UPDATE 16/11/2018: It looks like the text of a possible Brexit deal has finally been agreed by negotiators. However, there is no guarantee that Theresa May will be able to get the deal through the British Parliament. As the details of the agreement have become clearer, opposition has grown among both eurosceptic and pro-European politicians in the UK. Now, Theresa May faces a drip-drip of ministerial resignations, and the possibility of a no confidence vote. Even if she clings on to power, the parliamentary arithmetic seems insurmountable; she just doesn’t seem to have the numbers needed to get a deal through parliament. What happens now? Are we looking at ‘no deal’ by default? Or the possibility of a second referendum? What do you think?
UPDATE 28/09/2018: Six months left on the clock, and Britain finds itself stuck between a rock and a hard place in the Brexit talks. Either it goes for the “Canada model”, which means maximum freedom but also could cost the UK in terms of trade access to Europe (and could potentially throw up a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic), or it takes the “Norway model” of maximum access to the EU Single Market but at the cost of following European rules and accepting freedom of movement. Of course, the positions are more nuanced than that, but this is roughly where we are.
Meanwhile, Theresa May’s infamous Chequers plan is apparently dead in the water. It has the distinction of being the only plan that has united people on both sides of the debate, albeit in utter condemnation. Is there enough time to come up with an alternative? If Theresa May sticks to her guns and refuses to back down from the Chequers plan, does it mean “no deal” is inevitable? Let us know your thoughts and comments on the state of Brexit below, and we’ll put them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
ORIGINAL 16/07/2018: From the beginning, the Brexit negotiations have not run smoothly. The latest upheaval comes from a divided British government with the sudden resignations of both the Brexit negotiator, David Davis, and Foreign Minister, Boris Johnson. Will this lead to a collapse of the current government and another election to disrupt the ongoing process? The Brexit talks have to be finalised soon but will it be possible?
How bad would ‘no deal’ really be? This question remains on the table. In her Lancaster House speech in January 2017, British Prime Minister Theresa May famously said that “no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Eight months of tortuous negotiations later, she delivered another speech in Florence sketching (very broadly) her vision for the future EU-UK relationship. The phrase “no deal” had, by this point, been dropped from her rhetoric (though journalists did manage to goad it out of her during the press conference afterwards).
Remainers admit that “no deal” would be a disaster for the EU, but they fear it would be even more catastrophic for Britain. There have been reports of grounded aircraft, 30-mile traffic jams at the port of Dover, immediate food and medicine shortages, and the potential loss of millions of jobs.
Leavers dismiss this as “project fear”. They argue that preparing for “no deal” is an essential part of the negotiations. If the EU believes that Britain will agree to absolutely anything in order to avoid talks breaking down entirely, then it will push for the toughest position it can get. They believe the UK government should spend much more money on Brexit preparations, so that the EU understands it is serious about walking away. They hope that European businesses (which want to keep selling goods to Britain) will lobby their governments to accept a deal beneficial to the UK.
Would no deal be better than a bad deal for Britain? What would a “bad deal” look like? And what would be the consequences of “no deal”? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
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It should be a fair deal for both parties. I hope they can find common ground.
There is no fair deal
Péter what do you mean?
I hope there will be fair deal but also a wornig for the countrys want a exit. The brithis are not very happy yet to leave.
There would have to be a referendum on should there be another vote before there could be another referendum, this isn’t going to happen. We are leaving, good luck.
If there is a deal, it needs to be what we had before Ted Heath lied to us.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public
George how can you know what the British want , your not British .
Does the so-called fair deal mean BREXIT but maintain all benefit as an EU member state. By enjoying EU citizenship rights but no need to take responsibility? Fair on whose side? When BREXIT is endangering the survival of EU, UK has to pay for this. This is not a matter of fair or unfair, it is a matter of survival or breaking up of the EU, when united is a powerful force which means so much to EU citizens and even peace in Europe. In a global era, when Japan and Korea are forming alliance with the US for protection, when SE Asia countries are seeking collective protection under the ASEAN, the OPEC, the Arab Union….with what small small European countries are able to outcompete or at least survive this global political economy in front of big countries such as the US, China and Russia, with the US and China are the largest and second largest economy, while all three countries have the three most powerful military force. A united Europe under the EU appears the only compatible and wise way to survive the turbulence of the era.
https://tigerfort.dreamwidth.org/71878.html
Connie Fallon Half of us literally didn’t know what we were voting for. The Leave campaign deliberately said nothing about what would happen after a Leave win because they didn’t want to scare off any voters:
https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1009155543087362050?s=19
David needs to admit that the prevailing principle of the international organization is still largely operating under realpolitik, which is largely the “jungle rule”. Can you see how fierce the US has been launching attack against the whole world? Being fair to the UK means sacrificing some interest of EU. EU leaders are accountable to the EU citizens not that of the British. Realpolitik is a political reality.
Everyone knew wot they were voting for stop putting ppl down ppl arnt as thick as u believe
The government have made it a bad deal since day one in reality the government haven’t wanted to impermanent the the result of the referumn the prime minister is a pro remain most of the top mps are pro remain while the infighting continues the eu is happy thinking we will remain which I hope will never happens.
Of course…the Commission, led by Selmayr…seems intent on intransigence and guaranteeing the worst possible outcome for both sides.
If there can’t be a deal it proves that the EU is a sham. Joining it was just another of Thatcher’s bad ideas.
Uk economy was in the gutter when you joined. Like it or not joning gave you a lifeline.
