The people have spoken. On 23 June 2016, 52% of voters in a national referendum made it clear they would like the United Kingdom to leave the European Union. We know what they voted against (EU membership), but what did they actually vote for? Was it a vote to control borders and reduce immigration at any cost (even if it damages the economy)?

What sort of relationship does Britain want with Europe? Should it be an EU-Canada style trade deal, which might hurt economically but would guarantee the greatest degree of sovereignty over borders and laws? Or should it be a closer arrangement, along the lines of Norway, which would help minimise economic disruption at the cost of becoming a “rule taker” of EU laws and regulations?

Some (including the Irish Prime Minister) believe the referendum debate was inadequate. They argue that the “Leave” campaign was too ambiguous about the future relationship it wanted with the EU. The available options (Canada, Norway, Switzerland, WTO) were not spelled out clearly, and people were led to believe they could “have their cake and eat it” instead of making an informed decision about the trade-offs involved. There are even voices arguing that Brexit should be stopped, and not just from British “remoaners”; a group of influential German business leaders recently started lobbying for the UK to change its mind and stay in the EU.

Would such an outcome be anti-democratic? Voters are allowed to change their minds when they vote for a new government, so why can’t they reconsider their Brexit vote? Polling in the UK by YouGov suggests a clear majority (64%) think the British government are handling the Brexit negotiations badly. For several months there has also been a majority (albeit a slim one) who believe that, in hindsight, Britain was wrong to vote for Brexit.

However, we’re not asking “should” Brexit be stopped. We’re asking if it’s even possible. We had a comment from Alex, who wants to know what it will take to “reverse Brexit”. Is that even an option?

We put Alex’s comment to Katarina Barley, Germany’s Family Affairs Minister. She caused controversy earlier in 2017 by suggesting that the UK should hold another referendum on Brexit after the negotiations are concluded. Does she really believe Brexit could be stopped?

Can Brexit be stopped? A majority in Britain voted for a Brexit. Now they also have to deal with the consequences. I think it’s absolutely right for the EU to take a hard line in dealing with Great Britain. We must be clear: there is no better deal [than EU membership]. Everything else would have fatal consequences for Europe.

In an interview, I made myself very unpopular in the British tabloid press. In it, I demanded that the British vote once again on the overall package after the end of the Brexit negotiations. I am sure that the result would be fundamentally different than the first vote. For most people, it’s only just dawning on them the sort of irreparable damage that has been done.

We also spoke to Richard Corbett, a Labour MEP (Note: The interview was originally recorded back in May). What would he say?

This is all very well, but is it legally and politically possible? We had a comment from Rémi who reminds us that the UK is locked into a two-year process with Article 50. When the two years are up then the UK is out (unless there is unanimous agreement to extend the negotiations in the European Council).

To get a response, we spoke to Peter Catterall, a constitutional expert and Professor of History and Policy at the University of Westminster. What would he say?

Is Article 50 revocable? Well, probably, because I think in the end this comes down to politics, not law. We’ve always seen with European law that it’s malleable according to politics. The European Court of Justice has always had a slightly political interpretation of how things operate. If the political will was there to revoke it on the British side – because I don’t think there’s a problem with the political will to revoke it on the other side, whatever the Brexiteers say – then it would no doubt happen. The problem is that there is no political will to do that as yet, partly because even if you look at people in the government who suspect that this is going to be a disastrous outcome (which may well include the Prime Minister herself), they are prisoners of the Right-Wingers in their own party.

Can Brexit be stopped? Can Article 50 be revoked? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Garon S – Portrait Barley: (c) / Bundesregierung – Steffen Kugler


456 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

    • avatar
      Diaconu George Razvan

      52% and non-compulsory as a referendum. this are not results that would enforce even a moral reason!

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      People have spoken. Everyone voted even by absense. If people dont care to vote, they are fine with anything.

    • avatar
      Ivan Burrows

      Marcin Cieślikowski You mean lies like ‘There will be NO United states of Europe’ or ‘There will be NO EU army’ or ‘The British economy will collapse if we leave’ or … etc, etc ? There was indeed lies told to the British people during the referendum, by traitors, Brussels & EU fanatics.

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      Germany and Sweeden created this migrant crisis and are forcing it on all EU even tho majority of people in EU are against it, by large margin

    • avatar
      Marcin Cieślikowski

      The overall trade deficit widened to £5.6bn in August from £4.2bn in July, for the biggest gap between imports and exports in 11 months, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). Look on food inflacion too.

    • avatar
      Spyros Kouvoussis

      Marcin Cieślikowski but pro-EU were a beacon of truth, huh?

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      Britain has epic housing chrisis but you want EU and more people ….stupid

    • avatar
      Marcin Cieślikowski

      Marko Martinović Ok You call trade deficit speculation. Call everyone stupid maybe You will get smarter from that.

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      Its like you are from another dimension and can read only what you want to read.

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      Out of the EU you have a chance for much better deals, but only if you stop sabotaging yourselves and cucking to hell

    • avatar
      Marcin Cieślikowski

      Marko Martinović Yes, you have a better trade deal for one country than for 28 countries, dream on….

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      You where better off before EU… that is a fact. Not only in trade. Now you have to accept terrorism and you have to build walls on bridges. Rational people would fight a war to stop that lunacy

    • avatar
      Marko Martinović

      They put a wall out of cement blocks, after last car terrorist attack

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Marcin Cieślikowski
      Bremaniacs lied too!

    • avatar
      Mi Gu

      That’s not the point, and by the way, a democracy based on lies isn’t a democracy, it’s just manipulation; and you need to be smarter, the question isn’t can Europe stop the Brexit, but more, can the UK population, after realizing the BIG mistake they are doing, after all the lies came out, could, if THEY want it, to stop it

  1. avatar
    Paul Vincent

    There appears to be nothing in law to allow or prevent art 50 from being rescinded…however any move to do so would be challenged in court…so the delays in thst, plus the on going shambles in germany would play havoc with the brexit timetable.
    Ultimately this is a political decidion…but would lead to more división within uk.
    Also it is unclear whether uk rebate and opt outs would remain.
    Frankly, rather than fantasize over this, would be better to focus on the future outside what is fast becoming a dysfunctional union..

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Brexit thing is the articulation of the will of people. Yep its messy to the failing eu but they played hard without thinking what the effects be. Now the eu should pay the price.

    • avatar
      Antonio Leanza

      You’re not right man. This brexit thing is the outcome of the will of SOME people, with an economic impact on wide European scale. Chinese will conquer us, including the Tories and the British people that will pay a very high price soon as well.

    • avatar
      Antonio Leanza

      You’re not right man. This brexit thing is the outcome of the will of SOME people not aware of macro-economical dynamics, with an economic impact on wide European scale. Chinese will conquer us, including the Tories and the British people that will pay a very high price soon as well.

    • avatar
      Pen Lister

      The referendum was only ever meant to be advisory. It’s in the act from 2015, and elsewhere.

    • avatar
      Bogdan Iliuță Istrate

      Jan Kowalski the rise of the Nazi party in 1930’s Germany was also the will of the people. this doesn’t mean people are always right ;)

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Antonio Leanza I dont think so. In current shape and no way of reforms situation of membership of euro is unsustainable. Even more so under this rule, the chinks and rus would have conquered us easily with this budget and welfare bloat and near-dead economies. Eu might get reborn but Germany and France should apply for joining the eastern europe+uk+southern europe on our rules. Then we have some non-zero chance of succeeding. With Germany+France at helm we clearly dont.

  2. avatar
    Daniel Parvanov

    Maybe vote for Brexit in 2016 will be different if EU managed to deal wit migrant crisis in 2015 … We never know

  3. avatar
    Jose Quintans

    Ask them if they agree with the Brexit deal, once it is sorted out.
    That could create an opportunity for everybody to re-think their Brexit vote.

    • avatar
      Lynne Warner

      What, instead of dying with you??

    • avatar
      Ângelo Do Carmo

      Shut up and go back to your country. You dont belong in EU.

    • avatar
      De Visu Carlo

      Totally agree. England did everything in its possibilities to gain and not give back to Europe. Yes, maybe we will die, but togethr, you will still live in your newly muslim country.

    • avatar
      Ivan Burrows

      Ângelo Do Carmo How does it feel to be owned by the Germans…. again ? :)

    • avatar
      Ângelo Do Carmo

      Well, they are civilized, unlike the brits. So, its good to be in a union with them. I think scots and irish and wallish also agree with me.
      How does it feels to lose all you companies to germany?

    • avatar
      Ângelo Do Carmo

      Well, they are civilized, unlike the english. So, its good to be in a union with them. I think scots and irish and wallish also agree with me.
      How does it feels to lose all you companies to germany?

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Ivan, how does it feel to be owned by Russians?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Ângelo Do Carmo
      Over our dead body! :)

    • avatar
      Andy Goldsby

      Oh, don’t be like that. Have a hug from someone English. It’s not you, it’s us…let’s face it….it was never going to work in the long run…you don’t play cricket.

    • avatar
      Ângelo Do Carmo

      Eheheh its a pitty that you stopped playing football. It used to be the best in the world.

  4. avatar
    Christos Georgiadis

    Whether Brexit can be stopped in accordance to the relevant treaties, I don’t know.

    What I do know is that politically I don’t w a n t it to be stopped unless the UK forgoes all the exemptions it has secured over the years and commits to avoid requests for more exemptions in the future.

    • avatar
      Paulius Paždagis

      You are trying to be smart and tolerant, but please realize that this wasn’t actually democracy since a lot of people are admitting that they were lied to and they would vote remain next referendum. Also it was almost a tie. And also, Scotland voted unanimously remain.

    • avatar
      Vytautas Vėžys

      Well actually it was democracy. You were presented with project and where it leads.
      All data, critics and debates were publicaly available and everyone could check them before voting.
      By voting on such importand question you confirm that you agree to consequences that could come.
      After voting you can’t take your vote back. If we could we would never have any elected polutician or law, cause everything would be changing every day.

    • avatar
      Akis Kalliabotsis

      Democracy without checks and balances does not really express the majority’s will. It is prone to populism and misinformation. I agree with Paulius Paždagis.

    • avatar
      Vytautas Vėžys

      Once again: You gave your vote “For it” or “Against it”. If you had doubts you could not vote or vote against changes.
      Referendum of Lithuania joining EU was based on propaganda (no negative effects were mentioned in debates) misinformation (A lot of promises where just pulled out of politicians asses like building new nuclear power plant and rising wages to Europe level), bribes (For vote everyone get bottle of beer) or to and even law was ignored allowing it to run 2 days to get required number of votes). Even our politicians admired that nobody read the whole documentation before signing joining EU papers.
      But despite everything we must obey because “Joining EU was democratic will of the people and we must obey what we get”.

    • avatar
      Dee O'brien

      Vytautas Vėžys we were told “vote yes for jobs!” In Ireland… We never got those jobs

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      This whole eu club is based on deception. We got conned into joining too in Poland. Similar story to Lithuanian one was used on us. Leave the sinking ship as long as You can.

