with one flag & a plan to unite Europe achieve their goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy1kOwUyEsM
Unfortunately the actual solution for having a foreign policy commissioner doesn’t work. I think that is better to have a council of foreign ministers, which to apoint a representative.
YES SIM
No.
You keep asking and I keep saying no! It cant even manage a currency responsibly so why trust it with an army? Ireland had an army controlled remotely for 800 years by people with no cultural appreciation or knowledge of the country. Do you think we re going to sign up for another? The Germans knew nothing despite besserwisserei about the financial crisis in Ireland and didnt want to know. Ireland will never accept the jackboots of a foreign army again.
Totally. I think even Eurosceptics should agree on that. Denying cooperation in other areas has its arguments, but not when it comes to common EU defence policy
Defence from whom? Germany or USA the biggest enemies of real EU?
Russia and Turkey.
Without a complete and effective defence system EU will be open to the threats of every tyrant in the area such as Erdogan. Being intimidated by such tyrants EU loses its credibility and as a result earns the contempt of its members who will seek security within their national borders after exiting the EU. Lack of EU defence will signal its downfall
This whole debate on ‘defense’ is sickening. I say: the less we spend, the better we will be in the longer term. I think Einstein had a great quote on that: “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
NATO Whit out US.
NATO Whit Rasien.
No, it would benefit no one and who would die for the union… This is a pathetic topic
Well we all know Germany will control the EU army/4th Reich.
It’s long due.
According to Nick Cleg that’s dangerous scaremongering, so coming from the most pro EU political figure in U.K. Politics I would have to agree…
We share the same territory, we have the same threats and we suppose to have the same security goals,hence the European army is a necessity. In case of war we must be united, so none restrains from the effort because the war is to at its border. NATO it is a partial solution because it doesn’t pay for the armies from the Eastern Europe who are poorer, but more exposed at external aggression. For example Netherlands spend 10 billion $ in military expenditures while Latvia who has a flat field between them and Russia, spend 250 millions. If Russia attacks Latvia,Netherland has to intervene because it is in NATO, but its investment in military was not done for Latvia, and it could be of little help (due to distance, technology etc), and Netherland will lose more men in the war. A better defended Latvia will discourage a Russian intervention and Netherland will not fight in the war. Now too much is invested where is not need (Western Europe) it and little is invested where is need it (Eastern Europe)
Just answer one question please. Who will lead that army then. Army helps nothing without capable and clear leadership.
Hell Not at all.
Debating Europe who is your master.
Yes.
its time to put forever in jail al corrupted politicians of EU states
Anything to unite us will be good.
No way. Never with Germany.
What would you feel like if I said “Never with poor Portugal”? What is this? ENOUGH with this last century non-sense. This is 2000! No nationalism is welcome, nationalism is old, stinky and toxic. EU means European UNION, not Division. Germany is nothing more and nothing less than all the other nations of Europe and Member States of the Union. Always with Germany! And always with the other 26 Member States, yours comprehended! And also always with all the other European States which will join our huge, unprecendented project of unity, peace and prosperity.
Yes, it is high time for such an army!
Yes to an EU army, it will be another step to unite our citizens and our intensions. Yes to an EU army also part of NATO. Why do the USA or Canada have a united army while for us there are 27 different, money-sucking, semi-authonomous, not well organised bodies? Do we talk about South Carolina army, Nebraska army, California Republic army, Saskatchewan? Not even thinkable, right? So why are we still back to decades ago, with a Slovenian army, a Swedish army, a Spanish army?Let’s face reality, it would be a disaster to control all this mess if a real threat came to our door. We must stand together to be strong and free, as our allies are and have been for a long time now. STOP INDIVIDUALISM OF NATIONS INSIDE EU, we need a country, this is not 1900.
We do not need one big country at all.
Excuse me maybe i’m wrong, but aren’t you from Leeds, in England, in United Kingdom, soon-to-be out of EU? If that is the case, why do you use WE and why should your opinion count?
Anyway, this is a dialogue and i am open to everyone’s opinion, wether you’re in or out of the Union, IF it is built on something. So, maybe you want to give a reason to your comment to why the European Union shouldn’t be a whatever federation, confederation, association kind of united country?
I will tell you a reason. British army is the best in the world FACT. Look at the standards of military in EU member states, there shiiiit the standard will drop and look at the Danish army if it rains they go home the dutch the Austrians. conscript’s and like the funding the UK gives to pay for people in other countries we would be paying for these fuckers. Happy we are leaving the corrupt united states of Europe. Europe is lost it will be the united states of islam soon, your all blinkered and cant see whats right in front of you. A war is commng and all in the name of islam
??♂️
🤦🏼♂️
I don’t know, maybe because when e.g. Greece spent for its army the NATO 2% contribution, we got molested by the rest of EU for that?
Unless, you realized when it really matters Europe is divided….
No, NATO is already enough.
Yes, it is
Why?
I really do not belive in this kind of vision.
Yes , hurry,because ,for now,only have, europeans jihadists paramilitary units, this is a big threat for security.
SI ,YES,, It is the Time……
Si. Es necesario y urgente disponer de un ejército Europeo.
Please no
EFAF=European Federal Armed Forces
Would have been nice but the union is not as United as it should for that
Ειναι καιρος να διαλυθη αυτη η ενωση που διοικουν υποκριτες που καμια σχεση εχουν με δημοκρατια ισονομια ισοπολιτεια
Where are our enemies? Between Greece and the Black Sea, thats the strecht to protect. And don’t tickle Russia because now we have a common enemy.
First fix where Europe’s own citizens come from. Who is going to take a stand against the huge rise in illegal migration with either fake passports or with duplicate (ID Fraud) passports that are readily available from Hungary, Poland and Bulgaria. The problem in Britain is that we don’t know where most people from the EU are actually from as there are just so many fake and duplicate ID and passports for these people. The British system works on the assumption that if the documents are legal then so is the person, problem is for the last 4 years most illegal workers are getting real documents by using the details of real people with and/or without permission of the real person. So really checking documents without checking to see if the person is actually resident in more than one country is a waste of time, but in an age where we are looking for cheap answers we will never stop the avalanche of undocumented people working and living, getting finance and creating havoc with assumed identities. If in doubt then go to Ukraine in the Oblasts of Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk and in the villages and towns as see where more then 70% of the citizens have acquired duplicate ID’s to work in Europe, and forget the police and Frontex – they just couldn’t be bothered.
Yes, a new Europe, a new EU Government and Parliament, lobbies out, corruption out, same taxes, same rights, one common army, no more secret commisions.
Absolutely not!
Absolutely not! 1) IT army is voluntary. 2) who would fight for another country? 3) who decide to fight who and how many soldiers involve in a conflict? Germany – France- Italy? EU IS NOT UNITED AND WON’T BE NEVER UNITED.
Yes!!
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
it’s time for peace.
eu army ??? here frontex cannot ceep the boards safe from islam cause they work 8 hrs only ….. imagine to have army ….hahahaha
Εvery EU country has an army although only Greece and Cyprus have external threats from Turkey a member of NATO and candidate member of EU!!!!!.So a joint force from existing armies for use against EUs threats is possible.This move will eliminate member countries armies to minimum number for use in internal emergency situations.Overall number of armed forces on EU wil be significantly cut and preformance improved very much.
No. EU is getting tyrannical and this could be a danger to its people. Leadership of the EU has a lot to answer for. They have enabled terrorism and crime to blossom and endangered their own people. They need to be in jail. Then we could talk about army.
Bot alert!
Ιt is, but member countries have conflicting goals and security issues that are indifferent to some members
Yes, it’s time for EU army and make serious steps towards European Federation or United States of Europe.
No. Europe is not North America. A united states here cannot work. The cultural differences on pretty much all levels are so large it would just be awkward. Europe will never be a country, deal with it.
At a time where so many people feel disenfranchised, ignored an steamrolled by out of touch beurocrats in Brussels, further stripping away national sovereignty and further integration into a synthetic state is not the right way to go.
Victor Kristiansson We’ll see. Anyway, I’m one of the many who will step forward for a a stronger and more United Europe, even USE.
Stop lingering on the 20th century, Victor Kristiansson! We’ve built a union because we came to the conclusion that we have more in common than what sets us apart! Of course we’ll never be a country, Europe has a lot of regional idiosyncracies, but I believe that is what makes us stronger!
Not that for the time being, but discussion could go on. In general, I am pro military forces, being global rather regional, like NATO, UN peace keepers to avoid the bias. To improve the same, and devote EU budged money for the social pillar. Against additional militarisation, it can just provoke the conflicts. It costs, but the experience of the last decades shows the applications mainly for peace keeping purposes.
Some countries would want to settle old scores with foes (Greece – Turkey relations come often close to confrontation). Why should a Dutchman have to fight a war which is not a collective issue concerning strictly two old foes?
So what you suggest is that if we don’t have an EU army Greece will go to war with Turkey? First of all it makes no sense, second of all both are NATO members and whoever is the attacked one will be supported by NATO, and last but not least: Greece is in the Eurozone and Eurozone countries will do everything to make the currency as stable as possible so they will support Greece.
So this becomes a collective issue anyway
While I can understand this solidarity argument about the eurozone (costing just money), I cannot even imagine having to deal with divisive situations such as a military confrontation between Greece and Turkey (which has been averted mainly by [and thanks to] ol’ Uncle Sam’s intervening). It just ain’t as simple as it seems. There ‘s a lot of things at stake, more than a dislike for Erdogan. There are interests involved, huge arms deals, Russia is just around the corner. Countries will be divided. All the time there will be exclusion prerogatives put forward by countries not comfortable with (or interested in) such and such a confrontation. To replace NATO with an alternative organisation will be risky and it will cause trouble rather than solve problems. As I said, with America out of the way, countries might be tempted to use the new organisation to their advantage in terms of security
You make me laugh, main problem of NATO is underfunding cause only 5 nations pay what it is agreed (Germany pay only 60% what it should) but we will create another army to fix that problem (maybe we can set the level of payments it of the half of nato agreement ) that way for the new army it will seems that everything is ok)
Maybe its time for no armies at all
We are on the right track with the integration of Romanian brigade in Bundeswehr. We need an Rapid Response Task force. Now.
Leaded by what country?
An army that is European will bring young people together from across Europe with a common goal and instill in them a sense of being European that doesn’t exist today. It is consequently critical to a European future that there be an European army.
A common goal to kill savage Russians. How nice. Sign me up!
There is no European identity this won’t save Europe. How about working on promoting some more direct forms of governance participation this would also bring people together in a common purpose.
Exactly!!
Joerg Sp – Your common goal, not mine. No need to be a warmonger. The goals of the army are to be determined by the European Parliament. And just because you say something doesn’t make it true: that’s the way of Trump and his type. There is without question an European identity; it is very young, and may never reach adulthood, but it exists.
Maybe a peace keeping small army could be useful
But never against other people..never Afghanistan , Africa etc.. only self defence..
That’s what they said, when they allowed German army. Now they are defending our freedoms all over the world. I feel incredibly secure now.
well said,
is time to get out from this eu cause is germans europe ?? thats the right question !!!!!!
Fuck that shit
No. Most of EU members are Nato members and this is more than enough. Keeping in mind EU leadership and it’s policy, Europe is more safe under NATO wing led by the USA.
Only moroons and retards have ‘army’. Peoples with no brain, gangsters have army. Army is good just for distruction, entire country distruction, like we know yet …
Depends on which place on Earth your country is. For example we are always threatened by Turkey and the EU won’t support us on diplomatic level because the weaponry we buy are French and German. So I think it is a little bit more complicated than that.
Mathieu, qui a osé te piquer LE projet de ta vie ??? ;)
Je leur ai donné l’idée ;)
Ah je savais qu’il y avait une inspiration “Mathieu Carpentier” dans cette histoire ;)
ΝΟ ΕΕ does not need to fight for German interests nor for the NWO.
Yes. The task of such a common army to be clearly defined as not for foreign assignments with options for catastrophe relief. Would save each EU member lots of money in Admin and acquisition of material. Who are National armies within the EU defending against? Who are the enemies? Qui bono?
That’s nice as an idea. The point is, who will command such army? The diplomatic agenda is different for each country and maybe this kind of army, might not be as efficient in protecting the peripheral eu countries meaning their personal rights and land against adversaries. And yes, I’m talking about the approach Germany has chosen ,supporting with her absence, Turkey’s offensive strategy and the occupation of Cyprus
We need less militarism and confrontation in this world and not more, we need to dismantle the NATO and forget about any kind of further aggressive posturing. The environmental threat is the most important one. Also social stratification and increasing divides across and between countries poison our European society. This should be our priorities not some kind of false security through fostering a second cold war.
With such an irresponsible EU-leadership? No way, never.
Europe doesn’t need another major financial parasite. What it need is less hoplophobia. Unfortunately, it’s the other way they are pretty eager to do the things.
Yes! Russa and The Usa are going crazy.
Who is going to attack Europe? Or is it already happening? Do not you see alien aggressive people in your streets? You do not need an army but intellect and firmness. Otherwise, your country with its culture will disappear and you even will not notice it.
Tell that to our Turkish friends who invade every second day our national borders
Petros Papadimas I would not rely on Germans on the threat of Turkey or Russia. I would rather be afraid of the German army. The Islamization of Germany and France deepens.
Armies aren’t good? I wonder what are you going to do if one day ISIS will knock your door! If stupidity could be painfull
Armies aren’t good? I wonder what are you going to do if one day ISIS will knock your door! If stupidity could be painfull
For self-defence only!
Before ii is necessary writing and accepting a Federal European Constitution. Actual EU is not a good solution, too different national condition
Do you need an army to subdue Eastern Europe?
Yes……It’s time for a Giant European Army also with Federal nuclear power ..We must defend our People….
Yes, bomb everything
Only after the clear definition of shared values and goals among all the Nations in the EU. Only after the election of a federal government and a federal President directly voted by all the citizens of the Union.
Let let Russia join EU.?
Fuck off we will never be part of your fucking eu army run by bunch corrupt cunts and vile repugnant eussr run fuhrer Merkel
No ! Because has NATO and that’s a defense alliance for EU and friends..
We need secured borders and European Army ASAP
A united Europe can work efficiently with National Armys, a disentegrated Europe will need a Euroarmy to enforce unpopular political agenda .. what is the right thing to do?
An EU Army would be a good thing!
a good thing to attack countries sovereignity if they refuse to play along with brussells or germany or france stupid/anti-democratic policies?
A good way to build a stronger European identity. An Army is not an attack on other countries, but a defensive option. France and Germany have strong national armies anyway, and Brussels is not a bogey man! However, this thread should be about how best to proceed in creating a viable and feasible EU Army, not about critics against “stupid/anti-democratic policies”.
If we think who protects EU today, then it is not really the national armies. We heavily depend on NATO, which though we should continue participating (as EU, not as individual countries), we should be able to defend EU without any real external dependence, as today, from NATO,
Yet special concerns should rule the externals borders of EU and this army will never replace local armies. Even though to proceed with a common army we should first have solved the more substantial questions of what kind of Union we want/need and for what purpose: it is highly time (even passed time) to move forward to a real Federation of people (not states!).
The Hague Invasion Act was written, by AmeriKKKans, as a threat to European countries and members of the International court to protect their mass murders and war criminals from justice. It would make sense to have an European Army, but with the enemy already sleeping inside of Europe in their military bases and torture chambers spread in the continent, what good will it do, if we still play the role of vassals with a Trojan horse?
never under German
Never
You’re crazy… Never.
It’s time to dismantle EU instead :)
More armies? Better ambassadors, even better EU psychologists specialized in Violence
I am afraid Brussel would use it to punish disobediant countries.
Why… So the rich can get richer and the poor dead??? Read this very carefully bitch. FUCK YOU!!!
Send the motherfuckers back from where they came from and get a fuck out of their land. Like it used to. But I guess is too late now, is it!!!
Nope…
EU are in the hands of the USA, and before EU can deal its own problems, commun defense forces are out of the question…
No !!!! Never !!!! The EU no longer serves a purpose !
Y E S
never in a million years…..and more i would like to know why Germany is allowed to have an army again??????
Why not? I dont think germans want to conquer europe again.
No, they’ve done that already Sergi Llussà Baudilio – too bad you haven’t noticed…
We have fought the german dogs for a century and now we have give them the continent on a silver plate.
GERMANY is already incorporing foreign regiment in it’s army.
Better with the Russians than with the germans.
Ναι
YES…..***may be is too late …..
Military power is strongly connected with Diplomacy. We don’t have a common diplomacy yet SO, we wan create a European DEFENSIVE army and let countries have their own small armies that they can use freely. for foreign issues.
Defintely YES !! Till now only UK was opposing, but now we can do it
Europe do not need an army but an strong police, information /spyonage agency. Our enemies are inside.
Of course. It is almost to late for the EU to grow up.
If we become part of an EU army… who will be in control of our CASD?
…of course not ….we dont need army to destroy …other countries ..and then to create terrorists…dont forget who destroyed so many countries…especially Syria stop bombing innocent people…infants …no european army…
How about solving the Eurocrisis first? Ohhh , there are Euros for a European army you say? So Greece spending 2% of its budget as per NATO instructions was not so bad???? Well, then, if Greece leads that army….We have paid for it after all
no need yet, we (still) have NATO
that sounds like a self-revealingly stupid answer
Sì
Yes, si, oui… Along with all the necessary security apparatus, such as a CIA like organization, it is extremely necessary to have proper intel services.
no, never!!!!!!!!!!!
first put al corrupted politicians in Jail forever
what does that have to do with defending EU borders?
So Merkel will finance that one like she did NATO?
So Merkel will finance that one like she did NATO?
So Merkel will finance that one like she did NATO?
Your poll is complicated to the point of being silly … So, there.
Not until there is a unified political command/executive. Otherwise, it is unrealistic.
With Trump, Brexit and Putin, the EU countries get more vulnerable. Who knows what will happen! Brexit breaks the balance of forces in Europe. I believe the EU has to be prepared to defend the EU countries.
Yes! A united EU army, with free enrolment from all countries. It could be phased-in across a couple of decades while national armies are phased-out. With UK’s departure, English becomes a perfectly fitting neutral lingua franca for command. This would make Euorope more independent from NATO and enable a better resources allocation
There is no need of army! Especially not a common European one!
Yes but outside NATO’s ombrella! Rather, firstly we should get rid of NATO and then create a European army!
There is no EU army when there is no EU integration
Absolutely! An army needs political legitimation.
NATO = CRIMINELS
end nato now. our enemy numero 1 is the usa occupation of europe.
And whom is it supposed to deter? :) The true enemy of Europe is within.
You are so right! We need to sort the far right before they get out of hand.
It wasn’t the far right rampaging in Hamburg recently,burning cars and shops,was it :)
I’m scared of both…
António Espadaneira The liberal leftists are explicitly more radicalized :)
Michail Panchev i agree with you. They are of little help to hide rightwing extremism thou. Both sides are preaty crazy if you ask me.
Yes but not within NATO’s umbrella! The EU should quit from NATO and get back its independence!
EU and NATO are seperate entities. not all EU countries are in NATO. and not all NATO countries are in EU.
Ēriks Gasiņš: so what?!? This doesn’t change to situation. It is self-evident that the European countries are not free to decide their foreign policy and this is clearly link to NATO and the American presence in Europe. Who else has so many military basis in Europe, despite not being part of this continent?
Marco Bianchi
Of course European countries are free to decide their foreign policy, they won’t be if Brussels takes over.
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be made here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be done here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
I have my own state, I don’t any EU state nor I want EU to decide for my state. The EU has done a very poor job up intil now. Time to leave it.
José Bessa da Silva: the poor outcome is precisely caused by the fact that there is not a real government. Each state things just about itself and this is what is killing the EU!
Yes! 27 ineffective and costly defense forces can’t be justified
Yes, but under the auspices of Parliament.
You just know that if the EU had an Army they would be using it to force migrants in to Hungry rather then stopping migrants from crossing the sea.
Yes exactly. Every soldier would adopt one refugee and he would live side by side with him. Or how u imagine they would do it?
Like the Germans did it in WW II force, invasion it’s simple don’t you think só??
Stephen J Gorog The Germans didn’t start WW2 because it was the Nazi’s who did that and many German’s were murdered by the Nazi’s
yes… against islam invasion
there is no independence just interdependence.
It’s time to create a peace keeping and security assurance force in Europe.
Joint missions envolving different member states yes, but a not a common army. It’s too soon for that.
Independant EU army only! Not dominatet by the USA!
YEEES!!!
And European Border Guards.
Europa debe tener su propio ejército, sino será un paria entre las Naciones, y su papel no es ese ni tampoco Europa ha llegado hasta aquí para ser una paria. Además tiene mucho que defender.
