tsipras-greece

UPDATE 03/07/2015: Greeks will vote in a referendum on Sunday to decide the future of their country. Ahead of the vote, what do our readers think? How do YOU think Greece should vote? Let us know in the poll below:

 

Greek Prime Minsiter Alexis Tsipras has called a shock referendum on reform proposals by the country’s creditors. The Greek government is formally recommending a ‘No’ vote to the proposals, and is arguing that a vote for rejection would not imperil Greek membership of the euro.

However, the most recent opinion polls point to a ‘Yes’ result, and economists warn that a Greek default within the Eurozone may be unsustainable if the ECB refuses additional funding.

The proposals from the institutions have been published online, and include reforms to VAT, pension, and public administration, as well as tax increases and budget cuts (including cuts to the Greek military budget).

In return, the institutions would have offered a five month extension on Greece’s bailout and €15.5bn in additional funding.

Greece is now expected to miss its IMF loan repayment due on 30 June. Technically, IMF rules consider non-payment as money owed in ‘arrears’ instead of a formal default, so this will not represent a ‘credit event’.

Nevertheless, alienating the IMF at this point could pose future problems for Greece if the country does indeed ultimately leave the Eurozone.

In response to Tsipras’ decision to hold a referendum on 5 July, the Eurogroup (the group of Eurozone finance ministers) have denied the Greek government’s request for a temporary extension of its bailout funding, meaning that Greece is now perilously close to bankruptcy.

In response, banks have been closed in Greece today, and capital controls will be implemented, introducing withdrawal limits of €60 per day at ATMs and restrictions on moving money abroad.

Tsipras reacted angrily to the Eurogroup’s decision in a television address, calling it an attempt to “blackmail” Greek voters:

tsipras[The Eurogroup and ECB] seek to bar the right of a sovereign people to exercise their democratic prerogative… It is clear that the objective of the Eurogroup’s and ECB’s decisions is to attempt to blackmail the will of the Greek people and to hinder democratic processes, namely holding the referendum…

How should Greece vote in the upcoming referendum? Should they reject the proposals from Greece’s creditors? Will a positive vote in a referendum provide broad support for structural reforms to the Greek economy? Or are Greek voters being blackmailed by the Eurogroup and ECB? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: Greek Government


458 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

  1. avatar
    Thanos Papagewrgiou

    Greek people know how to face those who threat their freedom, they have done it several time in the past and they will do it now! NO to the proposals!!!!

  2. avatar
    Gerasimos Laios

    The proposals of the creditors have been withdrawn. Therefore they cannot be accepted or rejected. The whole thing is a joke.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Mr Tsipras is taking Greece out of the Eurozone without even telling the people.

    • avatar
      O ELLHNAS

      Tsipras testar sitt folk.Han vill kolla en gång till om han har mandat för vad han står för.
      Regarding the EU. I was one of those who fought for the European Idea.
      I see the EU today as a union in which capitalists, corrupt politicians, and the brazen thieves survive best. I drop a big shit to the kind of Europe and I do not care if it goes to hell Yvetta

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      The biggest thieves in Europe are in Greece so no need to play the innocent Maria.

  3. avatar
    Ivan Burrows

    .

    Their referendum is being reported as a vote on EU membership and given what the EU has done to Greece they should vote to leave.

    The peoples of Europe were sold the Euro lie to blind them to the reality of ‘ever closer union’.

    Now people are beginning to see the reality of EU federalism and are turning against it across Europe and here in Great Britain making the outcome of both the Euro and the EU inevitable, total collapse of the current regime with all the associated recriminations.

    Rule without consent is a dictatorship not a democracy, no matter what colour the flag is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/11705175/Protests-break-out-in-Greece-calling-for-EU-exit.html

    • avatar
      Angela

      You are right. We are British – English living in Greece and suffering in this crisis. What will be the future of our daughter if I ( who as a Greek can vote) vote a YES? It is clear that it will not be good. Freedom from the chains of austerity and autocracy. Good luck to all of Europeans and Britain.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      Yes – “ever closer union” logically and practically means the elimination of nation states – the psychotic dream of Jean Monnet. There has never been any democratic mandate for his scheme.

      The EU is unreformable as a result and should be ditched in favour of forums for co-operation among nation states. The political loyalties of most people remain with their nations, not the EU.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      No vote and get out of the EU greece ,we will be closely behind you

    • avatar
      Peter

      I can’t understand all the righteous indignation about the financial mess that Greece is in?? For whatever reason, Greece borrowed all that money over time and can’t pay it back! They were is a financial mess even before the GFC hit , and all that did was make a bad situation worse! The ECB and IMF saw fit to help Greece by loaning it the money in their time of need and now when Greece can’t pay back what it happily took in the first place,now it is somehow the big bad lenders fault?? Your gotta be kidding me. It is a well known fact that Not paying tax in Greece has been a national sport for decades. Apparently Greeks seem to think it OK to live comfortably off other peoples’ money but revolt as soon as it comes time to pay the ferry man. I think Greece should be ashamed of itself if it votes no and if so off to financial oblivion it must go. The Greeks made their own bed, now they must lie in it as failing to pay their debts is the same as stealing! Talk about sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will all go away……you gotta be dreaming!

    • avatar
      Smaragda Skordi

      It seems you understand how we feel…… such questions have different meaning for every person and many different interpretations……..

    • avatar
      Cesar

      i just hope people in Greece think carefully and realize the impact of their decision.
      sometimes ideology blinds people and makes it harder to negotiate with such people. A compromise is key for everybody in Europe.

      But people in Greece will decide and then we will find out what happens.

    • avatar
      bert van santen

      Go ahead!
      Do that!
      10 years of misery due to the EU undemocratic laws and rules behind You, and now another 15 years of misery in the forecast.
      All misery in the whole of Europe thanks to a wet dream of bankers and EU politicans
      You got the chance to change it all and say NO, I truly wish I could

    • avatar
      Steve P

      Vote NO and bring this EU sham down.

    • avatar
      Chris

      You have no right to vote. Slaves don’t have rights.

  4. avatar
    Miguel Rodrigues

    “a positive vote provide broad support for structural reforms” vs “reject”… your dishonest question couldn’t be more evident! Debating Europe : you are despicable and laughable at the same time.

  5. avatar
    Maria Helena Neto

    Greeks should vote NO if creditors don’t improve proposals in a way that they can get out of the austerity that is destroying their economy .

  6. avatar
    Sebastien Chopin

    Go on vote… a fantastic choice of two evils….. Please demonstrate once more the non-importance of a vote…. and how everyone’s just taking the piss on both sides….

  7. avatar
    Theodoros Kondakos

    If Greece votes yes to such measures we are done. What IMF asks is masochistic unrealistic and makes no sense.

    • avatar
      bert van santen

      That is impossible.
      As soon as the Greek ref will turn YES, the politicians all over the EU will scream victory, and push the Greek further into trouble on a level unknown deep by now, just to show the other EU countries with the thoughts to think for themselfs what will happen if they turn against the holy religion of EU and Euro

  8. avatar
    Carlos Em Lisboa

    Its not a question of ” who ” wins and who lose this case …the truth is a aceptable middelway for Greece and the EU .

  9. avatar
    nando

    They should vote according to their conscience!
    But, I think they should vote against the stranglehold that the “institutions” have put on them. The EU we know today is not conducive to progress and this is one push towards a revised EU.

  10. avatar
    Yanis Sarto

    This referendum should be withdrawn and this administration should resign.This has nothing to do with freedom, democracy or other symbolisms. This has to do with manipulation of the masses by an extreme leftist party

  11. avatar
    Nando Aidos

    They should vote according to their conscience!
    But, I think they should vote against the stranglehold that the “institutions” have put on them.
    The EU we know today is not conducive to progress and this is one push towards a revised EU.

  12. avatar
    Chris Alexander Zervas

    ~ THERE IS ONLY ONE (1), BUT V-I-T-A-L QUESTION FOR: IMF – ECB & E.E.: ” WHY DO THEY HATE GREEK PEOPLE SO MUCH & THEY ARE ACTING BY PUNISHING US ?”

    • avatar
      Cesar

      as if Greece was the only country to face the IMF/ECB/E.E. demands… when you ask for money and agree to certain terms you should keep your word.
      Greece already had part of its debt forgiven… how did that look to other countries that are struggling to pay to these institutions and had no pardon??

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      It is Greek politicians that seem to hate Greek people, Chris, that’s why they have amassed this debt. The question is: what has the money been spent on?

    • avatar
      Vasiliki-Papaioannou

      Cesar the part of the debt forgiven was our pension money. Look it up!!

    • avatar
      bert van santen

      Simple…………the Greek voted DEMOCRATIC for a government, which hasn`t full approvement from “Brussels” and “Berlin”
      Democracy and the ability to disapprove the EU manner of politics is something “Brussels “and Berlin” can`t approve.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      If you disapprove of the EU, you get out of it Bert. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, you know. The Greeks want to stay in the EU and have elected an anti-EU government to do that. Can you explain to us how that was going to work?

  13. avatar
    Aleksejs Miščuks

    Yeah yeah, when Baltics had this kinda shit we clenched our teeth and didn’t bitch about unfairness of life. But then again what are we compared to the glorious Greek royalties who can riot, elect populist commies and then make dem big puppy eyes like they didn’t know what consequences they could face. Leave or don’t leave – doesn’t really matter now.

  14. avatar
    Tim Rokka

    Bankruptcy means death, pure and simple… it means no money for food, no money for heating, no money for healthcare, no money for transportation… Everything just stops! imagine yourself being in such a situation totally without money, now imagine a whole country… thats whats at stake here…

    • avatar
      lisa

      yep, thats whats going on 5 years now actually

  15. avatar
    Daniel Madruga

    They should vote NO! They should reinforce their patriotic government negotiation power and increase pressure on creditors and say if You want us Greeks to pay you, first you need to give us time to grow, and the conditions to do it. You can’t kill a country economically and expect it to bend as you please. People’s dignity are at stake. Please Greeks, vote NO!

  16. avatar
    Daniel Madruga

    They should vote NO! They should reinforce their patriotic government negotiation power and increase pressure on creditors and say if You want us Greeks to pay you, first you need to give us time to grow, and the conditions to do it. You can’t kill a country economically and expect it to bend as you please. People’s dignity are at stake. Please Greeks, vote NO!

    • avatar
      Ioannis

      Tax income is not that bad, but corruption… That is beyond belief

  17. avatar
    Dino Boy Mican

    Aleksejs Miscuks you know that after 30 years of heavy subsidisation and with a nationalist-patriotic education Greeks believe they are superior, close to or even more civilised than the western countries. They feel that the whole world owes them and the eurozone is there to sustain them while they sit in cafes debating politics

    • avatar
      Ioannis

      This is such an ugly generalisation. The vast majority of Greek people do not feel superior to anybody. Just proud of their history as every nation in the world

    • avatar
      Ioannis

      Not to mention the record working hours compared to any EU country. Look at the numbers before jumping to conclusions

  18. avatar
    Taline Babikian Angelidou

    what ever they decide to do, they will bear the consequences…part of the Cyprus crisis was related to their economy, corruption through the years has hit the fan…and here in Cyprus many still shout out for ‘mother land’ and morally want to support…they dont like rules and regulations and when EU, Troika were called in to sort out the mess they started hating them …it’s a no win situation with Greece, beautiful people and country with corruption…the rules are tough the measures are tough too…if they leave, they will bite their nails for next 5 -10 years to sort out and clean the corruption otherwise it will be same again..

  19. avatar
    Charles Zammit

    Which ever way they vote they are going to bite the bullit No more easy way out for the Greeks Best of luck for them And Europe

  20. avatar
    Muscas Anne

    Against harsh austerity measures which led the country to an economic depression for the past five years since 2010. No more!!

