Should Europe have its own army? With Britain set to (in theory) leave the EU in 2019, one of the largest defence spenders in the European Union is about to leave. Almost 25% of EU defence expenditure currently comes from the UK, and Britain has historically obstructed any moves towards a common EU military. With the British and their veto on their way out (and with President Trump openly questioning US commitment to NATO) could it finally be time to move ahead on security and defence integration?
What do our readers think? We had a comment sent in from Heinrich on our ‘Suggest a Debate’ page, who believes that one day the European Union will have a common army which, possibly, could act as a counterweight to US military might internationally. Is he right? Or is he ignoring political reality?
Is it time for a European army? We asked Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) from all sides of the political spectrum to stake out their positions on this question, and it’s up to YOU to vote for the policies you favour. See what the different MEPs have to say, then vote at the bottom of this debate for the one you most agree with! Take part in the vote below and tell us who you support in the European Parliament!
Radical Left
Sabine Lösing (GUE/NGL), Member of the European Parliament:
We reject any further militarisation of the European Union and believe that the European Union should be a purely civilian union and not a military union. Therefore, this question is superfluous in the context of our basic program. At the same time, however, I would like to say that, even if one supported this idea, which I do not, it is not constitutionally possible at all in my view. For a European army we would also need a European federal state, with corresponding parliamentary powers which the European Parliament does not have at all.
Social Democrats
Tanja Fajon (S&D), Member of the European Parliament:
Greens
Bodil Valero (Group of the Greens), Member of the European Parliament:
We don’t believe it’s a good idea to have a common army. We think that we have, for example, the battlegroups that we can send out in peacekeeping missions; they have never been used so far, even though they cost a lot. That could be a first step towards working more together. It’s good to coordinate the different armies we have in Europe, but we should not have a common European army.
Liberal Democrats
Hilde Vautmans (ALDE), Member of the European Parliament:
Centre Right
Alojz Peterle (EPP), Member of the European Parliament:
It wouldn’t be a problem, in technical terms, to establish military units or a so-called ‘European army’. The political question is how and when, or for what purpose this army will be used. We are again speaking about the problems of political unity. We have to agree who is our enemy and where we should engage our army. And I remember how it was when Slovenia was attacked 25 years ago. At that time, there was no European Common Foreign and Security Policy. And I would say we still have problems with that because different Member States have different opinions of the main challenges.
Conservatives
Anna Fotyga (ECR), Member of the European Parliament:
Eurosceptics
Fabio Massimo (EFDD), Member of the European Parliament:
Curious to know more about EU defence cooperation? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).
The command should be turned between the states, and it should be divided by nationalities
Paul X
..and there in lies the biggest problem, 27 nations each working to their own agendas is why the EU as an organisation is so inept…..trying to force 27 militaries under one command and control structure will lead to one of the most ineffective armed forces on the planet….
That’s again an odd question. Militaries from various EU countries already work together a lot, mostly under the umbrella of NATO. Ergo, an “EU army” can easily be formulated through closer cooperation, outside NATO. It’s a parallel to the EU itself, countries retain their individuality, etc. while also being stronger as part of a community.
Paul X
NATO works because (like it or not) the US as the largest contributor dominates proceedings. Just who exactly is going to be the lead country in any EU army?
dannispillett
the uk the best armed forces in Europe will not be part of it anyway we will stick with America the strongest armed forces in the world 21 years service british army
Si è il momento giusto .E deve anche sviluppare una deterrenza credibile nucleare partendo da quella Francese It is the right time .It must also develop a credible nuclear deterrence starting with the French, not to be a rich and luxurious porcelain vase in the middle of the iron pots …
what about irish and swedish neutrality Kevin? they could take on more UN duties instead. It would be more about protecting the EU borders, and intervening in disaster areas, french already have nukes…do we really need anymore? if they go off we are all screwed anyway, french and italians have good airforce and navy, irish already do a lot of UN work, not being part of the Joker in Gotham City’s lunacy would be a good thing, but also not being a part of the U.S. wars would be a good anyway, retaining control of our bases would be good too, so in prinicple yes, but carefully does it.
What for? To protect non existing borders? Or “fascists” that do not like nice people from ME? We do not need protection, we are liberal open minded people that overcame “populist” agendas about borders and national states. Allahu Akbar! :)
So that you can First manage your own damn near-abroad, and then also stop free-riding our strategic alliance like a bunch of welfare queens, and carry some of the #$%^& strategic defense burden yourselves.
Max Berre, thank you massa /slave owner/, you bring 1€ in Croatia and take out 100€ in profits, so shut up! By the way Croatian troops are in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Baltic states, Africa!
these people would take our money for their services. this is just a job, same as miner or firefighter. so.. would you sign up to be part of firefight service or you just want other people to go a die for you in fire?
Absolutely not. The EU has far too much control over member states as it is. The EU should be disbanded. Though we’ll probably all lose another ton of money changing back to our own currencies. A beast with many unelected heads, feeding from an overflowing trough.
The alternative seems to be member-nations mostly free riding the NATO alliance. As an american tax-payer, that is not something that I wont to keep paying for indefinitely.
NATO is another pile of crap. As an Irish tax payer, I’m certainly not happy at American military planes refuling in Shannon and breaking our neutrality.
Palvolgyi Denes Actually, Obama also made reference to this matter. NATO’s strategic free-ridership problem has actually been an ongoing frustration in Washington since the Clinton administration. And yes, I still have US taxes to worry about. The only way I could completely get away from that would be to renounce my US citizenship AND move all my assets abroad (not ever gonna do either of those though).
Yes. if the EU is going to matter in the world. It’s going to need its own viable institutions. It’s also going to need to be able to influence events in its own near-abroad.
real question is: does it make sense to have national armies within the EU? We have no borders between us and no need to have actual armies defending each other’s territories. Do we need an army for external threats to the EU? Yes of course
We have now voted to leave and will regain our borders back.
Also you keep saying “WE”,the EU should fight it’s own battles because I can tell you as an ex serviceman virtual NO Brit would fight for the EU.Our oath is to Queen& Country.
“Warmongering EU”…
Should I remind you of who was US’ biggest ally in the phony Irak war?
Tom King
I think regional forces based on blocs could distribute the costs of the armed defence of Europe. There could be a GermanoNordic bloc, FrancoLatin bloc and an Eastern bloc. This might be an effect way to divide costs while distributing responsibilities about. Just cause Britain’s left doesn’t mean that it isn’t interested in European affairs pertaining to defence. I’m sure it would come around to collaborative drills with its Allies. And let’s no forget Trump won’t be around forever folks. His popularity plummets with each breath we take. America likes it’s traditionally “unchallenged” presence in other lands and I’m sure a EU army would have the Yanks as stumped as the Russians.
Yes, its time! Europe has a capacity to be very porwerful force globaly! This union wont survive only with money and good principles. Some … neighbours are thinking about it as a week one. Its time to show up some real power!
Yes, cause next time when some nation decides to leave EU we could send army and kill all opposition like Americans did in CIvil War.
We need to defend integrity of EU even if it means exterminating all citizens or rebellious state…
/SarcasmOff
The people who answer yes to this question make me glad I voted for Brexit. I have a child in the British military and this is my biggest fear, that one day there will be a European Army that individual member states will have no control over. It’s a dangerous plan.
As if individual member states were more or less likely to use ‘defense’ for legitimate purposes. I don’t buy it. whichever way. The least we spend on the military the better.’
Yannick Cornet at least the people of those individual states have some control. Who would be in charge of an EU army? Who would have the final word in a military situation? Militarised superpower is a dangerous thing.
There is much more control towards the EU than towards single governments. People just ignore all the consultations, referendums, representation, interaction offices, popular initiative laws, reports and transparency and so on which EU offers.
They are accountable towards many countries, not just one, and can’t control the media like national governments do, as simple as that.
But we’re happy UK is getting out, too skewed toward interests of USA more than common European ones.
Daniel Bernoulli again, who will have final say in a military campaign if we have an EU army? No one seems to be able to answer this question. Which countries general will be in charge on the battle field…it can only be one, surely?
Kirstie that will be european comission prerogative. You see EU IS PEOPLE its not a bunch od reptiles or aliens but member states leaders that are making decissions
and yet no one can answer my question. i don’t think it is an irrational fear either. British people voted against action in Syria, if it was the decision of the EU then no doubt we would have been forced into military action. EU is NOT people currently, EU is not held accountable by the people, we don’t get to vote!!
Peter
Kirstie, how about the national parliaments, as it is for NATO, too? For my taste, it could also be the European Parliament – as soon as we have true European parties.
diana
Believe me the Germans will have control …why is nobody learning from history ?
It is also the not so wet dream of many ordinary people that want to continue living in peace as in the last 3 generations. No to nationalism. No pasaran.
diana
You mean a superstate …are you stupid or just crazy ?
If we think of the EU unification like the unification of Germany, then its the united military spirit that will unite europe in a common goal. But its better for the EU to first create laws that will make that EU army a solely defensive force
No, the EU armed force needs to be capable of waging war in it`s full glory.
The EU Armed Forces will respond to the European Parliament, the only institution capable of deploying it.
No! For what? To fight the Porblems made by the Leaders and the stupid following of that? We are forced to fight each other every day by “doing business” how about changing that instead of forcing on military shit?
David Cameron was indeed right. The EU is not about peace. It’s about power.
Peter
Do you believe that any EU battle group would attack and occupy other countries like the British army did in Iraq or Libya? Maybe, military should be limited to peacekeeping operations by EU treaty. E.g. German constitution doesn’t allow attacking other countries. Still, Parliamentarians accepted attacks on Serbia and now Syria together with the British and others. I wonder why nobody is sueing them.
Yes. Not only that it will provide cheaper and better defence, it is also a good tool of redistributing money in the EU. Specially the poor countries would benefit dramatic financially.
Yes, because it’s the only practical way of defending ourselves. Think about it: people can move free. In times of conflict, people flee and can no longer be found where they were.
As such, they cannot be protected by their national armies, can they? The practical solution is a European army, to protect any and all people, regardless of their nationality.
This would avoid most of the ethical implications of the current setup.
diana
You are really naive enough to believe an EU army will be there to defend us? What if a far right wing government was voted in in Germany and France …who do you think they are going to defend ? Countries are already divided . In Yugoslavia religions lived next door to each other for centuries and overnight its all gone . You really think people are Europeans first and Muslim/ Jewish / Hindu second . Democracy is very fragile and can be lost in 24hours and your grandchildren will be paying the price
With Erdogan getting crazier week by week and the influx of potential jihadists, sure we need to improve the defensive capabilities.
The weapons lobby will be clicking their champagne glasses..
Only if it is not controlled centralised. If the Northern europeans control the banks the southern should at least control the armies. EU is too unbalanced as it is, and people still push even further this unbalance at the expense of some nations.
Tarquin Farquhar
@Alex
UNBELIEVABLE!
You want a proposed [evil] EU army to be controlled by countries prone to dictatorship and replete with rank corruption!
So that UE led by Germany could enter Poland and make my country do whatever Germany needs to, e.g. accept the so called refugees who were invited by Angela Merkel without asking citizens of other member countries? No, thank you. NATO is enough.
No, NATO is enough. EU has already much power. The example? The Brexit. We, europeans, we not made to give our power away to an international organisation in such dimension, it’s against our freedom and national identities. Solidarity, yes, total control, no.
Not the people, the elites. When the europeans vote something about EU, usually their vote is always no, because we are not the United States of Europe, that is against our DNA. And I do not like federalism. EU is already a federalistic project. For me it’s enough. We must be united, yes, but not in a federalistic way.
Peter
I like the idea of a European federation or rebublic. There is nothing like a ‘national DNA’. We are all Europeans (even the British ;-))
ΕU is in its last days.It has no external enemy and does not need armies.Only anti-terrorism police is needed and it has plenty but is functioning pretty bad.
Tagip violates daily EEZ and your airspace for…fun threatening your borders or you sleep in your world of peace and….. death in your sleap? You only care for εμφυλιο σαν γνωστοι μαζόχες
It is time for an global army alliance made up advanced,secular democratic countries regardless of geography or race. Most of europe is made up small or micro states never will be able to contribute on large scale for an regional army whereas an global alliance made of japan,Australia,European countries and latin America would be an greater and more solid platform and an better opportunity for technological transfers fir every country’s defense sector.
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
NO .. Simply tighten border control, stop being Turkeys bitch, and end the war in Syria .. Or it this aimed at the pathetic claim of the “Russians are coming” if so lets gorw up.
I don t want the EU to prepare a war. So i don t want an EU army. Any european country has an army strong enough to ensure internal security. Why should we build something bigger?
Europe is an instrument for peace, not for war
European Armed Forces – In accordance with Article 113, 142 and 150 paragraph 3 of the Constitution of the European Union as a federal state, the European Union shall establish European Armed Forces for purposes of defence. Their numerical strength and general organizational structure must be shown in the budget of Union. Apart from defence, the European Armed Forces may be employed only to the extent expressly permitted by Constitution European Federation. http://european-federation.blogspot.com/2015/12/european-armed-forces.html
Paul X
Complete load of unintelligible tripe written by a Federal EU fantasist, and you don’t need to look any further then the first paragraph to realise that (Martial law involves a little bit more than soldiers protecting property and directing traffic)
Paul X
And Its quite ironic that the “coat of arms” is based on the UK combined forces insignia considering that is the one country that will never be taking part….
With England leaving, US withdrawing from NATO, Turkey building alliance with Russia and EU periphery burning… Not a bad idea. But who will be in command and giving orders? Juncker??
Si,indiscutiblemente.Europa necesita tener un ejército propio para dar valor a su política exterior y tener una independencia real en las organizaciones internacionales,incluida la OTAN.Ademas de ser más eficientes se racionaria mucho mejor el gasto en armamento. Mejor un ejército fuerte que 27 pequeños.
Because we don’t have the same interests! I rather have to be in my nations army “reserve personnel ” for the rest of my life than having to beg for help from people that can’t find my county on the map and they don’t really care what will happen to my people!
It is interesting that the major opposition are members of NATO except Finland and Sweden, who according to British media they want to join the British-led Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF). The EU army is only good if it is independent from NATO and its unethical agendas. But if it is to support NATO then the EU is going in the same unethical wrong direction.
Tarquin Farquhar
@Julia Hadjikyriacou
You honestly think that an EU army lead by the cu#t and the co#k (Germany and France) with their terrible and violent histories and predilections would be less unethical than NATO?
There are certainly other issues more urgent to be solved, the objectif of the UNion, it’s functioning together etc. Maybe there should also be a certein time for Member Srares $$$$$
Sorry, i clicked too early; Time for Member STates to reflect whether they want to follow the British example and some others just to be told, that their organisation does not correspond with european principles anymore and that they should take action to rectify this or get out of the Union
Hmm .. not a good idea, it would inevitably end up being controlled by the stronger countries such as Germany or France. The EU has to realize that it is not a single country and until it is (hopefully never) pushing for an EU army is always going to fail .. look what it took to unite the US, is that what EU citizens want a civil war?
EU Reform- Proactive
Never! Why the obsession to (AGAIN & again) debate the pros & cons of an EU Army- “clearly” declared by “GIANTS” France, Germany, Italy & Spain as not to be “OUR” objective?
Only a lone ALDE “spear woman” chooses to sharpen her spear in line with other DWARFS like Lithuania, Latvia & Junckers Luxembourg. How can the published statistics of 74% “for” & “18%” against be representative? Some went bonkers?
Junckers “for” motivation typically rests on an inherited inferiority complex- “to show the world”- or? Bad! Are there no other & better options- than his ONE only option?
R U kidding, people? How could there possibly be a “European Army” if there are no common interests and common foreign policy?…
Rob mills
God no and the Germans want nuclear weapons which they and the japanese are forbidden to have after the war , who is the enemy Russia trade with them instead .
An army under who’s control? Brussels? No, thanks.
Brussels should be deleted from the map and EU should be disbanded altogether.
NATO works better than any EU army. It includes not only EU but many other states. It also works because it is primarily a peace keeping organization not an army. Is better each country to have their own armies but all armies to work together as a world police in peacekeeping rather than self-interest. Armies would be used in self interest.
But if you really wanna make an army they all better be Christian and march to Istanbul to retake Constantinopole.
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
Why? Only five of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 28 member countries last year met the alliance goal of spending at least 2% of their gross domestic product on defense. Better increase spending to 2% of GDP
Clearly some people have forgotten what happened the last time a bunch of crazed Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe were allowed to militarise.
when was the last time half a billion of europeans voted a parliament to represent them all?? because sure as hell it didn’t happen in the third reich.
