The third debate in our series “25 Years after the fall of the Berlin Wall” focuses on Romania. With a population of 20 million it is, after Poland, the second largest former-Communist country in Europe. According to Transparency International, it is also one of the countries suffering most from corruption in the EU. In fact, only 26% of Romanians say they trust their national government, whereas 60% say they trust the European Union.
Over the past two years, a series of high-profile incidents have put Romania in the news for the wrong reasons. In the summer of 2014, Mirel Palada (at the time government spokesman) banned Romanian journalist Biro Attila from his Facebook page, adding in the comments:
And this is how we roast some more anti-government piglets on the spit, and we block them and down a beer in the memory of the souls of those has-beens who are no more. (…) What a pleasure to execute him electrically! How adroit am I to kill by blocking the objective, therefore anti-government journalists. Hey, puffy ones, you don’t even know what pleasure you give me.
Prime Minister Victor Ponta took no action against his spokesman, but Palada later apologized and resigned. In December 2013, Ponta’s government passed a series of measures granting immunity to elected officials from corruption charges, an act dubbed “Black Tuesday” by the press (though the new laws were ultimately overturned by the Constitutional Court). In the wake of the incident, the B1TV station was fined after one of its journalists, Robert Turcescu, called the “Black Tuesday” decisions a “strong blow applied to the rule of law”.
We spoke about these issues with Biro Attila, the journalist criticised by Mirel Palada for his “anti-government” stance. Does he believe that pressure from the Romanian government on both media outlets and the judiciary is something to be worried about?
We put the same question to Mirel Palada, former spokesperson of Victor Ponta’s government currently State Counselor for the Government of Romania. What would he say about the status of freedom of speech and the press in Romania?
When we turn against the law and we try to project our political passions and to contest the law, I think this is just a personal and punctual issue and we can always dwell on the details, and my hope is that, after this very hot and passionate electoral year which has just finished, Romanians will slowly find patience and the wisdom to take a more relaxed and non-partisan stance.
Back in 2012, we had a debate on the Romanian Constitutional Court’s decision to declare invalid the outcome of a referendum to impeach former President Băsescu. Senior EU leaders publicly supported the Court’s decision, leading to a debate on whether or not the EU should be interfere with Romania’s internal political and judicial decisions. We had a comment sent in by one of our users, Gabriela, who fully supported the EU getting involved when a government is seen to overstep its constitutional boundaries:
I think EU pressure on the Romanian Government to respect the constitution would help to maintain the rule of law. Romania is a young democracy and, as has been the case now, its presence in the European Union can help improve the situation if the EU takes an active role.
We put this comment to Claudiu Crăciun, an activist and lecturer in Political Science at Romania’s National University of Political Studies and Public Administration. As an academic, how does he view the EU’s pressure on the Romanian Government and Court system?
What do you think? Should the EU play an active role in ensuring that Romania’s constitutional rights and civic freedoms are upheld? Or should change come from within the society? Join the debate!
109 comments Post a commentcomment
Yes, there’s always some will, mostly on newly-restored democracies, to overstep constitutions and this is bad for each and every country and for EU as a whole.
Since we are all inter-connected and since EU legislation superpositiones national one, it is only legitimate that EU oversees countries stick within constitutional boundaries, to avoid weakening EU rules.
This is basically the same as with immunology: each country is vaccinated against totalitarianism by means of constitution and the society as a whole is protected by each individual getting vaccinated.
Let’s work together to protect each and every one of us.
@Robintel
QUESTION:
Why should countries superior to the EU in matters of law and corruption supine to such a corrupt institution called the ‘EU’?
ANSWER:
They should NOT!
Really. Isn’t that so ? Let’s all hold hands and start singing Ode to Joy…
No.
Well, maybe they don’t want freedom. Just keep them away from the EU if they prefer something other than democracy.
No don’t say that they don’t want freedom because this isn’t the fault of the population but the fault is of the government and of those people called “president” and all the politicians that don’t cares about the country but only for themselves . They don’t prefer something other as you say they just need a good person who really cares about the country and value it at its maximum capacity and its beauty.
