uk-eu

Should they stay or should they go? With less than a month left on the clock until the UK leaves (“do or die, come what may”), a great deal of uncertainty remains. After three years of arduous negotiations, the UK and the EU have so far failed to reach a deal on the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration. Within the UK, this has further polarised attitudes towards Europe; on the one side there are those who advocate crashing out of the EU no matter what the consequences, and on the other are those in favour of reversing Brexit altogether.

If a deal can’t be reached over the Withdrawal Agreement (which covers the ‘divorce bill’, citizens’ rights, the two-year transition period during which a future relationship will be negotiated, and the ‘Irish backstop’ if the transition period expires without a long-term UK-EU deal being agreed), then the default legal position is a ‘no deal Brexit’. If that happens, the UK will leave the EU without a transition period, and presumably would then begin negotiating its future relationship with the EU from there.

‘No deal’ is the position taken by many Brexiteer politicians in the UK who believe that the country can thrive outside the EU bloc, trading under WTO rules. They dismiss stories of disruptions to food and medicine supplies as ‘Project Fear’. They vow to vote against a deal no matter what Boris Johnson comes back from Brussels with, and want to see him sidestep the legal requirement (passed by Parliament and signed into law by the Queen) to request a negotiating extension from Brussels.

For those who advocate staying in the EU, however, there is a growing sense of urgency. The Liberal Democrats have pledged to revoke Article 50 altogether (effectively cancelling Brexit without a referendum) if their leader, Jo Swinson, were to become Prime Minister. At the same time, the campaign for a second referendum / People’s Vote continues to gain momentum.

Should Britain leave the European Union? What do you think the future relationship between the UK and the EU should be? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Lee


2,107 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Harder times for the EU having to survive on 8 Billion euros less that the UK currently contributes to their budget

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK runs a 79% Trade Deficit with the EU and has the majority of its product and service standards accepted as the norm both at EU and ISO levels. So nothing is likely to change vis-a-vis trade as it would hurt the EU more than the UK. All that would happen is that the UK would save money, certainly more than that lost via any offsets.
      Harder I guess for the EU losing their 2nd largest Net Contributor to the EU coffers.

    • avatar
      Road rage

      Yeah whatever, you can stick your EU up your continental dirt bikes boxes, we’re Britons not Europeans

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Dump the EU then watch it collapse we don’t need to pay and have them making our laws, one armed forces, one flag, one currency I like our flag our currency and most of all our own rules. Kindly fuck odd and take your communism with you.

    • avatar
      Adri Hulshoff

      You really don’t understand. It’s not what you (netto) pay, the 7.3 billion, but what your economy earns by doing so. You can easily multiply this figure. Its the same with us Dutch. We netto pay 2,4 billion but it shown to be a gain of over 12 billion for our economy. So stop nagging and complaining and start reading the right figures…

    • avatar
      Marcel

      @Adri
      what you say is utter nonsense. Those reports claiming that the EU is so beneficial are written by Europhiles who lie and manipulate every statistic.

      We in Netherlands would be better off out, too. And we aren’t even done talking about the great betrayal when our socalled politicians committed treason by passing the undemocratic Lisbon Treaty.

    • avatar
      Prodhomme

      @adri
      I always lol’ed at this one.
      since when making hte cash flow an hand to an other makes one overall richier?
      Truth is not a matter of economics here (on which point UK is already doing better than the eurozone, precisely because they didn’t adopt the doomed curency) but symply a democratic probablem really:
      The EU is undemocratic. It’s construction has been undemocratic. And in hard time, I am not seeing it becoming more democratic…
      @Krisitian : what the stupid talk about left alone in hard times? When is this suppose to happen?In case you haven’t notice, hard times IS NOW. EuroZone has the lowest growth in the world, youth unemployement is more than 50% in greece, not far behind Spain, Portugal and France…
      If creating an union was such a good idea, why not the USA are not merging with Canada and Mexico, adopting let say…the Amro? China+Japan+Singapour and South Korea maybe?
      Yeah I don’t see that happen any ime soon…

    • avatar
      dryden@tesco.net

      And having 1 vote out of 27 is so advantageous inside the e.u. being able to make trade deals ourselves instead of dealing through Brussels.The U.K. has a seat as of right at most of the powerful organisations The U.N. NATO. Inside the e.u. they are just americas european poodle nothing more.

    • avatar
      Beth

      its important to stay in the EU for business. Most of the UKs business is with the EU.

    • avatar
      Straw and Heart

      Maybe hard times for a while. But I’m British and I can tell you my car insurance Went from £400 to £800 under the EU legislation. And the UK had hundreds of pieces of legislation from the EU. The EU is nothing more than a Dictatorship, leading us to world governance, world army and world policing. Research it yourselves. The New Workd Order and Satanism.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Michal Majtan
      The UK wants to leave the EU because the EU is too corrupt and too because the UK gives far too much to the EU for too little.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Michal Majtan
      That sounds akin to the excuses used by the Nazis post-WW2.

      If the EU rules are corrupt or grossly unfair – why should the UK adopt them?

    • avatar
      Mary Atkinson

      It’s not just Londons decision it’s the decision of the Whole UK

    • avatar
      Keith

      We choose we are leaving

  1. avatar
    Juraj Vravko

    They wont leave mark my words, imigrations will be on highlight across EU soon starting with Italy.

    • avatar
      Anette

      Well lets see, personally its only one vote for me and that is for UK to leave the European Circus.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      We are leaving bye bye

    • avatar
      Valentin Ion

      Hahaha! Good question! And funny! :))

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      No we are not really in. This is what the UK needs to decide. Do we leave or do we accept that the halfway house the UK resides in must be demolished and the UK must become a full and active member.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      No we are not really in. This is what the UK needs to decide. Do we leave or do we accept that the halfway house the UK resides in must be demolished and the UK must become a full and active member.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Depends what you define as “in”

      If you mean do we pay in, then we most certainly do

      If you mean do the British people want their taxes to be continually poured down the EU drain then most certainly not

    • avatar
      Prodhomme

      Europe is a geographic zone, and they definetly are.
      The European Union, is a political union, which can be very debated

    • avatar
      Herbert Carachi

      Not really the British were never in favour of European Union as it is now. It just wanted to be a member in the ECC to trade its goods and services europe wide and compete with the rest of the countries by whatever means. The UK wants to lead the EU and always be at an advantage over the rest of the club members, just like it used to run its empire.The UK can never be a European member untill such time its accepts that role of a member instead of running the EU.

    • avatar
      Adam

      I thought the Germans ran the club. It feels like Chancellor Merkel gets the final say in all the decisions. Cameron is her lap dog. We won’t leave Europe it’s a geographical. We do need to leave a controlling political entity that has no true democratic process.
      No to mention Merkel flooding Germany with economic migrants and putting her own people in danger, who knows how many rapists, murderers or terrorists she let in. Not to mention cheap labour, which will make even more unemployment for her own countrymen

    • avatar
      Straw and Heart

      This is for Beth..the UK traded with many countries before joining the EU. The EU didn’t want that, it wants full domination of the UK and all the other member countries. So the UK do business with Europe, because the EU made it that way. There’s a whole load of other countries the U.K. Are now FREE to trade with. The EU is corrupt, it’s the Nazis all over again. Trying to take over the world using economic means rather than bombs. Do we really want to be part of a global fraternity that is so evil and corrupt. Do you know what the EU has by way of a monument outside of its building? Do you know what it’s building shape is based on? It costs the UK 27bn £ to be in the EU.
      Whilst benefits of the old, the disabled, etc., has been cut back to the point people are killing themselves because they cannot cope. Since the EU foreign doctors nurses dentists have come to work in the UK, some of them cannot even speak English! And yet my sister, a specialist doctor in the USA with 30 years experience cannot come back here where she was born and work as a doctor!!!!! Is that really democratic? Believe me, there is nothing democratic about the EU, it dictates the UKs laws, that makes the EU a facist dictatorship. Research research research!

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      We can do a lot better on our own to deal with the world, we don’t even have a seat at the world trade organisation anymore, it’s bad for the UK we sell them a lot less that they sell us. There is no negatives in leaving as far as I am concerned.

    • avatar
      Joe Thorpe

      We stood alone in Europe twice before & Europe will be eternally in our debt for doing so. We should stand alone again.

    • avatar
      Steve

      We will do even better out of the EU we can trade with the whole world

    • avatar
      Rod Williams

      That’s just dumb.

    • avatar
      GetOutOfEurope

      I agree! Only too happy to be thrown out.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Mihai Rusu
      If the UK leaves the EU it will take decades longer for Romania to become a wealthy and civilized nation, if ever…

    • avatar
      Steve

      Yes please

    • avatar
      jaqui

      I hope they do Chuck us out. The celebrations will be awsome. We beea the Germans once and will not allow them to rule us by stealth

    • avatar
      Glennhook

      The EU was never a democratic block

    • avatar
      John Whitby

      The one thing that Europe isn’t is democratic, and that is the main reason that the UK wants out. We never were asked, and never wanted to join a Political Union, we asked to join a trading union. Ask France or Holland how democratic the EU is – they voted on and rejected the constitution, and still got it in the form of the Lisbon treaty! The EU is a smiling dicatorship.

    • avatar
      bert van santen

      Hahahahahahaha what a joke.
      The EU is democratic……..The Dutch and French voted against the ref in 2005, and as an answer the politicians turned everything around, gave it another name and moved on as scheduled!!!!
      Democracy and the EU……….hahahahahahahahhahahahaha

    • avatar
      Tom

      agree.. it is up to them.. it is democracy if they wish to leave, they have their right to do that..

  2. avatar
    Robert

    I do not know. In the short term, such a divorce will be messy and problematic for both sides, but probably more so for the UK.

    In the long run, the UK´s sleek economic policies will likely mitigate any fallout, and in some ways it is in a better position than the ageing, policy hesitant continent.

    • avatar
      vondaniken

      juncker and merkel already promised if brexit is for real there won’t be free trade agreement so they will lose roughly around 320bln pounds sterling of GDP. so the real question here is not whether they wanna be free self governing nation, but in fact is are they truly prepared to pay the price because without the trade agreement, all the trade negotiations are ran by a eu commissioner,who is also under Jean claude Juncker’s office. so from my point of you is really about trade and economy and not to forget they will be cut off from the euro market as well and lose control of freely moving the euro via the ECB so all these matters might lead to some very serious complications in the future.

    • avatar
      Cesar

      agreed. the EU always says if some nation leaves it will be penalized but i am certain that would not happen to the UK

    • avatar
      Kristina

      No way EU would just let them go and then sign all the arrangements with them again. EU will be playing hard to get, if UK leaves

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK runs a 79% Trade Deficit with the EU. In otherwords the EU sells 79% more goods to the UK than the UK buys from them. So any form of protectionism would hurt the EU more than it affects the UK. If you want to cut of your nose to spite your face whilst going through a recession that the UK has left behind then that would be up to you; somehow though I doubt it.

    • avatar
      GetOutOfEurope

      I agree! Only too happy to be thrown out.

    • avatar
      GetOutOfEurope

      Vondaniken – Britain in not a member of the Euro so doesn’t need to worry about access to the ECB.

      As to free trade – the EU countries, including Germany, export (sell) far more to the UK than we do to them. So blocking a free trade agreement, putting up barriers or generally throwing their toys out of the pram is going to hurt their countries far more than ours.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Borislav Valkov
      or NAFTA
      or a Commonwealth equivalent.

    • avatar
      vondaniken

      GetOutOfEurope May 8th, 2015 I dare you to put it to a test i dare you brittons. And mark my words when i tell you that brussels and germany already considered Brexit. I mean misses Merkel is called the iron lady of Germany. She is well known for that when Helmut Khol Left German policy under a big scandal and she was a minister during his administration, and she made it look like he was the only one responsible. So there’s no doubt she will make it look like that Dave is the one to blame for brexit,
      Second very important the other four nations especially the scots and the welsh wants to be part in the EU, so if they are not to count the votes separately by the country, U might destroy the union that have been building in the past 3 centuries.
      And third about Borislav Valkov comment and on EFTA they will still have to accept migrants from the EU and apply the Schengen laws and will not have the say so about EU anymore. But is unlike to trade with EU after they left because merkel and juncker already promised to cameron if its a no vote they will not sign the agreement!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Vondaniken,

      What a load of tripe.

      1. Where do you get £320bn of GDP from. Our total trade with the EU is £155bn. China Exported £279.9bn and Russia £206.6bn. The US £196bn. So you do not need a to be in the EU to trade with the EU. Incidentally the EU only accounts for between 35-41% of UK Exports (taking into account the Rotterdam Effect).

      Also the UK is the largest EU export market, Do you think the Eu and especially Germany would want to lose this? You are stupid if you do.

      2. We are not in the Eurozone and so do not use the Euro.

      3. There are a total of 4 nations in our Union, not 5. And we would vote as a Union in a democratic way, one vote one person. The Union is safe.

      4. The UK would not need to stay in EFTA and would not need to agree to free movement of people. The EU has 109 Trade Agreements which do not include free movement of people.

      5. We have a Trade Deficit with the EU so it would benefit us to get less of your goods. So go on keep abusing us and threatening us with Germany, just shows how scared you really are.

    • avatar
      vondaniken

      hahahahha danny it seems you are the one who does not understand if uk leaves all the goods that you guys export would be absorbed by Germany and France the commission wouldnt need to sign a trade agreement with Britain, simply because everything you guys manufacture , is already manufactured and produced in France, Germany, the Nederlands, Poland and etc. so no need for any trade between Brussels and London.
      Second i was not threatening with Germany i was stating a fact that the germans were the one which created in a first place, and that if you do something stupid to endanger the project they wont trade with Uk especially in an age of globalization which benefactor you are not considering. And that is called trancealtantic trade agreement i mean really and i dont mean to be rude but who needs the uk market with tranceatlantic trade agreement surely Berlin and Brussels could afford to let you leave.
      In order for london to keep being the financial capital of Europe is essential to stay in the EU, because if it left it would lose the ability to move freely the euro currency without any taxation from ECB.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Vondaniken, As a previous Trade & Industry Brief Writer for both Margaret Thatcher and Lord Young I think I probably know more about this than you.

      A in economics and trade for you. People in the EU do not but UK goods and services because they are forced to, they buy them because they want to. Countries like France and Germany may produce similar products (and in fact already do) but people buy the UK goods, just like people in the UK buy German manufactured cars instead of UK manufactured ones. This will not change

      Furthermore do you believe that in the instance of Germany they would be willing to lose one of their largest markets for cars? The answer is no, so they will not want trade barriers. Neither would the rest of the EU which currently sells us 79% more than we sell to them. Of course if they did then the UK would respond and EU countries and manufacturers would be the worst hit.

      2. I refer back to the point about Germany, they may not be the most intelligent but they will not be willing to lose one of their largest markets just because the UK leaves the EU.

      3 The EU already trades with the US, all this agreement does is codify current arrangements and remove some WTO agreed TB’s from either side. The impact of increased trade with the US will not be large just simpler. So yes as their largest market the EU will still need the UK.

      4. The UK does not use the Euro did you not know that, and there is no taxation on the movement of any currency anywhere on the world. London will continue and probably grow just as it did when the UK did not join the Euro, the only difference will be that London will be exempt from the stupid rules and taxes currently being devised by the EU to apply to financial business within the Eurozone and eventually the EU. SO we are quids in.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Many different theories on the site about what might and might not happen should the UK leave the EU. The truth is that nobody knows and that is the whole point of the 2-year notice period to leave and the negotiations that take place during it. The bottom line of this whole exercise is that one of the official goals of the EU is to improve living standards for the population whereas the goal of the Conservatives is to have a strong City and a strong economy without any regard for social policy. Hence Mr Cameron’s 2 major problems with the EU are the payment of benefits and banking regulation, and more specifically regulation about capping bank bonuses. So for Mr Cameron and his party to realise their plan about the UK it is imperative to get the EU out of the way, or it will be impossible. In this quest he is employing a number of tools in order to manipulate public opinion: making an issue out of paying EU migrants benefits amongst other groups (he has already withdrawn payment of benefits from a number of other social groups: young, disabled, cancer patients etc but never from his own voters, the wealthy elderly, some of whom have taken the government to court over their benefits and won their cases) thus creating the impression that it is mostly EU migrants that mostly claim benefits and are a burden on the UK state when the statistics do no show that, promising a referendum etc. Actually, how many people know that such a referendum is not legally binding, as EU treaties are subject to parliamentary ratification only and no referenda. This is in my opinion an attempt to let the mob take over and bypass a parliament. It is all about class clash between Mr Cameron and the EU, in my view. There is nothing more to it. He is on a mission to defend big bankers’ bonuses and lifestyles at the expense of the living standards of common citizens and the EU is getting in the way. The people that come here and defend his policy, either benefit from it directly, or have been completely brainwashed by the UK media. This is the downside of democracy…people with a low educational level that are also easy to manipulate also have the right to vote.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Yvetta,

      The UK’s Statistics vary as to whether EU migrants are a net benefit to the UK Economy with some reports saying yes and others no. The HoC Briefs to Ministers & MP’s state that they are not a benefit.

      As regards a referendum this gives the UK authority to enact a decision.

      BTW did you know that technically the UK never legally joined the EU (then EEC) as the Referendum was held 2 years after the UK joined and under EU law the Referendum should have been held before we joined.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Hi Danny, quoting from my above post : “such a referendum is not legally binding, as EU treaties are subject to parliamentary ratification only and no referenda. ” adding the word membership to that. Thanks.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      If there was no benefit to being a member the community wouldn’t have been created to start with and countries would not still be applying to join.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Yvetta,

      Leaving the EU does not require a treaty ratification rather it just requires notification by the UK that it intends to withdraw from the Treaty, technically no Parliamentary approval is required.

      You are right some poor countries are lining up to join this is because for decades they will be Net Beneficiaries. However Iceland which was next in line to join has formally withdrawn their application. This was because although they would have been a Net Beneficiary they cost and risk to their fishing waters was deemed to high.

      So you see countries are only joining when they think they can gain financially but as soon as they realise they may not they are running away like mad.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Hi Danny, I was referring to joining. I can’t comment on the rest, as I am not an expert.

    • avatar
      vondaniken

      Okay Danny Last question and i quit.
      Will the illuminated free masons in Westminster let you leave the EU?

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Vondaniken,

      If the majority vote to leave the Westminster will abide by the decision, failure to do so would bring down the Government.

    • avatar
      Odtaa

      You are probably right even though this will be the worst option for the UK. We will have to obey all EU regulations, but have no say.

      We will still have the freedom of movement within the EU – which will mean our politicians will carry on fighting – I would expect calls for a referendum out of EFTA within a few years.

      We will still have to pay almost the same amount of cash to the EU.

      Some businesses will move out of the U.K. to the EU as Britain will be less stable and the pound will be jumping up and down like a yo yo.

      Countries like France and Germany will collude with the Americans to gradually weaken the UK’s finance and services industries.

      Britain will decline slowly compared to the rest of Europe.

      24/01/2018 David Phinnemore, Professor of European Politics at Queen’s University Belfast, has responded to this comment.

      24/01/2018 Sieglinde Gstohl, Professor of International Relations and Director of the Department of EU International Relations and Diplomacy Studies at the College of Europe in Bruges, has responded to this comment.

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      Exactly what will happen. The UK will still trade with Europe, at the same ‘cost’ of contributions and migrants to retain the deals it freely has now. It will loose it’s remaining empire. SCOTLAND, GIBRALTAR, FALKLANDS all gone in negotiations, London will turn its backs on N.I and Wales.