Ivan Burrows only seen the first two parts of the film and it says it clear that Nazis stoped the communists take hold of powerhouse of Europe then 1933 the powerhouse of the world
Had the communists prevailed over Nazis I’m sure u know it would have been a very different western world that we leave in today
Nobody is denying who the Nazis are but there was a very big good out of the evil
It never ceases to amaze me how little you EU fanatics actually know about your history.
The Nazi party gained 11 million votes in 1932 and the German people made Hitler chancellor, only 42% of EU Europeans voted for your parliament in 2014 with a 1/3 of those voting for anti EU MEPS. Hardly a resounding love for the EU.
How many votes did your president Juncker get ?, does that mean he more like Stalin than Hitler ?
The European Parliament does not make law as in a democracy, it merely the rubber stamping department of the unelected European Politburo.
The EU institutions have more in common with dictatorships than any democracy.
You consider the Brussels created migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis and the misery heaped onto millions of people across the EU to be ‘good’ ?
Never. Communism wihout power is funny and stupid. See at drunk Juncker and Shultz or stupid gender ideology and “equality” ideology. Communism with power is dangerous. Communism always has consequences as terror and millions of victims.
It is time to cut military expenses for lack of external enemies.Only Turkey is threatening EUs FRONTIERS in Greece and has occupational force of 40.000 troops in EU s member Cyprus.There is need only for security police to control terrorism which is the only threat.
Only Turkey is threatening borders and EU has no danger? That’s delusional. Turkey is the one who’s trying to keep Europe clear of mass immigration and border security from the middle east. And let me kindly remind you that it was Greek Cyrpiots who voted no for Annan plan.
Anan plan was a turkish inspired plan which left the possibility open for Turkey to first influence all Cyprus decisions in its own interests and then to overrun the whole island. Turkey is an imperialist state with visions of invading any territory within its reach and eventually the whole of Europe through Islamic expansion
Of course it was a big No to anan plan as our country will never be a state of turkey and that’s what anan plan was all about to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. We are Europeans not Turks!! Turkey already invaded Cyprus with 40.000 troops remaining in Cyprus and it’s illegally occupying the northern part of Cyprus against all international laws and regulations!
Turkey is an imperialist state with invasion fantasy. So Greece is not? Implying slavic Macedonians are Hellens, and chasing Megali Idea. Sorry guys our govts. are equally worse. Greece was forcing monoculturism in Cyprus with violent ways and Turks seized their cultural relatives, that’s what happened. And Annan plan was something democratic. The otherwise of Annan plan is a whole Greek Cypriot ruled Cyprus which doesn’t sound so democratic to me. We can discuss this until morning so I’m going to stop and wish you kalinixta.
That’s just an attempt of Germany to influence a hypothetical European army directly, since Germany is not allowed to have an army greater than a certain number (WWII)
funny you have the flag of cyprus as profile pic, i can’t think of a better place where EU forces would be able to improve the situation. Especially now that the UK is fucking off, who knows what happens to their presense on the Cyprus isle
The EU would only use it to force Europeans to accept globalist ideology. Every corrupted empire in history recruited mercenaries to keep power. Unfortunately as each month goes by it feels more true. The EU is not representing Europeans but global business and global elite.
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
PS. if NATO is the defence mechanism then that automatically includes the UK armed forces in the defence of europe
Actually the EU turned a blind eye to a million plus migrants the German government encouraged to come to Germany breaking all EU regulations in the process. The German government even cited a need for workers as a justification. Big business love cheap labour.
diana
They also turned a blind eye to what some of those migrants did to the German women . They even turned a blind eye to the fact that some of them went and killed other Europeans in terrorist attacks. How can you have a cohesive EU when one woman decides to let in millions of people without any consultation with other members. . Then she demands other countries take them . She then does a deal , without any consultation, with Turkey to get her out of the mess and promises them free movement in the EU. All of this chaos because she wants to appear to be a saint before the next election. Can you imagine what she will do with an army at her command ?
Definitely yes. The current European Security and Defence Policy unit of the EU needs to be expanded and transformed into a all professional million personnel EU Defence Force
Yes, Europe should have an INDEPENDENT, EUROPEAN military force all by itself, however, it should be wise and restrained enough to never use it for hegemonic purposes, like SOME OTHER BACKWARD primitive apes do. If Europe finally has its own army, it should only be used for defensive and peaceful purposes, never again for all those arrogant escapades on the continent and in the world as Europe is, alas, infamous for from history. Peace
What has the Dutch Ukraine -EU AA ref got anything to do with bullying or the EU army ? An advisory ref with a turnout of 32 % ? Gimme a break troll, though I must admit an answer from the infamous Ivan is quite the honour.
Next time u should be critical of the UK army and it’s existence, no longer is it the business of the English, or wherever else you come from, what the EU does.
NO! I don´t want my children fighting for the global elite! NO, NO, NO!!!! Plus, EU is going to fall like a sand castle…We have Brexit already, and if Le Pen wins, France will exit too…And this´s the begining…Bullshit to EU! They have been leading us to misery, poverty, etc…They have been playing the banks cartel game all the time long…NO!!!
each EU member has an army – all it needs is a new command structure and a job/control/transparency description agreed upon. Could result in great savings and possible less corruption on purchases.
Please, tell us why European states should spend money on military when we have NATO, which is already asking for much more money than it should. Are you threatened by any other country? Or have we problems with migration, employment, social security, demography and welfare state? Please, let me know if your priority is bombing some other state for the sake of doing it
The defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
If you think europe does not need defence then you have obviously not appreciated the continuous and continuing state of peace in europe and around the world generally has enjoyed derived directly from NATO.
What NATO is asking is very reasonable – it’s asking for states to help in their own defence – and in return NATO guarantees to defend such nations with the might of all the member nations- one of which as mentioned is the most powerful on earth.
Go in Ukraine or Crimea and ask people from there if they want cuts in the military. So long you have neighbours who want to rebuild empires (Putin,Erdogan) and unstable countries as in north Africa you cannot afford the luxury of not having an army. For example Italy exists because it has an army to defend its teritory
Unfortunately the actual solution for having a foreign policy commissioner doesn’t work. I think that is better to have a council of foreign ministers, which to apoint a representative.
You keep asking and I keep saying no! It cant even manage a currency responsibly so why trust it with an army? Ireland had an army controlled remotely for 800 years by people with no cultural appreciation or knowledge of the country. Do you think we re going to sign up for another? The Germans knew nothing despite besserwisserei about the financial crisis in Ireland and didnt want to know. Ireland will never accept the jackboots of a foreign army again.
Totally. I think even Eurosceptics should agree on that. Denying cooperation in other areas has its arguments, but not when it comes to common EU defence policy
Without a complete and effective defence system EU will be open to the threats of every tyrant in the area such as Erdogan. Being intimidated by such tyrants EU loses its credibility and as a result earns the contempt of its members who will seek security within their national borders after exiting the EU. Lack of EU defence will signal its downfall
This whole debate on ‘defense’ is sickening. I say: the less we spend, the better we will be in the longer term. I think Einstein had a great quote on that: “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
We share the same territory, we have the same threats and we suppose to have the same security goals,hence the European army is a necessity. In case of war we must be united, so none restrains from the effort because the war is to at its border. NATO it is a partial solution because it doesn’t pay for the armies from the Eastern Europe who are poorer, but more exposed at external aggression. For example Netherlands spend 10 billion $ in military expenditures while Latvia who has a flat field between them and Russia, spend 250 millions. If Russia attacks Latvia,Netherland has to intervene because it is in NATO, but its investment in military was not done for Latvia, and it could be of little help (due to distance, technology etc), and Netherland will lose more men in the war. A better defended Latvia will discourage a Russian intervention and Netherland will not fight in the war. Now too much is invested where is not need (Western Europe) it and little is invested where is need it (Eastern Europe)
What would you feel like if I said “Never with poor Portugal”? What is this? ENOUGH with this last century non-sense. This is 2000! No nationalism is welcome, nationalism is old, stinky and toxic. EU means European UNION, not Division. Germany is nothing more and nothing less than all the other nations of Europe and Member States of the Union. Always with Germany! And always with the other 26 Member States, yours comprehended! And also always with all the other European States which will join our huge, unprecendented project of unity, peace and prosperity.
Yes to an EU army, it will be another step to unite our citizens and our intensions. Yes to an EU army also part of NATO. Why do the USA or Canada have a united army while for us there are 27 different, money-sucking, semi-authonomous, not well organised bodies? Do we talk about South Carolina army, Nebraska army, California Republic army, Saskatchewan? Not even thinkable, right? So why are we still back to decades ago, with a Slovenian army, a Swedish army, a Spanish army?Let’s face reality, it would be a disaster to control all this mess if a real threat came to our door. We must stand together to be strong and free, as our allies are and have been for a long time now. STOP INDIVIDUALISM OF NATIONS INSIDE EU, we need a country, this is not 1900.
Excuse me maybe i’m wrong, but aren’t you from Leeds, in England, in United Kingdom, soon-to-be out of EU? If that is the case, why do you use WE and why should your opinion count?
Anyway, this is a dialogue and i am open to everyone’s opinion, wether you’re in or out of the Union, IF it is built on something. So, maybe you want to give a reason to your comment to why the European Union shouldn’t be a whatever federation, confederation, association kind of united country?
I will tell you a reason. British army is the best in the world FACT. Look at the standards of military in EU member states, there shiiiit the standard will drop and look at the Danish army if it rains they go home the dutch the Austrians. conscript’s and like the funding the UK gives to pay for people in other countries we would be paying for these fuckers. Happy we are leaving the corrupt united states of Europe. Europe is lost it will be the united states of islam soon, your all blinkered and cant see whats right in front of you. A war is commng and all in the name of islam
I don’t know, maybe because when e.g. Greece spent for its army the NATO 2% contribution, we got molested by the rest of EU for that?
Unless, you realized when it really matters Europe is divided….
First fix where Europe’s own citizens come from. Who is going to take a stand against the huge rise in illegal migration with either fake passports or with duplicate (ID Fraud) passports that are readily available from Hungary, Poland and Bulgaria. The problem in Britain is that we don’t know where most people from the EU are actually from as there are just so many fake and duplicate ID and passports for these people. The British system works on the assumption that if the documents are legal then so is the person, problem is for the last 4 years most illegal workers are getting real documents by using the details of real people with and/or without permission of the real person. So really checking documents without checking to see if the person is actually resident in more than one country is a waste of time, but in an age where we are looking for cheap answers we will never stop the avalanche of undocumented people working and living, getting finance and creating havoc with assumed identities. If in doubt then go to Ukraine in the Oblasts of Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk and in the villages and towns as see where more then 70% of the citizens have acquired duplicate ID’s to work in Europe, and forget the police and Frontex – they just couldn’t be bothered.
Yes, a new Europe, a new EU Government and Parliament, lobbies out, corruption out, same taxes, same rights, one common army, no more secret commisions.
Absolutely not! 1) IT army is voluntary. 2) who would fight for another country? 3) who decide to fight who and how many soldiers involve in a conflict? Germany – France- Italy? EU IS NOT UNITED AND WON’T BE NEVER UNITED.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
Εvery EU country has an army although only Greece and Cyprus have external threats from Turkey a member of NATO and candidate member of EU!!!!!.So a joint force from existing armies for use against EUs threats is possible.This move will eliminate member countries armies to minimum number for use in internal emergency situations.Overall number of armed forces on EU wil be significantly cut and preformance improved very much.
No. EU is getting tyrannical and this could be a danger to its people. Leadership of the EU has a lot to answer for. They have enabled terrorism and crime to blossom and endangered their own people. They need to be in jail. Then we could talk about army.
No. Europe is not North America. A united states here cannot work. The cultural differences on pretty much all levels are so large it would just be awkward. Europe will never be a country, deal with it.
At a time where so many people feel disenfranchised, ignored an steamrolled by out of touch beurocrats in Brussels, further stripping away national sovereignty and further integration into a synthetic state is not the right way to go.
Stop lingering on the 20th century, Victor Kristiansson! We’ve built a union because we came to the conclusion that we have more in common than what sets us apart! Of course we’ll never be a country, Europe has a lot of regional idiosyncracies, but I believe that is what makes us stronger!
Angele
Not that for the time being, but discussion could go on. In general, I am pro military forces, being global rather regional, like NATO, UN peace keepers to avoid the bias. To improve the same, and devote EU budged money for the social pillar. Against additional militarisation, it can just provoke the conflicts. It costs, but the experience of the last decades shows the applications mainly for peace keeping purposes.
Some countries would want to settle old scores with foes (Greece – Turkey relations come often close to confrontation). Why should a Dutchman have to fight a war which is not a collective issue concerning strictly two old foes?
So what you suggest is that if we don’t have an EU army Greece will go to war with Turkey? First of all it makes no sense, second of all both are NATO members and whoever is the attacked one will be supported by NATO, and last but not least: Greece is in the Eurozone and Eurozone countries will do everything to make the currency as stable as possible so they will support Greece.
While I can understand this solidarity argument about the eurozone (costing just money), I cannot even imagine having to deal with divisive situations such as a military confrontation between Greece and Turkey (which has been averted mainly by [and thanks to] ol’ Uncle Sam’s intervening). It just ain’t as simple as it seems. There ‘s a lot of things at stake, more than a dislike for Erdogan. There are interests involved, huge arms deals, Russia is just around the corner. Countries will be divided. All the time there will be exclusion prerogatives put forward by countries not comfortable with (or interested in) such and such a confrontation. To replace NATO with an alternative organisation will be risky and it will cause trouble rather than solve problems. As I said, with America out of the way, countries might be tempted to use the new organisation to their advantage in terms of security
You make me laugh, main problem of NATO is underfunding cause only 5 nations pay what it is agreed (Germany pay only 60% what it should) but we will create another army to fix that problem (maybe we can set the level of payments it of the half of nato agreement ) that way for the new army it will seems that everything is ok)
An army that is European will bring young people together from across Europe with a common goal and instill in them a sense of being European that doesn’t exist today. It is consequently critical to a European future that there be an European army.
A common goal to kill savage Russians. How nice. Sign me up!
There is no European identity this won’t save Europe. How about working on promoting some more direct forms of governance participation this would also bring people together in a common purpose.
Joerg Sp – Your common goal, not mine. No need to be a warmonger. The goals of the army are to be determined by the European Parliament. And just because you say something doesn’t make it true: that’s the way of Trump and his type. There is without question an European identity; it is very young, and may never reach adulthood, but it exists.
No. Most of EU members are Nato members and this is more than enough. Keeping in mind EU leadership and it’s policy, Europe is more safe under NATO wing led by the USA.
Only moroons and retards have ‘army’. Peoples with no brain, gangsters have army. Army is good just for distruction, entire country distruction, like we know yet …
Depends on which place on Earth your country is. For example we are always threatened by Turkey and the EU won’t support us on diplomatic level because the weaponry we buy are French and German. So I think it is a little bit more complicated than that.
Yes. The task of such a common army to be clearly defined as not for foreign assignments with options for catastrophe relief. Would save each EU member lots of money in Admin and acquisition of material. Who are National armies within the EU defending against? Who are the enemies? Qui bono?
That’s nice as an idea. The point is, who will command such army? The diplomatic agenda is different for each country and maybe this kind of army, might not be as efficient in protecting the peripheral eu countries meaning their personal rights and land against adversaries. And yes, I’m talking about the approach Germany has chosen ,supporting with her absence, Turkey’s offensive strategy and the occupation of Cyprus
We need less militarism and confrontation in this world and not more, we need to dismantle the NATO and forget about any kind of further aggressive posturing. The environmental threat is the most important one. Also social stratification and increasing divides across and between countries poison our European society. This should be our priorities not some kind of false security through fostering a second cold war.
Europe doesn’t need another major financial parasite. What it need is less hoplophobia. Unfortunately, it’s the other way they are pretty eager to do the things.
Who is going to attack Europe? Or is it already happening? Do not you see alien aggressive people in your streets? You do not need an army but intellect and firmness. Otherwise, your country with its culture will disappear and you even will not notice it.
Petros Papadimas I would not rely on Germans on the threat of Turkey or Russia. I would rather be afraid of the German army. The Islamization of Germany and France deepens.
Only after the clear definition of shared values and goals among all the Nations in the EU. Only after the election of a federal government and a federal President directly voted by all the citizens of the Union.
A united Europe can work efficiently with National Armys, a disentegrated Europe will need a Euroarmy to enforce unpopular political agenda .. what is the right thing to do?
A good way to build a stronger European identity. An Army is not an attack on other countries, but a defensive option. France and Germany have strong national armies anyway, and Brussels is not a bogey man! However, this thread should be about how best to proceed in creating a viable and feasible EU Army, not about critics against “stupid/anti-democratic policies”.