So, if you are in the EU you are democratic, but if you are not part of it you are not? Great logic there, buddy. Get off the internet and read some books
yes, they should
Certainly should! It is very important to monitor vary carefully if the introduced E.U.rules are in reality and everyday life used, because the political and economic elite doesn’t do that at all! There are millions of Hungarian, German and Gypsy minorities in Romania since many centuries but the Romanian political elite is acting as they wouldn’t exist! In fact Romania shouldn’t have beem taken to E.U.before it didn’t give the same autonomy rights to the 1.5 million Hungarians, what south Tirol, Scotland or Catalonia, Finland gave to their minorities! And don’t forget, we Hungarians just peacefully asked for 25 years! But if we just get humiliation and no help for our human rights, we can fight for it!
Do you realize that you are nothing but a racist stub and your attitude is utterly anti-European? Who told you that YOUR Hungarian minority is deprived of rights in Romania? Do you actually know what are you talking about? By the way irredentism has no place in EU.
I think Hungary should under monitoring too,democracy is dying there…And talki8ng about autonomy u should receive autonomy in Mongolia..Is like giving invaders a piece of land…Ferenc,come and fight for it …Ur nation is the nonly no-european nation bit,u have the most demands..Hungarians have schools from entry lvl to universiti in their language,have same rights like romanians..what do u want more???
.
No, it would be antidemocratic.
They should stay out of a sovereign state’s affairs.
How can you even question that?
That’s what the EU is supposed to do. Countries like Romania came into the EU to get some help in develpping their political and social structure. Let’s start the job and do not wait until that guy from the Kremlin offers any help for worse.
@Dirk Schönhoff
The country you mention + others should NOT have been allowed into the EU in the first place.
The EU offers a lower standard of democracy and accountability than my country and indeed several other Northern EU countries – it needs to clean-up its own act before the debate can truly start.
The hungarian people ask for autonomy peacefully like this Ferenc Lzr
http://youtu.be/7Oa_27MDZXY
That is peacefull?
They have same rights like anyone else in romania, what else could they want?
Hungary seems like they prefer russia and there politics. In ukrain is the same old story with autonomy. They want autonomy now when the ukrain people are in war. So please anyone, can you told me what kind of people are the hungarians? If they act like this…
Radu C. Sticlea
NO, the EU is far too undemocratic as-is plus it has relatively high-levels of corruption and suffers from ‘secret-steering’, examples of both include:
No budget sign-off for the best part of 2 decades.
Money mysteriously shuffled over to fulfill the Galileo spy satellite system.
Acceptance of countries into the EU when said countries have very poor legal systems.
Acceptance of countries into the EU when said countries are endemically corrupt.
Refusal to sanction countries like Germany and France when they stray from agreed financial targets.
The accrual of ‘new powers’ based on discussion rather than via the democratic process example Juncker’s appointment.
Refusal to penalise countries like the PIGS [countries] when they deliberately abuse the CAP system.
As a Swiss I watch this debate with horror, so because Romanians do things differently you wish to punish them, yes there is corruption, yes there is mismanagement and nepotism and the arrogance of the powerful and wealthy, name me one European country in the west where this doesnt exist, remember the french president who had a entire secret second family. or the one who alledgedly got money from Ghadafi, or how about British prime ministers connections to the elites that pump money into their political campaigns, and what about Obama appointing campaign contributors to comfortable embassy positions in places like Switzerland etc., yes Romania is probably more corrupt but the EU knew this when they let them join the EU, you cant marry a dog and then complain when he pisses on the floor, you knew exactly what you were doing.The best intervention would be the implementation of Swiss style direct democracy in Romania and every European country, let the people decide their destiny, let the politicians know that they answer to the people not the other way around, stop concentrating all the power in the hands of elected elites who think they are better than common people, fact is they arent as their corrupt behaviour prooves time and time again, the people must have say in the running of their nation, give them this and you will have a rich prosperous country like Switzerland, deny them this and end up with Romania, Nigeria, Yemen etc.
Questions…
EXTRAS DIN #CONSTITUTIA #ROMANIEI
ART. 1 Statul roman (1) Romania este stat national, suveran si independent, unitar si indivizibil. (2) Forma de guvern?mant a statului roman este republica. (3) Romania este stat de drept, democratic si social, in care demnitatea omului, drepturile si libert?tile cet?tenilor, libera dezvoltare a personalit?tii umane, dreptatea si pluralismul politic reprezint? valori supreme, in spiritul traditiilor democratice ale poporului roman si idealurilor Revolutiei din decembrie 1989, si sunt garantate. (4) Statul se organizeaz? potrivit principiului separatiei si echilibrului puterilor – legislativ?, executiv? si judec?toreasc? – in cadrul democratiei constitutionale. (5) In Romania, respectarea Constitutiei, a suprematiei sale si a legilor este obligatorie.
