The people have spoken. On 23 June 2016, 52% of voters in a national referendum made it clear they would like the United Kingdom to leave the European Union. We know what they voted against (EU membership), but what did they actually vote for? Was it a vote to control borders and reduce immigration at any cost (even if it damages the economy)?
What sort of relationship does Britain want with Europe? Should it be an EU-Canada style trade deal, which might hurt economically but would guarantee the greatest degree of sovereignty over borders and laws? Or should it be a closer arrangement, along the lines of Norway, which would help minimise economic disruption at the cost of becoming a “rule taker” of EU laws and regulations?
Some (including the Irish Prime Minister) believe the referendum debate was inadequate. They argue that the “Leave” campaign was too ambiguous about the future relationship it wanted with the EU. The available options (Canada, Norway, Switzerland, WTO) were not spelled out clearly, and people were led to believe they could “have their cake and eat it” instead of making an informed decision about the trade-offs involved. There are even voices arguing that Brexit should be stopped, and not just from British “remoaners”; a group of influential German business leaders recently started lobbying for the UK to change its mind and stay in the EU.
Would such an outcome be anti-democratic? Voters are allowed to change their minds when they vote for a new government, so why can’t they reconsider their Brexit vote? Polling in the UK by YouGov suggests a clear majority (64%) think the British government are handling the Brexit negotiations badly. For several months there has also been a majority (albeit a slim one) who believe that, in hindsight, Britain was wrong to vote for Brexit.
However, we’re not asking “should” Brexit be stopped. We’re asking if it’s even possible. We had a comment from Alex, who wants to know what it will take to “reverse Brexit”. Is that even an option?
We put Alex’s comment to Katarina Barley, Germany’s Family Affairs Minister. She caused controversy earlier in 2017 by suggesting that the UK should hold another referendum on Brexit after the negotiations are concluded. Does she really believe Brexit could be stopped?
Can Brexit be stopped? A majority in Britain voted for a Brexit. Now they also have to deal with the consequences. I think it’s absolutely right for the EU to take a hard line in dealing with Great Britain. We must be clear: there is no better deal [than EU membership]. Everything else would have fatal consequences for Europe.
In an interview, I made myself very unpopular in the British tabloid press. In it, I demanded that the British vote once again on the overall package after the end of the Brexit negotiations. I am sure that the result would be fundamentally different than the first vote. For most people, it’s only just dawning on them the sort of irreparable damage that has been done.
We also spoke to Richard Corbett, a Labour MEP (Note: The interview was originally recorded back in May). What would he say?
This is all very well, but is it legally and politically possible? We had a comment from Rémi who reminds us that the UK is locked into a two-year process with Article 50. When the two years are up then the UK is out (unless there is unanimous agreement to extend the negotiations in the European Council).
To get a response, we spoke to Peter Catterall, a constitutional expert and Professor of History and Policy at the University of Westminster. What would he say?
Is Article 50 revocable? Well, probably, because I think in the end this comes down to politics, not law. We’ve always seen with European law that it’s malleable according to politics. The European Court of Justice has always had a slightly political interpretation of how things operate. If the political will was there to revoke it on the British side – because I don’t think there’s a problem with the political will to revoke it on the other side, whatever the Brexiteers say – then it would no doubt happen. The problem is that there is no political will to do that as yet, partly because even if you look at people in the government who suspect that this is going to be a disastrous outcome (which may well include the Prime Minister herself), they are prisoners of the Right-Wingers in their own party.
Can Brexit be stopped? Can Article 50 be revoked? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
331 comments Post a commentcomment
No, and EU should stop trying to stop democracy. EU is looking like tyranny
doesn’t matter that brexiteer`s lied all the time?
52% and non-compulsory as a referendum. this are not results that would enforce even a moral reason!
People have spoken. Everyone voted even by absense. If people dont care to vote, they are fine with anything.
Marcin Cieślikowski You mean lies like ‘There will be NO United states of Europe’ or ‘There will be NO EU army’ or ‘The British economy will collapse if we leave’ or … etc, etc ? There was indeed lies told to the British people during the referendum, by traitors, Brussels & EU fanatics.
Germany and Sweeden created this migrant crisis and are forcing it on all EU even tho majority of people in EU are against it, by large margin
EU is really undemocratic and like tyranny.
strong and stable my ass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6b3V2MNxQ
The overall trade deficit widened to £5.6bn in August from £4.2bn in July, for the biggest gap between imports and exports in 11 months, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). Look on food inflacion too.
Marcin Cieślikowski
Whatever you say comrade, whatever you say.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/ons-unemployment-rate-q2-2017-2017-9
Ivan Burrows Ask farmers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJbnG6KDaF0
Marcin Cieślikowski but pro-EU were a beacon of truth, huh?
Marcin you are posting pure speculation.
Britain has epic housing chrisis but you want EU and more people ….stupid
Marko Martinović Ok You call trade deficit speculation. Call everyone stupid maybe You will get smarter from that.
Its like you are from another dimension and can read only what you want to read.
Out of the EU you have a chance for much better deals, but only if you stop sabotaging yourselves and cucking to hell
Marko Martinović Yes, you have a better trade deal for one country than for 28 countries, dream on….
You where better off before EU… that is a fact. Not only in trade. Now you have to accept terrorism and you have to build walls on bridges. Rational people would fight a war to stop that lunacy
Marko Martinović Wall`s are only in your mind.
They put a wall out of cement blocks, after last car terrorist attack
@Marcin Cieślikowski
Bremaniacs lied too!
Can democracy be stopped?
That’s not the point, and by the way, a democracy based on lies isn’t a democracy, it’s just manipulation; and you need to be smarter, the question isn’t can Europe stop the Brexit, but more, can the UK population, after realizing the BIG mistake they are doing, after all the lies came out, could, if THEY want it, to stop it
There appears to be nothing in law to allow or prevent art 50 from being rescinded…however any move to do so would be challenged in court…so the delays in thst, plus the on going shambles in germany would play havoc with the brexit timetable.
Ultimately this is a political decidion…but would lead to more división within uk.
Also it is unclear whether uk rebate and opt outs would remain.
Frankly, rather than fantasize over this, would be better to focus on the future outside what is fast becoming a dysfunctional union..
No. :)
this brexit thing is totally a mess – what a disaster for both parties!
Brexit thing is the articulation of the will of people. Yep its messy to the failing eu but they played hard without thinking what the effects be. Now the eu should pay the price.
You’re not right man. This brexit thing is the outcome of the will of SOME people, with an economic impact on wide European scale. Chinese will conquer us, including the Tories and the British people that will pay a very high price soon as well.
You’re not right man. This brexit thing is the outcome of the will of SOME people not aware of macro-economical dynamics, with an economic impact on wide European scale. Chinese will conquer us, including the Tories and the British people that will pay a very high price soon as well.
The referendum was only ever meant to be advisory. It’s in the act from 2015, and elsewhere.
Jan Kowalski the rise of the Nazi party in 1930’s Germany was also the will of the people. this doesn’t mean people are always right ;)
Antonio Leanza I dont think so. In current shape and no way of reforms situation of membership of euro is unsustainable. Even more so under this rule, the chinks and rus would have conquered us easily with this budget and welfare bloat and near-dead economies. Eu might get reborn but Germany and France should apply for joining the eastern europe+uk+southern europe on our rules. Then we have some non-zero chance of succeeding. With Germany+France at helm we clearly dont.
Maybe vote for Brexit in 2016 will be different if EU managed to deal wit migrant crisis in 2015 … We never know
If EU actually managed to deal with a problem?
Yep, definitely. Fakefugee crisis was at least last nail for coffin if not even more important.
Ask them if they agree with the Brexit deal, once it is sorted out.
That could create an opportunity for everybody to re-think their Brexit vote.
No. Let the brits die alone.
lol
lloll
What, instead of dying with you??
