Sovereignty, what is it good for, eh? It’s not the sexiest topic in the world, but it’s one that often comes up when discussing the European Union. In a globalised world, does it make sense for EU countries to “pool” some of their sovereignty in order to keep hold of the rest? Or is sovereignty a black-and-white issue (you either have it or you don’t)?
According to Dr. Hiski Haukkala, Associate Professor of International Relations at the School of Management at Finland’s University of Tampere, sovereignty is both a political practice and a legal concept entailing the recognised equality and supreme authority and autonomy of territorially bound states in the international system. Which is quite a mouthful.
For some of our readers, sovereignty is under threat in the 21st Century. We had a comment sent in from Joaquim arguing that “there is no sovereignty anymore” in Europe because the EU forces small countries to do what large countries want.
To get a response, we spoke to Dr. Hiski Haukkala from the University of Tampere: Is Joaquim right to argue that international organisations and agreements are incompatible with the concept of national sovereignty?
No it is not. It is through the use of their sovereignty that states enter into international arrangements. They do not lose their sovereignty but on the contrary usually re-affirming it in the process. Even pooling sovereignty á la the EU does not entail an irrevocable loss of sovereignty. For example, the problems in the EU’s immigration policies and Schengen system have ‘forced’ many member states to exercise national sovereignty by adopting national measures concerning the issues.
On the other side of the coin, we had a comment from Fenris arguing that European states could use the EU to “strengthen their sovereignty”.
Can European states strengthen their sovereignty through the European Union? Or are legal and political powers given up to the European level lost for good? How would Dr. Haukkala respond?
The key problem in the case of the EU is that perhaps to a degree this ‘pooled’ sovereignty has ‘vanished’ in the process, i.e. failing to crystallize into a credible actorness (let alone formal sovereignty) on the EU level. It is this failure that creates the temptation to go back to national level politics and responses. It remains to be seen whether this will work. My feeling is that it will not.
If going back to the national level might not work, could we try the opposite? We had a comment from Peter suggesting that EU Member States should start the process of “sovereign mitigation to a truly European sovereignty”.
Is that just an idealistic pipe dream? What did Dr. Haukkala think it would take to create a “European sovereignty”?
Is sovereignty still relevant in the 21st Century? Can European states strengthen their sovereignty through the EU? What will it take to create a “European sovereignty”? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!
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HAHAHAH yes sure😂😂😂
For sure that is stupid question
No it’s very important Question
Obviously still matters. The borders are still there. Countries like China, India, Russia, the entire western blocs have huge monopoly over rest of the world, we are being rulled by positive bloodlines and the negative bloodlines are deliberately being destroyed and kept away from any triumph and progress unless they are connected to royals and politicians, there is no balance of negative blood in compare with positive ones, most countries have millions immigrants and accepted diversity of all different type of race except the mono country CHINA who are only in favour of white Europeans and Middle Eastern so that they could spread their genes to every nation and nationality on earth and make us all look chinese or mix with Mongolian genes so that alternatively there would be two race left !! Black African and chinese or mongolians!! So that they could be in charge of negative bloodline over their gifts and wealth. Therefore, sovereignty hugely matter, because without it, the Mongols will destroy humanity just to keep their own “PROUD” race! One look into how China and Japan are carelessly and brutally treating the world and nature for their own advantage should remind us all of the importance of sovereignty
the artIcle is about the EU
This is racism!
why it would not? :-)
you think racism is differences?
The European Union – EU Member State should give more sovereignty to Brussels, this including the powerful Germany. Brussels should give orders to Berlin and not vice versa. Merkel should stop dictating to other Countries what to do, Brussels should. This is the only way to achieve a functioning Federation like the United States of America. Language barriers should be overcome by mandatory use of a common language, English seems to be the best suitable candidate to to its global nature.
I think that Merkel cannot be dictating other countries if Hollande and Cameron are not supporting her.
Why using English as a common language? Isn’t this type of thinking outdated when the whole world is emphasizing pluralism? Why other great languages like French need to give way to English?
@Jane
FYI:
The EU is about destroying pluralism.
China is pushing monoculturalism.
India is pushing monoculturalism.
French is declining.
Furthermore, French is a language that systemically and bizarrely ‘genderises’ inanimate objects and thus in the 21st century with political correctness et al its days as-is are numbered.
English is the most European of languages having almost equal etymological input from French, German and Italian sources.
English is 4x bigger than French, it is more dynamic, reactive and acquisitive than French and currently, it is the de facto language of technology, science, business, academia and travel.
When the UK votes to stay in the EU on June 23rd 2016, then TTIP will follow and then French language usage will decline to levels far below its current number 10 position as a spoken world language.
C’est la vie!
I totally agree. I’m sure that a stronger union even a federation is our one and only future.
They should do nothing of the kind.
“Brussels should give `orders’ to Berlin”? That almost gave me a heart attack, it is precisely what the EU should not be.
That would be the realisation of the pipe dream you also mention: a federalisation of Europe, something EU citizens in majority do not want.
And you even go so far as to give the USA as example of what we should become? That is /not/ making your case better.
The EU started as a trade bloc. And it is both there where it has shown it greatest advantages, and where most EU citizens want it to stop. The EU has gone too far already, it is time to retrace steps and strengthen cooperation where it matters and where it is wanted.
Very well said, thank you. The problem is that many Brussel’s administrators are German and therefore German dominated. What Hitler could not achieve Merkel is trying to, so far without a single shot of a gun !
It’s not
For backward people, it is. For people who live in 21. century, no it is not :3
Dino,why are you so keen to hand control of your finances,taxes,who you allow into your region,country.Do you really honestly trust others to act more in your interests than you yourself would.
Would you let your neighbour control your personal finances,run your bussiness,decide where your children go to school.
No,I thought not,so again why are you so keen toallow others control your life from another country whose ideals,culture,and lifestyle may not be compatible with your own……..just curious.
Identity will be always important, and despite the growing importance of regions, the state is still necessary as a “management tool”. – in the end we do not question (yet) whether families should have sovereignty, so the same may well apply to states.
The real question should be:
Is it needed a greater shift of sovereignty from the MS to EU in order to tackle the big globalized issues (migration, conflict in Syria, energetic demand, etc)?
yes i agree and applauded with both hands !
Benny Santoro has good suggestion. However, global issue needs to be resolved globally, why EU has to confront it itself? May be the UN needs to do more than just lip service. Besides, the Syrian civil war is fabricated by the Americans.
Belgium was created by the British/ Hannoverian élites fifteen years after the Battle of Waterloo, and there are NO EU flags flying on any buildings whatsoever in the UK apart from the EU countries’ embassies – that should make you think about sovreignty.
Silly question for sure!!!
No. Sovereignty depends on interests, power and resources. The foreign policy of some countries and organisations are very clear about that…
Well if most European countries werent souvereign mama merkel would have brougth millions of third world freeriders there like half a year ago. That’s what beeing sovereign is about^^
Obviously it is, otherwise Brussels would not be pressuring our states to ROBE them from their sovereignty WITHOUT our consent. For a country like mine, where sovereignty has meant everything and is the reason of every policy, this wuestion is quite stupide and just one more reason why we should leave the EU as soon as possible!
Bravo Jose
Yes it is.
Well, it better be, because a viable alternative didn’t show up yet. And don’t tell me the EU is…because as a matter of fact it’s still just an economic and social union, not as political one and, and at this rate it never will be.
it is and it should be
No it!s not, but respect is
The question is are you proud of your country or are you happy to see it merged into one large uninspiring landmass without identity?
Unfortunately it is not politically correct these days to claim national sovereignty should overrule the EU, to do so leads to all sorts of accusations of being a dangerous Nationalist who wants to take Europe back to it’s dark old days
I’m proud of my country, I often travel to Europe and it doesn’t bother me at all that I have to exchange currency or to show a passport. The blue flag with stars on doesn’t install any sense of pride to me and neither does some second rate Beethoven tune. I think British law is better than any in Europe, our plug sockets are safer and our cucumbers are bent…so what?, as far as I’m concerned it’s time EU stopped wasting taxpayers money trying to indoctrinate people into being “Good Europeans”
@Paul X
I agree almost 100% with you.
My only slight difference is that when as a UK citizen I see the EU stars I see:
Corruption,
Lack of democracy,
Unaccountability and
[UNNECESSARY] Association with some of the poo-est nations in the world.
What is irrelevant is to ask such a question nowadays…..especially when we even have some regions of countries asking for more autonomy or indépendance.
if to the people you take away the economic sovereignty of what else we can talk? This is the EU and this has made. Not only has taken off, but it is not sovereign nor the European Parliament only EU body eletto.Ma we realize what we have created ??? Destruction of all peoples, for what? There are the United States Of Europe, we do not exist and we have the right to decide our future
I believe nationality is an out-dated concept. As former French president, François Mitterrand said in his last speech, “Nationalism means war.” Surely what’s more important is where you live, rather than where you come from. Ater all, we are all the descendants of migrants – as I explain in my blog:
http://jondanzig.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/we-are-all-descendants-of-migrants.html
Jon, your history is correct, your conclusions too advanced- you may drive your own car (alone)!
Mitterand was a typical politician being “flexible” with words to try and make his case. Nationalism is one of the most abused words around. Do a search for definitions and you will find two distinct but different variations
One definition is the belief that the interests of the nation state are paramount and I agree wholeheartedly with it. I’m proud of my country, I’ve paid my taxes here all my life and I believe those taxes should be spent here to the benefit of my country rather than given away to others in the interest of some misguided “solidarity”..if that makes me a Nationalist, I’m fine with that..but I certainly wouldn’t go to war over it
The second definition is a belief that your country is far superior to other countries, it is this definition that Mitterand was trying to apply but you would need to put the word “Extreme” in front of it before you could claim it creates wars
Nationalism and sovereignty become anyway almost meaningless when your politicians have lost their ideals and are powerless in the grip of multinational corporations. A country’s sovereignty comes from the consent of its citizens, not from its homogeneity. And a country that doesn’t value its citizens has already lost its sovereignty.
Sovereignity will became again relevant – just keep your mind open.
You should just fire anyone who comes up with this questions or hire someone who would do your marketing for you in a way that would not make people angry at each other and at you.
And to the question: It depends. Sovereignty is very real, you can not just erase it you can just forfeit it to something bigger or give it to something smaller. In EU if you are asking about sovereignty of member states, it depends.
For state that has a say in policies of federation, it really does not, for others it is a tool to balance power of the federation and of the state and protect itself against the interests of stronger members that are not their own.
So, basically, if EU would be federation of equal partners run on democratic principles and taking everyones needs and interests into account, it would not be relevant at all.
Is that a serious question?
Makes one want to migrate to either Asia or the States sooner rather then later.
Just respect people tradition, nationalism is stupid
……………sovereignty is not equal to nationalism! That is old (political) propaganda.
more than ever
Sure it is. The problem arises when the situation as a “local’ expression that is fair and democratic, and the power behind the set makes it s appearence.
European sovereignity in a few but relevant and clear matters
Of course- despite of condemnations from many sides & perspectives! In short:
What would be the ultimate (convincing) reasons to hand over (voluntarily) one’s steering wheel- while embarking on a (infinite) journey- to a driver without a valid driver’s license, driving erratic & under influences of mysterious & dubious intentions? Is it blind trust, mist trust or the instinct of the survival of the fittest?
Rather wait for advanced technology and a FOOL proof version of a driver-less car!
