In the summer of 2015, Hungary built a fence. Residents in the village of Röszke saw workers erect a 4-meter-high fence tipped with razorwire along the Serbo-Hungaian border. Since the fence has gone up, the number of asylum seekers crossing the border has fallen dramatically. Yet critics argue that people are just going around the fence, crossing into different countries or attempting the dangerous journey by sea.
Hungary is part of a group of EU Member States, including Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Poland, who have either already built border fences to stem the influx of refugees or are considering it. Activists say these fences have caused tremendous environmental harm because they cut across wildlife habitats (and, of course, are visually very ugly). They also risk putting even greater pressure on countries such as Greece and Italy as refugee flows are diverted in their direction.
However, there is no doubt that less people are now crossing into Hungary. From the exodus of 2015 when up to 7,000 people were crossing every day, the number of daily crossings in early 2016 fell to just 116. So, has the fence been worth it?
In order to take a closer look at the local impact of the refugee crisis, we launched our ‘Cities & Refugees‘ project – aimed at fostering a Europe-wide dialogue between citizens, refugees and asylum seekers, NGOs, politicians, and European leaders. The emphasis will be on connecting local, everyday life at the city level to decisions made in Brussels and national capitals.
This week, we are looking at Röszke, Hungary. The village of Röszke is located 3 kilometers away from the border with Serbia. It was a hotspot for conflict between police and refugees in 2015, when police fired tear gas and water cannons to scatter asylum seekers trying to cross into Hungary. Röszke is now one of two transit zones where asylum seekers can legally enter Hungary (though only handful of people per day are now allowed through this way). The waiting time for access to the transit zone is a minimum of 6 months.
Curious to know more about the refugees, border walls and fences? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).
What do our readers think? We had a comment from Maia, who is very supportive of Hungary’s border fence. In fact, she thinks other countries should follow Hungary’s lead. But has the fence really been a success? Should it be expanded?
To get a response, we spoke to Boldizsár Nagy, Associate Professor of International Relations at the Central European University in Hungary and a specialist in refugee law. We did also contact representatives of Hungary’s ruling party, Fidesz, for them to take part in this debate, but they declined to participate.
So what did Professor Nagy think? Have the border fences been a success?
Success is always judged from the perspective of an actor. The government claims it is a success. I’m a refugee lawyer working with refugees, and I don’t think it’s a success. Moreover, I don’t think it’s a success from the point of the view for the government either, and certainly not from the perspective of asylum seekers and refugees because it makes it very difficult to get access to the territory and to get access to the procedure. So, from their point of view it’s a disaster. For the government, if the fence itself stopped people from arriving, of course it didn’t. Nobody would stay in Afghanistan or Eritrea simply because he or she knows there’s a fence. The answer was that it decreased the numbers for a few days, then it started to increase again. The major impact was that people turned towards Croatia when the fence was errected in 2015. It’s just pushing the buck on someone else. It’s a very unfriendly gesture politically with your neighbours, because you force them to take in the people who genuinely would have come to you. It’s not a success, not even from the point of view of the government.
Next, we had a comment from Antonios, who points out that many former Soviet countries (such as Hungary) have a history with fences. For many years during the Cold War, people were escaping to the West across fences. Does this make the building of fences not just a practical question, but a moral one as well?
So, that’s the larger picture. Because we were once countries of origin, can we today avoid our historic responsibility to pay back to history? Not necessarily to pay back to the same nations, but to pay back more broadly to history the loan we took up from them. Sometimes it’s reciprocal: in 1956, Hungarians fled to Yugoslavia; in 1991, people from former-Yugoslavia (at that time Croatia and Bosnia) fled to Hungary. That was reciprocity. But there is also a more indirect, subtle reciprocity. That is, as I say: Russians, or Czechs, or Hungarians had to escape communism. Now they should take in people fleeing from countries very similar to former communist regimes – think, for example, of Turkey.
Should more European countries build fences to keep out refugees? Are fences and walls counter to European values? Or are they a sensible reaction to an unprecedented crisis? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
The Debating Europe “Cities & Refugees” project is co-funded by the European Union’s “Europe for Citizens” program.
IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Ingrid Taylar
It is a cynical remark to [make to] a country which is following the rules. And Hungary is not the first one to build a fence; Spain has had a fence for the past ten years, and there’s a fence also in Calais. The fence, apart from being a physical manifestation of the rules and the existing compulsory elements of your life – although you might not like it – there are circumstances when it’s only the fence that enables you to fulfil your duties. We haven’t been inventing new duties, we are just trying to follow the Schengen rules, which clearly state that it’s impossible for people to come illegally to the country and immediately apply for political asylum, going for some kind of legal protection within the European Union.
The Hungarian border fence has actually not been able to stop the flow of migrants to Europe at all, it has just diverted their routes. We see that even now, as increasingly the news is being reported in the Hungarian media, for example, about migrants and refugees trying to leave Serbia via Croatia or Romania. So, it just has made the journeys more dangerous, more expensive, and this is of course very lucrative for human smugglers.
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Yes! How hard is it for you to understand that the vast majority are illegal immigrants? Most Europeans are against this forced mass migration.
By most Europeans you mean you, your friends and your shitty facebook pages that you follow. Just for example, you will see that if most Europeans are against this forced mass migration, they would never vote for Merkel to be next Chancellor of Germany, but unfortunately, for you, they will still choose her. Wonder why, if “most Europeans” are against mass migration. (Not to say that people do travel all around looking for a better existence, and this is not from yesterday. Its how the world moves. And what moves the world.
