What is human nature? Is it selfish? Or is it social? Maybe a bit of both? This seems to be one of the most fundamental questions when it comes to evaluating the philosophy and political system of Karl Marx. What exactly is human nature, and can it be changed?
Given that ‘post-capitalist’ ideas are growing more popular (particularly in Europe in the wake of the Great Recession), we’ve launched a series looking at the legacy of one of the most influential anti-capitalists in history: Karl Marx.
May 2018 will mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of Karl Marx, and February 2018 will be the 170th anniversary of the publication of the Communist Manifesto. To mark these dates, Debating Europe is launching a series of online discussions dedicated to examining the impact and legacy of Marx and his writings.
We had a comment from Eva, arguing that communism could never work in practice (at least, in a capitalism system). So, is communism just a nice idea that’s never been implemented properly? Or is the very notion flawed from the start?
To get a response, we put Eva’s comment to Vladimir Tismăneanu, Professor of Politics and Director of the Center for the Study of Post-communist Societies at the University of Maryland (College Park), and a prominent critic of Marxism. What would he say?
Eva makes a comment I hear quite frequently from my undergrads and graduate students, and I think we have to take it quite seriously. The communist project was fundamentally an economic, social, intellectual, moral, and civilisational project. The idea was not only to defeat capitalism economically, but to defeat capitalism and all the other previous social formulations, from slavery to the bourgeois domination; to create a new anthropological species. For Karl Marx, this was the mandate of the global proletarian revolution.
In his early writings, in his work ‘The Holy Family’, Karl Marx referred to the proletariat as the ‘messiah class of history’. This is the reason why, for instance, Yuri Slezkine, in his recent book ‘The House of Government’, insists on Bolshevism as a political religion. So, Karl Marx created a political religion meant to replace the Kingdom of Necessity through the Kingdom of Liberty. He basically thought that human nature can be fundamentally transformed, and here I find the major problem with the original Marxian project: the Utopian hubris at its core.
For another perspective, we put the same comment to Charles Post, Professor of Sociology at Borough of Manhattan Community College-CUNY. How would he respond?
If by ‘communism’ she means a non-capitalist economy, where there is collective social ownership of industry, commerce, etc., and there is a planned economy, I think, in fact, it can work. But there have to be two conditions, both of which were lacking in most of the societies that called themselves ‘socialist’ or ‘communist’.
The first is some level of material prosperity, so that people would have free time, etc. This didn’t exist in Russia in the aftermath of the Russian revolution, or in most of the countries that had experienced so-called transformations.
The other is that there has to be real democracy for working people. There has to be a multiplicity of political parties, free speech, free elections, etc. so that people can democratically discuss, debate, and correct planning decisions, etc. So, I think that the problem is that it was never implemented in societies where there was enough of a social surplus product that people had leisure time to engage in a really democratic political structure that has to surround any sort of socialist or post-capitalist world.
Next up, we had a comment from Tino, who thinks that Marx may have been wrong about the cure, but he at least diagnosed the disease correctly. Is that a fair assessment?
How would Professor Vladimir Tismăneanu respond? Obviously, he is a critic of Marx and his writings, but are there nevertheless some parts of Marx’s political philosophy that he finds himself agreeing with?
On the other hand, the pretence to have created a ‘science’, the pretence to epistemic infallibility, the pretence to have the ultimate answer to all the ultimate questions, makes Karl Marx’s ideas, at this moment, problematic.
Finally, what would Professor Charles Post say to Tino’s comment? Does he think Marx was correct about the diagnosis but wrong about the cure?
Could Communism ever work in practice? Is it a nice idea that’s never been implemented properly? Or is the idea flawed from the start? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their response!
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Yes, in ant farm.
Of course. People just need to stop be so egoistic. :D
Crazy ideologies that run completely contradictory to human nature will only create a crazy world.
There is no human nature. Only social constructs. And this is so easily proof-able. This human nature of yours seems to fail in different cultures and in different social settings seems to act in a different way.
Get a job. Money is not free
Biology doesn’t exist, new communist absurdity 😂
Yet, you seem to assume that exploiting other people’s labour is a job. :O
Guillem Martí Bou Biology exists, but somehow there is nothing biological in you wearing cloths, in you getting married, in you having laws, in you studying and so on. Somehow this human nature turns out to be a mere subject-object interpretation of your surroundings.
if you love your own children more than any other children, are you egoistic?
Kindly tell that to some indigenous people living at the post-neolithic level that their society doesn’t reflect human nature and it’s only a social construct. Instead they should follow the teachings of Marx, because Marx knows better.
****
Wow.. you’ve been seriously brainwashed somewhere.
Even societies of indigenous people have a complex cultural web of understanding the world. Go read some Charles Taylor for example. Nothing “Natural” there either. If knowing about what Im talking about is brainwashing, then probably it is. ;)
So what you’re saying is that the way to make it work is to brainwash everyone into “being less egoistic”. While this might be desirable (who are you to decide it, anyway?), it would still imply a massive top-down imposition of behaviours from a “moral State” (a State that decides what is good and what is bad). The idea sends shivers down my spine.
Alexander Tsankov Social interactions are fostered by chemicals produced by our bodies, so there is biology involved. Wearing clothes and getting married are very biologically based.
Oh yes, along with greedy, underhanded, mean, unfair, ambitious, etc. People essentially need to become incorruptable entities for Communism to work. Guess what? We’ll never reach this level. Communism is a utopian ideology that is only viable in theory.
I’m not trying to be confrontational, but that’s never going to happen. Ideologies like communism and anarchism wouldn’t work because people unfortunately are and always will be people.
It could work if people weren’t by nature selfish, conciously or subconsciously. Most people have a natural self preservation instinct that comes out as selfishness in many forms, most of which are mostly harmless.
This is for Alexander Tsankov: Humans do have a fundamental nature, one that can’t be changed. But that’s the beauty of it. Selfishness isn’t part of our nature. It’s a byproduct in a world gone mad on industry and societal constructs. To really glimpse true human nature, would be needing to view the tribes of old, before civilization. It worked back then due to smaller numbers, but really, most constructs of tribes was fairly similar to how communism would work: Elected leader, who had the ability to listen to his people. Not deem what is right and wrong, but work on solutions to better their tribe. If they needed more food, it was upto the leader to either move, scout new areas, or march on and hope. A leader isn’t one who decides for their people. A leader is one who listens to their peoples problems, and tries to come up with a solution by talking to them about it, something that most governments no longer have. That transparency.
Sorry to tell you but marriage isn’t a social construct
“Being kind and helpful can make us happier, give us a sense of purpose and meaning, and even lower our blood pressure. People across cultures seem to experience greater well-being when they help others, suggesting this may be a human universal.”
There are a lot of differences between cultures, very important to keep in mind. Some cultures reward somethings and other other things.
I think studying psychology, anthropology and neuroscience can be very helpful to understand if some system would work or not.
There’s a really good book called “The Strange Order Of Things” by António Damásio where he explains the emotions and consciousness, formation of culture, why do we have culture?
I think it’s a really good book and it gives an insight of how the human brain works and why we do the things we do
Seriously ? lol . Next you will be asking if National Socialism can ever work in practise.
You’re joking. They won’t EVER ask about it. NS ideology and System were completely different, you know. Just because they told so.
But it works. Look at systems in Denmark Norway Sweden Finland Germany they are all thriving
Basic point is greed in human beings now so many theories has evolved as a society we think we want bit of communiasam and a bit of socialisam and bit of capalistic ideas so that this mixed concepts work it will but not 100percent main aim of the state is to remove poverty to promote the free ideas to prevent the suppresion of underprevillaged no system is good enough to create a atmosphere as such because of greed
Replying to Yol, no. Sweden, Denmark and the other countries are not socialist. They’re very capitalist countries that use high taxes to invest in healthcare, pensions, child day care, and other things.
No
It doesen’t works neither in teory
It doesen’t works neither in teory
It doesen’t works neither in teory
But it works. Look at systems in Denmark Norway Sweden Finland Germany they are all thriving
Some of those ain’t even close. Some of those are capitalist governments that use money and high taxes towards other things. Learn man communism is great in theory but terrible in practice
Alexander Evans communism has never been practiced though
For the one hailing Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Germany as Communist, they’re all Capitalist countries that inherit Socialist aspects. They take the best of both worlds to develop a strong economy and society. Having an anti-capitalist system won’t ever work, and having an anti-socialist system won’t work either. You need a system that inherits the best of both worlds, which is what those listed countries do. They are text-book definition of Capitalist since they have free markets and such, but it doesn’t mean they’re anti-socialist either…
As for the one claiming that Communism has never been practiced, people from different cultures and societies have been consistently trying to do practice it for over a century. The fact that none of them are considered communist to you since they crashed and failed probably implies that it’s impossible. Just because something on paper seems logical doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to work. People are irrational and systems need to take that into account. Rational thinking would imply that dying for your father is stupid, yet here it’s considered heroic. Just because something seems smart or rational doesn’t directly correlate to possible due to all sorts of unpredictable factors regarding humans.
Nope. If you work hard and are smarter your should get more money. People are not the same thus don’t have the same. It’s only an Utopia that usally goes wrong.
The socialist principle of distribution (should) refers to an arrangement whereby individual compensation is reflective of one’s contribution to the social product (total output of the economy) in terms of effort, labor and productivity. This is held in contrast to the method of distribution and compensation in capitalism, where those who own private property receive unearned income in the form of interest, rent, or profit by virtue of ownership irrespective of their contribution to the social product.
I know that. Feel the same way about it. If someone has propriety, they worked for it or someone worked for it. I think people that have a certain amount of Fortune should get more taxes, but that’s about it for me. If people can’t make it they just can’t. We about re not all the same so we don’t have the same. That’s just the facts since forever. Even irrational animals weed out the weak.
The ability to gain property is defined by the economical system of your time and place. It’s not a natural law, so make sense those who aren’t favoured by the current economical system of their country would change it (manual labourers in western world or wannabe capitalists in socialist countries).
That’s some bullshit. I know plenty people came from nothing and now have millions. I’m sorry but be smarter work harder. Europe is designed for people to get a chance, if they don’t it coz they don’t have skills, that’s on them not on anybody else.
it’s far more complex than this “work hard make money” mentality. many people work their asses off for years and years, and barely scrape by, due to difficulty moving up due to capitalist ideals that give more benefits to those at the top. you also have to take into account a persons quality of life. in capitalist societies we have perceived communism to be an evil thing, but it isn’t. in history, communism has worked, but has been destroyed by capitalism. communism wont naturally fail, it will fail when capitalist ideals get put into the mix, and people feel as though they need to move up a corporate ladder, which is not true. without capitalism, communism will flourish
ΝΟΟΟΟΟ !!!!!
Shame ue
Yes
I think the people who apply different doctrines are the real problem, as you can see capitalism also it isn’t working. 1% of the population has reached 80% of the wealth so better start thinking.
The idea of 1% of the population having 80% of the wealth is a socialist myth that as been busted many times, please stop spreading fake news.
The idea that this is a socialist myth is equally valid in case i say that what you said is a capitalist myth so again start thinking with your brain and don’t copy/paste propaganda on social media
Munteanu Vlad Stefan
First rule of Socialism, ignore the truth.
Here is possibly the most intelligent man in the USA to explain it to you. Please educate yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi8clPrg7kc
thanks, it’s always good to see different perspectives
I agree that we all had better start thinking and I think we will. A spectre is certainly haunting the workers in Europe,and the rest of the capitalist world, it is the job destroying and as yet unimaginable effects of technology. This is an enormous contradiction, that highlights the problem of private ownership which introduces technology for profit, not to provide a better life for the masses.Could this contradiction turn thinking to making changes in at least some ownership of the means of production ?
1 percent has 80 percent of the wealth? So what? Do you think being rich is what everyone needs? Let the rich be rich . They hire people. One of the greatest joys is working hard to provide for ones family.
NO, OF COURSE NOT.
WE VE SEEN IT, LIVED IT FOR 50 YEARS.
IT S CRIMINAL, it destroys people, it makes prisons from any country
only because it was implemented wrong that was not the original concept
yeah, communism has never worked, but I don’t think it’s a great idea to completely eliminate its ideas. I think a combination of socialist and capitalist ideas would succeed very well (i.e healthcare, schooling, etc). Both on their own do not succeed, but the abolition of private property is definitely not a great idea (Marxism) while having people who own all of the wealth (capitalism) is also not amazing. I don’t think we’ll ever see a perfect system ever, but we can still make a sustainable one.
communism under Stalin certainly did. communism is a just and fair ideology in theory. but in the heavily materialistic modern world it is a breeding ground for charismatic demagogs.
Ahahahah gotta love the comments here ❤️
Maybe read the entire article and different views before commenting
Of course not. How many tries do you need to get it?
Communists murdered 100 million people. What was the question again?
How many millions should die the next time?
All the recent wars and the creation of the European bloc has Communism written all over them.
No it didn’t we are talking about the traditional form of communism, not Russian communism.
When you send everyone that says it not works to the camps and feed their dead bodies to the pigs (real story from Bulgaria commies re-educational camps) Large amount of population start to says it works even they are starving at the moment …
The same kint of “educasion” was given to the western block also..here in greece you could and up on a island full of scorpions (giaros) just for been a reletive to a comunist..or a socialist ..or anyone that wasnt a “royalist”.. The cold war
That,s why we should oppose any authorian regime political spectrum is like compass (i cannot post pictures here) not only left and right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass#/media/File:Political_chart.svg
Could christianity work in practice?islam?Could any idiology ever work in real life?