Shut up and go back to your country. You dont belong in EU.
Totally agree. England did everything in its possibilities to gain and not give back to Europe. Yes, maybe we will die, but togethr, you will still live in your newly muslim country.
Ângelo Do Carmo How does it feel to be owned by the Germans…. again ? :)
Well, they are civilized, unlike the brits. So, its good to be in a union with them. I think scots and irish and wallish also agree with me.
How does it feels to lose all you companies to germany?
Well, they are civilized, unlike the english. So, its good to be in a union with them. I think scots and irish and wallish also agree with me.
How does it feels to lose all you companies to germany?
Ivan, how does it feel to be owned by Russians?
@Ângelo Do Carmo
Over our dead body! :)
Oh, don’t be like that. Have a hug from someone English. It’s not you, it’s us…let’s face it….it was never going to work in the long run…you don’t play cricket.
Eheheh its a pitty that you stopped playing football. It used to be the best in the world.
It shouldn’t
Whether Brexit can be stopped in accordance to the relevant treaties, I don’t know.
What I do know is that politically I don’t w a n t it to be stopped unless the UK forgoes all the exemptions it has secured over the years and commits to avoid requests for more exemptions in the future.
How about you just listen to the will of the people like democracy should?
You are trying to be smart and tolerant, but please realize that this wasn’t actually democracy since a lot of people are admitting that they were lied to and they would vote remain next referendum. Also it was almost a tie. And also, Scotland voted unanimously remain.
Well actually it was democracy. You were presented with project and where it leads.
All data, critics and debates were publicaly available and everyone could check them before voting.
By voting on such importand question you confirm that you agree to consequences that could come.
After voting you can’t take your vote back. If we could we would never have any elected polutician or law, cause everything would be changing every day.
Democracy without checks and balances does not really express the majority’s will. It is prone to populism and misinformation. I agree with Paulius Paždagis.
Once again: You gave your vote “For it” or “Against it”. If you had doubts you could not vote or vote against changes.
Referendum of Lithuania joining EU was based on propaganda (no negative effects were mentioned in debates) misinformation (A lot of promises where just pulled out of politicians asses like building new nuclear power plant and rising wages to Europe level), bribes (For vote everyone get bottle of beer) or to and even law was ignored allowing it to run 2 days to get required number of votes). Even our politicians admired that nobody read the whole documentation before signing joining EU papers.
But despite everything we must obey because “Joining EU was democratic will of the people and we must obey what we get”.
Vytautas Vėžys we were told “vote yes for jobs!” In Ireland… We never got those jobs
This whole eu club is based on deception. We got conned into joining too in Poland. Similar story to Lithuanian one was used on us. Leave the sinking ship as long as You can.
No
A democratic choice was given and made.
To revoke would be undemocratic
Agreed. Brexit should be respected and positively seen as a diversity of choice and leadership competition between UK and European Union – EU.
Sovannara, You can talk to eu hand. They will listen You and respect your rights coming out of democracy and pluralism but only as long as You agree 100% with them. When You cease, they will put the hands on their ears and call You a nazi.
Why the hell don’t you accept the will of those who won? Get a life!!
Its called sore losers in us.
Because today things have changed, and after all the lies came out, the population have chance their minds… it’s that a democracy? not letting the people change their minds?
In that case what do you suggest? Making a referendum until the result suits you guys?
@Mi Gu , a couple of points
1) Who says the population have changed their mind?
2) There were lies on both sides of the referendum and on balance, the lies from the remain camp have proven to be the most inaccurate
3) The referendum campaign was just one small part of the whole issue, the UK’s distrust of the EU has gone on for decades, and considering this was the first opportunity in over 40 years for the public to voice an opinion, the result should have come as a shock to no-one
4) The bullying and blackmail by the EU currently being disguised as “negotiations” is doing nothing but hardening the attitude of more people in the UK towards the EU
Brexit Must come.
It could, only, be stopped if the British so desired with an expressed vote upon a new referendum and, then, it’s government so deciding and even so the EU would have to accept such decision and to stop the exit of the United Kingdom only after all it’s remaining members accepted that proposal.
Despite what the loony left media and a handful of quislings tell you, there is no major desire in the UK to stop brexit.
Correct, and the more the EU refuses to carry out any meaningful negotiations the more public opinion is swinging to us just “walking away”
The whole Brexit affair is the fault of the EU for two reasons:
a) Its arrogance in believing it can do no wrong and that no-one would dare leave
b) Its total lack of understanding of the British public
however, the UK has still not dared to leave and the eu has totally understood the British public now, which is why it is not bothering with it… ha!
Where is this left wing media!? I’ve searched everywhere but can only find right controlled media 😂
@Karolina
What alternative reality are you living in?
We’ve voted to leave – Article 50 has stipulations don’t you know!
Karolina, the UK will be leaving on the 29th March 2019, why would they need to “dare” to leave before the defined exit date?…..and agreed, the EU doesn’t seem to be bothered about the public of any country as long as they keep quiet and pay their tax on time
Brexit can and should be stopped. But we have leaders like minnows. There’s got to be a change if the long term future is not to be decline
It wont but worry not much if You are Briton. You have been given false equivalence of uk out of eu means demise whereas Huge amount of people believes the demise will be there but more for eu whereas for uk things will get better. For Britain quotes lately express .co .uk article which says leave of uk will cause huge gap in the eu budget. Pay no extortion money to those criminals and You will be more than fine.
Yes, but only if when GB enters de Eurozone
And be like Greece ? No thanks.
For the beard of the Zeus, Belgs/Dutchmen are so pathetic.
Your assumption that a country with the history, culture and financial situation of the UK will have the same results in the Eurozone as Greece shows not only your total lack of appreciation for the UK but also your ignorance. Whoever is paying you to post this nonsense on here might as well flush the money down the toilet.
Even if it could be stopped why would the UK ever wish to reintegrate into a framework which has robbed from Peter to give to Paul. The Eastern integration has absolutely crippled the wealthier western and Nordic states and its clear that some states still have Pot heads and old chummy Eastern connections which they’ve folded into the cake mix. And here in an age of turbulence France and Germany are engaged in their joyful new delight of Anglo-Murica bashing. Somebody whack these kids in Brussels with a big fat history book please.
And there are many other issues that you may find smooth, while others may find them problematic.
La F, many many good people are working on stomping on them with juggernaut feet. Brexit is not the end, its rather just a beginning.
They voted out.
What ever the people reply to you back
You are going to make your on D N
This is just like a fun , posting something
I guess you could have a second referendum. But you really shouldn’t until the first one is implemented, or you’ll just be feeding “populism” and delegitimizing the mainstream elites who (again) refuse to respect the will of the people when this clashes with globalist doctrine.
Typical Europhile blinded view from Katarina Barley “it’s absolutely right for the EU to take a hard line in dealing with Great Britain. We must be clear: there is no better deal [than EU membership]”……
…..of course there can be a better deal, the EU does not add any value to what it does…it doesn’t earn anything…it merely distributes wealth whilst skimming off enough to keep itself in wine and business lunches……and as a basic law of physics is you cannot make something from nothing, among the EU members there must be winners and losers and currently the UK is a big net loser….
..if the EU had actually given Cameron a better deal a couple of years ago Brexit would never have happened, but their arrogance prevented them and if you don’t give those who are contributing the most a better deal than the rest then you have to expect them to walk away
What is this “Europhile” BS, Paul? You are aware we are EU citizens? Are you accusing us of loving ourselves? Is it supposed to be any other way?
