After Brexit, should we get ready for ‘Nexit’? Could the Netherlands follow Britain’s lead, and hold its own referendum on EU membership? Or are the Dutch much more comfortable with European citizenship than their island neighbours across the North Sea?
We had a comment sent in from Jill on our ‘Suggest a Debate’ page, asking whether more countries (including the Netherlands) should hold referendums on EU membership. We’ll be recording interviews on this topic, but we also wanted to throw it out to our audience: What do our other readers think?
The eurosceptic Dutch politician Geert Wilders, leader of the Party for Freedom, hopes to convince his fellow countrymen and women that life outside the EU is the place to be. Under current Dutch law, this is impossible (referendums can cover only new legislation and treaties, and are anyway only advisory). However, if Wilders’ party wins enough seats to lobby for the law to be changed, then it is not outside the realms of possibility…
Polling suggests that 53% of Dutch voters are against the idea of an EU referendum. However, much will depend on what happens to the Eurozone economy over the coming years, as well as how the Brexit votes impacts British fortunes. If the UK does nicely outside Europe, while EU economies stagnate, then it might make the exit door look more tempting.
Could the Netherlands ever hold a referendum on EU membership? Should more EU Member States follow the example of the UK, and hold referendums on EU membership? Would that be the democratic thing to do? Let us know your thoughts
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What would happen with BENELUX which was founded before the EU?😯
What would happen with BENELUX which was founded before the EU?😯
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Differently will if the migrant crisis or the Euro crisis start again & both look very likely, they are just one of five nations that could hold a vote and then leave the EU over the next year or so.
Sure it could be..what’s the wrong with
that ? Each country could ask for the same.We don’t.. our Constitution don’t allow the referendums such a brexit.
Better for that
We are just gaining status.
It’s up to the Netherlands.. I wish they remain.
I hope not .We in Europe are better together than apart and we should stick together,ignoring what populist politicians ( including my country’s ) say against the Eu whenever they search for a space goat to blame for their own shortcomings
I hope we will have a binding referendum around the subject.
With a result the Dutch and European politicians can`t ignore as they have done with all previous referenda.
Ofcourse, the EC wasn`t perfect, but the EU has brought us social and financial trouble unknown before to European countries.
The EU has to be reformed, but not by the current politicians like Verhofstadt who wish to transfer Europe into the United States of EU, because it`s proven since 2002, it doesn`t work.
Mr Sarto, the Dutch population still waits for a populist political promise of €1000,- for each citizen.
Promise done in campaign time. Not by Wilders, but the Dutch PM Rutte to get re elected
Not the first populist promise he broke:
No more money for Greece
The guilty ones for MH17 will be punished
And a number of Dutch internal issues.
He has been searching for space goats to blame for his mistakes.
So Your defenition for populist politicians has changed a bit here in Holland.
22/02/2017 Floris Mansvelt Beck, a lecturer in ethics and political philosophy at Leiden University, has responded to this comment.
22/02/2017 Caroline De Gruyter, author and journalist based in Vienna, and a European Affairs correspondent for the leading Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad, has responded to this comment.
Because EU changes and circumstances changes all the time every 20 years people in every EU memeber state should has referendum about staying or leaving EU. This would be highest level of democracy
100% agree
Yes, the Netherlands could hold a referendum. However, unlike in the UK, where hardly more than 3 out of 10 persons felt as EU citizens, 7 out of 10 Dutch identify as EU citizens (see Eurobarometer data). Moreover, only a minority (42%) of Dutch distrust the EU, which, again, is different from the UK, where 55% of respondents say that they distrust the EU as an institution. Therefore, I would be very surprised if the referendum would end with a Nexit. So, bring it on! No country should remain in the EU whose population doesn’t want to. The EU shouldn’t be a self-service store for nationalists who only want to be members when it’s convenient for them.
@Hector Niehues-Jeuffroy
Lol
@Hector Niehues-Jeuffroy
The UK was always at a disadvantage within the EU because when the EU was initially constructed it was not allowed to participate in said construction and thus Germany and to a greater extent France constructed a framework that was always hyper-beneficial to France and not necessarily good for the UK and indeed more importantly not necessarily good for the EU in the long run.
@Hector, I agree with your sentiment. No country should be forced to remain if their population is against it. I do think the EU has some major problems, and that if it continues to go on without addressing those issues that it will isolate more member state citizens and make them wish to leave.
