In 2014 the European Court of Human Rights upheld a French ban on face veils. The court ruled that a 2010 ban on wearing full-face veils in public does not violate the fundamental right to freedom of religion and expression. The case was brought to court by a 24-year-old French woman who argued that that she wore the niqāb – which covers the face, leaving only the eyes exposed – for religious reasons, and that the ban violated her right to private and family life and freedom of thought.
The court, however, ruled that the ban “was not expressly based on the religious connotation of the clothing in question but solely on the fact that it concealed the face” and that “the face plays a significant role in social interaction”.
What do YOU think about the French ban prohibiting full-face veils in public spaces? Does the ban discriminate against the beliefs of religious minorities? Or is it a way to include everybody equally within an open society, something full-face veils prevent by discouraging social interaction? Should other European countries copy the ban?
In recent years (and particularly following the rise of the anti-immigration Front National party) public debate in France has taken a much harder line on upholding secular values. Secularism (or laïcité) is seen as a cornerstone of the French Republic and is enshrined in the French Constitution.
France (with the largest Muslim community in Western Europe) was the first European country to ban veils that fully conceal the face, followed by Belgium. In addition, local bans on face veils have already been implemented in Barcelona in Spain, Ticino in Switzerland and in some cities in Italy.
Do you think a ban on face veils violates the fundamental right to freedom of religion and expression? How far should states be allowed to go in prohibiting religious signs in public spaces? Should other countries copy France and implement a ban on face veils? Share your thoughts and ideas in the comments section below and we’ll take them to policy-makers for their reaction!
IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Leena
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Debating Europe will not tolerate racist or xenophobic comments in our debates. We want to encourage different views on this issue, and intend to include your comments in interviews we will arrange with supporters and critics of the ban. However, if you take part in this debate then you agree to our Code of Conduct. Any comments in breach of this code will be removed.
612 comments Post a commentcomment
Our country our rules, your country your rules. Easy, isn’t it?
When did it become your country, and not theirs?
You do realise the majority of French Muslims are from French Algeria and West Africa, right?
I agree.
Even if you travel for a short time to another country, you try to act like them, to abide their laws and to respect the way they live because that’s their country, they make the rules and you’re just a guest.
Baning these things is done for the good of the majority and for the security of the state as a whole.
If you want to live in a plural democratic society with freedom of speech and where religion and politics are kept fine! If not stay out of Europe, remember many people think monotheism is a insult to the human intellect.
In European Culture you show your face and you shake Hands and look the person in the Face/Eyes, anybody that doesnt understand this is obviously not European or trying to impose forwign values on a European Society. Any attempts to do this must be met with friendly but clear resistance. Muslims must be shown borders now because if we say everything islamic is permitted just like in Saudi Arabie then all of us will lose our rights to live Free. Islam is not innocent.
yep :)
It is a clear violation of freedom of choice, expression, religion,etc.. Why the veil be banned if one wants to wear it?
Law makers are not there to do whatever they like, they should demonstrate the well of the people. It is an embarrassing act to prohibit people from what they want to do in 21 century.
Metra, the court has already given an answer to your question.
… and since when does the Q’uran say that the Hijab is obligatory. The only thing stated there is the same in the Tora and in the Bible, that women should wear scarf, not Hijab… That is a local tradition that has nothing to do with religion!!!
Of-course. They can wear a head-scarf if they want, but wandering around with their facial-features covered is a security risk.
I agree most of us who choose to leave our country to live in another are eager to fit in, but these people have no intention of doing that, instead they expect us to change to their customs, I say if you don’t like it go back where you come from
Uhhh gerasimos what if they were arguing about if Christian’s are aloud to go to church or not …… I bet u would have a different answer then right ???? Our religion Out choice !!!! Who are you lot to tell us what we should and should not do in our religion?? Who knows about Islam better you ?? Or the Muslims???
Samaeya, this debate is about European society. It is not about religion.
I’m offended by clown costumes, therefore I think they should be banned.
yes!!!
yes, without any doubt.
YES
It is just another classic case of the clash between choices of individual freedom and rule of law in countries and/or EU. If EU is to embrace the values it claims to be build upon, I think you have your answer.
THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.
Yes. It’s not the clothes that is the problem, it’s what those clothes represent, that is the most un-European of values.
People can believe in everything they like, however I believe that the Muslim women are a collateral victims in a society that represses them. Not asking only on the Burkas. What if the next Einstein was a woman who by chance was born in a Muslim culture but wasn’t able to develop her cognitive skills because she was beaten with whip because she wants to study.
Above in the comments I read one which says that EU is the freedom land and I see things so how ppl are running from home’s because there can rape you on the street because you don’t support some dogma from a book which was writen ridiculously long ago, was heavily filtered to fit the needs of the power having at the time (will give the christian example here… First Council of Nicaea the first bible filtering. The books that had depicted Jeasus as human where out of the game). Many interpret the writings in those “holy” to fit they needs now. Just turn on your TV and check. Don’t forget to turn the TV off after that because some brain damage can occur :-)
So I don’t think that getting the veils out will solve the problem. However I think it’s a security risk.
Anyone who had been robed from a guy with a mask on his face and try to identity it with the police? Preshious moments that no one can say who actually stole your stuff.
bilateral agreements should be reached on mutually protecting freedom of expression between EU countries and muslim countries, especially for religious groups.
No… freedom of choise is the way. And respect. We need to star respect cultures and religions has a personal choise
Why we are interfering on somebody else’s private life ,
We are not in a position to tell somebody else what to wear , for century’s these people have been wearing the veil and it hasn’t been any problem why today ? France has been on list for discriminating people for so long don’t forget the Romans were kick out from France just last year , the French mass murders in Algeria so we shouldn’t expect much more from France today .
Actually that was the country who first proclaimed human rigths in Europe…
I thing this law adresses public, not private life.
before Islamic migration france was so peaceful…….now a days……….just like how we do crackers for x mas you people do bomb in all over france…….why? why cant u follow our rules since you are came to our country as guest….and are you muslims trying change our rule? if cant abide with our laws why cant muslims just leave back to middle east??
then why muslims are interfering in others rights in middle east countires??? how do u respond that as a muslim???
