From inside, Europe doesn’t always feel like a rich continent. Unemployment is still high, and people everywhere are struggling to make ends meet. The bitter election being fought in France recently has brought that feeling to the fore. Yet, compared to the rest of the world, the quality of life is good in Europe.
Is it unreasonable, then, for Europe to also help people fleeing conflict and persecution as refugees? Over 80% of the world’s refugees are hosted in the developing world, so the EU is not being asked to shoulder a disproportionate burden. Does Europe not have a moral duty to help those in distress?
In order to take a closer look at the local impact of the refugee crisis, we launched our ‘Cities & Refugees‘ project – aimed at fostering a Europe-wide dialogue between citizens, refugees and asylum seekers, NGOs, politicians, and European leaders. The emphasis will be on connecting local, everyday life at the city level to decisions made in Brussels and national capitals.
This week, we’re looking at Gdańsk. Poland is the sixth-largest economy in the European Union, yet average wages are still half the EU average. Despite this, Gdańsk under Mayor Paweł Adamowicz has positioned itself as a city in solidarity with refugees. How did they manage this? And how have citizens reacted?
<Curious to know more about refugees and citizens? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).
We had a comment from Alex, who does believe that Europe has a moral duty to help refugees. However, he believes Europe also has a greater duty to its own citizens. Are these two obligations in conflict with one another?
To get a response, we spoke to Paweł Adamowicz, Mayor of Gdańsk. What would he say to Alex?
We also had a question from Muscas, who believes the moral duty to help refugees doesn’t lie with Europe, but rather with Middle Eastern countries neighbouring Syria. What would Paweł Adamowicz say in response?
Does Europe have a moral duty to help refugees? And is there a conflict between helping refugees and helping your own citizens? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
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Both must be helped at the same time! Otherwise it won’t work! A good example of what kind of policies we must take is the Greek program for the refugees of 1923 greco-Turkish war.back then the government to a series of actions to help both the refugees and the extremely poor locals..as a result or as an American reporter had said ” the country have jumped for 19th century to 20th in a matter of months “…this crisis is nothing in front of what our grand fathers have seen. .lets try not to drawn in a glass of water
You are a neoliberal idiot.
Yep what ever Michael Paraskevas ..may i ask you a question? You use google translate or just t9??? It’s obvious you don’t know a shit about this you just throwing some words that might sound great in Greek but in English they don’t make any sense at all! Yep it’s a shitty thing not to know basic English
Just ask for some help it’s not to late
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A better question would be ‘When does helping financial migrants become cultural suicide ?’
When they numbers become large and overvote local people. Than will shitt hit the fan
There is none while their status and the privileges derrived from it is of a refugee. When the term refugee fades into “immigrant”, social implications may vary.
YESS !! Nothing against helping refugees, but 95% of “refugees” wich enter europe are welfare tourists !!
Proof?
Pakistani, Afgans, Irakeze,Indie,Tunezie,Marrocan,Sudanese,Iritrea 95% and 5% Syrians…
34000 from 1 200 000 in % = 2.833333 percent is working … https://www.thelocal.de/20161219/so-far-only-34000-refugees-have-found-jobs
Welfare tourists..95%
Pedro Castro
Even the unelected European Politburo accepts the fact most are not refugees.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/most-fleeing-to-europe-are-not-refugees-eu-official-says-1.2511133
People from Eritrea are welfare tourists??? You have no idea what is going on to Eritrea, do you?
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We should care because ?, how many would you let in, 10,000, 100,000 or all of them ?
Eritrea has 5 neighbouring countries, and 15 which are neighbours to its neighbours. Before crossing a continent and a sea almost as big as an ocean, they could reach another fellow country. But as all welfare turists they aim for the big shot: Europe.
Its not the question of how many allowing in. Its the question about how treating those who are already here.
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And to hell with the rest ?, you have a strange version of compassion.
Take them in your home and soon it will be clear what are they intentions.. Try Spyrous and find out by your self.
Economic research on immigration (e.g. by George Burda in the U.S.) shows that this very much depends on the destination country and the characteristics of the immigrants. If immigrants create new jobs or fill jobs for which there are not enough domestic workers, they can make a positive contribution to a country’s economy and bring about a win-win situation. If, by contrast, they are at a high risk of unemployment and receiving social benefits or if their integration is particularly difficult due to socio-cultural reasons, the outcome is more likely to look like a trade-off. For example, because most Vietnamese and Iranian immigrants (yes, the latter are typically Muslims) to Germany were either high-skilled and/or very hard-working, they are generally well-integrated and welcome. On the other hand, the immigration of many low-skilled immigrants is likely to set them into competition with older low-skilled immigrants and slow the latter’s integration (e.g. in Germany, Syrian refugees will mostly be in concurrence with less recent immigrants from ex-Yugoslavia or North Africa).