Whose sovereignity? The nation state in my opinion is a dead man walking, too big to be close to its citizens, too small to be relevant on global scale. So yes, nation state sovereignity is irrelevant. EU and local authorities sovereignity, this is still relevant and must be managed with a clear subsidiarity principle
…………….a CLEAR subsidiarity principle? Is the present EU-28 principle not clear enough? Wait till doomsday? Which- either the nation or the “EU supranational” state too big”? A united 28 or 47 European trade block (“EEC”) will remain very relevant, can formulate & trade without giving up it’s 28/47 sovereign ties- what’s wrong?
So the nation state is too large, but a supranational organization is not. And you maintain that subsidiarity would also still be applied, which implies that localism has some value. Can you try to circle this square for me perhaps?
Sovereignty is important, yes. It is closely associated with culture and the way different countries do things. In the case of the United Kingdom the word has an extra level of meaning as we do have a sovereign and it would be a sad day if we exchanged a head of state who is there by accident of birth for a career politican. Retaining sovereignty and being part of a greater Europe are not things that are mutually exclusive.
Popular sovereignty that affirms the rule of law legal system guarantee can not be limited to the exercise of representative democracy tools for the selection of the ruling political class through the electoral appointments.
The institutions of direct democracy as a consultative and deliberative sovereignty exercises of the people in the executive power are in fact for a clear accountability of the transantional public administrations.
Transactional economic agreements are lacking tools to legitimize the part concerning the non profit purpose clauses compared to the values and fundamental freedoms. We need a new framework of rules that I presume to define UNCC Uniform Non Commercial Code
The only sovereignty that matters is the sovereignty of the people to democratically determine their future, at whatever level is relevant, be it local, regional, national or supranational. The EU has the potential to improve that self-determination in a globalised world, but it has a huge democratic deficit to fix first. The real threat to sovereignty are increasingly opaque multinational corporations and multilateral trade agreements like TTIP, over which we have no democratic control.
At international level, state of the market right and power are in contrast places because market regulation does not include variable and reconfigurable models of democratic control. It’s possible to build democratic control through the use of the courts with a transational jurisdictional approach in parallel to the establishment of smart participatory processes in public decisions.
Good post
From a average voter yes, from a economic point of view no.
……..no? Why must it be either or? Why not preserve- in addition to subscribe?
Yes, it is!
Generaly is a sign of stability for the country and the majority of citizens….but, of course, the EU would like them to desapear.
Of course not. One caliph for us all!
………….of course you are joking or choking?
not at all… I haven’t felt that sovereign ever since 2001, rendering sovereignty pretty irrelevant… the world keeps on turning, poor are poor, rich are rich, and healthcare is mostly free or affordable
……seems you are a happy victim of supranational charity?
More than ever.
In the age of Globalisation, multinational companies, worldwide shareholding and highly indebted countries, soveeeignty is an illusion unless you are China or the USA.
………please explain what is the solution to your perceived “illusion”.
Yes, souvereignty still is important in Europe. So it’s correct that EU isn’t any State. And for our Country, the State of Austria, it’s one Point of the so called contract of Vienna from 1955. And independence and freedoms are other Points. And also in practise it’s important to have the points.
Have you heard of the United European States? It is coming in 2024 or so on as the last step of full integration as it was put by the head of EU officials last year… and then, there will be no states to think about the concept of sovereignity!
…….and you believe in whatever one hears (from “officials”) is official?
Truly i dont think so all the best
More so now than ever before. Globalisation is the definition of death to European culture. Just as the fall of Rome was when Nero fiddled.
@Catherine Benning
Well said.
fighting nationalism with a superstate is not something very logically coherent, and basically even operationally.
Rotschild doesn’t want it, in his new vision of world order. There’s nothing to debate – just do what Rotschild tells you to do.
Not according to Alde/euro group. Sovereignty/democracy, and yes patriotism is frowned upon in the halls and in the backrooms of brussels.
The eurogroup/brussels want more and more, yes an empire controlled by a small group .
Look at america, patriotism is alive and well, here in europe its shuned upon.
A fed doesnt work, look at america . The american fed have unsustainable debt and a runnaway corporate govt who serve the 1% , a govt bought and sold a hundred times and a corporate military whom serve the whims of the oil companys and banks.
In the netherlands pm Rutte/Pechtold/alde group faint when the words eu referendum are mentioned and Verhofstad (Mark Rutte,s boss) has sleepless nights when you metion referendum. Mention an in/out referendum and they get all nervous and flustered (they know the outcome). We in the netherlands have one or two parties who will give the much needed referendum before we go any farther, i say bring it on.. But but if Rutte/Pechtold/alde group stay in power they will most certainly deny us that.
So yes sovereignty is so very important, problem is its been dealt away behind closed doors anyway and unsuspecting eu citizens are someday going to wake up and find thier world changed, but not for the better. Then it will be to late.
I just hope us in the UK don’t let the rest of Europe down and vote to stay in. The whole institution needs a severe kick up the @rse and the only way they will get it is with a Brexit vote
Better ask the ones that still have it. But some have lost it, and some have expanded it.
There is no democracy without sovereignty .The power of government must always lie with the people ,we must always have that power to elect or deselect those who govern us . Those who govern us in turn must always have the power to do so without hindrance.
So yes sovereignty is relevant ,no Nations cannot strengthen it through the EU and for the EU to become more sovereign it has to take that sovereignty from Nations and then become democratic . This though is unacceptable to Nation states and is why you are seeing a growing number of people reject it .
The peoples of Europe should look at their own governments and ask is my Government sovereign . If your inside the EU political construct the answer to that is probably no . If you are inside the euro the answer is definitely a big NO
The UK will soon be holding a referendum on our membership ,regardless of the financial implications ,trade deals or any other effects it is the sovereignty of our nation that will be at stake and is why we will vote to leave .
In territorial local and regional autonomy, what is the public interest is determined by the administrative authority which, in concert with the Federal decentralization authorities referred to the vertical subsidiarity, offers budget for new public services investments (with its financial statements of the match in double accounting reporting: cash/bank notes ) anchored to the territorial regeneration and participation of citizens to the commons through horizontal subsidiarity. The litigation arising from it must take it to the Court of Luxembourg in terms of rule of law and self-determination of the peoples of Europe in respect of the monetary decentralized federal sovereignty.
How do you feel being lapdogs of lapdogs?
This all shows that European capitalism are no different than capitalism elsewhere They want cheap labor and a growing base of consumer They do not care that the groundwork and consumers follows Wahhabism and hates democracy the only thing thatis important to them is whether these newcomers will buy products and lower wages illegal immigration is a violation of the rule of law
Soberanía es la capacidad de tomar de manera autónoma decisiones clave, por el bien de la comunidad. Y esto comprende al territorio, su delimitación, política de inmigración, aduanas, aranceles, comercio, seguridad, defensa, etc…
El término, posee un sentido amplio, y no es contrario a la cooperación.
Es inevitable y necesaria la construccion de una soberanía europea. De otra manera la soberania de los estados europeos por separado,no tienen fuerza en la actual y futura realidad internacional. Para crear un mallor sentimiento y conciencia de soberania europea,es preciso crear herramientas informativas comunes,con una prespectiva europea,tipo a la ya existente cadena de television Euronews asi como otros medios paneuropeos. A problemas comunes,las soluciones comunes nos haran mas fuertes.
No it is not. CRIMEA , Eastern Ukraine, Georgia’s North Ossetian…. or you did forget? 2008, 2013, 2014… Europe btw…
Yes, which is why we a leaving the pointless EU.
https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/photos/a.805855112846065.1073741829.794492093982367/896396813791894/?type=3&theater
No. And not just in the EU.
Yes it is.
European sovereignty more important, nation-state sovereignty less important, but still important anyway.
What is required is people-centric universal social standards globally. If other countries outside the EU do not comply then they should be ‘out’ as a trading partner until they do. Trade is ok but the standards of people and the EU is not and is getting worse. The EU could lead the change for a social Europe that abolishes poverty in the EU and the world.
Well said. What matters is Human Rights, Fair Trade and Self-Determination. There is no freedom, equality or justice if we do not all play by the same rules. The EU has the potential to lead the way to a new socio-economic step in evolution. The current hypocrisy of hanging on to ineffective, unsustainable and unfair practices and policies from the past will only lead to poverty, instability and conflict.
No man (or woman) is an island. Many of those asserting that sovereignty is the key issue haven’t got an idea of what they really mean. There is no absolute sovereignty. Watching Passport to Pimlico should be mandatory.
We should no longer be thinking in terms of “sovereignty”, but rather in terms of “concert”. Races to the bottom, freeriding, and other undesirable conduct are the direct result of states abusing their sovereignty, and they make everyone worse off in the long run. States must have in place common policies -act in concert- in order to make sure all citizens (including their own) will be better off in the long run.
All too often, “sovereignty” is used as a justification for harmful (and usually populist) policies. People in the 21st should understand that “sovereignty” does not magically turn bad policies into good policies: we should be very wary of any politician that justifies his proposals as an exercise of national sovereignty.
Unfortunately every country is in the EU for the benefits to themselves, the only ones preaching “solidarity ” across the EU are those in positions of power who see themselves as rulers of a European superstate
The gap between those countries that benefit from the EU and those that pay into it grows ever wider. The UK has been an ever increasing net contributor to the EU for over 40 years, just how long is your supposed “long run” before we start to become better off?
Wasn’t this question just posted a week ago?
German sovereignty?
Rumania? Is that a map from africa?
We need economic and political sovereignty
Soberania alemã?
That’s an old map
Each country should have its own sovereignity and freely decide its own decisions. The EU is populism and demagogy because its unable to take compulsory decisions. bla,bla,bla,
What kind of sovereignty? There are multiple. sovereignty are like property rights – some you share some you don’t share. Depending on your world view, shared ‘properties’ in this sense generate the most safety, prosperity, solutions to cross border problems such as climate change etc. most people argue about sovereignty like it’s their core business; yet fail to show up at elections when they have the chance. dare to form an opinion on your own instead repeating after others’ ill informed opinion you barely even read about on the internet or elsewhere.
Hmm, please try to “comprehend” what you read- less ill informed!……….the context of this forum question was:…….”sovereignty”……….. “is both a political practice and a legal concept entailing the recognized equality and supreme authority and autonomy of territorial bound states in the international system.“
We need control of our own affairs . Who ever heard of a committee of 27 ever coming up with a good decision. i woud want to get off a bus being driven over a cliff by 27 other jihadis
Somewhat warped, from the ‘Devil’s Dictionary’:
Sovereignty: when you’re good enough to borrow from, but not well enough to lend to your neighbours. A degree of friendship called slight when its object is poor or obscure, and intimate when he is rich or famous.
……….conflicted world- on a lighter note & not from the “Cynics/Devil’s Word book”:
http://humansareweird.com/2013/07/17/when-the-cynic-met-the-optimist/
-A Political party (whose members contribute to assume office without a binding mandate) is a machine for making collective passion with free representative gimmicks by members. It has a autonomous sovereignty.
– A political movement is an organization formed with precise thematic purposes and / or identity (thus tends to constrain the representative mandate to the theme or identity politics to which it refers) which exerts a pressure on the collective thought of each of the human beings who they are members. It has a derlegated sovereignity.