Yannis Manassis
If we think who protects EU today, then it is not really the national armies. We heavily depend on NATO, which though we should continue participating (as EU, not as individual countries), we should be able to defend EU without any real external dependence, as today, from NATO,
Yet special concerns should rule the externals borders of EU and this army will never replace local armies. Even though to proceed with a common army we should first have solved the more substantial questions of what kind of Union we want/need and for what purpose: it is highly time (even passed time) to move forward to a real Federation of people (not states!).
The Hague Invasion Act was written, by AmeriKKKans, as a threat to European countries and members of the International court to protect their mass murders and war criminals from justice. It would make sense to have an European Army, but with the enemy already sleeping inside of Europe in their military bases and torture chambers spread in the continent, what good will it do, if we still play the role of vassals with a Trojan horse?
Why… So the rich can get richer and the poor dead??? Read this very carefully bitch. FUCK YOU!!!
Send the motherfuckers back from where they came from and get a fuck out of their land. Like it used to. But I guess is too late now, is it!!!
We have fought the german dogs for a century and now we have give them the continent on a silver plate.
GERMANY is already incorporing foreign regiment in it’s army.
Better with the Russians than with the germans.
Military power is strongly connected with Diplomacy. We don’t have a common diplomacy yet SO, we wan create a European DEFENSIVE army and let countries have their own small armies that they can use freely. for foreign issues.
…of course not ….we dont need army to destroy …other countries ..and then to create terrorists…dont forget who destroyed so many countries…especially Syria stop bombing innocent people…infants …no european army…
Alexandros Gerofotis
How about solving the Eurocrisis first? Ohhh , there are Euros for a European army you say? So Greece spending 2% of its budget as per NATO instructions was not so bad???? Well, then, if Greece leads that army….We have paid for it after all
Yes, si, oui… Along with all the necessary security apparatus, such as a CIA like organization, it is extremely necessary to have proper intel services.
With Trump, Brexit and Putin, the EU countries get more vulnerable. Who knows what will happen! Brexit breaks the balance of forces in Europe. I believe the EU has to be prepared to defend the EU countries.
Yes! A united EU army, with free enrolment from all countries. It could be phased-in across a couple of decades while national armies are phased-out. With UK’s departure, English becomes a perfectly fitting neutral lingua franca for command. This would make Euorope more independent from NATO and enable a better resources allocation
Ēriks Gasiņš: so what?!? This doesn’t change to situation. It is self-evident that the European countries are not free to decide their foreign policy and this is clearly link to NATO and the American presence in Europe. Who else has so many military basis in Europe, despite not being part of this continent?
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be made here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be done here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
José Bessa da Silva: the poor outcome is precisely caused by the fact that there is not a real government. Each state things just about itself and this is what is killing the EU!
Europa debe tener su propio ejército, sino será un paria entre las Naciones, y su papel no es ese ni tampoco Europa ha llegado hasta aquí para ser una paria. Además tiene mucho que defender.
No unicamente su proprio ejercito pero tambien sus proprios administrationes incluido una constitution de base .
Sin esos bases fundamentales yo me pregunto hasta donde Europa va ha llegar .
(1) The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union. (2) In addition, EU army would disrupt the current balance of military power in the world, which would be unacceptable for current powers and would bring various consequences.
I’ve heard this question asked time and time again, but very little on what this proposed army would entail. Is it just a fancy way of saying increased co-operation between nation states’ militaries or an amalgamation of all the said armed forces into one single bloc? And if the latter, how is it to be managed? How will the various language barriers be overcome? I really need more information on the proposal before I can truthfully answer yes or no to this question.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time it is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on it’s own legs with it’s head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels.
United We Are Stronger
Sorry confederation. Beside that. There are several layers of central government interference.
I don’t think europe is ready for a union so thight. Even if eu officials are pushing in that direction.
Maybe in fifty years, assuming that a pro eu generation will rise and eu iwon’t alienate itself from all the south of the continent.
Beside that, may the europe have a short life.
UK won’t get a say on the matter now, so will have to sit on the sidelines and accept whatever the EU does. However can’t see countries like Ireland agreeing to this, so can’t see it happening
No. It is time for Germany Limited Liability Company to stop pretending to be a nation with a Constitution, for Merkel and hohorts to stop robbing nations and stealing their sovereignty… and stop excessive spending of the EE that is intent on enslaving the people.
No. It wouldn’t get past Ireland and Austria, even if it worked for Sweden and Finland. Until the issue of strictly neutral countries is resolved, this issue cannot be touched.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on its own legs with its head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels due to United we are Stronger.
No, and I really wish that people who want deeper EU integration realise how counterproductive the very term ‘EU army’ is. The EU will always have its proud nation states whether people like it or not and what the EU needs is a closer military alliance built on top of the existing EU structures that allows flexible opt outs for those countries that wish to retain their neutrality. An EU army will be commanded by whome, Junker? Let’s not be ridiculous and let us work on what already exists. That is how the EU will survive into the future.
I am of the opinion that we need a strong EU army because we have plenty of enemies. To the East from different religious parties and from the West the wicked capitalism!
Your enemies are not my enemies. The EU is profoundly corrupt. I’m not willing to give power to the mafia installed in Brussels nor to befoe friends thanks to foreign problem. My country’s only enemy to the east is spain.
I am speaking for all Europe not specifically for my country (for instance Greece)… If we want to have a unique and completely union then the enemies are same for all of us… Yes, your enemy is Spain but both of you are in Europe… You have more to earn than to divide…
I just love the baseless accusations of the EU being “profoundly corrupt”. Any EU Member State on its own is far more corrupt than the EU which has very rigid transparency protocols in place.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Yes, because the EU is econimic giant, but dwarf in military security. Europe must defence itself against foreign enemies and be a big political player in the world.
If you ‘are trying to convince anyone,
you ‘ll be disappointed , and the military is very expensive , disband the NATO out from an EU ‘s army, would be better and, we should also remember that, not everybodys’ citizens, friends as well as enemies, desire an American policeman around.
The EU army must be neural from the NATO, if yes, I ‘ll agree the same too , otherwise I’ll rescind.
it should not be because of Brexit it should have happened right in the beginning and should be enlarged as the EU grows. The Brussel Politions will not defend the people they will hide behind the people.
of course we should have an EU army. Even an European army including other European countries who want to participate. A new sort of NATO alliance of purely European countries.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Putin, Erdogan, terrorists, just to name a few. Also, we would stop relying on the U.S. for our defense. Is it fair that only 5 out of the 29 members pay their due while the rest enjoy the benefits of the alliance without actual contribution. These are the U.S. and the states bordering Russia. When is Europe gonna understand that yesterday it was Georgia, today it’s Ukraine, therefore tomorrow it could be central Europe!
yes, there should be an EU army. Against who? Every country has an army so EU has to have one if we are to see some kind of confederation in the near future.
If this EU army can defend us from Great Britain and AmeriKKKa and it also has a banking system to maintaing stability in Europe without sacrificing the lives and sovereignty of Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Greece and other small, less important countries, the way NATO is doing to satisfy AmeriKKKa, this could be an improvement.
To answer correctly you need to have a real European approach and not just wanting Europe for the benefits only. You see the borders of Europe are not threatened by … Russia only.
Europeans are today concerned for Krimea and Ukraine … a non EU member BUT keep a blind eye on the occupation of EUROPEAN territory … there in CYPRUS!
I’m an American and I think it’s a great idea for the EU to have an army because I think the EU should not depend on the US army due to the instability of our political system. The US political system seems to be going way off track in recent years. Basically we only have two parties and one of the two parties(the Republican party) has become extreme and very disruptive.
Considering the Eu’s current political leanings and involvements, I strongly disagree. Think about their permanent illegal buildings in Israel, and the UN peace corps raling children in Africa, whom they are supposed to protect.
Those are terrible incidents but the US totally funds and supports Israel’s military in suppressing the Palestinians and the Israeli human rights violations. The EU needs some protection against the aggression of the Russian army. Look at the Crimean takeover and military aggression in Ukraine. Trump is opposed to Western Europe and supports the authoritarian dictatorships of Russia and Turkey, as well as, the rolling back of democratic laws in Poland and other East European countries. There’s a rise of populism, fascism, nationalism, etc. in the world today that is very scary. The Western European legacy of democracy, human rights, rule of law, and freedom needs to be preserved in the face of growing authoritarian dictatorships like Putin Erdogan, and Trump.
The EU bureaucrats have wanted their own army since the Lisbon Treaty 2009. The militarisation of europe was written all over that wretched treaty. They’ll use any excuse to get their army and if Russia fits their purpose, they’ll use it. This is all about the slow and steady dismantling of sovereign nation states and the creation of a superstate. No thanks to either proposition. #NoSuperState #NoEUArmy
Why not, we must have our defense and we leave NATO which is not our defense, so we must form the Western European Union ,and after the European political union,but we must finish the European Economy conclusion
…And the pic is of a 50 year old woman, because an army’s primary function is to represent a society’s inclusiveness to all. Oh, and if we get into any real trouble, the US will step in and save us anyway. So French.
Yes, but only if the EU reforms to an accountable people’s democracy first and only then! Europeans have a tragic history of giving too much power to particular individuals who then use it for their own imperial ambitions leading to crippling wars and the destruction of our land and peoples. Prevention is better than cure!
It should have been formed from the beginning of the EEC about 30 years ago. Instead you have left borders like the Hellenic sea to be a passage for refugees and terrorists into Europe. Let’s see now how you handle the Turkish slave drivers and the mad Turkish president
There are most urgent issues than creating an EU army. For instance, we should find out properly what the Europeans think about themselves, about their values and citizenship goals and, only then, start launching policies according to the results. I can understand why Juncker thinks this is kind of an assurance that war between us will never happen again but…I’m afraid they want to do it quickly. It requires a lot of coordination and decision making. Therefore, I’d say that it could work and it seems a nice idea…but maybe it’s not the right moment. And overall, I prefer Europe to lead the world’s peace movement.
It’s time for EU to have its own voice, labor union, currency, harmonized employment laws, minimum social welfare criteria and authority over its member states to avoid being tricked by gimmicks.
Heaven forfend – they could not even organise a piss up in a brewery!!
Smaragda Skordi
Europe is andoubtly a christian continent. Traditions, state functions and procedures, culture and many other facets of public life in most European countries, are based on Christianity.However, recenly, the inflow of refugees and immigrants and also the cultural shift in EU has icreased the persentage of the population that belongs to other religions (or they are atheists)but also the tolerance towards the beliefs and traditions of such polpulation.I m not sure that we still can talk about a “Christian Europe”. Multicultural, yes. Multi-religious”, yes. It is a continent that is changing, a continent that includes and welcomes “the different”. But, what will be the final result and what will be the dominant religious group in the future? We do not know yet. And, we should not abolish our Christian traditions so easily. However, we have to live in peace with other religious groups and give every European citizen the freedom to hold his/her own beliefs without being mistreated or discriminated in the name of religion or other “characteristic”.
diana
Yes like the war in the former Yugoslavia when the EU just sat on its hands whilst genocide took place , wholesale rape of children and women , shooting of men and boys . They did NOTHING . The EU has no backbone and will only ever use an army to fight anyone who dares to stand up to the Eurocrats and Germany. This is just one step nearer to an EU superstate
Europe is threatened with the invasion of simple uncivilized people, not alien armies. The second threat to the EU is its officials with a modest intellectual potential
Maciek Zbżerzny if we greeks use our navy to stop illegal imigration and for exampel we would send 50 boats to our borders to watch for illigal imigrants … the next day turkey will have more than 100 boats at their site calling this action of greece a “war threat”.This what you say is not possible.Only an EU coast guard can do this with no threats from turkey.This are EU borders…i can not understand why we greeks have to buy weapons to defend EU borders and other countries who dont have botders with non EU countries dont help us out with this situation.And of course we have to buy weapons from our eu friends every year.The greek army uses about 30% of our GDP.
A EU Defense Force is long overdue to defend and protect the European Union from external threats like the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union designed by Turkey to undermine and destroy the European Union beginning with the European Institution of Schengen A EU Defense Force would also put a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation of EU member Cyprus since 1974 , which is a British- Turkish alliance against the Americans in Cyprus since 1950 designed to keep the Americans out of Cyprus.
Go for it, we are ready. The result will be the same as every other time a crazed bunch of Europeans with a flag & a plan to unite Europe create an army. :)
In a continent of conflicting interests with a wide variaty of strategic thinking, I ask: who will this army defend us against? We ‘ve got to agree on certain fundamental principles, and -most important- decide who our enemy is. Till then, it’s a waste of money
Brussels would use its army to keep the Nations within the EU in line, would they use it to make you comply with their dictates ? of course they would.
Some EU countries consider enemies countries which are allied to the West via NATO. Some other countries have long standing issues with historical archrivals (Romania-Hungary, or Slovakia-Hungary, or Greece-Turkey). In case of a crisis within Europe, will the EU army remain unbiased at the sidelines? What if one of the two parties requests help? Will the EU army intervene on behalf let’s say of Greece against Turkey? Does an Estonian or a Luxembourger even care about that?
Wouldnt a European Military Ministry/Force lessen the chances of conflict happening inside the EU? It would be another oportunity for integration, this time for soldiers/marines/pilots of different countries, and what the EU needs the most is integration, people putting aside nationalism for European pride
Acaso não tem uma guerra diplomática pendente por conta da ZEE das Selvagens? Acaso não há Olivença? Acaso não existe Almaraz? Ou devemos perdoar o incumprimento do Tratado de Albufeira por parte de espanha? Não sou eu que vou “buscar”. O que digo são factos e a história está em livros para que a leiam. Encontre um enimigo deste país, sem ser espanha, que tenha tantos conflitos territoriais e diplomáticos…não encontra!
The European Union should have a common army as a counterbalance to the Russian army. one who does not understand the importance of his own European army, he has no idea of life. Have neutrality and similar ideas for kindergarten.
Well, there are kindergartens, where kids are taught history so that they remember what germans did to the world ….and today’s EU is German hegemony, isn’t it? Who do you think such army would serve. Remember the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?
Barbara Szela Lesniak You do not understand the world. Reality is something else. I am from Croatia. We had many wars in history, but we did not want one. Do you have your culture and how to protect yourself from the great mix of cultures that are not cultures, “” You know who you are, where you are and where you go. Left political options lead you into big problems you are probably unknowingly aware of.
Too soon. A European Border Guard and a European Coast Guard first.
Next comes a European Air force and Navy.
We have plenty of armies. Leave that until last.
The border patrol sounds very nice. But just imagine sending troops to Hungarian borders that are under EU’s direct supervision. All they’d be doing would be saying “Welcome to Europe”
Each state have and should pay for their own border and coast guards. The UE is not a country and I am not willing to waste money on someone elses borders.
“UE army” means “IV Reich”. Booth are totalitarian. Germany has already burned Europe 2 times. Now germany barbarians are going to burn it 3th time using “refugees” and “UE army”.
That would be a dream for Germany! I hope that Germany is kept out of it for histórical reasons. We miss UK to balance Germany’s ever increasing EU power overtaking.
How can you put Germany out if it’s one of the most powerful armies in the EU they are a democracy now come on be real…but in my view we must go into a federation with a government elected by all of us citizens…
You are such an ignorant. You had to be spanish. My country is one of the most euriceptic and that is why our government had to join anti-EU patliamentary forces in order to reach a majority. Read the news.
Magaly Morales If EU were democratic (but it’s not), there would be different ideas discussed and referendum used as the tool to decide. Poland has always been pro-EU, but aren’t we entittled to different opinions on e.g. Merkel’s immigrant policy? Does it have to be Germany and their French puppet to decide for other independent UE countries. And remember, EU is not a country.
We need a European Army. Now separately we are spending more in total than warmongering USA . It is not practical or efficient.
Also we have a wonderful chance of creating an Army for the future, and Army without old concepts.
We need an Army that fully protects the EU citizens not only from other countries attacks but agains forest fires, floods, earthquakes, illegal migration, cyber attacks…a new Army this century.
There is no “european citizens” because the EU is not a country and never will be. It is also a lie that a common army will cost less, it all depends on how much you’re willing to waste. The world does not need more armies, nor do I need more taxes to waste on a military that would beused to impose foreign interests.
What wee need is to end the EU and return to be simply a single market.
José Bessa da Silva sorry, but you are in a very minority. Europe will be a country, that will stop any possibility of war in Europe and will make us stronger to defend ourselves against multinational corporations, trade unfairness, health and safety of our food and services, defends of environment…and a lot more.
And Europe will have an Army fit for this century Europeans needs and will stop dependency from USA and we will save lots of money that can go to services.
No, Im not in a minority and you will notice that when you see yourself with a war in your hands for trying to impose an imperialistic project on us.