  21. avatar
    Albert Plug

    This may be of EU concern, but the Greeks solely decide, what to vote. Advice from EU, how well ment it may be, comes a little bit too late, and probably will be considered as interference with internal affairs.

  22. avatar
    Jason Picci

    Why should they vote yes. Brics bank can look after the IMF and ECB debtmongers for peanuts.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Well said…It is a PM’s job to make such decisions in good time and not wait for anything or avoid responsibility. It is called REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY, Mr Tsipras, and MEETING A DEADLINE, ever heard of those two terms?

  23. avatar
    Lourd McCabe Brockmann

    they must be well organised to be able to have a ref so quickly,,,, something smells fishy, if the Greek people vote No, who will do business with them and who will risk going on holidays to their lovely country if they cant pay salaries to airport staff, police, civil administration,,,, and the list goes on,

  24. avatar
    Dimitris Stamiris

    What I write here is what TSIPRAS says :

    1st we want to pay
    2d we want to stay in eu
    3d we want Ta stay in eurozone

    BUT
    1st five years we have pay 4 times the debt and now is higher than 2009 !!! That means troika have no idea how to take money without distort the all country
    2d the way they want us to pay is without workers , without factories ect BUT THEY WANT MONEY is like they want to kill us
    3d without a healthy market how you will take the money ?
    4th the money we must pay HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE MONEY

    SO THE “NO” IS BECAUSE WE DONT WANT GERMANYS PLAN FOR GREECE !!!! WE SUPPORT THAT THEY MUST LET US GROW UP OUR MARKET SO WE CAN PAY OUR DEBT WITHOUT THIS DEBT GROW !!!!

    IF WE VOTE “YES” , THAT MEANS COME AND KILL US GERMANY AS YOU DO ALL THOSE YEARS

    GERMANY MYST THINK THAT PEOPLE LEAVE HERE WHO WORKO MORE HRS THAN GERMANS AND PAY MORE TAXES THEN ANYONE IN EU

    THE SAME TIME YOU SEE US AT SEA SIDE WITH SMILLE ….. FORGIVE US … WE ARE GREEKS AND WE CANNOT LOSE OUR SMILLE !!!!!!!

    Μιχαλης Μιχαηλιδης Panos Skouroliakos Μαρθα Σκανδαλαρη Xristina Skandalari Κώστας Λουμιώτης Κώστας Βα’ι’τσης Daria Bilska-Stamiri

    • avatar
      Mariela

      Yes,maybe u cant lose your smile ,because you have some money in the banks outside of Greece.If you stay hungry and see what is real poor life than i am curious to see if u will be”at the sea side with smile”

    • avatar
      Linzi Pearce

      Mariela, have you EVER been to Greece? Have any of the people who are calling Greeks ‘lazy’ EVER been to Greece! I have been coming here in the summer for over 30 years and, I watch as people work LONG hours and do NOT live in mansions by the sea and who pay their taxes on time. People who are friendly, smart and have an opinion. Should they be dammed for being able to smile even when things are intolerable? All these people making comments about Greek laziness have you walked the streets of Athens lately and seen the homeless living in the streets, thousands of them?!! The pensioners who live on 300 euros a month and who are supporting their children and grandchildren on this meagre amount because of the massive unemployment! All the rich Greeks you talk about are about 2% of the population with ALL the money and most of that money they have already moved overseas! I have learnt NEVER to blame a whole people or race or nation for problems created by only a few. There are lazy people in every country in the world, please, do not make out that EVERYONE in Greece is living some holiday camp adventure. A bit of respect for those struggling and trying their best in ANY country.

  25. avatar
    Ferenc Lázár

    They should vote to get out from eurozone! It’s better for them, because they can prove that their society manages without so called ‘help” of other eurozone countries, better for others who believe that they “sponsored” Greece for years despite of their more modest economies(like Portugal, Litvania, Slovenia, Slovakia etc.)

  26. avatar
    klassen

    The greek govt are heros..!
    We need more leaders like them.
    We all need referendums in all of europe , this is great news for the greek people ..
    Of course a big NO MORE to the banksters…..
    We need democracy in europe. I wish we had more leaders like Tspiras, its a good day for greece and the the countries in the eu. Maybe democracy still has a chance?
    Mr Junker/Van Rumpy/ Merkel, and the rest of the corporate/bankster stooges should sit up and learn something from all of this, and stop calling themselves democratic…..
    Other countries have also defaulted and have grown to be great countries. 45 upcoming years of austerity for greece, i know what id do.
    Look at iceland/canada and more, they defaulted and have gone on to grow..
    85% or more of europe is with you!!!!
    GO GREECE GO, let the banksters smell one!!!!!

    • avatar
      Tzetis M.O

      Hope that is what will happen BUT the weaker partner rarely wins over the stronger one! Unfortunately that seems to be the norm. However Greeks are NOT lazy and they have not taken advantage of the Eurorean good will. It is very likely the opposite!! Neoliberalism and “money makes the world go around” unfortunately still wins! Who really cares for those unfortunate ones that are outside the system? Use your conscience and vote. Although I believe that in the end whatever the result of the referendum it is a lose-lose situation in the short run for Greece and in the long run we all die anyway

  27. avatar
    Lourd McCabe Brockmann

    so you´ll survive on your own if you vote no, but sentiment about and nomatter how brave your countrymen are, how will they survive without money? you will probably have to make even more sacrifices to bring back the country to efficiency and still owe huge debts but without international help: beautiful as it is will the tourists still come? I would be nervous coming to holiday in that case – and this stockpiling of money can only make the situation worse, and remember money is also owed to smaller nations who them themselves are in trouble too, its fairly dire,

  28. avatar
    Maria Fatima

    Grécia Estou com Vocês! Mantenham-se unidos na decisão de não baixar as cabeças Fosse eu forte como as rochas .que fazem as ondas recuar.Fosse eu forte como Deus. Mandaria os alemães a Mer.

  29. avatar
    Andreas Agathokleous

    No. The creditors have already profited too much out of this. They can’t keep ruling and dictating over nations and governments simply because they are ”creditors”. Something goes terribly wrong here and it should stop asap. The only answer is a big NO.

  30. avatar
    NOTH BILL

    ΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!We should not tolerate the role of serve we have imposed.
    Let us not swallow the candy “can not be anything else” ..
    Of course it can !!
    Our people has proven countless times.
    They find alternatives and roads, where there are none, to struggle and perseverance!
    Let us be worthy of modern historical circumstances ..
    Otherwise, our heroic past will be lost along with us forever

  31. avatar
    Orestis Matsoukas

    YES. Greek people sucrificed too many to get and stay inside Eurozone. Its our right to remain in the core of tge EU.

  32. avatar
    Alex Borg

    This is not the EU I voted for!! Greeks should vote NO, in the face of Anglo-Saxon Teutonic economic hegemony. Why should the Greek people suffer for the corruption of their politicians and military people who accepted to take German loans to buy German submarines!

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      On the subject of apparent Anglo-Saxon hegemony, the UK is not in the eurozone (thankfully) and our banks have a tiny amount of investment exposure in Greece. For these reasons, David Cameron has had no role in these negotiations and said very little.

  33. avatar
    Armanto Culhai

    I wish Good luck for the Greece :) good bless Greece :) , I m Albanian and I m proud of Greeks coz Greek was the Country that I grow up and helped me for my Future to be what I m to day :) I wouldn’t liked that never to happen some thing bad for the Greeks :) #Europe #union will get destroy with out #Greece :(

  34. avatar
    Dino Boy Mican

    Greeks need a rehaul, state and minds. They shouldn’t get money and they shouldn’t get to keep their spot in the exclusive eurozone club without strict conditions. If they are given slack they won’t change

  35. avatar
    Joao Antonio Camoes

    It’s up to the greek people. We should not interfere. Both resolutions will be very hard for them and it wont be easy to decide their future

  36. avatar
    Rainer John

    It doesn`t matter. Future depends on the conditions of a compromise inside the Euro-Group.

  37. avatar
    Vagelis Pagonis

    We will vote NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO with out passion and fear and the Europe that they want to set up for us they can keep it for them selfs

  38. avatar
    Afrim Morina

    Greeks should leave EU and the EU should impose visas restrictions on Greece and see how Greeks like it!

  39. avatar
    Myron Kanakis

    Well i have to say some thing mostly to fellow citizens of “weak” countries ,By weak i mean weak economies cause all the countries are powerfull and their greatest capital was,is and always would be their human capital.And to be more specific i mean the Baltic countries ,Hungary,Slovakia and some more that reading the comments everyday here i can see how hatefull they are against the greeks.
    You have to wish that we vote for NO in the coming referendum.After 5 years of austerity,of 8000 suicides,of half million mostly scientists immigrating abroad ,of 400000 small companies to close and much more ,it was about time to show to the burreacrats of Bruxxells that enough is enough.
    Even the german occupy in ww2 lastes fewer years in my country.
    You have also to know that if we fall down ,if we say yes to what the “institutions” are asking you would be the next.They dont want to help economy they want to destroy it.Their propositions about 23% in restaurants and hotels are showing this.A hotel is making contracts with the travel agencies for 1-2-3-4 even to 10 years.If they know ,and they have made their budget that they have to pay 9 or 13% of vat and sudenly there is 10% more ,isnt this a disaster?How fair is if a country like germany for example has a big share in a competitors tourism sector ,as turkey,to give us orders who are going to destroy greek tourism,the only heavy industry of our country?
    Or why the institutions refused the taxies in the online gambling ?they want only horizontal reductiions in the wages and in the punktion?Do the low wages bring growth?if yes where is the growth of Bulgary then?
    Enough is enough ,we say NO to the Europe of the numbers ,we are human beings not digits and WE WANT THE EUROPE OF THE PEOPLE who Adenauer ,De Gol ,Mitera,Willy Brand and the other great men tried to build.
    Not the europe of the gambler bankers that their marionettes Merkel,Soible ,Daisenbloum and the rest are trying to establish…

    • avatar
      Janis

      No. We will not be next. We were first. Latvia received a bailout, and an IMF restructuring program. Because we had pegged lat to euro, we did internal devaluation (reducing the amount of government employees, reducing salaries for government employees). What happened? Our economy has now re-bounded and we have growth again and have no problem with restructuring our debt on more favorable terms.
      So, if your thirteen salaries and 1000 EUR pensions are ‘being poor’ and ‘suppressed’ then go on, vote NO and see what life under commies really looks like. It’s easy to be a nutty communist on a full stomach.

  40. avatar
    Yüce Ağanoğlu

    No matter what the referendum will be resulted, the economic collapse of Greece is inevitable, it is imposible for Athens to avoid this unwanted result. It is simple mathematics, they are struggling to pay 1.7 billion Euro of debt today, how will they pay 235 bil. Euros in the near future !! Greece is on the urge of downfall.

  41. avatar
    Bastian

    Greece needs to push the reset button.
    The country was lured into the €-zone by illusionary EU-politicians and irresponsible financial market actors (e.g. Goldman Sachs).
    With the €uro Greece is caught in a monetary prison as this currency is not appropriate to its economic situation and culture.
    The belief of the Eurocracy that it can produce growth and prosperity by institutional engineering simply (“reforms”) is increasingly disproved on all levels, not only in Greece.

    Although probably not in the intention of Syriza, but it’s better to make a painful break than draw out the agony.
    There are other EU members (e.g. GB, PL, HU) doing relatively well economically without the €uro.

  42. avatar
    Inês Beato

    They should vote NO. The country needs measures to grow, not severe austerity. It barely worked here either, we have only been spared the same treatment as Greece because we have a right wing government that does everything that is told.

  43. avatar
    Nikolaos Sotirelis

    Referendum is not about yes or no to Europe! Is about yes or no to dignity. Yes or no to austerity. Yes or no to this perverse Europe of banks and markets! It should be and it will be A big NO… not only from Greeks, but from all Europeans!!!