The entire Souvereignity debate is skewed in Europe anyways,as the term sovereignity is interpreted through the supposed greatness of EU Membership, they say oh how great to join and share sovereignity and be more powerful etc., in reality you are giving your sovereignity to a new body that never existed before in history,a new body that wants to become the United States of Europe mostly through stealth and pretense of being a union for nations to do trade and cultural exchange,and with every passing year you will realise that your sovereignity is being turned into EU sovereignity, one day they will call for a EU Army and they will use similar arguments and if you let this happen then you will lose the last piece of sovereignity,your citizens will fight wars in some far away GOD forsaken lands for oil,minerals etc. and they will fight and die for things that dont have much to do with the original countries(Austria,Sweden,Denmark,Germany etc.) that these soldiers come from, but it wont matter because not one Journalist will take the time to point this out as it would almost certainly mean career suicide and the yes to EU politicians surely wont as they like it so and want it so. I am in no way a anti EU person I just think that the EU is very dishonest, if they want a EU State they should say this to the people loud and clear and let the people in every European country have a democratic election to decide if they want it and whatever the people decide then so be it,but creating a new State by stealth and pretense is absolutely unacceptable and shamefull and it creates anger amongst those who see it happening and cant get it to stop because its not up for democratic debate and vote.
Sovereignty I am afraid is still relevant in the 21st Century. However to me it is a document of a narrow minded past.
Regarding that this whole world is surrounded by a hostile Universe in which (at the present time) we cannot reach a point at which mankind would be able to survive, we should most rapidly try to re-think!
Is there anyone here who really believes the US would be a world leading nation if all the states within the US would be sovereign states? I do not want to discuss the way the USA is a leading power, but surely it is. If Europe wants to have a say in the world in the future, it has to become a United States of Europe. Europeans should try and think big! We can do a lot of things a lot better, than most other countries in the world, especially if we work together and not against each other! Any form of nationalism helps those who are striving for their own goals.
Do you really think Britain will have a greater say if it leaves the EU? What has it to offer? A financial hot spot? Anything else? Itś not even an attractive consumer market with itś mere 65 million people (including the Scottish, which I think will opt out and join the EU in the long run).
I am sure that the bigger a sovereign group is, the more it can control. I believe in a USE that will strive for equality, humble wealth in accordance to nature and in favour of preserving this planet to be home for many, many generations to come
Anyone notice the timing of this question, now the EU is negotiating the TTIP to sign over national sovereignty to private business interests?
I wonder what Dr. Hiski Haukkala will say when European nations are sued by multinational corporations for damages in private courts for not allowing genetically modified food, unimpeded fracking or whatever unsavoury drug, pesticide or practice they come up with.
I guess his answer will be: “You can still say no – you just have to pay for it.”
.
Even more so given the mess the Brussels bureaucrats have made of continental Europe.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mep-syed-kamall-im-backing-brexit-a3201046.html
With sovereingty we were proud…with the EU we are parias. Avanti BREXIT.
The EU wastes time and alienates people by using the word sovereignity. Just create a set of universal social and moral codes that all member states must adhere to and give them supremacy over individual countries laws, instead of a central government that nobody seems to want. Through generations and the free movement within the EU the next generations will naturally feel a solidarity with all EU member states plus whatever their heritage is.
yes
The greater the integration of interests of all the people, not just the few, the less relevant the issue of national political sovereignty becomes to cosmopolitans and the more relevant it becomes to xenophobes.
Defimitely it is…..what is not relevant are the pompous euroidiots who hate state sovereignty and disrespect their forefathers and what they fought for. To hell with euroidiotic tecnocrats!
More and deeper Union is what is needed, and not going backwards in time.
Dimitris Kotsiopoulos
Dimitris Kotsiopoulos
So we get out from under the American-Israeli colonies?
Benjamin world state! World state! Lol
Yes!!! Ir is!!!!
Europeans who care about state sovereignty for nationalist reasons are using the same reasoning as Americans who talk about states’ rights for racist reasons. Don’t be like George Wallace.
EU should not try to grasp on everything. Every level of government should have its duties, and independence on their major duties.
yes for each person alive, but not for states.
Not so much… the basic characteristic of a country is that it is a Democratic Republic, maybe Federal…
If by sovereignty one means among other things the social characteristics Yes otherwise Europe will be a grey canvas.
I think it’s heavily over-hyped by the likes of UKIP. California and New York have shared sovereignty and yet are like different countries. The model can work, the far right of Europe doesn’t want it to, though.
Yes of course matters!!!!!!all the civilians euro-pians close the border when you like, contro what Schengen provides but you think sovereignty its not relevant , but in reality if you want to remane the populus of europe unite e non divide by the wars as has been in the past, every nation -state has to remain as it is with its langauge sovereinghty, traditions and culture and preserve this diversity for the good of humanity, because the multiculture can make the difference through the people and achive superior levels civilιzation.
In a Europe without Democracy IT DOES MATTER!
I’m so tired of Portugal being treated as lowest on the totem pole, burning fishing fleets, banning commercial tomato crops and processing and now forcing a reduction in productivity in dairy and swiniculture… Taking honest work from a proud people. The EU is a dictatorship.
YES !
Democracy is important!
Of course it is!
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Sovereignty is the will of the people so yes, it is more relevant now than ever before.
The alternative is idiotic institutions like the EU and we all know where that leads..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNOqSSP1o94
Yes because elected representatives are directly accountable to the people, whereas sthe EU gravy train of commissioners, MEPS and so on seem not to understand the word.
maybe it just refers to bank´s sovereignty and their friends…
Yes, as is identity. And no matter how hard they try national identities will not be destroyed.
I just want to live in peace in a prosperous State that respects me as a Human Being…that includes the freedom to choose which language I choose to speak.It must be well managed and and any manager who does not perform must be immediately fired!CORRUPTION must be Banned!To achieve all this NO specific nationality is needed, just ethics and a purpose to achieve a goal!
Like anthem of Soviet Lithuania said:
“Sovietų sąjungoj šlovingoj
Tarp lygių lygi ir laisva
Gyvuok per amžius, būk galinga
Brangi Tarybų Lietuva”
“In glorious Soviet Union”
Equal among equals and free
Live forever and prosper
Dear Soviet Lithuania”
So.. LIke 25 years agohttps://www.debatingeurope.eu/2016/02/10/is-sovereignty-still-relevant-in-the-21st-century/#.Vvkk02FHnCQ, nothing changed. Freedom must be sacrificed in way to “unity”.
And your “Sovereignty, what is ir good for?” sounds so much like Gorbachev said in 1991 “What will you do with your freedom?”
Yes.My Country means something to me , your union means nothing to me.
Federica Mogherini, high representative in EU, confirms that the growing number of muslims in Europe is dangerous to european values when she says
“For this reason I am not afraid to say that POLITICAL ISLAM should be part of the picture. Religion plays a role in politics… What makes the difference is whether THE PROCESS IS DEMOCRATIC or not. That is what matters to us, the key point.”
—>>> Then, yes, more muslims = more voters = islamized Europe
And she missed to say that muslims are part of Europe History as VIOLENT INVADERS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yrv0z-04Uw
Written speech
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/docs/150624islamfepsdeliv.pdf
In “Star Trek” series there is one country on Earth and everybody lives in full democracy and wealth. In that futuristic world every individual is a sovereign being. I can support such a sovereignty.
More than ever!
More than ever!
Someone needs to just dominate all of us already and focus our efforts on going to space.
So I can become a space pirate already.
Sarcasm: No it’s not important what people want… Important is what bureaucrats in Bruxelles what… all other are stupid ignorant bigots and fascists
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Clearly Sovereignty is everything. :)
Brexit’ to be followed by Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Fruckoff. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Latervia & Byegium.
You should ask that to the 170 countries who aren’t in EU!
No
National pride is a sentiment that still drives People thinking they are living in the XIXth century
Europe will find out soon.
Sovereignty in the 21th century is a utopia.
In the present status of globalization, I mean.
Of course it is. I am a portuguese citizen and i strongly defend the exit of my country from a state comunity that doesn’t work at all.
Sovereignty ended with Globalization. The global markets have too much power to call any state truly sovereign. We are all subject to the markets, we are all subject to other countries and we are all subject to some degree to the influence of institutions.
Yes it is!
Europe means sovereignty of peoples added to the ” delegate ” of the nations present in the parliaments .
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Now we have left the EU does that mean we are no longer ‘Europeans’ ? lol
No, not really. I thought we had moved beyond that.
Yes, it is necessary for biodiversity -life- in the same way that nature evolves. Monsanto and Communism are rather passe’ concepts.
The questions to pose are What exactly does ‘sovereignty’ mean in the 21st centuary; and how this could advance our wellbeing as a society, and increase our influence in a multi-power, globalised world.
I don’t think absolute sovereignty, but I do think some sovereignty is because it links back to the people who live in a geo political area. Until the EU changes the tensions between its institutions so that poor political decisions can be voted out, we still have to have some national sovereignty as a conduit between people in a particular area with particular needs.
Its all that matters and that will always matter.
Yes, but a different type of sovereignty. One that makes resolving globalised issues easier and national ones more realisitic. EU is ill equipped to provide this, we need more focus and resultbased supranational organisations. Results based on demands of european citizens.
yes but it must be an european sovereignty
How can you have true sovereignty when you are forever tied to the dispositions of global markets?
YES!
Yes, as it is what respects the identities and singularities of the peoples. If you argue that today we live in globalisation, I’ll say it’s a mistake.
Give us arguments to be proud of an European identity and than you can ask us if it stills relevant!
We are proud of OUR home, OUR land, OUR country,……Europe? what’s that? Oh yes, German dictatorship.
Sovereignty maybe not, but democrasy YES. And somethink smells really bad in Berlin and Brussels.
We live on an interdependent society. Unilateralism is a outdated feudal and thick.
German slavery is an uber relevant issue.
The only way people will warm to the EU as a second-level ‘sovereignity’ to their country’s first level ‘sovereignity’ is if it becomes ethical and social to all.
Lol saying is easy. But the globalisation serves only one master the financial system. Yes sovereignty is important our place is important
Sovereignty brings only war and suffering. We are all humans from Earth…
Just ask the Brits! ;)
Sovereignty is important in the 21th Century …
people’s sovereignty is, and we have to get it back from the eurofinancial oligarchy that stolled it.
Sure it is but most of people talking about it in the UK couldnt give you a dictionary definition of it, its a psychological rationalistion, a rationalisation for nationalistic sentiments and anger, an impluse
As long as one nation managing the other somehow, miraculously find themself making decision profitable for them and not for the other, yes it is.
Sure. and now more sovereignty for each people of europe. Less Bruxeles, more emigration controle, More EU of the people and less for the financial marquet
«Of course it is!»
Spain have invest in all World execepted Catalonia capital Barcelona.
Today repeteed same history always Germany in CiA.
We donțt want to have in East-Europe blacks, arabs, ….where is our identity? the traditions would disappear, the islamist would want to impose the coran, sharia, etc……that is really stupid.
Sovereignity is always relevant in such an Union where inequality still exists between old and new member societies and the strong ones want to force the weaker ones to accept such things which things can increase the wealth gap between the stronger and the weaker ones. Intensions to s overeignity can fade only when the general prosperity is equal in the whole Union!!!
It always will be.
It always will be.
Sovereignty is important. And all members of EU have it. Basic principle of sovereignty is that the country can do whatever it wants. Including joining the EU, or leaving it. Saying the UK didn’t have sovereignty is ridiculous : if they didn’t have it, they coulnd’t have had the referendum, simple as that.