When people around me in the UK were talking pre referendum, I didn’t want to influence their decision on what they wanted. So I merely pointed out that they either wanted to remain, which would lead the UK closer to Europe the superstate (perhaps not on the cards soon, but steps keep being made in that direction) or they’d want to live in a country where the people who decide our laws, rules and tax rates are directly answerable to the UK population. This is long term the only real question you need to ask. Financial crisis and terrorist epidemics will peak and crest regardless in the long run.
I couldn`t care less about EU funded or Soros controlled institutions with polls.
I rather check the opinion among workers and on the street.
That number 7 out of 10 changes as easily as the weather.
The Dutch are very angry about the easily paid annual fine by the EU because the Dutch economy does it it few euro`s better as expected.
Therefor I don`t believe the 42% distrusting either.
Let`s bring on the binding referendum!!
What the EC achieved in 60 years in Europe, has been distroyed by the EC in less as 10 years.
And the politicians are proud of that too!
Are you going to ask this ridiculous question for every remaining EU country? The Brits have their American and Australian brothers and sisters, the other European countries don’t. Unite or die.
@Belamie Versco
Please add New Zealand and Canada and more than a dozen British OTs to your list – a combined population bigger and far wealthier than the rump EU-27.
As far as I understood from the British media, are there close to 80 trade deals to be signed by London. Among these deals seems to be China.
A country which hasn`t an equal deal with the EU
Blunt analisys, not true.
Could the Netherlands ever hold a referendum on EU membership? – Yes it could. It has sovereignty over its own destiny!
Next question?
Could the Netherlands ever hold a referendum on EU membership?
Yes it could! It has sovereignty over its own destiny!
Next question?
Disagree.
Check the Juncker remarks:
No democratic choise will make any change to the EU policy. So when You`re in, You`ll have a hell of a time trying to get out.
Check the Juncker childish behavoir in the EP vs Farange.
Why not? EU cooperation is a very different chalise than EU federation.
There are “seven presidents” representing the EU institutions & nobody raises an alarm! That is a lot of wasted “brainpower”! Why do they remain onlookers & witness a piecemeal collapse?
Why are they wasting time & ignore the obvious grievances? Are they hoping for the best? Play hardball & call the critiques bluff? Bluff No 1 was called & backfired.
What is the least evil: risk a gradual collapse, accompanied by stagnation, uncertainty, insecurity, no growth, high unemployment, endless bickering & grandstanding- just to prove a point?
It only requires that some of the strong contributors- specifically the few EU net contributors to opt out & withhold their funds. This could reduce the EU budget to a level- to make the whole concept financially nonviable & dysfunctional.
Or- sit down with ALL stakeholders, address, try & fix these grievances- without preconditions and preempt a collapse? As long as bold leadership is absent- the EU will probably die a financial death- and with it the EU concept!. Here is another opinion & scenario:
http://moneymorning.com/2016/06/30/european-union-collapse-imminent-if-these-2-ticking-time-bombs-explode/
I’m not saying your statement is right or wrong, but it doesn’t exactly answer the question in either it’s literal form of could the Netherlands have a leave EU referendum, or the inferred question of is the Netherlands likely to leave the EU. For my part I would argue for their right to do so if they wish to.
Duncan, I choose not to be literally restricted by narrow DE questions/agendas. Those who are informed know that some countries are allowed referenda other are not! Those who don’t know can/should inform themselves. The trends however is that many try to follow the UK example- which I support- being the last resort to force reform. To go through the motion & repeat the same question for the remaining 26- is a waste of time! For me it’s the principle- be it one or 27! It is the EU concept which is in trouble- not the UK or NL.
The fact that you asked COULD instead of SHOULD worries me
EU collapse is impossible to prevent but we can punish those responsible for our tragedy and they are : “Arabs, Germans and church” . We should import oil and gas only from Russia , Norway , Canada and US . There is plenty of oil in Russia , Norway , Canada and US , that is enough until we have big percentage electric cars on our roads. After EU collapse we can simple import solar panels and electric cars from US , Japan and China . The tariffs on Chinese made solar panels range from 100% to 110% , we can have it 0% and 0% on electric cars . We don’t need Germany , we are going to boycott Germany until they remove Anghela and STOP financing their church : Chinese cars are superior to German cars and we don’t need Arab oil, PLEASE cancel your church membership and register as atheist , possible we can create new EU but only after we have destroyed church and made an END for Arab immigration , Germans manufacture dirty and expensive garbage compared to this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waiE1eso0LE
Forget Russia as an energy provider – it has a track record of threatening countries reliant on its energy imports!