Yeah first of all inform your country Bulgaria and the wall they have build with Turkey, including the border guards and what they have been doing to all who are illegally crossing the border. Then you can talk about other countries you HYPOCRITE!
AlexanderTsankov Europeans don’t vote for a German chancellor it is the German citizens that do. what are you talking about…
But yeah you are a classic NIMBY case. You are more than willing to accuse everyone else about bigotry, racism etc but fail to see or accept what happens in your own backyard. However empty insults do not work any more so who cares what you say…
Brexit? Anyone? ;)
This is true. At first I was like many others, ready to accept them with open arms. Then I kept myself informed, watched and studied who they are, how many, and compared that with what the media told us. All lies. Europe (Germany and to so extend France) want a cheap labour force and they took the short term solution that will very likely undermine our foundations.
Alexander Tsankov Katerina is right. The large majority of Europeans oppose this mass migration. Merkel will be elected chancellor again DESPITE having allowed all those “refugees” into Germain because the election is not a referendum on migration and people vote taking into account many other things. Even Merkel says that multiculturalism has utterly failed in Germany.
This page is only an exercise in paying lip service,they know the bulk of them are economic migrants,they also know the bulk of Europeans are against this insane immigration…and yet they do nothing
There are legitimate border check points to enter a state… just saying.
Not efficient and besides we need to reinforce what already existe.
A communication campaign would be better. The campaigner could show what happens to those who come to Europe with no skills ect…
Only outer borders of EU
Exactly, free movement within the Union and a giant wall outside.
The EU does not have any borders. It can’t have. The EU is not a country. Uk has borders, Sweeden has borders, Greece has borders, not the EU.
José Bessa da Silva OK, so borders of those countries are EU borders ;)
No they are not. The borders of those countries are their borders, their duty and their right. The EU is a supranational institution just like the UN. None have borders or any right to say what to do with them.
no, people should be free to move.
Any people? And how many of them till we declare its enough of them? You like majority of followers of western europes left seem to be delusional. You want them? Invite them to Your home and leave the decision for themselves to others.
The people move freely inside Schengen. Traffic over the outer border has to be controlled and if the people do not use the legal border crossing stations for entering Schengen, then fencing is needed.
so, Giusi, you don’t lock your doors?
Marijana Nevezanić you have stated something obvious that she would not be able to comprehend
:D i knew the ‘invite ’em to your home’ argument would not fail to be arisen. so, you mean that if you are pro-health coverage you should provide health care ‘in your home’? i am happy to have people from all over the world in my neighborough. I believe that fences and walls worsen things and do not solve anything
Why would he, the people should be free to flow through his apartment whenever and however many want. Its kind of funny that people who want unlimited refugees/migrants more often than not dont live in same districts as refugees/immigrants.
Yes, I agree with you. Let all the rapists and murderers come in without any control.
i do live in the same district as refugees/immigrant
rapists and murderers are well represented in all ‘groups’ of people. you are just full of fear and prejudices.
Giusi Nibbi it’s interesting when you say your neighbourhood but not your home. Everyone has locks in their doors, every country develops upon rules established and those rules should be inforced. Illegal immigration is exactly that…illegal. If you accept everyone without control in your country, why should someone else support you when others decide to enter your house?
as i argued before, the analogy home/country is inappropriate (no facilities we demand from our institutions are provided in ‘our homes’). and i believe we can assure border controls and immigration control through other means (like having clearer legal procedures to enter and supporting development in may ‘critical’ countries etc) then fences and walls.
Actually you are wrong. You can indeed compare a country with a house.
Ex: You love dogs and you decide to adopt tree dogs. One day, you go in the street and you see a pack of 10 starving dogs. You feel sorry for them, you may even cry a little, but you turn your face the other way and start walking because you know you can’t rescue all of them.
In a larger scale that is what a border does. You can’t simply have an open border if migration influx is hight. It is all a matter of resources. You won’t be able to pay for your healthcare system if you are using that money paying to build houses to new citizens, etc. Everything must have a limite.
PS: I’m against a fences just because of it’s cost-efficiency ratio.
So, if a person committed murderer, and says he lost his documentation, as soon as he steps into a boat he is considered by you as a ‘refugee’ and therefore should walk freely in the same streets as European citizens, is that what you’re saying?? How DUMB are you???
as i wrote before, immigration can be managed and ‘controlled’ with other means than fences, walls, and hatred campains
You’re beyond naive, you’re totally delusional.
no, in the long run, you are delusional :)
Why would you promote the *illegal* crossing into Schengen, please tell?
Giusi Nibbi, although things are slowly changing, we still have too many idiots in Italy and maybe in Europe that are following a sick ideology like yours. Do a favour to all of us: migrate to Congo and don’t come back anymore, thanks.
:) – or you could be less of a moron
Bodis: if there is no way to come legally, people will cross illegally. i would not PROMOTE illegal crossing. i would divesify the ways of managing the legal arrivals and hospitality + i would increase the awareness on the promotion of rule of law in the countries where the mass migration comes from + promote the birth control awareness etc
Nonsense.
oh well, it makes a lot of sense to me
Ps: having no birth control is no reason for asylum. :D
it’s not a matter of ‘reasons’ – it’s a matter of causes and consequences of a phenomenon.
China had a huge threat of overpopulation. Instead of flooding other countries with many millions, they managed their problem even though traditional culture had placed a high value on having many children.