It is also funny you claim the EU protect us from multinationals. That is the biggest lie of all times. The EU IS made andrun by multinationals. Multinationals use Brussels to enter in our countries.
The EU is a corrupt, vile institution and has no future. It already started to crumble. Only lunatics believe an antidemocratic institution has a future among the most educated nations on earth. You and the corrupt elite you protect are the real minority and will eventually suffer the same fate as Luis XVI if you do not change your ways.
José Bessa da Silva your very small country have benefited enormously from entering the EU. And as I said, your opinion is not shared by a majority of your country’s citizens. Your opinion is just an oddity amongst the opinion of the vast majority of your country.
Im sucha an oddity in fact, that Portugal current government is supported by anti-EU parliamentary forces. You know, your speeach about my nation sounds just like that about the UK. ” Oh no, they will never vot yes”, “The majority is in favour of the EU”, etc. Than, well, we all know how you eurofools fooled yourselves…
Gino Ronzitti it was Russia, not USA, the ones liberating Europe. USA came to pick up the rest and carry out the looting of anything valuable that was left in Europe, including nazis scientists and engineers . And we haven’t been able to get rid of them ever after. Time to go home, Yankee
Right, you trust more the propaganda made by EU in favour of the EU than electoral results and opinion pools made in the country you’re speaking about. Logic. It is very wise of you…hahaha
You are delusianal Morales. You should be institutionalized. Continentalists tend to suffer from dementia. If it wasn’t for us atlanticists this continent would be a mess of dictatorships, corruption, poverty and war.
If you have followed European Politics for the last decades, British influence in Europe have cost Europe trillions in loses and millions of employment. And have stopped the EU project from advancing. No, I don’t think Europe is going to miss Britain. We are going to miss Europe a lot more, until the older generation that voted Brexit is gone and we can return to Europe.
Po co taka kosztowna(!)armia, skoro i tak do pilnowania granic zewnętrznych UE wynajmuje się de facto żołdaków Erdogana czy libijskich bandytów, bo armie posiadaczy granic nie mogą … działać??? ;-)
Arnout Posthumus that’s the problem right there – inward thinking about Europe. How many EU countries contribute to war and oppression abroad with their weapons sales, for example?
We need to have a Europe that de-escalates conflicts and helps negotiates peace.
A EU army is a step towards a federation that’s the way to go a EU federation with a president or prime minister elected by all Europeans through an universal vote not like US where there is a stupid electoral college…that’s why we must integrate finances, army, education, foreign affairs, that’s why we need a working state for that we need a Federation…countries independent and a common transnational government for finances, education, labor, army, foreign affairs, telecommunications, transports between all the states…at this point the EU commission has limited powers and it’s not elected by us citizens
You can’t integrate army’s before taxes that’s a con. And plus there’s is no democracy without the votes of each country are equivalent otherwise the small will bend to the biggest. We don’t need a UE controlled by the northern countries and also warmongers like France once UK is out of the way. The romantic view doesn’t correspond to the reality.
Please do you know what you are saying if we had an EU army all the states would spend less on defence it would be better for all and there would be more money available for other areas, please go see for yourself before saying those things that’s not true a common army is cheaper than everyone having individual armies…
ΕU army under German control will just revive the days of Charlamene and NAZIs. They have already distroyed the economies of Europe and stolen the sovereignty of nations — not to be trusted.
Friend a EU army won’t be controlled by Germany the nuclear weapons are on France…Italy and Poland have great armies and the other countries too so I don’t think Germany in this EU army will be the dominant force specially because the big guns nukes and aircraft carrier are in France…but in terms of politics I myself defend an EU federation were all of us would vote on an EU president or Prime Minister, in that federation Germany wouldn’t have the ability to rule Europe why simple mathematics, Germans are 80 millions the EU as about 500 millions citizens so with a president elected by 500 millions a country with 80 millions can tell him what to do so we must go to a Federation with universal voting not to an US system with an electoral college, in Europe who has the most votes combined wins…!
Should Europe have its own army? With Britain set to (in theory) leave the EU in 2019, one of the largest defence spenders in the European Union is about to leave. Almost 25% of EU defence expenditure currently comes from the UK, and Britain has historically obstructed any moves towards a common EU military. With the British and their veto on their way out (and with President Trump openly questioning US commitment to NATO) could it finally be time to move ahead on security and defence integration?We reject any further militarisation of the European Union and believe that the European Union should be a purely civilian union and not a military union. Therefore, this question is superfluous in the context of our basic program. At the same time, however, I would like to say that, even if one supported this idea, which I do not, it is not constitutionally possible at all in my view. For a European army we would also need a European federal state, with corresponding parliamentary powers which the European Parliament does not have at all.
We don’t believe it’s a good idea to have a common army. We think that we have, for example, the battlegroups that we can send out in peacekeeping missions; they have never been used so far, even though they cost a lot. That could be a first step towards working more together. It’s good to coordinate the different armies we have in Europe, but we should not have a common European army.
It wouldn’t be a problem, in technical terms, to establish military units or a so-called ‘European army’. The political question is how and when, or for what purpose this army will be used. We are again speaking about the problems of political unity. We have to agree who is our enemy and where we should engage our army. And I remember how it was when Slovenia was attacked 25 years ago. At that time, there was no European Common Foreign and Security Policy. And I would say we still have problems with that because different Member States have different opinions of the main challenges.
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Yes ! to save money and be more efficient ;)
And who would command this army and in what language?
The command should be turned between the states, and it should be divided by nationalities
..and there in lies the biggest problem, 27 nations each working to their own agendas is why the EU as an organisation is so inept…..trying to force 27 militaries under one command and control structure will lead to one of the most ineffective armed forces on the planet….
Yup
That’s again an odd question. Militaries from various EU countries already work together a lot, mostly under the umbrella of NATO. Ergo, an “EU army” can easily be formulated through closer cooperation, outside NATO. It’s a parallel to the EU itself, countries retain their individuality, etc. while also being stronger as part of a community.
NATO works because (like it or not) the US as the largest contributor dominates proceedings. Just who exactly is going to be the lead country in any EU army?
the uk the best armed forces in Europe will not be part of it anyway we will stick with America the strongest armed forces in the world 21 years service british army
Duh
In current state ….no. EU needs to be drastically fixed
Only if used within EU countries to protect citizens and kick out illegal migrants.
Fuck this idea! And the people behind.
An army under the bEUraucrats? No thanks
Si è il momento giusto .E deve anche sviluppare una deterrenza credibile nucleare partendo da quella Francese It is the right time .It must also develop a credible nuclear deterrence starting with the French, not to be a rich and luxurious porcelain vase in the middle of the iron pots …
What about ceasing all attempts to disarm its own people first?
No one in Europe is armed. You are posting on the wrong country forum, Mr Troll.
It is time for PEACE!
Thats why armies exist lol
absolutly no !!!!!
You’d rather keep free-riding us forever? You’d rather NOT have the capability to deal with your own near-abroad?
No
why not?
Because it’d be only useful to repress European countries and his protesters. Perfect approach in order to have a civil war.
Agreed, Pierluigi Dispenza, and as back up to the US on their plundering of other nations.
Yesterday was already late :P
Well they haven’t got uk army now
Kevin Ó Siondaile
Slowly. As in start with a few divisions, gradually expland. We need an EU Air Force and Navy.
what about irish and swedish neutrality Kevin? they could take on more UN duties instead. It would be more about protecting the EU borders, and intervening in disaster areas, french already have nukes…do we really need anymore? if they go off we are all screwed anyway, french and italians have good airforce and navy, irish already do a lot of UN work, not being part of the Joker in Gotham City’s lunacy would be a good thing, but also not being a part of the U.S. wars would be a good anyway, retaining control of our bases would be good too, so in prinicple yes, but carefully does it.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
What for? To protect non existing borders? Or “fascists” that do not like nice people from ME? We do not need protection, we are liberal open minded people that overcame “populist” agendas about borders and national states. Allahu Akbar! :)
But we do, turky
Renata Komninos, we do what?
So that you can First manage your own damn near-abroad, and then also stop free-riding our strategic alliance like a bunch of welfare queens, and carry some of the #$%^& strategic defense burden yourselves.
Suncica Cvitkovic Anderson there is no nice people in the ME
Max Berre, thank you massa /slave owner/, you bring 1€ in Croatia and take out 100€ in profits, so shut up! By the way Croatian troops are in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Baltic states, Africa!
If yes! And if lots of people say yes, and if army really goes ahead, it will be one step further to create Europe, Federation o states.
absolutely. NATO is good, but EU should have own army…
would you sign up to be part of this army or you just want other people to go a die for you?
these people would take our money for their services. this is just a job, same as miner or firefighter. so.. would you sign up to be part of firefight service or you just want other people to go a die for you in fire?
Yes – need to end our reliance on US power.
We have our own armed forces ,have you forgot that.
Absolutely not. The EU has far too much control over member states as it is. The EU should be disbanded. Though we’ll probably all lose another ton of money changing back to our own currencies. A beast with many unelected heads, feeding from an overflowing trough.
The alternative seems to be member-nations mostly free riding the NATO alliance. As an american tax-payer, that is not something that I wont to keep paying for indefinitely.
NATO is another pile of crap. As an Irish tax payer, I’m certainly not happy at American military planes refuling in Shannon and breaking our neutrality.
Max Berre 1. Go Trump! 2. Do you actually pay taxes in the US, are you more of an in spirit kind of American tax-payer?
Palvolgyi Denes Actually, Obama also made reference to this matter. NATO’s strategic free-ridership problem has actually been an ongoing frustration in Washington since the Clinton administration. And yes, I still have US taxes to worry about. The only way I could completely get away from that would be to renounce my US citizenship AND move all my assets abroad (not ever gonna do either of those though).
Yes. if the EU is going to matter in the world. It’s going to need its own viable institutions. It’s also going to need to be able to influence events in its own near-abroad.
If you have a problem go back to the US. You don’t tell us what to do in our own lands.
This question appear periodically – you don’t like the answers or what :D
real question is: does it make sense to have national armies within the EU? We have no borders between us and no need to have actual armies defending each other’s territories. Do we need an army for external threats to the EU? Yes of course
Have you learned nothing from the clone wars? Its all part of Sidious’ plan!
.
Nazism, Fascism, Communism and now Europeanism, only the colour of your flag changes.
Thank god we are leaving the warmongering EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39325561
We have now voted to leave and will regain our borders back.
Also you keep saying “WE”,the EU should fight it’s own battles because I can tell you as an ex serviceman virtual NO Brit would fight for the EU.Our oath is to Queen& Country.
“Warmongering EU”…
Should I remind you of who was US’ biggest ally in the phony Irak war?
I think regional forces based on blocs could distribute the costs of the armed defence of Europe. There could be a GermanoNordic bloc, FrancoLatin bloc and an Eastern bloc. This might be an effect way to divide costs while distributing responsibilities about. Just cause Britain’s left doesn’t mean that it isn’t interested in European affairs pertaining to defence. I’m sure it would come around to collaborative drills with its Allies. And let’s no forget Trump won’t be around forever folks. His popularity plummets with each breath we take. America likes it’s traditionally “unchallenged” presence in other lands and I’m sure a EU army would have the Yanks as stumped as the Russians.
YES
NO! :D
Yes, its time! Europe has a capacity to be very porwerful force globaly! This union wont survive only with money and good principles. Some … neighbours are thinking about it as a week one. Its time to show up some real power!
A careful yes. While I am a pacifist and therefore aainst ANY armies. I am for riding the EU of it’s NATO dependency.
No thank you
There pretty much is one already under NATO.
Whis serves american interests more than European ones.
Yeah, fair point. My wife is Romanian, and most people there are uneasy about the American missile system being deployed in Romania and Poland.
Nato …yes that organization that does nothing
Yes, cause next time when some nation decides to leave EU we could send army and kill all opposition like Americans did in CIvil War.
We need to defend integrity of EU even if it means exterminating all citizens or rebellious state…
/SarcasmOff
It does sound like sarcasm, doesn’t it? ….
Really?
Yes. It time for federation.
.
When Nations refuse to join your federation will you use your new army to teach them a lesson ?
Don’t be stupid.
@Duirmuid Mac Sean
I’m assuming you are of Irish origin* – Will Ireland be in the putative EU army by any chance?
*I could be wrong and if so I apologise in advance – although I consider being called Irish a compliment!
Yes… Along with a control of EU borders on land and the seas…
✊
.
‘Europeans’ had the same argument in Germany 1935, the outcome will be the same .
LOL!
No it’s not the right time for an EU army, but it’ HIGH TIME for a joint border system guarding EU including military elements.
The people who answer yes to this question make me glad I voted for Brexit. I have a child in the British military and this is my biggest fear, that one day there will be a European Army that individual member states will have no control over. It’s a dangerous plan.
As if individual member states were more or less likely to use ‘defense’ for legitimate purposes. I don’t buy it. whichever way. The least we spend on the military the better.’
Yannick Cornet at least the people of those individual states have some control. Who would be in charge of an EU army? Who would have the final word in a military situation? Militarised superpower is a dangerous thing.
There is much more control towards the EU than towards single governments. People just ignore all the consultations, referendums, representation, interaction offices, popular initiative laws, reports and transparency and so on which EU offers.
They are accountable towards many countries, not just one, and can’t control the media like national governments do, as simple as that.
But we’re happy UK is getting out, too skewed toward interests of USA more than common European ones.
Daniel Bernoulli again, who will have final say in a military campaign if we have an EU army? No one seems to be able to answer this question. Which countries general will be in charge on the battle field…it can only be one, surely?
Irrational fear. Texas was an independent state too. Thing is to keep individual states freely contributing and not forcing them
Kirstie that will be european comission prerogative. You see EU IS PEOPLE its not a bunch od reptiles or aliens but member states leaders that are making decissions
and yet no one can answer my question. i don’t think it is an irrational fear either. British people voted against action in Syria, if it was the decision of the EU then no doubt we would have been forced into military action. EU is NOT people currently, EU is not held accountable by the people, we don’t get to vote!!
Kirstie, how about the national parliaments, as it is for NATO, too? For my taste, it could also be the European Parliament – as soon as we have true European parties.
Believe me the Germans will have control …why is nobody learning from history ?
Yes, if it is not too late already.
Is time to build a federation, with a federal goverment, a federal army, a federal Police, federal justice organs and equal taxes for all EU citizens…
The EU wet dream. Nahhh… Not gonna happen.
It is also the not so wet dream of many ordinary people that want to continue living in peace as in the last 3 generations. No to nationalism. No pasaran.
You mean a superstate …are you stupid or just crazy ?
If we think of the EU unification like the unification of Germany, then its the united military spirit that will unite europe in a common goal. But its better for the EU to first create laws that will make that EU army a solely defensive force
No, the EU armed force needs to be capable of waging war in it`s full glory.
The EU Armed Forces will respond to the European Parliament, the only institution capable of deploying it.
and what kind of glory is in killing?
@Akis Muto
Solely defensive force? With France and Germany at the helm! LOL!
No! For what? To fight the Porblems made by the Leaders and the stupid following of that? We are forced to fight each other every day by “doing business” how about changing that instead of forcing on military shit?
problems*
“Time for an E.U. Army ?” Of course ! “What are they waiting for?
David Cameron was indeed right. The EU is not about peace. It’s about power.
Do you believe that any EU battle group would attack and occupy other countries like the British army did in Iraq or Libya? Maybe, military should be limited to peacekeeping operations by EU treaty. E.g. German constitution doesn’t allow attacking other countries. Still, Parliamentarians accepted attacks on Serbia and now Syria together with the British and others. I wonder why nobody is sueing them.
Yes!
Yes. Not only that it will provide cheaper and better defence, it is also a good tool of redistributing money in the EU. Specially the poor countries would benefit dramatic financially.
Yeah, we can’t wait to have your army after your troika’s occupation. Anything else?
As of yesterday!
Yes , it is about time for EU army.
Yes, because it’s the only practical way of defending ourselves. Think about it: people can move free. In times of conflict, people flee and can no longer be found where they were.
As such, they cannot be protected by their national armies, can they? The practical solution is a European army, to protect any and all people, regardless of their nationality.
This would avoid most of the ethical implications of the current setup.
You are really naive enough to believe an EU army will be there to defend us? What if a far right wing government was voted in in Germany and France …who do you think they are going to defend ? Countries are already divided . In Yugoslavia religions lived next door to each other for centuries and overnight its all gone . You really think people are Europeans first and Muslim/ Jewish / Hindu second . Democracy is very fragile and can be lost in 24hours and your grandchildren will be paying the price
Only if there is an absolute ban on operations out side European borders
What would the point of it be then? (Except to potentially oppress member states)
And after that, let’s make a new euro central bank, but for the Yen.