    • avatar
      Keith

      no chance it wouldn’t dare

    • avatar
      Keith

      Nope

  3. avatar
    Oliver Hauss

    Shouldn’t that be “English voters”? After all, the Conservatives din’t really have much success in Wales, let alone Scotland.

    • avatar
      Glennhook

      Ha are you telling me no more Mercedes no more BMW audi VW Renault Peugeot fiat cars and vans delivered to the UK wake up don’t be daft the UK se less than 32% to the EU were as The EU sell a massive amount here

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      A fair point. One of the fears is that if the UK gives notice to leave the EU, Scotland and Northern Ireland will give their notices to leave the UK, and stay in the EU. So, not much room for manoeuvre really. A populist exercise, not much else in this anti-EU talk. Might end up winning some UKIP voters over.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Yvetta,

      Northern Ireland would also support leaving the EU and the Republic of Ireland has also indicated that of the UK leaves then they will leave also.

      As regards Scotland they would be able to apply for a Referendum but given that the Referednum Bill stated that it was a “Once in a Lifetime” Referendum then as 25 years have not lapsed it probably would not be approved. Even if it were then they would still need to leave the EU as part of the UK and then even of they then voted to leave the K they would still need to join the list for prospective members for the EU after a Referendum on that matter also.

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Hi Danny, where can I go to read Northern Ireland’s and Scotland’s stance on the UK’s leaving the EU? I would really appreciate a link. Thanks.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Hi Yvetta,

      Bets place is to Google it and then work through all of the info. Also Google the Republic of Ireland’s stance and consensus to leave the UK for each Nation in the Kingdom

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      ha ha, I thought so, Danny…

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Here is the first thing that comes up by the way:
      http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/leaving-eu-would-damage-n-ireland-31192943.html
      “EU funding is worth almost a tenth of Northern Ireland’s gross domestic product, a report has said.The cost of a British exit from the union may be too great to bear, researchers said.

      The Open University review claimed the price of doing cross-border business would rise, undermining the logic of harmonising corporation tax rates north and south and putting Northern Ireland at a disadvantage.”

      I’ll let you read the rest.

      And here is the second thing that comes up:
      http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=13&pub_id=3689
      “Leaders of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) and Sinn Féin – the two main political parties in Northern Ireland – have already stated that they are opposed to the UK leaving the EU.”

  4. avatar
    Keivan Hadji Hossein

    I do not support the Cons, but if the UK left the EU, probably Europe will finally be free to start a true integration that will make us Europeans get better!

    • avatar
      Rod Williams

      Enough with emigration. I don’t feel like being blown up by the Islamic State. EU always worked fine that way because its countries were trusty and reliable so EU citizens could go to wherever they wanted to. Now, everyone seems to be allowed to come in the EU. Perhaps they should just have Its frontiers up and stop other people from coming in as they will. The UK, France and several other countries want that as well.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Keivan Hadji Hossein
      If the UK leaves the EU, the EU will become a Latin bloc ==> corruption, disregard for ‘rule of law’ etc etc

    • avatar
      Prodhomme

      lol or you will watch the europeean union keep on failing, like any trans-national undemocratic form of empire, and dies out. UK is so much better off. Think about it…what would have happen today to you if you had taken the Euro?
      Peoples think this whole concept of politicla union and single currency is so revolutionary but it is NOT. The EU will fail after one of it state exit, like USSR failed slowly after lithuania exit!

    • avatar
      jaqui

      Integration… yeah. Genocide more like

    • avatar
      Gary Barnacle

      Anyone that wants to be more intrigated should be put in a mental home as they can not be sane.

    • avatar
      Gvasco

      Gary Barnacle you should be the one put in a mental institution for saying such barbarities!

  5. avatar
    luc sabbe

    If the EU really wants to be a union with its proper government, it should be better off without the UK (now the “divided kingdom”), unless they change their minds.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      You are right we have to decide either to leave or become a full and active member, no more halfway house

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Luc Sabbe
      WRONG.
      The EU is already the smallest potential trade bloc in area as well as population. If the Uk leaves the EU the EU will get 15% smaller wealth wise and 12% smaller population-wise.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      no we wont change our minds and if we leave the french wont be far behind leaving if not before if le penns nationale front get in they will leave straight away

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The Falklands is UK Territory and it’s Citizens have chose to stay so.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Gian Marco
      Malvinas Islands? Never heard of them?

    • avatar
      Steve P

      try making us then see how far your country gets with that

    • avatar
      Jacqui jackson

      No such thing as the malvinas isles. It’s British territory…ask the residents there..Oh yes we did didn’t we..almost a 95% vote FOR the UK.

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      They don’t care about you. They care about inaccessible oil. You will be used and sold in a free trade agreement with Argentina.

    • avatar
      Keith

      No the Falklands were britiwsh before Argentina was even a country, there called the falklands by the way not Malvinas.

    • avatar
      Keith

      No such place as the malvinas, and by the way the Falklands were out be for Argentina even existed.

  6. avatar
    Joe DaSilva

    Everyone should leave the European Union. After all, its nothing but a useless union serving no ones interests

  7. avatar
    Ferenc Lázár

    ,U.K. wouldn’t be the same without Europe, would loose a lot if they leave E.U. However it’s time for E.U. burocracy and liberalism to accept the critics coming from the member states!

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Ferenc Lázár
      Some pundits state that the UK would GAIN if it left the EU, so don’t be so sure. Besides setting up a Commonwealth Union would take just 2-3 years as everyone would speak the same language, similar laws and the same Queen.

    • avatar
      Gary Barnacle

      If we had not joined we would still have a large fishing industry we would still have profitable coal industry and we would still have a steel industry, we would not have stupid rules like straight bananas and cucumbers, not able to do anything about the top EU people who can make rules to be forced on us these people that cannot be voted out of the EU, is the world’s biggest joke, and GB politicians are an even bigger joke for supporting membership, and the biggest joke of all is the EU immigration policy or should I say what immigration policy it might as well just say anyone welcome, I feel sorry for the little boy whose picture has made people want to help the migrants but when you realise that the reason he died was not because they were moving to safety they were trying to get to England so his farther could get free dental treatment on the NHS

    • avatar
      Gvasco

      Gary Barnacle yes maybe you’d still have a bigger fishing industry but then you would have had to face fisheries colapse due to overfishing. Maybe you’d still have a coal industry to the detriment of the health of the people working in it and potential deaths as you’d dig ever deeper. Maybe you’d still have a steel industry as you’d have the coal to produce it. However you can do something about the top EU people that you say force they laws upon you and vote for in the European elections as it’s in the European parliament that all directives are voted and all MEP’s can influence these decisions. I’ll agree on one thing the whole undemocracy thing starts in the different countries as people are not consulted befor major treaties are signed. The whole immigration policy as you put which is called freedom of movement and comerce is at the core of EU philosophy and it is the best thing about it. You cannot stop immigration and this helps the countries worst off a good chance to rise to same level of stability as those countries that are better off. What you forget is that immigrants end up contributing more to the economy of the country of residence than they do to their home country as they buy houses and cars and go about living.

    • avatar
      Keith

      Complete and utter rubbish. The real problem is if we do not get out 2 prices of legal come jn 2020 2022 then we will of lost the UK for good. Stock exchange mo es to frankfurt we adopt the euro. We lose all opt out with the EU. No thanks.

  8. avatar
    Toni Muñiz

    We should all leave. The EU is worthless as is. Governs with back to its citizens, and not because it’s leading them. EU has other interests in mind which are not those of it’s citizens or Europe.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Totally agree

    • avatar
      Arielle

      Yeah right then all single country will negotiate trade agreement with US, China, Brazil. It will be so easy and equally balanced!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Arielle, As one of the largest trading countries in the World people want to trade with us. The trade agreements we make can be designed to meet the needs of one country better than a trade agreement designed to meet the needs of 28

    • avatar
      Yvetta

      Or they would never happen Danny, as it would take about 100 years to negotiate all of them….

    • avatar
      Steve P

      100 years what rubbish it would take a few months were world business traders

    • avatar
      Alexandre PROD'HOMME

      Oh irony.
      You do realise USA are pushing for the EU?
      You realize that the USA are putting pressure on UK to stay?
      You realize that UE is the political and economical side of the coin, the NATO the other side?
      Why are we debatting over Turkey joining the union (and giving roughly a bilion) and not Russia? It never occured to you that these are almost ONLY NATO COUNTRIES. (That explain also maybe why putin wasn’t too keen to see ukraine being an US outpost at their door..)
      The next step in the USA ruling over UE is the TTIP, on its way…

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Nick and Alexandre, Evidence please to support your statements

    • avatar
      Alexandre Prod'homme

      Not a problem my friend :) It’s out there if you are curious…

      Bill Clinton:
      “And I want to once again reaffirm my personal strong support for Turkey’s European Union candidacy … I feel very strongly that one of the four or five key questions to the future of this whole part of the world is whether Turkey is a full partner with the European Union. So I will continue to advocate it.”
      Sauce: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PPP-1999-book2/pdf/PPP-1999-book2-doc-pg2090.pdf

      George W. Bush :
      “All of Europe’s democracies, from the Baltic to the Black Sea and all that lie between, should have the same chance for security and freedom and the same chance to join the institutions of Europe as Europe’s other democracies have.”
      Sauce: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-108shrg91300/html/CHRG-108shrg91300.htm

      Condoleezza Rice:
      “America has strongly supported the European project. We have paid dearly to support Europe’s transformation and integration — because it was in our interests”

      Eisenhower, if you can read this french:
      http://img.agoravox.fr/local/cache-vignettes/L620xH244/Eisen-66c9e.jpg
      ( interview in Paris Match n°136, p.18, 27 octobre 1951)
      or the rough translation I offer:
      “Nothing would please us more than learning that the states of western europe decide to unite in a city of europe -let’s say luxembourg- delegate with the right of writting down the European constitution and that Europe would work as a federation. Nothing can help us more in the plan we follow”

      Feel free to compare this two maps:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union#/media/File:European_Union_member_states_by_form_of_government.svg
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#/media/File:Major_NATO_affiliations_in_Europe.svg

      Or take a look to Declassified US documents like Ambrose did?

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

      Should I continue

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Alexandre,

      Great quotes but none relate to their support for the EU not a political European state neither do any indicate any plan of control or rule of the EU by the US as you both have stated. This is the evidence I have asked for otherwise you are just selling conspiracy stories

    • avatar
      Alexandre Prod'homme

      Danny> Erm, yes.
      Did you read the article about declassified US documents?
      <>

      Sorry, but no need to call it conspiracy bullshit because you don’t like that idea and it doesn’t fit the Myth that EU is making the whole stronger versus the US.
      If you ask my grand parents generation, it’s a given that Europe as been pushed forward, initially to counter Socialism at the east.
      To date, the US have a “Bureau of European Affairs”… Do we have a ministry to the US affairs? I don’t think so.
      They won’t obviously RULE over us, but their influence is here, and yes, I initially stated that countries like Turkey are asked to join the EU because they are NATO. I bring solid arguments.
      Where are yours?
      You are in the denial imo…
      Maybe you are some sort of conspiracist??? :)

    • avatar
      Alexandre Prod'homme

      Danny >
      The quote got deleted between the marks. I wrote:

      “The documents show that ACUE financed the European Movement, the most important federalist organisation in the post-war years. In 1958, for example, it provided 53.5 per cent of the movement’s funds.
      (…)
      A memo from the European section, dated June 11, 1965, advises the vice-president of the European Economic Community, Robert Marjolin, to pursue monetary union by stealth.
      (…)
      It recommends suppressing debate until the point at which “adoption of such proposals would become virtually inescapable”

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Alexandre,

      As you are well aware ACUE was established to promote political integration within Europe to counter the threat of communism. They are not there to rule the UK nor is there any evidence that they are working with the UK Government to rule the EU. So still no proof of plans of conquest by the US.

    • avatar
      Alexandre Prod'homme

      Danny, as you’re well aware,
      ‘promote’ and ‘finance’ is not quite the same.
      It just shows that back in the days, between the speech, and the actual means there was a gap the public wasn’t necessarily quite aware of.
      I am not saying they’re our overlord, ruling by force, but to think a lot (and I really mean a LOT) of the EU policies and politicians aren’t under influence is… naive at best.

      > Actual Leaders of EU ? Spied and listened by our ‘friends’
      > “Founding father” ? Financed.
      > What the common point between Francois Hollande, his 1st Minister and a few of them? All are “Young Leaders” of the prestigious “French American Foundation”.
      > Allain Juppe, leader of the opposition and possible candidate for Presidency? Same, a Young Leader of FAF..
      Need even more in your face? Just read the treaties:
      > The Article 42 of the Lisbon Treaty (sort of EU constituion, that french and dutch rejected by referundum BTW) put any EU country under NATO influence as following:
      “The policy of the Union in accordance with this Section shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States and shall respect the obligations of certain Member States, which see their common defence realised in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO), under the North Atlantic Treaty and be compatible with the common security and defence policy established within that framework.”

      Am I the only one shocked by the definitive nature of this sort of policy? What if a member state don’t agree with the policy of NATO? (like invading irak..)
      See, I could continue on and on,
      but long story short, things are not going to get any better once we join the TTIP and I could elaborate why it will weaken member states sovreignety a bit more, but my individual post will get way too long I am afraid

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Alexandre,

      The quote you use is a reference to the fact that some countries within Europe play active roles within NATO and would not want to be limited or affected in their role as such members. TBH if the Euro Army comes off then I can see this disappearing over time with the EU, rather than nation states, becoming the member and probably sitting fully on the Security Council in place of the UK; although this would require the UK handing over control of it’s nuclear weapons to the EU which even if we are mad enough to vote to stay in would probably be a step too far.

      None of the links you provide give proof of a US plan to overthrow the institutions of Europe and take control, or even to express a desire to control from the sidelines. As regards the UK then yes the US would prefer us as a member of the EU quite simply because ours and their anglo philosophy are the same and they would not wish the anglo element to be lost in the EU as without it the EU would be quite foreign in its outlook and practices.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Alexandre please do not distort facts to suit your purpose. The US DOES NOT have a Bureau of European Affairs, it has a Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs which is part of the US Department of State.

      This Bureau is no different from the UK’s own divisions which form part of the Foreign Office, or are you suggest that the UK has plans to take over Japan, China, Russia etc?

      You are seeing conspiracies where none exist. Yes the US does like to encourage policies preferential to their own interests but so does nearly every other country.

    • avatar
      alexandre

      Danny>
      Again, you keep on calling on conspiracy, which I didn’t named so.
      I didn’t try to twist the name I hardly remembered the full name was eurasian, I am just always annoyed at Victoria Nulland public quotes in the press
      (and to be fair, it’s not the same as foreign office in France -which is global- and which is the one i know the best. We have no ministry to north american affair.)
      I think I defended my point well: leaving the EU is opposite to the profound will of the US -hence the idea that if UK leave the EU will make them the lapdog is wrong.
      I don’t think that except calling me conspiracist you managed to proce me wrong.
      I will leave you with another article sipporting that US is working actively to an ever closer union between european state:
      Obama urges UK to stay in European Union
      http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33647154

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Alexandre,

      You are right I am saying that I believe you believe there is a conspiracy with the US trying to take over and control the EU, this is what you keep suggesting whether you realise it or not.

      The fact that in France you do not have such Divisions within your Foreign Office shows the difference between our approach and the Anglo Approach of countries such as the US and the UK. This is precisely why the US wants the UK to remain a member so that and Anglo influence is not lost. Personally I believe we should leave and shove what the US may prefer, they are after all a Foreign Power.

  9. avatar
    Tom Johnstone

    ENGLAND should leave the EU, if England tried to leave whilst in the UK, then there will be no UK. Scotland is a committed European nation, not prone to the kind of scaremongering around the EU as little Englanders

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The yorkies are part of the United Kingdom, any decision should be a democratic one involving all of its citizens. Scotland escapes most of the 5,700,000 EU migrants since 1997 so has less infrastructure problems

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Tom Johnstone
      Typical bilge from an EU – incontinent-alist!

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Yea Scotland want UK exit but wants more EU them Scott’s voting that really are turkeys voting for Christmas

  10. avatar
    Cesare Barberis

    For the best of both the EU and England, I think they should leave. I instead hope for Scotland and Wales to become independent and join the EU.

    • avatar
      Joe Thorpe

      You do know Wales & Scotland would be looking for hand outs from the EU like they get from the UK budget? They would be net recipients not contributors to the EU budget

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      @joe England stole Scotlands oil wealth and convinced ‘well educated’ people like you, that THEY take from England.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Won’t happen we. Leave as 1 nation. Our UK is a little EU we all trade with each other freely no borders. So most of Wales and Scotland trade is UK wide not EU only 7% of businesses trade with the eu, mainly corporation and big supermarkets ect. The Scots can be daft at times but not that daft.

  11. avatar
    Marta de Monfort

    The UK should finally stop sitting on the fence. Either way, the Britons should make a decision (in a democratic vote) and then stick to it. They should either decide to go and then truly leave, or decide to stay in, but then engage and commit to the integration process. By running an empty chair policy as the UK does now it only makes itself weak, and it makes the EU weak.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      You are correct we need to decide either to leave or become a full and active member

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      We do need to decide but we use to have a chair in the world trade organisation we no longer do someone from the EU non Brit does that and we never know what goes on so trade is now out of our hands law is out of our hands we need to et out ASAP and why have we still got a gov what do they do these days?

    • avatar
      Keith

      We have and we want to leave. We made our desicio. It’s out PMs that are trying to do the dirty. We will leave do not worry.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Jorge A. Rodrigues
      Why, you ungrateful so-and-so, after all the money the UK has given you to civilize your poor country!

    • avatar
      Xisco Beltran

      @Tarquin Farquhar

      1. If you think that to be poor is an insult then you are a poor man, and I am not talking about economy.

      2. The country that you are talking about have more than one million British living in, around 300 000 working and the main part are old people who use the health system and so, much more than you though. I have to say that they are not registered and not paying the taxes in the country… you can check the fifth point of:

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/19/what-would-happen-if-britain-left-the-eu-consequences-of-exit

      3. I do not agree what he said but that doesn’t mean that you have to be so rude. To remain or not in the EU is up to British. What I prefer or want means nothing here, but I have to say that other countries, like Norway, even being out of the EU, they follow some treaties, like the freedom of movement or working treaty. I don’t know right now how will be the relation after the referendum… I just hope that my many British friends, some of them from the school time, don’t have to live. I don’t think so.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Xisco

      Those pensioners you refer to have bought houses in that country (where there is a glut in supply) and spend their money in that country. They do not take jobs or receive benefits from that country.

      Yes some use the health system there but many go private and I believe those using the state system their cost is refunded by the UK under reciprocal arrangements

    • avatar
      Xisco Beltran

      @Danny

      Danny check one more time my comment and you will see that what you say is not my main point… the point was someone calling poor to another as an insult and you say nothing about that. Do you think this is a right?
      On the other hand, it’s true what you say, the good old British buy bargains that the people from the country cannot afford. However, it’s not true that they are not taking jobs, around 300.000 British are registered in the country and working as the other 5 million immigrants that live in the country. Country that have 5 million people unemployed. But that’s not the point, those are just numbers… and I rather prefer talk about people. It’s not important for me if they are working or not, if they have money or not. The only thing that matters to me is if they feel fine living in that country. I have to say that it’s an honor that they choose that country to live out of Great Britain over the other European countries.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Xisco,

      No it was inappropriate.