These countries will never address their own overpopulation if they will be allowed to flood other lands with their population excess.
The rule of law will never be any better if the people fed up with it just walk away instead of effecting a change.
Most migrants, when honest, will admit that it’s all about the money. There are few real refugees among these people. There are 150 source countries and hundreds of thousands of illegitimate asylum seekers in the EU who refuse to go home.
People who want to come to the EU to work should get a work visa, as many other thousands had already done so.
oh really… what a great democracy China…
Giusi Nibbi kill yourself, do a favour to the humanity
Paolo Ferrini 😀 you must be such a sad human being ..,
Only along the Schengen border, where the legality of border crossing cannot be secured without it.
There would be no need for the fences anywhere if the people used the legal border crossing points instead of running across fields and forests. Traffic over the Schengen border has to be controlled, as per the laws of the EU.
yes
Thing is the external borders are dangerously purous. They badly need reinforcing. Also unified policy of whom and how many to let enter the eu would be helpful. One more point is current situation puts unwanted pressure on southern european states to allow and keep refugee candidates. For example if Germany allows them, they should be let in at the external border but their upkeeping in temporary camps or the cost of transporting refugee candidate to Germany should get covered by Germany.
Wrong question. Right question is Should EU have an organized coast guard and specialised land task force to control its land and sea borders?
No, it should not because the EU is not a country and therefore does not have “borders”.
You are entitled to your opinion
In fact I’m more entitled to my opinion than you are about yours. Mine does not force upon your mouth my ideology unlike yours that is trying to decide 500 million people’s future with no legitimacy.
What an arrogant ignoramus you are
The “right question” was already raised on here as a topic about a week ago……and the answer is….. it already has one called Frontex. The fact it is totally ineffective in what it does is just typical of most EU agencies
Arrogance is to think one has the right to decide upon something or someone that is not your’s or under your care to decide. That is exactly what you are doing. You have your own country, stick your nose in there. You have no right whatsoever to have any word about my nation.
Wow! A deep thinker 😀😀😀
Certainly the vast amout of arguments you gave to justify your ideological tyrany makes you the “deep thinker”. Oh, wait! You have presented no argument at all but a set of personal offenses. Indeed, what a bright person must be kind sir…hahaha
Keep Talking! :-)
fences are needed on external borders
The European countries must guard its borders from illegal immigrations. They must not encourage immigrants.
Yes
Yeeapp!! Let those countryes who destabilised everitjing in theyr homes to receive them.
Europe should protect its outside borders
Definitely not. If refugees are a concern than a more rigorous, efficient administrative and registration process should be introduced. Things like biometrics and if not already happening all this should be put on line and shared online with EU, Europe and other countries to help identify possible mal intentioned people.
I feel sorry to see the euoropians who enjoying the freedom in cleanliness infrastructure and deciplene people but not by inviting the Arabs to Europe means that they loose the identity of their culture and heritage by keeping them inside their buttock who are so unclean and 200 years backward and slave mentality of these migrants .more early they send them more their safety remains or else they suffer like India where India is suffering from Muslims thugs who are unclean and violance is their mind set and not development of the nation but their religion who are all converted bybthr invaders of Muslims ruled for 800 years .the Hindus were suffered by these invaders and polluted our population by converting them to Muslims shave become fanatics and from fanatics to exemism and from extremism to terrorism that we Hindus are suffering from them .
No one should be granted in after they enter illegaly. Law violation shall not be rewarded. More borders control, with sanitary, judiciary and eligibility check before letting in. Data UNHCR is less than 3% of the migrants entering EU are refugees. For the 97% left, coming from potential infectious areas, fleeing their own countries justice because they are convinced of thieveries, rapes, murders, religious or politic extremism, a large majority is used to a violent way of life and shouldn’t be allowed in without a serious investigation. Also remember EU has a quarter of its active population that’s already jobless or partly employed and another quarter is poor workers, so economic migrants shouldn’t be allowed in without a previous legal request from their futur employers and providing a proof they can afford housing, due to the fact we already don’t have enough for the homless EU citizens. EU has a duty to european people first, just as anywhere in the world a state has for its citizens, so yes to stronger borders.
Well if you trust in and wait for the Eurocrats to act, then you’d better brace yourself for the muslim clone army of Darth Soros who’ll turn Europe into Eurabia :-( …
That is each countries business, not EU’s. Each country has the right and the duty of taking care of it’s own borders. Finally, I think my country should build “a big fat wall”, not to protect from refugees but from europhiles, euricrats and eurocorrupts…
That is each countries business, not EU’s. Each country has the right and the duty of taking care of it’s own borders. Finally, I think my country should build “a big fat wall”, not to protect from refugees but from europhiles, eurocrats and eurocorrupts…
Immigrants don’t stand alone in the frame of international politics formed by finance centers well known as markets. Nevertheless, humanity issue arises and the problem turn’s out to be conciously intersubjective rather objective. Human against finance, life against money. So helping is another issue, and every state should recognise the problem, construct immigrant centres eqipped with all necessary services and welcome a specific number of them defined by the state ability.But according to my opinion global problems are not so innocent as they might seem cause of the politics influence and projection.
YES, build and defend us!!!
Yes!!! Especially the illegal terrorists, who are posing as “refuges”.
Give the money for PEACE and help to stay in their countries
Yes.
It would be pointless
Debating stupid questions should be the name of the page(?) bye
Yes every country should retake back it’s borders.
