What is it Putin really wants? Some would argue he just wants Russia to be left alone within its sphere of influence (possibly including Ukraine and parts of the Baltics). Others believe he aims to return Russia to its place as a global superpower, and halt (or even reverse) the post-Cold War expansion of NATO.
Whatever he wants, he’ll find it easier to achieve if Europe and the United States actively distrust one another, and are sufficiently distracted by internal squabbles within the alliance and fractious domestic politics at home. From that perspective, the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States seems to have been a gift. But has Putin been taking advantage of a wider situation, or has he had a hand in creating the chaos himself?
This, of course, is the subject of an ongoing high-profile investigation in America. In January 2017, the US intelligence community published a report asserting that Russian President Vladimir Putin had ordered operations aimed at disrupting and sabotaging the 2016 US presidential elections. Was his aim to drive a wedge between the US and Europe?
We had a comment sent in from Laker, who believes that the Western alliance is already fracturing under internal divisions. So, has Vladimir Putin succeeded?
To get a response, we spoke to James Kirchick is an American reporter, foreign correspondent, columnist, and author of The End of Europe: Dictators, Demagogues, and the Coming Dark Age. Here’s what he had to say:
I think it’s too early to tell. In some regards, we’ve seen the Europeans come closer together in response to the American election and in response to Donald Trump, who’s the most anti-European president the United States has ever had; who has no respect nor understanding of the transatlantic alliance; who is the most pro-Russian president the United States has ever had. I think these are the reasons why Putin wanted him to win.
I also believe that there’s been a realisation on the part of many European governments that they do need to wake up to the threat of Russia, hybrid warfare, propaganda and disinformation. I also think that, here in the United States, despite what the President has said in his public statements, Trump has not had much impact on the policies of the administration being carried out by other elements of the federal bureaucracy – such as the Defense Department, the State Department, or the US Congress, which has just passed major sanctions on Russia. It’s been difficult for Trump, single-handed, to change US policy on these fundamental questions. The United States is not going to pull out of NATO, and we’ve seen Montenegro just join NATO. So, I think it’s too early to tell, but I do think the transatlantic relationship is certainly at risk.
Next up, we had a comment from Daniel, who believes it doesn’t really matter that Trump is a pro-Russian US President, he has been unable to improve relations with Russia because Congress and the media are tying his hands. In that sense, has Putin’s support for Trump backfired spectacularly? Are the forces lined up against Moscow now even more united because of Russian meddling?
I think you have to understand the real reason why the Russians supported Trump was not for the immediate effects on sanctions policy, on Ukraine, on US foreign policy, or on any of these sort of individual issues. I think the main reason Putin wanted Trump to win was to disrupt US domestic politics…
In the United States right now we have political tension the like of which I haven’t seen in my lifetime. We have political division, and people living in different silos. Trump is the most divisive American president we’ve had in a generation, and he is radicalising the population; he is radicalising the Left opposition, and he’s radicalising the Right. I think this is the reason why the Russian’s wanted Trump to win.
It was primarily to weaken America domestically, to have us fight each other domestically so that we’re not a united people and we don’t have a coherent foreign policy in the world. You’ve heard people, like Jim Mattis, who’s the Secretary of Defense. He was asked recently what is the greatest threat to America’s national security, and he said it wasn’t North Korea or Russia. It was actually partisan division within the United States. I think Trump’s the perfect fomenter of this. This is why Russia wanted him to win. So, I think in that sense [Putin] has been incredibly successful.
Finally, we had a comment from Thomas suggesting that the success of Russian influence on European and US political process shows the weakness of our democracies, and it is more due to the fact that our political leaders cannot effectively counter Russian arguments. Is he right? How much of this is Putin creating a situation himself, and how much is it him exploiting already-existing divisions?
I think he raises a good point. I actually think it’s more the second. We obsess over Russian influence and meddling to our peril. If we think this is purely a problem created by the Russians, then we’re going to fail, because all of these issues are inherent to our societies. We own them. These are our problems. It’s merely that Russia is exploiting them and looking at cleavages within society and making them worse. So, [Russia] is more of an intensifier than the cause of the problem.
If you’re interested in the issues raised by this debate, you can also take part in Debating Security Plus, a global online brainstorm organised by our partner think-tank, Friends of Europe. Debating Security Plus will bring together senior international participants from the military, government and multilateral institutions along with voices from NGOs and civil society, business and industry, the media, think tanks and academia. Register here to take part!
Has Putin succeeded in splitting the Western alliance? Or are we too obsessed with “Russian meddling”? Is Moscow simply exploiting existing tensions and divisions? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
Yes I Agree.
Worse, money is going to both far right and far left from various sources in USA, Russia and Saudi Arabia, which is also starting to form splits internally in some European countries. Europe needs to stand as one and cut of the money and propaganda from USA, Russia and Saudi Arabia, once and for all.