      My personal experience is that those working over there tend to work in British business or to be self employed. Personally I love the country and with a house there try to spend as much time as possible over there, let’s hope it doesn’t if the UK votes to leave the EU

    • avatar
      Yasmine

      Well said Xisco!

  12. avatar
    Peter Castermans

    UK out, Scotland in. Camerons Brexit wil cause a lot of no-voters for independence switch tot a yes -vote.
    They are more then welcome. They are pro-Europe and keep 1/3th of the territory of the UK in the EU. They have the most oil of the EU.

    Anyway the winner takes it all is fucked up. With a loss of 13% in votes the Libdems lose 85% of the seats. That isn’t really democratic. In such system only swing voters count and a majority of the voters isn’t even represented.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Wrong oil has been found in the south coast of England. Anyway half UK can’t stay in and half out that’s nonsense we are all out or not preferable out

  13. avatar
    Ivan Burrows

    Debating Europe

    Thank you for your support, we will be leaving shortly. :)

    The question you should be asking is will the French people leave before us ?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Ivan Burrows
      WELL SAID!

      UKIP in the EU should launch a campaign ‘with greater political union comes language union – and that langauge is ENGLISH’ – That would really upset the corrupt French politicos.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Luli Nuredini
      Of course he was right- if the UK had been in from the start the EU would not have been so corrupt.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      But he decided to let us in when he realised how much they could screw out of the UK to support the totally French biased CAP didn’t eh?

  14. avatar
    John Zervas

    It’s simple, UK will never leave the EU, it will opt out from the Treaties as much as it can. It will always vote for more new member states to join the EU because it wants an EU without one voice but with many that argue with one another. Why? Because it wants and always will want (and need) to be USA’s first and only responsible and credible disussant, not the EU. If by any chance the EU moved to a serious deepening of the Union and started speaking in one coherent and cohesive voice, UK would return to the Middle Ages as it has no other serious means of keeping its status as a middle-class world power.

    • avatar
      P Laird

      Rubbish ! We did quite well before we joined the EU with the Commonwealth. We never did like to be dictated to and that’s what the EU is, a dictatorship.

    • avatar
      Pwm

      One question, what are you smoking

  15. avatar
    Кристиян Савов

    No, not the English ,please BUT ,THE ARABS,THE TURKS ,THE INDIANS ,THE PAKISTANS ,THE ROMA-INDIANS ,THE AFRICANS and all of the Asians ,AFRICANS and other NOT-EUROPEANS should leave Europe and go back to dwell in their own homenland and their own continents.Europe is so small to take in the folks of 3 whole Earth’s mainalnds -Asia,Africa and Latin America.Please,leave us,the Europeans unharmed.

    • avatar
      GetOutOfEurope

      Well said.

    • avatar
      Nancy Wells

      Interesting comment…but if it was made by a British !

    • avatar
      vini

      Ignorant

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Marius Spinu
      What asinine thinking!

    • avatar
      Paul Z

      Agreed, I just don’t know how those other countries manage to survive trading in the Dollar, Yen, Rupee etc?

    • avatar
      Keith

      Euro will fold you won’t have it yet and if your Italian you will be going back to the lira be ause when you do you will default on your massive debt and you will take the eurodown with you.

  16. avatar
    Caro Line

    Britain doesn’t know what consequences this decision might have for them…

    • avatar
      Cesar

      if EU were strong they would “punish” a Brexit… however I am more than certain that if the UK does leave EU they will get the same benefits as Swizterland and others of the EFTA…. meaning… same trade benefits

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      WE know the pro’s and con’s of the decision. With a 79% Trade Deficit with the EU any trade aggression should we decide to leave would cost the EU more money and jobs. Can the EU afford this during its economic downturn? Can it afford to lose its 2nd largest net contributor?

    • avatar
      John Whitby

      Oh, we know very well. We regain our seat at the WTO and can negotiate our own trade deals with the Commonwealth (which contains some of the biggest growing economies, ansd we will be free to trade with the whole world again. As for penalties and blocking from the EU, where will Audi, VW, BMW and Mercedes sell their cars? We have a huge trade defecit with the EU, can they afford to not trade with us? Yes, there will be initial uncertainty and some pain, but in the main to get out from under the EU burocracy will be hugely beneficial.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Caro Line
      No-one does!

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      @John you expect ‘commonwealth’ countries to give the UK a better deal? The common wealth hates what the UK did to them, you oppressed and raped them of everything valuable. They are now wealthy and do not need or want a trade agreement with an insignificant island on the edge of Europe.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      we wont i assure you

    • avatar
      Gary Barnacle

      Please Mr Victor Sorin Popaliciu explain how leaving the European Union that has un elected people making laws, be more democratic than an elected goverment?

    • avatar
      Pwm

      Really, what mental ward are you missing from.

  17. avatar
    Andrew Lally

    it seems to be the (shortsighted) will of the people, so let them go – let them learn from their foolhardiness that they’re not the special case they think they are

  18. avatar
    fockerski

    brits want to be in the union only so they can have a free pass to travel across europe. Anything else is just plain racist

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      5,700,000 EU migrants have entered the UK since 1997, only 1,800,000 UK citizens have moved to EU countries.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Fockerski
      I prefer Aus, NZ, Can & the USA to ANY part of little EU.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      you wont though hahaha ,end of the EU because we leave the irish will leave and shortly followed by the french who will if National Front win power and i hope they do

    • avatar
      Alex P

      @Steve P > Front National son’t want to leave. They are for “another Europe”… i.e a white and christian one. Which is already the case. What it baffles me is that peoples, even liberals, fail to see how undemocratic and racist the EUSSR construction is. A club of white country. Like if we were deemed to share destiny/trade/everything more with Lithuania over Algeria or India.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Thanks jude and correct it’s up to us. People get us wrong we love Europe and European people the problem lies with the undemocratic dying EU. Soon will be gone forever and we can get on with our lives in peace.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      dont you mean your country is on its knees being the germans bitch haha

  19. avatar
    Antonio Pinto Caldeira

    England is part of Europe and wil allways be as any european country. A different matter is being part of EU wich is another thing. Nobody in is right mind is willing to be part of this monstruos corporate dictatorship.

    • avatar
      Carls white

      Well said!

    • avatar
      fockerski

      thats what you think, ask any self-respecting Brit what he thinks about that and he will tell you straight up that he is a British first and then English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish as the case maybe. Do cubans think they are North American ? Its the same with brits

  20. avatar
    Marek Richert

    Heh, few weeks ago they use difrent argument when Scotland had referendum to leave United Kindom :)
    Now they show they real face like in 1945 in Jauta (Churchil, Roosevelt, Stalin conference). Now they try to build new “German Wall”. Unresponsible move!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      A 300+year democratic and fiscal union is slightly different to a 42 year trade block

  21. avatar
    Alex Grech.

    The only way to predict the future is to create it, don’t be led by EU simulation.
    At least you will not take a diktat from Brussels.

    • avatar
      Frances Fox

      For other Countries it is good but not for Britain otherwise we would not have all our public services going down the drain overloading our Country taking away control of the British people.

  22. avatar
    Vagelis Priftis

    No…it’s about Europe’s balance UK not to leave eu… Eu was made to avoid wars by creating a balance of France,Germany and England!!! Brexit will be dangerous!!!

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Vagelis Priftis
      Sound logic EXCEPT you neglected to consider that ONLY France & Germany have waged war to conquer Europe over the last 2 or so centuries. If they decide to revert to form again – the UK will NOT come to the rescue AGAIN!

  23. avatar
    Myron Kanakis

    so many comments,none told the right thing.Germany should be out of e.u .
    They failed to occupy europe with the guns they did it with the euro currency…

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      So do we. The Treaty of Rome was great unfortunately the Movement of workers (with jobs to go into) was undermined and the over generous social system in the UK caused unsustainable mass immigration. Too many to integrate successfully or to build the required infrastructure for. The UK is crowded and this must be recognised.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      ofcourse you do but us Brits dont stuff the EU and all who stay in it

  24. avatar
    Peter Castermans

    Britisch election system is broken.
    Tories : + 2% votes = + 3,4% seats
    Labour: +5% votes= – 4% seats.

    The positive thing is that jester Farage only gets 1 seat with 12,6% while nick clegg still holds 8 seats with 7,8%. (still not democrtic though)

    • avatar
      Steve P

      Farage is a national hero who is getting more and more popular.The tories won on the back of the EU vote thats how many want out and i carnt wait to leave

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Tullio Colombo
      Ah, you do not care for democracy and freedom of speech then?

    • avatar
      Steve P

      no thank you we want out

    • avatar
      Xisco Beltran

      It’s up to them… But! Why so long for the referendum… 2017 seems to be too far away. If they stay will be Ok and if they leave will be ok too. People seems to think that this will be the solution for all the problems, others that this will be a complete disaster… nothing it’s going to happen, whether they stay or not.
      I have many British friends living around, some of them from the school time. I’m not going to stop having them as friends because the borders moves once more. Actually, I think is not that the biggest question about the EU, the question soon will be: Who wants to stay?

    • avatar
      Steve P

      Sorry be disastrous if we stay ,get us out now we have no infjuence and get nothing out of it but mass immigration and criminals.Also just looking at some of the posts not many british on here saying stay ,its mainly euro nationals saying stay i wonder why that is.

  25. avatar
    Pantelis Kotatis

    UK DOES NOT BELONG EVEN NEVER BELLONGS TO EU.. IT EAS AN ISLAND AND ALWAYS AGAINST EUROPE AND FOR IMPERIALISM AND ONLY FOR USA.. SO OUT AND VERY VERY QUICKLY AND HARRY UP!
    They have nothing to do with EU.. just as tourist and jus as friends to the Europeans are good..

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Your right the UK has stood firm against Social Facism Twice in the 20th Century.

  26. avatar
    Pantelis Kotatis

    UK DOES NOT BELONG EVEN NEVER BELLONGS TO EU.. IT WAS AN ISLAND AND ALWAYS was and is AGAINST EUROPE AND they are only FOR IMPERIALISM AND ONLYFOR TO SERVE USA AND THE USA PLANS AGAINST EUROPE…. SO OUT AND VERY VERY QUICKLY AND HARRY UP to leave out of EU!
    They have nothing to do with EU.. just as touristS and just as friends to the Europeans are good..

  27. avatar
    Katrin Mpakirtzi

    Oxford universities scientiest and progress myst be Europe’s futyre…academies scholia not only money. The Spirit of Europe are goid relations not whose get more money and . Atomik spirit of unusless thinks

  28. avatar
    Martin Unterholzner

    Obviously, it is up to the British people to decide, whether they would like to stay or leave. Even though I think that a British exit would be a lose-lose situation, I am a strong supporter of their right to decide upon this fundamental issue. Probably a big factor in this emotional debate is the lack of a European identity.
    Frankly, I think that for all EU countries the advantages of their membership outweigh the disadvantages in the long run.
    The 21th century poses major challenges such as climate change, massive tax evasion, hundreds of thousands of refugees, and the terrible security situation in Eastern Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.
    Those challenges require us European to stand firmly together and finally act as a community.

    • avatar
      Robert

      But surely for the UK beefing up borders insulates it from all those tesions and the refugee/migrant crisis by using the rump EU as a buffer state.

    • avatar
      keith jones

      Please what advantages of staying in? losing jobs is a myth so don’t tell me lies about that one, we have always been able to go and live and holiday abroad so that wouldn’t change. There is nothing but debt austerity and foreign criminals being allowed while we suffer.

      We do not need the eu never have done and never will. Lets be friends but leave politics out of it.

  29. avatar
    vondaniken

    if they do we all should start learning deutsch and francais :D

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Vondaniken
      German yes, French no – they do not have the power to dominate the EU like Germany can.

    • avatar
      vondaniken

      i absolutely agree with you brother european integration it the word

  30. avatar
    TJ Todorov

    Yes, please! We need someone to demonstrate the wrong construction and development of the EU.

  31. avatar
    Francio Marco

    In a long period term they can’t compete with the economic power of China, Russia, India, Brazil alone so they won’t never leave UE. The promise of a referendum is only political campaign.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Francio Marco
      In a short period of time, the UK could create a COMMONWEALTH UNION – same lanigae, same laws, same Queen.

    • avatar
      sdjfkl

      In the long-term no country in Europe can compete with China or India. Europe is doomed. It’s economy is absolute crap. It’s future demographics are the worst in the world. It’s undemocratic. It has lots of corruption. It’s ridiculous slow moving when it comes to policy adoption. It’s an old, ageing / dying dinosaur.

      At least if the UK leaves the EU it can become more nimble and efficient again. It can completely lower taxes to undercut EU FDI, and with free-control over the it’s own currency it can more easily wield monetary policy as a reflection of it’s economy than the EU can ever dream of doing. No the UK won’t be a global power in the long-term if it’s out of the EU. But no European country (including the EU) will be a global power in the long-run. It’s declining and it’s declining fast according to all projections. At least the UK however will be able to do well for itself and remain relatively competitive if it leaves the sinking ship early.

  32. avatar
    Salvius Vesuvino

    The America come help on the Europeans wars because they thought they coul be the next target, only that.

  33. avatar
    Frankie Pérussault

    Yes, this is how I see it too.

    • avatar
      Frankie Pérussault

      I mean GB should get out as soon as possible. EU President Juncker is promoting the idea of a continental army, a true EU army. We need to join forces on the defence of continental Europe. GB does not understand what a continent means. They have always regarded the “common market” as some still call it, as a “market”, some kind of club where you tell others what to do. The EU to me is a FEDERATION of like minded folks. Let GB leave us and let us federate.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      EU Army perhaps run from the same place as the European Central Bank? This is one of the elements that concerns the UK. Fourth Reich.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Danny Young
      Bravo!
      WELL SAID!

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Those who cry out for an EU army clearly have no experience of military matters. Just who will be in overall control of this army? Any force needs a clear and defined command and control system overseen by a strong government.
      The EU has neither the experience or the political cohesion to be trusted with something as dangerous as an army. God help the planet if it ever happens

    • avatar
      sdjfkl

      haha an EU army. An EU army officially means your nation is no longer an independent sovereign nation. He who controls the army controls the nation, controls your nations outlook of the world (foreign policy), and controls your nations people.

      You’ll never ever see the USA do this. This is because the US is a superpower, and will remain a superpower for a long-time to come along with a rising China (and potentially rising India). The EU on the other-hand isn’t a superpower and won’t be a superpower. I guess all the Euro nations are getting desperate though, all trying to remain relevant. But it doesn’t matter. No matter what Europe does it just can’t compete and remain competitive anymore. All projections indicate it’s only going to continue declining in power and relevance on the global stage. EU attempts are futile, especially since they’re causing more harm than good. Even your stupid monetary policy has caused more damage than good. The only winner so far from it has been Germany. Why continually destroy your nations in the process for a lost cause? If the UK gets out it can avoid this and any more damage that’s going to occur.

      I’m not from the UK (or EU), however I hope the UK can get out early, and with the use of strong and smart economic policies it can remain competitive and establish a niche position within the worlds rapidly changing economy.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Giacomo Lorenzo Volli
      Good idea, although perhaps stated impolitely.
      BTW, it is zealots like you from countries that perform badly in the TI corruption tables that frighten me and many others in the UK because of your blind faith in a political EU system that is corrupt and inferior to that on offer in the UK.

    • avatar
      mike

      yes!

  34. avatar
    Salvius Vesuvino

    I only have sorry for Scotish, but they had chosed what they wanted. They forgot the murder of its Queen, Isabel. So Sad.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Roberto López Gallardo
      The UK was never allowed to be a core part of the EU, that’s why France stopped the UK from joining the foundling EU TWICE.

      I believe that the EU is a good idea BUT not in its current French/Latin corrupt incarnation.

  35. avatar
    Gatis Gailitis

    That woukd be a very short sighted decision. Sure Britain makes a lot if products and had great trade influence but cutting ties with EU would mean some money glow would be redirected away from GB. They’re not special. Germany has got more economic influence and Scandinavia has got more oil and gas. Trade deals would be at risk.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK operates a Trade Deficit with the EU of 79%. That means the EU sells 79% more to the UK than the UK buys from them. I think the EU would not want this to be affected.

    • avatar
      Marcel

      When did ignorance become a point of view?

      The EU isn’t needed for trade, never has been, never will be!

      Not a single trade deal would be at risk, stop making up this antidemocratic (pro-EU is antidemocratic) nonsense.

  36. avatar
    Phil Stephens

    Seems you lot have no clue. .We give more money to the Poxey EU than any other Country. .Soon you won’t have a Country. .IT WILL BE THE EUROPEAN STATE.

    • avatar
      Carls white

      Exactly! I wonder if all these people saying that britain should “GTFO” or “Go and don’t come back!” or “Yes! we want rid of Britain because they were never apart of EU” will still be saying such things without £8 billion of British tax payers payers money bailing them out or funding their infrastructures?

  37. avatar
    Steve Marchant

    Hey, people. I am British and do NOT want to leave the EU. I am ashamed at some of the eurosceptic outpourings from politicians. I am proud to be European and thin it as astonishing achievement that we have al held together in the last 70 years. We’re not all bad !!!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      No we are not, but we sit in a halfway house with the EU, neither in nor out. The UK needs to decide to either leave or become a full member including adopting the Euro.

    • avatar
      Carls white

      The EU and Europe are two totally different things.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Steve Marchant
      Hi people, I am British and I ashamed of people like ‘Steve Marchant’ ignoring the undemocratic and corrupt institution that is the EU. I am proud to be British and a member of the Commonwealth and NATO.

      NATO has kept the peace for the last 70 years in Europe – REMEMBER the EU did NOT exist 70 years ago.

      NATO will stop the BLOOD BROTHERS (France and Germany – the 2 nations responsible for ALL pan-Western-European war over the last 2 centuries) from warring again.

    • avatar
      Marcel

      Steve, you really don’t like democracy, do you?

    • avatar
      Gary Barnacle

      If you get made redundant you will soon change your point of view, when you find like me that you cant get a job because you don’t speak polish, I went for a job at a large company, I lasted 2 days as the whole shift, including team leaders and supervisors only spoke polish, not one of them could speak English, they had to keep getting somone from the office to translate, it was ok during the day, but when the office closed at 05:30, I was unable to be told what I was required to do.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      moron and a traitor if your european go live there we dont want people like you

  38. avatar
    Doina Vintila

    With England or no the EU find them way. That mean doesn,t meter. They want only economic advantage nothing else metter…..

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Doina Vintila
      The UK is the 2nd biggest EU donor.

      The UK is the world’s 2nd biggest charity donor.

      The UK has the biggest of all EU armed forces and is prepared to go to war to help NATO/EU members, perhaps even your country.

      The UK is sick and tired of propping up poor, UNGRATEFUL and corrupt Club Med or ex-Communist bloc countries that do NOT understand democracy, ‘rule of law’, fairness and are UNAWARE of the biased news and propaganda spouted by the EU and Euronews.

      Please do some research before posting silly comments.

    • avatar
      blugalf

      @Tarq

      |The UK is the 2nd biggest EU donor.

      Well duh, it’s the second largest economy among the net contributors. Take the trouble of fact checking just who pays most into the EU /per head/. That’s the only figure with at least some significance. Anything else is like comparing China to Switzerland on absolute GDP.

      |The UK is the world’s 2nd biggest charity donor.

      There is an appropriate word here, I think it starts with a B and ends with something like ULLSHÌT. How is it that it doesn’t hurt to bend one’s mind into believing such nonsense? If you want to compare dìcks, at least do it in a way that is not completely inane.

      |The UK has the biggest of all EU armed forces and is prepared to go to war to help NATO/EU members, perhaps even your country.

