Last year, European states launched a fund to support pro-democracy groups in the former Soviet bloc, North Africa and the Middle East. The European Endowment for Democracy (EED) is a joint initiative between the European Commission and a group of EU Member States (plus Switzerland), providing “flexible, non-bureaucratic” financing for “those in the field [who are] striving for democracy” (including civil society groups, NGOs and political movements).
The helpful video below (from the EED website) provides an overview:
But should European states really be funding pro-democracy groups in repressive regimes? Last month, our partners at the Czech Debate Society hosted the 2014 Heart of Europe Debating Tournament, and this was exactly the issue they tackled. The motion for the grand final of the tournament, between teams from South Africa and Canada, was:
This house believes that the EU should offer tangible support to pro-EU movements in Eastern Europe and post-Soviet states.
Debating Europe supports tournaments such as this because they help young people to learn how to construct arguments and debate publicly, so we thought we would cover the final debate of the tournament. You can see the full video of the grand final at the bottom of the post, but we’ve highlighted some of the main arguments below.
Both teams agreed that EU relations with Russia were the key issue. The team in favour of the proposition argued that the populations of countries like Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia want closer relations with the EU, but that Russia was economically manipulating their governments to prevent this. The team argued that they don’t think all these countries should necessarily join the EU, but that it can’t be a bad thing to provide more information to combat anti-EU propaganda and to give both sides of the story so people can make a more informed decision.
The team of students arguing against the proposition felt that the EU should look out for its own people first and not waste money on unnecessary and ineffective initiatives. They also argued that countries shouldn’t be encouraged to choose between Russia and the EU, as this will only antagonise Russia. Plus, it would be wrong to use former Soviet countries as proxies in a wider clash of ideologies.
The supporting team countered by arguing it’s not a waste of money to support ideals of freedom, liberty and democracy. They also argued that funding pro-democracy movements would bring greater prosperity and stability to Europe’s neighbourhood, and would help contain an aggressive and dangerous Russia. By supporting pro-democracy movements, they argued that this would gradually undermine support for Russia in the region and Russia would become progressively weaker.
This didn’t impress the team arguing against the proposition, who countered that these countries were not being systematically oppressed by Russia, but that the overall political situation does get worse in these countries when the EU plays geopolitics and antagonises Russia by funding pro-EU groups.
You can watch the full debate below:
Does giving funding to pro-democracy movements in former Soviet countries bring greater prosperity and stability to Europe’s neighbourhood? Or does it only antagonise Russia and risk provoking conflict and civil strife? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.
106 comments Post a commentcomment
Europe should stop destabilizing former soviet countries as it did in Ukraine!
Ukraine chose herself to lean towards the EU.
It is not our fault the FASCIST Putler won’t let them.
Europe should help own people and not destabilize the world. It is now a semi-fascist organization.
The EU only helps those that already are fighting for democracy from their own initiative. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Europe must take responsibility and support democracy all over the world. Democracy is everybodys business everywhere.
Yes, in particular neo-Nazi ones.:)
If it starts to be uncomfortable for Russia, it means were finally achieving something and Russia can shove it… all it ever did was steal from all the so called soviet countries!
It’s naive to think that Russia doesn’t provide material support for groups and governments that further its own interest. There is nothing wrong with the EU doing likewise.
Two wrongs dont make a right, giving groups money to advance a political objective is not a act of peace, especially not if you claim to aspise Democracy when in reality you have a secret dog collar with the EU,Russian Flag etc. on it. Imagine for a second that youre wife,gf etc. was pretending to be in love with you but in reality shes some whore being paid for by some shadowy sources difficult to impossible to find, imagine it, because this is in essence what we are talking about here just in the form of Politicians and other political actors, IT IS WRONG.
EU must provide funding for pro Europe organisations from the postsoviet space. Thus it will be promoted the democratic values of freedom, equality, rule of law, free market, tolerance etc. This tool will also help the societies to overcome the old habits, which were typical for the comunism.
I fully agree, Venci. My view exactly
A second thumbs up from me!
