UPDATE 27/10/17: What a difference a week makes! It’s been a mere seven days since our original post, but things have moved fast. It’s a very fluid situation in Catalonia, and yet there is little sign of a resolution being found anytime soon to the political deadlock gripping the region. Last Saturday, the Spanish Government did indeed announce special measures to restore central government control over Catalonia under Article 155 of the constitution. According to Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, the measures will “rescue the region’s autonomy, rather than suspending it”. They include the dismissal of the regional government and its leader, and the calling of elections in the next six months. Before coming into effect, these measures will first have to be approved by the Spanish Senate.
After initially indicating he would not appear before senators to defend his position, Carles Puigdemont, the leader of the Catalan Government, wrote to the Senate and called on them not to authorise his dismissal. Yesterday evening, in a long-awaited and much-postponed press conference, Mr. Puigdemont confirmed rumours that he had been considered a snap election, but he had not been offered sufficient guaranties that this would prevent the application of Article 155. This has led him to rule out the possibility of early elections, leaving the issue in the hands of the Catalan Parliament.
Finally, both the Parliament of Catalonia and the Spanish Senate are set to reconvene again today. For the former, all options are on the table, including unilaterally declaring independence; while the later will vote on triggering Article 155. For the Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party there is still time for Mr. Puigdemont to reverse his decision and call early elections (the party has even presented an amendment stipulating the suspension of the Article 155 special measures if this happens), but the window of opportunity is clearly closing, putting Spain hours away from a potentially historic moment.
How can both sides break through the chaos and confusion and get a handle on what is happening? Will independence be declared today? Or will it be once again postponed? Is there anything the Spanish Government can do to prevent the birth of the “Republic of Catalonia”?
ORIGINAL 20/10/2017: Where now for Catalonia? It seems the space for dialogue between Mr. Rajoy, President of the Spanish Government, and Mr. Puigdemont, President of Catalonia’s Generalitat, is rapidly vanishing. Even EU leaders agree there is no place for EU-mediated talks, as they reiterated their support for the Spanish government during a summit in Brussels.
After several missed deadlines for Catalonia’s leader to clarify whether or not it has declared unilateral independence, the Spanish government is now all set to activate Article 155 of the constitution and suspend the region’s autonomy. The process could take another week, as it will first need to be discussed and voted on in the Spanish Senate. Over 80% of senators are expected to vote in favour (including members of the Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party and the ‘Citizens’ party), while Podemos and the Basque Nationalist Party are likely to vote against it.
Article 155 has never been invoked before, and the Spanish authorities are very much moving into “uncharted territory“. The application of special measures is expected to be brief and limited. These could range from taking over control of finances and regional policing (Josep Lluis Trapero, chief of the autonomous police force of Catalonia, is already under investigation for sedition) to calling regional elections in Catalonia, aimed to be held in January 2018.
In response, the Catalan president has threatened to unequivocally declare independence if Madrid moves to suspend autonomy. All of this while more companies and banks are moving their offices from the region and the growth forecast for the whole of Spain, not just Catalonia, is plunging.
Will suspending Catalonia’s autonomy help resolve the crisis? Or will it escalate things? How can space be built for compromise and dialogue? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
214 comments Post a commentcomment
Rajoy: “This is the idea: we control judges and the media, use the Law as we please, repress those who protest, ignore those who ask for dialog, and rule on Catalonia without being elected. And if it works, we do it with everything.”
Franco: “But, it will look like a dictatorship!”
Rajoy: “Ha Ha! No, man. Much better than that: It will look like a democracy!”
True satire!
But seriously:
Where comes that strong feeling of Catalonian Autonomy from when all what people of the world need is Global Unification. And that IN Truth and only the #Truth?
Think about. 🤔
We can be united in our diversity. Simple as that.
Afraid of regional elections? Those where each person get 1 vote only?
Not at all. Pro-Catalonia parties have won ever since we have elections.
@Ether Traveler
A ‘global world’ = ‘prison plane’t!
Spain is an State of Law. You are lying and you Know it. You enjoy freedom like never before. And you and people like you are hurting very badly Cataluña specially.