    • avatar
      Sovannara Chea

      Agreed. Brexit should be respected and positively seen as a diversity of choice and leadership competition between UK and European Union – EU.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Sovannara, You can talk to eu hand. They will listen You and respect your rights coming out of democracy and pluralism but only as long as You agree 100% with them. When You cease, they will put the hands on their ears and call You a nazi.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Its called sore losers in us.

    • avatar
      Mi Gu

      Because today things have changed, and after all the lies came out, the population have chance their minds… it’s that a democracy? not letting the people change their minds?

    • avatar
      Shirley Oliveira

      In that case what do you suggest? Making a referendum until the result suits you guys?

    • avatar
      Paul X

      @Mi Gu , a couple of points

      1) Who says the population have changed their mind?

      2) There were lies on both sides of the referendum and on balance, the lies from the remain camp have proven to be the most inaccurate

      3) The referendum campaign was just one small part of the whole issue, the UK’s distrust of the EU has gone on for decades, and considering this was the first opportunity in over 40 years for the public to voice an opinion, the result should have come as a shock to no-one

      4) The bullying and blackmail by the EU currently being disguised as “negotiations” is doing nothing but hardening the attitude of more people in the UK towards the EU

  5. avatar
    Paulo Especial

    It could, only, be stopped if the British so desired with an expressed vote upon a new referendum and, then, it’s government so deciding and even so the EU would have to accept such decision and to stop the exit of the United Kingdom only after all it’s remaining members accepted that proposal.

  6. avatar
    Andy Alderson

    Despite what the loony left media and a handful of quislings tell you, there is no major desire in the UK to stop brexit.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Correct, and the more the EU refuses to carry out any meaningful negotiations the more public opinion is swinging to us just “walking away”

      The whole Brexit affair is the fault of the EU for two reasons:
      a) Its arrogance in believing it can do no wrong and that no-one would dare leave
      b) Its total lack of understanding of the British public

    • avatar
      Karolina

      however, the UK has still not dared to leave and the eu has totally understood the British public now, which is why it is not bothering with it… ha!

    • avatar
      John Demaine

      Where is this left wing media!? I’ve searched everywhere but can only find right controlled media 😂

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karolina
      What alternative reality are you living in?
      We’ve voted to leave – Article 50 has stipulations don’t you know!

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, the UK will be leaving on the 29th March 2019, why would they need to “dare” to leave before the defined exit date?…..and agreed, the EU doesn’t seem to be bothered about the public of any country as long as they keep quiet and pay their tax on time

  7. avatar
    John Vincent

    Brexit can and should be stopped. But we have leaders like minnows. There’s got to be a change if the long term future is not to be decline

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      It wont but worry not much if You are Briton. You have been given false equivalence of uk out of eu means demise whereas Huge amount of people believes the demise will be there but more for eu whereas for uk things will get better. For Britain quotes lately express .co .uk article which says leave of uk will cause huge gap in the eu budget. Pay no extortion money to those criminals and You will be more than fine.

    • avatar
      Ivan Burrows

      And be like Greece ? No thanks.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      For the beard of the Zeus, Belgs/Dutchmen are so pathetic.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Your assumption that a country with the history, culture and financial situation of the UK will have the same results in the Eurozone as Greece shows not only your total lack of appreciation for the UK but also your ignorance. Whoever is paying you to post this nonsense on here might as well flush the money down the toilet.

  8. avatar
    La F Ham

    Even if it could be stopped why would the UK ever wish to reintegrate into a framework which has robbed from Peter to give to Paul. The Eastern integration has absolutely crippled the wealthier western and Nordic states and its clear that some states still have Pot heads and old chummy Eastern connections which they’ve folded into the cake mix. And here in an age of turbulence France and Germany are engaged in their joyful new delight of Anglo-Murica bashing. Somebody whack these kids in Brussels with a big fat history book please.

    • avatar
      Acsai György

      And there are many other issues that you may find smooth, while others may find them problematic.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      La F, many many good people are working on stomping on them with juggernaut feet. Brexit is not the end, its rather just a beginning.

  9. avatar
    Filipi Mark

    What ever the people reply to you back
    You are going to make your on D N
    This is just like a fun , posting something

  10. avatar
    Craig Willy

    I guess you could have a second referendum. But you really shouldn’t until the first one is implemented, or you’ll just be feeding “populism” and delegitimizing the mainstream elites who (again) refuse to respect the will of the people when this clashes with globalist doctrine.

  11. avatar
    Paul X

    Typical Europhile blinded view from Katarina Barley “it’s absolutely right for the EU to take a hard line in dealing with Great Britain. We must be clear: there is no better deal [than EU membership]”……

    …..of course there can be a better deal, the EU does not add any value to what it does…it doesn’t earn anything…it merely distributes wealth whilst skimming off enough to keep itself in wine and business lunches……and as a basic law of physics is you cannot make something from nothing, among the EU members there must be winners and losers and currently the UK is a big net loser….

    ..if the EU had actually given Cameron a better deal a couple of years ago Brexit would never have happened, but their arrogance prevented them and if you don’t give those who are contributing the most a better deal than the rest then you have to expect them to walk away

    • avatar
      Karolina

      What is this “Europhile” BS, Paul? You are aware we are EU citizens? Are you accusing us of loving ourselves? Is it supposed to be any other way?

      You’re turning into a Kremlin troll as well? I bet you’re one of the “free of charge” ones…

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, ……..not bullshit, it’s in the dictionary, go look it up….you can call your self an EU citizen but I would rather not. “EU citizenship” is a fantasy title promoted by the EU which it is not entitled to use as it is neither a nation or a state… personally I’m British as it says on my passport,and I’m also European because the UK is part of the continent of Europe…I am not EU because that is a profligate, political, incompetent bureaucracy and not something I want my name associated with

      “accusing us of loving ourselves”..yes I suppose I could be, there are certainly plenty of europhiles in the corridors of power in Brussels who think they are something special

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karolina
      The UK will leave the EU.
      The rancid, fervid and horrid behaviour of the EU will mean we will never join again!

  12. avatar
    Amadeu Cardoso De Sousa

    52% vs 48% is a virtual tie. To have based such an important decision on a Simple Majority (50+1) rather than an Overwhelming Majority (60 vs 40) was fundamentally wrong. To claim that “the people have spoken” is a misrepresentation.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      and what do you think the message was from the 28% of the UK electorate who didn’t bother to vote ….it certainly wasn’t pro-EU was it?

    • avatar
      Ivan Burrows

      It is only a ‘misrepresentation’ if you are on the losing side :)

  13. avatar
    Vincent Treanor

    Brexit is in breach of the Good Friday Agreement.
    If anything can rescue the Brits from the self destruction of Brexit, it will be the Irish border.

    • avatar
      Declan O'Sullivan

      Of course if the UK offered NI to Éire they could push ahead with Brexit and save even more cash.

    • avatar
      Vincent Treanor

      OK but let’s keep this real. Handing NI over to the UK would be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement. So is a hard Brexit, or possibly any kind of Brexit.

    • avatar
      Declan O'Sullivan

      That’s interesting, the GFA forbids NI from joining Éire? Could NI become a state in it’s own right?

    • avatar
      Múiris Ó Máille

      Vincent Treanor is correct Declan O’Sullivan. The GFA explictly puts the fate of NI in the hands of the NI people. Legally only they can decide to stay or go via border poll (ironically the only referendum the UK is legally obliged to respect by way of UN garunteed treaty). An independant NI is in no ones interest or desire. Its a one or the other equation.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      The Irish can easily exercise their right to self-determination and seek to join the Republic. It would be the best possible outcome for them. Occupiers out.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Christos Georgiadis
      Exemptions – don’t say ‘rebate’ as you’d have me crying with laughter!

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Vincent Treanor
      NI is already in the UK?!?!?!

  14. avatar
    Pedro Jorge Lemos

    We dont like UK anymore…. what they did was very bad and proof how puppets they are like us but much worst…

    • avatar
      Zoltan Papp

      Well , how do you mean ” WE ” , are you a repsensentatíve of Europeans , or what ? Pedro just speaking in your name , pls ! 😉

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Those portugese/spanish they represent the creme de la creme of eu, You know, bad Zoltan? But seriously, their economy is on express train to hell and their fate seems too similar to Greek one. The trick now is to leave Germany or France whoever will be the last part of eu/eurozone with all the accumulated debts on which Germany made a healthy profit.

    • avatar
      Pedro Jorge Lemos

      Yes they made a great profit, stollen money from the poor countries to pay their hidden monstruous debt… portugal at least for 2 times payed the taxes of german debt

    • avatar
      Pedro Jorge Lemos

      But nobody strategicaly talks about the debt of that countries…. seems they dont have …. but are hundreds of trillions…

  15. avatar
    Máté János

    Have you ever heard of democracy or Darth Soros had a private word with you, too :-( ?

    • avatar
      Máté János

      Péter Sebők A fittng name for you, indeed :-( …

  16. avatar
    Maia Alexandrova

    It is like a long and difficult labour, but what will be born in the end? And will it be alive? The people started the process and the people should finish it by deciding in a referendum if they like the final deal or not, or if they want no deal, or no Brexit. This will be most democratic. Otherwise, it can be stopped – the EU parliament already voted to make that possibility available in case UK changes its mind.

  17. avatar
    Adrian

    REAL question is :
    SHOULD Brexit be stopped?

    I mean this is a dream come true. The racist trash can of Europe, England just voted to KILL ITSELF economically, “donate” its financial center to France or Germany AND get out so they can’t stop federalization and more cohesion moves.

    WHY..WHY would we want them to stop Brexit !?!?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Adrian
      Better a poor freeman than a rich slave!

    • avatar
      Adrian

      “You will miss UK money!”

      Oh here we go…you’re gonna miss X

      You lot are like a bad girlfriend who we already thrown the clothes in the street after you left us and now you’re not leaving the apartment.
      Instead you’re “you’re gonna miss the sex”.

      NO WE WON’T.

      Go ! Just go ! There’s the door.
      The EU has no need for your smugness and arrogance. Go be Trump’s lapdogs like you always enjoy.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Adrian
      Writing as a person of colour in the UK – there are very few countries in the EU that are as race-friendly as the UK.

      The Club Med countries and the ex-Warsaw-pact countries are very fearful paces for UK people of colour to visit.

      BTW, the EBRD is not like a normal bank – very few jobs and it does as it is told by the EU.

      Incidentally, watch out for more EU projects requiring France-specific funding in the future!

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Nope, in europe we have something erdogan and his minions dont have a clue about. Its called D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y. Meaning the politicians are slaves of people not the other way round.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Quite the contrary. We will influence brits to leave asap. You will be left with Your non-economy and noone willing and able to pay Your subsidies and welfare. Its what eu asked for when drunken juncker told brits basically to f off after they said they want to leave.

    • avatar
      Mitsos Daniel

      Why don’t you bother yourself with your own country ?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Jan Kowalski
      You will miss UK money!

    • avatar
      Adrian

      I know right?
      They’re making this big fuss and spamming ” oh but you gonna miss our moneyzz herp derp!”

      No we won’t. Please just F off already, jesus christ !