The EU have to support democracy in the world. Keep doing what are you doing.
should first think about democracy to exist in Europe before promoting it around
Europe should better stop this. This boycot costs the EU billions of euro’s and for what ? Ukraine is not our problem.
Did we support pro-democracy groups? Like Svodova? What we did is to desestabilize Ucrania suporting the resistance groups, as West always do. Doesn’t matter who are the rebelds, we support them.
Vencislav, you really read the western marketing. Which kind of law, freedom and equality are you talking about.
Maybe the inclusion of baltics republic in Nato, maybe the recognition of the unilateral independence of Slovenia and Croatia in 1991 for the recently united Germany and Vatican.
Or maybe the creation of the war in Syria… c’mon. China and USSR were shit, but we are the same.
I am talking from my personal experience as a citizen of Bulgaria which was a direct victim of the comunist rule. I am talking about freedom of speech for example. A freedom, which gave you the opportunity to write here and discuss, and which you wouldn’t had had if you lived in Russia.
As for the war in Syria, please check your sources, because if the EU had suported the Free Syrian Army much more stronger during the early stages of the war, now we wouldn’t have talked about the islamists.(which btw were complete marginals until 2012)
Jorge, the NATO-9, i.e. the Baltics (3), Poland, Czech, Hungary & Slovakia (4), Romania & Bulgaria (2), ALL CHOSE TO BE IN NATO, either by referendum or through their democratically elected representatives. Moreover, Croatia & Slovenia seceded from former Yugoslavia, only after it became apparent, there would have been no cure against Serbian nationalism & domination. Do not misrepresent the history of the region, we all LIVED IT, down here in Central & Eastern Europe. And the fact that we all chose to be NATO & EU members is symptomatic. We don’t want the Russians to push us around, again. Not ever again.
But your perfectly happy letting Brussels push you around. The EU itself is the new Soviet Union, it is 100% undemocratic, it steals our money to give to corrupt politicians from east and southern Europe.
should first think about democracy to exist in Europe before promoting it around..
Human rights and democracy are our core business, to see other peoples denied these is a call for action.
WAR CRIMES COMMITED ALLREADY FROM ‘PRO EUROPEAN” GROOPS OF NEONAZI IN EAST UKRAIN
The best offer should always win ! Let the people decide! Provide funds anf if it worth it than let them let it be
No
Trade trade trade…. Engage with trade and bilateral agreements! If you offer “funds” you corrupt the country! You give money in one pro-democracy party, that in the end becomes addicted to foreign money and uses all means to stay in power, by keep twisting the arm of their donors for more funds, in exchange for more democratic reforms and keeping the status quo! These money are being misused and they corrupt the “democratic” elites which eventually they become gangrenous both to the country and the donors!! Better engage with them with trade, and bit by bit via investments and continuous cooperation, change will come naturally!! It will be the people themselves who will initiate it, after seeing how we live, our values and way of thinking, once they come over here to work, study or do business, or vice versa we go over there to start businesses and invest in their countries!!
@Christos Mouzeviris
This has and is happening already in the confines of the EU. The EU gives money to parties and fora [like DE] to convince, coerce and coral the good, the bad and the ugly but especially the YOUNG to mistakenly believe that the EU is democratic and that all EU member countries are equal.
Europe should lead by example, not by funding. Europe needs to stop meddling in everything that shows up in the political horizon, and concentrate in showing its values by acting! Internally first! There is plenty of internal political consolidation that needs to be done before we start buying into other people’s problems.
The EU needs to become democratic first before teaching democracy to any one. 1st step: direct democracy
.
A bit late for that don’t you think.
It should stop funding media outlets to.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
No, Europe don’t stop to funding pro-democracy group in eastern Europe. Russia is a dictatorship? Well… it’s a problem of Russia governments, not our, not of the pro-democracy group supported by the EU. We have a strong human right legislation, strong democracy values… we can’t take down our head or blank our idea because Russia raise his voice. We are strong too and Russia governements has only to shut up and stop his imperialistic aggression.