You’re turning into a Kremlin troll as well? I bet you’re one of the “free of charge” ones…
Karolina, ……..not bullshit, it’s in the dictionary, go look it up….you can call your self an EU citizen but I would rather not. “EU citizenship” is a fantasy title promoted by the EU which it is not entitled to use as it is neither a nation or a state… personally I’m British as it says on my passport,and I’m also European because the UK is part of the continent of Europe…I am not EU because that is a profligate, political, incompetent bureaucracy and not something I want my name associated with
“accusing us of loving ourselves”..yes I suppose I could be, there are certainly plenty of europhiles in the corridors of power in Brussels who think they are something special
@Karolina
The UK will leave the EU.
The rancid, fervid and horrid behaviour of the EU will mean we will never join again!
52% vs 48% is a virtual tie. To have based such an important decision on a Simple Majority (50+1) rather than an Overwhelming Majority (60 vs 40) was fundamentally wrong. To claim that “the people have spoken” is a misrepresentation.
and what do you think the message was from the 28% of the UK electorate who didn’t bother to vote ….it certainly wasn’t pro-EU was it?
Why not 99.99 vs. 0.01?
It is only a ‘misrepresentation’ if you are on the losing side :)
Brexit is in breach of the Good Friday Agreement.
If anything can rescue the Brits from the self destruction of Brexit, it will be the Irish border.
Of course if the UK offered NI to Éire they could push ahead with Brexit and save even more cash.
OK but let’s keep this real. Handing NI over to the UK would be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement. So is a hard Brexit, or possibly any kind of Brexit.
That’s interesting, the GFA forbids NI from joining Éire? Could NI become a state in it’s own right?
Vincent Treanor is correct Declan O’Sullivan. The GFA explictly puts the fate of NI in the hands of the NI people. Legally only they can decide to stay or go via border poll (ironically the only referendum the UK is legally obliged to respect by way of UN garunteed treaty). An independant NI is in no ones interest or desire. Its a one or the other equation.
The Irish can easily exercise their right to self-determination and seek to join the Republic. It would be the best possible outcome for them. Occupiers out.
@Christos Georgiadis
Exemptions – don’t say ‘rebate’ as you’d have me crying with laughter!
@Vincent Treanor
NI is already in the UK?!?!?!
We dont like UK anymore…. what they did was very bad and proof how puppets they are like us but much worst…
Well , how do you mean ” WE ” , are you a repsensentatíve of Europeans , or what ? Pedro just speaking in your name , pls ! 😉
Those portugese/spanish they represent the creme de la creme of eu, You know, bad Zoltan? But seriously, their economy is on express train to hell and their fate seems too similar to Greek one. The trick now is to leave Germany or France whoever will be the last part of eu/eurozone with all the accumulated debts on which Germany made a healthy profit.
You clown. You’re a halfwit
Yes they made a great profit, stollen money from the poor countries to pay their hidden monstruous debt… portugal at least for 2 times payed the taxes of german debt
But nobody strategicaly talks about the debt of that countries…. seems they dont have …. but are hundreds of trillions…
Nobody cares.
Have you ever heard of democracy or Darth Soros had a private word with you, too :-( ?
Agymosott
Péter Sebők A fittng name for you, indeed :-( …
It is like a long and difficult labour, but what will be born in the end? And will it be alive? The people started the process and the people should finish it by deciding in a referendum if they like the final deal or not, or if they want no deal, or no Brexit. This will be most democratic. Otherwise, it can be stopped – the EU parliament already voted to make that possibility available in case UK changes its mind.
REAL question is :
SHOULD Brexit be stopped?
I mean this is a dream come true. The racist trash can of Europe, England just voted to KILL ITSELF economically, “donate” its financial center to France or Germany AND get out so they can’t stop federalization and more cohesion moves.
WHY..WHY would we want them to stop Brexit !?!?
@Adrian
Better a poor freeman than a rich slave!
“You will miss UK money!”
Oh here we go…you’re gonna miss X
You lot are like a bad girlfriend who we already thrown the clothes in the street after you left us and now you’re not leaving the apartment.
Instead you’re “you’re gonna miss the sex”.
NO WE WON’T.
Go ! Just go ! There’s the door.
The EU has no need for your smugness and arrogance. Go be Trump’s lapdogs like you always enjoy.
@Adrian
Writing as a person of colour in the UK – there are very few countries in the EU that are as race-friendly as the UK.
The Club Med countries and the ex-Warsaw-pact countries are very fearful paces for UK people of colour to visit.
BTW, the EBRD is not like a normal bank – very few jobs and it does as it is told by the EU.
Incidentally, watch out for more EU projects requiring France-specific funding in the future!
İt should.
Nope, in europe we have something erdogan and his minions dont have a clue about. Its called D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y. Meaning the politicians are slaves of people not the other way round.
How old are you
Yes. Stop it!
Quite the contrary. We will influence brits to leave asap. You will be left with Your non-economy and noone willing and able to pay Your subsidies and welfare. Its what eu asked for when drunken juncker told brits basically to f off after they said they want to leave.
Why don’t you bother yourself with your own country ?
@Jan Kowalski
You will miss UK money!
Ahahahah but who wants England in the EU? Seriously
I know right?
They’re making this big fuss and spamming ” oh but you gonna miss our moneyzz herp derp!”
No we won’t. Please just F off already, jesus christ !
Ok so you wont miss the money…….. therefore can you please forward your sentiments to Mr Barnier and tell him to stop whining on about the Billions he is trying to extort from us
Of course it can if is a political decision and people goes for a new referendum. Personally I hope not we don’t want more blackmail from the English special the Tories
No it cannot. We the British people are very happy to be leaving the parasitic, EU(SSR) dictatorship, it was a democratically achieved decision, not that anyone in the EU(SSR) would know about democracy, and the best news of all is all those hundreds of billions of pounds the British taxpayers handover each year, Britain being the single biggest contributor, will stop, and all those non-contributing, receiving member states will either starve or have to join the real world and work for their money.
I hope you starve in Alicante lol. Such an idiotic point of view. You should have stopped in the “No it cannot”. All the rest you wrote is just bullshit. Meanwhile return NI the Ireland if you have the balls.
Here in poland and generally in eastern europe we liked Your money and we are unlike parasites from south but we can get it back with our hard work and through trade agreements.
Yes, democratically with the help of Russia. :D
Russia is more democratic than the EU(SSR), at least the president was democratically elected, along with his government.
Good and shut the door on your way out.
Said by someone who is enjoying his rights given by EU. Carl Glover you are a troll or idiot
Obviously more intelligent and more informed than yourselves, do you actually know what the EU(SSR) actually is, who set it up and why..? No I thought not, but no doubt you’re from one of the non-contributing parasitic member states, communist, liberal lefties whom like their relative countries have served to accomplish nothing but still enjoy all that British taxpayers cash rolling in. Let’s see how long it lasts when all those hundreds of billions of pounds stop. 😂😂.
Oh man. Why do old people have always the same impractical and backwards views regarding Europe ?
Look the UKIP movement had some good points
and a lot of what Farage says was true.
But I think both UK and EU will be fine. No need to exagerate about “starving”.
EU has to improve relations with Eastern Europe (yes all of it: Poland, Hungary, even Ukraine, and Russia).
Atm the EU is all over the place with immigration,
left and right wing battles. It was Churchill who said the Pan Europa / EU project was too “Christian”. Now EU is too little Christian.
Young people understand Europe too retard. Get your head out of your uneducated arse.
Young people are bought off easy with the EU trinkets of no roaming charges,the older generations are smarter and have seen the results of these supra national entities like the USSR,not to mention how undemocratic it is.
@Jan Kowalski
From where I sit, Club Med countries plus ex-Warsaw-pact countries are BOTH parasites.
What’s worse democracy is a stranger to both groups!
“Russia is more democratic than the EU(SSR), at least the president was democratically elected, along with his government.”
