Brexit means Brexit. It’s all very clear. Until you start drilling down into the details. Did 52% of voters in the 2016 referendum vote to leave the EU Single Market? Did they vote to leave the Customs Union? Did they vote to rejoin EFTA? Did they vote to create a hard border with Ireland? Was it a vote in favour of the Norway option? Or the Canada model? Was it for “no deal” and a return to trading under WTO rules?
At the best of times, interpreting referendum results and translating them into actual policy is a pretty thankless task. Political campaigns are always coalitions of different interest groups, so maintaining a fuzzy definition of the final outcome can help keep the coalition together. However, it also means that some of the people who voted in favour of Brexit are inevitably going to be disappointed with the result, no matter what it is.
What do our readers think? We had a comment sent in from Alex, who thinks the UK needs a second referendum on the terms of the final Brexit deal. He believes this would be the most democratic way to proceed. Is he right?
To get a reaction we spoke to Pavlos Eleftheriadis, a Professor of Public Law and a Fellow of Mansfield College at the University of Oxford who teaches Constitutional Law, European Union law and the philosophy of law. Professor Eleftheriadis is also a barrister in England and Wales and practises in EU and public law. What would he say to Alex?
I totally agree with Alex, for two reasons. One is that the referendum campaign itself had very inaccurate descriptions of what Brexit would be like. They were very optimistic, and I don’t think they were correct. For example, they said that Britain would have 350 million pounds per week returned from the EU that it could spend on the NHS, which was highly inaccurate. That’s the first problem.
The second problem is that precisely because it’s so difficult to describe what the future relationship might be, no campaign could have done it correctly. So, we voted against what we had, but it wasn’t possible to vote “for” anything in the future, because there are (broadly) four different possibilities: no deal, the Switzerland deal, the Canada deal, and the Norway deal. They are all quite different, and of course the public hasn’t voted on any of them. The referendum result told us that most people were dissatisfied with the status quo in 2016. But, of course, politics is about what you want to do, not what you don’t what to do. And we haven’t yet decided what we want to do.
We also had a comment from Rémi, who believes that once the Article 50 process has been triggered, the UK must inevitably leave. Is he right? If Britain wants to change its mind, will it have to reapply for EU membership? Or is it legally possible to unilaterally revoke Article 50 before the two-year time limit is up?
The question is: Can the Article 50 two-year deadline be stopped unilaterally? Can the UK say: Right, I’ve changed my mind, we’re staying. And I think many people, including myself, believe this can indeed be done – it’s lawful. Because Article 50 says you notify your “intention”, but you don’t notify your decision. And that’s perfectly reasonable because you will only be able to make a decision once you know the terms of the future relationship. So, your intention means that you start negotiating – which is what we’ve done. And Article 50 says you must do it in two years, otherwise it could go on for far too long. So, it disciplines the parties. That’s the meaning of the two-year deadline.
So, my view is that if the UK changed its mind, especially if it had another referendum or a parliamentary vote (any constitutional method would be acceptable) then the Article 50 process can be stopped and the UK can stay in the European Union.
Finally, we had a comment from Coralee arguing that another referendum would be a betrayal of democracy. She believes it would be like saying: “Vote again until you give us the right answer”. Is she right?
The question today would be very different, because if the second referendum happens then it won’t be about whether we like the status quo or not – which was the 2016 question. It will be the question: Do we like the new Brexit deal that has been negotiated? Do we want that future? Or do we prefer the status quo?
Remember, many people who voted to leave in 2016 thought that Britain could stay in the Single Market so that the car industry, for example, can have these parts moving back and forth without tariffs or red tape. Clearly if many of these people knew the consequences they would have changed their mind.
So, for me, the two questions are very different. That’s why the British government needs to be very careful about this. To be properly democratic, the choice needs to be: The new Brexit deal, or remain. They are now talking about something else: The new deal, or no deal, which would be a disaster for everyone.
Should Britain hold a second referendum on Brexit? Would a second referendum undermine democracy? And is it even possible? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
472 comments Post a commentcomment
Didn’t they already?
Not on the final outcome.
Pedro Pais de Vasconcelos we did it was OUT of the EU
No.. parliament will have a vote.. that’s sufficient.
and what if parliament says no?
Then we exit without a deal.
Uli Czeranka There will be an election and the traitors will be removed from our government :)
There is a saying .. ASSUMPTION IS THE MOTHER OF A F***UP !
I am one of the 13 million who did not vote. Like Cameron I thought it a foregone conclusion the result would be Remain, no way on earth would people be stupid enough to vote Leave. The reason the Leave campaign are terrified of a second referendum, is because they know the vast majority of the 13 million abstainers and people like myself who made a disasterous assumption are now desperate to vote Remain.
Beats me why the pro Remain commentators/interviewers/media do not make more of this obvious fact. Especially in response to ‘People just want us to move on’, or Leave’s ‘ ‘WE ALL KNOW another Ref would be just as undecisive’ . WE ?
No ! Probably at least 10 million out of 13 million times NO. (Plus all the other people who did vote Leave and have since changed their minds).
Another referendum would result in at least 60/40 (probably even higher) in favour of Remain. Conclusive ! Farage and Company know this only too well.
All pro-remainers should be highlighting these facts, particularly journalists, media commentators etc.
They had one. May lost. Ironically, she says it’s OK to have another vote within *weeks*, because there is new information.
My irony meter just bent its needle around the end stop – must order a MilSpec one.
yes
Yes, of course. At the first referendum, the final outcome and the real Brexit was not yet known.
I m just fed up of them they better just go fuck themselves they never felt fucking European with their driving upside down keeping the border and shit.
Time to say bye bye and fuck the shit off for good
We in the UK drive on the correct side of the road…. I assume you are referring to Australian drivers when you refer to upside down?
It’s hard to have no border when you live on an *island*. :)
And around half the world drives on the left, including the only country with which we have a land border.
Na minha opinião, que vale o que vale, os ingleses pensaram que através do referendo, a UE ia andar atrás deles como cães. Afinal, a UE fez como num divórcio, “queres, então toma lá”, os ingleses ficaram com o melão.
no.U.E. is a UTOPIA.
You wish lol, we knew exactly why we voted to leave the pointless EU & now the true motives of Brussels is to create an antidemocratic US of E is known even more people want to get out. But you can have Tony Blair if you want, we have no use for the traitor.
Hihihi! Master of Fake News! Gullible Brexiters.
Malte Rathje Good afternoon troll, will you miss us or just our money ? lol
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40433450
Yes Ivan, go free.
We let you free with no deal.
GO trade with Antarctica or whoever the hell u want, just please, go.
A duh! Votes are only fair when you have all the information
What makes you think that you will ever have full information?
If founders of EU would know that it will turn out into political oppressive federal machine they would burn all those papers instead of signing them.
You can study the EU.
C’est pas tes oignons.
ΝΟ, Britain should leave the EE and open the door for the rest of us to leave this NAZI, New World Order Dictatorship. We have had enough of sovereignty being stolen and natural resources being negotiated away under threats and bullying. Bring it down, it does not work.
Yes. The first referendum was won on lies!
The lies came from the remain traitors, luckily enough people didn’t believe them :) Will you miss us or just our money ?
To be fair the remain camp was a bigger pack of lies. Project fear was the easiest campaign route but not honest with our obligations or membership status.
I was one of the few remain campaigners who honestly campaigned yes and yes to a federal union. However, even I acknowledge that if federal union had been honestly told as the objective of the EU then the no campaign would have had a landslide Out victory! 👎
Cameron : leaving the eu could lead to war / Obama Britain back of the queue / clegg no eu army and no eu superstate just some of the lies the pro eu tried to blackmail the uk public with
Seems,that they might need it. Better now than try to repair all what’s now been done!
“What’s been done”? we are leaving a dictatorship so what else needs to be done ?
Stop crying then. Check btw how UK acted inside EU? Like it still would be superior nation. Wrong again,so long UK.
Martti Immonen Thank you for your concern but we are British and have no need of your pointless EU. Will you miss us or just our money ? :)
https://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-calls-for-higher-payments-to-post-brexit-eu-budget/
Ivan, you sound so racist, arrogant and ridiculous that you are not even aware of it. If you want to do the UK a favour and portray it in a good light, just stop posting here.
Independente do resultado os ingleses tiveram o direito de votar – que eu não tenho.