What the fuck kind of statement is that?
Should the army should only be for engaging member states?
Yes the poor countries will get money sent home from their dead soldiers while the liberal elite dodge the draft because they go to college
With Erdogan getting crazier week by week and the influx of potential jihadists, sure we need to improve the defensive capabilities.
The weapons lobby will be clicking their champagne glasses..
Jihadists are already in Europe thanks to A.Merkel…. Erdogan didn’t even have to lift a finger.
Stop asking and do it already.
Only if it is not controlled centralised. If the Northern europeans control the banks the southern should at least control the armies. EU is too unbalanced as it is, and people still push even further this unbalance at the expense of some nations.
@Alex
UNBELIEVABLE!
You want a proposed [evil] EU army to be controlled by countries prone to dictatorship and replete with rank corruption!
What an utter nincompoop!
So that UE led by Germany could enter Poland and make my country do whatever Germany needs to, e.g. accept the so called refugees who were invited by Angela Merkel without asking citizens of other member countries? No, thank you. NATO is enough.
Yes. But learn on weakness of shengen and euro.
What’s the point if America will be the puppeteer…
When did America get involved ?
yes, it’s time.
Germany isn’t allowed an army… this is their next move
Germany has an Army – has even fought alongside us Brits in Afghanistan
https://www.facebook.com/Bundeswehr
Of course Deutschland has an army!! Why wouldn’t they? :p
No !Nato it is good!
No, NATO is enough. EU has already much power. The example? The Brexit. We, europeans, we not made to give our power away to an international organisation in such dimension, it’s against our freedom and national identities. Solidarity, yes, total control, no.
Actually it was the people that united themselves as one. We were not conquered by EU but our nations freely united . That is the idea for EU
Not the people, the elites. When the europeans vote something about EU, usually their vote is always no, because we are not the United States of Europe, that is against our DNA. And I do not like federalism. EU is already a federalistic project. For me it’s enough. We must be united, yes, but not in a federalistic way.
I like the idea of a European federation or rebublic. There is nothing like a ‘national DNA’. We are all Europeans (even the British ;-))
Yes to an EU army to strive for peace
No to an EU army that will strive for war….
No to the EU army! There is already the European branch of NATO that can act like it.
Of course not! Want us to fight friends before the actual war starts? ;)
no, just a way to coordinate the armies of the meber states, just like EU pretty much does with most civilian domains
Who first put forward this idea of an EU army?, it wasn’t Putin by any chance was it?.
Ahahah! Here we go…! I was waiting for this for months…! NO! They want to impose martial law and then the New World Order, that´s what they want!
Which EU ? Who?
It is time.
No thank you the Eu won’t be around to much longer in its present form back to the eec and no more
What for?…the EU should be dismantled and go back to the ECM, nothing else.
Better late than never.
ΕU is in its last days.It has no external enemy and does not need armies.Only anti-terrorism police is needed and it has plenty but is functioning pretty bad.
Tagip violates daily EEZ and your airspace for…fun threatening your borders or you sleep in your world of peace and….. death in your sleap? You only care for εμφυλιο σαν γνωστοι μαζόχες
It is time for an global army alliance made up advanced,secular democratic countries regardless of geography or race. Most of europe is made up small or micro states never will be able to contribute on large scale for an regional army whereas an global alliance made of japan,Australia,European countries and latin America would be an greater and more solid platform and an better opportunity for technological transfers fir every country’s defense sector.
Yes of course! And the core will be the very successful French-German brigade. In this way will never fight against each other any more!
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
…not …its time to destroy this discusting…German Europe……!!!
NO .. Simply tighten border control, stop being Turkeys bitch, and end the war in Syria .. Or it this aimed at the pathetic claim of the “Russians are coming” if so lets gorw up.
ists time to fight al corrupted politician put them al in jail forever
I don t want the EU to prepare a war. So i don t want an EU army. Any european country has an army strong enough to ensure internal security. Why should we build something bigger?
Europe is an instrument for peace, not for war
European Armed Forces – In accordance with Article 113, 142 and 150 paragraph 3 of the Constitution of the European Union as a federal state, the European Union shall establish European Armed Forces for purposes of defence. Their numerical strength and general organizational structure must be shown in the budget of Union. Apart from defence, the European Armed Forces may be employed only to the extent expressly permitted by Constitution European Federation. http://european-federation.blogspot.com/2015/12/european-armed-forces.html
Complete load of unintelligible tripe written by a Federal EU fantasist, and you don’t need to look any further then the first paragraph to realise that (Martial law involves a little bit more than soldiers protecting property and directing traffic)
And Its quite ironic that the “coat of arms” is based on the UK combined forces insignia considering that is the one country that will never be taking part….
Have you got any military experience? If you do you probably know it can’t work
With England leaving, US withdrawing from NATO, Turkey building alliance with Russia and EU periphery burning… Not a bad idea. But who will be in command and giving orders? Juncker??
Yes after he’s had his first drink at 8.00am
Corey
Si,indiscutiblemente.Europa necesita tener un ejército propio para dar valor a su política exterior y tener una independencia real en las organizaciones internacionales,incluida la OTAN.Ademas de ser más eficientes se racionaria mucho mejor el gasto en armamento. Mejor un ejército fuerte que 27 pequeños.
The time was yesterday! We need to start investing in our military and border protection NOW!
Each country has its own issues. It will try and use this army to its own advantage, sometimes against another member country
.
What will they do with those Nations like Ireland who are neutral, ignore them again ?
YES!!!! Why duplicate efforts or have several forces with inadequate capacities, when We can have a common force with adequate capacities?
Because we don’t have the same interests! I rather have to be in my nations army “reserve personnel ” for the rest of my life than having to beg for help from people that can’t find my county on the map and they don’t really care what will happen to my people!
LOL…
It is interesting that the major opposition are members of NATO except Finland and Sweden, who according to British media they want to join the British-led Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF). The EU army is only good if it is independent from NATO and its unethical agendas. But if it is to support NATO then the EU is going in the same unethical wrong direction.
@Julia Hadjikyriacou
You honestly think that an EU army lead by the cu#t and the co#k (Germany and France) with their terrible and violent histories and predilections would be less unethical than NATO?
Yeah right!
Yes, definitely.
There are certainly other issues more urgent to be solved, the objectif of the UNion, it’s functioning together etc. Maybe there should also be a certein time for Member Srares $$$$$
Sorry, i clicked too early; Time for Member STates to reflect whether they want to follow the British example and some others just to be told, that their organisation does not correspond with european principles anymore and that they should take action to rectify this or get out of the Union
Europe needs balls first…
Hmm .. not a good idea, it would inevitably end up being controlled by the stronger countries such as Germany or France. The EU has to realize that it is not a single country and until it is (hopefully never) pushing for an EU army is always going to fail .. look what it took to unite the US, is that what EU citizens want a civil war?
Never! Why the obsession to (AGAIN & again) debate the pros & cons of an EU Army- “clearly” declared by “GIANTS” France, Germany, Italy & Spain as not to be “OUR” objective?
Only a lone ALDE “spear woman” chooses to sharpen her spear in line with other DWARFS like Lithuania, Latvia & Junckers Luxembourg. How can the published statistics of 74% “for” & “18%” against be representative? Some went bonkers?
Junckers “for” motivation typically rests on an inherited inferiority complex- “to show the world”- or? Bad! Are there no other & better options- than his ONE only option?
We have NATO – we don’t need an EU Army.
Le Chris qu’adore suçer du Great American Dick :D Hin t’aime ça hin, te faire mettre par ces attardés mentaux de ricains
R U kidding, people? How could there possibly be a “European Army” if there are no common interests and common foreign policy?…
God no and the Germans want nuclear weapons which they and the japanese are forbidden to have after the war , who is the enemy Russia trade with them instead .
only to remove kebab ;)
An army under who’s control? Brussels? No, thanks.
Brussels should be deleted from the map and EU should be disbanded altogether.
NATO works better than any EU army. It includes not only EU but many other states. It also works because it is primarily a peace keeping organization not an army. Is better each country to have their own armies but all armies to work together as a world police in peacekeeping rather than self-interest. Armies would be used in self interest.
But if you really wanna make an army they all better be Christian and march to Istanbul to retake Constantinopole.
No way it can’t work at all! ! It’s one thing to send some “task forces ” to a peace keeping mission and an other to mobilize a full scale army! !just imagine being attacked and having to wait for 30 parliaments to give the ok for the army to act!!!the units themselves will be like the tower of Babel imagine a German officer trying to give an order to Spanish or Greek soldiers during an artillery attack it’s the recipe for mutiny! Just see the “international brigades ” during the Spanish civil war- they totally failed! In some cases the soldiers attacked their own officers Because they didn’t trust them. …simple it can’t work it will be a catastrophe
Of course it should…
Why? Only five of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 28 member countries last year met the alliance goal of spending at least 2% of their gross domestic product on defense. Better increase spending to 2% of GDP
.
The stupidest of stupid idea’s.
Clearly some people have forgotten what happened the last time a bunch of crazed Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe were allowed to militarise.
Why? What happened?
Dionìs KC
Do you really not know ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KG74s4DnRw&list=PL84844758FCEF1A25
when was the last time half a billion of europeans voted a parliament to represent them all?? because sure as hell it didn’t happen in the third reich.
Ivan Burrows only seen the first two parts of the film and it says it clear that Nazis stoped the communists take hold of powerhouse of Europe then 1933 the powerhouse of the world
Had the communists prevailed over Nazis I’m sure u know it would have been a very different western world that we leave in today
Nobody is denying who the Nazis are but there was a very big good out of the evil
Lonzo Bildelberg
It never ceases to amaze me how little you EU fanatics actually know about your history.
The Nazi party gained 11 million votes in 1932 and the German people made Hitler chancellor, only 42% of EU Europeans voted for your parliament in 2014 with a 1/3 of those voting for anti EU MEPS. Hardly a resounding love for the EU.
How many votes did your president Juncker get ?, does that mean he more like Stalin than Hitler ?
The European Parliament does not make law as in a democracy, it merely the rubber stamping department of the unelected European Politburo.
The EU institutions have more in common with dictatorships than any democracy.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2016/01/83847/
Lonzo Bildelberg
Half a billion voted for the European Parliament ? lol, which incidentally they have never been asked if they wanted.
http://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2014/news/it-s-official-last-eu-election-had-lowest-ever-turnout/
Lefter Isuf Gjura
With just a little tweaking this could have been made in Brussels.
(Germans are not allowed to watch by law, I wonder why ?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHs2coAzLJ8
Lefter Isuf Gjura :
You consider the Brussels created migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis and the misery heaped onto millions of people across the EU to be ‘good’ ?
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=156
an army at the commands of thugs like Merkel or Junker? worst idea ever.
Never. Communism wihout power is funny and stupid. See at drunk Juncker and Shultz or stupid gender ideology and “equality” ideology. Communism with power is dangerous. Communism always has consequences as terror and millions of victims.
Yes, if it’s regulated on EU level. But it will be almost impossible to be efficient.
No yet ..
Only if the go out of NATO!!!
we have NATO, right? 4
NATO is not supporting EU’s interests but US’s interests!
wooooow. so germany in eu is one thing, in nato, another?
No, never. The EU is not a country.
It is time to cut military expenses for lack of external enemies.Only Turkey is threatening EUs FRONTIERS in Greece and has occupational force of 40.000 troops in EU s member Cyprus.There is need only for security police to control terrorism which is the only threat.
Ever heard of Rússia?
Ever heard a threat to EU FROM RUSSIA .OF COURSE NOT BUT YOU LIKE TO IMAGINE
Only Turkey is threatening borders and EU has no danger? That’s delusional. Turkey is the one who’s trying to keep Europe clear of mass immigration and border security from the middle east. And let me kindly remind you that it was Greek Cyrpiots who voted no for Annan plan.
Anan plan was a turkish inspired plan which left the possibility open for Turkey to first influence all Cyprus decisions in its own interests and then to overrun the whole island. Turkey is an imperialist state with visions of invading any territory within its reach and eventually the whole of Europe through Islamic expansion
Of course it was a big No to anan plan as our country will never be a state of turkey and that’s what anan plan was all about to turn Cyprus into a Turkish state. We are Europeans not Turks!! Turkey already invaded Cyprus with 40.000 troops remaining in Cyprus and it’s illegally occupying the northern part of Cyprus against all international laws and regulations!
Turkey is an imperialist state with invasion fantasy. So Greece is not? Implying slavic Macedonians are Hellens, and chasing Megali Idea. Sorry guys our govts. are equally worse. Greece was forcing monoculturism in Cyprus with violent ways and Turks seized their cultural relatives, that’s what happened. And Annan plan was something democratic. The otherwise of Annan plan is a whole Greek Cypriot ruled Cyprus which doesn’t sound so democratic to me. We can discuss this until morning so I’m going to stop and wish you kalinixta.
No Never !
Of course it’s time! EU army is long overdue as EU needs a strong army to voice its power in this messed up world
That’s just an attempt of Germany to influence a hypothetical European army directly, since Germany is not allowed to have an army greater than a certain number (WWII)
ABSOLUTELY, EU will never be complete until their own army!!!
spend the money for people life not in killing machines
funny you have the flag of cyprus as profile pic, i can’t think of a better place where EU forces would be able to improve the situation. Especially now that the UK is fucking off, who knows what happens to their presense on the Cyprus isle
Yes! And it’s long overdue
The EU would only use it to force Europeans to accept globalist ideology. Every corrupted empire in history recruited mercenaries to keep power. Unfortunately as each month goes by it feels more true. The EU is not representing Europeans but global business and global elite.
actually the EU has pushed legislation to protect workers, which is the very opposite of what global business likes
EU has abolished major work achivements in working conditions and wages and pensions in favor of big interests and corrupt elite
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
here’s the problem- the defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
As the eu itself is not and cannot become as yet a member of NATO it cannot benefit from this great deal. Any forces transferred as a result of some grand euro army creation from the NATO agreement of the eu states that are part of NATO risks losing or damaging this pact. That would be lunacy.
The current eu idea of common procurement and standard equipment policy across eu states is a much better idea – make it cheaper and more effective for the member states to be an effective part of NATO.
Besides which – who and how would this grand army be commanded? Do we want to give Juncker et al the keys to an army and possibly Frances nuclear deterrent?
PS. if NATO is the defence mechanism then that automatically includes the UK armed forces in the defence of europe
80 percent expenses to be borne by Germany rest all take the free ride.
About time too & #Malta should support it
You barely have EU!
Defenetly yes!
Actually the EU turned a blind eye to a million plus migrants the German government encouraged to come to Germany breaking all EU regulations in the process. The German government even cited a need for workers as a justification. Big business love cheap labour.
They also turned a blind eye to what some of those migrants did to the German women . They even turned a blind eye to the fact that some of them went and killed other Europeans in terrorist attacks. How can you have a cohesive EU when one woman decides to let in millions of people without any consultation with other members. . Then she demands other countries take them . She then does a deal , without any consultation, with Turkey to get her out of the mess and promises them free movement in the EU. All of this chaos because she wants to appear to be a saint before the next election. Can you imagine what she will do with an army at her command ?
Definitely yes. The current European Security and Defence Policy unit of the EU needs to be expanded and transformed into a all professional million personnel EU Defence Force
Yeah, we’ve already had one in Europe – during the WW 2….. With Merkel and Schultz humiliating and threatening Poland… Never again.
It’s more than time.
Yep. But it has to come along a comprehensive EU foreign policy.
Yes, Europe should have an INDEPENDENT, EUROPEAN military force all by itself, however, it should be wise and restrained enough to never use it for hegemonic purposes, like SOME OTHER BACKWARD primitive apes do. If Europe finally has its own army, it should only be used for defensive and peaceful purposes, never again for all those arrogant escapades on the continent and in the world as Europe is, alas, infamous for from history. Peace
In order to back your soft power you need hard power too. Unless bullies know that they’ll get hammered down they’ll always be bullies.
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The EU is the biggest bully of them all & you want to give them an army ? madness.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2016/01/83847/
What has the Dutch Ukraine -EU AA ref got anything to do with bullying or the EU army ? An advisory ref with a turnout of 32 % ? Gimme a break troll, though I must admit an answer from the infamous Ivan is quite the honour.
Next time u should be critical of the UK army and it’s existence, no longer is it the business of the English, or wherever else you come from, what the EU does.
NO! I don´t want my children fighting for the global elite! NO, NO, NO!!!! Plus, EU is going to fall like a sand castle…We have Brexit already, and if Le Pen wins, France will exit too…And this´s the begining…Bullshit to EU! They have been leading us to misery, poverty, etc…They have been playing the banks cartel game all the time long…NO!!!
each EU member has an army – all it needs is a new command structure and a job/control/transparency description agreed upon. Could result in great savings and possible less corruption on purchases.
