What should we think about the legacy of Karl Marx? Clearly, he was an important and influential thinker. Many of the rights and benefits we enjoy today (including labour rights and worker protection) were won by people inspired by his philosophy. Nevertheless, millions of people were murdered in his name over the course of the 20th Century by despotic regimes and terrorist groups. Was he, in any way, responsible for these deaths? Or should we separate his original ideas from what came after?
After the fall of the Soviet Union, it seemed like Marx had been proved definitively wrong. However, since the 2008 financial crisis some commentators have been arguing that capitalism is in “crisis” and Marxism is “on the rise” once more. They don’t always use the banner of “Communism” or “Marxism”, but their radical counter-capitalist ideas are gaining political credence (particularly in Europe). We think this trend deserves further discussion and debate.
May 2018 marked the 200th anniversary of the birth of Karl Marx, and February 2018 was the 170th anniversary of the publication of the Communist Manifesto. To mark these dates, Debating Europe is launching a series of online discussions dedicated to examining the impact and legacy of Marx and his writings.
What do our readers think? We had a comment sent in from Ruth, who wonders what “Marxism” actually means, and whether the ideologies that came after Marx – Maoism, Stalinism, and Leninism – can still be accurately described as “Marxist”?
To get a response, we spoke to Luigi Marco Bassani, Professor of the History of Political Theory at the University of Milan, Italy. What would he say?
That was a big question in the 1970s, and even the ’80s. What is the orthodoxy of Marxism? I think that orthodox Marxism was pretty much gone by 1899, after the revisions of Marxism proposed by Eduard Bernstein and the first disciples of Karl Marx and Engels and so on. So, that was the end. There was no more revolutionary programme, it was just to use the state to improve the condition of the working class. That was Marxism at the beginning of the century.
Then the Bolsheviks came, and Lenin, and that changed everything. Lenin had success. You know how many Bolsheviks there were in August 1917, right before the revolution? There were no more than 70’000 in all the Russian Empire. So, they proved extremely effective as a revolutionary Communist party that can change history. So, at that point, clearly Marxism became Leninsm, which is something really different from what Karl Marx thought…
For another perspective, we put the same question to Simon Tormey, Professor of Political Theory at the University of Sydney. How would he respond?
That’s a great question from Ruth, and very difficult to answer. Go back to basics; Marx wrote fifty volumes of writings, and whilst there is a remarkable consistency in those writings, it’s nevertheless true that we’re looking at an enormous body of work written from basically the 1840s up to the 1880s, with an evolution in his method, evolution in the topics he was covering, and also the way he wanted to cover them. So, there isn’t one Marx or one ‘Marxism’…
So, this leads you to the second part of the question: What about Trostkyism, Maoism, Stalinism, and so on? These are all readings of Marx, in the same way we have Presbyterians, Protestants, Catholics, and so on. Where you’ve got texts, and interpretations of texts, you then have different schools of thought and different modes of practice. And none of those are right or wrong – Catholics can’t say they have a better interpretation of the Bible than Protestants – but they’re all legitimate. Some of them, of course, are able to base their arguments and ideas on very clear doctrinal views that Marx held over a long time, and others take maybe idiosyncratic passages and inflate them into something that really didn’t have the same importance attached to them by Marx. But that’s the we’ve got a lot of different “isms” under the bracket of Marxism. Lots and lots of texts, lots of interpretation of texts, and of course 150 years worth of people trying to make sense of it and putting their own spin on things.
We also had a comment from Bernd, who wondered how we should feel about the legacy of Karl Marx. Is it possible to separate Karl Marx and his writings from the history of violence and mass murder perpetrated in his name?
However, the thing is that if you take a very strict Marxist analysis, then Marx and Engels would be held responsible only for the death of people during the revolution. So, the Long March of Mao, the October Revolution, and so on. They just thought there would be a revolutionary moment, and then a little bit of dictatorship of the proletariat, but that would resolve itself with almost no violence at all. In the third book of Das Kapital, Karl Marx proposes that capitalism will eventually just dissolve, without violence.
Clearly, what actually happened was very different… But if you study the history of a guy like Pol Pot, who clearly ran one of the most murderous regimes in the history of Socialism, you cannot forget that the guy studied in Paris in the 1950s, when all these Marxist ideologies were going around, and he was trying to take the ideology of Karl Marx to the extremes. If you read Das Kapital, there is no place for violence. If you read what came after and are inspired by the Marxist Utopia, and want to remake the whole world, then it’s like the French Revolution and Robespierre. You use a small group of people and cleanse the whole world… So, it’s ‘Yes’ and ‘No’. There’s no clear-cut answer.
Finally, what would Professor Simon Tormey say?
Really, Marx wasn’t very keen on followers. He always admonished those followers who implied he had all the answers. He was very against that, and was very anti-Utopian and anti-orthodoxy. I think we should really take him at his word, and really use his theoretical legacy very careful. But we do need to think about political practice in the round; I don’t think there’s an appetite for creating a kind of monolithic Communist party, or a very vertical entity with very clear set of elites who understand or comprehend Marxism. But I think he gives us access to hope as well, because he says capitalism is a human invention, it’s a creation of ourselves, and just as we create capitalism, so we can create other kinds of society, and we can also celebrate those kind of societies which are resisting capitalism. So, there’s a lot of interest in indigenous social movements, or co-production, or other kinds of initiatives, and we can really build from and learn from those other kinds of practices to be thinking about a kind of radical politics which is non-dogmatic, not doctrinaire, and which is not creating a new caste of elites…
Was Karl Marx right about the evils of capitalism? What should we think about his legacy? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
369 comments Post a commentcomment
Karl Marx is the evil himself. His ideology killed 120 millions in XX century.
120 trillions i think.
It wasn’t Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao and so on.
Elena Henriques in his name
The only book wich say such a lie is the Black Book of Communism wich was written by an anti-communist. The black book of capitalism said Capitalism killed 320 millions of people mh? MArx was a writer wich didn’t killed no one, Lenin was a revolutionary then you have several dictators wich killed million of people like Stalin and Mao. But the socialism have nothing to do with that.
If socialism have nothing to do with Lenin and Stalin, what was the ideology of Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim il-sung, Enver Hoxha, Ceacescu, etc?
Rui Santiago: Ceauşescu.
It isn’t Karl Marx that’s guilty of the killings, it was the people who implemented or patterned their work to Marx’s ideology. It’s because the leaders who killed millions got a bad picture from mass murdering and when traced back it shows that they want to pattern it to Marx’s ideology but that wasn’t what Karl Marx wanted nor even said on how to make his ideology work, it was the leaders that did the killings, not his ideology or himself.
TLDR: It’s because of the bad picture that the leaders got with following/patterning their work to Marx’s ideology THAT made Karl Marx and his ideology have a bad picture when really, he didn’t really say much on how to make his ideology real nor did he say to kill millions just to make his ideology work.
Shorter TLDR: blame the leaders who made the killings, not Karl Marx because he made the ideology without saying anything for a must to kill people.
I thought Hitler was the one who killed millions…and where are all the bodies that a Marxist ideology supposably killed???
