UPDATE 26/01/2015: Greece has a new government! The radical left SYRIZA party of Alexis Tsipras performed even better than expected in Sunday’s election, and secured 149 seats in the 300-seat Hellenic Parliament – just shy of a majority. The latest news is that SYRIZA has made a deal with the populist, right-wing Independent Greeks party. The new government will have a working majority of 162 seats. Both parties in the new coalition can agree on being against austerity, but will a radical left and a populist right-wing party be comfortable partners?
Will the Greek elections plunge the Eurozone back into crisis? The threat of political upheaval in Greece has again raised concerns that the country might leave the Single Currency, evoking memories of similar fears in 2012.
The radical left Syriza party leads in the polls, with its leader, Alexis Tsipras, pledging to reverse economic reforms undertaken by the current government, launch an €11 billion welfare package, and renegotiate Greece’s bailout conditions in order to write off much of its debt.
However, the German government has signalled that the terms are not up for negotiation and that it expects Greece to stick to the existing agreement.
Tsipras has said he does not want Greece to exit the Euro, and there is no formal mechanism in place to eject a country if it does not voluntarily want to leave. Nevertheless, time would not be on his side; the country has a two-month extension on its bail-out which expires at the end of February.
There are significant differences between 2015 and the dark days of 2012. The Eurozone is arguably more robust with more tools in place to fight a crisis, and European banks are much less exposed to Greece. However, with the Euro area officially moving into deflation, weakness in Russia thanks to sanctions and falling oil prices, and slowing growth in the developing world, the global economy looks fragile.
Should Greece try to renegotiate with the troika? Or should it see the bail-out programme through to the end? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions!
336 comments Post a commentcomment
Greece should leave the EU altogerher.
You can always leave the EU yourself on a one way trip. Even though you have expressed no explanation for what reason you believe this. It just makes you look backward and a nuisance.
Greece should leave the EU,they should be supported by any country who has any doubts about the European project.They should take back control of their own country,whether they thrive or fail is to a large degree irrelevant ,at least their fate will be their own to control.Who is to say whether they are courageous or stupid,at least they have the balls to Stan d up and tell the Brussels elite where to go ,and I hope they do.I will go on holiday to Greece regardless ,normal people will not hold the Greek people in contempt.I wish more countries had the balls to tell Brussels to go to Hell,and to all those whining about what will happen when the European project fails, I say who cares,it was destined to fail,the sooner you realise it the better.
Not only greece, all of the si called PIGS that EU totalitarism have drowned in unpayable debt. Why would the European central bank provide money for banks to buy state debt which we need to return at high interest and not provide it directly to buy state debt? Why? Because the EU was made as a scam so the elite would profit.
Because the banks have stolen the money from the people: that’s why they should pay!!!!
we all should , or have financial corps pay huge taxes for they are allowed banking and trading and they are offered such good working conditions by the states they live on .
The bail out of market vulture conditions killed the country.A negotiation to erase EXCESS illegal debt with a big period of frinzement is inevitable to save EURO and EU.
Greece is disgusting debthole. Greece OUT of EU!
Please show some respect to the country that gave you most of what you enjoy today. Making such comments dont forget that the name Europe is Greek, so if we leave then we take our name with us. Find a new name for your Bank driven Union.
@Gogo Ipi
Your comments are UNACCEPTABLE.
I agree with Tarquin Garquhar about the respect we have to show to the country that gave the lights of civilization to all Europeans. Furthermore, driving away Greece from European Union will have inaculcuable concequences and will lead to possible economic collapse of European economic zone. European Union is not a pazzle of nations but a net of interconnected countries, people and economies.And it is very early to be driven to conclusions about next governement of Greece, since it has not yet shown its tactics, governemental work and reconstitution of the Greek state.
Greeks have been playing with the ancient greeks to gain sympathy amongst west. But they are simply christians that hate Zeus and other gods were worshiped in ancient greece. So have the now a day greeks anything to do with ancient classic greeks?
Yes you greedy bankers should bugger off with your insane interest rates. The “allies” betrayed Greece by giving Asia minor to Turkey, Germany destroyed the Greek economy during WW2 and you dare speak as if Greece owes you something?
Not to mention the War loans of WW2 that sum up to Billions that Germany refuses to even discuss returning to Greeks.
It won’t
For what we are paying to all the euro bureaucrats seat in Brussels? What is the meaning of the European Parliament? We are paying to a king and all is vassals to do nothing? One goes to ski with all the family….Another’s are traveling and we are paying them to do nothing…… Why they work 4 days per week? Why them must earn almost ? 175 per day? What they are doing in EP? We pay to them, and they envoy a good life for minimum 5 years……
CYPRUS MUST FOLLOW GREECE STEPS OUT OF EURO BECAUSE TROIKA DESTROYED CYPRUS ECONOMY
Yes and other European States must follow suit and stand by Greece. If Greece wins it will benefit other members too. Creating a more socialist and human oriented Europe is what we must strive for and the struggles of Greece could initiate that, to break the neoliberal, elitist and lobby ruled EU. Not that I find Syriza the best option or I agree with all that they are saying, but right now, they are the only ones who stand up to the unfair and unequal treatment of the peripheral economies of Europe by the Troika. And the fact that Merkel and her ilk fear them is a good thing!!
Greece is better off without the wealth-destroying Euro and you know it.
My spaghetti meatballs, is there no limit to the sociopathy of those who want ‘more EU’, ‘more Europe’, more bailouts for the rich, more austerity for the poor, more technocratic rule etc?
You either stand for democracy, or for the EU. You either stand for ordinary people and their daily struggles, or for the Euro. In both cases, the options are mutually exclusive.
Who told you Marcel that I want more bail outs for the rich? I want a more equal Europe and for that we need a more integrated one..
The logic says, that if someone owes money (we’ll leave from the moment the reasons), then the lender should try to make him work harder to pay him back! Instead, the lenders forced Greece to follow a programme that finally accomplished:
-To increase the unemployment from 10%… to 35%!
-To increase the public debt from 120% of GDP… TO 180%, in spite the two catastrophic internal haircuts, almost 40% of the debt!!!
-To increase arithmetically the debt from 290 bis… to 340 bis, in spite the 135 bis haircut from greek banks and insurance funds.
-To decrease the GDP 35%
-To povertize the 30% of the families and to make the 55% of the people unable to pay their bills.
-To destroy the real economy, and to make it almost impossible to reborn!
FOR THESE DAMAGES WHO’S GONNA PAY????
So why did Greeks, in 2012, vote for a man (Samaras) who’se programme was bailouts for the rich and austerity for the poor? Samaras shielded his friends from austerity, hands out favors to them etc… I mean, the man loves Franco-German bankers more than he loves you.
Because the scaremongering from Germany worked, Marcel. Unfortunately they are trying it again by warning the Greek people to ‘vote right’ (meaning not to vote for Syriza (Tsipras) ) Let’s hope that this time their tactics won’t work and that the Greek people will vote Syriza.
Why these unmanagable debts occurred in the first place? Is anyone making inquiries on some greeks that got billionary rich? These money didn’t come from thin air. If the democracy of greece was corrupt than why u don’t invite even Columbia in EU? Probably Afganistan should become a member too. If Greeks bails out it helps the greek democracy to punish the greek billionaries and the democracy would heal itself. No work no money.
Yes, they must
Renegotiating seems honestly like a certain measure, since the terms nowadays are not actually correct and the financial program is not truly functional
No, they should just pay. as every country ever did…Oh wait,Germany 1953! But Germans are Germans…they’ve got blue eyes and golden hair :P
Eurozone is dead, the body found in Athens by Tsipras, delete greek debt and get dead body back
They can do a deal. Just uphold two critical conditions: (1) Structural reforms can not be reversed and must continue (pace to be agreed) so that Greece can develop sustainably and cease borrowing from the Troika; (2) All bailout debts to Eurozone partners will be repaid….exact schedule to be negotiated and who really cares how long it takes. If those two European red-lines are not good enough for Greece, then please leave now. Of course SYRIZA wants more, but the world doesn’t owe them a thing.
I dont think that SYRIZA would be as radical as it claims if it takes over power. Its all about winning the elections. As O.Palme used to say: “The soup will not be eaten as hot as it’s cooked”.
But, regardless its stance, a political debate should be held about the public debt. Its not just Greece, there are many overdebt countries among EU, even the most developed ones (e.g. France & Belgium are close to 100%).. Considering the dynamic of the public debts in all EU countries, and given the crisis, in several years we cannot talk about viability.
Therefore, EU has to make some decisive steps.. a key point, for me, is a reform in the Founding Treaties regarding the role of the ECB (purchase of state bonds), in order to give some breaths to the weaker states. Besides, its unffair and unethical what’s been happening all these years, the poor countries forced to borrow with 6, 7% or more from the intrenational speculators and at the expense of their people.. isnt it?