Erm, not a fan of Germany then eh and pro-Russian too – hmm, strange…
How many atheist states are there BTW?
Wouldn’t an atheist state be as bad as a theist state?
If the law in the the Netherlands allows a referendum, they could do.
Does dutch or europeans have to follow the britons or just leave them alone?
Stop telling us what to do has a different meaning to leave us alone. Britain didn’t vote to relocate the country further into the Atlantic. I think the key point is NOT should everyone in the EU leave it now Britain has left it. The key issue is why did Britain leave, what can we do to change how we do things so that other countries won’t want to leave? Cooperation does not require conformity on any other factor than willingness to cooperate. And yet people still think that people opposed to what the EU is/is becoming are all isolationist racists. If the Netherlands want to leave the EU, it won’t be because they wat to join the UK, it will be because they want to leave the EU.
Do dutch or europeans have to follow the brexit or just leave them alone?
Britain did not leave just loudmoutheted
Britain will leave. It’s just not happening expediently. Even if the EU makes monumental reforms now, it’s still too late for Britain to remain in. Sadly we only get asked every 40 or so years what we want, which means we’ll be out for a long time even if the EU becomes more appealing to us, and decides it wants us back.
Kiki Aerts I burn your house with you inside (maybe I should go to the doctor or something jajaja)
Ofcourse the Netherlands can have a Referendum on this, the real question is will they have the audacity to demand their right to so!
Ofcourse if you go lile a child to mama to ask for permission the answer of the Classe Politique in the Netherlands and the EU will be NO, THEY MUST DEMAND IT.
NO.
I’ll tell you what will happen if they were ever stupid enough to vote to leave.
There won’t be two tedious years of negotiations as there will be with the U.K.The Brussels oligarchs will want to make an example of them and just kick them out with no deals or agreements,something they can’t do with the way more powerful United Kingdom.
Wow, so you’re saying the EU would disregard it’s own legislation? At that point anyone who doesn’t want out may want a brain scan!
Oh Duncan, believe me there’s nothing they won’t do to keep this crazy train on the tracks.They would love to be able to punish the U.K if they could.
There overwhelming fear is that Britain could actually flourish outside the E.U,so they need some small irrelevant nation that dares to want to leave to use as a whipping boy to frighten the others into staying onboard.
The UK is bound to flourish irrespective of EU membership, despite the negative forecasters. We created an empire through a desire to trade, when we removed ourselves as imperialist masters we established the commonwealth to maintain trade relations and whenever European nations have fought one another in large volume thus threatening our trade we have intervened militarily ourselves. Trade has been the cornerstone of the UK since it’s birth. There’s no way a trade orientated country will financially crumble. We still suffer from slumps, but they always pass.
l’Olanda non è stato il Paese che bocciò la Costituzione europea ? Eppure passò uguale non come Costituzione europea ma come Trattato di Lisbona che è lo stesso identico testo con qualche modifica . Il Trattato passa senza referendum la Costituzione no . Ci sono i tecnocrati maghi che fanno queste magie . Noi non possiamo far il referendum sui Trattati internazionali per cui inutile dire
l’Olanda non è stato il Paese che bocciò la Costituzione europea ? Eppure passò uguale non come Costituzione europea ma come Trattato di Lisbona che è lo stesso identico testo con qualche modifica . Il Trattato passa senza referendum la Costituzione no . Ci sono i tecnocrati maghi che fanno queste magie . Noi non possiamo far il referendum sui Trattati internazionali per cui inutile dire
Hell yes and ASAP! :D
What would be the point…? National governments don’t act on these referenda…they’re good fun but ultimately people know which side their bread is buttered. Membership referenda are good for countries that haven’t join yet but have to decide whether they will.
Britain is not European, and so parallel narratives can’t be drawn.
Excuse me? My geography teachers, atlas and google maps are all liars then?
Yes, a popular misconception spread by europhiles everywhere. The EU is not and never will be “Europe”
Europe has been a continent for centuries, the EU has been an elitist political organisation trying to establish rule over Europe for a pathetic few decades
I dont know who thinks these questions up, but whoever did, do your research.
The dutch had a referendum, brussels lost , and lo and behold they ignord the results. Referendums are fine if they are respected. Problem is europhiles dont like to loose , so they will spin it this way and that, whine ,mope, and threaten with eternal economic doom .