Wherever communism touches everything dies…
Now days you can see communism from space … Check last post on my wall
Stop making people think communism is ok. You communist scums will fail again and again
What’s that black boot taste like?
What are you talking about? Delusional socialist
Capitalism isn’t either better…
Why? Because you are lazy?
Stop expecting shit for free
No, because it’ll silly to believe that everyone of us will drive a Ferrari one day! Maybe do you have others planets to get your dream?
It is silly to believe that you own other people fortune. Taxation os theft. Back to work
Yes, little slave, you said all!
Slave? What?
No no nothing about him is right. Actually he is in the far left
It’s so left that actually merges with far right.
No no nothing about him is right. Actually he is in the far left
No no nothing about him is right. Actually he is in the far left
No no nothing about him is right. Actually he is in the far left
Communists killed millions of people!! And Marx started this killing machine!
Capitalism with colonialism has killed many more people than comunism ;)
Like nazism, comunism and Marx should be forbbiden
Everything who ends with ism…
Well done!
One just needs to look at the environmental degradation of our planet along with the corporate violation of millions if not billions of poor people (whose hard work and sacrifice count for diddly squat) to see how capitalism favors only a small elite. Communism has its flaws, but capitalism more often than not has been a selfish system for some who only think about themselves before others
So odd… I could swear you were describing communism for a second.
La F Ham The number of people living in extreme poverty worldwide declined by 85 percent from 1970 to today because of capitalism. Marxist/Communist countries take freedom & prosperity and destroys it leaving everyone in poverty.
Capitalism ❤️
To what end?
Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers let’s not forget that the last 35 odd years capitalism has had a change of deregulation. It’s crony capitalism to blame for todays austerity.
SAME BULLSHIT…
Agreed. What we detest is crony capitalism not capitalism itself.
Agreed. What we detest is crony capitalism not capitalism itself.
No matter what excuses you pull out there is no excuse for 100 million dead world wide and the fact that neo communism is ripe today especially in europe… but communists have excuses and double standards for everything, its is destructive its common denominator is to bring the not elite to Zero and there is nothing communual about it except the shared bullying to conform
One builds, the other takes eveything away til there is nothing, worst of all about communism is that it eats itself, a form of cannibalism which the slaves love to watch with honour as if it is progress
No matter what excuses you pull out there is no excuse for 100 million dead world wide and the fact that neo communism is ripe today especially in europe… but communists have excuses and double standards for everything, its is destructive its common denominator is to bring the not elite to Zero and there is nothing communual about it except the shared bullying to conform
One builds, the other takes eveything away til there is nothing, worst of all about communism is that it eats itself, a form of cannibalism which the slaves love to watch with honour as if it is progress
No matter what excuses you pull out there is no excuse for 100 million dead world wide and the fact that neo communism is ripe today especially in europe… but communists have excuses and double standards for everything, its is destructive its common denominator is to bring the not elite to Zero and there is nothing communual about it except the shared bullying to conform
One builds, the other takes eveything away til there is nothing, worst of all about communism is that it eats itself, a form of cannibalism which the slaves love to watch with honour as if it is progress
No matter what excuses you pull out there is no excuse for 100 million dead world wide and the fact that neo communism is ripe today especially in europe… but communists have excuses and double standards for everything, its is destructive its common denominator is to bring the not elite to Zero and there is nothing communual about it except the shared bullying to conform
One builds, the other takes eveything away til there is nothing, worst of all about communism is that it eats itself, a form of cannibalism which the slaves love to watch with honour as if it is progress
Marx’s theories are still very accurate, that is one thing, ideology-based upon Marx is another thing. His model for analysing history is very accurate.
There are evils associated with capitalism – without a shadow of a doubt.
However, socialism has given us:
Murderous Russian Communism.
Murderous German National Socialism.
Murderous Chinese Communism.
Murderous Khmer Rouge Communism.
with a combined death exceeding 100,000,000 human beings.
Socialism, in extremis, is far more dangerous than Capitalism!
know make the count of human loss caused by capitalism… yes…that hard truth that no one likes to talk about because we are not murdering no one per sei. We only look the other way while childs are forced to work for a dollar a day so we can have a fancy shirt… I guess you prefered not to think the damaging effects of capitalism also. That was wrong.
Not often hear this name …
What’s wrong with you?
They are asking as if his theories never caused the biggest blood bath in history.
It’s just funny like as if I would say, lets debate the Hitler’s theories which comparing to communism don’t differ as much in the outcome. And I thought Debating Europe is an independent organization. Silly me! 🤣🤣
It would be comedic if it wouldn’t be so sad.
Ideology that killed 120 000 000 of people is leading ideology od European Union. What will be next? The birth anniversary of Adolf Hitler? Joseph Stalin?
Yes
Who need of K.Marx’s theory or opinion? In the world is not anymore capitalism., we are push back to feudalism, under so clall global economy and global military doctrine !
He was always the least of the Marx Brothers. Didn’t even have a sense of humour.
Karl Marx is an enemy of mankind.
He died since a long time!
Every Communist, Marxist and Socialist is an enemy of peace and prosperity.
Max’s ideas are very much alive and among us. The whole internationalism is based on Marx.
Marx was wanted to get rid of
– capital
– families, because they tend to accumulate capital
– fundamental values
– identity
– nations and the nation state.
Today’s mainstream liberals are marxists and work on implementing Marx’s ideas with the exception of being opposed to capital. Instead they tend to facilitate the accumulation of capital in as few hands as possible.
Without capitalism we would not have an internet nor a computer to have this discussion on. Capitalism has its faults, just like every system, but it is by far the best system we’ve ever had, and it has brought wealth and prosperity to more people than anything before.
By letting the others peoples on side? Not sure, this will continue for years…
There will most likely always be people “left out”. The all-inclusive society is a myth. That being said, capitalism is currently eradicating poverty in the world at quite a pace.
That’s why over 1 human on 7 on this planet doesn’t have enough water for a day!
EradicatING. As in: ongoing, not there yet. But what would be the better alternative to capitalism?
Wait until the system will collapse…
That’s not an answer to the question. It’s a doom prophecy the likes of which we have been hearing about for decades. A crisis, yes, but a total collapse? Suuuure. And again: what system do we go for instead then?
I do not know, I’m not diviner! The collapse may not be brutal, but the nature will already put us on our place, do you bet?
I’m not asking you to be a diviner. I’m asking which system we should use if capitalism is the wrong one. Right now, today, if you could choose a system, what would it be?
So nasically you want to keep everyone down because if/qhen a crysis come the fall wouldn’t be that great…. #Logic
Well, did someone notice that Marx writings and communisms are truly separate things?
Oh yes! Karl Marx was absolutely right about the evils of capitalism but he totally missed – deliberately or maybe only unintentionally by ignorance – the horrendous sides of socialism. Gulags are just one lethal side of these evils.