No. Referendum already happened and people spoke.
If you value democratic people decisions you should not repeat votes till their match your expectations.
So why did you whinge for 41 years until you got a second referendum?
Remain won the first one in 1975 with a thumping 2:1 majority. Using Farage-Logic, that settles the matter for all time, surely?
What for? They already authorized the government to negotiate the exit deal and the exit article has been invoked . It’s final. The glass is now broken.
Since the next day there was already a considerable percentage of civil society that had changed its mind, because it did not know the full repercussions or what it would entail in its life, I think it would be both correct and imperative.
Yes. And another. Anf another … until the final YES, right?…
Like in the time of the Lisbon Treaty?
Should there be referendums until we get the answer we want?
We have had the referendum and new what we were voting for. It now has to be delivered in its entirety.
*Knew
Friggin spilling polith.
De Gaulle refuse la division de l’Europe « artificielle et stérile » qui est « le pire mal de notre époque ». Sa volonté de modifier le statut quo rejoint ici le sens profond qu’il a de l’Histoire. Parce qu’elle est une réalité historique et géographique, l’Europe ne peut se réduire à sa partie occidentale. Le projet gaullien correspond à une grande ambition internationale : au sein d’une Europe réconciliée, à nouveau maîtresse de son destin, la France redevient, face aux Etats-Unis, un acteur central de la vie internationale. Il est aussi un grand projet d’équilibre et de paix. L’Europe de l’Atlantique à l’Oural inclut l’URSS ou du moins la Russie, car c’est à elle que de Gaulle se réfère le plus souvent, convaincu que les idéologies et les régimes passent alors que les Nations demeurent. Elle implique une réconciliation franco-allemande et un règlement du problème allemand pouvant aller jusqu’à la réunification. Les questions russe et allemande sont ici liées : lorsqu’elle ne sera plus ni totalitaire ni expansionniste, l’URSS contribuera à l’équilibre indispensable à la Paix.
No… They decide to leave… So be leave it. Next time think twise…
YES…
No, because promising a second referendum gives the EU the green light to give the UK the worst possible deal knowing full well it will swing the result.
The UK has already voted for Brexit, therefore the only meaningful second referendum would offer the choice of either accepting whatever deal is given, or going for no deal
We already won’t give you a deal.
Wake up.
Nope.
Of course! There should be as many referendums as needed until the answer is the one you want!
nope
Yes…..a Europe without the U.K. is incomplete and lame.
The UK was never fully implicated in the EU, since they refused to join the eurozone and the Schengen Area.
Andrew Lucas The other Nations (included France) would have refused to join the idiotic eurozone and the migrant madness of the Schengen Area if they had been asked but asking the ‘people’ is not what the EU does. Paying for it now ain’t you.
No thanks, the EU is all yours and you can keep it, we are rejoining the free world :)
An EU without UK is a leg that has been healed
The shengen area has nothing to do with the e.u…it is a separate treaty and countries out of the e.u. can be in schengen.
And countries and out of the eurozone can be part of the e.u. ..dear Andrew Lucas.
Ivan Burrows A pity that the free world have little time for UK
“A pity that the free world have little time for UK”…..I think you will find it will have plenty of time….
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/12/19/the-u-k-tops-forbes-best-countries-for-business-2018/#1525a5c726de
Typical of the eussr. Keep voting till u get the amswer brussels wants
Nope.
Time for our own #EUReferendum. European Parliament, European Commission, and Council of the European Union, get it organized. We want a #Referendum on whether the UK should be allowed in, or whether it should be kicked out of the EU.
No one is ‘kicking us out’ we’re leaving anyway. Do keep up
Oh, were ya really? It sure doesn’t look like that right now.
Of course – it’s a democracy. Get over it. People can change their mind.
It’s not even about changing their mind. It is about the final deal, that they couldn’t vote on because it wasn’t on the table. The referendum expressed the willingness to leave, but without the conditions. It would only be fair and logical to also ask again once the condition are clear, if that is what the people wanted.
I’m sure UK will work better out of this EU plenty of bureaucracy and corruption.
Yes, a referendum to EXIT – BREXIT
Yes.
lol A referendum on a Referendum? Like asking citizens “are you sure you weren’t really that stupid?”.
A second Brexit vote would be the asmission that voters aren’t responsible for themselves. As it is.
I’d support a second referendum only if we accept the idea that not everyone suitable to vote when turning 18, that we must put requirements stricter than citizenship and coming of age, like “telling news from fake news, understanding a political program, understanding consequences and, most of all, the right of voting with a solid view of world and geopolitics.
A citizen has to know and undestand glocal History, Sociology and Psichology.
Otherwise, we’re gonna to ask to revote every stupid thing done with the use of fear, hatred and fake news.
It is not all a referendum on a referendum. It is about the final deal, that they couldn’t vote on because it wasn’t on the table. The referendum expressed the willingness to leave, but without the conditions. It would only be fair and logical to also ask again once the condition are clear, if that is what the people wanted.
Right, cause voters were too ignorant on referendum day, they did not understand its consequences and they didn’t know where it would have led.
We let sheeple vote and here’s the result.
@Daniel Suranyi
Every time you vote you never know exactly what you are going to get.
A general election has all parties exchanging economic spin and half truths and
once you elect a government you don’t get a chance to vote again once they actually deliver their first budget do you?
@Paul X — Aside from the fact that you do not elect the government, you elect the parliament, GEs are held every 4 to 5 years, depending on the country. The most recent GE in the UK was held only two years after the previous one. So what’s wrong with a new ref, now that the electorate is much better aware of the options?
No….. Out out no more wellcome.
In my opinion, should the UK change its mind about Brexit (by whatever means it likes) the EU should only allow the UK to remain if the UK waives all claims to the various exemptions it has secured for itself over the years.
Not a chance. We tried to get the EU to reform and they refused. This was the result.
What reform did UK propose to the EU? lol
Tiago Pereira they tried to veto and oppose any social and political integration during all their time of membership.
Yes. Why should they ? 3 points here. 1. The civil war in Syria is hopefully coming to an end, which will lessen the stream of refugees considerably. Thereby removing much of the short sighted ammunition of the nationalist right. 2. Much of the information the average voter had on EU was at best faulty or lacking, if not downright false and misleading, In regards to so many things. Voters should be and I think are much more informed now, and so see much more clearly. 3. As both sides(EU & UK) have now seen what we all have to loose by UK leaving, concessions should be achievable for both sides, where issues were rigidly stuck before. All member states have some issues that should be taken seriously to make EU more transparent, and not too centralised and rigid. We need it as an entity in today’s world and in the future. So have a new referendum after these issues have been discussed. Good luck Europe.
Should Britain have a referendum on the final Brexit deal?
Why? What has the EU offered the people of the UK that was not there before? They have made it very clear they intend to and will continue to import millions from the developed world for the Europeans, which would include us, to fund from birth to death. For no reason that I can see will be of benefit to us or be considered value for money. In fact the cost of this lunacy is against the best interests of any of Europes citizens.
The EU has a failing economy, has no idea where it is going politically or strategically, has a problem with its decision to remain a dictatorship and the leaders are despised by the British in general.
The mad woman leading Scotland will soon be thrown out by her constituents, she is planning and has already suggested giving the Scottish peoples vote to immigrants who reside in Scotland, thereby reducing the power of the Scottish people to decide who they want to lead them, so she is going to be out on her ear. The Conservative is set to get into power at the next GE there. For some reason the Scots like that woman? So, north of the border is contemplating whether staying in Europe will be such a good thing after all.
Likewise, Northern Ireland. Plus, Southern Ireland is beginning to feel its rightful place is within the UK. The EU having become a betrayer of Westerners and their cultural magnificence. Have you seen what they plan for European school children?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL5-gz5L8c8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIv-KOQ5F4A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk-V2uPcSLw
Is this what the majority of the European people want for the future of their families? I don’t think so. So, the only way to stop it is to remove your country from being part of the EU, for to remain prevents any possible deviation from the madness they love to force on us and hold us there by threats.
No!! England/UK has been a weight holding back the EU for years….the referendum needed is in Scotland so they can be independent and stay as EU citizens….but good riddance to the English
So you want to put yourself in a corrupt and totally antidemocratic foreign system of crooks (EU) rather than with your brothers your own country for centuries?