What you are discussing (ECB buying bonds), first of all is illegal as per the EU treaties. And second, would in the end only end up enriching the rich and further impoverishing the middle class and the poor as it has done in the USA and in Japan. Central banks buying assets disproportionately held by the rich always ends up enriching the rich.
And what’s more, countries should never borrow money in the first place. If you don’t have it, don’t spend it.
That’s exactly the problem. Because the politician promise many before the election and do other after!!! Also there is no united Europr, there is only a profit oriented policy for the wealthier EU counries….
Yes!
YES!
My article in reviews
https://m.facebook.com/financialtimes
No , Greece should leave.
Why are you insisting in Greece’s ejection from Eurozone? It will only have negative concequences for the whole Europe. On the contrary, posible positive changes in Greece will have positive effects for all countries suffering from economic problems and concequently for the whole Eurozone.
Any lender borrower relationship should be managed by the parties concerned. Why would one oppose a renegotiation?
Why should we pay for Greece? Not to be trusted
Not at all
If Greece leave euro
County will be default so
Help Greece
The Greeks are lazy
and unemployed….
Dear Josephine, please look into the truth of the matter before just throwing out generalized comments about the people of a nation. Unless you are from a country where everything and everyone is perfect of course. As you can see people commenting here have well rounded comments, so, on behalf of the Greeks, please read more into the Greek people before judging.
Well, you should know that Greeks work a lot of hours. They work, on average, the most hours in EU. Just look at this article from BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304 . I see in none of the categories your country, Malta. I know, our state is a mess, but still, you see we work the most. Just come here to watch it your self. And as the others said, don’t judge from stereotypes.
Dimiou:
being present at work =/= productivity
@T K
Didn’t YOU make racially offensive remarks yourself on this website?
Is My way or the highway time.
No. If Greece leaves the EU its the colapse of the european project.
And good riddance it would be. Why would you want a project designed to benefit only the rich to continue?
This is true…………..
If Alexis Tsipras and his team of economists are smart, they will be fully aware of the intentions of the financial department of this global empire to reduce the working class to dire poverty. And once in their hands will clean out our entire assets. Greece is already being bought up by the carpet baggers.
If I can once again put up the link offered by Bastian that shows just how they do it we will all benefit. Yes, it is slow to begin with, but, hang in there and voila, it suddenly falls solidly into place. Our countries are being asset stripped and big money is at the back of it. What we are facing is intentional and will leave us on our knees if not stopped.
http://www.positivemoney.org/2014/12/princes-yen-documentary/
If the Greeks are smart they will elect this party with a sound majority and then demand they stick to their promises in their manifesto. All of them.
https://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/04/18/support-european-lefts-manifesto/#.VK_VdXuyldd
If he follows through and does this, then we can follow suit and be free of the 5th column we have in our European midst reducing us all to frightened cowards.
Proven !
http://eblanademocraticmove.blogspot.ie/2015/01/why-europe-should-not-be-terrified-of.html?m=1. That’s why Europe should NOT fear Syriza
Greece should ask for help of EU in fight against corruption. EU should help Greece to modernize state and send some financial aid.
? ?????? ????? ??????? ????,? ????? ????? ?? ?????,????? ??? ????? ???????,??? ??????????????,??? ?? ??????,??????,??? ?????? ????.
kai esy prepei na pas na ma8eis ellhnika
Greece shouldn’t pay as german hasn’t paid his second war debts.. Greece should give us the example and leave Europe and Euro, because this Europe doesn’t represent his citizens, but only banks’power and German decisions. Our dream of Eu as an expression of diversity is died, sorry but i think that this europe doesn’t represent what his citizens would like
Actually, there are international agreements that say Germany doesn’t have war debts anymore. It may be unfortunate, but it is so. Please do not perpetuate the war debt myth, or worse the ‘stolen gold’ myth. The gold, at the time, was secured by Britain.
Why not bring the much need CHANGE needed in the US controlled slave camp ??Its not just Greece who i sick and tired, did you miss the huge jump in EuroSCEPTIC movenments across Europe ?? Europe either changes or in its current Banker model, is doomed.
Greek was in trouble when it had 120% of debt which amounted to 290 billion.
Now after the *help* EU and IMF gave us.We are at 180% debt and 320 billion.
Our economy is ruined,30% drop of GDP.close to 30% unemployment….most of the population cant keep up financially with the insane amount of taxes and at the same time their drop of income that is more than 30%.
Now that you know the truth….what do you think european citizens?Should Greece deny paying the debt or not?…and most importantly,who is gonna pay Greece the ruin that the *reforms* of the troika brought to Greece?
Giannis Lainas, I say ,tell them all to go to hell,tell them they won’t receive a penny more in repayments,re-adopt the drachma and for good or bad prepare for the pain of rebuilding your country.I truly wish you well,the pain I believe will be worth it.
All you have at the moment is the pain inflicted upon you by others.God knows we need someone to lead the way out of the catastrophe of the EU,sadly here in the UK we have only spineless leaders who won’t fight back.
Sure as hell it should. it’s a shame it’s being done so late. Portuguese and Greek debt should have been written down as soon as this whole mess started to make it remotely payable.
It’s a shame though, by now corporations and banks got rid of the debt they held (german and french banks held about 40bn of portuguese debt) and now it’s Troika who owns most of it.
It’s shameful we let bankers get away with it and push this renegotiation to european institutions, which are paid by all european citizens. This ain’t the way to go, I’m deeply pro EU, but I want an EU for its people, not its elites :(
Yes and ireland even more so because there are banks in business today that would be bankrupt were it not for the socialisation of private bank debt
No, Greece should not try to renegotiate, as a matter of act, should not even recognize the bailout, created by New Democracy and Pasok in their effort to create a ‘monster’ state with their own voters and friends,having consumed huge amounts of money and trying now to convince us that we owe. NO, I OWE NOBODY.
No we should wait until Golden Dawn is the biggest party in parliament and some German tourist has his head bashed in with a baseball bat while on holiday. Then it will become a “real problem” in Berlin because until then, Greek people being hungry and unemployed is not of concern to empress Angela
No we should wait until Golden Dawn is the biggest party in parliament and some German tourist has his head bashed in with a baseball bat while on holiday. Then it will become a “real problem” in Berlin because until then, Greek people being hungry and unemployed is not of concern to empress Angela
………….???????? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ~ 1.5% ??? 32 ??????…??? At ~ 1.5% Average Interest raterate and 32 years to pay??…….No better deal than 40 or 50 years and ~ 1%???…….Still say Thank you first!
Yes it should , but not only Greece. The point is not only Greece: it’s Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Ireland and finally Germany. You cannot simply say ” I give you solidarity, but..”, meaning you give solidarity in an exchange of benefits. Then, the whole notion of European Union is a fraud, a hypocritical means of international debt control. In my country we say ” What goes around comes around”. If EU does not bail out one of its nations’ debt , then this nation will stop paying and guess what? The other nations that buy its debt will fall to their own debts too. There is no success story ” United we rise, divided we fall” . It’s either rise or fall. And it may not be Greece doing this,it can be a nation with a bigger debt, less managable should it blow up.So, yes negiotiate and put growth, real growth on the table.
The whole idea behind the EU, the propaganda that people were given about it, always has been a complete fraud from day 1.
Propaganda: EU is there for you
Reality: EU does what the USA, bankers and corporations want, you can **** ***
I think they aren’t able to pay all the external debt in a few time. And point two: the external debt with the eurexit will double and it will become twice than their gross domestic product. They would fail anyway. Also politically it would be better if they maintained ?.
EU pays an unsuitable expensive therapy for Greece.We need a new deal with special conditions structural reforms and rules but without killing people.Greece is important part for EU for many reasons and not only for the GDP income.
After the WW II, the devastated country accepted amongst other countries, not to ask from Germany the compensations for the disasters they caused , as well as the forced loan and stealing of gold during the occupation, that Greece should be paid, so as to assist Germany to recover from the war, but ask them as other countries after the unification of West and East Germany
I have faith in a SYRIZA government and see it as the only option for Greece at this time. Samaras and his friends in EU are more concerned about the political change in Europe rather than the economy. I definitely support renegotiations.
How about I borrow 10,000 euros off you and I call you 2 years to say: ” Are you ok if I don’t pay you back as agreed? If you are, I won’t pay you, and if you are not ok with it, I still will not pay you.”
Let’s rewind your story a little. How about you create a fake need for me making me believe and bullying me to borrow 10000 Euros. Then you send your giant corrupt German companies and they tell me that you have to use your 10000 to buy from me. I tell you that Ok, you win, you made me need 10000 so I can borrow from you and you can make interest, how about you just give me the 1000000000 you owe me from WW2 would that be ok? When I say that you act like you don’t have signal on your phone and hang up. Now, please continue…
T.K., you are Greek?