Theae evils of capitaliam were fixed long time ago
Oh and yes, i love u Capitalism❤️
If you are satisfied with crumbs, little slave …
So funny you communists. If I don’t agree with you I’m called a slave. But I thought you stand for rights such as freedom to expression? 🤣🤣🤣
Don’t worry about, the both are bullshits! Just a question: where do you search all the ressources for the mankind and your dream? Do you imagine them? Or you’ll promise everybody will drive a Ferrari one day?
Gosh ur boring man! Lightne up ;)
Beautiful arguments…
Sorry, but where exactly did I agree to a discussion? Im really not interested in that and I dont think u are relevant enough for me to loose time to get into this. Lets just agree to disagree ;)
I don’t care if you agree or not, I expose you just the reality, it’ll silly to believe that everyone of us will drive a Ferrari one day! Maybe do you have others planets to get your dream?
I dont really like Ferarris. So hopefully not everyone will have them 😂😂😂
I have a love affair with capitalism. There is just something about gulag that turns me off. 💕
Tinkara Oblak nothing says freedom and emancipation from slavery more than confiscation of private property and shared bunk 🛏 in gulag. 🤣
Ah, the eastern europans, watched too much hollywoodians movies… Oblak, give me your money, I don’t have enough to buy my 100th Ferrari, it’s not my problem if you like or not, I just want all! Continue to dream well!
On the one hand..100s of millions killed in the name of his flawed ideology in the other billions lifted out of absolute poverty thru trade.
Of course, the dangers of capitalism, emphasized by Marx, are real. The proof of how dangerous they are is the major inequalities created in our global society. The rich get richer and the poor, even working a lifetime and more than many rich people, get poorer as the fluctuation of the market economy isn’t accompanied by pay. Our greatest threat is, what we live today, neoliberalism, a great-grandson of capitalism, who puts us in a state of savage capitalism.
Those who had studied Marks and his monumental studies would understand that he does not deny the progress and further development of economy in capitalism. Like any other socio-economic system, Capitalism is more progressive that the previous one. Surely with more production, there will be more consumption and this is what people have seen in capitalism compare e.g to feudalism. The problem is not about mass production, technology and scientific development which have inormously increased and with that the surplus has gone to the roof too.. The key is the distribution of the production. Who is benefiting most: the ones who produces the goods or the ones that own the means of production, where is the value of surplus going too? Of course a very small percentage will have to go to people to keep them quiet. In this “wonderful” system as some portray it, the gap between rich and poor is getting wider, a 1% of people in the world own 50% of world`s wealth. This clearly shows that Capitalism is Evil. The Socialist Revolution triumphed in October 1917 in Russia which was still in Feudalism, was an underdeveloped country so the economic and social factors were not ready for the total transformation to jump from feudalism to Communism by passing the Capitalism system. Had the revolution succeeded in a developed country such as England or USA then the story would have been completely different. https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/14/worlds-richest-wealth-credit-suisse
so?
Him being right about the dangers of capitalism doesn’t make his ideology a crime.
The man advocated violence in his writing.
That should be a big red sign (pun intended)!
Basically every country in the world was born following violence against the previous governors. In the end, a state is the centralization of violence. Neither the American War of Independence, nor the massacres of American Indians, nor the Secession war, nor the British civil war nor the French revolution were rhetorical debates.
USA, UK and France, after laying down the foundation of the state with violence, used further violence by enslaving, either in colonies or in their own territory, millions of people, just to entertain much less prople with toys called “freedom”, “democracy”.
f..k comunist murdurer there is the same writinings on the coran
Capitalism was invented when a cave man traded a chunk of meat for some salt and spears. It has been used by humankind ever since. Sure, it is not perfect. And today governments should put some restraints on it (instead of the other way around).
The human race as a whole is (psychologically) not suited for a communist society. There will always be ego, jealousy and expectation for a certain work-reward ratio.
Well, that is trade, not capitalism per se. Communist societies in any shape and form, even the idealistic original one, accept and even encourage trande between the members of the collective, but the accent is put less on the process itself and more on the benefit of the collective.
Capitalism actually appeared in antiquity, with the use of gold and actual money, along with the accumulation of resources as profit.
This doesn’t mean capitalism is bad. On the contrary. We can see capitalism even in our bodies, through the exchange of material between tissues as a goal. It’s the very essence of life, among other things.
Capitalism, by definition, implies that most of the wealth that a society produces comes from workers who get a salary. It is better to live with a salary than to be a serf, better to be a serf than a slave, better to be a slave than to be killed because your land is more fertile than your enemy’s.
Human race found psycologically normal to stone women because they had sex without been married, exterminate industrially millions of people just because their surname was Something-berg, Something-else-stein or Something-different-man; cutting limbs to four year children in order to punish their parents who did not collect enough rubber is also well within human capabilities, as the Belgians showed us about 150 years ago.
I really do not see the psycological problem in going to work and living better, since you do not need to pay taxes for tanks, aircraft, rifles and people who is ready to use them to slaughter fellow human beings.
1.seems that many here did not understand that we are talking about his view and theory about capitalism….
2.seems that many did not even read anything about him.
3. those who criticise here are mostly talking about how the communists in different countries were using his theory to murder people….something he was not in favour of doing.
So..we are talking about a theory that some distorted and used in an evil way.
OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE!! Capitalism have killed millions of people until today, but the worldwide political system is driven by the capitalistic ideology so no one will talk about this. Worker’s are everyday exploited, wars are made by countries to gain more power and resources to export and import more goods, corporations are becoming more important then the countries themselves.. Only one third of the human population is having access to the human rights… This is done in the name of the profit.USA bring little wars all over the world using its economical and military power to expand its influence, European countries still exploit Africa trhought corporation cause of its resources and Africa will never develop cause of this.. Because if Africa get developed the price of the goods will go up and the western consumers will buy less! Marx never talked about a one man Dictatorship and who think that it is the real communism is just a friend of thedictators or nationalist… Marx talked dictatorship of the proletarians: masses expressing themselves throught councils, worker’s holding the meaning of the production!! We must try to leave the individualist way to think brought to us by capitalism and swift to a new social way to think. We can’t care more about numbers and money then people, because people are the most important resource! Europe have all the resources to adopt a new form of more democratical socialism wich aim to redistribution of the wealth and i guess Europe will be our only hope in the future to make a peaceful Revolution aiming for a more equal society.. Someday in the future, the poors will rise and they will not be the European poors, but the 2/3 of the population wich live in the rest of the world.
The man who created an ideology responsible for more dead bodies than any other. Will you be marking the births of Joseph Stalin & Adolf Hitler & asking if their ideologies are better than capitalism too ?
What about Islam?
Seriously? Debating on the Hatemonger Duo – K. Marx and F. Engels -of the Leftists who declared, that: ““The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way” and “are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm” is quite a freudian slip :-( …
You don’t really understand it do you hahahaha.
Funny how every halfwit libleft understands better – you’d deserve a time travel into the peak of communist reign and terror in the name of K. Marx :-( …
Rob Parry oh, yeah, politically rhetoric bias…
Vaggelis Upteam
ουστ αθεοι κομμουνιστε
Yes.