As long as Germany is disarmed, partitiond and pays reparations for Poland it’s a good idea.
As long as Germany is disarmed, partitioned and pays reparations for Poland it’s a good idea.
wrong question. Again.
Martial industry flourished in the land of the hungry
No, it is the perpetual war-loving western debt mongers that are failing to keep Eurasia from uniting (Stratfor’s ultimate goal).
I agree Sweet thanks so much
Thanks so much for that<3
Totally, completely and successfully
VIVA RUSIA VIVA IL POPOLO DI RUSSIA!!!
DOWN WITH YOUR RUSSIA!
Tamara Jegorov ABOLISH MONARCHY!!!
Viva il popolo…? Si. Perche sono gente come altri, pero su questo sogetto leggere un italiano scrivendo “Viva Russia” é come sentire una delle vittime di un abuso che lei non e stata abusata d’abbastanza…
The Western Alliance is obsolet because times have changed and our enemy is not Russia. On the contrary, the EU alliance with USA cause more problems then benefits.
“times have changed”?! Where is the change? Communists are still on power in Russia.
Russia is not the URSS and the times have changed. Thanks to the proUSA policy the EU is losing milions in exports to Russia….but the politicians don’t care if their industry and agriculture can’t sell and go bankrup….they keep their high wages anyway.
I wouldnt give russia that too much credit for it. Its mainly the west themselves if you ask me.
No, Brussels has.
How you fucking idiot ? They don’t have any lever on the military policies and the alliance :D
Yes, but he had a lot of help from wanton and reckless Germany and France!
I think rather Cold War 2.0 hasn’t really taken off because:
1) US/EU, unlike Russia, have no vital interest in eastern Ukraine.
2) US/EU (their peoples, not their neoconned elites) have no reason to promote civil war in Syria, destabilize the Middle East, and thus impose another wave of “migrants” on Western Europe.
So, there just isn’t any reason for conflict with Moscow, except for the efforts of the entrenched, war-mongering National Security State, Military-Industrial Complex, and Israel Lobby. The peoples have no interest in this. Furthermore, Western elites also have countervailing economic interests to *not* escalate conflict with Russia too much ($€). Hence the globalist Macron’s surprisingly very reasonable statements on Syria and Russia..
All of the “Russia conspiracy theories” being promoted by the Western media are very amusing and show their shock and need to find a scapegoat for their weakening grip on power.
In an ideal world, America, Europe, and Russia would of course be allies, so as to offset the effects of our very real decline. Instead, as in the Twentieth Century, our elites are choosing to *again* divide the European world through internal conflict, to the benefit only to the rising non-European world and a few profiteers.
I agree with the fact that the transatlantic relationship is certainly at risk. On the one hand America has a lot of problems but, on the other hand, I believe that all of these “Russia conspiracy theories” are fake… Let’s see…
What he wants is a 21st century equivalent of the Soviet Union and its european colonial empire.
Thanks so much for that:D
He did after all state that he thought the demise of the Soviet Union was the biggest mistake of the 20th century.
I can only cite: “No, Brussels has.” Putin is completely innocent while EU elite in Brussel is the real evildoer in that sense.
Russia may not be the ultimate goal, but the main piece of a complex puzzle that takes down China. The real threat to the UK-US banking domination of the world is anything that undermines the Bretton Woods protocol what established the US dollar as the trade settlement currency and gives the US the ability to print money without inflation, and giving it to banks for free. Other countries must buy dollars to trade between countries. NSR and OBOR puts that domination at risk. The US got spoiled by being able to build an economy by just dealing money and not having to add value or make things. It was easier to trade in money than build things. Besides, trading only money, that was free, it cut out the pesky expense of paying labor to make things. That is the long term threat the US sees
Everyone says invasions are for oil and resources but that really is not the case in the last 20 years, it has to eliminate leaders or whole economies which bucked the dollar trade settlement. Libya, Afghanistan , Iraq, Syria and Russia, just as examples. The New Silk Road does not intend to use the Dollar. That is the real threat.
Get a map out of the One Belt One Road countries from Asia to Europe and Middle East, and put pins in the all the counties the US has been doing regime change or bombed into the stone age and they represent all essential points to block the Eurasia trade routes. Why beefing up the war in Afghanistan suddenly when it was on low simmer for a long time. Look where US bases there could prevent from accessing trade. We are re-invading Afghanistan because of the ability to choke off larger portions of the NSR. The number of troops added there is a tell tale sign, it is not enough for any war, but is enough to block trade. If we (West) still had industries and production, this would not be needed. If we still needed labor for manufacturing, 1/2 the country would not be entering poverty. (Stan Jacox para-quote)
No, EU was the one doing that job. While atlanticist countries, like the UK, Portugal, Ireland, Denmark, etc, were able to oppose to continentalist countries like Germany, Spain, France or Italy things were going fine. Brexit was a blow in this balance and that is why atlanticist countries will eventually have no other choice other than follow the UK. Controled by continentalists, the EU will be an ever more corrupt, imperialistic and undemocratic institution…
So true Jose.