*FACEPALM !!!*
No, not legally. Quite for the same reason as there can’t be another Scottish independence referendum for some time. This is dictated by the constitution of the United Kingdom. Quite similarly to how it is unconstitutional for Catalonians to separate from Spain. Besides – there is a power balance issue – there are three relevant countries in the EU: Germany, France and the UK. They are likely to have different views due to the composition of their politics and economies. As a consequence of that, they would find it difficult to agree on things which makes the EU inefficient at making decisions – since sizable portions of the parliament may find it difficult to agree. This is especially true because of differing definitions between countries of things even as simple as their position on the political spectrum. It forces them to resort to package deals – mediocre arrangements that are not best suited for the needs of each participant of the negotiating process. In reality this is true for pretty much any members of the EU, depending on how you want to cut it – East vs West, North vs South. Vyshegrad against the world :D So not only is it not legal for the UK to revoke it’s decision, the act of revoking itself is not desirable.
The uk does not have a writing constitution.so all your talk is nonsense.
It seems you also lack a bit of a “writing construction”. Don’t forget to correct “writing” into written as well ;). And once you sorted out your writing issues, take a gander at your reading ones – almost half of my statement is mutually exclusive from it’s other half, and you have yet to trump that argument, sir.
Can Brexit be stopped?
I can barely contain my wrath. Reading through this bunch of hysteria is simply gut wrenching. The stupidity is unbelievable from people who are supposed to be the top intellect, simply by coming here and taking an interest in politics. Usually only those with a brain do that.
First off, the vote was not advisory. See the link our government sent to every household in the land.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160813202542/https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk#a-once-in-a-generation-decision
In this leaflet copy you will see quite clearly the people were told specifically that the government would uphold their vote to either stay in the EU or leave the EU.
Remember this, half the bloody world had a vote on this issue in our lives. Not simply the British people. A vote was given to huge numbers of individuals, not connected in any real way, with the United Kingdom. So, had the vote been only for the British Isles the out or leave vote would have been a landslide. Add to that the millions of immigrant families and their older generation, living in the UK, who had a vested interest in remaining inside the EU and you will denote almost all ‘British’ voted for Leave.
The fix was already in but that fix was underestimated, even though they knew we wanted out, so, even giving half the world a vote, they came off on the wrong foot. It had not been rigged insurmountably. Which is why they were all at sea over the result. They couldn’t get their heads round it.
The British, as a people, have despised being part of the EU from the onset. When they were not given a vote for a two year period, after our duplicitous government of the day, took us in. That is what was illegal. The referendum should have taken place prior to joining. It wasn’t give.
Now, here is another aspect of the twisted story we have as a country and as a nation. Because of this fraud by our then government taking us into Europe without a legal vote or referendum, which was required by law, we never were in the EU.
So how about these onions, as we were never part of the EU, because of the illegality, Treaties signed were unlawful.
Read all about it.
The main Article in reference to this ‘Vienna Convention’ is number ’54’ on the Law of Treaties A69. It directs that Britain could simply repeal the European Communities Act of 1972 and replace it with UK Law.
Also search Article 62 of the Vienna convention on the Law of Treaties terminating over sign up of the Lisbon Treaty on the grounds of fundamental change of circumstances. Namely, the British people have ‘withdrawn their consent’ to be bound by The Lisbon Treaty. No Lisbon Treaty sign up = not a member of the EU. Formal notification is all that is necessary.
Have a rummage through these nice little information packs. It could save a lot of time and effort.
http://www.mpil.de/files/pdf3/beitr2452.pdf
There is more food for thought here.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-begins-overview-of-legal-issues.html
It is said ‘change of circumstance’ alters obligations under ‘good faith’ expectation.
https://englandcalling.wordpress.com/2017/03/29/the-vienna-convention-on-the-law-of-treaties-gives-the-uik-the-right-to-leave-the-eu-immediately/
i certainly hope not
“Hope is the last thing to be lost”
Putin wont alove.
It should. For the sake of English people!
World would be better if that island would be moved near to the USA.
Dont swallow the eu propaganda that after the eu only demise awaits uk. Nothing is further from truth than this lie. Extortionists work in pretty similar way. Never ever give in to extortionists.
Jan Kowalski I thank your for your concern but you know nothing about me to presume that I’m a naive and ignorant European citizen that needs your advice. Just the opposite! I’m an active citizen at national and European levels for a long, long time, and I’m a well-informed person from reliable sources not from fake news disseminated by sources not submitted to public scrutiny.
Well done Ana, normally it’s only idiots making comments on these subjects
that includes yourself… no John?
@Ana Spínola
You are not that well informed!
Brexit relates to more than 1 country, not just England!
Why? It”s up to them! Democracy!!!!!!
Let them go…
Because after the lies of the pro Brexit came out, population is regretting it; no one has told that Europe will force UK to remain, but if they make a new referendum today, they will chose to stay… They are the only ones that can stop it! A democracy based on lies, isn’t a democracy…
Anyway it must be their decition!
Mi Gu They should vote until they get the right result right? Very EU like indeed. We’ve seen it before. Several times.
Mi gu during the Lisbon treaty re-vote here in Ireland we were told to “vote yes for jobs!” Those jobs never appeared,do we get a re-vote again?!?
Dee, isn’t it interesting that whenever something doesn’t go the EU way there’s a re-vote? It’s calling the voters plain stupid. Mindless children. You can vote ok? Oh wait, wrong result, vote again please. This time do it right… EU at its best. The faster it’s over the faster we will all be safer.
@Mi Gu
The Bremainiac camp lied too BTW.
So did the UK government.
So did the EU.
So did Euronews.
So did the BBC.
What is your point?
didn’t the people vote….. OUT ???
Yeah, the ones over 65. The young ones have to live with it.
Satsuma Angel So should referendums not be allowed for 65+ years old? Or maybe there should be two referendums, one for 65 plus and one for enlightened adults and young adults. I wonder…
If it’s a one person one vote system, does it matters if the majority shares some demographic factor? The losing side can’t demand anything based on the fact that they happen to be younger than most people that voted out. It’s a friggin vote, can’t you understand the premise? The EU has obviously shown us that votes can be changed. Just make them vote over and over again until they get the right one. EU democracy. The UK should be glad it will be out of that ingenious form of democracy.
Satsuma Angel So should referendums not be allowed for 65+ years old? Or maybe there should be two referendums, one for 65 plus and one for enlightened adults and young adults. I wonder…
If it’s a one person one vote system, does it matters if the majority shares some demographic characterist? The losing side can’t demand anything based on the fact that they happen to be younger than most people that voted out. It’s a friggin vote, can’t you understand the premise? The EU has obviously shown us that votes can be changed. Just make them vote over and over again until they get the right one. EU democracy. The UK should be glad it will be out of that ingenious form of democracy.
Joao so true,we live in strange times with this new dubious EU democracy
if they are old enough to pay taxes…. I’m sure they are old enough to vote. Play fair.
Why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Honestly, I’d like this whole shitstorm to end up as a prime example on why referenda on complex issues fueled by short sighted and factually wrong populist narratives are, in fact, dangerous.
Was that suppose to make you sound smart?
Nope, just vocalising an opinion. Populism and short sightedness are destroying the western world, and it gets cheered on. Is it that wierd that some people lose their patience at some point?
O o, another Dutchman who got bitterly dissapointed when the formerly so cherished referendum turned out in a vote against the trade deal with Ukraine…
I always hated this kind of referendum. One emotional headline can sway a lot of voters, even if it is actually irrelevant or bogus. And actual politics requires taking into account many factors the vast majority of people are blissfully ignorant off.
Maarten Dominicus Schroders For a huge part populism, in its broadest sense, and ‘narrow mindedness’/ignorance formed the western world in the first place. It is not weird at all that some people like you lose their patience at this point, but it is quite astounding that it took you so long.