Only legal arrivals should be possible. All available resources needed to comply with the law should be applied.
Yes!!!
No
Is this a normal question? Poor ppl!
Yes!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Romania is in NATO since 2004. Thus Romania is possibly having soldiers in theatres of war in Asia and possible Arabia. Stopping war involvement and stopping wars in Africa, Arabia and Asia might be a first to make people move. Rather than building fences. Fences will only temporary be an agent of hinderance for people on the move.
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Last night refugees tried to trespass the Romanian border injuring one cop and damaging a few police vehicles … Luckily the cops were smart enough to open fire and manage to stop them only after 2 refugees were shot … So you ask if we need walls? Well now we do, thanks to the refugees we clearly do need walls!
Yes only legal immigrant and real refugees are welcomed but for the rest fences should be made.
What was the point of DE getting a refugee lawyer to comment on this topic?…like all lawyers his opinion will be based on whatever lines his pocket, of course he loves immigration, and so does his bank manager
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
Discrimination against real refugees by equality with illegal immigrants: lefties “political correctness”
No doubt about!
better a boycott to the turkish economy.
NO
Sure …Every new terrorist act of the jihadists is supposed to cause shock and awe. In fact, we are almost used to. Reactions are always the same: there is talk of “crashing hurt”, About “heroic victims” and about love that hates hatred. Then there are candles and flowers. I think that in the Western countries, the attitude of the majority towards Islam is more dangerous than Islamic terrorism and can cause much more casualties. Islam is a challenge to the intelligence of today’s citizens…
no. we should intervene to stop wars. there is no refugees if there is no wars.
Keep dreaming. 90% are economic migrants, not refugees. Official statistics. Wake up, and get a coffee. Greetings from Italy
Johnny Tranvai what statistics are you talking about? can you please provide any proof of what you are talking about?
no.
Yessssss
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is your burden to carry. Your borders, your burden. Simple, isn’t it?
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
It is unfair for countries like Italy and Greece to carry the burden of refugees..even if EU is paying € for their staying it is a burden for the environment and for the permanent residents Italian and Greeks ..criminality has raised and the economic disaster (especially for Greece islands) is unbelievable..in some islands the number of refugees is higher then the residents!!!
Every nation should, Schengen is a disaster zone.
stupid question
Directly or not, migrations are a consequence of global inequality!
Rich countries citizens must help undeveloped world citizens to have education housing and a basic income… paying a fair price for the resources they take!
Let’s start to call them with a proper name: Economic migrants. This is what we are getting in Italy, as less than 10% receive the refugee status. You can keep telling all bullshits you like, but this is the only truth. Greetings from Italy.
Debating Europe; The term “Refugee” is a legal term granted by the state and clearly defined in the International Court and the EU. The fences or any other form of hostility clearly violate the spirit of the law. And, you xenophobic headline does more harm than help your ignorant readership.
Hungary did nothing wrong!
yes,we need to do it
Not refugees. Bankers.
Absolutely yes! And also they should deport every one of them!
Well, the question is a pure fallacy if you have in account that those who enter Europe from Middle East are by definition economic migrants and in any case refugees…
The real question should be:
Should more European countries build fences to keep out illegal economic migrants from Africa and Middle East?
Also should be remembered that South Americans are deported when their visa finish, but Africans and people from MENA aren´t. Is this some kind of racism? Either all or none.
only the countries that have signed a treaty where they promised to protect the outer border of the Schengen Area
migrants = / = refugees Even damn Euronews can’t get it right in the same damn news segment.
What Brussels is waiting for, seriously, move your ass from the office and see streets on Brussels to see what’s happening!!! Yes build the fences and start deporting them.
and start sending back your own immigrants
Chay Carle what you mean?
yes, the are not just immigrants, they are illegal immigrants, they are braking the law.
No. If you have a problem with economic migrants order all your descendants spread all over the globe to return to their homeland. Let’s see how that suits you.
No. If you have a problem with economic migrants order all your descendants spread all over the globe to return to their homeland. Let’s see how that suits you.
Yes because when all the colonist left Europe for the new worlds they found jobs, housing and social security all being paid for by the indigenous populations of those countries didn’t they?
Yes! It could be to late but start deporting and at the same time organize borders (fence, border patrol) At the moment EU is a free for all, how stupid can you get??
Should more countries cooperate? Yes. Should it be related to hos much a country has helped? Without doubt! Should it focus on solving the core problem? Yes.
Should more European countries build fences to keep out refugees?
Emulate Trump and his promise of a wall you mean? Yes, of course And follow it up by jailing those politicians who, without permission of their electorate, opened their countries to murder and mayhem by inviting millions of undocumented in.
And then give Trump the accolades he should be accepting for his determination to make a difference to the majority of ‘his’ people. The only leader to be seen to be acting on the permission of the majority of voters.
However, the story is, the German people are getting ready to re-elect Merkel in a couple of months. Which, whether they realise it or not, will give her their permission to fill Germany with millions more cheap fodder they will have to work to feed for life. As well as see a dramatic change to all they considered their social civilization. It will no longer be the land of their birth. And when they do that, to make sure they keep them inside Germany and not try to flush them out into other European States, who cannot afford this chaos.
I’m unfollowing this page. It’s just angry-making for no potential benefit at all. I don’t know whether you’re actually aiming to promote far right populism with these questions framed to provoke ethno-nationalist populist reactions or just have the most incredibly stupid and counterproductive communications strategy ever, but either way it’s having the same effect.