I am Irish..The English are definitely not “my brothers”…but the Scots deaerve to be EU partners instead of controlled by England
Stefan: they are all brothers because they born in the same country as you? And they are all crooks because they are foreign? Interesting take on live…
And to call a system democratic where your vote doesn’t count if the major party in your voting district has a sure majority is also an interesting take on democracy. You do known that the EU Parliament is voted for, right?
Rather than a weight, many EU members believe the UK has provided a much needed balance to control the rampant federalism of certain other countries
…and a majority of Scottish people voted for the UK to remain in the EU, despite what Sturgeon would have you believe, that does not automatically mean that same majority want Scotland remain in the EU as an independent country
No
No. Scotland on the other hand should have the indepedence one again.
How about scrutinizing the “EU”, by applying these popular pc (Brexit) comparatives to any “EU supranational“ democratic endeavors”? Including to expect full transparency- “beforehand”- of all still (unknown) “step by step”) EU nitty gritty unknowns?
• Failure to agree & therefore not to possess a valid EU Constitutional Treaty.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228235434_Explaining_the_Failure_of_the_European_Constitution_A_Constitution-Making_Perspective
• Dismal low (43.09%) voter turnout at the (2014) EP elections.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/300427/eu-parlament-turnout-for-the-european-elections/
• No (significant) EU supranational referendum (ECI- bottom up) ever allowed by the EC to succeed…..
https://democracy.blogactiv.eu/2016/04/21/eci-1-eus-citizens-initiative-a-useless-counterfeit-for-real-consultative-committees/
Eurocates who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones……..”
No: British people has already voted.
Enough drama with the Brits. The EU needs a lot of institutional reform to move forward and most of the necessary reforms are nonstarters to the UK. They have their coat and hat in hand. Time to make their way to the door.
The Brexit deal doesn’t include a trade deal because the EU can’t negotiate with a member so that referendum must take place at the end of the transitional period.
EU = economic unium . trade = economic . Dont understand wy another negociation?
Besides the EU needs Britain out to advance on the European Project.
Britain had and will oppose the European Project.
Brits are out.
EU is for the ones who want to be in EU
The only thing I can say is I feel sorry for the normal english that voted stay because they will end up paying for the stupidy of those who voted out. The middle class in the UK will dissapear some of the richer will get poorer,and the elderly will suffer.
Or those who voted leave will pay with a watered down Brexit, due to the stupidity of those who voted remain 😁
“The middle class in the UK will dissapear some of the richer will get poorer,and the elderly will suffer.”…I don’t suppose you have any evidence to back up your fanciful predictions… I’d love to know where all the middle class are going to disappear to?
No we voted out not some watered down version of us still paying and abiding by eu rules.
Make list. What you will win and what you will loose . Compare and decid. For me to be independent is the most important but is a price for that.
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
Yes, it should. It was a referendum that started the whole leaving process in a supposed exercise of democracy, so the same process should be followed to determine whether people accept the deal or want to stay in the EU or want to leave without a deal. You can’t only invoke democracy when it suits you because that is just manipulation and abuse.
too late for tears mrs EU!! Be nice to your members next time!!
Hahaha! Tears of LAUGHTER !! :D
We are laughing our blue with gold stars asses off here ! :D
well, EU should mind it’s part of the deal
Adica le dam multa muie la britanici, ca asta merita.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFBgQpz_E80
por minha causa um t2 e eu vou. tiro bilhete.se for pela PSD Europa.sim
Will our voice have an impact and change things?
a year and 1/2 on…
Britons should by now have a more thoroughly view on what Brexit means to everybody…
yes on a new referendum with a clear percentage of winning pre stated
No. “Brexit means Brexit” and means CDS out of the City. We won’t miss you…
No
‘Brexit means brexit’
And hopefully all the financial sector out of London.
Good riddance !
a year and 1/2 on…
Britons should by now have a more thoroughly view on what Brexit means to everybody…
yes on a new referendum with a clear percentage of winning pre stated
a year and 1/2 on…
Britons should by now have a more thoroughly view on what Brexit means to everybody…
yes on a new referendum with a clear percentage of winning pre stated
I would prefer to see a free vote in Parliament on the final deal. But what position will the UK move to if the vote is to stay in the EU? It cannot be business as before.
Did you mean to say: “….in the
EU?
Martin Finke Yes. Corrected.
Europe have now a golden opportunity to advance towards a United States of Europe. That is the most positive thing in Europe for 20 years.
That is not going to happen. There has never been any plan to merge the member states into a single country. That has always been the myth put around by the English.
John Jones 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂this has always been the EU. From the very beginning. Britain tried to stop that all throughout its membership. It has delayed but not stopped. The United States of Europe will be a reality now that its inside enemy is getting out.
The enemy is inside! EU is killing Europe…
Even with the UK out it wants to use the language of the Anglo-Saxon Empire as our official language…
Antoine Che that is not true. EU leaders have already said the status of English as Working language will end after Brexit.
English is the working language of business globally not just the EU, they are free to drop it but dont expect the rest of the world to start doing business in French or German just to suit the ego of the EU
@ John Jones
This is a good read ..
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/280574.The_United_States_of_Europe
..and I don’t believe this bloke is English either?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/07/martin-schulz-united-states-of-europe-germany-sdp
No. It is already out. Dont waste more european time and sod off already.
Should Britain have a referendum on the final Brexit deal?
I don’t think so! The decision the British people made, was, as always for us, the right one.
Should Britain have a referendum on the final Brexit deal?
The British people did not know what they voted for in their first referendum. They clearly should be able to reject a badly negotiated Brexit deal in a second referendum.
Actually the ballot paper was quite clear..
“Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU”
SImple choice, no reference to “soft Brexit” or any other options
Stay in or leave everything was the choice given, and we voted to leave everything about the EU, was pretty obvious to anyone who can read
@ Stefan
The British people are a lot smarter than the rest of you Europeans. We are pragmatic. Not suffering from foolish delusions driven by fake propaganda.
Ask this question of yourself. When did you personally vote for the EU leadership? Can you call for a no confidence vote and get rid of them? Do you know how much personal money they have in their various accounts and when it arrived for them? And, most importantly, where those assets and money came from?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/904339/brexit-news-eu-uk-no-deal-free-trade-agreement-economists-for-free-trade
“The British people are a lot smarter than the rest of you Europeans”
Ahhh the Dunning Krugger effect in action ^^
The democratic vote was to leave, and leave we should. Those who try to oppose the peoples choice, by the use of their various negative opinions on the supposed final outcome of an actual deal are not helping the UK. The remainers seem to me to be a timid and frightened bunch opposed to change and new ideas, (this is not the way of the British People). They are trying to force their views on to the people by scare tactics which will make it harder to negotiate a fair and just outcome. Negotiations are never easy and no party are going to show their hand in negotiations, yet some fractions of the the British media seem to want to force this information from the Government and feed it to Brussels. Brussels in turn are using aggressive scare tactics via press releases which the UK media report, and which seems to be assisting them and making it more difficult for Theresa May and our Government to ensure we get a fair deal. If at the end of the negotiations we do not get a fair deal the remainers need to stand up and be counted, as it will not be the government’s fault. You cannot fight (negotiate) successfully with one hand tied behind your back. People will need to judge at the end of the negotiations who has influenced the final decision and if it is fair and just and if without the negativity we could have done better, as without doubt we will be leaving.
Well said
No because the referendum was about leaving or staying not on any final deal that the EU and the pro EU Tories come to .
It doesn’t look like a final brexit deal will be anything other that a capitulation from the UK government where we keep paying in vast sums for access to various EU institutions . Only a Brexiteer leader in the future will take us out in the manor that 17 million people voted for .
Only the European institutions wish to continue to improve the lives of our people the UK will return the old days STOP BREXIT
What, like it has improved the lives of the people of Greece?
The EU institutions have only one thing at heart, maintaining and expanding the EU
People had around 17 weeks to listen to the debates lies on both sides Camerons it may lead to war and Obama it may put back of the queue other eu countries threatening the uk the people of the uk were told that if we voted leave we would be leaving the single market and everything the eu has attached to it 17 million people voted leave 52% to 48% David Cameron the then prime minister said the vote would be respected since then I have seen little respect for the result the only people who don’t seem to understand what the vote was about are the people who voted remain and the people who didn’t vote on the 23 June 16 it was the biggest vote in UK history and the most important in UK history so a 2nd referumn we either leave with a good deal or leave no deal NO remaining we leave the eu.