This is not about dictatorship but the rule of law, the very essence of a democracy. It is not about dictatorship but the sovereign power of the state. It is also about the Constitution which is the supreme law. It is also about the power of the Constitutional Court which is the sole source to interpret the Constitution. It is through this way a democracy is governed.
As all democracies and contemporary states, law and order of Spain is written in the Constitution. Judges would naturally based on the Constitution for judgment. Try to respect the Constitution and the judicial system. Spain is not an anarchy.
Self determination is a fundamental right….
The outcome of such undemocratic steps by Spanish government will be Olympia Utopia for them.
Self determination of a region that has belong to Spain for more then 500 years? What are you talking about? What rights are you considering? What about of the rest of the country that du not want to loos a part of the country’s territory?
Human rights should not be exaggerated. If laws are submitted to individual desires, democracy would become an anarchy.
suspending is not the right word . May be for Ulster but not for Catalonia.
It will certainly not. It will only make catalans want independence even more.
It is not the best solution but at this point is the only one. When someone just decides to break the law and implements illegal procedures the goverment must take this tough decission.
I do not like to see a centralist spaniard with a facebook cover with my capital on it. It gives me shivers down my spine.
“De Espanha, nem bom vento, nem bom casamento.”
Right.
José Bessa da Silva Sorry to bothering you but defending our constitution it´s not centralism. Spain is more decentralized state than many other European countries including Portugal.
Gosto da su lingua e gosto musitissimo do seu pais e por iso que tenho o padrão dos decobrimentos como a minha foto no Facebook.
Our government gave several opportunities to Catalonia to change its path and enter again in the constitutional way but Catalonian government refuses all these opportunities then our only way it´s to implement the law.
@Eduardo Santamaria
Your constitution is flawed – it does not allow a region the right to self-determination. If the law is flawed it deserves to be broken!
Portugal is not decentralised state because the portuguese people decided not to in a referendum. Poor choice to compare a mere imperialistic state with a unitary nation.
But since we are now comparing Portugal VS Spain, it is also good to remind that while Portugal garantees the right to independence and insurection in it’s constitution, Spain does not allow even a democratic referendum to be hold in Catalunya and instead decides to kill a man and injure 900 more by sending a militarized police to repress the voice of the people.
Again, I don’t like to see a centralist spaniard with a facebook cover of my capital. Take your hands out. ;)
So you , José Bessa da Silva, are acting the same way that the nationalist catalan goverment does, as if Portugal was just yours to give or take, depending on whether the rest of the people think like you or not…
Jaime, that comment is quite stupid and unrelated with what is going on in Catalunya and most certainly unrelated with what I said.
That is the mantra of terrorists, Tarquin. The expectation is that either you abide by the laws of a certain society the benefits of living within which you are enjoying, or you remove yourself from it.
No
Saddly Catalan politicians have used their autonomy to undermine the constitution of the country their region belongs to . Suspension of it will make things worse and coexistence has already been badly hurt in this country but the catalan politicians share the biggest part of the blame for this fiasco than Madrid
Correct
Catalan politicians are to blame because did not respect the Law..
Incorrect.
it is not about solving the crisis it is about reinstating legality
Exactly. The crisis were invented and promoted by catalan separatist/supremacists. What the government is doint is to reset democracy there, forcing the Catalan President to leave, and making legal elections on January of next year
EXACTLY !!!
@Eduardo Tomé
Legality based on an immoral and flawed constitution!
Lambe-botas detected…
Regional elections in january will solve the crisis.
There was elections already. Independentist parties have absolute majority in Generalitat.
We’ll see after january José Bessa da Silva.
If they decide to accept newelections yes, we will ser. If on the contrary they carry on with Catalunya’s independence, then they have all the right. They were elected and held a referendum even though we all know how much it hurts in your undemocratic europhile butts.
Yes becouse as we all know that waste of paper you call a referendum was a paragon of democratic values where everyone could vote from anywhere, as many times as you wanted as long as the vote was yes…
Calling other undemocratic would imply you knew how democracy works but aparently that’s not the case!
