Germany’s allies want it to do more. In 2011, Poland’s then-Foreign Minister, Radosław Sikorski, wrote that he feared German power less than its inactivity. More recently, US President Donald Trump has openly berated German Chancellor Angela Merkel for failing to meet NATO targets on defence spending.
Germany’s military ombudsman has warned the German army is “short of almost everything”. There are a record low number of personnel, not enough planes and tanks, and equipment is almost uniformly outdated and shoddy. Yet the security demands on Germany are increasing; from the bombing campaign against ISIS in Syria, to peacekeeping operations in Mali, to the NATO rapid reaction force in Eastern Europe, to managing the refugee crisis at home.
What do our readers think? We had a comment from Marcel arguing that German military spending is a waste of money. In his view, it would be much better to invest in public services such as healthcare or education budgets. Is he right?
To get a response we spoke to journalist Paul Taylor, who recently authored a report for our sister think tank Friends of Europe on Germany stepping “out of the shadow of its past and [taking] more responsibility for defending Europe and itself”. What would he say?
The logical conclusion of that attitude would be: If you don’t spend anything on defence, then you can still be well-defended. I don’t think most people believe that. From the perspective of other nations: Germany is a rich country, and yet it is a country that is defended by others. From the nuclear umbrella of the Americans, to French operations overseas against the “Islamic state”, etc. Germany cannot be allowed to be a free-rider.
Germany has assumed responsibility in terms of political and economic power. [Former German] President Gauck put this very eloquently at the Munich Security Conference, and this responsibility must be fulfilled. The [Social Democratic Party of Germany] did not win a single vote with their anti-defence campaign. This means that the German public understands that security has a price. I don’t think Germany will increase its defence spending to the [NATO target of] two percent [of GDP], or, at least, it will take a very long time to get there. But if they get to 1.5 or 1.6 percent, that would already be good. Then the question becomes how does Germany spend that money? German money can also be spent through Europe, via a common framework. For example, an “armament fund”, which would not frighten Germany’s neighbours.
Should Germany play a bigger role in European defence? Is Germany a “free rider” on security, and should the German government invest more in its armed forces? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
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They can’t even defend their own borders..
I wasn’t aware we are under attack
Zaggy it’s not that they cant, this is a political decision. Ofcourse Germany can defend it’s borders if it ever decided to do so.
Very true Matej
No
Lol let’s ask shall we XD
That would entail rolling over.
Sure why not. After all they have to get their empire one way or another and they already own the EU.
No! They play too big of a role as is. And they already tried playing a military rule, I mean role, in Europe in the past.
…why not?
If tge EU gets its army it will behave like the USA is behaving today. We will see Fritz, Jaques, Fernando etc. manning some checkpoint in Tehran or whatever the future wars will be. This is no self defence army. This is a army for empire. If you want peace you have to reject this project.
Swiss model. x25 or x50+ depending whether scaling is GDP or population based. Few hundreds of millions of militia, few million of professional armed forces …
yes
They dont even defend their borders. This could be good idea if German army was under Polish command
lets see, in Greece i have spent 21 months of my life in army, because of the constant turkish threat. the minimum should be the same waste of resources and time. but as nobody wants them to have army again, they should pay an annual fee to all the rest.
As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack
No with my taxes, you won’t. No EU army EVER. Get lost you and all corrupt europhiles.
It’s not like Portugal doesn’t have an army… Or corruption ;)
I believed EU was peace, what is this silly idea of an european defence? For what???
Fabian Hoffmann , Portugal has certainly much less corruption than the EU and above all, we do not legalise corruption like the EU does. Also, Portugal is a country and thus it should have an army to protect itself from foreign corrupt and anti-democratic institutions like the EU (which IS NOT a country).
Okay do so José 😂
That day will come. The EU, as a german puppet, will be the reason of another major war in Europe. Mark my words. On that day, don’t blame others when Germany loses it again and becomes devided in several…again. it is your fault. We tried to warn you.
As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack
Fabian Hoffmann , Portugal has certainly much less corruption than the EU and above all, we do not legalize corruption like the EU does, under the name of “lobbying”. Also, Portugal is a country and thus it should have an army to protect itself from foreign corrupt and anti-democratic institutions like the EU (which IS NOT a country), if necessary.
“Το δις εξαμαρτείν, ουκ ανδρός σοφού !” : To make the same mistake again, it’s not proper for a wise man. We Greeks already suffer from the Third German “Attack” (after the World Wars), by economic means this time, and ofcourse we are strongly Against any bigger military involvement or role of the country (Germany) that destroyed us…and never compensate us !
As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack
As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack
As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack
As a German I would prefer a European solutions like an EU Army. A common defence is more cost efficient and Germany could contribute more according to its size and wealth. Moreover as many here already mentioned there are still bad memories of a German military dominance in Europe… So I guess that’s not the best idea… I don’t mind though that Germany send help if needed…
And since it was mentioned here a couple of times… Against which neighbor we should send our army in order to protect our boarders? I wasn’t aware we are under attack
Не
USA army need to end occupation of germany.
And ohters countries… US GO HOME!
canot have “EU” army, if USA army keep occupation of our land.