Yes
Hi there & lets be honest……….
It’s not all that simple, like: “bullying me to borrow or lets buy “recklessly” some ‘fancy’ toys’ & enrich some political elites in the process ….! It always needs 2 to Tango- isn’t it?
Yes, tax treatments of bribes (“Schmiergelder”) were encouragements to foster a culture of “dishonesty” globally! But, Germany adopted new tax legislation on 24 March 1999 and Greece in 2006. Check out some facts on the “update of the anti bribery convention -June 2011″ & other incidents:
http://www.oecd.org/tax/crime/41353070.pdf
http://www.economist.com/node/1842124
http://mg.co.za/article/2013-06-14-00-revealed-yengenis-r6-million-kickback-agreement
TK, I knew it you were Greek when I read your comment. I am partly Greek and have lived there many years. I was there when Greece adopted the Euro and I have seen how Greece’s problems have built up. My experience is that being in denial of one’s own mistakes and constantly blaming something/someone external and refusing to accept one’s own responsibility is a very Greek thing. I agree that the Euro has not been organised the right way. How can you have a common currency when you don’t have a common fiscal policy? It also has not taken into consideration the cultural factors that affect the southern countries’ economies and there are not the right mechanisms in place to supervise and tackle those issues. My experience has been, and I say this with a lot of sadness, that Greece has got itself to blame for its woes and if it wasn’t for the Euro and the EU things would be a lot worse now. This man Tsipras reminds me of the kids at the Greek school I went to that would misbehave, perform poorly, show disrespect towards the teachers, private property and fellow school mates and act like it is really cool to be some kind of anarchist, only because their parents were actually very well off and could get them out of any trouble. If he takes over, Greece will be destroyed (yes, even further) but, sadly, having just returned from Greece and heard how people carry on, I don’t think they perceive that. If he implements what he proposes not only will incomes be brought further down but the country’s long term financial prospects will be ruined. Who wants to conduct business with and invest in a country that is unreliable and does not stick to its word and the contracts it has signed? How are you going to have jobs when there are no companies operating in Greece? He can destroy Greece completely, and it will not affect him because he is actually well off and keeps his own bank accounts in Switzerland. He is in it for the kicks of it. He doesn’t actually know anything about anything.
You see, the thing is I would never lend you money in the first place.
To all who think it’s reasonable for Greece to renegotiate it’s bailout program, I just leave you some thoughts:
Portugal (Ireland too) was also under bailout for 3 years. The Portuguese people made the necessary adjustments with alot of efforts, which costed us having one of the highest tax rates and one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe. But we honored the bailout program. I personally paid my part and I probably will keep paying for the next few decades.
Although our financial difficulties, the Portuguese people, the Portuguese tax payers, me included, we also contributed with 14.5 billions Euros to help the Greeks bailouts.
I see alot of Greek tactics to avoid paying, but I don’t see any Greek efforts to make the necessary adjustments to pay. I don’t even think they want to pay. What I see is the Greeks wanting the money, stay in Euro and in Europe but they can’t be bothered with anything that means efforts.
I already made my efforts with alot of difficulties, why should I keep paying for the Greeks if they don’t want to make any efforts?
Are the Portuguese and the Irish the idiots who pay and follow everything by the book, and the Greeks don’t follow anything, keep playing a poker game to avoid paying and at the end they get rewarded?
What kind of message is EU sending to the European citizens?
@Carlos Miranda:
Is it impossible for you to understand that you have been a victim of serial fraud. And what you have experienced by this so called austerity is simply a lie propagated by wealth and the politicians in their control in order to remove your natural right to livable earnings? What is the mental block holding you and us all from the shocking reality of this crime against us? And, as with your post above, backing the idea that another nation of people, the Greeks, should also be a victim to this abuse through lies the way you have been. Why would you want this for the Greek people and indeed for the rest of us? Can you please explain that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRdJod4wjSE
Can you please explain why you feel any country, people or tax payer should be forced to pay for debts of fraudulent financial institutions and those who run and back them? Why should you or Greece or any of us in the EU pay for banking fraud? Austerity is backing obvious banking fraud. And if you don’t believe that obvious fact, can you explain why you feel the way you do on this matter? Is it that you cannot understand the reality of economic deceit.
Face up to it, you have been mugged by your politicians who work to keep this confidence trick on the road and you give your consent to that mugging. Not only that, you are asking the Greek people, and in fact the rest of us, to also accept the same robbery with our collective consent. This is not the response of a balanced mind.
Dear Carlos, as a Greek I can assure you that the Greek people have made an even bigger and longer effort than yourself. Please read into it carefully since your comment seems interesting but not accurate. Greeks have been doing and will continue to do whatever needed for our country for the past 5000 years. Greeks are being used as a test dummy by the EU to see how much austerity they can put onto it’s people before they break. I believe they have chosen Greece to do this because over history we have proved to never give up. So, for the sake of all other EU citizens including yourself, let’s hope the testing is over and they leave us alone because the next time your country misbehaves who knows what they will enforce on you that has passed the Greece Test.
Congratulations, you have willingly contributed to bailouts for the rich at the expense of the poor of the middle class, you must feel so good about yourself.
But I ask myself this question, is it really true that people would rather give all their money to the rich rather than to admit that the EU is undemocratic and that the Euro destroys wealth? And that all of this benefits the rich at the expense of everyone else?
I have to compliment EU/IMF/ECB because their propaganda seems to have worked rather spectacularly well. To paraphrase Churchill, never have so many been conned in such a huge manner by so few.
Historians will marvel at how people were prepared to impoverish themselves to keep the EU/Euro alive a few more years.
And here we see that indeed we are being infiltrated by a fifth column hell bent on pussing in our faces. Against the majority wishes if the European citizens they are accepting bribes from the money men.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/agriculture/farming/11336184/English-farmers-could-grow-commercial-GM-crops-for-first-time.html
Can Syriza do anything about this deviant unelected group leading us into the abyss as now they are shoving this unlabled crock down out throats by TTIP and these bloody yanks who cant stay inside their own borders. How they must laugh out loud at stupid Europeans. These carpet baggers are out to poison us all. The bloated US citizens are this way as a result of GM products interfering with the function of their liver. And just the way they knew about the terrible side effects on children through the effects of the MMR jab, they also know about this condition caused by tampering with the natural produce of the planet.
Achieving a progressive future for Greece depends on some changes:
1-Greeks have to be realistic about the lack of efficient management, so one of the most essential steps is to invest on correction and upgrading the management of human and non-human resources.
2-To be realistic about the valuble resources such as enviroment, agreeculture, fishery, tourism, and native crafts.In order to have a sustainable and increasing wealth they should invest even more on such cases with the help of sciences and modern technology.
3-The future of every nation depends on how much they invest on their younger generation concerning. Education specialy at the elementary levels and then higher levels must be taken very seriously so children will grow with progressive vision and learn how to put their knowledge into making thoes resources even better ( enviroment, agreeculture, fishery, tourism, and native crafts).
4-We can write a lot about what should and shouldn,t Greece do..shall Greece remain in the European union or else ?..any of these decisions must lead this country into a more constructive society and to begin with is to make this country atractive enough for everyone specialy for the migrated Greeks with high education to come back to Greece and help in making it better
Very good comment Carlos. That is the answer. If Greece wants-which it doesn’t-it can do like you and your figures were nit cooked like Greece’s. We just do not trust Greece, so out if you do not want austerity and remedies
Yes! Not only Greece has problem with huge dept but also other countries.
Bottom line,we dont care what you think.EU has been governing Greece for last 5 years,it fucked up…..now we will do what its good for our country and our country ONLY.Accept it or not,it matters not.
I remember in Greece 1mln people don’t receive pay. They lost 25% pourcent of their gross domestic product.
K????, ?? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ????????? ??? ACTION24. ?????? ????? ?? ???????????? ?? ???????????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???, ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???. ?????? ?? ???????????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ??????? ??? ???????????? ??? ????????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????????. ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ?????. ?? ???????????? ?????? ?? ?????????????????? ?? ??? ???? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ? ???? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??? ???. ?? ???????? ?????? ???? ????????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ????? ? ???? ???.?? ?? ????????? ??? ???????, ??? ????????????? ?????????????? ???. ?? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??????????? ?????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ???????? ???. ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ……..
The so called “bailout” was meant to save the banks not the Greeks. The debt was transferred from lenders (bankers) operating in Greece to the masses + interest, with the complicity of neoliberal politicians, of course. The whole “Sovereign debt crisis” was about that. That’s an epic fail of the “Financial markets should be left to regulate themselves” believers.
ask german merkel.
Greece, the British Empire and Hungary should be fired
No, Greece should not try to renegotiate its bailout conditions. Greece should try to pay with this low 0,05 interest in longer terms. Greece should change economic policy, so as to increase National Gross Product.