I’m sorry if I dismiss your comment about the validity of the results but well, after 1 dead and 900 injured by the militarized castilian police, it seems rather obvious where the democratic values were not coming from.
Democracy literaly means “rule of people”. You need a dictionary if you think Madrid is a democratic state after 1-O.
Nice pack of RT fed lies… Out of those 900 people that were logged in hospitals 2 stayed overnight, 1 was a heartattack and the only thing that died was your objectivity.
Concerning democracy and ignoring the translation from greek, it is defined by 2 key basic notions. The rule of law and the will of the people. Neither was secured in this case. A little study or a google search would have helped you.
A lie is your ABC denial of the afican style repression carried in Catalunya.
“Rule of Law” is all too beautiful by slavery was part of that “rule of law”. Also, said “Rule of Law” should be under people scrutiny. In the end it all comes back to the basics. There is nothing more democratic than allowing people to decide and that is exactly what Madrid does not want (nor does the EU). Now you can call me “populist” and all, but again, a dictionary would be a nice book for you.
A lie is your ABC denial of the african style repression carried in Catalunya.
“Rule of Law” is all too beautiful but slavery was part of that “rule of law”. Also, said “Rule of Law” should be under people scrutiny. In the end it all comes back to the basics. There is nothing more democratic than allowing people to decide and that is exactly what Madrid does not want (nor does the EU). Now you can call me “populist” and all, but again, a dictionary would be a nice book for you.
Rule of law is under people scrutiny. Law makers are voted by the people in legislative elections. That’s the point of them.
Even constitutions can and are changed if there’s eneughf people willing. That’s democracy! Not the minority forcing illegal partial referenda but that matters little. Catalans will be able to do a legitimate vote in the regional elections and define exactly their intentions on a legal and comprehensive way dispite your populist interpretation!
“Law Makers”are voted by people…sometimes. The EC is not. Generalitat is a law making body, voted by the catalans and it did a law for the referendum. All legal and democratic then.
Again, catalans already voted. The majority of the Generalitat is independentist because the catalans decided. Quite different is the fact that you anti-democratics don’t like the catalans choice.
Probably !
Who words questions like this? It’s honestly scary to read.
A Brusselcrat. ;)
No. That’s all a big mess… :(
It will not resolve the crisis, but the government would have done what it’s suppose to do. What happens after that is anybody’s guess.
Debating Europe, never lose your sense of humour.
If you’re not prepared to talk. .the alternatives are less attractive !
Will suspending Catalonia’s autonomy help resolve the crisis?
Don’t be silly.
NO.
The only solution will be to stop this nonsense. It is in the catalan government hand.
I think it may make things worse..
Caos
I would prefer that both governments (spanish and catalan) would resolve all this mess by using dialogue, instead of trying to use an unilateral independence (which is a nonsense) as well as trying to convince people to remain united by using only repressive methods (which is a nonsense as well).
Ironically both governments claim for the need of a dialogue. However, their decisions and their acts show us that neither of them seems to be looking for a real dialogue.
No way… He just want to send a mesasge to Viscaya and Galiza but Catalonia is smarter than Madrid thinks and soon we’ll get some surprises…
where is europe now?
The autonomy would not be suspended, only controled so it comes back to legality.
The absence of EU is a black omen.
the only “crisis” in iberia penisula, is occupation of gibraltar.
A referendum in Gibraltar will definitely show otherwise. Ever spoken to these people?
panos, i occupy one of ur island, i send ma people to that island, and then i do a referedum, what do u think, would u like that?
gibraltar is the problem numero 1 in iberia penisula, not “catalonia”
maybe u know our problems now, you watch TV-Soros propaganda. in iberia the only problem we have is gibraltar.