Idiology🤦♀️
Communism was never practiced. We didn’t go further than advanced socialism.
Examples of communism are most of the future fiction books and movies, Star Trek for instance. Every person has his role and position in society. Technology is very advanced. Everybody is highly educated and posess high moral. Everybody eats the same amorphous junk.
I agree but i don’t it was possiple to reach that level during the 20th century
Communism, Socialism, Marxism, National Socialism = Cancer.
You’re boring. This is just the last post in a row of offtopoc nonscientific hate posts of yours. Society technology is a scientific discipline especiaaly from the distance of time and knowledge. At the next instance of the same nonsense I will block you.
Except star trek isn’t communist or socialist, it has private companies and businesses. Private Property still exists in that universe.
Yes.
Communism requires abundance, so incredibly high productivity. With automation we are slowly getting there, but we are not quite there yet.
No profit and wealth comes from risk of investment and hard work without capitalism there is no development
Its ideal… but not practical. That is why communism in Europe collapsed.
Communism is still the idea and aspiration of the future. The first phase, socialism, started in Soviet Union and it was sabotaged by the the rich in the west who don`t want to loose the wealth they have accumulated by exploiting other people This has given them the economic and political power and privileges which they are afraid they will; loose in a different system. This is why they portrayed communism as a ghost. Like any other system based on exploitation of man by man, capitalism will have to be destroyed as people will strive and aspire for equality, for justice. The only system that would grant that to people is communism. It may look as an utopia but this what everything has been for the humanity. They have first dreamed and then put their dreams into reality. This will be a long journey, with ups and downs, will take decades and generations but it will definitely happen. The more the gap between rich and poor widens, the quicker that dream will come through. It is for the new generation to widen their studies and get more involved in politics and not waste their time and talent on drugs, alcohol etc.
Ideal? That everyone has the same. Crazy. No rewards for work, enterprise? Rewards for laziness and stupidity?
Paul Anthony Browne that is why I said its not practical
Yes. Although in terms of the Eu, no.
An interesting debate here ….
Basil Aliftiras this is a debate for you!
It is, but tbh I’ve quit arguing with random people over the internet many years ago. If I had the free time for it, I’d gladly spend it debating, but I don’t. I’ve bookmarked it for some reading(and perhaps posting as well) during coffee time! :)
I cannot believe people ask something that has been tried so many times, if it happens I will be contrary all my life, I will boycott that system by giving the less effort possible in the mansion they will give to me, and for shure I will not be alone, nobody works for others willingly and with no better economic treatment.
Typical selfish and characterless speech.
I am selfish cause I am human, but you seem to believe to be different, so what are you doing not for yourself?
Thomas edison attempted to create the light bulb over a thousand times but he got it right.
Why do you have to ask…demonstrably no
Casper
Geen idee, het is toch nog nooit geprobeerd? :”) #sarcasm #idiots #communismeiswelgeprobeerddewalgelijkemensenrechtenschendingendiezogenaamdeenabberatiezijnhorenbijhetsysteemdaaromgebeurenzeookinelkeniederlandwaarcommunismegeproveerdis
Oh Good Grief!
Short answer: no long answer: definitely no
Communism, Socialism, Marxism, National Socialism = Cancer.
You forgot to add capitalism
Yes, in Star Trek. When we’ll have replicator technology and unlimited energy from antimatter annihilation. Until then, capitalism’s the only solution.
but even then, they still have private companies and property so is it really communism.
Just hope we will be asking ourselves same question about liberalism some day.
No. No. And no. Only in the delusional fantasies of dumb idealogues
Is KKKapitalism working for those without capital?
Did KKKomunism work out for anybody outside the oligarchy?
You should have ask this question before the communism collapsed, not now, Now is to late.
If you want to see Communism “working in practice” watch the Killing Fields. After that you will know what a stupid question this is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcdqK0GfbQ8
Never. Is a utopic sistem.
Communism, the classless ideal, gets defeated time and again by human nature, and in the process even defeats itself. Because of human nature, large societies cannot trust individuals to do the “right thing” and stick with the program. Many people will equally share resources out of the goodness of their hearts, but many others will not. So you need a strong government to enforce this classless equality unto those who stray from the ideal. And therein lies the problem:
1. Such a government is put in place to essentially counter human nature, but it is itself subject to it. Which is why this goverment will invariably sooner or later succumb to corruption and abuse of power. A pitfall not a single incarnation of communism in the history of this planet has ever managed to avoid.
2. The moment you put a government in place, you essentially create an elite with a monopoly on violence and distribution of resources. Which itself is a class. Which immediately defeats your attempt for a classless society.
Communism may sound good if you don’t think about it, once you do think about it there is just no way it would ever work without bringing all kinds of misery with it.
Communism described by Karl Marx will never work since it is utopia from the writer, it only “works” as a dictatorship, example Chine, Russia, though Russia will not admit it is a dictatorship, you can hardly call it a democracy, and last but not in the least N Korea
Utopian systems do not work. They are good academic excercises, but can not work in practice. We can pull some good ideas from communism, but that is about it.
Human ADN is indestructible!
That’s like asking if could cancer ever work in practice…
The problem with communism is that it pretends to be something different than it really is in practice. Perhaps all ideologies do it. The crimes were committed to eliminate people who hindered “progress”.
Communism is not only a political order but a critical perspective on capitalist economies. So the relevant question for now is not if it works in practice, but how socialism could re-define the economy without overthrowing the whole system. Thus, the question is a shortcoming, leading to inappropriate dichotomous answers, while in fact a truly progressive answer would settle between the poles of course.
Communism can actually work. You just have to enslave a whole generation in order for those who are within the system to prosper and enjoy the fruits of communism. A perfect example is the EU. Millions of young people condemned to be single for life, with no possessions, with no future, destined to work for peanuts so the local political mafia and their bosses in Brussels can earn up to 25.000 per month. EU = Communism.
Communism doesn’t have money in it ;)
What about food coupons and rubbles?
What a bunch of crock. You pampered, spoilt-rotten children have prosperity and comfort beyond the wildest dreams of your ancestors AND 90% of the world’s current population. Your problems are created by your selfishness and laziness, not the EU which makes your prosperity possible.
Hey Mauricio, if Europe brought prosperity then why are your country’s birthrates so low? Italy won’t exist in a few years. Why so many young people without jobs, property, chances to start a family? You can stick EU prosperity in the part of your body where the sun never shines!
Nick Komselis you have no idea how communism works since you have never lived in one. Low birth rate is actually caused by capitalism and living in cities not communism.
Mauricio Giordanelli I agree with you.
So the babyboomers lived in a non capitalist society? That alone contradicts your theory.
Come live in my country: Venezuela. Tell me how good its working. Oh wait, i’m sure you will say :” that’s not communism”
We tried. No.
this question was certainly posed by someone who never lived in a communism.
Depend how you try to implement it: if you use authoritarian way it won’t work. If you think we have to gain all the same it won’t work.. If you think we can have equality as value, that workers lead the production, if you think we shall redistribute wealth and corporations and banks can’t rule our lives then some way communism will work. Capitalism is working for us, but it isn’t working for the other 2/3 of the world
Whoever thinks it,should change galaxy right now..
Where?
Why this (unproductive) obsession with “ancient” European belief systems- as “Marxism” has become? Such discussion just remain “academic”!
Nothing else or better to do?
Similarly:
* what are the probabilities and effects if France or Germany (or any EU member) would become the first Islamic Republic in Europe?
* probabilities and which of these systems could destroy any of today’s evolved democratic dispensations: Capitalism, Communism, Marxism, Islamism, non religious-ism, Euro-ism……….. or which other- ism?
http://time.com/3671514/islam-europe/
Could communism ever work in practice?
It has and does.
https://www.thoughtco.com/communist-countries-overview-1435178
However, a good socialist, welfare state for all is the optimum. As long as those at the top are not bent and constantly on the fiddle. As we see today. Take the British example after WWII. The welfare state worked very well indeed.
It began to create unrest when it turned from good will toward all men, to absurd demands and greed.Today, under Globalist rule, the civilisation we once had is disintegrating. Health, education, transport, finance, welfare of the people and so on. Politicians have created a free for all of lets rob everyone. It doesn’t matter where you go to spend your money, or, to gain a service, the fiddle begins from the minute you put your foot in the door. The roads are a shambles, potholes as big as canyons, hidden charges, no service at all once you hand over your money. All without the back up of justice and the rule of law. As that is no longer affordable they tell us.
It has become so horrendous we see the hidden failures in government lead to outright treason against the people who elected them. Which creates a society afraid to speak out and by so doing correct the errors. The existence of which is of course denied. The direct cause of this catastrophe is lack of true leadership. Inadequate, or, can we call it ‘fake,’ premiership. Visionless individuals placed in office way beyond their ability to administrate. It is now simply from the onset a pretence of leadership. Ideologists who have no genuine commitment to the message they spout. No solid background or intellect to command respect and genuinely inspire a population to follow their prescience.
Listen to these guys and note the difference in the world we have today. Some leaders you follow to your demise because they were or are genuine leaders of a people. Others leave you feeling physically sick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOQwa73KXbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fkKnfk4k40
This is exactly the conclusion I’ve come to after spending my twenties as an anarchist, observing politics and governments in all of their forms.. When they worked, when they didn’t, and why..
You’re not mistaken, communism has worked in this way.. Because Britain, after WWII, is the only real example I can think of as well, and that can’t be coincidence. If you look at the very state of the US today, this form of communism is exactly the type of middle ground that the majority of Americans wish for.. It provides the majority of the types of reform many people demand now.. Jobs and offices formed to keep politics and social systems in check, investigation and removal/replacement of criminal politicians.. More taxes for the rich directly being put to use in creating social safety nets for workers and the impoverished, as well as social programs to get the impoverished working and capable. Healthcare for all, which goes hand in hand with these social programs to take care of this problem we have with the mentally ill converging in major places of business to live off of the scraps of society..
It can work, but it’s going to take a lot less money being invested in the war machine, and money sinks that generate cash for private parties, and instead invested in to these programs to get our government and public operating at a healthy pace again…
We’re all emotionally tired, and feel hopeless, meanwhile we have these people in office OBVIOUSLY not doing their jobs correctly, and being human, they’re tired both physically and emotionally as well.. Many have skeletons in the closet and the stress is killing them.. They’re sweating, and all they want to do is play golf and take painkillers and just forget about work and the possibility of winding up in prison.. until someone points the finger again, and then it’s all defense again.. I’m not opposed to these people being pardoned if they’re willing to admit what they’ve done and step down.. I think we need a lot of reform and forgiveness, I think a lot of people need to be given a second chance.. We have far too many prisoners, and that’s another sinkhole that a lot of money has been put in to, and for what..? That’s another political MESS… And a public failure!
My hope is in the bright and young minds of tomorrow, hopefully they remain open..
I think the most common mistakes in these sort of discussions is that Socialist ideals must mean only Socialism and Capitalist ideals must mean only Capitalism.
The reality is that Socialist aspects can thrive in Capitalist countries, as seen in Norway. There’s a needed balance to obtain the best of both worlds.
I guess another sort of question is what do they mean by “Does Communism work?” I bring this up because you list China as a successful Communist country, yet the amount of freedom in there is horrific. There’s a reason why Hong Kong doesn’t like China. And don’t forget that the social credit system demands its citizens to be little ant slaves for its government, with encouraging to put government in front of friends and family. In any case where you have to put government first, it’s not a truly free state. China does succeed at being a functional state, but it doesn’t succeed at being a good state for its citizens.
And you tend to praise the British welfare system, but guess what? That can exist in a Capitalistic country. As stated earlier, Socialist aspects can live in Capitalistic systems, which is proven by Norway. Norway has strong welfare, but free markets and taxes the rich less than the United States does to its rich.
Also, your claim that Globalist rule is ruining the world is far from true. The average American citizen has been far wealthier than they have ever been in history. I’ll agree that Health Care is expensive here, but that can be fixed by a good socialist input in our still Capitalistic country.
And yes, I’ll agree that the people in office are horrible at their job. But what are you going to do? Give more power to the people who are downright bad at their job? That’s what Communism does. It always has and will always transfer from power from the people to the government. And even in Communist systems, there can still be corruption.
The reality is that the corruption is independent of whatever system you have. There is, however, a way to amplify it, and that’s with too much power: “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” However, that doesn’t mean just removing the role is justifiable, because you still need a balance of chaos and order. Humans started lawless and naturally gravitated towards a system with government because it was needed, the only issue is we’re still figuring out how much is needed.
So far, it hasn’t.
No way.I was raised in worst european communist regime. .
100 million dead world wide suggest no. Of course it’s always the fault of the victims as to why it did not work.
Let’s try it again! Who is the first to be executed?
Could capitalism ever work in practice?
Let’s use history as a scientific lab… And the answer is…. nope.
Let’s use history as a scientific lab… And the answer is…. nope.
Let’s use history as a scientific lab… And the answer is…. nope.
No it’s just disgusting if you believe in democracy
No, because people are shitheads
Were will the EU gulag be located? Great idea to get rid of all the anti-EU dissidents, in the name of EU.
It does, but not under a dictatorship
Noone can really say. Communism never existed. What everyone calls Communism, is what the self proclaimed dictators labelled themselves.
absolutly not,
and as we saw in Sweden, not even Social-Democracy wil work.
Only very small and isolated populations can go close to it
No. No utopian society can work, there will always be someone trying to get above the others. This is true both for “ideal” communism as for “ideal” capitalism.