Greece dept at 115% and 9.5% unemployed was not vial, why at 175% with unemployed 27% (official) is?
Only the banks where saved, by nationalizing the money they gave.
EU officials aren’t giving their support to all the political corrupted parties that are responsible for this? oh i forget they are EU brother parties
Ok DE, so lets just stick to “GREXITOLOGY”!
Suddenly a new Greek party? The new, old corrupt- now ‘reformist’ George Papandreou- a US, EU & NWO agent provocateur to promote “ordo ab chao”- or from one chaos into the next one?
Joseph de Maistre: “Every nation has the government it deserves.” So let’s wait & see how the Greek VOLK will act on the 25 January 2015 & start or stop the ball rolling?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2015/01/greece-george-papandreou-new-party-2015146210586284.html
maybe.
LOL How can this be a dilemma at all?!!
they are allowed to TRY :-) Jus hope that the citizens of Greece will vote for a government that really can represent them
Yes they should.It is time to wake up and try to understand that the EU is made up by 27 countries and that Brussels is not in Germany.
@Pedro Vicente
Brussels may not be in Germany, but take a look at some pre-EU ideas from the EU “Founding Fuhrers”…
http://www.eu-facts.org/en/background/dark_roots_europe_lecture.html
Can you explain to me why greece must negotiate its debts while germany and its ww2 allies just doesn pay their dept to greece?
I have an idea. Greece will pay its debts to all but Germany and its ww2 allies.
WW2 German debts didn’t seem to be a problem when Greece joined the EU back in the 80s, neither while Greece was receiving EU funds for 3 decades. How come now it can be an issue? Now it’s useful? Sorry! Sounds like I’m negotiating with a gypsy. Try harder please….
Carlos you are mistaken once again my friend, Greece has been demanding it’s WW2 debts from Gemany from shortly after WW2. The reason why you don’t hear about it wherever you are is because in general you will only hear what they want you to hear.
@Carlos Miranda
Hmmm, your last comment sounds a bit RACIST!
So in what way are Gypsy negotiating skills different to those of other people, Carlos?
I agree with you !!!
If Greece goes out euro, who is next?
Portugal, I think.
Here is a BBC2 documentary that tells you all you need to know about the stinkers who have impoverished us all
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04xw2x8/the-superrich-and-us-episode-1
Enjoy!
?? ?????? ???? ????? ????????? ?? ???????????? ??????? ???……….
Greek government has to spend no more than it can get from taxes. If it manages to do so, there is no need for renegotiation.
All the other countries except for Greece and Italy made no progress, so no renegotiation, Spain, Ireland, Portugal all made reforms and progress but we do not trust Greece, the EU is prepared for a Greece exit, so attention for your demands
It is not a matter of trust. Things are more complicated than are shown to us. Many economists have proved that austerity mearures included in memorandum where bulit on wrong bases and their purpose was to save banks, not countries, not people. So, we also do not trust EU mechanisms that impose such measures. A change in Greece could lead to better negotiating terms for public debts and concequently to better living conditions for all of us (European citizens).
???? ????????
As a portuguese, I really feel sorry for the Greek people. I wish EU would truly be a place of solidarity instead of keeping Greece down with debt and austerity. Where are the Eurobonds? Why does the EU helps banks financially to buy public debt instead of buying it itself? Now Draghi wants to buy debt but only debt rated AAA to push investors to more risky debts but I really thik the ECB should buy the other debts or create a common debt. It’s time to clean the house once and for all instead of just going with the wind
@ Tarquin Farquhar
The industries refered to in your link are only “German” by name. As stock corporations anybody can buy its shares on the stock exchange. Statistics show that most of German corporations are predominantly owned by international investors (most of them probably from the Anglosphere).
Hence, I think it is wrong to accuse Germany for all kinds of EU ills. Contemporary Germany is not a fully sovereign state and its big corporations are significantly foreign owned.
@Bastian
1…Please don’t forget to factor in not just share ownership BUT applicable share voting rights. You also fail to acknowledge the affect of German unions and German governments on German corporations. My point still stands.
2…Please do NOT ‘put words onto my page’ – Germany has many great strengths and I consider Germany as one of the best countries in the world – far superior to ANY Latin nation and indeed MOST EU nations. That being said, Germany has significant issues – its traumatic history, its legal system, its back-seat control of the EU – these issues MUST be vocalised, discussed and addressed.
To make the long story sort. YES!!!
Renegotiation asap !
We should renegotiate the terms of the debt but a Grexit should be avoided.
Greece should renogotiate.
The debt should have been written down (“haircut”) from the beginning. This is the economically correct thing to do, as an irresponsible borrower goes hand in hand with an irresponsible lender, in this case mostly French and German banks. It is no coincidence that this was also the IMF’s suggestion.
Of course, given the circumstances, it is understandable that the rest of the EU rejected the haircut. Banks were fragile and every nation feared a banking system collapse.
But this rejection had the foreseeable outcome that banks offloaded whatever loans they had given to Greece to the official sector, i.e. the ECB, the IMF and the rest of the EU countries. That way, when the PSI happened, it had very limited effect.
So a course of action should be:
– OSI: the debt gets a haircut, enough to make it sustainable
– Communication: the citizens of the EU have to know that these money were a bailout of their own banks(*) at least as much as a bailout of Greece
– Reforms: make the haircut conditional to much needed reforms. Importantly, the reforms have to done before, not after, the haircut (otherwise they will not be done)
Greece should start changing… and Tsipras (the man on the photo) is the voice of “no changes” in Greece.
Greece should start changing… and Tsipras (the man on the photo) is the voice of “no changes” in Greece.
And Samaras is the man of ‘bailouts for the rich, favors for his rich friends and austerity for the poor’.
Δεν βοηθάτε την Ελλάδα με αυτό τον τρόπο. Στηρίξτε την συνολική προσπάθεια να τη σώσουμε! Ο Τσίπρας σηκώνει αυτή τη στιγμή στις πλάτες του τον Ελληνικό λαό και τις όποιες δυστυχίες αυτός ο λαός κουβαλάει, δεν είναι ένας άνθρωπος στη φωτογραφία, είμαστε όλοι εμείς που θέλουμε να σώσουμε τον τόπο. Η προσπάθεια είναι συλλογική και θα χρειαστεί στήριξη από τον καθένα μας, σε όποιο κόμμα και αν ανήκε πριν τις εκλογές………..
My vote would be no, they should not.
I believe they should renounce all debt held by foreign interests, drop the Euro, balance the budget and generally be a whole lot better off (which ironically would leave my country worse off in the short term).
Above all, such a move can be a catalyst for freedom as the whole house of cards (undemocratic EU/wealth-destroying Euro) could well be endangered.
And as for those who claim Greece would have trouble balancing its budget, didn’t IMF/ECB/EU propaganda claim they had a primary surplus already? That is a surplus without having to pay all that interest?
Why on earth do policies always have to benefit the rich (= keeping the Euro) instead of the middle class and the poor (= dumping the Euro)?
I wonder what scaremongering attempts will be made to get people to vote for Samaras, the guy who protected his rich friends from having to ‘suffer’ austerity and who loves Franco-German banks more than Greek people.
Come on Greece, strike a blow for freedom and democracy.
Yes, Greece should definitely try to renegotiate it’s bailout conditions and if possible write off this entire odious debt.
Another thread full of pissed off greek kids that don’t know how to write in english
?? ??? ????. ? ?? ???
grece government have a big problem with mind….Change Sometimes, don’t be ridiculous
Yes, it is the duty of every government to defend its people.
I believe that the crisis in Greece will be transported to nex year
@Joker Jokerov
What you say in this post of yours is true and so any government who is seen to not defend its people should be thrown out of office or jailed without trial. As there is no need for trial when what they have done to endanger us all is seen openly as traitorous. There can be no excuse.
Which means the EU and those who pass legislation both on the surface and beneath it should be jailed today for the acceptance of GM crops on European soil as legal. Juncker is a man who will take any bribe to pass any outrageous act. Could it be he is too drunk to know what he is doing? We jail drunks in the UK for far less, drunk driving as an example.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2909128/Frankenfoods-grown-Britain-year-EU-ruling-controversial-crops.html
NO! It will probably save us from the crisis. Human rights are more important than markets and it is about time that resources are used for people and for the environment, for that it is time for those with money to pay.
We need to start using what we have and produce to create a better condition to people and to the planet, and not use them to produce rich people!
I support Syriza against all pressure forms, like this post, let the Greeks vote in freedom!!!
Human rights’ issues should be in the centrer of our interest. You are right and we are greatful for your support!!
Bloody Syriza – no better at the end of the day than Golden Dawn. Petty nationalists that want to take their ball home.