YES it should be banned. When we go to their countries we have to respect their rules so..
Well..we know that E.U is “a bastion of freedom”..for those people who are coming from countries where muslim religion is the capital law..About veils,well is a complicated matter,but i believe that the answer stands in the hands of european and muslim countries and their reaction when it comes about right of freedom.I mean..in Europe,nobody will take action if you will wear a veil in public,but you will have trouble if you will wear christian marks in the countries where muslim religion is a majority.And this is not quite fair.There should be a policy of conciliation between all countries.About freedom of religion and expression,i might sound odd..but i think that a solution might be that everybody keep his religion believes for them,in their own private spaces,and not show off in public spaces.But even so..i don’t think that someone will have something to say if you will wear a necklace or a bracelet (or some sort of other things)…with religious markings.There should be a ban law,but not to be exaggerated with.
I wrote about it back in 2010:
http://www.thenewfederalist.eu/what-hides-beneath-the-burqa-ban
I think it is wrong that belief/religion can be used as a ‘valid’ excuse to break laws everyone else must abide by. Most of the main world religions discriminate against women and they are ‘legally’ allowed to do that, how can that be?
I think many religions are also treated more favourably than other services/businesses for tax purposes – but ONLY if on a list of PERMITTED beliefs/religions.
For France to claim church and state are completely separate (secularism or laïcité) is nonsense: so many saints days, a day off for the ‘Assumption’ (a VERY bizarre belief), different shop opening rules for Sundays, churches (bells) allowed to breach laws which control noise pollution which apply to us ordinary folk…
Some people are ‘diagnosed’ to be suffering from mental disorder because they believe things which the majority do not = ha ha: that applies to christianity here in the west now – those weird people who believe in exposed
Protection of religious belief became protected in laws after WW2 when so many jews+ were murdered in the holocaust. But very many gay people, people with brain damage/mental health problems and people with physical injury/disability were murdered too.
Although ‘belief’ is said to be protected, it isn’t: if our beliefs are outside those currently accepted in this area and at this time we are persecuted. In olden days (and within religions) it is OK to see ‘visions’ and ‘hear voices’ – especially angels’ or gods’ – but if we say we see or smell or hear things others don’t (perhaps because their senses are dulled/damaged?) we are told we’re crazy. We may lose our liberty (be locked up = ‘sectioned’ in the UK) without a trial – let alone a fair one. We may be forced to take psycho-active drugs (‘medication’) to change who we are and what we think/believe and how we experience the world – our neurological system and very SELF will be changed to fit the current norm, no matter the damage/injury it causes us.
So WHICH beliefs must be protected, how and why? So many laws are old, they aren’t user-friendly and they don’t fit our lives here today, not most of us anyway. Majority rule, minority belief/opinion over-ruled? What if the majority are wrong? In whose opinion… la la la la. The shifting lines between right and wrong, acceptable and not acceptable, ‘good’ and ‘bad’ will go on changing for ever = probably.
Where I live tonight there is lots of noise, it intrudes and makes my life far more difficult (I’ve got a brain injury, depression and anxiety, probably PTSD = exaccerbated by long-term neglect, isolation, dangerous housing, no income or healthcare, threats of eviction etc.). It’ll be like this for 5 nights, for 4-5 hours every night, often until 1am. I can’t have windows open and even when they’re closed I still hear it/them (NO insulation walls/roof = a paper lodging). I ddn’t choose to live here and have hated this lodging for 2+ years but am prisoner here – or become homeless or live in a camp-site or in my car.
Others have the right to these ‘spectacles’ (in french) which cause me endless stress, worry and lack of sleep. Solution? Help me move somewhere QUIET, away from city centre, PLEASE. Ahh, but NO right to that? Why not when it’s made me so very ill and injured me more?
What if a ‘celebrity’ chose to wear a face veil? Her/his minders would protect them surely? Some ‘celebrities’ wear clothes (or lack of) which outrage certain groups, no laws about that, why? Do religions/beliefs (and choice of dress) deserve more protection than my health and sanity? Surely not a competition: ALL surely must be protected?
Yes, please
Yes. One has to take the origin of the practice in consideration to judge its use here. Appealing to a western principle like the freedom of religion won’t do. In many countries the government tries to level out the differences between men and women (for example, equal pay) because there exist power structures in a society that are systemic and should be mediated by law. To ignore the oppressive nature of the face veil is to measure with two standards, i.e., being hypocritical.
Let’s ban for “security reasons” also clown costumes, bandans, hats, helmets…So much for Libert, galit and Fraternit… Can’t imagine how challenging the winter season is in France for the security forces. Imagine all those people fully dressed. You can see only their eyes :P
Burqa and Niqab should be banned all over Europe! They’re just oppression tools to women, justified by some integralists who carry on a tribal tradition (not really related to religion) which is against the fundamental values and rights of freedom and equity Europe is based on!
I say no maybe more of a chose to wear would b cool but to take it away would b crazy, can’t strip ppl from there beliefs
THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.
Ban the facial covers.
As a EU citizen I cannot walk around with my face covered.
Rightly so people would suspect my intentions (have you tried walking into a bank with your face covered?).
In any part of the world, a person with a face cover is suspect.
Religious reasons are not a justification.
Ban the darn things!
It shouldbe banned all around the world, man?
It’s almost like banning a Christian from wearing the cross bc we are in a diff “territory”
Either way it goes you can brake a person of pull them away from wat they believe our choose to do or wear. Now they can take it off for a ID just so government know who they are
but Christians ARE banned from wearing their religious symbols in muslim countries. That’s the thing. Hardcore muslim countries should I add.
Your comment is fundamentally wrong in that it assumes that France is a Christian country, and that countries with a Muslim plurality are both hardcore, Muslim and that they ban Christian symbols, none of which is true.