I hope my country will have its exit as well
@Marko good luck
It’s not gonna happen Marko. Unfortunately !
EU should stop subverting foreign and domestic democracies and personal freedoms. EU should stop waging war on its own people
Stop drinking bleach…
Yes. It would be a first referendum on the deal
But if another referendum shows remain, would it be possible to name it as a deal? 😄 It would be going against the nation. In fact, they needed another referendum much time earlier. Now – I do not know…
Making people vote until they get the right answer is the way the EU works. We are British, we have spoken and we are leaving the pointless EU. :)
I wouldnt give up on elections. Here we have them every year. That’s democracy.
@Ivan the UK begged 3x to enter CEE. You kept begging until you got accepted so why not this time?
@Duarte Well done comrade for getting it right, we voted to join the EEC, not the pointless EU.
Contraproductiv si nepractic ca,stat de traditie, sa nu participe pentru o uniune stabila si economic perseverenta in cadrul european si mai mare.Avem necesitatea si necesarul de prioritati,reforme de amploare, revolutive de etapa industriala curata bazata pe obligativitatea responsabila a conduitei climatice in raport cu noile energii alternative.
Anglia are nevoie de un pumn in gura tare de tot.
Lasa-i sa plece sa vezi ce isi sparg dintii de asfaltul de afara uniunii.
Cred ca gigantii alde China, India si SUA ii vor menaja?
Hahaha ce am sa ma distrez dp 2019.
Britain is like this couple that’s has been leaving the party for the last 30 minutes but can’t seem to because they are fighting with each other. The rest of Europe has problems to solve not related to Europe, you said you were leaving, time to take your coats and get out already.
Don’t worry, all this staying in the pointless EU is just nonsense, we ARE leaving :)
…and the EU is the doorman at this party saying ” Despite the fact you were one of few people who brought booze for this party you have to provide even more before I will let you out the door”
Now who is interfering in foreign policy?
No one wants brexit, specially the brits. Never is too late to change what it never shouldn’t be changed. Better be happy then to have the reason, or in this case no reason at all.
Think your find 17 million people voted to leave the eu don’t believe all bulls##t that the media would have you believe we love Europe but not the eu the eu have shown they don’t do democracy when there’s money involved.
Best business UK never donde is Brexit. They will have to fight for their place on the world, reforce all their institutions like Commonwealth, stablish stronger links with Usa or China but they have an opportunity to be free of absurd bureaucracy and not democratic institutions and commisions.
noooooooo
It’s all over now… too late for any of this. The Britons had their say. It’s in their politicians best interest to negotiate the best possible deal with the EU.
We don’t care if there is a deal or not. we just want out of the pointless EU :)
With the EU being UK’s largest trading partner, I think no deal will have negative consequences on UK’s economy, at least in the short run (3-4 years). So I understand why you guys want out, but trust me, you need at least some kind of a deal. Britain is an island but still it is closer to the EU than to the US or China and you can’t escape Geography.
Considering the UK has a trade deficit with the EU it is also in the EU’s interest to negotiate a good deal…… unfortunately, for those countries that export heavily to the UK, the EU is putting it’s own selfish political agenda before the needs of those countries
We the British people have spoken & we the British people are leaving the pointless EU so no, there will not be another referendum. Does Debating Europe get any funding from George Soros ?
I feel I keep having to point this out that I’m a British person and I didn’t say anything of the sort, please don’t presume to speak for me.
@Sam If you stand with traitors history will remember you as such comrade. If you think the EU is so wonderful will you be moving there ?
First of all I’ll be spelling it right, second of all if all you can do is resort to cheap insults I guess you don’t have much of a real argument to make
Sam That’s pretty much the defence of Oswald Mosley and Kim Philby comrade & still they are remembered as traitor’s, how exactly are the followers of Soros & Blair any different ?
What in the name of god are you going on about? What defence? Also, if you think calling me comrade is an insult you’re both mistaken and misunderstanding of the EU. I am a socialist and proud to be one, the EU however definitely isn’t so using that on me because I’m a europhile makes no sense. Perhaps you could familiarise yourself with some basic political concepts before yelling the odds.
@Sam You seem to have a problem with reality comrade, here is the simple definition for you and to coin on old British saying ‘If the hat fits wear it’ & you do seem to have a thing for hats..
Definition of traitor:-
: A person who betrays his or her country
: A person who seeks foreign rule over his or her country
@Sam
Definition of Socialism:–
(Other names include – Communism, Marxism & National Socialism)
: A political ideology when implemented without exception leads to misery & decline and often civil or international war. Avoid at all costs.
@Ivan – so indistinguishable from capitalism comrade. We voted to leave but not how. We should get a vote on how. And this time we won’t be fooled by lies because we will know what the deal is.
😂. Ok, it was my own fault for getting lured into conversation.
Don’t feel bad Sam. If nothing else your views make me feel that these bell ends will not win.
When will I learn? I might as well try and knock down a wall with a feather. About as likely to happen as convincing an idiot of the truth using logic and facts.
@David You mean the 1973 lie that took us into the pointless EEC?, or maybe the lie that the sky would fall in if we voted to leave ? Forcing people to vote until they get the right answer is a trick used by Brussels before, it will not work again..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXFssBHnRE
@Sam Who pays you trolls, is it Soros or the European Commission ?
https://order-order.com/2014/02/27/eu-spends-2-million-on-trolling-online-euroscpetics/
You mean I could be getting PAID to make you say ever more stupid things? Man do I feel ripped off!
@Sam the real problem is that a referendum is am awful way to decide government policy. Add to the fact that the standard of debate wad risible. Called by an arrogant rich boy to keep his party together, the whole campaign was conducted as a knockabout farce in a posh debating chamber between mendacious members fresh from risque experiences together in the showers of Eton. Or is that unfair?? You have to laugh……….
@David Irrelevant, we are leaving :)
Good comeback Ivan
Thanks.So how exactly are you any different to Mosley & Philby comrade ?
Dissimilar to Mosely because I am not a fascist – oh and not a racist either. Should have thought that was more your bag. Unlike Philby because I believe in representative democracy. Not quite sure how I could be similar to both given they are diametrically opposed on the political spectrum. Unless you are implying that they both followed a dictatorial political creed. In which case I would just point out that I would like another vote. What are you scared of?
@David And yet you would overturn the referendum result even though before it both sides said the result would be final ? .
Oswald Mosely conspired to make the British people subservient to Berlin
Kim Philby conspired to make the British people subservient to Moscow.
You and your fellow remainers conspire to make the British people subservient to Brussels.
Not really any different at all are you.
When people vote they retain the right to change their mind. I say again, please concentrate, we voted to leave we did not vote on how. In the customs union? No OK avoiding a hard border with Eire? Yes. OK how will you do both? Do we want to lose “passporting rights with regard to dealing in European financial transactions? Are we prepared to leave summarily without a deal?? Did we actually vote to become poorer?? Incidentally “project fear said the roof could fall in if we leave. As we have not yet done that I am not surprised it is yet to occur. Overturn the decision?? Not me just want to be sure these idiots negotiating on my behalf do not make a complete pigs ear of it. I say again, given your commitment to the sanctity of the ballot box, what are you scared of??
How many referendum ? :-) :-) :-)
By nature, referenda can really be only advisory, as was the Brexit one. We elect our parliaments to legislate, and our governments set policy. Why is everyone suddenly so intent on having referenda? “The will of the people” is often wrong, based on incomplete knowledge of the issues. Direct democracy translates into mob rule.
We want the UK to go away dammit, stop trying to educate them !
There is no need of a second referendum. They have already proved that this was useless since many people voted without really knowing what and why they were doing it and related to all of sorts of lies and fantasies to make their decision.
No, to late. Out. They showed us their true face.
Exactly. KICK them out even if they want back in.
No. Democracy and respect shouldn’t go in hand only when voters support our choice. ;-)
FINAL??? WHAT’S FINAL??? British People has ALREADY voted! Stop the violent soviet €U-propaganda!
No. Let them live the consequences of their decisions… at least for a while!
Preferably until they reach the level of Somalia.