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Ok so you wont miss the money…….. therefore can you please forward your sentiments to Mr Barnier and tell him to stop whining on about the Billions he is trying to extort from us

  18. avatar
    Georgius Portugalus

    Of course it can if is a political decision and people goes for a new referendum. Personally I hope not we don’t want more blackmail from the English special the Tories

  19. avatar
    Carl Glover

    No it cannot. We the British people are very happy to be leaving the parasitic, EU(SSR) dictatorship, it was a democratically achieved decision, not that anyone in the EU(SSR) would know about democracy, and the best news of all is all those hundreds of billions of pounds the British taxpayers handover each year, Britain being the single biggest contributor, will stop, and all those non-contributing, receiving member states will either starve or have to join the real world and work for their money.

    • avatar
      Francisco Caleira

      I hope you starve in Alicante lol. Such an idiotic point of view. You should have stopped in the “No it cannot”. All the rest you wrote is just bullshit. Meanwhile return NI the Ireland if you have the balls.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Here in poland and generally in eastern europe we liked Your money and we are unlike parasites from south but we can get it back with our hard work and through trade agreements.

    • avatar
      Satsuma Angel

      Yes, democratically with the help of Russia. :D

    • avatar
      Carl Glover

      Russia is more democratic than the EU(SSR), at least the president was democratically elected, along with his government.

    • avatar
      Péter Sebők

      Said by someone who is enjoying his rights given by EU. Carl Glover you are a troll or idiot

    • avatar
      Carl Glover

      Obviously more intelligent and more informed than yourselves, do you actually know what the EU(SSR) actually is, who set it up and why..? No I thought not, but no doubt you’re from one of the non-contributing parasitic member states, communist, liberal lefties whom like their relative countries have served to accomplish nothing but still enjoy all that British taxpayers cash rolling in. Let’s see how long it lasts when all those hundreds of billions of pounds stop. 😂😂.

    • avatar
      Mitsos Daniel

      Oh man. Why do old people have always the same impractical and backwards views regarding Europe ?

    • avatar
      randomguy2017

      Look the UKIP movement had some good points
      and a lot of what Farage says was true.

      But I think both UK and EU will be fine. No need to exagerate about “starving”.
      EU has to improve relations with Eastern Europe (yes all of it: Poland, Hungary, even Ukraine, and Russia).

      Atm the EU is all over the place with immigration,
      left and right wing battles. It was Churchill who said the Pan Europa / EU project was too “Christian”. Now EU is too little Christian.

    • avatar
      Nicholas James Holdup

      Young people understand Europe too retard. Get your head out of your uneducated arse.

    • avatar
      Dee O'brien

      Young people are bought off easy with the EU trinkets of no roaming charges,the older generations are smarter and have seen the results of these supra national entities like the USSR,not to mention how undemocratic it is.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Jan Kowalski
      From where I sit, Club Med countries plus ex-Warsaw-pact countries are BOTH parasites.

      What’s worse democracy is a stranger to both groups!

    • avatar
      Adrian

      “Russia is more democratic than the EU(SSR), at least the president was democratically elected, along with his government.”

      *FACEPALM !!!*

  20. avatar
    Mindaugas Valentukevicius

    No, not legally. Quite for the same reason as there can’t be another Scottish independence referendum for some time. This is dictated by the constitution of the United Kingdom. Quite similarly to how it is unconstitutional for Catalonians to separate from Spain. Besides – there is a power balance issue – there are three relevant countries in the EU: Germany, France and the UK. They are likely to have different views due to the composition of their politics and economies. As a consequence of that, they would find it difficult to agree on things which makes the EU inefficient at making decisions – since sizable portions of the parliament may find it difficult to agree. This is especially true because of differing definitions between countries of things even as simple as their position on the political spectrum. It forces them to resort to package deals – mediocre arrangements that are not best suited for the needs of each participant of the negotiating process. In reality this is true for pretty much any members of the EU, depending on how you want to cut it – East vs West, North vs South. Vyshegrad against the world :D So not only is it not legal for the UK to revoke it’s decision, the act of revoking itself is not desirable.

    • avatar
      Nicholas Winters

      The uk does not have a writing constitution.so all your talk is nonsense.

    • avatar
      Mindaugas Valentukevicius

      It seems you also lack a bit of a “writing construction”. Don’t forget to correct “writing” into written as well ;). And once you sorted out your writing issues, take a gander at your reading ones – almost half of my statement is mutually exclusive from it’s other half, and you have yet to trump that argument, sir.

  21. avatar
    catherine benning

    Can Brexit be stopped?

    I can barely contain my wrath. Reading through this bunch of hysteria is simply gut wrenching. The stupidity is unbelievable from people who are supposed to be the top intellect, simply by coming here and taking an interest in politics. Usually only those with a brain do that.

    First off, the vote was not advisory. See the link our government sent to every household in the land.

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160813202542/https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk#a-once-in-a-generation-decision

    In this leaflet copy you will see quite clearly the people were told specifically that the government would uphold their vote to either stay in the EU or leave the EU.

    Remember this, half the bloody world had a vote on this issue in our lives. Not simply the British people. A vote was given to huge numbers of individuals, not connected in any real way, with the United Kingdom. So, had the vote been only for the British Isles the out or leave vote would have been a landslide. Add to that the millions of immigrant families and their older generation, living in the UK, who had a vested interest in remaining inside the EU and you will denote almost all ‘British’ voted for Leave.

    The fix was already in but that fix was underestimated, even though they knew we wanted out, so, even giving half the world a vote, they came off on the wrong foot. It had not been rigged insurmountably. Which is why they were all at sea over the result. They couldn’t get their heads round it.

    The British, as a people, have despised being part of the EU from the onset. When they were not given a vote for a two year period, after our duplicitous government of the day, took us in. That is what was illegal. The referendum should have taken place prior to joining. It wasn’t give.

    Now, here is another aspect of the twisted story we have as a country and as a nation. Because of this fraud by our then government taking us into Europe without a legal vote or referendum, which was required by law, we never were in the EU.

    So how about these onions, as we were never part of the EU, because of the illegality, Treaties signed were unlawful.

    Read all about it.

    The main Article in reference to this ‘Vienna Convention’ is number ’54’ on the Law of Treaties A69. It directs that Britain could simply repeal the European Communities Act of 1972 and replace it with UK Law.

    Also search Article 62 of the Vienna convention on the Law of Treaties terminating over sign up of the Lisbon Treaty on the grounds of fundamental change of circumstances. Namely, the British people have ‘withdrawn their consent’ to be bound by The Lisbon Treaty. No Lisbon Treaty sign up = not a member of the EU. Formal notification is all that is necessary.

    Have a rummage through these nice little information packs. It could save a lot of time and effort.

    http://www.mpil.de/files/pdf3/beitr2452.pdf

    There is more food for thought here.

    http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-begins-overview-of-legal-issues.html

    It is said ‘change of circumstance’ alters obligations under ‘good faith’ expectation.

    https://englandcalling.wordpress.com/2017/03/29/the-vienna-convention-on-the-law-of-treaties-gives-the-uik-the-right-to-leave-the-eu-immediately/

  22. avatar
    ironworker

    “Hope is the last thing to be lost”

    • avatar
      Francisco Caleira

      World would be better if that island would be moved near to the USA.

    • avatar
      Jan Kowalski

      Dont swallow the eu propaganda that after the eu only demise awaits uk. Nothing is further from truth than this lie. Extortionists work in pretty similar way. Never ever give in to extortionists.

    • avatar
      Ana Spínola

      Jan Kowalski I thank your for your concern but you know nothing about me to presume that I’m a naive and ignorant European citizen that needs your advice. Just the opposite! I’m an active citizen at national and European levels for a long, long time, and I’m a well-informed person from reliable sources not from fake news disseminated by sources not submitted to public scrutiny.

    • avatar
      John Bennett

      Well done Ana, normally it’s only idiots making comments on these subjects

    • avatar
      João Machado

      that includes yourself… no John?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Ana Spínola
      You are not that well informed!

      Brexit relates to more than 1 country, not just England!

    • avatar
      Mi Gu

      Because after the lies of the pro Brexit came out, population is regretting it; no one has told that Europe will force UK to remain, but if they make a new referendum today, they will chose to stay… They are the only ones that can stop it! A democracy based on lies, isn’t a democracy…

    • avatar
      João Machado

      Mi Gu They should vote until they get the right result right? Very EU like indeed. We’ve seen it before. Several times.

    • avatar
      Dee O'brien

      Mi gu during the Lisbon treaty re-vote here in Ireland we were told to “vote yes for jobs!” Those jobs never appeared,do we get a re-vote again?!?

    • avatar
      João Machado

      Dee, isn’t it interesting that whenever something doesn’t go the EU way there’s a re-vote? It’s calling the voters plain stupid. Mindless children. You can vote ok? Oh wait, wrong result, vote again please. This time do it right… EU at its best. The faster it’s over the faster we will all be safer.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Mi Gu
      The Bremainiac camp lied too BTW.
      So did the UK government.
      So did the EU.
      So did Euronews.
      So did the BBC.

      What is your point?

    • avatar
      Satsuma Angel

      Yeah, the ones over 65. The young ones have to live with it.

    • avatar
      João Machado

      Satsuma Angel So should referendums not be allowed for 65+ years old? Or maybe there should be two referendums, one for 65 plus and one for enlightened adults and young adults. I wonder…
      If it’s a one person one vote system, does it matters if the majority shares some demographic factor? The losing side can’t demand anything based on the fact that they happen to be younger than most people that voted out. It’s a friggin vote, can’t you understand the premise? The EU has obviously shown us that votes can be changed. Just make them vote over and over again until they get the right one. EU democracy. The UK should be glad it will be out of that ingenious form of democracy.

    • avatar
      João Machado

      Satsuma Angel So should referendums not be allowed for 65+ years old? Or maybe there should be two referendums, one for 65 plus and one for enlightened adults and young adults. I wonder…
      If it’s a one person one vote system, does it matters if the majority shares some demographic characterist? The losing side can’t demand anything based on the fact that they happen to be younger than most people that voted out. It’s a friggin vote, can’t you understand the premise? The EU has obviously shown us that votes can be changed. Just make them vote over and over again until they get the right one. EU democracy. The UK should be glad it will be out of that ingenious form of democracy.

    • avatar
      Dee O'brien

      Joao so true,we live in strange times with this new dubious EU democracy

    • avatar
      Paulo Guerreiro

      if they are old enough to pay taxes…. I’m sure they are old enough to vote. Play fair.

  23. avatar
    Maarten Dominicus Schroders

    Honestly, I’d like this whole shitstorm to end up as a prime example on why referenda on complex issues fueled by short sighted and factually wrong populist narratives are, in fact, dangerous.

    • avatar
      Peter Smith

      Was that suppose to make you sound smart?

    • avatar
      Maarten Dominicus Schroders

      Nope, just vocalising an opinion. Populism and short sightedness are destroying the western world, and it gets cheered on. Is it that wierd that some people lose their patience at some point?