Not all muslim countries. Some extremist like iran and those not sunny muslims ban them bs in egypt for example ot’s not banned and btw my friend is muslim and in Catholic school so I guess that means that not.muslims are extremist and in islam the religion itself god told us about freedom and how everybody is free to believe in what he wants . It’s just some extreme muslim countries are so stupid but that doesn’t define islame
And I think that’s the most attractive thing is the eyes. I just thick weird like that tho try to b open minded
Yes ban it completely
yes stanley! revenge!
yes, we need to see each other face and expression, after all what are they ashamed of?
if you bann the vel… i am going to use it!… i use to do whatever is baned.. so up to you!… banning something usually gives more publicity to it…..
… forget the cloths. … Simply ban and forbide anacronic attitudes, anacronic behaviours and proliferation of anacronic ideas. Burkas and veils are not islamic recommendation (there is not any recommendation on that on Coran). It is more a ‘criative’ formula for oppression of women.
Well I ain’t Christian I don’t believe in sacrifice. Yea we sacrifice daily but we aren’t hanging ppl on crosses asking “god” to take our men, all the religions tie together in the first place that’s wat makes it illuminati we just create war to keep the devil a secret at the in of the day we all will b looking into a worm hole with a worm with a collection of skulls from the biggest “Mother Nature” to the smallest the worm itself.. So really it wouldn’t matter wat somebody wears or do as long as they were happy and their for there fam
I read most of the people here belief they own europe… you dont own europe!… and also… for security reasons we shoud know which are the really intentions of politicians… really in this post i see a lot of European Stupidity and nationalism… you are ruinning europe and not the muslims!… right… and for security reasons in few years you will have to walk naked in the streets.
What a stupid claim. Face coverings such as crash helmets are banned from banks. The face is the window to the world when we speak to other people we hear half of what they say and the rest comes from facial recognition. If there was a strong religious ground perhaps but there is not. If they want to wear it let them in there homes .Also do not forget the terrorist who his behind the mask and dress. We need them removed for public safety.
Shit I wouldn’t mind that’s how it should have been in the first place, no fear in our hearts
As much as believe in respecting the personal freedoms of people, they should not be allowed if they pose a security risk to the general public. I have no problems with the Kippot or turbans. But I’m not in favour of Niqats or Burkas (the only two types of headgear that cover the face) Last year an extremist escaped police custody in the UK because he was completely dressed in full Burka.
Since facial contact is essential to social integration life, veil should be banned. It’s very rude to hide your face.
I am fully convinced that respecting the beliefs, both personal and religious, is a precise duty we have one to another. However, since we Western women must wear a veil while traveling across the Islamic Countries, also Muslim women should uncover their hair and face during their stay in the EU. Reciprocity, it’s all a matter of respecting the principle of reciprocity.
Face is the primary symbol if individuality, therefore it should never be hidden for religious reasons. Beacause individualism is what makes Europe to be Europe.
I hope Yes, the face veils is a symbol of submission and can be use as a cover for criminal act.
Yes, they should be banned. Full faceveils have a functional aspect in dusty locations but not in Europe.
Yes, it should be banned. There is absolutely no reason we should encourage this practice that is ultimately detrimental to the women following it. In a way it may look like we’re enforcing our culture, but I look at it more like defending civil rights.
General codes for how to clothe is not part of the Europe I want.
Veil Banned! Those women are not free.
It is a very delicate topic, since it concerns religious freedom, women’s rights, clothing codes, and security issues. It cannot be allowed whenever identity checks are necessary, like in airports. In what concerns women’s rights it would have to be a top-down measure such as a ban, however it could have negative consequences in the sense that in fundamentalist families women would not be allowed to leave the house anymore when in Europe…
I recommend to all of you read the comment of Ines Dantas, it is the most intelligent comment I’ve read about this in a lot of time.
Also interesting to see the comment of Keivan Hadji Hossein, I guess he is or he has Muslim origin (due to the name and surname)…. as well as Miriam Boccia comment.
I agree with all of them.
Ban the facial cvers.
What if I rob a bank like that or do some crime ? Its a security risk and it has nothing to do with Islam as some might think… If a policeman ask them to put it down to check their identity will they do it ? It should be banned for security reasons not religious.
I wish muslim men and women understood that a modest way of clothing as an aim can be reached many ways not just a few, very extreme and traditional ones. And I also wish European and American men and women valued modesty more in their own style.
Yes!
Ban Financial Mafias not modest ragdolls! Turkish helped to build Europe since the 50s,they are guilty for that…
my answer is: yes, it should be banned for the Eu citizens .
When in Rome…. ;)
The veil must be banned across the whole o Europe especially in respect of direct abuse toward female children. They do not ask to be veiled as babies and sent to school in shrouds whilst being brainwashed into believing God insists their bodies, hair, faces are an evil that instill in men the rampant desire to rape. They must be free to walk and play as nature or ‘God’ intended them to be as when they were born. To do otherwise is to collude with a sect that deliberately and with intent condones female child abuse. And not just in the veil but in so many other horrific ways. FGM, forced marriage, honour killing and on and on, ad infinitum.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4021/uk-veil-schools
This is a sickness condoned by our politicians to make children suffer in European lands. Why? Once they are eighteen and they want to adopt this code of covering themselves, then that is their choice, as long as they don’t impose it on women of European culture. Just as a woman takes up the vows of a Catholic nun she wears what is called a habit but does not impose this on others. Hers is taken up by choice not by force or indoctrination. Sad little Muslim girls are never allowed to know how it feels to be a human being, to be free to run and move as we are intended to do. This cannot be acceptable in Europe and be allowed to pollute our children with such brutality as normal. It is not normal it is deviant and goes against the laws of equality.
https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=N4e6U-D3K-bR8gfh7IHQAg#q=pictures+of+littl+girls+wearing+the+hijab
And, if a group of people want to perpetrate forceful vengeance on girls and women, they must leave European countries where such an offensive lifestyle terrifies and insults human beings born female. They must go and live in a country with a community that finds this treatment acceptable. Islam has no right to be here carrying out this aggressive act, threatening Western women with their life. Which is what they are now doing in the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386558/Tower-Hamlets-Taliban-Death-threats-women-gays-attacked-streets.html
It is extremist politicians who brought this into our countries and it is these politicians who must be held to account in a court of law for the harm they have done to our society by taking the steps needed to bring this about. This is one of the reasons we must have ‘Direct Democracy’ right across Europe in every state. So that ‘never again’ can ideologist politicians get away with imposing such criminal activity on our people in the European community. This is not what a Unied Europe was set up to do.