Then we can accept them crawling back…maybe.
No please. Let them go. I think they really don’t support the European Union Project. If years from now they are not as prosperous as the EU countries and they want a piece of it, like in the past, well they’re welcome.
WTF? Did Britain have a referendum to join the EU?
@Sam !! Not quiet true. We had a referendum to join the EEC and it was sold to the population as a trading partnership only, called the Common Market. No mention of political or monetary union.
That’s up to Britain and the British.
What part of divorce do you not understand? Mummy and Daddy are going their seperate ways. They will not live under the same roof. They will no longer share a bed. Now put your dummy back in and accept this fact and get on with your life. Daddy no longer wants contact or child maintenance payments for the bastardized, mutated, genetic experiment called the EU…….when the child aims to control the parent then you have a problem. Goodbye EU…you were not born naturally….you are the result of a cruel Government genetic experiment…..gone horribly wrong.
As opposed to the really good way the UK was formed through feudal turf wars that eventually led to marriages between powerful families?
Would that change anything?
I think people underestimate the anger and frustration of Brexiteers at the sly and dirty tactics being used by the losers to try and steal our victory from us. There is a deep sense of outrage and disgust at our treatment at the hands of the EU. The cloak of friendship and camaraderie is lifted and we see clearly which countries have become our enemies and seek to harm us. I feel we are poised on the edge of revolution and it will not take much to light the powder keg. A second referendum could do that.
Name one way we’ve been mistreated by the EU.
You don’t think that demanding 40 billion from a friend before you will even enter talks is blackmail and extortion? You don’t think that the imposition of laws on a country that is no longer a member and can have no say in those laws is arm-twisting?
How many more examples of a bullying dictatorship do you need? It isn’t just Britain now, is it?
I presume you want Britain to become a province in a Soviet Union of Europe and are willing to fight for that cause against those who are willing to fight for freedom? I would love to see the convictions of snowflakes tested. I have a feeling they will melt when it comes to the actual confrontation they are driving us towards.
I’m quite sure this will be read by blind eyes but here we go:
The €40 billion is settling what we legally owe them and they’re well within their rights to ask for it. Don’t forget, were the ones leaving them, they aren’t kicking us out. The ‘imposition of laws’ is necessary for the transitional period that we asked for to stay in their single market. Can you name a single example of something done before we voted to leave? One?
Also, this relentlessly hysterical response about them taking our freedom and being the next Soviet union is ridiculous, and if you knew the methods used by the Soviets to keep their subject republics under control you’d know that.
Just tell me what they’re doing to ‘take our freedom’.
Why do you want friendship when less than half of your country wanted to destroy the life of millions of European citizens? Brexiters get what they deserve! Who is taking the freedom is not EU but your country. Your attitudes and actions are undermining the freedom of millions of British people who feel embraced by their fellow Europeans and want to be free to move and to cooperate with other European citizens.
We do not “legally” owe them anything. In fact. they”legally” owe us quite a bit. If you cannot see what is happening right in front of your eyes then you are either blind or one of Soro’s paid shills.
All your arguments have been put to the British people and rejected. We want to leave the EU. It rips us off, milks us dry, steals our fish, overrules our laws, wants to control our army, our borders, and impose taxes on us. I’m afraid you are a lost cause, you are the brainwashed enemy who has been trained to speak euroslobber. You need to leave Britain and go live in the super state you desire so much. If the EU is so great then why oh why are the elders, who should be respected and not sneered at, so determined for us to leave? You don’t even know that you’re a slave, do you? Some of us remember real freedom and true democracy.
@Tiago – the solution is simple, those who want to be part of the EU should move there. There’s nothing to stop them. Why should immigration only go in one direction? Perhaps when Spain and Portugal unite you won’t be so keen on the idea of being annexed.
I love this line of argument from the Brexitards. ‘Britain for the British. Unless you disagree with me then you should leave.’ I’ve asked you twice now for a specific reason you have to say the EU is doing bad things to us or takes our freedom and you haven’t done anything except repeat the lies published in the Express and the Mail and then yammer on incoherently about democracy and freedom with no reference to specific ways the EU supposedly threatens those things.
You are repeating the same old Blair, Clegg, Mandleson gravy-train dribble. They’ve all sold out to the EU, just like you.
For your information, The Express has been bought out by the lefties to further suppress our freedom of speech so you will need to dump that tired old argument which you have poached from the pages of the Guardian.
I have given you sufficient reasons but that won’t stop you working your way through your script. I know the method is to keep repeating the same questions and then dismiss all my answers as me parroting the right wing press. Your type never explain where your own sycophantic euromania comes from. Where is your unique source of information that is not tainted by the left? You’re obviously not British and you probably hate the British. So I welcome the day that you and your ilk are banished from our country and obliged to return to whatever country had the misfortune to spawn you.
More things I keel explaining:
Being europhillic has nothing left wing about it. The European parliament is dominated by centre right parties and the EU is widely criticised by the left wing as being a neoliberal club. As it happens I’m a socialist, yes. You gave vague answers about forcing laws on us (not true), wanting to control our army (not true), stealing our fish (not true), but no actual specifics. What laws have been imposed without our parliament’s say so exactly? What evidence is there that the EU want to control our army?
Incidentally, I am British. The things I’m proud of about my country are our reputation for sensible decisions and historical commitment to international engagement, neither if which is demonstrated by the name-calling, baseless accusations and xenophobia in that revolting response.
You have no right to be proud of our country. You are a traitor. Troll off.
I was born in the british Isles but I do not like the “united kingdom” it is a disgusting regime that has a long history of human rights abuses its leaders are power/money hungry and deliberately and persistently try to conflate its name ¨the United Kingdom¨ with the lands of Britain to deliberately confuse the british people (on both sides of the water ie. Brittany france). I am fundamentally European as Britain is a geographically area of EUROPE. By voting to separate, all you have done is chosen to be rules by a small more inbreed group of tyrants than a large group of tyrants. oh well, I suppose you stand a better chance of taking them out this way. but as long as the european people remain divided the elites will rule. The british population is being head-f**ked by the regime´s propaganda apparatus. Its such a sad thing to witness. I, for one, have not hung around to watch this situation deteriorate further. There are many sunny and interesting places on this planet to explore and live and MANY of them don´t give a toss about the trivial goings-on of north-western europe.
What a load of rubbish. It isn’t even written by someone who speaks fluent English. No Briton would ever claim to be born in the British Isles. We all know which part of the United Kingdom we are from. The propaganda is all aimed at keeping us within the Fourth Reich. But we will liberate ourselves because we have the guts to do it.
@Jay they only person who has been “head fucked” is you boy. Talking out your arse
@ Jay
Guess what, post Brexit you can still call yourself European, that is a geographical fact that cannot be voted away
What we have elected to leave is the EU which is an unnecessary, profligate bureaucracy trying to exert domination over the continent of Europe
…and human rights abuse wasn’t exclusive to the UK, I suggest you will find just as much historical abuse in the history of many European countries……some of which is much more recent than anything that can be blamed on the UK
We need an Exit-Brexit referendum.
No. They don’t want us and we don’t need them.
@Liri – Maybe we should march into your country and dictate to your people how they should be ruled and what alliances they should belong to.
No. Brexit means we leave the eu, totally. No single market no nothing. Just out
Brexit has been done.Question is.Should remaining 28 countries have a referendum on exit from dying EU governed by a staff of market sharks and warmongers without democratic procedures?
YES….europe without Britain is meaningless. …incomplete….we need a breath of democracy. ..and only Britain can supply it.
Yes, yes, yes
the UK was never very pro-EU, good they left.
This.
The EU should sigh in relief.
No, thank you.
Yes sssss
Do you think the general public had enough or the right information to vote On what was best for our country ?
They knew that following Cameron’s total failure to get any worthwhile concessions that the EU is hell bent on its own course and the way it is heading is not what the majority of people in the UK want. It also proved that any claims that we could stay in and “reform it from within” are a total fantasy
The problem at the moment is people selectively pick on individual topics when debating the pro and cons of Brexit e.g. immigration, NHS funding, trade etc…….where as the fundamental reason for Brexit is more basic than that, it is that the EU is a profligate, inefficient bureaucratic organisation with an agenda to justify and perpetuate its own existence, all done at great expense to the European taxpayers
Keep doing a referendum till they vote yes. Typical of the eu dictators
Oh poor journalists! Oh my dear! I’m crying for these journalists payed by the freemason Soros, the world criminal bankster!!