ART. 2 Suveranitatea (1) Suveranitatea national? apartine poporului roman, care o exercit? prin organele sale reprezentative, constituite prin alegeri libere, periodice si corecte, precum si prin referendum. (2) Nici un grup si nici o persoan? nu pot exercita suveranitatea in nume propriu.
ART. 3 Teritoriul (1) Teritoriul Romaniei este inalienabil. (2) Frontierele t?rii sunt consfintite prin lege organic?, cu respectarea principiilor si a celorlalte norme general admise ale dreptului international. (3) Teritoriul este organizat, sub aspect administrativ, in comune, orase si judete. In conditiile legii, unele orase sunt declarate municipii. (4) Pe teritoriul statului roman nu pot fi str?mutate sau colonizate populatii str?ine.
ART. 4 Unitatea poporului si egalitatea intre cet?teni (1) Statul are ca fundament unitatea poporului roman si solidaritatea cet?tenilor s?i. (2) Romania este patria comun? si indivizibil? a tuturor cet?tenilor s?i, f?r? deosebire de ras?, de nationalitate, de origine etnic?, de limb?, de religie, de sex, de opinie, de apartenent? politic?, de avere sau de origine social?.
ART. 5 Cet?tenia (1) Cet?tenia roman? se dobandeste, se p?streaz? sau se pierde in conditiile prev?zute de legea organic?. (2) Cet?tenia roman? nu poate fi retras? aceluia care a dobandit-o prin nastere.
ART. 6 Dreptul la identitate (1) Statul recunoaste si garanteaz? persoanelor apartinand minorit?tilor nationale dreptul la p?strarea, la dezvoltarea si la exprimarea identit?tii lor etnice, culturale, lingvistice si religioase. (2) M?surile de protectie luate de stat pentru p?strarea, dezvoltarea si exprimarea identit?tii persoanelor apartinand minorit?tilor nationale trebuie s? fie conforme cu principiile de egalitate si de nediscriminare in raport cu ceilalti cet?teni romani.
ART. 7 Romanii din str?in?tate Statul sprijin? int?rirea leg?turilor cu romanii din afara frontierelor t?rii si actioneaz? pentru p?strarea, dezvoltarea si exprimarea identit?tii lor etnice, culturale, lingvistice si religioase, cu respectarea legislatiei statului ai c?rui cet?teni sunt.
ART. 8 Pluralismul si partidele politice (1) Pluralismul in societatea romaneasc? este o conditie si o garantie a democratiei constitutionale. (2) Partidele politice se constituie si isi desf?soar? activitatea in conditiile legii. Ele contribuie la definirea si la exprimarea vointei politice a cet?tenilor, respectand suveranitatea national?, integritatea teritorial?, ordinea de drept si principiile democratiei.
ART. 9 Sindicatele, patronatele si asociatiile profesionale Sindicatele, patronatele si asociatiile profesionale se constituie si isi desf?soar? activitatea potrivit statutelor lor, in conditiile legii. Ele contribuie la ap?rarea drepturilor si la promovarea intereselor profesionale, economice si sociale ale membrilor lor.
ART. 10 Relatii internationale Romania intretine si dezvolt? relatii pasnice cu toate statele si, in acest cadru, relatii de bun? vecin?tate, intemeiate pe principiile si pe celelalte norme general admise ale dreptului international. ART. 11 Dreptul international si dreptul intern (1) Statul roman se oblig? s? indeplineasc? intocmai si cu bun?-credint? obligatiile ce-i revin din tratatele la care este parte. (2) Tratatele ratificate de Parlament, potrivit legii, fac parte din dreptul intern. (3) In cazul in care un tratat la care Romania urmeaz? s? devin? parte cuprinde dispozitii contrare Constitutiei, ratificarea lui poate avea loc numai dup? revizuirea Constitutiei.
ART. 12 Simboluri nationale (1) Drapelul Romaniei este tricolor; culorile sunt asezate vertical, in ordinea urm?toare incepand de la lance: albastru, galben, rosu. (2) Ziua national? a Romaniei este 1 Decembrie. (3) Imnul national al Romaniei este “Desteapt?-te romane”. (4) Stema t?rii si sigiliul statului sunt stabilite prin legi organice.