    • avatar
      blugalf

      Except those maybe who are supposed to foot the bill for the greek ‘dignity’ and their new keynesian ‘fcuk austerity’. “Your money, our policy” isn’t going to work, my friend. Want to keep sinking even more money into this black hole? Think that’s going to help? Well good luck, but find yourself another source of money please.

  44. avatar
    Shakeel Sheikh

    Peacefully Progressing Clean and Clear shining bright Saudi Green 1320 Greece and it’s Citizens forever

  45. avatar
    César Gonçalves

    whatever they decide it will have its toll in Europe… If they are TRULY and FULLY informed of the latest terms they will be voting… then they will make the best decision for the nation.

    A NO would almost mean a no to Europe and a no to the EURO.

    YES would be more benefitial for the entire eurozone but it is up to the Greeks to pick their fate

  46. avatar
    Von Braun

    Greece was the birthplace of democracy and it is currently the only democratic country in the EU.

    And by the way, do not confuse EU with Europe:

    EU is just a political organization, that was not even made in Europe but in Washington DC.

    EU represents and serves the Anglo-American axis that was victorious in the WWII and took the entire western a and central Europe landmass under their colonial yoke.

    Its time for Europe to end the WWII. The nation-states of Europe need to get their sovereignties back. ASAP

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      I agree about sovereignty and that there is very little in the way of true democracy in Europe, and so do many Brits. (There is a revival of true democracy under way in Scotland, by the way) But the EU is more of a counterweight to US/UK hegemony than a servant of it.

  47. avatar
    Ivan Burrows

    .

    Who owns the ‘Euro’ ?

    ‘vote “yes” to our proposals and we’ll support you. Vote “no” and you you will kicked out of the euro.’ – European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker

    • avatar
      Smaragda Skordi

      It looks like a blackmale to me, as you describe it…….i wonder………is’nt there a 3nd road?

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Nobody’s going to lend you huge sums of money while you’re slagging them off officially and are trying and bring their house down. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out. Is that person blackmailing you to be their friend?

  48. avatar
    Eleni Anastasiou

    Greeks are given the chance to decide whether to accept the proposal submitted by the European Commission, the Central Bank and the IMF or not. This is very democratic, nonetheless, the Greek population must be clearly informed on what they will be voting for, as well as, the potential consequences of either a ”yes” or a ”no” vote must be stressed. It is apparent that Greece’s creditors show no solidarity to the Greek population. Dozens of pensioners have gathered outside the National Bank of Greece today after hearing they could withdraw pensions from some branches. Hopefully, a fair decision will be made!

    Cyprus is standing by Greece’s side no matter what! Greeks will always survive! Give Greece a chance Europe! Show mercy! #Brotherhood

  49. avatar
    Pirvulescu Florin

    I have a big problem trying to understand anti-EU people expressing their opinions on pro-EU pages.

    It makes no sense for them to waste their energies.

    We have a British crying about an “unelected” so called EU president while ignoring that the member states still have the biggest say in the EU thus accentuating the fact that EU is not yet a federation or an statal actor…yet.

    I bet that said British doesn`t complain that the UK`s House of Lords has Aristocrats and members of the clergy that get their place by not getting voted.

    UK is sovereign state, EU is still a very close association of states that is ruled….by the member states, I know, shocking.

    All in all we can conclude that a British is still in no position to criticize EU.

    About anti-EU/nationalist Greeks do I even have to elaborate ?

    They tend to throw everything on Germany as if Germany is the sole country in the EU even if it`s the most important.

    What EU and the rest of the creditors are asking is a reform of the taxing system so that fraud is lowered, in Greece is endemic.

    Trying to deflect this from the very problems Greece has is immature.

    Greece lied about it`s deficit to get into the Euro.
    Greece allowed tax fraud to run endemic.
    Greece didn`t reform it`s economy and has around half of it`s economy in the hands of the state.
    Greece knew that has around half if it`s income generated by tourism.
    Greece proceed on spending gruesome amount of loaned money.

    And the list can continue.

    Yet they somehow conclude that it`s Germany`s fault and/or that of EU.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      As far as I know, this website is tolerant of all shades of opinion on the EU. The UK is in the EU and so we British have every right to comment and criticise, as much as you do.

      I personally am implacably opposed to the EU, in its ideology and practice, for what I believe are very sound democratic reasons. I am happy to debate with anyone freely on that basis.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      PS Fraud in Romania is endemic too, so be fair to Greece, at least on that basis.

    • avatar
      Vasiliki-Papaioannou

      It was not Greece that lied about its deficit to get into the euro zone. It was the previous government that the EU is so eager to do business with them again. The call for a bailout is not a call for reforms, which the newly elected government was wiling to do with the proposals it submitted in the eurogroup, and they did include a reform in the taxation system that would increase the cease of tax fraud. This is structural issue of the European right winged, lobbist politics but I understand that the convenient truth is to render it to a school yard disagreement. The agreement will not call for reforms leading to a better future but to the economic destruction and stealing the goods. Greek dont think that its the Germany’s fault. But to one empowered to destroy, requesting an increase in the VAT within the vacation period when they know it will be a blow to the greek tourism and benefit the turkish coastal hotels of german interests, that is the german “austerity” that we are dealing with from the politicians. And the list is really vast.

    • avatar
      EU reform- proactive

      The inference of the first two sentences seem to expose the frightening mindset of (the most arrogant) pro EU democrats. The mixed bag of the ~13 non PRO EU & “non conforming” parties (~18%) having ~137/751 seats makes the present EU parliament a (one party) suzerain- by holding an absolute PRO EU majority of 82%. Similar to the many (questionable) democratic one party states around the world.

      Reading the following would place you in Africa: ……….”continues to grapple with corruption, growing social and economic inequalities, and the weakening of state institutions by partisan appointments and one-party dominance,” How would the EU as a “totalitarian democracy” & one-party dominant system and the “freest bloc” on earth compare?

      Only the European Citizens’ Initiative backed by 1 million would come closest. Unfortunately only used for rather insignificant issues like animal welfare etc.
      http://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/welcome

  50. avatar
    G.DANIILIDIS

    Τhe proposals from the creditors are the tombstone of Greece.The real aim is to silence anti-austerity.Every citizen of the world must defend its life and liberty.

  51. avatar
    Raul Machado

    I didn’t elect Donald Tusk to represent me or the others one…. Greek people elected a democratic government to fight for them and everyone is trying to destroy Greece: EC Eurocrats , Banks and more…….

  52. avatar
    Skordi Smaragda

    Yes or No, has a different meaning for everyone of us….for example, i will vote No, in order to oppose to the new measures that Troika wants to impose to us. But, i hope that a decision of No in Greece will not alienate the two opposite sides but will show the lenders that they are making mistake and finally will guide us (all) to a new solution of mutual understanding and fair compromise. For other people, No is a way of “divorcing” from European Union, so that they will choose Yes aiming to stay in E.E. I will vote No, but i will keep my eyes on Europe. No does not mean we are leaving the Union. It means we want better terms and conditions of living.

  53. avatar
    James Campbell

    I am in England and so outside the eurozone. I have always believed that the eurozone was political madness. The Greek people should never have been made to suffer like this, for the sake of an experimental political and economic project.

    I hope that the Greek people vote for the option which makes them leave the eurozone as quickly as possible, so that they can rebuild their economy with their own currency .

  54. avatar
    Panos Skondras

    the institutions offered an outrageous proposal. by no means should it be accepted. NO stands for dignity!

  55. avatar
    Vangelis Mansoudis

    the question is one and is not only for Greece: do you want politcians or bookkeepers to take decisions for your countries???? take care all!

  56. avatar
    Rui Duarte

    Another blattant insight mistake by eurocrats. «Greece» won’t vote because «Greece» does not exist as a voter. Around a bruxelliot table, «states» vote; in the real world, states don’t vote: people vote. each person is «an individual». Trevelyan’s depiction of the battle of Culloden comes to mind. Looks like eurocrats still live and think within a feodal paradigm.

  57. avatar
    Rui Duarte

    Another blattant insight mistake by eurocrats. «Greece» won’t vote because «Greece» does not exist as a voter. Around a bruxelliot table, «states» vote; in the real world, states don’t vote: people vote. each person is «an individual». Trevelyan’s depiction of the battle of Culloden comes to mind. Looks like eurocrats still live and think within a feodal paradigm.

  58. avatar
    Pablo GC

    The right (ND) with EU support smashed Greek economy by faking the accounting. Now they want to make people pay for their errors.

    Banks pay, people live!

  59. avatar
    Pablo GC

    The right (ND) with EU support smashed Greek economy by faking the accounting. Now they want to make people pay for their errors.

    Banks pay, people live!

  60. avatar
    Maria Skylogiannis

    in which other european country 1lt milk costs 1,20 euros? monthly payment 380 euros 10hrs per day? if you are lucky to have a job… ΟΧΙ, ΝΟ, ΝΟΝ…!!!

  61. avatar
    Maria Skylogiannis

    in which other european country 1lt milk costs 1,20 euros? monthly payment 380 euros 10hrs per day? if you are lucky to have a job… ΟΧΙ, ΝΟ, ΝΟΝ…!!!

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Maria, following tomorrow’s default and Euro exit you will not get even 380 euros per month. Has Mr Tsipras told you that?

  62. avatar
    Anna Tsoucalas

    unfortunately we have been terrorized and bombarded by the greek media especially, that chaos will prevail if we vote NO so let’s tell the world now that democracy is dying in the very place it was born Athens. Don’t be surprised if the greeks vote YES. People are in panic……this way we can’t vote with a clear mind…..not when we are under fear of tomorrow. I’m a greek living in Greece.

  63. avatar
    Nikolaos Sotirelis

    The only way to say Yes to Europe … is a BIG NO to subjection, to austerity, to blackmail, to the bureaucrats, lobbyists and bankers!
    NO to this European nightmare… for a new European dream!!!

  64. avatar
    Joao Yohanan

    But good people from Greece, help me with this: i don t understand why the finger is never pointed also to the 2 frikkin families that ruled Greece in the past decades and brought a all population of such a historical country to their knees?

    • avatar
      Vasiliki-Papaioannou

      It is pointed in here. Not abroad though, since these families always did business wirth the European bureaucrats.

  65. avatar
    Yvetta

    Yes to the bail-out, Yes to Europe, Yes to the Euro.

    No to demagogues, No to public opinion manipulators, No to hypocrisy.

    Greece, enjoy the default tomorrow btw.

  66. avatar
    Jose saunders

    I applaud you Greek people, you will be do much better out of th EU, it won’t be any harder than you have it now. I am very proud that your prime minister, is putting the people and his country first. I really pray us British will also leave the EU.

  67. avatar
    Łëø Rąffaelę Dønadeö

    I think there’s one solution and I believe in this !
    United States of Europe and You can put a signature for having them

    Here : http://www.cesue.eu
    (Italian – English – German and other languages available )

    It is a letter written by a group of European economists , federalists and intellectuals!

    I hope You do !

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      A United States of Europe – my worst nightmare!

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      He’s true to his values and mandate – he embodies European democratic values, which are alien to the EU.

  68. avatar
    Nikos

    No,ΟΧΙ,Nein,Νοn,не,Nu,Ei,Nei,Hayır…..

  69. avatar
    Artur Marques

    Greece should vote free of menaces, should vote like free people, but germany never understood that concept right …..

  70. avatar
    Triantafyllos Zervas

    Social media and TV must stop trying manipulate the stupid and the same masses that were voting for 40years now the governments of shame and betrayal. NO means rejection of the new proposals of IMF. Greece WONT and CANT leave nor EU nor Euro, and it wouldnt be beneficial for noone, nor for us, Greeks, but also not for EU,its members/states and the banks/currency itself! NO to fear and manipulation of media, banks and IMF, YES to Democracy and national domination of Greek citizens! Our votes, of all Greeks, on Sunday, wont be about surviving, but about CHOOSING a life…!