We in the netherlands know polls are biased, Holland is waking up, our mainstream political parties are all part of the same click (alde group) , all other non-europhile parties and thier supporters are made to look lower/lesser than the ruling europhile!!
Lets see if europhiles in ned have one democratic bone in their bodies, put your money where your democratic mouths are ..
Dont act like the wimp Pectold!
Try an in/out referendum in the netherlands and see what happens , i dare ya.
I suport The Dutch People popular vote. EU legitimacy depends on it. The Dutch People need were played fool once. It need’s justice.
They are not allowed!
Yes EU democracy, its a wonderful thing.
Because it doesn`t excist?
Front National leader Marine Le Pen has pledged to hold a French referendum if she emerges victorious in next year’s presidential elections. While for the past two months a Nexit has been on the cards after Dutch voters overwhelmingly rejected a Ukraine-European Union treaty
Russia will pay gazillions to make that happen
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Of course they will, now the truth of the great EU lie is known people reject it, but my money is on Frexit and Italexit being next.
Neah, now that UK is out EU can finally go full speed and federalise !
United we stand, divided we fall !
Please register on jobsallovereurope, to find your dream job.. just for free!!
Amsterdam will be the new city of the EU. I don’t think they will go anywhere!
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The EU promised to bring peace, prosperity and employment. It has given people fear, austerity, mass migration and mass unemployment while stealing their democracy & their dignity.
It is time to end the madness, End the EU.
Hope not.
Are you kidding? What would be of Holland without the EU?! How would they steal taxes from other countries and what would they do with their ports? For southern europe Holland leaving would be a blessing!
NO! They won’t be as foolish as someone else has been and regretting it already. Besides the Netherlands are less working class and education is affordable, unlike Victorian England. Oops I said it
There’s only one populist party, which has been cordon sanitaire’d by the majority of the political parties. The BeNeLux-coorperation stood model for modern EU.
We’re not going anywhere.
No.
Fully agree, Ruben. BENELUX inspired the EU. BENELUX was and is harmony and understanding between nations. The EU should not forget it. I don’t think the Netherlands would leave BENELUX. If so, it would mean that also Belgium and Luxemburg would have to leave. A return to the past. Better try to improve the EU instead of leaving. Escaping from the problems never is a solution.
HOPE SO !!!!!!!!!!!! AND SOON GREXIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it’s a very bad sign when any country’s elite becomes terrified of holding a referendum. Perhaps they should do a better job governing.
I live in Holland and I can’t wait for the day we get out of the Eurozone and the EU!!!
Let’s hold a referendum on a United States of Europe instead and call it Good USE. :-D
You liberals would lose that referendum and you would lose it badly!!!Maybe if you import few more millions of Muslims then maybe…
Any country could ask for to stay or for to leave.
You aren’t obliged to do that.
Some countries are leaving..others are waiting to join the EU.
An example” if the Romania ask to leave as I supposed… it will be replaced by the Serbia.
IF YOU’RE COME IN WITH negatives notes..better you leave…because it could make too many noises that
the EU cannot afford.
Sorry for my English but today I feel myself better.
It’s up to us.. otherwise we don’t have to worry if the Muslims are growing up…that’s because we all are subdivided.. subdivision everywhere.. in the high school.. in the shopping malls..in the basement bars..conform or be cast out.
The Muslims aren’t so.
Carma Steitieh you never know
STOP!!! It should not leave the Nederlands next. It should be Spain leaving next!!!!!
put in jail al corrupted politician at states EU.
I’m in the Netherlands now. I don’t think people are stupid enough to vote to leave the EU here.
Yes, why not?
That would be great :D
I personally think we should yourself strong alliance! History proves that we can be strong to unity.Hope that the Netherlands will not separate. unityOnce I see here is an article written about unity is strength:
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Its a certainty.
The brexit troll again 😂 how it’s working for you? You got the money they promised you? Are all the immigrants gone? 😂😂😂
Γιωργος Πατερας (Troll)
I think you should look up the definition of ‘troll’ before insulting people comrade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
no it isn’t. Dutch constitution prohibits referenda on existing treaties. do your fucking homework.
EU needs to have a huge change. Current model might colapse soon. Even what little we have off freedom of speech is being destroyed.
What? Freedom of speech is a growing factor, and proof of that is Brexit, Trump and so on.
