Of course we need an European Army but a United One which is more highly reliable and effective instead a confederated one ..at least for the Eurozone !
And most importantly a United Europe .. at least for the Eurozone which are the founding fathers of the E.U. !
Elected Leaders in the E-Council should remember the speech of Winston Churchill from 1947 in Zürich about clearly a United States of Europe !
Now go ahead and seal the deal !

Yes we do!

Ein Volk
Ein Reich
Ein Führer

We know exactly where it ended…..

Actually the word “one ” is the point of my post. Both statements express a desire to unify power and control under one entity

But just for you, there are other similarities
Führer (leader) = Government
Reich (empire) = Union
Volk (people) =Army

For the record we haven’t thrown any immigrants out and as for protecting British values 100% spot on, because unlike many other countries our values are actually worth keeping

You first mentioned British values so I assume you have an idea what you were referring to?, though as you also mention populist in your post I imagine your only one step away from the usual “little Englander” rhetoric for anyone who disagrees with those craving “one-ness” (Ein-ness?)

I’m very aware of the leave campaign, I also know that a lot of sensible intelligent people voted leave and (blown out of proportion by the media) a very small minority of racist bigots abused a few immigrants following the result, please do not try and it is childish to try and infer they are all of one mentality
The leave campaign never threatened to throw out immigrants, only to control the amount entering the UK….. and as of yet no-one of any political persuasion has managed to say what benefit uncontrolled immigration delivers that controlled immigration could not …any ideas?

Actually, I know my country has many faults but I also know none of them are being made any better by membership of the EU

@George, what makes you think that? I’m an Englishman and I don’t panic about anything Europe does well, I’ve owned a bmw before and i think the reworking h&k did to the l85-a2 was remarkably good. So yet again you state an OPINION as FACT. Learn the difference!

Paul’s got his own version of reality ;-) Leave him alone.

@EU citizen, I’m very sorry to hear about such negative reactions. I would say that enquiring if somebody intends to stay is hardly the same as telling someone they need to leave, so not really sure how that’s an example of racism. The sad fact is that racism does still exist, and it exists everywhere (even on this forum I’ve seen plenty of examples of it). But I would point out that immigration control is important and it has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. It boils down to 2 key issues. A few years ago we had a financial wobble of some severity, this lead to a reduction in available job vacancies. This was made worse by David Cameron deciding that was the time to make huge cuts in public sector jobs. Yet despite this local shortfall in job vacancies, people were still coming to Britain on an uncontrolled level looking for work (they did not in many cases have a pre existing offer of employment, they came to an area where competition for work exceeded availability and increased that competition. That needs to be something that cannot happen again). The second point is frankly the UK is overpopulated. We have just under 1% of the total land mass of the EU and yet just under 8% of the population of the EU. Apart from anything else this is scaling up the cost of housing at a rate wages cannot match, but also without any form of birth rate limitation and an uncontrollable immigration situation it will lead to pressure to develop housing in our already shrinking green areas, the parts of this country that reflect it’s true beauty in my opinion. I voted leave, I did not think for a split second it would mean the instantaneous deportation (or eventual deportation) of every foreigner living here. I did and still do believe that anyone resident here will be granted a visa. As regards to my main reason for voting leave it had nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with my personal objections to the loss of independent rule I have seen in my life and concern over further reductions in sovereignty that I could foresee happening in the 40-? Years it would be before we were asked again if we were happy with the state of the EU. But think yourself fortunate that the racist encounters you refer to have been limited to verbal, still not acceptable by any stretch of the imagination, but far from being shot on sight and/or dumped in a mass grave as some victims of racism have been. I hope this is some consolation, as too I hope is the fact that I have in the passed criticised anybody for making racist comments within my earshot (culminating in me threatening to hit someone I have known for over twenty years if they didn’t stop) and I will continue to do so in the future. Perhaps we will get to utopia one day, for now though the UK is proportionately very tolerant of diversity. The statistics do back this up as much as statistics can be trusted. But so too do the majority of people living here.

@EU Citizen. I blame the ineptitude of the governments past for these problems, including being unable to adjust immigration levels as and when required. Ever agreeing to this situation was stark raving mad In my opinion. No rational person can blame somebody from (for example) moving to Britain with the promise of massively increased earnings and benefits such as the nhs available. And in times of economic growth this isn’t an issue in of itself, although it doesn’t still redress the population problem obviously. Although the housing policies of the past governments again could have eased this issue by making new york/dubai styled city high rise accommodation. In the 60’s we had lots of flats built, but they were done cheaply and looked like eyesores. As a result people hated them. Something more akin to big open plan space with plenty of glass fronts large balconies and underground parking I feel is the way to go for future developments of this kind.

And here is the UN’s verdict on the role of the Brexit campaign in this. I am no fan of the UN but I think they have got it right on this one. All that Brexit politicians have done in their talk about immigration and what Paul here is doing as well is to put hatred and xenophobia across in a way that makes it sound legitimate and acceptable for the purposes of a public discourse. Hatred without any rationale or actual arguments for the things that “immigration” has been blamed for. Shame.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37193140

A bit tetchy today aren’t we Yasmine?