      Ha ha, right, and the other European NATO members obviously aren’t prepared. They signed the NATO contract just for fun and anyway, they have no armed forces worth speaking of. Because, you know, they just don’t.

      Do you even try and think before posting? Do you even have one 10th of a clue how the defence forces of the large EU members really compare?

      |The UK is sick and tired of propping up poor, UNGRATEFUL and corrupt Club Med or ex-Communist bloc countries that do NOT understand |democracy, ‘rule of law’, fairness and are UNAWARE of the biased news |and propaganda spouted by the EU and Euronews.

      |Please do some research before posting silly comments.

      Dear me. It’s one thing to spout utter nonsense, it’s another thing to spout nonsense and then sign it with a last word such as this.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Blugalf
      Your tendentious waffle amuses me dear knave. I shall engage you with fact, intellect and merriment for I doth love jousting with ne’er do wells such as thee.

      Luxembourg pays a lot more per capita as an EU donor BUT the EU could easily cope with the loss of the paltry sum Luxembourg donates to the EU BUT the EU would definitely miss the billions upon billions of sterling the UK donates to the EU.

      As regards the UK being the 2nd biggest national charity giver, please CHECK the link below:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governments_by_development_aid

      I bid you adieu dear scoundrel of scatology, idoliser of inexactitude.

      Always remember, you’ve been ‘Tested, Jested and Bested!’

    • avatar
      blugalf

      @tarq You cant seriously believe this clownish blather of yours is going to get you anywhere?

      Luxembourg, right. Of course, head on some list you stumbled upon but can’t interpret properly. I really don’t expect you to be able to put Luxembourg’s GDP or EU contribution into perspective, but that’s irrelevant at this point.
      Your “billions upon billions” stack has 3 single layers, hooray. That’s about how much the UK ‘donates’ – what a silly word. It’s a rather modest sum in view of UK’s size in population and economy.

      It’s a quarter of one percent of the UK GDP.

      Something like 5% of the EU’s budget. It’s a really stupid notion to believe the loss of UK contributions would leave any kind of dramatic hole… I’ve explained it in a comment somewhere else here, go look it up. Really I can’t be asked to keep reiterating the obvious to you lot.

      Priceless. That’s development aid, and only government spending at that. Are you aware of the fact that charity is not the same as development aid, and both are given by other entities than government? Have you taken the overall public spending ratio into account? Nah, I guess such menial issues would not trouble you in your drivelling quest of finding a list where the UK shows up near the top so you can pretend you’re the greatest.

      And of course, they’re absolute numbers again. Are you lot really that desperate? As in having to ride on the ‘benefit’ of a large populace as if that were any merit at all? Oh look, France gives more than Norway, all hail the French! Or maybe we should all kowtow the Chinese and adopt their way of life, after all they’re #1 in more things than you can count, if you conveniently ignore the fact that their pop count is way >1bn.
      Get your head around it, this way of looking at most data is completely misleading. Break it down to percentage of GDP, or to capita, factor in some other data that really needs to be considered here and you have something even resembling a point. Big countries give more than small countries, eh? No şhìt, Sherlock. That gives each of you wannabe-bígdìck halfwits precisely ZERO leverage.

      Only in your mind, my very young padawan. Keep up the good humour though, as a clown you’re not all that bad.

  39. avatar
    Klaas Brumann

    Even public relations consultant David Cameron will struggle to sell the fruits of his “renegotiation” to the hostile British press and those members of his parliamentary group who really want to leave the EU. To those who want to leave the EU, no renegotiation can be good enough.

    Please answer my survey on the EU and Brexit http://iitm.be/UKxit

  40. avatar
    JP Faure

    Any sensible business person whose company does cross-border trade will tell you that leaving the EU would equal economic suicide. Cameron is (was) scared by UKIP and Rule-Britannia backbenchers and he’s on the safe side now; but he’ll have to stick to his referendum… Mobility is not negotiable. It started 6 mio years ago and it will never stop. So, best is to accompany it. TOGETHER. And top the cake with a sweet cherry: PEACE.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @JP Faure
      I am sorry BUT many major academics and think-tanks have stated that if the UK leaves the EU, in some instances [not all] it may actually be beneficial to the UK to do so.

      BTW, I care not for the thoughts of ‘sensible business persons’ who are driven by the ‘Business Before Beings’ ethic.

    • avatar
      blugalf

      | leaving the EU would equal economic suicide

      There’s leaving for good as in complete detachment in any way, shape or form, a leap back into the 1700s – a foolish daydream entertained only by a few pityable cretins who have very little besides their nationality to help them define their existence. This would indeed be economic suicide, and it’s not going to happen.

      Then there’s the ‘eurosceptic’ Brit vision on things. Formally be a member of a ‘reformed’ EU, aka an EU in which the Brits are special; unhampered access to the common goods and services market as like now, no trade barriers as like now, free movement of goods, services and people as in now, barring however arbitrary, unilateral vetoes from Westminster; no more regulations from Brussels governing such niggardly issues as quality and environmentnal standards, workforce rights, health care, retirement, public subsidiaries etc, unless of course they’re enacted amd deemed necessary in Westminster. Unidirectially, they will also apply to Brits and UK companies abroad mind you, because the UK way of doing things is, quite naturally, the right one… you catch my drift. Also a pipe dream, of somewhat more subtle foolishness, and not going to happen either.

      Then there’s the pragmatic scenario – UK tries to establish a relationship similar to that of Switzerland, which is not formally a member but de facto in in more respects than out. This will however give rise to some serious conflicts, after all Switzerland is of tiny weight overall and it is more or less the only exception as of now. The body of countries forming the remaining EU will probably find it very hard to all allow for a precedence where a big country gets to cherry pick and arrange for a special relationship in such a way just because it’s got a large number of clueless loudmouths and nationalists. It’s difficult to base actual politics on the diffuse antipathy of a crowd of semi-illiterate chavs and a gang of oldtimers who can’t let go of the WW II thing and still believe they singlehandedly defeated the nazis.

  41. avatar
    Colin Moon

    Yes, unless reform is possible. Only reform i want though is trade only union no political /social engineering elements whatsoever

  42. avatar
    Eberhard M. Bartelmess

    The question would be how and under which terms the United Kingdom would withdraw from the EU…?
    None of the British eurosceptics has ever declared what exactly they think is to become of the Polish, Slovakian, Latvian etc etc EU citizens who have made their lives in Britain? What about the three million or so Brits who live elsewhere in the EU.
    Above all: if this is perceived as a hostile withdrawal all sorts of harmful implications on the relations with Britain are possible. ..

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      1,800,000 UK citizens have moved to EU countries since 1997, either to retire, open businesses or work in jobs paying more than the minimum. 5,700,000 EU citizens have in that time moved to the UK.
      Most parties, including UKIP, agree that if the UK left those residing and working in the UK who are not living on benefits could stay. The proviso being that this was reciprocal. Spain and Portugal I imagine would not mind retaining the UK retirees who have purchased houses and spend their money in those countries.

    • avatar
      Rolymo

      If the EU collapses under it’s own inadequacies you will suddenly be faced with all that and a great deal more, What then ?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Eberhard M. Bartelmess
      So if the UK decides to leave the EU, the ever-so gentile and peace-loving EU will initiate a TRADE-WAR against the UK?!

      What kind of ‘club/union’ threatens its members if they want to leave!

      Sounds more like a Reich to me.

      BTW, millions of the 3 million Brits that ‘live’ on the continent are encouraged to do so – Portugal and Spain in particular actively attract British pensioners to their countries so that the very presence of retired Brits can boost their feeble economies.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      and that concerns us why what hostilities could the eu do to us,and migrants who live here apply for citizenships and fail vice versa for uk-expats they want to live in other countries have to do same

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Christian Weale
      NEWS ALERT!
      Polls are not always accurate and can change – QUICKLY!

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Last poll suggested a hung parliament….

    • avatar
      Steve P

      christian dont believe the polls there always loaded i dont know anyone who wants to stay in the EU

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      That’s the problem the EU doesn’t care about it’s 2nd largest Net Contributor and the most populated larger member country. Such attitudes is what is turning citizens of the UK off of the EU

  43. avatar
    Erich Scheffl

    They shall leave. They are too “empiristic”. They think that they are alone. Keep them alone. This is, when one doesn’t fit into a group.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Erich Scheffl
      Hmmm, you seem a tad intolerant mein Oberleutnant.

  44. avatar
    Chalks Corriette

    The whole of Europe needs to unite if we are to compete in a globalized world with the likes of India, China, Indonesia and others… Too much in-fighting means we have not got our eye on the global game with these big players…… United we are stronger, devided we shall be part of China in next to no time at all (China is used here as a metaphor for what/whom ever we end up a part of)……

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Chalks Corriette
      Even if the UK stays – the EU is still too small in terms of population and geography to compete with India, Russia, Latin America, ASEAN, NAFTA etc.

      The EU needs a fundamental reform – less Franco/Latin-based and more Northern/Angl-Saxon-based.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Chalks Corriette
      Even if the UK stays – the EU is still too small in terms of population and geography to compete with India, Russia, Latin America, ASEAN, NAFTA etc.

      The EU needs a fundamental reform – less Franco/Latin-based and more Northern/Anglo-Saxon-based.

  45. avatar
    Gvasco

    Theory shouldn’t really as that will backfire tremendously bad for the British economy. Most likely it will also bring with it a new referendum to Scottish independence as most Scotish seem to be pro EU.

    if they will or not that is a different matter, personally I hope they don’t but a lot of British are for leaving the EU, ignorantly I might add, as they’re constantly fed the negative parts of it without seeing the benefits of the EU partenership.

    As for the position of the EU certain things would probably get done more easily European wide without the British being there to constantly undermine the EU parliament. However, since the EU is about union it is not in its interest to see the UK sepperate.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Gvasco
      Please note NOT all economists believe that the effect of a BREXIT would be bad for the UK.

      As regards ignorance:

      Why should the UK give away £3b/yr of fish to the likes of Spain or Portugal – would the French give away £3b/yr of Champagne or the Germans give away £3b/yr of hops?

      Why does the EU pay for 400 UK University History/Politics posts where the recipient must NOT be anti-EU?

      Why does the UK have NO elements of an EU-state in its realms despite it being the oldest democracy whilst micros-state Luxembourg has?

      Why should the UK adopt inferior and less-democratic politics when compared to the corrupt and anti-democratic EU?

      Why should the UK take orders from France and [MOSTLY] Germany – the nations responsible for the most violence and wars across Europe for the last 2 centuries?

      Why should the UK and indeed the EU watch the anti-Anglo-Saxon ‘Euronews’ TV news channel that was specifically created to counter UK and USA influence?

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Given that the EU has a 79% Trade Surplus with the UK the affect of the UK leaving if Barriers of Trade were attempted would be worse on EU Member Countries. The EU would also lose it’s 2nd largest Net Contributor.

    • avatar
      Frances Fox

      Scotland will have to realize that if they become Independent joining the EU they will have to find the money to pay to the EU not the rest of the UK.

    • avatar
      Steve P

      @gvasco please enlighten me on the benefits of remaining in the EU please because us brits really dont see it and dont say trade thats rubbish we import more than we export

  46. avatar
    Serge Lauer

    Britain has an unified Royal Army but he said no to an European Army one !
    which explains already his dis-interests for Europe ! I think the Eurozone needs to get stronger in many areas!
    YES Britain should leave because of its selfinterests !!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The problem for us after our sacrifices for Europe in the 20th century is who would control any EU Army, where would be it’s headquarters. To answer this where is the ECB located and who in discussions between the EU and Greece appears to be calling the shots? Can you see the problem?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Serge Lauer
      The EU as-is is an exercise in the self-interest of Germany and occasionally France – all the other EU countries don’t count as far as Germany is concerned.

  47. avatar
    Peter Josika

    There are essentially two ways forward. A Europe of multiple speeds allowing some countries or regions to deepen integration and others to select their degree of integration according to their needs OR a continuation of the current one speed process built on constant compromises that nobody is happy with. I prefer Option 1, but I fear we will see more of the latter. With or without Cameron.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      You cannot have a two-tier EU, not long term. Every country would need to become a full and active member.

    • avatar
      Keith

      No thank you I think the euro has do e enough damage to the Southern European countries we do t want thag false currency thank you but no thanks. EU is in debt up to its eyeballs thanks to the euro

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Philip Sharp
      Like Australia or NZ or Canada?

      Don’t be silly!

    • avatar
      Keith

      What to trade with whoever we want. We could make our own trade block and crush the eu if fact I beleive that will end up the way.

  48. avatar
    Tony Stansfield

    We should remain with the EU, however some adjustments could and should be made especially to benefits and housing of immigrants.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Tony Stansfield
      Such adjustments would NOT reduce the traumatic immigration levels that the EU is foisting upon the UK.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Adjustments were promised in the 1975 referendum, never happened

    • avatar
      Steve P

      never going to happen tony get us out ,its a failing state anyway look at greece

  49. avatar
    Peter Stephens

    Germany will not let us leave the EU and Cameron has not got the balls to stand up to her

  50. avatar
    Nigel Daff

    No … No … No … I sincerely hope that the UK will STAY in the EU in the future. As a european citizen I really believe we in the united EU countries make a stronger argument for trade and macro economics with the world like the united states of america. Together we ARE stronger.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Nigel Daff
      Don’t talk daft!
      The EU is too small demographically and geographically to be a major player in the years to come, its influence has been waning for decades.

      The UK would be better served in a COMMONWEALTH UNION – same language, similar laws, same Queen and LESS corruption.

      It would take 3-5 years to fully create as there is less cultural garbage to wend through as is the case with the current version of the EU.

    • avatar
      Keith

      Sorry but us British know better. This is the start of the end for the eu. And good riddance.

  51. avatar
    Nick Megoran

    We need to be a Global trading nation again, not be tied to this borderline communist bloc

  52. avatar
    Stefano Nasini

    They have been talking about this by the last 20 years. When are they going to take their final decision? Perhaps in another 20 years?

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      When we finally get a free and fair referendum. We have been asking for this for over 20 years.

  53. avatar
    Rudi Spoljarec

    I prefer not , but in any case it is not important for economics. British will always intend to unite economics with USA , rather than with EU. It is enough if they stay in NATO together with EU and USA.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Rudi Spoljarec
      Good post.

  54. avatar
    Rüdiger Lohf

    70 years after WW2 our countries live very close together in peace and we need an organisation that gives a forum to all european countries instead of negotiating treat rules with each country by bilateral contracts. Of course Britain is part of the peaceful and wonderful Europe we live in.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Rüdiger Lohf
      Not if said organisation is a soft-power version of the German Reich.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Christiane Vermoortel
      Your disdain for a country that is concerned by the lack of democracy in the EU, is a reason why the UK wants to leave the EU.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      We pay for the right to be a nuisance

  55. avatar
    Claudiu Popa

    For the countries to survive and keep their culture, they mus depart from EU. The ideals behind EU was, is and will be grreat, but when it comes time to apply it, they fail. I’m up for regional Alliances, not continental.

    • avatar
      Keith

      50 countries in Europe only 27 in EU. EU is not Europe. Never will be wither.

  56. avatar
    Steve Garner

    Never mind the UK leaving the EU I’m thinking of leaving the UK, not sure I could take another 5 years of these uncaring bastards.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Steve Garner.
      The UK is the 2nd largest charity giver in the world.
      The UK is the 2nd largest donor to the EU.
      The UK gives £3b/year of its fish to poor countries like France and Spain.

      The UK would be pleased if under-informed types like yourself departed these shores…

  57. avatar
    Lawrence Warwick

    It may be geographically part of Europe but that’s where it ends I for one am English not European I would like to decide that for myself and not be told what I gave to be.. Thanks.

  58. avatar
    Paul Smith

    Who gives a toss what dish face says. But we all know more ill and disabled will be killed by tory bastard cuts

  59. avatar
    GetOutOfEurope

    We fought for freedom in Europe, not to become ruled over by the same country we defeated twice.

    The more urgent question to consider, is will Marine le Pen win in France? She has pledged to pull France out of the euro and ultimately France out of the EU. She means it and will do it if given the electoral mandate. If that happens there won’t be an EU to leave, and I very much hope it does.

  60. avatar
    Roman Majcher

    It would be the saddest thing! Do not leave the EU, we all need to reform it so it works for all of us. Leaving is just a failure for nations of Europe, and giving up a great project, just because some of the politicians manage it badly. No, definitely not!

    • avatar
      Keith

      Can’t reform a dictatoeship wake up and smell the coffee and see what the EU really is.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK is the 2nd Largest Net Contributor to the EU. France makes a fortune out of the Common Agricultural Policy, the largest expenditure in the EU budget. Get Real

    • avatar
      Keith

      UK and Germany csrry the EU France have a lot of say but contribute 3rd gen any 1st UK 2nd where will you find the extra 15beuros you won’t get from UK. Its a sinking ship.

  61. avatar
    Robert Platten

    The main country that will lose by UK leaving is Germany they are going be paying all of the bills for eu the 30 million UK a day comes back and feed the one million UK people using food banks.

  62. avatar
    blugalf

    Up you ante, UK, put your money, where… well, you know.

    But please, make sure you see it through this time.

    Too good to be part? Fair enough, and fairwell. We wish you no ill. Just don’t come back anytime soon.

  63. avatar
    Badmus Quam

    AT ROBERT,U FAIL TO REALISE THAT GERMAN IS RESILIENCE ECONOMICALLY,STRONG POLITICALLY ,SOCIALLY VIABLE AND RELEVANT IN WORLD POLITICS.

  64. avatar
    David Johnson

    The UK pays 55 million a day in to the EU for what ? 75% of our powers have been given to them so we can’t make our own decisions. We did not vote to be in the EU and are entitled to one . Generations have fought and died in wars to keep it from foreign rule . The EU takes more from us then we get back

  65. avatar
    Martin Scrivner

    Everybody with a Uk passport living abroad should be able to vote. As this was not the case for the general elections. If you have been living abroad for more than 15 years you did not have the right to vote….

  66. avatar
    Bastian

    The British membership in the EU is ambiguous: On the one hand it helps to subject Europe to the global interests of the US (see NSA, NATO etc.), on the other hand Britain helps to keep the EU more democratic (fighting Brussels centralism).

  67. avatar
    Rob

    Yes, because we need to leave the political union of the EU, take power back to the British government, and prosper through the negotiation of free trade agreements without the heavy hand of EU law holding us back.

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      Your government is incompetent, the UK was bankrupt before the EEC and it still is. You will be subjected to increasing inhumanity and the continuation of Thatcherism. And you deserve it.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      ON what basis? The UK has a 79% Trade Deficit with the EU and is it’s 2nd largest Net Contributor. If the UK left the damage economically to EU countries and EU coffers would be sever.

  68. avatar
    ironworker

    Aye! There’s no room in Europe for colonial (superior vs inferior) mentality. Just for Farage rethoric and they should “rule an empire” from somewhere near world sphincter.

  69. avatar
    Spencer Cotton

    THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Spencer Cotton
      I have to say I concur with your sentiments although I am not too supportive of the profanity.

  70. avatar
    Dave Smith

    THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

  71. avatar
    Carls white

    Yes, we need to rule our own country! We need to create a more stable immigration system and we need to put British tax payers money into Britain not the EU where it is used to bail out every other country but our own!

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      Really? You are misinformed.

      The UK borrows £8 billion a year from the ECB at 0% interest.