Best commemt I’ve read In this post!!
No it doesn’t work, just like capitalism, wich enriches te already rich ones and ruins our planet . Extremes are never good. Best is a mix between liberalism and socialism. I prefer conservative socialism. I as socialist am sick of the progressive nonsence most socialist parties tell. Yes I want a good social security, a fair tax system where the rich pay more, and good rights and protection for workers. But I also want a strong justice- and anti-immigrant policy.
No. EU should aim to become a hub for big trade deals, not Big Government
There is no consensus of what a communist is.
(very similar to words like antisemitism which can mean anything).
democracy (the West is not a Democracy).. representative “democracy” is just domination of elite pretend to give you freedom.
communism (Stalin was not a communist).. communist cant really exist outside of small tribes, communals. why so many of them were tribe members should
Stalin was revolutionary, then changed to authoritarian national socialist (at least since 1935ish onward)..
Hitler was revoluionary, then authoritarian national socialist (until he adopted more corporate practices right before the war).
Lenin and Trotsky revolutionary international socialists (funded and supported by the West capitalists of a certain tribe).
You also get the Fabian Socialists (russel, hgwells, webbs).
Marx and Engels disagreed on some issues. etc, etc.
no, it can’t work! its nature and willing to equalize and normalize is against the human nature, it’s just good for greysh bureaucrats without spark or genius.
NOOO
The best way to be talked out of your retarded ideas about communism is to actually talk to an eastern European or a north Korean. But on the other hand could Nazism work in practice? Why don’t you shove up your ass conversations about ideologies that in practice killed more that 100 m people? Reported / unlike. Idiots!
Not in a million years.
No way whatsoever it could work.
This kind of utopia killed over 100 million people, so I don’t think it even requires any further discussion.
Short answer: NO. While a socialist society might work as long as education is put as a #1 priority, communism itself doesn’t at all.
There are 3 problems with the principle of communism:
1) Shared property as opposed to private property. It doesn’t encourage the evolution of the best to the top. In 90% of the scenarios, the best in any field are rewarded by society with a disproportionate amount of money and that results in ownership. Why work harder if you’re getting the same results? It’s a simple problem of carrot vs. stick.
2) Dictatorship. Even assuming good intentions, leadership should always be limited in time. As the leadership pyramid is incredibly tall at those levels there is a tendency to be out of touch with the real needs of the society. At the psychological level, the population that they’re supposed to lead and serve tends to be seen as a resource, and eventually an expandable resource once you have to deal with the opposition.
3) Single Party system. While in definition, this is the closest system to a desirable technocracy, eventually due to human nature politics always wins over qualification.
Capitalism also has the problem of transferring all the wealth to an incredibly small group of people, but this can be mitigated by attacking inheritance and intellectual property. If everyone starts equal and gets equal chances, market economy should work for everyone.
Communism probably never. Let’s focus on something close but with some liberty: socialism. Even so, socialism would require a very evolved, educated and characterful people to function. That and a great deal of government and finance transparency. Such utopia is miles away in any part of the world, since the mass is made of complete spineless and selfish morons. Some Nordic countries and Australia, while not exectly socialist, have some serious social state (with heavy taxation) dwelling peacefully with economic liberties. So far this is the best the planet has. The rest is all amoeba.
No ideological solution for human troubles. Everything that generates political power can generate money, and both power and money generate corruption and abuse; and totalitarian systems (along with non totalitarian ones where the disliked opinions are forcefully silenced) are per definitions the easiest ones for the leaders to abuse with.
Even those positive things that came in time attributed to ideological movements, happen actually more because of technological/ technical development than because of ideologies.
Even the already existing core traditions and mentality is more important in a given population than the varying political or social ideologies.
When you look at China, the second largest economy in the world (soon to be first), it seems that it works. Also Vietnam is not doing that bad, I think. As in every country, it depends on how clever those in power are. The main difference between communist and democratic systems is the right to choose who will rule the country. People in communist countries don’t have that choice. China has succeeded because it has adapted its communist system to modern times. So, it all depends on how shrewd the leaders are. If one follows purely an ideal, then they get detached from reality and the attempt ends in failure. But if they give importance to the practical necessities that naturally arise in a society and use that as a guide and path to reaching the ideal, then they might succeed.
I think the main mistake of communism is to think that love, equality and higher morals can be forced on people, rather than left to develop naturally. USA is making the same mistake when trying to force democracy on other countries. It will always fail. Good cannot be forced, it has to be allowed to come out by itself.
China has capitalist zones which keep the economy afloat mow and Vietnam allows private enterprise so they arent communist or Socialist. Not to mention that China is now stagnating.
No.
As people are different, even if complete equality of access to resources was accomplished at some point somehow, it would not last, unless it is somehow enforced. Then the ones enforcing it are not equals to the ones they are enforcing it upon. Therefore equality of access to resources is impossible.
It should. Has / Is Capitalism (been) any better?
Yes, it most certainly has been. Way better.
No ,never again!
İt didn’t and will never!
betwen robots yes humans not so much
I always thought the kibbutz system was true communism
You don’t know yet???? NEVER
NO, OF COURSE NOT…………………………………………………..
The point is that it hasn’t.
Nop
Communism is a form of tyranny, like Fascism, the Divine Rule of Kings, and to a lesser degree the EU and the current US Democrat hydra.
The value of a Republic, like the USA, is that elections can throw out such tyrannical
constructs. President Trump is doing a great job in restoring the correct constitutional position. Hopefully, the Democrats will look inward and remove all left-wing influence, communists included.
For Europe, a republic will cater for the widest range of political voices, both left and right, with the extremes peripheral.
If communism if the perfect equalitarism, then it may function only if the resources are are more than ehough for all the people… Maybe if robots will do all the work in the future, the wealth will be divided to “all men” cause they are all born equal…
Absolutely! Look at North Korea…they seem to doing great. There was a very practical Communism in Europe just few years ago. It was fantastic. Stalin was the best I think …he practically killed 20 million people. So yea , bring back Communism!
The eu is trying and it will collapse
??? How is the EU imposing communism?
Martijn same taxation they want same time zone and want one size fits all.
10/29/2018 Miapetra Kumpula-Natri, a social democratic MEP from Finland, has responded to this comment.
10/29/2018 Michael Downing, author of the book Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time, has responded to this comment.
Martijn By refusing to listen to the people it claims to represent, by being governed by an unelected European Politburo, by order Nations not to hold votes & referendums, by punishing Nations for not doing as the unelected ruling elite tell them to do, by centralising power in the hands of a few unelected bureaucrats, etc, etc …
Yes if we ban the monetary system
NO! I do not want to be “equal” or “part of a collective”. I want to be left alone and my rights respected!
The question is if you think this system can function properly on a society, nobody asked you which socioeconomic system suits you most.
To idio Mr. Giagkos Drakos
Γιάγκος It’s very simple.
Socialism is the belief that the rights of the collective are paramount.
Capitalism is the belief that the rights of the individual are paramount.
The goal of socialism is communism. – Vladimir Lenin
I read the communist manifesto when I was 16. I thought I needed to read a book that has influnced the thought of so many people. I felt that each word was written with hatred. Hatred is bad news. Europe is a continent made of many states. I believe if it had worked for USSR and the rest of the Balkan States it would have proved itself.
the same. i perceived terrible hate in that manifesto.
The Communist Manifesto definitely gets loved more than it ever should be. Marx is calling for a bloody and violent revolution, which should never be the case. No one should ever trust a person who thinks bloodshed is justified since all they will do is lead you to a pile of skulls.
Nelson Mandela and Gandhi both prove that if you wish to overthrow something horrific, peace is the most impactful and effective way to do it.
Communism????Such a joke!!!!!!
It s really a bad joke . Amd the problem is that the communists are laughing..
D’oh no. It’s an ideology that fights against human nature and an ideology that over all is not about equality if you really look it through.
Teach!!! Miltos Thomas
Δεν υπάρχει δεν μπορώ, υπάρχει δε θέλω
There’s no I can’t, there’s no
Όταν αλλάξουν μυαλά, ίσως και να γίνει γίνει. Δύσκολα όμως όταν όλες οι χώρες βασίζονται στους θεσμούς (Τρόικα) και κάνουν ότι αυτοί τις διατάζουν. Ή όταν οι μεγαλύτερες χώρες υποτάσσουν τις μικρές χρησιμοποιώντας τα οικονομικά μέσα.
When they change minds, maybe it will. It is difficult, however, when all countries are based on the institutions (Troika) and do what they are ordered to do. Or when the larger countries subjugate the small ones using financial means.
Λένιν, βγες από τον Θωμά !!!
Lenin, get out of Thomas!!!
Are you sure ? chausesku proved you wrong…
nope
communism denie human nature
EVERY form of ruling denies our nature ;) We often forget what our nature is, probably coz it hurts too much to make that realisation thst we’re mere animals in the greatest zoo ever built. Same logic aplies to preservation of environment…I woukd never litter in the forest..that’s environment, but in the city..i couldn’t give a f..k…it’s not environment..it’s a gray patch of awfullness in the middle of real environment…at it’s best.
Theoretically it might work… practically – it never will. It is a very rational system that contradicts the natural irrationality of the human being, which makes the system itself anti-human and thus – unsustainable.
Well worded, friend. Rational systems aren’t always right. There’s lots of things about humans that make no sense that no rational-based system can predict. Rationally, dying for your father would be stupid yet here it’s considered heroic.
Every horrible government in history has claimed its system was based off science. From the Nazis to the USSR’s Communist regime.
Maybe someday. We are still not evolved enough.
To have a communist based society first prerequisite would be free and infinite source of energy.
Problem with equality and making enough of everything for everybody is that resources on this planet are very limited.
Solving at least the energy component od the problem would make initial condition for making a global planed economy that is not grounden in profit and perosnal gain, but in sustainable economy that provides for all.
This situation where few % od population controls 80% of global wealth is also very unjust, and it wont last much longer. Rebellion is bound to happen.
Evolved enough for what? For Gulag?
I think some people wouldn’t bother loose richness for a simpler life style and a lot of the people in the world that are poor can only benefit from redistribution. Rebellion could happen in the “once rich countries” , just for the will of getting what was given. But once new generation would get use to the new society, I hope it would be fine
What you wrote does not make sense. What do you want to evolve to? You must understand the simple life principle, which is that some people are just more gifted than others (mentally, physically etc.); some are less tempted to hurt others; some are willing to risk more or sacrifice more. We are all different. Not the same. And therefore some people earn more than the others.
Communism has a lot of flaws, but the major one in context of your point about economics is, that if people are not motivated to work, then the economy is not going to work and prosper. That’s what communism does. It demotivates people to do extra work, because they will never earn what they deserve.
i disagree. i think communism cannot ever work because its principle goes against the very human nature. no, we are not equal. yes, we want our personal effort recognized. yes, humans need constant progress and that doesn’t come with the centralization of economy.
First dilemma of communism – what to do with these who do not want to be communists. They will ruin equal rights system, taking everything what others produce for free.
So, at first they need to be eliminated.
Definitely not.
People are different. We have different abilities, different talents, different priorities, different worldviews. Given those differences, achieving equality is an oxymoron.
More than that, even restricting equality to the “access to resources” domain, given the differences among the members of any society, it can be achieved only by severe repression. This, again, is a second oxymoron, because the ones who are called upon to enforce the repression are, by definition, not equal to all the rest. QED.
Communism is a doubly self-contradictory system. Good riddance.
Communism needs people being like ants, no individual will or acting, but only playing the given role, if everybody gives his best it would work, but communism is about flattening people and denying individuality.
IT MAY NEVER WORK
Why would anyone give their best? There is no motive to do so. Communism had better stay in history as an example of how not to build an economy.
Nope. We should rather invest our energy and brainpower in fixing the faulty parts of current capitalism and democracy.
rau e ca am ajuns o colonie a occidentului. nu mai producem nimic.traim din consum.economia a fost distrusa ,resursele date pe nimic. nu avem nici un cuvant de spus alti decid pt. noi. intrarea in NATO si UE nu a fost hotarata printr-un referendum ci impusa. Cum ar fi ca si noi statele mici din estul europei sa impunem germaniei si frantei reguli, distrugerea ec. lor si multe altele.sa nu discutam de conducatori ca nici De Gaulle sau Churchill nu au fost usa de biserica. daca vrei exemplificam.
Evil is that we’ve become a colony of the west. We’re not producing anything. We live from consumption. The economy has been destroyed, resources given on nothing. We don’t have a word to say. US. Entering NATO and the EU was not determined by a referendum but imposed. Like us small states in Eastern Europe to impose on Germany and France rules, destroying EC. Them and many more. Let’s not discuss leaders like de gaulle or Churchill weren’t the church door. If you want example.
Of course not. Communism always has caused, misery, repression and death when it has been implemented. Always.
100 Million of deaths. Just make the question is horrible.
Unlike capitalism? Just make the question too.
Both systems dont work. Communism theoretically would be more equal for everyone. However, it is easier to live in a world that tells you that one day with your effort you will reach your whims and dreams, while you are accepting a slave work and at the same time for instance the clothes you buy are made by children in Bangladesh.
Equality requires that we all have equal IQ and a low one at that. Robots might enjoy communism and lazy people, but the free thinkers, designers, scientists and those who seek to reach the stars, never will. There is no such thing as equality and now that Europe has turned into Babylon it can only be attained by force of law and throwing free speech out the window.