The key take-away is that we have to understand that (a) immigration is neither advantageous or disadvantage per se – its effect depends on its management – and (b) accept a multicultural society as a sustainable system (even though it might not always be an outright failure). By consequence, we should adapt the inflow of immigrants to Europe’s needs and capacities and require the assimilation of long-term immigrants as a form of in-depth integration. For example, research by Ruud Koopmans shows that immigrants who are similar in attitudes to natives in terms of share of natives among contacts, native language proficiency and attitudes w.r.t. gender equality, also have similar rates of labour market participation. Otherwise, we even do those immigrants who came to Europe because they want to live here according to European values a disservice.
Oh, and btw, yes, I have a “migration background” myself.
Well said! ??? it’s a matter of management i agree 100 percent!
Well said! 👍👍👍 it’s a matter of management i agree 100 percent!
Well put.
So who is George Burda, a professor in speaking the bleeding obvious? Of course it “depends on the destination country and the characteristics of the immigrants” , no research is necessary to figure that one out
As for management, clearly that conclusion has been made by a manager themselves, only they believe management can solve everything
If tens of thousands of low skilled refugees arrive in a country they require resources and facilities (i.e. taxpayers money) to look after them, “managing” them will achieve nothing apart from providing statistics and power point presentations so the liberal left to congratulate themselves on how much good they have achieved by spending other peoples money
Even if a majority of these refugees find work the chances of it being a job that pays sufficient for them to pay tax and national insurance is very unlikely and they therefore will not be net contributing to that countries economy
People need to differentiate between Immigration of high skilled workers (in demand and of great benefit to any country) and low skilled refugees (a burden where ever they go)
Economic research on immigration (e.g. by George Burda in the U.S.) shows that this very much depends on the destination country and the characteristics of the immigrants. If immigrants create new jobs or fill jobs for which there are not enough domestic workers, they can make a positive contribution to a country’s economy and bring about a win-win situation. If, by contrast, they are at a high risk of unemployment and receiving social benefits or if their integration is particularly difficult due to socio-cultural reasons, the outcome is more likely to look like a trade-off. For example, because most Vietnamese and Iranian immigrants (yes, the latter are typically Muslims) to Germany were either high-skilled and/or very hard-working, they are generally well-integrated and welcome. On the other hand, the immigration of many low-skilled immigrants is likely to set them into competition with older low-skilled immigrants and slow the latter’s integration (e.g. in Germany, Syrian refugees will mostly be in concurrence with less recent immigrants from ex-Yugoslavia or North Africa).
The key take-away is that we have to understand that (a) immigration is neither advantageous or disadvantage per se – its effect depends on its management – and (b) accept that a multicultural society is not a sustainable system (even though it might not always be an outright failure). By consequence, we should adapt the inflow of immigrants to Europe’s needs and capacities and require the assimilation of long-term immigrants as a form of in-depth integration. For example, research by Ruud Koopmans shows that immigrants who are similar in attitudes to natives in terms of share of natives among contacts, native language proficiency and attitudes w.r.t. gender equality, also have similar rates of labour market participation. Otherwise, we even do those immigrants who came to Europe because they want to live here according to European values a disservice.
Oh, and btw, yes, I have a “migration background” myself.
The better question is : Should those (politicians, ONG/NGOs and financiers) who have directly or indirectly promoted all the wars and régime changes in Africa and the Middle East since 2001 be DEPORTED to those countries?
I agree with Hector. Everything depends on management and enforcement of legality. At the moment, EU Countries fight each other to load the burden of immigration on someone else, and do not fight criminal exploitation instead. In Italy, only 5% of some 150,000 migrants have been found to meet the refugee status . All the other ones come from Nigeria, Bangla-Desh, Guinea, mainly countries with no apparent war ongoing. This doesn’t work.
I agree with your concept in general but I have to say that the system has “howls” for example a woman from north Africa who try to escape from barbaric religious practices can be called immigrant or refugee?
A refugee, no questions asked.
Doesn’t have to be.
I love your work so much
The question is an answer.
More than 80 percent are illegals and not real war victims. The NWO promotes the islamization of Europe and gives more benefits to the illegals than to their own citizens who have to pay taxes. The EU keeps acting like Turkey’s bitch and instead of sanctioning Erdogan they allow him to keeps sending boats of illegals through the Aegean sea. In 20 years there will be no Western European civilization.