Peter, it actually has made him sound smart and you speechless and bitter over it…
……actually this “shitstorm” has been fueled by having to put up with a profligate, unaccountable, ideologically naive, politically self-motivated bureaucracy for over 40 years without being given a chance to voice an opinion about it…..there was nothing short sighted about it, most people had made their mind up how to vote long before the campaigning that occurred in the couple of months leading up to the referendum
Nope, the UK voted to leave, so they must now leave.
Hope is not u be better with out EU %100
You’re taking too long, and in Europe that’s saying something. :p We already have a new crisis to keep us entertained. By the time Brexit actually comes around I suspect we’ll already be well into our next one, too. Good luck, no hard feelings.
Kas dirbs tada britai idiotai
Obviously not, UK must know what is the meaning of being out of Europe. UK has been the less collaborative country during the development of the EU. Now, they will be the example of what happen when you try to impose unilaterally your politics to the rest of the continent. Maybe, in ten or twenty years, after they present their candidature to enter newly in the Union they will and can come back with a more positive attitude towards the rest of the Estates, and that will be the best for the Union.
Eu won’t no more exist in 10 years!
Thats what you think and hope remi.
EU in 10 years……😂
@Alejandro González
If the UK leaves the EU we will NEVER rejoin. The UK values democracy more than the EU and indeed especially more than corrupt Club Med countries.
Hiszek a demokráciában, tehát ne írjuk felül az GB emberek döntését. Lehetünk jó barátok, jó partnerek akkor is, ha nem vagyunk összekötve. :-)
You, LOST, Libtords.
EU is doomed. Visgard is going up.
They voted out. They should go out. Any attempt to vote again delegitises the meaning of Democracy.
I disagree. Yes they voted out, however I sincerely doubt a lot of people properly understood what they were voting for because no one could know what they were voting for. Don’t get me wrong, it is a citizen’s responsibility to educate themselves about their democratic choice, however where the people have been misled, which they clearly were in this instance I believe there are grounds to reconsider. Similarly, where the situation changes, which it is constantly, there are grounds for reconsideration. One is not bound to stick to a bad decision simply because it is taken. One can always revisit things and take a different course.
“Let’s vote until my opinion wins.”
Genius.
Actually, you can make a referendum about accepting the deal (if that happens) or not getting out.
It’s not like the campaign promises were true, so one can say people were mislead.
But why? UK will rejoin EU. Until then it can be used as an example of what democracy and manipulation do to nations.
The UK voted to LEAVE, to suggest they did not know what they were doing is an insult. Democracy is one vote with the results respected. Sadly the EU are doing their best to punish the UK for daring to make this decision, encouraged by a group of anti democratic people who will do anything to cause a bad Brexit just so they can say “told you so” I feel no animosity to my European friends, I just ask them to accept our decision. In the future you will be grateful, unless you try to damage the UK. That would be something you would all regret
@Steve Anderson
Not a fan of democracy eh!
On the contrary, I hope brexit extends and the EU is replaced by sovereign nations.
I believe people was misled :-)
Agreed, we were misled in 1975 when they told the UK public what the EEC was all about… 40 years later once the reality has become apparent if they give the public another opportunity to express an opinion do you think they are going to fall for the same lies a second time?
Good timing, this just published
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public
I agree. The UK was lead to believe that the EU was democratic and accountable. 43 years of lies ultimately lead to Brexit!
Wishful thoughts of the corrupted Brussels’ elites and their well paid puppets! :-D Like it or not the inhuman and social unfair EU is falling apart! 2018 will shock-shake you even more ;-)
Chinese are already conquering?…
Yesterday at a conference I heard that they are quite ahead on the 5G… quite ahead means that they could rule…
Hopefully its not stopped.
It is good for Britain, it is good for mainland Europe.
Maybe the Anglo divide and conquer for the last 100 years will be stopped.
Democracy is democracy. Or only when elites pretend it is?
@Randomguy2017
What does your 3rd sentence mean?
Ue is a poverty machine. No democracy.weke up, is not late.
Why stop the Brexit? I would like my country to follow the example of the UK.
Oh no, another phantom propaganda account.
Hi liberals! EU is not liberal. It isn’t even democratic, because people doesn’t really decide anything what comes out of EU institutions. I have enough that even our local gov extremely rarely does referendums, not to mention EU doing ever… I wouldn’t be against EU, if it where truly democratic…
Hi Kristo, yes it is democratic because it has parliament voted by the people and it is that parliament that takes decisions. Do you have a say in what comes out of your own local government?
Yes Karolina, it has a parliament but that is not where the real power lies. Brexit is one of the greatest challenges currently facing the EU and who is calling all the shots?…certainly not the “democratically “elected parliament.
The parliament was allowed to hold a vote on whether enough progress was being made in the negotiations, but the vote was non binding and essentially pointless, that alone should give you an indication of just how much contempt the EU has for democracy
I was talking about legal facts and not preferential opinions.
“I was talking about legal facts and not preferential opinions”
So was I, the EU Parliament has no legal standing over the Brexit negotiations… what has preference got to do with it?
Paul, the EU Parliament will be voting to approve the deal that may come out of the Brexit negotiations and without its approval the deal cannot stand, so, I’m afraid it has all the legal standing over the affair and it is how a democracy functions.
As usual Karolina you are deliberately missing the critical point being made. The key word is “negotiations”, once the deal is done it is too late for the parliament to do anything apart from accept or reject, and as with most things the commission dreams up, the parliament will no doubt just rubber stamp it.
I will say again without fear of being contradicted, the democratically elected part of the EU has no input into Brexit negotiations
@Paul X
Be careful – Karolina has been known to be economical with the truth.
And Tarquin has been known to post comments making 0 point to the issue debated!
Another pointless comment by you, Paul, consisting of assumptions rather than facts. You don’t have facts and you are unable to support your views. The facts are not on your side. If the EU parliament reject the deal, the UK will have no deal. If you are unable to work that out for yourself, please, don’t waste people’s time with your assumptions/predictions etc.
Yes Tarquin, I have noticed that….. In fact your post is the first time I have seen the words “Karolina” and “Truth” in the same sentence
Karolina “the democratically elected part of the EU has no input into Brexit negotiations” is a clear statement of fact
Please explain what assumptions I’m making?
Agreed the EU parliament may reject the deal, and it’s also possible the UK Parliament will have the opportunity to reject the deal, but that isn’t the point of discussion which is there is no democratic input into the Brexit discussions… (FYI a binary accept/reject once negotiations are complete does not count as input)
Unfortunately, Paul, if you cannot understand how a Parliament that makes or breaks a deal (and has already voted on a resolution as to what deal it will accept) has an influence in the negotiations for that deal, there is nothing that I or this page can do for you. You will need to find a teacher for people with special needs who can explain this to you. I’d be wasting my time to continue this exchange with you…
@Karoliar
The days of alternative facts [like yours] being passed without comment are over.
You should try to compose yourself and check your facts before posting – otherwise [as has happened multiply on your part] you will appear odious.
Still no facts from yourself though Tarquin, just insults and attempts at intimidation. Do you have to say anything of any substance to support your views or are you still using this page for psychological treatment?
I know the answer btw…
I really think that the page should ban people who come here merely to insult others without contributing absolutely anything to the debate, esp. when there is a pattern and this happens when they have been unable to prove a point. As already debated, something is not fake news simply because you don;t want to accept it and it doesn;t fit the agenda for your propaganda.
“Insults and intimidation” Karolina?…you mean like calling someone “special needs”?…hypocrisy in all it’s glory
Paul, I honestly advise you to not get offended but seek professional help.
So Karolina, are you suggesting that you complaining about somebodies insults whilst you yourself are being insulting is not hypocrisy? ……I advise you to seek someone with a dictionary
The above exchange covers me completely and is evidence for my conclusion. Have learning difficulties is a genuine medical condition that many people suffer from.
* to have
Wipeout the EU !