  71. avatar
    Mariela

    I am reading about integrity and a lot of unswers no,no,no OK,but this is not the question.As it seems in Greece people doesnt realize and estimate correctly the situation. Why Tsipras said”I advice people to say No!”….and what after that?
    Did he make any analyses how is going to be the life of the people if they rely on their own resources.If Tsipras suggests better life and constructive plan for the next steps after Greece is going to be out of Europe,yes…but he advice people for voting and speaking about integrity without any view or plans what is the next step?

  72. avatar
    Irena Karafilly

    To echo a Pole speaking of an equally difficult period in Polish history: “The choice is between cholera and the plague.”

  73. avatar
    Vasiliki-Papaioannou

    The call for an agreement from the creditors was not a call for structural reforms. The Greek government was willing to do structural reforms that would benefit the country’s future in the euro zone. It was a bandit approach to steal the people’s “silver” , to take hold of the assets and still is. No is a call for resistance. I hope we win.

  74. avatar
    Harry Ampatzides

    NO. you can keep your precious euro.enough is enough ,some Countries that had bank problems are living easily now after 5 years, cause of greeks taxes(taxes of loans-like 1-5 billion euros every couple of months)And the depth didnt reduce even one euro.on the opposite it got bigger. THE STUPID GREEKS have waken and your just about to witness what democracy (the spartan way) means. enjoy…

  75. avatar
    Kokonas George

    The Greeks never lived with other people’s money , as mainly Germans like to say . The Germans , for those who know economic history , have lived many times with the money of others , while the Greeks never did. The Germans had “outstanding debts
    ” many times to their lenders when they certainly couldn’t…. kill them .

    Thats all ,so to restore historical truth . In terms of the current situation , what happens is this: The whole of Europe – and not only Greece – was put by the money lenders in a plan which ” produces ” debt.

    The battle against the Barbarians did not finish … … Europe is still at risk … … and the only hope is the Greeks .

    The Greeks , for reasons that will be revealed in the future , they will find the power supplies , culture and faith and will survive. They will prove once again in their enormous history that they can always WIN. ΕΣΣΕΤΑΙ ΗΜΑΡ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOVatBvGxF4.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      The threat to Europe comes from the nature of the EU. Co-operation among nation-states is essential but the agenda of the EU monolith is the political integration of ancient nations, at breakneck speed. The casualties from this folly are rising.

  76. avatar
    Yvetta

    Have a very Happy Default Day, Greece! I hope you enjoy.

    • avatar
      Vasiliki Papaioannou

      Thank you! I am relieved to have defaulted in the books as well. Cause in real life the default goes way back!

  77. avatar
    Richard Cantal

    Cease! drain not to its dregs the urn
    Of bitter prophecy.
    The world is weary of the past,
    Oh might it die or rest at last!

  78. avatar
    catherine benning

    Reading through this thread creates a sense of utter despair. You mostly condemn Greece, and that means the Greek people, for the ‘creative finance’ they suffered as a result of the EU/US decision to include their country into a union they were not ready to be part of. Have you all lost your memories?

    This cabal massaged Greek accounts in order to cheat the system they had already set up, as they wanted to force Greece to submit or surrender their culture, sovereignty and autonomy to the distruction call the EU. This political disaster of hysteria they claim is ‘good’ for us all yet few if any of us are feeling the good times they promised. As the clawing ideology the politicians are slaves to cannot offer any of us what we aspire to. We are not voting for a US NWO.

    The concept of a United Europe was a natural progression of a common civilisation coming after WW11, until it was taken over by a strange and rampant progression of unelectable dogma. Dogma they dare not voice in the open because secrecy is the only way to keep the grip of power around not only the necks of the Greek people but of us all.

    Did we collectively vote for any one of those who are running this money game we are suffering under? Did we collectively vote for any of the bent politicians that captain the EU ship? Did you vote for Merkel, Juncker or those who are pretending to give us the finance to run it? No. Democracy therefore is dead.

    And yet, Syriza offers democracy on a small scale and you cannot see the wood for the trees. Juncker openly tells us, Greece will never be free to leave the EU. That statement should make you all tremble. Because he means it. Look what they did to the Ukraine. And not one media outlet or newspaper tells you thousands and thousands of Ukrainian people are begging Russia to take them as refugees. All you hear are staged voices of the coup masters telling a pack of half truth and outright lies.

    Well this is what they are telling you all about the Greek bankruptsy. The Greek people are not the instigaters of this treachery, they were forced into this mess in the same way the Ukrainian people were forced into their civil war.

    And the real events taking place are here on this link. Listen carefully and realise this is where we are all going. Greece are the people of Europe who can save us all if they have the courage to fight.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gg3qK_gYkI

    Watch Iceland. And go with your economist instincts. There is life after bankruptcy. And that life is better than the ones you are being offered by the banking cartel.

    I love the idea of a united Europe, however, that does not mean I was or am willing to suffer austerity and deprivation in order to ‘Globalise’ rich mens greed. And then to sit still and listen to their political stooges threatening war on our souls if I or we, collectively, don’t go along with it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH0_JQW–gc

    The European people from one end to the other must have the courage to rid oursleves of this act against us and our civilisation. Follow the peacful and clever people of Iceland.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDexDNn6vSM

    • avatar
      Andrew

      I’m a Greek (currently in Germany) and I have no idea what you mean by “the ‘creative finance’ they suffered as a result of the EU/US decision to include their country into a union they were not ready to be part of”. Greece voted to start the process of entering the EU. The US wasn’t involved in the very least. The ‘creative finance’ didn’t appear out of the blue when Greece joined the EU, it was always there and it has been part of the ‘way of doing business’ in Greece for the last 100 of years (if what my parents are saying is true in the least – starting from little tips and attention give to everyone, doctors, lawyers, etc to do the job you are already paying them to do and ending with government officials who look the other way when you choose a more convenient VAT to pay). A little corruption, tax evasion and a way of life where the government was barely present (and relationship to government limited to total distrust: leave us alone to do our thing!). Nobody cared until they realized the government they didn’t care about loaned money in their name to finance its own inefficiency.

      I don’t see anything wrong or humiliating with (most) of the demands of the creditors.

      The VAT reform is a true must. Even 4 levels seem a bit much, 3 more balance levels would be better while I would definitely see 2 (one regular, one privileged for well-defined strategic products).

      Reform of the public apparatus? Sure, fighting tax evasion (quietly accepted socially) and making the system more efficient is again a must. The state refused to begin this in a step-by-step approach years ago and now they need to do it fast in a way that hurts. Nobody to blame but the state leadership and the voters who accepted this.

      Defense cuts, I think the demands are too much here. 25 to 50% of what was demanded would be ok, we are spending more than we can afford instead of relying on the defense structures we are part of until we can put our house in order.

      Tax increases? It’s good the document was published because I thought the idea was a tax reform with fewer and much bigger taxes, but I see the main point was to increase health insurance contributions from pensioners. 2% is a modicum, it definitely hurts those who rely on meager pensions but they are also those who would benefit the most from having the public health system protected. In case of a default all public institution would be affected and health is the most important.

      Speeding up the sale of privatized airports to auction winners … that’s embarrassing. The EU really needs to tells us to give the people what they bought??

      The only thing that seems to directly hurt the development is giving up on subsidizing fuel for agriculture. That’s a no-go. I would rather overhaul the legislation for subsidies to prevent abuse and fraud, keep protecting the agriculture.

  79. avatar
    Aggelos Mitropoulos

    What if things get better with no? Does Europe know that? Maybe other countries follow us in a year.. Maybe that’s the financial dictators nightmare!

  80. avatar
    Costin Halaicu

    Hosting a referendum on technical proposals is a populist move. Does the Greek government honestly believe that the people will have read the two documents in question? It’s absurd to consider that. Furthermore, let’s say it goes Tsipras’ way; what’s next? Let’s assume Greece leaves the Eurozone, although Tsipras declared today that his government will sue at the ECJ if that actually happens, hinting that they don’t want it either. What’s next after that? Will leaving the Eurozone miraculously create some creditors? Will it miraculously revitalize the Greek economy? I don’t think so. I think that Syriza promised too much during the elections campaign, can’t really deliver on their promises, and now instead of manning up and admitting they might have done just that (which could even be forgiven by the Greek electorate), they turn to populism. It’s a form of cowardice after a fashion. I would vote for Europe.

    • avatar
      ironworker

      Shaking Merkel’s POSITION and set an example for others to follow. That should be enough. What’s Merkel in front of Greece ?

  81. avatar
    Thanos

    Greece will fight. No! to killers like IMF. People of all of the world made so many videos about the ice bucket challenge. It time for people in all of the world to support Greek people with videos saying NO to the referendum, we know what they have done and how the did it. Greece is alive!!!. The only way for people like them to understand how many we are. All we need is justice and democracy. we all are humans. not machines.

    • avatar
      Iorgos

      Killers like IMF?? It’s out 5 VATs and turning a blind eye to tax evasion that are killing us!! We’re killing our own economy in a non-sustainable way for the past 50 years … which is the whole reason we ended up owned by the troika, borrowing to finance …. what exactly? We haven’t been borrowing because we had to after entering the EU, we’ve been borrowing long before that. Entering the EU just made loans cheaper. And we wasted the money financing our protection of tax evasion, corruption and inability to build a sustainable economy that could perform.

  82. avatar
    Leonidas Eleftheriadis

    The problem is that most Greeks believe they are voting on what the currency should be, drachma or euro . If that’s the case then , I believe , it’s best that we should stay in the euro zone. if on the other hand Greece stays in the EU and re-negotiates the terms of the agreement people should vote NO. In no way must the geek people vote according to their patriot sense and compare this No to the one in 1940 which unfortunately they do.

  83. avatar
    Cristina Santos

    If the valuation of the IMF’s SDR depended more on the value of the euro, the UE would not be in this situation. We Europeans have to unite against the value of the IMF’s SDR (USA and Asia)

  84. avatar
    Nando Aidos

    They should vote to get out of the stranglehold that was put on them. If this is best accomplished by voting against the EU proposal, so be it!

  85. avatar
    nando

    They should vote to get out of the stranglehold that was put on them.
    If this is best accomplished by voting against the EU proposal, so be it!

  86. avatar
    Valter Amaral

    No? Yes? Are these Nobel Prizes members of Syriza? Which Europe do we want? A European Community or a Euro something?

  87. avatar
    Antonis Tsesmetzoglou

    1,500,000million people are jobless, 3.000.000million people are almost at the edge of poverty, kids faint from famine, fathers cry in front of their children because they cannot provide them decent life, sons and daughters go abroad to find a better life, Thousands of people decided to take their lives because the banks strangled them economically, a lot of bussinesses closed. all these in 5 years time, with a program that loans as money for 5 years in order to pay the loans.Not for growth as not a single cent have been put away as a surplus.And because of what? Because BANKERS AKA ROTHCHILD are greed and megalomaniac and want to have total control over the people. And because EU goverments think of their countries over other countries. If you want common currency you need also common economic policy. Vat for Germany 19% VAT for Greece 23%, Wages for Germany 1300 lowest,Wages for Greece 450, Rent Germany 400 lowest, Greece 200 Lowest. So what you think YES or NO?