Sovereignty is important. And all members of EU have it. Basic principle of sovereignty is that the country can do whatever it wants. Including joining the EU, or leaving it. Saying the UK didn’t have sovereignty is ridiculous : if they didn’t have it, they coulnd’t have had the referendum, simple as that.
European sovereignty, of course!
Sure it is, as we will all find out sooner than later!
Not in global community
Yes, but i would give up soverignty if it would be more proffitable for me and my people to give it up.
relevant is stoping politician corruption
Ask the brits
:D
Ask the Americans
No.
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Democracy is under threat across Europe so sovereignty is more relevant now than at any point since 1945.
More than ever.
yes
No.
yes
Of course.!…sovereignty is the prime purpose of every nation.
Irrelevant nationalistic crap. Nationalists want integration of other cultures but refuse to be integrated themselves.
Hell Yes, It is keeping Poland and much of Central Europe from being overrun by Merkels immigration invasion tsunami
Sovereignity is not only relevant, it is even more important than ever in the current age of global economy. The focus however has shifted from national sovereignity to sovereignity of geo-political and economic interests.
Sovereignty in today’s EU, and in the XXI century, is like decentralization at any organizational level. It is THE way to stop people in ivory towers (read Brussels among other places) from making decisions on topics, on problems, on people, on cultures they know very little or nothing about. And when they eventually do, sovereignty stops them from exploiting situations and people.
Sovereignty in today’s EU, and in the XXI century, is like decentralization at any organizational level. It is THE way to stop people in ivory towers (read Brussels among other places) from making decisions on topics, on problems, on people, on cultures they know very little or nothing about. And when they eventually do sovereignty stops them from exploiting situations and people.
How dare you debate this?
No, because the only sovereignity will lie at the World Government and the individual.
Of course. But obviously EU and the masters like Soros aren’t interested in it.
Florian Schwarz
It will always be not matter the century..you can’t argue with reality altough some want that.
Hahaha of course that’s a dreamer question
There is not sovereignty anymore, it is an illusion. Countries who are in debt belong to creditors and Governments belong to corporations.
Of course sovereignty is still important and will remain important. Any community or society desiring to steer its political course on its own requires sovereignty to do so. Even if the ideal of nationhood were to wane, the issue of sovereignty would remain acute at the supranational level. The only scenario wherein sovereignty wouldn’t play a role would be a global society, a Brave New World with a unique common identity, where all ethnic and religious differences are gone and no community or society wishes to separate politically from the rest. Such a world is only conceivable in fiction.
Do not be shy, you are asking in fact if, is democrasy still relevant in the 21st Century?
The question isn’t about democracy, its asking whether state sovereignty is an outdated concept. Of course methods of democracy is relevant to this question but not the main point.
Since the era of tribes…
Sovereignty counts, the problem is: the actual borders represent the rightful sovereign nations? We can divide powers to various level of internal division. As I always said: I’m Sardinian to Italians, Italian to Europeans, and European to the World. Each one of these origins has to represent me and legislate my life in different matters, and on different levels. As every one of our country has different levels of public administrations!
Let’s be frank. It was cute when they were making us stick funny labels on things and saying that you can’t call it marmelade unless it has X% sugar in it. You could debate whether sovereignty was still relevant then. Then Merkel said: I’ve decided that the Dublin Regulation is void. 1 million Syrians, Afghans and Pakistanis per year, no screening, no registration, no questions asked, to be distributed as needed by Berlin across the European Union.
At that point national sovereignty very quickly was back in vogue.
Unhappilly it still is.
Of course: As long as there are national cultures and the economic system calls for “national debt”, GDP, etc.
Of course…
Yes
it is as relevant as thousands of years ago.
Don t worry the transatlantic and tpp mafia have it all figured out.
No for independent and sovereign countries. But if you are refugee or you have nonprivileged passport then borders are extremely important.
yes it is
Okay, it’s like this okay.
When you are okay with leaving your door unlocked and your gates open 24/7, we can start discussing this.
Until then, semua boleh shaddap
of course, if a people isn’t sovereign, “someone else” rules it for “someone else “´s interest. if a people is sovereign, it rules itself in its own interest. that’s all what’s democracy is about, people ‘s sovereignty. do you think democracy is still relevant in the XXIst century ? only an undemocratic mind can ask such a question.
MORE THEN EVER.
The EU has no need to pool sovereignity, it needs a common code of ethics in all decisions and a common social charter with the same EU-wide benefits and wages
Less than ever, but why be so black and white? Different problems work out at different scales. Climate change, migration, these are global problems that require global coordination. Soveregn states cannot solve it alone. Product safety and consumer standards are at least regional problems. Other problems operate at nation state level, others at city level etc. The key is where and how to distribute power in the most effective way for the problems at hand, rather than be blinded by’national sovereignty’ for its own sake.
Absolutely not. Too old fashioned. We need to move to interdependency.
Joaquim
More than ever.
We are under threat of being wiped out of history
We`re all living on this continent together so we better support each other and work together as our destinies are intertwined.
Of course not… sovereignty as a continent with a breakdown in regions maybe… certainly not sovereignty for countries… that would be going against eveolution and world economics… and remember we cannot fight off the stiff cometition from china and India and we live well above our means…
Its time to limit the right to vote to the people in charge of all the others…and install a cofficeiency system for the others… we have seen with Brexit, Turkey and North Korea what happens when the donkeys are allowed to express themselves…
State sovereignty has eroded due to the increase in military intervention. Without any legal permission, military forces are being sent into countries without any concern for the other states sovereignty. Therefore state sovereignty is outdated.
Dr. Hinski has no idea what equality of managing space could mean in terms of origin and implications of an abstract mathematical and physical world of both dimensions and none dimensional formalities.
I think that is not relevant anymore.It was relevant in last century but not now.
The key concept here is the sovereignty of the people. To the extent that a people exercise their sovereignty via democracy, the polity within which that popular sovereignty is exercised must be defined more or less in terms of a nation.
The key concept here is the sovereignty of the people. To the extent that a people exercise their sovereignty via democracy, the polity within which that popular sovereignty is exercised must be defined more or less in terms of a nation.
What is a “nation”? Are British a nation? Or Scots? Or Welsh? Are Catalans a nation? Who decides that they are NOT a nation? Difiicult isn’t…. Territorial or ethnical approach? :-(
A nation (state) is defined by its independent exercise of sovereignty within clearly delineated borders.
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It is more relevant now than at any time since 1945.
How’s it going in the UK? Seems like the 4 home countries all don’t want to be British!
Thomas Bickle
Everything is going fine thanks, we always knew the process of leaving would be drawn out.
But worry not, we are leaving the decaying EU and we are leaving together, its just a few quislings at work.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-scotland/
We know. You’ve been leaving now for a looooooooong time. xD
Michael Šimková
Now the British ‘people’ have spoken the process is unstoppable, Article 50 will be triggered in March then a maximum of 2 years negotiations.
Given the intransigent position of Brussels my own view is it will not take that long & we will be out by the end of next year.
As they say ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
I’d be more worried about the intransigent position of your Supreme Court. ;)
Michael Šimková
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Why worry ?, they court can’t stop us leaving they can only make the government ‘debate’ it & given most politicians will back it regardless of what the quisling say as their jobs are on the line there is nothing to worry about.
The democratic process will run its course & then we shall leave the pointless EU.
You should worry about who is leaving next.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/08/23/why-france-is-the-most-likely-to-be-the-next-to-quit-the-eu
The sovereignity needs to evolve from the one exercised within the frame of armed tribes (whose interestes very often were not the people’s ones) to a model of open, transnational, federalist, societies and political organizations.
That ideal has been tried and failed massively,that’s why there is the rise everywhere of nationalism and the far right.
The fact is certain people’s and cultures will always clash.
Silvio Bosco
Wouldn’t your unwanted federalist EU just be a new armed tribe ?
well….a plurinational tribe perhaps, a serene and pedantic acknowledgment of our complexity.
Silvio Bosco
By ‘complexity’ I take it you mean perpetual crisis.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/08/23/why-france-is-the-most-likely-to-be-the-next-to-quit-the-eu
That is the one… crisis. From Ancient Greek κρίσις (krísis, “a separating, power of distinguishing, decision, choice, election, judgment, dispute”), from κρίνω (krínō, “pick out, choose, decide, judge”). We are in a permanent state of crisis and whatever tribal, identity solution is just a tragic or farcical illusion. But this is only my opinion, my krisis…Next year i will go to Lampedusa to dive into the complexity, would you like to join?
More so now than ever
Right now national prerogatives are more and more restricted and politics is being subordinated to econonics and the market. The legislative powers go to supranational bodies and the distance between the simple citizen and the legislative body is very big, alienating him. So when he does get the chance to have a say, he votes with anger for that.
No. The problem in Europe is not being united as 1, as one big country, one big federation of states. Europe must unite into a new European Federation, with a governament elected directly by the people, and not by the European Parlamnent.
Hugo Dias
The peoples of the EU do not want your federalist ideology so what will you do, invade them & force them to accept it?
Contrary to UK, the EU never used military means to force anyone into the (non-nation) Union. Everyone is in by free will and may leave if they want to.
Patrik Klingborg
You mean apart from the Nazism & Communism, Europeanism may not use an army (for now) to keep people in line it just uses lies, disinformation and threats to build its empire.
Here’s an idea, hold referendums in all 27 EU Nation States and ask the ‘people’ if they want your federalist nightmare.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/08/23/why-france-is-the-most-likely-to-be-the-next-to-quit-the-eu
Ask the 170 countries who aren’t in EU!
More than ever. EU doesn’t protect people, country’s or our lifestyle.
Actually, the Union is very god at protecting the various cultures within it. Have you seen the regulations for various food products, ensuring that companies won’t just replace local products with something else? Languages are also promoted by the EU. So are art forms and cultural heritage.
Patrik Klingborg
Then what is the point of the EU flag, its anthem, its commission & its parliament if it is not to force everyone to be ‘EU’ European at the expense of their true Nationality ?
Well, that is really two questions. About the parliament and commission, some political questions (climate, energy, trade etc) are simply better suited for larger geographical units than the nation state. I’m also happy that I am represented on a European level as well as a national, regional and local.
The flag is just a symbol, I’m sure you are familiar with that from the UK where there are flags for everything, from villages and counties to countries and nations. They’re very useful when you want to represent a geographical area (such as the EU does in e.g. climate questions). I’m not very fond of the Anthem to be honest, but then again, I’m not fond of the Swedish Anthem either. It can be used to strengthen unity, and I don’t see unity as an opposite to nations. Would you say that there is an inherent contradiction between the nation UK and the countries in it?
Ps. true nationality doesn’t exist, it’s created by humans and ever changing. You might soon live through that yourself if Scotland leaves the UK.
Patrik Klingborg
Don’t kid yourself, the Scot’s voted for Cameron’s negotiated change which are now off the table, they would not vote to join the migrant crisis, the Euro crisis or your agricultural crisis.
Why would your pointless EU want the ultra Nationalist Scots in your EU anyway ?
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-scotland/
It’s so funny when you call someone else ultra nationalist. Anyways, civic (and thus inclusive) nationalism is a great deal different from the British ethnic (and terrifying) nationalism.
Patrik Klingborg
The whole point of the EU is ‘not to be independent’ so again I ask why would Brussels want an independent Scotland in your idiotic union ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
No, every state in the EU is sovereign and Independent, they’ve just decided to take common decisions in many areas. You would have known if the countries weren’t sovereign, because you would never have had the Brexit referendum in that case.