It should never have happened anyway. Most people don’t want it. Plus you can’t be changing the nature of a democratic state, removing rights from people on the back of swaying public opinion. You need to have 2/3 of society and that never happened in the UK. UK democracy needs to be strengthened and secured from temporal extremist governments.
So what rights are going to be removed..Human rights?…Britain was instrumental in drafting the charter of human rights, it is totally illogical to suggest that when the UK leaves the EU we will suddenly ignore legislation that we created
Workers rights? I doubt these will be torn up either, but at the end of the day the UK is fully entitled to ignore some of the more Socialist inspired legislation, after all, if the UK public really wanted it we would have elected a Labor government
Such as the right to sue the government, Paul, and many others, workers rights, as you said etc. Effectively, the UK will be moving towards a more authoritarian situation with fewer controls over the government and more rights for big business to exploit workers. This is why the Conservative party has campaigned for Brexit and is pushing for it. The Conservative party is defending the rights of big business at the expense of common citizens. On the other hand, the EU’s main goal is to bring an even living standard to people across its territory. Indeed, yourself have defended Conservative policies on this debate by expressing yourself against Polish, Romanian etc workers who migrate to the UK in an attempt to improve their living conditions, you have expressed yourself against maternity leave and also the cap on hours per week worked, if I am not mistaken. These are core EU policies meant to safeguard living standards and provide a work-life balance.
As to your post above, it is based on assumptions, as are most of your posts. There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better). The UK exactly is in a situation at the moment where one particular political party is changing the nature of the state and society on the back of the sway of a manipulated public opinion, manipulated by the same Party’s members. It is the worst situation that a “democracy” can find itself in. It’s how the Nazis started in Germany.
Karolina, for your information I have never voted Tory in my life and do not as a rule defend their policies….but I accept the fact that the UK has elected a Tory government and I therefore question why we should have to accept Socialist legislation from the EU when clearly the UK population does not want a Socialist government…please explain how that works in a democracy?
…and one correction, I have previously (and still do) question the value of Paternity leave not Maternity leave, it is a pointless liberal “equality” policy which benefits no-one
@Karolina
Plucking figures out of thin air again?
Why not 65.9% or 60% or indeed 52%?
Paul, I am sorry but we are not debating your political views and indeed we are not interested in whatever you may have voted. The point that I made above was regarding British “democracy” and removal of rights as a result of Brexit. My point stands.
Karolina, your point does not stand because so far no rights have been removed and there has been no indication that any will be……… the whole thing is a figment of your overactive imagination
For people with special needs: The rights will be removed when the UK leaves the EU and EU law stops applying in the UK…
Apart from the fact that my above comment uses the present continuous tense for removal of rights…
@Karoliar
Do you happen to have some facts to back up your comment, please?
“The rights will be removed when the UK leaves the EU and EU law stops applying in the UK…” complete rot to be frank Karolina, there is a bill to transfer all current EU law into UK law with immediate effect of Brexit, so on the first day of UK freedom nothing will change. Once these laws are under UK control the government may choose to amend some but there has been nothing to indicate if and what they may decide to change
..and I suggest you stop the special needs insults, many people including myself find it highly offensive…… and to be honest, once you stoop to personal insults of that nature you have clearly lost any creditable argument
Exactly my point, Paul, thank you very much. There is no commitment on anything and the intention exactly was to leave the EU so that British and no EU law applies. So, the speed at which this happens is beyond the point. However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.
Tarquin, the facts are common sense and if you do not understand them, which I am sure that you don’t, this is the perfect proof why commoners should not get a referendum on such complicated issues.
I insist certain individuals on here that come to the page simply to insult and harass others should be banned from the page. You cannot use the benefit of a debating page in order to sabotage a debate.
Karolina….you do not read too good do you?
“Exactly my point, Paul, thank you very much. There is no commitment on anything”
I clearly said the exact opposite, there IS A COMMITMENT that on day one after Brexit all EU law will still apply but it will be re-branded as UK law…. see item No.2 here https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/repeal-bill
Jesus, it’s difficult to know if you are being deliberately obtuse or if it comes naturally?
@Karoliar
“You need to have 2/3 of society…”
Would you please kindly provide FACTUALLY CORRECT evidence of your assertion?
There is nothing factual about it, Tarquin. It’s just how it works in other modern democracies. You can do it how you want depending on how much you value democracy. But the UK is of course a monarchy, not 100% democratic.
Paul,
“As to your post above, it is based on assumptions, as are most of your posts. There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better). The UK exactly is in a situation at the moment where one particular political party is changing the nature of the state and society on the back of the sway of a manipulated public opinion, manipulated by the same Party’s members. It is the worst situation that a “democracy” can find itself in. It’s how the Nazis started in Germany.”
“So, the speed at which this happens is beyond the point. However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”
Karolina, here is the bill and it’s progress through Parliament, this is not an “assumption” it is a fact (something alien to you I know but please accept it)
https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/europeanunionwithdrawal.html
The evidence to back up what I’m saying is contained within this bill though I’m pretty sure you will not bother reading it as you seem to prefer spending all your time on here arguing black is white
From above for those who need to read it a 3rd time:
” There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better).”
” However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”
The intention of this REPEAL Bill exactly is to change current legislation, meaning the EU one will not apply… straight common sense for those of average intelligence.
Over here on the Continent it really is black and white, Paul. People don;t vote for nebulous promises and fantasy situations without commitment. You understand how the British approach is not working in this debate page and it could never work at the EU either…
Karolina, direct quote from the repeal bill 3(1)
” Direct EU legislation, so far as operative immediately before exit day, forms
part of domestic law on and after exit day”
i,e. all the EU laws on the day before Brexit will be incorporated into UK domestic law the day after…..it couldn’t be any simpler…. and considering this is a bill that is going through the houses at the moment i suggets that is a perfectly clear commitmemt from the government wouldn’t you?.
Repeating a lie 3 times will not make it the truth
Calling sth a lie will not make it any less truthful :-)
Again the quote from above is the perfect response.
” There has been no commitment from the Conservative government on any of those issues and indeed why would it want to leave the EU, if it is going to keep all of its laws. One of the main points of the anti-EU campaign has been about British Laws (without any elaboration as to how or why they are better).”
” However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”
Unless you have something new to respond, which is not already covered in my previous comments, no need to post further (which someone of average intelligence would have worked out by now).
Real men take defeat and move on with dignity. Unless there is a learning difficulty…
Karolina, I’m stating a fact and supporting it with hard evidence, you are continually repeating the same verbage over an over.
Nobody yet knows the UK political landscape post Brexit, there may even be a general election, a Labor government and more workers rights, who knows? certainly not you so stop pretending your assumptions are in any way the truth
(A basic rule of debating, if you want to claim “victory” then you need to at least be giving a factually proven argument, not some fantasy story)
Same goes to you, Paul. You live in a fantasy world. My comment is based on common sense and what has been debated as part of the Brexit discourse.
Oh, and by the way, since you didn’t get it the 3-4 other times posted:
” However, the right to sue the government will be removed automatically because the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will not apply.”
Still waiting for you to provide evidence that a citizen will be able to sue the UK government after it leaves the EU and that all EU law will be preserved permanently but it doesn’t look like it’s coming,
Karolina, your starting to sound like a stuck record banging on about this “sue the government”, why don’t you actually explain what is so great about it and more importantly, give some examples of exactly how the public have gained a benefit from it?
..and I never said EU laws will be permanently enshrined in UK law , my exact words were (quote)
“there is a bill to transfer all current EU law into UK law with immediate effect of Brexit, so on the first day of UK freedom nothing will change. Once these laws are under UK control the government may choose to amend some but there has been nothing to indicate if and what they may decide to change”
I know it’s difficult for you but please stick to the facts and stop making things up…
@Karoliar
“There is nothing factual about it…”
Ergo Karoliar is often economical with the truth.
I rest my case!