In UK that is leaving but i m talking about blashemy laws and critique of religion or even migrants that is still great factor in EU and even UK. Also cowering up crime etc. Freedom of speech is in serilus jeopardy….what little we have left
Mean joke can easily cost you your job. This should not be possible in free society
Present EU has not any legal authorization.It is administered according external illegal orders against its signed treaties.Every country must hold a referedum after total information for the situation
I hope not…but to reform the E.U. yes….and get rid of decisions taken in Brussels without the consent of the different states.
Jude De Froissard
The Lisbon treaty does not allow for any changes to the current Brussels centric system so the only solution is to leave the EU.
In democratic countries and politics….there is no “does not allow”
You mean the decisions taken by the EU PM? Because the EC and the Parliament have no power.
Dutch constitution prohibits referenda on existing treaties. so they can’t.
13/02/2017 Dr. Stijn van Kessel, a lecturer in Politics at Loughborough University in the UK and an expert on populism in the Netherlands, has responded to this comment.
13/02/2017 Dr. Gijs Schumacher, an Assistant Professor of Political Science at the University of Amsterdam, has responded to this comment.
Jude De Froissard
Unelected president Juncker has made it perfectly clear, there will be no change to the Lisbon Treaty, so you will be ruled from Brussels no matter what National leaders or their people want.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11537057/Juncker-blocks-EU-treaty-negotiations-until-after-2019.html
To put things right in this thread, some EU information: The Commission proposes legislation that has been requested by the European Council… So 1) the European Council is the ELECTED heads of states and governments (democratic) – then the commission proposes a text and the legislation goes to the European Parliament – which is democratically elected every five years in all the member states and also to the Council which is all the ministers in charge of the area of legislation meeting and negotiating (acting like a second chamber of legislation in this case) – they are also democratic, I think if they are the ministers of the member states. The European Parliament and the Council discuss and amend the proposal and can approve it with the changes or reject it if they don’t like it, Some legislation needs a majority (majority of number of people and majority of member states) but other decisions which are not yet “European” need the unanimity in the Council – ALL member states need to say yes. I don’t find this process that undemocratic… Plus all these ministers make a decision then go back to their member states and say “it’s Brussels’s fault” although they voted for it in the Council – Brussels bashing has become a sport for politicians who want to get popular in their countries and that is not right…
I hope not…but to reform the E.U. yes….and get rid of decisions taken in Brussels without the consent of the different states.
Get out of the euromark is more important.keep the euro as an international echange currency..not as a national currency .
Dutch constitution prohibits referenda on existing treaties. so they can’t.
Let the Dutch have a referendum on EU membership. I have lived there for three years and I am more than confident that they will vote to stay. The last poll in June 2016 (prior to Brexit) found that 64% of Dutch would vote against leaving the EU. Considering how messy Brexit sets out to be, I cannot imagine that these numbers have substantially declined since then, rather the opposite. A referendum supporting EU membership would shut up Wilders for the foreseeable future and give much-needed backing to the EU.
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I seem to remember pro EU fanatics saying the Brit’s would never leave the EU too, you were wrong then & you are wrong now.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/netherlands-geert-wilders-politics-far-right
@Ivan Burrows: Burrows, most opinion polls between early 2014 and mid-2016 showed Remain in the lead (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg), so it was a reasonable expectation that Britain would remain. Well, Britain will leave and, while I pity the Remainers stuck with the likes of you on that island, I will have a good laugh if Scotland secedes or Northern Ireland reunites with Eire.
Regarding the Netherlands, you have nothing to contradict my arguments. Even if Wilders wins the relative majority, VVD, PvdA and D66 have already announced that they would form a coalition to counter him. And if against all odds VVD and PVV would form a government, I don’t dread a Nexit referendum since, unlike most Brits, the Dutch do actually feel a commitment to a united Europe.
Hector Niehues-Jeuffroy .
And yet we are still leaving. I think you have just agreed with me lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Hector, although your reasoning is great, as a Dutch citizen i can definitely tell you anti-EU sentiments have been growing for quite a while now
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I seem to remember pro EU fanatics saying the Brit’s would never leave the EU too, you were wrong then & you are wrong now.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/netherlands-geert-wilders-politics-far-right
With the course the EU has taken, this is an inevitability. And more countries will do the same
Dutch constitution prohibits referenda on existing treaties.
aww, how sad. he feels threatened by other opinions and interprets that as being limited in his freedoms. Grow the fuck up, and be thankful you live in freedom
Dutch constitution prohibits referenda on existing treaties.