But thanks, linking me to God save the Queen really changed my mind. Good one.
I consider myself European first and British second.
Thomas Bickle
Being British or any other Nationality can never come second simply because ‘European’ is not a Nationality..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Ivan Burrows I’d rather be European than British
Ivan Burrows – a new paper in the UK it’s a great read ;) gonna read it this morning then leave for all to see http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/articles/brexit_means_shambles_15_things_you_definitely_didn_t_vote_for_1_4783350
Thomas Bickle .
Just another pro EU propaganda outlet so no thanks.
I go directly to the European Commission & European Parliament to read lies and disinformation thanks.
What Brussels will not tell you.
http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-uprising-of-the-angry-in-germany/a-36431090?maca=en-Facebook-dw
Ivan I see you have been on the New European facebook page! Nervously looking as always ;)
Ivan Burrows
Neither is British a real nationality, it`s constructed out of English, Scottish, (North) Irish, Welsh and Cornish.
Pirvulescu Florin true! Am sure Ivan has some bull response to this and some facts from the Sun/Daily express to back up his shite
Thomas Bickle .
Not many others have thought.
As the old saying goes, know your enemy and ‘new European’ are the enemy of democracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Pirvulescu Florin
lol, if you say so comrade, if you say so.
Ivan brexiters are all the same. Fiercely patriotic but a bit thick. Why should we believe anything from brexiters after the shambles the UK has become?
Thomas Bickle
Resorting to the standard insults of the pro EU fanatic so early, did I touch a nerve quisling ?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-18/final-polls-show-renzi-s-referendum-heading-for-defeat-in-italy
Ivan Burrows the national anthem was being booed last week by the Scots. Not a very ‘united’ kingdom is it? It will only be the UK for another 3 years anyway before scots vote to leave and rejoin the Eu ;)
Tu parles européen?
national-socialists want a small state of their own where they can comfortably beat up the foreigners and no one in the world can tell anything to them. in the meantime they want to be front runners of consuming all the material richness globalization create.
dreams dreams, life is though.
we are humans, Europeans and after, we have a nationality.
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Do you consider the peoples of Russia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan & Turkey to be ‘European’ ?
Europe is NOT the EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk8n4o8OF9M
True, thanks for clarifying. I mean EU.
I hope the people of Europe finally wake up in mass to stop the wet dreams of the anti democratic EU…
We are loosing sovereignty. This should not be a problem if we feel that european institutions represent us. We should be federated so that every country could be represented equally.
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The German people pay for the EU so why should Portugal or anyone else have the same power as Berlin ?
That’s democracy. Look at USA elections. The small states are represented equal. Why would portuguese want to be ruled by germans?
There’s a tremendous lack of democracy in Europe.
Maria Rodrigues
That is because the USA is a single Nation, the EU is not and never will be.
I hope Europe will be a political federation. We have to fix the system or UA risques not to survive. Look at Brexit. Not only english people is dissatisfied.
Maria Rodrigues because Portugal is a corrupt nothing and needs proper leadership.
You don’t know my country at all. But you should. It’s crazy this ignorance about who we are. Ignorance leads people to say anything as if it was true.
Maria, Brexit was a democratic statement. Something that the EU has been trying hard to abolish completely. Good for the Brits!
More Brexits will come soon. France and the Netherlands will most probably be next. The EU is anti democratic in essence. Read the treaties. It can’t be fixed. It’s goals have nothing to do with democracy..
I also consider myself european first and portuguese second. Yet, I don’t like at all the hegemony of germans. We are not democratic. We should think about it and change it.
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Why should the German tax payer pay for you to have a better life ?
I pay taxes also. A lot of taxes. My country is paying 9 000 million euros interest rates per year to support european financial crash. Who is profiting? Who helped Germany by the time they were reunified? Who helped Germany after the second war 2? Solidarity and democracy is the key words to UA.
There two ways possible. Be together or be alone. This gray pad is going to end soon or later. We know in Portugal that we are working to give germans a high life style. That’s not good at all.
Nothing in this life is black or white… And that’s the fear mongering EU attitude. Indoctrinating is working like a charm…
in my opinion sovereignty is not needed if they respect cultural differences.
Sovereignty will continue to be relevant for the foreseeable future because I don’t see any alternative to it, insofar as there are competing ideas for governance over the peoples and infrastructure of the same lands.
In terms of EU sovereignty versus nation-state sovereignty, for the time being I think it is best to defer to nation-state sovereignty. We have a lot in common these days but we still have some very significant differences and you can’t paper over that. Furthermore, many people are seeing the alternative to nation states as economic hegemony exercised from Berlin. It could be possible to take this into account in a federal EU system simply through a Senate such as the US has where representation is regional rather than strictly proportional to population, which can act to limit the Parliament.
This would be great if the EU parliament could actually do anything. But since we are presently ruled by the Commission, it’s a moot point.
There is no democracy without people’s sovereignity, is that relevant to you ?
Do not bother to read the comments…
If you have doubts, ask your grandpa.
a sense of self-determination – yes, but that’s diferent from raw blind nationalism. Sovereignty hinges on the accountability of those in power. This is the problem we have – politicians and their parties who become skillfull at avoiding accountability
I saw this on my timeline and thought that since the UK is leaving the EU there would be less(or none at all) comments from certain people that have previously vouched for the unwavering independent will of the United Kingdom. Bewilderingly, my expectations were shattered and I find the same exact people since perhaps 2008 sharing the same Independent UK streak since before. Which leads me to ponder: Are you an AI (doubtful since your level of insult at times is unheard of in AI) or are you just paid UKIP personnel? Obviously one or the other (or any other third alternative for that matter) is legal and can rightfully do what it wants in Facebook, as can everyone else. But I think that by now, considering the hideous way the Brexit referendum took place, how a great many number of people wish it repeated (more importantly here is why), the hate crimes committed on UK soil since that popular vote’s day, that people see through your ideas as nothing short of racist bigotry ( like I personally have since day 1 ) . Hopefully next time there is a vote in the UK that independence-streak party can be stricken of the books so we no longer have to read bigotry and insult. I already know who will reply to this. Be aware I will report anything I believe does not respect my personal views ( I did not say they had to agree of course )
No it’s not, but saying this I really do not wish Europe to go down the road the USA is currently slithering in….
It is…we are getting more and more numerous. ….we have more and more diversities and opinions according to where we live.we can have unity as a whole in diversity.it is called democracy and freedom of choice.
More than ever.
The sovereignty must stay this is the gods plan.
yes it is, Sovereignty makes the EU less efficient but more democratic. MEPs should represent the voice of the people at EU level, but it is its leaders who must be aware of the voters in their own country. We beg, steal and borrow from each other’s cultures, we debate why x here and y there as a way of improving our own situations, but sovereignty anchors down identity (which we need without being fanatical about it), and our sense of control (we can vote out or protest more easily against national govs as the germans did against TTIP). The EU must always be a collaboration, particularly in the face of globalization that would seek to undermine national and EU sovreignty, and the far Right, who would seek to erode hard won rights too. That said, more thinking and engaging at both national and EU levels would certainly help bring back an emphasis on people, its citizens, their needs, their difficulties and so on.
If people are no more souvereign, it means something/someone else is souvereign, otherewise any kind of government would be possible
yes and not.
What a question! You must be kidding….. Ask Polish people – we’ve been fighting for independence from Germany and Russia for centuries. Shame …
YES!!
Come of border of our civilisation and try to go to Turkye – then such stupid Questions ill fall out – commen sense must rule
Is dictorship relavent of around 20,000 or so to control half a billion citizens of the so called European Union ?
Yes
Is European Union still relevant with prosperity? When money flows halted, nationalism, hate and fear emerged.
no
YES!
Sounds like money and business hate borders and politicians are meant to serve. Isn’t it where, in fact, the idea comes from?
is it democrasy still relevant? ( in fact you are asking this)
It depende on what countries we are speaking about. Sovereignity maters and is everything when we speak about USA. Sovereignity does not t manter at all and it is a badaladas think when we speak about all the o there countries in the world which are USA VASSALS or those countries USA BOMBEIROS AND INVADEM because they cabedais about their Sovereignity and want edição to KEEP it like Iraq, Líbia, Síria, Afeganistão… etc… The isso é is… USA want to have a Unified World Government… of COURSE a USA GOVERNMENT… and to get its all the world countries are to give up their Sovereignity… THIS IS IT… and this is sue is being discussão underground controlo of the Imperialism of USA.
Even Federations give tremendous amount of power to the states that incorporate them, theres a reason for that, so one can build a world based on regions but never forgetting sovereignty. Ending it would be ending diversity and creation. In a globalist world we can never forget to preserve Freedom, equality is slavery.
OF COURSE IT IS!!!!How dare you to make such question??????!!
It ia but should not. Human problem “we think too much”
Yes and no is the safest choice at least is seems so..
Are you serious?
Sovereignty – the right to decide on issues of important to oneself.
The answer is yes. Sovereignty is still very relevant!
En alleen frankrijk en duitsland praten met elkaar en niet de andere landen van de eu en dus is het alleen fr.en du. praten
Stupidity
Hershaft for ever
Without sovereignty we would all be beholden to whoever gets elected by the unknown peers of the top dog making up laws for all and sundry. As it stands right now we could easily find that we the taxpayers have funded a Caliphate.
its a illusion
junker and shultz are dictators, Lock Them Up!!
Dacă DUMNEZEU dorea globalizarea , o făcea demult , fără să vă cearăvouă aprobarea ! Globalizarea este un sacrilegiu ÎMPOTRIVA NAȚIUNIOR !
George Dimopoulos Eleni Panagakou
if you belong to Illuminati .. you would cancell all kinds of sovereignities , if not .. that’s an other say!
If sovereignty is not important, why does EU always force his sovereignty over the single state decisions and constitutions?
Stupid question. Yes.
Great! Let´s end sovereignty so there is no state, no nation to demand taxes from us, we live where we want, we’re just planet’s inhabitants and the planet belongs to nobody!!!
Sovereignty is still important. How it is managed has to be reformed. There is so much behind a rational answer to this question!
Funny how these people never ask EU citizens what they think , just air their own ideas . The EU is full of nations with different cultures and customs and languages , and should be preserved , any idea of uniformisation is verging on communism , and shows the idleness of politicians and so-called experts
Um yea when you are tying to force other countries to take refugees
I hope i’ll not be forced to take americans or russians :/
Sovereignty is about being able to choose who creates the laws you live under. It is and will always be relevant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Central_Bank
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugees-are-welcome-in-germany-but-for-how-long-a-1052070.html
As there is no democracy without sovereignty, for sure, it will always be relevant to peoples to be sovereign.
The national sovereignty can only condemn the people of Europe to a destiny of poverty and illiberality
What does it mean? Nation-states under monarchical rule – from where much of it comes of the medieval times & scarce from ancient Greece? Modern democratic states? Modern democratic states would mean states like Switzerland – that can act as a collective via regular referendums, exercizing their collective political will at any given point of time? Each assumes a control thought experiment that doesn’t exist in reality. But it is not just soveteignty but the idea of the state & democracy itself that is fraught with such divorces. Academics like imagining their own pristine concepts as the ideal control thought- experiment vs which the reality should always be shy in comparison (marking the possibility of progress then in the imagination of ability of populace). Or mightily proud like Adolf Hitler sought to order.
Indeed it is
I believe in castles
Yes, the question should be “should sovereighty be national or european”. If i liked this page the answer is obvious i think…
No. Any other answer is untrue; those who answer yes are stating what they wish to be true, not what is.