Wrong person it was TedHeath
You are right. She was right.
So many freeloaders got on the EU gravy train it broke down.
I agree that joining the failed European Experiment was a bad idea but it was not Thatcher’s, it was Ted Healths. Here is where the great EU lie started for us, other Nations have their own starting point for being conned by the wannabe EU empire builders. Anything built on a lie is bound to fail. 8|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXFssBHnRE
Diaconu Utter rubbish, apart from the USA the worlds economy was in a mess after the last great European world War to unite Europe under one flag & one ruler, the EU had nothing to do with the recovery, democracy and global trade did.
another who doesn’t know what the eu is about.no wonder we can’t get anywhere.
It was Ted Heath that lied to us. I just want what we thought we had. Trade only and they have no control over us.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public
It worries me that the uninformed think they are experts, we joined the then Common market before Thatcher was leader. A no deal Brexit it just nuts, whywould ee
Continued:why would we want to leave the single market to make deals with the likes of Trump, total madness.
“Uk economy was in the gutter when you joined. Like it or not joning gave you a lifeline”
The facts seem to dispute this, the UK economy suffered it’s worst spell of the 1970’s after we joined the EEC…… Any lifeline they gave us was clearly attached to a 1 Ton lead weight
True Alan the EU are showing their true anti nation state colours
The British Brexit is the start of Shock Doctrine
This country is going down the drain while the tories squabble like a bunch of school kids.
Without question yes. Being tied to the same organisation that created the Euro crisis, the migrant crisis, the banking crisis, the mass unemployment crisis & the democratic deficit crisis would be the hight of stupidity.
Ivan burrows. So you support lower living standards and high inflation. How unpatriotic of you. Don’t you care about our poor and younger generation
Jon Bromfield Of course I care about our poor and younger generation, which is why leaving the pointless EU is vital.
Fascism, Nazism, Communism and now Europeanism, different flag but same crazed lust to rule all Europe, it is you who is ‘unpatriotic’.
But thnks for reguritating the same remoaners lies 8|
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/806253/Brussels-destroying-Europeans-hope-future-Danish-MEP-EU
One on that list is correct but only one
Steve Which would you say are not correct ?
Ivan. You’re lumping all of the recent global problems together as being the EU’s fault. Whereas the banking crisis could have been foreseen, it started in the US. The migrant crisis originates in the middle east.
We’re constantly told that unemployment figures are historically low, the previous figures and the Euro crisis being largely caused by the banking crisis. Admittedly the Euro could have been handled better, it needs a central bank that can redistribute money from areas where the Euro is undervalued to help areas where the Euro is overvalued. Not sure that I’d like to be the politician that pushed that one through though.
The US played a huge part in the banking crisis by deregulating bank lending, so claiming its the EU’s fault and one of the reasons why we should leave, while the only other option is closer trade links with the US is just laughable.
Yet the rest of the world has recovered but the EU is still in a mess. It is well known that the the Euro is a political currency designed to tie nations to Brussels & to hell with the consequences, to claim other wish now shows you either do not know or are lying about the reality of the failing European experiment.
As stated in the EU treaties the goal is create a United states of Europe, the fact very few people want and is causing untold damage it is irrelevant to the EU fanatics.
Tories don’t want a deal with anyone this is all smoking mirrors
3 million EU residents living and /or working in the UK 1.2 million UK residents, of which 67% are retired, living in the whole of the EU (source ONS) who is benefiting from the open job market. £60 billion trade defecit.for which we pay an unknown amount (god knows I’ve tried to get an exact figure – no one seems to know) to be a member – lets face it, Britain isn’t benefiting from this ‘partnership’
Like it or not, people move to where the jobs are. It’s kind of self regulating. When we need people in this country to maintain our jobs market, of course we benefit from the 3 million that are here. It’s your kind of woolly thinking that is causing the mess we’re in. So far as trade is concerned, if there’s a trade deficit it simply demonstrates that people prefer to buy goods produced in the EU against goods produced in the UK. Given that both the UK economy and those of the other 27 all operate to the same rules, the blame for that falls squarely on British business.
I find your comments very amusing – accusing someone of wooly thinking is quite funny, these figures are based over a period, as to buying goods the tariff system in the EU ensures that we are pushed to buy from the EU rather than the rest of the world, as to jobs UK residents working in North America and Canada 2.5 million, there’s more Brits working in South Africa than Europe – btw the trade deficit is widening by 10% per annum and the EU jobs market is shrinking. The cash cow is dying and showing no signs of coming back to life.
So tell me why we have lower living standards and a weak currency since the vote?? Idiot
The reality is we should there is a level field for everyone to play on. It is our own fault we prefer to buy Norwegian fish, German cars, French wine, Italian fashion, spend our vacations in other countries. We need to put our money where our mouth is. Make, grow, catch what we or our EU partners want. No football club ever voluntarily left the premier division because it was to hard.
Michael Tagg Norwegian fish is taken from UK waters
Stephen, you have forgotten to mention the contribution of these EU residents and EU membership have contributed to UK’s GDP growth. So not think like Trump and think of only your losses but never the gains. The UK is an isolated island. If it is not an EU member, would China be using the UK as a stepping stone to the EU market? Would China be establishing its first European off-shore RMB clearing center in the UK? Would the UK be chosen for the first RMB bond? Cannot all these financial gain not cover the losses?
The UK has a £30 billion surplus on services with Europe, but the Tory politicians are so stupid that they will give that surplus away for a FTA on products were you already have a deficit.