Umberto Banchieri
Your EU backed & funded the overthrow of a democratically elected government by the mob.
Even now Nazi militia backed by your EU are shelling civilians so who exactly is the ‘dictator’ ?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
The Title says ”Should Europe stop funding pro-EU groups in former Soviet countries?” and then in the Paper it says ”Last year, European states launched a fund to support pro-democracy groups in the former Soviet bloc, North Africa and the Middle East.”
So what exactly is this money for, is it for Pro EU groups or Pro Democracy groups?
I do not think that the EU should be pumping money into political organizations in other peoples countries and thereby distorting the politcal realities in these nations, lets not forget in Politics Money is power, if these pro EU groups have a natural support in their respective populations then they will manage on their own, if they dont then supporting them is not Democratic but actually anti Democratic, and conflict will possibly be one the results of this policy. I hope that the Swiss,French,British etc. open their eyes and ears wide and find out what their Tax Money is being used for. People dont pay taxes for it to end up in North Africa in some Democracy group or in the Ukraine in some Pro EU group, people pay taxes to provide the infrastructure etc. in their nations. And please dont come with the solidarity crap, this argument has been so over used that its not even funny, and on this topic we are not talking about development assistance for poor people, but instead political meddling in other peoples countries, the word solidarity is not to be used in this political context, political meddling & scheming is not solidarity!
Europe should grow a pair, mind their own business, be independent from the EUA and work for it’s citizens.
Well if the blood bath/ethnic cleansing going on in Ukraine is anything to go by, Id say yes its a bad idea, WW3 is on the brink in Europe thanks to the EU.
Of course it should! When a political party gets money from a foreign country or organization it lacks of independence and doesn’t make its people interest. Moreover, these “pro-democracy”groups are usually authoritarian – and in some cases openly neo-nazi – organizations making coup d’etat disguised by “revolutions”. See what happened in Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and what they tried to do in Belarus (fortunately they failed).
yes
Well, then close The EU. If The EU is not going even to develop this kind of Foreign Policy, then we will not have any at all.
i dont know but did europe likes the groups that in 70s were bombing every where in europe???
Yes.
.
How many lives will you sacrifice on the alter of EU expansionism ?
http://www.dw.de/more-deaths-in-eastern-ukraine-as-fighting-intensifies/a-17867002
the pro eu parties overthrew the Ukraine govt…..the eu must be Stopped NOW.
Yes stop spending our money.
Financing foreign interest agencies in other countries is act of hostility.
Ivan you are only a poor ukip lacche… Stop to watch the stupid putin propaganda backed by your friend farage and his allies…
No, not only because as so many people already said here democracy, should be a concern of all the democratized nations, not only a burden of US. But also because EU is achieving its status quo in the international community, which means actions like supporting democracy in other countries, specially the neighbor ones, is a burden that EU should have. “With great power, comes bigger responsability” and the EU as one, of the rishest nations on earth, has the duty of supporting others. Beyond all these reasons, the EU support for democracy in its own backyard is a matter of great importance, to mantain and promote peace in Europe. ;) So like i said, at the begining of this comment the EU should not stop doing it, on the contrary it should continue to do it, for security reasons. And another small detail the EU is not all expansionist, since the countries that constitue the EU and the countries that apply for joining it, make this VOLUNTARILY not by FORCE, Like Russia and China are doing or trying to do.
Isto aqui na EU uma maravilha…foi a EU que enviou apoio aos refugiados na Crimeia…foi foi …eu vi…e foi a Rssia que impediu e est a impedir essa ajuda de l chegar…foi foi…eu vi…ah e no foi a EU que apoiou a queda do Presidente da Ukrnia e est a apoiar os neo-nazis da Ukrnia…no est no…eu vi…alis todos viram…
Rmi Dassonville
Yes they should care about us and let in Peace Russia
Start by defining democracy. What democracy is for us might not be democracy for other people … then stop pointing fingers at people just because they have a different opinion. I don’t think Russia (Putin might, but not Russia) have a problem if the EU is supporting organizations in the former republics, if it’s done in such a way where the EU is not sponsoring an anti organization, but that would never happen ;-)
But I think we should clean up in our own house first;
– human rights in Hungary
– women’s right to chose in Poland, and Ireland (dooo)
– gay rights in Eastern Europe, and the former USSR states
And then, democracy in not democracy if it’s forced on people, or under thread, it is something people choose because they see it the right thing.