Your land? You europhiles are insane.
No one needs an “EU Army” because the EU is not a country, on the contrary, it is a useless, corrupt and anti-democratic institution that should be bombed for the crime it did against it’s own member states since 1993.
depois da ditadura de bruxelas acabar, e durante este processo temos que acabar com occupaçao dos EUA que continua na europa. EU é marioneta dos occupadores, os occupadores nao sao directamente os EUA, pois os civis nos EUA tb sao controlados pelo mestre sionista que puxa os cordeis. NATO bombardeo a europa em 1993, NATO é inimigo numero 1 de todos os europeus.
Kosovo é da Serbia para sempre.
Jean Charles Branco , o enimigo nº1 de Portugal é a UE, o Nº2 é a UE e o Nº3 é a “espanha”…
Why not? If its already playing political, Social and Ecoonomic roles? Is there any major Power country that has a clean history? If that was the case USA shouldnt be owning Nuclear Weapons because they already used them against humans in Japan.
Why not?
1- Europe does not need.
2- Europe is not a country.
3- Europe is not the EU.
4- The EU does not need it.
5- The EU is not a country.
6- The EU is not Germany.
7- Germany is not trustworthy.
8- No one asked for it.
But German is Part of Europe right? Is there any way you can talk of EU without mentioning Germany? Germany is the core holding EU together.
Hebron Tutan Khufu , the EU is a useless and corrupt institution made at the immage of germany. Of Couse you can not speak about the EU without speaking of Germany, yet, the EU is still not Germany. Neither Germany nor the EU are trustworthy and thus the answer is still no, and if Germany get’s on it’s hight horse, maybe the world should reconseider to devide it in several again.
Hebron Tutan Khufu , the EU is a useless and corrupt institution made at the immage of Germany. Of course you can not speak about the EU without speaking of Germany, yet, the EU is still not Germany. Neither Germany nor the EU are trustworthy and thus the answer is still no and if Germany get’s on it’s hight horse again, maybe the world should reconsider to devide it again. About the EU, well, let me just add I think the UK did the smart choice. Others will follow!
Well if in your Opinion you dont accept the existance of EU, then we cant engage in a productive debate. i think you have your own issues but if we look at the factors that led to the formation of EU there is no way you could brand it useless. Yes it has its challenges as any other union but it has more postive influence than the few negativity its facing today.
Your wrong, the EU does not have challanges, the EU is a challange.
The reason why the EU was created in 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht was to spread corruption and benefit Germany over all others. So, yes, prettry much useless, in fact, harmful. The worst mistake my country ever did was to sign the Maastricht Treaty and I can only hope we follow the steps of our good olf british friends.
Your wrong, the EU does not have challanges, the EU is a challange.
The reason why the EU was created in 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht was to spread corruption and benefit Germany over all others. So, yes, prettry much useless, in fact, harmful. The worst mistake my country ever did was to sign the Maastricht Treaty and I can only hope we follow the steps of our good old british friends.
Hebron TutanKhufu
Don’t mind Jose… He’s just some nationalist troll
Ja Fabian i realise he is One of those right wing Nationalists who believe in divisions. One problem they don’t know is that the divisions” nationalism” they agitate for will effect their countries more. Look what is happening in Spain now, the Catalans want a break away, he is talking of British only to forget their will no more strong UK if Scotland, Wales, Ireland also claim their independence/ break away. It will spread to France. Any one who believes that small countries can perform better with bigger countries like China, USA, Russia should keep on dreaming. You have more power and say if you sit on any table with these big players as EU other than when you come as mere Portugal. No one wants to know even what Portugal says on world matters why? Bse they have no muscle power to influence anything alone, neither do Spain or other EU countries.
Can you talk me about the HDI of Russia, China or USA? I don’t seenothing between side and population of a country and the HDI! Curiously, the best HDI in Europe aren’t in EU!
Lads, my country has 900 years. Your “no one cares” is as useless as the EU, in fact, the EU brought poverty, crisis, loss of power and authoritarianism. To pount this out is to be a lucid person, not a nationalist.
Lads, my country has 900 years. Your “no one cares” is as useless as the EU, in fact, the EU brought poverty, crisis, loss of power and authoritarianism. To point this out is to be a lucid person, not a nationalist.
You’ve got certainly more to share José with a Portuguese-speaking country(Brazil, Mozambique…) than with a german migrant, for sure!
You’ve got certainly more to share José with a Portuguese-speaking country(Brazil, Mozambique…) than with a german migrant, for sure! With over 240 millions in the world, it’ll better for you than to speak european, or american, like you want!
The German army has committed too many crimes on other nations and it cannot be trusted.
What about the american army and Israël’s army? If it can’t be trusted, why should we have the same destiny as them?
A BIG YES.
Tira esse escudo. Judas! Traidor. Vendido.
Tira esse escudo. Judas! Traidor! Vendido!
We kicked their asses 70 years ago and we could do it again…every nation should rule their own land!
Nice, then why is EU allowing things my people never voted for?
Same here…i know what you mean. Because you and me are not independent
Same here…
We should end this joke
Simply by leaving EU, like UK, let the others to be agree when they can’t be agree with us!
