According to Eurobarometer, 77% of EU citizens consider themselves to be religious. Catholics are by far the largest religious group in the EU, accounting for 48% of all Europeans, while Protestants make up 12% and Eastern Orthodox Christians make up 8%. Taken together, agnostics and atheists account for 23%, while Muslims (the largest non-Christian religious group) represent 2% of the EU population.
Can all these different religions and beliefs get along together peacefully? How can we ensure that religious diversity in Europe is a strength and not a source of tension? According to a 2012 poll, 39% of Europeans feel that religious discrimination is widespread (though 51% say it is rare).
To give you an idea about religious diversity in Europe, we’ve put together some relevant facts and figures. Check out our infographic below (click for a bigger image).
We had a comment sent in by Dogaru, arguing that a strong secular divide between personal religious beliefs (which should be kept private) and shared public spaces or institutions (such as schools, hospitals, or the civil service) should be maintained.
I might sound odd, but I think that a [way to improve religious tolerance in the EU] might be for everybody to keep their religion beliefs to themselves in their own private spaces, and not to show them off in public spaces.
To get a response, we put Dogaru’s suggestion to Alan Murray, President of the European Network on Religion and Belief. How would he respond?
We also spoke to Elsa Ray, from the Collectif Contre l’Islamophobie en France (CCIF). She was strongly opposed to the idea, arguing that religious belief is an integral part of an individual’s identity:
Religious belief is a part of your identity, and you cannot ask a human being to leave a part of their identity at home. It’s like asking someone not to be black in public. It’s not possible! The problem is not in displaying our religious beliefs in public spaces, the problem is how modern European societies can make sure that every citizen can live together in peace, without regard to their race, gender, sexual preferences, religious beliefs, etc.
You cannot ask people to be Muslim at home, but not to be Muslim in the street. So, I believe the challenge here is to make sure that European governments and societies make sure that all citizens can live together in peace.
To get another perspective, we also put Dogaru’s comment to Robin Sclafani, Director of CEJI – A Jewish Contribution to an Inclusive Europe. How would she respond?
Should people keep their religious beliefs to their own private spaces? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions!
Image credits: CC / Flickr Catholic Church England and Wales
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Depends if you believe in freedom of speech or not.
Free will allows choice. One has a choice to be a religious exhibitionist or have some discretion, intelligence, and class in revelation of private matters. Why does anyone beside you and your god need to know how much you love Jesus or Allah or Yahweh? I don’t care and don’t want to hear about it, thanks.
a belief is not supported by any rational fact. its like be thought a fool or open your religious mouth and remove all dought. those who chose to pee their pants in public are laught at. they have the right to laugh at the less educated fool
@John Cunningham, does your sense of superiority over people with belief come from any platform of enlightenment, or merely an assumption that what you believe (aka there is nothing to believe in) is the right thing to believe?
Well, freedom of speech cuts both ways actually. If someone expresses his religious/political/etc. belief in public on the basis of freedom of speech, on the same basis another can insult them, mock them,shun them, criticise them “verbally” denounce them. And although Europe is historically Christian, official Europe ought to be neutral.. If the second person is accused however of verbal abuse, then the first should also be accused of intentional procytilism / provocation/disrespect of the other person’s religion. If you wish to show off your faith/views/etc , you should be ready to take consequences of the same level. If someone goes dressed up in an interview,instead of being religion-neutral, the employer has the right to turn them down based on this If racism towards race/religion/etc is a crime, then religious aspects should be restricted at home and relevant temples as well. As ( kind of ) a chistian myself, I do not show it somehow, unless asked, in Europe and in Muslim countries where I worked in. I do not mind the religious public display by citizens in the way they dress (especially priests should not really be enforced not to show their clothes though), however if someone needs to pray 6 times per day at the middle of work or at the middle of the street or if they eat only special meat, it is their problem and they need to work around it themselves. You cannot expect your employer to make special arrangements for you to go pray , or because of Ramadan (you can work extra if you lose time there), neither can the traffic stop because you feel like you need to pray in the middle of the street. Neither can you expect others to change their eating habits because your religion dictates something else.It is not the job of a common cantine to prepare different kinds of food based on each ones preferences/religion//etc. Take it or leave it. Public officials though should be religion neutral at all cases. I would rather that even a Muslim female doctor is not dressed like one when she does her work.Same with wearing a cross. It might be easier to enforce certain public dress for these people, e.g. medical practicioners ought to wear the medical robe and medical hair cover, law officials/judges , etc. should wear the black robe and the rest should wear “neutral” clothes.The problem is when people based on their religion start making demands of others. There should be no option: I cannot do this job duty / I demand this change because I am a Muslim/Christian/ Buddhist/Jew etc. In this case you are fired and/or can move back to your homecountry.Even if you cannot eat the food offered , you go buy/make your own. The problems faced is that certain religions demand more of their subjects to the degree of infringing of the neutrality required and to expect others to accommodate your needs…However, as a whole religions and history need to be taken into account. West has been traditionally more Christian, etc, Middle East is Muslim and Far East is Buddhist/Induistic/etc. When whole nations have been shaped by these religions, the nations themselves and their traditional religious aspects cannot be tore down. Europe and West ought to be full of Churches, Middle East full of Mosques and Asia full of their own temples. Again based on the freedom of religion and relative freedom of movement certain groups demand special “accommodations” based on their religion disrespecting the traditional one especially when such accommodations are not offered the other way around for others in their own home countries.e.g. I do not think there are many churches or buddhist temples in most of Middle East but I might be wrong.
In the sense that there should be a strict secular divide between public institutions and private beliefs? Yeah, sure. But not in the sense that people should be forced to hide their religious beliefs.
@James McManama
Sounds good BUT ‘strict’ like the French is itself divisive.
Alex you put the case well. Religions should not consider themselves so precious that they expect to have special accords or be treated specially.
You explained it well.
As long as no harm is being done or as long as you’re not being forced to participate in any religion against your will, or as long as the said religion doesn’t preach violence, I don’t see how you could possibly limit the free and public expression of someone’s religious beliefs. And in the first place, why would anyone want to do that?? I completely agree with the opinion expressed by Mr. Alan Murray. We cannot have freedom of speech and limit public expression of religious beliefs in the same time. I don’t accept the argument that someone might feel uncomfortable when seeing or hearing public expression of religious beliefs. Feeling always comfortable is not a human right. Freedom of speech is. How can we talk about tolerance in all other areas if we are intolerant towards religion?
For argument’s sake, can I choose to criticize/insult someone’s religion – in speech only, of course?
@Prabhakar, plenty of people do.
I think that question is misplaced, it’s not about keeping the beliefs (or absence of them) private or not, it is about practising religion in private, or in private centres, where religious groups DON’T interfere in politics, or vice versa.
Nor in education: religion shouldn’t be taught in school (yes, history of religions, taught by history teachers). If you want to learn about any particular religion, you have catechesis class, and you can do it on Sunday or your free time, NOT at school.
In the school maybe they could give value to this, adding some extra points to your school grading, as they give value in some countries to external music class, for example,. They should give value to any other activities, for example, external martial arts classes, etc. Depending on the dedication (hours per week), and value (I consider a bit more important music class than religious one; but that’s another debate)
I totaly agree with you. Religion could be taught without forcing students to follow a specific religion or dogma. The same applies for other institutions. Hospitals just came into my mind. I have to admit that religious-related organizations offer great help for patients and their work shouldn’t be stopped. We have to adoid proseltisysm also in this case.
I agree that religious beliefs and religious practices are two different matters. However, one is absolutely inseparable from the other, because both are on the same coin of right – freedom of expression.
Religious beliefs are thoughts that don’t do any harms to social world. Beliefs are therefore absolute and are impossible to be regulated. Whereas, religious practices are expressions of religious beliefs, and these involve overt acts that may cause harm to society, and therefore, they can be subject to governmental regulation. As a rule, religious practices should be allowed in public unimpeded, if there is no harm to any anyone or society in general in consonance to the principle of tolerance…
Both are part of freedom of expression that cannot be violated… practicing of religious beliefs in public is in itself an exercise of one’s right to freedom of expression protected by laws on human rights and the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights of which EU is committed to uphold…
I Completely agree!
I would argue for the exact opposite. Religion needs teaching more in schools, if only for the purposes of understanding. I don’t mean indoctrination (which is not teaching) I mean a wide ranging curriculum that in depth examines the differences and similarities between all religions. Religious history is a good idea too, possibly a separate subject matter though, much like art and art history.
Yes, please – ABSOLUTELY. Live & let live.
@Ray De Bono
Clearly you are NOT a proponent of free speech then!
Balance is fragile but can be managed. It is not possible to keep religious beliefs totaly private. But, is it right to discriminate people due to their religion or other qulities and characteristics? There are special public bulidings as churches where everybody can worship whatever he/she believes but we have to show respect in other public activities and spaces such as workplace or school and show “neutral” attitude and behaviour avoiding procelhytism. This could be a “medium” road. I’m not sure if it works but such solutions could save us from many upleasant situations. It seems that the opposite has not helped societies so far. We can live together in peace no matter what our colour, religion, ethnicity is.
Should people keep their religious beliefs private? Why? Everybody has differences of opinion. Example, our government believes school children under the ages of puberty must know all about homosexuality in detail. They are not trying to keep that to themselves are they?
Frankly, I would rather any child of mine knew all about different religions and how and why people cling to them, that the process and practice of deviant sex. Soon they will be teaching them of what we today consider gross, and in fifty years politicians may decide, as they are so caught up in it, that children must also know about their new game.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2935673/Ofsted-guide-bombard-11-year-olds-questions-lesbians.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11380250/Man-jailed-for-sexual-incident-with-a-Shetland-pony.html
What is wrong with a person discussing their religious belief? Surely exposing who you are is not now to be considered another thought police action? Out politicians have become quite mad. And who was it who said, ‘whom the God’s wish to destroy they first make mad’?
I hope your’re not anyone’s educator or even a mother. Considering homosexuals deviants is something that should belong to the XIX century. But I bet that’s not what your holly book says, so you prefer to be indoctrinated with medieval lines of “thought”.
One more reason to keep religion and supernatural non-sense out of modern society.
You would rather your child was brain-washed by religion, and be exposed to the variances of non-existent beings? Religious people argue and kill over whose imaginary friend is better. You don’t think it relevant that a child who has a one in ten* chance of being gay, should find out about before puberty, that the feeling they have may be shared by others? The idea of people of the same sex loving and kissing each other is ‘deviant’, but flying into tall buildings in the name of God is ok? Where is the logic in that? This is why religious doctrine should not be taught in schools and religion should be taught only as part of philosophical and cultural debate. Your argument regarding sexual deviancy is absurd.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/10-per-cent-population-gay-alfred-kinsey-statistics
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/10-per-cent-population-gay-alfred-kinsey-statistics
Catherine, I don’t know from which country are you coming from but in most European countries I’ve visited and lived in I have never seen an educational system where 5 year old children are taught about homosexuality. I’m not saying that does not happen, it might, but because I don’t consider homosexuality as a deviant behavior like you do, I also don’t see why can that be so wrong as you put it. The age factor is important of course, you’re not going to teach a 5yo about quantum physics, a child does not yet have the necessary knowledge to understand such complex subjects. The same goes at a social level. Anyway, getting back to the deviant part, and yes I know very well the meaning of the word, homosexuality is only deviant in your mind because you’re obviously indoctrinated to believe so. In my country (a quite conservative country actually) homosexuality is increasingly accepted and laws are put in place to protect homosexuals and make sure their human rights are not broken. Still at a medical level is considered as some kind of behavior disease, but social evolution is taking place and those absurd misconceptions are being removed and sent to the history books where they belong. As a medical professional, you should know better about homosexuality and human behavior. There’s amazing research being done in this area, you should take a look at it and leave the old misconceptions behind. It’s not because your’re a health professional that you have some kind of moral high ground to discuss social issues. Homosexuality is no medical pathology.
Well, you are really showing yourself up Catherine. Religion is absolutely a choice, and children generally get indoctrinated by the religious view of their parents in my experience. Being gay is not a choice and is certainly not ‘deviant’ as you put it – it may be a minority issue, but there is plenty of evidence that it has been around for thousands of years, and not just in humans. Please do educate yourself.
I realised I was ‘different’ at the age of about 5-6 and soon realised that ‘what I was’ was considered shameful and wrong. So I tried to ‘fit in’ with social and family expectations for many years, until I found others like me and survived the 80’s to fight for legal recognition and acceptance.
I still have to make a conscious decision if I want to hold hands in public, but I guess you will never be able to understand what that feels like.
So I agree with you about ‘freedom’ but there are elements of religious belief where uneducated and bigoted people ‘pick and choose’ the bits of religion that suit them and pass moral judgement (or worse) on others they ‘don’t approve of’.
It would have been wonderful to grow up in a school system where I was taught that I was ‘ok’, and I also think it would be great to have learnt about the Bible and the Koran etc – but as part of a balanced curriculum that should include Buddhism, Atheism, etc too.
I have never needed a ‘good book’ or an ‘imaginary friend’ to teach me how to be a decent tolerant human being, but maybe I was just lucky to have had very grounded parents.
@everyone. I think you’re being extremely harsh on Catherine here. If you look at sex in terms of it’s functionality then it’s purpose is for procreation. Therefore homosexuality is a deviation from the pragmatic element of sex as an activity. It is only when you start to look at sex in other forms (I.e. Recreational sex) that homosexuality starts to play a part. I can fully agree with the absolute lack of need to start teaching children about having sex for fun. Where that leads I never want to find out. It may well be appropriate for pubescent pre-adults to understand these things as part of understanding the changes they are/may be going through.
Also, somebody is implying God does not exist so why teach children religion. Well let me say as a counterpoint, God does exist and just because you disagree does not make you right. Besides which Catherine was promoting teaching religion based on a point of learning about all religions, not to be ‘brainwashed’ as you put it.
Agree with you 100%. Applaud your courage to call a spade a spade in an increasingly anti religious world. Now it’s controversial to uphold God’s commandments: sodomy is a sin and always will be, in the eyes of God Almighty. You’re ostracized for upholding that, but supporting perverted, deviant behavior, indecent acts is ok in these times. May God protect us from these Satanist influences and guide us all to the right path.
Btw I think the world needs educators like you, not the kind who dirty children’s minds with gross information and misguide them.
I believe that it’s not really necessary to keep religious belief private. Only that is a big discrepancy between believing and performing dogmatic activities that might interfere with other people rights. In this order, every cult should consider giving up some dogmatic issues that interfere in the public life of individuals and also the agressive religious propaganda, in order to allow others to live upon their choice.