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Wealth accumulates over years, Antoni. In Greece, people have been cheating, stealing from the state, avoiding paying taxes etc over years everyone thinking that one person stealing is not going to make much of a difference… unless the culture there changes, nothing is going to change. If Greece comes out of the EU, it will be because of its own (and I include common Greek citizens when I say this) refusal to reform. This Mr Tsipras is saying the EU is imposing unviable cuts but since he has taken over he has hired his friends/voters to work in public TV stations which he has opened in addition to pre-existing ones, he has closed the banks, which means people cannot trade and therefore will not be paying taxes, businesses have been closing at the fastest rate so far, he has made public transport in Athens free for 1 week, the political and financial instability is keeping investors away and therefore bringing more unemployment, he has given civil servants an extra day’s holiday meaning one extra day of nil productivity in a country that has the most public holidays in the EU, and it goes on and on and on…this is all loss for the Greek state and the people that defend him are his accomplices…He is not doing it by himself.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      In response to Yvetta, whatever underlying economic problems Greece has, they have been considerably worsened by being in the eurozone. There is a clear association in time between the massive contraction in the Greek economy and the requirements imposed by creditors. This is too big to ignore.

      Austerity measure are painful everywhere but people in some countries like England are wealthy enough to absorb them – not everyone, but most. In Greece, austerity measures have been ruinous, because of the rigidity of the eurozone.

      For the EU, the project of political integration must come first. People second.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      James, I agree. However, what I am saying to you is Greece would be poor even without the Eurozone, if not poorer, and people need to start taking responsibility and look at their own actions, culture and way of life. This will only make sense to someone who has actually lived in Greece for a few years. With regards to Mr Tsipras, there is a big, big, big question mark not only over his competence but his priorities as a PM as well. Which seem to be the promotion of his own political party rather than the well-being of Greece and is what his predecessors have done as well: Greece’s debt tripled during the term of Mr Karamanlis because he wanted to make his own party look good in the eyes of the electorate that was not happy with Mr Semitis small-scale austerity measures, which were necessary for Greece to stay in the Eurozone. So the austerity measures are now non-viable. If Greece wanted to leave the Eurozone, there is the process to do that. But here we don’t have that. We have an act of suicide and inability to stay in the Eurozone not lack of will. As someone below has very well put it: the ship is sinking and the captain has called a meeting 2 days away to ask his crew which direction the ship should be steered in. He is better off jumping ship rather than taking everyone to the bottom of the sea with him.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      Ok – I can’t say how Greece would have been without the eurozone. What I can say with strong certainty is that the ideological commitment to the eurozone project by EU leaders is greater than its commitment to any European citizen. They have put ideology before people. Any government with a history of doing that causes a lot of damage.

    • avatar
      George

      See how Antoni has not come back to refute my post, James…, if you know what I mean…

    • avatar
      George

      Sorry, this is Yvetta. I don’t know what’s happening.

  88. avatar
    Ioanna Geor

    yes or no, this referendum will have a great impact on how my country will move forward. What scares me is not the ” YES” or ” NO” answer, it’s the posibility of a 50-50 outcome..

  89. avatar
    Mike Oxlittle

    The time has come to be realistic,this referendum is irrelevant,we’re talking about a country with a 180% Debt to GDP,25% unemployment and it owes its creditors about 240 billion euros.This is a debt that no serious economist believes can ever be repaid,it’s the sort of statistics you associate with some failed African dictatorship.So do as the Africans do in this situation,default on all the debts and have the military remove the corrupt and incompetent civilian government.I’m serious you’ll need them when the food and fuel riots start.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Couldn’t have put it better, Nicholas!

  90. avatar
    Barb Maria

    Those who encourage Greeks to to vote No -specially in Europe- are those who have to gain a lot !! Yes is the only reasonable answer !!!

    • avatar
      nik

      ai mori

  91. avatar
    Joan Gianop

    the last six years we were living with the “yes”..and brought a lot of misery and poverty in my country! i dont blame anyone because none of the governments that where on the last 40 and many years more,did nothing for my country,and when i say nohing i mean that industries were closing, salary was dicreasing more n more each year! im almost thirty i do work i do earn money,but you know how i survive with my 600 € salary? i still live with my parents, i dont pay rent because i cannot afford it,so i dont pay electricity,heating and everything needed to have a house on your own! i do drink a lot instead hahah but alcoholism is not the right way and doesnt solve anything..i travel because i have european friends that made them through my studies abroad.. and i try to be calm because life is short and unfair because i do know that a lot of greek citizens dont live like i do..they dont have even the halph of what i have! so for me..for them.. lets make sth different..it might be worst..we dont know it! lets pretend that it would be better! i believe in that! i believe in us!! we have to stop with all the scenarios of catastrophy! enough!! basta!! αρκετά!!! ΝΟ!!! ΌΧΙ!!!!

  92. avatar
    klassen

    The referendum has already been lost! The greek govt didnt stand a chance.
    Most media in western europe and greece is owned by the same people whom run the banks and 99.9% of eu govts. Its pissin against the wind folks. The head europhiles own the media, our banks , our hospitals , everything, even our armies.. WE ALL , all of us in europe are in debt to the same banking cartels and we will end up as low wage slaves. None of us can pay these cartels back and we will all eventually fold.. Look at the USA, they have more than 100% debt to gdp, they are also slaves to the cartels.. or idiots.
    All of us are stuck in the same pyramid scam, and until more light is shed on the way money is created were stuck in the same boat , some a little dryer than others , for now!
    I feel for the people of greece and i hope tspiras doesnt dance to the whims of merkel and her bankster buddies.
    Dont forget , all of europe is in the same boat, its just that banksters in the rest of europe havnt crowed yet, but they will and thats when the fun starts..or has it already started?

    • avatar
      ironworker

      Good point taken. Did yow follow Merkel’s “tactic” ? She stood quiet for several days, and suddenly when she thought Tsipras is about to give up, she jumped in front of cameras calming victory and defeat for Tsipras. She was hoping for a no referendum. LOL She is such an evil Hydra.

  93. avatar
    Ariste Arvanitides

    Absolutely NO, NEIN, OXI, because it appears that the Europeans have changed the rules. The European Constitution seems to apply to others, but not to Greece. Greece is being raped, pillaged and plundered by a handful of technocrats that have their heads stuck in the mud. They can not think their way out of a paper bag, but they spend hard-earned European citizens money to bath in luxury, spend for themselves endlessly, and ruin the economies of the Mediterranean. They stoop to overturning governments, or politicians when it does not suit them, and they are all talk, eat, travel = no results. They are a cancer on the living organism of the European Union and their behavior to Cyprus and Greece will crash the system — then they can go home. We are fed up with them, and wish for them to live the lives they have imposed on the Cypriots and Greeks. Just a sidenote. Greece has always fought at the side of the Western powers (even against Germany), who are now ganging up on Greece and the Greeks to drink the last drops of life out of the population. SHAME ON THEM!!! They are not worth it. I and everyone I know is voting NO, HELL NO, and F@@@ NO! When the markets crash due to a 200 trillion bubble that the creditors created all over the world, it will be their own greed that brought them to it.

  94. avatar
    George

    The Council of Europe has said that the Tsipras referendum does not follow European standards and it will not be observed by international observers. You make up your mind why he has not invited them. He also has his 2-3 TV Channels (opened by himself in the little time that he has been a PM) blasting blatant lies about the EU, hiding his own responsibility and is trying to appeal to the poor Greek people’s emotion and the hardship that they have been through. It is also being reported in the international media that every bail-out proposal he submits actually makes more demands than the previous one and nobody in Greece is aware exactly what points his major disagreement is on. It all looks like a Putinesque performance without there ever having been any intention to reach an agreement with the creditors but to con the Greek public out of the EU. See where this little Putinesque adventure ends.

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      @ George:

      What you really mean is, the EU and its allies have not has a chance to set up a rigged ballot. It was sprung on them too quickly.

      Tsipras has made it very clear what Europe is offering the Greek people and that is more of the same they have suffered since 2008. What is difficult in that understanding.

      Why are you not telling us Europeans that every Euro Greeks gets from the ECB/IMF etc., does not go to the aid of their people or their economic survival, it goes to pay off the debts the same banks are giving them. In other words it goes out of one account and right bank into another. And as a result nothing will and can change in Greece unless and until the people have the courage to stand up on their hind legs and get off of their knees begging.

      Those who don’t want this are the ones who ionvolved in this robbery.

    • avatar
      George

      Hi Catherine, can you provide us with specific evidence that the EU and its allies have rigged elections anywhere. If not, I will just ignore your comment as libel. Tsipras has NOT made the specifics of the referendum clear and is lying through his teeth that a no to the bail-out is a negotiating tool. You can see this by reading Greek websites or even visiting his own page on Facebook. Actually, without the bail-out Greece is going to be out of the Eurozone and out of the EU, something that has been made clear by the EU but also makes common sense. He has actually never had the slightest intention of reaching an agreement to secure funds for the country, as every supposed proposal he has made has included more demands than the previous one. It is common sense that compromise can’t be reached that way. You also say that all of the bail-out money goes to the borrowers. Well, so why was this money borrowed to start with? What was it spent on? Anyone who has lived in Greece knows the answer. Without the bail-out, the Greek state actually has no money and is unable to pay pensions and meet its other obligations. So, you have got your facts wrong, I am afraid. BTW, are you also saying that the Council of Europe is wrong and that standard democratic proceedings mean nothing to you? You should move to Russia, then Catherine. The Greeks have fought hard for democracy and they do not need a Putin-style regime.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      The EU are also masters of propaganda, disseminating pro-EU teaching material to schools. The EU are also wont to force countries to hold a second referendum if the first one produces the “wrong” outcome. Pot calling kettle black, I think.

    • avatar
      George

      A very honest post by you, James: “I think” not what you know or have proof of. So let’s leave it at that…

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      Not sure if you are being ironic. If you’re accusing me of posting stuff that’s not true, then please say and I’ll supply references.

    • avatar
      George

      Hi Catherine, I have watched your videos that are supposed to prove electoral fraud committed by the EU but didn’t see anything like it in them. I was referring to specific evidence about your allegations that could be taken seriously in a court for example. But your videos are just people giving their opinions about the financial situation in Greece (nothing to do with elections) and the first one of them has somebody saying that somebody from Russia (Georgiy Feodorov?) that does not appear in the video said that the ballots in Scotland were left unsecured. Neither here nor there nor even any evidence that the persons mentioned in the video actually do exist. It looks like people like to come here on this debate to post their hatred or frustration against the EU or some other target perhaps motivated and charged emotionally by conspiracy theories and populist views that go round out there but without any facts. I suppose populism and conspiracy theories are a bit like a religion: based on faith, people want to believe and are happy to believe based on hearsay. I don’t have time for this kind of thing. ..

    • avatar
      George

      Hi James, I am not sure where you see the irony. Yes, I would be interested in seeing cases where the EU has rigged elections. But only quality stuff please, because what Catherine has posted has been irrelevant and random.

  95. avatar
    Hakan Ürem

    The bailout Greek referendum (#Greferendum) is just the latest of a long list of “tactic tricks”. They will not pay debt back….

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      Hi George:

      Russia is for Russians not for Brits. Your point of rigged ballots, with the knowledge and encouragement of the EU, is common knowledge. Ireland, the Scottish on Westminster rule, when they had not voted for such conditions in decades. Here is a little reminder of that scenario.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7oeWCGP6Fk

      Ireland had to vote twice in fifteen months. With the little country being bombarded with foreigners to tell them which way they had to go. There is more ways of rigging a vote than fingering ballot papers. The money poured into this vote came in from ‘outside’ Ireland via the EU and low and behold, the goog old USA. Funny that. Especially as the US are well steeped in how to rig a ballot box. By the way I have put this up here for a very long time. So this is nothing new for those who visit regularly.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs

      Greece would be far better off out of the Euro and out of Europe. Why? Because you cannot change a path of destruction by continually following the same plan that has not worked year after year after year.