No unicamente su proprio ejercito pero tambien sus proprios administrationes incluido una constitution de base .
Sin esos bases fundamentales yo me pregunto hasta donde Europa va ha llegar .
What are we waiting for?
(1) The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union. (2) In addition, EU army would disrupt the current balance of military power in the world, which would be unacceptable for current powers and would bring various consequences.
Yes. There is no doubt in my mind that we need to ensure that we have the capacity to protect what we have built.
I’m pro Europe but an EU army? Get stuffed!
Are you British?
Yeah
I’ve heard this question asked time and time again, but very little on what this proposed army would entail. Is it just a fancy way of saying increased co-operation between nation states’ militaries or an amalgamation of all the said armed forces into one single bloc? And if the latter, how is it to be managed? How will the various language barriers be overcome? I really need more information on the proposal before I can truthfully answer yes or no to this question.
Well what does an army do? How about english? Many armed forces already use it because dadumm Nato..
All these questions dont realy matter because they are just to be filled in. What does matter is that we need an EU army.
I’m fully aware of what an army does. I would simply like more information on the proposal.
Nathan Cornfield then you agree that we need an army but are unsure of how to fill it in.
Yes, if it is to be done, it should be done right.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time it is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on it’s own legs with it’s head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels.
United We Are Stronger
No!
Definitely! Long due for such a powerful Union not to have a really strong army
https://youtu.be/3LfrRx5Ct-U
Yes but in no way used by EU leaders against member states!!
Ahah poor child, are you born yesterday?
The last eu army was called Wehrmacht.
Ignorance, what a bless!
Hmm, “ignorance “?? Fast assumption , even though you may be right!!! Child???? Long time ago!!!! Always trying to be pozitiv but I fő understand
“wars dont make one come great”
We already had one, was called WEHRMACHT.
It didn’t turn out very well for democracy.
Federation of free states. Never an union.
A federation of free states is literally a union :-D
Sorry confederation. Beside that. There are several layers of central government interference.
I don’t think europe is ready for a union so thight. Even if eu officials are pushing in that direction.
Maybe in fifty years, assuming that a pro eu generation will rise and eu iwon’t alienate itself from all the south of the continent.
Beside that, may the europe have a short life.
.
What would Brussels do with the neutral Nations, ‘force’ them to take part ?
Germany in charge of the military capacity of 27 countries is a recipe for disaster.
Just answer one question : who will decide what this army does? Who gives the leadership?
.
It will have an EU flag slapped on it but it will be owned by & run for Berlin.
UK won’t get a say on the matter now, so will have to sit on the sidelines and accept whatever the EU does. However can’t see countries like Ireland agreeing to this, so can’t see it happening
No. It is time for Germany Limited Liability Company to stop pretending to be a nation with a Constitution, for Merkel and hohorts to stop robbing nations and stealing their sovereignty… and stop excessive spending of the EE that is intent on enslaving the people.
The Lisbon Treaty already gave us an EU army, (I dont think this was a good idea either) but the real question is whether to dismantle NATO.
No. It wouldn’t get past Ireland and Austria, even if it worked for Sweden and Finland. Until the issue of strictly neutral countries is resolved, this issue cannot be touched.
yes and without the UK
Good luck with that.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on its own legs with its head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels due to United we are Stronger.
Yes, should have already had one
No, and I really wish that people who want deeper EU integration realise how counterproductive the very term ‘EU army’ is. The EU will always have its proud nation states whether people like it or not and what the EU needs is a closer military alliance built on top of the existing EU structures that allows flexible opt outs for those countries that wish to retain their neutrality. An EU army will be commanded by whome, Junker? Let’s not be ridiculous and let us work on what already exists. That is how the EU will survive into the future.
No, it is time for Departugal.
Since 1954.
Yes for Save Money and 2019 you Must Vote Euroepan Federalist PArties
Is time to rethink europe and break With that ones that use eu for their dar agendas
Dstk
Dark*
No!!! No!!!!! Thank you but nooooo!
Yes. Long overdue
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
I prefer NATO to a more Russian friendly EU Army led by Germany.
I am of the opinion that we need a strong EU army because we have plenty of enemies. To the East from different religious parties and from the West the wicked capitalism!
Your enemies are not my enemies. The EU is profoundly corrupt. I’m not willing to give power to the mafia installed in Brussels nor to befoe friends thanks to foreign problem. My country’s only enemy to the east is spain.
I am speaking for all Europe not specifically for my country (for instance Greece)… If we want to have a unique and completely union then the enemies are same for all of us… Yes, your enemy is Spain but both of you are in Europe… You have more to earn than to divide…
I just love the baseless accusations of the EU being “profoundly corrupt”. Any EU Member State on its own is far more corrupt than the EU which has very rigid transparency protocols in place.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Yes. And everybody out of NATO.
There are so many subjects to deal over time but security and defence is always a must in a more wilder world with wars and enemies.
Army for collapsing EU ?
under German power? not thanks. NEVER
Take care of your falling apart country instead…
Yes!!
And FREE north part of Cyprus right away as the island is European Soil but north part is under occupation by Turkish troops.
no way
Yes, because the EU is econimic giant, but dwarf in military security. Europe must defence itself against foreign enemies and be a big political player in the world.
no fekin way
To fight who?
No (:-( kidding?) * NO
Nope
Yes.We already discussed the EU Army subject.
Yes and dump NATO.
If you ‘are trying to convince anyone,
you ‘ll be disappointed , and the military is very expensive , disband the NATO out from an EU ‘s army, would be better and, we should also remember that, not everybodys’ citizens, friends as well as enemies, desire an American policeman around.
The EU army must be neural from the NATO, if yes, I ‘ll agree the same too , otherwise I’ll rescind.
I concur. Hopefully the EU army will then invade Russia & turn its territory into an EU colony.
YES !!!!
it should not be because of Brexit it should have happened right in the beginning and should be enlarged as the EU grows. The Brussel Politions will not defend the people they will hide behind the people.
Same question once again? What’s the purpose?
of course we should have an EU army. Even an European army including other European countries who want to participate. A new sort of NATO alliance of purely European countries.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Of course. Less dependance on NATO and US and to get defense spending more efficient.
May I ask against who??? Someone please answer me this question!!!
Putin, Erdogan, terrorists, just to name a few. Also, we would stop relying on the U.S. for our defense. Is it fair that only 5 out of the 29 members pay their due while the rest enjoy the benefits of the alliance without actual contribution. These are the U.S. and the states bordering Russia. When is Europe gonna understand that yesterday it was Georgia, today it’s Ukraine, therefore tomorrow it could be central Europe!
Already the enemy is at the gate of EU… And a lot of them are in!
yes, there should be an EU army. Against who? Every country has an army so EU has to have one if we are to see some kind of confederation in the near future.
If this EU army can defend us from Great Britain and AmeriKKKa and it also has a banking system to maintaing stability in Europe without sacrificing the lives and sovereignty of Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Greece and other small, less important countries, the way NATO is doing to satisfy AmeriKKKa, this could be an improvement.
To answer correctly you need to have a real European approach and not just wanting Europe for the benefits only. You see the borders of Europe are not threatened by … Russia only.
Europeans are today concerned for Krimea and Ukraine … a non EU member BUT keep a blind eye on the occupation of EUROPEAN territory … there in CYPRUS!
EU Army with Polish and Hungarian soldiers, reallyß
An army controlled by the bEUraucrats? No thanks
haha, what is your name <
I’m an American and I think it’s a great idea for the EU to have an army because I think the EU should not depend on the US army due to the instability of our political system. The US political system seems to be going way off track in recent years. Basically we only have two parties and one of the two parties(the Republican party) has become extreme and very disruptive.
Considering the Eu’s current political leanings and involvements, I strongly disagree. Think about their permanent illegal buildings in Israel, and the UN peace corps raling children in Africa, whom they are supposed to protect.
Those are terrible incidents but the US totally funds and supports Israel’s military in suppressing the Palestinians and the Israeli human rights violations. The EU needs some protection against the aggression of the Russian army. Look at the Crimean takeover and military aggression in Ukraine. Trump is opposed to Western Europe and supports the authoritarian dictatorships of Russia and Turkey, as well as, the rolling back of democratic laws in Poland and other East European countries. There’s a rise of populism, fascism, nationalism, etc. in the world today that is very scary. The Western European legacy of democracy, human rights, rule of law, and freedom needs to be preserved in the face of growing authoritarian dictatorships like Putin Erdogan, and Trump.
The EU bureaucrats have wanted their own army since the Lisbon Treaty 2009. The militarisation of europe was written all over that wretched treaty. They’ll use any excuse to get their army and if Russia fits their purpose, they’ll use it. This is all about the slow and steady dismantling of sovereign nation states and the creation of a superstate. No thanks to either proposition. #NoSuperState #NoEUArmy
No way.
It should have been created since the first idea came to light.
Why not, we must have our defense and we leave NATO which is not our defense, so we must form the Western European Union ,and after the European political union,but we must finish the European Economy conclusion
Absolutely it’s time!
Даже е късно
YES IT IS !!
…And the pic is of a 50 year old woman, because an army’s primary function is to represent a society’s inclusiveness to all. Oh, and if we get into any real trouble, the US will step in and save us anyway. So French.
An army to protect and defend what, and to protect from what?
Yes, but only if the EU reforms to an accountable people’s democracy first and only then! Europeans have a tragic history of giving too much power to particular individuals who then use it for their own imperial ambitions leading to crippling wars and the destruction of our land and peoples. Prevention is better than cure!
Yes, yesterday was late.
It should have been formed from the beginning of the EEC about 30 years ago. Instead you have left borders like the Hellenic sea to be a passage for refugees and terrorists into Europe. Let’s see now how you handle the Turkish slave drivers and the mad Turkish president
Weeks ago I would say yes! Now absolutely no. After france nationalized stx jest to prevent Italian ownership. So AGAINST- EU. I don’t want an army
Definetly yes.
There are most urgent issues than creating an EU army. For instance, we should find out properly what the Europeans think about themselves, about their values and citizenship goals and, only then, start launching policies according to the results. I can understand why Juncker thinks this is kind of an assurance that war between us will never happen again but…I’m afraid they want to do it quickly. It requires a lot of coordination and decision making. Therefore, I’d say that it could work and it seems a nice idea…but maybe it’s not the right moment. And overall, I prefer Europe to lead the world’s peace movement.
Why you keep asking the same stupid question? No it can’t work
It’s time for EU to have its own voice, labor union, currency, harmonized employment laws, minimum social welfare criteria and authority over its member states to avoid being tricked by gimmicks.
I don’t want to join the army but before approving an EU army how much does it cost and how many lives will be shed?
No way! #NoSuperstate #NoEUArmy
Screw it.
Heaven forfend – they could not even organise a piss up in a brewery!!
Europe is andoubtly a christian continent. Traditions, state functions and procedures, culture and many other facets of public life in most European countries, are based on Christianity.However, recenly, the inflow of refugees and immigrants and also the cultural shift in EU has icreased the persentage of the population that belongs to other religions (or they are atheists)but also the tolerance towards the beliefs and traditions of such polpulation.I m not sure that we still can talk about a “Christian Europe”. Multicultural, yes. Multi-religious”, yes. It is a continent that is changing, a continent that includes and welcomes “the different”. But, what will be the final result and what will be the dominant religious group in the future? We do not know yet. And, we should not abolish our Christian traditions so easily. However, we have to live in peace with other religious groups and give every European citizen the freedom to hold his/her own beliefs without being mistreated or discriminated in the name of religion or other “characteristic”.
Yes like the war in the former Yugoslavia when the EU just sat on its hands whilst genocide took place , wholesale rape of children and women , shooting of men and boys . They did NOTHING . The EU has no backbone and will only ever use an army to fight anyone who dares to stand up to the Eurocrats and Germany. This is just one step nearer to an EU superstate
Trump has weakened Nato, the UK has weakened Europe, a common Defence Force is looking inevitable.
And much more cheaper… (normally)
You do know we are leaving the pointless EU and not Europe don’t you ?
You do know we are leaving all of the EU’s institutions under May?
Nato need to become Great, if a rocket fell on you don’t worry you will become a great dead, Greatness is the issue, the rest not important
Europe is threatened with the invasion of simple uncivilized people, not alien armies. The second threat to the EU is its officials with a modest intellectual potential
That’s the point!!! If we got a high intellectual potential, we don’t go to army!!! We go expand that potential, creating an building things…
Yes.Not only that.European Coast Guard too.
Coast Guard coupe be a Good idea but maybe first Italians and Greeks should try to use their own to stop illigall migrants?
Maciek Zbżerzny if we greeks use our navy to stop illegal imigration and for exampel we would send 50 boats to our borders to watch for illigal imigrants … the next day turkey will have more than 100 boats at their site calling this action of greece a “war threat”.This what you say is not possible.Only an EU coast guard can do this with no threats from turkey.This are EU borders…i can not understand why we greeks have to buy weapons to defend EU borders and other countries who dont have botders with non EU countries dont help us out with this situation.And of course we have to buy weapons from our eu friends every year.The greek army uses about 30% of our GDP.
A EU Defense Force is long overdue to defend and protect the European Union from external threats like the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union designed by Turkey to undermine and destroy the European Union beginning with the European Institution of Schengen A EU Defense Force would also put a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation of EU member Cyprus since 1974 , which is a British- Turkish alliance against the Americans in Cyprus since 1950 designed to keep the Americans out of Cyprus.
You’re welcome to pay for it yourself. I will not be forced to pay for foreign militarists.
.
Go for it, we are ready. The result will be the same as every other time a crazed bunch of Europeans with a flag & a plan to unite Europe create an army. :)
https://www.facebook.com/skynews/videos/1906680669346521/
In a continent of conflicting interests with a wide variaty of strategic thinking, I ask: who will this army defend us against? We ‘ve got to agree on certain fundamental principles, and -most important- decide who our enemy is. Till then, it’s a waste of money
Brussels would use its army to keep the Nations within the EU in line, would they use it to make you comply with their dictates ? of course they would.
Some EU countries consider enemies countries which are allied to the West via NATO. Some other countries have long standing issues with historical archrivals (Romania-Hungary, or Slovakia-Hungary, or Greece-Turkey). In case of a crisis within Europe, will the EU army remain unbiased at the sidelines? What if one of the two parties requests help? Will the EU army intervene on behalf let’s say of Greece against Turkey? Does an Estonian or a Luxembourger even care about that?
Wouldnt a European Military Ministry/Force lessen the chances of conflict happening inside the EU? It would be another oportunity for integration, this time for soldiers/marines/pilots of different countries, and what the EU needs the most is integration, people putting aside nationalism for European pride
Portugal’s oldest enemy is spain. Why exactly would we have a common army with them?
Ó José Bessa da Silva , chiça!… Vais buscar com cada uma!
Acaso não tem uma guerra diplomática pendente por conta da ZEE das Selvagens? Acaso não há Olivença? Acaso não existe Almaraz? Ou devemos perdoar o incumprimento do Tratado de Albufeira por parte de espanha? Não sou eu que vou “buscar”. O que digo são factos e a história está em livros para que a leiam. Encontre um enimigo deste país, sem ser espanha, que tenha tantos conflitos territoriais e diplomáticos…não encontra!
Sure … since we kill each other in the financial arena its time kill our self’s with real weapons too. By the way great opportunity for Germany.
That’s the point! Ir would be the new Wehrmacht to complete the Lebensraum, I mean the EU…
10/10
The European Union should have a common army as a counterbalance to the Russian army. one who does not understand the importance of his own European army, he has no idea of life. Have neutrality and similar ideas for kindergarten.
Well, there are kindergartens, where kids are taught history so that they remember what germans did to the world ….and today’s EU is German hegemony, isn’t it? Who do you think such army would serve. Remember the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?
Barbara Szela Lesniak You do not understand the world. Reality is something else. I am from Croatia. We had many wars in history, but we did not want one. Do you have your culture and how to protect yourself from the great mix of cultures that are not cultures, “” You know who you are, where you are and where you go. Left political options lead you into big problems you are probably unknowingly aware of.
Yessssssss
Too soon. A European Border Guard and a European Coast Guard first.
Next comes a European Air force and Navy.
We have plenty of armies. Leave that until last.
An actual border patrol should be first, AGREED!
The border patrol sounds very nice. But just imagine sending troops to Hungarian borders that are under EU’s direct supervision. All they’d be doing would be saying “Welcome to Europe”
Each state have and should pay for their own border and coast guards. The UE is not a country and I am not willing to waste money on someone elses borders.
“UE army” means “IV Reich”. Booth are totalitarian. Germany has already burned Europe 2 times. Now germany barbarians are going to burn it 3th time using “refugees” and “UE army”.
Poland has its own want to be Mussolini, he is called Kaczynski.
I agree with Jimmi Sowa. I reckon The germans are once again pushing down Europe….
Tim Nick Knight I don’t think you really know what’s going on in my country. You’d better take care of yours…..
Long time over due. Not even mentioning how much money is wasted buying American hardware. We should be easily fend off countries like Russia.
How did Operation Barbarossa work out for you the last time ?
Ivan, it now it’s 2017 the EU is powerful, and the UK is just an overrated has been. Things change
The EU is what? What a joke…
First, before creating an army, the EU must become a federal state.
The fact is nobody wants a federal EU, would you use your new EU army to make them accept it ?
if no federal state, no army.
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Maybe….
Undoubtedly.
That would be a dream for Germany! I hope that Germany is kept out of it for histórical reasons. We miss UK to balance Germany’s ever increasing EU power overtaking.
How can you put Germany out if it’s one of the most powerful armies in the EU they are a democracy now come on be real…but in my view we must go into a federation with a government elected by all of us citizens…
No, it is not. Again, the EU is not a country.
But it will be.
Not with my country in it.
José Bessa da Silva your country is one of the most pro-European countries in Europe. You are not talking for your country.
You are such an ignorant. You had to be spanish. My country is one of the most euriceptic and that is why our government had to join anti-EU patliamentary forces in order to reach a majority. Read the news.
https://www.publico.pt/2003/12/07/sociedade/noticia/portugueses-sao-os-mais-desconfiados-da-uniao-europeia-1177862
Just as late as last year our society was discussing the possibility of doing a referendum to leave the EU. Are you bloddy serious right now? Than you spaniards wonder why you are considered arrogantly ignorant in this country. http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/politica/detalhe/catarina_martins_defende_referendo_sobre_a_uniao_europeia_se_houver_sancoes_a_portugal
https://books.google.pt/books?id=0Go-99K9q48C&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=portugal+cometeu+um+erro+ao+entrar+no+euro&source=bl&ots=fxK112ZX58&sig=pherh53MMC2oWFK19B5FtSP11jo&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA9u-spJrWAhXH2xoKHU5xAJwQ6AEIJzAE#v=onepage&q=portugal%20cometeu%20um%20erro%20ao%20entrar%20no%20euro&f=false
Magaly Morales If EU were democratic (but it’s not), there would be different ideas discussed and referendum used as the tool to decide. Poland has always been pro-EU, but aren’t we entittled to different opinions on e.g. Merkel’s immigrant policy? Does it have to be Germany and their French puppet to decide for other independent UE countries. And remember, EU is not a country.
Yes. And one fair tax system for all.
We need a European Army. Now separately we are spending more in total than warmongering USA . It is not practical or efficient.
Also we have a wonderful chance of creating an Army for the future, and Army without old concepts.
We need an Army that fully protects the EU citizens not only from other countries attacks but agains forest fires, floods, earthquakes, illegal migration, cyber attacks…a new Army this century.
There is no “european citizens” because the EU is not a country and never will be. It is also a lie that a common army will cost less, it all depends on how much you’re willing to waste. The world does not need more armies, nor do I need more taxes to waste on a military that would beused to impose foreign interests.
What wee need is to end the EU and return to be simply a single market.
José Bessa da Silva sorry, but you are in a very minority. Europe will be a country, that will stop any possibility of war in Europe and will make us stronger to defend ourselves against multinational corporations, trade unfairness, health and safety of our food and services, defends of environment…and a lot more.
And Europe will have an Army fit for this century Europeans needs and will stop dependency from USA and we will save lots of money that can go to services.
No, Im not in a minority and you will notice that when you see yourself with a war in your hands for trying to impose an imperialistic project on us.
It is also funny you claim the EU protect us from multinationals. That is the biggest lie of all times. The EU IS made andrun by multinationals. Multinationals use Brussels to enter in our countries.