ART. 13 Limba oficial? In Romania, limba oficial? este limba roman?.
ART. 14 Capitala Capitala Romaniei este municipiul Bucuresti.
Ferenc Lzr what is the connection between the “autonomy” and the respect of constitutional rights? You have the impression that Romania is the dictatorial regime, as governed under Orban? At the moment, Romania is consciously building and maintaining the proper functioning of democratic institutions. As regards the rights of minorities, they do have schools, universities, the right to study in their language, Hungarian investors have access to the Romanian market, the Hungarians’ representatives have been almost permanently part of the Romanian Government, not only Parliament, therefore with a solid power at the executive level. Moreover, we happily accepted the oversight of the EU relevant institutions since the beginning of our accession. In the same time, at the level of the society, there is no real “against the Hungarians” attitude. So what is your point? I mean what are your intentions, apart from dwelling into the propaganda promoted by Orban’s party?
Yes , EU should work more on to help hew member states to become like old EU members . For the most EU should help fight crime and corruption . Nationalist usually answer that they don’t need help but when they need money than is help excellent . Greece is excellent example , they can’t ask Germany to help them to fight crime and corruption but they can ask for more money . Give money and don’t tell me anything . Croatia is in 5-10 years time going to have the same problem like Greece today .
Yes of course, EU should intervene in this case.
Just like in Orban’s Hungary, correct ?
True,we should start with Hungary and Victor`s Orban regim ….democracy is dying in Hungary
No, that is a task for Romania’s institutions.
The EU may be not the best example of democracy. However debating, monitoring and publishing is always good to combat corruption. Could Romania has reach the recent level of ‘war on corruption’ without the support of the EU?
Frans, I agree with you about the EU. Not the best model on democracy and flawed as all democratic systems. However, I disagree about the intervention. Eu has given Romania and other states some guidelines, but not much more. Years before accession and continuously after entering the EU, Romania has fought with corruption at all levels, created by decades of communism that has perpetuated such behavior into the minds of the population, stained all institutions and public figures and had become the norm. Such changes occur of course with punishment and persecution through law and through changing the mindset of the population, through education. Unfortunately, many of the elderly and even most of the middle-aged population have grown up in a regime where this was something normal and even encouraged. And newer generations were faced with such acts and some learned to propagate this and do the same, others to turn a blind eye and others felt it was wrong and they are fighting against it. A couple of years before accession, Romania has invested in a new institution (as far as I know the only one of its kind among the EU states, but I might be wrong) – it is the Anti-Corruption General Directorate that investigates corruption crimes at high levels, through public figures, such as ministers, MPs, law-makers, judges, mayors etc. This was a major step that has helped Romania to bring to justice many of the obscure dealings of the public figures and convicting them when found guilty. Step-by-step, this was the institution that politicians, doctors, judges etc have started to fear and even now, there are parties that want to disband it ! Low-level corruption still has to be fought hard and more and more of the population are trying to expose such cases. Romania has fought a hard-battle all by itself and even though it’s a long way to go to bring it to lower levels (you can never have 0 corruption, unfortunately), it has come a long way from where it was. You are right – what you mentioned about monitoring, debating and publishing such acts is of course why people keep winning the battles against corruption indeed!! We can all do a little where we can to combat this everywhere in the EU and stop this infection from spreading! Thank you for your thoughts and for contributing to a better Europe !
Exelant.
yes.and not only that European Union should play an activ role but European Union MUST play and active role becose this is the foundation of democracy and European Union -to protect the constitutional rights of all citizens of EU and to bring to justice all the criminals who generate crimes against humanity and are trying to destroy EU and all the free democratic world. Do not take in consideration any kind of kgb propaganda spread by the tyrant vladimir putin&co and do what you sign to do and respect what it is already written in the European Union Charta and UN Charta.
yes
Seeing as they are not able to do it themselves, yes.
And who’s up to decide when is the right time to “help them” ?
yes
We need a new constitution , the fight against corruption works, EU can help us of course but we need more time and prepared people to fight against corruption which is the biggest problem of Romania!
We need a new constitution that will fight corruption especialy in Cyprus, fall stop.
As you are ignoring the UK’s constitution, i dont see why?
No…. It would be AntiDEMOCRACTIC… Romania and Europe must develop together plans for future…Bruxelles is not Beijing !!!