Me and my wife never knew our grandfathers because of ww2. Memories are still to painful. I would prefer germans keep their butt in Germany. In spielhosen, not military uniformes…
We need a european army, but the point is taht we have only one single army in Europe, the french one. But this army can’t do everything by herself… for other european countries. So yes, germany as well as other european people schould increase their participation to a global european defence! Of course!
We need a european army, but the point is taht we have only one single army in Europe, the french one. But this army can’t do everything by herself… for other european countries. So yes, germany as well as other european people schould increase their participation to a global european defence! Of course!
No! Only the same role as all the other states!
Everyone needs to be involve and UE needs to have an independent army.
No it does not. What the EU need is to explode itself.
No it does not. What the EU needs is to explode itself.
José Bessa da Silva Dude just move over here to Trumpistan. Better fit for you it seems
I believed Europe was peace….
Mitsos Daniel , sorry lad. I love my country to much. I would never trade it for yours and I’m certainly not willing to allow a corrupt, anti-democratic, capitalist sh…t like the EU to have any saying about it or my future. PS: If you don’t like Trump, why the hell are you living in his country instead of being in your asian country?
Just keep your racism to yourself José
And Rémi Martin to answer your questions. Yes the EU is about peace. Still we have around 30 national armies. So a EU army wouldn’t mean there is more military but rather less because we would need less… Right now the eu army would be the biggest or second biggest in the world..
Furthermore a EU army would mean the end of national armies in Europe and a war in Europe would be even less possible! And no José your war isn’t coming!!!
Lybie, Syrie, Afghanistan, Mali, Irak and I forget more! I don’t see any peace when you’re fighting outthere from Europe!
Fabian, you are delusional if you think the EU has any other future if it keep ignoring the people does not want it.
Oh, and by the way, the EU has no army yet. That is exactly the point of this useless discussion.
Fabian, you are delusional if you think the EU has any other future if it keeps ignoring that people does not want it.
Oh, and by the way, the EU has no army yet. That is exactly the point of this useless discussion.
DEFENSE of what ???? Who is going to attack/invade Europe ??? Please dont tell us the “Russians are coming” that nonsense is old and a joke .. Europe has no enemies, there is no point in military its all about SPENDING BILLIONS on weapons and armies that are not needed, fear is CREATED by the same people who sell all the weapons, its a ginat scam.
Europe has enemies : these who don’t want to see a democratic and independant europe
Sylvain Duret , start by destroying the EU then. There is nothing more anti-democratic and imperialistic than the EU this days. PS: Germany is not trutsworthy…
Sylvain Duret what like the jihadist groups, that the EU supports ? Name one country that is going to march on Europe and invade ? And PLEASE do not name Russia, cause that is a joke.
EU is peace, they said…
Once again??? Two times wasn’t enough???
The reality of an EU army has already been decided by the EU’s inner circle- JCJ is only its executor!
It should alarm EU critiques! Hiding behind Europe (CoE 47) but meaning EU (27) is deliberate ambiguous to capture the last major competence from its members in its formally “economic” block!
Nobody wants another war in Europe, nor an EU 27 army to enforce the Lisbon treaty in Euroland! It would need 27 new referenda.
Any western global defense system can only be achieved belonging to & strengthening NATO and inviting the rest of the 47 CoE members- not by isolating the EU Members from NATO.
The enigmatic description referring to a “European defense (force)”- while meaning an EU army- is EU’s typical coercion strategy- “step by step”! To offer these “democratic discussions” here is all smoke & mirror- only to “harmonize” the minds of 500 mio EU voters.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/
No it should not, obviously.
WHAT? ???WE HAVE NO BORDERS WHAT WE NEED ARMY FOR??????
Germany has tried and failed many times throughout history.
Don’t see the point.
European defence? What’s that? For what? I believed Europe was peace!
Yes the EU is about peace. Still we have around 30 national armies. So a EU army wouldn’t mean there is more military but rather less because we would need less… Right now the eu army would be the biggest or second biggest in the world..
Furthermore a EU army would mean the end of national armies in Europe and a war in Europe would be even less possible! And no José your war isn’t coming!!!
A world without armies would be nice but we aren’t there yet… Maybe one day
“a EU army would mean the end of national armies in Europe and a war in Europe would be even less possible!”, sure? I wonder what would happened if China, NK or another land(why not USA?) would deceide to attack EU? I wouldn’t give my blood for an imaginary land, people who doesn’t exist! You’re a fool!
Local militias for defensive purposes mingling with the local population would be more suitable for detecting and handling terrorism and for maintening order within our borders. We do not want an other empire and new wars…
What for?
What for?
What else is EU?
What else is EU?
Eles que não coloquem os pés neste país!
FRANCE
Yes!
German Empire in the making. Who has the men with guns has the control over others.
Money is enough, don’t need guns! Give me the power of the money’s creation, it’ll be equal for me which laws you’re going to vote…
Rémi, you’re wrong
Wake up, we’re in a economical war, each country is trying to defend his own interests, there’s no union in this EU; if there should be one, can you tell me a common point between all the members? I don’t see nothing, history, culture, language, nothing! You’ve got the same ideas as a guy called Adolf in the 40’s in Germoney! Unite Europe, your construction is racist!