The EU should house and help the refugees/migrants, but with real and proper policies and, ABOVE ALL, do not punish the nationals to favour the newcomers like you do now. That’s why europeans are against them…not racism or xenphobia but the feeling of being relegated as social help, subvencions and grtatuities go to the refugees/migrants.
On the map you missed a few more walls that exist – between Bulgaria and Turkey, between Spain and Morocco and the British anti-migrant wall in Calais, France. Also it was not only the Hungarian police that used tear gas to disperse attempts of mass illegal border crossings by migrants. They were the first, but were later followed by the Macedonian, French, Italian and Spanish police who all used tear gas to stop illegal migrants. The Spanish police also fired rubber bullets.
Germany invited the migrants, but failed to offer them safe transport to reach the country. In this way it encouraged them to travel in a dangerous way, resulting in thousands drowning en route to Germany. This is cruelty which absolutely violates European values and any human rights. On top of it, Germany expects other European countries to take responsibility and host the guests that it invited. This kind of dictatorship has nothing to do with European values either. It is not solidarity, but imposing German migrant policies on other countries. One should not invite guests, if they cannot afford to host them and should not blame others for not hosting them either. If Germany wants to help refugees, it should do it the right way – by reaching out to them in their host countries, or by providing them safe transport to come to Germany, but not by waiting for them to undertake and survive the Journey of Death first. What utter disrespect for human life, disguised hypocritically as compassion…
I agree with what you say Maia though just one point of note, the British anti-migrant wall differs from the rest as it’s designed to keep migrants in the Schengen zone instead of out
Refugee from Starving and mismanagement of life..no..they should learn to fight for their rights..Real help for people fleeing war and suppression about race or religion, yes..sure ..as selected and proper integrated people..not in millions..And, please…integration with language and work life..No work, no integration..it looks like feeding apes..they will never have the chance to be men..
Refugees are a deflection from the real causes of their flight. That is, the selling of arms and the making of wars where there were none by America and the EU.
Oh hell Yes.
yes, every european country should build the fence to protect its borders and to protect europen values. all those illegal immigrants should be stopped before they enter any european country
Hell yes! And the EU should pay for the walls.
We ALREADY send our tax-money to Boratstan. How you decide to misuse/embezzle it is up to you.
Only the countries that are not part of the Geneva Convention on Refugees, and don’t want to be, should do that.
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Most of these are not refugees, but invaders, social parasites and asylum sneakers.
Do you seriously expect such a question to generate reasoned debate, or is it merely clickbait?
Hungary is giving exemple to follow
Yes Europe should build big walls and who have no visa have no right to enter the europe.
Indeed. Build a wall / coastal guard around Europe (particularly meditterean region).
And accept only low amount of skilled people.
Yes. Without a doubt.
What refugees?
Migrants*
Should Europeans *not* take simple measures to prevent illegal immigration and thus enforce their laws? A lawless society is no society at all.
Yes. One note to add, people that are flooding europe are not refugees but immigrants mostly looking for an easy life thanks to european social benefits.
The article talks about Syrians and Iraqis. Not poles and and Hungarians. It’s clear that ignoring the civil war in our background was a mistake. One we DID NOT make in the Balkans. And it’s clear that aligning with countries who haven’t understood democracy and capitalism yet was also a mistake.
I propose that we undo both.
You just talk like that, because now you have free movement in the EU country!!
Yes, and put mines as well. And also keep fueling the wars in their countries and be a good dog to the US foreign policy.
refugee:
noun
a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
“tens of thousands of refugees fled their homes”
synonyms: displaced person, DP, escapee, fugitive, asylum seeker, runaway, exile, émigré, stateless person, outcast, returnee; informalreffo
“she had fled as a refugee to escape AmeriKKKan violence and cruelty”
the reason being for having let migrants through Italian boundaries has been in order for them to be hosted in the rest of European countries , not to have all of them in Italy begging in every corner and squares.
true Gianfranco. And that is why the EU wants to have a quota so that every country is taking it’s fair share of refugees. If I’m correct, the total amount of refugees in the EU is at the moment less that 1%. This means that if you leave in a village with a 10.000 people, the amount of Syrians/Afghans/Iraqis/Jemenites/Eritreans would be max 100. Doesn’t sound so bad then right. And Italy would not be ‘full’ with refugees
yes Vincent…
I don’t want any economic refugees…
only those you stated…
for the rest of Africans…tel them to have less children so that one day they’ll be as rich as the West…
I have enough of rhetoric…
Fences will not limit the flow of people to Europe. There will always be alternative ways to bypass them. Humans are clever enough to find them. The problem lies elsewhere and if solved then the fences will be useless, so we should n’t waste money on them. Solve the problem first.
I couldn’t agree more!
Of course fences work, that’s the whole point of borders. The problem is the migrants know that as soon as they land anywhere in the EU they are able to go anywhere they want because of the idiotic dogma of Schengen.
Unfortunately, that is not true. Fences work very well indeed. History proves that more than enough (Berlin Wall). But whether it is an ethical solution is something else.
Once upon a time the Chinese Wall also served it’s purpose. Historical facts as arguments mean that there are no modern arguments supporting building fences … other than wasting a lot of public money .. which is quite a good business for many including those who organise the trips avoiding fences, where thousands have died so far trying to reach Europe. The problem lies elsewhere and that is where it should be solved first.