      The UK ‘bailed out’ Ireland and charged them 6% interest on the LOAN. Which was paid back with interest.

      You deserve to live in the country you just ruined.

  72. avatar
    Steve Thornton

    Yes without a doubt. Why give the right to govern our own country to another political union of who we had no say who was in it? The people of Great Britain didn’t even have a choice in joining it! We are being sold out! Get us out of it now before it’s too late!

  73. avatar
    Badmus Quam

    FRM MY OBSERVATION OF THIS PLATFORM,MAJORITY SAYS NO BUT CAMEROON IS PRAGMATICALLY SILENT ABT EU VS UK.WHY?

  74. avatar
    Melanie Marchant-was Terry

    Definitely not! Tired of listening to the regurgitated lies and propaganda about Europe. Course we’ll prosper in isolation we have such a thriving manufacturing sector…..oh no we don’t do we Maggie destroyed that!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK sells us 79% more than we sell them already. It also blocks unilateral agreements with other countries including the Commonwealth which is the worlds largest trading block and with whom the UK has more in common (language/institutions etc). We also have one of the largest Manufacturing Industries in the Developed World and are the 6th largest economy.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Correct should have said “The EU sells us 79% more” at the beginning

    • avatar
      Keith

      Wrong labour destroyed that.

  75. avatar
    John Harriman

    We are only a dumping ground, we should go it alone

    • avatar
      Nigel Jones

      i agree with ya

  76. avatar
    Barrie Grieve

    As a SNP voter, better together, RIGHT?

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Bit of a difference between a 400+ year old economic and political union than a 42 year trade block.
      BTW did you hear John Swinney last night on QT “SNP want full fiscal control but also want to retain the Barnett Formula” Thought the SNP wanted to split not to keep the credit cards and twice the money?

  77. avatar
    David Stanley

    I was not asked if I wanted to ne tuled by Brussels, a couple of elite MP’s signed our country over to the EU without our consent.

  78. avatar
    Nigel Jones

    Could be leaving the EU ASAP

  79. avatar
    Vinko Rajic

    NO , I hope NEVER ! Britain is one of the most important countries in EU . Britain is very important for EU development and for the most for our democracy .

  80. avatar
    Jimbo

    I must say it astounds me how so many non British citizens have so much of an opinion about whether we should stay in or leave Europe, i mean you all seem to know exactly what is right for our country, you know the country that our parents, grand parents and great grand parents fought so hard to give us, to allow us to run our country without being dictated to, with pathetic laws that see criminals treated better than their victims because of there human rights!!
    Here’s an idea, how about we stay in and fully commit to joining the eurozone, but every member has to be treated the same and put the same amount of money in, also has to offer the same standard of living in each country; at your tax payers expense of course. Then how about Each member has to offer all Europeans the same standard of NHS care and the same social housing and the same benefits system, at your tax payers expense of course, and how about everyone is taxed at the same rate as we currently are, I don’t just mean income tax, I mean council tax, bedroom tax, car tax and VAT at 20%, when this happens then you can have an opinion, until then why don’t you just let us make our own decision as to wether we should be in or out.

    • avatar
      Frances Fox

      Your message is so right. The Conservatives signed the first lot of treaties then New Labour signed treaties all detrimental to our Country and it is about time they admit they were wrong and bring back Britain’s OWN CONTROL. Both Parties can join together to do this and even the Liberal Democrats should do so as all three of them voted Britain to have OPEN BORDERS in 2004 and look at the mess that has made.

    • avatar
      Keith

      Your right but we ain’t leaving Europe we are part of Europe and I love euroow it’s just the shitty EU club we are leaving not Europe. .

  81. avatar
    Peter Schellinck

    UK is part of the European Union. Looking at the past decades at the level of fundamental values, the European Union has achieved peace, democracy and respect for human rights in a large and growing part of the continent of Europe. The UK’s secession would weaken this transformative achievement, which in wider Europe cannot be taken for granted (Russia’s aggression in Ukraine is a reminder of this). United the EU still only represents 8% of the global population.

    It has been observed that the UK has been working as promoter of more effective and enhanced (not diluted) EU policies in key single market sectors where there is important work in progress. These include, notably: the single market for services (across the board), financial markets, energy and climate change and the digital sector.

    Overall, the evidence supports a common-sense view that British interests are best served by continuing membership of the EU, combined with pushing ahead with reform processes, while retaining its important opt-outs. The essential point is that this conclusion is not a government or party-political statement; it is based on the evidence of a comprehensive collection of voluntary submissions by well-informed and independent stakeholders.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      A good response. What has been left out here is that the UK now sits on the 2nd Tier of EU growth and discussion and as a result is having some of its major industries and rights impinged upon with very little say. Opt Outs are being limited and agreements not honoured (such as those achieved by Tony Blair in return for the UK given up a significant percentage of it’s rebate) by the EU.

      In addition the real concerns of UK citizens are being ignored, not just by the EU but also by its own politicians who are ideologically committed to the EU and it’s expansion at any cost to the nation state.

      In addition the EU has supported and funded a number of comprehensive studies which have considerable errors and only use data in support of the EU. The latest being the republishing of the debunked CReAm Report which was originally published in 2013.

  82. avatar
    Fred

    YES, they should leave so we and the rest of the EU can finally work on our European superstate without disturbing party poopers.
    They have slowdown the european integration long enough.

    Finally I would be happy to elect a european president, but with UK in the European Union a real political union would never be possible.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Germany has been trying to integrate Europe for a century now.

  83. avatar
    ironworker

    Limbo politics. UK want out of EU, Scotland want out of UK (brexit or no brexit) and banks in case of Brexit want out of UK as well. Guess who’s the real winner ? Thatcherists ?

  84. avatar
    Dimitris Zaponis

    UK has from the beginning been with one foot out of Europe. To be honest, I believe Charles de Gaulle was right, UK doesn’t belong to the continent! But now it would be disastrous to leave EU. For both sides. And let’s not forget, that if UK leaves EU, that would give to Scotland the chance to split out and abandon England and UK would be dismantled.

  85. avatar
    Vasileios Papageorgiou

    GB should leave the EC and face the fact that the threat of a financial crisis is now mainly concerning stronger economies and not the poorest countries that have nothing to lose anymore.

  86. avatar
    Fabian Mercieca

    I am against the British exit.If Britain exits the EU,the Federalists will have more power as Britain is the biggest and most powerful nation opposing Federalism in the EU.I am a Maltese citizen and I am against more federalism in the EU.How can someday the Scandinavians have the same taxes,wages,welfare,public services and law as the Southern European nations or developing countries from the ex-Soviet Union such as Bulgaria and Romania??answer,never.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Fabian Mercieca
      I do not want the UK to leave the EU BUT the EU is too corrupt to want to change. For the EU to improve the influence of France must be de-leveraged – the French elite are too selfish to agree to such an option.

  87. avatar
    Andrew

    I say they should leave.
    The attitude of UK has always been of wanting the economic benefits with none of the responsibilities.

    It is of course their obligation to pursue the most advantageous position for their citizens, but by looking at it like this it’s clear they want less integration. Therefore, separation followed by a purely economic treaty between EU and UK would be better.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farqhuar

      @Andrew
      LOL! None of the responsibilities!

      The UK is the 2nd biggest charity-giver to the EU.

      The UK gives £3b/year of its fish to other EU countries – no other country does this.

      The UK now has millions of EU migrants on its shores, causing problems with school places, hospital beds and cohesion.

      Your idea about the purely economic treaty though was a good one.

    • avatar
      Andrew

      @Tarquin: you got your figures a bit mixed up.
      UK is 4th giver by gross amount and also the 4th by net amount(UK gives about 4.6bn, Italy about 4.7, France about 5, Germany more than 7).

      There’s no such thing as “giving” fish. That was come crap Farage dreamed when trying to pick at EU fishing policies (which awarded more than 30% of fishing quotas to the UK, more than any other state). That alone proves my point: UK wants the benefits of membership (protected quotas) but no responsibilities (the fact that others get some too).

  88. avatar
    Danny Young

    The UK has a choice to make.

    It is not one of IN (with a Negotiated Settlement) or OUT.

    It is Leave the EU and retain trading links or Stay in the EU and commit to becoming a full and active partner.

    Why do I say this? Because even if it is successful in a negotiated settlement history has shown that over time that settlement would be eroded away. In addition for the EU to truly work every member state has no choice but to become economically and politically entwined. This means using the same currency, having the same laws and have the same sovereign rulers (e.g. Brussels).

    This is the real choice for the UK and every other member state.

  89. avatar
    Tarquin Farqhuar

    @Danny Young
    In a global economy – economic entwining should NOT be limited to a part of the smallest continent in the world.

    Political entwining has meant a race to the bottom of the corruption pit – the EU now enjoys levels of corruption akin to that of Latin nations – none of which are in the TI Top 20.

    Furthermore, for true integration, the French and their ‘Verbus Diablo’ must be dropped in favour of the superior (4x bigger than French) and more widely spoken English language – the French elite might have a problem with same.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Tarquin, you are making my point for me. The UK either has to accept this, and further integration or leave. Talk of a new settlement is inane

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Danny Young
      Unfortunately, I am now of similar opinion re same.

  90. avatar
    Marie Ximena

    A referendum is democratically speaking a very good idea. In a sense it would have been preferable if every member state had had one (and I’m a EU federalist), although I understand why it wasn’t so (as it started out as a simple customs union).
    The major problem I have with the (probably) upcoming Brexit referendum is that the news coverage and the political debate around the EU are not only strongly biased (to put it politely) but also blatantly inaccurate, meaning that the Brits do not have access to decent information to base their choice on.
    Case in point: in the UK Juncker’s election was widely reported as undemocratic, corrupted and basically unacceptable. Rather, legally speaking it was a democratic breakthrough (as for the first time a direct and binding linkage was made between the European elections and the choice of the Psdt of the Commission). To make things even more absurd the election procedure was exactly the same as the one that brought Cameron into power – twice!

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Marie Ximena
      The EU election was undemocratic – it does not support 1 person 1 vote. QED.

      On the subject of ‘undemocracy’/corruption/unacceptability:

      JCJ would never be allowed to yield power in the UK given his alcohol habits, but he is allowed to do so in the EU.

      The UK is the 2nd largest EU donor – JCJ visited Ireland on his EU campaign – a country with a population smaller than London and most UK regions but he did NOT visit London, the EU’s biggest and wealthiest city or indeed anywhere in the UK to give a public campaign talk..

      On the night of the election the EU stated that the %age of people voting had not [further] declined – weeks later they admitted that was an ‘error’.

      EU-philes often cite that most of the UK’s trade is with the EU – when in fact 79% of UK trade is intra-UK and of the remaining 21% less than half and declining is with the EU – the figure is closer to 7% than 10.5% BTW.

      EU-philes forget to mention that the ‘Rotterdam effect’ distorts and amplifies the amount of trade that the UK does with the EU.

      EU-philes often forget that the UK in addition to being the EUs 2nd largest net donor gives away £3b/yr of its fish to the likes of Portugal and Spain.

      EU-philes are unaware that Euronews was specifically created to counter the Anglo-Saxon world view ergo it is a biased and arguably racist news channel.

      Clearly ‘INCONTINENT-ALISTS’ like you do not have access to decent information to base your postings on.

    • avatar
      Marie Ximena

      Last week’s UK general election did not support the 1 person 1 vote rule either. Was it undemocratic to you?

      Churchill was allowed to govern the UK for ten years, and his alcoholism was even more worrisome that Juncker’s.

      Your whole declaration about Juncker not visiting London or the UK just shows how little you understand about EU politics, and simultaneously helps me explain just how stupid Cameron’s attempt at a Juncker-evicting manoeuvre was. Juncker was a candidate for the EPP. There was no EPP-affiliated party in the UK following Cameron’s move leading to the creation of the ECR. Consequently, there was no reason at all for Juncker to visit the UK, as there were no potential voters there. His visit to Ireland was perfectly logical as voters who chose Fine Gail in the European election effectively voted for the EPP, as the party is affiliated with it. Cameron’s tantrum upon Juncker’s imminent nomination was the reaction of a teenager who realises that being dramatic and preferring to be on one’s own also means not having the privileges of being part of the group. The facts are that, had Cameron chosen to keep the Conservatives within the EPP, the European Parliament Tories’ votes would have been more than enough to prevent Juncker from being voted as the candidate of the EPP, and the Conservatives could have tilted the balance towards a less federalist candidate. You simply can’t have it all, David.

      Regarding your facts and figures: these all deserve to be publicly broadcasted, I never came close to denying that. The UK quite undeniably gives more to the EU than it receives in strictly economic terms, there’s no getting around that. (Although it has to be nuanced: the UK as a whole is a net donor, but many UK regions benefitted tremendously from the EU’s regional policies.)
      My personal view is that there is more to EU membership than economic benefits, but in order for there to be a balanced public debate about the multiform aspects of the EU there needs to be a better and more objective coverage of democracy within the EU.
      I may be a federalist, but I am far from being the delusional airhead you seem to think I am. I am fully aware that the EU suffers from a shocking lack of transparency and has a chronic democratic deficit in that the upgrading of democratic capacities clearly lags behind the gradual delegation of competences to the EU level. However, European democracy is also undeniably getting better, and has been since the Maastricht Treaty. Allowing European parties to designate candidates for the presidency of the Commission was a groundbreaking step, as it made the EU a fully parliamentarian system with accountability and nominative linkage to the directly elected Parliament. Denying that means that you are not making any effort to be objective in spite of your ideology, whereas I am.
      (Just to be clear, I am not saying that the UK must stay in the EU, it has every right to vote. And you have every right – and powerful arguments – to be against EU membership. I am just calling the Brits out, be it their politicians or their media, on their problematic bias specifically on the issue of EU democracy)

      Finally, regarding your arguments on Euronews. I follow diversified news outlets so as to inform myself, thank you very much for your concern. However, be aware that you are being biased yourself in your attack. It was indeed created in an attempt to balance out the supremacy of British media, which were the only ones to be widely read across Europe. It is consequently inherently biased, but does not hide it – pretty much every media has an editorial line, it is only healthy in a pluralist democratic system. Euronews endorses EU membership just as the Times endorses the Conservative Party, it is their prerogative if they chose to. I have no problem with Eurosceptic/Europhile media, only with non-pluralist media systems, such as is the case in the UK. My problem with the British media is that on EU issues, their is only one voice to be heard, to the point where they completely misrepresent the EU to British voters.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Marie Ximena
      Please let me CORRECT you, the UK operates 1 person 1 vote, the EU operates 1 person c12 votes as in the case of Luxembourg.

      Comparing Churchill with JCJ – are you mad?

      It doesn’t matter if there was no UK affiliate to the EPP; the fact is that JCJ DELIBERATELY ignored the UK. What about those people who are NOT Tories and would never be seen in the EPP, a political leader MUST represent those who would vote for him and those who would not, don’t you agree?

      Besides, an allegedly democratic EU should NOT seek to control or define the name or composition or the rationale of political parties – that is both FRIGHTENING and ANTI-DEMOCRATIC.

      Thanks for admitting that the UK gives far more to the EU than it gets back – but might I draw your attention to 2 points on the UK donor money to the EU that was used in certain poor UK areas that you should know about:

      1…EU sponsored projects in the UK are sleight of hand, whatever the UK gets from the EU is c50% of what it gives to the EU – at the end of the day the EU gets credit for taking the UK’s donations, approximately halving them and then dropping a few percentage points off what’s left due to corruption and [mal]administration and then finally forcing the UK to match-fund a project ‘sponsored’ by the EU – WHAT A JOKE.

      2…9 of the 10 poorest Northern EU regions are in the UK.

      Your defensive comments about Euronews are LAUGHABLE. TV News channels based in the UK are NOT allowed to be partisan eg the BBC. Unfortunately as you have stated Euronews is partisan as is France24.

      On the UK newspaper front the 2 most important newspapers in the UK viz. the Daily Mail and the Guardian are anti-EU and pro-EU respectively.

      You seem open to information – I hope you can divulge this post and think more cogently on why the UK gets a bad deal from the EU.

  91. avatar
    Harry Quinn

    If Britain leaves it would have a rippling effect across Europe, especially to major trade partners such as Ireland and France. It would damage the credibility of the EU as an ideology and as a functioning judicial body. My message to David Cameron: think about the entirety of Europe, not just Great Britain!

    • avatar
      sdjfkl

      I think Ireland would basically implode if the UK left the EU lol. Seriously though, Ireland would most likely leave too in the long-run just to remain competitive.

  92. avatar
    Al.

    It comes down to a vote in a referendum that is supposed to come up in the next couple yrs. The vote will decide in or out. A lot of people want out but give or take roughly the same figure want in. Personally I would prefer that Britain stays in. No doubting the EU needs significant reform but I believe that’s the sentiment from the continent also.

  93. avatar
    john bevegård

    hi i Think there is a democracy problem in the eu the parliament must have a stronger voice but the people of theeu must also be able to vote directly on WHOs going to be eu president or commissioner etc a direct democracy on some levels likeee switzerlandd and also indirect democracy via the parliament and commissioners from each country democracy on different levels more like the usa. but also very different of course because of our sovereign states that can collaborate. europé must be a stronger force in global World a soft Power but with a strong eu battlegroup to be deployed whenever is needed………. a green economy sustainable and a eu for the future……..go eu johnnyb.

  94. avatar
    Mudassir Zaki

    Economy of UK is already very strong. They can stand on their own without EU support.

  95. avatar
    Thomas Bryan

    If we were outside the EU now, looking in, at it’s progress, who would vote to join now? …..Then why should we stay in?

  96. avatar
    Thomas Bryan

    If we were not in the EU, and looking in at its disastrous progress from outside, who would vote to join? No one I think, so why should we stay? Don’t say trade, 3 million UK jobs may be depend on EU trade, but 7 million EU jobs depend on trade with the UK. We would trade with the EU, but on our terms, not theirs.

    • avatar
      James McManama

      The British economy is worth roughly three trillion dollars, whereas the EU economy is about four or five times that size (and that’s NOT including the contribution made by the UK). It’s simply not true to suggest that they need us more than we need them.

      Also, you seem to be implying that trading with the EU on “our terms, not theirs” would mean gaining access to the Single Market without signing up to EU rules. I’m sorry, but that’s hopelessly naive. Even if EU negotiators were willing to make that concession (and that, as they say, is a big “if”) there is no way that European businesses would allow that. Of course they want trade with the UK, but they would never allow UK companies to compete unfairly.

      We will be outside the decision-making process, but signed up to all the EU laws anyway.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @James McManama
      YOU ARE WRONG!

      In absolute terms the EU is more reliant on the UK jobs-wise than the UK is on the EU jobs-wise.

      Furthermore, over 1 million EU migrants work in the UK, thus only 2 Million UK jobs done by UK people involve EU trade whilst 8 million EU jobs involve trading with the UK.

      BTW, the UK is rarely involved in the decision-making process, despite it being the 2nd-biggest net donor to the EU + it gives £3b/yr in fish to the EU. It has nothing to do with ‘making alliances’ it has to do with Germany and France PUSHING their own agenda.

    • avatar
      James McManama

      @Tarquin Farquhar Yes, but why are you calculating in absolute terms? If exit negotiations take place, they will not be based on absolute terms but on the relative impact of the different options available. And, in relative terms, we need the EU much more than the EU needs us.