Stop meddling please.
http://www.vilaweb.cat/opinio_contundent/4207574/why-catalans-are-separatist.html
the neonazi murderes of Kiev must face court for crimes against humanity
Europe shoud help comunitis in the east and push back “Putin – Stalin”. Russia is agresiv like in XVIII – XIX century :P
Poles should be expelled from our country and sent back to Poland. No more handouts for worthless Polish farmers either.
Poles WORK in your country, idiot, otherwise they wouldn’t BE there.
And so is everyone who stays long term you xenophobic little man !
I really don’t know if EU should spend contributors many in such a way… We still have to build a lot in EU countries, from the former area of influence of the Soviet Union, such as the Central and South-Eastern European countries, in my humble opinion.
I do not like any idea about financing some political or religious groups in other countries than EU members . If EU finance some groups they should publish that .
ASK THE POPULATION OF THE NEW MEMBERS OF THE EU, THAT CAME OUT OF THE FORMER USSR, BUT ARE NOW HAPPY PARTS OF THE UNION ITSELF, ESTONIA, LATVIA AND LITHUANIA.
ALSO THE ONES WHO STRUGGLE TO ENTER THE UNION, OR TO CONNECT WITH IT, GEORGIA, MOLDOVA, ARMENIA.
ASK THEM ABOUT RUSSIA, RUSSIANS AND THEIR POLITICS.
BECAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD HAS GIVEN THE ETIQUETTE OF IMPERIALISM JUST TO THE US.
WHILST THE REST ARE MUCH MUCH WORSE.
Everybody does that. Including Russia.
http://depletedcranium.com/lobbying2.jpg
YES, stop it NOW…Let the Slavs solve their own problems before they join the EU…
NO, Putler has been sending his spies ad subversives all over the EU for many years. Eastern EU still needds help to spread the truth.
Exactly.
It’s nice and cozy to talk from western Europe…but here in the east we’re seeing the bear closer and closer and we ain’t smiling.
This is an interesting opening to this thread.
First, in the heading you admit Europe is in fact using tax payers donations, stolen from their pay packets in order to pay for leadership chicanery in other peoples land. And you did this without once feeling you should have consulted with the citizens of Europe before you began this horrendous scenario.
You follow it up cheekily by then admitting this is what you do with our money, as if you have every right to do so, asking us if we agree with this kind of corruption. Now that really does take the cake.
Now how can the citizens of this continent stop this abuse against them. Simple, vote for and insist on Direct Democracy. Once we had that way of stopping what we do not want in our name, you would no longer have the power to disregard our wishes, unless you openly declare war on us all. Which presently, you are indeed waging a war on the people, culture and society of our collective States without once openly revealing what your aims are and where you are taking us with the assault waged on our way of life, traditions and expectations the way you are doing now.
Next, what is truly behind these payments made to subversive organisations who claim democracy is what they are working for in their own lands? How do you check that the money we give you to fund these groups is going toward an honest campaign for good. And who is at the back of your decision to do this. Especially when you consider NATO affiliation is the aim of every single one of the countries you have allowed to be part of the fold so far. Now of course we see the Ukraine is another war waged under the cloak and dagger coup you took our money to pay for. Could it be you are jumping high and fast in line with the requirements of the US pentagon who want their finger in every European pie? All done with the play on the word protection.
So the real question in this thread to our citizens has to be, ‘do you want to be led by NATO and the whims of the US as they pretend they are selling you freedom and democracy?’ That would be more honest would it not?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUn2UuLvmvw
And
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJssubnwWY
Please will the EU leadership tell us, the European people, when you asked us to vote on whether we wanted to be directed and run, like tethered poodle lap dogs, by the USA and its financial corruption that goes against the wishes and principles of our deepest political beliefs? There is the answer to your question.