All Eastern European was excited to study Marks&angels dum shit
All Eastern European was excited to study Marks&angels dum shit
All Eastern European was excited to study Marks&angels dum shit
The nightmare of Eastern Europe
And of the world, actually
In capitalism, if a product is not successful and people do not buy it, the company that makes it either improves it or ditches it before it is too late.
In communism, the government forces you to buy what they offer you, no matter how bad it is!
So hurting true in which we’ve been living for years.. Those debating europe enthusiasts and tourists to Kuba : I advise , go to north korea , change your tourist targets , and stop talking stupidities .
Yes of Course he was bloody right
or bloody left? ;)
Gönczi Attila well yeah
What about the evils of communism, of which none of you knuckle heads knows about?
Mihai Dobai
1984 by George Orwell.
The worst part of capitlaism is that it gives in to popular shit to make money, one such thing being the warped image of what you call communism.
Otherwise, it’s a really good system.
The impact? At least 20 mil people killed. But it seems it’s not enough.
100*
You need to count also the ones who were not killed: some more millions of Jews and most of the population of countries like Poland of Russia (tens and tens of millions) should the Nazi have won.
No; he was wrong…
Is this a sign that neo-marxism is living with us? Or is just a moment of lack of attention that you are writing what you really think…
Anything built onto greed will fail.
So the days of the almighty state are numbered.
No Giacomo Consalez the basis of communiam is greed, that why it always fail
Capitalism eta suka-bliad:)
People who series capitalism should reflect on the benefits it has brought .. refer to the in millennium goals. ..absolute poverty reduced by half. .access to drinking water increases from 76% to 91% of global population. Several other metrics.. enabled in the main, not thru aid … but by trade.. which increases and spreads wealth
Would do even more if we could demolish the protectionist policies of the EU which inhibits fair trade with poorer nations
“the protectionist policies of the EU”? Can you call them to me please? I don’t see them very well, just liberalism….
Remi the basis of the common customs tariffs is to protect European producers…mainly farmers. …thats why the tariffs on agricultural goods are so high. For Germany will import coffee beand from kenya at a low tariff…but imposed a very high one for ground coffee…the result is that Germany makes more money out of exporting the finished coffee..than does Kenya from producing the raw material.
This eu is replicated for most raw materials.. it meabs 3rd world countries are penalised if they try to add value to their goods and always hit by the variations in commodity prices.
No, no and no.
Maybe…
Yes he was, but he didn’t realize that his theories unleashed an even greater evil
Marx was closer to the reality than say Hayek and prevailing today neoliberal dogma. Keynes even better. The stigmatization of Marxism comes from the fact that it was idiotically applied in backward 20th century states like almost feudal Russia, Romania and Vietnam, instead of UK, Germany or France. It was meant for the most developed capitalist states.
Nowhere was Marxism rightly applied. Because it cannot be rightly applied. Because it is fucking wrong!
And it was applied in Germany.
Soviet idiotic style. And East Germany paid heavily war reparations for 15 years.
It needs to be said that Russia was really backwards in 1917 and serfdom had been abolished only in 1861. But before collapsing, USSR brought illiteracy rate to 10% from 90% in ten years, defeated the Nazi, who had conquered almost all the rest of Europe without difficulty, and sent the first person in the space.
Vietnam, as well, defeated the strongest military power and is now one of the fastest growing Asian economies.
Marx closer to reality???
Marx ideas are sooo against human nature is not efen funny…
You are incorrect, we had Marxism in the UK in the 1970’s and it nearly destroyed us. Only an idiot on a suicide mission would try it again.
You didn’t have any Marxism in UK whatsoever. You had Keynesianism and since Thatcher, Hayek’s neoliberal dogma.
In fact I am glad that this pervasive across the Globe neoliberal dogma will lead to such a disaster in one or two decades, that Marx an Keynes will be re-born.
Marx was closer to the reality than say Hayek and prevailing today neoliberal dogma. Keynes even better. The stigmatization of Marxism comes from the fact that it was idiotically applied in backward 20th century states like almost feudal Russia, Romania and Vietnam, instead of UK, Germany or France. It was meant to be applied completely differently to the most developed capitalist states.
Karl Marx was right about exploatation a human being by the human being. This was not changed in our modern history. This economic mechanism is existing right now. And this destabilizes our community at the period of a crisis.
Világ proletárjai bocsássatok meg neki.
I am shocked to see that the ideas of this idiot are still promoted today. I lived for 18 years in communism, during Ceausescu’s regime. It was hell. Why doesn’t anybody emigrate to North Korea or Cuba? All these leftards who make such a fuss over stupid ideas, why don’t they go live in the communist “heaven” in North Korea? I did not hear of anybody moving to East European countries, before 1989. And still a lot of retarded leftists praise the communism, living out of capitalist taxes.
North Korea and Cuba are two totally different countries. North Korea totally removed any reference to socialism or communism in the constitution.
Anyway, they are remarkable examples of countries which managed to stay indipendent in face of powerful enemies. There aren’t as well many immigrants to countries like Ethiopia, Yemen, Burma, Bolivia, which never had a socialist regime.
If we need to draw a balance, we can see that most of the people who ever lived under “communism” were Chinese, and China was a third world country before the revolution, while now is becoming the first superpower. Russia, one of the most backwards countries in Europe, after the revolution, defeated Nazis, became the second most powerful country and sent the first man into space.
Vietnam stopped being a colony and defeated French, Japanese and Americans, before becoming one of the strongest Asian economies.
I do not think that any of these countries was really socialist (for sure not communist), but if we call “communist” any country which claims to be so, on average communist countries are the ones who progressed fastest.
Carlo Federico Lami and yet the Soviet Union broke down and became bankrupt and broke down in 1991. China is slowly abandoning communism and is capitalizing their economy, which is why it is growing so fastly, North Korea is a conplete and utter mess with people starving, 80% of people in Venezuala live in poverty and Cuba is one of the poorest nations in the Americas. So can you now justify the concepts of socialism and communism? Both have been tried several times, and have always failed whatsoever.
Carlo Federico Lami
Carlo Federico Lami, I assume you’re moving to North Korea, aren’t you. As long as you’re such an admirer…
Carlo Federico Lami But about Venezuela?
Carlo Federico Lami typical That wasn’t real communism…
Are you retards? Come see my country after 50 years of Marxism. It will not recover for other 100.
Then, begin to work…
Whatever happened, if also your fellow citizens think that they can keep blaming the present failure on the previous government for a century, you do not have a problem; you are the problem.
My friend, you undertsood NOTHING.
http://tassosanastassopoulos.blogspot.com/2018/01/slow-motion-mikhail-bakunin.html
Yes, Marx was right. No dout.
And yet all countries that implementes his policies were or are bankrupt. Take a look at Venezuela and tell me if Karl Marx was “always right.”
Ha, ha, ha….
Carl Sebastian Steenekamp , Take a look at China, Vietnam..Оr, may be at Haiti, Jamaika, Salvador…:)
His ideas doomed Eastern Europe for 50+ years an you wanna celebrate?
Eastern Europe was doomed by an agreement of two very democratic leaders Churchill and Roosevelt with Stalin in Yalta!
To fight nazism, omg, it’s horrible!