      Now, to how the Greek people were duped by the money men into joining Europe, by the creative financing of the banking regime and their political allies.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tnmkkLo1mE

      And Part 2

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H03ZlgLEyDo

      And listen and watch this link carefully. It explains in common speak how it took place. Remembering as you watch, that the Greek people, the average ordinary man and woman in the street had nothing to do with these underhand and secret deals. Yet, they are the ones being blamed and forced by the EU and their banker pals to pay through the nose and suffer for the duplicity of these financiers making the billions as they go. If only the Greek people realised it, they would be aware how they have the only solid leader of us all to remove them from this fraud. We all need a Tsipras. Every single state in the union. The truth is as clear as the nose on your face, Porgy boy.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84j6DzzzyK8

      And guess what, Putin had nothing to do with it. Russia wouldn’t play the game it was expected to, which is why we see the art of war acting out in the Ukraine as it is. Chaos always helps the rich man.

      Socialism built Israel, it took it from a desert drought to the nuclear power it is today, via the Kibbutz. So, it can do it for Greece, just the way Roosevelt used it to take the yanks out fo their financial collapse in his day. Don’t scoff at socialism. It saved the banks didn’t it. Bail outs from the social funds of us all. Welfare for the banking sector to the tune of billions from the Tax payers trust.

      Don’t play the ‘ignorance’ game with me, it will back fire on you.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Agree with this comment. The situation is also dangerous for the people though.

  96. avatar
    James Campbell

    I don’t know much about Greece but I read a lot about the high level of Greek education. All the Greek people I have come across in the UK have been highly educated. I would expect a high educational level to be a good foundation for a successful economy. Could a Greek person explain to me why this has not been the case for Greece in recent years? Wishing you well.

  97. avatar
    Ivan Burrows

    .

    It does not matter, all Schulz and Juncker want is for their puppet government to be installed in Greece.

    Democracy in Europe is dead, All Hail the EU.

    If they do leave then the irreversible currency becomes the temporary currency & all bets are off.

    So who next if Greece is kicked out of the ‘irreversible’ Euro …. Italy, Spain or Portugal ?

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/grexit-william-hill-stopped-taking-bets-on-greece-leaving-the-eurozone-2015-6

    • avatar
      Dean Plassaras

      Don’t tell us what to do. You just follow our lead and learn.

  98. avatar
    acmesseder@yahoo.com

    A clear NO, of course!!!

  99. avatar
    João Adrião

    No. No, to radicalism of PPE. But not to leave €, just for social-democrat policys that in our days, crazyously, are in syrizas’s side

  100. avatar
    Ivan Burrows

    .

    I wonder if the EU will use the standard European Model and make the Greeks vote again & again & again &……. until they get the ‘correct’ answer ?

  101. avatar
    Dean Plassaras

    An irrevocable and profound NO!

  102. avatar
    Dean Plassaras

    NO in the most uncertain way!

  103. avatar
    Joey Stack

    This is probably one of the biggest single decisions in Greek history! Reclaim your pride and sovereignty, you brilliant nation of people. Vote no, you are more than capable of sorting the problem out yourself without the IMF’s derisory and insulting offer, or their constant interference in your everyday finances; leave the surpzone, leave the EU, and show the rest of Britain how we should follow suit :)

  104. avatar
    Jude De Froissard

    It is undemocratic to say and to influence with threats and reprisals what people should vote. The troika distorts the purpose of the referendum. They use financial terrorism and economical dictatorship in order to have the government they want. I am sure Greece is the first big country among the list of others to come.Austerity destroys respect and trust for any institution because it is applied to the citizens and not to those who are responsible for the mess.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      No, means you don’t want them to bargain any more, Alexander. Is there no common sense in Greece?

  105. avatar
    Luis Casimiro

    Its not something for anyone to deal with besides the Greeks. Please just hope that they get out of this with dignity and hope for their immediate future.

  106. avatar
    maria britzolaki

    I believe we should vote NO in the refeendum. A NO that means we want to be part of Europe, but a different Europe that is based on democracy and justice for all the people. We are all Europeans and we are all equals.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      A Europe that gives free rides, perhaps?

  107. avatar
    Armand Koca

    :( :( :( Revelation 13. 16 – 18. …Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666…:( :( :(

  108. avatar
    Salvatore Blasi

    Yes! This kind of decisions can not been taken by a referendum. Better a discussion in parliament. Tsipras left populist

  109. avatar
    Harris Manteniotes

    Τhey gave an important financial – economics type of decision, to the hands of farmers, builders, old people, people that they dont have a clue about economics, currency etc ..a referendum its ok , a demokratic procedure ok! but to such an issue, such as economics???!!! wtf?? their only intention has been from the start to avoid admitting failure in negotiations with Europe..and give the responsibility, to someone else..

  110. avatar
    Harris Manteniotes

    Greece should pay its debt, (ofcourse there is a responsibility in Europe, because when the other side is borrowing money to survive as a nation, u cannot ask them to buy, airplanes, submarines, trains etc…) But mostly HUGE AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITY LIES to current and previous governments, because they were giving benefits (appart from the stolen money to themselves), to their political party’s armies of CLIENT – VOTERS…

  111. avatar
    Γεώργιος Δανιηλίδης

    No matter what they will vote Greek Eu ,ECB,EC UNELECTED EMOTIONLESS leadership they will do whatever they want with at least 90% consent of Greek elite of any name left,right,sosialistt etc.

  112. avatar
    Yulia Amariei

    What an arrogant un”democratic” question to start with… But so are the whole world’s decissions, so nothing new. Nothing surprises me, anymore, really… It’s gonna go the way they planned it and nothing will go stop them (the few, you know them and they know who they are). This kind of questions aren’t else than observetions in how far we(the sheeps) are awaken.So…try to be wise in acumulating your knowleadge and making your decissions.

  113. avatar
    petros

    Dear European Citizen.

    I am a Greek young man , not very young but I feel young , and I would like to

    Thank you for helping us for so many years . Thank you for lending us 300 billion Euro some years ago and thank you for continuing keep our economy alive by lending us extra 100 bns euro through ELA .
    Thanks to the European Union Greece received last 20 years some hundred Billions as non returnable subsidies .
    Dear European citizen it was not your fault that these money did not go to a proper way . It was my fault. Because I elected the people who did not safeguarded these billions of EURO .
    Dear European Citizen ,
    Thanks to Euro Currency we left DRACHMA and we stopped paying from 25 % to 33 % interest rate (in overdue loan ) . We started paying 5-6 % interest in Euro .
    For first time we face the possibility to sell without custom barriers and currency converting cost to a huge marker of 300 million people . It was not your fault that we did not succeed . It was our fault to lose this opportunity . It was our fault that we did not succeed to change the idea of our people that private business produce wealth . It was our fault that we did not change the bureaucratic rules that still Exist and destroy every possibility to the private business to Produce Wealth for our People .
    Dear European Citizen It was not your Fault that the dream of most young people was to be a Worker for the Government or for state Companies where the salary was big but you did not have to work hard or in many cases at all .

    Dear European Citizen it was not your Fault when the reserves of the Pension Funds were dramatically decreased because of unbelievable bad management the last 40 years and there are not enough money today for elderly people to receive their pensions . It was our fault to allow our government to continue these catastrophic policies .

    Dear European Citizen it was not your Fault that a Police officer retired at 45 receiving a Pension of 2500 Euro . It was my fault to allowing it .

    It was my fault that the daughter of a Military officer who never got married continue to receive the pension of his father until she dies .

    Dear European Citizen it was my fault to allow the Looting of my country by political Gangs . it was my fault that I did not have the strength to act and send to Prison or even to moral obsolence the group of people that do all these things to our country .

    Dear European Citizen you are not responsible for the bad situation in Greece . You are not a loan shark as many people in my country call you .

    HELP ME to do all the necessary reforms in my Country in order to make Greece a place where a private company can work freely productive and unbiased . If we can work we can produce wealth and our Government will receive tax and repay our loans .
    Then we will win again our pride our Dignity our Self respect .

    In the Referendum I am going to vote ‘’ YES ‘’ . Because I want to stay in Europe . Because I want to fight with all Greeks and other European people for a better future for me for my children and my grand children .

  114. avatar
    Aristi Arvanitides

    GREECE needs a reset. Loan upon loan to repay debt upon debt has no future. The vote of NO goes to no more loans that are not repayable, no more austerity and actually a fair and equitable solution that will jump start production. There is no future as the IMF admitted to this package. It does not work.

  115. avatar
    Evangelos Koumentakos

    I vote yes for implementation of measures that will target nepotism and corruption and no to the same content with another package.
    The Europe should be ashamed for what is doing and no the bad surprises should be well expected for politicians, as Herman Van Rompoy said last summer at the even in Brx with Mr. Moscovici and Mr Soros.

  116. avatar
    NOTH BILL

    NO CERTAINLY NO !!!!!!!!
    The countries that have permitted the banking sector to create money out of nothing have been subjected to pro-cyclical booms and busts, making millions unemployed and wiping out years of growth. For the following reasons, there is virtually no point in replicating a system that history has shown does not work:
    http://bit.ly/1dAerp4

  117. avatar
    Petko Ivanov Prodanov

    ОК who give them so much credit?why now Tsipras government must be guilty of this result? It is pity that today is all about deal!

  118. avatar
    Maria Helena Neto

    GREEKS SHOULD VOTE NO AS THEY HAVE THE OPORTUNITY TO DO IT. They represent our will for a new Europe free of burocrats that nobody elected and have now the Power to dicide on our lifes. Please vote NO. NÃO. NEIN. NON. OXI.

  119. avatar
    ironworker

    Keep an eye on Greece Supreme (Constitutional) Court. If the referendum result is NO, they (politically appointed judges backed by Berlin/Bruxelles) are prepared to rule the plebiscite “unconstitutional”. It happened before in Romania, they turn back the vote of 8.3 million people like nothing. I hope the greeks will not fall for this trick as romanians did in 2012. OXI !

  120. avatar
    ironworker

    If Greece will fall, the whole Europe will fall. It’s not abut money anymore it’s about the last standing democratic nation under siege.

  121. avatar
    Kossack Nikko

    to qiuote the GREATEST LEADER EUROPE HAD Churchill You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival.—- the answer in NO NO NO NO NO!

  122. avatar
    Gent Sinani

    Peoples in Greece have to abandon massively the referendum and to ask what has happen with 300 billion euros… this is the real question. What is the government doing against the financial fraud in Greece that is estimated more than 300 billion euros… is this just an accident that the financial fraud is nearly equal to the debt????

  123. avatar
    Kossack Nikko

    Never forget what a JUNKER was 70 years Little has changed people across EUROPE never forget what the JUNKERS did to your countries they are doing the same to Greece They have done it to Italy Spain (they dir during the Franco time) they did it the JUNKER were the heart of the blitzkrieg Million of people died for freedom the EU the NEW IVREICH is trying to subjugate the people of Europe… in the word of the greatest leader ,,,,,, You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs—Victory in spite of all terror—Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival. GREECE NO NO NO NO is the vote NO is the answer to the EU… you will be know rewarded wit another quote “Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.” from the MAN himself ” YOU PEOPLE DEFINED teh word democracy YOU few people again will define the future against the IVREICH#

    • avatar
      Ingemar Grahn

      I rather prefer the German version with Bundesländer.

  124. avatar
    Rich Barham

    I fervently hope the Greeks show us the way forward. UK will be next, then Austria and then the whole damn house of cards will fall and put an end to the stinking incompetence and corruption of the EU. Your plans to federalise Europe will finally be consigned to the dustbins of history- only to be discussed in school history lessons as an example of how to truly screw up once proud and successful nations.
    Stay brave Greece, we are all behind you. Don’t let these bullying bastards win

  125. avatar
    Erik Brunar

    If it’s No, Merkel-Schaeuble will still find a way back to the table, I don’t think they are willing to let Greece leave the euro yet, too afraid of the consequences.