All the world envies europe…They expect the EU to solve all the problems, America, China, Japan, do nothing, and just want to sell everything they can to our continent. We help, and we want to do better, but come on do something! Like Canada for example. And also Turkey, except that they use the 3 million refugees they have as blackmail…
Yes there is a conflict because the average taxpaying member of the public gets nothing out of helping refugees
The liberal left who browbeat people by claiming we are morally obliged to help them curl up in their bed at night with a warm satisfying glow knowing how they are helping the needy, but at the end of the day it isn’t their money that gets used, ……they get the glow, the taxpayer foots the bill
Taxpayers have a right to expect the money they are forced to hand over to be spend to the benefit of the society they live in…there are plenty of charities out there if people feel the need to spend money to make themselves morally enriched
Helping refugees can, if done correctly, be a great investment into European societies. Birth rates are falling and the population as a whole is ageing – an influx of skilled, productive members can be very positive! Spending money on refugees (e.g. teaching them the local language, helping them integrate into communities and the job market) can improve European communities.
If you have any figures on what percentage of refugees are skilled and educated then please share them, my guess is the vast majority have no qualifications and lack even the basic language skills necessary to do anthing productive
This “aging population” excuse is getting a bit tiresome, to contribute to the economy a refugee needs to be in a job that pays over the threashold for paying tax (Currently in UK £11.000) I guess that out of those that do actually find work very few will be above this threshold and therefore contribute nothing, the rest that don’t work are a 100% drain.
As for teaching them there is plenty of scope for improvement in our own childrens education without needing refugees to justify additional spending .
Obviously, numbers vary depending on age, nationality, and reason for migration, so there are no comprehensive statistics. But, for example, a 2015 UNHCR study (quoted here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/578956/IPOL_STU(2016)578956_EN.pdf) found that Syrian refugees arriving in Greece are ‘highly educated.’ Obviously studies of other sub-groups, particularly within specific European countries, have other results.
However, even people who have only had vocational training are not just a drain to society – there are plenty of jobs that do not require university degrees – construction, for example, is currently booming in Germany.
Some more comprehensive studies of percentages of refugees’s education levels (in 2015) and the percentages of refugees working (separated by age) can be found here: http://www.economist.com/news/business/21679791-businesses-could-benefit-and-refugees-integrate-faster-if-newcomers-europe-were-able
One line in that report does “suggest” that Syrian refugees going through Greece are highly educated, but that is clearly a very selective piece of data. The rest of the report gives a more realistic overview of the educational standards of all the other refugees, it also finishes with the conclusion…(quote)
“To sum up, there are no quick solutions for refugees’ integration into the labour market –anywhere. To get the majority of the recent cohort of young humanitarian migrants into employment or (vocational) education and training, high investments in language proficiency and skills acquisition are needed”
For “high investments” read “taxpayers money”
Also of note in the report is mention that very few refugees actually have any evidence of their education so even the “highly qualified” ones may just invent diplomas or degrees
Of course there is
The biggest conflict is that some NGOs work together with mafia to help refuegees to come to Europe…
tu la chiami mafia ma è criminalità internazionale perchè da una parte ci sono gli scafisti e dall’altra imbarcazioni PRIVATE non italiane . Quelle italiane sembra che stiano lavorando con coscienza e comunque non può essere gestito questo problema ENORME da privati , i privati non pensano al bene comune pensano agli affari
Sono daccordo…sono convinto che e internazionale!!!
I am of the opinion that charity begins at home but refugees have a real problem and we must help them with our heart… Be for them a meal ticket!
Refugee respect the food you give him. There are thouzend cases trowing food they give them on the floor so you tell me this are “REFUGEES”?? Sorry NO
I am sorry for my wrong! I wanted to write “immigrants”, no refugees! About the last that you say I can’t capture your thought!
Look i see in Calais with my own eyes these”refugees oor immigrants” and most of them and round 95% are only here for free money”welfare” and are causing big problems for local people !!
Wait a minute… You are from France or Europe generally and you have those stances? I don’t know what are you saying, the only thing that I know is that those people have a war and they want peace and freedom. They want to live and to give their children plenty of perspectives without restrictions and fear for their life! Giwrgos Gekas δες τί λέει ο μαλάκας!
Απόστολος Γαρούφος those who want freedom are welcome but those who are abusing a social system and do NOT want to integrate should go to hell !!!!