Completely against the law, nothing more than islamophobia. Anyone can commit a crime or terrorist attack. Anyone can walk around the street with a scarf on the neck and cover their faces. Or a hat and sunglasses. How many attacks in the western world were made by women wearing face veil?
If the woman are being opressed banning the veil won’t change a thing. They will still be opressed in private. Want to help these women, give them opportunities and support to leave and get away from abusive husband or community and if they still want to cover the faces let them be.
Completely against the law, nothing more than islamophobia. Anyone can commit a crime or terrorist attack. Anyone can walk around the street with a scarf on the neck and cover their faces. Or a hat and sunglasses. How many attacks in the western world were made by women wearing face veil?
If the woman are being opressed banning the veil won’t change a thing. They will still be opressed in private. Want to help these women, give them opportunities and support to leave and get away from abusive husband or community and if they still want to cover the faces let them be.
Let them be? Maybe you are supporting jelaous and egoistic husbands… these ‘traditions’ reach as far as 40ºC and even bathing in the sea. You call that freedom?
yes banned in Europe
yes
yes
Ins Beato this is first step
Well , I have always been in favour of freedom of conscience including freedom of religious, political etc believes. However, in many cases I am afraid that we put freedom of conscience before our safety something that can proove very dangerous!! France did not ban Muslims to express their believes they just draw a line between express of religion and security. This is why I strongly believe that other countries should follow their example.
Should European countries ban face veils that block idenity? Yes. Wear a veils at home, private religous meeting, etc… but in the public domain, faces should only be covered for exceptional reasons, unique police actions, especially those involving terrorists like ETA, etc…
I have a friend who wears a full-body veil in her own volition. I don’t think it is the government’s prerogative to dictate to her what she may or may not wear.
I also understand that most women do not voluntarily wear full-body veils. In this case the root of the problem is not the veil, but the person who forces the woman to cover up. Banning full-body veils only addresses a minor symptom without any effect on the actual root of the problem.
The ‘we must do it for security’ argument is ridiculous and unfounded. There are no reported instances of people committing crimes or hiding from justice covered up in a full-body veil in Europe. The very idea of it is preposterous.
the government can control what you wear in public places, it is called public order and is necessary for a society to continue to exist. likewise, it is against the law to be naked in a public place.
About ETA, the european court of human rights ordered the release of many ETA terrorists from prison… Around 70 terrorists released up now. Those are apparently not a danger to society. LOL :/
Yes!
Yes!
European have its own culture, different from country to country but common at the core. If Muslims wants to live by their own laws and rituals, go to countries ruled by their own principles. You are the ones who want to benefit from all that Europe has attained so you do all you can to come to Europe…no one asked you to come!
Hell yes. Why do they think they have to be walking around like ninjas ….
Yes! This is Europe…..
Everybody seems to think it’s a ban on the VEIL. Well no, it’s only the one that hide the face. And it’s for EVERYTHING that hide the face (balaclava also for example). It’s not against Muslim traditions. It’s about living together. The Coran never oblige women to hide their face. And at schools all religious signs are forbidden (crosses/kippah/…).
So, we have a law that ban all pieces of cloth that hide the face in public places. Because we live together. So we should be able to see each other. Why adding more barriers between us? There are already so many…
Debating Europe European Parliament Europa in Nederland Well, if the veil is allowed to cover one’s face permanently why do we still have passports with our face on it? Shouldn’t we take care of that either? Instead of my face on my passport I’d like to put a nice picture of my elbow in that box, can we arrange that too?
Or should I go for my nose? I don’t know, that’s a hard choice.
Yes. This is Europe, not Middle East!
Naturally… Yes!
In my house you follow my rules!
This is a very odd statement!!! Leonilde left her country to squat ours…
Yes absolutely its not their countries its ours so they will have to live by our rules if they want to live in europe if dont go home nobody say you stay here END.
Yes,they should and quickly.
YES
Sotiria ???? ????????!!!
Yes
Yes, European countries should ban face veils that block idenity. Nobody shoudn’t block the identify it’s not a question for religion, mode etc., it’s a question of low, if you cant’ identify you are nobody, so you have no rights, because you can’t be identify like a concrete person.
Yes, ofcourse!
Yes,yes….
.Banning what people wear is not dealing with the real problem of integration of different cultures into a western one . If these people really do feel they cannot integrate they should be encouraged to find a country where they can integrate into that society
That not only goes for burka wearers but all immigrants .
Interdire? interdiction de l’interaction sociale? quelle partie du corps est le plus important? l’adaptation et la tolrance mutuelle? les yeux sont le miroir de l’me? et les jambes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV93RF4rYas
Europe is famous for diversity, art and culture! Don’t allow religion to ruin all that! Let people dress as they wish to dress! Respect!
Ah you believe in diversitiy & respect Mr.Pillos, im guessing you are Greek, what would you do if you saw two chinese about to chop a dog up to cook him sweet sour?, afterall you believe that all other cultural things must be accepted & respected, and we have no right to intervene and stop them not even when they are doing it in Greece,France,Italy,Switzerland etc., so just keep your mouth shut while the dog is screaming in pain and about to be cooked & eaten, just shut up, but we both know that you would not shut up, no no, you would call the police or go over there and stop them yourself as killing dogs is not something compatible with European ways I say the same thing about the full veil.
You’re wrong my dear..Frederick Dooley.., this isn’t so it in Italy..,’cause the ” Reale’s act ” of 1970 ( one of the ” not terrorism laws ” ) doesn’t forbid ” burqa ” but just and only all the mask and the coverings ( like a crash-elmet ) , used during public demonstrations if it stops the identification by the ” public official ” ( like Cops , judges , or Policemen..) . Actually the ” burqa ” it’isnt forbidden.., even if ” Lega Nord party ” proposed in 2012 the same..act against all ” the muslim’s coverings “..outdoor..!