But that was because the Russians infiltrated in EU.
Well, in Europe are too many left wing extremists!
Putin surely wants Hungary, and orban is giving us to him.
After 25 years od capitalism and a still poor Albania and being treated as a second class Citizen in the early European Comunity tto become without its people choise to a European UNION i think that the Western have just shown to the simple people that this European Elite care more to start Wars against people which had Stabilised Countries as Gadafi of Assad just for the sake of Bunch of dollars more for their deep pockets. SO CAN SOMEONE TELL ME DO I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THIS EUROPE WHICH HAVE SHOWN SO OFTEN THEIR MIDDLE FINGER TO ITS PEOPLE which left the Eadt Blok out of love for the so called West Values.I havent seen in 25 years of democratic albania not a single major employment project from europe.So for me I just dont care for Rusia or Putin which in thr end is bringing up its Nation on all fields l.God Bless USA as for this EU wr on the East are tired of.They cant say DO WHAT WE SAY AND DONT DO WHAT WE DO.
Instead of blaming Putin, think about all the mistakes done by the European politicians! Looking for scapegoats it is the typical behavior of losers.
The perfect answer!!!! I agree completely!
No, the EU has done that for him by meddling in Ukraine and the refugee crisis and meddling in the middle east, to cause a refugee crisis..
No Putin didn’t do it the corrupt EU manage to do it all on their own
Yup Sweet !
The EU was enough to split Europe.
The Europe has peace since 70 years. As long as France and Germany are convinced this peace must last, we will have peace. Putin can try as much as he likes, but the Eastern countries will not want him, so they stick to the Nato unfortunatly take the EU money but are deconstructive with the EU. he EU must definitely be reformed and it will be easier when the Brexiteers are out.
Eu is fucked by merchel with all the terrorists and economic migrants fooding in
Russia is safer than eu they dont let in muslims … they aren’t so braindead
So yeah say ty to the democrats for ruining eu
No Trump is doing a fine job all on his own, that’s why Putin got him elected
I think tha general consensus is that EU has done that?
Has Merkel succed split Europe? YES!!!
“Has Putin succeeded” – blaming all of your problems on outside forces
No trump did iT.
E’ semplice: vuole ricreare l’URSS e prendere il posto dell’America sull’Europa…….farci diventare paesi satelliti dell’URSS………
not afraid of Putinas russia.
not afraid of Putinas russia.
no, but Germany is working hard at it
I agree, that far not all the problems are because of Russia, not the Brexit, and not Trupm, but things get to the direction of pan-Eurasian integration, EU-China and Russia as Eastern partner of China. Austerities, definitely not the Russian thing, are major course of turbulent changes around the globe, and Russia profits from this, as it worse to do so.
Germany, wrong asked question
Actually the opposite . Russia , Brexit, Trump, are bringing us together.
He is playing with that Dickhead named Trump You see here that Putin is in politics very intelligent and that says enough over the bad situation insite the USA so long this 4 years are not done it will be like this.The only thing that Trump does is build the democratic party stronger with his play.
Atlantic alliance is anachronistic. Eurasia is the future.. and the USA know it.. that’s why are so aggressive around the world
Eurasia le futur ? Les Russes détestent les jaunes …..
From Lisbon to Vladivostock was the Putin proposition to a new economic space, the USA block it.
Only Asia – and not “ecomomic”, but only space – Space from Lisbon to Vladivostock.
Poutine n’ a pas beaucoup de chances.
Rússia is a western country!
Up to the Urals, anyway.
U.s.a. nd U.k. are a tricky landlord to deal with. Their rulerz deserve life jail: crimes against humanity
Of course since they call home their fleetz, … forever
All this chit chat and not a shred of evidence, I’m bored of this rubbish!
Blaming Putin for Trump’s win is the biggest cover-up of how and why Trump won. Trump is a diversion to keep people from the real tragedy of the few mega rich families, corporate monopolies’ CEOs and Deep State blocking America from turning to Bernie Sanders and European socialism.
You hit the nail on the head.