The reality is the UK is unable to produce what it consumes, 30% of everything consumed in this country needs to be imported.
I’m not afraid with a no-deal Brexit. GB looses, EU doesn’t.
If there is a deal, it needs to be what we had before Ted Heath lied to us.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public
Turn the clock back 40 years because the world, economics and technology hasn’t changed a bit since then. Good idea!!
NONE EU immigration is rising as EU falls.
We are exchanging Europeans for none Europeans.
Always going to happen, our employers fetch them over to work for less and they don’t go back home to a third world country, would you?
No Deal is better than a bad deal
No deal is what Trump is after; not to negotiate his own trade deal with us until we are on our knees.
America first, us second begging for the crumbs.
John like we all ready are with the EUROPEAN union better to go with the W.T.O then be under the E U thumb
I agree with you
David
bold statement, explain why please
Steve Drake because we will never be really FREE AS long as EUROPEAN union control any of this country trade or Laws or any thing else you can think of
Of course!
What a silly question!
Even Justin Trudeau of Canada has said so re his trade spat with the USA.
Yes
The best deal is the one we have now. Remain with EU.
No thanks we have had enough of the vile EU
100% yes the idea was to break all strings from eu power and run the country with our own laws like the way it suppose to be!
Thought we had our own sovereign government. I must be mistaken. Or are you stupid??
Nope just know our government has fallen to Eu power over 50% of the laws we follow is not even made by our government but by the Eu.
VAT = EU
Our fishery’s = controlled by Eu
Immigration control = follows the Eu rule book
There is many more we take from the Eu and it all takes more power from our own country Eu has taken over England like nazi tried to without dropping one bomb
No Deal because May’s deals is a bad deal.
We’d be better walking out with no deal at all.
No deal is better than May’s deal.
Definitely no deal .
Let’s scrap this whole Brexit fiasco. All its brought since the vote is division and lower living standards. We are the laughing stock of the world
So you’re a remainers! You’d love that! It won’t happen!!
My living standards haven’t been lowered. Are you on a different planet? 😂😂
Bryan. Aren’t you lucky Bryan. My living standards have actually gone up. But unlike you I care about the poor and younger generation. So If you can read bud, look at government statistics and you will find that since the vote they have dropped. FACT
John , you never considered that the big influx of migrants brought down wages for many and that the influx is also responsible for 18% of house price increase FACT !
Hi Tony. I thought it was our sovereign government who dictated the minimum wage. Not migrants. I do apologize. Oh and seeing you are clever. Please explain to me why here in the southwest we have very few migrants but some of the highest property prices in the country FACT. Idiot
Jon I’m not your bud! And if YOUR living standards haven’t dropped then what the f&%k are you complaining about? Oh….the remain propaganda that says the whole UK is starving 😂😂😂
sorry Brian. You seem rather sensitive. This is what happens when your fed bullshit? As I said bud. Look at government statistics .You will find we not only have lower living standards. But also high inflation and a weak currency. FACTS. Now instead of being so selfish think about what this Brexit fiasco is doing to our poor and younger generation. Instead of your I’m alright jack attitude
Scrap the whole EU fiasco. You must all know by now that it is an unelected dictatorship ruled by Germany who are so desperate for another war that they are filling Europe with invaders.
Incorrect
Keep taking the blue pill.
Just Walk away !!
We should just leave then start to make deals
No deal is the worst possible deal
The chequeres deal is a very bad deal.No deal far Better,have faith in your country after all thats what we voted for LEAVE EU.You don’t get divorced then spend a couple of nights in bed with your ex partner😁
sorry i dont agree no deal means were totally isolated
i have faith in the country i dont have faith in the right wing brexitters who are only looking after their own backs
Brexit: Is no deal better than a bad deal?
A bad deal is a deal offered that is useless to the recipient. In fact it is an insult from those who extend the offer to those they are offering it to.
However, this Brexit issue is far more than simply a good or bad deal. It is an end to the 40 odd years incarceration of the people of the United Kingdom. It is a reinstatement of their freedom, removed from them against their will by covert governments, who, were either too stupid to understand the peoples democratic rights or were too evil to care about selling their soul for the bribes they took. Ted Heath was as bent as you can get and he took UK citizens for rabble who deserved the desolation he was placing them in by doing this.
https://centurean2.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/the-nazi-agent-who-became-british-prime-minister_-edward-heath-nothing-honourable-about-a-traitor/#comments
And here is a little look at the man who had more on his mind than the welfare of his countrymen and their land.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sir-edward-heath-latest-seven-historical-child-sexual-abuse-allegations-operation-conifer-wiltshire-a7984401.html
Which is why he was such easy bait for the EEC recruiters. And why so much of it has been made legal today.
Then we have to look at why Europe wanted the UK as part of its conquests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMlYoUKeCqw
Trump’s advice to PM May was the best yet. Sue them. Europe he was referring to.
The very best deal is a very swift and permanent #exitfrombrexit. We are European and need to remain firmly at the centre of the EU
With respect I disagree. We are English speaking and not European
Sean actually English is an amalgam of many European languages. At one point our nobility spoke French whilst lower classes spoke a form of English more reminiscent of German or Dutch. So get your facts right we care very much European.
Sean
actually English is an amalgam of many European languages. At one point our nobility spoke French whilst lower classes spoke a form of English more reminiscent of German or Dutch. So get your facts right we care very much European.
Most Brits have never seen themselves as European and never will
Yes 100 times yes.