@Joao:
Do you understand the word ‘deviant’? If you do, why is it you want to pretend homosexuality is so prevalent in children it should be taught to those as young as 5 to 11 years? Do you believe heterosexuality should be taught with such detail as well? And if you do, why is that? Did you suffer from not having it shoved down your childhood throat when you were a baby? Did you find yourself sexually impaired because as a five year old you were not taught where and how these various adult practice take place in detail.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deviant
Lets just address this forum as an example. Look how many ‘adult’ people who come here to write about the political preferences they have find they are too shy or afraid to openly address this issue. Yet, you want to force it on children of today who hardly have any time at all to be the innocents they thrive in. It is well known that children who are too young to understand this information become disturbed by it and begin to play act what they are absorbing, sometimes to the exclusion of all else. You couldn’t want that, could you?
An acquaintance of mine has a ‘thirteen year old’ son who, in his school mixed class of both boys and girls, had to watch an in depth film of adult biology covering all aspects of the sexual proclivity of adults in depth. He and two other children in his class collapsed and fainted in shock. An ambulance was called and they had to go home. Their parents were so angry they shook in horror.
What is going on with politicians they believe this is necessary? And why are you not wanting to address the result of all this ‘education.’ Such as child pregnancy on the rise, child rape on the rise. Children unable to learn as they suffer from emotional distress from having too much too soon. Why is it that is not making you angry. Oh, no, your angry rises from the idea children should protected from such an abusive programme.
And don’t play the politically correct game you are trying to play here with me. It may backfire on you. I am not religious. My knowledge in all of this is medical. I know in depth of the health issues that are not being taught to these kids. And it is not AIDS I am addressing. Far worse than that.
The culture of living all together we have the same air the same sun the same earth the same lord god allah yohova ….
Re: Catherine Benning – An acquaintance of mine has a ‘thirteen year old’ son who, in his school mixed class of both boys and girls, had to watch an in depth film of adult biology covering all aspects of the sexual proclivity of adults in depth. He and two other children in his class collapsed and fainted in shock. An ambulance was called and they had to go home. Their parents were so angry they shook in horror.
….. This is a very atypical 13 year old boy – I don’t believe you know this person at all. I can hardly believe this boy exists – this is laughable !! For god’s sake help yourself and stop deriving your sources of debate from the Daily Mail. lol
Love is a universal language for heart and soul
Have a nice time and be in peace moticne heart ??????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-idP23bHCg
there are specific laws about the way a worship should be taught, why keeping it private if its spreading is developed respecting the concepts of common sense and legality?
Ofcourse they should keep their beliefs or lack of beliefs private!!!!
Why should they be able to “impose” their beliefs on people that have no interest on them in the first place????
@Paulo Especial
So if someone says that they are ‘vegan’ for religious reasons is that an imposition of religious belief?
I just cannot correlate this assumption that me saying something like God be with you for example is pushing my religion on someone.
worst why should thy canvass into our homes to tell us all about the least they know whilst they are evil bastards everyone is question in mind.. why all the risk
Mathematics, the universal truth
Until you get into the realm of statistics. Or imaginary numbers. Or multi-dimensional systems.Shove in some string theory and quantum physics and relativity and well, it might all collapse as well
Keep it private,practice it at home and/or in church.
What we do is largely based on not repeating the our failures of the past and must be careful not to allow changes if it will be impossible to remove.. Take our past of recorded homosexual practices that caused the floods but now make legal for many to not only practice but to use the natural results of hetrosexuals having children for them to be adopted to live a lifestyle they were not born with. No thought to the heartbroken mother that for circumstances only known to herself had to surrender her child to the orphanage and be again devastated to know that the LGBT same sex couple have legally adopted her child.
No! There s no reason
What a crock from Elsa Ray
“Religious belief is a part of your identity, and you cannot ask a human being to leave a part of their identity at home. It’s like asking someone not to be black in public”……….Religion is a lifestyle choice, being Black isn’t
Those who choose to make religion the cornerstone of their life need to accept that there are others who couldn’t care less about it. Many on this earth accept the scientific reasoning on how the human race has evolved without needing an unfailing belief in storybooks written thousands of years ago
Each to his or her own, but do not pretend Religion is a mandatory part of everyone’s lives
When you are baptised the old person dies and a new one is born. You are marked indelibly for all eternity. It runs deeper than skin colour. It would be easier to change the colour of your skin.
Now whether you agree with that is irrelevant, completely irrelevant. Religion, the surface layer, the behaviours and rituals, … these are choices we make. The underlying reality of being a Christian is not a choice. It was a choice once, then we were baptised, the die is cast and we can never undo that. The time of choice is over.
By the way, I fully accept the scientific reasoning on how the human race has evolved … without needing an unfailing belief in storybooks written thousands of years ago.
@ Gavin
That is purely your belief not mine and there is no physical evidence to back up anything you say, as far as I’m concerned when you are baptised you get a wet head, nothing more.
As far as choice goes, a baby has no say in whether it wants to be baptised or not, that is a decision forced upon it by it’s parents. I’m sure there are many on this planet who have been baptised but exercised their freedom of choice not to follow a christian way of life, and they are no worse off because of it
@ Paul
My point is that what you believe is irrelevant. Freedom is not about me seeing life through your lens – I see it through mine.
Baptism changes you whether you choose it or not. I don’t have to convert to your way of seeing it.
I don’t mind you trying to convert me… it adds to the fun.
@ Gavin
I fully agree, everyone is entitled to believe what they want.
Far be it from me to be trying to convert anyone, I leave that to those with the beliefs that have no physical evidence to support them, it is they that have the job of trying to convince people
But I’m very interested in just how baptising a new born can change it in any way when it clearly has no understanding of what is going on?
I was wondering when someone would spot the obnoxious comparison Elsa Ray. That’s ignorance in the highest degree, nobody is born religious, there’s no Muslim child or Christian child, it’s all programmed, I guess Elsa Ray was programmed to believe what reason would not allow anyone else to believe.
@Ovi, I’d say you are right and wrong here. Nobody is born catholic etc. But I would say they possess the spirit that makes a life more than a collective of cellular matter propelled through existence by chemical and electrical impulses.
@Paul x, if religion is a choice or not is immaterial and inconsequential to the point you are berating. If I chose to be a star trek fan it is still going to become a part of my identity. It would be impossible for me to go from loving star trek in the privacy of my own home or when I know everyone surrounding me also enjoys star trek to not liking star trek when surrounded by other people. To be forced to pretend to not like star trek in public is therefore oppression of my identity/individuality. Does this enable you to understand? I know some atheists are so blinded by their dislike of religion they cannot see reason when it’s the subject matter, so I thought I’d put a non religious comparison for you. Hope this promotes understanding :)
~This is simply another method or thought oppression to imprison us all. The thought police are truly and openly with us, Yet, like sheep, we continue to allow them to take us to the slaughter and now, they are doing it in the open, whilst asking for our consent to it. They must be laughing their heads off.
http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/13/big-brother-the-thought-police-real-life-room-101-and-newspeak-1984-is-happening-now-4797075/
The ‘thought police’ is not an institution – it is a concept. You are totally mis-reading the article!! When anyone tries to control the way you think, you can refer to this as ‘thought control’, or ‘thought police’. Religion of course, is the largest concept of ‘thought police’ in action today.
Without religious thought control you would probably not be religious at all. Ultimately, your religious beliefs depend on where and when your parents were born. If they were born 3,000 years ago, you would be practicing idolatry and polytheism. If you were born and still living in Tehran today, you would probably be a muslin.
@Candy, simply not the case. People are religious because they have a spiritual need for it. Picture the world if you will before religion existed. How did it even begin if by your logic, people not brought up to be religious would not be religious. I think you are assuming religion can only exist within a preset religious organisation. If this was the case then new religions would never start. People are constantly trying to understand their relationship with God (or their spiritual life force, or whatever other term they perceive to be accurate) and it is simply because of the fundamental truth that we as living beings are more than the sum of our physical component parts. And frankly if we were not, what is human endeavour ultimately worth? Why bother to evolve a survival instinct at all if life, and the continuation of life has no meaning?
No!
It doesn’t depend on what civilised people of different religions beliefs and who cherish and respect human dignity rights think. It depends on whether all members of society will abide by what the civilised population would democratically decide. Once radicals especially of a certain creed are still around, I will just opt to follow the tradition and culture of the land
What if the civilised population are outvoted? Do you stand for nothing? Are you lacking in any beliefs at all?
Yes in this sense: leave my children alone, leave our schools alone, leave our governments alone and stop the games of influence in civil society.
@João Machado
Governments should NOT be left alone!
Governments must be challenged!
I want the government to leave our children and schools alone – let us have religious schools, they are an expression of our religion.
Respecting parental choice is the key to restricting the games of influence that are played by both sides.
The religion is the most intimacy part of the human being. The government is divided from the church, because of that the people’s beliefs should keep privacy. If Europe be tolerant one, she will be rich and bless.
Should people keep their thoughts and political ideas private? No, right?. Is the same question. Same answer.
Religion is an integral part of identity ONLY to those lack thereof. The problem, as Jurgen Habermas proposed, is that isolation and unemployment will cause people to reclusive, and embrace the cheapest access of identity: religion. I don’t blame religion, but when religion is all that’s in action, the society is most likely failed. A muslim engineer and a jewish engineer are more likely to find a common ground than both of them unemployed for the lack of variety in the composition of their identity.
Yes
In other words, you want to ban everything christian? What I think is that it should stay out of goverment and goverments should not subsidize or make concessions to any faith. And it should stay out of schools. My daughters school has religion class and alternative, where they loose an our in either or.
@Toni Muñiz
Sounds totally fair EXCEPT I don’t wan’t the government to have even greater influence on schools than they currently do.
We’ll end up like Russia or WORSE if such a state of affairs continues.
Does this includes ALL religions or just some should be allowed in public? I mean freedom of speech means you should allow this but also alow a radical imahn or priest spewing hatred. Cant have “freedom of speech” for just the things you like.
Which is why we in the UK have “right to be heard” instead of freedom of speech. If someone starts publicly encouraging others to kill they have been heard, therefore their rights were protected. But they then can be arrested for breaking the laws regarding inciting hatred.
Of course! Your God is your affair not mine. If you want to worship a god, please do it in your time and place and not in schools nor government!
They should do so…
No….Everybody have the right to share their beliefs with anyone… No banning….!!!
Yes, of course it should be private and do not show public signals.
Of course they shouldn’t keep their opinions quiet. But with no evidence that one’s religious figure influences the course of events, institutions must be kept secular and religious people must be prepared to have their ideas criticised.
https://www.facebook.com/planetbpmfans
Yes, keep it private, don’t stick it up to someones arse, also don’t wear burka and other religious symbols in schools it should be secular.
@Bucking Bronco Petrovic
Oh, err. I don’t know many religions with a fundament-al emphasis as ou have espoused. What is this rectal-centric religion you refer to?
I think people should be tolerant and respectful and not judge.
!!!!!!
77% where ?
I just found this on the same place : EU 25 ” I believe there is a God” 52% YES . How can it be 77% religious ?
Otherwise big percentage of really religious people don’t want to keep religion private . They want to give it to you , that is the problem .
You do not need to hide it, that is stupid, however you need to respect other people’s religion, which means that you should not “shove” your religious beliefs through a peoples throat, using terrorist acts of violence or similar acts, towards non-believers! ;)
Already illegal.
Hi Vinko – I think you’re referring to a Eurobarometer poll from 2010. In that same poll, 26% of people said they believe in a “spirit or life force”, and if you add that to the number of people who say they believe in God, you reach 76-77% (i.e. only 20% of people say they don’t believe in God or a spirit or life force). However, our figure (77%) comes from Special Eurobarometer 383.
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The problem with all religions is that the “believers” think it is their duty to ram their beliefs down the throats of non-believers in some misguided attempt to “save” them from themselves
This covers everything from Muslim extremists to the Jehova Witnesses who turn up uninvited at your door step.
If all those who choose to be religious just left those who don’t the hell alone, there would be a lot less strife in this world
You’re saying that by Mormon missionaries politely asking you if you have time to listen to a 5 minute speech that it somehow causes all this strife you speak of? How do religions grow if they aren’t allowed to spread the word of their religion? We can’t force you to join, but at the same time the governments of the world can’t let a religious belief go extinct, either.
@Psionic. Well said, frankly I’m more upset when someone phones up trying to get me to have new windows or whatever else they are selling. Not least of all because they don’t pay attention if you tell them you’re not interested. Why aren’t call centres and door to door sales being made illegal I wonder?
We should respect religion but please ask religious folk about existence of telepathy , than you will find out how tolerant they are to you : http://youtu.be/d3ffB2q1VM4?t=1h12m25s
After 4000+ years of answering this question as a ‘no’, mabye it is time for a ‘yes’ answer.
No
Debating what ? Nonsense
Yes they should. Relegion is a spiritual part of human. It is relegion that served as a best tool for mass murder through european history. We believe in science not in relegion
77% religious in Europe? I have serious doubt about that percentage…
people are free to have their religious freedom
Yes
Definitely yes!!!
Such an interesting debate, and such a pity that I saw it just now. I will begin saying “Hi, my name is Simone, from Italy and I am proud to be an Atheist!”
I personally think we should know something more about religion and something more about the history of the States to better considerate this question.
About Religion: religions are not spiritual community, but proper organizations with a deep meaning and different goals. For the christian community the main goal should be to spread the voice of jesus and the truth of this religion that comes from him. Two points. First, basically all the christian believes that their truth is the only truth that exist in the world. This is really difficult to accept in a democracy, and of course they open themselves to secularism during the last centuries, but still they are coming in the democracy with this presumption that their truths will be always the only truth, and that for this reason they are in a really different position. This is valid for all the religions. Second, their purpose is to spread their truth, and this is interesting, ’cause for a matter of coincidence this is what a democracy guarantee to everybody. In the human rights chart they talk about “freedom of thinking and religion”, all together, just one article to say two rights, freedom to think something and freedom to believe in a religion. The freedom of religion is not something for the people, it is the only right that doesn’t concern all the human beings. The freedom of thinking is for everybody and cover also the right to believe in something like a god, the freedom of religion is a right that help the religions to maintain their powers. Nothing else.
About the history of States: the idea of a State is a really particular idea from the western society and history. We developed this idea from the fall of the central power of the Pope during the Middle Ages in favor of the different aristocratic families. Later in the history, when the knowledge became available for more persons the ideas rose in the mind of the people and they started to fight for a different point of view, a point of view that came from the people, a truth that was not coming from the sky, a truth that gave the power to the people, we call that democracy.
So, from my point of view there are two systems to organize a society that are competing for the same “audience”, two systems with different values that try to create in everybody sharable rules, moral rules.
So, if you ask me “should people keep their personal religion private?” I will reply asking you “Should we really consider religions acceptable in a Democracy?” We usually establish limits to defend our States and to avoid mistakes such as fascism and in part communism, so why we should allow another State and another System to rule in our States With old rules from not European countries?