This guy is swiss. Crazy goat shepherd…
And the ocupation of Olivença as well…
Bernardo Oliveira Santos sim e a occupaçao de olivença, esse assunto é entre os ibericos. olivença é unico territorio portugues occupado e administrado por uma potencia estrangeira. tb ilha terceira que ta occupada pelos EUA desde 1942.
justiça para o caso de olivença nao vai ter ajuda da propaganda mediatica e no entanto olivença é legalmente de portugal, nao tem de ter referendo em olivença, existe tratado que espanha nao se digna a comprir desde 1807.
assunto anti-espanha ta sendo promovido por lobbys obscuros e nao pelas pessoas da catalunha. por isso devemos abster.
http://www.alertadigital.com/2017/10/19/la-injerencia-extranjera-en-la-cuestion-catalana-de-marruecos-a-george-soros-de-israel-a-venezuela/
Ibériocos? Mas que bosta é isso? O raio do suíço é lambe-botas de Madrid está visto. Vá para Madrid baixar as calçinhas…
josé estas a dizer que baixas as calças para bruxelas quando falas na EU. palhaço. povos europeus, existem igual aos povos ibericos. exepto que bruxelas manda em portugal e madrid nao manda em portugal. os teus amigos em bruxelas que causam os problemas e tu engoles o vomito de eles via propaganda dos journalistas por isso teu cerebro ta queimado e andas a fazer propaganda ao Soros e ajudar eles
Da UE? Mas quem é que falou em UE? Eu até sou contra a UE.
1- Não existe povo europeu, existem povos europes.
2- Não existe povo ibéricos hoje em dia e no meu país nunca existiu.
3- Volte para a Suíca que lá é o seu país.
José Bessa da Silva seu Lusofobico volta para o toilette e puxa o autoclismo
Lusofobia nao é bem vindo na minha terra, volta para a casa de banho e puxa o autoclismo e deixa o meu povo Lusitano em paz.
No. This sort of situations are solved by supervised referendum and usually ended up with a split. In the meantime there are pain, suffering, struggle and fight. This is what History shows. Situations like the quite and smooth separation of the former Checzlovaquia are atypical, unfortunately.
Yeah, it is exactly like beating the shit out of children solve their education….
No, betraying people is never an viable option.
I think on the contrary
Not maybe the crisis but the law for sure.
the principle of might is right, is not the best option
Ricard Abad Romeu there are not many legal and legitimate options. Well, reforming the Spanish Constitution.
Ricard Abad Romeu, the law exists exactly to prevent the “might is right” thing
And how an “enclave” will survive outside Europe? An independent Catalonia could never become a member of EU, Spain will never accept that…
Think of Gibraltar
And think of Andorra
Neither norway
At least, not like Gibraltar and Andorra, Catalonia might have a good soccer team…
Ferøe… :-)
Or Maybe Cyprus…More likely.
Franco-Spain must be thrown out of EU.
Catalonia is not a country. Never will be
They beg to differ.
By the way, Romania is not a country. Never will be. Turks will take their land again… ;)
Riiight
think of the romanians who fled from that filthy country to work and live in catalonia, wich is by far, so more rich than your land
Spain*. You just prove how uneducated you are. If you can t have a decent conversation, shut up. Sit down, your fired.
Actually he is right. Your country is poor as hell and many of you went to CATALUNYA to have a better life.
I am pretty sure they went to Spain. I don’t see cata something on the map. Is it in Europe?
No!
freedom for catalonia
rajoy nazis
EU is allergic to referendums either way, if he suspend it civil war looks more favorable.
Ridiculous.
no, it’ll just spark more problems
No. Absolutely not. Spain uses poor methods,which all makes this even difficultier.
Me encanta la foto Iker García Aguirrebeitia
Petrol on the fire maybe
Georgia Mouteveli
Nop. In the short time, no. Rajoy likes to flex his “muscles”. Maybe a compensation mechanism…
No….it will make things worse.There should be a referendum with 85% participants to be valid….the matter is too serious to be taken lightly.
Yes: Catalonia will separate more quickly
Lombardia is NOT italy💪🏻
Dialogue is all-important. Secessionist sentiments will only increase unless the democratic process is seen to be respected. A minority of Catalonians is currently very disaffected and disconnected from central government in Madrid. Madrid needs to listen to Catalonia’s concerns and find a means to reach a compromise which is acceptable to all sides
Direct control is a necessity because of the independentist actions.