Yes, you always talking about your constitution when it comes to the civil and minority rights , which constitution was founded by the communist dictator, Ceausescu! And Mihai Catalin is so big liar, he places a small bit of the Targu-Mures happenings of 1990, in which Hungarian student demonstrators were invaded by Romanian village people with forks, knives and other village tools, organized to come into the town by the local Romanian priest and some communist exsecurity leaders! And that lies are keeping the Romanian political elite for more than 25 years, they never investigated and punished those who organized for agressive and drunken peasants to start that fight in a 65% Hungarian town..That is the way they work even now after 25 years!
That’s exactly why you should live the “Hungarian Dream” under Orban’s “wise” leadership.
It’s funny how commenters cover all kinds of wrongdoing under “national sovereignty” and “democratic choice”. Like a teenager who wants “the right to do whatever he wants!” without bothering to see if what he wants is stupid and what his parents say makes sense.
Europe should be ruled democratically, just no on the ridiculous basis of a few mil citizens. Europe comprises of 400 mil citizens and if 201 mil say that civic liberties or anything else is good, then the others have to comply.
@Stavros Pagonidis
Rubbish – half of Europe is endemically corrupt whilst the Northern half has relatively low-levels of corruption.
I DO NOT WANT to pool my democracy with such countries UNTIL they have a track record of fairness.
Yes, please.
Yes, I think that Brussels should keep a close eye on Bucharest and should speak out whenever they see our politician drifting away from the common European values.
Those values being ? I also think Berlin should be closely monitored for ties with Putin. Uncle Sam have a good reason to think so. Who’s more “corrupt” ?
it should rather do its best in acting faster and respond to complaints from the third sector and quit the bull of drafting `reccomendations`, just to shut the NGOs up, recomendations which are not mandatory anyway. also it should better take care of how much it is letting itself be influenced by corporate lobbyists …
Ferenc Lzr, knives, forks and other village tools? What s this? A Frankenstein movie?
Stay in your hungary, if you dont like romania.
Ferenc Lzr, knives, forks and other village tools? What s this? A Frankenstein movie?
Stay in your hungary, if you dont like romania.
a big YES
a big YES
No. It’s up to majority of romanians to decide. Foreign interventions are just unacceptable IMHO. Actually why someone want to intervene in some other nation internal affairs unless there is a interest in that ?
well that is why the Eu established the cooperation-verification mechanism when Romania was admitted
What is the limit of “cooperation-verification” ? Who set the “depth” of interfering in others sovereign national matters ? To ignore the will 7,4 million is “deep” enough ?
well that is why the Eu established the cooperation-verification mechanism when Romania was admitted
EU you should start by offering REAL rights easy to claim for its citizens (sorry I forgot EU has no citizens just consumers). I filled a claim for B2B issues one year ago and never received any answer.
EU you should start by offering REAL rights easy to claim for its citizens (sorry I forgot EU has no citizens just consumers). I filled a claim for B2B issues one year ago and never received any answer.
Olivia and Catalin agape are just another examples how the 50 years dictatorship of Ceausescu blinded and manipulated many of Romanian people and filled them with hate to their minorities! Romania is certainly not ready for E.U.as they hate all other nationals whose culture and traditions they are not familiar with
..Catalin, i don’t have to go anywhere because I was born in Transylvania and my ancestors have lived there for 1100 years!
EU is made up of UNELECTED Bankers posing as “politicians” the EU is riddled with its own UNDEMOCRATIC flaws, let alone judging others.
Definitely YES for limiting the press access to information. However, in my opinion the EU should beging investing its time to investigating the meaningful end of the incompliance w/ its values. In example, start checking the member countries alignment to EU policy on the highly sensitive and risky situation in UKR – RU – and of the region at large. One may discover relevant things on the statutory incompliance, w/ far more rich in consequences than what a stupid RO politician official (spokesman) may fail in his relationship with a prestige journalist.
Definitely YES for limiting the press access to information. However, in my opinion the EU should beging investing its time to investigating the meaningful end of the incompliance w/ its values. In example, start checking the member countries alignment to EU policy on the highly sensitive and risky situation in UKR – RU – and of the region at large. One may discover relevant things on the statutory incompliance, w/ far more rich in consequences than what a stupid RO politician official (spokesman) may fail in his relationship with a prestige journalist.