Just because we are born after the period of Enlightenment, it doesn’t mean that we don’t have the right to questions everything again and again. So, is really a church a place where to pray or is more an organization with political power, economical power and capable to support policies and campaigns that go against the core of our democracy? Are really religions compatible with our democracy? Have they lost their arrogance to speak the only truth?
I suggest to answer these questions.
There are laws that a democracy might make that I would not obey. (I am a Catholic, by the way). That is the practical effect of understanding a truth that is absolute and above the opinions of any group of voters that happen to be in power. Is this incompatible with democracy? I would guess that everybody could imagine cases where they would refuse to obey a law – because of a higher truth. So what makes the religious more or less compatible with democracy? Nothing much. We are just out of fashion at the moment.
Yes.
No they should not, because their various religions partly makes them what and who they are. Why should I hide my faith as long as I respect others who may have believes different to my own.
Religious tolerance, please!
God!Caro Papa Francesco!Stop discrimmnation and corruption in the poorest EU country LATVIA!
Yes, I agree because the Freedom is just for every Religion.
Yes
No , just stop killing each other over who`s invisible friend is best.
Stated from a point of ignorance. Both of what religion is, and also about what people get killed over. Since jews, Catholics, Muslims, protestants and so on actually all worship the same God. Merely have differing ways to worship, their “imaginary friends” are all the same. The argument is between power bases within organisations leaders. Usually the religious organisations but also sometimes from national organisations wishing to have a useful proportion/majority/full religious compatibility with their nations/other nations populace so they could use it to gain support, more power and control.
yes they should!!!!!
Why keep ti private? That means hidden.Orthodox martyrs died because they never felt scared to declare their belief!
The Orthodox/Catholic martyrs and the Jews were killed because they refused to worship the Roman emperor as a god, Gatouli, and not simply because they proclaimed their religion publicly. So, even that was a case of someone, the Emperor/the State, bringing religion into public life and imposing it on others.
@DE-EU
The 2011 “Religious” statistics e.g. of a 2% EU Muslim population appears to be on the low side & outdated- depending on the source used.
Not to use updated and future projections of such hotly debated topic increases my assumption of the degree of un-importance placed on it by all EU politicians. Is such a move a deliberate attempt to spread complacency?
Some statistics predict a 50% EU Muslim population by 2050……………….and it is “business as usual” for the EU/EC/EP- thinking EUROPEANS are jumping for joy?
a different source, year & a different %:
http://www.muslimpopulation.com/Europe/
Quote: “The Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights ruled in February 2003 that Islamic Sharia law is “incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy. The court said that a legal system based on Sharia law would diverge from the European Convention on Human Rights, particularly with regard to the rules on the status of women, and its intervention in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.”
Is this issue a private or public one?
The freedom of conscience is one of the basic human rights. The religious believes are important features of a human’s personality. I don’t see why not making public the religious believes. This is exercise of the human rights: the freedom of conscience, the right of free self expression.
Yes, please. Keep your religion to yourself and don’t try and impose it on us. Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God. We are not saying you should keep it secret and we are not saying you should be hiding because of it. But do not expect it to be part of public life and do not bring it into places/spaces where there are people of other religious beliefs than yours, or people of no religious beliefs at all. We do not want to know what you believe in nor what you do not believe in. Just respect the law and get on with it. And yes the law does allow us to draw funny pictures of old bearded men and call them Mohammed. If you don’t like it, you need to find somewhere else to live. Thanks.
Well, if the answer to this has to b e linked to how Yvetta feels, none of us should be here writing our thoughts on political matters. We should be keeping it all to ourselves.
Don’t let anyone know what you believe or think. We don’t want to know w3hat you believe in or what you do not believe in. Just respect the law and get on with it. LOL. Sounds very convenient an excuse for all our politicians who already do just as she asks. They ignore what we say and wish we didn’t have the right to say it at all. Perhaps that is what is at the back of this question. Once again asking ‘our consent’ to keep us impotent.
The debate is about religion, Catherine and not about political life. There is a difference between the two. There are and have been states that are officially secular, so, I am afraid, you might find it funny, but there are countries where it is the official policy. You just have to choose to live where it suits you and live and let live.
No! I AM an atheist ,but i do belive in freedom of speech and thought. De dont all have to be atheists , or have a religion.
@ Catherine
This difference is that we are all on this forum of our own free will, nobody is knocking on my door to discuss Europe, I make a conscious decision to visit this bit of cyber space and write my thoughts
The problem with most Religions is they are not passive, a lot of them have an agenda to convert those who do not share their beliefs. At one end you have the doddery old lady who goes to church every Sunday and loves to talk to everyone about god, then the other extreme of Muslim fundamentalists who hack the heads of unbelievers….and many other shades of attempted “conversion” in between
The bottom line is there is no need for religion to come out of the place of worship or peoples homes. If anyone wants to be exposed to a particular religion then I’m sure the local Church/Synagogue/Mosque/Temple would welcome them with open arms, but it needs to be a personal choice and not through indoctrination via media exposure or peer pressure
@ Paul X:
I think you have confused the question here. Which is, ‘should ‘people’ keep their religious beliefs private?’ They are not asking whether organised religions should be able to evangelise. At least if they are they have not correctly put the query.
If a group or person from and organisation, say, ‘Jehovas Witness’ and asks you if you want to listen to the word of their mission then all you have to do is say, ‘no and don’t come back here again.’ As this is no different from a brush salesman knocking on the door and asking if you want to buy his brushes. He has the right to ask. Should he also be banned from trying to sell his wares?
However, if you are having a conversation with a human being and say they are Jewish and they want to say this to you. as many do as soon as they enter a group, are you saying they should not be allowed to say they come from that persuasion? Or, does this only apply to Christians?
I have a friend who is a Muslim. When he comes out with us to eat his first words are, ‘I can’t eat just anywhere cos I’m a good Muslim boy and have to have Halal.’ So we go to Pizza express or somewhere vegetarian. He does it in enormous humour but is deadly serious. Are you saying he should keep this to himself and we should not know who he is or be aware that he sticks to his ‘religion’ this way?
Same with the orthodox Jew, should he not tell us he has only Kosher as he trusts in his parents teaching? You are talking nonsense. We have enough PC shite to cope with let alone adding more of it to our already over stressed with it lives.
Have you been to the US and watched their horror shows on TV where the Evangelist preachers fills the people up with utter nonsense to extort money from the simple? Now there is a ban I could back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kulq7biswMw
And this investigation tells why they do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0
This exploitation is another matter.
@ Catherine
You cannot compare a brush salesman with Jehovas Witness………..everyone needs a brush at some time in their lives….
@ Paul:
Except, the man who lives next door to you may see it differently. He may say, everyone needs a missionary, who needs a brush.
The point being, freedom to sell either the brush or the mission, that is democracy.
Criminalise all religions. They responsible for 99% of the thefts,murders,fraud,corruption,discriminations,pro and anti terror VIOLENCE on earth
The only way that’s possible is if all religions put the sanctity of human life first
atheism is religion… more dangerous of all…
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. (Bonaparte)
eu is done for all hail germany
Come venivano considerate le religioni nell’Antica Roma: Dal Popolino tutte Vere, dai Filosofi tutte False, dai Magistrati tutte Utili!
By insisting that European values of democracy, equality of the sexes before the law, and secular governance is respected by all religions on the continent.and that they are not able to be subordinated to a religious group which does not share them. In other words, that those values are non negotiable. Now which religion has a problem with that. Modern Christians? No… Jews? nope. Buddhists? not likely. Hindus? Hmmm… I don’t think so… Still thinking, which one could it be….
EU should encourage the interfaith activities. Involve & challenge them more. Especially on the NGO sector where public funds can be used as a stimulating factor.
Share the debit and the bad things ( illegal immigration) and not just the good thing which is easy, so easy but not helpful for a unit European Union
two words: repsect and acceptance. If we point to immigrants or people saying ” the Muslims” ” the Jews” etc., we only succeed to marginalise them not to help them accumulate themselves. Instead, if we accept that we are not all the same and we start referring people by their names and not their religion, race , ethnicity then we have a chance to turn the tables
do not allow any kind of religious prozelitism in public speech/domain/affairs and be religious indifferent, like Swedes (btw, the statement that most Swedish people are atheists is not true, most of them are agnostic but the great achievement in Sweden is that nobody cares about one’s religion, as long as they are good citizens)
Education and humanism is the key! If any religion starts teaching against basic of human ism, the human dignity, that has to be stopped! But not the religions only, those ateists must be stopped as well, especially those who teaches Europeans that they can humiliate others..
Europe was is and will always be christian. Period
First STOP ridiculizing religion! Then STOP the E.U. and member states imposing secularism! E.U. must respect the will of the citizens not the other way!
Secularism would be the will of the people. If you were to hold a referendum tomorrow we would be secular.
Secular EU is the only way to have religious freedom, what people believe is their private business, tension appear when peolle are trying to impose their beliefs on others, what EU can do about is educate people, keep promoting humanism, freedom of thought and tolerance.
Catalin, how does EU exactly dont respect your private life?
Wow it must be hard to be a German while every one else is attempting to play wack_a_mole with you.
Nothing is more dangerous for Americans, who overemphasized on religions, to interpret other people’s history, including Europe.
What do you mean by saying religion? Institution, ethical norms, way of thinking or definition of god?
That is impossible . We should tell the truth . We should tell how many atheist they are in Europe . People should not be scared to sign that they are atheists .
Somebody please tell me: Why all the big fuss about Islam?
@ Javier Ortiz:
Because Islamist terrorists are the killing machine of the Western world, in more ways than one, and the people of this continent don’t want that kind of regressive change to their society or culture.
Religion doesn’t kill: people do! When it comes to crimes, they always have 3 reasons: money, passion or to ceover another crime. And behind these 3, there always is the same thing: human nature
Nationalsocialism doesn’t kill, people do…
Someone is really not seeing the elephant in the room…
So for which of your reasons do you suggest ISIS is hacking peoples heads off and burning them in cages?…..
@Paul x, they are manipulated by the organisations leaders into performing actions in order to promote said leaders political will.
I really enjoyed reading all the comments and ideas. Personally I always considered it wrong that in some states people are not allowed to ware a burka or a veil if this is part of the culture in which they were born and/or their religious beliefs. Nevertheless, I found myself puzzled when someone recently asked me if a teacher should accept it when parents forbid their young daughters to peri piste in swimming class…here I found my own beliefs challenged, because if I would be a teacher I guess I wouldn’t like to be one of my students excluded from an activity due to his or her religion. I would be thankful to hear some other opinions and arguments on this!
Sorry for the spelling mistakes! I mean “forbid to participate in swimming classes”
It is not the believe of the girl, it is the believe of her family!
To me it’s yet another example religious indoctrination. I’m sure the girl would love to take part in the swimming lessons but she is denied that opportunity because of the beliefs of her parents
If religion is about freedom of choice then children should be free to either follow the religious path of their parents or not, unfortunately in many cases it seems they are forced by parents to follow their beliefs and to me this is an abuse of someone’s human rights
@ Roxy:
Here are some thoughts for you to peruse.
People who come to this continent, or, those who have raised their children on it must realise, before they make the step to leave their homeland, that they are going to a different culture. One that lives and abides by the rule of gender equality and freedom. Girls and women are legally free to be an ‘equal’ human being alongside men.
They must accept that girls and woman will be taught that their rights as a freeborn human does not mean they must be restricted to a darkness imposed on them from infancy and be covered from head to toe in robes that stultify their natural ability to freely, walk, eat, participate in sport, example, horse riding, skiing, swimming, gymnastics, rowing, football, ice skating or any other practice that requires freedom of the physique. They can and will show their hair and skin as well as their faces.
They will also be taught that they are not a threat to men and to male sexuality if they are not covered so they can barely see, or that they must have their vagina mutilated as children to ensure the male of the species is unable to rape them. And that to inflict such a horrendous mutilation on females in this part of the world is illegal and those caught doing it will be jailed for carrying out such an act on the body of their daughters. They will also be unable to marry polygamously, meaning have four wives legally, or divorce their wife without paying for her and their children’s support, sometimes for the rest of their lives. They will be unable to beat their wife as that too is illegal. Girls will be educated to the same level as boys and they can choose their own marriage partner when the time comes for them to do so. /they are also expected to have some kind of career which requires a higher form of education. So, they go off from family to university and mix freely with men.
They must also accept that people in Europe enjoy various sexual practices that lead to things like same sex marriage and that those of that same sex in that marriage can then go, and will go on, to adopt other peoples children quite legally. It must also be noted that girls who go out to the movies and are left to run freely by their parents must not be picked up and or kidnapped and used as sex slaves for their mates, as well as accept that Europeans are not subjugated by religion or inclined to not use it to ridicule those who are so immersed. We even have nudes in our newspapers to make it more difficult for men to behave themselves. Which means their daughters could grow up to be a strip artist quite legally and have affairs of the flesh with no shame. They can read books such as Many Shades of Grey sold in shops on the High Street and not hidden from view. And as you men of those countries so well know, have internet cafe’s and places they can surf for pornography. Which includes women should they have a yen for it. And worse of all for the Islam thinker, these things are an every day occurrence and not a burnable offense. Let alone a reason to chop off the hand or stone to death the partaker of such freedoms.
The life of Europeans is quite different from that of Islamic countries. We do not have honour killing as the usual practice against females who don’t follow their parents requests by wearing tight Tee Shirts or short skirts that show their body in their daily life. So, should these practices we live by not suit their belief system and way of life, they are best remaining in countries that do live by such barbaric requirements and expectation. We also live in a democracy, that usually means we are not suffering under the rule of a King, even in my country where the monarch is often lampooned far more ardently that those carried out by Charlie Hebdo. And every four or five years we can throw those who rule out on their ear should they not give us the laws and practices we want to live by.
So, all this means, they will have to change their attitudes to an alternative sense of what is acceptable and be aware that if they break any of the rules we have on these matters they will be charged with a crime and sent to jail for the practice they may believe is their right under their laws. Not only that, they should be aware that they can be deported for such crimes if they do not adhere to the customs we have so much faith in.
……….well expressed Catherine & Trond! Any true European heart can feel comfortable & safe with such homely projected values.
Through Education from an early age. Educating people for accepting the differences.
who cares about religion…today people are starving because of the close minded policy of Mrs. Merkel….my religion is ANTI-AUSTERITY!!!!
Should have thought about that long ago when the atheist marxist-leninists took the Christian symbols out of schools and other public buildings. Even the old ladies are waiting in a dark alley for a public “servant” to crucify now.
Should have thought about that long ago when the atheist marxist-leninists took the Christian symbols out of schools and other public buildings. Even the old ladies are waiting in a dark alley for a public “servant” to crucify now.