Not having been a previous fan of, Farage, as I don’t want to be out of Europe, as I believe that to be a backward step from the future, I have to admit his initiative on the prospect of ‘Direct Democracy’ to all Europeans, is a vote I would make regardless of all else. It is the single most important policy we should consider in our lifetime. It is the only way to democratic freedom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrmvgLUaUak
And here is how Direct Democracy works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai99eEbz3IA
A direct democracy is an very poor choice if people are influenced by russian propaganda.
And at the moment judging by so many pro-russian comments they are.
Thank you for letting the cat out of the bag- or is at the old ancient pig in a poke (scam) repeated! Gotcha! EU’s own CIA style machinations being born!
https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/history-of-the-cia
And where are the AFS 2013 of the EED? (“Annual Financial Statements”)
EED has 39 meanings! And the winners were………….?
…………the “Seventh-day EU Adventists” ……………..
preaching dogma from the only and accepted EU Bible as the only source of their beliefs. EU creates- EU loves & EU redeems- but the EU begs & wastes our tax money on unwanted propaganda! Hallelujah!
Most EU citizen have no clue- what’s brewing! We are been marketed & dominated already by inexperienced African & Canadian comedians!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ozdz7fMdXI&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0ozdz7fMdXI&has_verified=1
@Ekaterina Titova-Chylkova
Are these the consequences of the ill designed Maastricht EU/US/Nato treaties? Is that a peaceful, step by step, negotiated enlargement- democratization process? Where are the discussions in the EU/EC/EP or junior EED- the main players?
If South Africa’s worst apartheid atrocity of one incident- where 69 civilians protesting & confronting the police were dispersed & shot using live ammunition:
http://overcomingapartheid.msu.edu/multimedia.php?id=65-259-E
was condemned around the world- Apartheid labeled a crime against humanity- than these methods & crimes on civilians are in numbers and severity many fold worse! No condemnations? No negotiations! EU’s enlargement drive in the east by “such devious means”- should earn equal status as “a crime against humanity”!
What kind of undeclared war and strategy is this, trying to pacify a disputed illegal or legal Ukrainian Home Guard, by indiscriminately killing civilians from 40 km away? Is this to be the true face of a final EU dictatorship? Dusting off tragedies like these as ‘unfortunate’ & necessary side affects to achieve one more EU goal?
Where are the voices in the UN, their resolutions, the HRC, the churches and honest politicians? What an atrocity under cover of an unconscious EU! Shame!
No. You’re investing in countries that might be close partners in future. Nobody’s buying or forcing anyone, the Ukraine events speak for themselves.
YES, Europe should start relations with former Soviet countries (and specially with Russia -so, problem killed), they are also Europeans (for me, they are our brothers), like us. We ALL can live in peace and collaborating with each other
No, because those funds are not used to strengthen democracy but to destabilise the countries by interfering in their internal affairs when their governments are friendly with Russia. At the same time EU ignores the democratic rights of all people who support their rulers and does not fund their initiatives, just because they are not hostile to Russia. As the funding is used for activities which have nothing to do with democracy, it has to stop. The money could be used better to tackle problems inside EU, rather than for fighting Putin under the guise of democracy. If Russians don’t want him, they will not vote for him. EU cannot do anything about it.
There was a funny joke in Romania during the soviet occupation:
John at school – his teach:
“Johnny why do you say about all countries “our friends” but of russians you say “our brother” ?
Johnny:
“Because you can choose your friends”.
So is with Russia.
Their idea ( and probably yours too as you seem to be one of the many trolls from kremlin ) is “friendly = under OUR THUMB”.
Sorry that’s not how it works in the civilized world.
The eu should go away and Never reveal its ugly face again.
YES!
Need to understand what EU wants. Democracy in post soviet counties? Democracy in Europe isn’t more than in Russia. European intererests are very pragmatic… Resurses, resurses, resurses. This is only business
Europe could and should be an example for other countries, so helping them to archives western standard it’s something good that should make all of us proud.