There never was supposed to be a deal we voted out that’s democracy
Yes
Those who advocate leaving with no deal must explain how this will avoid a hard border in Ireland and how it would avoid the introduction of disasterous friction in trade between Britain and the EU. Definitive solutions only please ..No more pie in the sky wishful thinking.
They can’t, they have no idea just a vote against the establishment. Not one fad said how it will benefit any of us, just maybe, just maybe in 10 20 30 years time we will be ok. With trump and putin stating between them they hold 90% of the nuclear weapons, they couldn’t agree who had the most gas, but doesn’t matter, between them they could control the world. The EU of course is a bit of a stumbling block but can be divided and ruled
We didn’t vote for a trade deal we voted to leave and morons like you just trying to muddy the waters because you don’t like losing to right wingers trade will come because we are a rich nation and that is simple
Nathan Why do you have to be insulting to people whose views are different to yours? The use of words like “moron” does nothing to further a reasoned debate. Please explain how we are a rich nation so its simple that trade will come? And it would be good to see your evidence that everyone who voted to leave the EU doesn’t want a trade deal with them.
Thanks Sue. Nathan needs to explain why he thinks Britain is a rich country…It might just be because we have been a member of the EU for over 40 years. We had become the poor man in Europe before we joined the EEC and our growth has slowed since the referendum. He also ignored the Irish border conundrum. Presumably because he doesn’t have an answer.
David Naylor I have no problems with peoe having different views. What annoys me us when they resort to insults and put downs instead of giving s reason why they feel the person has got it wrong. Sadly FB is full of people who feel it’s ok to insult others. Too easy to do that online, needs more courage to insult someone face to face in real life.
No brexit is better than a bad deal. No deal will make the country implode, but at that point lefties and immigrants will get the blame. Bigots are always blameless.
Yawn. The country was supposed to explode when we didn’t join the Euro.
It’s the EU that will implode when we leave without a deal and they go bust.
Wendy see you’re a fan of the waxly lemon. Shame he can’t ruin any more paedophilia trials at the moment. He could have least tried to cause a mistrial for his old paedo mates in the EDL…
Wendy Harris and no. No one predicted disaster when didn’t join the euro. Actually due to current trade wars with the US, the EU is likely to end up stronger and we’ll probably be back in and have to accept the Euro once we’re sufficiently poor.
Wendy I hear this quite a bit bit I can’t recall anyone saying that about the euro, In fact the opposite
I think you will find that there were a large number of “lefties” and “immigrants” who voted leave. Are they bigots?
David if you are a remainer the first abuse from the right is always leftie, generally followed by saying something all the lines of ‘if you like Europe so much why don’t you live there’. EU immigrants certainly didn’t vote for brexit. As for others it seems unlikely but not beyond the realms of stupidity. Like the people working at airbus that want hard brexit and to keep their jobs, as if a european multinational will have any use for a factory in the UK without the UK promising to follow all EU rules. Stupid knows few bounds. We’ll pay to have less power than we have now or have no deal brexit and watch prices rocket, while service sector collapses.
Matt Shirakami typical remoaner drivel. In your world every level headed, sane, right thinking person who voted leave is a thick bigot ? You’ve surpassed even the normal thumb suckers reaction to losing a debate, they usually do that AFTER their argument has been destroyed. You, my loser are the king of thick reminisce haha
Matt , and if you’re a leaver the first abuse from remainers is that you’re a bigot. People in glass houses and all that.
Gary the bigots I was refering to were the far-right bigots of the FLA, EDL and National Action. Directly after the brexit vote my students mostly EU nationals were abused on more than one occasion by aggressive people telling them they shouldn’t be in the UK because of Brexit, which shock them up quite a lot because they were only studying English here anyway. My own father voted for Brexit as did my mother and don’t think either of them are bigots. So again my comment was directed at the kind of thugs who feel it’s reasonable to tell people to go back to their own countries, who have been emboldened by brexit. I reserve the right to think people whose livelihoods depend on Europe and yet still demand hard brexit are idiots ie workers at airbus. Many brexit voters don’t fall in that category, like the many pensioners who voted for it. Though I still feel they’ve been duped.
Elizabeth Making plenty of assumptions there. See my response to Gary if you’d like to see how sweeping your accusation is. The people like Farage who agitated for Brexit are bigots, not only that but they’re hypocritical. He’ll be collecting a fat pension from European, which is part of the reason we’ll still be financially responsible, and were you aware that he’s applied for residency in France as well as betting against the pound as it’s collapsed? You can call me whatever you like, I couldn’t care less. I do hope I’m wrong about brexit as many people I care about aren’t wealthy enough to weather the impact of it. I didn’t see where you destroyed my argument though. Perhaps you could point it out too me. Whats a ‘reminisce’ isn’t that what you do when you think of better times?
Just make this nightmare end
The Irish should leave the EU too, otherwise accept a hard border.
That’s what I call dictatorship
Nope, it’s their choice.
Frankly, it’s not our problem. Southern Ireland is part of the EU Empire.
Yeah you need the Irish to leave with you, it’s the only way out of this mess.
Won’t be happening though.
No deal
The one and only reason the other EU nations want the UK to remain in the union is that they don’t want to lose the money Britain pays in,as I understand it the UK as agreed to pay a ‘divorce bill’ that the commission negotiators are content with, and as it’s generally agreed a no trade deal would be catastrophic for both sides just get on with it because people are tired of this now.
Out for god sake
Out for god sake
No Deal
No Deal
No deal, both from an European perspective as from a British perspective. The current deal on the table is an affront to both EU and BR democratic values and goes against the spirit of the Brexit vote.