I think that the third comment is the right one, these problems are inherent to our societies, i believe in the breaking of the transatlantic alliance, the disolution of NATO in favor of a european defence force but i think these things would strengthen the “West” rather than weaken it, right now the west is undeniably in decline and Asia, Africa and to a lesser extent Latin America are on the rise, i believe the key to this decline is the weakness of the European Union and the US and these issues are directly related, the problem with the US-EU partnership is the same problem the EU would have right now if Russia joined, the US is too overpowering, i think the election of trump has also opened the eyes of the world to a big problem: the fact that the US has been the primary world power since ww2 and a lesser extent since the disolution of the Soviet Union has made it incredibly arrogant, and degenerate, obesity, promiscuity, etc . the list is endless and this is in my opinion partly because the US does not have the cultural and moral background of Europe, it has always been a place convicted people go to start a new life, where organizations like the mormons which are rejected elsewhere go, the land of oportunities, has unfortunatly also been the land of opportunities for the evil and the wicked, this mentality of nationality and being superior to the rest of the world (similar to Nazi germany before WW2) combined with its military and economic assets makes the US incredibly unstable and dangerous to global peace, as it is a country which owes its economic succes largely to conflict and this is something inherent in US society, on the other side of the Ocean, the EU finds itself in a crucial spot, up untill now because of its weakening after world war 2 and the pressure of the cold war it has had no choice but to follow the US and this has been good in the sense that the US has taken over many foreign policy, military and economic roles that where usually done by the individual European countries, but at the beggining of this new century, the 21st century, the EU must make a choice, either it stays with the US and remains part of the increasingly Isolates concept of west, dominated by US decisions, or it cuts itself lose, and stands on its own 2 feet, this is a harsh action, which wont be easy and will bring many dangers, and in the beggining it may indeed seem the “west” is falling, the russians are having what they want, etc… But if this first period can be overcome and the European Union unite more and centralize, gain its own military and economic capabilities independent of the US, suddenly instead of the US and its NATO servants you have two superpowers representing theWest, the US and canada, australia, britan, and the EU, and this will be much more powerful, and frankly, because of european culture, much more competent, the problem with the US relationship is that it holds the EU back, member states feel they dont need to spend militarily or act in world security issues like the middle east because NATO (90% US) is handling things, so i hope the break intensifies, to those afraid of russia i call bullshit, we live in the nuclear age and there is 0 possibility of an offensive russian attack unless its military assets are threatened, like in sevastopol, i find it fustrating people act as if russia is the one taking the offensive when clearly the EU and the US have been provoking it by expanding NATO, etc… Russia has plenty of internal problems it needs to focus on and wants nothing more than peace so it can conduct events like next years FIFA world cup which will improve its internal culture and boost and diversify its economy… The real threat to the west long term is not russia but China, India, the middle east and a surging Africa, and to face them we need a strong EU capable of acting independently from the US and even of opposing it openly if it does something stupid, thats my opinion, Long live the EU! I hope for an European Defence force with greater military capabilities than the US, capable of acting under UN mandate in international conflicts like syria, integrated by people recruited from the military of all member states, i hope of an eastern europe better integrated in the EU with the same standards of living in rumania as in germany, that hungary is known for its art and culture and not for its prostitutes, and i believe with hard work and good will from France (vive la Force! Vive la France) Germany, Italy, Spain, Benelux and Scandinavia this is possible
Not really, but he’s working hard (he needs just keeping the doubt alive ;) ).
EUSSR is dying and sooner is better.
Wow, this forum is crowded with fake accounts and fake news from.the propaganda machine of Putin. The office in St Petersburg where hundreds have a daily job 24/7 with creating false accounts and fake news to infiltrate the Internet and try to influance public opinion in Europe and the US. This forum is fake…
USA is new nacis of world! USA must die for free world!
They are marching in Europe too.
Online he is said to be conservative from 1999. Definitely he cannot support so called Western alliance or globalism. As a matter of fact Islamic world fears him.
Putin is right
No, Trump did that all of his own. Putin just sees an opportunity.
1.can you show me this report wich you are talking about that shows that Putin himself and hackers IN Russia infuenced the 2016 elections. 2.can you prove that the elections in the Krim were not democratic and that the people DID NOT vote for Russian annexation.3. Do you have any real facts wich you want to share with us. 4.i know why the media picks on Russia.
Not sure who hasn’t gotten the memo yet, bu the US intelligence community published an official report on that months ago. The declassified version is available for anybody to download. There is no excuse for being ill-informed.
This report shows no facts, all it says is likely this, moderate that, perhaps this, maybe that. This Russian story is being played out for well over half a year now and Comey testified there was NO collusion between Trump and Putin. You talk about ill informed, there is no information in the report Max.
We were debating Europe, the author of the article suggests that being anti EU is being anti European, You have no idea what the EU is doing to their citizens by flooding them with millions of migrants, not suitable, unemployable people. We need a president like Trump and Putin who want no more regimechanges in the middle east that flood us with migrants, Europe is Burning right now, over a thousand people killed by terrorism , over a thousand women and girls raped dude. The only one who gets it is Trump, it seems that mostly US citizens are ill informed Max.