New elections will be called in January so a new regional government can be in place.
And what happens if the independentists win again?
Rui Barbosa los golpistas no van a ganar porque van a estar en la cárcel. Y no creo que ganen los independentistas. Los catalanes ya le han visto las orejas al lobo: Fuera de Europa y las empresas marchándose de Cataluña. De hecho la manifestación de hoy no fue ni la mitad de lo acostumbrado y eso que la encabezaba Puigdemont y toda la plana y además es sábado… más claro el agua.
You see Magaly, we portuguese speak portuguese. We speak in english with you spaniards because we do not speak your language, thus, it seems rather stupid when you answer back in castilian.
The independent catalan republic is a fact.
😂😂😂😂
It has never been, it isn’t and will never be.
Margarita G. Soto why? We want to be free. What’s the argument to stay?? Your army? Your king? No. Our people wants to be free. And we will be free soon.
Pere Planas you are free. And I am republican. The argument is that there is not a majority for independence. For starters. And no one retains you. Go to the moon if you like.
Magaly Morales 90% in indyref is not good for you? You prefeer the resuts of the monarchy referendum?… oh wait!
Of course not. It’s an error.
it is time for us European citizens to fight for our flag it is time for us to want United States of Europe
Wtf?? Section 155 of the Spanish constitution doesn’t talks about suspending autonomy! 155 literally says:
Section 155
1. If a Self-governing Community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way that is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain, the Government, after having lodged a complaint with the President of the Self-governing Community and failed to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by the overall majority of the Senate, take all measures necessary to compel the Community to meet said obligations, or to protect the above-mentioned general interest.
2. With a view to implementing the measures provided for in the foregoing paragraph, the Government may issue instructions to all the authorities of the Self-governing Communities.
Sorry man
I support Rajoy
You support rajoy? Why? You are an independent country because the catalans fight in 1640. Don’t forget it.
in my opinion the Colombian dictators of Catalonia are dead I love SPAIN UNITED
Spain has to give back to Portugal OLIVENÇA!!
Go to Madrid and die there you bloody traitor.
Pere Planas well, aren’t we rewriting history now?👻👻👻
If you are really “homo sapiens”, you will understand the future doesn’t belong to “enclaves”, but to superpowers like USA, China, Russia. Europe will count only united and strong, as political, economical and military power. The reverse of the medal is to have, giving the examp!e of Spain, an independent Catalonia, also Castilla, Aragon and so on… Like back in the middle age! What are the chances to compete with the giants? Just like Don Qijote…
dude catalanism is mostly pro-europeanist so what you’ve written just lack of any actual meaning. You are actually defending the unity of Spain, which is a nation-state itself, and by no means a present or future superpower
also, your referring to ‘being homo sapiens’ is extremely rude, and more so as it goes which simplistic reasoning behind
It’s rude and brainless to start a war just for a political game. This “Rajoi” it’s the same kind of guy like Nigel Fucker… How catalanism could be europeanist? If Catalonia will become independent – wich i doubt, will never have place in EU. Spain will never accept that. And EU will never choose Catalonia instead of Spain, without assuming the risk to collapse. But the real tragedy will start after that, when every idiot will start allover the Europe to ask for independence in his yard. From northern Italy, where other idiots ask the same, to Scotland and Northern Ireland, everywhere you will see only conflicts and not a single “homo sapiens”. What I said was that in the future only the giants will matter. USA, China, Russia, Arab Union (somehow they will join forces in the future)… Who will deal with them? Hundreds of Catalonias and Lombardies?!
And things have to be simplistic described and presented as every idiot to understand the danger. It is not a simple local conflict, it’s the seed of another world war…
wait. Whatever Spain will do or cease to do in case of independence, we’re talking of the ambitions and ideals of catalanism, which are clearly europeanist. without going into the game of ‘ifs’ the big chunk of catalanism wants to be independent and apply to membership of the EU. Of course Spain would have to be convinced – but that tells nothing about the europeanism of the independentists. i guess in the end the eu wouldnt leave important economies out of the system and would bargain with spain a reinclusion. the fact that there are other ways, and that independence is probably not the ideal solution anyway, it’s yet another matter
and it’s not the seed of another world war ffs. you’re mixing things up.