No in my view. It is too crude and insensitive to local realities, both people’s but also nature. My vision is a world of cities.
.. under a world government to align and cooperate on world-scale problems (movement of people, resources, climate, biodiversity loss)
Jacob Young -_-
YES.
I wish we could be a federation.
Europe has to be the Europe of the european people by european people , for the european people (or of the european nations, by the european nation for the european nation, cause the people is the nation). But it has nothing to do with an “lobbies corrupted”, anti-democratic, extra-national bureaucraty,…
Say NO to Justin Trudeau
You seem confused
Whazzamerica
I would like to say a lot more unpleasant things then just NO :D
You said it it is political – political is equal to criminal! People don’t want to be ruled by Brussels idiots.
EU was really great before you change the economic union, which had sense to a political, which nobody understand an nobody accept!
No puede hablar en nombre de todos,ni llamar idiotas a los que no piensas como usted. Eso es lo que le hace parecer a usted realmente estúpido. Parecer no quiere decir que lo sea. Reflexione.
Yes, it’s very important! Or no sovereignty, NO TAXES PAYMENT!!!
Schiba Es El Tito #DavidGarland
😂😂
Yes, maybe, but it won’t last long. It will be of the the elites only I am afraid.
Of course sovereignty IS STIL HIGHLY RELEVANT AND VERY IMPORTANT. No doubt about that. UE is not a Federation and never will be. And the danger of the germanism is there ! There is no future for the UE unless the member states keep theyr full independence.
No estoy de acuerdo con la afirmación sobre que no será nunca una federación. Yo estoy seguro que lo conseguiremos. Sobre su opinión sobre Alemania,denota un complejo de inferioridad.
National sovereignty in an era of global warming, international terrorism and migration is hardly the be and end all for Europe.
Yes it is. I am against federalism, so for me sovereignty is all. We have already gave up much of our power to Brussels. I do not like this model. I am Portuguese but I am sure that all over Europe there are people who think like me. We should be together, we can have a free market, common policies but this continuous centralization of power in Brussels, no. Europe is made of every and each of their countries, their cultures. Do not finish with that! We, Europeans, were no made to obey to a single government, president or army. The Roman empire failed, the Nazis failed, the Yugoslavia failed, the Spanish failed, the Austro-Hungarian empire failed. We like to be free, independent, cooperate with each other but free. The English people have just said that.
I am not interested in so-called sovereignty ! I am a world citizen anyway, as I have lived in several countries and speak many languages. I am definitely an European. I have lived in federations like Germany, Switzerland,Canada, USA and Germany and realized that the HABSBURGERS were one of the most successful governments for several generations and sovereignty of the different States was efficient then. Nationalism gave us the Mussolinis and Hitlers of this world with dire consequences! We now live in technological different worlds and have to be well organized, informed, eyc…There is no place for fantasies… As far as I am concerned Portugal must wake up to reality!!!and very fast too or it will miss the train!!!
Yeah, they tried to unite Europe, and after that, there was a 30 years long war….
It is an interesting question, particularly, when the USA has so many bases aiming their weapons at local population, when their agents and soldiers kidnap and torture european citizens, and our governments participate in War crimes and violation of international law at the request of AmeriKKKa and Not so great britan. Are these countries even european enough to be our friends?
There should be a compromise between National and European sovereignty. A country that chooses to join an economic and political union shouldn’t then subsequently reconsider and cherry pick the benefits and spoils of the European Common Market; by doing so is political and economic hypocrisy.
Too old fashioned. Shared sovereign or interdependency is the answer.
.
Shared sovereignty is not working to well in the EU is it.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/08/23/why-france-is-the-most-likely-to-be-the-next-to-quit-the-eu
If sovereignty is about individuality, then yes, still valid.
If sovereignty is about pluralism, then yes, it is still valid in any century.
If sovereignty is about leaving thinking and decision space, then yes, still valid.
And, oh by the way, what else is sovereignty?
If sovereignty is about individuality, then yes, still valid.
If sovereignty is about pluralism, then yes, it is still valid in any century.
If sovereignty is about having thinking and decision making space, then yes, still valid.
And, oh by the way, what else is sovereignty?
Two basic principles that go hand in hand: freedom and sovereignty.
.
Nationalism is the natural order, always has been always will be.
Not really. Sovereignty and the nation state were basically invented in 1648. Before you had feudal systems; there was not one single sovereign in a given territory. For a long time, moreover, church and emperor both claimed final authority.
Timothy Roes
Please do try and join the 21st Century.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/netherlands-geert-wilders-politics-far-right
.
More so than ever, if it wasn’t Brussels wouldn’t be trying to steal it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk
Damn stupid globalists! YES IT IS RELEVANT!
The more you push for globalisation the more important sovereignty become!!! Free borders are welcomed by everyone, but that doesn’t mean we should accept a dictate of a “World government” – everybody has its own idiots to govern it!!!!
Not to people who realise they are members of one human species who share one planet. But that is a very small minority. Plus, society and government would have to have very high ethics so people would feel part of a globalised world and relinquish sovereignty. Unfortunately government is no way near ethics. So any globalisation would be unjust and unethical in today’s world.
Not to people who realise they are members of one human species who share one planet. But that is a very small minority. Plus, society and government would have to have very high ethics so people would feel part of a globalised world and relinquish sovereignty. Unfortunately government is no way near ethics. So any globalisation would be unjust and unethical in today’s world.
Amarilda. Iljazi. Famiglia. Iljazi.
Absolutamente!
if you live as a minority in romnia, romnians shove sovereignity in your face to justify any infringement of international law and non appliance of internal law.
No
Peoples sovereignity over their government, yes. Nation-state sovereignity, absolutely not.
Nah, it’s totally obsolete. Just let Russia have Eastern Ukraine. Makes no difference anyway.
Good point.
For ever and everybody living together with their own specifics ! :D
Off course it is
Yes,it is!
Sovereignty is very relevant yet, more then ever: Germany is too much dangerous and only sovereignty could save the EU from a neonazi danger. Surprised? Just remember why and how german people has been manipulated by Hitler. Times are different, conjunctures are the same.
It is an important matter, because it means entrusting someone else with certain measures of control. However, I think if we want to persist in the globalized world as a European people, we must consider sharing partial sovereignty on a European level to act more effectively. This could be achieved in a form of a federal state where certain sovereign competences necessary to tackle problems concerning all European citizens are transferred by the member states to a federal union while maintaining maximum autonomy for the member states in all non pan-european affairs.
That would lead to a European Union, working under the full Principle of Subsidiarity, decentralized and thereby eliminating the undesirable possibility of a European central superstate.
For me, a requirement for such a competence transfer would be the precursory reformation and thorough democratization of the European Institutions, which is usually promoted by the liberal and progressive factions of the EU parliament, as well as large parts of the Commission.
Yes, it is relevant and it will always be relevant. The question, however, is at what level that sovereignty should be exercised (local, regional, national, supranational) and how sovereignty can be protected against para-democratic encroachment, e.g. by superior levels of governance or by corporatism.
Power should be devolved to the most local level possible (not just national), but some decisions need to be pooled at transnational levels, e.g. on inter-continental migration and environmental issues.
More so than ever
Why wanted the the United States of Europe lobby destroy the veto right of the nations in the Council before the Treaty of Lisbon if it is not relevant?
Yes it is….much more the the eu.
Yes
As long as there’s taxation without effective representation, yes!
“Is sovereignty STILL relevant…”
Oh, it has JUST become more and more relevant.
Thanks for asking.
Next question, please. ☺
“Is sovereignty STILL relevant…”
Oh, it has JUST become more and more relevant.
Thanks for asking.
Next question, please. ☺
How many people who discuss sovereignty in the EU even understand the difference between internal and external sovereignty, the sui generis nature of the EU, the democratic deficit, the electoral system, the 3 past pillars of the EU, …. and above all why it is set up the way it is?
Too little, that is why most often we cannot have meaningful debate about this topic on large scale levels.
climate change makes it irrelevant and the states claiming sovereignty the most are causing the climate change
it is, people are tired of centralism…
non-sense. silly question.
relevant as a large number are not wanting to be in a big melting pot and concerned that the social and valuable cultural differences will be overriden by grayness.
Internationalism is destructive to cultural and ethnic diversity.
YES!
If you are asking this question you have not thought about it or you have an agenda
Yes, European Sovereignty
Sovereignity, as in being able to choose your own country’s path without bowing to foreign influence, is without a doubt still fundamental.
The plot twist is: no european country can achieve that by itself. Even mighty Germany is a little player in a big league, playing against China, India, Russia and the United States.
The only sovereignity europeans can achieve is european sovereignity. A United Europe would be a major force, setting terms and deferring to no one.
The higher the ruling powers are, so the distance to the common citizen is bigger, hence empowering those of the elites who can easily access those in charge of governing and deliberating in name of the people. Citizenship would be reduced to voting, so to legitimize the ruling elite every four years, and to play its part in the consumers role in the Great Production Machine, that such a state is up to be.
This question is a derivative of no borders question, and by no borders one do not implies less sovereignty.
No – we must continue in our pursuit to achieve the EUSSR! We must not stop before this is achieved so that we the élite (and our children) will be able to sleep well at night and not have to worry about these populist flies and euro skeptic mosquitos who seek to take away what is rightfully ours here at the top of the food chain! The New World Order must not be stopped, as we must also use NATO to stop Putin!
Is it democrasy still relevant in the 21st Century?
The concept of the sovereign nation-state is two centuries old and totally inoperative for the modern globalised world. If you wanna reverse globalisation then try to live like the Amish People – no internet, no mobile phone, no electricity etc. If not, just dont try to apply old political concepts to the modern global society
Now more than ever!
I never understood this term maybe it is not relevant anymore as democracy is the Europe system and as it should be understood in its most complicated aspects.
More than ever! That’s why we have to get it back.
get it back from whom?
Tyrants
From Merkel
From globalist goys
Yes and its now incredibly important. Its about freedom
The concept of sovereignty often creates misconceptions in what it means. When people claim that they want to have it back, they often talk about the nation. But it is not nations that are sovereign. It is the nations’ people which are the sovereign. And that covers the whole political spectrum, countless different and individual characters and identities.
Sovereignty can be well shared in federal structures, where states transfer _a part_ of their sovereignty to a common, federal level. That allows for effective common politics in the areas where it is necessary while maintaining a very high degree of autonomy for the member states.
I believe that federal, supranational structures where the people of the states agree to share sovereignty through a common constitution and supported by fully democratic structures is the most viable solution for global actors in the 21st century and for all of Europe.
i agree with you but as germans its easy to do so. we will be always able to exert power in a union like this. For us there is no big difference between EU and Nation. But we need to give up some power. Until now we havent and therefore i understand the trouble of the small states.
I think that shared sovereignty will help small states in a two-fold way:
Firstly, the current intergovernmental approach in the EU is the main reason why Germany has the most power. The de facto power in the EU lies with the European Council, which is composed of _national_ politicians. Because of that, the most powerful nation will automatically be able to set the parameters in the whole Union. This is were small states loose. Whoever wants that no European state dominates another must be in favor of a federal structure, where European politics and national politics is strictly. The small states will profit from this.