The EU is a corrupt, vile institution and has no future. It already started to crumble. Only lunatics believe an antidemocratic institution has a future among the most educated nations on earth. You and the corrupt elite you protect are the real minority and will eventually suffer the same fate as Luis XVI if you do not change your ways.
https://books.google.pt/books?id=0Go-99K9q48C&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=portugal+cometeu+um+erro+ao+entrar+no+euro&source=bl&ots=fxK112ZX58&sig=pherh53MMC2oWFK19B5FtSP11jo&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA9u-spJrWAhXH2xoKHU5xAJwQ6AEIJzAE#v=onepage&q=portugal%20cometeu%20um%20erro%20ao%20entrar%20no%20euro&f=false
José Bessa da Silva your very small country have benefited enormously from entering the EU. And as I said, your opinion is not shared by a majority of your country’s citizens. Your opinion is just an oddity amongst the opinion of the vast majority of your country.
My “very small” country is poorer than in 1974. Where is the enormous benefit in that? You need to change glasses.
Also, you do not know what is the opinion of my country other wise you would not state such an ignorant and easily disproved lie. So please, abstain yourself from speaking about a country that is not yours and of which you know nothing my ignorant spaniard… https://www.publico.pt/2003/12/07/sociedade/noticia/portugueses-sao-os-mais-desconfiados-da-uniao-europeia-1177862
http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/pais/2014-10-17-Portugal-com-mais-pobres-do-que-em-1974
http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/politica/detalhe/catarina_martins_defende_referendo_sobre_a_uniao_europeia_se_houver_sancoes_a_portugal
Im sucha an oddity in fact, that Portugal current government is supported by anti-EU parliamentary forces. You know, your speeach about my nation sounds just like that about the UK. ” Oh no, they will never vot yes”, “The majority is in favour of the EU”, etc. Than, well, we all know how you eurofools fooled yourselves…
José Bessa da Silva I do trust more Eurobarometer pools. Criticism of EU policies are normal. It doesn’t mean they will vote to get out.
Ungrateful bitch Morales. You’d be speaking Germany nowadays, if it weren’t for the USA.
Gino Ronzitti it was Russia, not USA, the ones liberating Europe. USA came to pick up the rest and carry out the looting of anything valuable that was left in Europe, including nazis scientists and engineers . And we haven’t been able to get rid of them ever after. Time to go home, Yankee
Right, you trust more the propaganda made by EU in favour of the EU than electoral results and opinion pools made in the country you’re speaking about. Logic. It is very wise of you…hahaha
You are delusianal Morales. You should be institutionalized. Continentalists tend to suffer from dementia. If it wasn’t for us atlanticists this continent would be a mess of dictatorships, corruption, poverty and war.
Remember history …. Now when Germany and France dictate Poland how to govern our independent country, this is a dangerous idea.
Can they afford it with Britix & the cost of the new European Parliament building in Brussels @ €240 million? Have you seen the size of it.
If you have followed European Politics for the last decades, British influence in Europe have cost Europe trillions in loses and millions of employment. And have stopped the EU project from advancing. No, I don’t think Europe is going to miss Britain. We are going to miss Europe a lot more, until the older generation that voted Brexit is gone and we can return to Europe.
If you need a 35 years old soldier, but with all the experience needeed, just tell
Po co taka kosztowna(!)armia, skoro i tak do pilnowania granic zewnętrznych UE wynajmuje się de facto żołdaków Erdogana czy libijskich bandytów, bo armie posiadaczy granic nie mogą … działać??? ;-)
it is time the EU earn the Nobel Peace Prize it won.
70 years of peace = earned
Arnout Posthumus that’s the problem right there – inward thinking about Europe. How many EU countries contribute to war and oppression abroad with their weapons sales, for example?
We need to have a Europe that de-escalates conflicts and helps negotiates peace.
Yes,with the Western European Union and we remove away the NATO l
It would be a German army with foreign units, sound familiar ?
That’s rather ‘exotic’ for a trading agreement. A trading agreement having its own army? Bwaha.!
We don’t have a common tax policy and we are talking about common army you got to laugh. We need peace not army’s to feed the warmongers
A EU army is a step towards a federation that’s the way to go a EU federation with a president or prime minister elected by all Europeans through an universal vote not like US where there is a stupid electoral college…that’s why we must integrate finances, army, education, foreign affairs, that’s why we need a working state for that we need a Federation…countries independent and a common transnational government for finances, education, labor, army, foreign affairs, telecommunications, transports between all the states…at this point the EU commission has limited powers and it’s not elected by us citizens
You can’t integrate army’s before taxes that’s a con. And plus there’s is no democracy without the votes of each country are equivalent otherwise the small will bend to the biggest. We don’t need a UE controlled by the northern countries and also warmongers like France once UK is out of the way. The romantic view doesn’t correspond to the reality.
No way we’re propping up a pan-European army. More funds to education and start to reduce defence expenditure, which allows the same people to thrive.
Please do you know what you are saying if we had an EU army all the states would spend less on defence it would be better for all and there would be more money available for other areas, please go see for yourself before saying those things that’s not true a common army is cheaper than everyone having individual armies…
to invade immediately Hungary and Poland??
majd azonnal behatol Magyarországra és Lengyelországba??
Noooo
Yes. Without Britain that still have colonies in the EU like…Cyprus for example
I think Cyprus want this British base !!
Of course.
Yes Read for EU ARMY
ΕU army under German control will just revive the days of Charlamene and NAZIs. They have already distroyed the economies of Europe and stolen the sovereignty of nations — not to be trusted.
Friend a EU army won’t be controlled by Germany the nuclear weapons are on France…Italy and Poland have great armies and the other countries too so I don’t think Germany in this EU army will be the dominant force specially because the big guns nukes and aircraft carrier are in France…but in terms of politics I myself defend an EU federation were all of us would vote on an EU president or Prime Minister, in that federation Germany wouldn’t have the ability to rule Europe why simple mathematics, Germans are 80 millions the EU as about 500 millions citizens so with a president elected by 500 millions a country with 80 millions can tell him what to do so we must go to a Federation with universal voting not to an US system with an electoral college, in Europe who has the most votes combined wins…!
like i care who controles it. Stop fearing your ally nations, we are the EU. Its also insane when france votes le pen and you call germany nazis.
They also build up the EU with thier insane market capacity.
Oh an american… explains alot.
Yes it’s time we take our security into our hands instead of letting the Americans defend us, that makes the US able to have an advantage when they go into their wars with the EU army Europe besides the capability of operating anywhere in the world we Europeans can tell the US to remove troops from EU soil, and don’t go into stupid wars like Iraq, so we must go ahead to this reality who says no doesn’t want a strong and independent EU those ppl should realize that without an EU army it’s the US that defend and rule EU in military terms we must change this reality… specially if we have a president like Trump on the US…
it is time for peace.
It s if you’re a Rothschild globaist or some halfwit who believes anything they tell you.
Yes, so that it can replace NATO.
Yes! Russia is eventually coming for us, China seems to be more than willing to let shit go down. We need to be prepared for what’s coming. All the signs point to us needing to be ready for war.
ofcourse.
Isn’t European countries today without army ? Or it’s a fantasy to make Eastern Europe and weak European country stronger and take power from a strong country like Germany ? , is the European Union ll last longer After the political and economical collapse ?
We need more like this…
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/sep/08/germany-deadliest-company-stop-selling-guns-crisis-regions-heckler-and-koch
Of course we need it!
Nope! Nope! Nope!
I guess is better don’t have eastern warmonger in this EU army, but we need it
Y E S
Absolutely. End the NATO freeloaders..hehe
yes, http://european-federation.blogspot.com/2015/12/european-armed-forces.html
Yes….without NATO… We need EE free
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
NO NO NO! Ocupators go home! ️
Yes, EU Army makes a LOT of sense.
With a third world war ready to fight all we need is to arm the army to fight it!
And it’s one two three what are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me I don’t give a dam
Next stop is N. Korea…..
It aint no use to wonder why whoopee we’re all gonna die…
The arms lobby will make lots and lots money though…
Definitely YES
Yes, enlist all the pensioners…
No. We need peace. Enough with all the corporate war bullshit the yanks have been forcing down our throats post WWII.
Get your stupid heads out of your fat, smelly arses.
An army to protect what? Nothing that the EU wants to protect is being left unprotected – states have armies too, btw – therefore I am wondering. I am all for the EU states do more and more together, … but … an army??
EU army will be great if you fancy taking on Russia and having martial law on your streets…do.your research
Yes it is
In the service of who?
The Swiss model.
yes. it should!
Yes, ja, si, oui, da, of corse!
Is it time to ban armies in Europe?
For sure!!
for what? fist fight corruption in al EU states, put al corrupted politicians in jail forever
It is time for women to get equal sentencing for their crimes in Europe.
I don’t see any “strong women” demanding equal sentencing for crimes.
very woke. thumbs up
Adrian Arsene Well this is debating Europe Adrian…and I was unlawfully jailed by none less than Angela Merkel.
Funny how women can commit crimes against men with complete impunity isn’t it.
Off point and misogynistic. You seem to have a strong obsession going here, barging in off topic from Australia.
Carmelita Caruana
“Carmelita Caruana Off point and misogynistic. You seem to have a strong obsession going here, barging in off topic from Australia.”
Saying “muh-soggy-knees” when the disgusting behaviour of women is pointed out does not work any more Carmelita.
I teach young men ALL WOMEN ARE LIARS whose game it is to lie to men to manipulate their emotions to steal from them.
IT IS WOMEN WHO HATE MEN which is why you women project your hatred on to men all the time.
There is not one single woman working towards equal sentencing for womens crimes Carmelita.
And I teach young men the fact that 150 years in to women claiming they want equality not ONE of them is working for equal sentencing.
It is WOMENS HATRED OF MEN we are addressing.
Adrian Arsene And check out the hatred from Carmelita.
There are other is issues more important like the fiscal law normalization in the EU or the abolishment of off-shores, the prices of medication and the free education at all levels.
A unified army should be under a democratic EU parliament, something that today doesn’t exist.
The most important issue in the EU today is the securing of the rights of men Paulo.
While men have no security in their rights there is no point discussing any other subject.
Peter Andrew Nolan, indeed and that isn’t secure with alliances with zionists, racists and those who would like to see us all living under apartheid regimes.
Assuming that, Israel and any other regime as such should be expelled from the International community.
I don’t see a person with an IQ above average commenting “yes” to this…
Only idiots with a low IQ wouldn’t want a single Army for our country!
I hope you get drafted…
If it will be cheaper to support…why not?!
Keep calm and drink vodka
I think there is one issue that is key to the existence of a unified europe, and that is east vs west, west being Germany, France, Scandinavia, Benelux, Italy, Spain and to a lesser extent greece, Austria and Czech Republic, these countries are Richer, more developed in all systems, militarily, in education, infrastructure, culture and most importantly, in these countries lie the historically famous cities of europe(not to offend warsaw and budapest, but you cant compare it to Madrid, Paris, Brussels or Berlin, hell even Vienna)… In the modern day this historical pride creates a somewhat superiority of their eastern counterparts, Poles, Slovakiers, Lithuaniers, Hungarians, Estonians and Latvians, Bulgarians, Rumanians, etc…. All together in one big boat: primitive, slavic, europe, stupid people from the US call them russians! Members of the european union!!! But part of the critique is true, the eastern bloc is less economically strong as a whole, exceptions notwhithstanding, less diverse, with less quality infrastructure and education, etc… This is viewed on the macro level in european geopolitical relations too, especially with germany and france taking an extremely heavy unilateral action (its not bad but we are 27 member states, without unanimous agreement it is not possible to utilize the full potential of the european u ion!) …….. But sometimes i feel people in the west forget one thing… To clarify, i am anti US, because for me the US is tottaly oposite to what the EU is, like the dark elfs to Ulthuan and the Old world in “total war warhammer” (story reference), dark because the US is very organized, extremely efficient, the strongest military system in the world, an economic powerhouse, a racial melting pot, a centre of culture, but here lies the KEY issue: that culture is not european, Macdonalds, Kim Kardashian and California Porn (European Porn is much more subtle), Arrogant military officials, colonial families who while enlightened separate themselves from humanity and Narcicistic politicians, it is the only country to have used nuclear weapons and the only western power to never have been truly assaulted in any sense in the past (11 september was an isolated incident, i mean even britain was bombed the shit out of in ww2) and it is a dangerous country for me, im not saying the US isnt good in anything, it could be a marvelous country but right now and for the next 20-30 years min, historically (and maybe more depending on geopolitical developments) it will be a dangerous country… For everyone including the EU as the the libyan and syrian crisis have shown… , while Nato alliance supposedly protects Europe, the US suffered 0 refugee problem, and sits at ease in its imperium in the american continent, (many states like colombia, chile, mexico, panama, etc.. Are practically American Vassal states And those that it doesnt like peru, argentina and brazil it weilds heavy heavy influence) …….. Hahahahahah i think many will wonder what has all this Anti US talk been to do with east europe vs west europe? Well because of the cold war west europe has been much more permeated by american influence than east europe, if you look at western european youth the US influence is palpable, in music, thought, etc and it is a pitty…. I want the Netherlands to be known for other things than Prostitutes (a common presence in all europe equally 200 years ago and while presence in am Amsterdam has become more open presence in all of europe is still common) and marihuana, to be known for Rembrant and Vermeer, The Channels and the River Amstel and IjJ, The River Rijn, Naarden Vesting, Den Haag and its international courts, etc etc……. And this mentality, of ancient european culture vs the modern pop culture largely imported from the US and also product of a Europe traumatized By WW2, the european union has ironicaly produced in west europe a lack of pride, a lack of direction, but this has been the opposite for East Europe, for a Pole or a Latvian it must be terrible gratifying to be able to say im a european, and travel without visa, and finally, my message to the world: i believe ironically from my experience the ancient european culture of honor knowledge, architecture and heritage of a christian and medieval past has been preserved in its purest form in eastern europe, maybe not perhaps in its most powerful, but in its most purest, nearly eastern europeans, good or bad, i have met, have had a strange combination of toughness, stubborness and honesty, and with all these people i had the impresion that while some may be unfriendly if you gain their trust they will be your friend for life… I think east europe has much to improve and needs much help and intervention from western europe, but i hope western europe also has insight, and learns from eastern european culture
Here i think lies the key for the EU as a Global superpower
And in this context i think a european defence force would be an excellent way for people from all over europe to get to know eachother
So i support a European Defence Force
Bruxells is the Problem.
Of course it is unless you want the Turks to go to Vienna for coffee again
Yes, with the suppression of national armies.
Dont you say ?
Sarcasm appreciated ;)
It would be the national armies that would form it, right?
Good idea, but more trough making national armies work together as one, not by creating new force.
Why who you going to invade, Poland ?
Good idea, especially for all people, who will the consider that the Army that schould protect them is based on a kind of european brotherhood. If they may die together, let us live together.
OF COURSE NO…..IS IT NOT ENOUGH .ALL THE HARM INFLICTED ?
Yes,we should be independent
A European army allows to send some battalions of Ukrainians to squash a revolution for exemple in Portugal without fear of the army joining up with the local people while Portuguese troops could be used to oppress the Danish people for the same reason…
Old technique to control an empire already used by the Roman oligarchy some time ago… ;)
I though the EU was a project about peace?….
And who has then to control this army? The same lobbies that control the EU? Or even worst… Germany? Do you remember some history? And what about somebody is willing to leave the EU? Are they going to erase their homes to ground as Ukrainian government (a good friend to EU) did? The best way to assure the peace and freedom is every body having his own army. Things are OK right now. Thanks but no thanks.
Yes. With an integrated command from the center (Brussels) the armies of all EU States would work more efficiently.
Who sorted out the Yugoslav mess? Not Europe but the USA. It should have been Europe! So yes!
Big Yes
War against who? People that you never met and who done nothing for you? But there will always be “us” and “them”. That’s the recipe for wars.
Let’s nuke everything for peace.
The EU must have an army, to protect the EU citizens Also, the EU army should not be involved in a conflict outside of the EU borders and to stop selling weapons to the terrorist organizations like Saudi Arabia and Israel.
If an EU army should not be involved in conflicts outside the EU then their only use would be inside the EU & against its own disobedient citizens, presumable after you relabel them terrorists.
Ivan Burrows The EU has no enemies outside … Stop dreaming boy , life is not pink and also is not black and white. Life has different nuances of grey spotted with some different colors: on the national flags.
Not at all!
WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE BORDERS YOU DO NOT NEED ARMY
Wehrmacht ?
The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union and this is real threat.. I do not see any other.
The only threat to UE is internal one, coming from islamization.
Supposing Russia started encroaching on the Baltic states?
The national armies are enough provided they train together and have compatible weapons and tactics. When the outside borders are under threat then they will all act as one.
canot have a EU army, if EU is under occupation by the zog USA army.
you guys are just re-circulating questions? really sad life you must have.
Rafael del Riego
Ιt is high time!
What a great Idea, where does one sign up.
No. No. No. It’s enough of WW and central enduring violent, domineering proclivities.
It’s the time states start debating EU exit strategies. Then alternative trade and cooperation agreements can be made. This EU is a complete disaster. Brexit is correct. It shouldn’t be like this but this is the EU tyrants have created for their one benefit.
Absolutely, matching force for the needs in the region.
NO EU Army.
Wher do I sign up?
No any army we needs pease
Immediately after killing the military commander of Iran, Pompeo claimed that he had that discussed with the British Foreign Minister. It is crystal clear that the US is trying to convey a message that the UK is involved in such killing so that Iran might carry out terrorist attack again in Europe. The US has already successful in doing this with the 911. US European allies are closer to the Middle East thus cliser to retaliation. Europe is stupid to place its military command under the US NATO.
If things we done properly the army would have been in place for a long time, creating one now at a speedy pace will only lead to many deaths. All I wish for is that it won´t be needed in the near future. Due to 2 crazy individuals.
Well, Germany used to have an army …. we can still remember. You want more wars?
YEEEEEESSSS ! oui oui oui bien sûr que c’est temps
Any ‘EU army’ is a betrayal of NATO, but since EU countries are incapable of doing anything effective without U.S. support it’s all a mere expensive vanity project anyhow. Real EU security is totally dependent on a U.S. alliance, but EU leaders don’t like to admit that, and absurd Brussels Grand Panjandrums like Juncker (or Druncker as he is accurately dubbed) exist in a fantasy world, one which has to be maintained no matter what cost to the EU taxpayers or how damaging it is to real EU security.
The EU is a a total sham who bullies its members.. I think they should all leave the EU after all that has come out about it.. Its a losing cause.
What eu army,,,eu has more problem to fix..first they have to fix their front policy which they dont have any at this moment,and they have been a popet of united state of americs,they should fix that first,i believe…
cant be done…
only a very dramatic event could let the dozens EU generals fall…
Of course
we in europe canot have an army because we under occupation of the USA army, our highest enemy of all europeans. nobody want the usa army in europe and we disaprouve that.
France will never promise nuclear defence to countries that have issues at their boarder. It is too dangerous for the entire world. Think about balkans, cyprus, … if anything happens there, would it mean any european country would be able to launch a nuclear war? No thanks….
Obviously Yes! So far, only UK opposed to the project ( UK = the American Trojan Horse in Europe) but after Brexit should be no problem.
Nope. An increase in the centralisation of power is a perceived as a direct threat of sovereignty in many European members states. Furthermore, undermining the NATO alliance is very unwise.
Fortunately this idea of an EU army is almost practically impossible.
If an EU army means current national armies yes. It means duplicate the spending in armies, clearly no.
EU army only if
a)NATO gets out of Europe
b)Europe turns to traditionalism without liberal or national conservative types involved. EU army respects all European countries.
It’s time for the EU “to create a common European army, which would show the world that there will by no means be war once more amongst EU nations”, as the EC President J.C. Juncker said. . Obviously, NATO will continue to demand our taxes, ‘defending’ us from the US enemies. WAR has always been a big and profitable BUSINESS for the USA, but not for the EU! Thus, ‘with every passing year, the idea of the joint European Army is becoming a more and more topical one’,
https://medium.com/@nuslufrist/lansquenets-for-anglo-saxons-ef4f130f5991
Yes! 27 ineffective and costly armed forces can’t be justified in modern Europe.
before that step, put in jail al EU politicians corrupted
Now that would be awesome! :D
We most urgently need a all professional EU Defense Force to crreat a Fortress EU against external attacks like the current Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the EU that has swamped Germany with more than 1 million illegal immigrants with a EU Defense Force designed to protect the EU Institution of Schengen that has removed all internal borders of the EU , providing freedom of movement to all EU Citizens within the European Union , while also swiftly putting a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation f Cyprus since 1974 , which is a British – Turkish alliance against the Americans in Cyprus that resulted in the Bush Administration making the American military invade Iraq in 2003 , during the ascension process of Cyprus into the European Union on May 1 2004, that resulted in the decade long American military quagmire in Iraq all due to the Turkish -British alliance against the Americans in Cyprus since 1950.
And call it the ‘Wehrmacht’ ?
My country does not need to waste moneypaying for a useless army that may be used against ourselves. Even less to pay an army to fight someone else’s war.