First, recognize that Europe was built on Christian values by Christians. If not, you will not figure out who you are, and how we got here. Second, stop teaching Religion in schools. Teach Spiritual Development. Help students become values oriented, understand their own Trinity of physical, cognitive and spiritual self, and how balance is important in growing. Whether you are atheist, jew, muslim or christian you need this perspective of balance in order to grow up and become part of, and contributor to society. Third – go for Hegemony as a Federation and make sure citizens share a perspective on values and goals. If we become addicts to social media, gadgets and forget to pay respect to each other, to our families, friends, neighbors and federates, we will collapse as an economy, as a culture, and eventually as a race. Fourth, work on cultural exchange and integration, but with an important perspective: we’re in Europe, not in Africa, not in the ex Soviet Union, nor in the Middle East. We built this place, and do not accept that our cities become copies of the slums immigrants left, nor that cigarette smoking, begging, street drinking comes back after we fought centuries to raise our standards, bootstrapping, and sometimes failing. Fifth – make sure excellence is not defined by one element only. Make sure paths towards personal excellence are available and recognized, and that talent in sports and cognitive disciplines are joined by those in culture, in innovation, in spiritual capacities, and in love.
We’re way behind on this agenda, so let’s get started.
And A LOT of that “building of Europe” was COUNTLESS wars with Catholics vs. Protestants, persecutions, burnings and torture! Fact is if Europe wants to be a DEMOCRACY it is SECULAR! Democracy does NOT equal theocracy! Deal with it!
To demonstrate to the public that you believe in bronze age mythology and superstition just makes you look like an ignorant fool. Just to protect yourself, you should hide this believes.
Banning Islam cause. Islam is totally incompatible.
Christianity is just as bad. Check history, read the book (bible was the inspiration for quran).
The religion never will be private, because it’s a life style, ….so if you are in the middle of the world,… everybody will see you, and the religion, your life style becomes public… and the thing is that evereybbody must be respect that.
No. People should be allowed to express their views freely, religious or otherwise. Even posing this question shows how we are letting intolerance dictate to us.
are you sure the immigrants have left slums? do you consider European post-colinial identity to be part of the causes for many migrations we face today?
Religious diversity never had been in any country a strength, but a source of conflits and wars.
@ Vicente Silva Tavaras:
Yes, you are correct in a way. And that is because anyone who believes absolutely in a one God philosophy, all other must be Gods invalid. They cannot be anything other. The one God must rule and that Gods prophesy is the only one that is to be considered valid.
All other God lovers must therefore be eliminated. As the difficulty arises when the religion of the mass and the word of that one God, has a requirement that is so completely opposite to the the teaching of the other Gods.
Judaism and Christianity vary a little in that one teaches the wrath of God is so full of anger he requires an eye for an eye. Whereas the other God, although he doesn’t like his followers to deviate from his rules, he will begrudgingly forgive the people who err and tolerate their evil leanings. Even offer them redemption at a push.
However, the God who is Islamic requires death and total intolerance of any human being who does not rigidly adhere to his laws. Therefore, there can be no meeting of minds between his followers and followers of other faiths, or, even of those who are non believers of any kind. Hence the horrendous practices we see against the peoples of Islamic led countries. And, somehow, women have to take the brunt of this Gods ‘intolerance.’ I wonder why that is?
However, there is an element of this dislike of the female being in Judaism. Adam and Eve, Delilah, Jezebel and so on. Only Christianity finds any solace for the female condition in, Mary, the mother of Jesus. Only with the teaching of that Jewish man was any respect shown toward the spirit of a woman.
Has the penny dropped yet? It’s no private fairy tale anymore. Politicians use it for “pc ” politicking!
Islam = Sharia Law. ECHR says: no place in Europe! But, are David Cameron and Angela Merkel undermining the European Court of Human Rights? What now?
Muslims agree that “taqiyyah” is a prescribed duty and a pillar of their faith. “Their ethics allow every manner of lying, cunning and deception. Can any non Muslim trust any Muslim?
https://lawyerssecularsociety.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/hellen-parra-florez-sharia-law-no-place-in-europe.pdf
Yes, from the view of a religious person who accept that more publicly showing his religious practice, less closely to god is.
No, from the regulation view.
So, if religious leaders urge their parishioners to have political attitude, that should be regulated, for the simple reason that the city issues can not be seen only from a unique perspective,
but if a certain government attempt to restrict the practice of religion, people must to defend their freedom of expression.
I wish they would…. but should they? That is surely up to them as free people. I don’t think government should tell people what they can and can’t keep to themselves (if thats what this article is proposing?) but at the same time, it would be nice if people were polite enough to keep it to themselves. Religion is a life choice, like being a vegetarian. By all means, you do it if you really want too, but don’t expect people to listen to stories of why you do it or what it means to you etc… Boring…
Religion has nothing to do in public sphere, it’s private. In my opinion, the “French Laicism” based on the French Republic motto “Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité” is the guaranty that nobody can be judged or discriminated because of it’s Religion. The “Freedom of cult” is guaranteed but goes with the duty “Don’t interfere in others belief”. The concept of “Freedom of opinion” and “Freedom of cult” provides every citizen an equality of treatment, it is not easy to understand because it sets Freedom (“Liberté”) above all. Why should we integrate religion in public sphere? to prefer one religion to another? in that case How do we consider “atheists”?. “My law is not from this world” means even if i act in accordance with the principles of my philosophy, first i have to respect the secular law “give back to cesar…”
Seriously keep your religious, ridiculous beliefs to yourself. You are basically saying you hate gays, could be bad for your career and just mean. Religion and politics I believe should be kept to yourself, period.
Yes, that would be great, thank you very much!!!!
Errrrmmm.. Yes.. Obviously…
Yes
YES!!!
No not necessarily.
No not necessarily.
Yes please. George Titkov political and religious view cannot be compared, cause one of them is based on the reality and the other is based on fiction.
Yes please. George Titkov political and religious view cannot be compared, cause one of them is based on the reality and the other is based on fiction.
Should people keep their sexual orientation private?
Should people keep their sexual orientation private?
Look at all secular countries, they are civilized and look at those who are not.
Death for being gay.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/
Death for not believing in mythological non-sense.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
Look at all secular countries, they are civilized and look at those who are not.
Death for being gay.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/
Death for not believing in mythological non-sense.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
If we are out to curtail freedom of expression and speech. I would suggest banning television instead. Many more problems solved.
If we are out to curtail freedom of expression and speech. I would suggest banning television instead. Many more problems solved.
Europe should weak up and realise that christian faith and wisdom is what made Europe intetesting and challenging! If European nations will let those not Christian background cultures to succeed- it will be lost in cultural, religious and in all aspects!
“Thou should keep religion to thyself”.
Of course it is. Religion should be a personal matter, certainly not the state. At the same time, you should have a constitutional right to interfere in religious matters. Dangerous religious sects and faiths should be outlawed.
yes specially neo-liberalism… now teaching in the schools.
YES
Yes. It is a privet opinion.
I think the question remains,”Can people keep their religious beliefs private from each other.”
Yes,for sure!
People should be free to practice their religion and free to share it with those who take an interest.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes
Yes
religion must be out from Public Administration, Politics and Schools!
religion must be out from Public Administration, Politics and Schools!
Yes. Otherwise, vinculating Religion and State is something that it has been refused by Europe’s Culture. The culture of Europe has been cristianism, but also Luther, laicism…
Yes. Otherwise, vinculating Religion and State is something that it has been refused by Europe’s Culture. The culture of Europe has been cristianism, but also Luther, laicism…
Indeed! That would save entire civilisations!
Indeed! That would save entire civilisations!
No, because otherwise we have to ban sexual freedom or freedom of press etc. If we want human rights, we have to respect them in all. Letting it out of public institutions is another issue. States should be separate from religions of course, laicism is the guardian of tolerance between them as well.
Yeah, 4 security reason : p
The problem is that many of the larger religions are based on its followers ‘spreading’ the word.
Good ideea
Personal beliefs are as its implied personal. They must be respected as long as none tryes to impose his beliefs on others. If that hapens it should be banned from public domain.
Absolutely. State and religion / church should be strictly divided.
They should!
Demanding that religious expression be kept “private” then means allowing the state to interfere in the most private choices of individuals (such as choice of dress). And as always, it’s the minorities that suffer, since the majority has the power to present its customs and expression as “neutral”.
Yes it should be kept to private, but to a certain extent. EU should not allow a faith or religion, overtake another one, or individuals acting in the name of their faith,to act violently.
Debating Europe please be more specific, obviously people didn’t understood the question. My opinion is that no, it shouldn’t be kept private
Marijus, why people like you hate the Catholics and Christians so much? Probably were educated with ateist communist ideas in East Europe, now becoming the neoliberal, money oriented issues?! Look at the recession problems since 2008 throughout Europe- does the money minded, profit hungry mentality solved the problems of poverty and radicalisation or it deepening it?! Christian faith, the new Pope’s approach towards poverty can solve those problems if we all get united in faith and willing of sacrifices.
Marijus, why people like you hate the Catholics and Christians so much? Probably were educated with ateist communist ideas in East Europe, now becoming the neoliberal, money oriented issues?! Look at the recession problems since 2008 throughout Europe- does the money minded, profit hungry mentality solved the problems of poverty and radicalisation or it deepening it?! Christian faith, the new Pope’s approach towards poverty can solve those problems if we all get united in faith and willing of sacrifices.
They should keep them like their ‘private parts’: zipped up, away from education/children, politics and only take them out in the comfort of their home with or without a conseting partner
They should keep them like their ‘private parts’: zipped up, away from education/children, politics and only take them out in the comfort of their home with or without a conseting partner
Keeping them private perhaps is not the issue here. Imho people should not let their religious beliefs, namely worshiping some supreme master, determine hierarchical social structure where people are divided in masters and slaves
No!
All religion can live together except Islam !!!!! Islam need restart without politic in religion !!!!
Which muslims???? Taqiyah is something the minority sect Shia(15% of worlds muslims) have in their belief system. These are not mainstream Muslims and the mainstream muslims Sunnis do nor agreed with their belief system. Even then this concept is misconstrued and twisted for propaganda. Pls stop spreading lies about religions you know nothing about. Don’t learn about religions from the media, they purposely spread lies for their own agenda. Talk to it’s followers. Peace
Yes, at all times.
Yes, at all times.
.
This item shows the lack of knowledge on the subject on the part of the writer & most of the contributors.
It is a requirement of all religions that the faithful spread their faith so they can not keep their faith private if they are to follow their doctrine.
Furthermore forcing them to keep their faith to themselves would be against their fundamental human rights.
Esta imagen representa lo que viene de DIOS todos a una realidad superior
KEEP EACH NATION TRADITIONS AND BELIEVES AND DON’T EVEN TRY TO CHANGE THEM. YOU CAN NOT CONTROL PEOPLES BELIEVES. STOP AT ONCE AND RESPECT..
we wish to be a religion in name satanist independintly from god
Yes!
It is a matter of common sense. Does one go around touting their political affiliation? Only during campaign time. Does one go around talking about their favorite soccer team? Only the fanatics, obviously! Does on go around telling everyone their favorite color? Favorite movie star?
Common sense and keep one’s beliefs to oneself is the social rule! For those who love social harmony!
Yes
Should people keep their political beliefs private? Pretty ridiculous question.
YES!!!
Should “debatingeurope” have basic knowledge and understanding of their questions?
of course
Absolutely!
Religion means comunity love and happiness. Is not loneliness. God is the Other!!! When you married when you have your name day when your child born you call the comunity to celebrate with you. In Greeks christians God mean the plessury and happiness of life. A big Thanks to be in joy in POLIS with others. Not Atomik and money life and YLIS give happiness to the soul
why should they?
..faith everyone is intimate and personal !
Yes! There are paths and religion is one of them, where Y/one has to go alone to achieve (at least try to) peace of mind.
Europe has witnessed centuries of massacres and blood due to religious believes. The solution was finally to keep them private. Why should we renounce to our secularism?
! Good !
Christians should yes, according to Jesus anyway.
all religion should ! because then there would be less descrimination !
Worth a read, Binil Mathew
No, but personal
Always
YES
Why?
of course they shuld ….
The term “private” is too vague. If the question is “Should people keep their religious beliefs hidden?” or “Should expressing religious beliefs be restricted or prohibited?” those are questions that some would incorrectly interchange with “Should people keep their religious beliefs private? Of course, violence or criminal acts should not be protected as religious regardless of the context.
Yes
There must be strong anti-discrimination measures to avoid religious discrimination just like there must be strong anti-terrorism measures. Both are interconnected, the more you discriminate against people of certain religion and turn a blind eye to it, the easier it will be to recruit people for the terrorist organizations because they certainly want to benefit from polarization of societies through such acts by creating such circumstances.
what a wonderful world it would be if they did!!!!!!! Freedom from religion is just as important as freedom of religion, and it’s hard to achieve when you see crosses on German courtroom and Italian school walls, not to mention Croatia- anywhere from public kindergartens to public administration offices (all these countries being ‘secular’ democracies). Continental Europe should look towards the UK in this particular matter.
And all this time I was convinced there were no stupid questions.
Yes
Respect for all Religions
Absolutely YES!
Religion should be banned. 2015 here, wake up.
No, it should not be kept private, everybody has the right to pronounce her/his belief, but it must be kept personal, in order not to give way to any kind of public legal debate about it, unless it hurts the rights for freedom of other individuals.
Summarized: peaceful religions must be respected as long as letting them to work, others must be forced to work peacefully or to vanish.
no
Don’t matter as log they are staying out of the government and politics. Cuse if they get involved it’s hi likelihood that the freedom is getting very limited
Yust look at the countries with religious leaders in the government they are all non democratic countries
Totally true
Yes…….
Everybody as de rigth to pronouce their religion, since that wont boder anyone, im telling other people goverments others religions other cultures.. everybody as the space and liberty to be wo they wont, to belive in what they want to belive whithout hurting or ofending others.
No. But there’s a big difference in celebrating your faith and inflicting it upon others. The basic rule is that your rights extend until they touch mine.
Eu charter of human rights, art. 10: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes freedom to change religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and IN PUBLIC or in private, to MANIFEST religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
any religion recommend and insist on tolerance, forgiveness, love between people, so…why fight and deny the others religion ??!?!! for me those who make contradictory discussions on different religions.. DO NOT KNOW RELIGION, AND THEY ARE NOT MEN OF GOD (whoever he is..)
Not at all, People should respect diferent religions.
freedom of religion allows to publicly demonstrate one’s belief. Having said that, I am convinced that the State and the religion must be kept separate.
Should people keep their sexual orientation private?
YES, and I say that as a Christian myself?…
Sure !