Do I mix things?! Isn’t obvious??? Every country in Europe have minorities. Things will go crazy, like in the former Jugoslavia in the 90-ies…
Just like that, even newcomers from the middle east and Asia could ask for independence everywhere in Europe, they are more than cataloonatics…
yes and no
Who do you think will travel to Barcelona to spend money if visa will be needed and have to change euros to… pesos !?!
Your romanian, you already need a visa and to change currency. I just hope Turkey invades your third-worldish country. Then you will understand Catalans.
I don’t need visa. And I don’t need to change currency, sweetheart! I have my own business and have enough money. Regarding my “third worldish” country, I love It ! Our badluck was that Mr. Churchill 70 yrs. ago draw a line on the map that left us outside Europe. And our history stopped. Our king was forced to leave and we had a lot of imbecils as leaders/presidents, just like you want to do right now with your… region, don’t even can say country! I’m sure you are well intended, but you know, the road to hell and the good intentions go damn well together. Romania was under russian occupation, for sure we know how it was. But this is the past, now we all are in the 21-st. century, not in the midlle eve anymore! I travel to Turkey next year. I’ll send them your regards. Long live Catalonia, inside the EU, in peace with all the other spanish people!
I’m not catalan.
Nice bla bla bla, but for someone that lives in a newborn country you should respect the right of others to become free from opression.
If Catalans want to be free that is up to them, they don’t need the judgement of an hypocrite asian.
Oh, and I just wish the EU falls apart as soon as possible. Worthless corrupt institution.
PS: Is Romania in the Schengen Area? No it is not and therefore you need permission to live outside your country. Does Romania uses the Euro? No it does not and therefore you need to change currence when you emmigrate to Catalunya by the thousands to flee from abject poverty.
No. Catalonia has not fully declared independence and is seeking mediators.
No mediation is needed… Cataluña is a region of Spain.
YES, legality needs to be restore. Then in proper time legal elections will be held.
Of course not. May be it gets more violent
I Hope
Eu tenho vergonha de ver portugueses a suportar atitudes dictatoriais. Povo que não aprende com os erros não merece existir.
José Bessa da Silva tem um bom caminho, emigre para a Venezuela, Coreia do Norte, ou um desses sítios que a esquerda tanto gosta. Eu como sou de Direita e portanto não sou como os carrascos de esquerda, acho que pessoas como você merecem existir, mas nos locais próprios.
Pois que é de direita logo se vê. Basta ver o seu amor por corrupção e falta de democracia.
O pior de tudo é o facto de nem sequer ser da direita nacionalista. É uma dessas de direira baixinha, que se vende por um apartamento rasca na costa da caparinha. Essa direita mesquinha e sem valores que destroi Portugal e o vende a retalho a Madrid e a Bruxelas. Assim à Durão Barroso, traidores à pátria.
Não lhe admito, que seja tão mal educado. Acima de tudo contra a corrupção.
What catalan regional goverment has done is a coup d’etat, their “referendum” has been declared illegal by Constitutional Court. Suspending an autonomous government is something foreseen in Spanish Constitution (by the way, the article 155 is copied from German Constitution), so it is perfectly legal. Once the catalan authorities come back to legality, there will be a chance for policy, not before. Otherwise it would mean to accept a blackmail, and this is not acceptable, not only for Spain, but for UE. The current situation is extremly negative for Catalonia, more than 900 companies have left the region, and this must stop asap. Anyway, for those who don’t know too much about this conflict, it is good to remember that Catalonia has a high level of autonomy, with its own goverment, parlament, police, educational and cultural policy, tv and radio chanels in catalan…
“Perfectly legal”… So did the South African apartheid regime say about their constitution. So did the communist regime of China think when it killed 3000-4000 protesting students on Tiananmen in 1989. The same were the thoughts of the central communist regime of Yugoslavia when Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia started to demand freedom. East Timor was a part of Indonesia according to the Indonesian constitution. And so on… Brutal regimes tend to refer to their constitutions when they want to repress the people.