If you want a war pay for ot yourself instead os trying to steal my taxes.
My country does not need to waste money paying for a useless army that may be used against ourselves. Even less to pay an army to fight someone else’s war.
If you want a war pay for it yourself instead os trying to steal my taxes.
José Bessa da Silva if we want to maintain a union we have to take into account the needs of each other !It’s good when your neighbor country is Spain but here in Greece we have major problem with Turky!Turkey is an unstable unpredictabole offensive country that you dont want them for neighbor believe me…
When you rely on others for your defense, you can never have your own independent foreign policy. So bring it!! If Europe ever really wants to be taken seriously as a main world player.
George Soros wants an EU army so you will have an EU army. How does it feel to be controlled by a Nazi …… again ?
https://theduran.com/the-list-of-soros-names-226-meps-in-europe-who-are-under-the-control-of-george-soros/
‘One people, One Nation, One Leader’. History repeats itself.
EU is turning in to tyranny
Has Ireland signed up to this?
‘Neutral’ Nations will be forced to join Juncker’s Wehrmacht or else.
An EU army would replace the national army of each country? If so, then yes!
Sorry. We need an army to ensure you spaniards don’t cross our border
José Bessa da Silva what the hell… what’s the problem of crossing borders😡😡
Annabel Riley Rodriguez don’t feed the troll…
You spaniards are not trutworthy you see. History has proved you are not civilized so we must protect ourselves from you.
Yes! Don’t forget about atomic weapons. Europe need a lot of nukes.
You’re going to need it to enforce marshal law when the civil war begins.
Yes but, at the same time, we must quit NATO!!
Overdue
No it is not and will never be. The EU is not a country and is unworthy of any trust.
no the Point of common Military heands was already inserted with NATO´ s FIRTS HISTORICAL STEPS THE POINT NOW IS TO BRING FORWARD THE PROJECTS OF EU FOR INCLUDING ON HIS TERRITORY ALL FRAMES FROM THE PROJECT OF FULL STARS AND MEMBERS………. MILITARY IS ALREADY WORKING GOOD…… AND COMMON HEANDS WITH USA ON THIS FRAMES OF PROTECTION AND SAFETY IS A PLAN NOT TO BE CHANGED….. I THINK THE IDEA IS TO BRING FORWARD THE PORJECTS NOT TO STOP AND NOT TO GO OUT…… PATIENCE AND STRENGTHNESS LIKE BEFORE…… WE DO NOT NEED A TERROR ATACK AGAIN OR A DISPERCE OF UNITED FORCES FOR REMINDING US AGAIN HOW AND WHAT WE NEED FOR THE FULLFILMENTS OF COMONN PROJECTS ……… FOR ME EDUCATIONAL PROFILES ARE ALWAYES A BETTER SOLUTION FOR KEEPING UNDER CONTROLL WITH NO WAR……. ABOUT THE HISTORICAL NAMES OF WE KEEP OUR HENADS WITH BIGGER MARKETS THIS COMES FROM BIZNESS INTERESSES AND IT IS KNOWN FROM THE FIRSTE PROJECTS OF INSOURSING OR OUTSOURSING FROM AND FAR COUNTRIES TO KEEP MARKETS UNDER CONTROLL……. THAT IS BIZNESS PART. NOT UNDER MILITARY TENDENCY OR PURPOSE……. SORRY FOR THE BIG LETTERS…… I SSE THOSE NOT VERY WELL THE SMALL ONE
It’s long due!! They should already have a strong army!
There is no point in doing so. The EU never recognized the official borders of Greece, when it comes down to suck up on Turkey. Also why would I trust my country’s safety in the hands of a European aoldier who doesn’t give a fuck and doesn’t share the love for that country as the indigenous population. How would I trust my safety to foreigners who have many times schemed according to their interests and have sold out people, borders and land.
Finally! Till now we couldnt do it because UK was opposing all the time. This time, Brexit has finally some benefits to EU
After the ” invasion”, it is useless… Too late.
Is it time for Europe not to cower in fear every time an American president puts NATO’s article V under question ?
This position serves only to divide the actual protection, this third way died with the murder of Olaf Palme in Sweden, this illusion of European army is an illusion and only serves to remove the real problem
again?
This is the sign, that EU must fall. Fuck EU and Neo liberalism
The only threat to UE is internal one, coming from islamization. The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union and this is real threat. The German army has committed too many crimes on other nations in the past and it cannot be trusted.
what islamization? certainly not us in Europe and most certainly not you in Poland who are so Christian you don’t even live according to the christian faith!!!! so much for good Samaritan…..
We weren’t ready for you and apparently your mindset was not ready for Europe either….
Lol Jerzy. You’re very funny! 😄
Sooner the better.
To fight ISIS created by the west which is now imported into the west???
Against who ..the EU?
To invade Russia to topple Putin for war crimes or something. 3rd time lucky & all that sort of thing.
So once uk leaves…who is going to pay extra to fill the £45 billion hole that uk currently spends on defense…in addition to the £12 billion net contribution.
Also I am confused as to who will order the deployment of these forces. Which of the many presidents will commit german..greek….spanish…danish etc service personel ?
EU must come together! An inevitable necessity!
The EU must piss off and leave Europe alone.
Don McCarron is the Russians dream
Ludwig’s got his tinfoil hat on to prevent the Russian Hackerz controlling his mind. Conspiracy theory or something.
David. Can’t believe the number of halfwits who are swallowing this “Russian threat” garbage. You hide under that blue and yellow flag if you like Ludwig, we Brits aren’t so easily scared, especially by non existent threats.
Ludwig needs an Army as his cowardly leaders refuse to change the box head constitution which doesn’t allow combat troops to be deployed out of nazi territory.
David Moody you are a Russian made “fake one”? Tell me more about Duma, how is the Paradise over there?
Flippin’eck. We’ve got one here.
Don McCarron from the same propaganda company?
i like you gays, you are so ridicules funny!
Whatever you say, Ludwig. Just don’t get too excited.
it must be very dangerous what you try to explain to me, is my live in danger?
OK i confess. I am a Russian Automon on Russia’s payroll. Putin sends his regards, he’s watching me type this 😂
I’m Spetsnaz and so is our dog.
Facebook CIA NSA and FBI will have a closer look to your accounts and hello to your boss
David Moody just don t care go on and look forward
https://euobserver.com/agenda/137898
Maybe
About time! We need a European Army. And dismantling NATO.
No we don’t even less with my taxes. Im not willing to pay to protect fireigner and even less to pay for an army ove which my ciuntry had no control over.
José Bessa da Silva A European Army will not defend foreigners but European citizens. And putting together all the European nations Defense budgets we are spending more on Defense than USA.
But we depend on USA for our Defense. That have to stop. We need Defense independence so we can have our own foreign policy and able to say not to USA’s warmongering that is clouding us a lot of damage and a lot of money that we can use on health services, housing, education…
1. who will be the civilian commander of this army?
2. Can you or any other citizen elect this person?
Jovan Ivosevic obviously the Army will be under European Parliament, the representatives of European citizens
amazing isnt it the eec set up as a trading organisation originally, turned into a control law making organisation without each countries people being consulted, now being turned into an undemocratic dictatorship led by the largest country germany, pushing for an eu army again without consultation or being voted by the people, the eec great as a trading organisation has now changed, the eu with its own flag and with no people consultation or vote, wake up your own democratic voice and ways and customs are being eroded by an arrogant group of dictators, the sooner each country leaves the eu and gets its own identity and democracy back the better
Magaly Morales obviously you don’t understand how civilian control of armed forces works. Legislatures may conduct hearings and review spending but they cannot “command” armed forces. A member of the executive does it be it the president like in France, the Prime Minister like in the UK and most European democracies or uniquely in Germany, the Minister of Defense. A war fighting organization cannot have 750 bosses who have no executive authority.
The plans for the EU Army usually include having the civilian commander be the President if the European Union aka the person selected to chair the European Council of 28 presidents and prime minister’s (27 after the Brits leave) That position is currently held by Donald Tusk who is elected by European governments who are in turn elected by national parliaments who are in turn elected by the people.
A European Army would be a fighting institution on par with the major militaries of the world like the US China and Russia and would be commanded by someone buried under three levels of indirectly elected government officials between himself and the people. The only thing that’s “obvious” is that you should do less assuming in this topic and far more actual research into the proposal as well as the inner workings of European institutions.
Jovan Ivosevic the EU parliament elects the executive and the executive President. Exactly like in any country, they will control that army
Jovan Ivosevic you are ignoring that the European Project is a Federal one. United States of Europe.
Jovan Ivosevic by the time the EU Army have all competence, we will be a Federal State
We have to participate on NATO as EU military and not as separate nations!The commision will have the civil authority!
As long as there is no democratically elected executive of the European union I can’t overstate how bad of an idea that is. You re literally taking the monopoly on the lawful use of force out of the hands of people.
canot have EU army, if EU is dictatoship, and beside EU is under occupation of the USA army. need to end occupation of the USA army that keep occupation of europe.
I think its about time we move to africa to enjoy a pieceful relaxed life next to tarzan.
An EU army without Great Britain will be a laughing stock. What are you going to do if the Russians respond to your warmongering? Beat them back with disapproving looks? :)
Was that an attempt to belittle the EU or to commend the UK? Neither Lockheed Martin nor Airbus are British companies. Guess where Germany’s new jets will be coming from.
Both.
about time the eu paid for something it wont bother us because we wont be part of it all so wont really care
Not try to insult somebody but if you believe that UK will leave EU then you are naive
Konstantinos Gerakaris Trying not to insult you but if you believe you’re going to have your hand in my pocket much longer then you are naive.
The EU needs an army yesterday
lovely then all those young people who voted to remain and are anti brexit and love the eu so much can do their 3yrs eu national service stint. after all they wont mind putting their lives on hold for a few years will they?
Yes, like any army. At least it’s for our EU army and not some regional guard forces.
Definitely yes !
I think we need it for yesterday but managing such an army will be a political nightmare. Lets hope they find a solution/protocol to deal with all the possible defence scenarios within an acceptable response time. Also I hope that then as a 2th or 3th step the European union also invests in social security, taxes, health, education, “president/senators” elected by people and a political clean up of “fat cows”, duplicates services and public debt” …
Yes for EU ARMY!
Called the Wehrmacht? Europeans have learnt nothing from their history and are destined to repeat it, you’re more than stupid!
Remi Martin, you are a traitor for EU!
Sento Pop grow up
Paschalis Bourletsikas Get the f..k out of Europe if you are against EU!
We need also urgently an EU Anti Corruption Department!
EU’s peace, they said….
They lied….
Either an army or extreme Islam expansion will continue and Russian influence . Time to wake up .
Time to end EU!
Rémi Martin and then what? I just wanna hear your arguments
Just to be able to deceide ourselves, at home, what else? It’b be enough! There’s no union, if there was really one, each land wouldgo in the same way, but in EU, each land defends his own interests, nothing more! You don’t unite peoples under a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t vote for, so easy!
No: never. The €U Army would be a private army of the banksters like Mr Soros against Russia. Russia must be the first international partner of the Free European People.
Agree
Such an army would be nothing but a tool of EU elites to prevent other countries from trying to leave the EU.
All the intrisic, true debates and Tecno ERA.
#UBi, every1 can do debates..from pocjet change$.
EU is tyranny. Army is atempt to cement its domination trough threat of force
Tyranny? For fuck sake have a word with yourself. Tyranny is what is happening in Syria right now.
Of course, but further steps for the European unification must be done simultaneously if the whole thing is to succeed.
Any kind of European unification against the will of the people will fail as it as failed every other time a bunch of lunatics with a flag and a plan to unite Europe have tried it. Nationalism rules, always has, always will. :)
Ivan Burrows my friend the benefits of EU are so many and so obvious that the further unification of Europe is inevitable, you will see it after brexit. European federation doesn’t mean abolish single nations but to have stronger nations in a much stronger union, which will be their shield against global turmoil, in fact EU guarantees the prosperity of its single nations.
Christos Saroglou Name one ‘benefit’ the EU has provided that is not enjoyed by peoples not in the EU ?, just one. Go ask the Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish etc how prosperous they feel and the only inevitability of the EU is it will be consigned to the dustbin of history alongside those other inglorious dogma’s of Nazism and Communism.
Some EU benefits; the ability to freely move, study, live, work and invest across the largest free market in the world and one of the most prosperous places on the planet. Increased international cooperation on climate change and environmental issues, EU countries backing other member states in UN votes (such as the EU’s current support for the UK over the Falklands). All done with agreement and support of our elected governments, so you can drop you’re hyperbolic comparisons which are basically just a lie.
James Taylor We had every one of those things long before the pointless EU, try again.
Most of all, the longest peace period our continent has ever known. Never again European nations were more prosperous and peaceful, all those didn’t happened by luck
Christos Saroglou NATO has kept the peace in ‘Europe’, the antidemocratic EU had nothing to do with it.
When you talk of oeace in europe…you have a very narrow view.. ask the geogians…the ukrainians.. those in crimea.. even imstill im bosnia how peace feels like!
Ivan Burrows After ww2 the major industrial nations of Europe seeing the devastation the war caused tried to find a way not to have war again in the continent after talks and talks reached the conclusion that were the rivalries of big European nations and the struggle for raw materials which caused the wars. To abolish these rivalries needed an organization which would ensure cooperation between them, so in 1956 the community of coal and steel was founded which gradually was transformed into today’s Eu. This is why we don’t have wars anymore because through cooperation and partnership (EU) Europeans learned to solve their problems and coexist. NATO had nothing to do with that nato is a military alliance against any threat but strictly military has nothing to do with economic collaboration and partnership. After all the community of nations between the two wars failed to ensure peace because lacked those two essential things cooperation and partnership.
Paul Vincent this is exactly what I am telling you, peace which is given for us into the EU, it’s not given for other nations of the continent who doesn’t have the luck to be member states of the EU. Peace is the major benefit of Eu.
No wars? Lybia, Sirya, Iraq, Mali, Afghanistan and i forget the others, call our soldiers back, they just make wars outside from EU, peace is something else!
To keep you EU citizens under control ? Of course, how else are the unelected European Politburo going to create their empire … Happy New Year From a Free Great Britain :)
Yet, you watch all the EU sites. Ivan, time to start subscribing to the American sites, as you guys want so badly to be an American state
Tim Nick Knight Re-read the title of the page comrade, its Debating ‘Europe’, not debating the EU. But thank you for showing your hatred of free speech, Juncker will be so proud of you.
Ivan Burrows, they are fascists
Antisemtic fascists
Its true that the EU is not completely democratic yet, this is something that is going to be addressed in the coming years as we form and shape future Europe, but seriously, what makes you think that England is that free? A lot of the nationalist movements, not only in Britain, but other european countries, keep saying that EU is so oppressive, when the national governments have just the same amount of corruption and special interest groups in power. England has long been known in businesscircles as a place where shady deals can be made with huge sums of money in a huge international scale, owing to your empire days, a lot of rich people use tax-havens, your governmwnt rutinely lies to the poorer segment of society, to make them vote tory even when they are being screwed over by them, you actually still have an aristocracy for God’s sake! Even Denmark where I come from I not free of this corruption. And that is what EU is being created to combat, while creating a stronger united Europe for us all. Does it have problems? Yes! And if England had stayed in it, we could have made it better together 😐 And on another note, as soon as the Syrian civil war is under control and we help create jobs and stability in northern Africa, the fugitive/migrant waves will stop and all this discursive on foreigners and islamophobia will slowly cease and we can get back to focusing on Europe.
Mark Sjøberg You claim the goal of the EU will free you from corruption yet your glorious leader created one of the biggest tax heavens – Luxembourg, your unelected commissioners move directly into the institutions you claim to want freedom from after their term in office, your European Commission ignores National elections and every vote of the ‘people’ and now plans to ban open discussion, debate and referendums, you are ruled by the European constitution which was rejected by the people so was renamed the Lisbon treaty to bypass democracy, your institutions answers to no one but themselves and people like George Soros ‘owns’ your European Commission and its rubber stamping department the European Parliament. You are blind to the reality of your situation but others are not and the antidemocratic EU is bound to fail, we can only hope it does so without the usual bloodshed that followed the EU’s predecessors, Nazism and Communism.
As for us, we are British and will be just fine without your pointless EU but thank you for your concern.
http://theduran.com/the-list-of-soros-names-226-meps-in-europe-who-are-under-the-control-of-george-soros/
The best thing to do is to run away?
Cowards.
António Espadaneira Run away ? We are not running away, we are taking back our democracy and leaving the prison that is the pointless EU & rejoining the free world. :)
You ran away.
António Espadaneira lol, if you say so comrade, if you say so. So tell me, What do you care anyway, you live in British Columbia !, did you run away ? lol
I don’t run; I walk ;)
António Espadaneira A very long way apparently.
NATO – a US dominated alliance
UE Army – a German-French dominated Army.
Called the Wehrmacht, Europeans have learnt nothing from their history and are destined to repeat it, we will not save you again from the stupidity.
Juliusz Lichwa Go for your EU Army, but without France, did you once believe soldiers would give theirs lifes for an imaginary people?
Just tell me who will decide to go to war? Juncker? merkle?
Soros will tell Berlin who to go to war against and Berlin will tell Brussels.
There’s already an EU Army today forcing refugees and their families into prisons and slavery in Libya today.
But not the kind of army who has the military might to prevent situations like Libya from happening. Right?
ah! an old-style colonial army, like in the old days – that should work out well :D
Sic semper tyrannis.
Dovno pora obzavestis svoei armiei v EU 500 milionov 4elovek ,, podkinim vam noveisie razrabotki lydi rabotajut nad etim ,,da i nado gotovit kosmi4eskie voiska ,, hrani vas bog
Kokia gali buti diskusija apie EU kariuomene? – PRIVALO buti tokia kariuomene ir TASKAS. Diskusija siuo klausimu baigta.
No its not
is t time to give away our liberty?
What if you had to chose between that and being at the mercy of small-scale dictators like milosevic, putin, or ghadaffi? Do you really hate your own country THAT much?
Max Berre I do not want to be a thief because she steals another one. NATO is the only real force and consists of independent, separated national armies, which are under their own flag. The national officer is responsible for immoral orders
Not really… Just look where Uncle Sam told us to bomb in Sirya. The armies aren’t under independant orders.
Army is for suckers and ill mental peoples.
I always said ‘yes’, but now I say ‘no’: I think EU has shown that they are not supporting freedom and democracy as much as they say; and they EU has shown that they can even allow a country to harm their citizens if this country is not ruled by Eurosceptics.
So, no, no EU army, and no, no more current EU: it should be reformulated to work for people, not for bankers, not for transnationals, and not for politician oligarchy
The only threat to UE is internal one, coming from islamization. The UE army would be dominated by Germany and could be used against member states of the union. EU army would disrupt the current balance of military power in the world, which would be unacceptable for current powers and would bring various consequences. It will be a failure similar to Lisbon Strategy.
b.s.
Yea the threat is internal one – It’s called Poland.
Iasen Kostov no. poland is ok. just some polish work with the dark side.
“Some” for Poland is a lot. They never seen an immigrant but went full retard Nazi there. Poor fuckers so easily manipulated by Russia it hurts.
swiss model
Simply impossible, we’re voting for europeans elections since 1979 and it’s changing nothing, good luck to have a swiss model!
Catalonia…………i think this proves ‘no’……. an EU army would be used more for internal supression than external agression. We do however need an Anti Corruption task force to combat the deceit and corruption of govts within the EU.
Sieg heil!
We need a minister of peace!
Are there people that are ready to die for EU?!
No but EU fanatics would be happy to send you into battle for their cause.
I could ask the same about whether people are ready to die for nationalists…
(That being even more likely, given the nationalists’ impeccable war record)
I supose that every member of the national armies is ready to die for his land.
Ernst Satvanyi “His land” – very funny statement :)
No way. We already have NATO, we don’t need more and more expensive supranational organisations.
With Trump, NATO is useless, and how expensive is it compared to being overrun by Russia, China or ISIS because Europe’s defences are fractured in divided nation-states?
BS comment.
The Nato chief had issued a warning to the EU back in 2015 regarding the jihadists infiltrating alongside the refugees but the EU politicians chose to ignore the warning. Would an EU army make a difference? I doubt. They will be controlled by the same incompetents.
China wants business and the conflict with Russia is at least as much the fault of NATO as Russia, plus the politicians sponsored by the weapons industry.
Stupid idea. We have NATO.
Of course yes. With an european common army, we could defend our interests againt american and russian imperialism. With this army, Gadaffi would’nt fall in Lybia and we could protect Syria from ISIS
Eu is peace, they said, no?