If your strength comes from the heart and the truth, you will be invincible. If it only comes from money and weapons, then you will be weak. This is all I can say.
Has Putin succeeded in splitting the Western alliance?
This question is outright propaganda. Putin is not interested in the so called ‘Western alliance,’ one way or another. Russia is enough to take care of. It’s a big and diverse country.
As a side bar, the only alliance the West has, is an alliance of the top money men, who are in it as winner takes all.
Time the crap was cut and serious politics was the name of the game.
Western countries always act like the saviour,in fact,they destroyed many countries in the name of liberty and democracy.
europeans want the USA army out of europe !!!
Not yet, but, It is posibile
No, Brussels has, Putin just benefited from the crazed lust to create a united states of Europe by a few EU lunatics.
Naahhh !!! We didn’t needed his help on that!
these is an rotten alliance, should have been terminated or rewritten several years ago
There was no such alliance I. The first place.
I guess it was perceived by many there was even those who oppose such right now. Big question is who caused it and Putin had minimal role in it. Failure of left, lefty politicians and lefty supporters did.
After new evidence it is clear that DNC and Hillary clinton colluded with Russia to stop Trump. Also URANIUM ONE deal which is far more dangerous. This is ignorant smear campain against Truml designed to protect real traitors… democrats. America cannot be defeated from outdide so radical groups are used to destroy it from inside… like antifa fascists, BLM and others
You are kidding! You don’t believe a word yourself!
Hillary even admited some of this recently…after denying it. She sponsored fake Trump dossier, from a company that did it with help of Russians. Uranium One scandal leads to her and Obama … 20% of Americans Uranium sold to Russia in record time. Her foundation got more than 100 mil from Russians. Deal was pushed trough. Russians bought ads on BLM site. Antifa is led by Comunist Marxists. It all connects
Can you give your sources for us to verify?
After denying this for a long time, Hillary admitted funding the fake Russia dossier http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-defends-funding-anti-trump-dossier-late/story?id=50879784
Even lying CNN cowered some of it. You know its bad when MSM admits left is implicated in something http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/media/facebook-black-lives-matter-targeting/index.html
More new info is being found in to Uranium One deal. Investigations have started. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4994516/Senate-probes-Russian-money-funneled-Clinton-Foundation.html
So then you agree with the statement of the article? The sources you cite make clear that Russia is playing both sides, pitting them against each other.
Not both sides. Russia is using leftist groups… and it was going on for a while. They call them “usefull idiots” and use them to undermine western civilisation. Russia already devastated EU with them. EU is run by Russias useful idiots https://youtu.be/K4kHiUAjTvQ
to be fair juncker macron and merkel are doing better job at it. putin is just useful foreign enemy at this point.
Pff ! ridicol! The alliance with west europe start splitting by west with american smile! Smart People! sic!
Not really, Trump is not able to get anything done, he’s a bad investment and this little stunt will backfire once he’s removed from office due to impeachment or after 4 years.
Impeachment? On what grounds. And wait until next elections, if he runs, he will win. And I don’t even like the guy, nor did I vote for him.
Tony Muñiz If you haven’t noticed his election staff just got arrested, one guy carried a wire, rest will sing like birds to reduce the sentence. Most likely will be impeached on some tax fraud like his pals.
Wasnt the investigation about Russians hacking the election? Whatever happened to that?
Jonas Ramaut who cares, they also got Al Capone for tax evasion. You got an issue with that? Aldo Clinton got impeached fir a different reason than the original inquiry.
Unlimited immigrant flow – Putin to blame
Oppression of local governments – Putin to blame
Forcing member states to ignore will of their people – Putin to blame
Most interesting thing that Putin just need to take cold beer, sit and relax watching how Europe will eat itself. He don’t need to lift a finger, EP will do everything itself…
yes of course everything Putin only needs to “relax” (and promoting tens of thousands hacker attacks, intervene in the American election, contributing to the populist far right movements like Front National and occupy Crimea).
David Isaksson Sure… Cause there is no possibility people could be blamed for their own actions… And most of what you said are rumors without evidence… So…
not yet but he is getting there
It is not over yet
What a ridiculous piece of propaganda right in the title!
German unification was always going to sway the Union. Not out of any dislike towards Germany but a unified Germany put a castrated France in second fiddle and even with the passing of time, not all Europeans, especially those on the wealthier Western side, have felt at ease with The Germans steering the ship. And let’s face it, a united Germany has massively raked in the glory and profited from being the top dog in the order. So why would they want it to flop? The system has been good for them. Its the “free movement” of people which has created the skiff not because the shifting of human labour is bad but because of the fear it invokes in people. A post war apologetic Germany has dealt with this subject better than most but as time passes no one in the wealthier Northern states wants the German chancellor telling them how to behave. Individual States still think for themselves and while one would like to think that everyone is in the hunt for the deer if you can find a rabbit at least you’ll have a meal for yourself.