If they vote to leave then the EU should shatter them!
in to political crisis fastforward. for the economical crisis, opinion, is fake. ?
no more fear anymore!
SYRIZA need to be given a chance, is to early to say something, let’s hope for better Greece and Europe.
Germany should remember it owes its prosperity to the London Debt Agreement of 1953, which restructured its un-payable postwar debt. The EU insistence on austerity is a vicious cycle that only creates more debt, and goes against the Union’s founding principle of Cohesion by exacerbating inequality. Hopefully the Greek elections will finally send the message that it is time to rethink the way we do business in Europe. The day democracy is perceived as a threat in the EU is the day we should all leave it.
It’s not the Greek elections that have plunged the Eurozone into crisis but the greedyness and moneyhunger that has pushed humanity, solidarity and freedom out of the European Union
Only if Frau Merkel and the Troika stay stubborn and do not renegotiate. The program that they imposed on the Greeks is not working, it just serves their interests. Only 10% of the billions that they took from the European tax payers have actually entered the Greek economy. The rest went back to the German, French, British, American, Greek, Swiss and whatever else bond holders in Greece’s banking system and in extend in the European banking system. In other words, the Troika has turned Greece in a money laundering machine, that steals money from the European tax payers and through Greece, it gives it to the European bankers, while also stealing Greek resources. Very few if the necessary reforms have happened in Greece. It has mostly been a sell out of its national wealth and a diminution of the living standards of the ordinary Greeks. 3,500 suicides later of ordinary Greek people, Greece is still unstable and there is no progress because simply, the plan was never to help Greece, rather to ensure the bond holders get their maximum return. And Frau Merkel and her ilk support this situation. I have never voted for her government. The German people did and I do not understand why I must suffer her policies. This is a serious democratic deficit, when an unelected leader by the rest of Europe, dictates the whole of the continent. The peripheral European economies must stand behind Greece and Syriza and turn the EU more equal and people oriented. This is our chance. It could be your country next!!
Besides, do we really know how much the EU is costing us?
The EU is worthless with worthless and corrupt politicians, corrupt both politically and morally. Do I think it is going to cause another EU crisis? Well what I hope is not for a crisis, but for the whole damned EU to fall apart. And all thanks to the politicians and their pro ekite big business governing. People have had enough of Merkel, Draghy, troika and the rest of you. Unfortunately they are going to vote the extremes. Far left communism, and those tired of immigrants will vot extreme right. And wait for the elections in Spain, with the fascist communist party Podemos. That is going to be fun, another civil war boiling as they are already warning that “the other side better fear us” some democracy. All BS from top to bottom.
NO it will save us from throwing more money down the drain!
Crisis has never left us
Hopefully the Greeks will vote for a stabile government so it will get them back up, the EU stronger and that they will need less money to pay it back a while later.
yes. Hungary, Greece and the British Empire should be kicked out
@Debating Europe your question itself is misleading and wrong. How dare you to continue this campaign of fear? Shame on you!
And FYI Greece WILL NOT leave the EU no matter what the government is. We only ought to demand to live in decency, simple as that
Austerity is plunging Eurozone in eternal crisis and stagnation. The question is: can this be reverted by SYRIZA’s victory? If it is so, we should hope so. Otherwise, we can just relax and enjoy our creeping poverty and unemployment.
No, it will be the beginning of the end of the austerity insanity. Even Merkel is smart enough to know that if she doesn’t want to deal with Syriza, podemos in Spain is coming to power later this year and that is no longer a manageable problem. it is fortuitous that quantitative easing is also starting by the ECB in March, so they should be turning a page at the same time.
“Germany” refuses to even talk about debt relief, while no other country in Eurpe has had more debt relief than Germany, that behavior is whats wrong with the EU and if that bad behavior continues, forget “crisis” the EU wont exist in a couple years. http://www.dw.de/german-economic-miracle-thanks-to-debt-relief/a-16630511
Wait and see.
I don’t know. That depends from other factors beyond Greece.
But It certainly will bring back… hope to Europe!
of course NOT, maybe it makes EU change his direction, which, by the way, in my opinion is wrong. Lack of democracy and economic logic
The only fact that you ask it, means that in eurozone there’s not a real democracy but a Marketocraxy.
I hate EU, and it’s your fault.
easy: NO
That depends from other factors beyond Greece.
But It certainly will bring back… hope to Europe!
And if they do than what? Free elections and Democracy are far more important than this euronazism project of yours. May the euro burns in hell and all its supporters too.
Elections in Greece may bring back crisis in Eurozone.
Whatever it brings it back or not, the crisis roots are still there:
A currency needs more than a monetary policy to run properly, it needs fiscal, social and economic policy.
If not, a common currency can only boost inequalities between nations.
Where there are more difficulties, it brings more difficulties because it repulses investors.
Where there is less, it brings more because it makes investments more attractive.
Weak become weaker, strong become stronger.
When there are several different policies within nations, the only way to prevent from this vicious circle is devaluation. With a common currency there is no alternative to united monetary, fiscal, social and economic policy.
The roots of euro crisis is lack of federalism.
We need to have a federal monetary, fiscal, social and economic policy for eurozone… we only have monetary policy, this is pure nonsense.
Whatever it comes again from Greece or not, there will be a new euro crisis if we do not federate those four policies.
The responsibility is not on Greece (the country where people works more than everywhere in Europe 2250 hours a year compared do 1414 in Germany), where there is the fewest social protection and one of the highest tax-rates.
We can not say Greeks didn’t make enough efforts to be competitive : It has done much more than any other people !
Those efforts contributed a lot to help making the situation harder for Greece (and easier for north European countries)… and delay the moment the “big crisis” will make it impossible to continue as this was only a Greek problem, not a European problem.
The problem is European, the solution is European.
Why would it bring Europe to a new crisis?
Or is this question one of those that hopes to become a self fulfilling profecy? And if so, who would be the beneficiaries of such profecy? The people? Or just a bunch of speculators who are getting ready to sell short?
I do not think these leading questions are what a new Europe should be about.
Greek elections is a democratic act and stability factor.Eurozone crisis is the result of its organs actions.
Do the right thing Greece, vote out! Once you lead the way, others will see how much better off they can be and will follow suit.
!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to applaud Nando Aikos’ comment. Totally agree. I have to partly agree, with a small, but significant correction, the comment of ???????? ?????????? – The Eurozone prolonged crisis is the result of its organs’ INactions. The leading questions are nauseating anglofile “we hate not being in a leadership position in Europe, so we take cheap potshots at the Eurozone whenever we can” kind of sentiment.
There is no crisis in Europe. This is as good as it gets. It will never become better, UNLESS we make the structural changes that ECB’s Draghi says are necessary, and all politicians pay lip service to, but then they go back to not doing the hard work implied.
Too many syrizodogs in here. Only Vasilis Leventis and Enosi Kentroon you ex PASOK voters!
They should had thought about it before last month’s Troykas black mailing to the former Greek government about taking new mezours of 10billions euros at a time that the growth just had started and the economy was showing surplus but the people of the country’s had reached there limits by the over taxation and the high unemployment. ..
i hope so
The European s overthrow the prowestern Greek government of p.Sampras and now they have to face the anger of the people. ….
Giampaolo Conte
highly unlikely
If UE needs that in every single country people votes the same option everytime to avoid “the plunge”,,, then I think we have a contradiction between democracy and UE
They need the EU, what will they do on their own? Draghi’s QE a bit late though it has to be a last resort, still need restructuring for Greece, the thrifter country
Yes. Beware, be ready for it. After Syriza arrives in power churches will be burnt, coffee and alcohol will be forbidden, comunism stablished and Justin Bieber CDs distroyed in the main squares of Athens.
No. Tsipras and Syrizia do not have enough power to do it and they do not have enough guts too. They will moderate thir speech and policy and finally they will be good guys. Greece needs money and the unique lender is the EU.
.
Of course it will, the ECB’s reluctant actions are far to little & far to late.
The world & his dog told Europe the idea of matching Spain, Italy, Greece,France, etc with Germany was a stupid idea but they did it anyway.
The rest of the world recovers but the Eurozone still sinks but the pro EU fanatics will never admit they were wrong, only greater integration matters and to hell with the people.
I can’t wait for the outcry from the German taxpayer when they realise they are footing the bill for this lunacy.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-elections-syriza-party-tops-polls-raising-fears-that-a-win-will-lead-to-devastating-european-exit-9996400.html
No. But it surely is going to spice things up!
Yes hopefully
.
The word ‘Eurozone’ is just the new way of saying ‘Crisis’..
As in ‘I’m having a personal Eurozone’ or ‘having a Eurozone of Conscience ‘ or ‘Its a environmental Eurozone’.
Stay Cool & Elect
All the countries of South Europe have seen their economies collapse after the market crises and. the help of troika not only did not solve their problems but increased the debt, the unemployment, and finished with the dbil economies. The Greenpeace voters have the big responsability to lead the change for an Europe of the poeples and not of the markets.