They really need to slow it down and talk.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1707595189312880&id=414809308591481
Sovereignty is an important concept; however, it has been undermined by supranational blocs like the EU. Besides, who can afford sovereignty at the present time? Russia and China, perhaps? North Korea? Is the UK going to reassert its sovereignty post-Brexit? Is Scotland? Then there is the concept of popular sovereignty, which underpins the basis of democratic republics as enshrined in a social contract. Self-determination? Well, that all depends on the definition of “a people”. It’s all very problematic!
The only chance for all of us, like it or not, is to become full time europeans, keeping our national costumes for hollydays and celebrations. In the XXI century, with so many challenges, on a dying planet, small retrograde ideals like this one are… a lux. How about every city to declare independence?! It’s not as simple as a divorce, too many “kids” are involved…
Sorry, me and you, we will never share nationality. We have nothing in common.
Jose, dear, you’re just uppset! I can understand… For sure we cannot have the same nationality, God wanted differently. Wish you all the best.
Sorry, god does not exist and I will still never share nationality with you.
I ddo not wish you all the best because unlike you I am not an hypocrite. The fact is that I couldn’t care less if you get invaded by Turkey (your rightful owners)…
No King yes Spa in Repubblica and automi Catalogna under controllo UE
Or will it lead to a Spanish civil war ? … again
Still here? BREXIT has already happened, no need to worry with matters that don’t concern the UK any more.
Tenha vergonha na cara Paulo.
No chance. Today was Saturday. Puigdemont was supposed to declare independence, headed a demonstration that was less than one third of the expected numbers. Perhaps he realised that and didn’t go ahead.
No way. I’m not going to such an stupid war. I’m leaving EU-Spain-all their motherf****s in my own.
Is that your next mission in Europe after Brexit?
And doing nothing is accepted the unacceptable ! It’s time to move forward for a project where all the European citizens feel happy and one. Go ahead and move your ass !!!
No! It will only making it worse.
Catalonians are not “Spanish”, since there isn’t a Spanish identity in it’s peoples.
Democracy entitles to being able to choose one’s path be that whichever it is.
They just want the possibility to choose between maintaining a connection to Spain or following its own path and Spain isn’t allowing them, as isn’t allowing other people’s to do so.
The EU must have a position on this matter, after all what is more important the EU citizens or EU member states for the EU?
The vast majority of Catalans have Spanish identity. I have no idea in what do you justify what you are saying. Certainly not in facts.
They are a distinct people from the rest that compose present day Spain.
Saying that most Catalans have a Spanish identity is the same as saying the all the peoples in the EU have an European identity and does that makes the peoples in the EU one and the same?
Please Help Catalonia!!
Miguel Garcia Martin se podían haber esmerado un poco más con la foto
Miguel Garcia Martin se podían haber esmerado un poco más con la foto
Miguel Garcia Martin se podían haber esmerado un poco más con la foto
Miguel Garcia Martin se podían haber esmerado un poco más con la foto
Miguel Garcia Martin se podían haber esmerado un poco más con la foto
The “crisis” is never about people seeking for democracy. The crisis stands when oligarchic forces offend people with financial and violent weapons.
Maybe what I’m gonna write is irrelevant to the discussion but anyway. Fact is that Catalans who are christians and share quite a few traditions with spain, served under the spanish rule for more than 500 years but still failed to identify themselves as Spanish. Now I am wondering how can there be quite a few idiots who think that sharia muslims can integrate to the European reality. Just wondering. :-)
500 years only? Rewriting history again?
You’re right. 500 years at least I should say.
yes, completely irrelevant and a bit racist.
Rajoy is Franco. He wants to make a slave state of Catalunya.
We hope so!
No. Wworld problem is politicracy, democracy doesn´t exist, al about politic corruption.
The independence movement was created to protect a group of families that made thousands of millions out of charging a percentage for each regional government contract that they authorised. They are having judicial intervention. They had to dissolve their party and their leader had to resign.