YES!
once again most of european governments are headed by cowards, and Germany the only one with politicians wanting to rule the right way…
Lamento meu caro brasileiro, mas o meu país não precisa de tropas alemãs para nada. Os alemães que não levantem muito a bola ou acabarão como em 1945, divididos por um muro.
With a politician like merkel….????Thats jewish bitch is not the right way dude
My heart says yes but my mind says no.
My heart says yes but my mind says no.
My mind yes, my heart no !
My heart says yes but my mind says no.
My heart says yes but my mind says no.
My heart says yes but my mind says no.
My heart says yes but my mind says no.
For sure.
Νο!!!!!!!
No thanks
What germans have to do is to stop paying more money to the jewish for the second world war.
Germany should pay more money BUT:
No increase in soldiers etc.
No increase in weapons producers
Germany has a history, a history we don’t want to repeat!
NEVER AGAIN they should stay without guns they are not trustworthy these germans
You’re realising that we already have the biggest army in the EU?
So your statement is kinda nonsense…
:D how much you spent annually on weapons? Do you even know?
Biggest army inEU? It’s joke or not? Where are your submarines and the rest? Thanks Uncle Sam to occupe you since over 72 years, all is said!
No, let fucking Frenchy great again instead. Merkel realms in Europe is obviously cancer.
Not so crazy about Germany “taking the leading role” as in most continental affairs, but rather like to see them coming with their fair share (2%) on the table. Defence and security are not for free or “by default”.
I say who else…but then history thought us never again.
Try once !!!
Instead another this country should protect eu border in Poland !!!
What’s on offer? Is there a European defence concept which is different from NATO strategies? The military tasks are shifting and increasingly unarmed. Maybe an army is not the best answer for tasks such as the rescue of refugees, defending against cyber-attacks and even guaranteeing security during peace-keeping operations and anti-terrorist measures. There already exists a non-military European rapid reaction force. Based on their competences more tasks could be taken over by their specialists without all the problems the involvement of armed forces can cause.
Should Europe’s core state be able to defend it’s own backyard ?
I’m not Germany’s backyard. Careful with what you wish my gypcy friend.
Like ww2?
Should not Germany have some restrictions after ww2?!?! Don’t you think that’s why UK leaves EU?
Because of an German attack? Oh I thought to get back control and other nonsense…
Nonsense is to keep beliving is con artists like yourself and the rest of the europhiles. You only brought poverty, crime, corruption and now you even want to bring war upon us.
Nonsense is to keep beliving in con artists like yourself and the rest of the europhiles. You only brought poverty, crime, corruption and now you even want to bring war upon us.
I think that after ww2, Germany have some restrictions regarding the military troops and weapons. I know that also the Constitution of the German Federation had some statements in this respect… Hitler’s spirit is still alive there. ESPECIALLY NOW, WHEN FASCISTS ARE AGAIN IN THE BUNDESTAG… Brrrr!!!
I think that after ww2, Germany have some restrictions regarding the military troops and weapons. I know that also the Constitution of the German Federation had some statements in this respect… Hitler’s spirit is still alive there, even sleepy. ESPECIALLY NOW, WHEN FASCISTS ARE AGAIN IN THE BUNDESTAG… Brrrr!!!
All the European militaries are becoming quite puny and irrelevant, except for very small missions. Germany can spend a bit more, but I doubt this would affect the long-term trend.
As it is now, Germany as no legitimicy to rule us all, without a UE parliament, a constitution or people to vote for representatives. And History is very present in our minds. So even if is a rich country (and we know why) capable of support one army, I don´t want to see it taking the leading role in defense. Never again, please.
Rémi Martin cuz germany is rich country. And germany could easily help the EU with the stronger army. And Germany compliance with the NATO rules.The spending for army can’t be lower than 2% of GDP
I think many here misunderstand the debate…it says should Germany play a bigger role in European defence…you can be for or against that… However the question was not: Shall Germany invade all it’s neighbors…
Too late, Germoney is giving this feeling by ruling EU, nothing else!
I know and I don’t like this neither… But you can’t compare that with the World wars…
When you ask someone if Germany should step up, you are exactly asking if they want to be invaded by it. Germany is not a trustworthy nation and that is why it should never be allowed to have an army, let alone to use it and enlarge it.
Fabian, same thing, maybe just with less casualties… The idea of EU was great, at the begining, but when you see how it works and it can’t be change, noone has more hope in it, it’s just a desillusion! The day EU will collapse, and it’ll come, Germoney will have seriously social problems, I’m working there, I know what I’m talking about, my collegues said it themselves…
Curiously, the europeists have got the same dream as the Nazis, unite Europe… Maybe they took the middle place this time, no?
I thought EU was peace, don’t why it needs a defence….
help for NATO not EU
Should Germany play a bigger role in European defence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98lz1VI_8e0
Restructure of NATO, Trump, will leave the need for an EU army. However, is that in the interests of the EU citizen? Do you want to pay through the nose for another take over of Europe by Germany? If you think yes, then be ready for conscription, which includes women, Israeli style right across each EU country. And it will be run by Germans. Germany likes power.