The +160 million dead because of Communism | Socialism | Marxism | National Socialism would suggest no, it can never work in practice. Reality won’t stop the lunatics trying again though.
160 million
Marian-lucian 6 million dead Ukrainians alone proves you wrong comrade & that’s not including the other 150 million dead because of communism.
no and never
How many more have to die so that you finally realize that it will never work?
intre 3-6 milioane de indieni au murit in 1943 de foame in India.ChurChill i-a lasat sa moara de foame.oare cate sute milioane de oameni au murit in coloniile engleze? dar franceze? .cum au fost decimati indieni nativi in america de nord?. cate zeci de milioane de victime a facut inchizitia? cate zeci de milioane de victime a facut sclavagismul? sa fim corecti. occidentul are multe sute de milioane de victime pe constinta.
Between 3-6 million Indians died in 1943 hunger in India. Churchill let them starve to death. How many hundred million people died in English colonies? What about French? How were native Indians in North America?. How many tens of millions of victims did the inquisition? How many tens of millions of victims made slavery? Let’s be fair. The West has many hundreds of millions of victims on their conscience.
This question makes sense for those Western leftist who never experienced in practice this nonsense. There is no equality in communism, only other type of forces in control, with the same lack of management skills. The lack of productivity and engagement creates shortcomings that are hard to understand for people sitting in their comfortable chairs in the West. Try to live without electricity, hot water, basic foods supply, afraid that the secret police could arrest you for some bad joke at a beer with friends.
Hell no !!!
Communism is the worst form of oppression, abuse and destruction
Any concept depends on head.
Well nothing really works capitalism is the same thing you just have to look at the world today the biggest capitalist countries are killing people all over the world. We need a little of every system. We need more socialism to have more balance cause what we have today is world ruled by the elites that despise the poors treating them as dogs with smile on there face. China as a a two ways system and its the biggest economy in the world.
COULD E.U WORK FOR PEOPLE? ??
I SUPPOSE NOT ✊✊
Of course not.
Marian-lucian Gheorghiu What has that got to do with Communism comrade ?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBuav5-pg9ufQ9177Ny9dH3IeldFRVOhYoZus2uz7FD3D5_VoC
Every ideology aims at gaining the support of the majority of people and thus getting power by its leaders. A rational economy can not be guided by ideology if it is to succeed.
NO WAY! Liberalism is the answer ! but not of that stupid belgian guy the puppet!
All the totalitarian regimes are against human rights . Nazism communism etc are really related and they perceive humans as expendables
They are not related, nazism is not a theory or an opinion, it s the crime itself.
Vagelis Sar are you sure it s not a theory . It s nationalism allied with socialism and it s as bad as coomunism . Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ( nobel prize winner ) survived 7 years in a gulag and exposed how bad communism is
Inevitable
crap never worked.
never will work
On a short term it can work. And it did in several countries. But when existing resources are depleted the communism fails on R&D. Why ? Because human creativity must be stimulated, motivated and cherrish. And egalitarism is not stimultating, motivating or rewarding any innovator. Communism is resilient to competition and deny changes. This is not a longterm success story as proved everywhere in the world where communism was implemented on various cultural background.
No.
Just dont.
We tried it. It never worked anywhere. It meant that all people were unfairly poor.
People must understand the simple life principle, which is that some people are just more gifted than others (mentally, physically etc.); some are less tempted to hurt others; some are willing to risk more or sacrifice more. We are all different. Not the same. And therefore some people earn more than the others…
Communism has a lot of flaws, but the major one in context of economics is that if people are not motivated to work, then the economy is not going to work and prosper. That’s what communism does. It demotivates poeple to do extra work, because they will never earn what they deserve.
Case study: Czech Republic. Between 1st and 2nd world war, we were one of the richest countries in the world per capita, on place 7. Then communism came and where we found ourselves after 40 years? On like place 50.
Please convince me that this does not justify communism as a bad choice.
people actually want it, but it never worked to this day. blockchain technology might bring it back though.. https://themarketmogul.com/blockchain-ideology-fighting-global-poverty/
What do you think about mining being ecologically unreliable?
e parerea unui om care se face vinovat de moarte a milioane de oameni in coloniile marii britanii.ce a insemnat colonialismul britanic? moarte a zeci de milioane de oameni.
It is the opinion of a man who is guilty of death of millions of people in Britain’s colonies. What did British colonialism mean? Death to tens of millions of people.
NO, definitely not! It’s a joke for those with not much brain!
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
And capitalism, paved with gold for the very few while the rest of us walk on hot coals:)
No it is a totalitarian way to rule. It has nothing to do with an open society. It is so sad that today in the e.u. we see unellected bureaucrats treat the people of the e.u. as numbers. This situation reminds us how far are we from a true democracy
LOL…in practice? So, you mean it hasn’t been practiced yet? LOL
No. It hasn’t. What you’ve heard called “Communist” regimes in the past are authocratic dictatorships. By definition NOT Communist. I believe it’s impossible for humans to create a society in which there’s no leadership soi also believe that communism is impossible.
Communism is romantic materialistic dreams—-without great human quality every ism or social theory is contradictory —–
Nope, next.
Is that a question?
As a Philosophy teacher said to me a long time ago: “Communism will work if we reset our minds. If we have the sense of property, communism will never work”.
Could nazism ever work????!!!! What kind of question is that!!!!
Chiapas and Rojava are working, today. Check it out.
There is no “good” version of communism. Every country that implemented communism targeted political opposition and their supporters. That is a recipe for civil war. That is an implementation of totalitarian regime at expense of the masses. While they confiscated private property have driven masses into famine and deaths for tens of millions. Why would anybody ever want that for western world? Especially since European nations might have our disagreements on how to run individual countries. Just there is no desire to have any conflicts over it between each other. People are more productive when they get to use benefits of their contribution. While competition drives innovation and improvements. That is what is needed to create new technologies that are wanted. That is the only thing that western world in general can do improve its GDP. It doesn’t matter whether someone might have good intentions or not. If situation drives necessity to implement forced labor and imprisonment of those that can’t meet their quotas then that is exactly what would happen again. Those that can’t do enough are then sent to prisons to serve as example for rest of population. Those better be sufficiently bad to give proper incentive. After that comes control of information cause people can’t know that there are better ways to do things. So comes total control over media. This is also what creates need to create iron curtains to keep populations trapped in order to protect domestic production. Worse it is more threats are needed to make sure that nobody will try to escape. While those that try to escape are then shot at borders. Those are practices that are still implemented in North Korea today. For rest of communist countries. They all did this at some point in history. So really what exactly would be different this time?
Your very long-winded explanation proves one thing: no true Communist society has ever existed. Then again, I think it’s impossible for such a society to exist.
Could shooting people from assault rifle in hope of giving them superpowers ever work in practice?
Would you ever post a debate “could fascism ever work in practice?” I doubt.
Many millions died and even more suffered because of communism.
Your debate is highly disrespectful and offensive.
A big sod-off to all post-marxist idiots!
millions are suffering under rampage capitalism
Have you ever heard of the concept: balance?
The answer to one form of extremism is not another form of extremism. All forms of extremism are harmful to society and eventually kill people.
Hr Tom who is?
The form of communism that eventually resulted in the deaths of millions was its most scandalized and well known form “soviet communism” they are not exclusively discussing this embodiment of the political ideology.
Always someone wanting a privileged elite..
Communism is rather hard when you have capitalist superpowers waging war over trade routes and natural recourses. Private property, hierarchial governments and consolidated power are making any better alternative to life impossible.
Is computer/smartphone you’re writing this comment your own?
Rajmund, and what?:)
We can learn from Chiapas and Rojava, for example
So this is private property you’re criticizing.
That’s correct.
Wartime governments shouldn’t be used as successful examples since they dont actually do much governing and have little administrative power.
Are you guys for real? Next question.
NO. in romania comunists killed around 2 million. how can it work, and for whom? Also, destroyed all the social values
Roser hasta la UE se vuelve commie
in small communities it does.
Only when they leech of the government though. like slab city which relies on welfare and a nearby town to exist
Alejandro Arturo Serrano Leo seguro que esta gente se lleva subvenciones de la UE
Alejandro Arturo Serrano Leo sure these people will take eu grants
Respuesta corta: No
Respuesta larga: No, indeed
Everything works for awhile until it doesnt. Including capitalism.
LOL Ahahaha you even ask those questions. Asking about that is like don’t knowing anything from Human Nature :)
If you’ve read the Communist Manifesto, then you know that it is not a peaceful thing Marx wants. He spends most of his effort espousing violence and demeaning other people trying to make a better world peacefully (that includes social democratic movements). So the question is: should we start killing people? And the answer is a resounding NO
My gut feeling is no. Which is why no self proclaimed Communist regime has ever been Communist.
Could the Spanish speaking community here post their baseless insults in English? As per community guidelines? Gracias.
You have to ask “did it work “_NO
I don’t thinks so.
Could fascism ever work in practice?
Europe needs a marxist revolution to end all this stupid rethoric about human nature and congratulates about the crimes of capitalism…
Yeah sure, communism is worst. Read some books sometimes and stop thinking about the romantic eat beauty world promised by some communists garbage.
gulag supporter..
Its never worked.
definitely, i don’t believe
This question isn’t really a question. In no place the thinking of the Marx determined the any political system, neither in the USSR. The historical realizations of the Marx thinking, always has been mediatizated by another people. The interpretation of the estrategic thinking, operational solutions, tactical way or operative-tecnical solutions give in all time diferent ways to the philosophical thought.
NO! Your debate questions are getting more and more stupid
No, because the communism killed the private initiative, because of that the communist countries lost the racing against the Western capitalism. The classical liberalism crushed after the crises since 2008, after wich we are needed of stronger government, but not of any communism.
Short answer: NO. Same response to the Marxist Socialism question. Same response to the liberal globalist Plutocracy question.
All 3 lead to totalitarianism eventually
Stupid question for stupid contemporaries
That was a Childish question could any Ideology work in practice? ?
Could Nazism work in practice?
No, pero no porque no sea bueno si no que en un sistema capitalista nunca podría funcionar… Cambiamos de sistema a ver que pasa?
No, but not because it’s not good if in a capitalist system it could never work… change of system to see what happens?
Well, it actually worked for some certain period. Communism transformed a semi-feudal state, into an industrial modern super power who sent its people to space. World War 2 struck a great blow to Soviet Union’s foundations, but it took almost 40 years to collapse. European Union also uses planned economy as a strategic practice to run european economy, but modern day’s ‘five year plans’ are drawn by central bank of Europe, other private investors and companies, and not by a centralized political party…
communism no longer is in place…like it used to…
see Russia , China and …
I think that men like Marx were visionaries in the sense that they dared to believe in a humanity, which can improve and evolve! It may sound obvious, but even today many people sadly think that humanity is eternally doomed to some degree of suffering, that many problematic factors will never go away. Here lied the importance of communist ideas, to begin to imagine and make the people believe that a better and more prosperous life is possible for all!
It depends if you have enough Golag space
Communism is an utopia and very similar to a religion. It promises the Paradise for tomorrow and the Hell for today.
Pretty much
Communism is the desert in which the wind of solitude blows
So many offended people, I really cannot understand this. Cannot you forget your own political beliefs and try to analyse the question from a theoretical and objective point of view? No one is doing communist propaganda here ffs
Communism as democratic direct democracy? Probably yes
200 millions body count….
and not a Hollywood movie about it…
So normally you have an idea. Then you test it in the real world and see if it works. When it fails multiple times you just have to wonder which brain-damaged individuals will still passionately support it? Why?
So, everyone supporting feudalism, capitalism and slavery were brain dead?
It’s silly to support an idea when there is an objectively better one.
Capitalism works just fine. If you do not have money, it is your fault. Try harded
How long did it take for liberal democracy to take hold?
* The French Revolution started 1789, yet only got its first “stable” democracy in the 1870s.
* The US Revolution started in 1775, yet only saw universal (white, male) suffrage in the 1820s
* The UK’s Glorious Revolution took place in 1689, yet only had elections where a majority of males could vote in the 1880s
Need I go on?
https://i.imgur.com/rb1dCO2.png
.
Marxism + Communism + Socialism = 200 million dead men, women and Children.
Only a fool or a madman would want to try it again.
Said the man supporting colonialism.
Spyros Kouvoussis Where did I support colonialism ? But seeing how you brought it up it should be remembered that the Nations that use to be part of the British Empire are some of the most democratic and prosperous Nations on planet Earth.
Africa would need some colonialism right now. Maybe they can get out of the dark ages
Daniel Leu And the middle East.
Leave socialism out of the equation as it is drastically different than communism. Socialism believes in a class distinct society and private ownership something communism does not.
We have very successfull socialistic countries in europe such as denmark, sweden, norway and finland who also are among the happiest countries around the world and with strong economies. France is another example and even germany is widely socialistic.
Alexander Hummelshøj Kringelbach .
That is the greatest lie of all.
The goal of socialism is communism. – Vladimir Lenin
Ivan, you certainly have an interesting way of expressing your opposition to colonialism.
John McTavish Tell that to the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, etc, etc, etc. .
http://thecommonwealth.org
we saw it in practice…in Albania..in Romania…in North Corea…in East Germany…
Ask Venezuela people
None of the extremist ideologies work. Extremism is a source of human suffering and destruction: left-extremism, right-extremism, liberal-extremism; they are all destructive.
The social and economic optimum is always somewhere in the middle. When society shifts towards extremism, first the economy suffers, then the population.