Take your religion for yourself! I don’t care what invisible friend you have unless i ask for it. So live and let live!
So much ignorance in the comments
No, but 1. donot impose your religion to others and 2. do never offend religions of others. There’s is limit of ‘free expression’ ! There are only 3 basis religions on earth : christians, bouddishst and muslims. So let leave each other in PEACE ! All Extremisme in the 3 mono religions are dangerous : fortunately most people are just for Peace and Love.
In our Eastern Orthodox Faith, Spiritual Life and Tradition as followers of our Holy Fathers of the Church of Christ our faith, not just a religion, is always a social, public , intercommunial event.
Yes, of course.
Religion is private, and everywhere where it is not private you find violence
Absolutely.
When respect God , we respect every religion!
In this time, mybe better to keep
not just private, but to themselves as well. Respect each other’s religion and do not bother someone else with yours!
Ander Anderson, I am sorry that you are so much dissapointed in the Christian religion- however there are 100 of millions who trust and have the faith! I don’t think you have been brought up as a Christian, because those wouldn’t preach hate and manipulation as you do!
Why secret? What is forbidden in Europe?
Let believe in what they want, if it does not prevent me to live !
How is that a small minority of gay and ateists preach so hard and frequently about hates towards religious people and priests! Unfortunately there had been many abuses against children in many schools, hospitals as well, but we don’t blame all the teachers and all medical staff, do we?!
Tolerance for all religions – and atheism – in secular states.
YES..strictly
NO , they can’t , any religious group give their religion to others and impose their justice over others . Problem is that they are so many religions and they change their justice with time under pressure of evidence . That is the main reason for wars .
They should publicly express their belief, but not against others ones. Everybody shuld accept pluralism in beliefs the same way they accept pluralism in politics. Both things should be treated the same way.
It shouldn’t make no difference either way.
This is wrong ” According to Eurobarometer, 77% of EU citizens consider themselves to be religious. ” . I am atheist but with your statistic I am religious . My parents are Catholics and and when I was born they sign under “catholic ” . Most of EU citizens are religious exact like Swedish : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3YA-1mSh0I
respect & the equality for all NO Racism
Most of EU citizens are NO religious like Swedish but they are in statistics “religious” : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhP1_1Xy0A
Yes! It should be a private matter. Church and state should be separate.
I am not sure what you mean by private. If it means whether or not it’s known or required by officials, then yes it should be a private matter. I remember applying in Greece for my driver’s license and they needed my baptism papers.
In private people should dress and do as they want, if not too extreme like a burka or something. People must be still recognizable. That?s freedom of religion and expression. @ work, neutrality is a must especially in contact with clients. Work is not private, especially if you come in contact with customers face to face. Customer may not have the impression that they are not neutrally treated. Customers have also no business with the religion of the person helping them.
Of course and it is so obvious that we don’t need any public debate about that
Have you done this question? Seriously?
The question is more: should muslims keep their religion private?
Tolerance is all we need. Without religion we are just normal people, afterall.
There is a time and Palace for
To start with, I am an atheist and a humanist. I live in Stockholm and in Riga at the moment. Since I live in big cities I am used to see people with different life styles, fashion styles and religious beliefs. For me it is normal that people are showing themselves to others. For that reason I support both having a diversified and secular society where relgion is private and where a individual has the right to choose its religion or a non-relgion. And in a democratic society, as opposite to dictatorship or theocratic society, the religions should be discussed. Also regarding what is ok and not ok to perform in public spaces. After all for may European states the secular societies have been a success story for social and economic development.
Any belief should be “speakable” as long as it does not intent to extend its ‘area’ by force.
No, always free but respecting the others (noise, time, …)
Yes please! When religous belifs are too much public there are social problems.
It should be a private matter.
Respeito por todas as religies preciso…!!!
No. And they should also not blame somebody else for their beliefs. nly thing to blame is aggression and violence. There is no such thing as a religion of killing. That should be banned from Earth.
Private & public… in RESPECT without prejudices & racism!!!
Yes
No, just don’t impose them one everyone else.
The individuals are ONE. We are not one at home, another one in the street, another one in social relationships, another one at work… If we are ONE, in our handbag we carry all what we are. Religion is one of our personal dimension: intellectual, physical, social, espiritual, psycho-affective.
Anyway, faith is proposed, is not imposed.
Yes!
Wathever you want, be free and respectfull.
I think not . Religion is not a custom or habits . It is a way of life , it is intrinsic to the person and therefore I can not hide. My decisions , my habits , my lifestyle is always a reflection of my ideas … . why there is fashion, film , literature , art … . NEED externally humans express their ideas, their philosophy. Sorry for those who made the proposal but … . lack reflection on the matter … . Or do you want to eliminate the freedom of human beings ? Or is presenting ” kill” the individual, … homogenizing , massing and unifying thought, the works … .etc ? .. It’s my opinion … .
It must not be private. But with all problems nowadays I’m not sure if it’s better to be private…
parerea mea este ca seamana cu patru closete publice.
it’s not private and will not be .. Christianity is our culture and only Christianity will be! Check religion “tolerance” in Israel and Saudi …
Keresztny Magyarorszgot s Eurpt ! Christian Hungary and Europe ! krisztus.eu
Europe is based on Christianity. If this offends someone, he is perfectly free to get out.
why should we argue on this ? is stupid! GOD is one and we multiply HIM by fear of being alone….
Yes, I shouldn’t have your PERSONAL spiritual ideology pumped in my face.
Yes
Don’t allow each Religion which is not peaceful and helps protect life !! They shall fix it. Not the states. http://www.WWSEEP.com
I think that while it is impossible to keep religious view being expressed in the public sphere and I think that no attempt should be made to do this.
But I hold the opinion that religious dogma should be kept out of our laws. I do not think that it is right or prudent to draft a law or implement a policy based on religious opinions.
NOt “should” .. they “MUST” !!
I don’t mind if they’re open about it. They don’t need to hide it. But stop shoving it down the throats of people.
If I said ‘Yes’ once – people attacked me that im ‘racist, nazi and idiot’. Something wrong is here.
Yes
Yep !
“If a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy.”
Like this european religion…
No.
In our Eastern Orthodox faith and living tradition, our beliefs are in common with our social life. Christianity is a social, open, liberating event not just an ideology or a congregation. It is public and will be public for ever!
Religions should not to share, many people look at religion from the perspective of policy ……
Everybody should be abe to express his religious belief publicly and privately! This Debating Europe’s question is very dangeours: do they want to kill the religious freedomo? O.o O.o O.o
No, I don’t think so!
Geography…
Debating Europe
Which part of ‘freedom of expression’ do you no understand ?
yes! Above all any effect of religion on society should be banned
People should be free to express a peaceful faith but its a fine line when it becomes harassment, that’s an issue that needs examination by the law makers. For me I do not mind anyone enquiring of me if I would be interested in there faith as long as they except my position if/when I decline.
article 9 of EUROPEAN CHART OF HUMAN RIGHTS: freedom of conscience and religion
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2. Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
Do not bother us with your religious beliefs. As there are at least around 3000 recognized religions in the world, the statistical probability that yours is the “true” religion is 1/3000, that is 0.033%. Do not waste my time with your gods.
as long as they do not impose it on others, why not?
why not debate poverty instead? and the bloody illegal immigration in our country !
Should ideology be consumed like religion,alcohol and other drugs ? Should that be done under prescrption of a psy.. scientist?
YES ! This can’t be true ” 77% of EU citizens consider themselves to be religious” . Religious people think that they have higher moralistic values and they think they should implement it over others . Just one example : Croatians vote against gay marriage http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/12/croatia
then if somebody do so then he or she doesn’t belief his or her religion????
Religion is a comedy
atheism is the most shouting religion …
you can sit in a bar and hear people shouting they are atheist two bars away
yes they should, but that includes atheists aswell
Croatia or Italy or any other country of Europe has the right to vote against gay marriage! Just as Britain or France had the right to vote for gay marriage. What is wrong with that Vinko Rajic?
why? we can pray together…
YES! ALWAYS!
Yes
Yes! Just as political views! Just as personal finances! Just as our opinions about our neighbors…
Yes
God don’t exist!
No!!
Yes religion is a private thing. People should wear religious clothes only at religious sites and it would be great if they did not do this in other areas.
YES
It is up to every individual to decide for himself/herself.
YES!
No, the CHRISTIAN LIGHT is not to be hidden in this sinful world.
Yes. It is intimate insight.
No, but it is not a requirement for others to listen to it or practice its teachings if they do not wish it. People should be free to follow their religion but that creates no obligation for others to do so.
If they are also willing to keep their “sexual orientation” private, maybe. But I doubt it.
Anyway, what does “private” even mean under the conditions of advanced capitalism?
nope,everyone should respect the other ones choice of religion !
“Thake your religion for tyself!” cit.
And I add. Don’t bother me with your imaginary friend. Your “morale” (let’s see who has the higher ground here) or other things I don’t care.
Religion keep people apart from one another and live on ignorance and discrimination.
Definitely!
Religion played a serious role to humans history ,is part of nation’s culture and has a major active role today ..
We don’t need one religion or not religion ,or to keep it private what ever we believe.
We need to develop stronger relations than religion is, between nations and people .
Yes
No. Should People think and talk about opinions in private? No,right?. Is the same
No. It’s part of each citizen’s personality and we live in a free community where we are free to express our ways of thought. If religion is to be kept private, other things like political orientation, sexual or gender orientation, or even sports orientation are to be kept private too. And atheists / agnostics would have to keep their mouths shut as well, because those are views ON religion too.
I see more (in quantity) violence and vandalism motivated by sports (football), than by religious beliefs.
It’s so easy to be who we want to be while respecting each other’s space!
Well they should not force their religious beliefs to others.
Sane people see difference betweeen mythology and reality.
Religious beliefs should not be private, but gays should keep their sexual orientation private. (*This is not double standard, this is (your) Gods will).
“God hates fags!!”,”Homosexuals are abomination”,”Democracy go to hell”, “F*ck Israel!”. (*This is my freedom of expression, religion is above everything.)
BTW can i practice Voodoo or Satanism in public?
They want to change everything just to have us in control !!!
Where is freedom ?
Where is coulture ?
Where is countries ?
Where is defrently ?
Vote for them , make them stronger … they know your good … You don’t !!!!
God help us !!
No, why?
Yes. And church should be taxed
Freedom of expression does not involve faction concept. Expression means to show how you feel. It does not include the ability to advertize your factions. This is just another type of a freedom policy that people have developed out of proportions.
Currently we have the right to freely express our feelings. This means solely our feelings and thus it is called Freedom of Expression right, not the “Freedom of Expressing Your Faction Abstractions” right.
So that the authorities know and their friends don’t ? Totalitarian nonsense. Tolerance is one of the cornerstones of democracy , but don’t tell anyone , they might want democracy.
I am catholic too, but I believe that Jusus and Marx said the same, not to gether fortunes and share your goods with the poor and needy. If many rich would do just a little bit of this theaching , there wouldn’t be poordom.
Yes! Religious practice is a personal experience and should be kept private.
No !
What the heck does that mean: ‘keep their religious beliefs private?’ A priest or a pastor shouldn’t wear his clothes or what? If this is how European liberals think Europeans should behave then they are nothing else but maniacs and dictators and they have got nothing to do with freedom. My answer is NO!
Yes. Religion is a private matter in any secular Republic.
Yes. Nor should religion be subsidised.
No. Religion is incorporated not just into one’s believes, but into the way of life, and everything we do. Keeping it “private”, i.e. “silent”, means breaching the right to religion. Secular does not mean “atheist” or “un-religious”,
Having disestablished proselytizing to a degree, securlar governments attempt to unite forums of peace in many of the same ways as religious orders. The curious question is why the difference is so seriously misunderstood, and of course by whom.
Yes showing religions is a main reason of violence between people
There is a lot of violence race motivated. That means that now we should all paint our faces grey not to show our race? The reason for violence is lack of relevant education, not anything else. Religion is a social control tool, and that’s why it generates violence. But you can only get control by a tool if you don’t understand it and fear it. Relevant education you’ll set you free.
We are a pack. We can’t let a part of us at home, can we ? But at school the children must have a discipline of civic beahavier.
Free express of Christian religion.
My belief if immigrants want to come into Europe they are welcome but only if they adopt our laws and respect our ways and do not bring their religious beliefs with them.
If they do they are not welcome and should be deported
You’re assuming that Europe is Christian and immigrants will bring other religions, which you don’t seem to want coming to Europe. But in fact, Europe has many many religions… I’m an atheist and I have very strong opinions on the real reasons for religions to exist, and even then I can’t say to people not to “bring” their religion. What we all need is relevant education… and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I think that the key compliance is to look at people as living beings. Humanity is a treasure, and when we understand that we are all equal in the eyes of God, we can see ourselves the same between us .Love is the key respect. When you love you can not hurt wickedly.It is a question of priorities. A mother cares for her sick child for love , not for money so…. if we want it’s possible.
And… God exists… but some peole do not know him yet !. When They feel loved,… the will undestand
It only exists in your own head… because science is very conclusive regarding this subject by now. So lets provide our children with relevant education and not indoctrination. That’s all I have to say.
and what do you undestand for “relevant education”?
An education system that follows the principles of democratic education, not the indoctrination system that most of the western world now uses to produce real human robots ready (or not) for the economy market. If influence free scientific education is provided to all, in my humble opinion, organized religion will pretty much cease to exist, removing from society all the problems that it creates. The religion doctrine is full of scientific impossibilities, religion loves to defy the basic laws of physics, logic, and rational (which should be the principals that build healthy societies). Instead, we should promote spiritualism, connection and understanding of nature, not all mighty gods and fairy tales that create fear and social control. Religion was an important part of human evolution (it basically started as an attempt to explain natural phenomenons that the scientific knowledge couldn’t explain at the time), evolved into a social control tool, and nowadays is simply not only unnecessary but also dangerous. And the results are showing all over the world… Religion freedom? Absolutely! I won’t tell you to not believe in your god (whichever was your pick from the thousands of gods that prevail in human history) and please don’t bring religion to my kids school, to my kids civil society, or any other place of influence. It goes both sides.
An education system that follows the principles of democratic education, not the indoctrination system that most of the western world now uses to produce real human robots ready (or not) for the economy market. If influence free scientific education is provided to all, in my humble opinion, organized religion will pretty much cease to exist, removing from society all the problems that it creates. The religion doctrine is full of scientific impossibilities, religion loves to defy the basic laws of physics, logic, and rational (which should be the principals that build healthy societies). Instead, we should promote spiritualism, connection and understanding of nature, not all mighty gods and fairy tales that create fear and social control. Religion was an important part of human evolution (it basically started as an attempt to explain natural phenomenons that the scientific knowledge couldn’t explain at the time), evolved into a social control tool, and nowadays is simply not only unnecessary but also dangerous. And the results are showing all over the world… Religion freedom? Absolutely! I won’t tell you to not believe in your god (whichever was your pick from the thousands of gods that prevail in human history) and please don’t bring religion to my kids school, to my kids civil society, or any other place of influence. It goes both sides.