The problem is a bit bigger than just banning the face veil! Congrats to the EUHR- court who waltzed around this issue diplomatically!
Europe needs to reflect if the mixture of it’s “extreme liberalism, corporatism,
multi speed integrationalism,” & EU immigration “do gooders” policies-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1305716/Nobody-likes-gooder-Study-confirms-selfless-behaviour-alienating.html ,
rather than “Islam”, is the main threat- to its stability & its Christian foundations?
Quote: “Jurgen Habermas, the atheist German philosopher, declared after a meeting with Pope Benedict XVI: “Christianity, and nothing else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilization.”
One does expect that all immigrants adjust entirely to the values and the rights & obligation system of their host country “within a reasonable time”- and not the other way around!
Look at the “down to earth” Swiss: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/02/14/commentary/world-commentary/swiss-voters-send-eu-a-message-on-immigration/#.U7rHt5SSzX4
All “do gooders” need to “immigrate” to certain Muslin countries first and demand their- taken for granted- EU constitutional & religious rights there & see what “euphoric” reception awaits them:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Mutaween
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_police
http://www.ipex.eu/IPEXL-WEB/dossier/files/download/082dbcc54477af3e0144f4aa94c950c3.do
Happy to be back a thousand years?
Burglars cover their faces; Bandits cover their faces. There should be NO PLACE in my civilization for desert bandits and their ways.
The fact is not banning the veil per se. The fact is that most of women (I’m french, I live in a district in which most of people are muslims) who wear it are constrained to. If it was a conscious choice, it would totally disagree to this law but the fact is that it is an imposed choice on the way of living of some women. If banning the veil is the way to safeguard them and to make some (I’m not generalizing on muslims ! do not misunderstood me) people understand men and women are on an equal footing, I cannot say anything but a huge YES!
NO! What someone wants to wear is none business…
This doesn’t only go for “muslim” veils, but to all masks and clothing…
It is about right of the individual to chose freely what he/she wants, and clothes should not offend anyone; even lack of them!
THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.
religion must not be confused with chothes
When living in Rome behave like a roman. Behind closed doors do as you please as long as no harm is done to others. Enough said!
Yup.
I think one should be free to wear as little, or as much as they want, anywhere.. life is too short to live with restrictions.
I don’t think the veil should be banned unless for security reasons. Afterall, freedom of religious practice is one of the pillars of democracy!
I don’t think the veil should be banned unless for security reasons. Afterall, freedom of religious practice is one of the pillars of democracy!
Would you say its ok for Chinese people to go and kill & eat dogs in your country(im guessing youre Italian)?
If a cultural practice from foreign lands is imported to Europe there often is the question of place, is it the right place for this, can it be accomodated or is it too much, and even if it is not too much we must ask if it violates our principles, if you say the full veil is ok then eating dog meat in your house must be ok too, and next islamic wife beating will be legal as it is in some muslim countries and after that jews will have dark days but this time it wont be the nazis, this time they will be killed to chants of ”allahu akbar”, what you are advocating is the concept of pink glasses, THE WORLD IS NOT PINK GABRIELE.
Many intertwined levels are at stake here, in my opinion. To start with, this is a question of model of integration and religious freedom. France, here, is the exact opposite of the USA. In the USA, all religions and beliefs can be exposed in public spaces. Total, unrestricted liberty – with the excesses it can lead to (the famous: no liberty for the enemy of liberty, otherwise liberty for all…). In France, the basic principle is “at home, do as you please this is your private space, however public spaces belong to every body and therefore to nobody in particular, so no distinctive signs are to be displayed”. So here, clearly a model of regulated liberty with the explicit goal to accommodate everybody. So this principle, opposite to what is often thought, has nothing to do with Muslims, since it applies to Jews, Christians and Muslims – to name the big religions of the book. A century ago, school teachers would tell kids to hide their crucifix hanging around their neck while at school: let’s not forget that the origin of this principle is France’s own problems with it’s home dominating religion – Catholicism. A tolerance has evolved over time for small, not too visible signs of religion (kippa, chain hanging around the neck with a cross, a David star, or any other sign from any other religion). This model has worked fine for decades – in other words, no big clashes between religions in the public space or between religious people and atheist people (who are also part of the equation, since they have the exact same right to be in a religiousless environment, than religious people to be surrounded by religion – so why should atheist people have to bear the sight of religious signs everywhere??? Exposing them to such signs is a violation of their rights as well.).
The veil poses a problem, most probably because it is much too big (so it’s almost like propaganda – but I agree that the limit between too big and “OK size” is difficult to identify) and because you have no idea whom you are talking too if the whole face is covered. This last aspect clearly gives the impression that women are put under male domination and treated like lesser beings, since they cannot do as they please.
A last aspect hardly ever mentioned is the issue of public health, more precisely, the health of women – which is not respected here. Humans need sun exposure to maintain sufficient levels of Vitamin D. This is a vitamin which is not available directly from food (unlike other vitamins), but requires sun rays to transform into vitamin D. Covering up women from toe to hair when they go out prevents them from having sufficient sun exposure and increases the risk of vitamin D deficiency, which is damageable to their health. The more Northern you live in Europe, the less sun you get all year long, hence the more increased the risk for vitamin D deficiency, hence the more it is important to get sufficient sun exposure at each opportunity, hence women should be have the possibility to go out and expose their skin to little sun that is available “up there” and/or during the Winter.
I think, the matter must not rest here. A better way is, to leave this as a top issue of the self-determination process of muslim the women.
Fisrst of all the veil! BUT. Not only! ..any protective or disguisive mean of facial characteristic -in what is widely regarded as public place- either the carrier of mask is a private subject or…. public!
I think everybody should be free to wearwhatever it express him.But veil hides everything,a criminal could be hide back of a veil or an old woman but how can you be sure?Even my dog is scared in the view of a woman in veil.So i say yes it should be banned!