In other words, you are unable to contest my original comment… Thanks very much for coming to this conclusion and what was the point in all these exchanges if you were unable to contradict my comment in the end?
To try and make it less obvious how bad Brexit is and how the UK is actually moving towards fewer rights for citizens…
Do everyone a favour Paul, including the admins of this page that have to check comments, and unless you have something of some substance to say (excluding tantrums and bickering) just refrain from posting. I will definitely be ignoring irrelevant and pointless comments.
Karolina
Feel free to ignore “irrelevant and pointless comments” but my direct question to you about the “sue the government” legislation has become very relevent (by you continually referring to it ) so can you please provide an answer?
Can Brexit be stopped?
No it can’t and here, finally, we are told how this bent organisation should be put down, the way you do an old dog.
Now they can move on International Law, Vienna Convention.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public
How many other States were dragged in on lies? And don’t forget to note the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan you refuse to take not of. Well here it is. Look into your archives.
“Can democracy be raped without backslash from the people?” , in other words.
@Marko Martinović
Do not blame single states for this mess.
It is part of an old Pan Europa and now EU idealogy
to bring in masses of immigrants.
The wars in the Middle East often caused by US nonsense
like Libya, Syria (proxy), Iraq, Afghanistan increase the immigration,
most of them come to Europe.
Even other countries around the Africa region are coming
because of elites and ngos which want those immigrants for cheap labour
and to change the face of Europe from those imaginery “racists” in Europe.
This all started after WW2, UK and France,
then Germany and Sweden, and now almost all of countries are accepting them.
@@Marko Martinović
When the UK joined the EU in the sixties, London and our cities has a feel of a normal, safe environment, with a culture that was relatively mild. Low murder rate, not fear of rape or acid attacks. See links.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXDeftNL5wc
And before being part of any European integration and unsustainable Globalisation policy. It looked and felt like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdfXjmfhc6s
However, after being part of the EEC and EU in which we were fraudulently enrolled by Ted Heath and his cronies, and under their enforced migrant policy, London today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_xx9b2sjU4
You will see it has changed beyond recognition. Not culturally British, not an environment we recognise any longer, and in fear because we are unsafe. Murder is rife, rape occurs at an alarming rate and acid attacks an almost daily occurrence.The outcome is, white flight from our British cities, this is EU policy and enforced migration under European law.
What utter poop !
“Not culturally British, not an environment we recognise any longer, and in fear because we are unsafe”
Who is “we” ?
Who the fuck is this “WE” ?
You don’t speak for everyone. You and your trio of deranged lunatics who “no longer see the culture as british waaaahhhh” need to get with the times.
@Adrian
Actually the “we” applies all across Europe to anyone who has felt threatened or intimidated by groups of immigrants invited into their country by the liberal idiots that run the EU… and anyone who says this situation does not exist is naive beyond belief …”if getting with the times” means burying your head in the sand and calling people “deranged lunatics” just because they have real and justified concerns then you and all the other keyboard warriors need to get out of your bedrooms and go visit certain areas Sweden, France or Germany
@Adrian
I am particularly frightened of the numerous Romanian pickpockets, professional-beggars and worse that abound London and indeed further afield in the UK!
What about the numerous Nigerian scammers, Tarquin, are you worried about them. I reckon they steal larger amounts than the Romanians.
@Karoliar
Yes – I too am wary of Nigerian scammers.
BTW, have you got any evidence to support your assertion?
Nigerian scammers disappear with a click of the delete button… a pity it wasn’t so simple on the streets of some of our cities
Not making an assertion. I hope you understand what “I reckon” means. Have you got any evidence about your assertions?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10053846/One-in-five-murder-and-rape-suspects-are-foreign-nationals-figures-show.html
“In London immigrant accounted for more than a third of the 210 rape suspects who were charged.
Twenty four were from Jamaica, 14 from Nigeria, 13 from Poland and ten from Portugal.
Out of 180 suspects charged with murder in the capital, 41 were foreign – including seven from Jamaica and five each from Turkey, Poland and Sri Lanka.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/28/vote-leave-releases-list-of-serious-crimes-by-eu-citizens-in-britain
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672735/half-of-British-rape-suspects-are-foreign
“Immigrants were alleged to have been responsible for 17 per cent of these major crimes….Murder suspects included five from Poland, five from Sri Lanka and three each from Albania and Italy….Nineteen Jamaicans, 13 Nigerians, 11 Portuguese and 10 Romanian and 10 Somalians stood accused of rape.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-migration-six-myths-about-immigration-debunked-as-latest-figures-show-fall-in-non-eu-arrivals-a6895341.html
“A report by LSE in 2013 found that crime actually fell significantly in areas that had experienced mass immigration from eastern Europe, with rates of burglary, vandalism and car theft down since 2004.”
“The research found that offending rates among Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian communities were in line with the general population.”
Doesn’t look like we’ll be hearing back from Tarquin on this one either…. He’s going to pretend he didn’t see it and then say that only Romanians or whoever is putting up the pick pocketing rate…when his compatriots are even higher on the rape and murder table…
@Karoliar
LOL! You must be really annoyed to bother posting so late in the day.
Here are my ripostes:
Your TELEGRAPH link ==> Fewer EU foreigners means less UK-based crime – thank you for supporting my PoV.
Toilet paper often bears greater verisimilitude than the ‘GAURNIAD’.
Your Youtube video was hilarious.
Your DAILY EXPRESS link ==> Fewer EU foreigners means less UK-based crime – thank you for supporting my PoV.
Your INDEPENDENT link was soooo funny. The article text confirms that EU foreigner immigration to the UK was rising.
The LSE is a pro-EU, EU-funded ‘EUganda merchant’, its gravitas has been greatly denuded. Even so ‘in-line’ is a PC attempt at narrowing the gap between UK criminality and EU-foreigner criminality.
Karoliar – you have been tested, bested and jested.
Pray tell, continue – you are a source of great merriment to me! :)
Ah, once again, Tarquin, you carefully avoid the point of the above exchange and try to twist it into something else. I take it, you have got the point of your own compatriots being responsible of far more serious crime and that, under your own logic and the policy that you promote, people from Nigeria should be sent back there, that would have included your own parents and you would not be living in the UK either. Not that I agree with such an approach, just following your own hate-filled “logic” and posts on here.
Clearly, this is not a comfortable conclusion that comes out from the statistics above. Not for Nigerians at least.
I would like it.
@Marko Martinović
Somehow this last link missed the page.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hbxsGFK4I4
Would you want to change Brexit?
@ Adrian
Okay, first off, where do you come from and reside? No need to keep it a secret is there? And as far as I am able to see and read, you speak for no one.
Second, the UK is quite definitely ‘not’ culturally British in vast areas of the country. Second, the, mainly rural areas that have some resemblance to the country we knew and love is being forced into changes it does not want or need. To the point where the British feel disenfranchised. They live in fear of speaking out against the crime committed against them, namely, enforced and strange robbery of the taxes to support and maintain wealthy Globalists, countries that do not need our aid, mass immigration from areas of the globe that are not ready to assimilate into a culture that is completely opposed to their way of life and expectation. This is creating an alienation for all involved, not simply those of the host culture. And it is creating a separation of citizen and State. People are turning on each other in ways not seen in the UK previously. And many believe this is a deliberate act by the EU and others outside our borders of divide and rule.
Only idiots call planned genocide of a people poop. The we is the majority who voted to get out of Europe. It is seen as the first step to saving our democracy. And as Eastern Europeans who benefit greatly from our welfare system, have no concept of what democracy is. As do the majority entering our country, legally or illegally, from areas on the planet where democracy has never been [art of their lives. They have no understanding of it.
And as a side bar, who the F are you? Certainly not one of the people of the UK who has not been indoctrinated by our ineffective and inefficient school system. You show signs of the programmed robot filled with wiring from the maddened PC brigade that grows bigger by the day.