God does not need man just loves him. And the man is free to respond to such love .. or not.
As usual, the religion side replies with absolutely no arguments, just jiberjaber.. God is an invention of men, for men. There’s not a single scientific proof of the existence of any god whatsoever. And your god will probably be discarded from people’s minds within time, just like the ancient greek and roman gods are now only on the history books. Perspectives.
or perhaps it will be the truth,…. and many ancient philosophers had demostrated that God exist…. the Nietzsche theory is old fashioned…
Ancient philosophers never proved anything, not scientifically anyway. They just used the same mindset of their time to try to explain natural phenomenons. Actually, modern brain science understands why people like you are so devoted to something imaginary. It’s actually alterations of your brain chemistry that allow humans to feel that connection with some superior nonexistent being and bow for him for no reason… The interesting part is that those chemical modifications are extremely similar to many serial killers that were also tested under the same standards…
jajaja…..it’s fun certainly to see how you invest time to show something you do not believe there…at least respect what millions of millions of people believe…without getting into absurd disqualifying …and would be more effective those scientists who speaks devote their time to solving cancer, and not to the world convercer impossible. Love is not chemistry. Love exists, and my God is love so… It’s very simple but it’s very sacrificed. We are made to love, but not everyone is willing to do…
My friend, the fact that millions believe in religions is by no way any measure of validity of those same religions. Organized religion serves many purposes, and one of the most important one is social control. You see millions of believers, I see millions of indoctrinated sheeple. Regarding love, you’re very wrong. Love is nothing but chemistry. If you had any scientific knowledge you would realize that love comes from your brain, you can romanticize all you want but facts are facts. Love is a beautiful thing that humans are able to experience, but it’s all chemistry, no super natural qualities to humans or gods. Scientists should take their time to solve many natural problems, finding the cure for cancer or revealing the natural secrets that were misunderstood until now. Asking questions, observing, testing and geting factual conclusions. That’s how the science that brings you your way of life works. Religion on the other side, promotes ignorance, fear, individuality, it’s racist, xenophobe, dangerous overall. That’s why I invest my time to try to understand how can people still be ignorant to the point of participating in this. Religion is one of the most dangerous phenomenons or modern civilization. I don’t even need to dispute that fact, the proofs are showing all over the planet, with wars, social control and fear being spread in the name of supernatural nonsense with no place or validity in modern society. Don’t come to me with romanticized speech, I’m capable of loving just like any other human with a brain. I’m also capable of thinking for myself, ask questions, use reason and logic. Are you?
My friend, the fact that millions believe in religions is by no way any measure of validity of those same religions. (and therefore they deserve respect). Organized religion serves many purposes, and one of the most important one is social control. (think that’s trying to fool the citizen, and people are free to think). You see millions of believers, I see millions of indoctrinated sheeple (another disrespectful). Don’t come to me with romanticized speech, I’m capable of loving just like any other human with a brain. I’m also capable of thinking for myself, ask questions, use reason and logic. Are you?. (Love is not just chemical. If love alone was something generated by the brain, she understands the sacrifice of one man by another , giving their lives if necessary, and that has no rational explanation. I argue no disqualifications, and in a calm manner . The only thing is you lose your cool . But it does not matter.)
The thing is that the debate is if Should people keep their religious beliefs private? I say NO, because the religion is a way of life, and people can not live hidden…. with love. Me.
You didn’t actually made any points, but I’ll leave with my initial comment: religion freedom? Yes! As long as religion stays off my children schools, and any other place of civil society. You think religion is all good, but you’re naive. In my son school they stopped teaching darwin evolution and started teaching complete unscientific nonsense about creation. That’s how religion works, with profound social indoctrination and ignorance! It’s been like that for thousands of years, it’s not going to stop now and I don’t even need to defend my point on that. It’s just too obvious. And that I won’t allow. I changed my son’s school, and now he has a proper rational factual education. So again, keep religion believe out of my son’s education and civil life, in all aspects without exception. Don’t ask me to respect religion believe, because that’s the same of asking me to respect ignorance and indoctrination. And there’s no place in this world for keeping our children (and obviously grownups too) ignorant and indoctrinated into nonsense. I doubt that you even know the origins of your own religion…
When the time comes, I will teach the basics of religion to my son, and he’ll be able to decide by himself what to believe in. But I’m pretty sure about his choices, because I always educated him in a factual and rational manner, and as a consequence he now understands the importance of saying “I don’t know”. And the importance of rationally ask questions and find answers using his brain, not supernatural nonsense. I’m sorry if you feel disrespected, I meant no disrespect, I just get really annoyed with so much human potential being wasted in the XXI century because of prehistorical social aberrations.
According to this reasoning, you are also indoctrinating your son by showing a thought where God or religion doesn’t exist. So, why your ” indoctrination ” is better than the rest of humanity?. Human, thanks God, are free, and therefore neither you nor anyone else can force someone to think or believe. Humans choose and think. Education is not to teach what to think. Education is learning to think freely.
Lets get something straight. I didn’t show my son anything. I showed him science and scientific method. I showed him that most of our society nowadays is molded by scientific advances, achieved through the application of the scientific method, not supernatural nonsense. I’m not indoctrinating anyone by just showing him evidence, facts, reason. And as I told you, I’m going to teach him what religion is, because I want to be sure he understands both sides of the story and make his own choices. And it’s hilarious that you above all persons is saying that education is learning to think freely. Which is quite right! Which also is quite the opposite of what all organized religions do!! Believe this, don’t question it, because faith is unquestionable. It’s like this because we say so. Gave a good life my friend, I’m not being sarcastic, I wish you the best, but I’m just loosing my time here. Take care
Talk never is wasting time. If you considered that you are loosing your time here, perhaps you are claiming to conviced someone… and my intention is to expose that it’s important to respect the religions, our ideas, without anger.
It seems wonderful concern for your son. All parents want the best for our children. And you are doing. Congratulations. We are different so we love our children differently. Thanks for your point of view, it’s interesting to share this place with you. Take care.
No, they should try to make everybody else believe in what they believe, at any cost, kind of what we have been doing so far. ACCEPTANCE and TOLERANCE i say….
.
Depends if you believe in freedom of speech and freedom of expression or not.
Yes!….Yes!….yes!..
It’s personal!
Yes
The should keep their beliefs private.
in theory yes, but in practice… it’s impossible!
in theory yes, but in practice… it’s impossible!
Yes, of course. No religion in government nor education.
Maybe Yes! Respect to the community and not the religion! Which is what most religions argue about! #Diversity
Yes yes yes.people should keep their religious beliefs private!
As i feel that my liberal ideas should be heard by others in order for creating a better world I find it hard to deny this right to the religious. I’m an atheist and thrive on open discussion between myself and people of faith. It makes me a better discussion partner and challenges my views. There is only one thing I would deny religious organizations: federal recognition and as a consequence endorsement. State and religion should be separate. People of faith can try to introduce their morals into the democratic process but multi billion euro organizations like the Catholic Church should cease being pampered by subsidies.
Nobody has the right to brainwash and impose beliefs. History shows how the speeches, words imposes things. And everyone has to reach its findings and conclusions. NOT have them be imposed. A man without his own will , is easily manipulated , and it shows in fanatical terrorists.
And sexual orientation also !
Religion has no place in the public domain. So yes, you should keep your beliefs to yourself.
what if i want you 2 join me
Is Atheism a religion because it isn’t rational? Because nobody knows what’s going to happen after dead and nobody has proofs, so Atheism is faith in the annihilation after death. Every statement without proofs is a belief of faith. And what’s the meaning of the “private” word? Maybe the point is to destroy religion in ordere to give moral power to National States? Like URSS and Nazism tryed to? This question is a nonsense.
No
yes
yes, they should . it’s a private freedom, a intimate thing that should not be showed off .
Definitely no. In Europe, law has always been an instrument to implement ethics into public policies. And religion is about morality and ethics — and so, also about law.
YES!
Yes
IT is better yes because they can not make everybody to Accept and be Tolerant Religion is something privat
Definitely no. Religious belief is a expression of freedom of speech and therefor has to be allowed to be shown in public.
No. The answer is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 18. Are we thinking to change that? Creepy…
Yes absoloutely!! we can’t leave the politics to religious groups.. expecially the ones intolerants
No. Religion is «a form of life». Even if ritual are private, religion underpins the way we behave and relate to others. Therefore, religion can NOT be separated from society.
Absolutely yes.
Everybody must have the right to go to church to weare what he what to think and belive but with the Same Doleranz and Respekt to every other Religion or privat live stil
yes
as long as most religions preach hate against other religions totally yes
YES!
yes please….
Yes …
.
Given 77% of people in Europe are religious your question is pure totalitarian nonsense.
Even if they dont keep religions privet how dose that bothers people thought?even if somebody talks about it in public what dose that makes any diferen?
.
Interesting to see the EU’s motto of ‘United in diversity’ actually excludes 77% of the people in the EU.
Proof positive that pro EU’ers really are wannabe dictators. .
Yes private. It is between him her.only.
No everyone is free to believe in what he/she believes. I must respect each country religion.
Yes
Yes
Yes!
Yes, and they should not influence the public sphere in any given fashion. 300 years of secularization are owed at least that.
Yes!
that’s something I do appreciate . thank’s
YES!
Impossible ! Religion is there so they can give some strange 2000 Years old justice to other people . They can’t keep religion for themselves , they have religion to all others . If they can give religion to others then God donate money and sexy chicks to them because God loves them , they fight hard for God . God can give so much if you really love and follow his messages : In just 5 years, the “seer” Ivan Dragicevic has bought properties worth a total of 1.566 million dollars, equivalent to 1,470,953 euro (taking into account the appreciation of the euro at the time of the trade).
An average American, in the 5 years would have earned $ 198,508 gross, gross 195 336 € (taking into account the appreciation of the euro year to year). Figures, gross, are nearly 10 times lower than the amount spent by the “seer”.
http://abateoimpertinente.wordpress.com/…/inchiesta-esclusi…-«nessuno-dei-veggenti-di-medjugorje-si-e-mai-arricchito-grazie-alle-apparizioni-»-ecco-le-prove-del-contrario/
Keep it public but do not try to influence public life of people of different or no belief! Free worship is ONE of human rights and the latters are fundamental as well!
estrictamente en el ambito familiar y privado.
I sort og agree that it should be a private matter, but I question whether it’s possible to keep completely to yourself. Religiousness flavours most aspects of the believer’s personality; if we expect a religious person to exist in a public space, then it doesn’t make sense to say “you can’t be religious here.” That’s like saying they have to leave their upbringing at the door.
What the question is really about, though, is whether religious professionals should be allowed to publicly evangelize. Nobody likes to have a sanctimonious bible thumper try to convert them. But really, we allow the same sort of behavior from political parties all the time without worrying unduely about society crashing down around our ears.
One could argue that religious behavior can spread hatred, but so can politically radical behavior. Most Christians hate Westboro. Most Muslims hate ISIL.
So what, precisely, do we worry will happen when people are being openly religious? I am Scandinavian, so I personally think it’s obnoxious, but I am hardly one to tell people how to go about their life. In a roundabout way, letting people be openly religious is the most private way we can go about it: ultimately it’s nobody else’s business. Not even in public.
Simlply YES …
they should keep their faith in private coz its damn annoying their attempts to convert or put down others belief just so they can feel or think they are in the correct religion and worshiping a better doctrine than others…..that shows alot of insecurity…
Spirituality is personal matter. Religion by definition is not.
photo pic all time day dead all time killing your man first after time
No religions in school, army, justice, police and in all military and state institutions/offices!
I believe that for a matter such as this, there shouldn’t be a legislation. Either way, the decision should be respected. Respecting other religions is a matter that should be taken into consideration for neccessary measures, though. Note down that keeping our beliefs private or not should not be compulsory.
Yes.
3 Nobel Prizes in 1 year!
I discovered the Gravitation theory for Nobel Prize in physics, I discovered the Evolution theory for Nobel Prize in medicine and I discovered the Transdisciplinarity equations for Nobel Peace Prize.
If my theories are right I can receive 3 Nobel Prizes in one year!
Gravitation:
“I am the first who Understood and Explained the Gravitation with high speed gravitons v = 1.001762 × 10^17 m/s, with Negative Impulse, Negative Mass and Negative Energy” Adrian Ferent
Evolution:
“Darwin developed his Evolution theory on animals; I developed my Evolution theory on people” Adrian Ferent
“Our evolution level is our consciousness level” Adrian Ferent
Transdisciplinarity equations:
To understand the peace, the conflicts and to resolve them the most important thing is to explain mathematically the Mind equation, the Consciousness equation, Who am I equation!
Anyway I am the first in the world who wrote the 3 most important theories: Gravitation, Evolution, Transdisciplinarity (links between science and spirituality)!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1456724157965634&set=a.1375785809392803.1073741827.100008841903321&type=1
Keep it private, but don’t hide it. Because It’s part of you identity. However the society should in my view be and remain secular.
Absolutely!
Y
Religion is a private matter and should as such be a private thing. However, religious debates among religions is in my opinion both okay and recommended. However it should be noted that religion has no place in the world of either politics or science.
Yes.. the world would be a better place then…
Tu modo de pensar lo transmites en tu modo de vestir, de hablar, de disfrutar…. es imposible ocultar algo tan profundo como el espiritu…asi que NO. Debe permitirse cualquier tipo de manifestación religiosa, pero siempre respetando a todos.
Yes, absolutely. Each group making up a religion intrinsically reputes itself as being the beholders of the one and only truth. The moment that this group tries to externalise this belief, trying to convince the other groups that theirs is the most benevolent religion, tensions inevitably develop. So it is best to have one common rule where each one is free to practise his or her own religion of choice in private and with due humbleness. It would be a happier and more tolerant world.
In my opinion it’s a private affair however those moral issues written in the Holly Bible and in other books of different religions can mean and really mean the direction to follow. If I am right no other theory has been able to give better and bigger help to people to be better and more human than religions.
No
Good for you Giorgio Vasari. Correct answer.
Yes, it’s very private thing.
Depending… I thing it is quite impossible somehow. And depending on the country. We have a lot of religious festivities. We cannot hide history and traditions.
To keep beliefs private is not the problèm. The issue is to keep or to hide truth and knowledge. The issue is what are doing NSA, media and governments hiding truth, and not delivering, It reflecting, sharing compréhensive and respectful policy and knowledge to the civil society.
Religion is a private matter, and must not be imposed on others.