They are just a mob of corrupted regional oligarchs.
No. But the PP doesn’t have anything to lose but to further divide the country and push it to the extreme right. And it seems that all the knots are very well tied, from the King to the PSOE. Paradoxally this is something that, among others, a responsible and democratic catalunyan left should have pondered very well before delivering themselves in the hands of the region’s oligarchy.
No.
It seems that the rulers in Madrid have still not learned the most precious lesson in a successful democracy: Finding a compromise where both sides safe their faces.
What is happening now is a shame!
Asmeniskai galiu tik tiek pagelbeti kuriant gerai finansiskai apmokamas darbo vietas pagal Darbo Kodeksa su oficialiai legaliomis Darbo Sutartimis bei valandiniu tarifiniu atlygiu. Tikiuosi Ispanija su Regionais ir Ispanijos Vyriausybe turi toki Dokumenta kaip Darbo Kodeksas?
What problem we have nowadays is that people are judging everything from human rights and democracy. Laws and orders are all depending on the interpretation of oneself while ignoring the foundation of human and particularly modern societies are built. The constitution is supreme, the state is sovereign, cannot use suppression, deprivation and coercion to explain. Instead, they all serve the collective interest of the people, particularly in a democracy. Democracy is always about party/political competition, if people viewing democracy from a conflicting model,competition would tear communities and countries apart. I cannot see any point in this global era, one single multinational enterprise can have the size larger than hundred of countries, spread of terrorism, financial speculation, drug and human trafficking, environment issue, proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, etc. are all developing in a global scale. With what individuals can confront all these challenges? It is only through collective security our survival can better be secured. So, before the Catalonia people think of our to escalate the conflict, please calculate what they have to lost beforehand and what problems they are creating should be more than solving.
Free Catalonia!
When Catalonia has not been free?
‘Will ignoring the will of the people resolve the crisis’ ??? Welcome to the EU 2017, it ‘will’ be you next.
It is not the will of the people. Those who wanted to vote against independence didn’t turn up because the referendum was illegal and didn’t meet international standards. It was reminiscent of the referendum in Crimea.
Your posts really do sound like carefully thought-out propaganda and your profile looks like one set up exactly for that purpose: no profile photo, nothing personal. A propaganda machine. In my view, this person should be banned from this debate. It is way to obvious what s/he is doing.
By the way, the place he lists as place of residence, Brussels, oddly enough is considered to have the highest concentration of Russian spies.
Let it be independent. Tolerance.
Yes!!!! Catalunya is a free state! Free from fascist Spain!
Make Spain a federal Republic! Then Catalonia can have its own autonomy and Spain can control the area! So everybody can be happy
Yes, it will help. The province will return back to the rule of law and democracy. But this can only work long-term if a legitimate referendum on independence is held once things have cooled off and people start thinking rationally again so as to avoid a knee-jerk reaction after the government’s conduct during the shoddy referendum.
Carles Puigdemont needs to be investigated properly until it is established if he is being paid to destabilise Spain and the EU in service of a third party. It was only a few months ago that an alleged illegal agent for Russia was arrested in Barcelona and the Brits uncovered another one back in 2010. The evidence is that the Russian intelligence service has been active in Spain.
The solution is of course that EU will become a real federal state. And in this federal state there is plenty of room for Catalunya, Scotland, Northern Irland/Ulster, Corsica, Åland Islands, Euskadi, Galiza, Faroe Islands, Skåne, Jämtland, Flandern, Sydtirol… but probably not for fascist Spain.
I don’t really understand why Catalonia wants to be independent, Oxman, although that contention is under dispute, as there hasn’t really been a reliable referendum. I agree though that the EU could eradicate fascist tendencies in countries like Spain, Greece, Italy etc. Each of the areas you are mentioning is a different situation though. I don’t think they should all be equated.
Ever since the declaration of human rights, democracy is equal to anarchy. When no one respect the law, no one respect the authority, we are in a state of anarchy.
Rajoy lost the moment.
Malonu skaityti!