Yes!
The veil is one thing, modest and perfectly reasonable. The facial covering is not acceptabke.
Yes
Sorry Debating Europe, but the question as formulated above has been simplified, popularized is rather misleading and adds to confusing its citizens!
The question should rather be: ASSIMILATION OR INTEGRATION? That subtle difference in immigration policy will have devastating effects for EU’s future!
While the EU Council enacts INTEGRATION- many Europeans expect & would accept ASSIMILATION!
That is the crux of the EU’s immigration policy- a cause of discourse, would need thorough explanations & be put to a referendum in each members country!
The difference is:
ASSIMILATION means absorbing minorities into the ways of the majority – requiring them to adopt the majority’s language, customs and ‘values’ (while fully preserving the host nation’s cultural identity)
INTEGRATION by contrast, only requires acceptance of a country’s laws, of human rights such as freedom of speech, and of basic democratic rights, but does not require the eradication of all cultural differences or group-identities; it is conceived of as a two-way process, through which both the majority and the minorities influence and change one another, and in which differences can be peacefully accommodated as long is there a common commitment to living together. “
This model allows “enclaves” of the strangest cultures sprouting within the heart of the host country! I reject that. It is wrongly portrayed by a discussion about a strange piece of cloth! More articles on that subject:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_assimilation_and_integration_of ethnic_relation
http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/culture-war-when-assimilation-became-integration/
http://www.oecd.org/migration/mig/15516956.pdf
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2007/06/integration-ready-values
Great comment. However, what one can do with people that can not or do not want to be integrated in a society? What to do if such people constitute a threat to laws, human rights such as freedom of speech, and basic democratic rights disobeying or (worse) turning against them??
In order to try and understand the abuse of the female in Islamic society from birth to death, read this paper fully on the expectation of what women must suffer if she is not to face torment or jail, or, worse, death, simply because she was born a female. How can this torture be seen daily and found acceptable in a European society where the human right of every human being born into that society is ‘equality under the law.’
Therefore to condone it, by turning a blind eye to what is happening in front of our faces, is a criminal act.
http://humweb.ucsc.edu/jenniferderr/wp3/?page_id=67
http://humweb.ucsc.edu/jenniferderr/wp3/?page_id=67
Head scarf ok, face covered up is not. Aside from being a security risk, its anti-social; creates a lot of tensions. They may argue its their right to wear what they want. This is a very selfish opinion as the vast majority of the European population are against it.
As European citizens, we have the freedom of religion. In Islam, it mentions that Muslim women ought to dress modestly, but dressing modestly isn’t just one, solid definition; modesty is different to each individual. For some, it means wearing loose clothing and for some it means they only want to show their face/body to their husband/family. If a Muslim woman, who wears the burqa or the niqab, was told to remove the clothing from her face in places such as, airports or in court, a lot of Muslim women would do so because they understand the law. We live in a society where women expose a lot of skin and then they get the blame for being raped because ‘they’ tempted the rapists. When really, the men should be controlling themselves. However, especially in the UK, a lot of women dress provocatively on a night out and wonder why men won’t stop bothering them. These women, who wear the burqa, abaya, niqab and hijab are being targeted for dressing TOO modestly. It’s totally unfair. I can see the point that a lot of people have made about not being able to see their faces for security reasons, but like I said previously: there are a lot of Muslim women who will abide by the law if they are told to remove the burqa/niqab in airports, etc. So, no. The burqa should not be banned.
@ Millie Douglas:
You think this should not be banned because? A) It gives freedom to women? B) It allows them to have this voice?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVNpphVWs90
This cannot be acceptable in European schools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-zZFlsBeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVNpphVWs90
@Millie Douglas
Does Islamic jurisprudence specify the colour of a burqa or a niqab or a hijab?
Covering the face is an advantage for any criminal activity; not just in airports or Courts. Not all people are criminals, but by default a percentage are.
It’s that simple ” Love it or leave it !” I mean Europe, but of course there are alternatives as Bosnia and Albania. Otherwise, no I’m not agree with veiled heads in most public places like airports, railroad stations or shopping malls. They should wear it in their homes or at their mosques.
This is a tricky and messy subject, so I will attempt my best to be brief.
short answer (see argument bellow):
Ban the EXHIBITION of ‘obvious’ religious of accessories of all religions in public institutions (NOT SPACES). Including cruxes.
Argument:
We have came to terms with defining grounds of fairness across EU. We defined rules which attempt their best not to discriminate against gender, skin color, political ideology or even personal belief.
My proposal is that of the ban IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS because they need to address people in a neutral position, one that can serve all citizens.
Therefore we need to address things based in the commons. The most common denominator being that all individuals are born naked and without usable knowledge (if any) or belief.
With all the above said, is only fair to access that as with all choices we are confronted with consequences, one being that if ones religion symbol is represented through the exhibition of accessories they might not be allowed to be exposed when obviously representing a personal belief in a neutral place. After all it was a personal choice of adhering to that philosophy which may not be imposed towards others the same way others cannot impose theirs.
Regarding to the particular case of the face veil. Is only fair to accept that even though it is mainly used as a religious demonstration, can also be seen as clothing, hence why my proposal specifically addresses the ban in public institutions and not spaces in general.
Face is and has been from very early of our society the most common widely used form of identification, which is usually accompanied with extra methods.
Since is hard to distinguish a face veil as clothing from a personal belief (specially when removal is a problem), is far neutral to impose a restriction on it’s use on these institutions. The inability to enter or join such places due to personal belief need to be considered that of personal responsibility since the individual made his/her choice, not being states responsibility of accommodating one religion versus the other.
Same ends up applying to nudism, which even though has followers, most understand that it prevents disease spreading and provides environmental protection to the individual himself becoming societies best interest that is not allowed even in public spaces except were marked specifically as so, e.g of a marked place would be nudism camps and beaches which inform on entrance.
The complete ban of the veil in public spaces is and should be unacceptable because it is in ones right to privacy, personal life and personal belief. After all clothing is also a form of expression and has always plaid such role in society (jeans as an example), to which point that is in ones right freedom of expression.