The EU by definition cannot do anything pro-democracy because of the EU´s own inherit undemocratic design.
The EU is exactly as democratic as the old Soviet Union was.
I wish ignorant people would stop talking about things they have never seen or experienced or even read about correctly.
You sound stupider and stupider each time you compare the EU with the USSR, seriously…
You seem to be ignorant about how democracy was before the EU came and destroyed it. Now we have all these unelected kommissars from the EU politburo (commission), most of whom are foreigners and many of them former communists from eastern Europe who seem to think they have the right to overrule our elected government.
To us, the EU is not an improvement in governance, but a massive step back.
Yes. Stop it now. If other countries want to become part of this country it should be by their own choice. That way they can’t become a part of the EU one day and be against it the following day.
Yes but due to russian propaganda France voted en-masse for a fascist BITCH and britain’s clown ( Nigel Farage ) is getting plenty of air time to spread his propaganda.
The EU should counter that with their own pro-EU PR campaign.
Never stop
yes, sure, EU should not interfere in other countries, its just stupid to think everyone should looove EU
we allready know EU is not a caritative organization but a banking and monetary organization… please disolve yourselfs
No.
Russia continues to fund fascist anti-EU parties.
RT – their propaganda channel continuously hosts shows and guests bashing the EU at every turn to change people’s minds about the EU.
And the lack of involvement of EU authorities is showing that russians are winning this battle.
The EU needs to do MORE not less.
Europe Should stop being USA’s marionette and start being really free and democratic Union.
Should Russia start to fund anti-EU groups in the EU countries? The answer is more than obvious.
Aren’t they already?
How do you explain the sudden orgasmic reactions of the fascist far-right in Europe to Crimea’s annexation?
Yes mate Russia should do just that.
Lets get a few things straight in the minds of people coming here with regard to this issue. Yes, Europe should be using our money to fund their propaganda agendas for expansion? Oh, really.
Are you really happy for this resource you have donated, via your hard work to be spent this way, rather than on health, education, youth employment, pensions, child care and so on. Would you really choose this massive funding of seriously political groups who are backing the US/UK/EU project of regime change in countries you say you don’t want to join this union?
Maybe you should listen to this CIA man, yes, it is on RT, whose propaganda is nowhere near as misleading and intrusive as the US outlet, whom, by the way, censor their newspapers so that Americans have to resort to foreign outlets so they know what is really going on . Here are a few home truths. I’m putting this here because I know I don’t want my money used for this clap when there are really important issues we need to work on for our benefit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1f1zgbGMV0
And the European ex energy guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOeq9DPG3FU
Like in the USSR times? ;)
The eu should stop wasting my money on propaganda promoting something it’s not very good at. Democracy.
What a great job it’s done in the ukrain. Eu keep your nose out of other country’s business otherwise you’ll have more blood on your hands
I can agree with you to a certain point. But, let switch places for a year and see for yourself how’s to share borders with Russia ? Now, in terms of money, how much is enough to buy (mostly fake sense of) personal security ? Back in cold war, I bet your country was filled with nuke holes, or nuke carriers. How much do you spend back then on nukes ? Buy one, get 2 free kind of deal ?
If you had to stay near the bear for 50 years you would certainly change your tune, buddy.
I rather have the EU than the old soviet Russia.
@Crayven:
Buddy is an American term never ever used in Europe by Europeans, funny you would use it.
Now, as I’ve been trying to put up here for some time, we now find NATO is clawing for more money to use its nuclear weapons in Europe in its march against Russia. This time the call is, we don’t have enough money to proceed against Russia on the ground. But, we will outwit with our WMD.
Read all bout it folks.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2735501/Nato-powerless-stop-Russian-invasion-Eastern-Europe-says-British-general.html#comments
And whilst you are at it, look up, UN Agenda 21, research as much of it online as you can find. And read about that particular policy, Bush and Blair, as well as others, signed up for on Depopulation. How the plan inside the US war department has always been what they call ‘a small controlled thermonuclear war’ in central Europe. And the ultimate outcome is? Depopulation without it reaching any US city or their population.