If they want to go, let them be. No hard feelings.
If they decide they want to go back to the EU, we should receive them with open arms!
Yep
Stupit Brexiteers wants to have a Brexit, so they have to deal with the consequences. You can’t have both.
Yes, any day
Why wait how the EC & its President Mr. Juncker & Co will react once the UK submitted its deal and Mr JCJ recuperates from his serious medical condition- which is all private & confidential?
The UN Charter forms the constitutional basis for all sovereign nations and is binding on all signatories. The EU is not a nation nor is it sovereign. It only received UN observer status in 1974 as EEC- not as EU.
Since it is not a signatory it needs its “own”- but UN compliant “Charter”. Why not visit & read the UN Charter?
http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-charter/un-charter-full-text/
* How fair and legal is the ever evolving EU concept when:
* all EU laws were decreed to be EU legally binding- be they fair or unfair, just or unjust, helpful and UN compliant or not.
* once a sovereign nation is caught in a dispute- consisting of a mixture of economic and constitutional matters- it partly subscribed to and partly coerced into it by “undemocratic” machinations- are they challenge-able in the UN International Court of Justice?
* a sovereign nations right for self-determination in the EU becomes severely impeded! A right enshrined in the UN Charter, a basic Human right and forms part of international law and is inalienable. Could the EU be in conflict with the UN Charter? If yes, how?
* “unlawful” laws remain unlawful- although & despite someone decrees it to be legal & its law.
* probing the international legality & ramifications of any or no deal- would make an interesting test case at the International Court of Justice. Why not get ready (in parallel)- just in case? It would clarify the situation for the EU and its Members in future.
No deal asap !!
Agree no deal, let’s start to Export Bananas and privatize NHS since there will be no money!
Agree no deal, let’s start to Export Bananas and privatize NHS since there will be no money!
WORK FOR UNITED STATES OF EUROPE..INCLUDING USSR..DO NOT WASTE MORE TIME..PLEASE..
A no deal exit is the best encouragement to get started on a fair deal once it’s happened
Yes and don’t try changing it
No deal just walk away and fuck the eu close the borders deport all immigrants from last 20yrs and their families
There will be no deal. For one reason. The EU needs us. May is allowing them to flex their muscles, who wouldn’t being so pathetic. So walk away they’ll be back with a deal. May and EU…..useless
No Deal is BETTER THAN A BAD DEAL
Yes
There is no half measures with the term leave. Mays plan is half measures. These negotiations have been one sided from the start. No deal is better than a bad deal.
No deal is the worst deal of all and a bad deal is a bad deal …. remain is so much better than any of these!!!
Nope
Fuoriiiii da questaaaa Europa
No Deal. WTO Rules
Ha ha good luck with that. Stock up on spam and spaghetti hoops while you still can.
No deal is better than any deal with Europe as they are only interested in ruling us and bleeding the country dry.
Yes, its all the fault of the horrible EU. Dont you see the British government reflect their own faults to the EU and idiots like Farage take advantage of that? Everybody know the EU is far from perfect, but do we have an alternative?
Can you give us your qualifacticons and political or economic background which enables you to make such a statement or are you simply taking out of your arse.
Harry Mclean
Maybe you have to give this a read, my friend:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/16/brexit-second-vote-nhs-trade-facts
Erik sorry I think you miss understood my comment was aimed at Dennis.
Harry
Allright 😁
@Erik
“Everybody know the EU is far from perfect, but do we have an alternative?”
Agreed, and the issue is the EU doesn’t seem interested in doing anything about its imperfections, apart from demanding more money and more integration
It was over 40 years since the UK last had a chance to give an opinion on the EU, instead of whining about the short term impact of Brexit what people should be doing is looking forward 40 years to how the EU will look then
Please remember only 37% voted leave, the remainder of us are stuck with whatever our shambles of a government come up with if they keep ignoring the illegality, fraud, the polls showing the majority are now for remain and calls for a People’s Vote. Bullying in Parliament – and just who is PM these days? TM appears to be in name only and changes her mind as often as the wind changes direction.
No deal will cripple us and cause harm, and probably deaths from food and medicine shortages, lack of radioactive materials and the eventual demise of the NHS. Anyone wanting a no deal, I hope you can live with yourselves if and when that happens. Or maybe a few deaths here and there are “worth it”, just like people’s livelihoods.
Good to see project fear is not dead ! it didn’t work the first time so try and try again it gives the retarded remoaners something to do
Les , care to give evidence to prove that saying only 37% of the electorate voted leave is wrong.
Dave Morrow only 33% voted to stay stats wonderful things
Noreen Ashton..Only 37% that voted leave.. It’s still a bigger percentage than those that voted remain…
Deaths from food shortages?? 😂😂😂 The George Soros propaganda machine has really got to you hasn’t it. And by the way, the June YouGov survey shows that only 13% (hardly a majority 😂) want to abandon Brexit completely and only 21% want a fresh referendum. Almost half (48%) said they don’t even follow Brexit news, so they don’t care! Perhaps that’s why most of the remain FB pages have less followers than a Vulcan bomber 😂😂😂
Less voted remain.
Those that don’t vote give their consent to the argument that gains the most support
Medicines – do you not read?
14 YouGov polls on the trot are for remain.
And thise that don’t vote in any decent referendum are accepting of the staus quo. They haven’t said they want change therefore you cannot assume it. People didn’t know the consequences, they do now. Leave.EU has now been fined and referred, hardly an endorsement of a fair vote.