Removal should be required when dealing with state representatives (when these are on duty) since these need to represent a neutral position and their own personal beliefs may differ from yours served citizen, hence both’s right should be respected. (example, police officers, medics, firefighters, politicians, just to name a few).
The exception for allowing the presence of symbols in public institutions should be granted in cases of emergency, as example, hospital urgency where time constrains may not allow the individual to remove his/her personal belongings that represent obviously their religion.
Public institutions need therefor to contain a space where the removal or conceal of this symbols can performed in private, on entrance. It is up to the individual to carry the necessary replacement( example specific clothing ).
PS: the argument that this “helps” certain religions because they don’t have as strong symbols is invalid since is your religions choice to symbolize items to represent itself and is the individuals choice of such religion.
I also have my two cents in private institutions, but lets leave that for another time.
@Darcy Bras da Silva
You want to play the clothing symbols game in order to tell us we cannot and must not ban anything people decide to do as it would mean taking away freedom from those who want to use the symbol to advertise their beliefs. Even though to give the right to wear a symbol of clothing that is proud of its physical and emotional abuse of 51%? of the population is their daily mantra? Now can you please explain why you feel the right to openly expose a belief of this abuse is right for those who wish to use it? And at the same time ask why you accept the ban of another symbolic clothing of fear and violence we have, but not that of fear and violence carried out today under the auspices of being good ‘religious’ following? Especially if you are the credo follower that happens to be female.
Here we go then, and think about this very deeply. Thousands of people throughout Europe have this last six months decided to wear the ‘Nazi swastika,’ and cover their bodies and face with it, as a symbol of their belief in Hitler as a ‘God’……Now, when you walk down the street and are confronted by this new open religion, every day, by more and more people who are taking up this practice, do you get a sense of doom for your society? Do you feel comfortable with what you are witnessing at a pace you never believed would be possible? And if not, why not?
Because, the religion that promotes this wearing of symbolic clothing of this kind on women, still today in 2014, calls for as much abuse and death towards its fellow man, especially if that fellow man is a woman, than Hitlers regime ever did. His was plain and simple murder, quick to all he wanted rid of. He did not raise the idea of amputation for theft, beheading in the street, stoning for adultery, burying alive, self mutilation, burning alive and so on, that the symbol of the Hijab professes is right to flaunt in front of this ‘Christian’ peoples society as a put down to them and their way of life as human beings, in their own lands these newcomers have infiltrated.
I will try to address each point at the moment they happen since this is long and might lead to confusion without proper referencing.
“You want to play the clothing symbols game in order to tell us we cannot and must not ban anything people decide to do as it would mean taking away freedom from those who want to use the symbol to advertise their beliefs. “
I never mentioned “allowing people to do anything they decide to do”, nor do I want the government dictating everything I can do or cannot do. Hence, why I carefully stated public institutions and not spaces.
“Even though to give the right to wear a symbol of clothing that is proud of its physical and emotional abuse of 51%? of the population is their daily mantra? Now can you please explain why you feel the right to openly expose a belief of this abuse is right for those who wish to use it? “
This statement is a little confusing. Lets start by asking who is this 51% you are talking about ? I mean where do this studies come from ? All across European Union ? Where are they published ? This is peoples lives, we can’t start trowing figures like that without data to back them.
Secondly, you mention “physical and emotional abuse” again to whom ? If you mean the people dressing it, I have to add that perhaps they don’t perceive it the way you do. It’s worth remembering that not a single country in the European Union mandates anyone on dressing like so, making it a 100% personal choice for them, reinforcing that they might have a different perspective from yours.
If you mean to whoever watches them, then I don’t quite understand the physical harm, and regarding the emotional side of things, is just like any other thing that is legal that may ‘injury’ anyones feelings. There needs to be a line between PERSONAL MORAL and state defined morality. So it’s not like for example “I condone smoking therefor nobody can drink in the streets now because it may harm my emotional status.”
“And at the same time ask why you accept the ban of another symbolic clothing of fear and violence we have, but not that of fear and violence carried out today under the auspices of being good ‘religious’ following? Especially if you are the credo follower that happens to be female.”
The bans that exist are very minimal and usually don’t outlaw usage of particular items but rather the caring of such items under a violent message and intention. Regarding this fear and violence I already addressed in the previous point, it’s worth to remind that this is YOUR perspective.
“Here we go then, and think about this very deeply. Thousands of people throughout Europe have this last six months decided to wear the ‘Nazi swastika,’ and cover their bodies and face with it, as a symbol of their belief in Hitler as a ‘God’……Now, when you walk down the street and are confronted by this new open religion, every day, by more and more people who are taking up this practice, do you get a sense of doom for your society? Do you feel comfortable with what you are witnessing at a pace you never believed would be possible? And if not, why not?”
If such thing happened context should be applied, for instance symbols often change meaning. There was a time where a crux also meant barbarian things for tribes or other countries that were colonized. Legislation should be something that once is set is suppose not to change for a long time, so is only fair require proper consideration and to be just in its writing.
You ask if I feel comfortable, I guess like again depends on which meaning is being carried through with that group. I mean currently law allows for participation in groups even when they are right wing extremists. Heck they even have their representation held in parliament and its their RIGHT.
I might disagree with peoples views, as long they don’t ACT under those views in ways that damage and or endanger others, I am fine with it. And as much I condemn them, it’s their right and I respect it. In fact I have passed through many times of discrimination myself and I still hold this position, because it’s in the way I see the only fair position to take.
“Because, the religion that promotes this wearing of symbolic clothing of this kind on women, still today in 2014, calls for as much abuse and death towards its fellow man, especially if that fellow man is a woman, than Hitlers regime ever did. His was plain and simple murder, quick to all he wanted rid of. He did not raise the idea of amputation for theft, beheading in the street, stoning for adultery, burying alive, self mutilation, burning alive and so on, that the symbol of the Hijab professes is right to flaunt in front of this ‘Christian’ peoples society as a put down to them and their way of life as human beings, in their own lands these newcomers have infiltrated.”