Nucu Popi Not Germany and Russia ?
Andrada
https://youtu.be/yWP6Qki8mWc
No, Marx was wrong, Mises was right.
False. Mises was wrong.
Gheorghita Zbaganu Of course comrade Zbaganu. “One, Two, Three, Four, frag the Rich to Feed the Poor!” ✊💪🤣
Ni, he was left.
It was a headache to Russia! His thesis was misinterpreted !
yes…and so?!
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Marx (Groucho Marx)
Legacy of rivers of blood and 100’s of millions living under opression…
Lies. I have lived 40 years in Socialist Romania. It was a better country than Capitalist Romania.
No USSR means Nazis all over the world
Gheorghita Zbaganu ori ai fost nomenclaturist, ori nu ai memorie.
Tell it to the people that died in gulacks, the people that died in China and the victims of Pol Pot.
Gheorghita Zbaganu what capitaliat România?
Perhaps, but there are many countries who have a few words to say about the evils of communism…
If we balance good and evil we get a plus. Even State Socialism was better than nowaday capitalism
Gheorghita Zbaganu yea you are absilutely right… Mass starvation is always a plus when compared to today capitalism.
Gheorghita Zbaganu Based on What exactly ? Capitalism as raised billions of people worldwide out of poverty while Socialism as only put people into poverty. Socialism is a cancer to society where ever it is tried.
it’s wonderful to see all those eastern europeans wich accuse communism and socialism. Eastern europe lived under dictatorship with state runned economy, socialism can use different way and for sure more democratical, but you don’t seem to understand. That is why many eastern countries go full right wing or nationalist destroying their countries again… But at same they accuse socialist. It’s better have a laugh then debate with these. If we have to talk about the dictatorships with capitalist economy then we shall speak
about 3 hundreds million of dead.. Shall we?
When a dog is barking too much, we kill it saying that he has rabies …
Eastern European countries are small and divided and their destiny is to be dominated by either Germany or Russia. This is because of geography, since it kept happening since long before Marx was born.
Now the same old story: Hungary and Poland are again into their chihuahua nationalism, Germany is on the rise and Russia will have to save again Europe from itself. The rest is rhetoric.
Says a red western mommas boy…probably living from Daddy State and that hasnt worked a single day in his life..you southern progressive leeches…
Eastern Europe lived under Communism – The Cancerous Ideology that came with the package of Dictatorship and State Run Economy, Poverty and Death in GULAG … plus in 2018 the latest attempts to kill free speech so we have a full blown comeback… you commie scums should all be helicoptered if not into the Sea at least in a commie country like Venezuela where you can praise the benefits of Socialism all night all day.
you shall be helicoptered in african country with a capitalist dictatorship meanwhile there is a civil war strife on. Seems a good exchange, no? ;) Maybe you will undesrtand that dictatorship is not equal to socialism one day, i hope it is as soon as possible! :D
Probably good ideas, unfortunately used like banners by monsters to achieve their antihuman plans, same like Holly Bible used by inquisition…. :(
Let’s not forget that in the name of Jesus Christ people were burned, hanged and tortured also in the name of Allah some people are putting bombs and shooting in the streets now days. a
Are we talking about Karl Marx’s works or about people who used his works to justify their power and the state terrorism they imposed on their countries. Each one of the communist dictator took from Marx what ever suited his goals. Communism in China was different(and some how opposed to)from that of Soviet Union and that of tov. Ceausescu.
Comparatia cu crestinismul e hilara.
Peste 100 milioane de victime sub comunism, inclusiv fenomenul Pitesti.
Zilnic sunt crestini si musulmani ucisi sub terorismul islamic, azi, acum.
Si punem crestinismul langa astea toate, cand aceasta cultura, alaturi de antici si clasici, a civilizat omenirea????
Jenant.
Ai idee cati amerindieni au fost ucisi in numele crestinismului? Popoare intregi
Marx and communism are byproducts of capitalism. If there was no capitalism there woudn’t be any “Marx” or “communists”. Therefore capitalism is guilty of every killing in this planet, either made by communists or capitalists…
Obvious! Unfortunately, he never knowed the real communism! From where people was fleded all the time! PS – Chinese Communism has nothing to do with Marxism!
It doesn’t matter if you call it Communism, Marxism or socialism, its all cancer.
And what you say is nazism also! Take it slower! Be politically correct! By the way: the Americans has begin to like the Chinese cancer!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/09/15/slowly-americans-moving-to-china/#f6851407e53d
I guess you don’t have something better to do…..
WTF?
Gala
interesting debate, unfortunately a bunch of illiterate assholes commented
300 mil
Go To Venezuela, bye
Why?
D’aia
De bou ce esti?
Or Somalia
Somalia is anarchist not socialist
The only difference between an anarchist & a socialist is anarchists don’t have a supreme leader.
Alessio Sacquegna
Karl Marx wwas a criminal.
No he wasn’t.
Xenophon Angelopoulos but his policies made sure millions of people lived in poverty in the name of “socialism.” Take a look at Venezuela.
He was not a criminal. He was a very clever Jew who understood perfectly well the systhem in which he used to live.
Xenophon Angelopoulos From this reason the Greeks want to live in comunism
Diana Erhardt Did you red the Manifest of Communist Party by Karl Marx, in which Marx urge the workers to kill all people that he considered as bourgeois?
I have read it. You either haven’t or are a functional illiterate or both.
Without his socialist ideas, we would still living in the wild capitalism of 19 century, without the rights that workers have today (trade unions, right to strikes, fairly codes of labor, etc). Nevertheless, his ideas about a communist society were utopian and in practice they led to the restraint of fundamental rights.
Nobody sees the rivers of blood produced by capitalism especially in their colonies?! Marx theories have nothing in common with the Eastern Europe’s communism. It’s ridiculous to see the opinion of the people who obviously have never read a word he wrote.
Communist countries had colonies to and they exploited them harder
You don’t need to read Marx’s work to understand it, just look at the disaster his ideology has created in ‘every’ country that tried it. How many deaths do socialists need before they give up on a failed political system ?
Compare what we live again,after the victory of capitalism,and anybody will understand that Marxism and communism is what we need,and it comes from the future,not from the past ,east Europe and Asia!
Jesus, you are such an idiot
You speak about yourself bloody fascist!!
You are nothing but a useful idiot… Marx work is only used today to push corporatism and a bigger government.
You all newliberalist fascists got together for making antimarxistik-anticommunistic propaganta:we don’ t need it in order to understand that classwar goes harder and harder!!! So,you may continue your propaganda agaist us but we,the working class,will continue our fight against your global tyranny!!!
Come to Transylvania and we will kick your red ass…
Greece’s problem were created by socialism, not capitalism.
Fuck off fascist!Talking about capitalism in Rumania,remember that is so poor that parents take your little boys to get fucked because the whole family is hungry and peple burn themselves!!Of cource you don’ t see reality beside you( because it’ s not yours!)and you …travel to Venezuela to find your anticommunism.Long Live the International Revolution of the Workin Class!!!