37% or 48:52 is insufficient majority to make such massive changes. Farage said unfinished business…
Not always – and not so consistently. The fact is that this is an absolute shambles.
It was before and it still is now, the Eu are never going too take you seriously if they know your going too broke a deal walk away on wto terms
The Irony of this is unbelievable , No Deal is better than a Bad deal , and who is it that has put the bad deal on the negotiating table , that right we have.
No deal is better than a bad deal !WTO Rules
No deal, goto WTO far better than Mays FauxBrexit..
I want what is best for the UK the rest of Europe can decide what is best for them and thier individual countries, I voted to join the EEC in the 70s and it morphed into something totally different, I knew this time what I voted for so I want politicians to stop telling me I didn’t! I hope the deal is good for the UK and for the EU there should be no losers just respect for independence
I want what is best for the UK the rest of Europe can decide what is best for them and their individual countries, I voted to join the EEC in the 70s and it morphed into something totally different, I knew this time what I voted for so I want politicians to stop telling me I didn’t! I hope the deal is good for the UK and for the EU there should be no losers just respect for independence
Treason May is useless. Totally gutless negotiator. No deal is what we should be aiming for. They will come running as they can’t get by without our money.
Did you morons, racists and traitors really think that the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain, whose goal has always been to maintain their wealth, status and control, were going to destroy the country just to keep you happy?
The only ones on your side are those who will either personally profit from a hard Brexit, or have a cosy overseas bolt hole.
How does it feel to have been suckered?
Lol; typical idiot, repeating the same old rhetoric and expecting a different result. Calling leavers racists, morons and traitors really worked great during the referendum did it not? Didn’t you lose? Funny but don’t the EU want to maintain their wealth, status and control as you put it? What’s our future as a vassal state? We aren’t the ones that got suckered; fool.
bahhahaha Brexiters campaign was based on true facts instead, wasn’t it? Like the 350 m to the NHS and the day after the referendum Farage said the figures were not true…or can you please give 10 examples how the Brexit is going to work and how do you think you are going to survive…and yes honestly the racism is getting worse in this country after Brexit
Fabiana
I pretty sure it didn’t say £350m would go to the NHS but that that would be the amount of money available when we don’t pay EU. Where on the bus did it promise the NHS would get all the money.
But a “vassal state” is exactly what we’re going to be. Either to the EU on soft Brexit, or to Trump’s USA on a hard one. The only way to keep any control at all is to remain….
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/theresa-may-back-my-chequers-plan-or-brexit-wont-happen-11437460
Several prominent members of the Leave campaign said so. But that’s not the point. The “£350m” itself was a lie.
Oh, and barely a month ago the Government announced they would be paying the NHS the money “as promised during the campaign”. Of course, it then turned out that they didn’t have it.
BREXIT means the UK needs to seek protection from the US against potential military threat. The current trade war means UK can either surrender to US bully or fight against the military and economic superpower alone. The British people need to admit that a better deal is better than no deal. I prefer to say “better” rather than “fair”. What is better than no deal might actually see by the British people “unfair”, while “fair” by EU citizens. We cannot pretend not knowing such reality.
No brexit is better than brexit
This is very true. When the superpower is launching attacks against major economies all over the world. BREXIT would expose UK to highly dangerous position. As of the time, British political leaders appear to have been ignoring this reality and are still fighting for narrow personal/party interest rather than that of the country at this critical moment. It needs a wise and brave leader to admit it is too late for BREXIT and have the course reverted.
Economic Miracle bestowed by EU membership
In the early 70’s the UK was described as the sick man of Europe, this was because of the wildcat strikes with papers reporting on the millions of days lost. When this industrial strive reached other countries that were said to have ‘caught the British sickness’. The economy other than this was sound with the balance of trade hovering around break even.
The UK started to exploit North Sea Oil (& Gas) in the late 60’s, the first pipeline opened in 1975 (replacing ship to shore operations) and in 1980 the UK became a modest net exporter. This is the true engine behind the UK’s economic success from the early 70’s.
Neither the elimination of wildcat strikes nor oil exploitation had any ‘help’ from the EU, however membership did have a significant adverse effect on the UK economy. Capitalist ‘tend’ to try and maximise profits and minimise costs by moving production to the lowest cost area. They are stopped by the threat of retaliation from their current host nation, there is no point in producing a product cheaper if you are barred from the host market! EU membership however removed this threat and firms were able to move to lower cost areas with more mailable work forces with impunity (Fords moved UK production to Portugal etc.) with the inclusion of even cheaper Eastern European nations joining the EU, Portugal has seen its ‘stolen’ car production, closed and moved. This trend is not restricted to the car industry but the car industry is well documented and all of these facts can be readily confirmed.
This exporting of the UK manufacturing base to the EU has resulted in a significant trade deficit. The Office of National Statistics (ONS) have a graph showing the decline (when viewing the graph please bear in mind the very positive impact North Sea Oil should have had as the UK moved from a significant importer to a modest exporter from the late 60’s to 1980). Even including our oil exports the deficit for last year was in excess of £100bn and on a downwards slope.
This trade deficit is only with the EU with the UK breaking even trading with the rest of the world.