I see you are regurgitating the usual EU propaganda about Brexit only being about immigration

But anyway, with regards to “the lazy, unemployable Brits” ……how about the unemployed Brits that cannot get a job because they have families, houses and other responsibilities and could not survive on a minimalist wage or live rent free in a caravan on a farm?…that is a reality, come and see for yourself instead of believing all the hype

And as already explained, my initial comment was based on the parallels in the use of the word “one” it was not me that started out comparing the actual context of the statements

@Paul X. How about the greedy landrods (most of them not EU) who put up rents despite having paid off their mortgages, how about greedy employers who want to pay less and less, how about money laundering in expensive residential properties? It really depends on how you want to look at it. I have had to hire people on several occasions and the Brits do have an advantage they are fluent in English and they have been raised here and know the etiquette (this is a massive advantage in most jobs). How can a Bulgarian or Romanian with no/little English steal your job, I mean you must be pretty bad, right? Unfortunately, there were barely any British candidates and the 2 of the 3 I had were even late for the interview and one came with a hangover (that was for a consultancy position by the way and fluent/native English was a must!).

I agree with many of the harsh statements from Yasmine, however, I have to admit that this is Britain and it is up to British people (all of them including the lazy ones) what kind of country they want to live in.

As to the comment about the fact that there have been Brits killed by EU nationals. It reminds of a conversation my mum had with my headteacher before I got accepted into primary school where my mum asked my headteacher whether she could recommend a more tolerant, open minded teacher and the headteacher replied to her “It is nobody’s fault you have a child like that”. My mum didn’t reply so I can go to the “prestigious school” despite my ethnicity but my point is don’t make hate crime/racism acceptable in any shape or form!

Paul, your assertion that someone living in a caravan, with poor language skills and a social stigma on them can go for the same job and successfully compete against someone local, with connections, perfect language skills, living in a safe and stable environment sums up the perversity of your claims and anti-foreign propaganda. And no it is not a British thing. It goes on everywhere. It’s biggest defender was Hitler.

As a follow up note, it’s my opinion that treating any crime as different based on the motives of the criminal (except possibly with regards to the reason of extenuating circumstances) is wrong. If someone was murdered in cold blood, that alone should be cause enough for public abhorrence. I personally feel it’s actually counterproductive to utopia (surely the world we all wish to build towards) to consider a crime, argument or any other interaction between two people of different backgrounds (be they racial, religious, or any other differences) to be motivated in any way by the fact of those differences. If we are truly to get rid of racism, surely we need to stop seeing it as race? To describe someone’s appearance should be the only time skin colour needs consideration, and in no way more significant then height, weight eye colour etc. Dr King put it more eloquently than me, and before me. But surely the fact this is not a new idea, and is so very obviously a good idea should mean by now it would have taken route in our lives?!

@ Yasmine, your points are completely off the mark. We are talking about low skilled jobs where the only requirement to be competitive is an acceptance of a lower wage

The “safe and stable environment” you refer to costs money, far more than the average unskilled farm worker will ever earn these days

The fact you consider what I’m saying is not a “British thing” is completely irrelevant, what I’m saying is fact, not propaganda, and no amount of emotional dribble can detract from that

And as for the “anti-foreign” accusation you really should grow up…. I have a good job working for a “foreign” company. I visit many “foreign” countries for business and pleasure. I love many “foreign” cultures and l have many “foreign” business and personal friends…but at the end of the day I’m perfectly entitled to be critical of EU policies which are detrimental to my country and I should be free to do that without the usual “racist, xenophobic etc” accusations which the pro-EU lobby are so fond of using against anyone who dares to disagree

I mean for gods sake you are “foreign” but if you could just manage to stop the anti-Brexit rhetoric for a day or two I’m sure even we could get on.. ;-)

@Positive EU/Brit

EU agriculture does not compete (fairly) on a global market due to CAP so you cannot say external influences are driving the need to look for cost savings… it is more of the case that a cheap source of labour is readily available and is being used as a means to increase profits.

If history is your guidance than Britain’s goal is the destruction of Europe. Which is pretty clear anyway.

@ Yasmine

Quote “you have been unable to show that you are not xenophobic”

Here in the UK we prefer to accuse people based on what they have done, rather than expect them prove what they haven’t done…..

…just another part of our culture we would like to preserve…….ciao :-)

it is call the USA

Why are you still here? Trigger Article 50 and keep quiet in European matters. What you are afraid of is what you going to get. Crumbling loudmouths.

@An European, what an absurd notion. If Scotland does leave the UK then the UK will simply stop basing it’s naval forces in Scotland. It won’t give it’s nuclear submarines away. Especially not to Scotland whose MP’s were all so vocally against having nuclear weaponry to begin with. As for UKIP getting elected (since EDL are not actually any more politically electable than the ira let’s focus on one group you mentioned that actually are a political party) it won’t happen. It will never happen unless the rest of the politicians do something even more stupid than any politician has ever done so far. Despite the fact the country wanted to leave the EU, and despite raising angst and anger towards the political establishment the UK’s population of neo nazi’s is small, UKIP are a broken clock, which is right twice a day and wrong the rest of the time.