Olivia, you call yourself educated after all above statements :-D. In fact, yes, we Huns were nomads in those centuries, ad you call us, just as the Saxons, Franks and Brittons
.. About your constitution- it wasn’t changed after the collapse of Ceausescu in 1989, was only made minor changes in it by your reform communist Iliescu, who ruled Romania for another 12 years!
Yes! Romnia People needuca?i EU help n huge amaunt of problems
YES, thanks to the EU our justice system has improved, a lot of corrupted politicians were sent to jail so Thank you and keep helping us Bruxelles
As about the presidential election- that was certainly a surprise which came after 25 years of postcommunist struggling the people in Romania realised they have to give up their postcommunist and narrow minded behaviour.. However that poor saxon president won’t change much of the mentality if even young, English speaking people like you hate their co-nationals, calling them homeless(bozgor ad you stated in many comments)..
As I see Romanians like Olivia hate all nationals here- the Huns, the British, the Russians, the Serbians.
Are you sure Romania is ready for a.multicultural Europe?!
Long live the EU and Bruxelles, help us to clean our political class :D
We should not judge a country only by those few examples. It is right, the former spokesperson of Victor Ponta’s government it’s an official person, therefore the hard words and harsh judgments are more than inadequate. But civil society in Romania is the one that amends every time, becoming stronger and more effective. Perhaps young Romanian Democrats took some time to mature, but now, increasingly more often prove his maturity.
Of course!|
YES
yes europe make the European sustainable values in Romania
Yes, the european support is necessary because even though the romanian justice successfully works, the mentality of politicians did not change much. Only their speach realy changed.
No, nein, njet- because:
* The EU is in limbo! It has no Constitution, is no State, has no constitutional oversight or overriding powers over other members Constitution. She or it is a political gigolo- with false teeth, no bite, relying on the ECJ, US & NATO!
* The EU’s attempt to misrepresent the Lisbon Treaty as “Constitution” is a fraud! It is only ratified by 18 confused member’s states and this process has been shelved/prolonged “INDEFINTELY”!
* Leaders “act- as if”- by disguise and subterfuge, mesmerizing members as if States were to remain sovereign- but to convince them to concede their sovereignty.
* The leadership is a self-selected group of the European political elite, aiming for a never ending career which depends on more & more- “enlargements”- and sees national sovereign Governments as obstacles!
* Sovereign member states need to intervene in the EU’s machinations and not the other way around!
“Sovereign member states need to intervene in the EU’s machinations and not the other way around!”
Yep, 100% agree
:)
::)
yes i think it would be good a cooperation on this topic in romania, cause rights/laws/authority are don’t realy colaborating one with another.
Catalin- I don’t have to present anything about how we imagine the Hungarian autonomy in Transylvania- just go to north Italy, see south Tirol, go to Spain and see Catalonia, or go see Scotland in U.K. We Hungarians are not immigrants in Romania, we are natives! Since 1100 years, so give us back our schools, churches, lands, forests, which the communist Romania stolen from our grandparents! And don-t come with ideas, that we are like separatists Russians and so, because our autonomy would not harm Romania’s integrity at all! Your political elite just doesn’t want to give back what was stolen from us by your communists, and they trying to present us to Europe as separatists! This kind of manipulation was used by the secret police of Ceausescu and it is used now as well when it comes to minorities(Huns, Germans, Russians, Gypsies) in Romania!
No . The EU needs to take a step back to being a trade block only . The EU on its current expansionist and interfering course we see Europe in tears
If you don’t, you will have Rusia at the Austria’s border
Cata Nan, what you are saying is again the manipulation what you used with on the Ceausescu era! Nobody was talking about all Transylvania, the 3 counties of Transylvania(Harghita, Mures, Covasna) are about the same size ad south Tirol in Italy and Huns are 75percent majority there! If you look it up in the recent history you’ll find out that Hungarian autonomy has existed there even in the communist time until 1966, when it was finished by your Ceausescu and the leaders of Mures- Hungarian autonomy county were jailed with false accusations! Just look it up in your recent communist history, it wasn’t so long ago…
And I agree with the education issue! We have learned Romanian language and culture besides our native Hungarian, now it would be the case that Romanians who came to work in the Hungarian counties should learn about our culture and language! But the big problem is, they never want to do that, they don-t respect our traditions, they’re trying to make non European laws by punishing us for our flags, symbols and traditions- which laws are made in 2014 as members of E.U.!