    • avatar
      Maarten Rinsema

      O o, another Dutchman who got bitterly dissapointed when the formerly so cherished referendum turned out in a vote against the trade deal with Ukraine…

    • avatar
      Maarten Dominicus Schroders

      I always hated this kind of referendum. One emotional headline can sway a lot of voters, even if it is actually irrelevant or bogus. And actual politics requires taking into account many factors the vast majority of people are blissfully ignorant off.

    • avatar
      Jeremy Portier

      Maarten Dominicus Schroders For a huge part populism, in its broadest sense, and ‘narrow mindedness’/ignorance formed the western world in the first place. It is not weird at all that some people like you lose their patience at this point, but it is quite astounding that it took you so long.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Peter, it actually has made him sound smart and you speechless and bitter over it…

    • avatar
      Paul X

      ……actually this “shitstorm” has been fueled by having to put up with a profligate, unaccountable, ideologically naive, politically self-motivated bureaucracy for over 40 years without being given a chance to voice an opinion about it…..there was nothing short sighted about it, most people had made their mind up how to vote long before the campaigning that occurred in the couple of months leading up to the referendum

  24. avatar
    Michael Šimková

    You’re taking too long, and in Europe that’s saying something. :p We already have a new crisis to keep us entertained. By the time Brexit actually comes around I suspect we’ll already be well into our next one, too. Good luck, no hard feelings.

  25. avatar
    Alejandro González

    Obviously not, UK must know what is the meaning of being out of Europe. UK has been the less collaborative country during the development of the EU. Now, they will be the example of what happen when you try to impose unilaterally your politics to the rest of the continent. Maybe, in ten or twenty years, after they present their candidature to enter newly in the Union they will and can come back with a more positive attitude towards the rest of the Estates, and that will be the best for the Union.

    • avatar
      Rémi Martin

      Eu won’t no more exist in 10 years!

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Alejandro González
      If the UK leaves the EU we will NEVER rejoin. The UK values democracy more than the EU and indeed especially more than corrupt Club Med countries.

  26. avatar
    Gábor Schulteisz

    Hiszek a demokráciában, tehát ne írjuk felül az GB emberek döntését. Lehetünk jó barátok, jó partnerek akkor is, ha nem vagyunk összekötve. :-)

  27. avatar
    Bertil Huger

    They voted out. They should go out. Any attempt to vote again delegitises the meaning of Democracy.

    • avatar
      Steve Anderson

      I disagree. Yes they voted out, however I sincerely doubt a lot of people properly understood what they were voting for because no one could know what they were voting for. Don’t get me wrong, it is a citizen’s responsibility to educate themselves about their democratic choice, however where the people have been misled, which they clearly were in this instance I believe there are grounds to reconsider. Similarly, where the situation changes, which it is constantly, there are grounds for reconsideration. One is not bound to stick to a bad decision simply because it is taken. One can always revisit things and take a different course.

    • avatar
      Adam Papp

      “Let’s vote until my opinion wins.”
      Genius.

    • avatar
      Cosmin Sarlau

      Actually, you can make a referendum about accepting the deal (if that happens) or not getting out.
      It’s not like the campaign promises were true, so one can say people were mislead.

      But why? UK will rejoin EU. Until then it can be used as an example of what democracy and manipulation do to nations.

    • avatar
      Neil Clarke

      The UK voted to LEAVE, to suggest they did not know what they were doing is an insult. Democracy is one vote with the results respected. Sadly the EU are doing their best to punish the UK for daring to make this decision, encouraged by a group of anti democratic people who will do anything to cause a bad Brexit just so they can say “told you so” I feel no animosity to my European friends, I just ask them to accept our decision. In the future you will be grateful, unless you try to damage the UK. That would be something you would all regret

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Steve Anderson
      Not a fan of democracy eh!

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Agreed, we were misled in 1975 when they told the UK public what the EEC was all about… 40 years later once the reality has become apparent if they give the public another opportunity to express an opinion do you think they are going to fall for the same lies a second time?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      I agree. The UK was lead to believe that the EU was democratic and accountable. 43 years of lies ultimately lead to Brexit!

  28. avatar
    Pavlos Papathanasiou

    Wishful thoughts of the corrupted Brussels’ elites and their well paid puppets! :-D Like it or not the inhuman and social unfair EU is falling apart! 2018 will shock-shake you even more ;-)

  29. avatar
    Antonio De Simone

    Chinese are already conquering?…
    Yesterday at a conference I heard that they are quite ahead on the 5G… quite ahead means that they could rule…

  30. avatar
    randomguy2017

    Hopefully its not stopped.
    It is good for Britain, it is good for mainland Europe.
    Maybe the Anglo divide and conquer for the last 100 years will be stopped.

    Democracy is democracy. Or only when elites pretend it is?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Randomguy2017
      What does your 3rd sentence mean?

  31. avatar
    Lui Denueve

    Why stop the Brexit? I would like my country to follow the example of the UK.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Oh no, another phantom propaganda account.

  32. avatar
    Kristo Poljakov

    Hi liberals! EU is not liberal. It isn’t even democratic, because people doesn’t really decide anything what comes out of EU institutions. I have enough that even our local gov extremely rarely does referendums, not to mention EU doing ever… I wouldn’t be against EU, if it where truly democratic…

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Hi Kristo, yes it is democratic because it has parliament voted by the people and it is that parliament that takes decisions. Do you have a say in what comes out of your own local government?

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Yes Karolina, it has a parliament but that is not where the real power lies. Brexit is one of the greatest challenges currently facing the EU and who is calling all the shots?…certainly not the “democratically “elected parliament.
      The parliament was allowed to hold a vote on whether enough progress was being made in the negotiations, but the vote was non binding and essentially pointless, that alone should give you an indication of just how much contempt the EU has for democracy

    • avatar
      Karolina

      I was talking about legal facts and not preferential opinions.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      “I was talking about legal facts and not preferential opinions”

      So was I, the EU Parliament has no legal standing over the Brexit negotiations… what has preference got to do with it?

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Paul, the EU Parliament will be voting to approve the deal that may come out of the Brexit negotiations and without its approval the deal cannot stand, so, I’m afraid it has all the legal standing over the affair and it is how a democracy functions.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      As usual Karolina you are deliberately missing the critical point being made. The key word is “negotiations”, once the deal is done it is too late for the parliament to do anything apart from accept or reject, and as with most things the commission dreams up, the parliament will no doubt just rubber stamp it.
      I will say again without fear of being contradicted, the democratically elected part of the EU has no input into Brexit negotiations

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Paul X
      Be careful – Karolina has been known to be economical with the truth.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      And Tarquin has been known to post comments making 0 point to the issue debated!

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Another pointless comment by you, Paul, consisting of assumptions rather than facts. You don’t have facts and you are unable to support your views. The facts are not on your side. If the EU parliament reject the deal, the UK will have no deal. If you are unable to work that out for yourself, please, don’t waste people’s time with your assumptions/predictions etc.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Yes Tarquin, I have noticed that….. In fact your post is the first time I have seen the words “Karolina” and “Truth” in the same sentence

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina “the democratically elected part of the EU has no input into Brexit negotiations” is a clear statement of fact

      Please explain what assumptions I’m making?

      Agreed the EU parliament may reject the deal, and it’s also possible the UK Parliament will have the opportunity to reject the deal, but that isn’t the point of discussion which is there is no democratic input into the Brexit discussions… (FYI a binary accept/reject once negotiations are complete does not count as input)

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Unfortunately, Paul, if you cannot understand how a Parliament that makes or breaks a deal (and has already voted on a resolution as to what deal it will accept) has an influence in the negotiations for that deal, there is nothing that I or this page can do for you. You will need to find a teacher for people with special needs who can explain this to you. I’d be wasting my time to continue this exchange with you…

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      The days of alternative facts [like yours] being passed without comment are over.
      You should try to compose yourself and check your facts before posting – otherwise [as has happened multiply on your part] you will appear odious.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Still no facts from yourself though Tarquin, just insults and attempts at intimidation. Do you have to say anything of any substance to support your views or are you still using this page for psychological treatment?

      I know the answer btw…

    • avatar
      Karolina

      I really think that the page should ban people who come here merely to insult others without contributing absolutely anything to the debate, esp. when there is a pattern and this happens when they have been unable to prove a point. As already debated, something is not fake news simply because you don;t want to accept it and it doesn;t fit the agenda for your propaganda.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      “Insults and intimidation” Karolina?…you mean like calling someone “special needs”?…hypocrisy in all it’s glory

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Paul, I honestly advise you to not get offended but seek professional help.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      So Karolina, are you suggesting that you complaining about somebodies insults whilst you yourself are being insulting is not hypocrisy? ……I advise you to seek someone with a dictionary

    • avatar
      Karolina

      The above exchange covers me completely and is evidence for my conclusion. Have learning difficulties is a genuine medical condition that many people suffer from.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      * to have

  33. avatar
    Karolina

    It should never have happened anyway. Most people don’t want it. Plus you can’t be changing the nature of a democratic state, removing rights from people on the back of swaying public opinion. You need to have 2/3 of society and that never happened in the UK. UK democracy needs to be strengthened and secured from temporal extremist governments.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      So what rights are going to be removed..Human rights?…Britain was instrumental in drafting the charter of human rights, it is totally illogical to suggest that when the UK leaves the EU we will suddenly ignore legislation that we created
      Workers rights? I doubt these will be torn up either, but at the end of the day the UK is fully entitled to ignore some of the more Socialist inspired legislation, after all, if the UK public really wanted it we would have elected a Labor government

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Such as the right to sue the government, Paul, and many others, workers rights, as you said etc. Effectively, the UK will be moving towards a more authoritarian situation with fewer controls over the government and more rights for big business to exploit workers. This is why the Conservative party has campaigned for Brexit and is pushing for it. The Conservative party is defending the rights of big business at the expense of common citizens. On the other hand, the EU’s main goal is to bring an even living standard to people across its territory. Indeed, yourself have defended Conservative policies on this debate by expressing yourself against Polish, Romanian etc workers who migrate to the UK in an attempt to improve their living conditions, you have expressed yourself against maternity leave and also the cap on hours per week worked, if I am not mistaken. These are core EU policies meant to safeguard living standards and provide a work-life balance.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      As to your post above, it is based on assumptions, as are most of your posts. There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better). The UK exactly is in a situation at the moment where one particular political party is changing the nature of the state and society on the back of the sway of a manipulated public opinion, manipulated by the same Party’s members. It is the worst situation that a “democracy” can find itself in. It’s how the Nazis started in Germany.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, for your information I have never voted Tory in my life and do not as a rule defend their policies….but I accept the fact that the UK has elected a Tory government and I therefore question why we should have to accept Socialist legislation from the EU when clearly the UK population does not want a Socialist government…please explain how that works in a democracy?

      …and one correction, I have previously (and still do) question the value of Paternity leave not Maternity leave, it is a pointless liberal “equality” policy which benefits no-one

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karolina
      Plucking figures out of thin air again?
      Why not 65.9% or 60% or indeed 52%?