Amer What has that got to do with Great Britain leaving the pointless EU ?
The final One is done, out.
nae point the daft English will still vote to come out
No, it has been already done. As the referendum has an advisory role, it’s time for parliament to study and make a decision on this complex topic.
UK chosed the best option, and time will show it.
Would make sense, since a lot of people did not really knew what a Brexit would mean in reality.
Both sides made it perfectly clear what Brexit meant and to claim the British people didn’t understand it is just insulting. .
We are British and have no need of the pointless EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Britain should never never ever have a referendum lol
No believe me, Europe will be much better without Britain. Have a good day.
There is nothing to stop Germany owning you now.
Ivan ok if you think that’s European Union better stay clear.
Christos We are :)
Fascism, Nazism, Communism and now European-ism. Europeans have a habit of coming up with really stupid ideas.
No they shouldn’t as then they will probably demand referendum again and again keeping rest UE in limbo. In most of elections there is a group which really doesn’t know what the voting is about or believes in some fairytales but this is weak point of every single election/ referendum. If they changed their mind and they want to be part of EU they should vote for it in few years time and apply for membership again so brexiters won’t say in future that people wanted to go but bad EU didn’t let them or government decide against will of the people.
Yes. Only because they were lied to about certain things. It doesn’t mean the end vote will be any different though.
The lies came from the Remain group, fortunately people didn’t believe them and voted out of the pointless EU anyway :) How does it feel to be owned by Berlin ….. again ?
Whichever overlord you have sucks. The Tory servants for the mega-rich or the corporation loving EU. However there were lies on all sides that have now been cleared up. A second vote is fair in light of this info. And the end result may still be leave.
Julia You do know the mega rich and corporations were the ones lying don’t you and they were all remainers..
Our freedom from the antidemocratic EU is now assured :)
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/11/george-soros-best-for-britain-pro-eu-100000
Some corporation are remain-the ones whose trade is affected. UK government is worse than the EU, especially when it comes to the vulnerable and needy.
Too late and Theresa May said that she won’t hold one.
The British people have decided and we are leaving the pointless EU :) , cope with it.
Definitely
Their problem!
Our freedom :)
So, why are you still here, Ivan?
Yes.
Accept the deal and leave.
Reject the deal and leave.
Exactly..we don’t want them! Of course I mean the English, we want our Scottish cousins (let’s be honest, no1 gives a damn about the Welsh either way or ever has)
It’s not for Europe to debate this…uk has decided….due parliamentary process will be followed.
The FINAL Brexit has alrrady happened. Full stop
No, it has been already done. As the referendum has an advisory role, it’s time for parliament to study and make a decision on this complex topic.
Note that I’m french, living in Poitou a region under english control during 300 years during Middle Age. Good luck friend and neighbour !
Yes, a referendum at the end of the Brexit deal
After the uncover of the manipulation yes.
No!! We don’t need England holding back Europe anymore…only referendum needed is in Scotland to get off the sinking ship that is the UK and remain as EU citizens #UnitedIrelandUnitedEuropeNotUnitedKingdom #SNP
Good point. I partially share this point of view.
Good point, have a referendum on the matter in Scotland, oh, hang on…….. 🤔
Oh hang on what??? At the last referendum London told the Scots that if they left the UK that London would veto them joining EU..now opposite is the case..only by leaving UK can Scotland remain as EU citizens (and keep its’ oil revenues)
EU should be more flexible alowing countries easy join, leave and return
Yes. Clearly!
No! The British people have decided.
It should also be said that Brexit receives less attention in the EU27 because negotiation have become smoother and have seen substantial progress so it is welcome for both parties
No please, let them go. They were never in, anyway. May we all prosper as neighbours.
NO!! British will never change!!They don’t feel Europeans.They don’t belong in the big European family.Is sad but is true!
They should make a second referendum. Many people regret the vote. And it was all about propaganda by right wing scum that after the victory left the mess to others.
Or maybe the UK will be even better without an Eu ? , I just don’t know; everyone British I wrote to seemed just as incredulous to agree with the same too. Despite we lose a rich country such a Uk, every time I turn on the radio , I am bombarded by some economist declaring it doom and gloom if they leave.
I think we have to wait until 2020 , before to post.
the same mentality as birdlife in MALTA they wonted an other referendum
Another final referendum must be done before Brexit. There was slim margin, those who voted for Brexit are still pending for their decision. GB is needed for security, english language etc
Yup
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Another referendum.
Why not one each year, and in every other Member State too?
The irony behind it is that if a second referendum is done again i believe but 100% that the majority will want to stay in europe. The funny is that many people know it. Though i believe with all the crap and b*shit thats happening in europe i don’t them for exiting. actually malta who is really small would not be a good choice for sure./
Yes !
.
No thanks, we believe in democracy. :)
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/209433
England should had a referendum, right after the referendum
Nope, job done and we are leaving the pointless EU, no matter what the traitors in the house of Lords say.
No means Leave!
Ask Britons
I thought they did?
no. better – just drop out with no deal and immediatelly re-enter with new Article 49 to liberate from these unfair opt-outs like no euro, no schengen …
We will legally leave next year and then you can expect a political revolution to restore the powers of Magna Carta to ensure that we can never be taken back in, which was an act of treason against the British people. We shall be free again.
Yes, democracy works both ways.
And if they vote they don’t like it what then?
Are we in the EU supposed to say ” oh ok we’ll take you back then and give you opt outs again” ?
Hell no. Let them go out – preferably with zero deals.
I think both the eu and UK should just try and get over the tense affair and move on to seeing how they can mutually profit from one another in an amicable relationship.
lovely flag!!!
a new one is it???
☺☺☺
It’s an insult and the kind of thing that makes Brit’s hate the EU even more.
hi Ivan, just wanting to be funnily
provocative!!!
we love you☺
We voted on Brexit and won
It was to leave
NO DEALS NO MORE REFERENDUMS LIKE IRELAND VOTING TILL THE EU GOT THE RIGHT DECESION
NO DEALS JUST LEAVE
The people have spoken in the referendum the and the result was to leave as much as the remoaners don’t like that the result was leave no more referumns.
Must respect the referendum.
Y es…because the real consequences were not explained.
The consequences were explained fully by both sides & it was the pro EU fanatics who were found to have lied to the British people..
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/933837/Brexit-news-update-London-finance-sector-UK-European-Union-investment-latest-video
There are no consequences yet, otherwise it would be bad for UK. Get informed better Ivan.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/brexit-eu-withdrawal-policy-david-davis-policy-uk-michel-barnier-a8184076.html
Ivan K lol asking ivan to be informed… Good luck with that.
I don’t care!
No!! We do not want the English they have been an anchor holding EU back and always take the side of the U.S. not EU on global stage. BUT the Scottish should get out, declare independence and be full EU member #UnitedIrelandUnitedEuropeNotUnitedKingdom #SNP
Could you explain how Scotland could be independent in the EU when the whole point of the EU is NOT to be independent ? Like the SNP you do not seem to understand what independence means.
The current UK government is still the Leader for the degradation of the European economy, but Italy is currently doing everything in its power to help
Definitely!
Britain will have a civil war before it has another referendum. I have never seen people so angry after the arrest of Tommy Robinson. We are sitting on a powder keg over here.
that is just a small start of what Brexit is going to do to the normal english people.
You really should stop concerning yourself with Brexit, you have a far bigger problem in Italy.
Britain should have a referendum about having a referendum :))))))
Yes. Now people know the facts. And the deal has to be seen yet. If the yes voters are confident they won’t mind a referendum to confirm the countries decision.
Now we do indeed know the facts, pro EU fanatics lied to us about the pointless EU. We voted, we decided & now we are leaving :)
Here is when the great EU lie began.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXFssBHnRE
Yes, the brexit referendum was a scam based on lies and with the help of Russian interference. There is enough evidence, say Biritsh analytica providing Nigel with micro targeting data, as well as an army of russian(or related) trolls propagating lies to the public.
Sure, brexiters should not worry, if they are confident that british people actually want this. My guess is that, if referendum is to be hold again, this time without russian intereference, it will probably yield a 65% in favour to remain in the eu.