The UK is leaving this union and will not be ready to save the continent yet again.
Then it’d be time to send Uncle Sam back…
Then, the right question is: are the western and northern states of the EU interested in spending money to develop military faciities in the east and south? To mobilize and relocate troops there. I don’t think that the Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Sea are the enemies, do they?!
Do you need to invent an enemy yourself to exist?
Potential enemies are those from the east and south, don’t they? Iran and Rusia, we like it or not. I personally think Rusia should be a friend of Europe. Rusia was a partner , more than enemy, for Europe during the last 3 centuries. But, after the invasion of the eastern Ucraine and the presence of the red army in eastern Moldavia, there still is a military stress. Still the major risk is the religious war, muslims are rising (Iran, even Turkey…), so we have to keep forces in the south (Greece, Italy) for just in case.
It just seems that the commemorationn of 100 years after the end of ww1, rise some hard feelings for the losing countries…
History doesn’t never repeat itself, it stutters only… I don’t need an enemy, the war is economical today, the others wars are made outthere from Europe, it isn’t better! For the rest, I won’t give my blood for an imaginary country or an imaginary people, Europe is peace, they said, Europe doesn’t need a defence if it isn’t able to keep peace on her borders.
There are some logical cracks in your statement. First of all, yes – the modern war is more subtle, beginning with soft phases: cybernetic attacks, economical strategies, hybrid war in one sentence, but the other part will not accept such a defeat! Will counterstrike with full arsenal, if the economic and financial loss is substantial. We love to think that war is something from “a galaxy far far away”, but war is already in Europe, from London to Stockholm, from Munich to Barcelona, from Nice to Brussels… Don’t forget! It’s not the total war, but still a war. Our armies are involved right now in war, even still outside our teritory (Afganistan, Syria, Iraq…). Europe, like it or not, is our country, wich is in danger because from many point of vues (economical and climatically mostly) it is a place with some magnetism for others with less chances to survive on medium and long term (50-100 years) in the not so distant future. If we don’t work together, not a single european nation will resist. It’s a new kind of cruciade, not necessarily conected with our religion.
“Europe is our country”, sorry, I’m speaking french, not european! Give me just a common point between all the members in your racist organisation! In the 40’s, a guy called Adolf in Germaney, had the same idea of a united Europe, I don’t really believe in it! You don’y unite several peoples with a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t never vote for!
With such a point of vue the Martins will be a lost specie in less than a century. Or, they will “adapt” and speak magrebian-arab, wear burka and “bend the knee” on o small carpet three times a day. Best wishes, Rehm ibn Mar Thain
Don’t worry for us little euronazi, you just show us your real face by this sentence! Happy not to share the same destiny with a land of thieves!
What?! If you all would be “thieves” like me, Europe could be the Heaven on Earth… Blow away, you stupid snails and mould eater!
Wish you a nice flight with Allah Akbar Airlines..
You’re just sucking our taxes, nothing else, the day we’ll leave this useless union, you’ll just find your real place, a third-world nation in Europe, nothing else!
Romania gives more money than takes from EU, because of our impotent politicians. Most of us we spend money on vacations in your countries, many romanians are living in your countries and pay taxes for your gouverments… I think you benefit more from our resources than ourselves. Our doctors and nurses take care of your elders (after we have spent a lot of money to educate them), our men build your cities, you even fuck our girls, forced to prostitute themselves just for living… You are still crying that gipsyies are beggers and theves, telling they are romanian, wich is not true… Even so, neither the gypsies do not put bombs and do not kill poor people, women and children with trucks… Romania and France are sister countries. We are (still) proud of that. You should too! If you count all the romanians with major contribution to french art, culture and science, you will find an important number, From Traian Vuia to Henry Coanda, from Brancusi to Eugen Ionesco… Writers, doctors, artists. We are proud of them. You should too!
…..NO !….. They have Old Bad Record…!
No way! Not the Germans!
NO !!!
“Defence spending” acts as a deterrent, hence the NATO obligation.
Yes, Germany should play a bigger role and meet its obligations towards its partners. It has the most seats in the European Parliament due to having the biggest population, likewise, it should spend the most money on defence.
What is this posting comments too quickly nonsense?
I think it is in the intrest of the entire world that Germany has as little military as possible, just in case.
No….Germany should be excluded from everything that has to do with European defense. WWII is too recent for them to be allowed differently
Abordări de mare actualitate și interes.
Marcel’s way of thinking is silly, but excusable for someone who’s used to living in a peaceful Europe. Yes, let’s invest our resources in public health and other non-military issues. This way, one day, we’ll be surprised defenseless if something happens. Oh, wait, we already have. The Ukraine crisis caught Europe by surprise. Suddenly, with a rising Russian military power and Trump putting under question NATO’s article V we suddenly realized Europeans can’t defend themselves. How silly of us. Yet another legacy of the Cold War, when we used to have Americans do that part of the job for us. But what will happen when they won’t be around ?
Yes, because Germany has financial, economical and military potential for it. Russia changed its policy and our Eastern borders are not sure. Russian invasion is also possible.