Remi grow up man, I see you commenting in every post saying the same bull crap … There is no peace without an army to keep it that way… Christ…
YES…
Yes and total unification of our economy, growth, debt, politics and let’s all speak the same language and believe in the same Divine God whatever he or she is…
EU ARMY? you’re going to be sorrrrryyy
No, an army with Merkel as commander in chief doesn’t sound like a good plan. We probably have to attack Russia and Israel, which are our allies. EU hates christians and jews.
Of course, and it is already happening in fact.
An EU army is essential for protecting EU borders-
EU is peace, they said, no?
Rémi Martin If you want to live in Peace,you should be well preparing for War- (Si vis pacem , para bellum).
A mixed EU Army is the idea of Satan. The idea of the EU Army shows that the EU wants to be a tyranny. NATO is more real force and proven internationally
1. In the 500-year Lithuanian-Polish Union there were separate armies and commanders, even.
2. Service under a foreign banner is against the Polish constitution and is punished (in time of peace) by a three-year prison sentence.
3. The Polish army has different traditions than all European armies.
– In Poland there were strict military codes (formally written down in the 16th century). Plunder of civilians and rapes on women were punished by death (and the worst punishment: loss of honor)
– The Polish army has never used landmines
– A Polish soldier always had the right to refuse to carry out an immoral order
P.S. I can not imagine that a Polish soldier will be under the orders of a foreign officer https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_wojska_polskiego
Wow, so much isolationist, it is funny coming from a pole considering that in both world wars the Polish soldiers which I don’t mean to disrespect were under foreign officers for multiple reasons. If the poles think they are that superior to other Europeans then they are better off alone I guess
You ll be no longer polish bro..you ll be European
Filolaos Vrakas
You do not read with understanding.
Polish soldiers fought on all fronts in Europe.
After losing the campaign in September 1939, Poles fought under the commander-in-chief of other countries (this is true).
But there is a fundamental difference !!!
The Polish Army was an independent armed force and organization, and it was the Polish Army:
– the banner was Polish
– the regulations were Polish
– former Polish officers
– The Polish Army was subordinate to the Polish government and under Polish law
And customs and morals were Poland. The Polish army was subordinate to the Polish government !!!
1. What is the opposition of soldiers to an immoral order when there are other soldiers?
2. Army without a banner, symbols on the cap and tradition is a band, not an army (like russians army in Crimea in 2014)
3. I know that Armies of other countries have very many crimes and their traditions are different (eg German). We remember what the international (French, Dutch and Belgian and Ukrainians) Vaffen SS troops were doing under German’s command
P.S. The EU army is scandalous, it is the goal of laughter and very deep indignation. !!! Point 1 disqualifies the EU army in this form !!! In 1830, the Polish Army rebelled when the Russians were to suppress the revolution in the Netherlands (the Polish Army was to be a “spear.” Polish 30-thousandth Army caused the November Uprising and saved the Dutch and Belgians revolution (and other German countries too) and a very grim and tragic fate. Frankfurt has the Polish emblem and the Polish flag. Do you think that this is the case?
The EU ( Germany and France) proposes something worse than the Russian tzar in the 19th century
I’m also not pro an EU army but saying NATO is a more real and proven force made me chuckle a bit… NATO really ?!?!??! The “Defensive” Alliance that has been leading wars on US request for the past 20 years and destroyed the middle east leading to a massive refugee crisis has absolutely no credibility!
RadThink Thank The Middle East and Africa were destroyed 200 years ago.
In 1913, there was a conference in Berlin, which divided Africa into colonies dependent on 7 European countries : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1934233520236434&set=a.1750979405228514.1073741826.100009494141635&type=3&theater
Today Africa is being exploited. Another issue is the extraction of tantalum for the production of capacitors for electronics.
Conflicts have been deliberately created in Africa for a long time. But this is not a reason to accept people without documents who risk to live beyond the Sahara
The EU was born out of WW2 and peace has bonded our nations together, Large and small nations former enemies and colonies now respecting each other as equals which has given Europe peace and strong living conditions. We dont need a unified army as we don’t need or want war no country would be crazy enough to attempt to invade or launch an attack on EU territory
The EU we have today was established in 1993 after Maastricht Treaty … Quite a long way since WWII.
Commercial market bands EU together along with colonizing and sucking the life out of eastern european member countries…srry mate thats the truth..the west has always lived off its “colonies”…
Austria Ireland Sweden Finland and Malta are neutral countries and their people wont want a common EU army.
Correct, we’d sooner leave Europe than send an army.
no – its a compelling argument
Are you really all so brain washed and willing sacrifice your families for the well being of savages, or this is just an NGO site with totally brainless payed trolls ? How come, none of you make any sense with his statement ?
Wtf, no? I can’t believe this is even up for debate. Don’t be fooled by the people’s enemy, those who would push for such a force. -American
EU is peace, they said, no?
The Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the EU from Turkey have shown everyone the dire need for establishment of a EU Defense Force.
That was the point of merkel to let them in so that there is a need for an army…you’re not that smart are you
why not just make a military alliance like nato but only for member states of the EU? every member has to spend a certain percentage of their GDP on defence etc etc
And who’s gonna to rule your armies? Santa Claus? EU is peace, they said…
who is ruling in NATO ? :P
Uncle Sam, like EU, who else? He’s always on the front… Proved by unclassified documents, look better at the EU’s origins, it was never a wish from peoples! Another thing, NATO has more reasons to exist since Warsaw’s Pact was broken.
then make a treaty in which if of one part of the EU is unprovokedly attacked all the other members have to come to its assistance each country will command its own army but it will be obliged to defend the member state being attacked
Hooray more alliances and treaties just like the ones that sparked WW1 world peace must be coming our way at last……not
so if a country is illegally attacked by another the eu should let it rot ?
Or simply leave it! We’ve seen where this play of alliances brought us last century; afterall, we’ve got the deterrence. ..
leave what ?
for what if you can´t fight al EU corrupted politians?
Babylon in politics, mess in economics, disaster for army (traditional enemies, balls, leadership, knowhow, supplies etc).
Eu was built to avoid the catastrophy of world wars and the imbalabce of a nation with the outmost economical power to destroy the rest. I would rather spend money on developing an education promoting humanitarian values to schools and businesses.
But not on wishes from peoples…
Phhfff no
Well, eastern european countries could do with some target practice so why not?
I don’t want our armed forces to be controled by some pretentious twat in bruxelles.
I was talking about our armed forces using EU’s army for target practice. :))
Well we may have to secure the western border against the frankish caliphate
I think, yes
Will this mean conscription for our youth & unemployed
No. We are a neutral country, always will be. I’d say we’d turn guns on our own government if they allowed that to happen, and rightly so. Nobody should be sent to die.
Of course not! An extra tool in the hands of EU political elites (think Merkel and Macron who control the decisions of Brussels) to prevent dissenting nations from breaking off.
Macron who controls the decisions of Brussels? LOOOL, can i laugh? He is not even able to ban a herbicide in France, what do you want him to control EU? Seriously…
Rémi Martin Well he’s Merkel’s lapdog in the making, so…
And she’s a pet from Uncle Sam, since over 72 years, so…
Yeah but it’s just Soros now, but then again, for the last eight years the whole US govt. was a Soros puppet under Obama…
NOT for EU army!!!
Long overdo !!
Yes is the only answer for such a number of reasons that would need a book to list and explain.
OK.. Give us the top 5 reasons..
Eu is peace, they said…
Vasco Almeida 1) one more piece to unite all Countries, 2) cost reduction 3) common weapon systems 3a) whose design cost is shared on more subjects and 3b) production investments (ships, tanks, airplanes) can benefit them all in term of high skilled jobs request 4) one EU army whose capability is not to be challanged that easy 5) military research always drops in civil technology enhancements 6) less dependance on US aerospace technology, EU has all the capabilities to build better airplanes at a lower cost, Airbus proves it every day.
drawbacks: 1) a huge army in the hands of a handful of non elected bureaucrats, 2)a huge detriment to national sovereign and domestic home policies, 3)..possible conflict with Russia, something that the EU elites and the military complex desires, but not Europe’s peoples , 4)and above all….huge power to the same Morons who are destroying Europe and would like to stablish a police state., 5) a muppet in the hands of NATO….in other words, the US and its antirussian mania.
Most of eu members are already in nato so why the fffkkk would you want to disband every national army and leave it to be controlled from brusselles??? Only a fool would do that…every country should have its own fkng army since NATO is already our big brother like they say
César Garcia obviouly ideology in your head Fides evidences. Where do you see Europe following US foreign policy these last years? see what happened with the recognition of Gerusalem as capital of Israel. Your view is completely wrong .
This is a detail… White have thé US a commissiar for european affairs in Brussels? Have got the EU one in Washington ?
Rémi Martin yes, the Delegation of the European Union to the United States
Let me guess, it will have Germany in charge? No thanks.
Hell yeah
Go to Hell with that army!
That’s a big issue which transends the casual fb comment section. Armies and democracy do not cope well. For such an installment to work, EU should offically become a proper federation. With central government, federal constitution and law. Like the US. Although considering this is europe after all, and the fact that the only successful political system of its kind is the USA thus far, i would say that such a thing would probably end in disaster. Personally i am very fond of the idea of creating a federal state with its own armed forces. It would solve a lot of issues, and we would no longer need to rely on NATO or anyone else.
Haha..no, usa is not the successful system..and i only have to say *american civil war* to state this fact :))) thats how succesful it was… The eu army will be just another instrument to implement their will on the smaller eu member *colonies* from the east…
By successful i meant it didnt result in the disbandment of the federation. The civil war was merely a result of Lincoln’s policies. Or so i have been told, it was not the political system itself at fault. Other countries that tried to imitate this system failed though.
What colonies, omg… the baltics would love an eu army to keep them safe from russia and bulgaria and romania are among the most eu friendly countries. The east needs a strong eu and knows it very well. Hungary being an exception.
yesss!
Of course not!
Of course yes!
Ok. Under condition that all countries leave NATO. We’re not joining any NATO country.
Of course not!
Of course not!
Army? For that you would have to cut expenses on bureacracy (but if you wish to make Europe a prey for chineses firms). But your moroncracy is based on the gold you distribute for imbeciles responsible for our national policies, to keep them docile towards the interests of the corporations that bribe the idiots on Brussels, and the cooperation of degenerates. This fact becomes quite clear when we compare our “western european politicians” to old pictures of great statesmen from the last two centuries or paintings and statues from older statemen. Even a moron will notice that the corporate boys that were promoted in Western Europe belong to what would become white trash in case the mechanisms of social mobility were working. What we have is clearly a cristalized system that is becoming more and more complex and will colapse in the first serious crisis. We would need to search for our best blood, people the same quality of a Putin or a Lavrov, to save Western Europe, and less ambicious plans. Military safety for Europe? That would be a reality if we did not relly for such a long time on the guarantees offered by americans and by the sabotage against national armies by the very same people that now propose a european army as solution. And, by the way, your true intention is a police force to be used against european citizens that oppose your idiocy.
Right on point
No thanks. It is time for the EU to dissolve.
You will regrets this desire.
I am a working man, I wont. I would regret if I were a bureaucrat.
Everyone will regret from the working man through the bureaucrats to company owners only a lose lose situation for everyone…
It’se time to unite Europe. Or we’ll be another world war soon or later.
Oh yeah. It is overdue.
The EU is an iconomic and peace above all union. What’s the point of it having an army?
To maintain that position.
That’s the Job of NATO
Its most definitely time to have a EU Defense Force , upgrading , expanding and transforming the current European Security and Defense Policy unit of the EU through the PESCO mechanisms to create a all professional EU Defense Force , creating a fortress European Union , to guard against external attacks like the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union , designed by Turkish officials too undermine and destroy the institutions of the European Union beginning with the European Institution of Schengen, by swamping the European Union will more than a million illegal immigrants .
Yea, let Germany form a large army. That’s never been a problem before. Oh wait a min……
No. Just no.
Why not?
You seem to be jewish or post in hebrew.
Do you know what happened last time Europe fell back into the nationalist abyss?
Only if it came with federalization, which will never happen because the Western “buddies” don’t want to share their resources with Eastern Europe or even the South.
This would be a major breakthrough for the EU and making it really emancipated from the US dominated NATO.
A big benefit for the Regions where tensions are possible.
Yes yes yes
Όχι στον Ευρωστρατο αν θέλουν να κάνουν μόνο οι χώρες γύρω από την Γερμανία
I think it’s a must.
George Boca ce ziceai =))
Eu cand am zis ca e hot topic=))
No Brussels is controlled by Eurocrats who are unelected and answer to no one,give them an armed force its a dangerous combination especially with more Right Wing thinking in Europe,anyone remember recent history?
Except they are elected.
Mind your business if you’re a brit.
This no longer concerns you.
Not looking for an aurgement,to rectify your comment i am SCOTTISH living in a EU country so will effect me just to be clear,i never got personal just tried to remind people of the recent history of europe and if any right wing power gets control of a large armed forces the saying “WE WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS” may be repeated.
I personally do not want to be forced to leave my family Because “i am Brit!!!” living in a EU country or forced to have a work visa after nearly 20 years, who knows even put in a camp like many German anti National Party followers before WW2 and many millions after!!just because of a right wing agenda that is becoming more popular with certain world leaders and parties these are odd times now !!!
Bryan Dow, wow mate, relax, get a beer, or better scotch but there were elections recently everywhere, people were explicit that reforms are required, not violence. We are europeans, right wing agenda has no ground since decades but still we need defence in order to deal with the challenges. Power misuse doesn’t have color, nation or political orientation.
No, we are a neutral country. We send peacekeeping forces through the UN. Fuck off with your EU Army. Save the warmongering for America and Russia. The last thing we need is the Germans trying to control shit again. The EU will disband if it continues to try and control the smaller member states.
Yes! We stronger together!
EU Army separated from NATO
We should start with single EU border guard
half of the European countries armies are a joke and some of them don’t even pay their NATO fee (hint Germany)!all the weight will fall to France Italy and Greece!
So insert a condition.
Either start paying or no EU army. Simple.
Armies where created to keep their countries free my friend Adrian!and those armies are only to be ordered by the country they serve and protect!
France is not in NATO
France is in NATO and is one of the founders!
As an Estonian i say no. It will be the last step to a european federation meaning a central government and the independece (that we have fought for hundreds of years for) for our countries will be lost. “Who trades little bit of freedom for security deserves neither and shall lose both” my homeland will remain free as says our constitution and thus it shall be.
“Thank you for you words” – Russia
Russia can be deterrd with NATO. But think about it, we are going to give up our independent state to join a federation…..IN FEAR OF ANOTHER FEDERATION TAKING OVER, DENYING OUR INDEPENDENCE AND JOIN THE FEDERATION. So it basicly freedom lost. Id rather take my chances with fighting them off either than willingly being somones slave.
Ok. This is not the best place to be having this conversation the simplicity of a yes/no answer here is not a contribution. The EU is not the USA we are not a federal organisation of counties we are an economic union. Counties like Ireland have held a netural stance on world affairs since there foundation which is what makes them such great peacekeepers. PESCO endangers the ability of counties to take a netural position when helping in the stabilization of war-torn areas.
This is for EU defense only.
And the EU is not just “economical”. That is just what brexiters think.
Ok well here’s my argument agree with it or not but as a European and as an Irishman I feel like European countries have too much history between them to have a functional federation yet. Without a functioning federation I don’t think something like European defence is a realistic idea as like everything when “there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians” (pardon the expression) there won’t be enough stability to properly control this kind of force effectively. It really is a matter of education and how we teach European history. Every country teaches its own history in the context of its own people. If we were to change the way we think about our neighbors in the context of “the old enemy” (for example: Ireland and England or Spain and France) then we have to look at how people are taught this.
Again this is just my opinion on this and I would stress I am only a student of international relations by no means and authority.
More armies… That’s the best we could come up with at this stage?
Thats the last thing we need…………………
It is time to repair the erors of NATO. To put a blue line between Rusia and UK USA. Is time for selfdefence but only if Europe finds its way to christianty, democracy, true respect to nations, world peace, respect for poorer non EU countries. European Army can be only like European policymakers.
No.
WE ARE NATO.
Stop the leftist propaganda.
an obviously intelligent and well informed individual
At least she’s not a food hating commie.
U r nato.But we r against terrorism, occupations and wars.So we r NOT nato.
Christian Ferné Stay with Putin then, with Juncker, Mogherini, Merkel … those who compromised the EU project through their left-wing policies: islamist migration, socialism, communist compulsory quotas, progressivism, stupid and nazi political correctness etc.
Success.
We want military alliance with US for protection against Russia and Islam.
Marxist elites from Brusselles pretend they want european army just in order to break alliance with US and sell Europe to Russia and Islam.
As conclusion: we want NATO, having US as leader.
Cut the marxist crap.
Stop drinking bleach…
No we dont want nato ocupation,agression and wars in Europe.If u want it-go to live in Usa.Europe is not Usa colony and slave.Theres nothing to protect here from Russia but from people like u who sell Europe snd europeans to Washington olygarchs and their warmongers.
My country was under russian or ottoman occupation for more than 500 years.
My grandfathers have been sent to extermination camps during communist regime, brought by russians invaders.
My grandnfathers were not part of any political party, but under communist logic at least 10% of population has to be exterminated – the best teachers, farmers, engineers…etc…the elite of the occupied country…so that country will never strike back against communism.
Thier generations have waited America for salvation. This hope have been passed from one generation to another.
Here they are, our ally, the americans.
It was the same in each country in East Europe.
Ask Georgia or Ukraine about last russian invasions and anexations…
You know nothing about these nigtmare stories.
But here, in East Europe countries, the reality is tough.
What can I say? If this is what you want, get out of NATO, and keep bringing rapefugees. Have a nice islamization.
My country was under russian or ottoman occupation for almost 500 years.
My grandfathers have been sent to extermination camps during communist regime, brought by russians invaders.
My grandnfathers were not part of any political party, but under communist logic at least 10% of population has to be exterminated – the best teachers, farmers, engineers…etc…the elite of the occupied country…so that country will never strike back against communism.
Their generations have waited America for salvation. This hope have been passed from one generation to another.
Here they are, our ally, the americans.
It was the same in each country in East Europe.
Ask Georgia or Ukraine about last russian invasions and anexations…
You know nothing about these nigtmare stories.
But here, in East Europe countries, the reality is tough.
And so far Europe started the wars and US brought the peace (ww1 and ww2).
And while East Europe was under russian oppresion during Cold War, russians which were killing the elites in East Europe, West Europe was defended by US-NATO and was benefiting of Marshall Plan.
But…what can I say? If this is what you want, get out of NATO, and keep bringing rapefugees. Have a nice islamization.
Neither islam, or russia or USA. Lets defend our own busines.
I don’t get, who brainwashed you that hard. You want to tell me that 500 mln europeans with the biggest GDP in the world should be affright of 150 mln russians, or some islamic barbarians? US are building a wall on their mexican border, they won’t be around if shit go wrong and rapefugees were brought after years long of US initiated war campaign, so believing that the EU and US interests can coexist and overlap forever is so naive and hippocratic that it resembles a Stockholm Syndrome.
Lol no. In other news, Marxism is still a bad idea.
Stop drinking bleach….it affects your mind.
Thank you for your concern but so far it has proven to be the best way of dealing with all the Marxists. One would have imagined that a hundred years of death, famine and poverty would have done the trick. Until then, bleach it is.
Yes, national states belong to the past. It’s time for European Federalism to grow stronger. Altiero Spinelli’s vision should become a reality..
Nope. The last thing Europe needs, is to give non-elected EU bureaucrats control over an army. Furthermore, the EU should always be on good terms with the US and with Nato. European armies, yes. A EU army, hell no.
I think a common Army is utopic since EU is not a single state in order to be able to control a common Army.
Europe needs something else, a common patrol of the external borders of EU, perhaps a military pact and alliance among the European members and a Common Military Centre which will organize military drills on different war scenarios in order the European Armies to learn to work together and be able to cooperate if a member-state is under attack.
Lol.
Let’s not unite the armies so when we get attackee to unite armies and waste time with a hundred command and control hqs.
/logic
Θα μπορούσε να γίνει. Όπως είναι και οι peacekeepers (κυανόκρανοι) του ΟΗΕ
Jéssica Pereira
Fdc
Diga-me miss Europe hahaha
Não fui eu que fui a um convivii
Hahahaha foi bué fixe
No. Armies shouldn’t be needed in a future world. (yes, I want a pink world)
Yeah cute.
Sadly you’re in the real world and there’s troubles in it.
Yes.
/end thread
All something like this would do is push more nations to the ideas of a brexit.
Only after Nato is gone, Washington olygarchs influence on Eu is gone and total Eu reorganization with new people.Otherwise Eu army will be the back door for Usa oligarchs as Nato is now.
not at all
Europe must be an only one country. So yes.