!!!.. has ever eurozone overcome its deficits ? The hot meatball has been given to southern member states.
the tail does not move the dog
But a match can start the fire and burn whatever old and rotten………………….
This is also another option of the greek elections for the European dream… https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10384677_444750442340348_611295863600426608_n.jpg?oh=bec91d10a8b59ce1fc2e0ed3d3c50a5d&oe=552FA6DD&__gda__=1428908692_90fb6c6e9d26216368995041171dd6f5
Originalno.
it’s the Greek Tragedy. It will have to leave the Euro one day.
Eurozone is in crisis because of the Russian sanctions. Fools
Let me put the question differently “Did the eurozone help Greece to prosper?” The answer is NO. The assets of the Greek people are evaluated and it seems like they have actually declined.
Lets hope the Greek voters will not punish themselves (along with the rest of us)!
And Europe this Startled by this result?
After years of austerity led by Socialists and Social Democrats governments that only led to more austerity, the only option left to the people was virar- to the extreme, but this was predictable.
And if you look well in the percentage of Greeks who wanted to vote for Syriza before Angela Merkel and Christine Lagarde come try to boycott the democratic system Greek, and this percentage after this act will notice that this act only increased the number of voters in SYRIZA, I hope that in the futoro “We can” win in Spain, Marie Le Pen win in France, as this was the way to years of austerity, the Socialists and Social Democrats in Europe should be proud of their work.
now complain that?
Greek things do very little in EU things.u know that.Greece wasn’t the cause in the first place.u also know that.in a bad era someone has to pay.usually the weakest.but if we want something to change it has to be through elections.and i am sure u don’t know that.
Anything to learn from Iceland maybe?
There is: 1) The divided Europe of the far right eurosceptics.
2) The Europe of the bankers, bureaucrats and elitists.
3) And the Europe of its old basic principles and of the new hope. The Europe of its people.
WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?
to vote ΣΥΡΙΖΑ or not to vote ΣΥΡΙΖΑ? That’s the question…
I dont understand the question. Do you think a Greek democratic parliament can influence the economics of eurozone? jajajajajaj… but maybe the contrary is right.. the economy of the eurozone can influence the democratic parliament of greece…. this is what you call crisis? I think it is not,.. it is simply an abuse.
on the other hand this question reflects a lot of unconfidence against the people, the voters… democracy yes but only if you vote us!… this are simply democratic covards.
Of course not … we have professional people at the helm of the European institutions who are paid thousands to prevent such catastrophic events… not that they’ve done a very good job till now but hey hope is last to die, no?
Will Mrs. MERKEL finally realize that austerity is a no win for the common people?
Greek elections are hope.for many of us. At least those of us who worked hardly for last 25 years and now have to cope with cinditions to survive and dream to live our potentials.
Greek people desserve rest from the pressure on them and start work for their development not.for greedy banks and other financial institutions. If Greece will succeed in inovating new macro economic model and business models more friendly to people and return money that their rich privileged levels of society hid from taxes in tax oasis and restart new economy stopping exhausting people and country there is hope for us. Their success will be role model for more sustainable societies…process can not be stopped any more. Changes has started long ago. The greedy system and non responsive EU bureaucracy has forced Greece long ago. They should think about fear when peoplemhad no hope and had to loose dignity and sense of the home. We have to all whish best for Greece and to succeed in their efforts to build new development cycle and sustainable economy.
…it will refresh de debate…
I only hope, the Greek elections starts a new way of dealing and negotiating. Otherwise, may be better all Southern countries leave the EU. When we compare the statistics before the EU and particularly before the Euro, we see the Southern countries only lost. An example: before the EU, industry was 40% of Portugal GDP. Now is only 13%. The same in Greece: before was 16%, now is only 4%. Germans told them to invest on tourism and forget about industry. We see now the result.
The eurozone will die just a question of time doesn’t matter the elections in Greece
I analyze your comments friends our problem comes from the European crisis Europe past has states with its Democratic systems full health but because there was inteligent policians Greece´s problem is for all citizens of Europe the problem is not the debt but its impact on loan rates these last latther are affected by policy uncertainty is why countries like America and other more development countries of the world are able to finance their debts with many rates lower Greece and the market takes over and never be the boss of the political uncertainty and this requires that the markets are not nervous
eurozone is a mirage to the clever people…… Only that stupid eurocrats be live on that…… Let the Greek people chose on freedom their new way…… no more blackmail from the Bruxelles Eurocrats
Probably. But lets hope they re not that powerful
Eurozone=crisis…..it does not care about its citizens. A true europe is for european’s well being and hope for a better future with better sharing of opportunities and economical justice.Financial and political greed should be replaced by a more human approach to all the persons in the european union.
euroslavery
Of course. But it will restart Europe
To Alexis Tsipras and Syriza, the Guardian salutes you. And so do I.
Best wishes for tomorrow.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/23/greece-solidarity-movement-cooperatives-syriza
Are Americans allowed in this debate?
Only if they behave themselves!
If Merkel and co wish to play the game they are, then yes .. Greece does not want a “confrontation” it wants a life line, the same life line others were given when THEY asked for help not so long ago, Merkel has a short memory, not to mention the Greeces Gold reserves that were looted in WW2 and the forced debts at gun point it was forced to sign over for Germany, its called give and take, or diplomacy where ADULTS sit down and discuss whats best for the GROUP and not just one party. http://www.dw.de/german-economic-miracle-thanks-to-debt-relief/a-16630511
What do you know about this problem? There are so many people with tough situations. Nobody,but nobody does anything..
Problema din Romania este una veche,din 2008,existind si solutii elaborate din acea vreme,dar bancilor le-a convenit tacerea,care nu este intotdeauna buna,mai ales ca acum au de suferit mai multe tari.Legislatia europeana protejeaza clientii bancilor cu astfel de credite din toate tarile UE,numai ca la noi coruptia bancara(talibanii financiari)se comporta nebuneste si iresponsabil.Dar…asteptam Louxembourgul,pentru ca se va cere tuturor tarilor UE,alinierea la legislatie europeana.Si…dupa noi,potopul!
I love Greece and Greeks, but, after using dome benefits, is dimply not to recognize this, and to spread the internal crisis out. The Greeks are in front of an crucial decision, and I’m sure they’ll take the exam
Not really.I think that Greece cannot blackmail EU any more.The only way for my country is to adapt to reality.We have to make our own living, not live at the expense of others.
Refreshing to see some sensibility and sense of responsibility present in Greece.
No it will just restart Europe back to Delors ideals.
Europe is failing as a Union in my eyes…the debt is there even for more powerful countries such as Italy, France, Spain and Germany…The system is faulty… The rich get richer and the poor get poorer…plus…what is the point of using the euro as the main currency, if people suffer and can not use it to maintain a basic, dignified standard of living…
WHY elections is a “threat” to Europe? Where is democracy??? Is this the Europe we have dreamed of?
To live in democracy need to do change!
The probable upcoming of syriza in power, is the convenient alibi for the other governments to disengage theme selves from the austerity measures and the adjustment program imposed on Greece (and elsewhere) with out having to admit the actual failure of their choices. It seems that a new concept is rising in the EU to face the economic problems not with austerity and domestic devaluation but with growth, social concern and investments. Similar model to the one the USA implemented successfully. Perhaps it has become a realization that stabilizing the euro-zone needs a much more aggressive approach in economical and political terms. The recent quantitative easing program announced by the European Central Bank is in that direction. Possibly even more will follow, and what a better place to start testing this concept than Greece and through syriza. A fresh political party where its radicalism meets a rather pro Keynesian economic ideology and may prove to achieve even more under this new circumstances than the opponent conservative party which was in power for the last years.
No.
Yes
No, Alexis Tsipras will have to find compromises and he is by the way not willing to leave EU because most Greek don’t want to.
Freedom!
I would say Yes
They should exit
They should exit
Didn’t you hear or read what he said before asking the question?
Didn’t you hear or read what he said before asking the question?
Freedom ????????…
Freedom ????????…
game is over, or europe will negotiate greek bailout or euro caput
game is over, or europe will negotiate greek bailout or euro caput
Greece should leave the fuxxin euro. Now.
Greece should leave the fuxxin euro. Now.
Big
Nobody wants to leave the EU. All the southern countries want to build a EU of the peoples that live here and not a EU of the markets.
Big
Nobody wants to leave the EU. All the southern countries want to build a EU of the peoples that live here and not a EU of the markets.
I do not see why they shouldn’t renegotiate. However, this does not mean they will have to leave.
I do not see why they shouldn’t renegotiate. However, this does not mean they will have to leave.
this kind of EU is a real danger for people and peace! freedom and justice for greek people!