How stupid and out of politics you can be???Can you remind me when the communist party was goverment in Greece???hahaha…
Karl Marx and Santa Claus are the same person.
You are a neo/communist&marxist platform…
Marx was ten Times more evil as Hitler if we compared of how many has died as victims of The communism
Marx was never right, always left.
Marx talked a lot about money and capital but he was not able to make a penny his entire life (((((
Karl Marx was a philosopher, not a businessman. Besides, he wrote a scientific work concerning theoretical basis of economy and not popular literature about how to make money .
Well, he did what a true communist does.
Poenaru Dan His idea was to take from those who create wealth and give it to those who do not. It is a philosophy that will fail every time.
Yeah Ivan… You just summed up everything perfectly. You must be a genius or something.
/s just in case
Ivan Burrows Oh no ! He surely didn’t !
I don’t have such a peculiar perception. Karl Marx is totally different than Stalin as well as Friedrich Nietzche was not Hitler.
DA, problema este că nu s-a ajuns la nivelul de dezvoltare a conștiinței individuale care să abordeze alt model economic.
Marx nu a negat rolul benefic al capitalismului în evoluția societății. Noi din țările comuniste glumeam pe ideea că o societate comunistă trebuie să apară în USA, nu în România.
Cine glumea?
Nomenclatura.
Populatia suferea de foame, de cenzura si de opresiune.
Nici azi nu am scapat de urmarile ciumei rosii: ne conduc pupilii lui iliescu…
Mihaela Elena Nu! Aia traiau bine…. noi ca studenti sau elevi.
IAR MINICIUNA ASTA CA POPULATIA A SUFERIT DE FOAME 45 DE ANI … nu va face altceva decat sa repuna in actualitate comunismul.
Eu sunt de acord si cu SLOGANUL ASTA CIUMA ROSIE (similar ca si treaba aia PARTIDUL ESTE IN TOATE) dar avem sange in pix SA CEREM DAUNE DE LA SUA, UK, RUSIA CARE NE-AU ADUS CIUMA ROSIE !?!?!?
No more socialism:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155383542459117&id=46675576620
Capitalism trives in critisism.
He was certainly left. And wrong. Totally.
Surprisingly, the most benefits of the est european communism came not in East Europe, but in West Europe. The fear of communism made western capitalism to be a milder one. Now that the scarry cat is gone, it is time again for the slavery without chains.
There is no ‘milder’ capitalism. By no means can a company be bad to you unless, they, for example, harass you, which then is against law. What Marx witnessed in his times was that the state was closing the eyes on some abuses.
Capitalism as such means only how money and economy function.
Milder capitalism is the one where workers actually have some rights. Oposed to the jungle capitalism where all resources go to the strongest ones( the capital) while the most, but economically weak ( the workers) can die by famine
Which side had empty food stores and had their people trying to escape ?
And your point is? I said communism had his best effect not in communist countries bun inncapitalit ones. Without the sacrifice of the East the west would be much more different. Darker. With poorer blue collars spaves and rich white collar” lords”
God, I hate autocorrect
ce frumos
Please, do not confuse Marx’ theory about capitalism with ideologies trying on applying Marxism. In fact, many of so called Marxists are nothing to do with Marxism.
That’s only because Marxism was to far left even for lunatic socialists.
Communism: great idea wrong specie…
Sorry, communism is just murder, and only murder! If they celebrate Marx, why no Hitler, as well? Both socialists…
Communists are bad ppl…
And capitalism is good? 😂😂😂😂look all around you
Commies are on the same level with nazi’s if not worse… As for capitalism what we have today is no longer what Marx bitched about… The problems you see with capitalism are in fact due to corruption not wit capitalism itself
Also you can’t compare an ideology that is based on the deconstruction of the individual and absolute enslavement with a system that allows for freedom
“Like all religions, Communism is irrational, dogmatic and based on faith rather than science. “
You have just described the EU. :)
Marx was a pretty smart man, no doubt about that. Because of his ideas, we wouldn’t have trade unions. But in the end, Communism is a disease. It ruined everything. I like how every “Red Lover” comes from countries in which Communism never happened. Fuckin’ pansy-ass morons
Right
The damage to people rights were affecting half of the planet, cannot be ignored that. But the real evil was the egalitarianism, claiming we all are the same. Obviously, we are not, it is against nature. And that kills the bright ones who are responsible for all evolution. Value finds its way in capitalism, sometimes in pain, but have no chance in communism, despite Marx and all Comrades will never admit that. And on side, open doors for impostors, yes-mans, and so on. Turns the values system upside-down. To answer in short to the question: Marx was wrong all the way.
So hurting true for all the nostalgic , and all future utopists
Cheers mate. Love your people in Croatia. Hope for the best.
The study of Marxism is an intellectual pursuit. Communism was very different and in that struggle Marxism was read as if scripture. The need for a critique of todays capitalism is just as vital, so get to it and do not expect the dead Marx to solve these problems.
As always, these discussions on religion or politics attract the closed minds that glue themselves to beliefs that must not be contradicted on pain of insults. Understanding philosophy and society does not proceed in that manner.
The most ridiculous religion! !!
How exactly someone who is already wealthy tries to warn us about the dangers of money.
Legacy=150.000.000 dead humans
Karl Marx himself?!? 356.678.371 dead humans… at least!
??? Statistics ??? It seems too..
Not letting fail those “too big to fail” financial institutions responsible for the 2008 crisis and, moreso, providing them with financial support is what could be called a lefty/socialist-like maneuver innitiated by the Bush administration.
Bad move.
Asta-i literatura pentru weekend? Vreau și auxiliarele……..
Yep
Marx was right about the diagnosis but was wrong about the cure
25/01/2018 Vladimir Tismăneanu, Professor of Politics and Director of the Center for the Study of Post-communist Societies at the University of Maryland (College Park), has responded to this comment.
25/01/2018 Charles Post, Professor of Sociology at Borough of Manhattan Community College-CUNY, has responded to this comment.
Why do we waste time & get hot under the collar debating extreme systems? Marx was simple wrong predicting the collapse of capitalism instead of communism- as witnessed by history.
Sociopolitical evolution brought us a more balanced, multi party social democratic dispensation- which creates enough “heated arguments” of how best to improve such modern system.
Leave such arguments to “theorists” to enhance their evenings on a freezing winters day! It solves and changes nothing!
http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/encyclopedia/Sel-Str/Socialism-and-Communism.html#ixzz53y5LztFD
07/02/2018 Terrell Carver, Professor of Political Theory at the University of Bristol, has responded to this comment.
07/02/2018 Jonathan Portes, Professor of Economics and Public Policy at King’s College, London, has responded to this comment.
Eat Shit Marx!
If Karl Marx was alive , he would said:
” I warned you about capitalism”
it was a prophet a genius pity that his work is not studied in schools
Communism can never work in a capitalist system, this the problem, maybe is time to chance the system to see
25/01/2018 Vladimir Tismăneanu, Professor of Politics and Director of the Center for the Study of Post-communist Societies at the University of Maryland (College Park), has responded to this comment.
25/01/2018 Charles Post, Professor of Sociology at Borough of Manhattan Community College-CUNY, has responded to this comment.