What? Never!
Why not? We have a common geografic space and common interest. Why not? We are all people.
Different people ;) And as you see through the comments, we dont all share the same interest
Sure!
What about stop letting migrants die?
We must ask permision from USA first.
How about stop trying to make a European Ethnostate?
Europe musted be a country or we will kill ourselves soon or later.
Sure, I’m in!
you would die so a few get rich really you want to die for bankers how sad
and what do you need it for is it for murdering humans in other countrys as you already do for the corporations to majke a profit or is it to murder the youth in the wars you will send them to as you did in the last 2 world wars in europe
Definetelly yes. Lets get out NATO and defend our own interests.
what a good joke….what do you smoke?
get out of nato,, why?
The EU armed forces can then kick Turkey out of EU member Cyprus.
Unlikely. 90% of the EU army will probably be turks from germany.
nor do we care about cypros if the last few years are any indication of it.
specially when they are still debating the entry of turkey to the eu
We dont need troops, stop the agenda of illuminatti people, study, your own dont exist thretas, the terrrosit are mecenaries hire by goverment, who need govermente if you are secure?
It is.
It is time to end the EU
Bad timing. EU’s reputation has never been lower since its inception. If it survives, then we can talk about a collaborative effort on the arms way. But the EU is on the verge of being disbanded by popular demand. People are usually too short-sighted and can no longer see the good things that came out of a EU (nor do they remember the bad things of a disbanded fiefdom-like Europe), so they’re now crying foul and ask for the end of the EU. I tell you something, and you can mark my words on this: if the EU falls (and it may very well fall, for the looks of it), soon enough a replacement will emerge again, because people will understand the betterment brought to everyday life by an united Europe. A divided Europe will never amount to much. “I shall divide and conquer” was already a certain absolutist’s motto. Only in unification do we stand a chance of being solid, respected and to actually matter. One of the mistakes of this current EU was that it tried to grow too much over too little time. These things take time. The next iteration of a European Union must take more time to achieve what it wants. Europe was always sort of problematic when it came to see things under the same scope. But, as said before, unity is the only way. A divided, scrambling and quarrelsome Europe is what our rivals (themselves unions, like the USA, Russia or China) want to see. They’re the ones that bask in delight with Brexit and the current disdain that Europeans themselves have towards the EU. Think about it.
It is time to move ahead and unite Europe. Europe must be one nation one army the strongest ever made in the world. And when no wars will exist ever in the European continent we will grow stronger in all sections UNITE EUROPE!!
thats what they said before WW1 and WW2…you-re a good joke man….
Europe has learned from her mistakes we will never do the same mistakes people did one centure ago back then had hatred in their hearts and a very good example actually the best example is germany and France once huge enemies now they have even greater relations than England and France had once. Europe is evolving and growing accept the fact the great European states are coming in the few 5-10 years from now.
One life and today fishes!! Piks la moon! 336 LELE.
δεν εισαι σοβαρος! XD
I’M FIRED FISHES, I’M DOING MY HAIR PERMANANT!
Of course it is, but it’s impossible until NATO, USA, UK and other allies will interfere.
They could form an eu army in the standards of the UN peacekeeping force , where all the countries-members should participate with some units
you have NATO for that… you ppl really like to be manipulated I see
Absolutely NO. First you have to explain what’s wrong in NATO partnership.
[Echo positive] Absolutely NO. First you have to explain what’s wrong in NATO partnership.
We must make a choice.There is not a middle way , we even proceed with more integration (financially,politically and militarily) to a federal union or we disband eu
I’m strongly support the first one
Depends if it will be a defensive or offensive arrangement. To defend themselves from Russia? No problem. To intervene in Africa and the middle East? Then that leads Europe down a very dark road.
A European Army is a MUST, since all the member states face the same threats (uncontrolled mass immigration, Jihadism, strong military regional powers etc).
Also, Europe is an Economic giant but with a weak voice in the World since none respects your opinion if doesn’t afraid of your guns. For example, if a European Navy patrol in East Mediterranean and the Aegean Sea, Turkey could not blackmail Europe using the immigrant/refugee flows as a political tool.
Sounds like balance of power shit
The only threat ‘all’ 27 member States face is from Brussels and it’s pro EU fanatics.
Se should not forget the Russian threat. It’ s not relevant for the Western countries, but is a real headache for their Eastern partners, considering them partners.
Should have been long time ago
Yes. But don’t misuse it.
YES !!!
One army would be a lot more efficient than 27. We could start small and coordinate air defence, then the corps of engineers and so on. Step by step.
I think the second world war ended 72 years ago. The victors, now in decline, try to keep the memory alive, but the present and the future demands new thinking. Europe should be united to remain european.
They said that about a shared border and a shared currency, how did they turn out ?
Gustav You mean ‘united’ in the sense of one nation ruling the others as Germany did in 1944 and Germany does now ? You really have learnt nothing from your history.
It was Nationalism that stopped Germany from uniting Europe under one flag then & it will be Nationalism that stops Germany ruling Continental Europe now.
Yeah, keep the memory alive, exactly my point…
Ivan this is probably one of the only things we agree on 😜
Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers I’m sure there is more we agree than disagree on, the disagreements just happen to be fundamental to the survival of Western civilisation. :)
I’m not sure more division will mean more diversity. We should stand united in some ways, in order to continue being diverse in other. 27 different armies doesn’t contribute to Europes greatness, it’s a historic political relic.
Europe is peace, they said…
My be it is too late …
No! I’m afraid of Spain, Poland,… so many facist states
Brussels will need it’s army to protect it’s empire from the 27 Nation States in the EU. It will be interesting to see them send German troops into Poland to keep the Poles under control.
Yes we need a european army if we want EU to have a significant impact in its neighbourhood and not only. However an EU army implies that there is a political authority/government which gives order to it and this is clearly not the case in theEU nowadays…
A big YES
Yes, it is!
What a sick idea. No, thank you. Poland has had enough of it, especially from Germany. You sound like you’ve never learnt history.
Yeah, right, because we had an army of Europeans and for Europeans under the democratic control of European countries when for the last time? I don’t know what history they taught you in school… :D
Ha Enn Yeah, no worries about my education :D I’ve learnt enough to know that there’s no such country like Europe, that there has never been solidarity among European countries – Poland has been left alone and betrayed by West European countries too many times, not to mention our experience of World War II and German invasion on Poland – the only country whose government did not collaborate with German Nazis. I hope you know what happened in Yalta Conference and what devastating consequences it brought for Poland for so many years under Soviet regime. Poland has always had to fight for its independence and if you knew history, you’d be more careful about this issue…. What’s more, in EU there’s the Germany-France hegemony and there’s no real democracy in EU. Being economically strong, Germany puts its own business ahead of other EU countries’ business.
So, what’s waiting for Poland to leave EU?
Of course and a good plan for training different bodies to different states together with a good plan for which country produces which weapons. This will help reduce overlapping and avoid too many forces at one state.
No, we should maintain 27 individual armies with their individual administrations, even though we share essentially the same geopolitical interests and threats. Who would have oversight over such a European army? The European Parliament? The European Commission? Everybody knows that they have not a single shred of democratic legitimacy and are utterly corrupt. Moreover, we should under no circumstances cooperate with regard to procurement and we should stop integrating the coordination of our national defences. Considering Trump’s stalwart commitment to NATO and his pacifist attitude, creating a parallel military alliance dedicated to the security interests of Europeans is completely superfluous.
Doesn’t make sense? Neither do nationalists.
But for many of the Eu, is moving far enough.
As the project is to build an EU army such as the U. S. army ; it means : – the same tank , same weapons , and same uniforms as well. Obviously I over disagree , that’s because I don’t dink is wise to sell our soldiers in far off places to spoil their lives in the Middle East or Africa.
We are paying our mistakes in Africa about our slavery delivered to them – do you really think we will welcome back in Africa?.
Let’s that UN goes.
Europeans once again line up to give away the freedoms millions of people gave their lives for. You have learnt nothing from your history.
How many will you kill this time to unite Europe under one flag, 100 million, 200 million, more ?
Ivan Burrow – there was not talk about the Gheddafi death , in which the ex-PM Cameron got involved too and , with the Berlusconis’ accomplishment let the fake immigrants to get into the EU? ; not even about Biaffra and Camerum either ? .
What did you expected about?, not sure the Africans care anymore about an European army around.
Try to tell it to them? .
[…] , both Polish and Hungarian ( may you allows up to 6 East countries ) ; are paying their price for delivered their slavery to Africa: – 0 , says 0 terrorist attacks.
Who ‘d envy them?.
@Ivan
Europe is peace, they said…. I believe they lied!
no —–> NO MORE ARMIES IN THIS UNIVERSE !!!!
Yes :)
If you stop the obligation army in Greece .to goo for free is the only EU country.
Trending freedom for protection ?
Παυλος Χαραλαμπους what freedom Greece belong to german!and the yang boys the e work for free NO money.
EU army that fights against what or who? All wars are developed and planned and if there will be army, then there will be conflicts.
“Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war.” Albert Einstein
an army does not mean a war nor even conflict. This is imo not a question for if we need or do not need an army. But more a question of how will we use that army.
ps the conflics already exist and thats also why we need an european army.
They want a Brussels army to keep the people in the EU under control, it as nothing to do with protecting them.
Ivan –
You clearly believe your own fairy tales
Before the uk referumn it widely said by the eu that there would not be a eu army funny how times change and so quickly too
funny how greece has a large opposition but keep crying about turkish planes.
Funny how EU fanatics ignore the Turkish planes, Erdoğan owns the EU.
Yes..
an EU army would only be another tool to further make the european people less and less free.
plus the EU is not a country so it does not need an army.
That’s what needs to change.
Marco Nobody but a handful of fanatics want a United states of Europe, try forcing it onto people and you will have another bloody European world war.
Ivan –
No, if we stick together, respect our differences and share the same values, there will be no bloody war. You’re the one who wants a Europe before WW1 and we all know were this ends.
It’s time humanity started acting as civilised and diplomatic as we think we are, and resolve conflict with a compromise fair to all before it deteriorates irrevocably into war (i.e. organised mass murder.)
Competition for resources never need reach the point of conflict, as long as we maintain healthy population levels and don’t hoard or take what isn’t ours out of greed.
Conflicts of ideology, of nationality and ethnicity are all so illogical and unnecessary because we should be united under the banner of a single race, a single global identity, and a single acknowledgement of universal truths fundamental to us all.
invest in green energy and good food organic and bio not in war … my answer is NO. tks
Yes, to be more efficient, less costs and less dependent on the US.
Nope it will be Babel’s tower
Παυλος Χαραλαμπους
Explain why
Erik more efficient? Hmmm imagine been attacked from Turkey for example and having to wait until 28 Parliaments come to a decision to react or not..
Waiting for the 28 is ridiculous and the veto system needs to change for sure. The EU how it is today is far from perfect, but thats no reason to trow it all away. We have to work to make it more efficient to counter the problems of tomorrow. And thats the same for an EU defense. There is no alternative.
IF YOU STOP THE IMMIGRATION , WE DONT NEED ANY ARMY … SIMPLES AS THAT.
Yes, it is the time!
To help more migrants get in safely.
That’s a dictator dream!
No way it won’t work
Just think about it a simple immigration crisis and no one wanted to share the burden with the countries of the south
What will happen in case of a real war? Who will come to risk his neck for what he / she consider an alien world?
Just be realistic we can have if we like to some task forces here or there but a full army
It’s a foolish idea
It already has 28
Without any doubt!
There will be no EU soon
No. NATO is enough.
Yes,
Yes, in fact they already work together, this week a joint exercise was held in Portugal, the air force of the various European countries.
And last week was the army and mechanized force.
It’s about time. So who will be European enemy NATO?
Yes. With training of specific bodies at specific countries.
Yes… Why not?
Why not ? How about to stop the rise of yet another dangerous ideology ? Twice before lunatics with a plan to unite Europe under one flag have decimated Europe so why would you do it again ?
Back to Europe before WW1, is that what you want?
yes cmon how many times the same question… the faster the beter
We must take back the Americas. :)
The Wehrmacht will rise again.
You in that dump American wannabe country. So no longer your concern., time to head over to the Daily Express
Tim Nick Knight Good afternoon Comrade, how goes your war against democracy ?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/910570/Poland-European-Union-judicial-reform-funding-threat
Ivan
Oh pls 🙄… stay in your isolated island and don’t bother us any longer
Erik You have it the wrong way round comrade, we are leaving the insular EU and rejoining the free ‘world’. We are the first …. but we will not be the last. :)
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/964445/Italy-Italian-politics-news-anti-EU-withdrawal-M5S-Lega-latest-Giuseppe-Conte-MP-video
Ivan –
Well, feel free, but dont come weaning for equal trade agreements afterwards
It’s not going to happen, Germany has given up, Italy is on the way out and with Euroscepticism on the rise across the block Brussels will be lucky if it can pass any policies after 26 May 2019 never mind a pointless EU army .
Says a guys who’s country now regrets Brexit, but will not alow another vote
Tim We regret leaving the pointless EU ?! only in the minds of pro EU fanatics at the Guardian comrade lol
Long long overdue time!
Just heard the news.
When killing defenceless children becomes something to celebrate maybe Western society deserves to be consigned to the history books. A very sad day for humanity.
May God preserve the butcherer Children and dam the murders.
For now I trust more NATO than a EU army way too friendly to Russia. Europa is too keen to forget the terror acts comited by NKVD and it’s descendents.
No – not until the EU is accountable by and for the European peoples. Have we not learned anything from our history? Until then the member states need to step up and ensure they are paying their way into NATO as subsidised by the US, UK and France.
Its irrelevant because NATO is competent of defending its members.
Haven’t we already been asked this on numerous occasions?
No. Because some politicians of certain countries behave like dictators.
There is only one unelected political dictator in the EU, your President Juncker.
Of course it is, how else will Brussels keep its Nations under control when they do not follow Brussels dictates.
But don’t worry, we will be watching and if required we will once again free you from the yoke of totalitarian madness.
Thanks, Ivan. I’ll sleep better tonight. 😍
Michael Good 8|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG-jspYRkco
Michael Good 8|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG-jspYRkco
Debating Europe And the plan is ‘nothing’ to do with the EU. :), its a National intergovernmental agreement.
Hi Ivan, the UK has signed up to the plan.
No . Step too far
Ireland never invaded any country, so if you wants your army’s to build your kingdoms do iton your own blood.
What makes you think Brussels will allow you to chose ?
Yes !
No because it will give brussels an actual military force to work and suppress anyone who disagrees with them as well as it adds a link to NATOs response time as the EUarmy first sees that it is incapleble of doing anything and then after several meetings and plans THEN tells NATO to step in and then nato needs time to plan ect. Adding another link to an already long process is quite frankly retarded. 60 hours it takes for russia to invade the baltic, time is of the essence.
Do you even hear yourself?
Vladimir oookey, then answer, why is this EU force needed, when we already have NATO?
Vladimir oookey, then answer, why is this EU force needed, when we already have NATO?
Just in case people are unaware of the facts missing from this misleading story the ‘European defence intervention group’ has nothing to do with Brussels, the EU or any part of EU legislation.. It is a purely an agreement between Sovereign Nation States..
Yes, as soon as possible
No way!
YES !
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer !
You have learnt nothing from your history.
Yes yes yes ‼️
First should get permission from the NATO. North Atlantic Alliance, is an intergovernmental military alliance between 29 North American and European countries. The alliance is based on the North Atlantic Treaty that was signed on 4 April 1949.The European Union (EU) signed a comprehensive package of arrangements with NATO under the Berlin Plus agreement on 16 December 2002. With this agreement, the EU was given the possibility to use NATO assets in case it wanted to act independently in an international crisis, on the condition that NATO itself did not want to act—the so-called “right of first refusal”
Yes.
I have no interest in spending money or wasting my life for “europe”. I’ll have to pass on that.
this question again?
While that is true, I feel as though the “is it time for an army” question surfaces at least once a month.
Personally, I’m in favor, but I don’t think anything that has happened in the past month is going to convince either the previous supporters or the previous skeptics to change their stance
It’s not everyday that the US President threatens to break up NATO, so we thought it would be relevant.
In Republica Moldova, Presedintele RM, Presedintele Parlamentului RM, Prim Ministrul al RM, sunt angajati de catre NOI – Poporul RM, adica de catre Statul RM, in conditiile articolului 49 a Codului Muncii al RM, in calitate de “MUNCITORI NECALIFICATI!” – CE PARERE AVETI???
In Moldova, president rm, President of the rm parliament, Prime Minister of rm, are employed by us – the people of rm, i.e. by the state of rm, under article 49 of the rm labour code, as ” workers workers!” – what do you think???
Putin really hopes you do, he would be in Brussels within the week.
can they afford will every country pay up.. they are avoiding paying for nato
Pay up and he won’t. Stop expecting shit for free.
EU ARMY NOW
Why & who is going to pay for it ?
Together we are stronger and instead of paying for national armies and duplicate costs, we do more and cheaper as a Union.
Leonardo Monteiro If you believe what you say why not just use NATO as 29 strong countries will always be cheaper and stronger than 27 weak countries ?
I’d go for a single NATO army. But that would have other complications – the USA would never go for it, and there are no political structures in NATO to support that.
Leonardo So how would it be cheaper if the USA and the UK are not involved in the protection of the EU ?. Most EU countries cannot afford what they are paying now so where is the money going to come from & what will you do with the like’s of Ireland who would refuse to join your EU army, invade them & force them to except it ?
EU countries (Exc.UK) make up for the 2nd biggest defense budget in the world. Hardly “not being able to afford” anything. But much of the money is wasted, either in duplicated structures, or duplication of Weapon systems (Ex. US has 1 MBT, EU has 5). Regarding countries not wanting to join – I am sure you have seen the latest progress on PESCO, and its all voluntary.
Leonardo thank you
Leonardo Where on earth do you get the idea 2nd biggest defence budget in the world from ? The UK, France & Germany make up 60% of the budget on their own so without the UK who is going to make up that shortfall ? Italy, Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania & Poland ?
You are living in a dream world comrade and the reality is Putin would be sipping Vodka in Brussels within a week against a joke EU army & the National governments know it which is why they will appease Trump and start paying their 2% promise to NATO.
09/13/2018 Rose Gottemoeller, Deputy NATO Secretary General, has responded to this comment.
09/13/2018 Amanda Sloat, Robert Bosch senior fellow at the Brookings Institution’s Center on the United States and Europe, has responded to this comment.
France, Germany and Italy spend alone 100 Billion – the remaining EU members other 100 Billion, there are plenty of source for this (Here, for example https://www.sipri.org/databases/milex)
Well, if Putin could be sipping vodka in Brussels against a proper EU army, then he could be sipping vodka right now. So more the reason to do something. Its not like we can count on the US. Or the UK.
Leonardo
Putin owns Merkel though the Nord Stream gas lines so who says he isn’t ?
The USA, UK and the rest of the free world saved you twice before, why the hell would we send our people to do it again ?
The definition of Stupidity is repeating the same actions and expecting a different result and you want to again attempt to unite all Europe under Ein Volk – Ein Reich – Ein Fuhrer, sounds pretty stupid to me.
a) Sure, Putin owns Merkel, Trump, and my cat. b) Actually you didnt save “my” people. You did threaten us with war once, though. c) You really need to get over your German obsession.
Leonardo No the way the EU has behaved you cannot count on the UK anymore thats a fact.
Leonardo It didn’t take you long to slip into the anti British racist rant did it comrade lol
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana
It is the the perfect description of all EU fanatics.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/
lol British racist rant? If its b), its history. Google 1890 Ultimatum. If its C), well, you snowflake, that was aimed specifically at you, not the British.
Sorry, but not for us this EU army, we showed twice last century where this game of alliances brought us!
Yes, and arm it only with EU-made weapon systems.
This should have been done a few years ago! We’re already almost too late for this, get it done fast!
No! Anyway Europe was save two times by Russia and US Armies. Than Europe was developed under the Cold War when The Soviets Republic and US spended more for nuclear weapons.
TODAY for what we need EU Army? We intend to have wars with Russia, or US, or Both :) If will be Both, we will loosse the War ?!?!
BETTER is to stop wars and to reduce money for Armies, also Russia, also US.
It’s not for the purpose of fighting with anyone, just for the purpose of stopping others with their own armies from bullying the EU into doing things against our own economic interests. Turkey, Russia, USA, China… If we don’t have our own army, others will tell us who to do business with and how much to pay for security. 4% sounds good to you?
George Titkov
So why would you hand over control of your armed forces to Berlin ?
I rather have it in Berlin than in Washington. But we both know that saying it will be in Berlin is actually a straw man.
Mick Wijnen like hell it is , they control the vile EU make NO mistake about that
George Titkov Why we need army for economical interest, finally this means wars, like WW1 and WW2.