  126. avatar
    Erik Brunar

    An outright Yes would in the best case be: Tsipras replaced by the next, younger, even more brilliant young mayor, and the needed real reforms begin and in exchange, the ECB can execute a significant inflection in its monetary policy. Perhaps ECB subsidies to help Greeks transfer their pension and health-insurance accounts to other states in the Union in a new open market for health and pension insurance?

  127. avatar
    Ingemar Grahn

    Well yes to settle the creditors but they are were unfair to Greece. Théy should not force anything up on Greece that they are not doing to their own country.

  128. avatar
    Erik Brunar

    Also personally I am fond of the EU. Ashamed of what Germans and Austrians and everybody else was still doing up to the middle of last century, excited about prosperous, post-national peace, continent-wide. I don’t think the EU is any more corrupt than your average, not-very-corrupt government. Competence becomes an issue now and then, I’m sure, just like in many large companies. Is the bureaucracy terrible? I don’t feel I’ve ever personally been affected by European bureaucracy except when the EU has stepped in and made some national bureaucratic bullshit easier by harmonizing it across countries or by not requiring duplicate filings. I’m sure if you are a certain type of business there might be more bureaucracy, but my floor guy, German-German all the way, he is incorporated in London, UK, and it looked very much to me like an EU-enabled choice for a bureaucratically less-demanding jurisdiction. Do you remember how hard it was to transfer money from France to Germany? Do you remember your cellphone operator charging you over a euro for text messages to a neighboring EU country? My life is better for the fact that an EU framework provided banking providers with incentives to build out and simplify their international payment services. Marginally better also for the EU ruling imposing the 13-cent maximum on text messages within Europe. It’s a lot of stuff even more obscure than this that is not worth trashing without really honestly answering the question: What have you got in mind that’s better? A New Tory UK re-introducing the death penalty?

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      European co-operation is essential. But allowing an supranational government to transfer sovereignty by stealth from nation-states has no democratic mandate.

      If the peoples of each European nation want a united states of Europe, then I’ll accept that. I don’t think they do, but that’s what they are getting, bit by bit, whether they like it or not.

  129. avatar
    Pavlos Papathanasiou

    Enough with your polls and threats! Greeks voted tonight! Athens streets were full of NO #OXI supporters, while the corrupted yes supporters of the parties who destroyed Greece were humiliated in an embarassing small rally! Greeks vote for #OXI! People across Europe demonstrate for #OXI too. Have you seen any peoples rallies for yes?

  130. avatar
    Giorgos

    All your article describes the terror. Terror for the future. Our lives are allready full of teror the last years of austerity. We are not afraid. We vote NO for the democracy, for the human rights, for a better future. It’s clearly simple. We have a democracy and not marketocracy. As for our “friend’ Soible, Leonidas answer for us before thousands of years: ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

  131. avatar
    φωτεινή κάππα

    They should speak their mind and explain what was wrong with the programs so far, and what really makes their lives difficult and hinders their economic activity. The Eu has to give them a chance and understand that austerity policies just limit the potential of the people of Europe.

  132. avatar
    CastorPollux

    An Oversimplified and Dramatized View of the Greek Debt Crisis

    German: Hi Sir, We wanted to let you know that you owe a large amount of money and it needs to be paid back.
    Greek: Hi, umm Who are you, who is we? I don’t even have a credit card or any loans how do I owe you money?
    German: Well your government has borrowed huge sums of money.
    Greek: …and, they can’t pay it back?
    German: Nope.
    Greek: Well, OK. We voted for them… so we will all need to do our part. Is there a payment plan?
    German: There was but your current government is inept and trying to renegotiate.
    Greek: The government that borrowed money in amounts that we could never hope to pay back… was not inept? The ones that are not intimidated by you and trying to renegotiate are?
    German: Nope and yep.
    Greek: …and you, who gave money in a manner that has no chance of being repaid…. not inept?
    German: You are being unreasonable sir. We are trying to help.
    Greek: Ok, Ok. I’m ready to tighten my belt, we all have to do our part. What do we need to do?
    German: Well, taxes are going up.
    Greek: OK, how much?
    German: About 10 to 20 times higher, maybe more.
    Greek: WHAT?!
    German: Sir, calm down. You said that you would do your part. We are trying to help.
    Greek: It’s just that I am retired and I have no idea how I will pay these higher taxes on my small pension.
    German: Well, about that sir. We are also going to have to cut your pension. I just want to take this moment to say that I think you have a beautiful country. The best beaches and I just love visiting the ancient sites.
    Greek: What!? How much are you cutting my pension and when?! Please take your damn coke can off the statue of Athena, thanks.
    German: Sir, you are becoming hostile again. Please calm down, we are trying to help you. You misunderstand, starting immediately your pension is cut to zero. It does not make sense for your government to keep paying it, it is just how it has to be.
    Greek: How am I going to live? I have a family, children! What am i supposed to do.
    German: Sir, you are obviously going to have to go and find a job. We suggest that your wife and children also find one as you will not be able to support yourself on a single minimum wage salary.
    Greek: I think I’m getting light headed. Well, you said you are here to help. Does the plan create more jobs? Do you have work for me?
    German: Sorry, sir. Greece has a very high unemployment rate there is nothing we can do about that. You don’t seem to understand, you owe a large amount of money.
    Greek: I get it, you have said that already and I’m trying to be cooperative but this does not make sense.
    German: Yes, we do not expect commoners like yourself to understand the complexities of financial policy. Let your government deal with that.
    Greek: What? What did you just say to me? F-U!
    German: Sir, did you just call me fuhrer, there is no need for anti German remarks. Please just stay calm.
    Greek: I didn’t make any anti German remarks! But you just burned me… stick a fork in me I’m done!
    German: Sir, the Germans have not and will not put you or any others in an oven and cook you. Please stop with these anti German remarks and stay calm. I’m sure you can work something out to pay us what you owe.
    Greek: What are you talking about?! Ok, Ok, since I’m retired I have some chickens in the backyard.. I guess… I guess I can sell the eggs and pay you back slowly.
    German: You are funny sir. You owe us a lot more than some chicken eggs. We have already taken your chickens, slaughtered them and sold them to pay down your debt.
    Greek: But how can I ever pay you back now? How much of the debt have the chickens paid down?
    German: You misunderstand sir, It paid a portion of this months interest payment not the debt itself. You will owe us more next month and we will need to give you additional loans to pay that back.
    Greek: This is insane. How does this make sense to anyone?
    German: Like I said, we are here to help. I can offer you some money for your beautiful property. That should get you by for a few months.
    Greek: My property? A few months? Is Germany trying to buy my country one parcel at a time?
    German: Sir dont be ridiculous you just dont understand the financial complexity here. Your government borrowed large sums of money and it just needs to be paid back.
    Greek: OK, I have another idea. Like you said earlier we have great ancient sites in Greece. We can use the money from visitors to pay back the loans.
    German: Well, we don’t expect tourists to visit because of the higher taxes besides why would people come here when a large amount of the sculptures and art work is at museums around the world?
    Greek: You are right! The art work that is in museums all over Europe that will save us! We should bring it back to Greece!
    German: You don’t understand, that needs to stay where it is for safe keeping.
    Greek: Safe keeping? It belongs to Greece.
    German: Not anymore.
    Greek: Do we at least get a percent of the profit it brings these countries in tourism?
    German: You don’t understand how this works sir.
    Greek: OK, I think we need to re-negotiate…
    German: That’s not possible.
    Greek: Here is my offer… you get your ass off of the 2,000 year old column that you are sitting on, pick up your damn soda can off the sculpture of Athena, get back into your VW and exit my border.
    German: Sir!
    Greek: Did my grandfather kill your grandfather during WWII, is that why you are insane?!
    German: Sir!
    Greek: I’m going to gather my family and get into my tower over there with our shotguns. When you come back with your new offer please bring a loud speaker so I can hear what you have to say as you are coming because I start shooting when I see you.
    German: Ok sir, let me see what I can do. I will make sure my offer is a good one and shout it loud as I come so you don’t shoot.
    Greek: Sorry sir, you do not understand the complexities of Greek rural life. You repeatedly dismissed me and my country. I’m done listening to what you have to say. The loudspeaker is so that I can hear you coming. I am retired and old, my eyesight is not what it used to be. I’d like to know your coming so I can get my aim steady.

  133. avatar
    Roger Edward Deshon

    Let’s hear it for good old fashioned nationalism. Greece and the rest of Europe should ditch the Euro and go back to their own currencies because this modern idea of CIVIS ROMANVS SVM does not work. Frontiers and Passports should be re-introduced, which would, in the first instance, stop the flood of humanity washing up in Europe from Africa.

    • avatar
      George

      No, to Tsipras’ brainwashing.

  134. avatar
    Dino Boy Mican

    Harris Lampridis greek figures are never correct. Long hours because too many Greeks own shops and they just sit long hours. Many are freelance small time businessmen. It’s imposs to calculate work time. Last but not least it’s state services employees who supplemented low wages with overtime that never really takes place. Millions of hours of it. It’s official and ok to put overtime that is simply never done.

  135. avatar
    Alex Borg

    Big dilemma. It’s game theory at its best. People who fear worse economic consequences if the No vote wins, will be inclined to vote Yes. But this will vindicate the hawkish group of EU leaders and the IMF. Arguably a No victory will seriously shake the foundations of the EU as a currency which these same hawks cannot afford as it will represent a defeat of their policy of austerity. They will therefore be compelled to renegotiate a more humane package for Greece, and perhaps put a stop to austerity. So where lies the truth? Who is calling who’s bluff?

  136. avatar
    Janusz Martynek

    Můžete ohrozit řeckou ekonomika která vám roste tak volte ANO/NAI a budete mít klidně spání že vám porostou i příjmy do rozpočtu teto krajiny .

  137. avatar
    Alvise Dal Ri

    It is about time someone took a stand against the antidemocratic neoliberal policies. No for both Greeks and Europeans

    • avatar
      George

      So why don’t you yourself take a stand Alvise and pay for it out of your own bank account and put your own mental health, sanity and freedom on the line. I want a normal life. Thanks.

  138. avatar
    Georgia Papageorgiou

    The referendum was never the right decision. The Prime Minister have said that before he take his current position and he had explained the reasons why. The question is not clear on purpose and the people are so frustrating that they not listen anything. We are split in half and that is something we will not easily recover from. I will respect the result, whatever that might be, i cannot say the same for the rest.I never lost my pride, and sadly I know that from socioeconomic point of view we jumped back 5 years and the sacrifices that we made were all lost.

  139. avatar
    Nikolaos Sotirelis

    Stop lying!!! The referendum has nothing to do with yes or no to Eurozone.
    The questions are about yes or no to: 1) the “final” proposal of the institutions 2) a false report about the sustainability of the debt!
    And the stakes here is YES or NO to austerity. Yes or no to the right to a decent life. Yes or no to sustainability of a nation.Yes or no to hope and democracy not only in Greece, but all over Europe!!!

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      If you vote No, you get no bail-out and you are out of the Eurozone, Nikolaos. That is the whole point. But Mr Tsipras is withholding that information from you, or is lying through his teeth. Don’t forget, his referendum does not meet international democratic standards, according to the Council of Europe: this is one of the reasons why, it does not explain the implications. The situation in Greece at the moment is one of a dictatorial regime: no access to your own money, banks indefinitely closed, impossible to find certain kind of medication, tourists cancelling their holiday, a PM that makes public addresses every day through TV channels opened by himself and employing his own party’s voters, reporters are complaining that they are not allowed to report on the topic, so freedom of speech is being curbed as well, etc. The referendum is a failure whatever result it brings, only because it is happening and democracy is not what you have in Greece. Matters of how the state is run are not subject to a referendum but the PM’s job to do. He has failed to finance the Greek state and has no further solution.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      If you vote No, you get no bail-out and you are out of the Eurozone, Nikolaos. That is the whole point. But Mr Tsipras is withholding that information from you, or is lying through his teeth. Don’t forget, his referendum does not meet international democratic standards, according to the Council of Europe: this is one of the reasons why, it does not explain the implications. The situation in Greece at the moment is one of a dictatorial regime: no access to your own money, banks indefinitely closed, impossible to find certain kind of medication, tourists cancelling their holiday, a PM that makes public addresses every day through TV channels opened by himself and employing his own party’s voters, reporters are complaining that they are not allowed to report on the topic, so freedom of speech is being curbed as well, etc. The referendum is a failure whatever result it brings, only because it is happening and democracy is not what you have in Greece. Matters of how the state is run are not subject to a referendum but the PM’s job to do. He has failed to finance the Greek state which is being shut down and has no further solution but is employing delaying tactics.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      He doesn’t want to admit his failure and resign. That is the problem. The money is too good and all his friends have a job now thanks to him…You wouldn’t give it up if you were him, would you?