Well, I will agree with you… If only they want freedom then are welcome here in Europe… Any different religion or nationality are not welcome!
of course its like saying you have your child without food and shelter and you give it to somebody else instead. Shame on the eu
l’Europa non mi sembra che stia aiutando gli immigrati nè il popolo europeo . Siamo invasi di immigrati di tutti i tipi e non tutti sono bisognosi, alcuni vengono a passare le vacanze gratis nel mio Paese compresa l’istruzione gratuita e il mantenimento a carico dei cittadini mentre ai cittadini italiani non hanno tutele sociali. . La UE ha lasciato gestire gli “aiuti” del mediterraneo ad imbarcazioni private che stanno facendo affari . La magistratura sta indagando, ancora di ufficiale non ci sta niente ma lo vediamo con i nostri occhi quel che sta succedendo . Siamo pieni , pieni , pieni di immigrati , tutte le strutture sono piene , non sappiamo più dove metterli. E’ un caos
ma perchè ci maltrattate cosi ! Dopo che ci derubate ci riempite di immigrati a carico nostro . Perchè !?
Because fucking EU wants cheap workers and stupid people dont onderstend whats going on !!
l’Europa non mi sembra che stia aiutando gli immigrati nè il popolo europeo . Siamo invasi di immigrati di tutti i tipi e non tutti sono bisognosi, alcuni vengono a passare le vacanze gratis nel mio Paese compresa l’istruzione gratuita e il mantenimento a carico dei cittadini mentre ai cittadini italiani non hanno tutele sociali. . La UE ha lasciato gestire gli “aiuti” del mediterraneo ad imbarcazioni private che stanno facendo affari . La magistratura sta indagando, ancora di ufficiale non ci sta niente ma lo vediamo con i nostri occhi quel che sta succedendo . Siamo pieni , pieni , pieni di immigrati , tutte le strutture sono piene , non sappiamo più dove metterli. E’ un disastro ! La mia cittadina di 70.000 persone ad esempio , ospita 60.000 immigrati . Quasi dappertutto è cosi . Vi sembra una cosa normale ? E continuano a venire……
ma perchè ci maltrattate cosi ? Dopo che ci derubate ci riempite di immigrati a carico nostro . Perchè ?
la domanda dice ” c’è conflitto tra aiuto ai rifugiati e aiutare i propri cittadini ? ” La risposta è che la UE non aiuta nessun cittadino europeo e ancor meno il mio , lo deruba dei suoi beni, dei suoi diritti , dei suoi principi, dei suoi valori . Noi vogliamo riprenderci la nostra Costituzione , li ci stanno scritti tutti i valori economici e sociali nei quali ci riconosciamo
yes
υποκριτες που διευθυνετε την ΕΕ ΕΧΕΤΕ υποχρεωση να βοηθησετε ΠΡΩΤΑ τους πολιτες της ΕΕ που πληρωνουν φορους φορους φορους και ξανα φορους για να απολαμβανετε ΕΣΕΙΣ μισθους και ωφεληματα. Δεν εχετε καν εκλεγει αντιδημοκρατες
In the short term, it is obvious that there is a conflict between helping refugees and your own citizens simply because money allocated to refugees will necessarily not go to citizens. But having children does not mean that one should not donate to charity at all – it just means that what money governments allocate to refugees should be used as efficiently as possible.
In the long term, however, helping refugees can, if done properly, be extremely beneficient to European citizens as well. Firstly, birth rates in Europe are very low and an ageing population means that the burden on younger generations is always increasing. Many refugees are skilled professionals and can become extremely valuable members to European communities if they are given the opportunity to do so (e.g. learning the local language, not being barred from job markets).
Secondly, if Europe decides that its own citizens are absolutely more important than refugees, then any other nation is morally able to do the same thing. Not half a century ago, millions were fleeing Europe, many of whom had doors shut in their faces. Perhaps much of Europe is prosperous at the moment, but the international laws on refugees apply to everybody, and ignoring them now could set a dangerous precedent. On the other hand, creating a precedent of respecting and supporting the rights of refugees sets a positive precedent.
Overall, supporting refugees is, if done correctly, not contrary to helping our own citizens, because supporting refugees is an investment into both local and international communities.
Is there a conflict between helping refugees and helping your own citizens?
This is a question that defies common sense. Of course there is a conflict and you know it.
Advertising all over the world for illiterate slave labout to invade Europe and give them preference over social housing, education, Health cover and welfare benefits at the cost to the European tax payer is obscene and a fraudulent use of our money.