Why Turkey? It’s a NATO’s member.
Finnaly we may be the first european generation without War, except the stupidy from Iugoslavia (I don’t know in english).
First Europe must resolve the diference between life standard of the EU members ?!?! Second I don’t believe in the futute of EU without UK and Russia.
Third it’s obvious that the big enemy of NATO could be only Russia in Europe.
Could be also China, but i believe that they have a big problem to resolve their internal standard of life for each chinease people, yet.
Of course that 4% is stupid, also US spendings for Armies, three Times more than all the rest of countries in the globe. Or here it seems to be more private interest of this industry than the interest of simple people from each country ?!?!
It is urgent. Europe cannot rely only on Nato. Mostly now that the USA is ruled by a mad man.
By that you mean he wont allow the US to pay for the EUs defence anymore?.
Stephen We pay for our defense as much as China and more than Russia, we even let you use our fields for your interests. Leave and never come back unless of couse someone decent returns to the white House.
BOT
We could base it in Scotland.
Crazy Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe have tried that many times before, you always lose lol
You never disappoint me, Ivan. 😘
Why Scotland? So we could have a good scrap? because you would lose😂😂
We could base it in Scotland.
No. Sovereign states have armies. International or regional organizations do not and should not.
No United Nations or blue helmet army?
Manuel Blue helmets are lent by sovereign states for specific missions.The UN does not possess any military forces of its own.
I would say not completelly and there is a shared militairy component on a European level
While we are at it, exceptions for certain nations.
Belgium for example doesn’t need a mandatory amount of aircrafts
EU is not a regional organizations, instead it has assumed some functions of a sovereign state of all member states such as a unified Euro currency, without national boundary, unified citizenship…. Collective security of EU requires an EU army.
Yes. The EU needs to be abe to defend itself and work together in UNO missions more efficiantly. There is however the issue of countries that are not members of NATO liek Austria or Sweden. Another question would be if a European army would replace existing militaries (What would be the only effficiant model, Having 27 armies plus an EU army would not increase efficiancy (Only if every army would purchase the same equipment.)) Finally, should an EU-army be able to form aliiences (NATO) and if so, support e.g. the US in an offensive conflict (Irak, Afghanistan) !? I would say denfensive alliance yes, offenive no.
A “European army” seems absurd at this point and in the near future, no nation will accept that loss of sovereignty. But this trumpian extravaganza at the NATO summit should be a powerful impulse towards a stronger European military and defense union and less dependency and subservience towards the US, a presidency of dunces shouldn’t be calling the shots or leading anything. Donald might be a mere accident, but Europeans should start to consider long term alternatives to this Atlantic alliance.
go for it remember well that u sat on your very fat burger filled asses whilst the uk and Canada FORUGHTt the forces of evil off usa cowards LETS GET YOU KICKED OUT OF ALL CONVENTIAL INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATIONS OH YEAH ……….
Anthony please take your medicine dear
OH NO THE REVERSE IS SO TRUE THERE ARE THOSE WHO ACT IN THE FACE OF IMMEDIATE THREATS AND THEN THERE ARE COWARDS AND VASCILLITIORS SHUSH CANT BE YOUR HOME COUNTRY LOL………….
No No and No as a ex British solider i would never fight for the EU , my oath is to Queen & Country .
So it seems
Army is strong arm of diplomacy
Diplomacy is expression of sovereign foreign affairs policy
Sovereign foreign affairs policy means sovereignty
Thus NO WAY TO HAVE TRISTABLE EUROPEAN ARMY WITHOUT EUROPEAN SOVEREIGNTY
Thus without minimum federalism it is no time for EU army
Não há a minima das dúvidas, deve se constituir imediatamente um exército dentro da UE, não podemos toda a vida depender da seguranca do EUA, que como sabemos é o que é, neste momento um lacaio de Putin. A UE é muito mais que a NATO
There is no doubt about it, it must immediately be an army within the EU, we cannot all life depend on the security of the USA, which as we know is what is now a PUTIN LACKEY. The EU is much more than NATO
Yes, it is time. Now, not latter.
ΤHE DREAM OF HITLER COME TRUE
F..K OF
You can’t trust the Germans. You play Justin Bieber. They start marching …
Economic security requires military hard power to sustain. For example now the US has ordered the whole world not to buy Iran oil. If buying Iran oil serves EU interest, if EU has no army, it cannot protect its sea route. The security concern of EU and the US are actually going at different direction, particularly in this Trump administration, the US has been threatening EU and superimposing trade war and values on EU,it is only with an independent army, EU can be secure its own interest independently.
The EU countrys needs a bigger Military and Intelligence services cooperation without trying to create a “european army”. The fact than the most EU memebers are members of the NATO (they have to spend 2 % of they’re interior gdp) does give a term
on the idea of having a EU army. Before thinkig of such things, the EU institutions needs to create an unique Foreign Affairs Institution (call it however you want).
Yes, and many more.
Yes. Its Urgent.
Hah , just becouse the little Macron said it ?!?!?! We need peace , prosperity , not playing war games which taxpayers are paying
Who will ultimately be in charge of this European Army, who will decide which conflicts my loved ones will be deployed to fight in?
The fact you have posted this question on Remembrance Day when we are honouring our fallen and the 100 year anniversary of WW1 is actually very insulting and you should be ashamed.
Why would a trading bloc need an army….???? Hmmmm I wonder why.. ….
EU needs its own army. And all foreign military bases should be removed from European soil.
No, absolutely not. It’s time to go out from €U and to create new political, economical and military agreements. Otherwise this army would be a mix of the old Wehrmacht and de l’Armée française. We are not slaves of Berlin and of course not of Paris. Go away immediately from this €U-Prison following the British example.
Not before the EU is seriously reformed and the power to govern themselves is returned to the membering nation states. The last thing we need now is a military force that could be abused for EP partisan politics. I am sure the bureaucrats from Brussels would love to send military forces to Hungary and Poland right now.
Hungary and Poland would be part of it, Duh…
Yes, a small one with terorrizing tech: nukes orbital cannons and autonomous attack drones and bots
No. It’s time to live up to NATO requirements.
Primeiro deveria ser fundado o Estado Democrático europeu. Só depois as demais instituições. Enquanto os europeus não forem capazes de fundar um Estado Democrático Europeu não estarão à altura das suas responsabilidades históricas e o mundo não terá paz. Viva a Europa como Pátria das Pátrias. Honra e glória aos que morreram nas duas grandes guerras pela paz e pela liberdade!
The European Democratic State should first be founded. Only then the other institutions. As long as Europeans are unable to establish a European Democratic State, they will not live up to their historical responsibilities and the world will not have peace. Long live Europe as the homeland of homelands. Honor and glory to those who died in the two great wars for peace and freedom!
More than time for a European army. We need a strong union to tackle with the Russian aggressor as well as the American ally. Go for it!
WE DO NOT NEED POLITICIANS.
THAT IS A GOOD START 👊👊✌
I think it’s time….
Yes and scrap the local one so we can save a lot of money.
The type of army wonted by Macron against US?
Pay the bill in NATO instead of creating a useless duplicate
Yes!!!!
Detached from the E.U….yes. Independent from Brussels…..and with Britain,of course.
We do not trust our neighbours to pay their debts, but we trust them to run our armed forces. So the army will be unified, but if you need to borrow money from the international markets to pay for it… good luck! Every country for itself.:p
Yes, if only just to create a power balance
Yes!
Decision speed is so slow that we’ll have to raise the question directly to Vladimir Putin.
It’s been long overdue.. OF COURSE!!
Yes, it is time for an European army and I strongly support Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Macron in their clear statements towards it.
A European Army is better than paying protection money to the US !
Yes it is time for a European Army. It is better than paying protection money to the US.
Let’s just wait and see what happens with the US and their military support. Without them we would have to scramble for something, anything. But right now we’re fine.
Let’s end the US military occupation first, before corrupting an EU future military while building it under occupation.
Yes
NEVER!!! Each country with his own army. Never submit to anyone command but ours.
Where were the Portuguese on the exact day 1 of January, year 1000? Who was fighting on that day for this land and people? was not the Portuguese certainly…
There are many reasons why the European Union needs a common defense, that is our own armed forces among others:
1) We waste resources with too many different type of armaments with huge loss in competitiveness
2)It is utter nonsense for half a billion Europeans with literally millions of men and women in their armed forces to have to depend on a foreign power composed of 100 plus million people less to ensure it’s security.
Without your own armed forces no territory can feel sovereign, no matter how close your allies are to you any power answers to it’s own policy makers and executive powers and we do not share the same view of the world as our friends whose government does not reside within the EU’s borders.
I totally agree with ALDE approach for the issue. It’s essential the creation of EU army to be accompanied with further more unification of the EU in terms of foreign policy and economy otherwise the use of the army could be problematic given that we will have at least 25 nations participating. I think, now without Britain and it’s veto, it’s time to have European Commissioners with increased powers, something like national ministers but in European level.
Now, without Britain and it’s veto, it’s time to move for an EU army, Europe will be a true global power only with a strong army to back its policy. It’s essential the creation of the EU army to be accompanied with further unification in terms of foreign policy, military research, economy and social. Otherwise it could be problematic given that we will have at least 25 countries participating at the European army, I think its time to have European Commissioners with extended powers something like the national ministers but in European level.
Fine….as long as European governments agree to at least triple military spending….agree unified force command – consolidate procurement (no more national champions) – have single political structure to determine deployment and rules of engagement etc…etc…..when that happens, you can wake me up !
It is time for new deal in nuclear, to save europe and world
EUROPE (GERMANY’S APPROACH WAS WRONG AND FED THE ANTI-EUROPEAN FEELINGS) FAILED TO DEAL WITH EUROPEAN ECONOMIC CRISIS. WE NEED TO THERAPY THAT PROBLEM FIRST, AND PROVE THAT WE ARE UNITED IN REALITY, AND THEN YES, WE CAN ESTABLISH A EU ARMY.
A European Army is a must.
All these years the Europeans depend on NATO (the Americans) for their Defence and Independence. As long as we depend only on NATO we have to serve the Americans interests.
This is the reason why European soldiers are in far Afghanistan. The Americans guarantee your independence and borders, so the Americans give orders to you. 1+1 = 2, not 3
Finally, all the European states spent billions to buy expensive American weapons than cooperate to build our own as a team, something which will reduce the costs..
You think europe does not make weapons?, only weapons (that i know of) that estonia owns that are americans are the anty tank missiles, all the other weapons are either, german, swedish, danish or israili. Europe makes and uses way more than you think.
i know that Europe makes some weapons. I mean to join forces and produce weapons all together.
For example, if the French-Swedes-Germans join forces and make a European Fighter that all the European members buy then the price of this Fighter will be less expensive for the member states.
Even though i agree with you a common european army may be to much a thing for some european countries to swallow lets begin first with creating an exclusive european millitary alliance
i don’t disagree. The European members can sign a Defence Pact, they can create a European Task Force (only for Defence if a European member is in need) and plan joined military drills in different war senarios.
Yes!!!
Yes, to invade Little England
The EU army, what for? Why not befriend Russia?
Russia wants to mess up Europe
Yes! And a federal Europe.
What a nonsense. Like everything else in EU…
This is not a good idea in these times. The EU is divided in these days more than before. The EU is in crisis and we have a serious debate of common interest. We have no toward a trully full-fledged European foreign policy (condition for the existence of army). Beside, this idea is not new. Once suffered fiasco, because EU is of a different nature 😉
It’s about time!!!
No, no and no
A ridiculous idea!
Yes it is
Is this still a question?
yep long overdue. Lets replace the nationaleties in NATO with EU only
No. Any reason for a EU army. Stop military blocks. We have Nato and problems enough.
YES
No, we must not give an actual military power to the brussels bureaucrats. We are independent nations, and we will NOT submit our freedom to one power in fear of another.
independence requires the ability to raise defenses. I understand how the vlads and the federovs of the world might feel threatened by the rising unification of Europe
Does that mean you think NATO should stop all the combined military exercises they do all the time, under the command of a single officer from one of the armies involved? Also, there has never ever been a suggestion that Bxl civil servants, of all people should run any army, where you get that from I can’t imagine, it would obviously be silly. Mrs TM
Going for the “Brussels bureaucrats” trope, I see. Did you not vote in the elections for your Head if State and MEP? What freedoms do you think you are losing – give a list.
Rossia must be stopped
why, is it threatning any country?…
The Invasion and Anexion to her neighbourhoods contrys
May I just say as a British citizen that a 2nd referendum is an eventuality and so I believe that the only way to prevent war on a world-wide scale would be to have a single army for Europe that is subject to the whims of it’s citizens. The two world wars would never have occured if Europe had been united.
Maybe it should just pay what it owes to the NATO
Time, its been time. We need a strong EU military buying our own equipment. The USA should not be an occupation force. The wars ended over 70 years ago.
Yes!
It’s been long overdue.
So yes, ASAP!
Indeed, as Marios Nicolaou sais… To do what? Are we in any kind of immediate military threat? A!… Ok… Stop funding NATO. Spend on EUTO😂 or something…
A EU army would better use resources for defence than a big number of countries. There would be less generals to pay, large economies due to scale and a more standardised aquisitions with significant logistic advantages. The same budget would mean a much improved army.
That’s a theory, and the theory for big happy European family (union) is nice, but became such a disaster for the taxpayers!
So, you are telling me that removing most of the command sector from all the states would benefit their security? Only if they want to fight for the Germans and French lol
EU army means that you would have to centralize your military towards a place that doesn’t care about your own interests, that means that smaller nations would eventually become canon fodders for the bigger ones, like France and Germany.
No thanks. Fight your wars without me.
WHAT?
FIND BETTER POLITICIANS WHO CARE FOR PEOPLE
Yes cause the Putin Government will test every EU border. Because we cannot defend easily with individual armies. We will be less dependant of the USA and that orange baffoon or any other time they elect a retard. And we can deal with any test of our European Beliefs.
EU Army….when there is UN Army.
It will be Waste of Time and Resources
FIRST IS TIME TO FIGHT CORRUPTED POLITICIANS, ANSD OFSHORES
The European Union needs its own army to defend the values, freedoms, and European civilization of foreign interference that can affect what we have today. The unity of the countries makes us stronger. Let’s never forget what happened on September 11 in the US.
Really, no 😀! The European countries always had theirs values, freedom identify before EU………now it’s a chaos, organized chaos. Huge bureaucracy to maintain, euro elite members of Soros’s Open society organization ( which is pushing the mass immigration) , corruption…………..should I
continue………
And September 11, yeah, that’s a big big question mark what’s really really happened there. How 6000 ( don’t remember the exact number) people died for someone’s agenda.
Wow creating an enemy to hold your argument…
Let’s not forget what Warsaw Pact and YPA had done to the states that demanded some level of sovereignty… There is not such thing as EU nationalism in the heads of people, so stop pretending that you can compare EU to USA… I sure won’t fight wars for French and German imperialistic interests. For defensive role we have NATO, EU army is more than a defensive alliance.
Battle groups are not used so why a EU army?
An european army means the end of NATO.
Yes, please!
Yes, it is time for Europe to have its own European Army or a European NATO at least.
As long as the European countries depend only on NATO for their security we are forced to follow the American foreign policies and American interests.
The people who believe that wars are over, that Europe is safe and that we don’t need an Army at all they live in their own World. So, since we need a security force, NATO should not be our only choice because the Europeans don’t control NATO, others control it.
Until now the Americans and British point the “enemies” and the other members just follow them because they don’t have a choice “we are allies and we have to support you against Iran, Afghanistan, China, etc etc”.
Yes! And I stand for United States of Europe.
Yes!
The Russian invasion must be stop
They said EU would have it’s own border patrol.
There will be fun, they said 😀😀😀😀😀
EU doesnt have the resources. Especially since about 1/3 of the countries are free-riding and contribute essentially nothing.
Obviously yes
Yes, it time to do it. Even soon as possible
It’s late but not too late
NO! We need better salaries, better health services, more affordable housing!
guess what kind of affordable housing you will get during invasion on Europe….
It’s not a bad ideea, but there have to be some very strict rules, just like NATO has. If one member state is attacked, that should mean war against all other member states. That is the most important rule.
NO WE HAVE NATO AND NO NEED FOR CORPORATION ARMY
Naturally, but under democratic government.
We would be better off dismantling armies the world over rather than increasing their numbers. The Military Industrial complex is turning our world into an Abomination!
No. Don’t escalate regional fights into international wars.
stop deploy nuclear in Europe, better make new deal with Russia for less nuclear, and new peace agreement
making deals with Russia is a bad idea
it depend who is the observer
Contributing troops the same way it is done with NATO would be fine but each country would need to have enough troops to act independently
no country in the EU can act independently except maybe GB and France (?). The rest is weak or already specializing on specific areas. why not combine it and save costs and make it more efficient?
yes there are Battle Groups in the EU
why would you want the EU to have military power that can potencially be used against a state who disagrees with the policies. Right now they can only place sanctions.
the same could be done already now…what is stopping a state invading another one? the EU would still be the national states and I also dont imagine an army lead by Juncker. The details need to be discussed, yes. But I guess we need to go a step further from the battle groups…
Exactly, that’s the reason why they desperately are pushing that agenda…….and to not mention who gonna pay for all this insanity…………..taxpayers 😀, right 😀
If you have just one combined force, you have complications. What happens if some countries say no to deployment and others say yes?! Who decides on equipment? Who decides on pay rates? Are governments willing to put up with the political fallout if their troops die in a war the government said no to?
No it cant be done now because armies today answer to their respecitve countries
An eu army wouldnt answer to an individual country but to the council itself
mutual understandment is keepin wars in the past. There is no idelogical reason to fight. Neither is an economic reason. I see your idea but the EU is tring to push for federation. Every european nation deservs its independence and freedom to self govern. Resent continued attemps in furtering theyr cause the nations are pushing back with right and far right parties. The power grab and rising ideologies are paralel and if continued will escalate into a war.
EU army to do what?
to keep order in the European near-abroad. the next time some madman like milosevic, putin, or ghadaffi decides to go on a killing spree, Europe will be able to put a stop to it instead of just calling Washington for help.
My dear friend, Putin, Milosevic did kill any one. Did not bother any one. The west is who destroyed the countries and lives of people for the sake of money. Did Putin invaded Iraq? Did Putin invaded Libya? Did Putin invaded Syria? Does Putin supports Israel in the killing of the Palestinian people? Did Putin made Bin Laden? Did Putin bomb Yugoslavia? My dear friend, open your eyes. Look what is happening around you.
With the support of whom Turkey keeps occupying part of an EU member state? Of Putin? Of Milosevic or of the West?
back on planet earth, Putin has invaded an occupied Ukraine, Georgia and others, they constantly threaten to invade others. What we dont need is weak people like you
Note he lives in an island that takes advantage of that Dictators stolen funds. Disgusting
In which planet do you live? Where have you seen an invasion in Ukraine or Georgia? You seem a bit confuse. Why don’t you make a list of the US invitations all over the world? It will take you some time because it would be a long list
You have no idea what you are talking about.
To keep unruly member states in line
go play your games elsewhere, everyone knows the reality
but you live in your own planet.
Yes .War is looming and mainland Europe must be well prepared.
We already have a number of armies across Europe that already work effectively alongside each other. This is just another ploy in the EU’s grab for power.
No. Europe cant reach a decision on simple issues how will it decide who leads the army, or even worse which missions it should undertake.
the armies of the EU countries are already collaborating in various places.
I agree
While reading the comments it dawned to me, how many of the pro EU Army comments have been written by people that are or have served in the Military? Seems to me that none of you experts have, happy to be proven wrong though.
What next? Republic on Europe, centralised government and socialism ? We did this with USSR not so long ago – it doesn’t work.
EU army would have only one role and that role would be to bully small puppet states. We had that in Yugoslavia, it was called Yugoslavian People’s Army and when it had to protect a member state it did the quite opposite because it was following commands from the Beograd. EU is showing all the examples of centralization and first steps of totalitarian role over all states. EU is no longer a union, but rather an empire that is lead by French and German aristocrats.
Same thing was with the Red Army and Warsaw Pact, when Czechoslovakia, Hungary and the rest of states wanted even a slightest sovereignty they got invaded. I won’t even mention the rest of the empires that ignored other nations sovereignty, but it’s pretty clear why those empires are past. The people who are for such army are against liberty and thus democracy.
History has proven, more than once that with such army all states lose their liberty. It’s all fun and games until the system that you supported starts representing values that you do not like, but you gave it all the power and now you can’t stop it.
If you give someone a power that he can use to oppress you, don’t act surprised when he uses that force to actually oppress you.
this. A million times, this.
Yes.