Read this full page and it will all fall in place.
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/12/03/depopulation-of-the-masses-has-begun/
First of all, it will be a cold day in hell before i read Daily Mail and BELIEVE anything they say!
Second, i’m sorry, since when using ‘american terms’ disqualifies my opinion?
Yes i picked up american slang and terms during my time there, is that bad?
Would you prefer i use “chap” ? “Old boy” ?
“NATO is clawing for more money to use its nuclear weapons in Europe in its march against Russia”
Russia is invading a sovereign country and we are DEBATING that somehow NATO is at fault? Have i missed anything here?
Sorry , i don’t buy into conspiracy theory craziness. I am known to follow reason and evidence. I mean…seriously.. “controlled” nuclear war?
First of all a nuclear war is not “controllable” because the variables quickly outnumber the calculation ability of any analyst once the first nuke drops.
A nuclear war is an END war. And first to be hit WILL be America. Russia ain’t stupid.
Yes! That used to be the difference between the USA and Europe.
@ CRayven:
Well if you won’t go near the Daily Mail why try any of the others? They all get the same feed and they all follow the propaganda delivered. So, whatever you are reading, be that the Daily Mail or the New York Times, you will get the same nonsense.
Here is an example. Same story, we want more money, but set up for pretenders who want credibility by following propaganda through an ‘honoured’ and ‘educated’ front. Don’t make me laugh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28942065
And you appear to have a very one sided view of what is going on here. Does it ever occur to you that this war will only affect Europeans, not US citizens or cities. Now doesn’t that send a chilling message through your body. Or,, as I suspect, you don’t have to worry as you are not on European soil. and in a European city. Or, if you are, will have a quick exit route planned when all is imminent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eqyX0g5bNY
And the Russia Today point of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lspli7CubV8
@Catherine:
First: RT is a russian propaganda channel – whatever they say about this issue can be ignored.
Second, can everyone STOP talking about an EU-Russia war? There won’t be a war, we’re not idiots and Putler is not demented to try to enter NATO countries.
Third: Russia’s economy has already entered recession. All we have to wait is for Putler’s population to get over the Crimea euphoria and rise up.
China doesn’t support him because they got minorities in Siberia too.
And his so-called Eurasian Union are just satellite states strong-armed into this by Russia.
And no, i didn’t say we should kiss USA’s ass. All i said is we should take a third position and distance ourselves from both and go alone.
Condemn Putler and stay away from US’s fascist ways.
For your information i *AM* in the EU, i am in an european city and in fact i am in a city on the border with Ukraine.
So don’t you lecture me on what is going on here.
I think if i had powerful enough binoculars i could even SEE the action.
It’s easy to say “let Russia steamroll into Europe” when you’re on the other end and over the channel, isn’t it?
Great, the EU is surrendered by enemies and oppresive regimes and we now finance overthrow of governments in all of our neighbouring countries. North Africa, Turkey, CIS, all our neighbours should be over exited to cooperate with the EU. I wonder how economic problems can be solved when you are at covert war against all your neighbours and you have close to zero natural resources, aging population and overbloated social security system that we can not afford to keep.
Let’s not forget that Viktor Yanukovitch was the duly elected President of a democratic political system who, after deciding that the E.U wasn’t going to do enough for Ukraine, chose to build stronger ties with Russia. We ( being western Europe) supported the revolutionaries against the leader of a duly recognised government. Then, we left the revolutionaries fight for themselves. That kind of tactic is beyond disgusting and Rassmussen should offer compensation to Ukraine, a formal and public apology to Russia, resign and offer himself to the world court. This sort of action is NOT what the E.U is biult on and should never be tolerated.
It`s typical eu behavior .
YES
Yes I have the same opinion europe should stop stabilize other countries and start its a free and Democratic Europe Union
Haha. These guys much desire EU membership,
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LnBr2iH.png[/img]
No economic development, no stability. D’you really think Europe should drug them out?