Long live Putin
This is fake news.
you are fake news
A joke is what this is. If anyone is to blame it is the EU.
USA. Europe was obliged by the us to make sancions on Russia. Despicable wars makers
What alliance?!!! …blame it others instead of being responsible for our mistakes.
EUROPE IS A SLAVE OF WILLS
“Western alliance” is really german IV Reich.
Eu try to play game after games, syria Libya Ukraine Yugoslavia , Kosovo , with Turkey , than with Russia , Russia is not like any other nation to be on the table , so the Eu or the USA can play games with it,
Personally I don’t like Russia but the true is there , Because Eu and USA has become the back garden of Israel , Eu and USA including Israel cannot play games anymore with Russia ,
That’s why I would like to see always Russia strong as never before.
The world today is a tragic comedy, as it always been…
if not we hope to do it we will help him
LOL what a load of RUBBISH .. Balme yourself Europe, Europe is a laughing joke, its run by short sighted powerless idiots who couldnt run a hot dog stand properly, why is that Russias fault ?? Pathetic, for once take responsibility.
Wow… that looks like Stalin propaganda…
Lolll putin again lolll
The West has always been split. Nonsense.
No, the US has.
How good it is to have someone to put a blame on for the our own stupidity
the western alliance did not need Putin to destroy itself….
No, nor does he want to. Any threats to the Alliance are brought about through political infighting and an inability to focus on the real adversarial challenges while pandering to special interests
Warmonkering alliance is trying to use Putin (RUSSIA) as fake enemy to justify illegal projects that create huge super profits for their deep pockets.They are loosing the batlle because people are more clever than them
Brussels has succeeded to split it
The disloyalty and irreverence of our leaders has done more to drive people away from the center. Look at Merkel handled the migrant crisis. Putin cannot create faults. He can only exploit animosity which is already there.
Germany succeeded that…! Turned the “E.U.” to a “German Yard” tending to Lobotomize culturally all the other Peoples of member-states to their ‘German high-ethical standards and views”.
Nope, Brussels has.
the fact the most people put a blame on brussels or merkel proves that yes, putin has succeeded splitting the west…
Was not too hard: sooo many stupid leaders (who get position.. – well, not by their abilities
At least they feel somethin goes wrong
EU bruxells dictature is a problem in europe.
from portugal to russia we all europeans. USA army occupation in europe need to end. usa go home
Trump is splitting the western alliance.
By supplying Ukraine with the arms it needs, killing Russians in Syria & asking European Nations to pay what they have promised ? You Socialists have a real problem with reality comrade.
If putin can split the western alliance then it wasn’t that strong in the first place.
Well, an alliance based on shared values starts to fail when one of the partners isn’t remotely aware of what ‘liberalism’ or ‘Enlightenment’ means. It also starts to fail when one partner follows their gut, rather than facts.
The Americans have. They had everything after the fall of the wall. Russia was wide open. If they had invested heavily in their own ecomomy and promoted the Integration with Russia and east europe instead of maintaining costly and inefficient interventions on their own a la typical lone star texas cowboy, in Asia, Africa and the Middle east, which mostly underperformed and didnt bring a solution to underlying historic regional tensions, i believe the global economic crisis of the west could have been avoided in my humble opinion. Looking back at the last years Obama acted like a schyzophrenic. Honestly. Atleast Trump is fairly open about being crazy and answers to that with a “so what?” atitude. “Grab them by the pussy” etc. Obama got the noble peace prize. And now hes in Kenya promoting womens rights. Amd i think thats great. But between these two points he killed not only bin laden (good? Except body thrown from a helicopter into the sea?) he got Gaddafi killed (good? But look at all the migrants for europe?) he failed to provide security or stability forfor Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. And Any kind of American stabilization of Africa has been meager after black hawk down. Putin was always supported by the USA. Untill the Ukraine and Syria situation happened it was ok. Georgia was minor as was Czechnia.
America had at one point to make the decision to really be Europes friend instead of only business partners. And somewhere after the 90s they made the choice.”America first” and everything after is the result of this. Im not saying they did it with bad intentions. Its just i think for the Americans its impossible to think of a european union thats more succesful than them. All the sadder. If Europe where self sufficient and there was no fear of conflict with Russia (a Nato-Russia deescalation agreement?) then USA could use all those resources at home. Or in Africa, Asia, the middle east, south america, etc.
Instead as i see it the American establishment is is using reverse psychology to have the Trump hate affect Putin after a relatively succesful world cup (no bomb.attacks. no major international incidents).
The sanctions against Russia remain. I truly believe the best way to get Russian money for MH170, have it stabilize Ukraine, accept western investigations in Russian territory of MH170, Skripal (scandalous the Russian embassy cant speak to them) the Assad regime (chemical weapons, etc.) election interference. Etc.