You want to support these people out of your own personal money, house them and maintain them within your household for the rest of their lives, well go ahead. Do not touch a penny, even a penny more taxes from the people you have bleached.
Additionally all politicians must be held personally responsible for payment of compensation for any crime these people may commit whilst in Europe. And, additionally, any politician supporting this must pay out of their own personal income all the costs of lawyers, courts and jail time they have to serve.
Any child they bring with them must also be maintained by those same compassionate politicians and their supporters and not duff the cost onto our hard working earners.
How does it feel to steep yourselves in that debt for a lifetime?
Clean up your garden 1st .. then think about cleaning world wide ..
A very obvious one
Finally EU is taking into consideration its state members!
Of course there is a conflict…the UE helps the refugees with the citizens money.
If you’re a self centred moron maybe….
It’s easy to not be self centered with other peoples money…..
there is a massive conflict since refugees are helped more than local citizen in need…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This “conflict” actually its much worse to discrimination.
Yeeeeeeees!
Yes there is.
if you have to choose between the funding for basic stuff , we are in the situation in Romania , where EU want to impose to us to have better conditions for criminals than regular people have in liberty.
Refugees in Croatia are treated better than locals, and refugees already started raping and harrassing. Sooner or later people will start fighting back everywhere
Refugees are protected by international law. Citizens mostly by national states. U know where u have to complain to now
EU that is forcing refugees on its members, and local government that allows to be bullied by corrupt EU
The problem is that all too often the local poor and needy are forgotten, people just assume that because it’s Europe everyone has a place to live and benefits of some kind and medical care etc. But it’s just not the case, if for some reason you end up without a fixed address you have nothing, not even food and water. Also most pensions are inadequate for today’s cost of living,bthey have not increased the way wages have. We need to put our own house in order first. Also things are not as bad as they been described in for example Africa.
No.
Compare how much the favorite destination countries spend on them and how much on the homeless, per capita.
No government had built free housing for the homeless.
Definitely yes!
Yes, there s a conflict and for good reasons
If you are giving houses, jobs, social services to migrants at the expense of citizens then of course there is a conflict. Without doubt the dumbest question so far this year..
Maybe instead the question should be why aren’t all humans treated the same?
Who do you have to tax to finance all these things?
Only a dimwit would ask that question when they already know that they have homeless people of their own and their own people struggling to find work!
In Romania for sure… After 30 years of (hard) work, my sister in law got a pension of 150 euros. Every refugee will get up to 800-1000 Euros, wich in Romania is the monthly salary of a high qualified (university graduate…) specialist… Not fair at all…
It is European help, which created refugees by NATO’s service to greedy war profiteers. If refugees come to Europe is with the assumption that they won’t be bombed, by NATO and AmeriKKKans based in Europe. Of course, they are unaware of the false flag attacks to manipulate public opinion and manufacture consent for racism, segregation, xenophobia and wars. But, this divisive, hate mongering inquire by Debating Europe frames the issue for citizens as “help”, when, in fact, it is the government duty and obligation to SERVE its TAXPAYERS. I propose we overthrow every government unfit to serve its people’s needs. Anarchy, no Monarchies! Anarchy, no bureaucratic war profiteers!
dictature of bruxells junker are criminals.
No conflict. Make Europeans work as hard as possible so they can pay tax. Take their money and without their permission, give it to every migrant who contributed absolutely nothing to society and the development of Europe. I don’t see a conflict here ….Do you!
Hmm! where’s COVID all of a sudden has it disappeared?
Why should Britain bare the brunt of bringing to our country lowly unskilled immigrants or refugees and give them free money from hard earned tax payers. I remember a person on a bus speaking to a Greek women who replied Oh! your from England lovely country they give out free money! It makes me furious Boris and his crew should be strung up they are very silly educated men with no thought for their own indigenous people. When are these hospitals going to be built that Boris Johnson promised? to me this is one selfish narcissistic government.
Britain in the past decades has had it’s fare share of conflicts and wars and has had to stand up and fight against invaders why can’t others fight for their country too.
Hmm! where’s COVID all of a sudden has it disappeared?
Why should Britain bare the brunt of bringing to our country lowly unskilled immigrants or refugees. I remember a person on a bus speaking to a Greek women who replied Oh! your from England lovely country they give out free money! It makes me furious Boris and his crew should be strung up they are very silly educated men with no thought for their own indigenous people. When are these hospitals going to be built that Boris Johnson promised? to me this is one selfish narcissistic government.
Britain in the past decades has had it’s fare share of conflicts and wars and has had to stand up and fight against invaders why can’t others fight for their country too.