Hell NO!
Just cut to zero military expenses and start spending those money for real problems
That’s utterly stupid.
Please, tell us why European states should spend money on military when we have NATO, which is already asking for much more money than it should. Are you threatened by any other country? Or have we problems with migration, employment, social security, demography and welfare state? Please, let me know if your priority is bombing some other state for the sake of doing it
The defence of europe depends on NATO. NATO is the bargain of the century- for a very low cost members get defence provided by and in cooperation with the worlds largest and most powerful military ever created.
If you think europe does not need defence then you have obviously not appreciated the continuous and continuing state of peace in europe and around the world generally has enjoyed derived directly from NATO.
What NATO is asking is very reasonable – it’s asking for states to help in their own defence – and in return NATO guarantees to defend such nations with the might of all the member nations- one of which as mentioned is the most powerful on earth.
State of peace […] derived directly from NATO? What are you talking about? Syria? Or Libya? Afghanistan and it’s weapon of mass destruction? Please
Go in Ukraine or Crimea and ask people from there if they want cuts in the military. So long you have neighbours who want to rebuild empires (Putin,Erdogan) and unstable countries as in north Africa you cannot afford the luxury of not having an army. For example Italy exists because it has an army to defend its teritory
Anastasia QkaGeorge DimopoulosEleni Panagakou idU i APorIa
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
.
Change the word Germany for EU in this extract and you have your answer.
‘Unite all Germans into one nation re-arm Germany’
Mein Kampf – 1925
Time to come into the 21st century, my troll friend.
You’ve been in the 1940s cave for several years now. It’s ok.
Yes, It could be one of the most insurance against wars. Of course it should be set also a real European foreign minister.
.
What happens when fanatics with one flag & a plan to unite Europe achieve their goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy1kOwUyEsM
Unfortunately the actual solution for having a foreign policy commissioner doesn’t work. I think that is better to have a council of foreign ministers, which to apoint a representative.
YES SIM
No.
You keep asking and I keep saying no! It cant even manage a currency responsibly so why trust it with an army? Ireland had an army controlled remotely for 800 years by people with no cultural appreciation or knowledge of the country. Do you think we re going to sign up for another? The Germans knew nothing despite besserwisserei about the financial crisis in Ireland and didnt want to know. Ireland will never accept the jackboots of a foreign army again.
Totally. I think even Eurosceptics should agree on that. Denying cooperation in other areas has its arguments, but not when it comes to common EU defence policy
Defence from whom? Germany or USA the biggest enemies of real EU?
Russia and Turkey.
Without a complete and effective defence system EU will be open to the threats of every tyrant in the area such as Erdogan. Being intimidated by such tyrants EU loses its credibility and as a result earns the contempt of its members who will seek security within their national borders after exiting the EU. Lack of EU defence will signal its downfall
This whole debate on ‘defense’ is sickening. I say: the less we spend, the better we will be in the longer term. I think Einstein had a great quote on that: “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
NATO Whit out US.
NATO Whit Rasien.
No, it would benefit no one and who would die for the union… This is a pathetic topic
Well we all know Germany will control the EU army/4th Reich.
It’s long due.
According to Nick Cleg that’s dangerous scaremongering, so coming from the most pro EU political figure in U.K. Politics I would have to agree…
We share the same territory, we have the same threats and we suppose to have the same security goals,hence the European army is a necessity. In case of war we must be united, so none restrains from the effort because the war is to at its border. NATO it is a partial solution because it doesn’t pay for the armies from the Eastern Europe who are poorer, but more exposed at external aggression. For example Netherlands spend 10 billion $ in military expenditures while Latvia who has a flat field between them and Russia, spend 250 millions. If Russia attacks Latvia,Netherland has to intervene because it is in NATO, but its investment in military was not done for Latvia, and it could be of little help (due to distance, technology etc), and Netherland will lose more men in the war. A better defended Latvia will discourage a Russian intervention and Netherland will not fight in the war. Now too much is invested where is not need (Western Europe) it and little is invested where is need it (Eastern Europe)
Just answer one question please. Who will lead that army then. Army helps nothing without capable and clear leadership.
Hell Not at all.
Debating Europe who is your master.
Yes.
its time to put forever in jail al corrupted politicians of EU states
Anything to unite us will be good.
No way. Never with Germany.
What would you feel like if I said “Never with poor Portugal”? What is this? ENOUGH with this last century non-sense. This is 2000! No nationalism is welcome, nationalism is old, stinky and toxic. EU means European UNION, not Division. Germany is nothing more and nothing less than all the other nations of Europe and Member States of the Union. Always with Germany! And always with the other 26 Member States, yours comprehended! And also always with all the other European States which will join our huge, unprecendented project of unity, peace and prosperity.
Yes, it is high time for such an army!
Yes to an EU army, it will be another step to unite our citizens and our intensions. Yes to an EU army also part of NATO. Why do the USA or Canada have a united army while for us there are 27 different, money-sucking, semi-authonomous, not well organised bodies? Do we talk about South Carolina army, Nebraska army, California Republic army, Saskatchewan? Not even thinkable, right? So why are we still back to decades ago, with a Slovenian army, a Swedish army, a Spanish army?Let’s face reality, it would be a disaster to control all this mess if a real threat came to our door. We must stand together to be strong and free, as our allies are and have been for a long time now. STOP INDIVIDUALISM OF NATIONS INSIDE EU, we need a country, this is not 1900.
We do not need one big country at all.
Excuse me maybe i’m wrong, but aren’t you from Leeds, in England, in United Kingdom, soon-to-be out of EU? If that is the case, why do you use WE and why should your opinion count?
Anyway, this is a dialogue and i am open to everyone’s opinion, wether you’re in or out of the Union, IF it is built on something. So, maybe you want to give a reason to your comment to why the European Union shouldn’t be a whatever federation, confederation, association kind of united country?
I will tell you a reason. British army is the best in the world FACT. Look at the standards of military in EU member states, there shiiiit the standard will drop and look at the Danish army if it rains they go home the dutch the Austrians. conscript’s and like the funding the UK gives to pay for people in other countries we would be paying for these fuckers. Happy we are leaving the corrupt united states of Europe. Europe is lost it will be the united states of islam soon, your all blinkered and cant see whats right in front of you. A war is commng and all in the name of islam
??♂️
🤦🏼♂️
I don’t know, maybe because when e.g. Greece spent for its army the NATO 2% contribution, we got molested by the rest of EU for that?
Unless, you realized when it really matters Europe is divided….
No, NATO is already enough.
Yes, it is
Why?
I really do not belive in this kind of vision.
Yes , hurry,because ,for now,only have, europeans jihadists paramilitary units, this is a big threat for security.
SI ,YES,, It is the Time……
Si. Es necesario y urgente disponer de un ejército Europeo.
Please no
EFAF=European Federal Armed Forces
Would have been nice but the union is not as United as it should for that
Ειναι καιρος να διαλυθη αυτη η ενωση που διοικουν υποκριτες που καμια σχεση εχουν με δημοκρατια ισονομια ισοπολιτεια
Where are our enemies? Between Greece and the Black Sea, thats the strecht to protect. And don’t tickle Russia because now we have a common enemy.
First fix where Europe’s own citizens come from. Who is going to take a stand against the huge rise in illegal migration with either fake passports or with duplicate (ID Fraud) passports that are readily available from Hungary, Poland and Bulgaria. The problem in Britain is that we don’t know where most people from the EU are actually from as there are just so many fake and duplicate ID and passports for these people. The British system works on the assumption that if the documents are legal then so is the person, problem is for the last 4 years most illegal workers are getting real documents by using the details of real people with and/or without permission of the real person. So really checking documents without checking to see if the person is actually resident in more than one country is a waste of time, but in an age where we are looking for cheap answers we will never stop the avalanche of undocumented people working and living, getting finance and creating havoc with assumed identities. If in doubt then go to Ukraine in the Oblasts of Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk and in the villages and towns as see where more then 70% of the citizens have acquired duplicate ID’s to work in Europe, and forget the police and Frontex – they just couldn’t be bothered.
Yes, a new Europe, a new EU Government and Parliament, lobbies out, corruption out, same taxes, same rights, one common army, no more secret commisions.
Absolutely not!
Absolutely not! 1) IT army is voluntary. 2) who would fight for another country? 3) who decide to fight who and how many soldiers involve in a conflict? Germany – France- Italy? EU IS NOT UNITED AND WON’T BE NEVER UNITED.
Yes!!
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
No, not until we reform the democratic institutions of the EU so the European people can truely hold the EU to account. If we are to become a Federal Union – we need to do this with strong democratic EU legitimacy. Not the current model of federation by stealth.
it’s time for peace.
eu army ??? here frontex cannot ceep the boards safe from islam cause they work 8 hrs only ….. imagine to have army ….hahahaha
Εvery EU country has an army although only Greece and Cyprus have external threats from Turkey a member of NATO and candidate member of EU!!!!!.So a joint force from existing armies for use against EUs threats is possible.This move will eliminate member countries armies to minimum number for use in internal emergency situations.Overall number of armed forces on EU wil be significantly cut and preformance improved very much.
No. EU is getting tyrannical and this could be a danger to its people. Leadership of the EU has a lot to answer for. They have enabled terrorism and crime to blossom and endangered their own people. They need to be in jail. Then we could talk about army.
Bot alert!
Ιt is, but member countries have conflicting goals and security issues that are indifferent to some members
Yes, it’s time for EU army and make serious steps towards European Federation or United States of Europe.
No. Europe is not North America. A united states here cannot work. The cultural differences on pretty much all levels are so large it would just be awkward. Europe will never be a country, deal with it.
At a time where so many people feel disenfranchised, ignored an steamrolled by out of touch beurocrats in Brussels, further stripping away national sovereignty and further integration into a synthetic state is not the right way to go.
Victor Kristiansson We’ll see. Anyway, I’m one of the many who will step forward for a a stronger and more United Europe, even USE.
Stop lingering on the 20th century, Victor Kristiansson! We’ve built a union because we came to the conclusion that we have more in common than what sets us apart! Of course we’ll never be a country, Europe has a lot of regional idiosyncracies, but I believe that is what makes us stronger!
Not that for the time being, but discussion could go on. In general, I am pro military forces, being global rather regional, like NATO, UN peace keepers to avoid the bias. To improve the same, and devote EU budged money for the social pillar. Against additional militarisation, it can just provoke the conflicts. It costs, but the experience of the last decades shows the applications mainly for peace keeping purposes.
Some countries would want to settle old scores with foes (Greece – Turkey relations come often close to confrontation). Why should a Dutchman have to fight a war which is not a collective issue concerning strictly two old foes?
So what you suggest is that if we don’t have an EU army Greece will go to war with Turkey? First of all it makes no sense, second of all both are NATO members and whoever is the attacked one will be supported by NATO, and last but not least: Greece is in the Eurozone and Eurozone countries will do everything to make the currency as stable as possible so they will support Greece.
So this becomes a collective issue anyway
While I can understand this solidarity argument about the eurozone (costing just money), I cannot even imagine having to deal with divisive situations such as a military confrontation between Greece and Turkey (which has been averted mainly by [and thanks to] ol’ Uncle Sam’s intervening). It just ain’t as simple as it seems. There ‘s a lot of things at stake, more than a dislike for Erdogan. There are interests involved, huge arms deals, Russia is just around the corner. Countries will be divided. All the time there will be exclusion prerogatives put forward by countries not comfortable with (or interested in) such and such a confrontation. To replace NATO with an alternative organisation will be risky and it will cause trouble rather than solve problems. As I said, with America out of the way, countries might be tempted to use the new organisation to their advantage in terms of security
You make me laugh, main problem of NATO is underfunding cause only 5 nations pay what it is agreed (Germany pay only 60% what it should) but we will create another army to fix that problem (maybe we can set the level of payments it of the half of nato agreement ) that way for the new army it will seems that everything is ok)
Maybe its time for no armies at all
We are on the right track with the integration of Romanian brigade in Bundeswehr. We need an Rapid Response Task force. Now.
Leaded by what country?
An army that is European will bring young people together from across Europe with a common goal and instill in them a sense of being European that doesn’t exist today. It is consequently critical to a European future that there be an European army.
A common goal to kill savage Russians. How nice. Sign me up!
There is no European identity this won’t save Europe. How about working on promoting some more direct forms of governance participation this would also bring people together in a common purpose.
Exactly!!
Joerg Sp – Your common goal, not mine. No need to be a warmonger. The goals of the army are to be determined by the European Parliament. And just because you say something doesn’t make it true: that’s the way of Trump and his type. There is without question an European identity; it is very young, and may never reach adulthood, but it exists.
Maybe a peace keeping small army could be useful
But never against other people..never Afghanistan , Africa etc.. only self defence..
That’s what they said, when they allowed German army. Now they are defending our freedoms all over the world. I feel incredibly secure now.
well said,
is time to get out from this eu cause is germans europe ?? thats the right question !!!!!!
Fuck that shit
No. Most of EU members are Nato members and this is more than enough. Keeping in mind EU leadership and it’s policy, Europe is more safe under NATO wing led by the USA.
Only moroons and retards have ‘army’. Peoples with no brain, gangsters have army. Army is good just for distruction, entire country distruction, like we know yet …
Depends on which place on Earth your country is. For example we are always threatened by Turkey and the EU won’t support us on diplomatic level because the weaponry we buy are French and German. So I think it is a little bit more complicated than that.
Mathieu, qui a osé te piquer LE projet de ta vie ??? ;)
Je leur ai donné l’idée ;)
Ah je savais qu’il y avait une inspiration “Mathieu Carpentier” dans cette histoire ;)
ΝΟ ΕΕ does not need to fight for German interests nor for the NWO.
Yes. The task of such a common army to be clearly defined as not for foreign assignments with options for catastrophe relief. Would save each EU member lots of money in Admin and acquisition of material. Who are National armies within the EU defending against? Who are the enemies? Qui bono?
That’s nice as an idea. The point is, who will command such army? The diplomatic agenda is different for each country and maybe this kind of army, might not be as efficient in protecting the peripheral eu countries meaning their personal rights and land against adversaries. And yes, I’m talking about the approach Germany has chosen ,supporting with her absence, Turkey’s offensive strategy and the occupation of Cyprus
We need less militarism and confrontation in this world and not more, we need to dismantle the NATO and forget about any kind of further aggressive posturing. The environmental threat is the most important one. Also social stratification and increasing divides across and between countries poison our European society. This should be our priorities not some kind of false security through fostering a second cold war.
With such an irresponsible EU-leadership? No way, never.
Europe doesn’t need another major financial parasite. What it need is less hoplophobia. Unfortunately, it’s the other way they are pretty eager to do the things.
Yes! Russa and The Usa are going crazy.
Who is going to attack Europe? Or is it already happening? Do not you see alien aggressive people in your streets? You do not need an army but intellect and firmness. Otherwise, your country with its culture will disappear and you even will not notice it.
Tell that to our Turkish friends who invade every second day our national borders
Petros Papadimas I would not rely on Germans on the threat of Turkey or Russia. I would rather be afraid of the German army. The Islamization of Germany and France deepens.
Armies aren’t good? I wonder what are you going to do if one day ISIS will knock your door! If stupidity could be painfull
Armies aren’t good? I wonder what are you going to do if one day ISIS will knock your door! If stupidity could be painfull
For self-defence only!
Before ii is necessary writing and accepting a Federal European Constitution. Actual EU is not a good solution, too different national condition
Do you need an army to subdue Eastern Europe?
Yes……It’s time for a Giant European Army also with Federal nuclear power ..We must defend our People….
Yes, bomb everything
Only after the clear definition of shared values and goals among all the Nations in the EU. Only after the election of a federal government and a federal President directly voted by all the citizens of the Union.
Let let Russia join EU.?
Fuck off we will never be part of your fucking eu army run by bunch corrupt cunts and vile repugnant eussr run fuhrer Merkel
No ! Because has NATO and that’s a defense alliance for EU and friends..
We need secured borders and European Army ASAP
A united Europe can work efficiently with National Armys, a disentegrated Europe will need a Euroarmy to enforce unpopular political agenda .. what is the right thing to do?
An EU Army would be a good thing!
a good thing to attack countries sovereignity if they refuse to play along with brussells or germany or france stupid/anti-democratic policies?
A good way to build a stronger European identity. An Army is not an attack on other countries, but a defensive option. France and Germany have strong national armies anyway, and Brussels is not a bogey man! However, this thread should be about how best to proceed in creating a viable and feasible EU Army, not about critics against “stupid/anti-democratic policies”.