Are you familiar with the concept of the “Overton window”? What’s extreme in one era may be considered moderate in another. Those that opposed monarchs were once considered extremists.
Meanwhile under those monarchs there was a great deal of human suffering and the economy performed below the optimum.
You’ve disputed nothing, on the contrary.
Communism is against the natural tendencies, desires and instincts. It is thus condemned to fail as an un-natural political system.
Also a good part of female sexual selection is based on ability of potential partner to earn and feed his family. So I agree
People say if they could go back in history they would kill Hitler but to take out Marx would stop both the Nazi & Communist genocides.
KEIN IDEOLOGY CAN WORK WHEN PEOPLE DIES FROM HUNGRY. ..
F…K YOUR SOCIALISM YOUR CAPITALISM YOUR COMMUNISM
HUMANITY OVER ALL ✊✊
It could work only if one day we’ll be able to create and fill Earth with the genetically perfect man.
Olof Palmer demonstrated that Socialism and democracy are not antagonistic but the Americans killed him and his ideas from spreading. That is why we are discussing Communism instead of democratic socialism based on Gramsci and Palmer’s ideas and practiced in Sweden during his presidency
that is capitalism with social state
Marijana Nevezanić Yes, but was the beginning. Palmer’s idea was that is possible to get a socialist society using Education and Taxation instead of dictatorship.
A very advanced European Social Model
Señores entendieron lo que crearon? Todo comienza con una mentira.
Gentlemen, did you understand what they created? It all starts with a lie.
no
class-less sociaty can exist only without hierarchy
but no sociaty can be functional without hierarchy
Of course in China is working
Communism with private property is not communism you dimwit.
Everything need an upgrade😂
Luca well then it upgraded to capitalism -.-
Communism killed between 60 – 100 million people in China so how did it ‘work’ exactly ?
How many people have killed US imperialism? I don’t see any saints around the Globe honestly
Luca What’s that got to do with the Communist death cult in the question ?
Communism killed between 60 – 100 million people in China but this Communism have nothing to share with the dictatorship of the past
@Luca
at most maybe around 7 million from 1776 to 2018. Communism killed several times that amount
Over 100 million dead would say NO.
well unlimited and unregulated capitalism is destroying hte planet and people’s lives, can we ask that question too?
Will you be throwing away your pc & phone, walking everywhere, live in a mud hut & eating only potatoes ? I take you want everyone else to.
Ivan Burrows ivan still here? yawn yawn yawn
No w Chinach, po pewnych poprawkach, działa!!! I to jak…. ;-)
We all arrive to this world equally, with nothing. Then because of political and economical factors we end up in different social classes. It is in the human nature to strive for equality. Communism can work in practice but this will be a long journey with ups and downs but one day it will be the reality.
As long as people have different IQ’s and abilities there can never be ‘equality’. For instance, if I run a business why shouldn’t I have more money and a better standard of living than those people I employ ?
Such ideeas lead to stalinism!
Ivan Burrows Communism is a society where everybody`s needs will be met. People will contribute to the society based on their abilities and everybody will be requited based on their needs. There will be more than enough food, homes, holidays etc etc for everybody so there won`t be need for people to be greedy. People will be able to develop their skills and knowledge and achieve. The individual will benefit and the society too. There will be no social classes. This require a very high level of conscience thus will take a long time until humanity gets there. Karl Marks ideas are very clear but the interpretation is done in the way that portrait Communism as a ghost. Until now there have been attempts to practice his ideas but so far starting with socialist revolution in Russia in 1917, eastern European countries and China after the WW2, these all were in infancy stage and of course with no experience, and the difficulties and sabotage and intervention from west countries these all were unsuccessful. So yes it is going to be a very long and difficult journey but like until now humanity will always seek justice, equality and a TRUE democracy.
No. Communism can not work in practice. USSR and the Soviet Block had almost half of the world’s resources and it failed. Today, the boundary between wealthy and poor teritories corresponds with the border between countries which tried the communism (these are the poorer ones) and countries which were capitatlisic. Facts speak for themselfs. The communism can not work. Even today’s China is not a communist country anymore. It is free-market economy with strong government intervetionism. The only “communist” thing in China is the name of the ruling “communist” party. Greetings from Poland!
His legacy: 200.000.000 deaths.
Capitalism is bad, incorrect, opressing etc. But it is the only sistem that works in human society. In so called comunist societies was capitalist relationship between reach people (the Party leaders) and the poor people (any other else).
Feudalism worked over 700/800 years (900 years in Andorra). Capitalism also during 700 years but only 300 combined with Liberalism.
Yes, capitalism replaced the old relationships based on brute force with relatioships based on capital, especialy money.
Νο
ESSR.
USSR?
E is for European.
Only if there were unlimited energy resources.
Cuentame Marx
our king Stalin must be pleased for he will take over all of fortnite and revive the Ugandan knuckles meme and our world will be destroyed forever
Dear god… He will be far too powerful for any one to stop
yes with good leaders like trump
Yes with good leaders like trumpy
just wait for ai to take over 90% of jobs. people will enjoy a brief period of “real” communism, maybe 3-5 generations. when ai does virtually everything, thus making humans obsolete. repeat cycle. minus imagination.
Russia and other attempts of communism wasnt real communism it was bloody state capitalism.. there was still dividing class, what u put into society and the hard work u put in the more u receive but everyone has a home / basic human needs clean water and power… entertainment, the people make the governing decisions and no more eorker class / capitalist power and profit struggle, we build society we want, together
Only in bad SciFi movies.
D oh, no. Why is there a debate about this in the 21st century ?? Thought we already had it and also have seen in it practice. It was applied accordin to theory and we have seen the horrors..It is shaming the memory of the thousands who died by the hands of this criminal regime. The debate should should we have more monuments in the memory of the victims of communism? Because it seems people forget..
Noooo
Well it has in many countries. Then those leaders got murdered. Thomas Sankara, anyone?
Ask the millions who starved to death
No, human nature makes sure that such an egalitarian society cannot exist.
Lol no
Excluding AI implementation
No.
But allot of systems that got demonized do have interesting xconcepts that can be implemented
We re not ready for true communism.
I believe the answer to that question has already been given throughout much of our recent history. Sure, some may say that the Soviet Union was not real communism. Mao’s China was not real communism. North Korea isn’t real communism. But what does that actually tell us ? That real communism, as in the utopia in Marx’s doctrine, can’t be put into practice. Every known attempt to build a communist society has failed miserably and we are not speaking only about the Soviet Union. Even China had to go from communism to a rather capitalist oriented economy with an authoritarian political system.
It doesn’t work. It ignores human nature. It denies basic economic laws. It centralizes too much power, leading to abuse. It inevitably denies freedom by having to take away private property, something most people wouldn’t agree with. It makes individuals dependent of the state. It offers them what the state wants and not what they need or desire (which is why capitalism is so much better, it works on the basis of supply and demand). It’s also naturally stagnant, it lacks the flexibility of a non-centralised economic system and finally, every historical example is a total failure. Only fools repeat the same mistake twice.
Capitalism isn’t perfect. But, unlike communism, it doesn’t pretend to be. There is no ultimate goal of history. There is no utopia. Like democracy, to paraphrase Churchill, it’s the worst economic model, except for every other economic model.
This question is insulting to many people on many levels, do you even realise that?
Already proven is a scam to control society by ppl thirsty for absolute power. Millions of dead are not enough for you?
Separately talking few concepts out of the ideological bible… YES!
A lot of it’s goals and methods are working even in liberal societies…
But as a centralized system commanded by illuminated and corrupt party members… No!
So, the question should have been:
Can communism exist without falling into corruption??!
NO!!!
unfortunately Russians tried it for 50years…
It makes no sense to judge communism in light of a capitalist set of values. The opposite is true as well, naturally.
Comunism, at least on its past attempts, enforced a totalitarian regime to shape society to its black and white dogma. These regimes were unacceptable, of course. But so are so many capitalist totalitarian regimes that exist and existed. Furthermore, only privileged and/or ignorant people cannot realize the global capitalist present state of affairs, that started in the 16th century, being responsible for the suffering, murder, enslavement, etc of many more people that all the communist regimes put together.
Communism destroys the individual by pretending to be its liberator. Capitalism destroys the collective by pretending to be its binding fluid. Amazing and horrible things can be, and have been, done in any of the regimes.
Right, cause it hasn’t been practiced.
Sure it would, just enough people need to be murdered.
NO LIKE CAPITALISM OR SOCIALISM. NOTHING IS WORKING WHEN PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY
If you are Hungry in a Western democracy so are part of the global 1% the fault is not that of the system, it is yours.
Could nazism? Could anarchism? What kind of stupid questions are this? They are millions of people who terribly suffered because of comunism, nazism and other like -ism!!!
Only in a colony of ants
In theory yes, but in practice, even the most fair and just leaders bring in corrupt practices
So, no
No. Next question.
No! And should never be try again! All excuses, that it was not implemented correctly in the past, but it is a “great idea” and should be tried again will lead to millions of victims again. The comminist’s ideology or religion is a fundamentalist one and do not allow any opposition. “Who is not with us is against us” is their principle. Let’s be responsible to the new generations on this planet and tell them what’s happened by every attempt to introduce an totalitarian regime – nationalsocialism, communism or simply even socialism, as a first step to communism!
YESSS
Ivan No more than millions killed from wars, drugs, hunger, modern slavery etc etc which are result of exploitation of men by man which is the main principle of capitalism. Like previous systems with antagonist classes, capitalism will come to an end. Humanity aims for equality and they will not stop until it is achieved. How long? How? It would depend on social, political, ecnomical, and ideological development. It would be the mission of the new generations to find out for themselves how to get there.
Liri Kodhelaj It says a great deal about you that you would use deflection instead of acknowledging reality.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3B8PhJheLVo/VqZgMxxdSRI/AAAAAAAABB4/lE6_QHO0fZY/s1600/Red%252BFlags%252Bof%252BSocialism.jpg
No! But Сталинизъм Конечно!
It has been tried countless times, and failed each time.
Karl Marx left a thought legacy which has inspired to many people to fight for a better world. Nonetheless, marxism is not perfect but it is a great input that can contribute to think something new taking some principles from it. A society without empathy tends to always fail. Greetings from Argentina.
Socialism will follow the Capitalism when the level of ocean will rise 2 meter higher. Without plans in economy Homo Sapiens will follow dinosaurs.
Sure it can if you are happy to see 100’s of millions of people murdered in the name of collectivisation and everyone else living in fear and poverty.
Not that you have the option in the EU as it’s implementation as already begun with your unelected European Politburo.
Communism = 150-200 million murdered men, women and children, whole nations destroyed and billions of people treated as tools of the ‘Party’.
Capitalism = 2 billion people lifted out of poverty in the last 25 years, billions more lives improved beyond recognition through personnel responsibility and freedom.
If you think Communism can work you are either uninformed, mentally ill or dangerous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yaPUL-oGjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yaPUL-oGjI
How many has killed capitalism?
Mário In gas chambers & Gulags ?, none..
How many migrants do you see leaving capitalist Nations for Socialist ones ? There is your answer.
Socialism is Cancer, Capitalism is the cure.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/14525/5-statistics-showing-how-capitalism-solves-poverty-aaron-bandler
It works neither in theory nor in practice.
comparing communism with the nazis the fascists were million times better than the communists. Period
No, next question.
Even in theory doesn’ t work 😂😉 We must teach more about it and shiw its ugly truth, it seems people tend to forget..
Some kind of socialism maybe, but communism – no
It could be a good idea for people living miles away from the place it is actually implemented. People are not naturally efficient and honest, they tend to get illegal advantages.
Vainius what do you think?
No.
No.
Of course not
yes.In Israel kibbutz sistem is working;)
Could any idiology work in practice?
Yes, just take a look at Venezuela, it works in perfection.
Obviously few, if any, bothered to read the article.
For those interested in a serious discussion:
Computers could actually make communism work. In Estonia we have an example of how through informatics the state removed any biased treatment of administration topics. They made the rules, computers follow them.
On the other hand, some German Amazon-style commerce platform has a computer that pre-orders from suppliers 90% everything they sell in Xmas period. Meaning economic planing could actually be possible.
Sorry if my reference to the German outlet is not precise. I’m on the mobile phone and it’s not so simple to retrieve information.
Computers do not work alone they need people doing programming, and the people doing programming needs other people that would explain what is the work to be done and why.
In communism these two different roles are in the same level, then people can discuss endless what and why is necessary to do. Finally when doing the programming there will be many incoherences made by different points of views of each person. Communism will not work either with the best of computers.
Tell me on what does it differ developing a software for the state under communism or, for example, in Estonia. Because I do not perceive the difference.
The customer (the state) establishes the requirements, and the supplier (the software developers) implement it.
Mário Few years ago I was talking with few former scientists from the former soviet union.
They were retired, but they worked in a country in the West.
They agreed that communist have lost the battle of small and personal computers.
The soviet computers used large electromechanical boards and gas valves.
These valve’s computers were very large and very expensive to produce.
The software was very machine level, then it took very long time to do the software, and very prone to errors on flags and parity and so on.
At the fist step communism found practically impossible to compete against the solid state computer and high level software programming of the West.
Please do not think on resuscitate the dead using modern technology…
Tell me… how were computers in the USA, real computers, in the 1970s and 1980s?
I proposed a serious discussion. You choose to pass on a biased analysis of the past. None of your comments reply to the questions I academically asked.
Thank you for nothing. Next.
? “Sorry if I annoyed you, it was not my intention.