EU is a cancer of Europe!
EU is a cancer of Europe!
The austerity measures imposed on the Greek people to pay off the impossible debt- did not take the country any steps forward.
With Greece bent over backwards to pay off the debt and interests- is in no way helping the Euro currency or the Eurozone altogether.
Greece should be able to renegotiate, find a middle ground to settle its dues and revive its own economy. It is the only way that can see the Greek people living with dignity and rendering benefit to the rest of Europe.
-Greece should renegotiate the bailout conditions, and as foreseen launch the welfare package and demand write-off part of its debt or restructure it. The ECB quantitative easing should also help, since the most of recent GDP growth in Greece is hopefully not due to bailout austerity conditions, which just harm economy, but due to US FED quantitative easing of 2009-2014, as business and people got some access to US banks loans.
Yes tsipras doesn t want to exit, but also doean t want to pay his country’s debts..not paying debts is the contrary of the spirit of eurozone that must be consodered worldwide a safe place for investments
If only
What you really mean is… should Greece try to renegotiate the conditions that came of from the German and French banks bailout?
all they want is
– write off the debt
– stay in euro
– continue stealing others money, and enjoy it.
this is the culture
Greek government doesn’t steel anyone’s money.
It borrows then and with a high rate!
Austerity kills democracy…
I laugh reading some comments about Greece that should leave euro, coming from some mafia-ruled, 150? average wage countries. Not to be misunderstood, I totally accept such comments (and maybe agree) from countries with minimum corruption, high GDP, economic stability etc…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30975437
Yes!!! If the conditions will not change, they could leave!!
They shouldn’t be thrown out from eurozone but they shouldn’t be sustained anymore either. They should work hard and pay their taxes and debts.
No Because Merkel knows she will be in a worse position if Podemos does this well in spain. Time for Berlin to learn a lesson in physics. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You serve people crap and force them to tell you it’s caviar, this is what happens 7 years later.
Yes!!!
Well Done Syriza!
Now the people are waiting for you to stand by your promises. Change is needed right across Europe and you are expected to lead that march. It is not daunting, they just want you to think it is.
As a further reminder.
https://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/04/18/support-european-lefts-manifesto/#.VMX0RS7_Fdc
Game is over, I believe people of Germany, France, Spain and Italy are tired of that game and won`t give money for free anymore. Soon we will see!
@Dani Alexandrov
In the main, Spain is NOT a net EU contributor – it has ALMOST exclusively been a net EU beggar nation.
Greece should be helped. But there does seem to be a lack of accountability for the Greeks on this site for the state that the country is in. And all the anti Germany feeling is quite frankly ludicrous. I am Irish and there is one difference to how we have dealt with our debt crisis. In Ireland we tend to blame ourselves for the issue. The opposite seems to be true of Greece. But in all honesty, in this interconnected world, I can’t see foreign investment flooding into Greece. The Greek country has alot of natural assets, it must make better use of them. One final thing, why is the Germans war debt a topic for conversation. Get over it.
Yes,Greece should to try to renegotiate the bailout conditions,because if Greece decide to leave the EU,this would be one of the greatest failures of the EU.
As a Greek citizen I confirm you that syriza and Alexis Tsipras are the leaders because they have promised to Greek people that their country will exit EU and the meters taken that have brought misery to Greeks
Renegotiating the modalities yes because otherwise Greece’s population will be pushed even deeper in misery, but the actual bailout conditions should be respected.
The “bail-out” created to pay market vultures private bond super profits with citizen s money.Greece has been destroyed from it without taking a cent.The tale is finished and catharsis will come to all involved in operation “raped maid” by former IMF president.
To pay money borrowed by the Greek government because it did not stick to the small-scale austerity measures as agreed at the time of joining the Eurozone plus the money that the Greek lost due to corruption and client-style politics while all the time wearing the label of Democracy…
in Greece almost the 50% of people employed in the public administration field have been fired, what does that mean? That they have been robbing their own country and now they’re trying to find a scapegoat, and that scapegoat is the EU. It’s corruption the real problem, as it is in my country. It’s not the EU…look at Germany, they’ve been destroyed and burnt to the soil twice, and twice they became the Country with the strongest economy in the EU
Greece as All the southern countries of Europe must renegotiate their debt or they will not survive this austerity programs.
This is going to be interesting. Either they change their radical views or I see the Troika bending over for them. If neither happens, Greece is going to suffer badly. This year we have elections in Spain, and are headed towards a government worst than Syriza, a radical communist party that totally clashes with actual EU laws, on everything from private property to eliminating Frontex and everything in between. Intolerant of anything that does not follow their views. A party where their base threatens the opponentsa. A party whos leader boasts about breaking his finger in a gang beting of another person, who he classifies as lower class then him, and this person sits in the EU parliament. And they are positioned as favorites to win the elections. There is no one more responsible for the growth of these parties than the actual EU and our local government for their lack of leadership and lack of finding solutions to the crisis. Bailing out banks, giving money to banks to buy state debt ( where the elite made billions) while leaving citizens behind. This is the reason I always say that the EU is worthless and should end.
It’s simple. If the EU objective is creating an European Federal State with each member Nation as part of it. Then the EU must be ready to step in and take over social/financial problems of each particular state member as they arise and, if possible, offer solutions.
If the EU objective isn’t creating an European Federal State, than it can negotiate or not with the government of a particular State and/or apply sanctions if that State doesn’t fulfill it’s commitments to the rest to the EU!
It must. No to wallstreet
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=853695421339713&set=a.165490340160228.30475.100000977895015&type=1&theater
European Uniun will fall….. because of Greece, Hungary …..
Because twice they erased their National Debt!!! Read some history…
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=853695421339713&set=a.165490340160228.30475.100000977895015&type=1&theater
In every (!) house there is a Chrysi Avgi! :o
Yes Greece new government should try renegotiates the bailout conditions and if Greece leave the euro zones it will be dangerous for the her economic
And also failure of European union
without a doubt they should, because the terms are unacceptable – and if the troika wants to play games, then my advise is default …
The people of Europe must understand that, enslaving other countries with economic or violent measures just because the apparent conquerors wanted to play a game and of course cover their economic “ass” holes, then fighting back these ridiculous barbarians is just a normal thing. Did you even realize that, people die for what? Money..This is not a monetary, exchange or even a rewarding policy, it’s a nightmare. Most people in the North can’t realize what’s going on in the South because they enjoy (and this is how is should be of course) a social cohesion, a mutual sympathy if you like, peace and so on. What is the root of the problem you may ask? Well you gotta search deep inside in your heads and your souls.
With all the love and respect from the first European Country, Greece.
I’ve had enough of Greeks playing the victim, Kosta. When is Greece going to grow up?
TODAY IN GREECE WE HAVE COALITION OF SYRIZA (LINKE) WITH THE RECHTRADIKALE PARTY OF INDEPENDENT GREEKS…FIASCO
Totally agree with this comment but also…the true colours of Mr Tsipras. Look into it and you will se what I mean…
renegotiate but not pay all.
Should they? Yes they should! It is their country. It is their right. Hopefully they will get the previous idiots to pay for the rest.
yes, of course, the country cannot move forward with this crippling debt..pay, of course, but with realistic means…
Europe should be re-build and burocrats will fall down.
Where has all the money gone Long time passing? Where has all the money gone Long time ago? Where has all the money gone Greeks (?) picked it everywhere. When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYii6nxhvUk
Germany must pay 600 billion euros owned to Greece for WWII LOANS AND REPERATIONS according international law instead of giving orders without any authorization.
Dear Debating Europe, why do you keep asking the same question again and again? Haven’t you get enough answers???
You’ll force me to answer you, as Pablo Iglesias leader of PODEMOS did to Rajoy: “…tic-tac, tic-tac, tic-tac,…” ;)
Nobody forces the government to borrow any money. Its problem is that it still needs to borrow money but it can’t do it at the capital markets. Of course it can stop borrow money right away but then it will have a real austerity problem, like Romania in the 1980’s.
And please, put the right order!!!
I never thought you’ll use the same methods as the greek Media!
The KKE 5,5%(communist party) is ahead from PASOK, as it is ANEL too, (4.8% a right party which will support a SYRIZA government)! A party that you don’t even show it!!! WHY IS THAT???
EU must manage with whatever be the government in a EU country. Than must do as it will do with other country. Never in favor of one country against other.
yes. A growth crisis
Engenders change the world, so Alexis Tsipras good luck! I believe you can do it!
Greece owes Europe money to the tax payers of other countries and they have to pay it back. That is how a loan works. Period. This is not a discusision point. If you think that it is then try calling your own bank and having this discussion about reducing your mortgage.