If we think who protects EU today, then it is not really the national armies. We heavily depend on NATO, which though we should continue participating (as EU, not as individual countries), we should be able to defend EU without any real external dependence, as today, from NATO,
Yet special concerns should rule the externals borders of EU and this army will never replace local armies. Even though to proceed with a common army we should first have solved the more substantial questions of what kind of Union we want/need and for what purpose: it is highly time (even passed time) to move forward to a real Federation of people (not states!).
The Hague Invasion Act was written, by AmeriKKKans, as a threat to European countries and members of the International court to protect their mass murders and war criminals from justice. It would make sense to have an European Army, but with the enemy already sleeping inside of Europe in their military bases and torture chambers spread in the continent, what good will it do, if we still play the role of vassals with a Trojan horse?
never under German
Never
You’re crazy… Never.
It’s time to dismantle EU instead :)
More armies? Better ambassadors, even better EU psychologists specialized in Violence
I am afraid Brussel would use it to punish disobediant countries.
Why… So the rich can get richer and the poor dead??? Read this very carefully bitch. FUCK YOU!!!
Send the motherfuckers back from where they came from and get a fuck out of their land. Like it used to. But I guess is too late now, is it!!!
Nope…
EU are in the hands of the USA, and before EU can deal its own problems, commun defense forces are out of the question…
No !!!! Never !!!! The EU no longer serves a purpose !
Y E S
never in a million years…..and more i would like to know why Germany is allowed to have an army again??????
Why not? I dont think germans want to conquer europe again.
No, they’ve done that already Sergi Llussà Baudilio – too bad you haven’t noticed…
We have fought the german dogs for a century and now we have give them the continent on a silver plate.
GERMANY is already incorporing foreign regiment in it’s army.
Better with the Russians than with the germans.
Ναι
YES…..***may be is too late …..
Military power is strongly connected with Diplomacy. We don’t have a common diplomacy yet SO, we wan create a European DEFENSIVE army and let countries have their own small armies that they can use freely. for foreign issues.
Defintely YES !! Till now only UK was opposing, but now we can do it
Europe do not need an army but an strong police, information /spyonage agency. Our enemies are inside.
Of course. It is almost to late for the EU to grow up.
If we become part of an EU army… who will be in control of our CASD?
…of course not ….we dont need army to destroy …other countries ..and then to create terrorists…dont forget who destroyed so many countries…especially Syria stop bombing innocent people…infants …no european army…
How about solving the Eurocrisis first? Ohhh , there are Euros for a European army you say? So Greece spending 2% of its budget as per NATO instructions was not so bad???? Well, then, if Greece leads that army….We have paid for it after all
no need yet, we (still) have NATO
that sounds like a self-revealingly stupid answer
Sì
Yes, si, oui… Along with all the necessary security apparatus, such as a CIA like organization, it is extremely necessary to have proper intel services.
no, never!!!!!!!!!!!
first put al corrupted politicians in Jail forever
what does that have to do with defending EU borders?
So Merkel will finance that one like she did NATO?
So Merkel will finance that one like she did NATO?
So Merkel will finance that one like she did NATO?
Your poll is complicated to the point of being silly … So, there.
Not until there is a unified political command/executive. Otherwise, it is unrealistic.
With Trump, Brexit and Putin, the EU countries get more vulnerable. Who knows what will happen! Brexit breaks the balance of forces in Europe. I believe the EU has to be prepared to defend the EU countries.
Yes! A united EU army, with free enrolment from all countries. It could be phased-in across a couple of decades while national armies are phased-out. With UK’s departure, English becomes a perfectly fitting neutral lingua franca for command. This would make Euorope more independent from NATO and enable a better resources allocation
There is no need of army! Especially not a common European one!
Yes but outside NATO’s ombrella! Rather, firstly we should get rid of NATO and then create a European army!
There is no EU army when there is no EU integration
Absolutely! An army needs political legitimation.
NATO = CRIMINELS
end nato now. our enemy numero 1 is the usa occupation of europe.
And whom is it supposed to deter? :) The true enemy of Europe is within.
You are so right! We need to sort the far right before they get out of hand.
It wasn’t the far right rampaging in Hamburg recently,burning cars and shops,was it :)
I’m scared of both…
António Espadaneira The liberal leftists are explicitly more radicalized :)
Michail Panchev i agree with you. They are of little help to hide rightwing extremism thou. Both sides are preaty crazy if you ask me.
Yes but not within NATO’s umbrella! The EU should quit from NATO and get back its independence!
EU and NATO are seperate entities. not all EU countries are in NATO. and not all NATO countries are in EU.
Ēriks Gasiņš: so what?!? This doesn’t change to situation. It is self-evident that the European countries are not free to decide their foreign policy and this is clearly link to NATO and the American presence in Europe. Who else has so many military basis in Europe, despite not being part of this continent?
Marco Bianchi
Of course European countries are free to decide their foreign policy, they won’t be if Brussels takes over.
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be made here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
You don’t understand. If Europe units at a political level and we finally create a European government elected by the citizens, Europe will become a real State and it will have its own foreign policy.
It will be something like the United States. The single state of the Union are not free to decide their foreign policy and I don’t see people complaining about it. I don’t see why the same can’t be done here in Europe!
However this plan will only make sense if we are truely independent something is not real today.
I have my own state, I don’t any EU state nor I want EU to decide for my state. The EU has done a very poor job up intil now. Time to leave it.
José Bessa da Silva: the poor outcome is precisely caused by the fact that there is not a real government. Each state things just about itself and this is what is killing the EU!
Yes! 27 ineffective and costly defense forces can’t be justified
Yes, but under the auspices of Parliament.
You just know that if the EU had an Army they would be using it to force migrants in to Hungry rather then stopping migrants from crossing the sea.
Yes exactly. Every soldier would adopt one refugee and he would live side by side with him. Or how u imagine they would do it?
Like the Germans did it in WW II force, invasion it’s simple don’t you think só??
Stephen J Gorog The Germans didn’t start WW2 because it was the Nazi’s who did that and many German’s were murdered by the Nazi’s
yes… against islam invasion
there is no independence just interdependence.
It’s time to create a peace keeping and security assurance force in Europe.
Joint missions envolving different member states yes, but a not a common army. It’s too soon for that.
Independant EU army only! Not dominatet by the USA!
YEEES!!!
And European Border Guards.
Europa debe tener su propio ejército, sino será un paria entre las Naciones, y su papel no es ese ni tampoco Europa ha llegado hasta aquí para ser una paria. Además tiene mucho que defender.
No unicamente su proprio ejercito pero tambien sus proprios administrationes incluido una constitution de base .
Sin esos bases fundamentales yo me pregunto hasta donde Europa va ha llegar .
What are we waiting for?
(1) The EU army could be used by arrogant EU officials against member states of the union. (2) In addition, EU army would disrupt the current balance of military power in the world, which would be unacceptable for current powers and would bring various consequences.
Yes. There is no doubt in my mind that we need to ensure that we have the capacity to protect what we have built.
I’m pro Europe but an EU army? Get stuffed!
Are you British?
Yeah
I’ve heard this question asked time and time again, but very little on what this proposed army would entail. Is it just a fancy way of saying increased co-operation between nation states’ militaries or an amalgamation of all the said armed forces into one single bloc? And if the latter, how is it to be managed? How will the various language barriers be overcome? I really need more information on the proposal before I can truthfully answer yes or no to this question.
Well what does an army do? How about english? Many armed forces already use it because dadumm Nato..
All these questions dont realy matter because they are just to be filled in. What does matter is that we need an EU army.
I’m fully aware of what an army does. I would simply like more information on the proposal.
Nathan Cornfield then you agree that we need an army but are unsure of how to fill it in.
Yes, if it is to be done, it should be done right.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time it is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on it’s own legs with it’s head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels.
United We Are Stronger
No!
Definitely! Long due for such a powerful Union not to have a really strong army
https://youtu.be/3LfrRx5Ct-U
Yes but in no way used by EU leaders against member states!!
Ahah poor child, are you born yesterday?
The last eu army was called Wehrmacht.
Ignorance, what a bless!
Hmm, “ignorance “?? Fast assumption , even though you may be right!!! Child???? Long time ago!!!! Always trying to be pozitiv but I fő understand
“wars dont make one come great”
We already had one, was called WEHRMACHT.
It didn’t turn out very well for democracy.
Federation of free states. Never an union.
A federation of free states is literally a union :-D
Sorry confederation. Beside that. There are several layers of central government interference.
I don’t think europe is ready for a union so thight. Even if eu officials are pushing in that direction.
Maybe in fifty years, assuming that a pro eu generation will rise and eu iwon’t alienate itself from all the south of the continent.
Beside that, may the europe have a short life.
.
What would Brussels do with the neutral Nations, ‘force’ them to take part ?
Germany in charge of the military capacity of 27 countries is a recipe for disaster.
Just answer one question : who will decide what this army does? Who gives the leadership?
.
It will have an EU flag slapped on it but it will be owned by & run for Berlin.
UK won’t get a say on the matter now, so will have to sit on the sidelines and accept whatever the EU does. However can’t see countries like Ireland agreeing to this, so can’t see it happening
No. It is time for Germany Limited Liability Company to stop pretending to be a nation with a Constitution, for Merkel and hohorts to stop robbing nations and stealing their sovereignty… and stop excessive spending of the EE that is intent on enslaving the people.
The Lisbon Treaty already gave us an EU army, (I dont think this was a good idea either) but the real question is whether to dismantle NATO.
No. It wouldn’t get past Ireland and Austria, even if it worked for Sweden and Finland. Until the issue of strictly neutral countries is resolved, this issue cannot be touched.
yes and without the UK
Good luck with that.
YES!
European Union needs to grow up and at this point of time is the best possible time to do it. EU needs to stand on its own legs with its head up high.
We need to come closer on all levels due to United we are Stronger.
Yes, should have already had one
No, and I really wish that people who want deeper EU integration realise how counterproductive the very term ‘EU army’ is. The EU will always have its proud nation states whether people like it or not and what the EU needs is a closer military alliance built on top of the existing EU structures that allows flexible opt outs for those countries that wish to retain their neutrality. An EU army will be commanded by whome, Junker? Let’s not be ridiculous and let us work on what already exists. That is how the EU will survive into the future.
No, it is time for Departugal.
Since 1954.
Yes for Save Money and 2019 you Must Vote Euroepan Federalist PArties
Is time to rethink europe and break With that ones that use eu for their dar agendas
Dstk
Dark*
No!!! No!!!!! Thank you but nooooo!
Yes. Long overdue
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
Euroshit
I prefer NATO to a more Russian friendly EU Army led by Germany.
I am of the opinion that we need a strong EU army because we have plenty of enemies. To the East from different religious parties and from the West the wicked capitalism!
Your enemies are not my enemies. The EU is profoundly corrupt. I’m not willing to give power to the mafia installed in Brussels nor to befoe friends thanks to foreign problem. My country’s only enemy to the east is spain.
I am speaking for all Europe not specifically for my country (for instance Greece)… If we want to have a unique and completely union then the enemies are same for all of us… Yes, your enemy is Spain but both of you are in Europe… You have more to earn than to divide…
I just love the baseless accusations of the EU being “profoundly corrupt”. Any EU Member State on its own is far more corrupt than the EU which has very rigid transparency protocols in place.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Yes. And everybody out of NATO.
There are so many subjects to deal over time but security and defence is always a must in a more wilder world with wars and enemies.
Army for collapsing EU ?
under German power? not thanks. NEVER
Take care of your falling apart country instead…
Yes!!
And FREE north part of Cyprus right away as the island is European Soil but north part is under occupation by Turkish troops.
no way
Yes, because the EU is econimic giant, but dwarf in military security. Europe must defence itself against foreign enemies and be a big political player in the world.
no fekin way
To fight who?
No (:-( kidding?) * NO
Nope
Yes.We already discussed the EU Army subject.
Yes and dump NATO.
If you ‘are trying to convince anyone,
you ‘ll be disappointed , and the military is very expensive , disband the NATO out from an EU ‘s army, would be better and, we should also remember that, not everybodys’ citizens, friends as well as enemies, desire an American policeman around.
The EU army must be neural from the NATO, if yes, I ‘ll agree the same too , otherwise I’ll rescind.
I concur. Hopefully the EU army will then invade Russia & turn its territory into an EU colony.
YES !!!!
it should not be because of Brexit it should have happened right in the beginning and should be enlarged as the EU grows. The Brussel Politions will not defend the people they will hide behind the people.
Same question once again? What’s the purpose?
of course we should have an EU army. Even an European army including other European countries who want to participate. A new sort of NATO alliance of purely European countries.
E. U is an entity. And like all entities, witht the good or bad things, it needs security and to protect itself.
Yes we need an army.
Right away actually.
Of course. Less dependance on NATO and US and to get defense spending more efficient.
May I ask against who??? Someone please answer me this question!!!
Putin, Erdogan, terrorists, just to name a few. Also, we would stop relying on the U.S. for our defense. Is it fair that only 5 out of the 29 members pay their due while the rest enjoy the benefits of the alliance without actual contribution. These are the U.S. and the states bordering Russia. When is Europe gonna understand that yesterday it was Georgia, today it’s Ukraine, therefore tomorrow it could be central Europe!
Already the enemy is at the gate of EU… And a lot of them are in!
yes, there should be an EU army. Against who? Every country has an army so EU has to have one if we are to see some kind of confederation in the near future.
If this EU army can defend us from Great Britain and AmeriKKKa and it also has a banking system to maintaing stability in Europe without sacrificing the lives and sovereignty of Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Greece and other small, less important countries, the way NATO is doing to satisfy AmeriKKKa, this could be an improvement.
To answer correctly you need to have a real European approach and not just wanting Europe for the benefits only. You see the borders of Europe are not threatened by … Russia only.
Europeans are today concerned for Krimea and Ukraine … a non EU member BUT keep a blind eye on the occupation of EUROPEAN territory … there in CYPRUS!
EU Army with Polish and Hungarian soldiers, reallyß
An army controlled by the bEUraucrats? No thanks
haha, what is your name <
I’m an American and I think it’s a great idea for the EU to have an army because I think the EU should not depend on the US army due to the instability of our political system. The US political system seems to be going way off track in recent years. Basically we only have two parties and one of the two parties(the Republican party) has become extreme and very disruptive.
Considering the Eu’s current political leanings and involvements, I strongly disagree. Think about their permanent illegal buildings in Israel, and the UN peace corps raling children in Africa, whom they are supposed to protect.
Those are terrible incidents but the US totally funds and supports Israel’s military in suppressing the Palestinians and the Israeli human rights violations. The EU needs some protection against the aggression of the Russian army. Look at the Crimean takeover and military aggression in Ukraine. Trump is opposed to Western Europe and supports the authoritarian dictatorships of Russia and Turkey, as well as, the rolling back of democratic laws in Poland and other East European countries. There’s a rise of populism, fascism, nationalism, etc. in the world today that is very scary. The Western European legacy of democracy, human rights, rule of law, and freedom needs to be preserved in the face of growing authoritarian dictatorships like Putin Erdogan, and Trump.
The EU bureaucrats have wanted their own army since the Lisbon Treaty 2009. The militarisation of europe was written all over that wretched treaty. They’ll use any excuse to get their army and if Russia fits their purpose, they’ll use it. This is all about the slow and steady dismantling of sovereign nation states and the creation of a superstate. No thanks to either proposition. #NoSuperState #NoEUArmy
No way.
It should have been created since the first idea came to light.
Why not, we must have our defense and we leave NATO which is not our defense, so we must form the Western European Union ,and after the European political union,but we must finish the European Economy conclusion
Absolutely it’s time!
Даже е късно
YES IT IS !!
…And the pic is of a 50 year old woman, because an army’s primary function is to represent a society’s inclusiveness to all. Oh, and if we get into any real trouble, the US will step in and save us anyway. So French.
An army to protect and defend what, and to protect from what?
Yes, but only if the EU reforms to an accountable people’s democracy first and only then! Europeans have a tragic history of giving too much power to particular individuals who then use it for their own imperial ambitions leading to crippling wars and the destruction of our land and peoples. Prevention is better than cure!
Yes, yesterday was late.
It should have been formed from the beginning of the EEC about 30 years ago. Instead you have left borders like the Hellenic sea to be a passage for refugees and terrorists into Europe. Let’s see now how you handle the Turkish slave drivers and the mad Turkish president
Weeks ago I would say yes! Now absolutely no. After france nationalized stx jest to prevent Italian ownership. So AGAINST- EU. I don’t want an army
Definetly yes.