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Paul, I am sorry but we are not debating your political views and indeed we are not interested in whatever you may have voted. The point that I made above was regarding British “democracy” and removal of rights as a result of Brexit. My point stands.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, your point does not stand because so far no rights have been removed and there has been no indication that any will be……… the whole thing is a figment of your overactive imagination

    • avatar
      Karolina

      For people with special needs: The rights will be removed when the UK leaves the EU and EU law stops applying in the UK…

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Apart from the fact that my above comment uses the present continuous tense for removal of rights…

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      Do you happen to have some facts to back up your comment, please?

    • avatar
      Paul X

      “The rights will be removed when the UK leaves the EU and EU law stops applying in the UK…” complete rot to be frank Karolina, there is a bill to transfer all current EU law into UK law with immediate effect of Brexit, so on the first day of UK freedom nothing will change. Once these laws are under UK control the government may choose to amend some but there has been nothing to indicate if and what they may decide to change

      ..and I suggest you stop the special needs insults, many people including myself find it highly offensive…… and to be honest, once you stoop to personal insults of that nature you have clearly lost any creditable argument

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Exactly my point, Paul, thank you very much. There is no commitment on anything and the intention exactly was to leave the EU so that British and no EU law applies. So, the speed at which this happens is beyond the point. However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Tarquin, the facts are common sense and if you do not understand them, which I am sure that you don’t, this is the perfect proof why commoners should not get a referendum on such complicated issues.

      I insist certain individuals on here that come to the page simply to insult and harass others should be banned from the page. You cannot use the benefit of a debating page in order to sabotage a debate.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina….you do not read too good do you?
      “Exactly my point, Paul, thank you very much. There is no commitment on anything”
      I clearly said the exact opposite, there IS A COMMITMENT that on day one after Brexit all EU law will still apply but it will be re-branded as UK law…. see item No.2 here https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/repeal-bill

      Jesus, it’s difficult to know if you are being deliberately obtuse or if it comes naturally?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      “You need to have 2/3 of society…”

      Would you please kindly provide FACTUALLY CORRECT evidence of your assertion?

    • avatar
      Karolina

      There is nothing factual about it, Tarquin. It’s just how it works in other modern democracies. You can do it how you want depending on how much you value democracy. But the UK is of course a monarchy, not 100% democratic.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Paul,

      “As to your post above, it is based on assumptions, as are most of your posts. There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better). The UK exactly is in a situation at the moment where one particular political party is changing the nature of the state and society on the back of the sway of a manipulated public opinion, manipulated by the same Party’s members. It is the worst situation that a “democracy” can find itself in. It’s how the Nazis started in Germany.”

      “So, the speed at which this happens is beyond the point. However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, here is the bill and it’s progress through Parliament, this is not an “assumption” it is a fact (something alien to you I know but please accept it)

      https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/europeanunionwithdrawal.html

      The evidence to back up what I’m saying is contained within this bill though I’m pretty sure you will not bother reading it as you seem to prefer spending all your time on here arguing black is white

    • avatar
      Karolina

      From above for those who need to read it a 3rd time:

      ” There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better).”

      ” However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”

      The intention of this REPEAL Bill exactly is to change current legislation, meaning the EU one will not apply… straight common sense for those of average intelligence.

      Over here on the Continent it really is black and white, Paul. People don;t vote for nebulous promises and fantasy situations without commitment. You understand how the British approach is not working in this debate page and it could never work at the EU either…

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, direct quote from the repeal bill 3(1)
      ” Direct EU legislation, so far as operative immediately before exit day, forms
      part of domestic law on and after exit day”
      i,e. all the EU laws on the day before Brexit will be incorporated into UK domestic law the day after…..it couldn’t be any simpler…. and considering this is a bill that is going through the houses at the moment i suggets that is a perfectly clear commitmemt from the government wouldn’t you?.

      Repeating a lie 3 times will not make it the truth

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Calling sth a lie will not make it any less truthful :-)

      Again the quote from above is the perfect response.

      ” There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better).”

      ” However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”

      Unless you have something new to respond, which is not already covered in my previous comments, no need to post further (which someone of average intelligence would have worked out by now).

      Real men take defeat and move on with dignity. Unless there is a learning difficulty…

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, I’m stating a fact and supporting it with hard evidence, you are continually repeating the same verbage over an over.
      Nobody yet knows the UK political landscape post Brexit, there may even be a general election, a Labor government and more workers rights, who knows? certainly not you so stop pretending your assumptions are in any way the truth
      (A basic rule of debating, if you want to claim “victory” then you need to at least be giving a factually proven argument, not some fantasy story)

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Same goes to you, Paul. You live in a fantasy world. My comment is based on common sense and what has been debated as part of the Brexit discourse.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Oh, and by the way, since you didn’t get it the 3-4 other times posted:

      ” However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”

      Still waiting for you to provide evidence that a citizen will be able to sue the UK government after it leaves the EU and that all EU law will be preserved permanently but it doesn’t look like it’s coming,

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina, your starting to sound like a stuck record banging on about this “sue the government”, why don’t you actually explain what is so great about it and more importantly, give some examples of exactly how the public have gained a benefit from it?

    • avatar
      Paul X

      ..and I never said EU laws will be permanently enshrined in UK law , my exact words were (quote)
      “there is a bill to transfer all current EU law into UK law with immediate effect of Brexit, so on the first day of UK freedom nothing will change. Once these laws are under UK control the government may choose to amend some but there has been nothing to indicate if and what they may decide to change”

      I know it’s difficult for you but please stick to the facts and stop making things up…

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      “There is nothing factual about it…”

      Ergo Karoliar is often economical with the truth.

      I rest my case!

    • avatar
      Karolina

      In other words, you are unable to contest my original comment… Thanks very much for coming to this conclusion and what was the point in all these exchanges if you were unable to contradict my comment in the end?

      To try and make it less obvious how bad Brexit is and how the UK is actually moving towards fewer rights for citizens…

      Do everyone a favour Paul, including the admins of this page that have to check comments, and unless you have something of some substance to say (excluding tantrums and bickering) just refrain from posting. I will definitely be ignoring irrelevant and pointless comments.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Karolina
      Feel free to ignore “irrelevant and pointless comments” but my direct question to you about the “sue the government” legislation has become very relevent (by you continually referring to it ) so can you please provide an answer?

  34. avatar
    catherine benning

    Can Brexit be stopped?

    No it can’t and here, finally, we are told how this bent organisation should be put down, the way you do an old dog.

    Now they can move on International Law, Vienna Convention.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public

    How many other States were dragged in on lies? And don’t forget to note the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan you refuse to take not of. Well here it is. Look into your archives.

  35. avatar
    Franck Legon

    “Can democracy be raped without backslash from the people?” , in other words.

  36. avatar
    randomguy2017

    @Marko Martinović

    Do not blame single states for this mess.
    It is part of an old Pan Europa and now EU idealogy
    to bring in masses of immigrants.

    The wars in the Middle East often caused by US nonsense
    like Libya, Syria (proxy), Iraq, Afghanistan increase the immigration,
    most of them come to Europe.

    Even other countries around the Africa region are coming
    because of elites and ngos which want those immigrants for cheap labour
    and to change the face of Europe from those imaginery “racists” in Europe.

    This all started after WW2, UK and France,
    then Germany and Sweden, and now almost all of countries are accepting them.

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      @@Marko Martinović

      When the UK joined the EU in the sixties, London and our cities has a feel of a normal, safe environment, with a culture that was relatively mild. Low murder rate, not fear of rape or acid attacks. See links.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXDeftNL5wc

      And before being part of any European integration and unsustainable Globalisation policy. It looked and felt like this.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdfXjmfhc6s

      However, after being part of the EEC and EU in which we were fraudulently enrolled by Ted Heath and his cronies, and under their enforced migrant policy, London today.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_xx9b2sjU4

      You will see it has changed beyond recognition. Not culturally British, not an environment we recognise any longer, and in fear because we are unsafe. Murder is rife, rape occurs at an alarming rate and acid attacks an almost daily occurrence.The outcome is, white flight from our British cities, this is EU policy and enforced migration under European law.

    • avatar
      Adrian

      What utter poop !
      “Not culturally British, not an environment we recognise any longer, and in fear because we are unsafe”

      Who is “we” ?
      Who the fuck is this “WE” ?

      You don’t speak for everyone. You and your trio of deranged lunatics who “no longer see the culture as british waaaahhhh” need to get with the times.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      @Adrian

      Actually the “we” applies all across Europe to anyone who has felt threatened or intimidated by groups of immigrants invited into their country by the liberal idiots that run the EU… and anyone who says this situation does not exist is naive beyond belief …”if getting with the times” means burying your head in the sand and calling people “deranged lunatics” just because they have real and justified concerns then you and all the other keyboard warriors need to get out of your bedrooms and go visit certain areas Sweden, France or Germany

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Adrian
      I am particularly frightened of the numerous Romanian pickpockets, professional-beggars and worse that abound London and indeed further afield in the UK!

    • avatar
      Karolina

      What about the numerous Nigerian scammers, Tarquin, are you worried about them. I reckon they steal larger amounts than the Romanians.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      Yes – I too am wary of Nigerian scammers.
      BTW, have you got any evidence to support your assertion?

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Nigerian scammers disappear with a click of the delete button… a pity it wasn’t so simple on the streets of some of our cities

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Not making an assertion. I hope you understand what “I reckon” means. Have you got any evidence about your assertions?

    • avatar
      Karolina

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10053846/One-in-five-murder-and-rape-suspects-are-foreign-nationals-figures-show.html

      “In London immigrant accounted for more than a third of the 210 rape suspects who were charged.
      Twenty four were from Jamaica, 14 from Nigeria, 13 from Poland and ten from Portugal.
      Out of 180 suspects charged with murder in the capital, 41 were foreign – including seven from Jamaica and five each from Turkey, Poland and Sri Lanka.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/28/vote-leave-releases-list-of-serious-crimes-by-eu-citizens-in-britain

      https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672735/half-of-British-rape-suspects-are-foreign

      “Immigrants were alleged to have been responsible for 17 per cent of these major crimes….Murder suspects included five from Poland, five from Sri Lanka and three each from Albania and Italy….Nineteen Jamaicans, 13 Nigerians, 11 Portuguese and 10 Romanian and 10 Somalians stood accused of rape.”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-migration-six-myths-about-immigration-debunked-as-latest-figures-show-fall-in-non-eu-arrivals-a6895341.html

      “A report by LSE in 2013 found that crime actually fell significantly in areas that had experienced mass immigration from eastern Europe, with rates of burglary, vandalism and car theft down since 2004.”

      “The research found that offending rates among Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian communities were in line with the general population.”

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Doesn’t look like we’ll be hearing back from Tarquin on this one either…. He’s going to pretend he didn’t see it and then say that only Romanians or whoever is putting up the pick pocketing rate…when his compatriots are even higher on the rape and murder table…

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      LOL! You must be really annoyed to bother posting so late in the day.
      Here are my ripostes:

      Your TELEGRAPH link ==> Fewer EU foreigners means less UK-based crime – thank you for supporting my PoV.

      Toilet paper often bears greater verisimilitude than the ‘GAURNIAD’.

      Your Youtube video was hilarious.