Historically the tools to reverse a trade deficit are, restricting imports, tariffs, quotas etc. (Illegal under EU membership) or devaluation of the currency. Sterling has fallen in value by 30% in the last 15 years but the graph shows this hasn’t even slowed the rate of decline. There is a claim by some economists that inward investment can plug the hole caused by the trade deficit. For this to work the investment must improve the economy by utilising idle resources. The Nissan plant is sited as an example, increasing employment in an area of high unemployment. However the mere selling of a country’s assets does nothing, other than transfer ownership and future profits abroad. The sale of assets has been going on to cover the hole created by the trade deficit but given the UK is running out of assets to sell and the deficit is still growing a major (i.e. significantly great than 30%) devaluation of sterling is the only option remaining. Obviously this will have a significant impact on the cost of living and the economy and fall mainly on the young. Oil is having a resurgence and can delay the impact into the mid-term but again this only puts more of the burden on the young.
This is the true economic miracle bestowed upon the UK as a result of our membership of the EU.
Any continuation of the current trade policies is complete madness.
I think Mrs Thatcher had quite a bit to do with curing the Sick Man of Europe syndrome , rather more than the EU
Trevor I preferred to point out it had nothing to do with the EU as people will try to drag the conversation into politics (if you mention Mrs Thatcher) rather than discuss the real economic damage Britain’s membership of the EU has caused to our economy.
BREXIT MEANS BREXIT NO DEAL THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED 2 YEAR’S AGO
The sheer disingenuos “debate” going on at the moment. Our bloody government isnt going to leave . Thier pocket books depend on it too much . ! We will have to totally send the tories to oblivion politcally for this abject betrayal ! Pass this on . Stop voting tory !
We would have had a good deal by now if those greedy people like Gina Miller ,Tony Blair ,John Major and Gordon Brown kept out of it , but they were looking after their on wealth not the country ‘s interest .
And the likes of Right-Smug are working in our best interests? Sure!
A bad deal or no deal is out of the question. Negotiating until a satisfactory deal for both sides is attained is the only way forward, how ever long it takes.
No. we did not vote to be stuck in perpatuaty renegotiating forever. we need to walk away and force the EUs hand. whilst we stay like this they will never offer anything acceptable
To do that you need a strong person at the helm to fight for the UK’s best interests. Do we have that now ? ? The EU don’t want to negotiate they want to dictate and our PM doesn’t seem strong enough to fight our corner, or she doesn’t really want to leave so her heart isn’t in the negotiations to get the best deal for us. She needs to be on our side of the fence not sitting on it.
A good deal would involve things like the 80+% of British business that don’t export to the EU shouldn’t have to abide by EU standards, rules and laws (goods etc exported to the EU should obviously be required to meet EU standards – common sense).
A good deal would see either British control over territorial waters, Inc fishing, or the EU paying for a licence to fish in UK waters – and paying towards the regeneration and training etc of fishermen and communities that have lost their industry to the EU.
FREE trade isn’t the be-all-and-end-all of it, a reciprocal deal would be good, with both sides guarantee the rights of citizens already in Britain and EU -with an end to freedom of movement.
(That doesn’t mean an end to immigration, it means an end to freedom of movement).
It makes sense for both parties to continue cooperating and maintaining things like aviation security and sharing intelligence for security – with the UK paying a reasonable fee to remain in those commities/organisations.
No ECJ jusristiction over UK law.
Total freedom to make our own trade deals world wide.
That to me would be the begining of a good deal.
What May has tabled is an excessively bad deal and would cripple the UK if implemented – which is probably what she and her EU and Remainer elite billionaire paymasters want.
Yes no deal is better than no deal
Just walk away from eu pricks
Gary Hodgen
…and then?
Really sad about the Brits that still believe that the EU is to blame for what wrong in the UK. If you stay with the rest we will be stronger if not you will suffer more than the rest. think about it.
We should leave on WTO, it is still possible at any time to negotiate a free trade deal on WTO. Businesses would know now what is happening and make preparations. Donald Trump may have been right about taking the EU to court, we should have the right to make deals to take over the second we are out of the EU. We need access to food and medicines.
A no deal is better than anything Daisy May can come up with.
Forgotten on the island is not the solution for the UK economy
The only bad deal is no deal
Brexit: Is no deal better than a bad deal?
When the British people were asked if they wanted to leave European jurisdiction or remain within the EU there was no reference to, or, even acknowledgement of, some kind of ‘deal’ we had to make, to be free of its grip.
There was no mention that gaining our freedom meant we had to pay a fine, or, accept probation, or, some kind of peculiar transition period. This only arose ‘after’ they realised they had lost the vote. They were so out of touch with their people they scoffed when told they would definitely vote leave. And, if they wanted a real shock, they should have given the vote only to those citizens who reside within our borders. Not to every Tom, Dick and Harry who claim allegiance. That would have added a snap to their necks. The only reason the vote was so close was, because, the foreigners within our realm decided they wanted the door to Grandma to stay wide open. This would ensure she had free health care when she made up her mind to quit her country of her birth, in order to expire with her nearest and dearest not having to travel ‘back home’ every two weeks. Making life impossible for them to claim British benefits without being accused of fraudulence.
So, all those who offer the side line of we must have a deal, its in our best interests, as those who voted didn’t know what they were voting for, are full of shi-ite. There was no deal intended from the offset. So leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is exactly what we British, in an unprecedented turn out, voted for.
I remember a nice humoristic song that says : if you rise a silly question you will get a silly answer. This is the situation we are in now. In UK we didn’t had good negotiators because the negotiation is within Tories and not with the EU institutions. In Brussels we had negotiators too much concentrated in giving a “good lesson” to others that could follow the British way. No deal is much worse than anything, for the British and for Europeans too. We have a lot of vital links that simply can’t be thrown away. We have to find even a minimal solution (so I would say a bad deal) but a fair agreement must be signed. But, again, any arrangement in this divorce will be a loose – loose deal, even if much more worrying for the British.