      The UK has less influence than it should in the EU because it is only half-engaged with European policymaking. Britain has roughly 10% of all MEPs in the European Parliament, yet 23 of those British MEPs belong to UKIP and have the lowest attendance record of any party in the Parliament. They can’t even be bothered to take part in votes that could REDUCE the influence of European legislation (but they’re happy to take the money – in fact, they’re happy to fiddle their expenses and take more money than they’re entitled to).

      The governing British Conservative party also pulled out of the centre-right European People’s Party, which is largely the reason David Cameron so spectacularly (and publicly) failed to block Jean-Claude Juncker as Commission President, despite Merkel and other EPP leaders being so cool towards him. There will also never be a British Conservative President of the European Commission while the Tories refuse to sit with the EPP.

      The UK is also steadily atrophying influence in the European Commission, as high-ranking British officials resign but younger Britons aren’t joining the Commission to replace them. According to the Financial Times: “Britons were often reluctant to join the Commission because of ‘constant Europe-bashing’ back home.”

      So, yes, the UK has less influence than it should. But it’s not because of “Germany and France PUSHING their own agenda”.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @James McManama
      I applaud you for admitting you were wrong in your original post I responded to, bravo!

      As regards your relative argument – that remains to be seen – if the UK leaves there could be a domino effect and there could be no-EU if not a much diminished EU, the UK could join NAFTA or indeed set up a COMMONWEALTH UNION.

      De Gaulle refused the UK entry into the EC/EU because he wanted to skew the EC/EU to France’s benefit – hence the cards are stacked against the UK WRT its influence in the EU. Take a look at the link below for proof that the UK has little influence in the EU:

      http://businessforbritain.org/2014/03/25/britains-lack-of-influence-in-the-eu-revealed/

      55 TIMES since 1996 has a UK ‘NO’ vote been ignored by the Council of Ministers – such a situation does not represent a lack of influence in the UK, it represents outright and absolute HATE for the UK situation in the EU by the other EU nations..

      BTW, the EU deserves to be ‘bashed’ on occasion as it:

      offers lower levels of democracy than the UK,
      offers higher levels of corruption than the UK,
      is anti-Anglo-Saxon eg Euronews created specifically to counter the Anglo-Saxon perspective,
      it uniquely in the EU is taxed c £3b/yr in the form of the FISH TAX.

      The whole concept of the EU is floored – the EU is far too small both demographically and geographically to be a big ‘pole’ in a multi-polar world – it will need to combine with either NAFTA or the EURASIAN UNION for it to be of any significance in a multi-polar world.

    • avatar
      James McManama

      @Tarquin Farquhar You’re wilfully misrepresenting my point. The UK is currently punching below its weight when it comes to EU policymaking, but such a situation is still preferable to having no influence at all.

      If we were outside of European Council, Parliament and Commission, then we would still pay into the EU coffers and follow EU laws as the price of Single Market access, but we would only hear about our new laws second-hand (“fax democracy”).

      As to your point about Brexit leading to the collapse of the EU (and, therefore, the Eurozone), the chaos caused by the collapse of the world’s second largest reserve currency would plunge the global economy into a crisis that would make the collapse of Lehman Brothers look like a walk in the proverbial park. The UK would not profit in a situation like this.

      And do you really think a “Commonwealth Union” is a serious proposal? You sound like you’re trying to resurrect the British Empire. You honestly believe the Indian economy is less bureaucratic and more open to external trade than the EU economy?

      As to your point about de Gaulle – if the British had joined the EEC from inception instead of forming the rival EFTA then it could have shaped the community more to its own liking. There is a lesson there: if we leave the EU, then we will be unable to shape its development. When we inevitably reapply for membership, it will again resemble something more suited to other countries’ interests. The point is: if you want to shape an organisations’ development then you can’t do it from outside.

      As for the “Business for Britain” report, it’s thoroughly misleading. There is a norm of consensus in the Council, so EU governments usually voice opposition during the negotiation phase and refrain from voting against legislation at the final voting stage. So it’s rare that votes aren’t unanimous in the Council (in 2008, for example, 128 out of 147 Council decisions were unanimous).

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @James McManama
      You wilfully confuse the collapse of the Euro with the collapse of the EU, the 2 are not 100% correlated dear chap.

      BTW, if a Brexit is considered such a dire state of affairs for the EU then the EU should stop mucking about and cede to the UK’s decent requests:

      Improve democracy, QUICKLY.

      Reduce corruption, including jailing some well known EU political [corrupt] celebs.

      Remove the ‘lose your pension if you whistle-blow on the EU’ clause cited in many EU politicos’/civil-servants’ contracts.

      Break the current EU-AXIS-DIRECTORATE of Germany and France and expand it to include the UK and Italy.

      Make English the only official language of the EU thereby reducing the disingenuous behaviour frequently exemplified by JCJ – say good things about the English in English and bad things about the English in French/German.

      Institute controlled immigration from the INCONTINENT, I as a non-white Brit am not against immigration, I just want it slowed down for a while, whilst the UK’s infrastructure etc catches up with the massive INCONTINENT-lead surge of demand.

      Give the UK its fishing grounds back – this UNIQUELY and UNFAIRLY costs the UK c£3b/yr.

      As regards a Commonwealth – setting one up would not take as long as an EU for reasons aforementioned; indeed, it would only be an economic bloc NOT a political bloc.

      PS: Your argument about demography not mattering was, to put it politely INACCURATE.

      PPS: Your argument about geography not mattering was, to put it politely INACCURATE.

  97. avatar
    Judith Mottershead

    YES WE SHOULD LEAVE IF I WANT TO BE AN EUROPEAN I WOULD GO TO EUROPE,

    • avatar
      ironworker

      Correct. I still have a question though, how U.K will keep this unprecedented economic growth curve without EU ?

  98. avatar
    EU reform- proactive

    Lets face it:

    Finally, the TOP DOWN EU cliche of “unity in diversity” has been bowled over! BOTTOM UP ”diverse unity” clearly won the majority votes- both in the UK & Scotland and should worry all EU-philes!

    What & who is the EU? Does anybody really know? Neither a federation, nor a confederation nor a parliamentary sovereign nor a commonwealth of nations or an empire state (maybe a stately empire) but rather closer to a SUZERAIN with 28 vassal states paying tribute in form of custom duties, GNI-based resources & Vat as ‘protection fee’- overseen by the EU’s HLGOR.

    Lets recap:

    It started with “The Schuman Declaration” (‘the supranational 6 ECSC: France, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg on 9 May 1950 by signing an ECONOMIC “Treaty of Paris” on 18 April 1951- each member retaining full sovereignty.

    Today:

    We have a global 70 year victory celebration in- from the west isolated- Russia (BRICS) within a divided Europe of 28 non sovereign EU members- looking on. The SUZERAIN mesmerized (“alias snake charmer”) all once sovereign states to hand over most of their sovereignty (granting one (1) initial & FINAL fudged referendum) in return for subordination. Basically, UN membership requires applicants to possess full sovereignty! Why risk to give it up in a moment of EU social delirium? Why not remain sovereign & a UN member & an “associate” with the EU?

    Maybe, the EU poker game might start with a 2015 Grexit and end with a 2017 Brexit to finally (re)write “the mother of all EU treaties” acceptable to all- by remaining fully sovereign not suzerain! Please stop the ‘provincial bickering’!

  99. avatar
    Thomas Bryan

    How can you talk about the EU and refer to democracy? The EU is an undemocratic, corrupt, unaccountable, dictatorship.You cannot vote for or against it, if people cannot see that I don’t know what to say. The only people that really benefit are politicians who are on the gravy train.

  100. avatar
    gus Engledow

    I truely wish to leave, preferably today!

  101. avatar
    andrew

    Yes, britan should leave the E,U. Can’t afford to stay in with all this immigration and become a closed country

  102. avatar
    Stephen gray

    Yes leave why should other countries tell us what we can and can’t do as in immigration leaving our borders open isn’t just silly it’s dangerous all sorts of criminals getting in and not checked

  103. avatar
    Al.

    Andrew, if the UK left the EU then more immigration would likely come from North Africa / Middle East and less from Europe.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Al.
      That’s right and they would stay in the EU as UK borders would be controlled.

    • avatar
      Gvasco

      @Tarquin

      If you anything about it you would know that EU immigration is your best kind of immigration, as most come to study or for jobs either way they pay some form of taxes and generally don’t get many benefits. However the same cannot be said for other immigrants especially those from the Commonwealth.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Gvasco, I suppose you are basing this on the report that came out this year stating that EU migration had a positive impact on the UK’s economy.

      So many people make this assertion without realising the truth about the report. The CReAM Report was funded by the EU and originally published in 2013 when it was debunked by all serious academics as using outdated data, ignoring existing data, using different age samples etc. The list of errors was endless.

      The report was then re-issued this year with the caveat that these errors had been dealt with, however under peer review it was found that few had been dealt with effectively. There had been no changed in the age samples (comparison of working age EU migrants v 0-90 year old UK and non-EU sample), they researchers failed to update their data stacks and also stated that information readily available did not exist.

      Research by others including the House of Commons and House of Lord’s Library Specialists whose job is to provide unbiased information to MP, Lords and Ministers has stated that at the best EU migration has had no impact, at worst up to £97bn negative impact once in work and other benefits are calculated in from 1997-2013.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Gvasco
      WRONG!

      Most EU immigrants to the UK come from countries with high-levels of corruption as specified by TI and too their mother-tongue tends not to be English.

      I’d prefer Australians or New Zealanders or Canadians any day over INCONTINENTALISTS.

  104. avatar
    Magdalena

    I’m not british myself, but I do hope England (we shouldn’t make assumptions about the Scotts) leaves the EU. They are a constant source of imperialist arrogance and are an obstacle to greater integration. These are the people that are the forefathers of rampant capitalism, exploitation of workers, material and cultural collonialism, inventors of poor laws and work houses and who are more worried about corporate interests than the prosperity of citizens. Furthermore, they have the totally unfair single-winner electoral system, do not have a constitution and do not have a real seperation of legislative and executive powers. let them leave.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Unlike many European countries Magdelana the UK has never needed to enshrine the rights of its peoples into a constitution because we have centuries of case and precedent to build upon from the Magna Carta onwards.

      The UK does not have an imperialist arrogance rather we have an independent mind set that does not stand being ridden over. You should be thankful for this as in the last century it is the only thing that saved Europe from being overrun by Germany. This time we may not be able to save you from Germany’s political and economic takeover.

  105. avatar
    Kriss Darke

    A lot of youngsters who are pro-EU have never experienced the time when the United Kingdom was a strong and respected force, WITHOUT having to belong to a European club. All this twaddle about Britain can’t manage outside the EU, so many fools have lapped up what the politicians tell them. What we should be doing is having full control of our borders; instead of stopping immigration completely, we should be doing a points system just like other countries do. We should only encourage take-in for skills where we have genuine shortages. We don’t need Big Issue sellers or street-corner musicians. Our own youngsters have been discriminated against and smeared by the MSM as lazy layabouts, which in the main isn’t true, it is only said in order to promote more cheap labour into the country.
    Our benefits system is being drained by foreign people sending money home to their families; and we are expected to provide more and more homes for these people as they pour in. Anyone who cannot grasp the simple fact that this has been a massive social engineering project must be a nail short of two planks.
    Immigrants are welcome when the country is at ease with handling them and they have jobs to come to. But NOT when our own folk have to go short of services, schooling, medicines and housing in order to satisfy the dictates of the foreign power that now rules over us. It’s easy to talk and shout “racist” when you yourself are comfortable, with money and have a job.
    Just wait till folk have to start paying for every mile they drive their car, courtesy of little black boxes; on top of the fuel they have to buy, the road tax they have to pay and the insurance costs. Anyone who thinks it is great to sell Britain off to a foreign power is a traitor.

  106. avatar
    Ell

    United we stand, separate we fail. It is always easy to leave the boat when it smells ashes but leaving is weak and selfish.

  107. avatar
    Paul W

    Sadly I think that it is inevitable that the UK will leave the EU. That said, as things stand I would not support continued membership.
    We were sold a common market back in the 70’s and those who pointed out the political integration element were told it wouldn’t happen by arrogant politicians who thought that they could prevent it. It is now more clear than ever that the ultimate goal is the creation of a federal United States of Europe despite the assurances to the contrary of a bunch of untrustworthy European politicians and technocrats who view democracy and the wishes of the electorate who pay their wages as a bit of an inconvenience that should be ignored or circumvented whenever possible.
    The British people do not want a political union and never have. I do not know if the same is true for people in other countries in the EU, but any new treaty to reach such a union would involve transfer of powers to Brussels that would trigger an un winnable referendum in the UK. Therefore it would be far more sensible for a reasonable, negotiated exit to be agreed now so as to enable those countries that wished to proceed with political union to proceed, un hindered by us pesky brits.
    As for those who say that we would have no say over standard and so on in the EU if we are honest, we have precious little now. We have no influence over standards in other parts of the world but still trade with those countries. Leaving would give us back full control over justice, immigration, security, defence and a raft of other areas that the EU has chosen to meddle in. This does not mean that we could not or would not co-operate with our European neighbours on an equitable basis.
    For my own perspective itwould require something that would be totally unacceptable to the rest of the EU member countries in order to convert me to a stay in the union position.
    1: The abolition or the European Parliament which adds a lot of cost whilst adding no value. interferes in EU legislation in ways that it has no mandate to and which is basically no democratically accountable. (Being allowed to vote for it is note democratic accountability since you cant vote out a form of government that doesn’t have a manifesto therefore can hardly claim that it has a mandate to implement a pre stated set of policies. Their only policy is that they want more Europe and more power for themselves (preferable without the inconvenience of being held accountable)

    2: Replacement of the term European citizen in the treaties with the term citizens of the member states of the European Union. Only the EU could reinvent the meaning of the words citizen and citizenship for its own underhand devious ends. If we truly have dual citizenship i.e. citizenship of our own nations and citizenship of the EU then there is no legal reason that we should not be allowed to renounce our EU citizenship because it would no make us stateless perons. But when to write to them to renounce EU citizenship they write back and tell you it is not citizenship in the generally accepted term so you cant. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT? Because when they form United States of Europe, the minute the signature goes on the treaty your country will cease to be a nation and as such you will not have citizenship of your own country. At that moment the term citizen of the European Union will magically revert to the meaning that we ordinary folk give to it.

    In parting I would like to comment on a couple of points raised by other contributors:
    Tarquin Farquhar claims that the EU is too small geographically and demographically to be significant in todays world. Lets be honest here neither of these things is that importan. What is more important is wealth relative to the rest of the world and in that sense the EU is up there.

    Another contributor claimed that if we left the EU and stopped EU immigration it would lead to greater levels of immigration from other parts of the world. This contributor fails to point out that if the UK government wanted to it could block all immigration from the rest of the world right now. However there is nothing it can do about immigration from the EU.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Paul W
      Relative wealth is important but NOT at all costs. Democracy is important too – I don’t want to live in a country turning into a China Mk 2.

      As regards your assertion that the UK government wants to stop all immigration – that is WRONG; No UK party with MPs stipulates stopping immigration 100% – just CONTROLLING immigration like Australia does.

    • avatar
      gvasco

      1: The eu parliament doesn’t interfere with anything like any other parliament they pass new laws called directive which have to be implemented by European countries. Second it is democratically accountable as your own parliament, EMP’s get elected by their own states and work to promote or counter new directives.

      2: EU citizenship is awarded automatically because you are a citizen of an EU member country. So to rescind your EU citizenship you’d need to rescind your UK citizenship as that is the only way.

      Being an EU citizen allows you to go on holidays anywhere in Europe without having to apply for visas. It allows to go and live and work somewhere with the same rights as a national of that country.

      As for immigration you already have lots more immigration from the rest of the world then from the EU. Not to mention that EU immigrants contribute more than they take to the UK economy.

  108. avatar
    eusebio manuel vestias pecurto

    UK and Scotland want continue within the European Union reformed Democracy rights

  109. avatar
    deano

    We are big enough and strong enough to make our own choices!!

    • avatar
      Barbara

      not after Scotland left! You will be a minnow on the world stage.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      What 3 Million people out of 65 Million. You really have been hoodwinked by the fishes

  110. avatar
    maureen mclaughlin

    We need out of the corrupt EU and spend the money in our own country, we need to build up our Army,Airforce and Marines to protect our selves, the sooner we are out the better

    • avatar
      gvasco

      I would look at corruption in the UK before accusing the EU of corruption.

  111. avatar
    ivica

    Uk should leave EU becouse EU liders are corumped and and it lead to disaster

  112. avatar
    Matthew Rawcliffe

    It’s about time we got our country back. We should control our own borders, our own laws, our own fisheries. Our country should be run by our elected MPs in Westminster, not the un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels. It’s time we regained our sovereignty. The only people who benefit from EU membership are corporate bigwigs – not the ordinary man. If you care about Britain then join UKIP and do your bit.

    • avatar
      gvasco

      The bureaucrats you talk of are not unelected. Maybe unelected by you if you didn’t vote in the EU elections but hey that’s your problem. The UK still controls its fisheries it just has to do it under EU’s laws within the quotas given to them. Your parliament still has the power of passing laws just occasionally has to pass in a law that was passed first by the EU parliament. You can control foreign emigration just not european one. The EU immigrants that come with jobs or to study and contribute by paying taxes are not the ones putting weight on UK’s benefit schemes.

  113. avatar
    catherine benning

    The single reason the Conservatives won this selection mandate we had last week is purely because they offered a cast iron promise of a referendum of in/out on the EU. The British foolishly believe the EU are the reason we have mass immigration and politically correct policies forced on us against our will. Even though Cameron has already began waving the PC flag in our faces this morning with the incompetant women he must be seen to have on his front bench. That old chestnut of what is between their legs rather than between their ears being the thrust he has gone with. Priti Patel being the front runner.

    However, I wouldn’t worry too much about an in out referendum in the UK, they are very competant at election fraud. A lot like the USA. So, watch the propaganda press from now to the vote and you will see how the turn out and answer to the question will be.

    The British people definitely want out of Europe, as they want rid of ‘political correctness’ and ‘mass immigration,’ (the competing parities openly offered us more of that) and they believe having voted for the Tory crew, that is what they are going to get. If it wasn’t so terribly sad it would be hilariously funny. And of course, our opposition Labour party is using this win to once again follow the Blair creature and his bent side kick Mandelson to put in their puppet American loving con man spiv, the African mix, Chuka Ummuna to lead us on the expected 2020 downfall. They obviously side with suicide packs or feel, in five years time, we will have such a big enough population of immigrants, akin to London where Labour won outright, that they will once again be able to rub the British peoples noses in it.

    Cameron and his party would not have won this election without the outspokeness of Nigel Farage. They should be very grateful to him. And Nigel is absolutely right when he tells us we will now simply have more of the same. Nigel somehow lost his bottle toward the end of this relentless charade leading up to this vote. He should spill the beans about what really happened to him in the run up.

    And, as a little awakening for all you Europeans reading this thread, the first act our new government is to immediately center removing us from the ‘Human Rights Act’ and the all consuming removal of welfare from our disabled, elderly, and mentally ill people in order to save £12 billion for their generous friends and the monarchy to make sure they will have more to get by on.

    Of course, they don’t want to have that tax payers money going toward paying out for the millions of boat survivors we will be sucking up like a sponge coming in from Libya and Africa, they are only there to aid our wealthy to pay us all less than a living wage.

    And my last line is, we, the British public, deserve all we get, we voted for this crock with a good majority. If, of course, it wasn’t one of our famous rigged ballots. That said though, what alternative did they really have?