It has been studiet behind the IRON CURTAIN and led to 200 MILLION deaths.
Marx was right about the diagnosis but was wrong about the cure
Karl Marx was right but everyone think that he was evil because they think that USSR or others were Marx fault. Bot in realty there was no marxist state yet
Communism can never work in a capitalist system, this the problem, maybe is time to chance the system to see
Good people of Europe, just look at Martin Schulz, the very fine “high end” product of leftist ideology. Do you trust Martin Schulz, honestly?
No. Its bollox.
What about the evils of communism?
Is that one of the Marx brothers they were brilliant
Which one of the brothers is he ?
Not the tallest, not the sortest
Marx was pure evil and a Mason.. How evil? Without the Reds the EU dictatorship would never have happened and we would all be free.
Yes he was
At its essence it realy is evil
Its goal is nothing else but money and the means to get rich
I think its at its peak and its going down
Let me ad a joke from someone’s else: “Marx is like Coran, it does not depend on the text, depends on the priest interpretation”
And all pretty wrong until now, I think.
Whoever likes Marx is either stupid or evil. Communism is bad!
AGREED!!!!!!!!
Was Karl Marx right about the evils of capitalism?
Karl Marx reasoning came from an environment that was opposed to social well being. Well being driven by a form of ‘social security’ within a Capitalist financial route to providing a suitable lifestyle for all levels of society.
In other words, proper taxation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqe4W08124M
And England in its most productive social times.
And what is it now? With the kind of Capitalism pushed by Globalist idiots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iskVBOYfOU
And America today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAKyi3SYC_I
Capitalism is the good in the world instead of communism. Communism takes away peoples money and distributes it until everybody is out of money. It literally destroys countries and creates wars. It sounds great at the beginning but once it happens it is a nightmare. It teaches people do be lazy and makes everybody poor with no reason to live.
I don’t remember well Marx’s “Capital”, as there are more than 40 years since I learned about it (in Romania). But I think this was wrong in Marx’s theory: he saw human history as a continuous struggle between social classes. Therefore, he saw the contemporary world divided between capital owners and workers as two antagonistic classes. He think that capital himself is the root of evil: the source of exploitation (= the source of miserable life of poor workers). Marx considered a good idea to urge workers to unite and struggle for their rights. But Lenin as his disciple transpose this idea in “workers have to conquer the political power by the means of revolution”. The worst of all is that they (the revolutionists) were reliant on people without education, as the most obedient people and good soldiers. The consequence is visible all around in all former (indeed?) communist countries.
The legacy of Karl Marx (So far):
USSR — 20 – 100 million dead
China — 65 – 100 million dead
Vietnam — 1 – 2 million dead
North Korea — 2 – 4 million dead
Cambodia — 2 – 3 million dead
Eastern Europe — + 1 million dead
Latin America — + 150,000 dead
Africa — + 1.7 million dead
Afghanistan — + 1.5 million dead
Marxist, Communist & mixed socialist movements, parties not in power — + 10,000 dead
The National Socialist German Workers’ Party — 60 – 80 million dead
The legacy of Capitalism:
Over one Billion people lifted out of poverty in the last 20 Years.
How many would you kill to try and make Socialism work this time ?
you are a joke.
Spyros
Is that all you have comrade ? no discussion, no debate, no counter argument, no facts & only an insult ?
Marx would have been so proud of you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQqnNqVDlig&t=356s
Ivan Apparently you don’t acknowledge counterpoints when it doesn’t fit your preconceived narrative. I’ve already pointed out why the numbers you used are flawed, yet you’re still using them.
John McTavish Good morning comrade, how are you enjoying your international death cult day ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-QuoWWsi8
I wonder who is removing posts ? Maybe you don’t want a debate after all and just want your favourite political ideology reinforcing..
Modern Marxism murders every year approximately 56 000 000 small not yet born childrens. Leftists name it “abortion”.
Ivan International death cult day? Ah, it wasn’t too bad. I’m guessing you were working, seeing as you wouldn’t want to take part in a day off won by those evil commies, right?
John One day off = A pile of > 200 million dead Men, women & Children. Thanks for nothing Mr Marx.
Ivan Burrows – 200 million in 100 years? It seems communism has some catching up to do on capitalism. ;)
https://i.redd.it/wh75hilyrtgy.jpg
John .
Meanwile in the real world….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxLKBuV28T8
So you decide to take off the mask and defend Karl?? So the EU is defending comunism??
Since when is Debating Europe “the EU”?
John McTavish You should address that question at the page owners, they always conflate Europe with the pointless EU.
Communism is the Ultimate form of Capitalism. The thick beard should be a clue.
Every country that is both capitalist and a democracy has enough of income to prevent starvation, capitalism gave us technological marvels such as smart phones, meanwhile look at Cuba or North Korea.
Not sure if I call them “evils” or rather faults. I also don’t understand why we have to be capitalists or communists all the way and through and through. I support capitalism with my lifestyle choices, while I read Marx to be aware of its faults and work on the betterment of the system we have created. I don’t see why we have to swing from one extreme to the other. A great recipe for a good dish is not consisted by only one ingredient, unless you want to eat it raw!
in the last 5000 year, the human of earth developed a couple of wonderful system, to keep society together, and step economically feorward.
but every system has been fallen, because corrupted operators, who miss their roles.
I think it’s a mistake to point to a system, and said this was a mistake. instead of it, we needed to track, and ureveal, the peoples, who abuse these systems.
It is the system of Scientific Socialism underlying Marxism that is at fault, it doesn’t matter who implements/ abuses it the result will ‘always’ be the same.
The definition of stupidity is doing same thing and expecting different results.
Take the day to remember the victims of Marxism everywhere.
We will not forget his legacy of murder and robbery, and will do anything that is necessary to protect humanity from it.
Yes! Marx was right, but it is not innovated better, than the democracy and the free market.
Τhe Left – in all its versions, social democratic, revolutionary, communist – not only does not win from the last capitalist crisis but loses. This, because it has been shown that in existing productive structures capitalism offers greater prosperity to the populations than the various left models tested. Human development indicators around the world have improved. In the 17 centuries of the pre-capitalist economy, world GDP has almost doubled. In the two centuries of capitalism, from 1800 to today, it has increased tenfold. Yes, there have been injustices, exploitation, etc. but the resident of Hainan province in China can now have a car while in the “Great Pumpkin” period he melted his pots to make the 1,200-ton steel production plan that Mao Che-tung.wanted
Every new system has been progressive in comparison with previous ones. The means of production have developed and improved. Capitalism is no exception. What has not changed is the ownership of the means of production which are still in the hands of a very small numbers of people, the rich. Their wealth has grown by exploiting millions of people. Exploitation of men by man is the number 1 principle of capitalism. Who has the economic power holds the political power too. All the superstructure, the laws, the propaganda, media and everything are build in the way that protects the wealth and the power of the rich. Where is the middle class? It is destroyed, their earnings do not match the time, money and effort they invested for their future. They have become the working class now. This discussion can be carried on and on. So, Karl Marks was absolutely right to call capitalism evil. Let’s hope the new generations will continue to seek a better and fairer system.