Is to to lift those sanctions and make peace with Russia. Define the border clearly at Belarus and Ukraine and allow all others to apply for EU (not Nato) membership if they meet the conditions (which lets be frank are really high. The balkans will take atleast 10 years) the European Union has 500 million inhabitants with diferent languages and cultures to answer too. I think it is one of the most Genius political creations of the last 100 years. And i really think we should stop blaming Russia. Which lost everything when the wall fell and 28 years later is hosting the Fifa 2018 (a swiss organization.) showing that the western mentality Does! Work.
Its funny even. We used to criticize soviet crackdown on religion. But now Russians are all becoming christians. Then they turn to europe and what do they see? LGBHT or whatever. Weak and divided. Decadent.
Idk. My politician 2018 is Donald Tusk
“The only helping hand is at the end of your arm”
Or has Pres. Trump also done the same thing? It is time Europe woke up and decided who their friends are.
The antidemocratic EU has no friends.
Said by the one who get paid by the EU. How hypocrite can someone be 🙄
US and China both cannot be trusted Europe has to make itself stronger rather than relying on US.
Damn right, Pankaj
Trump is trying to improve relations with a country that occupies and then annexes its neighbours’ territories. This by itself is pretty scary! Besides, nobody mentions that Russia reneged on its own obligation to guarantee Ukrainian territorial integrity, signed in 1994. I can understand that Russia is undemocratic and oppressive, but I really find it unacceptable that it’s trying to extend its sphere of influence by agressive means in Eastern Europe.
Yeah, just like that ! The only thing russians are more advanced than americans is the brainwashing WHICH FUCKING SEEMS AMAZINGLY ADVANCED NOWADAYS ! ! !
No. Economy did. Plus I don’t think many were true allies
I hope, not !
The West has been destroyed by the eu drunken junker and ngos
Merkel did that.
No but the idiotic EU & it’s dream of a European empire have, without NATO you are finished.
The idea/possibilty of Imperium Evropa died arround 1945.
The eu is just a concoction of nation states under a extensive democratic plutocracy which has socalled “technocrats” filling their pockets
calling it a “empire” is giving such organisation to much credit.
Idiotic it sure isnt either. Its just infrastructure aimed at keeping control over the global geo-political situation.
Like NATO is Europa but Europa isnt nato, nor can it survive without Europa (which it needs to keep existing).
You could say NATO is a empire and the States is a influential Vassal
Klaus – Utter nonsense, all the EU treaties have have one goal, to create a federal United states of Europe controlled by Brussels/ Paris & Berlin & it was your unelected Emperor Juncker’s predecessor who name it the ‘ EU Empire’, so your ridiculous claim is easily debunked, please at least read the dam treaties that control your live before commenting on them.
Name one thing the peoples of the Nations trapped in the idiotic EU could not have attained on their own, just one.
Who should we believe, you or the only people who truly matter in your antidemocratic EU.
One thing? …no, thats why we call it a union. And it should be even more a union to make it better. But we all know you and your 23 % Brexiteer fellows wants to isolate the UK even more of the rest of the world.
Erik Verbrugge So all you have is more pro EU fanatical lies ?what do you actually think ‘Ever closer Union’ means comrade ?
As for your childish insult all I can say is ….. Wubba Lubba dub-dub Comrade lol
Goodbye antidemocratic EU, hello free world 8|
….Yes, thats all you can say, i know.
Looks like you Brexiteers can only talk about migration. Maybe you should give this a read which explain why leaving is not such a good idea. Oh, you dont read the Guardian? Well, do some effort for once, i’m sure you’re able to.
Erik The Guardian ??? lol
Morning comrade, how goes your war against democracy ? 8|
…did you read it?
It is a editorial peice by Hugo Dixon the director of ‘infacts’ who are funded by … wait for it…. wait for it ….. Brussels, Ta Da !
I know his works of fiction very well so need to read it, apart from that only Socialists, communists, actors & lovvies read the Guardian comrade..
Ivan you know the one argument that always breaks brexit apart in my mind is when you abandon the european union your abandoning west europe (ok, bye britain, well manage) which sucks after all the joint ventures in the last years but ok we can manage, but your also abandoning east europe. Britain was one of the main anti-communist forces. Countless comunist agents where murdered by m15 or whatever the james bond agency is called. Countless people died of hunger under western sanctions regime. All for the greater good supposedly, and we got what we wanted! The USSR collapsed and the EU/Nato anexxed those territories.
But Nato only covers military and these countries have a huge catching up to do. It does work (compare poland and ukraine 30 years ago and now) but it wil stil take many years of hard work. but now you british are saying “let them sort themselves out”. Then.why kill people all these years?!?! Why let the USSR collapse?!??