They own the EU so own the EU’s defence. Remember that when Brussels wants to send ‘you’ to war, a German war. I wonder how that will turn out.
bullshit…who sent the soldiers to iraq..wasnt that USA and GB? the EU military efforts were always dominated by france and GB. dont try to shift blame for failed wars
Europe is peace!😂😂😂😂
Their role is good enough right now.
Yeah, let them have a bigger army, what can go wrong.
Better NOT
The European project is rapidly turning into a sham
Was it once done for the peoples?
Without citizen representation, free speech, freedom from censorship and illegal surveillance, recognition of the rights of the individual and subsidiarity – what values does the EU represent? All of the above must be safeguarded if the European Project is to continue to have meaning
You don’t unite peoples with a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t vote for!
Yes…we want protection against Turkey…
Yes.But not alone.We need professional european soldiers. For instance we can start with combined rapid response divisions composed of romanian, french, polish, german and italian soldiers.
Name them the ‘Freiwillige’ ?
They are firemen . Don’t mistake them with soldiers with combat experience.
Europe is peace, they said…
Yes.But if we are under attack what do we do?
Make war, but without us, this play of alliances made us go to war twice last century!
No. Europe needs a united military using one language…
Called NATO, everything is said!
Germans unleashed two world wars, bear responsibility for the deaths of millions of people, therefore they can not be trusted.
No xause they are puppies Of merdica
defense creates wars
I believed Europe is peace, they said…
ARE WE EUROPE?
OR GERMANY?
A slave from the ECB!
I sense scare mongering…thinking back about Adolf… past
Germany has come a long way from those times… and no longer is a belligerent nation…
if it was down to me I would scrap all of the military arsenals in the world…
and , if some like North Korea…Iran…and now Russia threat the world future it’ s only thanks to mr.cowboy Donald who has recently struck a arm deal with the Saudis worth 100blns$$$$
how about this for peace in the world.
Yes in cooperation with the rest of EU military powers such as France, Greece etc
This play of alliances made us go to war twice last century, didn’t we learn nothing?
Rémi the EU has to protect its boarders and have a strong voice internationally. In the east Mediterranean Sea the EU has discovered huge gas/oil reserves. Already trouble making and violent nations such as the Turks who never respect international law and country boarders are ready to attack and take control of the EUs wealth! Who is going to protect all this if the EU has no military power??
Strong voice internationally? Nice joke, just a puppet of Uncle Sam, nothing else, to shut the voice of 28 countries at the same time, I wouldn’t had done better! EU’s wealth??? From which country please? Did you once believe we want to give our life for your problem with the Turks? No, please… You don’t simply unite peoples with a flag, a common currency and laws they didn’t vote for, it’s a bit more complicated.
Rémi obviously you are not a European but whatever! Nobody asked you to give your life as you probably have no ethics other than nationalism in your little pity place you live! So get lost !
It should stop completely selling weapons and close all weapon factories.
I think Germany does not need all new planes and tanks, and equipment . they just need a little bit of support from there allies.
Germany is economic powerhoue because they don’t spend on military …
Military spending is a slippery slope..once you start then theres no stopping.
Yes, it should.
ARE WE EUROPEANS? OR GERMANS EUROPEAN? I WANT PLACE IN EUROPE
Who needs armies when you have a virus that closes the world down
I used to say YES… But apparently i dont think they are trustworthy..
Mediterranean sea, border of E. U is violated on daily basis and the germans still support the turks..
Countries that are not european, israel, Egypt LNA of Libya responded and germans are still arguing with themselves.
Talks..
vIt would help a lot if Germany reduced its business with Russia, such as Nordstream 2.
It would also help if Germany were to put Erdoğan in his place.
Currently, Germany is NOT investing in the mutual defence, BUT is doing business with ill-intended regimes.
The current mess in our vecinity is of German making.
Here we go again
They already played few times, enough for now :D
No not Germany, all E.U. countries as 1 army.
All European countries should play their equal role in European defence. Why is everyone pushing for Germany to play the first role everywhere and why the above question? Don’t you see what could happen? Germany will defend only her interests that won’t work.
I do not really get this narrative of the underfunded and badly equipped German military. If you look at the absolute numbers by SIPRI it is always somewhere in the top 10 fundingwise and it is the fifth biggest exporter of weapons. It is said to be badly managed but funding cannot be the problem.
Germany have more and better ways to spend money.
If Germany’s army is underfunded and badly equipped they are doing that on purpose. Either they are trying to avoid going to fight other countries resource wars or they are waiting to invest in an EU army.
Germany already played a big role in Europe’s defense 80 years ago. It didn’t work well for Europe.
Germany is almost in the center of EU and EU supposedly has borders ex Greek borders are EU borders such as Portugal borders are also EU borders etc. So instead of selling to the border-lands of EU billions of dollars / euros military equipment, why don’t just give it to protect its OWN borders meaning EU BORDERS?? This question is non essential, just for fun in this way of thinking
Nope. Europe altogether. There are no better countries or citizens.
Germany isn’t allowed to build up militarily. Stupid post really
sanctions after ww2
Nah, military’s a waste of money and the cause of many international problems we face nowadays.