Yes
YES consider them genitalia, only to be taken out in the comfort of your home with (or without) a consenting partner, never in public, schools, politics, children
Yes, they should, but they can have open public temples to visit and engage in rituals.
Of course.
You are very crazy!!! Do you want to build the Europe killing the freedom of religion??? O.o :/
EVERY PEOPLE HAS TO OPPOSE TO THIS LIBERTICIDE!!!
Answer to this question of yours cost you my 300 Million $ respond. Start raising fund now! Then we judge best answer as the winner ! P.S. you already owe me 2% royalties on any future contest of such style ;-)
Sex and religion are a private things
Yes, I Do!
Yes, of course, religion and spirituality are by nature, private matters.
I think that more than keeping the religious beliefs private is to respect the others religious beliefs. Respect is what we need to be reborned today!
I’m Greek so religion is a part of who i am.Otherwise i will lose my identity.Among the things that make me Greek the most important are my love to family,my love and loyalty to my country and my love for my religion Orthodoxy.I can’t change my nature and i won’t.I’m happy the way my country is.Especially now that we have so many problems our religion is our shelter.If 81% believed in God in Greece in the past now we are much more.The churches are full with young people because now we are afraid we will lose our identity and we fight it.We should thank foreigners for that.
If people want to keep their religious beliefs private they will; if not, they will not. It is about freedom, and as long as it doesn’t condition freedom of others it is OK.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the state and/or government!
Yes.
State/government should be neutral about religion. It’s about freedom of each individual to live by what he believes while respecting others beliefs.
yes
Religion is like a penis. It’s fine to have one and it’s fine to be proud of it, but please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around… and PLEASE don’t try to shove it down my child’s throat.
yes
Yes, because we don’t want other people’s religious beliefs offending our own prejudices.
To speack about religion is remember God and Jesus Christ!
Yes.
Yes.
YES
YES
Just as much as Burka is forbidden in public.
totally agree
private by constitution !!! the church shouldn’t interfere with our political lives … it is a man’s right not to be influenced by things that don’t concern him and are not related to what he does !!! it should be in his free choice to live separate of what other people do and that is a question of human rights, and should be treated as law !!
This guy is amazing…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc70-7tR3JU
No
yes
of course they should keep their religious beliefs, symbols, behaviors etc private… namely, there is no peaceful and inoffensive way to fit all the insane religious ways into a civilized public life…
Yes, definitely.
Each person/family can believe in whatever they want to, in their own private space, as long as it doesn’t affect laws, the general public, the rules in place and the private space of others.
No. Should be personal ideologies a private matter??? No. Well, the same for religion.
I believe they should be private, if you have this special connection with your religious beliefs and God that’s great. It becomes a problem when it starts to effect society as a whole. When certain religions start to influence business to change their ethics or practices to accommodate their specific belief is the main concern here. There is not one religion that is superior to any other. Religion should be practiced in their home, and in their specific churches at their own time.
Hi Maria. Why do you think you are right?
Did you actually read what Maria wrote? It seems pretty clear to me. And logical. You want to have imaginary friends? Go for it. But leave my kids, my family and myself out of it. That means no religion mandatory classes in schools, no organized churches lobbying governments, start taxing churches just like any other business, and please… understand something once and for all: stay away from my life.
ok. Your message it’s very clear but my question is for Maria. Thanks. God bless you.
God bless me? Which one?
God is God. No names. So God bless you. Have a nice day!
God is God? Interesting logical fallacy..
I’ll stick with science and reasoning. Have a nice day yourself.
Science is wonderful , God also. Therefore it is very important that we talk about religion without using derogatory or ignoring the ideas of others. It is our ideas , not to disqualify those of others . Regards.
When others “ideas” are corrupting civil society, politics, education and even health care, while enjoying tax free heavens and all kinds of social benefits that organized religion benefits from, then my friend, I cannot care less about being polite. I care about the future of humanity, planet Earth and all its inhabitants. What are the thousands of religions around the world doing to develop and protect it? Making masses believe in fairy tales that have no place on a scientifically developed society is for sure not the way to go. What’s the difference between believing in God (whatever that is, since there “are/were” hundreds if not thousands of gods throughout history) and believing in unicorns? The scientific proof for the existence of both are exactly the same: nonexistent. So I’m sorry if I’m rude in your perception, but I want the future human generation to be intelligent, rational, factual, compassionate. Not brainwashed into believing in fictional stories.
Yes, people should (and should be required to) keep their religious beliefs private! Due to migration, ease of travel and modern communications people of various backgrounds, origins and races get into dangerous proximity. One may offend others by his/her beliefs and “strange” traditions too easily. Those who support unlimited religious freedom as one of basic human rights should not confuse human spirituality for human superstition and religion for something generally positive – learn from the history – blood an pain, rivers of blood because of false prophets and false gods.
Religion is not a set of rules and regulations. Religion is the manifestation of a way of life , and that can not hide . And as a way of life offends neighbor , then it is not a religion authentically …
I actually don’t know
“According to Eurobarometer, 77% of EU citizens consider themselves to be religious.”
Well I’m stunned now. All this time I’ve read that the EU is far from religious. I’ve been misinformed. Go figure.
yes… everyone should keep their religious beliefs private!
yes!
definitly YES!!!
Unfortunately there is no god and there is no devil there only is good and evil once the planet gets to grips with that we will all get on with each other
Not Orthodox Christians, the truth cant be cept private otherwise the rocks will screem
Yessssss!
That was the best side of Yugoslavia!
Absolutely. And it should not be shown publicly as well in what fairy tales someone believes. Star Wars aside though :-)
Jesus said: “Go and teach all nations.” So why religion be private? No way. Just because some morons are killing citizen? Well, they will go on hell and who was killed, on Heaven. Dont change the rules.
I don’t believe in your Eurobarometer . American are very religious like this : Within two years of graduation, seven out of 10 college students stop attending church; less than 30 percent of 18- to 29-year-olds says their religious beliefs are important; and 20 percent of Americans claims no religious affiliation. Across the nation, young people are leaving the faith, and churches are at a loss regarding how to stop it. http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/48226-can-we-stop-the-70-percent-of-young-adults-who-drop-out-of-church
Hell yes!
Including atheists, yes
YES!
No,we must share the truth how you can keep it personal if u want salvation ?
Yes ! that’s exactly all we need to live together in peace and harmony. Religious beliefs, sexual preferences, and all that kind of thing is intimate, should not be shown in public, it’s personal choice and private matter.
Europe is christian – and we must ban Islam – aut from Europe – und make hem criminal
Maybe we should gag you idiots politicians, with this kind of questions? Let me guess, you are atheist? Christianity is FOUNDATION of Europe! How about keeping atheists commie ideology PRIVATE?
Absolutely
Yes plz.
This would probably be THE solution …namely for countries which are said Laïc but do not know how in practice to implement it. This may solve the problem in France and Belgium where the State totally lost control of the situation …but it won’t happen. .. no churches no mosques no synagogues..?
YES!
Yes!!!
Yes, religion should be a private matter. In a healthy functioning society, privacy and religion make up a kind of buffer zone between the public and intimate spheres.
Viewed from the public sphere, religion seems an intimate matter. Viewed from the intimate space, a public matter. Therefore “private”. But “our” society lacks such distinctions.
Viewed from the public sphere, religion seems an intimate matter. Viewed from the intimate space, a public matter. Therefore “private”. But “our” society lacks such distinctions.
No. If your religion is real for you its bound to be expressed. The problem lies in not attempting to make others follow your particular religion.
No. If your religion is real for you its bound to be expressed. The problem lies in not attempting to make others follow your particular religion.
Freedom of speech would not be freedom of speech if people were not allowed to express their religious beliefs. However, freedom of speech also implies the freedom to NOT listen to such expressions (choosing to go to church as opposed to being forced to listen to it), and it has nothing to do with what’s being taught in schools. So by all means, express your belief in magical sky-fairies, but stop bothering people who do not want to be bothered, and stop trying to teach it to children as if it has any scientific, historical, or factual merit.
No svet brez religij -e bi bil veliko lepši in pravičnejši. ..
Why curtail freedom of expression and freedom of religion?! Buy if the religion harms or threatens other people civil and human rights laws should be enforced!
I completely agree. I ask for no concessions for my atheism. Indulge in the privacy of your home but when you step outside your front door you are just a regular person. End of.
NO, providing they don’t intend to change other people’s religion.
Why should Christian Europe hide its roots – tradition ?
YES
Most certainly. Believers of differents religions must not be obliged to endure one’s beliefs public demonstrations.
This way none can be stigmatised for their beliefs as those remain private.
Yes !
Yes !
Yes, of course.
Yes. Religion should stay behind the front door!
everyone believes in something, even if you believe in nothing, you’re a believer. Human people are a unity, and you can’t split your personality permanently without suffering serious damages at long term. I have one brain, at home, at work, etc. I have one spirit (soul, or whatever you tell the intimacy), not various spirits.
Your believes impacts definitively in every thing you do, say and think; so you can’t close your beliefs and keep behind front door.
Why religion should stay behind the front door, and other “beliefs” can be in the middle of the society (school, work, politics, media). This beliefs are another kind of religion: they have a god (money, sex, etc.), priests (famous people like singers, journalists, politicians…), rites (you have think in this politically correct way, act in this politically correct way, etc.), even penalties (a fine, crime, jail…) if you attack, or simply don’t act in the “correct way”.
I think that the problem is the Truth. Many people don’t know the Truth, and they are lost and go seeking it, because human soul is designed for the Truth.
Religion must be private.
But what does this ‘private’ means? Does it mean any religious identity or activity that breaches other’s privacy? For example, should state ban any religious identity (veil or any other dress that exposes religious identity, locket or pendant, head scarf of Jewish woman, red tip of married Hindu woman) or activity which is exposed publicly (for example any state policy which allows provisions for vacation or office hours during Ramadan, Christmas or vacation on a puja, five times a day prayer time, building Mosques, Churches or Temples, assembly in Mosques, Churches or Temples, any public function related to religion (Rally, gathering or others of similar kinds)?
Is not it really difficult to draw a line, which activity is private which are not?
Religion should stay away from schools for example (and other public institutions). I don’t agree with public bans on personal religious symbols (veils, crosses, etc), even in schools, but I’m strongly against any kind of indoctrination from public schools and other public organisms. I’m an atheist but a strong defender of personal liberty and freedom of speech, so public demonstrations of religion should not be banned in any way (unless those influence and limit other’s liberties and well being). Religion is like a penis, it’s ok to have one but don’t go around showing it to kids, keep it in your pants inside schools, don’t force it on anyone..
Religions are all man made CULTS…..they are simply made to CONTROL …..They do not actually bring people together …rather they separate people and only cause hate or jealosy. There will be peace on our planet once religion becomes obsolete and then and only then will humankind accept each other !
Secularism is the way forward.
Reigion has been nothing but divisive for europeans for thousands of years
You owe your citizenship to the state and the EU first before your church or organisation.
Religion needs to get out of schools and politics.
Indoctrination and social exclusion should not be allowed in the 21st century.
Yes, I do think beliefs should left up to the individual to decide what they do or do not belief. I think everyone has the birth right to belief as they see fit for themselves and not be persecuted for it. We need this in America too!!
Any person or persons who can’t abide by the ways of live music,culture and community where they are living should go back to their country
Interesting idea. So let’s tell the North Americans and the Australians (~541 million people) to go back to their countries since they don’t abide by the ways of the native people.
It’s is time that we people in the World,start to learn about tolerance,acceptance,freedom of religion.I am not mentioned names but DOES fanatic who always think they can have their way.By trying to enforce their belief system of Religion upon thousands of thousands of thousands of people.Its not going to work.Under any country operating a democratic system.People have rights to dress as they like,people have rights to believe in whatever form they wish ,people have rights to be gay,lesbians,homosexual,transgender,Christian,Buddhist,Hinduism,Judaism etc Why are some people killing others because they don’t believe in whatever they believe?Governments have to stop this madness.
“By trying to enforce their belief system of Religion upon thousands of thousands of thousands of people.Its not going to work.Under any country operating a democratic system”
It’s not going to work? I would say it is working! And it’s working quite fast! I would like to live in a utopian world of happiness and peace too. But that’s not the case, especially when humans are involved…
Europe’s over tolerance and political correctness from pretty much all mainstream politicians and society in general has proven to be one of the worst dangerous mistakes that we did. If you’re in the UK, you probably know that pretty much every week there are rallies organized by Muslim communities demanding and inciting the overthrown of the democratic system to have sharia law implemented instead. They are openly vocal when it comes to their intentions, which include the murder of every non-believer, the raping of the women as spoils of holly war, etc. This is a crime. It’s illegal. But the politicians don’t intervene because they are afraid of public criticism… yes, because we prefer to live this wet dream of political correctness and Utopian worlds of multiculturalism instead of standing our ground and defend human values. In France there are now hundreds of city areas completely controlled by Muslim criminals, enforcing sharia law, areas where the police doesn’t dare go. The same in Belgium.. and soon to be several other central European countries.
People have the right to dress as they want? No they don’t… I can’t cover my face when I go to a supermarket, they won’t allow me. But a woman in a burka can. Political correctness again…
Don’t take me wrong, I’m not a islamophobe, some of my closest friends are Muslim. The problem with organized religion is the way they go about their businesses. Freedom of religion is a very beautiful fictional concept. How about my kids being indoctrinated into religions in public schools? Or religions that want religion state law? Let’s all be all political correct and naive, and in 10 years when a religion of violence and extreme humans rights abuse completely dominates Europe, let’s ask the question again and see how opinions change… By then, maybe this forum will be written in another language….
Peace.
I don’t know why some people like to imposed their ideas or belief upon anyone if you don’t believe in God kept.your believe to yourself,if your believe in a tree,river,godness,Spirit your bread.People have to realize that we are not in the position to teach,riculue the culture,customs and cultural heritage where you are living.Countries like Britain,America and Western Europe are tolerant towards others people Religion belief.Can my friend tell if it was some countries which he /she knows,I don’t need to mention.Can people come out and practise their faith ,without being persecuted.
What if “your god” says that you have to impose your beliefs on others? What if this religion preaches hate, violence, women subjugation…? When does the freedom of religion starts and ends? Will you criminalize these religions? Will you just ignore their praises? How will you protect the native people that don’t share those same religious values? I really want answers, because this political correctness and naivety has already cause too many rapes in Europe, too many indoctrination, too many human suffering. And for what? Multiculturalism? Freedom? Any other big word clichés?…
There is not wrong with Religion.The problem is some people in powerful position,cabal ,politicians,powers to be,are using religion to oppress people,hidden people human rights in the Name of Religion.A some group of people who don’t have anything to do about religion have be hiding behind Religion to commit crimes against humanity since 500BC .God is not wicked its human being who minds are corrupt because of selfishness,and greed.Lack of love and human tolerance is issues we needs to sort out.