Secondly is geopolitical aspects. We see a geopolitical development today that tends to go away from supranational institutions like the United Nations towards a multipolar collections of superpowers like the US, Russia, China, India. During this development, small states will lose the ability to influence the global theater. If small states want to maintain that influence, they might have to do it through a channel of a bigger political entity. Again, a federal structure can assure that they keep theese abilities while not being dominated by groups within their own supranational entity.
that is again very true. But its not that rational thinking. The states who would benefit from a reform are against it. This again backlashes against a inefficient EU. Thats highly unfair in my opinion but thats reality. Not sure if i as a small nation would make that bet to be pro european. As a politician i need to sell it to people. Maybe they would be able to but its easier to play the EU vs. nation card. No European Politician can compete with this. We saw it clearly in GB. One will be always able to generate emotions more through nationalism than through an european reform. In many states the EU is an abstract for the people. Also federalism is not seen favorable everywhere.
Yes ! Europe has to become a sovereign nation.
Nation? Sovereign yes. Nation no. We’ve had enough nations, surely
Calls for sovereignty rises as EU messes too much to tell you how to live and is too intrusive… EU also has big Hamburger problem… but left always denounce its profits… Pls read the Business Insider article carefully… Citizens of EU are different we should embrace that divercity http://www.businessinsider.com/liberals-can-win-if-they-stop-being-so-annoying-2017-7
That is the ultimate aim of the international (definitely the European Union) establishment
We need a Europe of sovereign citizens/individuals. Political structures consisting of humans will have to disappear.
Absolutely yes!!!
.
Yes & we ‘have’ taken ours back ! :)
When people claim that they want to have sovereignty back, they often talk about the nation. But it is not nations that are sovereign. It is the nation’s people which are the sovereign. And that covers the whole political spectrum, countless different and individual characters and identities.
Seems like slightly more than the half of your country’s sovereign does not agree with you.
*taking. Oops.
Yes yes, and now go, my dear, why you are still here?
Federico Rossi
Great Britain is leaving the EU not ‘Europe’ so why shouldn’t I be here ?
Very much
obviously
Good question… but, here is another question: What does the Council of the European Union, European Parliament, European Commission think of ALL those so-called nobilities in Europe? How does the EU want to tackle it ALL, before they destroy whole of Europe? Whatta hell is it with some of these losers who only want to “move up rank” and who try to gain more and more power over other people, [citizens!], and undermine democracy!
Completely! Otherwise we will have another Empire, again.
YESSSSSS. More than ever!!!
Golan ??? Ehooo ….
Are the Elite in Brussels representing the European population ???
Or Soros ?
Are we Sorosoid union ?
Sovereignty is all about who the sovereign is, who creates the laws you live under, and who elects the people who do and grants them legislative power. Sovereignty will always be relevant in a democratic system. The EU is far from the ideal image of democracy
Is this really a question? When has it not been and why would it not be?
Germany just proved last years that is following only her interests under the EU umbrella.So this question is null from start .
Absolutely yes because when the political power centre is too far away from the regional problems including people’s every day life there is an inevitable lack of insight what would be the best measures available to solve those problems and improve the quality of people’s everyday life and living.
The ability of understanding different conditions which are the result of huge regional variations (as the Northern part of Europe differs from the Southern part for example) takes much more to manage even the basics of our exceedingly complex society than just some politicians who represent those different regions.
EU should be a complement (when individual states cannot solve the problems which extend beyond borders) and not the replacing substitute for national sovereignty.
So you are proposing a European Federation?
Michael Holz Hardly :-) I am proposing less EU administration and regulations concerning matters which individual member states are more capable to solve on the national level.
It does when it comes to stopping a immigration tsunami that is decimating the indigenous peoples.
Decimating? Seems like the nazis are back in track, I gues the natives are well and alive.
1.5 in one year in Germany alone. Better learn about demographic change.
Not really.
I have on eonly nation the
Not anymore
Votre corps est-il souverain sur votre espace intérieur limité par votre peau ?
Toute autre solution entraîne directement votre MORT !!!
Well obviously. What’s democracy without sovereignty? Like discussing decisions you don’t get to make..
Nope. No place at all in the 21st century. Because the world is global is interconnected, which means actions on a region of the world will affect the rest of it. Not to mention, that all the pressing issue, of this and furute, centuries, can only be solve on an international level, climate change is a example.
Are you even fucking serious? Thinking about disliking this shitty page.
fake debate
Abs.outely, and the EE taking it on the lie that they need no borders no cultura identity and so sovereighnty will bring down the whole European Program, the Europ, and their ain’t gonna be no European army for Germany to use to compete the Fourth Reich
Offcourse yes.
No, it’s a suicide.
Of course it is. The EU has become a straitjacket that we must get rid of. If possible through velvet divorces.
Yes – oui – si.
Yes it is. Multiculturalism has shown that there are massive problems. Some nations are more tolerant than others. So it’s back to the drawing board and stop debating stupid questions.
Ummmm… YES!!
Europe and some of its colonies are caught up in the routine of their culture which is based on bewitched worshipers Life is simply not comfortable unless you have a supreme father figure to worship
Yes, it is. Sovereignty is the basis of democracy. There are areas where all European should cooperate, however we cant and we must not allow nation states to disappear. A bunch of bureaucrats dictating the will of a free nation (from hundreds of kilometers distance) doesn’t sound very democratic. Besides, nobody has thought of something better than nation states. Except in cases where a country and its leadership commit crimes against humanity, unprovoked aggression against other nations and so on, the sovereign will of a nation should be respected. For example I am Bulgarian. Brits don’t want tens of thousands Bulgarians, Romanian and Poles coming in their country each year. My countrymen may not like it, but this is the will of the British nation. If they want to preserve their cultural identity, a stable job market or their social system, then nobody should be able to command them otherwise. I think nowadays many people are mistaking ”democracy” for oligarchy and plutocracy :D The question is what do we want? A free society where people elect their own national governments to decide whats best for a country, or an quasi-imperial structure, where nation states don’t have a voice (and therefore nations and citizens are no longer ”citizen” but rather a subject to a foreign rule)? Do you know who didn’t believe in the souvereign right of nations? Hitler and Stalin. One of them wanted to create a pan-European empire where Germans and Nordics would dominate everyone else, while the other wanted to create ”a fairer one world order” without borders and sovereign nations.
Of course
Destroying sovereignty (aready 28 countries in the EE), will bring chaos, anger, vigilantes, and poverty. Germany (a Limited Liability Company, without a Constitution is the new SS, Nazi regime) leading Europe to a holocaust.
Sure.
Yes but it should be shared by european states in a federal union
Absolutely. Some countries have suffered from oppression for decades or even centuries. They want to be sovereign and independent, why not?
Would you dare to post such a question in former colonial Africa? I doubt.
Debating EU not African continent
You got the point, we’ll done. ;)
Pjer OO Debating ‘Europe’ not the EU.
More than it has ever been!
No more ! Fuck, it’s XXI century!
From the standpoint of a bananacountry citizen, sovereignity looks like elitistic scam
Yes. It is very important
When the unelected try to take it away from you then it is time for you to fight to keep it.
To be sovereign the EU need his own army. NATO is the US instrument of pressure over EU.
Who will an EU army fight ? the French resistance, the Polish resistance, etc ?
The British because we dared leave.
Stephen Pockley They know were to find us :)
it’s a matter of protection, no aggression
Николай Милчев That’s pretty much what the little Austrian with a silly moustache said in 1935. You Europeans have learnt nothing from your history and are destined to repeat it.
Ivan Burrows -globalisation(NATO) or fascism/nazism(national militarism) are all the same – tools for capitalist expansion
Lucy Prelevic-Popova Says the woman typing a post on a product of the very capitalist expansion she fights against ? lol, if you sat so comrade, if you say so :)
EU could only survive as an association of independent states since European nations do not accept any foreign domination.
Not for the unusefull national state.
So please, dissolve your useless national state. Mine is fine to carry on as the oldest of them all…
Portugal is the oldest state in this continent? Where have you read that shit?
Dissolve Italy in favour of a fusion with Germany, French and Spain? Please now.
What ever you wish as long as you leave my nation out. I want no union with corrupts, mafia and imperialists.
Hahaha a Portuguese that speak against imperialism, you are so grotesque…
Well, Portugal has no empire, has it? The only grotesque thing here is the EU and it’s minions.
I have the impression that this absence now, contribute to the hate against the rest of the Europe and your butthurt, but It’s just an impression… ah, Brazil is improbable that would ever return under your ridicule piece of earth…
And I am under the impression that you don’t understand why one love his own nation because you never had one.
As for the “ridicule piece of land”, that is certainly meant to your’s, where one dies with a feeble 4.0 earthquake (third worldish in fact).
Finally, I don’t want Brazil back, I want my nation “Proudly Alone” as we’ve always been.
PS: You’re so ignorant that from the more than 50 countries that were once portuguese colonies you only know Brazil…lol
Hahahaha so so ridicule, “proudly alone” Hahahaha too became a Chinese supermarket or a Russian version of the aways, go to hell traitors of your own people.
I only cited the most important and well known colony, ridicule nationalist of this shit.
And I live in northern Italy, the GDP of my region, alone, is equivalent to 4 Portugal with the same population… so please, quite yourself, “Terrone” of Europe.
Lol…said the guy that is trying to advocate for the EU that just recently as 2013 oblidged Portugal to sell several PUBLIC portuguese companies to….CHINA. You europhiles are indeed a joke. You people are so ignorant you don’t even know what the EU is or does. Go back to high school lad. Go learn something. A traitor is anyone that tries to sell my nation’s sovereignty to a corrupt, useless and ill intentioned institution like the EU.
PS: Anyway, thank God for China since the companies sold to the french and the spanish went all bankrupt or were simply dislocated out of Portugal.
Yes yes yes, little nationalist with the ass in moskow, believe to…
Ah, if it wasn’t for the eu commission and parliament, the Chinese state predatory investment in Europe would be decuplicate, and you know why? Because we do not recognise to them the status of free market… and you know what Portugal can do alone in this camp? Accept in silence every chinian decision, and whay? Because a continent of 28 nation can impose their rule, a single nation no, if do not want an embargo…
Please return to your little, claustrophobic, nationalistic dream and let work people that know how world go.
Portugal not only can do that alone as it can do that much better. The EU sets maket rules that we have no power over. During the 90’s, our clothing industry was almost extinct due to the clothing trade agreement made by the EU with China. Did the EU care when Portugal complained? Of couse not because Germans have no clothing industry and the agreement open China’s markets to Germany’s car industry. Out of the EU that would never happen to Portugal because negotiation would happen directly between China and Portugal and we would have a final word about any agreement. Fact remains, China never owned so much of Portugal’s private economy as it does today, within the EU. Clearly your argument is clashing against reality lad. You “28 nations” power is a clowns joke.
By the way, I told you already..do whatever you want, just leave us out. Go on and keep selling your soul to Brussel’s mafia. See if I care…
Hahahahahahahahahhahahaha
Nice argument. When confronted with reality you eurolunatics can only life because you have no arguments.
Nice argument. When confronted with reality you eurolunatics can only laugh because they have no arguments.
Ok
Yes. As long as a nation state has military forces it has sovereignty.
Debating EU, more and more stupid questions every day!
Hint: check out the partners listed on the website and then you’ll understand. ;)
Nothing wrong with loving your country and it’s culture. This makes the world an interesting place. It doesn’t make a person intolerant per se , only ideologies create intolerance.
Offcourse. And increasingly.
Of course yes. A nation may choose to share it’s sovereignty with other nations, but it still has to be a sovereign nation to do that.