I think this is unlikely. While I disagreed with the result, I now accept it and I now back it – as I have come to the conclusion the EU will never reform correctly and is unfit for purpose.
I was one of the few remain campaigners who honestly campaigned in favour of the EUs federalist agenda.
Simply No!
why….if a deal is agreed we leave with the deal , if it is rejected we leave without a deal….
They already voted for their destiny. Why is gaining terrain the thesis that when some result is not favorable, it is necessary to have more and more and more referendums or votings until a satisfactory result comes out and pleases few..
Some nations never change the way of thinking.Useless.
And it’s older, it learnt more from his history as a younger one!
No, they voted for it just do it. ‘Let the chips fall where they may'(excuse the pun)
Chips with fried eggs, baked beans, tomato ketchup, lashings of salt and vinegar with buttered bread for sarnies, its lovely :) As is Brexit lol
Ivan Worcestershire sauce?
Should politicians be held to the truth. Thats the main question.
The referendum was democracy at work but we’re the arguments factual or inflamatory and populistic.
For most Brit’s who actually thought about it the question was ‘Do you want to be part of a future united states of Europe ruled from Brussels/Berlin ?’ The answer was no.’ :)
Ivan maybe so. That of course presumes a future model for Europe. In addition, isn’t that a similar micro model of the United Kingdom.
Jan There is no presumption about it, the goal of the EU is very clearly laid out in its treaties & the EU model has very few similarities to the UK, for a start ours is a democratic system whereas the EU is autocratic.
Ivan so imposing your will on Scotland and Ireland is democracy? Intresting. Well on my part I’m sorry to see you go. I guess the comming years will give some conclusive answers.
No. They have already had a referendum and the government has decided the way. They can not change the cards on the table at the end, just because they did not think they had advantageous agreements in going out.
Should all EU
members have referendums to exit oligarchic EU
But if they’ll be respect is an other question…
Not going to happen, the British people have spoken and we are leaving the pointless EU 8|. You keep asking this question so can we take it the realisation of just how bad it will be for the EU as finally sunk in at Debating Europe ?
.
Pro EU fanatics have another problem to worry about as it looks likely another of the few net EU contributors will leave :)
https://euobserver.com/tickers/142005
Yeahh, and the Scots will leave GB and NI will join Ireland. Not to forget Catalunya etc.
Ridiculous things like Gibraltar having its own FA have been happening – I welcomed the EU for uniting things. Tearing them apart is far easier, yet usually byitself doesn’t provide benefits.
Simon lol, thanks for giving us more of project fear comrade, always puts a smile on my face lol :)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/24/germany-elections-afd-europe-immigration-merkel-radical-right
No the uk had the vote, we voted leave time to get on with it and stop pussy footing around.
no it would create further chaos
Britain will prevale.Why are some people so scared ?
Britain is already doing quite well. People are afraid because groups like this are doing their job. Inciting fear with moronic questions one after the order
Simply because they know that when people across the EU see you can actually survive outside the idiotic political union they too will leave. Brussels is terrified of this reality.
João So Britain is doing well while inside EU? Because they haven’t left yet 😂
If it really is the Will of the people then the results shall be the same
Like Ireland? Voted no the first time, then voted yes the second time. Normally I would say yes, but the UK blocks beneficial EU proposals and many EU members can’t wait to see the back of UK from the EU. So, no it is not a good idea lol
Really ?
How does it feel to be owned by Berlin ?
https://www.politico.eu/article/commission-gets-glimpse-of-post-brexit-eu-budget-horrors/
Ivan Burrows I see it more like a dysfunctional selfish marriage where hubby EU needs to reform or his 27 wives in the EU harem will request a divorce. I think the EU is a great idea if it includes people in its priorities. Otherwise is a slightly better husband than the UK government (husband) is to the UK citizens.
Plus Germany and the countries mentioned doesn’t need funds, they make billions and trillions. Germany needs to drop its unfair status as the favourite EU wife and a more fair, equal and social EU is required in at least the basics.
Democracy is voting. Brexiteers are afraid of a free and INFORMED VOTE.
They have already express their opinion.
João they were not informed properly though
Luca You mean lied to? Politicians tend to do that when promising the impossible.
Sim. Britain não pode auto excluir-se da Europa. Europa e Britain separaras serão ambas muito mais fracas. A separação será um trunfo para os nossos perigosos inimigos e um grande perigo para a paz mundial.
Yeah. Britain cannot exclude itself from Europe. Europe and Britain will both be much weaker. Separation will be an asset to our dangerous enemies and a great danger to world peace.
Medo! Tenham muito medo! Esse argumento tem mais buracos que uma rede de pesca.
Fear! Be very afraid! That argument has more holes than a fishing net.
We are not leaving ‘Europe’ we are just leaving the pointless EU & rejoining the free world :)
Pura ilusão.
Pure illusion.
Nope :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
No sense to make a referendum and then make a second to ask if the answer of the first is true
Fokc off with that Brexit already!
they already have -.-
Yep, we are just waiting for the UK politicians & EU bureaucrats to finish the paperwork :)
A new referendum :
Brexit 25%
EU 75%
lol
No more drama please!
It’s in the British interest to do so. But is it in OUR interests here here on the continent?
No, Noé is time for they go.
If they want another referendum, they should have it. That’s what democracy is about. As EU I would also like that Britain votes on the terms of Brexit. Maybe they won’t like them …
This is like asking if we should fight WW2 again because we didn’t like the result. If there is so much as a hint of a second referendum the dam will burst and all hell will break loose.
No….the result of the referendum was clear.. what matters now is ensuring the best deal for all.
Yes. Many people did not a) understand the dire consequences of not voting, and b) how little our politicians gave a shit about leaving the European Union.
NO, the people have already decided, a small percentage of protesters are not grounds for a referendum.
There was a slim margin, another referendum will clarify the whole situation;Brexit or Bremain. The Britain will survive without EU and vice versa but what will be the vision of Britain for the future of the state and nation and diplomatic relationship with other EU countries?
I think we Europeans should have a referendum on what kind of Brexit to give them…
London’s people does not like brexit.but they must accept it..
no, the people voted to leave. I know fully well why this “second referendum” is pushed, to prolong the Brexit. the people voted to leave and leave they shall.
Goodbye yellow brick road…
The best way for UK is building a stronger Commonwealth and making her own way out of EU beurocracy.
Like all the others 175 countries trough the world
YES!!!!!
It’s their business!
nope just stop brexit
The first one should be investigated who lied .
Then with true information a second one so citizens have true information .
Lol and what is “true information”
Vladislav
All information stripped from Russian lies 🤣
Vladislav comrade Putin of KGB
Remainers lied about everything and they’re trying it again with Project Fear the sequel.
It’s very simple Vlad, it’s called fact checking. There is no alternative truth in life. Just truth.
Do you mean the lies told by the quislings ? 8|
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/falling-unemployment-marks-another-black-day-for-project-fear/
Thereasa is getting step back of eu lol
Stop Brexit. David Cameron should be sued.
Why?
We know the EU hates democracy but this is not Ireland & we have decided and are leaving the pointless EU, cope with it. 8|
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/915306/Brexit-news-Germany-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-UK-EU-European-Union
Ana is from the eu not england.
If you’re not British you should not have an opinion. How dare any of you try to prevent our freedom after all that we sacrificed to give you yours. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, once again, not having the guts to stand up to the Germans and break free yourselves.
If you’re not a Latin people you should not use these Latin letters.
1)It’s called freedom of speech, opinion and thought Wendy. It’s a sacred principle of any advanced democracy, try to listen to the ones who have a different opinion from you while you still can.
2)No, you haven’t sacrificed that much for our freedom, mostly of what you did in the past ( I guess you are referring to ww1&2) you did it for your own safety. And if you want to approach any matter from an historical point of view i guarantee you that the UK has been just another brutal empire in human history.
3) keeping on the path of history, if there is one thing we should have learned from the last century is that only together we can maintain peace. Injustice of any kind will always be present but it’s together that we can keep it contained and slowly reduce it.
4) we should also know by now that going too radically on the right or on the left is just bad for everybody, not just for oneself. So we really not only should have an opinion on the matter but we should also share that opinion with you.