Ask them Why are they bombing cities because of Religion?Why do they rape young girls,innocent women in the Name of Religion?Who sent them ? God is not a hire killer,men kill,women kill.Before their was religion,people where living.Ask them sincerely from all the year’s of holy wars ,crusaders.What have they gained?What is their achievements?I believe in God,but am not going to be brainwashed to blow up people or become a terrorist in the Name of a false God.Does that commit crimes in the Name of Religion,have mentality problems and let themselves become instument in the hands of wicked fanatic.Religion is not bad ,its people who refused to question does outdated Holy Books teaching presentation.
I respectfully disagree. Not because I’m an atheist. People in power often use religion as an escape goat, that’s true. But they learned that from the religious institutions themselves. Those are the first ones hiding behind their own fate and using masses indoctrination to go about their ways.
“God is not a hire killer,men kill,women kill.”
First of all, which god?? Since there are so many…. But anyway, you sure he’s not all that? Because when I read the bible and the quran that’s not what I see at all. In the words of professor Richard Dawkins:
“[God is] a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser , a misogynistic, homophobic racist, an infanticidal, genocidal, phillicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
And I’m sorry, as much as I want to believe otherwise, this is the only logical conclusion from all the violent fables taught in these holy books. You can’t refute this, the stories are plain clear, in any language that you want to read them, it’s hard to misinterpret.
The problem with politicians in Europe and people is they are afraid the stand upon what they believe in.In Uk where I live,there is other Religion(1)Judaism
(2)Christianity
(3)Hinduism
(4)Buddhism
(5)Sikhism
(6)Jainism etc
So why is that only one Religion trying to be superior to than others.Politicians in Europe are tolerant towards Muslims and fanatic hate preachers because of self guilt they,claim of being Christians ,followers of Jesus Christ.But they are worst than people who don’t believe in God.There policies and the life of thousands of our politicians have questionable dark sides.Most of the government’s officials who claim we are this and that are making of billions of dollars through selling of weapons of mass destruction to the fanatic dictators in does countries.Ask Americans who train Osama bin Laden?Why did UK and USA invading of Iraq ?Iran ,Saudi Arabia,Russia Egypt,India is closer to solution to Asia problems.So what Europe and America business in the Middle east?Why are European government’s taken in millions of refugees?Why are hate preachers not deported?Why are European people not speaking out,any one who said this is what I believe in is killed or acssued of anti-Religion.People in Europe are turning a blind eye to the problems does fanatic are causing.
I believe in the living God.Scientific proves to there is God.Because man is not capable of creating the greatest wonderfully things in the world.Thats my believe,put I can’t go around imposing that upon people.Why are some people always uncomfortable with what someone believe in.I don’t have problems with atheist,Muslims,Judaism,homosexual,gay,Lesbians etc.The are different God’s but some people are brainwashed by some fanatic teaching.Study the life history of Jesus Christ(Christianity)Mohammed(lslam)Jainism,Buddhism
Greed,selfishness,mind controling of thousands of thousands of people.
Look at does countries in the Middle east human rights of women are suppress,gay,lesbians and trangenders are killed.You as an atheist don’t have a chance there .
There’s absolutely ZERO scientific proofs of any god, don’t spread nonsense please. There’s as much scientific proof for any god as there are proof of the existence of unicorns, or the tooth fairy. See, this is a good example of indoctrination. A religious man claiming scientific proof of god, which is completely false. Never the less you love to come her and indoctrinate. I don’t care if you believe in superstitious nonsense, but don’t make false claims! Especially claiming the existence of scientific proof of god, when that’s false and every scientist in the planet that is worth the name agrees with me. So this is how you want your religious freedom? False scientific claims. I bet that that’s what you want in schools too. Creationism in science classes perhaps. I wouldn’t be surprised… Religions is nothing but mind control through ignorance and fear. I don’t want that in my kids schools, in my community! Go learn some science for a change.
“Scientific proves to there is God.Because man is not capable of creating the greatest wonderfully things in the world”
This is one of the most ignorant statements you could make. A basic logical fallacy. Because you can’t explain something, you attribute it to a superior being. Because your ignorance doesn’t allow you to understand, that must be the sign that there’s a god. Your critical thinking and analytical capabilities are very weak. No wonder you were easily seduced by religion….
God is our Father . We are all brothers and we must respect and love , and the way to God’s love is different for each. Only God can know our deepest desires and thoughts and man should NEVER nor can judge others . If we let them have freedom to publicly live each according to his religion , I’m sure the world PEACE IS POSSIBLE , AND WITH PEACE the prosperity and happiness i POSSIBLE.
I’m sure you have nice intentions and all, but that doesn’t really solve anything does it? Actually, it gives you a perfectly good convenient excuse to sit back and do nothing. If you believe that your imaginary god will come to save you and bring world peace, why should you move your ass….? I’m trully amazed by the lack of scientific understanding of today’s society. The indoctrination and mind control is appalling.
Love ,does who are bombing people,raping innocent helpless women killing gay and lebaisn,do the have love?Does calling Christians pug and apes have love in their heart’s?Does who are carrying out Religious cleaning,ethnic cleaning have love?
Ask them where is their God and what does that their God stand for
(1)A God that support Jihadist terrorism(Holy War )
(2)God that supports raping women,enslavement of thousands of innocent people.
(3)Religion that doesn’t have mercy in their Holy Books teaching.
(4)People who come to foreign countries and territories given opportunities to be places of worship,educational opportunities for their children.But still want to overthrow the government of the place.Commit crimes against humanity.
(5)Where is Love ?Where is peace?
(6)After being shown tolerance and love accepting millions of refugees into Europe.Repayment is by sexually molesting innocent women.
(7)Love can’t be practices because love is not in the foundation some Religion.
Blablablablabla….. “my religion is better than yours”, this discussion reached the quality of a teenagers fight… No arguments, no solution, lots of blablablablabla
Love should be the basis of any religion , because man tends to love, looking for love , you need to love and be loved and being loved .
When there is an absence of love, God is not present.
never a religion is better than another … a human being can be better than another and their actions can only describe …
Who has no interest in a subject does not think about it …
more political correct blablablablabla…..
It’s because of this mindset of fear and political correctness that Europe is being invaded by extreme Islam and economical refugees. Shariah law soon in a town near you…
Joao what’s your thoughts, what’s your solution.
When it comes to the original question of this forum, it’s my personal opinion that religion should stay away from all aspects of society, specifically schools, all public institutions, all educational activities, and especially (and I can’t stress this enough), out of politics! Why does the UK, for example, has 26 seats in the House of Lords for Church of England bishops?! Like someone pointed out quite wisely, if the House of Lords had 26 reserved seats for white men it would be an outrage and rightly so. I don’t want religious law of any kind, I don’t want politics being influenced by religious agenda.
Keep religious symbols to religious locations (churches, mosques,synagogues, etc). I’m a big supporter of personal liberties so even though I’m an atheist I do agree that religious persons should be free to wear whatever clothes or religious ornaments they decide to. But under any circumstances any religious groups can have special treatment such as Muslim women wearing full burkas being able to walk around public places (government institutions, airports, shopping malls and similar locations) with their faces completely covered when no one else would be allow to do the same. Religion cannot be an excuse not to abide the same laws and rules that anyone else has to abide. And this brings me to another lovely aspect of organized religion and politics. Taxes. Yes… religion institutions should pay taxes like everyone else and I don’t agree with any kind of financial support to religious institutions by the government. Yes, because it’s disgusting to me that my tax money is being wasted in something that I find to bring absolutely nothing of value to society, by the contrary. So I think you get my point when it comes to religion in society. I’m a libertarian, do whatever you want but keep it our of my live, my kids and family life, our schools, our public institutions, our parliaments and political scene. Keep it to yourself!
Coming to the refugees situation that we also discussed here, what Merkel did was one of the dumbest and dangerous mistakes any European politician could do. I’m not surprised since Merkel is a very weak politician. The harm is done. It’s estimated that over 5000 jihadists and ISIS members or affiliates have already entered Europe, more terrorist attacks will happen, more fascist politics will be implemented, martial law, “homeland security act” kind of laws will be in place soon, total population control is the final goal and the refugee crisis is their fastest and easiest way to achieve it (organized religion lost its job here). So let’s learn from the Australian example. They also had a refugee crisis and they also had hundreds of boats with thousands of people arriving at their shores. Many people died at sea, just like many are dying at sea as we speak, trying to reach Europe. What did the Australians did? They said, we welcome refugees but with rules. Don’t come in boats because if you come through this root you won’t be allowed to enter the country. And the boats stopped. With that, the number of refugees dying at sea got almost to zero, the mafias of people trafficking lost their business, and the Australians were now able to manage the crisis, review and accept asylum to the real refugees. It’s called controlling your own boarders, something that any sovereign state should be able to do (but since in Europe there are no more national sovereign states…)
Europe needs to close its doors, abandon the puppet master USA and all its fabricated wars. We create the wars and then get so surprised about the humanitarian crisis created by ourselves…. it’s so logical that a 10yo with two brain cells could figure this out by him/herself.
In a final word regarding the specific problem of radical Muslim in Europe, a word to all the pussy politicians that we keep electing in our massified ignorance: stop the political correctness and enforce the rule of law. I’ve seen with my own eyes religious rallies in the UK, Belgium and Sweden of mobs of people demanding Shariah law, appealing the death of politicians, police and all non-believers. First of all this is illegal in this countries. But of course our politicians are more worried about their own public image than to enforce the law. I want this people in jail. You can’t have entire neighborhoods in the UK, for example, where people don’t even speak English. You can’t have mosques where the only language is Arabic, where imams are indoctrinating masses of people to subjugate the Brits, to kill them, to send them to hell.
I don’t want religion in society, but I’m not a fascist to decide or even push for that. But the social results of religion are so negative, so detrimental, so dangerous for society as a whole and especially at an individual level, that I can only conclude that religion is a result of social evolution, and I truly hope that human values and scientific understanding will eventually phase out religion to the history books where it belongs.
Some people because of weaknesses to fight for the freedom of thousands of thousands of people.Or to stand and leave Religion,at one side and face reality.What reality?
Religion is not the problems the problems is the people who in the Name of Religion commit crimes against humanity.Religious people producing child pornography.Religious people who are carrying hard drugs ,owners of the multi billions pornography business in the world.From research who are the majority owners of thousands of strip clubs in the world.The reality is that religion is the most easier way to brainwashed and enslavement of thousands of thousands of people in the World today.
Does claiming that we are Christians,we are Muslims,we practise Judaism,we practise Buddhism etc
Have a secret agenda to be in control of our world.
Why are the politicians who are paedophile not brought to Justice?Religion is Diversity,Religion is endurance because it deals with the big issues in life.But the problems with over dependency on saying and teaching of some Religious leaders who don’t have anything good about their life history without find out and questions the author of some Holy books is suicide.
The minority of thousands of thousands of bad people in the World major Religion have spoiled the sence purpose of believing in God.
It is a heartbroken thing and painful to see that majority of the pornography industry in the world is run by a particular Religious group(which am not mentioning)
Hard drugs business is carried out in a country who claims that Priest should not marry and flock to Italy yearly.
Even UK is deceving their self calling their self a Christian country.
Religion needs to be.regulated and anyone who commit crimes against humanity in the Name of Religion should be punished seriously.
Does behind-the-scenes Religious sect who are in charge of thousands of thousands of child pornography industry should be brought to Justice.
Religious and politicalleaders who are paedophile should be brought to Justice.
What are the crimes against humanity in the Name of Religion.
(1)Religious cleaning of millions of minority people in a particular area eg Turkey Armenian Genocide
(2)Buddhist Burma Human sacrifice of 1850s
(3)Thuggee Murders Members of the India sect strangled people as sacrifice to appease the bloodthirsty goddess Kali
(3)Mountain Meadows Massacre1857
(4)The Inquisition of the Roman Catholic church 1184-1230s
(5)The Witch Hunts1600s
(6)Roman Persecution of thousands of thousands of Christians by Emperor Nero.in 64AD
(7)Aztec Human sacrifice of 1300
(8)Islamic Jihads mandated by the Koran killed millions over 12 centuries.Google Usman dan Fodio Jihad
This is a few atrocities committed in the Name of Religion.
When are people who come crimes against humanity in the Name of Religion be brought to Justice.?
Religion is not the problems.The problems is that religion is the one weapon to control millions of people easily.Religion is the most powerful instruments money to brainwashed and enslavement mankind.Because World leaders and politicians want to stay in power by all means,
For example look at Iran,Saudi Arabia,China,Uk,India etc Turkey President is pushing for a Muslim state too.
Manyv millions of people are brainwashed by thinking Religion is the answer to their problems both economic,social,financial challenges.Does in power hide behind Religion to commit crimes against humanity in the Name of Religion.In the United kingdom as you mentioned,what is the Importance of the 26 Lords in the houses of Lord,who are jusr figure heads when a democratic government is passing Laws to favour same-marriage,wear of hijab in schools,UK soldiers fighting unnecessary battles.
Why should we have separate Religion school in UK and USA where young innocent people are brainwashed and emotional abuse by Religious fanatics.I believe and support that religion should be separated from politics,government and some churches,temples and mosques should be closed down.
But how are we going to do that? Millions of thousands of refugees from Middle east are already in Europe now.Fake Christians are using churches to defraud innocent people.Every thing is mixed up.Religion should not be life threatening and enslavement,freedom too believe in the way,seems best for you.How are we going to clean up the mess that religion has caused the world?
“How are we going to clean up the mess that religion has caused the world?”
I would tell you, but 3 posts after you were not able to refuted or comment absolutely nothing I said, so I won’t loose more of my time. Have a good one.
Criticism and finger pointing can’t solve the situation.Argument bacis on scientific principles or religious beliefs is like defending Religion.Solution is needed ,but those who say they don’t believe in God or Religion,have not been able to solve the problems on ground.It is very easy to point fingers or blame crisis upon people or systems.But how many people outside the framework of Religion can progress into the right direction.I not against antiest or fanatics,but let your Religion or ideas be privately.Not enslavement of people for control and self gain .We are looking for solution and enlightenment on this forum.Not criticism.Thanks.
Rhetoric and blablabla is all I see here.
No. The min people start keeping their religion private, the anti religion brigade will try and make it out that religion does not exist anymore. I don’t believe in shoving it in peoples faces, but if they don’t like I have a faith, then tough luck.
No. The min people start keeping their religion private, the anti religion brigade will try and make it out that religion does not exist anymore. I don’t believe in shoving it in peoples faces, but if they don’t like I have a faith, then tough luck.
im an agnostic, but too much secularism leads to more cultural marxism and globalism