    • avatar
      Hahahaha

      A horrible prediction, written so eloquently no buffoon questioned your unfaltering logic. If England had 50% more people like you, I would not have left 5 years ago. I saw this coming and it is not pretty. I wish you the best of luck, maybe get out while you still can.

  114. avatar
    catherine benning

    One more little bit of information for all you citizens of Europe, if you want to directly speak your mind to our government of unelected but very powerful legislative group of half wits, use the internet to go to ‘Lords of the Blog’ where you will find a forum similar to this, and tell them of your discomfort. They will love to hear from you I’m sure.

    Remember, it’s called Lords of the Blog. You never know, maybe you will be able to affect their thinking on the politics of the European people.

  115. avatar
    Syeda

    Yes, Britain needs to leave the EU, Its a serious concern for British citizens and Britain’s sovereignty. The EU was originally Adolf Hitler’s found and Britain should not have even gone near it , Let alone being governed by it. The EU have turned Britain into a third world country by allowing criminals to take advantage of the Benefits, NHS and Education whilst hiding their background through an EU generated jobs and skills criteria that allows EU citizens to wipe their past criminal records slate clean, take up jobs that a British citizen could have taken but the Government doesn’t want British citizens to have any access to British jobs because that will bancrupt the jobcentres and break European laws.

  116. avatar
    Paul X

    This is typical of the EU, wait until the UK elections have just finished before announcing proposals like this

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32685942

    They didn’t dare suggest this a week ago knowing the effect it would have on the vote, this is infantile politics at it’s best and the sooner we stop these idiots having any influence on our lives the better

    • avatar
      Gvasco

      No one takes British jobs, people apply and if they get the job maybe it’s because they’re better qualified for it?Have you ever considered that it is actually a lot of British that abuse benefits and live off of these quite happily without wanting to take up a job? Have you ever looked at the pregnancy rate in the UK and how that takes a toll on the benefits?

      Saying that the EU is Hitler’s found just shows how little you know about the EU as the EU was started to promote better business between EU countries and to prevent more wars in Europe. I’m not going to say it’s a perfect Union but it’s still a young Union and with work hopefully it will get better. The UK still has a lot of power over it’s law and economic systems the EU hasn’t taken that away, the UK simply agreed to have some laws and some power being transferred to the EU when it joined and signed the Treaties that came after wards.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Gvasco, Maybe it’s because they are willing to work for less on the basis that they will receive our rather inflated “In Work Benefits”. If they were not granted access to those or out of work benefits and housing then immigration would probably fall. But it is the UK’s fault that their benefit system is over-generous.

      You have obviously not looked at he UK’s preganancy rate. In 2013 26.5% of all UK births were to non-UK mothers. The average family soze of UK born parents is 1.79, the average on non-uk born parents is 2.29. Now imagine how much of a toll that 26.5% has on benefits?

    • avatar
      gvasco

      You are assuming that all those foreign families get benefits. Ever considered that most of those families will also have jobs and be paying taxes? Plus you are putting EU migrants in the same basket as immigrants from other parts of the world. Ever considered that those that place the biggest burden on benefits are not the EU nationals but those that come from Commonwealth countries and other parts of the world?

      Despite that high number of births by non-uk nationals that’s only 1/4 of the all the births meaning that the 3/4 were by uk nationals. Now consider the high rate of teen pregnancies which will have the biggest burden on benefits (yes teen pregnancy rates are going down but still some of the highest in europe).

      Anyway you still have many more UK nationals claiming benefits than you have non-uk nationals.

      Here are a few articles on which I’ve based my arguments:

      https://fullfact.org/factchecks/migrants_foreign_nationals_benefits_claim_likely_UK-27395

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-noneu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html

    • avatar
      Paul X

      @ Gvasco
      Reference your (often) quoted links
      It’s nothing to shout about that “ONLY 6%” of benefit claimants are non-UK while 15% are UK nationals, the percentage of non UK nationals entitled to claim benefits should be a big fat zero, end of

      And as for immigrants and their supposed “5Bn contribution” to the economy, do people think there are lots of jobs around that would not get done unless an immigrant arrives and starts making a contribution? For every immigrant making a contribution there is probably a UK national out of work claiming benefits so the net value is zero – and don’t start on the often spouted “immigrants do jobs that UK nationals don’t want” that is utter bullsh!t. Go to any agricultural area and speak to those who used to be employed on seasonal work who’s jobs are now taken by immigrants with no family or housing responsibilities who live in a caravan and are prepared to work for peanuts

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Gvasco, You keep referring to how much EU migrants put into the economy the newspaper you reference is referring to the CReAM Report. See my other responses to you on this and the rather debunked CReAM Report, despite being published twice (2013 & 2015). This is the one that all pro-EU people rely on but it is so full of holes that if it were a boat it would sink.

      You have also not taken into account how many of those births a from people for whom British Nationality is only 1 generation (i.e. themselves). Perhaps review ONS, House of Lords and House of Commons papers on this.

  117. avatar
    Chalks Corriette

    In fact, none of the UK issues around abuse of the NHS, education system and/or benefits are driven by the EU. The EU does not support abuse in any country – they laid out a plan for all EU citizens to be able to move and add economic value within Europe. They did not write into this, the ability for people to be an economic burden to any country. This is a pure UK government item, which they are within their rules to stop. You cannot turn up in Belgium and get any benefits if you have not contributed to the system. So first, as the UK, learn from best practice and implement the guidelines as they were approved and you will save your tax payers/citizens a lot of problems.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      You are quite correct. However the original problem was caused by a ECHR ruling which caused a change to the founding principals. These originally included the free movement of workers, or those with offers of employment. The ruling stated that this was unfair and that the principal should be the free movement of people irrespective as to whether they were going to a country to work or not.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      Are you for real if 300k extra people on top of already rising population don’t out strain in our services I suggest you go back to school and redo your maths

  118. avatar
    Fintail

    The British only know the European Union through the filter of its published media which is owned mainly by anti-Europeans. How the EU works seems is barely comprehensible and its purpose is never discussed intelligibly. No wonder then that a growing number of my fellow citizens are veering towards disenchantment with the European project and are unaware that very many of our fellow Europeans feel very much the same in every country.
    Yes we could leave but how much better would it be if our politians both national and European worked a lot harder to promote a vision for Europe rather being constrained the dismally shallow views of the economists. I think it would be fair to say that Rome or more recently the Large Hadron Collider would never have been built if economists had been listened to. Europe should be so much greater than the sum of its parts. It’s a shame that some of its parts are heading towards nationalism and irrelevance.

    • avatar
      Gvasco

      Completely agree with your comment!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      But what is the purpose of the EU? Is it trade or is it to create a Political Union? If a political union then how will that leave each member states parliaments and in the case of the UK, Monarchy. How will we move towards a more US style of election and governance, or is a different form proposed.

      These are the questions that need answering before anyone can decide whether they wish to stay or leave.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      I disagree what is this Vision that you talk about that we have never had a say on what vision to break our country up into regions what vision to control all our lives without even a say about it.

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Danny you are right these some of the questions that need debating but trade and or political union are the mechanics of the EU not the Purpose. Surely when nearly 30 million people are unemployed in Europe whilst we are importing billions of Euros/£ worth low quality products from countries who use the equivalent to slave labour then there is a solution that an organisation and large and as powerful as the EU can with a little imagination could resolve this situation. If I can think of several solutions then surely so can our worldly wise politicians can come up with a few. There are so many practical global problems that the EU should be focused on that would leave the national and regional politicians free to sweet the small stuff.

      Keith thanks I expect you are also right about my IQ and It could be that my use of the word vision is a bit impractical but we have just had an election where none of the political parties could tell us where they wanted to take the ship of state but they all wanted to tell us how they would be better than the other guy in maintaining the engine oil. I would have liked a little vision from the bridge.

      Paul X…. interesting but a little out of date.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Fintail If the EU acted as an Integrated Trade Block rather than keep focussing on expansion and creating an economic and political state then perhaps they could do just as you suggest. The EU has a number of member states especially from Eastern Europe who would fit the bill for such development. This would aid those countries and also reduce migration. Instead the EU ignores this issue and lets countries depopulate. One has to wonder why?

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Danny an ‘Integrated’ Trade Block sounds a little like an ‘economic and political union’ rather like a United Kingdom. The expansion thing does seem to have gone a bit far except that it was and is voluntary. What has happened is that it has become very unwieldy thus it is hard to see whether is potentially corrupt or just outrageously inefficient, either way maybe, just maybe, Cameron has inadvertently lit a spark that will lead to us sending our front rank negotiators to Strasbourg/Brussels rather than washed out politicos. This time we really do have something serious to lose.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Fintail, I agree we do have a lot to lose. This is why I believe that pre-referendum the UK must be aware of the real choices, this is not an IN/OUT referendum but a referendum on the future of the nation state.

      Do we leave and forge a new future outside of the EU as a trading partner?

      Or do we stay and accept that at some time in the future we will have to give up sovereignty, the ability to control our state and the £?

      These are the options.

      Look at today’s announcement ref the med migrants and quota’s. The proposed system take no account of population density, Foreign Aid Contributions or National Debt ratio. Neither does it take into account the number of migrants granted asylum who then head for Calais and the UK. This will be the future for the UK if we stay and people need to understand the starl options.

  119. avatar
    Susan Layla

    I think it’s hilarious how all the other European countries think that we want to bum lick America. No we want to leave because the EU takes the piss out of us, we give so much money yet we’re unable to control immigration. I live in London and it’s just overly ridiculous.
    The thing is… If the EU and Britain are able to renogiate some terms then we’d be happy to stay. Thing is we know it won’t and our country can’t take this much longer.

    Oh and btw…. We’re Great Britain for a reason. Remember that, we stood alone once… We can do it again!

    • avatar
      gvasco

      Everyone stood alone once in the past in different circumstances, if you think the UK will be able to regain it’s influence after leaving then you know very little and need to read some more about it. Most of the UK’s industry would feel massive repercussions from leaving the EU with business would be slower due to get bureaucratic load created by separation as all trade would be taxed and justified again. Considering most of UK’s commerce is with the EU.

      The EU and Britain don’t need to renegotiate anything all the terms as they are have been accepted by your politicians so your 2 options is either to accept this reality and stay or move on with the referendum and leave. Then after leaving you can establish a trading union like Switzerland and Norway but you will still have to bow down to the EU’s conditions to do this.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Gvasco, The problem is what is the reality? It is not the Trading Block that the UK voted to join but a full on political and economic state. UK Citizens need to be aware of this, this is not a matter of just renegotiating an agreement and staying it is a matter of “if you stay then you will need to give up more sovereignty, give up economic freedon and the £, and agree to be legislated and run from Europe. Most UK Citizens are unlikely to support this.

      As regards trade, you will be aware that the EU has a 79% Trade Surplus with the UK and that therefore any barriers would actually be more harmful to EU states than to the UK. You should also be aware that in relation to product standards etc BSI standards are quite often the chosen standard for European Norms and where they are not many more are taken up by ISO.

      So what condition would we need to bow down to? Our trade with EU is insignificant in comparision to our trade outside.

    • avatar
      blugalf

      > If the EU and Britain are able to renogiate some terms

      That’s not quite how it works, though. What we’re talking about here is ultimately an international contract. A binding agreement between 28 nations, nothing more, nothing less. The UK is a single gear in this, even though granted it is one of the bigger ones.

      Within this contract, all nations are equal to begin with – obviously. There is no sense in one of them coming forward and suddenly demanding different terms with ‘you lot’. Least of all on the grounds of some self-perceived import which should warrant a special arrangement. There’s also no point negotiating with the EU. No one and nothing in “Brussels” has any competence here. That’s not their job. Its’s a fundamental misconception to think that a contract change itself.

      Instead, you must negotiate with all of the 27 other member nations – individually.

      So to be practical: you’d have to be so large in many respects that you dominate everyone else and no one can sensibly defy your will. But the UK is not the US. Not even close. No one in the EU is, luckily.

      Or you’d have to form a coalition with a good number of other members also wanting a change big enough to warrant a total re-negotiation. That’s a difficult task to say the least.

      > Remember that, we stood alone once… We can do it again!

      That, in fact, is ‘your’ right, as much as it is the right of any of the other members. Just leave – it’s that simple. A letter from your government to the other 27 will suffice. After that, the contract requires negotiations over the parting terms, but even if those stall or fail for some reason – after 2 years at the very most, union law will automatically and definitely cease to apply in the UK.

      At which point the UK is free to do as it pleases in all respects as a totally independent nation. Barring of course a number of other international contracts such as with NATO or the UN, and quite a few other freedom-limiting entities which still would have to be taken care of.

  120. avatar
    Keith jones

    A programme need to be made total unbiased pros and cons then let the public decide. But it must be unbiased and we need to know everything.

    • avatar
      fockerski

      The UE serves no practical purpose other than paying salaries of EU commissioners and MEPs, co-operation is already happening between various countries, thats the reason they have diplomats and embassies in the first place. The European Union is a sham of gigantic proportions to introduce another level of bureaucracy onto an already overburdened population. If you dont realize this your IQ is most likely <100.

  121. avatar
    Barbara

    Road Rage May 9th, 2015
    Yeah whatever, you can stick your EU up your continental dirt bikes boxes, we’re Britons not Europeans
    ~~~
    This is just comical. Did the tectonic plates shift? What re you then? Atlantian? Martian?

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Britain (or Great Britain) is a Geographic description for England, Scotland and Wales so the term is correct.
      Europeans refers to someone who lives in Europe so you were both technically correct.

  122. avatar
    Barbara

    Should the UK leave not so much left of a UNITED Kingdom. Scotland will have another referendum and will separate this time.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Perhaps that is a discussion that needs to take place should there be a successful Out referendum. However voting for that referendum needs to be on the same basis as the last Scottish referendum and also the 1975 one. 1 vote per person. There must not be any tail wagging.

      If the UK as a whole votes to leave then I do believe Scotland should be given the option of a Referendum but it would need to take into account that as a member of the EU, with open borders, they would need to bear the cost of implementing Border Controls and security on their border with rUK. It should also require that Scotland bears the true support costs for those banks based in Scotland and underwritten by the UK Taxpayer, not 7% of the burden as Alex Salmond said.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      The Scotland position on an EU referendum makes it quite interesting

      Nicola Sturgeon has made it quite clear that if Scotland is taken out of the EU against its will, that is cause to trigger another Scottish referendum. To determine if Scotland is being dragged out of the EU “against its will” means that the results of the UK (EU) referendum needs to be broken down into Scotland and the Rest of UK, and if an overall majority want out but a Scottish majority want in, then that indicates that Scotland is being “dragged out against its will”

      What if the overall vote is very close to stay in but the Rest of UK element is an “out” vote, can Rest of UK claim it is being held within the EU against its will due to Scotland?

  123. avatar
    blugalf

    This is up to the Brits and no-one else. Unfortunately, I might add. Personally I hope Cameron sticks to his word- the referendum is a mere formality. It’s going to be LEAVE, that much at least is certain.

    I fear though that while playing his ‘I reform Europe’ game he’s going to cook up some totally minor compromise on wording somewhere in an second rate subcontract, then blow that up into a magnificent reform. Which HE managed to foist onto Europe. Then he’ll boast around and go ‘look guys, I forced the continental dimwits to jump to our whistle, so we might as well stay in now’ and recommend a REMAIN.

    Not good. So, yes!

    Since the UK is a very special country obviously. In a number of realms which are somewhat hard to define or even see for non-Brits. In a very lofty way it just doesn’t belong into the circle of the other 27 mediocracities. Granted, neither its current economical nor social nor scientific merits -nor any metrics, as a matter of fact- nor its general placement within the structure of small, medium and large powers and economies would suggest that. It must be something else. Per capita, its net contribution is even less than average! Well behind Germany and France, and way behind the smaller nations. Funnily enough the Brits still manage to uphold this idea that they’re milked most while being screwed over the worst.

    Alright, guys, time build some big ores and start paddling.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK is the 2nd largest Net Contributor to the EU and does not enjoy the hidden rebates that otehrs such a France enjoy via CAP.
      In “Absolute Terms” the UK is always one of the top 4 net contibutors, so well above average.
      The UK runs a 79% Trade Deficit with the EU.
      The UK is one of the highest density per km of any EU member and the largest of all of the major countries.
      Since 1997 5,700,000 EU citizens have moved to the UK in comparision 1,800,000 have move to EU countries. They are not noted for sending their income back to the UK unlike many migrants to the UK.
      O’h and Germany has been breaching the EU’s rules for 5 years, driving other EU Member States into recession and usingtheir influence to maintain a high Euro rate to their advantage, not to that of any other member state (this is US Treasury analysis). Despite breaching the rules Germany has not been fined.

    • avatar
      Fintail

      I take it, Blugalf the Wise, you are the Cornish Nationalist!

    • avatar
      blugalf

      >The UK is the 2nd largest Net Contributor to the EU and does not
      enjoy the hidden rebates that otehrs such a France enjoy via CAP.
      In “Absolute Terms” the UK is always one of the top 4 net
      contibutors, so well above average.

      The absolute numbers mean precisely jack squat in this
      context. UK has the 2nd largest population after Germany among
      the net contributors. I.e. it has more people than France. To
      illustrate this issue more plainly, the average Dane pays about
      twice as much into the EU than the average Brit. The average
      French pays about 150% that of the average Brit. The average
      German pays about 130% that of the average Brit.

      Hidden rebates? It’s called ‘net contribution’ for a reason.

      >The UK runs a 79% Trade Deficit with the EU.

      Where to start? Firstly, that number may well have come from
      someone’s rear. The UK trade deficit typically floats around 5%
      with *both EU and non-EU trading partners*. Or in other words,
      the UK has an equally large deficit with all blocs it trades
      with. Not that this is much of an issue in economic terms. FYI, a
      ~~80% trade deficit is usually a privilege of extremely
      underdeveloped banana republics. The kind we don’t want in the
      EU. Arrange that into context in any way you like.

      Secondly, whose fault -if such a term makes sense- is that trade
      deficit, exactly? The EU’s? Does the EU now also dictate trade
      deficits directly? Or the UK’s economic structure and prowess,
      for that matter?

      >The UK is one of the highest density per km of any EU member and
      the largest of all of the major countries.

      It’s ever so slightly higher than Germany’s. And that signifies
      what, exactly? BE and NL have much higher population densities,
      and they would probably object to being put into some “non-major”
      category here. They have exactly the same or rather, even worse
      issues associated with density stress and population influx.

      >Since 1997 5,700,000 EU citizens have moved to the UK in
      comparision 1,800,000 have move to EU countries. They are not
      noted for sending their income back to the UK unlike many
      migrants to the UK.

      What’s the net tax income generated by those immigrants within
      the uk? Do you happen to have any sources -or any kind of hard
      information, for that matter- on that, or do these people
      generally default to be benefit recipients in your view? How does
      that figure compare with non-EU immigration? How does it compare
      with the influx other EU countries see?

      >O’h and Germany has been breaching the EU’s rules for 5 years,
      driving other EU Member States into recession and usingtheir
      influence to maintain a high Euro rate to their advantage, not to
      that of any other member state (this is US Treasury
      analysis). Despite breaching the rules Germany has not been
      fined.

      Right, the “US treasury” would put up anything like that as
      analyis anytime. What rules? The SGP criteria? How is Germany in
      breach here any more than another big economy, say, the UK? Has
      the UK been fined? If anything, Germany has made more efforts
      than towards convergence than France and the UK.