Also, the fact that wilders “leads” doesn’t mean shit- there’s still a coalition to form and no party is willing to work with him because right-wingers can’t cooperate with anyone. It’s called a coalition and I don’t expect you to know what that means, so refer to my earlier reply to you and:
DO YOUR FUCKING HOMEWORK
The financial system that has a strangle hold on nearly all people and nearly all countries globally will still remain causing suffering even if the EU collapses. Address the root of all problems: the banking & financial system. Individual governments & the EU are enabling them. Change the financial and banking system.
What would you change about it?
Independent and reputable Economists have many solutions. Check out http://positivemoney.org, or read about the model Guernsey used (the Queens island) by printing their own money http://www.michaeljournal.org/articles/monetary-reform/item/guernsey-s-monetary-experiment and the still profitable Islamic interest-free banking model. I am sure economists can use a combination of all these plus logical sense to come up with a new financial and banking system in this new digital age. We must keep improving and evolving in a kinder all inclusive direction.
The financial system that has a strangle hold on nearly all people and nearly all countries globally will still remain causing suffering even if the EU collapses. Address the root of all problems: the banking & financial system. Individual governments & the EU are enabling them. Change the financial and banking system.
so…what exactly would be the Netherlands’ financial, economic, and geopolitical plan for achieving anything whatsoever? They aren’t a large trading nation with any relevant level of foreign influence. what’s their plan?
Something like benelux. Treaties with the UK.. So much that countries can use on their benefit instead of being deutschland vassals.. Hope the Portuguese open their eyes.. the sooner the better..
Please destroy E.C….!!!
I would worry less about them wanting a referendum on EU membership than what the hell is being unleashed in the Netherlands if they vote in this foul nazi creature.
Tina Davey Butcher
You pro EU fanatics really hate democracy don’t you.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/netherlands-geert-wilders-politics-far-right
Ivan Burrows I hate the far right neo nazis, it is obvious you are one of them. Research history, you will always be defeated.
http://remainvisual.co.uk/2017/01/22/resistance-an-east-end-girls-story/ Ivan Burrows, see how history sees you, did you picket at Heathrow?
Positively EU (Quisling)
You are the fascist by trying to overturn or ignore the result of the democratic referendum.
But you are right about history, the British have always rejected totalitarianism & always will do..
Mosley wanted to the British people to be ruled from Berlin.
Philby wanted the British people to be ruled from Moscow.
You want want the British people to be ruled from Brussels.
Your predecessors failed & so will you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Hes against SJW Nazis/Commies and authoritarianism. Seems youre not
Ivan Burrows quitling. History defeated you in the last century, right minded decent people resist you again now.
Jeremy Bornstein ‘you’re
Positively EU .
History defeated me ?, I think you will find we won the last war against crazed Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe & we will do again. :)
I strongly believe EU countries should work on the changes and the improvement of EU instead considering to leave, why any country wants to go back to small itself in today’s competetive global market, what exactly can be advantage of such position??
dificult concept to expain to small minded people
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The Lisbon treaty does not allow for any changes to the current Brussels centric system so the only solution is to leave the EU.
the centric system could be an issue of not only a union but any country, and there must be a way to evolve with time to serve better its citizents, afer all system is about people not opposite..and i’m not sure any of the party voting for exit is ready to take responsibility for the outcome, for causing instability and struggle which is already present in a way..
National sovereignty. My grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought for their National State. I won’t recognise the German 4th Reich called EU.
I would bet on France! Germany would not be first, but this is also possible in near future.
You should try your bets on the horses you can make a fortune very quickly.
We dont have a horses or a hippodrome here. Everything is robbed here :) I can not bet on horses if you are betting I can suggest you this. There is a good chance and coefficient is good :)
The UK has lost credibility in exiting the EU, if you have a treaty you should abide with it or change what has to be changed with the consent of other. Any agreement made by UK is not worth the paper it is written on.
Vincent Lia
Any agreement must be by consent of the people, does Brussels have the consent of the peoples of the EU to enforce the European constitution (Lisbon treaty) ?