Mário If you are as you claim an academic how can you ignore the historical facts of Socialism ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_dnRA5NFhs&t=4s
Question was: “Could communism ever work in practice?”
True?
I launched one topic related with central management economy, one of the biggest flags of communist state ideas.
The article, for those who bothered to open it point centralized management as precisely one of the difficulties to handle.
Those difficulties in specific would be nowadays overcome by informatics.
As for to your questions.
Manuel – You failed, comfortably, to reply to my question as about computers in the USA in the 1970s and 1980s. I believe the answer would not suit you. The technology in USSR was so far behind that while in the west the USA placed 5 SkyLabs in space that crashed the MIR space station had to be forced down and even when actively trying to crash it the safeguard systems kept it “afloat” until the fuel finally ran out.
Ivan – The great famine is a fact. There is no excuse for what was done there nor you will ever see me excusing. I would none the less advise you two researches: what the UN has published on the topic in official reports and to how many people did capitalism led to starvation in South America and Africa. And while you are at it, try and read about cyclic famines in the Ukrainian territory and about when the cycle ended.
About the 10 million death in the Ukrainian Famine, the Court of Appeal of Kiev in 2010 set the number in 3.9 million – still big but way smaller than the western propaganda 10 million or more. Still 3.9 million than what should have been, but a fact is a fact and lies exist everywhere.
https://lb.ua/news/2010/01/14/19793_nalivaychenko_nazval_kolichestvo_zh.html
Mário In any summary of the history and evolution of computers you will not see any contribution from the communist nations or people.
Yes MIR space station was fantastic. The MIG planes with micro vacuum valves were impressive.
But communist countries lost the battle against the simple silicon and the semiconductor industry.
This semiconductor industry grew so fast that is giving personal computers and mobile phones at affordable prices.
Meanwhile in the communist regimes you needed to wait few years to receive one black and white television using valves.
Yet. semiconductors are available everywhere now and the question is made now, and not about 25 years ago.
Mário Not all the semiconductors are available everywhere, you can ask the people of Iran or North Korea or Cuba, either for Brazil some semiconductor components are very difficult to purchase and you need a long bureaucratic process.
If communist would return to the government in a non democratic regime, these restrictions of selling some semiconductors will be used by the West.
So… my proposal is technically viable.
Yes. Single word answer. More relevant question: is it likely to?
Only if the capitalism system can’ t answer to the majority society.
Not even in theory, only retards think so.
NO !
Never! It is a utopia.
Still asking this question after at least 100 million victims? You might as well ask if nazism could work. Same thing.
How many people has capitalism killed, through inequality and poverty?
So that to persecute and to kill people, yes! that works very well.
Yes, in Star Trek. But it’s not quite communism, it’s a post-scarcity system. Until then, no way Jose! :)
Never
Let’s not forget that Vladimir Tismaneanu is the son of former communist leader and KGB agent Volodea Tismaneanu, member of Comintern Moscow.
well…it’s hard to say, since communism should be implemented by people also…:-)…we should try again with robots…:-)
No
It’s working in Venezuela. Major success.
no
communism works, it creates poverty, starvation, oppression and dictatorship. Works like a charm.
Sounding social policies are necessary for the wellbeing of a society, but the main drive for innovation is competition, not imposition.
The more egalitarian a society the freer the people. Equality of opportunity is good, equality of outcome is a nightmare.
Only the stupid and the lazy would want communism to happen. As for why communism would never work, I guess I wouldn’t want to waste time explaining it to any one of you, because none of you would understand and it would start an explosion of stupid arguments.
Greed runs capitalism
Just know that
The last professor said it would be highly wasteful if it wasn’t democratic. I believe in democracy, but a fundamental truth of a democratic system is that it is highly inefficient
Greed is the main driving force in a capitalist economy. Once AI robots start building utopias and we make things to help sustain resources. Then maybe we can live in a society without “property” because that’s what we’re here for right…. I’m here to live in harmony with one another, not in competition.
If no one did anything and the place was a true democracy with no corruption and all work done by machines then yes
I think so
I think the major point of contention is whether or not human nature is inherently bent towards good or evil. If humans were not so naturally self seeking then communism and marxism might work fine. But if we look throughout history it is pretty evident that that is not the case
basically stalin
WWII had a significant impact on the Soviet Union’s Economy and the economic health of its people. The Soviets lost more than 17,000 towns, 70,000 villages, and 32,000 factories due to the war. The lack of men, functioning machinery, livestock, and limited harvest led to food shortages both during and after the war.
lol 420th comment
I’m so tired
one might argue that its done terrible things in the past when it failed however Thomas Edison attempted to create the light bulb a thousand times before succeeding but he got it. Now could you imagine a world without the light bulb?
thomas edison attempted to create the light bulb a thousand times before succeeding
Yes
COMMUNISM WORKS IT JUST HAS NOT BEEN IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY
In a fantasy world, yeah, real world, no.
nope. My parents lived it, i lived the aftermath in the 90’s. Absolutely no.
Sure, if it’s imposed with enough violence. Humans are individuals not hive minded insects. Any form of collectivism is unnatural to humans and involves the use of force. In a post-scarcity world it may work though. We need at least cold-fusion and replicators like in Star Trek, then we can talk about communism.
Not as it has been realized. Its idea of equality and justice should not be neglected though, as the (new) working class today and our global capitalism both need balance. A stronger democracy + a fairer treatment of the working people.
Hahahahaha ofcourse not.
Communism is a state capitalism.Then, why should we believe than a single ruler makes better than several rulers.
However, a single «public » ruler is better than a single « private » ruler. Not because he is smarter but because he is legitimate.
Stalinist bureaucracy didn’t work, no. But as you can already see from the current run of comments here, some people are not so discerning when it comes to explaining the differences and all the complex history. Just comments like “my great grandparents’ neighbour’s cousin’s dog was abducted by kgb so I’m an expert in marxism even though I was born in 1999 and havent vigorously studied socio political history”. The usual boring anti communist drivel. Driving a car doesn’t make you a mechanic.
yes it works, don’t you see the tens of milions of bodies?
Not all communism will inevitably produce tens of millions of bodies. only when you place a leader like Stalin at the helm. communism has become a synonym for evil and demagoguery in capitalist countries, but the truth is that communism is a system of social organization that has never been “truly” attempted. Marx clearly states that communism is not synonymous with corrupt and devious pathocracy, but instead a complex resining towards the future of society and economy.
Idd many people here dont seem to get communism except the ones that misused it.
I see the west turning more social, from health care to w.e. So even in capitalism we have some forms of commusist thought.
Though having a economy driven on it seems strange but could work. Being usefull instead of being usefull just for money sake to myself is also a moral we all have and we see comming out more aswel.
So it could work with the right culture. But that broad culture doesnt exist yet. Imo that culture would produce better leaders and potentially a way better world. But it seems to have to grow from wealth. Imo it wont work from a poverty sence.
Clearly you haven’t read that by 1930s even Stalin and his inner circle had realized that the perverse incentives created by getting rid of money are insurmountable.
yea stalin is my favourite source… No.
You cant even differentiate between communism and socialism. Which is something one would expect from someone with EU flag on their profile picture…
a nice comment again so useful.
I think im quite able to. And socialism has its connections to communism. And so there is a hypothetical question if it could exist and so the links are made.
Anyway this is a discussing platform if you want to trow random comments of your past then go to a football match?
Ps you can leave the eu :) you can go back to russia and ask for stalinism and corruption. Oh wait the corruption is already there.
Communism in its end result advocates stateless and and no social divisions of any type. But to organise anything you’ve got to have structure of command therefore create a mini state within each organisation that can divert resources. Power corrupts and if there isn’t a counter force the loss of resources makes the hardest working laborers more discouraged to go on with the goals of the organisation which in return lowers the productivity of the all workers. And the deficits begin and quarrels too and fight for change too and before you know it communism starts to shake.
I dont get your point because its the same in any society.
Social division of any type, people would still have roles. Which can be organized. Just the community as a whole controlling it.
Corruption needs fighting and i think you confuse with no classes that criminals will just roam free?
Lol. Yes like singing contest in space.
The quest start from definitly minority group must retain the country or world wealth.
The comunism as a social thema, follows capitalism social organization. And, this one isn’ t working as well as was dreaming.
Ask Chinese and viet namese
It was in practice – oh, it was!!! and it never worked!!!!
Maybe because the US and NATO were constantly putting pressure on the communist countries, and brainwashing the people with propaganda.
World doesnt need ideological boxes of the past. Its needs true leaders of balanced character and true interest for people and nature. The rest will come.
There is so much ignorance about understanding communism it’s theory, ideas and principles. Capitalism did everything to destroy communism in it’s infancy because the new system would bring an end to capitalism itself. Communism was portrayed as a ghost. The powerful rich capitalist countries used everything to destroy the new system before it started. We all know why. The rich who have accumulated so much wealth by exploiting others cannot let the wealth going to people who created it. Bourgesy cannot survive without exploiting others. They were terrified of workers in their countries would follow the e example of their Russian counterparts and fight for a fair system. Communism was never put into practice. The triumph of socialist revolution in Russia in October 1917 and after WW2 in some eastern Europe countries was just first step. None of those countries got to finish even the first phase of communism which would have e been socialism. Calling China, Russia etc communist countries is a lie because they are not.
Also there is a lot of missuse of the word dictature. Dictature isclose linked with state. That means dictature is used by those who are in power and will protect their interest. That means interest of bourgesy in a capitalist state a d interest of workers in a communist state. Communism will work in practice when peoe would be ready for it and for that they first need to learn about it.
Well said !
Highly Unlikely 😂
Let’s not to try never again!
we will !
Even asking the question is stupid 😠
especially if u don’t understand it
First – no one has an idea what communism exactly is and no one knows exactly how to get there.
Second – yes we can go that direction even its a little foggy and far ahead
Third – capitalist will never EVER allow this to happen, they will give their lives to prevent it, bcs none of them can live in communism, they don’t fit in this idea where no one controls anyone and no manipulation is needed. Capitalist is based on power, control and manipulation of the masses. It is the main fuel of the system. Brainwashing people that they can be rich and they can be powerful… no they can’t. In fact they are very unhappy and powerless. So capitalism works only fr those few guys(maybe 0.00001% of us) that manipulate the others
Communism is a very simple ideology but it’s impossible to be understood by those who seek power and control over the others. Also main problem is that ppl need to be very intelligent to fit in this ideology. This is maybe the biggest problem, but it only takes time…otherwise we will all die eating each other like we do now.
WHICHEVER “ISM” WE LIVE BY, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE WHO WISH TO IMPOSE THEIR AUTHORITY ON OTHERS, THOSE AT THE HEAD, WHETHER SOCIALIST, COMMUNIST OR CAPITALIST WILL LIVE IN PALACES, HAVE LUXURIES THAT OTHERS DO NOT HAVE AND WILL IMPOSE THEIR WILL, HOWEVER UNFAIR OR CRUEL ON THE POPULACE. MAN’S NATURE IS BASICALLY SELFISH, THE SAME AS ALL LIFE FORMS, IT’S THE NEED TO SURVIVE AND SOME ARE MORE SELFISH THAN OTHERS. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE MINORITY THAT RULES THE MAJORITY ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE. SOME OF THE “ISMS” SOUND GREAT ON PAPER, BUT OFTEN GO HAND IN HAND WITH NO FREE SPEECH, NO OBJECTIONS, NO FREE THINKING, NO AMBITION AND SEVERE PENALTIES FOR THOSE WHO STEP OUTSIDE THE BOX.
To Anonymous
You can not know what will happen, no one knows. In communism the is NO head. Its the main idea of the system. If you don’t know that then you don’t understand the system so you can not argue here.Selfishness is something that one can manage. Its not engraved in your brain. Free speech and free thinking… what do you mean – free. No one is free, we live together, so we depend on each other. Communism is way more free than capitalism. Final point is to have no rules and rulers. What could be more free than that ? What could be more out of the box?!
First – no one has an idea what communism exactly is and no one knows exactly how to get there.
Second – yes we can go that direction even its a little foggy and far ahead
Third – capitalist will never EVER allow this to happen, they will give their lives to prevent it, bcs none of them can live in communism, they don’t fit in this idea where no one controls anyone and no manipulation is needed. Capitalist is based on power, control and manipulation of the masses. It is the main fuel of the system. Brainwashing people that they can be rich and they can be powerful… no they can’t. In fact they are very unhappy and powerless. So capitalism works only fr those few guys(maybe 0.00001% of us) that manipulate the others
Communism is a very simple ideology but it’s impossible to be understood by those who seek power and control over the others. Also main problem is that ppl need to be very intelligent to fit in this ideology. This is maybe the biggest problem, but it only takes time…otherwise we will all die eating each other like we do now.
As long as there are two men or two women left on this planet, there will never be peace and you could distribute all the wealth of the world equally today and by the end of the week some will be wealthier and some will be poorer. The idea of communism is great but man being man there will always be someone wanting power over others. For truth and perception, I would put the book Animal Farm above even the bible.
You can use Animal Farm to build better idea for Communism by seeing some problems and having then in mind. Its not about distributing wealth equally but to give it back to ppl who actually made it. Its more like – we all have all. In contrast a capitalist person wants it all only for himself. Don’t get me wrong, you can’t build Communism in a day, it may take thousands of years…but it could be done and I’m sure that its the only way to go.