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Well I guess that puts Danny Boy and Blugalf Broadsword in a right buggersmuddle. Beyond disentanglement. Still I am glad we got sorted out,

    • avatar
      Gvasco

      @Blog of

      All countries enjoy your so called hidden rebates, which are nit hidden but are given to every country in the form of subsidies so long as they apply for it and suit the terms of the subsidy.

      Every country’s contribution is based on percentages of their total revenue and population so its in proportion. You can never expect a smaller less populated country to contribute as much. So net contribution means nothing, everything needs to be put in context.

      If the UK had such a high trade deficit with the EU I’m surprised you haven’t left already!

      Yes maybe a lot of Europeans come and live here, but in those numbers are the people that leave also considered? if you knew anything about European immigrants you’d know that A lot either come with a job offer, to study In which case they some sort of taxes and don’t get that many benefits, the rest come looking for jobs and don’t take long to become tax paying citizens. Don’t bother giving me the “yeah you steal jobs that could go to British” crap. No one steals jobs jobs just get given to other people. Would you man the corner store next to your house? Probably not so we need everyone, as most British wouldn’t do some of the jobs that get given to foreigners. I don’t know numbers but one thing for sure they are not the burden on NIS everyone wants to believe.

      The influx of EU immigrants is high for all the wealthiest countries in the EU, and I until we achieve greater equality among member states in minimum income, taxes and so on that influx will go on happening.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Blugaf, Where do I start with you

      Absolute means everything. As Disraeli said “There are Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics” Absolute removes these statistical plays such as per capita.

      Glad to see you do not attempt to deny the hidden rebates that countries such as France get. Everyone goes on about the rebate that the UK gets but your pro-EU bunch ignore the benefits others get back.

      One up to date source for you http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32231055 You can also try ONS and do the calculations for yourself.

      Net contribution of EU migrants. Well if you believe the EU paid for CReAM report which so many idiots do then you would say they have made a positive contribution. This is the report that was published in 2013 and debunked for serious errors, re-published in 2015 and debunked for even more errors. House of Lord’s and House of Commons Economic Specialist (you can look up their reports online) estimate that between 1997-2013 (the data period for CReAM) that EU migrants have had a balanced or negative impact.

      Yes I refer to the Stability and Growth Pact, which does not apply to the UK as we are not in the Euro. Germany has breached this for the last 5 years running at a 6-7% breach. Every year they say they will take action, every year they do not. This is because the German economy is solely geared towards export not for domestic consumption.

      But I could have chosen State Aid, Emissions etc. There are many examples.

      German efforts for convergence tend to be for Germany’s gain, but a pro-EU person like you probably would deny this

    • avatar
      blugalf

      @Danny Young: Heavens… absolute means zilch, zero, nada here. Again: in this context. Statistical plays? Uh huh. Breakdown per captia is absolutely essential when you’re talking about these things.

      It’s as trivial as it is obvious that the UK is a large net contributor. That’s because it has the second largest population amongst the members which pay a net contribution. Net contribution is mostly a function of population size and some economic performance criteria – which, btw, happen to bring the UK toward the lower end of positive contribution per head here.

      Absolute contribution says nothing whatsoever about how much the EU costs or benefits each of us in terms of direct balance. But that is a very important measure, one in which the UK is a very average country and in which the brits by no means are milked unduly – the latter claim being a major Looney Tunes storyline of the ‘EUSSR’ type and similar dimwits.

      And for heaven’s sake, let’s look at some absolute figures already. I can’t be bothered to dig up the latest data, but this will do. What matters here is the right corridor of magnitude, and that doesn’t change all that much over time. 2009 budget data: budget, ie summed contribution by all members ~~€100bn. Net contribution by the UK, ~~€3.8bn (or, and read this carefully, a quarter of one percent of the UK GDP). Lets be generous and round that up to €5bn. So after UK leaves, EU expenditure to the remaining countries goes down by €5bn or around 5% … given that the EU budget was recently cut by what, 3% or something even without anyone’s exit, I’d say that’s less than a dramatic loss.

      I do in fact deny the hidden rebates – thank you very much.

      Trade deficit is meaningful as a percentage of GDP, and only as such. But hang on, thats statistical tricks, right? Thought so. Rest assured though, in real life a trade deficit really is compared to the total economic output in order to arrive at any sort of meaningful indicator. One can start to worry and complain once it goes beyond something like 10% of GDP.

      Not sure what you did juggling the UK trade office data to present an evil looking figure. But then again you’re trying to come up with numbers and indicators with the potential of hurting the EU really, really badly once their poor tormented dairy cow UK finally rises in indignation and moos ‘enough! I’m out!’. – UK imports from the EU per month ~~UKP 20bn UK exports to EU per month ~~UKP 12.5bn trade gap ~~UKP 7bn. Total EU GDP ~~€1000bn per month.

      What’s also funny is that you uk’s-too-good-to-be-in people usually claim that trade couldn’t possibly be affected. If that were so, what reason is there to think that anything would change in trade balance after the Brexit?

      Are you also aware of the fact that the UK has a negative trade balance with the RoW? What about also leaving the RoW for the ultimate last laugh? I, for one, have begun to see the potential benefits of such an exit quite a while ago, as small as they might be. Doors, and lower backs, and safety tips come to mind.

      Immigration, sure sure, if you don’t like the line of reasoning it’s all biased bogus. I’m not going to descend to your level here and flat out call you an idiot in return, although it sure seems indicated. Anywhere between zero and -97bn eh? Jesus fúçkïng Christ, I wish they hadnt narrowed it down THAT much.

      Criteria breach, for goodness sake try and keep the terms straight. The SGP is an agreement between ALL members. The commission can, and has done so, open a deficit case against the UK. At least when it comes to budget deficit and total debt / GDP ratio, and even if it won’t incur automatic sanctions. As near as I can make it out, your German ‘breach’ is Germany’s chronic export surplus – none of the actual SGP criteria. While some deem this surplus to be unduly harmful to other countries – which is debatable to say the least – it’s not a SGP criterion which Germany is required to adhere to or can be sanctioned for ‘breaching’. Occasionally the Germans need to be whacked with a fish for a number of things, but that’s not one of them.

  124. avatar
    Gina

    No, Britain is a strong European nation and we need everyone in the EU. There is power in unity!!!

    • avatar
      blugalf

      @Gvasco: my reply ended up in the wrong thread and the way I quoted the other post was, well let’s say sub-optimal. I basically agree with everything you said re rebates etc.

      Btw re the other comment and similar contributions here, it never ceases to amaze me how stubbornly and stringently people can uphold a certain ideological view on things, remaining completely untroubled by what should be simple facts and common sense.

    • avatar
      blugalf

      Darn it, this system sucks.Wrong thread again.

      @Fintail
      you remember the good old days too ;j) ?

    • avatar
      VictorToks

      What are the benefits of UK staying in the European trap.?Is it true Britain is the major contribution towards the cost of European union? Why wouldn’t they fight teeth and nail for UK to start in unprofitable marriage? I have no bad feeling against the European union, not all. What UK Government and people needs to know, is that, her economy, needs to have full access to trade with some of the world biggest economics, like China and Africa. Most of the European countries economy are not profitable for growth

  125. avatar
    Doreen

    No. It would be a spectacularly self-defeating move. And nobody has the time to go through the whole process of having them come crawling back yet again just because their domestic politics is basically a kindergarden.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      How would it be self-defeating? Explain

  126. avatar
    Ferenc Lázár

    U.K. should and will stay in Europe! But EU officials should listen and change some of their policy of burocracy and dictating..

    • avatar
      gvasco

      They dictate in the same way the UK parliament dictates over the UK or do you have a direct impact over policy making in the UK? As I am aware you elect Politicians to the parliament who you trust will make the right decisions according to your opinions when it comes to policy making and voting. The same happens in the European parliament it’s just that the parliament will be composed of numerous people elected by the different European countries who the form alliances to make and pass those policies.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Apart from the fact that no-one in the UK could vote for what was the winning party in the EU parliament (even if they wanted to) or the fact that no-one in the UK voted for Juncker to be president or the fact that no-one in the EU wants vast amounts of their money wasted by the parliament changing locations from Brussels and Strasbourg…….apart from all that…. I suppose its a typical EU democracy

    • avatar
      Fintail

      nice !!!

  127. avatar
    Adri Hulshoff

    As a Dutchman i would say yes. Stop kidnapping the development of Europe. Stop nagging and complaining about everything Europe does to you, take your own responsibility. Close the borders, let the financial centre move to Frankfurt (the Germans show to be thrust worthy these days…) Go back to the 50’s, start waring bowlers again, continue increasing the gap between the poor and the rich and become happy with it. On the other hand… I really love Britain and it would be a loss to see you go.

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Don’t worry Adri you can still come for a visit. Despite what you may have heard there are some decent coffee houses here!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      There is no way that the financial centre would move to Frankfurt not with all of the EU’s stupid proposals to tax that sector.

      As for Germans being trusty are you aware that for the last 5 years they have been the biggest breachers of EMU rules and in so doing so have impacted negatively on the trading ability of other member states?

      Also what is the development of Europe that you are happy with? Is it a single Political and Economic State rules from Brussels and Frankfurt. After 2 world wars do you really think that we should give domination of Europe to Germany?

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Danny if you read some of the European newspapers you wouldn’t ask those questions. Whenever the UK is mentioned it is always about some petty quibble that is hardly ever mentioned in the UK press. They often cite UK press headlines as an example of the nonsense we are being fed. All the continental countries have their own moans about Brussels but mostly it is more considered and usually accurate. That would be a nice change instead of a lot of the swivel-eyed political gaff that comprises most of these posts. (present company excepted)

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Oh yes I forget to mention the Dutch sense of humour is very dry. Adri’s tongue was very much in his cheek

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Fintail, I do and I would :)

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The UK has a record for enacting EU Regulations more in line with the regulation than many other countries. Then let’s consider Germany a country in massive breach of EU Rules to the extent that they affect other EU members and yet they get away with it without fines?

      So does that mean that Germany is not in Europe?

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Didn’t you try that twice in the last century and then need the UK and it’s allies to come to your rescue?

  128. avatar
    Nicholas Baldacchino

    EU ghaqda merkantili li qieghda tmut bil mod hemm bzonn li ahna nohorgu ghax invaduti minn kullhadd ………….spiccajna diga anke nies mill italja bulgarijja spanja u romania kollha hawn iridu jigu………….qeghdin sew………………….il kbar jigu hawn u ahna taf kif ser nispiccaw…………………barranin fartna

    • avatar
      Fintail

      Nicho I think you make a good point.,,,,,Just wish I knew what it was :-(

    • avatar
      David Reardon

      Nico

      I nikseb il-punt tiegħek iżda jeħtieġ li tkun ħafna iktar ċar jekk kelliema mhux Maltin huma li tifhem int.

      Forsi inti tista ‘tikteb mill-ġdid bl-Ingliż?

      Nico

      I think I get your point but it needs to be much clearer if non-Maltese speakers are to understand you.

      Perhaps you could write it again in English?

  129. avatar
    andy

    We should leave the eu get are freedom back and goven are selfs men have died for this in world wars lets not forget.

  130. avatar
    Jorge Simões

    Of course not… England is a pillar from Europe… They made a big step stay out of ?! Now is the moment to England show the Germans that England is always in top of Europe !!

  131. avatar
    Emanuel

    This is just for poll…that’s all…my opinion .

  132. avatar
    Jorge Qoqe

    Yes. UK has been against the union of Europe since the begging. I hope they leave us and keep friendship. They could be like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland: frinds but no members of EU. It’s also true that there is no mechanisim to leave the EU, but it wasn’t for the Greenland’s referendum in 1985 or the annexation of East Germany in 1990… and EU found the way so… Why not now? Goodbye brithish friends!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Article 50 is the mechanism

  133. avatar
    Pirvulescu Florin

    UK should really have that referendum regarding UK`s exit from EU.

    I will put things into perspective for them and it will force British politicians to defend EU thus ending the debate over EU membership in UK, at least for a while.

  134. avatar
    Jorge Qoqe

    There’s many no referred things that EU did it. As I remember all Cyprus joined. How the north part that isn’t recognized could be out? Well, EU found the way. It’s the same with lots of european territories that are out of the EU laws: Jersey, Gibraltar, Man… How is possible the caribean Saint Martin island, which belong half to Netherlands and half to France, you need a passport to cross? So, you will find the way! I’m pretty sure.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Why do we need political and economic control from the EU?

  135. avatar
    Paulo Especial

    It’s up to them!

    If they want to stay then I’ll want more commitment and if not, best of luck and keep up the good work and all the rest.

  136. avatar
    Alex Tselentis

    Who the f$# knows whats going on, I dont even think the monkeys in Bruseels or London even know themselves anymore, the EU in its current form (US vassal block/oligarchy) is doomed to fail, unless is drastically changed and overhauled, till then the UK should ditch it, unless that is the EU becomes a body for EUROPE by EUROPE and not some Wall Street slave camp.

  137. avatar
    Rick Wilmot

    NO! Within a few months there will be trade tariffs springing up. The UK is an integral part of Europe, get used to it!

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      The EU operates a 79% Trade Surplus with the UK so any trade tariffs would harm them more than the UK. I appreciate EU politicians can be stupid but not even they, especially as Germany would really suffer, are that stupid.

  138. avatar
    Costin Halaicu

    If it was up to me, then no, they shouldn’t. But it’s really up to them, and it’s probably for the better that they will have their referendum on the issue. However, in case of a Brexit, I doubt the Scots will let things go so easy. ;)

  139. avatar
    Eugenia Serban

    No. Of course not. We love GB. We d like to visit without visa. EU can t be EU without its most pwerful states.

    • avatar
      Keith jones

      All names have capitals first in English.

  140. avatar
    Eugenia Serban

    Please leave out the anoying topic of conflict between British and Germans. You re related. And both great nations and admirable democracies.
    We wish we were British or Germans. Stay in EU.
    NO ONE will ever challenge the position of UK as a top economical and financial power.

  141. avatar
    Péter Sebők

    yes, they should do so the sooner the better. There is no need for a burden to the further European integration

  142. avatar
    Davide Zoran Parenti

    Britain should take a final decision, valid forever in the future, to stay IN or OUT. With convinction. Just this. If you decide to stay in, you have to accept all the package, not just what you like. Stop special opt-outs, stop any kind of advantages for UK compared to the other member states. You can’t enjoy the advantage to be in the EU and in the common market without accepting the same rules that the other states share. No possibility has to be given to choose which rules you like and which you don’t like… i.e. the freedom of circulation is a pillar of the EU, not only for capitals but for people too.

    • avatar
      Danny Young

      Davide, you have it exactly.

      The UK needs to decide whether to:

      Leave and makes its own destiny; or

      Stay and become a Full and Active Member. This includes accepting the growing sovereignty of Brussels, relinquishing the £ in favour of the Euro and becoming part of a Republic with the loss of its Royal Family.

      None of this would happen straight away but that would have to be the commitment. Unfortunately the UK will never be asked to decide in that way, they will be asked OUT or STAY IN with a renegotiation

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Davide
      Most of what other countries see as UK “advantages” are just the UK trying to get a fairer deal. The UK came late into the EEC by which time Germany, France and Italy had already written the rules, mostly in their favor. The UK was begrudgingly let in for the money we were going to provide to the budget, and we have been getting screwed ever since

      The UK rebate is often spouted as a perk for the UK. No it isn’t, it is because CAP still takes 40% of the budget but only benefits 3% of the people with very little going to the UK, is that a fair deal for the UK as the 3rd highest contributor? (It is also conveniently forgotten by most that Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands and Denmark also get rebates, admittedly smaller than the UK)

      Other opt outs are because of a clear political divide between the EU and UK, Whether people like it or not the UK just democratically voted in a Conservative Right wing government, so why should the people of the UK be subjected to Socialist legislation from a Left leaning EU bureaucracy?

      Agreed, we accept the rules for the common market and I think you will find the UK abides to most trade related rules (more than some other EU countries certainly) but back door Socialism isn’t democracy

  143. avatar
    Lidia Están Arias

    No. Dear British voters, the EU Court is the only way to avoid abuses from your government, if they happen; ultimately you pay the fine but at least they stop. I understand you may resent subventioning French and Spanish agriculture, but the way to go could be selling us products and having profits, like Germany does; plus recovering your industry would make your people in the north happy again. And for the whole EU; either protection from unfair trade or this is only a social club.

    • avatar
      Marcel

      The EU Court is nothing of the kind.

      The EU isn’t needed for trade, leaving the EU has zero effect on trade volume, in fact it might even increase it as you are no longer burdened by nonsensical EU rules. EU countries since 2002 have seen lower trade ‘growth’ than the rest of the world, therefore the EU is proven to be detrimental to trade. The EU is not a free trade zone but a customs union that routinely discriminates against Africans (amongst other things).

  144. avatar
    Didier Cosse

    Oui, ras le bol du UK qui empche toute avance politique en Europe. L’heure de vrit approche pour les anglais : font-ils partie du club UE ou non ? S’ils disent non et bien l’cosse proclamera son indpendance et rejoindra La zone euro, la donne sera ainsi clarifie. Je respecte le choix des suisses ou des norvgiens d’tre en dehors de l’UE comme je respecterais celui des anglais ou des gallois. Mais ce qui n’est plus acceptable c’est cette politique du “un pied dedans, un pied dehors”. Aux anglais de dire dmocratiquement en 2016 ou 2017 si Charles de Gaulle avait raison ou tord :-)

  145. avatar
    Marcos

    Nations and sovereign states have the right to decide what to do with their future. Leave the EU is as rightful for them as it is to leave the UK for Scotland. It’s not the solution though. It’s just one of the consequences of the horrible way the fat cats of Europe have been managing the union. Austerity policies and excess of nationalism are to blame.

  146. avatar
    Kevin

    If the EU does not agree to reforms like no free movement of labour to the UK ,the reinstatement of British fishing rights in British waters and tearing up of the Lisbon treaty which introduced us to federalism then we would be better off out . We are not European we are Britons , we are not a star on somebody’s flag , we never voted for it ,we don’t want it .

  147. avatar
    Eduardo Galhardo Campos

    No!! Pls don’t !!!
    It would awful for EU and quite bad for UK. It gives biz-friendly examples being sometimes the only reasonable voice around. All the I numerous exports UK to EU need red-tapes as much as you need
    Sand in your flour. I’m against!

  148. avatar
    Vinko Rajic

    NO , Britain is one of the most important EU countries . Britain is very good for EU development . Really bad if Britain decide to exit EU .

  149. avatar
    Eugenia Serban

    Maybe French people don t like UK in the EU or they don t care. But I Do, I am Romanian , love UK, speak their language, learned their history, and I Would love to visit freely that country without a visa. Which I may not get, being Romanian, …low class european. Let us be united, at least theoretically, because we know we re not equal, but at least we can travel if we afford it.

    • avatar
      Kevin

      Every man (or woman) is born equal . The problem is not the people but the living standards created by governments and the company’s which thrive on your low wage demands .The wages may seem high to you but they not so attractive to us .Mass immigration to the UK has seen wage compression and stresses put on social services . Youth unemployment is also a problem in that the low paid jobs were the ones that school leavers used to do as they moved from education to the workplace . Sorry Eugenia mass immigration has caused many problems that we can do without . For you I would suggest you learn a skill that we require . You would then be given a visa ,receive a wage that we don’t have to subsidise through in work benefits and you can enjoy your life in the UK , as equals .

    • avatar
      Marcel

      There is no reason for any kind of political union anywhere in Europe. We don’t need hordes of Eastern Europeans coming here to undercut us and driving down wages for us. Stay away.