Yes Germany shou stop selling weapons to Turkey the time that Turkey is threatening European union
Humanity definitely needs its latest resources to be able to survive a little longer on earth. So we need to start thinking about what it is the most wise way to use them before the end and not unnecessarily waste our last beads.
As a huge exporting nation Germany should be better able to guard and defend their sealanes. As a landpower it should be better able to defend against threats from the east or southern instability which have dire consequences for Germany and the EU. It is more than necessary the Germans start living up to their role in Europe as a security partner.
Germany’s contribution should be based on capacity not on % of GDP. The new German Navy ships for instance are extraordinary expensive and large, but aren’t as capable as ships of similar size and cost. That is partly due to the German procurement system and partly bc of German laws regarding living conditions aboard a ship. Even if the Germans spend, it isn’t spent wisely.
Why? Are they interested in creating another reih?
you misspelled Reich
I knew it. I do not speak German. But I knew that the message would get across. Thank you for correcting!
This is coming from the USA .. right ???
i would look to the UK and ask yourself what use that army was in a real emergency like covid,they waste money on nuclear ,shadowing Russian aircraft and boats ,spend fortunes whilst children of that kingdom are dying,so i would say Germany has a good balance and should maybe just make sure the right wing extremes are better controlled within its forces,i would say money is better spent on civil protection forces as in Italy or Spain, although there again a lot of the false accounting at comune levels needs to be better controlled
only to figth corrupted politicians
they havent change, who can trust them?
Let me remind you the last time Germany played a bigger role in European defence. WW1 & WW2.
All of European Union Member States must in order to take full sovereignty which now we still lack
No! Don’t worry about it Germany, rest of us will handle it. You just relax…
Yes !
Yes.
It cannot be an United and strong Europe without Germany as a real player
Yes…start off by protecting the people of Poland & Hungary from their disgusting extremist governments
Absolutely. The most peaceful nation now. Absolutely yes.
No. If you need arguments, read some 20th century history. We don’t need more of that shit in the 21st!
… besides, who’d be the “enemy” to fight against?
The evil north/south/west/east/minorities/within/outside/above/below?
so you say, we’d stand a chance? No way!
Doing It Right: The Future of Humanitarian Intervention
Well, just because there is nothing to fight against now doesn’t mean there will never be.
German corrupted plutocracy must be destroyed for the benefit of European citizens (Germans included) and Peace in the World
Only as an industry
No, history always repeats itself. There should be a strong and powerful European army.
explain why? No is not an argument
because it would give the brussels bureaucrats a military force to play with. Up to now, all they have is VETO power and sanctions if any of the free independent european nations disagree with a decision. What would they do with an army? Why do they need an army? Who are going to invade/defend? Russia? Why have NATO if thats the case? Who wants this dumbass idea of an “European super power” ? Why have it? How about peacful cooperation between free independent european nations?
makes sense , please always give at least a few arguments, otherwise you’ll get easily dismissed
This is pure bullshit. Of course it should. Fuckin propaganda…. Not every German is nazi, did you know?
Feels like 1938 again
They did it twice last century..should I remember you guys how it ended ? European countries fought each other for CENTURIES and the EU is only about MONEY..look at Greece, sovereign debt crisis and covid19 now…Were Italy or Spain helped? No. The EU is a fraud I’m not buying it, is already a failed experiment starting with the euro and once sovereign nations with different economies stripped of their monetary policy.
EU army , not tomorrow or in the coming years but NOW!
that is a bad idea
without a strong EU army the negotiation power of EU isn’t that credible…
Plus is useful for all EU countries in terms of security.
to negotiate what?
global issues for example.
Or problems with turkey!
To have an EU army we need a lot more than an EU army. We need an EU foreign policy, a functioning EU government, and an EU language that we all agree to learn and speak from an early age so no one responds to an SOS by asking “What are you sinking about?” ;)
what you just said is a limitation especially the lenguage….
As a pacifist, I do not think, that we need that extensive defense programs.
The ressources would better be used for education and health-care.
Armies today are not only used in warfare, many are used whenever there is a natural disaster or for peace keeping missions. So yes they need a modern, well equipped army. Perhaps one more focused on this kind of training though.
in Germany, we have catastrophies-intervention-forces … Technisches Hilfswerk … and most certainly, they won’t need arms, grenades, bombs or fighter jets.
Helicopters are marvellous for SARS.
And I’d be fully behind equipping these.
But’s that’s another task we are talking about.
quip Firefighters
equip catastrophy-intervention-forces
equip ambulances
I’m 100% behind that.
But what would they need side-arms, grenade-lauchners or sniperrifles for?
peace keeping missions is another subject, but you won’t need that much, either.
alas, many of these missions are blocked at the UN for many reasons (q.v. Syria-crisis) :'(
it still helps to have a large, well trained centrally controlled force capable of many different tasks under the same command and used to working together. For example fire fighting transport enginering and medical.
also for example the natural disaster in Haiti. Most countries sent specialist units from their armies, depending on what was needed.
jupp, so do we, the THW (Catastrophy Intervention Dpt) … doesn’t need army for that.
they are still under the same command of our government…?