      Your DAILY EXPRESS link ==> Fewer EU foreigners means less UK-based crime – thank you for supporting my PoV.

      Your INDEPENDENT link was soooo funny. The article text confirms that EU foreigner immigration to the UK was rising.

      The LSE is a pro-EU, EU-funded ‘EUganda merchant’, its gravitas has been greatly denuded. Even so ‘in-line’ is a PC attempt at narrowing the gap between UK criminality and EU-foreigner criminality.

      Karoliar – you have been tested, bested and jested.

      Pray tell, continue – you are a source of great merriment to me! :)

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Ah, once again, Tarquin, you carefully avoid the point of the above exchange and try to twist it into something else. I take it, you have got the point of your own compatriots being responsible of far more serious crime and that, under your own logic and the policy that you promote, people from Nigeria should be sent back there, that would have included your own parents and you would not be living in the UK either. Not that I agree with such an approach, just following your own hate-filled “logic” and posts on here.

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Clearly, this is not a comfortable conclusion that comes out from the statistics above. Not for Nigerians at least.

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      @ Adrian

      Okay, first off, where do you come from and reside? No need to keep it a secret is there? And as far as I am able to see and read, you speak for no one.

      Second, the UK is quite definitely ‘not’ culturally British in vast areas of the country. Second, the, mainly rural areas that have some resemblance to the country we knew and love is being forced into changes it does not want or need. To the point where the British feel disenfranchised. They live in fear of speaking out against the crime committed against them, namely, enforced and strange robbery of the taxes to support and maintain wealthy Globalists, countries that do not need our aid, mass immigration from areas of the globe that are not ready to assimilate into a culture that is completely opposed to their way of life and expectation. This is creating an alienation for all involved, not simply those of the host culture. And it is creating a separation of citizen and State. People are turning on each other in ways not seen in the UK previously. And many believe this is a deliberate act by the EU and others outside our borders of divide and rule.

      Only idiots call planned genocide of a people poop. The we is the majority who voted to get out of Europe. It is seen as the first step to saving our democracy. And as Eastern Europeans who benefit greatly from our welfare system, have no concept of what democracy is. As do the majority entering our country, legally or illegally, from areas on the planet where democracy has never been [art of their lives. They have no understanding of it.

      And as a side bar, who the F are you? Certainly not one of the people of the UK who has not been indoctrinated by our ineffective and inefficient school system. You show signs of the programmed robot filled with wiring from the maddened PC brigade that grows bigger by the day.

      The answer has to be a large slice of land available, in island form, similar to the land given to Israel, for all the disenchanted people of the UK to escape to a society they can, once again, feel at home in. It could be just what we have already known as the UK. That way, like Switzerland, we can flourish, New World Order, free.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucguJvuKmQg

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMT38PSCHjY

  37. avatar
    Venko Drumchiyski

    I think UK sitizen wasn’t inform good, for wath will happen and for all process about Brexit and after Brexit. So they took uninformed decision

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Venko Drumchiyski
      The UK populace was DELIBERATELY NOT INFORMED about the long term path of joining the EEC then the EU and finally REICH IV!

  38. avatar
    catherine benning

    Can Brexit be stopped?

    It appears, from what I have read in the past and again today, that the ‘discussion’ over our Brexit negotiations has already come to a deal. According to the Telegraph in September 2017

    XXX The Telegraph writes:

    Theresa May made a pledge to ‘honour commitments’ in her Florence speech Credit: Maurizio Degl’Innocenti/Reuters

    Peter Foster, Europe Editor, Brussels

    27 September 2017 • 9:50am

    Theresa May “took dictation” from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.

    The Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to “honour commitments” made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.

    Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.

    The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.

    A senior EU official said: “The Commission pretty much dictated the section on the financial settlement.”

    XXXX End of Telegraph piece.for this post XXXX

    Now how and why would this promise be part of such negotiations that supposedly have yet to be reached? All sounds as if it is pre-prepared and set out for these so called leaders to ‘perform.’

    One would have thought a better approach would be to take this reasoned argument as their guideline.

    ‘When the trading bloc (EU) can produce the contractual clause (agreed by the UK prior to June 2016) that specifies the sum, and why, a departing state should pay the bloc, then it will be looked at. Until such time as that takes place, the UK’s obligation to the bloc is about the £00.00 mark. The bloc has now resorted to begging and extortion but is still continuing in their attempts to bully and demean Britain. It is now time to withdraw from these talks as time after time the bloc has proved itself to be both unable and unwilling to negotiate. Negotiating is an art that their functionaries think is strident demanding to get what they want, I wonder what vassal state gave them that idea? If, after March 29 2019 the bloc feels that it may want to discuss some sort of trading arrangements with an independent, self governing, United Kingdom, then I am sure they may be listened to. They may well bear in mind that the UK could demand a “golden handshake” of around £80 Billion from the bloc before any negotiations are entered into.’

    This would appear to be a more mature negotiating platform from which to bring our present negotiations to an immediate halt.

  39. avatar
    Tarquin Farquhar

    @Karoliar
    I live in a democracy. The ability to speak or comment freely is a democratic freedom that even the EU supports – although it does try to hide or obfuscate or diffuse ideas/concepts/mindsets that are contrary to EUGANDA!

    It is clear that ‘freedom of speech’ is a concept that you do not understand, do not appreciate and do not care for.

    I am entitled to speak freely – I do and I will.

    When it comes to “Pedler’s of fakery” [like YOU – prone to hyperbole and or inexactitude] I will challenge you and correct you if you continue your campaign of disingenuity!

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Loud words but no facts/actions… Ignorance and self-delusion are your guiding principles. They are actually so obvious that I am starting to think that you are also being paid to post this nonsense.

      I appreciate a genuine debate with sophisticated comments. But I haven’t got time for this kind of nonsense. Obviously, your inability to support your claims with facts is making you angry and is making you fire pointless posts like this one. Commiserations. You will just have to learn to live with the knowledge that you support certain views because of how they make you feel rather than because there is any substance in them. Get over it.

  40. avatar
    Tarquin Farquhar

    @Karoliar
    52% of the UK voted for Brexit – thus your assertion is wrong!
    Who/what mandates that you need a 2/3 majority of society…?
    UK democracy is superior to that of the EU (look at TI for proof) and indeed it is superior to most nations in the world.

    Why do you keep peddling fake news?

    Remember Karolina: You have been tested, bested and jested!

    • avatar
      Karolina

      Many others before had feelings of superiority over other nations and they killed millions because of it. You have exactly now proven that Brextards are the new Nazis.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karoliar
      Might I refer you to Godwin’s law! LOL!

  41. avatar
    Tarquin Farquhar

    @Marcin Cieślikowski
    Please refrain from sexualised comments – especially those involving animals. UGGGHHHHHH – disgusting!

    • avatar
      Stephen Pockley

      Not at all the majority voted to leave it’s a few traitorous politicians and a few remainers that are trying to stop us leaving .

  42. avatar
    Mindaugas Valentukevicius

    Yeah, but why would you want to? A country as independent as the UK is leaving the EU means all those corporation funded EU parliamentarians and banksters can more easily pass on laws that benefit the few at the great, long-term expense of the many.

  43. avatar
    Coralee De Fréine

    I hope not, because that will mean there’s absolutely no hope of any of the rest of us being able to escape total domination by our EU overlords.

  44. avatar
    Paul X

    Another good reason for Brexit

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42354864

    So “removing EU citizens found sleeping rough on UK streets is unlawful” and “broke freedom of movement rules”

    A typical exampe of what the liberal EU idiots have forced upon us without consent, The “fundamantal principle” was for freedom of movement of workers, nowhere in the Treaty of Rome does does it mention freedom for dossers and vagrants to beg on another countries streets

  45. avatar
    Ivan Burrows

    No of course not. Now the truth is out about the true goal of the EU why would we stop it ? Your’e all doomed, doomed I say.

    • avatar
      Ivan Burrows

      Vicente Silva Tavares And one day you will solve the problems of the idiotic job destroying Euro, but I doubt it. We are British and have no need of your pointless Brussels empire.

    • avatar
      Joaquim M Pinto

      Lol investmen protection corruption freedom all things that are for sure. Machines in the industry from the 80s. Depending on immigrants for the industry NHS, for sure that article was well paid. Time to wake up knock knock reality is at the door. You guys are great comedians

  46. avatar
    Björn Eric Ingemar Grahn

    Yes it Can in theory but i do not thinking unfortchently that The politicians in GB Will do it useless Skottland Can manege to somehow stop it.

  47. avatar
    Michael

    Blind leading the blind ..

  48. avatar
    Don MacDonell

    All the facts were not properly debated in the first referendum. Now, voters have a much clearer picture of what they would be voting for, so there should be a second referendum. In life, when you make a mistake, you should correct it. All I can say is that if there is no second referendum before Theresa May loses a vote of confidence and calls an election, then Brexiteers should complete there mission by electing Jeremy Corbyn and completely destroying the British economy. That is a good possibility.

  49. avatar
    Anonymous

    No. a referendum is a referendum
    Maybe in the far future UK might apply for membership if the things don’t work as they like. Who knows!!
    At least with UK outside the Union, the rest of the European countries can move to closer ties and cooperation such as European Defence etc which the UK was against and used his veto.

  50. avatar
    Ivan

    @Tomislav We were indeed lied to, in 1973 when we were told the EEC would never become a federal superstate run by and for the benefit of Germany. Anything said on the subject since that point is now irrelevant as we are leaving the pointless EU. Looks like you are going to have to get your free hand outs of other peoples money from someone else, probably not Germany though :)

  51. avatar
    Tomislav

    Conspiracy theories like “everything in the eu, are just benefits for germany” are just a bunch of irrational fears that come from a pointless view that there is something like national purity, in other words, narrow sighted nationalism.

  52. avatar
    Tomislav

    The point of the eu is to have a multinational union where people overcome the idea of, and the urge for, nationalism in order to stimulate and develop cooperation and set an example for other countries. Claiming that there is an accidental empire is just selling a story to people in thirst for “deeper” purpose, who would rather hear someones interpretation than do the research.

  53. avatar
    David

    Hopefully our exit will bring about the end of your poxy eu.

  54. avatar
    Dave

    People had four months to listen to debates about staying in or leaving believe me lies on both sides threats from Obama and other countries that if we left the end of the world would happen it hasn’t only more lies from the remain camp and then people made their choice so let us get on with it.

  55. avatar
    Ivan

    Why the hell would we stop it ? We are leaving the antidemocratic EU and the sooner pro EU fanatics accept this basic fact the sooner we can move forward as neighbours. But if you attempt to interfere in or deny us our democratic right you will have us as an enemy, which is never a good place to be.

    • avatar
      Demetris

      Jesus how old are you again

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Demetris Daniel Without doubt the stupidest question I have been asked today but thanks anyway 8|

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      It should be stopped in a way otherwise UK will be financially destroyed. In the long term, you will see your empty universities and you will regret for your decision.

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      I don’t know in what biased newspaper-as the one which you sent-you have read that EU has made Greece a strong country. Unemployment, crisis and memoranda still torment Greeks, the truth is. Someone else is the delusional comrade.