There are most urgent issues than creating an EU army. For instance, we should find out properly what the Europeans think about themselves, about their values and citizenship goals and, only then, start launching policies according to the results. I can understand why Juncker thinks this is kind of an assurance that war between us will never happen again but…I’m afraid they want to do it quickly. It requires a lot of coordination and decision making. Therefore, I’d say that it could work and it seems a nice idea…but maybe it’s not the right moment. And overall, I prefer Europe to lead the world’s peace movement.
Why you keep asking the same stupid question? No it can’t work
It’s time for EU to have its own voice, labor union, currency, harmonized employment laws, minimum social welfare criteria and authority over its member states to avoid being tricked by gimmicks.
I don’t want to join the army but before approving an EU army how much does it cost and how many lives will be shed?
No way! #NoSuperstate #NoEUArmy
Screw it.
Heaven forfend – they could not even organise a piss up in a brewery!!
Europe is andoubtly a christian continent. Traditions, state functions and procedures, culture and many other facets of public life in most European countries, are based on Christianity.However, recenly, the inflow of refugees and immigrants and also the cultural shift in EU has icreased the persentage of the population that belongs to other religions (or they are atheists)but also the tolerance towards the beliefs and traditions of such polpulation.I m not sure that we still can talk about a “Christian Europe”. Multicultural, yes. Multi-religious”, yes. It is a continent that is changing, a continent that includes and welcomes “the different”. But, what will be the final result and what will be the dominant religious group in the future? We do not know yet. And, we should not abolish our Christian traditions so easily. However, we have to live in peace with other religious groups and give every European citizen the freedom to hold his/her own beliefs without being mistreated or discriminated in the name of religion or other “characteristic”.
Yes like the war in the former Yugoslavia when the EU just sat on its hands whilst genocide took place , wholesale rape of children and women , shooting of men and boys . They did NOTHING . The EU has no backbone and will only ever use an army to fight anyone who dares to stand up to the Eurocrats and Germany. This is just one step nearer to an EU superstate
Trump has weakened Nato, the UK has weakened Europe, a common Defence Force is looking inevitable.
And much more cheaper… (normally)
You do know we are leaving the pointless EU and not Europe don’t you ?
You do know we are leaving all of the EU’s institutions under May?
Nato need to become Great, if a rocket fell on you don’t worry you will become a great dead, Greatness is the issue, the rest not important
Europe is threatened with the invasion of simple uncivilized people, not alien armies. The second threat to the EU is its officials with a modest intellectual potential
That’s the point!!! If we got a high intellectual potential, we don’t go to army!!! We go expand that potential, creating an building things…
Yes.Not only that.European Coast Guard too.
Coast Guard coupe be a Good idea but maybe first Italians and Greeks should try to use their own to stop illigall migrants?
Maciek Zbżerzny if we greeks use our navy to stop illegal imigration and for exampel we would send 50 boats to our borders to watch for illigal imigrants … the next day turkey will have more than 100 boats at their site calling this action of greece a “war threat”.This what you say is not possible.Only an EU coast guard can do this with no threats from turkey.This are EU borders…i can not understand why we greeks have to buy weapons to defend EU borders and other countries who dont have botders with non EU countries dont help us out with this situation.And of course we have to buy weapons from our eu friends every year.The greek army uses about 30% of our GDP.
A EU Defense Force is long overdue to defend and protect the European Union from external threats like the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union designed by Turkey to undermine and destroy the European Union beginning with the European Institution of Schengen A EU Defense Force would also put a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation of EU member Cyprus since 1974 , which is a British- Turkish alliance against the Americans in Cyprus since 1950 designed to keep the Americans out of Cyprus.
You’re welcome to pay for it yourself. I will not be forced to pay for foreign militarists.
.
Go for it, we are ready. The result will be the same as every other time a crazed bunch of Europeans with a flag & a plan to unite Europe create an army. :)
https://www.facebook.com/skynews/videos/1906680669346521/
In a continent of conflicting interests with a wide variaty of strategic thinking, I ask: who will this army defend us against? We ‘ve got to agree on certain fundamental principles, and -most important- decide who our enemy is. Till then, it’s a waste of money
Brussels would use its army to keep the Nations within the EU in line, would they use it to make you comply with their dictates ? of course they would.
Some EU countries consider enemies countries which are allied to the West via NATO. Some other countries have long standing issues with historical archrivals (Romania-Hungary, or Slovakia-Hungary, or Greece-Turkey). In case of a crisis within Europe, will the EU army remain unbiased at the sidelines? What if one of the two parties requests help? Will the EU army intervene on behalf let’s say of Greece against Turkey? Does an Estonian or a Luxembourger even care about that?
Wouldnt a European Military Ministry/Force lessen the chances of conflict happening inside the EU? It would be another oportunity for integration, this time for soldiers/marines/pilots of different countries, and what the EU needs the most is integration, people putting aside nationalism for European pride
Portugal’s oldest enemy is spain. Why exactly would we have a common army with them?
Ó José Bessa da Silva , chiça!… Vais buscar com cada uma!
Acaso não tem uma guerra diplomática pendente por conta da ZEE das Selvagens? Acaso não há Olivença? Acaso não existe Almaraz? Ou devemos perdoar o incumprimento do Tratado de Albufeira por parte de espanha? Não sou eu que vou “buscar”. O que digo são factos e a história está em livros para que a leiam. Encontre um enimigo deste país, sem ser espanha, que tenha tantos conflitos territoriais e diplomáticos…não encontra!
Sure … since we kill each other in the financial arena its time kill our self’s with real weapons too. By the way great opportunity for Germany.
That’s the point! Ir would be the new Wehrmacht to complete the Lebensraum, I mean the EU…
10/10
The European Union should have a common army as a counterbalance to the Russian army. one who does not understand the importance of his own European army, he has no idea of life. Have neutrality and similar ideas for kindergarten.
Well, there are kindergartens, where kids are taught history so that they remember what germans did to the world ….and today’s EU is German hegemony, isn’t it? Who do you think such army would serve. Remember the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?
Barbara Szela Lesniak You do not understand the world. Reality is something else. I am from Croatia. We had many wars in history, but we did not want one. Do you have your culture and how to protect yourself from the great mix of cultures that are not cultures, “” You know who you are, where you are and where you go. Left political options lead you into big problems you are probably unknowingly aware of.
Yessssssss
Too soon. A European Border Guard and a European Coast Guard first.
Next comes a European Air force and Navy.
We have plenty of armies. Leave that until last.
An actual border patrol should be first, AGREED!
The border patrol sounds very nice. But just imagine sending troops to Hungarian borders that are under EU’s direct supervision. All they’d be doing would be saying “Welcome to Europe”
Each state have and should pay for their own border and coast guards. The UE is not a country and I am not willing to waste money on someone elses borders.
“UE army” means “IV Reich”. Booth are totalitarian. Germany has already burned Europe 2 times. Now germany barbarians are going to burn it 3th time using “refugees” and “UE army”.
Poland has its own want to be Mussolini, he is called Kaczynski.
I agree with Jimmi Sowa. I reckon The germans are once again pushing down Europe….
Tim Nick Knight I don’t think you really know what’s going on in my country. You’d better take care of yours…..
Long time over due. Not even mentioning how much money is wasted buying American hardware. We should be easily fend off countries like Russia.
How did Operation Barbarossa work out for you the last time ?
Ivan, it now it’s 2017 the EU is powerful, and the UK is just an overrated has been. Things change
The EU is what? What a joke…
First, before creating an army, the EU must become a federal state.
The fact is nobody wants a federal EU, would you use your new EU army to make them accept it ?
if no federal state, no army.
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Why think always destructive thoughts ??!! Can’t we live in Peace ??
Maybe….
Undoubtedly.
That would be a dream for Germany! I hope that Germany is kept out of it for histórical reasons. We miss UK to balance Germany’s ever increasing EU power overtaking.
How can you put Germany out if it’s one of the most powerful armies in the EU they are a democracy now come on be real…but in my view we must go into a federation with a government elected by all of us citizens…
No, it is not. Again, the EU is not a country.
But it will be.
Not with my country in it.
José Bessa da Silva your country is one of the most pro-European countries in Europe. You are not talking for your country.
You are such an ignorant. You had to be spanish. My country is one of the most euriceptic and that is why our government had to join anti-EU patliamentary forces in order to reach a majority. Read the news.
https://www.publico.pt/2003/12/07/sociedade/noticia/portugueses-sao-os-mais-desconfiados-da-uniao-europeia-1177862
Just as late as last year our society was discussing the possibility of doing a referendum to leave the EU. Are you bloddy serious right now? Than you spaniards wonder why you are considered arrogantly ignorant in this country. http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/politica/detalhe/catarina_martins_defende_referendo_sobre_a_uniao_europeia_se_houver_sancoes_a_portugal
https://books.google.pt/books?id=0Go-99K9q48C&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=portugal+cometeu+um+erro+ao+entrar+no+euro&source=bl&ots=fxK112ZX58&sig=pherh53MMC2oWFK19B5FtSP11jo&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA9u-spJrWAhXH2xoKHU5xAJwQ6AEIJzAE#v=onepage&q=portugal%20cometeu%20um%20erro%20ao%20entrar%20no%20euro&f=false
Magaly Morales If EU were democratic (but it’s not), there would be different ideas discussed and referendum used as the tool to decide. Poland has always been pro-EU, but aren’t we entittled to different opinions on e.g. Merkel’s immigrant policy? Does it have to be Germany and their French puppet to decide for other independent UE countries. And remember, EU is not a country.
Yes. And one fair tax system for all.
We need a European Army. Now separately we are spending more in total than warmongering USA . It is not practical or efficient.
Also we have a wonderful chance of creating an Army for the future, and Army without old concepts.
We need an Army that fully protects the EU citizens not only from other countries attacks but agains forest fires, floods, earthquakes, illegal migration, cyber attacks…a new Army this century.
There is no “european citizens” because the EU is not a country and never will be. It is also a lie that a common army will cost less, it all depends on how much you’re willing to waste. The world does not need more armies, nor do I need more taxes to waste on a military that would beused to impose foreign interests.
What wee need is to end the EU and return to be simply a single market.
José Bessa da Silva sorry, but you are in a very minority. Europe will be a country, that will stop any possibility of war in Europe and will make us stronger to defend ourselves against multinational corporations, trade unfairness, health and safety of our food and services, defends of environment…and a lot more.
And Europe will have an Army fit for this century Europeans needs and will stop dependency from USA and we will save lots of money that can go to services.
No, Im not in a minority and you will notice that when you see yourself with a war in your hands for trying to impose an imperialistic project on us.
It is also funny you claim the EU protect us from multinationals. That is the biggest lie of all times. The EU IS made andrun by multinationals. Multinationals use Brussels to enter in our countries.
The EU is a corrupt, vile institution and has no future. It already started to crumble. Only lunatics believe an antidemocratic institution has a future among the most educated nations on earth. You and the corrupt elite you protect are the real minority and will eventually suffer the same fate as Luis XVI if you do not change your ways.
https://books.google.pt/books?id=0Go-99K9q48C&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=portugal+cometeu+um+erro+ao+entrar+no+euro&source=bl&ots=fxK112ZX58&sig=pherh53MMC2oWFK19B5FtSP11jo&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA9u-spJrWAhXH2xoKHU5xAJwQ6AEIJzAE#v=onepage&q=portugal%20cometeu%20um%20erro%20ao%20entrar%20no%20euro&f=false
José Bessa da Silva your very small country have benefited enormously from entering the EU. And as I said, your opinion is not shared by a majority of your country’s citizens. Your opinion is just an oddity amongst the opinion of the vast majority of your country.
My “very small” country is poorer than in 1974. Where is the enormous benefit in that? You need to change glasses.
Also, you do not know what is the opinion of my country other wise you would not state such an ignorant and easily disproved lie. So please, abstain yourself from speaking about a country that is not yours and of which you know nothing my ignorant spaniard… https://www.publico.pt/2003/12/07/sociedade/noticia/portugueses-sao-os-mais-desconfiados-da-uniao-europeia-1177862
http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/pais/2014-10-17-Portugal-com-mais-pobres-do-que-em-1974
http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/politica/detalhe/catarina_martins_defende_referendo_sobre_a_uniao_europeia_se_houver_sancoes_a_portugal
Im sucha an oddity in fact, that Portugal current government is supported by anti-EU parliamentary forces. You know, your speeach about my nation sounds just like that about the UK. ” Oh no, they will never vot yes”, “The majority is in favour of the EU”, etc. Than, well, we all know how you eurofools fooled yourselves…
José Bessa da Silva I do trust more Eurobarometer pools. Criticism of EU policies are normal. It doesn’t mean they will vote to get out.
Ungrateful bitch Morales. You’d be speaking Germany nowadays, if it weren’t for the USA.
Gino Ronzitti it was Russia, not USA, the ones liberating Europe. USA came to pick up the rest and carry out the looting of anything valuable that was left in Europe, including nazis scientists and engineers . And we haven’t been able to get rid of them ever after. Time to go home, Yankee
Right, you trust more the propaganda made by EU in favour of the EU than electoral results and opinion pools made in the country you’re speaking about. Logic. It is very wise of you…hahaha
You are delusianal Morales. You should be institutionalized. Continentalists tend to suffer from dementia. If it wasn’t for us atlanticists this continent would be a mess of dictatorships, corruption, poverty and war.
Remember history …. Now when Germany and France dictate Poland how to govern our independent country, this is a dangerous idea.
Can they afford it with Britix & the cost of the new European Parliament building in Brussels @ €240 million? Have you seen the size of it.
If you have followed European Politics for the last decades, British influence in Europe have cost Europe trillions in loses and millions of employment. And have stopped the EU project from advancing. No, I don’t think Europe is going to miss Britain. We are going to miss Europe a lot more, until the older generation that voted Brexit is gone and we can return to Europe.
If you need a 35 years old soldier, but with all the experience needeed, just tell
Po co taka kosztowna(!)armia, skoro i tak do pilnowania granic zewnętrznych UE wynajmuje się de facto żołdaków Erdogana czy libijskich bandytów, bo armie posiadaczy granic nie mogą … działać??? ;-)
it is time the EU earn the Nobel Peace Prize it won.
70 years of peace = earned
Arnout Posthumus that’s the problem right there – inward thinking about Europe. How many EU countries contribute to war and oppression abroad with their weapons sales, for example?
We need to have a Europe that de-escalates conflicts and helps negotiates peace.
Yes,with the Western European Union and we remove away the NATO l
It would be a German army with foreign units, sound familiar ?
That’s rather ‘exotic’ for a trading agreement. A trading agreement having its own army? Bwaha.!
We don’t have a common tax policy and we are talking about common army you got to laugh. We need peace not army’s to feed the warmongers
A EU army is a step towards a federation that’s the way to go a EU federation with a president or prime minister elected by all Europeans through an universal vote not like US where there is a stupid electoral college…that’s why we must integrate finances, army, education, foreign affairs, that’s why we need a working state for that we need a Federation…countries independent and a common transnational government for finances, education, labor, army, foreign affairs, telecommunications, transports between all the states…at this point the EU commission has limited powers and it’s not elected by us citizens
You can’t integrate army’s before taxes that’s a con. And plus there’s is no democracy without the votes of each country are equivalent otherwise the small will bend to the biggest. We don’t need a UE controlled by the northern countries and also warmongers like France once UK is out of the way. The romantic view doesn’t correspond to the reality.
No way we’re propping up a pan-European army. More funds to education and start to reduce defence expenditure, which allows the same people to thrive.
Please do you know what you are saying if we had an EU army all the states would spend less on defence it would be better for all and there would be more money available for other areas, please go see for yourself before saying those things that’s not true a common army is cheaper than everyone having individual armies…
to invade immediately Hungary and Poland??
majd azonnal behatol Magyarországra és Lengyelországba??
Noooo
Yes. Without Britain that still have colonies in the EU like…Cyprus for example
I think Cyprus want this British base !!
Of course.
Yes Read for EU ARMY
ΕU army under German control will just revive the days of Charlamene and NAZIs. They have already distroyed the economies of Europe and stolen the sovereignty of nations — not to be trusted.
Friend a EU army won’t be controlled by Germany the nuclear weapons are on France…Italy and Poland have great armies and the other countries too so I don’t think Germany in this EU army will be the dominant force specially because the big guns nukes and aircraft carrier are in France…but in terms of politics I myself defend an EU federation were all of us would vote on an EU president or Prime Minister, in that federation Germany wouldn’t have the ability to rule Europe why simple mathematics, Germans are 80 millions the EU as about 500 millions citizens so with a president elected by 500 millions a country with 80 millions can tell him what to do so we must go to a Federation with universal voting not to an US system with an electoral college, in Europe who has the most votes combined wins…!