Should we look who is exploiting Africa and his poor countries, shall we ask ourselves why third world countries are full of resources wich are fundamental for the first world industry, but they keep to be poor? Shall we ask ourselves why so many political coups have been brought forward inside that continent? Who give money to buy weapons? And why? Or we shall just try to stop them like the Eastern European countries like to do? Building a new Berlin wall?
I absolutely agree with your point of view, but to make it clear, the Berlin wall devided people originating from the same culture.
fences won’t help, Berlin knows, the wall didn’t work either
That is pertinent false. Actually, the wall worked very well. Only about 5000 people have escaped. An estimated 2.6 million East Germans have fled to the West befor construction…
Stijn Lagauw you should have kept it then, including the separate sides of Germany.
Ginster Michel Plantagenet there is a great difference though. Walls in this subject will be installed by the nations themselves and not by others who have full control of these nations. ;)
Fences keep people in, but also keep people out. Wrong solution.
If the EU does not change politic, yes. But the solution is to return to the reason,and does not receive illegal immigrants.
The majority of these people are MIGRANTS with economic reasons…..NOT REFUGEES!!!!!
The majority of them are strong MANs between 20 -40 ages.
Why do not go home and build a society like they see in E.U. ????!!!!
This is real questions ….
Yes we need fences to protect our christian values and our european way of life….
I m respect all people and religions !
Ironic that your comment is the exact opposite of the Christian values you say we need to protect.
Neither is our way of life threatened.
As far as the statistics are concerned about 65% of the asylum applications where granted refugee status or some other form of protection so your majority economic migrants is incorrect.
Christian values means to help the poor and the real refugees with food water home….
Oficially the war is over in Syria, Afganisztán , etc.
Yes we have to help the recontruction of these countries.
If we let everybody to came into E.U.then who will build these projects ?!
Like I said if you want to have someone of these healty migrants you should take one of the into your own home and be responsable for their education health care and their actions too.
I supose these people are well qualified persons and talk fluently All E.u. languages…
So make an experiment …and tell as about your opinion about it…
you seem to be a smart guy, yet, you manage you manage it to be completely ignorant and stupid… Syrians tried to make their country better, they got shot down by Assads army, remember? Jemenites try to do the same thing, what happens, Saudi Arabia and Iran are fighting their war over these poor souls. Afghans are fleeing Afghanistan because Obama (and now Trump) were ignorant enough not to remove the Taliban from power. Iraqees are fleeing a still war-torn country. In Eritrea, Sudan and Somalia it’s not going very well either. The only people who you can see as economic migrants are the people from central/west Africa. But where to go if your coming from Nigeria? Chad, Mali, Niger, C.A.R.? No, if you would come from that country, you would also come to Europe. You would be stupid if you wouldn’t. But we Europeans are apparently already spoiled. Enjoying our own freedom of movement and being economic migrants (a thing that is anyway going on since our very first steps on Earth, Europe was once completely without human beings, remember!!!) but stopping other people from doing so. We should of course be careful with who we let into our EU. On the other hand, I rather have 50 million Nigerians and other economic migrants from Africa/Asia than those bastards who are voting on PVV, FN, AfD, FPO, Lega Nord, Golden Dawn and so on!
Dear Vincent you seems to be a smart Man too.
Please remain at the point.
I have an opinnion
You have one
We debating here on this platform …
You forget some and misundestand the culture of region of Syria Afghanistan Lybia….
I m not a political expert but I see and I know Assad is a dictator Khadafi was the same….
Do not forget into this countries this dictators made changes to modernism .
Without him Lybia and the hole regions enter in deep crisis and the fundamentalist take the power and they reentered in bloody black middle ages….
Think what is best vor all Europe….
Central European countries do not have colonies overseas why have to pay for others bill….?!
If somebody like the migrants let them all in in his own house and be full responsable in court from their out law actions.
I do not pay more taxes to feed them for free….
I’m working my ass of for 40 hours per week, receiving a net salary of a 1000 Euro (job is even on university level!) and paying a lot of taxes for lazy Czechs who don’t want to work. Should I demonstrate against that or shall I just accept it as a given fact??
Im sorry for you….
Quite Im in the same situation…
But I do not think for my situation and my salary the whole Eastern States are responsable for.
Vincent please do not take personal 9but your idea that ” lazy czech ” or another European labour force can affect your labour force intrest….
We joined in the same club as equal sovereign States and members.
Please reconsider and think how
can affect your labour situation if a huge influx of migrants get a job ( and they really wants to work ) your paymant became 300 € / mounth.
Help them to build a better life in their home land is cheaper than feel in our every day life how do not work the multiculturality society.
I do not want to be part of this experiment …
The final goal is to create an universal european nation such as Usa.
It is against of major goals of foundind father of E.U.
what a stupid question. Typical question of a continent that forgot its own history
If EU has no other way of keeping illegal migrants out then it seems to be helpful to have a fence on the borders! Refugees??? That is a differant story!!!! EU leaders are betraying Europe and its citizens ! It’s a shame that the EP is assisting the invasion of it’s own continent instead of protecting it!!! I personally hate the idea a fences but they are working in Spain,Bulgaria,Hungary,France and if thats what it takes then build them on all the borders of the EU. Its more HUMAN to show the migrants that they can not enter illegally, then announcing free access and so urging them to take a dangerous juorney that may cost them their lives and we are still not talking about the dangers of terrorism.
Yes, on their National borders. Telling people you can stop ‘migrants’ at Schengen’s external borders is just an attempt to convince people Brussels knows what it is doing. Clearly it doesn’t.