Arguments are fine on paper…but wait until you have body bags being flown home…going to war is the ultimate test of a nation’s resolve and cohesion..it’s unimaginable that the current EU political structure and lack of accountability…and in many eyes credibility…could cope with the public angst.
Offcourse. With NO.
NO !
This is like the 50th time… Of course yes!
National armies, airforces, coast guards, air defenses, navies… hugely inefficient!
Let’s start small, with a common air defence for example.
The question is who is going to manage that.
No. Military cooperation between member states is OK, but not an army!
Yes, it’s necessary.
Only to fight Islamic invasion
Yes.
Definitely, yes.
That’s why we have to vote for Volt this month! 💜🇪🇺
Yes, we’re already late.
We already have a useless and declining global sheriff namely NATO. Yes the one that spread depleted uranium and cancer to the Balkans in 1999. We dont need another one to serve the interests of the ready to collapse German Union (a.k.a EU) Hence NO thank you! 😉
Just noticed the soldiers are armed with Bulpap rifles, funny what the recruiting officer will say to left handed candidates? Jjust wait until the spent casings start flying just next to their faces when they shoot, they will leave the army running LOL
Of course. Strictly local defense only. Time to get out of NATO and away from USA
The Russian agression must be stopped
Yes, instead of NATO
Yes!
No thanks
Definitely YES
We need a strong EU military with our own equipment, yesterday
This is correct. With our own EU army, we are obliged to develop our own defense system. It is in this way we can be independent and free. In this way, our technology can improve, which is essentially required for an economy to prosper and to realize peace and security.
Better to have joint ventures in the European industry of de fence
No! Without a common foreign policy there is no reason to have common armed arme forces
Eu army will have 24 hours disputes lool .dont u see that the EU is divided?
NO!!!!!
No, because after a Europe army comes a world Army.
It is important to set a purpose for the EU army. An EU army must be tailor-made for the purpose of EU. Without setting a parameter to guide the purpose of an army, many evil things can happen. For example, the UN has the peace-keeping troops.
Never allow the EU to strive or become a global EU (USE) military power!
I am less concerned about an external military threat then a possible internal EU supranational implosion! This may arise from its political concept- not an external military occurrence.
Why create fear & artificial reasons by constantly antagonizing Russia or in believing every single word Trump and pro EU fear/war mongers spread- to justify an EU army?
One does not need such “EU army”= defense force to (one day) invade and enforce EU treaty law within (“uncooperative”) but still sovereign member’s states!
The EU is neither sovereign nor an independent state- only a supranational organization! Everything else is based on cooperation agreements & international law- like the existing NATO membership. That is sufficient deterrent!
Rather introduce moral, ethical and some basic legal training for all higher ranked National politicians & bureaucrats to better understand their role in proper state governance, like:
to always abide and follow the rule of law, be loyal to the National Constitution, honor & respect international agreements, act with integrity at all times, build a global competitive economy, be accountable to the electorate and a shining example for all- day & night!
https://www.cer.eu/insights/eu-army-four-reasons-it-will-not-happen
Please let this be your final & last attempt- to promote an “EU army” here- till after the next EU election in 2024! Thank you!
An EU army should be representing European interests, while the NATO is representing American interests. To pay for sustaining or making the American Great Again is idiot, as we have seen that a declining superpower is becoming very irrational and aggressive. As Mdm Angela Mekerel said, Europe can no longer rely on the US for protection. Now, it is the time for an EU army, as our major obstacle, the UK has left the union.
Oh God are we dragging up this sad old topic again.Listen,Trump would love the EU to set up it’s own army,it’d give him the excuse he’s been looking for to break up NATO,the most successful military alliance in history,and the one and only reason we’ve had relative peace on this continent for the last seventy years.
And don’t forget this ‘army’ would be missing some of NATO’s biggest hitters the US,UK,Turkey and Canada and all because a few of you are jealous of America,Putin must be laughing himself silly.
There is no need for an EU army, but there could be an agreement for military co-operation between national armies, so that if there is a threat, it will be met with a quick, united response. That’s it. Anything more than is an unnecessary fuss and expenses. NATO is not needed either – it is just a tool for American political dominance over European countries. EU should not be commanded by USA.
Long overdue.
For us, a EU’s army should be used only in defense and never in attack, because one of the values of EU is the peace. What do you think?
Hi guys,
you should very well know what the EU (EC & EP) “thinks”- if you’re up to date!
To ask them (again & again) would be fruitless! To whom are you posing this question? For example, you could respond to an assortment of 1,462 comments!
To mention & consider:
Speaking of forming an “EU army”- in its traditional sense- is totally wrong, presently “illegal” and out of order within the current supranational EU concept! Only a fully fledged sovereign country is entitled (as per UN Charter- pls look it up) to protect its sovereignty and its right to self determination with a “national army” etc. Everything else is based on international agreements between Nations- like NATO.
Do the EU Federalists wish to compete or destroy NATO- prematurely? Plain suicide!
The EU is becoming more and more a glorified political and power hungry concept- aiming to remove all remaining competences still vested within its sovereign Members (28-1) in order (one day- hopefully never) to claim victory over the “confederates” and pronounce itself a fully sovereign “USE Nation”. Only then could the EU speak about & form an “EU Army”.
The UN Charter (1945) protects the right of all Nations and their sovereignty. The EU insiders works against this Charter by destroying this right for its 28 Members- using the “free will” principle!
https://www.jus.uio.no/english/services/library/treaties/01/1-01/un_charter.xml
If however, the “EU” can “hypnotize” and soften up all its 28 Members long enough to give up their precious sovereignty out of “their free will”- in favor of a “new State”- either called United States of Europe (USE) or “The Federal Republics of Europe” (FRE) and the UN grants such application- than all former 28 Members must pack their suitcases, return from the UN in New York and fly home to their now “downgraded” & renamed e.g. the “Italian Province” of the USE or FRE.
Is that the political price you wish to pay? Ask yourselves- not the EU!
UK does not only want to prevent the formation of an EU army, by seizing Iran oil tanker, it is now trying to ignite a third great war in the Middle East for the Brexit can isolate the UK from the influx of all refugees. This would lead to chaos in Europe, while the UK remains the most stable economy, which would draw huge FDI while Europe would be in great social and economic instability. This is only a traditional strategy the UK has been using as an isolated state from the European continent. Brexit would lead to total isolation of the UK and its political and economic influence in Europe would drastically decrease. The only way is to ignite the fire for a third devastating world war. This serves the continuous dominance of UK in Europe supporting by a foreign power, the US. As such, EU needs to be more determine in handling the Brexit, which has been dragging our own progress and development too long. It is necessary to speed up the formation of an EU army. As in history, Russia is a member of the European family. Hostility and isolation of Russia, which is a military power only second to the US, serves nothing good for Europe. It is only through economic prosperity, Europe can become powerful to defend itself like what China has been doing for 40 years. All states need a power army to deter aggression. After Brexit, UK is a dagger threatening Europe security particularly it is the mother country of the most aggressive hegemony. We have to remember, the US is the single country that has been fighting most war all over the world and responsible for all death toll of many soldiers and civilians after the two devastating world wars. It is time Europe needs innovative and independent defense towards social stability and economic development all for Europe, not for the American to become great again.
A state or an political and economic union without its own defensive capacity is not sovereign. When the UK is no more a member of the EU, it would and is already joining hand with the US disregarding peace and security of Europe by seizing Iran tanker. War or peace, Europe has to make its own choice now.
This is a difficult one; on one hand yes a European Army is the institucionalisation of the political power of the EU, and it has the capability for being one of the most powerful armies in the world capable of sending a clear message specially to our most “cheeky” or beligerant neighbours. On the other hand political power should be in the lowest possible form, and diplomacy is always the best way to deal with the huge problems the EU has, starting with the disfunctional Euro a.k.a reformed Deutsch mark, the weakness of the European Parliament and ending with the huge influx of migrants mostly economical from outside Europe; I also think this army could be use more as form of internal authority to keep EU citizens under control and restrain.
‘to keep EU citizens under control and restrain’
My god this place really is turning into the Soviet Union.
No.
We are 50 years late
About time!
Yes
Finally. Work together please..
Yes.
Yes
Defenetly yes
Not again please.
nope
Yea. 100 %.
Are you all mad or just trolls
Every parliament needs a force to protect it. The European Union has a parliament and enjoys democracy and therefore needs its support to protect it
it is just now the time to fight corrupted politicians
It is time for european police to fight against coruption.
Yes. ASAP
Never.
Yep
Oh goody…manned by the Dutch ( remember Screbenicia)..funded by the Greeks…led by beuraucrats..what could possibly go wrong.
Not much.
Yes, and a more social EU. Trade was first, security is an important second step, then EU-wide social equality will be third-the icing on the cake.
No, it s time for an UE where the leaders aren t alcholics and drug addicts, where money is used in social benefit and not making the rich more rich, an Europe we can be proud off
well the biggest social benefit they did is create peace. But I agree that we need more social benefits, but I also see that that could not have been done before since nations only care for their own wealth.
No the EU isn’t a country it’s not Europe stop kidding yourselves.
Europe is also not a country. Neither is Nato. So there is no barrier to not make an army.
Being against army’s in general, I still would prefer one European army capable to act…
same, i see it as a necessary evil. Sadly.
Yes start with European equipment instead of buying us jets… Like Poland and Greece did….
Though not against staying close with the us, I do think we need to have our own capacity.
And looking at equipment we have alot of top 3 stuff.
European Union – EU Police
It’s time to abolish the EU
It is time for reducing sharply all european armies for lack of enemies
i do see china, russia and the US but also saudi as enemys.
The thing is if you dont have an army you cant offer any counter weight to what america is doing.
Aka an army is not just there to fight but also a bargaining chip to offer other solutions.
Isn’t the EU a trade organisation?
Nope, its far more.
What is it then?
Causa perduta. With those,who should comprise that EU army purchasing American(not European) weaponry, how exactly would that army defend Europe’s interests?
they also have European equipment. In theory there is no issue in keeping close allies with the US and thus buying their weaponry as they use a far greater budget on creating weapons.
That doesnt mean we should also have our alternatives.
The guys from Washington already declared the EU an adversary. Close ties with them means being their lackeys and doing exactly as been told. About “our alternatieves”, look at Turkey and then think again about any alternatives, whether they are possible at all.
First give some honest and true financial aid to the south, help solve the corruption problems of countries like Greece and only then discuss about a common army. EU is already proving itself as a failure in the economic sector. It is rediculous to even think of upgrading it to a military union at this point.
Or the new totalitarianism is coming, congratulations
First the US occupation must end, and than European national guard.
Yes !
Not in my name !
No they will do it in the name of democracy.
“Democracy”.
as always of course, in the name of democracy, Afghanistan, Iraq , Libya , Syria and so on…
At the EU’s current rate of dictating to other states how should they run their domestic policies, HELL NO!!!
they are not dictating its a democracy. Blame your leaders for failing to put forward what you care about and stop crying if the rest in the democracy do not agree.
Were any of the local citizens, within Europe, given the chance to vote on any of the policies implemented by individuals in Brussels let alone that of senior level officials, not even elected by anyone… So please spare me the nonsense…
its not biased its facts. But the way you write makes you biased as fck. As you seem to do not understand the process and have some silly hatred because you do not.
Maby vote in proper politicians next time so you wont be left to the grace of other nations.
okay… run along now, comrade! I understand the process 100% actually every Greek does better than any European.
Regardless of whom you vote the wealthy prevail (bankers)… But people like you assume the term called democracy of which is bull… You believe in unicorns
we live in a represented Republic and not a democracy… Leaders are elected by the party where as the party elects it’s leader so all decisions go through the party.
yes!
Something you might wanna know about Russia
Kremlin drug trails — Time of “Moscowbar”
https://medium.com/@tomp8687/kremlin-drug-trails-time-of-moscowbar-e886794d0645?fbclid=IwAR2ogsQJwRHPGhXsTNynJVIQtDZRMzISjAn7nJCUtg6E4tKMV4K8bOqxgYI
No
Oh great, the rebirth of the Grande Armee, all we need now is to find some vertically challenged Frenchman to lead it.
YES, it’s about time to stop financing US arms industry and spend the same amount in house. EU house. NATO only serves the purpose of US. Without brits, a US satellite, EU can move on in many aspects.
So, well yeah, EU armes forces.
Like anyone’s gonna join
Fellow Europeans,
It’s so easy to suggest forming a European Army/Armed Forces in the future, to counter what’s considered an Americanized NATO that currently protects Europe. I can fully understand that Europe wants to step out of the shadows, and share the limelight with the likes of America, China and Russia on the global stage. Personally I feel that too much thinking is being directed at making the European Union a superpower by May 2025, through the tighter controls that the EU wants to implement in the years to come. All the European countries need to seriously think about what they truly want for their citizens future, do they want long-term peace and independence, if so then a more balanced NATO would be the better option, and to help bring long-term peace to our continent. Russia and the other non-NATO countries need to be included in the new structure alongside the existing members, to build a bright future together and to reduce approximately 11,5 million (Regular & Reserve) military personnel in the process.
no ,no, no I do not want Germany near France or UK nukes, Germany is far to powerful now .Nato is best option so we can not go jack booting around the world
speaking from a debate team in school, against the motion “The EU needs an army” from what we have researched from a sergeant in Oghlaigh na hEireann (Irish army) and from other points of information of a reliable force, the EU having an army would have many downsides no matter.
Yes please, this will be way more efficient and a true force to reckon with. Also let’s move towards strong outside border and ensure controlled, just and fair immigration. Immigration that does not go beyond the social capacity of member states to absorb, welcome and assimilate newcomers, and of people that will truly contribute to the EU!!!
Yes
Yes
Of course
We already have the EUROFOR (European Rapid Operational Force) and the European Union Military Committee (EUMC) .
Absolutely
yes
Every country has got an army, plus Nato…we don,t need any more.
To fight against whom?
Yes
Better sooner than later
Yes we need an EU army
This is why we left the Europe to keep or identity trying to have United States of Europe which isn’t going to end well
no
Yes
Its not time in the sense of eu unity. But we have no choice so yea we need it asap.
No ,we do not need asap !!!
@Anelia you better see what china is doing and then think about how to deal with it when its too late. Which it already is.
Or well you can explain me here how to keep our heads above the water.
It´s time to put in jail al corrupted politicians in Al EU states, including in Portugal
No! Against whom are we going to fight? North Korea, Iran, Venezuela or our dear neighbors Turkey?
Realistically. the threats are from Russia, China and the USA. Having an army for the zone will at least remove any obligations through trade for military from any of those countries.
against turkey of course,,,,, dear neighbors not at all
When a small country, let’s say Romania, Lituania or Poland is atacked how long would take for birocrats from different countries to react. A unified EU Army would act in a matter of hours. So yes, we need an army able to act beyond national countries.
And who do you think would attack these countries?
he’s or delusional or troll 😀
no1 cares about that 3 countries
NO WAY
For all who said “yes” , who is going to pay this insanity and against who is going to be used ……..Russians (😁🤣😉)……or protesters…..???
yes Turkey are they not a threat to Greece and Cyprus or do you not hear the news??…. Every day violating our FIR space by F16’s ….and sending thousands of refugees and illegal immigrants to the Greek Islands we definitely need an EU army to combat this problem
https://greece.greekreporter.com/tag/fir/
Why not russia? They have troops in three independent countries without right. Who’ s gone stop them from entering in Romania, Poland or Baltic countries: Germany or France? 😂😂😂😂
@Marius You watch to much SNN
@Pedro you sound like a troll ! Yeah, the biggest ,non elected from the people, bureaucracy living on the working class shoulders
@Marius Don’t forget, in WW2 Russians gave 4 000 000 millions victims! And yes, you really watch to much SNN, MSNBC…. 😀
@Anna Yes, what are you saying is true and is unacceptable !!! But open your eyes, that with the illegal “refugees ” is different agenda, EU doesn’t need army to stop it ,they are provoking it ! It’s a dirty game……
@Anelia We, in the Eastern Europe, know from our grandfathers stories how was it to deal with russians. Mine said: ” a good russian is a dead russian” and he had no reason to lie. We did not heard it from the news like others. I do not know your source, but belive me, russia is a menace to all Europe and we should not treat it easy.
@Anelia the EU is the biggest economy in the world. It will pay for its own defense under its own command.
@Anelia all EU Member States have democraticaly eleted governments. That “unelected” slogan is a lie.
@Anelia Civil servants are not elected anywhere in the world.All Member States are eletive dmocracies. They chose their governates in accordance with teir constitucions. Members of the Council are those governants and mebers of the Comission are aprooved by the Europeam Parliament. Only neo-fascists acuse the EU of undemocratic.
@Anelia Casualties happens in times of war, but this do not change the criminal actions of the russian empire. They started WW2 alogside their natzis allies and paid for it, not enought in my point of view.
Immediately after killing the military commander of Iran, Pompeo claimed that he had that discussed with the British Foreign Minister. It is crystal clear that the US is trying to convey a message that the UK is involved in such killing so that Iran might carry out terrorist attack again in Europe. The US has already successful in doing this with the 911. US European allies are closer to the Middle East thus cliser to retaliation. Europe is stupid to place its military command under the US NATO.
Macron is correct, NATO is suffering from brain dead. If US Secretary of State Pompeo was not lying, he had really discussed the assassination of Iran military commander General Soleimani Saleimani with British foreign Minister. The brain dead process has spread. Macron has immediately joined Russia on the accusation of such irresponsible assassination is very wise. France ought to withdraw its military command from NATO as General De Gaul had done.
Fellow Europeans,
America’s latest assassination of another puppet master Soleimani Saleimani, only proves that the middle east is one big powder keg of problems. History has proved that America and Europe will never change the Arab mindset, regardless of how many missiles are used, Iran will always manipulate behind the scenes to unbalance its neighbors. Personally it would be better for everyone if America stops trying to mould the world into its own image, and try and help develop a new NATO that can bring Europe closer together along with Russia, to remove once and for all, past cold war thinking. By accepting Russia into NATO as an equal member, will open up new opportunities in resolving the most sensitive of all issues – nuclear weapons, I feel that a modern version of the START talks could take place, the main difference this time will be for the United Kingdom and France, and hosting members Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey to come to the table as well, and for all nine countries to sign a treaty of intent to reduce the current nuclear arsenal to a more acceptable level that also covers future basing in Europe.
United States – Warheads (deployable 1,600 currently – reduce to 800)
(total 6,450 currently – reduce to 3,225)
Russia – Warheads (deployable 1,600 currently – reduce to 800)
(total 6,490 currently – reduce to 3,225)
France – Warheads (deployable 280 currently – will not deploy operationally)
(total 300 currently – will be dismantled and to destroy stockpile)
United Kingdom – Warheads (deployable 120 currently – will not deploy operationally)
(total 215 currently – will be dismantled and to destroy stockpile)
Host Members – will sign to make their countries nuclear free compliant in the future.
Its long overdue for Europe to be at peace with its self, and work more towards showing the way for other continents to make the world a better place.
of course yes
Yes, I think this is a great idea if all armies are joined together there will be no war.
But only if it is used purely for protection and safety, not for power.
Pieter, that is my long-term view, my thoughts also move more in line with NATO supporting the United Nations in making the world a safer place to live. The only way change can permanently happen, is for all the world’s leaders to come together and to sign a global treaty on arms reduction – (Who knows what the future will hold for everyone – perhaps long-term peace).
I would rather see the EU disband than turn into a military bloc. The only reason people seem to want this to happen is because it hasn’t been tried. I can’t rationalise any other position down to any other motivation, other than a ‘well we might as well do it, while we’re here’ attitude.
You don’t need a super-national army to deal with terror attacks. What a stupid idea. Terror attacks are on the decrease in frequency in the EU, and having a united army wouldn’t do anything to help even if that were not the case. What has a united core of tanks, aircraft and military operation got to do with some lunatic in a truck? You plan on rolling in the tanks a couple of hours after someone shoots up a supermarket? Ridiculous.
A unified army in Europe wouldn’t stop war, either. That’s like saying having only one government would stop a coup.
Let alone the fact that member states’ sovereignty would be at further risk than it is today.
A fragmented international society is safer than a united one. One bad decision in that system and everyone falls, but in a fragmented system, one bad decision doesn’t have to affect everyone else.
To Mr or Ms No,
I totally understand your thoughts on the EU wanting to form its own military, I have always felt that it will cause more harm than good, by having a super-power struggle start between the EU and Russia will only aggravate what is a delicate peace we have all enjoyed since the end of the Cold War. That’s why I
have suggested the best alternative way forward for Europe – please refer back to 10th October 2019 and 8th January 2020 to see my alternative views on the future, I hope it helps to open up new thinking.
No. The EU politicians claim the EU is an trading bloc. Why should the EU need an army, when there is NATO?