Was Marx an overhyped pseudo-intelectual??
Karl Marx was the evil.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/5-things-marx-wanted-abolish-besides-private-property
First toy read, then you think, then you speak. Im a disciple o Mill
It’s disgusting that this page promotes an ideology that had caused the death of hundreds of millions of people.
If you took 5 minutes to read the actual article, instead of whinging, you’d see they mention the negative things done in the name of Marxism.
Capitalism has lifted over 1 billion people out of poverty in the last 20 years alone while Marxism has killed 200 million men women & children so far. Bit of a stupid question really.
It was interesting to hear your unelected president Juncker is a fan of Karl Marx, but not surprising.
Ivan don’t underestimate the influence the left has had on capitalism. As is the basic concept in nature from the subatomic to the wastes galaxies, equlibrium is where things can endure and grow!;-)
Hah wanna see the Brits give up just a bit of their past. Blasphemy, they call it!!:D
Ants take care of the whole colony. Human beings designed a system where a few humans thrive or live in luxury at the expanse of poverty and desperation of the masses. Worse still humans are allowed to starve. Humans are killed for resource profits for some oligarchs lifestyle. All this when we can easily create a society that abolishes poverty and guarantees basic needs are met. Disgusting.
For some…yes…but solution is not communism.
and on the bitter end “Red Mafia” was born
No, but history proved the evils of his ideas put into practice.
Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers. Tyranny occurs when absolute power is granted to a ruler. In a tyrannical government, the ruler becomes corrupt and uses his power to further his own interests instead of working for the common good.
The rule of law is the principle that no one is exempt from the law, even those who are in a position of power. The rule of law can serve as a safeguard against tyranny because just laws ensure that rulers do not become corrupt. ………..Aristotle
Tutor of the 13-year-old, Alexander (the future Alexander the Great).
In pro nuclear times yes.Today capitalism is pushing for nuclear extermination of Earth
His diagnose was perfect for the time being, his prescription was and is a total disaster.
Wait until you see the evils of comunism … also called … poverty for all…
We can say that of pretty much all isms
Ask the tens of millions of murdered by communism!
Perhaps?
Yes, just like I could be right describing the evils of eating and drinking.
Depends, have your family experienced Soviet tanks and boots on the street. If not, be greatful and throw Marx out of the window, because this misery is the necessary and only consequence of his work
Epic comment!
.
– Capitalism has lifted over one billion people out of poverty & improved the lives of billions more in the last 25 years alone.
– Marxism (Socialism) has murdered 150 – 200 million people, plunged unknown millions more into poverty & fear while destroying whole Nations.
Debating Europe’s obsession with the Marxist death cult is rather troubling.
Ivan It is common knowledge that Debating Europe is very far-left. Just the other day they ordered you to stop calling people here ‘comrade’ 😂
Their poor feelings hurt!
No. Industrialists were tight about the evil of Karl Marx. The Communists were quick to re establish the Massonic lodges that the Anti Communists shut down in the pre-war yrs.
Forget the words capitalism and socialism.Wherever the social structure there are always dominants and dominateds!
So EU wishes communism…
No, he managed to be wrong about almost everything he wrote, including all of his major predictions. His ideas also inspired some of the most murderous political movements in history and led to tens of millions of deaths.
Most of the evils about capitalisms are proven to be right. The applications of solutions that others did were totally a disaster and not counting fascists dictatorships disguised as anything concentrating the wealth in one pal that is one of the critics of capitalism that Marx did.
Well, a 100% unleashed economy eventually destraoys the environment and a stable society. A 100% controlled economy doese not work and doese not provide everything society needs, until it eventually crumbles and cannot provide anything. (Maybe not the way MArx intended it but how later communists thought it to made sense. As many philosophers/thinkers/economists/ideologists he was the first in his field of theories and therefore made a lot of initial misconceptions which needed 150 -odd years, some very cruel revolutions and atocracies with a lot of victims and a cold war which brought the earth on the brink of destruction. However, the basic idea, that workers need protection, and that an increase in productivity has to benefit everybody, not just the employer/owner(share holder etc. persists in European societies until today). Today we know, that economy needs regulatio to keep costumers safe, to safe the environment and to ensure the rights of workers and employees. Additionaly, we rely on a society where solidarity lpays a key role, so that social freedom and peace is ensured.So the question is to which extend/percentage on the scale of (not 0 and 100 but somewhere in between 80 and 50%) the economy should be guided/ruled/directed etc. by governments. Voilá, democratic discussion about economic issues alongside traditional political camps on the left and the right.
I now own a business coming from a working class background. The journey has been absolutely amazing to grow a successful business (capitalism). It was never about the riches ( I am on a very average wage) and I strive to empower my employees (friends) To be part of this phenomenon. Surely, it comes down the community, good lifestyle and fuck media? I live in Mont Blanc by absolute random. Capitalism infects 😘
Well, we do have butt-hurt producing all our lives for the masters you know. But he forgot to say that WORKERS ARE STUPID!
The only problem with capitalism is that it’s not Laissez-faire. We shouldn’t allow government meddling in economy. Karl Marx was wrong all the way, Adam Smith was right.
He was absolutely right.
Unpopular opinion: It isn’t Karl Marx that’s guilty of the killings, it was the people who implemented or patterned their work to Marx’s ideology. It’s because the leaders who killed millions got a bad picture from mass murdering and when traced back it shows that they want to pattern it to Marx’s ideology but that wasn’t what Karl Marx wanted nor even said on how to make his ideology work, it was the leaders that did the killings, not his ideology or himself. Also, Marx said communism to be like the end process of every other ideology, passing by feudalism, capitalism, socialism and etc. where since communism means classes society, it will only prevail on what i think is a “perfect society” where everything is achieved by humans or something like that or maybe I interpreted it wrong (I got the “perfect society” idea from a book-sycthe)
TLDR: It’s because of the bad picture that the leaders got with following/patterning their work to Marx’s ideology THAT made Karl Marx and his ideology have a bad picture when really, he didn’t really say much on how to make his ideology real nor did he say to kill millions just to make his ideology work.
Shorter TLDR: blame the leaders who made the killings, not Karl Marx because he made the ideology without saying anything for a must to kill people.
Unrelated but after looking at the comments section, can we compare Marx’s ideology to different ideologies other than Capitalism? Capitalism isn’t the only ideology out there y’know.
The people who sing the praises of Capitalism are usually doing very nicely out of the system but they never consider the millions of victims of the system because they tend to be greedy, selfish and largely corrupt because where there is big money there is also corruption. Is there a better system? I would say yes, a system based on ……….Human need …………But it would have to be moneyless because money corrupts and destroys anything and everything. The Bible informs us the love of and greed for money is the root of all kinds of evil which includes……..Greed, selfishness, Exploitation and Corruption, sounds rather like CAPITALISM.
You’ve all been brainwashed by your countries to believe either comunism is bad or capitilism is bad. The truth is all ideoelogies have flaws… communism and captilism are no exeptions.