How naive of you to think that. The US may well be the big player in NATO, but I wouldn’t think that NATO’s existence has ever once helped or hindered US foreign policy. And at least while NATO is still a thing Europe is assured US military support in the event of hostile invasion. I don’t think any ww3 Scenario would allow Europe the 2-3 year breathing space the US took to get pulled into the other two before Europe would be almost unpopulated or completely militarily controlled

Until nobody wants war, you still need a defence force as a minimum. Navies are very useful too, protection of commercial shipping, oil refineries, preventing smuggling and poaching & humanitarian/disaster relief efforts are all good reasons to have a navy. The only good reason not to right now is if you’re land-locked.

@Grant Scott
If you think USA dominance is bad, wait till you experience Russian dominance!

LOL!

Wasn’t Einstein instrumental in the Manhattan project?

To think the EU could “deal with” Russia without the aid of the US (or the UK) is naive beyond belief

It’s all very well spouting an anti-US rhetoric but if T-14’s start crossing an EU border everyone will need to still be uncle Sam’s best friend

Well soldiers, nobody doubts your Westpoint or Sandhust wisdom & war experience, but please do not forget to start and create enough hospitals, doctors, nurses and funeral parlors first before galloping into battle! PS: make a last “will” also!

Or is it all an April’s fools joke? There will never be an EU army- because there want be an EU by that time! (-:

@ Paul X:

I trust you and your family are going to sign up to be on the front line of the war created and exploited by their military machine? If not, why not? As you are so joined at the hip with their expansionism plans you would love to be part of it? If you are not a willing participant, then you expect others to sacrifice for you, are you not?

‘I’m deeply sorry men that I cannot be with you on this tremendous day of victory. However, I trust you are fully capable of doing your duty without me beside you today.’

And please don’t give me the John Wayne crap of the US saved the day for The UK with their continued debt, to this day have unpaid loans of billions in interest and their last minute entry into the horror show it became is another example of the pretend protection racket. They only joined after the Japs got involved at Pearl Harbour, what were they doing there I wonder? I suppose it did give them an opportunity to try out their atomic weapons on the cities of that country. Which they did ‘after,’ and I repeat, ‘after,’ Japan had verbally surrendered.

Besides, this raising of the last world war is used to deflect from the chaos and war they are creating and exploiting today. 70 years have gone by since that event and the USA has changed out of all recognition since then. Ask any of your American friends. Today it is a hell hole of unprincipled hegemony.

Catherine

To be fair I wasn’t putting so much emphasis on what America has done in the past but in relation to the topic of this thread, my main point is that even with an EU army Europe would still be incapable of defending itself without the assistance of the US

….and unfortunately I’m now beyond the age limit for signing up but I can assure you I have already done my bit

To be fair, they are there as a guarantor of a treaty they co-signed regarding Cypriot independence. Not under the guise of NATO, also Britain also maintains a garrison in Cyprus as another guarantor of the same treaty. It was actually a Greek lead invasion that legitimately threatens the lives/rights of the Turk-Cypriot minority that triggered Turkeys invasion. I’m aware the invasion was never ratified by the UN, but as a signatory state, they upheld their promises. It’s also almost certainly overdue for them to withdraw or at the least downscale the operation given the aggressive Greek government responsible has long since gone. . . . . . . but I think it vital to keep perspective rather than adopting a position of extreme opinion. Who can say how many deaths were prevented? Nobody knows, what would people have thought if Turkey had not intervened and all Turk-Cypriots had been massacred? Would you be condemning inaction just as loudly? Certainly Cyprus would have been independent no longer without Turkish intervention.

You weren’t asked !
You’re out of this union, brit. This no longer concerns you.

So in your opinion Europe (in the form of the EU) needs an aggressive foreign policy? Why else does it need an EU army to have this Unified foreign policy, so that must be what you mean.

Ci hanno sempre provato e hanno sempre fallito. Ah già giusto, un esercito europeo senza inglesi… Tanti auguri

Ussr seems to be making a recovery …

Angelos Triandos

Then who will stop Russia marching into Sofia ?, Brussels ? lol

Personally,I think Greece can hold the turks back,even with no help.And yes it will,if ever formed,sultan erDOGan can go screw himself.

Now i read the posts of others and that Greeks fear Turkey this days and still of the occupation of Cyprus 1974. – This needs attention and a special solution.

Greece is officially threaded with war from Turkey since 1986!! In fact many of the economic problems of Greece has to do with the military build up that started back then and continues even today.. Just think, Greece especially after 1996 crisis started the biggest re arming program since ww 2..and to be honest the way the things go, I can’t blame our politicians for that, after all in 1974 U. N and NATO didn’t want to help 1987 things was so bad that we started thinking about “last resort ” methods.. 1996 we were forced to give up our right to but our flag on our ground we even had to “thank the Americans “for that…. So after all these is only natural for the Greeks to feel “alone “