Absolutely!
Sovereing but in a union federal!
Are welfare states as free health services relevante?.
Of course. The world is divided in administrative areas in order to collect taxes and redistribution via welfare states.
As long as we are not immortals, not all the people are tolerant and peaceful and we can’t eat rocks, sovereignty is necessary to keep a basic order.
is it democrasy still relevant in 21st Cenntury?? that is the question under “sovereignty”
time that the sovereign gets important: each and every person.
yes, sovereignty is still relative/important, that is unless you believe in a NWO/one world government
What a question :O Sovereignty is a basic thing and if anyone wants to strip it away from independent countries, then they are felons… Debating Europe, you ask more and more weird questions …. Who do you serve? I find it disgusting :(
ask that question to the Ukrainian people. They’ll tell you that 10100 deads paid with their lives to defend their peace and sovereignty against russia. So yes, that is still relevant.
Still relevant, yes.
Well … My Genetic base origin is the Greek Macedonia … So, is Ancient Macedonia still relevant today ? …
yes, as long as the EC is controlled by the mafia…yes
I think we should think on Europe as the USE (“United States of Europe”)… So a federal system which englobes different nationalities on a greater country.
I think you should stick your nose in your own sorry excuse of a country instead of meddling in other’s nations.
Obviously, otherwise the EU wouldn’t be trying to still our sovereingty for it’s own sake. Let’s hope the EU explodes before that happens, or believe me, there will be war among us.
Where sovereignty opposes cooperation of states – i.e. institutions of socal administration – it is of no use. What are topics of sovereignty? Security – badly in need of cooperation, military – de facto a matter of NATO, construction work – well, I dont know about that. Take Austria’s neutrality: Still existing for the tabloids and in the mind of people, practically pointless and in the way of things.
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
What a stupid question … or let’s guess are you now hinting us for s new Eu devilish plan ???
EU must be a really Union or a Federation. If not, doesn’t has Future.
The union must be really united specially against Islamic migrants.
Lol, count me out of that nightmare of yours…
José Bessa da Silva optimo poder não contar com os fascistas do politicamente correcto do SecXXI.
Europe is a collections of people that share their European ideals, the people do not want that to change. The EU wants a superstate the people want the EU to represent Europe not globalism in social and business. It seems the liberal elite wish to destroy the diversity of European indigenous people with a superstate. In a global world Europeans are a minority and our smaller nations are very very small.
yes very relevant and always will be
Better than ever!!!!!!!
Not if we want to survive as a civilization.
NATO the enemy numero 1 of europeans
europa dictatur,nazis
Fool.
In the 40’s, a guy called Adolf, in Germany, got the same idea, unite the Europe, like Napoleonic, holly saint empire, byzantin, roman empires, strange…
Joe Grixti tu puta madre
L’Europa non è fatta solo di ditratoori e nazisti
Just as every human being must have an area of his own privacy, so every nation must have its sovereignty.
No. It must have its own area of policies that it keeps. It still can share sovereignty in certainty political areas. Your own analogy.
Not if it’s done without the real voluntary of the people…
Sono tante famiglie che devono unirsi nelle questioni importanti ma guai se perdono le loro carateristiche individuali
Sovereignty means being able to raise €470 billion for my development project proposal in Greece and the European Union without barriers imposed by the peasants from the French sponsored Greek Banana Republic with its French system but without the French Chateaus of France or the Castles of Germany , that will recover 564 lost years from the destruction of the Greek Formal Culture by the Ottomans in Byzantine Constantinople in 1453, without having the French Style State dominated closed and protectionist communist economic model in Greece , impose restrictions on where I can cone construct my Versailles or Neuschwanstein Castle n Greece !!!! Until Greece has its own Versailles as in France or Neuschwanstein Castle as in Germany , then the French Style State Dominated closed and protectionist economic model that has being adopted in Greece since 1974 in completely incompatible,
Yes, a lot of people lost their lives fighting for it. My Country Matters to me a citizen of Ireland.
With you 100% Mary. Keep in mind this page is actually just another EU propaganda page.
Yes absolutely
Now it is needed more than ever
EU must become one single democratic state concern the sovereignty issue, same wrights and same obligations
Are you dreaming??? It can’t be changed….
They can’t even manage basic democracy,like asking the people what future they want
la globalizzazione imperialista finanziaria e militare è essa stessa il problema non solo europeo. .Per esistere ha bisogno che gli Stati vengano svuotati La sovranità economica e politica è essenziale per ogni Stato oggi più che mai .
per la sovranità europea si è partiti con il piede sbagliato e bisogna tornare indietro e ripartire dal punto di collesione. togliere l’euro , togliere il Trattato di Maastricht , togliere il Trattato di Lisbona e ridare forza alle Costituzioni nazionali dove ci sono i sani principi di vita .
Do not agree.
Joe Grixti su cosa non sei d’accordo, spiegati
C’est impossible Stefania, chaque pays vote chaque semaine, l’UE ne changera jamais. Il vaut mieux la quitter!
l’euro (rafforzato dai Trattati ) è stata una gabbia forzata per costringere gli Stati europei ad unirsi. In questo progetto era stata favorita la Germania di riprendere il SUO sogno di conquista . Lei ha usato tutte le condizioni a lei favorevoli e ne ha ABUSATO , non ha tenuto conto delle necessità degli altri, ha pensato solo a se stessa , gli europei NON SONO TEDESCHI , ognuno deve essere rispettato, la Germania non ha rispettato nessuno per cui il suo sogno è SALTATO nessuno sogna di dare ancora potere alla Germania , alla guida ha dimostrato solo un grande egoismo , nè tantomeno alla Francia ( imperialista globalista come i guerrafondai inglesi ecc… devono mettersi in testa di inseguire LA PACE poichè stanno rovinando la vita a TUTTI . Hanno portato scompiglio in 4 continenti su 5 ) . Se non vengono rispettate le sovranità ad iniziare da quella economica poi politica , succede un’altra guerra mondiale. I nostri padri Costituenti , dopo l’esperienza di due guerre mondiali, ci hanno dato tutte le indicazioni su come STARE BENE INSIEME IN PACE in europa e fuori , è tutto scritto nella NOSTRA COSTITUZIONE , noi sappiamo cosa fare , devono permetterci di applicarla prima di tutti a noi stessi e se vogliono la applicano anche loro .Noi non vogliamo più fare cose contro il nostro volere , vogliamo essere RISPETTATI . Torniamo indietro e ripartiamo da dove ci siamo URTATI
The word sovereignity, comes from “supreme ruler, master”. There can be no sovereignity without master class.
Ultima ratii
Choose your master.
Sovereignty is all about whi has dominion over you. That should be ultimately you. In a democracy, we delegate some of our sovereigmty to other people who create the lawz we live and operate under. Yes, it is important who these people are and what kind of authority you delegate to them
it depends what sovereignty means in this discussion?
use the correct map ya faggots
The map is partially correct. Tinutul Secuiesc nu e trecut pe harta
Cultural differences matter and democracy = DiEM25 “New Deal for Europe”: https://diem25.org/end/
As far as I can see, people don’t mind to pay taxes to their respective national governments or to Brussels, as long as they perceive we are all working for the sake of everyone.
Of course, extremists will keep repeating mantras against EU and pro Nationalism. But the majority of people are in the middle ground.
According to what I read, current anti EU sentiments come from the feelings of Germany having too much influence, a huge economic crisis and imposed austerity, lack of democracy in Brussels, uncontrolled legal migration etc.
EU is my project and I love it. But EU must do more to show EU is more than bureaucrats, and that every step that EU take, is to bring well being and development (social, economic and equity) to EU citizens.
We must stop far right and left movements whatever it takes, and recover the confidence of millions who now feel EU doesn’t represent them.
A new EU stronger and more solid can raise from this crisis, but it is a hard job.
You seem to think the majority of people trapped in the EU actually want it, they don’t.
The sooner the EU dictatorship ends & Nations are returned to their people the better for all concerned.
https://www.thelocal.fr/20160330/france-home-to-more-eurosceptics-than-the-uk
Our friend Ivan seems to be very active under almost every single post about EU. Coincidence? I don’t think so :)
According to some polls 65-68% of French people are against EU. But then they vote a very pro EU president as Macron.
In my opinion, what French people are saying is EU must be reformed, fix illegal migration and economic imbalances, promote economic development and social and gender equity, be more democratic and accountable to citizens and more focus in EU citizens well being.
So, instead of being anti EU or EU fanatic, there is a middle path that you can joing Ivan, and it is asking for serious reforms within the EU.
Of course everyone must defend whatever he/she wants. But in my opinion is more constructive to work within to improve EU that just demonise whatever it is related with it.
Farage never did anything positive for anyone else than him in his live. And criticism coming from UK was positive when UK was in.
Tiromanzino May, or whatever youŕ name is, you are yet another fake Ciudadanos trolling account. 😈🤔
Miquel Riera I am not Ciudadanos, but anyway you speak Ciudadanos as if they were evil, when they are a Catalan democratic liberal political party that is part of the ALDE Party – Liberals and Democrats for Europe.
You can like or dislike them, but they have nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary, they are defending on a daily basis de rights of Catalans against the coup.
One universal laws in EU
No, that is Medieval and only serves certain interests…Language and Culture are more important with English as intercommunication language!
Do you mean american? Next step, same food, clothes and cars?
No, that means being practical …America is currently rather inward looking and not very aware of what is going on…The respect for mutual HUMAN RIGHTS is for me the most important!
Sovereignty is absolutely relevant and is under attack.
Sovereignty and national cultural identity are in the interest of the individuals, they form the basis of who we are and support our cultural/ethnic/language diversity. Diversity is a value.
Eliminating sovereignty and replacing the national cultural identity with the artificially groomed “European” identity-construct is only in the interest of global capitalists who distribute their mass products to the European markets and our ethnic/language/cultural diversity increases the cost of bringing those mass products to market.
Forcing an artificial European uniformity on the peoples of Europe is fascistic, even if it’s carried out by brainwashing.
Well said,I find this forced European identity a bit creepy to be honest
Yeah..
Our diversity is a value, not to be squandered away. And sovereignty is a key to preserving the diversity.
Agree. Transnationalism is a globalist construct designed to increase FMCG profit margins
Popular sovereignty at the European level and a capable political union (republic) to protect our interests.
There is no ‘popular sovereignty at the European level ‘, would you ask the 440 million people in the EU if they want a full political union or just use the standard EU tools to ignore the will of the people and force it onto them anyway ?
Yes, I want a functioning parliamentary democracy at the European level. Only mature populations should be allowed to join, after referendum on Basic Law ensuring fundamental rights and suffiecient powers.
Ralf Grahn The European treaties do not allow for a parliamentary democracy & instead you are ruled over by an unelected president & his unelected commission which is the exact opposite of a democracy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4592243.stm
By now it looks as if the citizens of the EU are a bit more prepared for European level democracy and powers, more than the national governments who still own the union.
The more the unelected elite in Brussels take power from the people the more those people are turning against the EU. Sovereignty is everything which is why the Brussels dictatorship are hell bent on taking it from the Nation States using the same tactics of lies, half truths, threats and intimidation used by every other failed European ideology..
Nationalism is the natural state, the EU is an abomination.
Take your pills !
Shiva Elias Vishnu Wow comrade, did you get an adult to help you formulate such an insightful response ?
http://www.westmonster.com/polands-eurosceptic-government-receive-record-high-support/
Divide et impera !