Germany is almost in the center of EU and EU supposedly has borders ex Greek borders are EU borders such as Portugal borders are also EU borders etc. So instead of selling to the border-lands of EU billions of dollars / euros military equipment, why don’t just give it to protect its OWN borders meaning EU BORDERS?? This question is non essential, just for fun in this way of thinking
even with EU borders.
Pray, who’d be the evil adversary?
The biggest detergent of war is a strong army. I ll give you the current example of Greece and Turkey. Without too much analytics who is right or wrong (irrelevant to your question) we have a country who sents war ships(Turkey) inside another country ‘s sea borders. The Germans condemned it, the Americans condemned it, the French also, Israel also. IF the Greeks didn’t have a strong/equal navy, all the talking and words of the world would not stop Turkey from invating a EU country
so what you say is, that the conbined forces if the european union do not suffice to extinguish the thousands of years of conflict in Aegaeis?
I don’t quite understand what you are asking
if something bad happens? How do you defend yourself? With doctors and books?
exactly without a strong Army your country is basically fucked, it’s vital to have that to negotiate and solve issue.
Only with an army you can guarantee peace otherwise you are always at risk and in a weak position.
you have naighboors like Greece has Mr pacifist?
… worse!
of course !
But if you lived in a small Greek island close to Turkey and watching military overflights everyday you would not feel so safe …
sure, most of us in Europe are pacifists. But some eastern neighbours (…) are NOT.
sure why bot, we use tanks to fix overflowing rivers, and gums to silence the people auffering. What do are you even talking about? In our 3rd Millenium would like to see us past warfare and invest in more state by state internal or why not international response forces for aforementioned situations
Military and humanitarian cooperation in air operations in Haiti …
I don’t say they don’t do good stuff … but they for sure won’t need sidearms, rifles, grenadelaunchers, fighters and bombers to SAR or humanitarian operations ;-)
besides, there are other “enemies” to fight:
the basic training for most armies is sidearms etc. It’s not bad that all recruits learn discipline and have their stamina increased by training. It is also good that they learn basic survival methods. They then move on and specialize.
there definitely are other enemies to fight. Unfortunately though sometimes one is not given a choice.
discipline – you learn that at home.
knowledge at home and in school.
survival at the scouts,
stamina at sports
So, what do firefighters, the people at catastrophy-intervention-squads, park-rangers etc.?
They have all these abilities too, not necessity for military schools.
I don’t deny that military is useful, but we’re already overstocked.
Just look at the original question, please.
Even more overstocked in Europe…
“Each such decision requires answering three crucial questions.”
And the most important questions:
– to what end?
– to which purpose?
– what would the local people say?
-> is the way, that’s thrust upon them the way, they want?
Im afraid im a passifist..realy i do not think any ountry should get more troups and weapons..some countries should not have so many troups and arms..give more money to your people ..tax breaks ..grants etc…just have a minimal armey in each country..to help the police or the country during bad weather or to do peace keeping missions ..simular to ireland..try to remain neutral..so important..please ..and thanks :D
sure, most of us in Europe are pacifists. But some eastern neighbours (…) are NOT.
help your police ..not your armey..and give the rest to people in need in your own country..stay neutral..peacfull..so important..enjoy your day..thank you
easy to say that, if your surrounding neighbors are France, the UK, the Faroe Islands and Iceland. Unfortunately, the situation is slightly different in the southeast. An underfunded military isn’t an option when the neighbors are Turkey, Libya and the Middle East.
try being a strategically located country like Greece. Then tell me to stop funding for the protection of our people. Germany is 2nd arms seller in Europe. Why are they selling weapons to Muslim nations? We are EU? Haha. Big joke. Germany thinks only for herself and her economy while pretending to be a SDG government helping bring peace. Blabla. Why doesn’t Germany make better policy and stop selling to others who are not Europe’s allies?
That is the problem we independent a lot in Germany or similar economic strength and rest of the national don’t develop their economic . Some say that Euro dose not allow but if this is the case then we need to fix this
Of course, why not? . Since couple of centuries Germany has been a economical, cultural and military “Powerhouse”. It should together with other “powerhouses” like france and others, a leading role in european defence. Germany should be forced to take this role, inspite of majority of germans would oppose the idea.
No. Last two times the germans have developed their military’s capabilities it’s not ended well for the people of Europe. Extra police and border forces certainly but law officers and not soldiers.
Germany has already the 2nd largest military in the EU with 185,000 active (2020) increasing to 203,000 by 2025 and over 100,000 in reserve/civilian roles. Their military budget annually is $50bn
This is compares equally with the UKs military spend of £40bn
Germany is quietly building up its military capabilities and through civilian quasi military organisations such as their THW who provide technical support to overseas aid and their emergency services provides ideal military style training services and equipment.
Ignore at your peril. Whose to say that Germany the engineering centre for the EU & their incredible innovative engineering performance during WW2 73yrs ago doesn’t already have nuclear capabilities. I would put good money on the fact they do. Germany’s DNA is not a peaceful one
Only 80 of our 250 main battle Tanks are combate ready Face with tears of joy
EU needs a EU army with nuclear and ballistic capability. What Germany or any other single EU member does is irrelevant.