  140. avatar
    Theodoros Kondakos

    Yes means even more austerity and will be the last act in the death of our economy and democracy, and for what? A German EU? No I am sorry I won’t get that. I will vote no and take my chances to exit the Euro and get bankrupt. I prefair to kill my self than get raped by Eu for something I have no responsibility. I never stole 1 euro I never voted for the corrpupt governments. I am 28 and I feel like I have nothing to hope for, nothing to lose.

  141. avatar
    Kostas Fotiadis

    Our answer is NO fear to the fear they try to implemment with financial terrorism by ending liquidity, yes to a solident and democratic Europe but a great NO to this new banking dictactorship in the EU! This is the country where democracy was born and the only yes is yes to DEMOCRACY!!! ΌΧΙ ΣΤΗ ΧΟΥΝΤΑ ΤΩΝ ΤΡΑΠΕΖΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΥ ΔΝΤ!!!!!!!!

  142. avatar
    adamski

    I cant believe i am watching capitalism crumbling before our very eyes in my lifetime.

  143. avatar
    Yanis Sarto

    It should vote YES and get rid of this goverment of ruthless authoritarian populists

  144. avatar
    Vivian Iliadou

    Is this a joke. See the results and then go back and vote. Well nothing changes… Nice propaganda!

  145. avatar
    John Brockhurst

    As in all walks of life, if you owe money then you have to re pay it. Greece’s creditors are at fault for allowing them to run up such a massive debt, but that does not eliminate Greece’s obligation to pay the money back. The thing that totally fascinates me is how the Germans with such a strong currency (the mark) have jeopardized it by going into the Euro, and sharing it with piss pot countries/economies like Greece

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      In my view, it’s not that difficult to understand. German politicians are deep within the cult of breakneck European integration. German intellectuals are very strongly idealist. The idealism of Nazi Germany has been crushed but not the idealism of Germans. The current idealist project is a united states of Europe, a somewhat more noble aim than Nazi domination, but nevertheless, dangerous.

      We can see in the Greek euro disaster that ideology trumps humanity. The only lesson that German and other European idealists will learn from this is the apparent need for greater fiscal integration. The EU ideology is very much alive and kicking.

  146. avatar
    HomoCogitans

    I have a great respect for all the people of the economically advanced countries because i think that they have the right attitude to achieve success. However, in the case of my country, Greece, i really think they are wrong and misguided by their leaders, most of which work towards creating a Europe(or even a world) in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Greece is like a field with fruit trees. If you just harvest the fruit, without planting new trees or just take care of the existing ones, the field will eventually have nothing to give you. If they just decrease the wages and pensions while they increase the taxes, Greece will never develop and the debt will just get bigger with each passing year. It’s high time we all Europeans put a stop to this plan. I request your help and support for Greece and for Europe.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      In my view, it’s up to Greek entrepreneurs to entice foreign investment to Greece. There is still a lot of investment capital in the world which can be put into Greece. If investors and trading partners see commercial potential in Greek industry and agriculture, then they will invest. If they won’t invest, then there will be good reasons, and it’s up to Greeks to understand these reasons and make the necessary changes to their systems. Business is business everywhere.

    • avatar
      HomoCogitans

      Well my friend, i highly agree with your oppinion. I also think that the ones most responsible for our situation are ourselves. However, you must acknowledge some things. Without any foundations and with taxes that get higher with each passing year, it’s only natural that fewer and fewer companies(and generally forms of business) are created and more and more get closed. I agree that we have to work hard and promote our products, but it would be a great help if other countries just gave us a “push” instead of holding us back even more. To make sure that you understand, i will give you an example. My grandparents own a hotel. In the last years, the taxes have gone so out of hand, that now they earn less money than they lose, so they can preserve it.

    • avatar
      James Campbell

      Ok thanks. I agree that the eurozone straitjacket is not helping Greece. The UK would not have tolerated impoverishment by the eurozone like the Greeks have.

      I don’t know what my country can do regarding Greek taxes. The UK has little influence in the EU and none in the eurozone. However, London-based financiers are always interested in serious business expansion proposals.

  147. avatar
    eusebio manuel vestias pecurto

    Today Greece runs toward another battle types one referendum that will determine its place in Europe and in world and mark your story

  148. avatar
    Irene Dewsbery

    I’m hoping they vote No so that all those people who vote for idiots like Tsipras see what happens when you vote for parties that think they can threaten and bully countries into funding the lifestyles of their political supporters and never pay the bill

  149. avatar
    Eiza Jean-Jacques Descayrac

    This is clearly a huge sacrifice from them If they leave Euro. If it is their final choice we Will have to respect their decision and learn from them about the causes.

  150. avatar
    vlad

    The Greek people should take some responsibility for the money they owe. That’s the real issue here not democracy or freedom. Maybe you shouldn’t spend money you don’t have. Its so easy to blame Europe for all this. What bank lends you money with no terms and no conditions that you never have to pay back? NONE and the IMF is no different. If you disagree than feel free to send me all your savings for nothing. I am just borrowing them. That’s an analogy but the point is clear. I guess vote no and try that because at least then you can’t blame Europe

  151. avatar
    catherine benning

    Greece has the identical dilemma that I have, according to this article in the Independent.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-debt-crisis-referendum-greeks-want-to-vote-no-to-austerity–but-yes-to-europe-10366477.html

    I am and want to remain European. I stand by and want to see all Europeans united as one great civilisation and force for good.

    However, when I vote for unity, as a one nation person, I don’t vote for either unelected or undemocratic banker debt masters called the, IMF/ECB/US takeover of our countries. I didn’t vote for a politically correct ruling bunch of fascists to tell me what I could think and say as I went about my daily life. I voted for true democracy and freedom for us all. Where, like the Swiss, we would have an opportunity to lead our government to the way we chose for our future, via the ballot box. Not a rigged set up funded by faceless enfprcers who are hell bent on destroying our way of life and culture, as they lead us to perpetual enslavement by a debt grip akin to the Company Store.

    I wish the Greek people a day of peace with true democracy at their finger tips whilst they make their choice between Yes or No. How very fortunate they are to have leaders humble enough to give them an opportunity to choose their tomorrow for themselves today.

  152. avatar
    Mike Oxlittle

    Here’s an idea! Instead of holding a referendum in Greece today too see if they want to continue taking money from other countries that they will never repay.How about holding a referendum in those other countries to ask there citizens if they want to keep paying. What do you think the result will be??.

  153. avatar
    Magdalini Kyriakopoulou

    No. Austerity has nor worked.

  154. avatar
    Χρήστος Μπίντας

    ΑΠΟΦΑΣΙΖΟΥΜΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΟ ΑΝ ΘΑ ΖΗΣΟΥΜΕ Ή ΑΝ ΘΑ ΑΥΤΟΚΤΟΝΗΣΟΥΜΕ!
    Λέμε ΝΑΙ στη Ζωή ΟΧΙ στο θάνατο!
    Τα πράγματα είχαν μπει σε έναν δρόμο! Ανηφορικό μεν, δύσκολο μεν, αλλά δρόμο! Ο Τσίπρας μας οδήγησε σε αχαρτογράφητα μονοπάτια που καταλήγουν σε γκρεμό!
    Έκλεισε όλα τα παράθυρα ευκαιρίας που είχε η Ελλάδα και μας οδήγησε σε αδιέξοδο! Κατόρθωσε το ακατόρθωτο: Όλα τα σενάρια τρόμου που κατήγγειλε πριν, να γίνουν πιθανά!
    Το προσωπικό του πρόβλημα το έκανε υπαρξιακό πρόβλημα της Ελλάδας!
    ΣΤΑ ΧΕΡΙΑ ΤΩΝ ΣΥΝΙΣΤΩΣΩΝ ΤΗΣ ΑΝΕΥΘΥΝΟΤΗΤΑΣ –ΕΥΡΕΩΣ ΠΟΛΙΤΙΚΟΥ ΦΑΣΜΑΤΟΣ- Η ΧΩΡΑ ΔΙΑΛΥΕΤΑΙ ΕΙΣ ΤΑ ΕΞ’ ΩΝ ΣΥΝΕΤΕΘΗ!
    Τώρα παίζει τα ρέστα του. Εμείς είμαστε τα ρέστα του!..

  155. avatar
    Alexander Kompotiatis

    Europe without Greece is a joke and you know it.Even the name “Europe” has a greek origin.Lagarde-Merkel-Schaeuble-Juncker should resign immediately.They wouldn’t remain in their offices in a private company.Their austerity programmes failed spectacularly.Greece has lost the 25% GDP and this happens only in war times

  156. avatar
    blugalf

    I really couldn’t care less about past Greek glory and what not. That’s not your achievement, and it’s going to buy you exactly nothing. Welcome to the present.

    The real joke here is the fact that the rest of the EU has allowed themselves to be paraded patiently for years by whining, lyeing, tricking, cheating, incompetent greeks. As things are ATM, an Eurozone with greece in it is a joke and a disgrace. What failed miserably is not the EU, not the IMF and not Germany, but greek governments and administrations, who managed to squander money from package after package with zero outcome. Who in 5 years have not managed to neither install a functional tax administration, nor cut their ridiculous public spending, nor curb overboarding corruption, nor take any meaningful measures towards more competitiveness, nor, well, have actually achieved anything worth mentioning. Now their creditors have finally run out of patience and can’t be blackmailed into sinking even more money into Greece without the prospect of any progress in the future. To which the greek governments responds by calling them terrorits, extortionists and accusing them of harboring god knows what ridiculous sinister schemes against poor little Greece. Who now has the effrontery of presenting childish conspiracy theories and accusing the people who have helped them generously in the past of wanting to destroy the greek economy (!!) and similar horseshít.

    If the creditors actually cave in to this preposterous blackmail, it’s going to be a huge slap in the face of those countries who took painful but measures, who gritted their teeth and saw their reforms through without whining and insulting everyone around them.

  157. avatar
    James Campbell

    Here’s an interesting article on economic growth in the eurozone since 1992. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stop-lying-to-the-greeks-life-without-the-euro-is-great-2015-07-02?page=2

    According to this article, the stats are clear that euro membership has been a total failure for Greece, from start to finish.

    What’s more, countries like Britain and Romania which are not in the eurozone have had significantly higher growth than the eurozone since its inception.

    The article reminds us of the catastrophic effect we were told that not joining the euro was supposed to have had on Britain.

    The euro project is a political folly of the highest order. RIP the euro.

  158. avatar
    Gerry Mavrie-Yanaki

    The Greek President has given the Prime Minister and his government a 48 hour deadline to reach agreement with the Eurozone

  159. avatar
    ancylostomiasis

    Last time the mess is this big, the Junta came. Greeks are asking for it.

  160. avatar
    ironworker

    After OXI comes the CONTAGION.

  161. avatar
    Louis Paris

    :)  Greece must stay in the EU should keep the euro, must pay its debt in the long term …. So let the tranquil Greek in their choice and with their taxes … But please close the European money tap. :(

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