      I didn’t understand the “we are British and will be just fine”. Is this a kind of naïve, nationalistic attitude which acts as protection from the dangers and risks related to Brexit?

      UK’s universities are your tremendous asset. If the tuition fees skyrocket in 1-2 years, the demand will fall. Simple economics.

      https://www.google.gr/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/05/uk-universities-rise-in-applications-eu-students

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Miltiadis I meant if we stay in the pointless EU we will end up the same as Greece, a complete disaster..

      If you hate Nationalism so much why are you trying to force your fake European Nationalism onto 500 million people ?

      When we are no longer tied to the EU we can trade with who we want and not be wasting billions on your failed union, now that’s basic economics comrade & it terrifies Brussels.

      You could not be more wrong about our universities, people enrol because they are good universities, not because they are cheap or in the antidemocratic EU.

      https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/feb/05/uk-universities-rise-in-applications-eu-students

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      European Nationalism? Pointless EU? The EU gives you the opportunity to trade your products more easily and in more competitive prices within and outside EU borders.

      You couldn’t be more wrong about your universities. EU citizens enroll in your universities because they are inexpensive. What a naïve, nationalist person would say that people will be willing to pay more than 20,000£ per year to study in Leeds or Reading, since Dutch, German, French and Italian universities cost less than 1000€? That’s simple economics. Even professors in your universities want to slow down the Brexit process, think of the reason.

      The law of demand says that the higher the price, the fewer consumers would be willing and able to buy a specific good or service. So good UK universities and UK citizens are not aware of the steepness of the D curve in a simple Price-Quantity graph?

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      What you still cannot understand is that I am not a pro EU fanatic. Supporters are not fanatics. EU didn’t actually help Greece to overcome their financial problem. However, we like EU because we are offered with innumerable opportunities (job, studies etc.) Did I change your opinionated, stubborn stereotypical thinking that whoever disagrees with Brexit is EU fanatic?

      Obviously 5 out of 130 universities of yours are in the top 100 world unis, which will continue to be full of international students. What about the rest 125? Will they continue to be popular unless their tuition fees are severely decreased?

      What EU supporters ruminate is a union between countries located in this continent. Our world makes progress with international cooperation, communication and help, which means that room for nationalistic, outdated practices does not exist.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Miltiadis Why would I care what you are or what you support but anyone who wants to destroy 27 Nation States and create a fake Nation called the EU is a fanatic. Are you seriously say EU policies didn’t destroy Greece ? If so then I definitely think you are a fanatic 8|

      Nazism, Fascism, Communism and now Euroepanism, only the colour of the flag changes.

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      You refer to me as a EU fanatic so you either do care or you can’t control your stereotypical thinking.

      EU is not a nation. It’s a union.

      EU policies did not help Greece, indeed, but I wouldn’t say that they destroyed Greece. Greece made mistakes, too, but some EU countries took advantage of it. This doesn’t mean that we should leave EU. We should change it.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Miltiadis The goal of the EEC via the EU is to be the Nation of the United states of Europe, what do you think ‘Ever closer Union’ actually means ?

      One people, One Nation, One Leader ! Does it sound familiar ?

      I can only go on what you say comrade & you support the very institutions that have destroyed millions of lives across the EU and the whole Nations of Greece & Italy so by definition you are a fanatic comrade. 8|

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      You probably know me better than I do. Although you don’t care about what I support or believe. Sounds logical

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Miltiadis What ? lol To be honest I could type 40 random letters and it would be more logical than that comment comrade.

    • avatar
      João

      Ivan Burrowst, the fear factory is working hard these days. As I see it, Brexit constant harassment from the media (and of course the fluffy facebook leftists) only show me how fearful the EU political class is. They know that everyone else now realized it is possible to leave this Union. And when most countries now have quite developed movements and political parties that represent the people that are unhappy with the EU, which is undeniably a growing number, their fear is fought with the media fear machine, as usual. I’m not a fanatic of either side, if the EU shows me that it can change its ways I’ll be its first supporter. But how can that even be done when its flaws are by design..
      I think the EU will stop to exist in a matter or a decade or two. Or at least it will be reduced to a handful of countries. I just hope that will happen rationally and peacefuly.

  56. avatar
    Stef

    No the people have decided just get on woth it ffs… stop trying to escape consequences

    • avatar
      Péter

      There will be devastating consequences

    • avatar
      Stef

      Yeah welcome to the real world. I’d say that the stalling for a couple of years now has only made things worse..

    • avatar
      Rob

      Péter Sebők you need to stop with project fear – I seem to recall it failed in the UK referendum. The UK is looking to it’s brethren nations of Canada, Australia and NZ for inspiration. They are each non members and major trade hubs on the world stage. The UK will be absolutely fine!

    • avatar
      Violeta

      Just 2% have decided and they might have changed their minds by now.

    • avatar
      Teo K

      I kvo kat si top fan?

    • avatar
      Stef

      Teo Kachakov znachi che mi e po golqm

  57. avatar
    Cãlin

    Believe it or not, it isn’t up to the peoples will, but for certain circles interests, and, because of the way they manipulated masses, it never was. So…

  58. avatar
    Dave

    The uk vote in the historic vote to leave the eu the result should be respected.

  59. avatar
    Nikolaos

    No all the law in EU mast de the same for all the can try’s and the humans .spesial for the Greece.

  60. avatar
    Harry

    Well thats up to constitutional lawyers/judges whatever since this means interpreting laws/treaties

  61. avatar
    Matthew

    Not my affair, it’s the UK’s business what they want to do with their country.

    • avatar
      João

      The most sensible reply I’ve read all day. Unfortunately, the EU political class thinks very differently..

    • avatar
      Matthew

      Yeah. I mean, yes, there ARE potential risks but that’s also true for about any major decision when it comes to national relations with other countries.
      It’s not my place to decide what happens for another country, though, and it shouldn’t be.
      I just hope it’ll turn out all right for all parties involved, and that’s kind of unpredictable right now.

  62. avatar
    Marco Peel

    Democracy isn’t about voting once and forever holding your peace. Circumstances, opinions, needs, desires, etc. may change over time. The British have the right to change their minds. The EU could become something better. Anything can happen. If not, we should probably reinstate Caligula’s horse to its seat in the Senate. In any case, one may wonder why everyone is so quick to respect a “clear” British will lo leave the EU with a narrow 51.89% to 48.11% win, when the overwhelming 61.31% to 38.69% Greek referendum rejecting austerity measures prompted the imposition of harsher conditions. The British have always been right to be sceptical about the EU as it is, but walking away from a problem will never solve it. We are stronger together, better together, and only together do we have even a fighting chance to build a better future for all of us.

  63. avatar
    Michalis

    Instead of this stupid question. Can we say any idea of how can we stop the antidemocratic German influence over the Union?

  64. avatar
    Miltiadis

    It’s not something difficult. See what the Greek PM did in a similar referendum in 2015.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      You mean hand Greece over to Brussels & Berlin ? No thanks.

    • avatar
      Miltiadis

      Ivan Burrows I didn’t expect a different comment without being filled with undiluted nationalism. Don’t forget to give Greece back the Greek Parthenon marbles

    • avatar
      Ivan

      We chose freedom comrade 8|

    • avatar
      José

      Your opinoin. I respect. Well Will Whait to see what happen Next. And we are waiting for scotland the true european from your island. You can keep being part of Emirates Empire.

  65. avatar
    Ivan

    Debating Europe Off topic question I know but I was just curious why you haven’t mentioned the fact that only a ‘European’ Nation can win the world cup ?

  66. avatar
    Stefano

    No, they have to go for from where they belongs. UK isn’t europe.
    I cant wait until they leave.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      We are leaving the pointless EU comrade, Not Europe 8|

  67. avatar
    Bernard

    Probably not. But we should ask why so many citizens want to leave the EU, and not just in the UK.

  68. avatar
    George

    Anyone who tries to stop #Brexit is subverting democracy.
    Are you openly calling for an EU dictatorship now? 🤔

    • avatar
      Galina

      It is ever been

    • avatar
      Diaconu

      Why ? if a new referendum is made ans the results are reversed … ?

    • avatar
      Stephen

      Diaconu Us leavers know the next one would be rigged to stay without doubt. Then massive civil unrest maybe even worse . But TM already said there will be NO 2nd Ref or that BS peoples vote.

    • avatar
      George

      Diaconu how many times will you re-do the referendums? until you get the results *you* want? 🤔
      That’s never going to happen.
      People now want #exits even more.
      You can see it happening all over EU now.

    • avatar
      Charles

      A referendum is non binding. Only an election is. Why is your PM so afraid of calling an election? You call a referendum with a 40% turnout with those well over 60 years of age voting LEAVE democratic? Your country and your fellow brexiteers have taken the UK to the dogs! Stop diving your head into the ground and start realizing that the days when you colonized more than half the world and rule brittania have LONG COME AND GONE!

    • avatar
      Mathilde

      Charles who has fault for the 40% turnout? if the peoples did not show up to vote, then they cannot complain. It is their fault for not voting the first time.
      Stop coddling these ignorant peoples

    • avatar
      Charles

      Mathilde I am not a UK citizen, but I love the UK and its people. An election should be called as going headlong into the vortex will only lead to civil unrest in the UK. And no one in their right mind wants to see that.

    • avatar
      George

      Charles google what “democracy means”, right now you are trying to justify the minority’s will over the majority, who voted for #Brexit.
      And again – all the evidence shows that a new referendum now, will result with much stronger win for #Brexit.
      Next thing you will also suggest that the politicians don’t get elected with 50%+ too? How is that not a call for “dictatorship”?

    • avatar
      Wendy

      Charles – other countries have been forced to vote again and the second vote has been rigged to reverse the result of the first. That may work with other countries but Britain is not like other countries.
      Hopefully we British still have something left in us to show why it was that a tiny island was able to colonize the world and sow the seeds of democracy and justice and why it was that a tiny island stood alone against the Nazis when all their neighbours had capitulated.
      We have voted to be free and if that fails then we will fight to be free. How dare you suggest that the elders of a nation should have no say. Do you think the idiotic brainwashed young are wiser and know better than those who have lived longer?
      If democracy fails in Britain then it will perish everywhere so you had better hope that it passes this test.

  69. avatar
    Cãlin

    If it can be stopped it’s up to the britts will. It’s democratic to take decisions, but also to change your mind (even when you discover you’ve been fooled). But stupidity is never an excuse.

    • avatar
      Stephen

      How have we been fooled?. Most of us have wanted out for 20 odd years

    • avatar
      Manuel

      Yes, it is we the european who were fooled by you.
      You have arrived inside the european club when you were poor and with the economy stagnant, then you grow up and became rich, very rich, the richest, and now you are saying goodbye, but there will not have any good on your bye.

    • avatar
      Cãlin

      Stephen, I don’t doubt that some wanted out for various reasons, yet this isn’t the right place to develop a long discussion, I’ll tell you that you can find all over the internet analysis about what was presented to the population to be the benefits of leaving the EU and what the real deal was in the end. I don’t blame you. In the end it’s your call and your responsibility also, even though I’m sure that this story was ment to serve a narrower group of people. Let’s be honest, the common british citizen had mostly advantages and the UKs economy grew well since joining.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Manuel We were poor because we spent every penny we had saving you from the last bunch of lunatic Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe, this clearly was an error on our part as you are now repeating the mistakes of the past. Happily it is an error we are rectifying by leaving the anti democratic EU.. ‘Europeans’ on the other hand have learn nothing.