There should be NO flexibility on such issues, with and within the Cultural Regions of the EU.
E.U. Can’t do nothing. A Constitution is solely the responsibility of the nations people. Unless we go Federal we’ll never be a sharp organized and solidary european society. Just a bunch of countries trying to take advantage of others weaknesses. United in what’s good for business for some and apart in what’s not. This is the real discussion. An European Government ? An European Society ? An European Fiscal System ? An European Public Debt ? An European real Budget ? A Europe that cares to evolve together ? We are so deep rooted in the notions of Nations. If we share the same values why don’t we take the final step ? We would all benefit from a true political union. Unless we do that, we’re just playing the pretending game.
Hahaha, you’re attacking the Brittons as well? But why you’re living in UK at the moment? Perhaps you’re one of those Romanians who stealing benefits from other nations, that is why you’re attacking all nationals who aren’t Romanian. This is the mentality of a young Romanian woman, living in UK, dear Europe debate- what can you expect from those illiterate villagers thousands who are leaded and manipulated by their orthodox priests?!
Hahaha, you’re attacking the Brittons as well? But why you’re living in UK at the moment? Perhaps you’re one of those Romanians who stealing benefits from other nations, that is why you’re attacking all nationals who aren’t Romanian. This is the mentality of a young Romanian woman, living in UK, dear Europe debate- what can you expect from those illiterate villagers thousands who are leaded and manipulated by their orthodox priests?!
Those YouTube video is taken after one football match in Bucharest: Romania- Hungary 1-1 :-) so, all your placed videos are manipulations and lies, same what your communist Ceausescu government did for 40 years with Europe! But in the 21.st century noone normal would beleive those manipulation in E.U.
Your communist Ceausescu government called terrorists and foreign interests separarists the Hungarian protestant priest and his followers in 1989, when they started the revolution in 1989! If we Huns were not there in Transylvania to start that, you might not be part of thr Nato and E.U.- don’t forget it! You might still be with similar prospectives as Ucraine, who waited 25 years with their postcommunist leaders..
Dear Jason and Iwan! I hope you and your government will watch closely such dangerous woman like Olivia who is so racist and hates everyone who doesn’t agree with her manipulated lies! It is very strange she called herself a British, although she is denying your constitution
..
Olivia, you’ve insulted me and some others on this page, I wish to close the conversation with you! Yet, everybody knows that the Romanian revolution of 1989 of Timisoara started with our Hungarian priest, Mr. Tks Lszl, who is deputy president of the European Parlament at the moment! I hope he will present all the lies and manipulation what you’re using, which are the same as communist Ceausescu did 26 years ago! Maby you’re a daughter of some ex security communist, who claimed asylum in U.K. in large numbers?!
Hahaha :-D. Romanian immigrant Olivia Sena, who run away from her country to live and study on benefits of the U.K. is trying to teach Brittish law doctor about Brittons constitution…it is a perfect ecample what Romanians did with Hungarians after they let them living in Transylvania from the 18.th century…
Ferenc Lzr If you and Olivia Sena keep insulting each other you will be barred from our page. Please keep it civil.
Debating Europe, I haven’t insulted in any way, I just asked her how and why did he move to U.K. ad she is so deeply concerned about large Romania? Can you just take the effort and read over her insults and incitements not only on me but also on a member of European Parlament, Mr
T?kes Lszl!
Debating Europe can you stop the racist insults made by Olivia Sena or you’re waiting for other witnesses?! This context can clearly show how racists and non tolerants some Romanians are, even the educated ones, when others don’t agree about their false, invented history! What did you study in U.K. Olivia, certainly not tolerance in multicultural Europe
..
You are right Jason, I studied the same history in Budapest! Where did you study yours, Olivia Sena? Certainly not in Britain, it might have been some brainwashing course somewhere in East Romania?
Good source that one Olivia- The Development of the Lszl T?kes case- if you read all carefully you will learn who and how it started the 1989 revolution of Romania, fact what you previously denied on your previous comment above…
Jason is right, Romania was formed in 1866, yet Transylvania was part of Austro- Hungary empire that time. Transylvania became part of Romania for the first time only in 1920 with the Trianon treaty, although some Romanians have lived there from the 18.th century..the nomad Hungarians arrived in the 9.th century :-)
I’m afraid that you learned a complete false history introduced in the communist era of Ceausescu on Romania! But I have good news for you- all European historians agree that Romania is a new, modern state dating back to 1866 and 1920, you have to face that whether you like it or not! You’re even “younger” thsn U.S.A.and don’t come with Dacians here, which has nothing to do with Romanians, was just a tribe among hundreds of tribes conquered that time by Romans..good night, learn some true history, not the one invented by Ceausescu!