5) don’t worry, we’ll keep the nowadays Germans, you can have Trump and Farange. And if you think they are better then Merkel, Tusk, Cameron or even Theresa May(all people i don’t like, i am way more on the left than them)…well…Then I am ashamed for you since you can’t be it for yourself.
If you’re not British you should not have an opinion says a brit on an european forum after voting to leave it!
Pedro Correct it is a ‘European forum’ but we are not leaving ‘Europe’, we are leaving the pointless EU. The clue is in the page title 8|
Jack Given you are governed by an unelected European Politburo what makes you think you have democracy in the EU ?
By opposition to the today Europeans the Romans they could lose the title of Roman citizens and become slaves.
The slaves of Rome could buy their freedom and become freedmen.
In Europe, Europeans never ceased to be Europeans, nor did the Nazis ever cease to be Europeans
And the slaves of Europeans were slaves all their lives, just as their children and grandchildren were slaves too, they could not afford to buy freedom.
We must be able to take away our European citizenship, as the Romans did.
Too late for shattered EU to be saved
think you’re day dreaming…
No , we voted and the answer was leave .
No the UK already voted and the support for Brexit was weak and no action on it should have ever been taken. Stop Brexit now. That was a farce, you cannot vote for something and you have no clue as to what that something is.
Then the vote to join should also be null & void and we should not be in the pointless EU, well done for agreeing with the majority of British people.
Ivan There was no referendum to join, UK joined because UK voluntarily elected a party that overwhelmingly wanted to join. Are you sure you have a clue as to what you are on about. No clue when voting, no clue now.
Vincent Yes there was in 1973 & in 1975. Clearly it is you that has no clue.
This is when the great United states of Europe lie started for us, other Nations have their own starting point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyylczXAJA8
Ivan You should be ashamed of yourself and should have not been allowed to vote as you have no clue. There was never a referendum to join but Edward Heath. There was a referendum by Harold Wilson and that was to leave or to stay and the result was overwhelmingly to stay.
Ivan If you do not remember why not read some real history of the UK instead of searching you tube and pick the wrong clips for someone else and you do not watch them yourself.
you were not prepared …did not have enough awareness about it…
now I think you could have a more realistic knowledge about Brexit 🤔🤔🤔
I think need it is a mistake and I would love to see it stop right now. That said, it seems impossible to avoid another referendum on the matter to do so.
And to the ones who say ”no, we voted we decided, it’s done, you lost” i remind you that when you buy a house you first decide if you wanna buy it or no but then you check everything before concluding the business. Going blind is for idiots, Englishmen and women are many things but I rather think that most of them are not such…idiots.
How can leaving a dictatorship be a mistake, would you say the same thing of the Eastern European countries when they left the USSR ?
The comparison is ridiculous. The universal vote is a necessary but not sufficient condition to determine the existence of democracy. This last has to have a partition of powers in between different institutional branches that cooperate and compete with the aim of exercise the rule of law on a territory. The Ussr was something very different. The EU is something very similar.
It is true that a more radical democratisation of European politics has to happen, but that’s mostly because, with all the benefits that the free trade and movement have given to all of us =sharing and growing peacefully together for the last 60 years is not a small achievement = there is still plenty of people like you who draw a net distinction between own nationals and all the others human beings, let apart the only European citizens.
Broaden your horizon man! We are in this together.
This is democracy, britain has already decided. Its their business
lol, nope. ‘So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye’ 8|
Nope 8|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Who are you to even suggest such a thing ?
We’re a debating platform. Asking questions is what we do.
Debating Europe Will you be asking the European people if they ever voted for the political union project? 🤔
Rob you’re pushing it now :p don’t make smart question please..
We love Europe
So do we, we just hate the pointless EU :)
Yes, they should. Because economies of today or so complex and interconnected, “Vote to Leave” and “Vote to Leave Deal” are 2 very very different things.
Bye bye
Deixai OS ir,sao livres para pensaren,ou nao? Ou todos hemos que comer o que nao gustamos? Cada vez hemos menos liberdade? Talvez!.
Yes!
Too late….whatever deal is agreed will need to be ratified by 28 national governments and about a dozen regional assemblies….no time to fit in another referendum prior to march 29.
Oooooo yes. Otherwise european poor friends will face critical financial problem.
Simply – No!
No , we should just walk away now.
Deal or no deal, they already voted to leave! :)
Why is there a debate in EU how they should leave?
of no value .. the population were lied to before and the same will happen again
The terminology “Brexit” itself is fundamentally false. This is an “Englishexit”. Scotland and N. Ireland voted for stay in.
Democratic legitimacy requires constant renewal. That’s the reason we have elections every five years or sometimes sooner. Demanding another referendum doesn’t conflict with the principles of democracy. People who see the second referendum is a violation of democracy, they should read about the Munich Agreement.
Brits want out and should go
I think that after the lies told about the exit, about its benefits, a second referendum would be a good idea
Somehow I think Brexit will open trade routes only to Russia, Belarusia, of course excluding poor Ukraine 🙂 Good luck with that 🙂 In my opinion exactly Russian network widely spreading across the europe will keep Britain under control. Britain has already become marionette 🙂 If you cannot see or hear who is who, you cannot win the battle.
Yes. Before committing an irreversible act a verification and confirmation of the continuing will to proceed with it is a must
Surely it would be more democratic to have one,since the consequences were not explained properly by all before the referendum. Personally now, I would exit anyway the E.U. as it is today…..undemocratic and bureaucratic ,imposing rules without the consent of the citizens…..and highly unfair and misanthropic.
The type where you assign points. Eg. 5 options, you can elect to give one option 5 points, another option 4 points, another 3..etc.
Britain already had a referendum for the issue. The people have spoken. And for the people that campaigning for a new referendum, if one takes place and the STAY wins, in a year they will have a new one?? Things do not work this way. Britain must exit the EU. This is the will of the people.
When British voters voted for Brexit in 2016, they did not really know what they were voting about. A lot of lies had been said on both sides (and most important, there was no deal then). Now, after two and a half years of negotiations The British government and the EU have reached a deal.
Now, in a really democratic situation, the British government should turn to the people again and ask “Look this is what we’ve gained, this is what we’ve lost: do you approve of the Deal or not ? And then what do we do ?”
No, you lost, deal with it, no more winning, let it go.
As of now there is no “deal” because it was rejected by the widest margin a sitting government has lost a vote in the history of the Commons. There is just a cliff on 29 March they are on their way to jump off of.
being United Kingdom a democracy the final decision about the Brexit agreement should be decided by the British
Yep.
Why…..there was already referendum and people said no to corrupt eu! Oohhh, the globalist and the Elite didn’t like it obviously
“corrupt Europe”? You cannot speak without have a proof. So, I am waiting for an explanation!
Every mistake could be fixed. Yes, they should have! They cannot survive by themselves. How can you deal if you are so small, UK? There are China, USA, Russia, Europe… in short time maybe India . Who are you going to choose as partner ? :))
They make up tjeir minds.
It’s up to them, nobody should force them
Nobody wants EU anymore
Scotland and N. Ireland voted for EU. Britain will lose two Unions, The UK and EU with Englishexit, not Brexit!
No.
Shall they continue voting until they ‘get it right’?
Decision or referendum, that’s it
European democracy make referendum no difference remember the Greek no became yes, Europe is a joke talking about democracy freedom of speech and corruption!!
It’s no joke. There should have been much information before the first referendum.
It is logic to make a new referendum because now the whole picutre about the consequence of Brexit becomes claire .
There was no 2nd referendum anywhere after a successful first referendum about joining the EU even though the consequences were not known. It was supposed to be all about economic cooperation, free trade and jobs.
I said : It is logic and fair if there is another referendum !!
So what? Just because the consequences are now seen as negative now they can just decide once more?
Yes.. People didn’t know what they voted for. All because of their prime minister who taught it would be a walk in the park..
At this point the British people deserve a first real referendum between two options: go with a deal and remain (and help to make EU better) . In 2016 they had not a referendum but just a gut survey
They should have anothe Brexit referendum period
Should stop jerking and take a decision.
UK should leave for Europe sake
This is entirely up to the citizens of the UK.
The question of whether to leave or stay has already been decided. The question of deal or no deal could be decided by a referendum.
They had a referendum, 3 years ago. This happens because EU has so bad politicians and the beaurocrats rules. Stop thinking only to tax those who really work.
Better a DELAY than the wrong deal or no deal