    • avatar
      Cãlin

      Ivan, don’t say you were poor when by that time UK had more colonies than any other country. And also don’t say that UK saved Europe by lunatics when the reason of the late intervention in the conflict wasn’t the worry for self determination of the occupied nations, but the realisation of a too long error of an ignored danger. The lunatics didn’t plan to unite, but occupy and I suppose you understand the difference. In the end I feel the need to contradict you and say that europeans did learn an important thing that some don’t like: only united will preserve peace on continent full of territorial disputes and ethnic arrogances and, most importantly, only united will have a stand facing the world powers.

    • avatar
      Wendy

      Europeans have learned nothing. You fools have been invaded again and you can’t even muster a resistance this time. For your information we were still paying off our war debt to the US right up to 2006.
      The Soviet Union was a union. How well did that work out? If you think domination by a dictatorship is a fair price for peace then you deserve the fate that awaits you.

    • avatar
      Cãlin

      Wendy, I see that there are things you don’t know, don’t want to know or just doesn’t matter for you. It’s strange to see on a site named “Debating Europe” people who are only trying to convince themselves that they are right.
      Anyway, Soviet Union was as much an union just as much the British Empire was one. Only the procedures were different. Any comparison between the comunist world and EU is null and I know what I’m saying.
      About the war debt… did you take account of the “Marshall plan” and the “excellent” way the british authorities managed the third party of the entire amount of money destined to Europe and also the loans it took from US and Canada…? I’ m sure not.
      In the end I’ll point out the thing that even UK resulted in a stable entity, without internal conflicts and efficient abroad only after uniting under one flag.

  70. avatar
    Galina

    I’m tired of this subject, seriously!

    • avatar
      João

      Tell a lie over and over again until it becomes true. Say nonsense over and over again until it makes sense. The mantra of most media organizations

  71. avatar
    Mathilde

    Yes, stop Brexit ! Their elderly are near death. The youths know better. With their help, we can stop the tyrannical UKIP!

    Instead, trust the EU! They know democracy. Cast all your cares upon them! Let Brussels take care of your needs.
    Do not resist them; they are our friends. They are Europe’s only hope!

    Long live the EU!

    • avatar
      Ivan

      lol 8|

    • avatar
      Stephen

      This is the funniest comment for a long time 😂😂😂

    • avatar
      Dave

      Who wrote this 💩 for you junker,tusk 😂

    • avatar
      Antoine

      Excellent! 😂

      “God save the EU!” 🙏

    • avatar
      Wendy

      Is that how you speak to your grandparents? Perhaps you would like to kill them off. Silly girl. You sound barely out of nappies.

    • avatar
      Mathilde

      Wendy 😂 My comment seems to have went over your head, didn’t it? 😎
      I thought the English were known for their banter…

    • avatar
      Mathilde

      Ivan be careful, Monsieur. The left in your country are fighting very hard for a “soft” Brexit. Take a look at this immigrant’s daughter and her views for the future of England:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7Ol0gz11k

    • avatar
      Arnout

      The only real danger is you.

  72. avatar
    Ivan

    Nope. So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye 8|

  73. avatar
    Ivan

    Debating Europe Why do you hate democracy so much ?

    • avatar
      Mathilde

      Ivan it is well-known by now that the admins for Debating Europe are communist pro-EU fanatics.

    • avatar
      Manuel

      Hello Ivan, I am glad to find you here. Let me say a few words about democracy that are not politically correct.
      Europe hates democracy so much (and especially referendums) because the Nazis came to power using democracy, the fascists too, and the radicals of North Africa also took power by the rules of democracy.
      Democracy is based on Greek ideals and at that time only a few Greeks could vote. People who were not considered Greek had no vote on any matter.
      On the contrary in today times any cat and dog can vote.
      And when you allow all the rats in your country to vote, then a piper can play a music that all the rats will follow him.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      The only alternative to democracy is the Tyranny wrought by the Socialists in German, Russia, China, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia, Zimbabwe, Vietnam, etc, etc.

      At least giving people a vote can reduce the chances of the Socialist nightmare because without democracy to keep them out we truly are lost & Western Civilisation is finished.

  74. avatar
    Bernard

    I don’t think so. More importantly, can a country where support for EU membership is at around 50% participate in such an onerous project in the long term? For such a deep and long-term commitment, a much larger and more permanent majority is necessary. This applies to other members, and not only to the UK.

    • avatar
      Ivan

      Then the failing European experiment is in real trouble comrade 8|

  75. avatar
    Giovanni

    Absolutely not! Thanks to God!

  76. avatar
    Kamil

    Yes, it can.
    The queen must make again some veiled comment before voting.

  77. avatar
    Paul

    Time to stop talking about stopping it and start making practical arrangements for when it happens.
    European prosperity, as well as citizens safety and security depends on reaching an acceptable accord.

  78. avatar
    Matthew

    The UK can take care of its own concerns now.
    These questions are dumb.

  79. avatar
    Ivan

    Arnout Thank you for that pointless and idiotic comment comrade, it’s just more proof that you pro EU fanatics are divorced from reality.

  80. avatar
    Paul

    As has been said, this is a question of politics…not of law….so the answer is yes…but at what cost ?
    It cannot (must not) be done by some form of cabal either at westminster or brussells. ..and there is no conclusive evidence of any substantial change of views in wider populace…so another referendum would most likely return the same result. ..or another highly divisive one leading to further decades of campaigning…a la SNP !

    Ps, the vote was to return to being a fully sovreign nation….with all that implies.

    • avatar
      John

      What does “full sovereignty” even mean in a globalised world? No country has 100% control over what impacts their citizens.

    • avatar
      Paul

      John its somewhat trite…but making its own laws…deciding its own trade agreements..managing its own immigration policy…not paying substantially fees into a supra national body forms part if it.. of course we continue to be part of, and abide by the rules of many international bodies…as well as whatever trade deals we may agree in future…..of course, the primary issue is one of democracy….if we dont like the direction taken by our legislators….we can kick them out…

  81. avatar
    Victor

    I think that it should not be stopped, but we all have to take many lessons from it. I am not sure whether to call this a democratic process as it was based on lies and racism, watching that the leave campaign broke the rules… Now I think that referendums are the back door of populism and with the social media they are very dangerous.

  82. avatar
    Olivier

    Why? Uk never Plays thé européan games

  83. avatar
    Michail

    Let’s change the question into the real meaning. Can democracy be reversed? Soros thinks YES. Debating Europe after the result of an election, you don’t change whatever doesn’t suit you!

    • avatar
      John

      Voters change their mind. If Brexit truly is “the will of the people,” what are you afraid of? Surely they’d just vote to Leave again?

    • avatar
      Michail

      Let’s keep voting forever. Maybe then people will change their mind again and decide Brexit after another Bremain. Your logic is at fault, unless you love the 4th Reich.

    • avatar
      Max

      Not the real question. A 51% vote decision where most of the electorate didn’t even show up isn’t the most democratic outcome ever. Especially since what was promised isn’t what got delivered. Swiss brexit my ass.

      The REAL question is whether people ACTUALLY want this, now that all the BS has been made plain, and now that most of the electorate actually cares.

    • avatar
      Michail

      Well nobody wants the 4th Reich or EU of today, but there are no elections and please don’t mention the EU parliament of lazy overpaid professional politicians who live the dream in Brussels, taking decisions vs the EU nations.

  84. avatar
    Montarcilio

    Any reason to forget people opinion? Rather the Brussels lobby trying reverse brexit through inside politics who doen’ t respect popular value vote.
    I’ am following from Portugal.

  85. avatar
    Franz M

    Theoretically yes.
    May can stop the article 50 process and within 6 weeks a referendum on the final deal is possible.
    The should should be able to decide on the final deal (the Torys who were voted for by less than 40) have almost by their own brokered this deal. Remainers and soft Brexeteers should also have a say, if they want to leave umder those terms. They did not lose their voting rights.

    If the people still want to leave, they are welcome to shot their knee jump if the cliff.
    (No-Deal: March
    Deal: after the transition period)

  86. avatar
    George

    A few days ago, DW reported that people in EU who think “EU is good for their countries”, is at at all time high. UK score – 48%.
    If people’s choice is subverted it will not be the first time, but them the plutocracy running EU and UK would have officially turned into tyranny.

    • avatar
      Vincent

      So you are saying that only 48% of UK population say that EU is good for them? Where did you get the figures from, the referendum?

    • avatar
      George

      Vincent Lia, DW is saying it. Source: Parlemeter 2018
      https://www.facebook.com/…/a.3742713…/10156216251019440/

  87. avatar
    Bernard

    Should the countries that have joined the EU also hold re-runs of their membership referendums every couple of years, just to make sure that the electorate hasn’t changed its mind?

  88. avatar
    Stef

    Are they going to repeat the vote untill it goes the establishment’s way?

  89. avatar
    Erika

    They voted to exit and they should go without keeping a foot in the door or have their cake and eat it….which is what they have been trying to do while holding european economy in a strangle hold. I feel sorry for the people especially for the young generation on EU funded erasmus programs etc but time is up and its time to go. ..the hard way if necessary.

  90. avatar
    Olivier

    No and it IS not suitable that UK reenters into Europe….

  91. avatar
    George

    Brexit can be stopped just like democracy can be stopped – with a dictatorship.
    The question here is, are we really openly debating dictatorship in EU?

  92. avatar
    Paul

    Can be…but now unlikely .the date of leaving (29/3/19) is now set in law. ..it would take primary legislation to change that …amendments and motions have no legal force.
    A 2nd vote would take between 6-9 months to organise which means that uk would have to participate in European elections in May !

  93. avatar
    Eds

    It seems as if all those sniggerish British comments from years gone by did not go unnoticed by her continental compadres. Ohh how the tables have been turned!

  94. avatar
    Любомир

    Too late for that now. It could and should have been prevented by some necessary reforms in the EU.

  95. avatar
    jthk

    How about the 48.1% i.e. 16,141,241 voters who voted firmly not to leave EU? How about those 34.62% who had not yet voted? Can the government be sure 17,779,713 people who had reached the voting age but had not registered for the voting had given up their voting right? When only 17,410,742 had voted in favour of Brexit, does Theresa may really believe what she is doing is representing the desire of “the people”? Who are those people? Are those 16,141,241 firmly voted to state in the EU and 17,779,713 not yet voted not people? Can such a huge no. of the people be ignored over such an important issue that would definitely be putting the UK in a very vulnerable position in this transition of great instability in the global political economy? I strongly believe that Brexit has been dragging too long and it is too late for the Brexit now. A referendum should only be used when the government is sure there is an overwhelming majority of the people but the opposition failed to admit such reality. A referendum passed by a simple majority would lead to more serious confrontation, which would do the country nothing good.

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