The answer has to be a large slice of land available, in island form, similar to the land given to Israel, for all the disenchanted people of the UK to escape to a society they can, once again, feel at home in. It could be just what we have already known as the UK. That way, like Switzerland, we can flourish, New World Order, free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucguJvuKmQg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMT38PSCHjY
I’m sure they’ll blame it on Brexit…
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/883469/toxic-smoke-cloud-brussels-fire-Milcamps-waffle-factory-Forest-evacuation
I think UK sitizen wasn’t inform good, for wath will happen and for all process about Brexit and after Brexit. So they took uninformed decision
@Venko Drumchiyski
The UK populace was DELIBERATELY NOT INFORMED about the long term path of joining the EEC then the EU and finally REICH IV!
https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/photos/pb.794492093982367.-2207520000.1511600339./1460957637335806/?type=3&theater
Can Brexit be stopped?
It appears, from what I have read in the past and again today, that the ‘discussion’ over our Brexit negotiations has already come to a deal. According to the Telegraph in September 2017
XXX The Telegraph writes:
Theresa May made a pledge to ‘honour commitments’ in her Florence speech Credit: Maurizio Degl’Innocenti/Reuters
Peter Foster, Europe Editor, Brussels
27 September 2017 • 9:50am
Theresa May “took dictation” from the European Commission when she agreed to pay a Brexit divorce bill in her keynote Florence speech, senior sources in Brussels and EU capitals have claimed.
The Telegraph understands that Mrs May included a specific pledge to “honour commitments” made during Britain’s EU membership following high-level consultations in Brussels, Berlin and other major EU capitals.
Oliver Robbins, the Prime Minister’s most senior Brexit official, discussed parts of the speech with his counterparts in the EU including a promise that the UK will continue to pay €10bn-a-year to Brussels in the two years after Brexit.
The pre-agreed wording was shared with EU officials before Mrs May had even showed her Cabinet a draft of the speech the day before she delivered it.
A senior EU official said: “The Commission pretty much dictated the section on the financial settlement.”
XXXX End of Telegraph piece.for this post XXXX
Now how and why would this promise be part of such negotiations that supposedly have yet to be reached? All sounds as if it is pre-prepared and set out for these so called leaders to ‘perform.’
One would have thought a better approach would be to take this reasoned argument as their guideline.
‘When the trading bloc (EU) can produce the contractual clause (agreed by the UK prior to June 2016) that specifies the sum, and why, a departing state should pay the bloc, then it will be looked at. Until such time as that takes place, the UK’s obligation to the bloc is about the £00.00 mark. The bloc has now resorted to begging and extortion but is still continuing in their attempts to bully and demean Britain. It is now time to withdraw from these talks as time after time the bloc has proved itself to be both unable and unwilling to negotiate. Negotiating is an art that their functionaries think is strident demanding to get what they want, I wonder what vassal state gave them that idea? If, after March 29 2019 the bloc feels that it may want to discuss some sort of trading arrangements with an independent, self governing, United Kingdom, then I am sure they may be listened to. They may well bear in mind that the UK could demand a “golden handshake” of around £80 Billion from the bloc before any negotiations are entered into.’
This would appear to be a more mature negotiating platform from which to bring our present negotiations to an immediate halt.
@Karoliar
I live in a democracy. The ability to speak or comment freely is a democratic freedom that even the EU supports – although it does try to hide or obfuscate or diffuse ideas/concepts/mindsets that are contrary to EUGANDA!
It is clear that ‘freedom of speech’ is a concept that you do not understand, do not appreciate and do not care for.
I am entitled to speak freely – I do and I will.
When it comes to “Pedler’s of fakery” [like YOU – prone to hyperbole and or inexactitude] I will challenge you and correct you if you continue your campaign of disingenuity!
Loud words but no facts/actions… Ignorance and self-delusion are your guiding principles. They are actually so obvious that I am starting to think that you are also being paid to post this nonsense.
I appreciate a genuine debate with sophisticated comments. But I haven’t got time for this kind of nonsense. Obviously, your inability to support your claims with facts is making you angry and is making you fire pointless posts like this one. Commiserations. You will just have to learn to live with the knowledge that you support certain views because of how they make you feel rather than because there is any substance in them. Get over it.
@Karoliar
52% of the UK voted for Brexit – thus your assertion is wrong!
Who/what mandates that you need a 2/3 majority of society…?
UK democracy is superior to that of the EU (look at TI for proof) and indeed it is superior to most nations in the world.
Why do you keep peddling fake news?
Remember Karolina: You have been tested, bested and jested!
Many others before had feelings of superiority over other nations and they killed millions because of it. You have exactly now proven that Brextards are the new Nazis.
@Karoliar
Might I refer you to Godwin’s law! LOL!
@Marcin Cieślikowski
Please refrain from sexualised comments – especially those involving animals. UGGGHHHHHH – disgusting!
UK national anthem
https://youtu.be/BN1WwnEDWAM
Not at all the majority voted to leave it’s a few traitorous politicians and a few remainers that are trying to stop us leaving .
Funny XD
We are leaving the antidemocratic EU so why the hell would we stop it ?
NO!! of course, NOT! respect the legal process of British voters
Yeah, but why would you want to? A country as independent as the UK is leaving the EU means all those corporation funded EU parliamentarians and banksters can more easily pass on laws that benefit the few at the great, long-term expense of the many.
NO UK IS A DEMOCRACY UNLIKE THE EU
I hope not, because that will mean there’s absolutely no hope of any of the rest of us being able to escape total domination by our EU overlords.
Can British people be stopped? Yeah, sure, by the means of another World War.
Another good reason for Brexit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42354864
So “removing EU citizens found sleeping rough on UK streets is unlawful” and “broke freedom of movement rules”
A typical exampe of what the liberal EU idiots have forced upon us without consent, The “fundamantal principle” was for freedom of movement of workers, nowhere in the Treaty of Rome does does it mention freedom for dossers and vagrants to beg on another countries streets
No of course not. Now the truth is out about the true goal of the EU why would we stop it ? Your’e all doomed, doomed I say.
Here we go again :D :D
I think UK must have to live a couple of decades alone to realize their failure.
.
UK manufacturing ends the year on a 30-year high & we have just been voted the best country in the world to do business in so if that’s ‘failure’ bring it on lol
http://www.cityam.com/277807/uk-has-just-been-named-best-country-business-2018
Wait and see. After you leave you’re going to suffer.
Vicente Silva Tavares And one day you will solve the problems of the idiotic job destroying Euro, but I doubt it. We are British and have no need of your pointless Brussels empire.
Lol investmen protection corruption freedom all things that are for sure. Machines in the industry from the 80s. Depending on immigrants for the industry NHS, for sure that article was well paid. Time to wake up knock knock reality is at the door. You guys are great comedians
Yes it Can in theory but i do not thinking unfortchently that The politicians in GB Will do it useless Skottland Can manege to somehow stop it.
Yes, But the usefulness of the stoppage depends on the EU
Blind leading the blind ..
All the facts were not properly debated in the first referendum. Now, voters have a much clearer picture of what they would be voting for, so there should be a second referendum. In life, when you make a mistake, you should correct it. All I can say is that if there is no second referendum before Theresa May loses a vote of confidence and calls an election, then Brexiteers should complete there mission by electing Jeremy Corbyn and completely destroying the British economy. That is a good possibility.
No, get over it
No. a referendum is a referendum
Maybe in the far future UK might apply for membership if the things don’t work as they like. Who knows!!
At least with UK outside the Union, the rest of the European countries can move to closer ties and cooperation such as European Defence etc which the UK was against and used his veto.
I Hope not.
ohhhh
Why sould be?
Yes, and it probably will.
No. Like you said: People have spoken… Deal with it…