Your also saying f*ck it to the irish peace process.
And now you english are saying f*ck your franco/german empire. (When its 27 member states, 19 in the Eurozone) and f*ck developing east europe. We will make our own commonwealth empire with blackjack, hookers and no imigramts
You fail to see most commonwealth nations dont care about the UK, and your reducing yourself to a servant of the son who has outgrown you (the USA) when in the EU you are.one of if not the most important nations.
You also want other nations to leave! Countries like hungary, baltic states, austria, etc.
Who wont be anything in the next 50 years geopolitically against China, India, the USA (unlike the UK which can atleast be a medium level player) outside a group format.
You and Farage should know this but you dont care. England is al that matters. f*ck the scots amd f*ck the Irish
Sad how far egoism amd short sightedness can bring you
Hmm.. so i suppose you didn’t read it. I’m not surprised.
What makes you think Infacts is funded by Brussels?
Socialists, communists, actors and lovvies read the Guardian? Oh pls, stop wanking and act normal with propper facts.
Erik The fact they state who funds them in thie …. just read your insult … you really are a foul mouthed EU fanatic aren’t you, please stop spamming my posts with your nonsense 8|
Just show me the prove Infacts is funded by Brussels
I see no reason to engage with a fanatic who has no interest with the truth so…. goodbye comrade troll, goodbye………………… wubba lubba dub dub ! 8|
To be honest, i mean this, i’m quite suprised you’re ending up like this. I though you are more the argumenting kinda guy.
First you talk about Infacts is funded by Brussels without any prove, i’m asking you to provide then it stops. Complaining about insults while you are the one who’s shouting ‘socialists, communists, nazi’s, fanatics’ over and over all the time. Just argumenting with propper facts, thats all what i’m asking.
…and call me the one who has no interest with the truth.
Erik You still here Comrade Troll ?
And no, i’m no EU fanatic. A lot of people like me in Europe are sceptic to the EU. We all know the EU is far from perfect. We have to change it to be more flexibele/efficient to counter the challenges for tomorrow (especially with Trump and Xi Jinping). But just calling us fanatics is more easy, i know.
..and now you’re going to block me.
Erik Wow, even for a commie you are very annoying. 8|
What makes you think i’m a commie or a troll? Just calling names is easy. Am i annoying? Maybe for you. Facts facts, my friend, and this conversation will be interesting, i’m sure.
Whatever you say comrade, whatever you say 8|
Yeah whatever? Just say Infacts is funded by Brussels without any prove, calling names all the time and no arguments whatoever? ..and ending this with whatever you say? .. i’m sure you can do more than just this. There must be more, cos Brexit is not just something whatever for the future of the UK as well as for the EU.
Is migration really the only reason for you Brexiteers? I’m still not able to beleave this is just the only reason, but you guys keep mention migration and the rest is just whatever.
To reply on your statement that Infacts is funded by Brussels and the fact you’re not able to prove it, here a explanation from Infacts website.
In addition to the financial contributions by the editors, InFacts is funded by donations. The editorial board has agreed the following policy:
No individual contribution will account for more than 20% of total financial contributionsInFacts will not knowingly take money from political parties or official institutionsThe names of all donors who give more than £500 in any calendar year will be published on the InFacts website
Its just typical for you guys ala Farage to spread fake news and the 23 % Brexiteers, Sun reading fools will take it like nothing.
Erik Morning comrade troll, how goes your war against democracy ?
Why dont you continue our discussion instead of repeating the same rubbish?
Troll troll? ..i know you’re upset. The truth is not always easy to accept
Erik Because you are a commie troll comrade 8|
Again, what makes you think i’m a communist? Do i call you a far right hypocrite nazi? No, i’m not like that. I prefer a propper discussion based on facts without calling eachother names and spreading fake news. But you’re not able to such thing. You’re just pathetic, and you know it.
Not yet, but he’s working hard on it. A strong western alliance which will never include Russia on one side and a perverted military growing China on the other side create a potential difficult situation for him. Worse part is that he has to lead also the interests of a very rich and powerful corrupted elite.
Putin said very clear, it is impossible to put economical penalities to a such big country with such manny resources.
In fact Russia is also an european country with large roots in Occident Royality and manny occidental culture background.
If I could be a bad Putin, I should let Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova to acces at EU and I should have the 5-th Russian people in EU ?!?!
About Trump. I don’t believe that he wants splite EU, but he realised that USA need change some from economical point of view toate reduce the country debt. First of course need to reduce the contributions to NATO, but also need new american industry.
This is avaible also for Romanian If we want to apropriate at the same standard of life like Germany, or France.
If we still failed our industry, If we allways import industrial products from development EU countries, will never happen.
The EU will split if will keep such big diference of incomes between our countries, not due Russia or USA.