By your own admission the EU has no democratic legitimacy or creditability and therefore any agreement with the EU isn’t worth the paper its written on.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4592243.stm
Where did I say that EU has no democratic legitimacy? What I said above is that UK has lost credibility by putting a referendum to a treaty that has been accepted by UK with a huge majority and now it is being cancelled at the whim of a small majority. Would you sign an agreement with someone that cannot keep his or her work?
Vincent Lia
Your reasoning for claiming the UK has no credibility applies far more to the EU than the UK.
You support an antidemocratic structure designed to trap Nations within it while I believe in freedom, democracy & self determination..
We know we were lied to back in 1973 & the lies just kept coming, this was put right in 2016.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXFssBHnRE
http://www.euractiv.com/section/euro-finance/news/ecb-any-country-leaving-eurozone-must-settle-bill-first/
Ivan Burrows UK has broken an agreement and that is not seen as a good thing when it comes to negotiating with other countries you just lose credibility. As for sovereignty UK has always been sovereign and so has all the other states, was it that not so UK would not have been able to decide to leave not even with the consent of its own people and the people of its dominions. Whatever the EU did was with the full consent of the UK parliament.
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It would be worth it just to wipe that smug look off Frans Timmermans face.
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The real remoaners.
https://www.facebook.com/ivan.burrows.370/posts/725312140979838?theater
NO
What a hair!!
Maybe not “Nexit” but would put the EU in a dificult position. The EU sgould realise that’s doing something wrong when legitimated politicians want to leave the club.
I think it’s time for the EU politicians to proceed in creating Helmut Kohl’s vision of a true United Europe, this setup won’t last for long and trust me as a youngster living in Greece there are more important problems to solve which in turn aggravate Populism.
I listened to his speech,hes anti EU but pro Europe. Junker praises commies like Castro. Keyboard warriors here need to see reality for what it is and take the red pill.
Positively EU (Quisling)
You are the fascist by trying to overturn or ignore the result of the democratic referendum.
But you are right about history, the British have always rejected totalitarianism & always will do..
Mosley wanted to the British people to be ruled from Berlin.
Philby wanted the British people to be ruled from Moscow.
You want want the British people to be ruled from Brussels.
Your predecessors failed & so will you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Funny considering hes more Jewish than me and im a secular Jew
Vincent Lia
Your reasoning for claiming the UK has no credibility applies far more to the EU than the UK.
You support an antidemocratic structure designed to trap Nations within it while I believe in freedom, democracy & self determination..
We know we were lied to back in 1973 & the lies just kept coming, this was put right in 2016.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXFssBHnRE
http://www.euractiv.com/section/euro-finance/news/ecb-any-country-leaving-eurozone-must-settle-bill-first/
The brexit troll again ? how it’s working for you? You got the money they promised you? Are all the immigrants gone? ???
The Netherlands is a coalition country and even with current polls with wilders in the lead. There is not even close to a majority for a referendum like this.
The Netherlands is a coalition country and even with current polls with wilders in the lead. There is not even close to a majority for a referendum like this. Nobody really likes the way the union functions today the problem is that we disargree in how it needs to be reformed.
Γιωργος Πατερας (Troll)
I think you should look up the definition of ‘troll’ before insulting people comrade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
well, maybe he should try to put in a map Europe first… and, in any case, with Netherlands, that corporation tax heaven, outside the EU, the worst part would be for the Netherlands itself.
I hope this racist has no success, because it’s a great country in any case, and he would ruin it.
Surely it’s up to EU to sort things out otherwise they won’t have any country s left
Why not.
Damn Europeans, they ruin Europe…only the bad ones, everyone that looks like me, talks like, dresses like me and believes in exactly what I believe is good
Damn Europeans, they ruin Europe…only the bad ones, everyone that looks like me, talks like, dresses like me and believes in exactly what I believe is good
Hopefully there will be enough time for the Dutch to watch the UK hobble itself to have a good hard think about what they’re actually wishing for. But yeah. I’m not looking forward to hearing the outcome of next March’s election.
yes !
The guy is facing accusations for discrimination and racism ! :p
Carma Steitieh ???
allah ybashrak
sob7an allah bass turkey sar bedha tfoot kol 7ada tele3 HAHAHHA
This question is framed in a somewhat ignorant way because the UK is different from the rest of Europe, it always was. The Brits never really identified themselves as Europeans in any polls taken, as opposed to those peoples in Europe (including the Dutch) who identified themselves strongly as European even prior to the EU. While it is true that the EU has problems with too much spending, overall the EU is working as an economic organization/union.