Marx had beautiful ideas, morally and ethically sound but he failed from the get go to understand basic human psychology. The society he dreamed of is made of individuals and individuals are inherently selfish and egotistic that is confirmed even in Charles Darwin masterpiece ” The Origin Of The Species”. You can’t ignore our inherent instincts of the survival of the fittest. The question remains will people one day become sufficiently compassionate and ethical about those most vulnerable to fully implement communism? I think yes one day we will.
i feel like one way that can give communism a higher chance of succeeding is do check ups on people and if they don’t do what they have to do you can send them to jail
I highly believe that communism gives every one a chance to be who they wanna be and have a chance to do what they love
I believe that communism, judging that it is a non-capitalist and government controlled economy, could work. It does depend on the economic climate that communism is placed in. If a capitalist government is placed in a generally poor area, then it most likely will not work. Same goes with communism. Marx an Engles had many good ideas, but they were ideas that didn’t take basic human human psychology into account.
If humans weren’t so focused on individual gain and greed then maybe it could definitely work. When people think of communism the first thing that usually comes to mind is Stalin and the Soviet Union. This is an example of when communism was implemented with good intentions that were quickly forgotten when the realisation of the amount of power the leaders controlled hit them. this along with the fact that the tsar being overthrown and the nobility being executed dissuaded europe and much of the world from engaging in trade and diplomatic relations with the soviet union, meant that they got a bad start which got worse once stalin was in power. Another factor was that the revolution happened because russia was in a constant state of famine and didn’t have enough resources to properly function. this again gave the soviets a bad start.
I think everyone should read a book on modern witchcraft.
I would like to extend an invitation to this link below for all those who believe that Marx was in favor of genocide or anyone who believes that communism was responsible for the millions of deaths that tragically occurred. It wasn’t Communism that was at fault but the corrupt interpretations from the psychologically warped minds who were in power. I am not in favor of communism or socialism, but I do understand the idea and would love a world where people were more equal to each other in class and an economic structure that allowed more people to enjoy a better lifestyle as long as they were able to earn in. Living in America all I’ve seen is a very small percentage of people who get to prosper and it’s usually not from hard work but from inheritance or the oppression of others and exploitation of other people’s labor. The American dream is simply unattainable for anyone who is natively born into a lower class family and there are simply not enough opportunities for a larger percent of the populous to EARN a more just and fair income. Any attempts to bring this to light are thwarted with unrealistic and crass effects by those who simply would not gain from it. It has been this way throughout the centuries in all parts of the world. Those who have the power and the money will always oppress those without and it will never change because of selfish desires and greed which are the two most prominent psychological concepts infused into our DNA. Capitalism is, for the lack of a better word, EVIL and every governmental establishment has been corrupted and abused by those in power;
even Democracy has been tainted and mutated. I weep for this nation and feel there isn’t much time before it collapses.
For a good read: https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-did-Marx-endorse-violence-Did-he-endorse-genocide
sze;
The flaw with communism is that it believes in an idealised human species; one who would always work for the prosperity of the group and wouldn’t strive to seek own gain. Without any driving force, e.g. private profit, there is less motivation for people to work for total strangers who they have never met and will be unlikely to sympathise with. Another flaw with the way that so called ‘communist’ societies have formed is that even though a ruler may have the best intentions for how the state should become communist, they are often singly in control over the whole state. This causes the people at the top to be mainly comprised of intelligent power-hungry people who often do not truly care about the suffering of the proletariat- those who should supposedly be thriving from a communist utopia.
I really like kommunism, it’s the best system we’ve ever kome akross. Anybody who suggests otherwise is frankly a krybaby kapitalist pig.
Your question is insane. It is insulting, why don’t you ask ,could Nazism ever work in practice? This is ridiculous question, you would never ask such a question because it is an insult to the victims and because it happened in Western Europe. Communism brought a lot of suffer to eastern countries, it is prohibited nowadays, millions died because of its sadistic dictators I am sure you would ask could Nazism ever work because there will be so many offended people…why I just want to know why they are not equally evil to you but communism is even discussed in Debating Europe??? Who made a suggestion of that stupid question, it should be fired instantly!
No.Every socialist government will run out of money.Without personal interest, nobody will work anymore.
We know that this is outdated and irrelevant question.
We don’t have enough “space” (literally) to have isolated “communes”.
We do know that “capitalism” doesn’t work, the “invisible hand” regulating the markets doesn’t work, protecting the plutocracy doesn’t work.
We do know, that putting people first, apparently is called “populism”, and is a threat for EU establishment… why do you think that is?
No. Putting some people over others is called populism.
Communism is bad for already developped and industrialized countries like those in Western Europe. For primitve countriesl like Russia and the Balkans it’s perfect. In 1917 Russians didn’t even have roads. 40 years later they have send man w into space. Also Titoist Yugoslavia – its HDI was 0,913 which is very high.
Communism is bad for already developped and industrialized countries like those in Western Europe. For primitve countriesl like Russia and the Balkans it’s perfect. In 1917 Russians didn’t even have roads. 40 years later they have send man w into space. Also Titoist Yugoslavia – its HDI was 0,913 which is very high.
Yeah, you definately got a point. They would have achieved a lot more with 70% illiterate population.
Never, you can see the countries that tried to use it. Look Al Venezuela, north corea, China, Cuba and countries of south América…..
that doesnt mean it cant.
Tried to use? Imo mainly misuse. I can state I am communist but then become a dictator, meaning I never was a communist imo.
oh boy
Its effectively same as asking “could nazism ever work in practice”- or even worse.
Most people who think “but real communism has never been practised” havent actually paid attention to what communism is. So frankly, it is upright insulting to people who suffered under communist rule to even ask that.
Meaningless question. It was practiced for 70 years and failed.
Capitalism doesn’t work either. It has had to make serious socialist concessions, ie the welfare system, to survive the last century. I hope the EU social philosophy remains intact.
In small communities of likeminded people it might work if they can scavenge on the achievements of a bigger society.
In a society with freedom communism will never work.
Which is exactly why communists killed more than 100 million people in order to bend societies to their will, yet it still didn’t work.
Your page should be taken offline and you should be arrested for promoting a genocidal political idea.
so just like the communists, you want to stop and criminalise any conversation about it.
I think it matters how an issue is discussed, don’t you?
How would you like a discussion: “could mass genocide and enslavement ever give you utopia”?
Because that’s the honest meaning of the above question and if you can’t understand that then you either massively lack education or morality.
everything can be up for discussion. Because it’s a discussion, nothing else. By avoiding discussions, you end up with worse realities.
“I think it matters HOW an issue is discussed, don’t you?”
Reading comprehension is a bliss.
when discussing something you must look at it from a historical perspective too. When communism started there was no word of genocide or gulag. When Nazism started , nobody knew exactly where it would lead. Maybe if there had been more debating and discussions, things would have turned differently…
Hi Bódis Kata , thanks for your comment. As you know, we’re a debating platform, and therefore we deliberately ask provocative questions in order to spark a debate.
We also want to point out that we are asking if the political theory behind communism could ever work in practice – we are not questioning that the communist regimes in central and eastern Europe were dictatorships that committed horrible crimes against humanity.
What!? communism only ever came into play in nations of little social freedom of the proletariat, where the people are enslaved under the sick whip of industrial capitalism. Your argument that communists ‘killed more than 100 million people in order to bend society to their will’ is nullified as if you are to generalise that in every communist society ever 100 million people died, you must in turn apply this logic to capitalism, how many people have died as a result of capital Darwinist economic competition… the wars i mean dumbass. what of imperial capitalist abuse and suffering during colonialism. Genocide has occurred under capitalism, what of the scapegoating of the Jews in Nazi Germany, that had some capitalist motivation. Japanese expansionism in Asia, US aggression in Iraq, collonial abuse in india and Africa . I have discounted both of your entire two points made to back up this argument. You have been brainwashed idiot, you say ‘people should be arrested’ for idealising an pollitical/ economic idea which is hypocrasy, you are so blindly brainwashed, and the only reason you write this is because you hate Communism, you hate communism because it threatens to bring change and you fear that, you are so blind. all this cold war propaganda got you acting like an idiot.
Of course not. Are you crazy? Disgusting questions
No!!
not so subtle anymore eh?
No. Nothing that involves hate of any kind works.
In what way is hate involved in the ideology of communism?
Did it ever worked ? seems like half of the world countries tried it. It never worked.
It was ok in SFRJ
Works well just doesn’t archive the goals and kills or enslaves almost everyone when it’s tried. Look at North Korea, it’s a working system, just not a very beneficial one to the population.
Really??? Seriously???
Wow, “debate ” is obviously not a thing anymore, considering the commentaries. Very worrying.
Communism will win
Not without capitalism.
We need a reformed improved current system not an old one that failed. A fusion with the best bits from all system theories. Guarantee basic needs are met for all, guarantee access to the health system and education opportunities for all. If you want to go higher levels try nationalised: banks, defence and health r & d. A GMI. And money creation to fund it all with the debt wiped off. Then stick capitalism and taxes on top of that.
This article is about 2 years ago
The system we have in place – work better. We need a free market that can stimulate innovation, but also provide basic social security to the poor. Why not turn our eyes forward and look at similar solutions that Andrew Yang is suggesting on the other side of the ocean right now though? Automation is happening on this continent aswell and we do need to tackle that.
Yes if we abolish capitalism and monetary system
And humans with souls.
Probably not but the EU should change its policies,, with less corruption and capitalism.
Communism will never work. For a community(state) to prosper, each individual must be allowed to reach their maximum potential. In communism everyone is equal, except the leaders of course, and this only promotes mediocrity. No one wants to work harder as there is no motivation or benefit in doing so and inefficiency kicks in, leading to what we have already seen. Same can be said about socialism. Socialisms problem is that the state wants to be big(huge inefficient spending) and provide to some by taking from those that produce. Communism will never work, but a capitalist society with small government and a good, well run welfare system would work. But the key is small government with low government spending and a efficient well monitored welfare system to provide for those in need and not for the smartass lazy people.
NEVER!
This is insane question, Debating Europe. Why don’t you ask Could Nazism ever work… they are equally evil, so many people suffered and died because of its sadistic dictators. Do you think you would offend someone asking Could Nazism ever work? Why don’t you think the same way for communism? People who suggested that topic probably don’t even know what happened in these counties…
yea, 100.000.000 deaths more? Fantastic idea. Now seriously, are you out of your mind promoting communism En EU?
All systems can work under the right circumstances. THe ones that failed so badly were incorrectly implemented. Hitler was negatively biased, creating mass genocide. Stalin was the same.
Just goes to show how badly humans behave when given mass amounts of power lol
Hi Ántoni Tsekov, thanks for your comment. As you know, we’re a debating platform, and therefore we deliberately ask provocative questions in order to spark a debate. We’ve also launched the following debate
https://www.debatingeurope.eu/2019/11/06/are-people-too-nostalgic-about-europes-communist-past/?fbclid=IwAR2JVy2SR9PT2CFOKY8JnA9cZbF0K3vDln4sUDp28TxB_BCSxSE40JOR5Ik#.Xe4YTuhKi71
as well as several debates on fascism https://www.debatingeurope.eu/?s=fascism
It’s really disgusting to see people commenting bulshit like “why don’t you ask if Nazism could ever work, as they are equally evil?”. They are not equally evil at all, only following the stupid resolution from the European Parliament, and if you do think they are then the Western propaganda has really brainwashed you. The main difference here is that Nazism worked PRECISELY the way it should have, while Socialism (if you have state, by definition, is not Communism, as Communism is anarchy) in the USSR only worked for like the first month, then it turned into state Capitalism aka Fascism. And not all attempts to reach Socialism/Communism need to do the USSR way, at all, so yeah, the way they did it clearly didn’t work (only from a social point of view, as they had 99% of literacy, turned peasants into astronauts in less than four decades and the second biggest economy in the world), but the way Allende’s Chile did until the US sabotaged him, clearly worked. To sum up: Communism works, and it’s not me saying it, it’s history.
Its exactly the same!! The fear, the oligarchy, the prisoners, the propaganda!
Please, watch the trilogy “The Battle of Chile”, by Patrício Guzmán: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072685/ to understand how what you just described is not necessarily how every so-called Socialist system has to evolve (also because, by the very definition of it, you can’t have oligarchs in Communism, but you do have them in the US, which is an oligarchy and not a democracy).
Allende was elected democratically, had the popular power always on his side, protected the freedom of expression even for the US-backed fascists to express themselves (which would cost him his life later on) and never wanted to arm the people, that themselves wanted weapons to fight the fascists for him. So no: it’s not exactly the same.
100.000.000 deaths
precise demagogia communist speach. In communist countries no one died because of hunger or desease?
precise demogagia capitalist speech. In capitalist countries no one dies because of the regime? Nobody dies for not having money to healthcare, to housing, for education (all of those free in communism)?
as I predicted, what you know about Communism is only what Western press, pro-US and anti-Russia, puts in your brain to make you think you are the only smart guy in the room and that only Communists are the target of propaganda, and Capitalists think “freely”: there is no money in Communism. As simple as that.
And indeed, you are too ignorant for this discussion to continue. Watch the documentaries I posted here if you wanna know more than just what they want you to know.
free? With wich money that free health care is paid ? Btw, to continue with the demagogia I invite you to go to live in one of the fantastic communist countries instead of those terrible and assassins countries of EU. Capitalism, or modern society in general have many bad things, but try to justify communism nowadays.. I’ve no words that doesn’t look offensive to express it
Communism no but left control far more fair and humane than self-righteous and preâždaŝ capitalism!!! The distribution of “blessings” is the question, not the choice between communism and capitalism because both are real filthy systems! Did you understand blâdove :)
Oh yeah in the Stone Age perhaps….or in the mental hospital
We may be stumbling towards it by way of automation. Not quite Marx’s brand, though.