We should stop bombing their countries just because some countries interests. After that people would return for what rest of their homes. Let’s think about that. The problem is not refugees / Islam or terrorists, the problem is: WAR IN THEIR COUNTRIES FORM SOMEONE INTERESTS.
Most of the migrants are from Africa and nobody is bombing them, They just want your home, your job and your country.
Dont be ridiculous
Go read the statistics
Do you mean we can’t protect our borders? Way of thinking nutty as a fruitcake.
YES…
Europe has to protect his borders like all other big power Russia, China, Japon, USA and so on. Otherwise it will be the last destination and overbooked
Freeloaders and anchor babies is a thing and it should be illegal. Anyone caught should be deported full stop.
I am not anti-immigrant of course that the unqualified Europeans are negatively affected by the competition of illegal immigrants in the labor market mainly in the construction and restoration Whythe European political leaders refuse to recognize ?
Yes. Europe should not turn into an Arab or African state. There is a limit
There would be no need of fences if those peoples were provided in their country with what is necessary for a decent living ….+.running water,drinkable water,electricity.Nobody likes to be a refugee or a forced migrant.
They have had decades of funding for this at our expense and stupidity , they have had their chance of help and blew it.
Unlimited inward migration is just not sustainable economically or culturally. It is a threat to the existence of smaller EU countries when you consider the detail of the numbers. Therefore there must be some forcibly restriction, ignoring this reality can only be described as dishonesty with yourself or others.
yes. it’s their duty according to the Schengen treaty
Yes please
What? We’re going back to the Cold War just because of xenophobic countries that had fences to keep people in during the Cold War?
Better if these countries left the EU rather than go back to the past.
The refugee problem is solved by keeping refugees in their homeland by helping them solve their problems at home rather than creating them ourselves. Refugees are made to flee their countries mostly by western countries by either interfering with their political systems, supporting local conflicts by selling them armaments, exploiting and robbing them of their resouces, misuse of and inappropriate application of donated financial resources etc etc. A basic fundamental human right of every human right is to be able to live peacefully in his own homeland and comes before his rights for a decent life elsewhere. So the best way to help refugees is not to open borders but rather to help and make them stay in their own country. Then no fences would be necessary
no. certainly not. We should actually put a major economic boycot to the countries which are doing that! Hungary for example. They forgot that over a million refugees fled Hungary because of the Soviets. Now they don’t let refugees into their country, even though they know that the amount of refugees who are stupid enough to stay in Hungary is zero! Again, why are the Baltic countries taking their fair share and these Vysegrad countries refuse to take an honest number of refugees??? Is there nothing positive to be said about Orbans government. Yes, they want to at least pay for it. We should allow that, but of course a fair number of Euros. Let’s say 15.000 Euro per refugee per year, quite easy to calculate how much that would be in total.
Of course not!
NOOOOOOOOO.. WATCH THE OUTER BORDERS..
Yes, unfortunately, they want to come to Europe, instead of the rich countries of the gulf. Poor Europe
They actually do go to the rich countries of the gulf.also.
https://m.facebook.com/notes/islam-mohamed/saudi-aid-to-syrian-refugees-is-enough-truths-revealed-lies-exposed/10156125779865294/
quite a dishonest way to shape the problem, as if walls could be on the table. You take for granted the legality and the usefulness of the option (do you remember Mediterranean?)
What if EU stops supporting all those who install and support regimes in their areas for a change? Blindly adopting the US policy even when its completely wrong creates problems for Europe. Our continent acts like a firewall for USA in these matters. Every time we participate in their dirty war games, we will continue being the ones to hurt.
Europe should have its own policy and start deciding for its own self for a change…
More should be done to help them in their home lands open door policy doesn’t help makes it worst.
show me any term in statements today in EU diskussion where you find “refugees”
No need fences. Need more restricțions and new lows
Fences can’t stop people from moving. The real battle for the immigrant crisis is in the Mediterranean Sea and Aegean Archipelagos.
We must focus on how to prevent these people from getting inside the boats in the shorts of Libya, Marocco, Turkey etc
Can’t stop you say? Then look at Hungary and other eastern European countries which built walls they have no terrorists in their contries and no multiculturalism too.
I mean did you ever heard on TV or somewhere about terrorism in Poland?
to keep out ILLEGAL migrants. because there are rules to enter a country.
Or you completely forget about the law?
No, spend the money assisting the countries from which they come from instead of exploiting their resources and bombing the life out of them like NATO did in Libya. Stop with the braindead siege mentality.
Divide & conquer, the perfect strategy to keep things going the way they are, just disgusting :( 1: It is Europes responsibility to assist the “developing” countries to get out of poverty, war and overpopulation. For this purpose Europe needs to stop sending weapons to all of the potential conflict zones & if weapons are sent, then the manufacturers need to pay at least 30 percent of their profit to support rebuilding, peace Actions or HUMANITARIAN relocation programs. Every country that is in any case involved in wars or conflict zones has to pay a share to at least compensate the damage. 2: The developing countries need fair access to the global markets, local and regional businesses have to be supported, education has to become a human right for every single individual, this will have the effect of slowing down the overpopulation. What is lacking nowadays ist the humanity. Greed needs to be replaced with empathy and the will to give, then there will be no need to talk about fences because every single being is able to live a fulfilling life.
.