You’re ridiculous Olivia! We are not claiming any lands, neither we want to steal, we just claiming the samy autonomy rights what south Tirol has in Italy, or Scotland in U.K.! If you’re denying that, it is another example of the Ceausescu era brainwashing in Romanian society! Because you’ve just stated above- we are the largest minority in east Europe, especially in Transylvania!
Sorry Romanians and Hungarians as well as all Europeans- my comments might look outside of context, but some Romanian comments and users were banned from this page as their insults and manipulations were to much for ththis site…They wrote: ” Dear Ferenc, thanks for your message. Olivia Sena’s comments became abusive, and a decision was made to ban her from the page, resulting in her comments being automatically deleted. Facebook doesn’t allow for comments from banned users to be shown. We appreciate your replies may now appear out of context, however we will not take the step of deleting them. In our eyes that would be manipulation. If you feel uncomfortable with your comments still appearing please feel free to delete them. ” I wouldn-t delete all my comments, so the society might learn about civic freedom and civil rights here!
It is interesting how Olivia Sena after was banned from Facebook came back under the name of Soy Su Joya! Dear Debate Debating Europe I just hope that you won’t ban her use of debate this time, just let all Europe see the hate and manipulation what some Romanians use towards their minorities present in Transylvania since 1100 years! If we’re asking our legitimate minority rights what’s widely used throughout Europe, they call us terrorists, separatists and barbar Huns. However a I personally not surprised after the 45 years Ceausescu brainwashing and another 25 years in which period they still denying the true history of recent past, the start of revolution of 1989!
Have you read meanwhile some history about Transylvania not being Hungarian and habited in majority by Romanians? Or are you still inventing stuff to denigrate romanians?
without an army any region is destined for instability
The EU/ECB just blatantly violated its own Treaty’s by allowing the ECB to start buying bonds which is specifically prohibited as per article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Who’se gonna step in and protect the taxpayer from the inevitable losses that will have to be made good?
And yes, this ‘debate’ seems another EU attempt at stamping out diversity, the EU will not rest until all laws are the same bad EU laws everywhere and everyone is a drone that will praise the EU non stop.
I hope to live and see some kind of debate series “25 years after the EU”.
Myself and many others in Netherlands will certainly celebrate if and when the undemocratic EU suffers its inevitable demise.
What Eastern Europeans should understand, for us the EU is a step back in democracy and governance. We had it better before the EU.
I agree with marcel..
The eu is a non democratic corporate american controlled fiasco. Im also in the netherlands and i work for an extremely large organization and ill tell you the word EU makes people puke.
We in the netherlands need to get rid of the eu extreemists, vote them out so to say and the sooner the better..
The majority of europeans dont want free trade with america, we dont want gmo,s, we dont want bleached chicken, beef full of hormones or other american garbage. Totally ignored.
Referendums Totally ignord.
They in the eu get petitions from all over the eu , thousands upon thousands of sinatures and they change the rules or ignore it all together. Quite disturbing actually . How dare they ???
The list with democratic violations is endless..
In holland our schools , roads , pensions, standard of living , everything is breaking down because of the eu siphoning of hard earned taxpayers money.
35 billion per year to brussels and another 8 billion per year for financing loans because we cant print our own money.
Printing our own money costs nothing, there goes the financing costs, then getting rid of brussels , do i need say more..
We need to intervene in brussels and stop the plundering…..!
For eastern europeans , look elsewhere for democracy, in the west it was diluded a long time ago.
We have pretend democracy, like in the usa, like a chocolate teapot, useless.
And in brussels they dare talk about constitutions, its a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Unreal !!!
For certaîn things intervention maybe for the common good. România has the last of Europe’s ancient Forests with eco system’s in balance over thousands of years. Within only a few years the Austrian company Schweighofer will have destroyed these, with Romanian government’s blessing. YES, the EU should intervene as the local and global implications of this mass destruction far out-weighs that of a persistant military attack on this region from Austria