@Eamonn:
So, if you had taken a loan from a bank of say a million Euro, and after your accountant went thorough you paper work you realised the same bank you had borrowed from had not paid you 2 million Euro that they ‘forgot’ they owed you. Would you continue to pay that same bank back for the loan you had erroneously taken out? ~Especially after finding they were robbing you via massive interest rates thereby increasing your debt to them twofold, making it three million you owed to them instead of the original one million? Only a complete idiot would do that. And the Greeks are not idiots.
NO
It must. It’s what they were elected to do. But I am sad to say syriza first move is a disappointment. Making a coalition with a right wing xenophobic party instead of the communists is baffling given their ideological stances.
takling a xenophobic very right-wing party on board ? not a good start..
Was that the quetion or is it about the debt?
the question is tasty and disrespectful: “should?” – would? one letter that makes a big difference. think twice before putting questions like this, please.
Dear Jokera Jokerov, above is the way you see it.
Below is the way… I see it (or feel it perhaps) ;)
You should know by now, that it was a bailout for Euro, Eurozone and german-french banks but certainly not for Greece!!!…… https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p180x540/10945766_10204694423813106_8394316882603322160_n.jpg?oh=55f7af0bdaa4decf374c8a9cbdb0242a&oe=55577812&__gda__=1431964420_1564da310197858b371ea7087ef37fdc
I thought the debate was about, whether Greece should try to renegotiate its bailout conditions. But from what it seems like, most of the people tend to answer on whether the country should leave the EU or the Eurozone…And honestly it is just sad …. Instead of getting closer and sticking together in hard times like this one, the countries members of the EU are fighting on who’s to stay in the group and who’s not. Get yourselves together and show for once that we ARE united after all. We all belong in the same team, don’t we… ?
Greece is Greece, forever better than us, Bulgarians.
I will say it like this : If they renegotiate Greece’s debt , the Eu should consider a huge delete on ALL its countries’ debts. A complete debt moratorium for everyone. Shouldn’t that be faster and better? They should find a ” personalised” model for every country. They could do it, but they can’t out of mere personal interest, power and greed.
Should Greece try to renegotiate its bailout conditions?
1. If you believe in DEMOCRACY, the above is out of the question. The newly elected government has been elected on the basis that the austerity imposed by the “bailout Memoranda I & II” be scraped and negotiation on zero basis start.
2. Regardless of you being democrat or totalitarian/facist, there is a question of legitimacy especially regarding the 1st bailout agreement (Memorandum I). According to article 28 of the Hellenic Constitution, international Agreements that transfer national jurisdiction/power to international institutions need to be approved by the Parliament with extended majority (3/5 => 180 votes). The first bailout agreement gothered only 172 votes out of 300. Therefore, the whole “rescue [of German and French banks via Greece] programme” lacks constitutional legitimacy at home (now it lost democratic legitimacy as well)
Keeping in mind the above, one must consider in cold blood the following economic reality:
a) Germany benefits from the common market and currency as net exporter
b) German economic surplus leads the countries of the periphery to equally riding debt
c) enslaving the periphery via debt is the worst path for both Germany and the PIGS
d) economies in depression can neither recover nor pay back their debts
e) political overturn in the periphery will no doubt hit the centre sooner or later
f) societies in depression turn violent against the “enemy” (now the German-led bureaucracy in Brussels that deprives at least the citizens of the Hellenic Republic of basic human rights, freedom of choice, private property et.al.)
Friendly advice to Gauleiter Merkel: negotiate before it is too late for your country and Europe.
PS The first ceremonial gesture of newly elected Greek PM Alexis Tsipras was to visit Kaisariani (suburb of Athens) where the German occupation army executed almost daily Greek civilians as reprisal to losses in battles with the Greek partisans (the bloodiest in May 1, 1944 – 200 two hundred hostages). The question of German WW II reparations to Greece (7,1bn USD – 1938 prices) is on the table as well as the ones regarding the Occupation Loans from the Bank of Greece (5.6mn golden GBP, 1942) and the compensation to the victims of German brutality during occupation (6/4/1941-9/5/1945). Greece is not part of the Reunification Agreement and does not write off the above German debt.-
Here is a loan Greek voice of why he voted for Syriza.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/26/greece-dignity-why-i-voted-for-syriza-alex-andreou
It touches on so many issues that relate to us all.
I think they should ask, together with other countries, for a fair Europe. An Europe without Tax Havens. As a Portuguese, I would like to underline the undermining of the portuguese economy by the politics that lead, for example, to Netherlands to have special agreements with the major portuguese companies to have their financial office in there. ALL THE COMPANIES QUOTED IN THE PSI20, THE MAIN PORTUGUESE INDEX, HAVE THEIR FINANCIAL OFFICES IN THE NETHERLANDS. The same with LUXEMBURG and THE BANKS.
It’s not like people don’t work in here. In fact we work a lot. The problem is that there is a residual tax that year after year goes away form the country. The solution is not to tax the workers even more. The solution is to tax the major corporations that work here as the smaller companies are taxed.
There are too many holes in the system, and I hope Greece is the first warning.
If there is not solution for this problem, you should understand that there are not many options to pay the debt unless people are squeezed as they are now n some countries in Europe.
it happens that politicians and bankers that generate the debt work for the same companies (at least when politicians retire in spain is clear) so of course we have to renegotiate the debt, not only greece but also spain, ireland, italy etc…
and the problem is not the debt, but the interest rate.. the debt is basically with the ECB (nobody) so at the end, this money is not from our grandparents… but the bussiness is the interest rate that take the intermediates… so sayin 1% of interes rate for 10 years would solve the situation of grece or spain and return the credit to small companies and reactivate the economy…
???????????????;
It’s a must
Must negociate, debt relief within reasonable limits to shore up the stability of financial system
Didn’t Germany do the same exactly 60 years ago?
But certainly why the E.U. should negotiate only for Greece than? What about Spain, Ireland, Poland and others who have great debts? The fair commitment would be renegotiating for all E.U. member states to have longer terms and less to pay! Otherwise it won
Ofcourse the bail out was unfair and very strict. Germany owns money to Greece fron 2nd world war dont forget that……
They should have the same opertuneties as those Banks had. The banks are mutch worse than them anyway
We in Eu should not pay anything to us that we owe until we retch the amount that we last until their illegal affers on house mortgages that they made
Quello che sicuro che ci prover; e che, intanto, ha buttato via la muffa.
Dear Mr Sotirelis, I do not give a damn shit. It`s your country, You Greeks decide what to do with it. And you have my utmost support when decide to live the eurozone. I support UKIP, Niogel Farage and his views on the Greek solution. Kalimera! :D
Problemet varfr det blev som det nu r i Grekland r att precis varenda invnare smet undan skatt Och kunde kpa sig ett jobb i sjukhus m.m. Fr att komma t en pension vid 55 rs lder Det pgick i typ 30 r och alla sket i det Men verkligheten kom och d gick det t helvetet med landet Tycker inte synd om dom Fr dom valde fel vg
Most of European citizens buy easily whatever the Media sell to them.
Here’s a graphic of OECD with the total debt of several countries on 2011.
As you can see the debt of Greece is the smallest, even from Germany, 2 years after the crisis (imagine before)!!!
If someone claims that the debt that counts is only the government debt, then he can explain why Spain and Portugal with less government debt than Germany got into bailout programs!
In addition is interesting the Irish graph and the fairytale about its program succes!
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS???…… https://scontent-b-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10934002_10204702685739649_1034708391630757258_n.jpg?oh=8ed4a5d44b10215f8d5a19ffc8d2ac2e&oe=5553AD52
That s rich. First pay than bailout.
Greece should have left the euro as soon as it realised it could not function under the one currency system . Political ideology got in the way of common sense and fiscal responsibility . Still the past is past , no point in renegotiating a debt that cannot be paid . Default , return to the Drachma and rebuild the economy .
Good Luck .
Much the same was said by the Nobel prize winner here.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102367704
It is now obvious now, that the actual European policy did not work. In all countries where it has been applied, the GDP reduced, the unemployment had grown, the investments stagnated or simply stop and countries got a debt impossible to pay. Just compare the measures the USA had taken which puts the country developing with more than 4%, and compare with the stagflation in Europe. We need a completely different policy, a new kind of Plan Marshall.
The intellectual poverty of the austerity policies in the EZ lie not in the rather obvious policy tool itself but in the TOTAL MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE GLOBAL (DEFLATIONARY) CONTEXT after the outburst of the Great Financial Crisis (GFC), first in the USA, then in Europe. Only Canada was able to escape the bad impact of the GFC due to its superior macro-prodential regulation and not falling for the intellectually very weak case for austerity, under the global circumstances.
European Union (and the Euro) are a clubs that the big countries (mostly Germany) bully and threaten the suffocate the smaller ones to submission to a disastrous lunacy that is austerity.
There is no European Union. There is only Germany with some vessel states and some other small defenceless countries.
Europe is a farce.