It works only in the minds of isolated thinkers who did not experienced it. Living in cold, with no food communism would look way worse than in their wet unreal dreams.
Same could be said for those living in poverty in capitalist societies. Millions of people go hungry, die because of cold etc in some of the richest countries also.
Partially true. Capitalism has obviously flaws, but in even a bad sorth of it, like my country Romania, a honest working men will have a decent life. Not so in communism where only the party members had opportunities.
I totally agree. I just hope we find better implementations of both. I think both have merit although neither are perfect. Both shown to end up with abuse of power and corruption, starvation and hunger. I’m hoping humanity finds a solution in the middle which inherits the best protections for us all of both.
Prosperity for those who work…protections and a decent life for those who for whatever reason are less fortunate. Above all, holding those in power to account and visibility.of what they are doing.
And less fighting! More love! Trillionaires should never exist while some have less than a buck a day
Nevermind Communism, what about Socialism!
everyone in the comments are SO mad lol
Communism *could* work, but it will never work in an already heavily capitalist country. The relapse and economical impact from such a change would be utterly devastating. It would best work in a small country with good land and an overall morally-correct society.
Sure, capitalism is abbhorently flawed and obviously favors the more fortunate and encourages greed, but it gives opportunity. Just hope you’re not poor.
Say you are poor, what kind of circumstance does that put you in?
Would poor people want more of a fair chance?
The totalitarian, oppressive, government system that relies on stealing from other governments, promises a utopia, and has murdered almost a billion citizens? I’m sorry, what was the question?
This is an interesting discussion for sure. For 65 yr I have been pretty much apolitical . At least as far as the system goes it is disgusting. But perhaps true communism may work to get rid of social injustice based on color, sex and religion or no religion. There are many socioeconomic reasons for them be held back. I am an average white male and see that most of the ones that have succeeded in this country are privileged white kids. Sometimes it makes no difference if you are smart to get ahead. Someone stated “if you are smart and work hard you should get more” . I guess you have to define smart which is usually a product of genetics. If you aren’t smart and work had you get shit on. That’s hardly fair .It’s a very unequal system where the richest rise to political office and make rules for the rest. I myself no longer vote. I know people died for that right. People that in the service were my friends. But the beauty of Democracy is that you have the right to vote or not to. Democracy without capitalism would work.
In my view, removing the profit incentive removes the work incentive. If you told the Class that everyone was going to receive the Mean (average) Class Grade, the D Students would think that the A Students were going to carry them higher. They would relax and settle in for the Free Ride. In the beginning, that might work. However, as soon as the A Students realized that the Average was dropping not matter how hard they worked, they would give up. The more people you carry on your back, the harder it is to walk.
you call 100,000,000 dead bodies a “project”
this is why universities are crumbling.
The main obstacle to communism is the human nature and that can only be changed by God like in the book of Acts 2:43 where believers had all in common,unfortunately marxists don’t believe in God,the gun and the gulags don’t do the job.Stupid peoples don’t need to reply,please.
It’s a nice concept, yeah? I don’t think it’ll ever be viable unless every nation adopts communism, or one movement consolidates the whole damm world. Communism just seems like a fairy land that some adopt because, in practice, it seems GOOD. In THEORY, communism works… but the real world isn’t theory. The issue is whether it’s viable, and it really isn’t.
The world IS unfair. Some people who work hard never get their worth back to them.
For now, I just want to make sure that the top .1% don’t cheat our governments with tax-fraud, sheltered assets, foreign hiding, etc, so that money can be used to aid the less fortunate… cough cough the US should take a hint from Nordic countries (higher tax rates for wealthy, smaller defense budgets that ultimately are for moot- read the ridiculousness of military contracts and overpaying, more social welfare for the poor).
Also, note to the deranged conservatives in here, screaming about Marxists and fantasy ruin brings nothing of merit to discuss.
You sound deluded. Bringing religion to a political discussion proves nothing but your own ineptitude.
Yes, Communism could work in practice but the way of thinking would have to change. Human nature and human error are two diffrerent aspects. Human error will always be a negative aspect that will be present, but with human error communism can still strive. This error could be misvaluing a labor fruit. Human error can be fixed but will be present. Human nature however is the way a human will think under a society. Human nature can be manipulated in a positive change. If communism would want to have a chance in America to strive the human nature would have to change from a selfish, greedy nature by birth (believe it or not this is not how people are by birth in every society-lolz), to a beneficial, success for all.
Communism is a planned economy correct? Surely then resources cannot be allocated as efficiently as the market. The economy is the most complex human creation and if you expect a few people could control it then you are out of your mind. Also under communism prices are decided by the government instead of the actual worth of the labour behind that product ( im sure you all know you dont pay for a product, you pay for the labour behind its creation).
yes i think communism is a very good idea
Humans are naturally lazy. If they don’t have a reason to work, then they won’t. Society needs to progress somehow, and that can only be done if people work, which they will only do if they have a proper motivation pushing them to do so. In a strictly communist society, that’s what will happen. So no, I don’t think communism works. But then again I find most things like capitalism and communism and things similar pretty stupid.
I don’t really understand why humans would ever make things hard for themselves. Like, why have money? Why give things worth? Why did we decide that if someone has more of something, they’re more powerful? Why does inflation exist? Why do we have to even have that as an option?? Why would humans make up downsides to things??? When we could just not have them???? I genuinely don’t see a point in a bunch of political and societal stuff. Why would we create things to bring down the very thing we created?? It all makes no sense.
So who cares whether communism or capitalism is better, I vote that we all just go batshit and do whatever we want. Anarchism for the win.
The reality is it’s necessary to have a mix of both Socialism and Capitalism. You need the chaos and freedom of Capitalism to spark innovation and generate wealth. However, you need some order and something to enforce certain degrees of humanity like with Socialism.
This can be found in places like Norway, which happens to be a country that people tend to love hailing as a success of Socialism. However, they are, in reality, Capitalist countries with freer markets and lower taxes on the rich in comparison to places like the USA. They make up for this with good Socialist aspects and policies, however they align more to Capitalism in the textbook definitions. Socialist aspects doesn’t directly mean something is Socialist, and Capitalism doesn’t directly mean Socialist aspects can’t thrive in such a system.
A fine balance of Capitalism and Socialism allow the lower-class people to rise up in wealth. Socialism on its own takes down the rich in order to attempt equality. However, Capitalism is insanely good at generating wealth, whether you like that fact or not.
A common myth is that the total amount of wealth in the world is static, but that’s not true. Material wealth can be greatly generated. In the 60s, families had just one television. In 2020, we’re attending work and class all online. That’s a huge jump in wealth.
People say “The rich get rich while the poor get poorer” but that’s utter nonsense. Bill Gates made money off of you buying his Microsoft items while you got a sweet new computer. He got money, you got richer in materials. If he never made Microsoft, he wouldn’t be as wealthy as he is now and you wouldn’t be as wealthy as you could’ve been with that computer. In reality, the poor and rich get richer. He didn’t steal anything from you, and his employees gained a fair wage off working for Microsoft.
By lifting up the poor to the rich, everyone wins. On the contrary, taking down the rich will only hurt everyone. In the 1920s, there was a class of the wealthier end of Peasants known as the Kulaks in Ukraine. They were the peasants that had generally 8+ acres of land and could hire other Peasants to help out on the land. The thing to note is the vast majority of the Kulaks were rich because they were experienced and successful farmers. And then Joseph Stalin decided to remove the Kulaks to collectivize the farms. All their land was confiscated, and many were sent to the gulags or executed on the spot. The result were millions of deaths due to famine because all the experienced farmers were dead or in the gulags merely because they were rich over their success. If you were to take down all the rich, you’ll be taking down the rich’s expertise/capabilities to develop wealth and their motivation to work. Why would Steve Jobs invent the Iphone if he wouldn’t get something out of it?
What’s needed is equal opportunity to make it big and an incentive to work. I think it’s horrific when people try to suppress the lower class, but the answer isn’t to just delete the higher class but rather provide equal opportunity for such a role. With that, you develop incentive to work and innovate in a safe and effective manner.
Some would argue that equal outcome is necessary for there to be a truly equal society, but basic mathematical statistics and analysis disagrees. Price’s Law states that 50% of work is done by the square root of the number of employees. The law is so effective that small businesses look at this law very closely to assure they hire employees in a good manner. The only way to get equal outcome is to overthrow the freedom of the individual.
This is because we, as individuals, are all different, with different skills, ideas, and motivations. Equal opportunity allows everyone to unlock their full potential, but not everyone’s potential is equal. People have different IQs, different personalities, different mindsets, different ideals, different mental wiring (like creative or intuitive mindset), and far more other things. You’d have to tear away freedom for there to be an equal outcome, and you can’t do equality of outcome and opportunity simultaneously.
Another myth is that everyone is who they are because of social constructs. This is 50% nonsense. In the nature vs nurture argument, it’s really a balance of both. The genetics of an individual can very accurately determine characteristics of the individual down to even things like which political party they’d side with. However, it depends on the environment they grow up in on if those things develop properly.
I highly encourage anyone reading this to reconsider being anti-capitalist or anti-socialist, because whether you like it or not, you need aspects of BOTH ends for a successful society and economy.
Communism would work if human nature changes. But, the thing about human nature is, it’s human nature… The day we can live in a world without oxygen, is the day communism will work.
I think definitely there is a workable way towards a democratic communist society, but as the professor from the New York community college said , there needs to be material prosperity among the people and the people must have a say in how things are planned so the system can work effectively and there also needs to be a sense of individual freedom as well
Karl marx is my hero, Communism is the greatest form of government <3 Stalins uwu
Define your terms
It is inevitable. Humans will survive only in equal terms and peace
I escaped from communism at the age of 13! Just when I needed it. Whoever asks this question has certainly not tasted communism yet …
This is the second time I’ve seen this question … I’ll say one more thing! The third time I don’t comment … The first time I said how is it possible for communism to reach the place where the Renaissance was? As a former history buff, I can say that nothing is forever. The Roman Empire did not resist, the Phoenicians went too … The question is asked perversely but it is asked a second time … if he had to choose something new it would make sense! But that’s how it looks like maybe Europe has come to an end …
Perhaps it can, but we should not call it communism! Social democracy in Scandinavian countries succeeds very well to organise redistribution in a fair and transparent way. For example Denmark has a 65% top bracket income tax and a 150% tax on car purchase, that pays for a lot of things, such as a functioning and free health care and a free education system where students are paid 1000eur for up to 7 years of university. Result? Better education and healthier people are more happy and work higher paid jobs .. which pays more taxes. It’s a circle of virtue, but the condition is transparency and efficiency to avoid corruption and disillusionment.
I thought that this kind of silly topic was over after Gorbatchev
Whoever thought this was a proper question to pose is an idiot, simply put. The problem is not capitalism, the problem is greedy corporations that go unchecked by corrupt politicians. Communism never worked and never will. Only a complete ignorant would think so, and usually it’s the same ignorants that state it was not implemented properly.
No. Stop asking this shit! We need social measures but communism is a whole nother level of mess
Communism is an utopia which has not successfully implemented yet. However, Deng Xiao Ping was so clever to suggest a Socialism in Chinese characteristics, which is a very long transition from socialism to communism. The Communist Party of China believes that as a transition, it ought to allow the coexistence of capitalist and socialist economy. A powerful Communist Party to supervise the executives so as to government that can right the wrongs of capitalism and to maintain social harmony. Instead of winning the government with blank cheques and election campaigns, the CPC appears to win its legitimacy to govern by good governance and to fulfill the 5-Year Plans. As we can see that the CPC does not only achieve double digit GDP growth for over three decades, it has successfully reduced poverty and now developing towards common prosperity by discouraging monopoly…Of course, all systems are designed to be good. It depends highly on leadership and government quality.
What a data of un-ambiguity and preserveness of valuable knowledge regarding unpredicted feelings.
does it only depend on human nature?
No, and neither does capitalism. Both systems involve the exploitation and control of the weak by the strong. The evidence for this can be seen in the school playground. Some children are willing to share their sweets because it gives them pleasure to share. They are a minority. Others are greedy and don’t want to share, or don’t see why they should if they’ve had to work to earn them and others haven’t. The bullies snatch the sweets and distribute them to their own particular gang to consolidate their power. Children are born with these different traits, just as ants are, and in a perfect society they would each have a place in the colony best suited to them. However, humans are not ants and have free will, which has to be oppressed for them to function within a colony. Therefore, all systems lead to oppression and invariably it’s the playground bullies who end up in control.
Looking at the hundred of million of dead bodies IT has produced in the various “socialist” states in modern history i say:
IT WORKS PERFECTLY.
IT can destroy an economy and a nation extremely well.
National Socialism and Fascism pale in comparison, they actually provide something else apart from dead bodies..
..wait you actually think communism is supposed to produce wealth or freedom? oh silly you
p.s. I would like to see the same post but with “Could Fascism ever work in practice?” or “Could NazionalSocialism ever work in practice?”
No
Depends. In an alternate reality or in a far future where people no longer have to compete for resources or a place to live and reproduce and hence don’t need a government is more ideal than communism, so why not strive for that? Reality is too complex and dynamic, things change all the time, and often we realize that we no longer care for what we cared for yesterday. I feel that working towards any ism is intrinsically anachronistic.