1. Why is it Europe’s responsibility to assist the “developing” countries ?
2. The developing countries already have fair access to the global markets, the left want them to have privileges over existing developed Nations, how is that logical or fair ?
3. Where is your humanity if you are happy to sacrifice the future of your own children for the benefit of others ?
1. Because Europe is taking advantage in outsourcing cheap labour in these countries, otherwise you would not be able to buy cheap produce in any kind, European Corporations are using and abusing developing countries for profit. Due to the blessings of the Internet developing countries know how people live in Europe, they want their share of wealth, too. So if you don´t want Europe to be sweapt with migrants or refugees, let them gain some wealth in their own countries so that they don´t see a reason to come to Europe. 2. The developing countries do not have a fair access to the global markets. Regional markets are getting wiped out by cheap European produce. E.g. some parts in Africa can´t sustain themselves. This neeeds to be changed! 3. What kind of a short term sighted view is this? Your egotistic view is geapardising the future Generations in Europe because if Europe is not changing it will be overrun by migrants. There is enough to share on this world for all humans, it just has to distributed wisely.
Karin Lodge .
1. Without cheap labour they would have no income at all and attempting to force businesses to pay them the same as Western employees means they will not employ 3rd world workers depriving them of any wages, the same applies to workers in Eastern and Southern Europe who move to Northern Europe and Northern European companies that open factories in poorer regions of Europe, so can I take it you want to see your fellow EU citizens out of work too ?
They have no ‘share in the wealth’ of the West as they have not contributed to it, life is NOT a charity. f you do not earn it you have no right to it and you do not get it.
2. You claim in point 1 that Europe is exploiting the 3rd world for cheap labour then claim in point 2 Europe is flooding the 3rd world with cheap goods ? You can’t have it both ways.
Ivan – Obviously you seem to be not well informed, I highly recommend you to investigate before you post.
Yes, every single one of the 51 Nation States of Europe should have totally secure borders.
It’s kinda hard building a fence in the sea. Internal borders are not going to help anyone.
No borders = unrestricted mass movement = ungovernable Nations = Anarchy and the utter destruction of Western civilisation.
Thanks for pointing out the goal of Socialist dogma.
Lets do another question. Who is the guy who is doing a lot of money with all refugees. And why dont Europe do pressure to stop the war?
Let’s ask who is doing a lot of money with walls on frontiers.
The agreement reached by the EU on migration contains this passage:
“All the measures in the context of these controlled centres, including relocation and resettlement, will be on a voluntary basis,”
Which is shorthand for ‘nothing as changed’. .
So well done EU, you have managed to achieve nothing again & have just kicked the can down the road one more time & it doesn’t change the fact that you have no answers to the problem and for as long as Schengen exists the migrants will come.
……. FOR SURE !!
A good number of ”refugees”and immigrants can’t find work and want to go home.
Liudvikas – They were duped by the Liberals. Racism isn’t the issue. The deathly silence is. Whilst the Globalists are destroying the Middle East the people fleeing are Aliens in a new land and the country folk don’t know how to communicate and visa versa. They would be happy in their own country but so long as the Democracies continue to destabilise the World at the behest of International Freemasonry they will continue to come.
Well does anybody know how many unemployed people we have in the EU? and does everybody in the EU have the same standard of living. So its pretty easy to why they dont want to go to certain EU countries.
Why don’t we stop stealing their resources and supporting wars first!
We don’t need to support their wars. Looking at what happened between those farmers and nomads in Nigeria this week, they are perfectly fine at doing this themselves
NO, Never !!
After intervening outside foreign law, after condoning coup d’etats that turned worse than before, European states need to take responsibility and reform their immigration politics. No need for fences, just sound judgement and a more efficient process. So the state knows exactly who can stay and who has to go.
Yes. Build a wall, and make Croatia pay for it.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Shameful.
We should build more fences to keep the rightist scum inside…
Hell no
We ar then back to the 30th we the ritch countries shall not stepp back from our humanity just cuse they need help. It was we in The first place that Made the situation by steeling from them, draw untural borders etc.
We have afford and every democratic country need to take their resonsebilety by helping refugees. We need to dissa tel the inhumane refugee camps not create new once. The EU is fishing in black water now reely black.
“To keep out refugees”? No, they can come through the checkpoints, after we’ve verified the validity of their asylum claim. We should build temporarily fences, against the unusual wave of illegal economic migrants. Immigration on economic reasons is a perfectly valid claim too, but it’s not asylum and the host country decides how many and which immigrant it needs.
No more fences, I agree, no more housed with closed doors, no more closed windows, either the cabinets with our clothes have to stay open too, yes, and we must make clean beds for everybody, not only refugees and immigrants, but for any poor people, yes, open your house first, give the example…
I sincerely hope you are being ironic lol
Ivan – sort of ironic I’m, my english is rudimentary …
But they are coming by the sea
Keeping out refugees is against international law.
But most of them are economic migrants
Sabrina – Keeping out terrorists, illegal financial migrants, rapists, thieves, child molesters, etc is not against any international law.
It’s what we pay our politicians to do.8|
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/most-fleeing-to-europe-are-not-refugees-eu-official-says-1.2511133
Not really. As long as their claim for asylum is properly processed and granted if it’s legit there is no issue with international law, as long as the people are stayying in a save place in the meantime.
Why is the west supporting the terrorists and waging a Globalist war against Syria? Anyone remember Syria before the war?
Stop the wars to stop refugees.study history.Europe has been devastated many times by mass migration.nothing can stop it but peace and human living conditions