The problem is that the EU, as a union, does not really control or defend Europe’s borders or peoples. This allowed the refugee crisis to happen, which is what has provoked so much fear and backlash in most European countries: it is why the populists have had such a strong showing in European countries. It is not, however, the reason the Brits left. The Brits left because the older white generations in Britain are tired of seeing so many foreign faces, and they thought voting for Brexit would change this. In actuality of course, Britain’s white population is decreasing fairly quickly, which means economically that they need immigration, which means that the Poles and Hungarians will be replaced by immigrants from Pakistan and India.
i would hope the dutch would have more sense, t hey struck me as articulate, well educated, multi lingual and a good sense of humour, let’s hope that prevails.
And leave the goldmine that is to steal otehr countries taxes?! Don’t think so!
O Panama nao faz parte da EU…
Porque achas que as empresas europeias preferem a Holanda? Porque um empresa com sede no Panamá não beneficia do regime de tratamento igual dentro da UE e pode ser – caso não haja acordos a afastarem – duplamente tributada! Ter sede no Panamá e ter ter sede na Holanda são duas realidades completamente distintas!
Nao digo o contrario.
Apenas que beneficios fiscais nao ha so dentro da EU.
A Holanda, Luxemburgo e Irlanda são prácticamente offshores legais na UE.
… e a Bélgica também!
But would be great if all these offshores would leave.
Porque achas que as empresas europeias preferem a Holanda? Porque um empresa com sede no Panamá não beneficia do regime de tratamento igual dentro da UE e pode ser – caso não haja acordos a afastarem – duplamente tributada! Ter sede no Panamá e ter ter sede na Holanda são duas realidades completamente distintas!
What is wrong with leaving EU system ? We were not born as EU members ! We did not starve we did not live on the trees nor in igloos before !!!! It was even better .
100%right
We should forbid blond people in politics. The debate would be less sexy, but maybe more democratic :-P Jasmin Ladurner Irina Knyazeva Katharina Schaufler
then 70 years of peace is too long? EU was made for peace after the WWII, forgotten??? Now just wait when the EU collapses and right wing parties take over. 1933 the first thing Hitler did was to boost military industry – want to bet what happens after 2017?
Maybe all countries should? Maybe the EU bureaucracy should experience some fear of becoming dissolved, so it actuallly operates in the interest of EU citizens?
Not gonna happen. The Netherlands has a multiparty system in which multiple parties have to form a coalition and simply no one party wants to govern with Wilders. So even though he is leading the polls, his position in the coalition is not guaranteed. And luckily we have other political parties who do acknowledge the importance of a strong Union. The Netherlands has always been in favour of international cooperation and trade and most parties still promote this. Wilders on the other hand is only sowing fear and hatred, but does not have any solutions to the real challenges facing Europe.
14/03/2017 Henk te Velde, Professor of Dutch History at the Leiden University Institute for History, has responded to this comment.
14/03/2017 Tom van der Meer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Amsterdam, has responded to this comment.
Maybe. They want to protect the best tax heaven in the world ;)
Positively EU .
History defeated me ?, I think you will find we won the last war against crazed Europeans with a flag and a plan to unite Europe & we will do again. :)
https://www.facebook.com/ivan.burrows.370/videos/vb.100005031758493/433916470119408/?type=2&theater
And France
Not a chance!
A Holanda, Luxemburgo e Irlanda são prácticamente offshores legais na UE.
… e a Bélgica também!
Goran
Let us hope and pray.
An Exit EU referendum means the people wish to give up European independence for hegemonic protection. As we have already seen that Poland openly called to pay for the construction of a military base name after a crazy old fool Donald Trump. What sovereignty means to this particular Polish leader, when a state offers foreign troops to walk over ones own territory even in time of peace?
Please take a look at the UK GDP “growth” since the referendum and check the growth of those who wish to remain in the EU before risking your own. It is expected that in March when the UK has official left EU, its economy i.e. the people is going to suffer even further.
Hey
Netherlands is located in Europe. Netherlands is considered to be a developed nation. The developmental stage of a nation is determined by a number of factors including, but not limited to, economic prosperity, life expectancy, income equality, and quality of life.
Currently Netherlands faces various issues, including water pollution in the form of heavy metals, organic compounds, and nutrients such as nitrates and phosphates, air pollution from vehicles and refining activities, acid rain.
Thanks
http://www.confiduss.com/en/jurisdictions/netherlands/