To be clear: ‘silly question and silly answer’ is not related to the question posed in this debate, but to the Brexit process!
A leading newspaper in UK prides and deludes itself mentioning brilliant points from Brexiteers and ridiculing remainers but this paper ignores the most brilliant remainer point- our nearest market is just 24 miles away as opposed to three thousand miles away in America ,which makes no economic sense leaving our biggest non tariff trading block – our EEC partners.
@Alfred Barrett
When did trading with a partner suggest you wanted to be under their rule? The UK is not happy being a colony or a vassal state to others. Never took to it and never became accustomed to it.
On the other hand, had we been the major movers and shakers, as in colonisers of the EU, with the overriding law making and general leader role emanating from our Parliament and not Brussels, all would have gone very well indeed. We, are extraordinarily good rulers, as well as traders and have what is called common sense, or, did have, then Europe today would have been an amazing economy. But, playing foolish games of one upmanship with German and French, so called neutralists, creating a chasm in our citizenry, there was no way it could get off the ground, in a real way. The way it should have. After all, we still have a ‘Royal’ standard. Once again, we are back to the basic human instinct of inbred cultural genetics. Sovereignty rules, okay! And all of that.
In fact the truth is, Europe did not exploit us in the right way. Had it done so, Europe would have taken off to heights only reached by ‘rocket men’ We are bred for it but we need acclaim. Not a union of snivellers whining in the wings at how they only sold out seats as a result of vain talent heading the cast list.
We have the talent of the bard, Europe should have used it for the sake of mankind as a whole. Read scene II in Henry V Act V where Henry woos Kate. That is the core of Englishmen. We are overwhelmingly generous, when loved.
BREXIT has been dragging too long and the best time to exit has already passed. In politics, one day is already too long. Two years ago, UK had recovered very well from the 2008 financial crisis. The influx of refugees appeared to be its only problem hindering its taking off. Today the US is aware of its decline and is trying to change the international order to its favour. A trade war in a global scale has started. The US has withdrawn from the Iran Nuclear Deal. Europe is subject to higher security threat. The US has waged a trade war against its European allies, however, continue to bully NATO member states to pay higher military budget. China’s global influence is growing. The Belt Road Initiative and the Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank are receiving more support. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization membership has grown. Russia has successfully expelled the US and the ISIS from Syria. The US had given the whole Jerusalem to Israel… It is a critical moment for the UK, EU and all states of the international society. New politics are playing. Under such a historical backdrop, the British people ought to have the right of another referendum so as to decide whether they want a reversion.
STOP BREXIT
Brexit is like trying to launch a broken rocket into the sky. It is not possible! A bad deal is like trying to repair the rocket by repainting it, but it is still broken – it was beyond repair from the very start. They just need to give it up – it is wasting precious time, energy and resources. How can people still believe that something so faulty can work?
Probably the best comment on here…
You cannot reason with a Tiger when your head is in its mouth. Winston Churchil. David Cameron tried to change the Undemocratic European Union from within but failed!!! Therefore we must change it from the outside NO DEAL!!!!
Of course it is, the word ‘bad’ is the clue 8|
.
And fools still believe the unelected European Politburo 8|
No deal is the best option.
Of course. It all depends on how bad is bad?
It turns out Brexit is the equivalent of 19 of the remain 27 countries leaving, its no wonder Comrade Juncker is worried lol 8|
No deal is not an option. I personally hope that the crumbling Little England will be drowned in mad
The way the question is formulated is very misleading. Why an alternative deal would necessarily be bad?
The Brits want all the benefits of a full membership without any of the obligations. There was no way they were going to get that.
And the notion of a country exiting a trading block while everybody else is trying to form bigger and bigger ones is just beyond weird and inbred.
The question should read, What is wrong with the Brits…
Any deal is better than no deal. This is why May is begging each individual country to have direct negotiations with her. She didn’t get it that people actually are in a trading bloc and want to remain part of it… No individual negotiations.. The Brits are stuck basically.
The European Commission has said the notification “cannot be unilaterally reversed”, suggesting it would at least need the backing of the EU’s 27 remaining member states. I believe that if #Britain asked Article 50 to be revoked it lose its rebate and a deal less favourable.
Brexit is a stupidity!
Could someone explain how ‘No deal’ could be voted on? Surely a ‘No deal’ means nothing to vote on.
Could someone explain how a ‘No deal’ can be voted on? Surely ‘No deal’ ends the discussion.
For some politicians apparently
No brexit is better than any deal… Just saying 😉
Anyway, the bill is taking a catastrophic proportion nowadays. Thank you to the worse pomitician class of all time, the needed european project is tearing down!
Plenty of agreements will need to be made fast if we get to a No Deal scenario. So perhaps the questions should be under which deal is Brexit better for UK. It’s quite obvious that some europeans are as sick of hearing about Brexit as are Brits. EU is under no obligation to provide any sort of friendly offer to country that has continuously tried to undermine the union. I feel sorry for UK’s younger generation as they may not have the benefits and opportunities that people now have.
There is no such thing as “no deal”…..in the absence of a bespoke agreememt, arrangements will have to be agreed covering dozens of issues….trade under WTO terms will be the least of the issues whilst we maintain all commom rules/regulations…but any deviation will have consequences.