This is now full of personal feelings and in my opinion such stances shouldn’t be taken in law writing. One needs to be neutral when writing them since it will affect many peoples lives.
From your writing seems that you attribute a large group of behaviors to this Hijab. I personally don’t know enough about this religion, to assert if such claims are true or not.
However I can easily see many passages in the Catholic bible that could be easily seen just as cruel violent and or damning. These are not banned, because people tend NOT to practice their religion following a literal interpretation. Which makes me only understand that states have been acting on actions rather then written text in a book, from which case one needs to apply the same rules for other religions as well.
As another point, you mention “newcomers that infiltrated your society”, this again falls into many assumptions.
First you assume that only foreigners adopt such religious beliefs.
Secondly, you mention this “Christian” society, well most states do separation between state and religion, meaning that state has no religion in its law writing. I personally am Agnostic, would that mean that I am not part of this society you speak of ? This is us talking about law, not my personal liking or yours.
Hopefully I got everything covered, hope you understand my points better now.
Thank you for reading and participating in the debate.
@Darcy Brás Da Silva, a Chinese man is in his House in Paris,London,Lisboa etc., basically in Europe, and hes cooking, yes hes cooking something really good, want to know whats in the pot?animalia, chordata, mammalia, carnivora, canidae, canis, familiaris aka DOG.
Imagine it, this Chinese man is Living in the middle of Western Europe and he goes to the pet store and buys a nice dog, and then he goes to the asia store, he gets nice seasonings, herbs etc., he comes home, and gets ready to prepare a nice dinner, you who seem to believe that we must allow every foreign cultural practice no matter how extreme it is for us, you should have no problem with it, you should say no word about the fate of that dog, afterall the chinese mans rights to live out his culture even in the heart of Europe must have presedence over our beliefs of what is right/wrong and acceptable & unacceptable, well you are WRONG, W-R-O-N-G, when someone wants to import a foreign cultural practice, tradition, clothing etc. then the automatic questions that arise are ”is this the right place for this” and ”does this fit in here?”, I have no doubt that most people in Europe would tell this Chinese man that here we do not eat dogs, and I am saying to those wo advocate the wearing of the face veil that here in Europe its customary to shake someones hand and look in their face (its a sign of respect), if someone is wearing a face veil they will be going against our European culture & values, it is a provocation, I mean seriously even if you advocate Pro Burka you must be honest enough to admitt that this is a provocation in our Society, we can discuss this over and over but lets keep it simple ”the face veil is too much!”, if a muslim girl wants to be all respectable in the view or islam then she can cover hear head with a scarf, she can wear thick clothing that doesnt show her boobs etc., but again the face veil is too much!
@S.K You propose an excellent point in not importing/allowing every single cultural import. I think it’s important that we integrate communities and that we don’t get Chinatown like you USA has. (Nothing against china or chinatown, but rather against single culture in one location segregated from the rest of the society ). In other words, I don’t think multiculturalism works, but a flexible culture is required.
Our human rights allow the face veil, our law defends those animals, so it shouldn’t be acceptable to perform such actions.
In fact, these ban is being done in the pretext that it has nothing to do with religious beliefs, however there are other cases that haven’t been addressed.
What does it mean to ban the face veil with the argument that the face is important to our society and that it doesn’t have anything to do with religious motives?
Does it mean, that when a police officer of a intervention team is using their helmet or protection or head-hood for whatever reason is not illegal ?
Does it mean that when you protest and cover your face because of fear of retaliation in your work or fear of inhaling gas is now illegal ?
Does it mean that it’s cold and you have a large scarf, a hat along with sunglasses (pretty common in snow time) is now illegal ?
Does it mean if I have scar in my face I am forced to show it to everyone ?
If none of the above are illegal, where is the fairness and equal rights and justice in this ban ? I just can’t see it.
I personally have no use for the face veil, nor has any of my relatives or dear friends. However I like justice and believe that we have good strong values. We need to stick to them. This is an unfair ban, and has religious biases, no matter what you say, is the plain truth.
@Darcy Brás Da Silva
So you want to ban ALL religious clothing?
While your at it, why not ban ‘hats’ too? Even the non-religious ‘hats’.
I mean ‘hats’ get on some people’s nerves both physically and mentally.
‘Hats’ can be offensive and frightening to some people too.
Finally, ‘hat’ producers are forever being associated with a sinister NWO.
Please add ‘hat’s to your risible BAN LIST!
PS: Please look up the definition of the word ‘brief’ as your last post illustrates a possible misunderstanding on your part.
Can I go and eat a ham sandwhich in Saudi Arabia?, can I enter Saudi Arabia with my Bible?, can my wife wear a tight skirt and a tight top which shows a lot of cleavage(and she has big BIG boobs!)?`
Just like you would not feel comfortable with certain European/Western behaviour we Europeans have the same right to have an issue with foreign cultural and religious things which go against our European Western culture, surely you are not so ignorant to refuse to accept that in Europe the face is very important, so important that hiding it becomes suspicious, negative etc., or are you so fanatical with your religious views that everyone else must bow down to your islamic religious traditions regardless of where you are and what the year is. GET REAL!
@Tarquin Farquhar
I know the definition of brief, perhaps you didn’t read carefully what I wrote. Because If you did you would have found that I presented an short answer:
“short answer (see argument bellow):
Ban the EXHIBITION of ‘obvious’ religious of accessories of all religions in public institutions (NOT SPACES). Including cruxes.”
And then provided an argument, for anyone wanting to know WHY, I back that statement. Also worth reminding that this is a meticulous subject from which consideration needs to be applied, therefor I preferred to be more verbose and avoid rebuttal instead of just providing empty blank statement.
Maybe you also didn’t notice that this ban was suggested for public institutions and not spaces. Meaning you would still be able to use your hat in the street but not in lets say a public hospital.
Sorry for taking long to reply I did not received the notification in my email.
@S.K
The fact that we embrace difference, and base our values around mutual respect and cooperation of people, non discrimination is why we prospered so much. I don’t think that doing something damning (eye for eye) makes us any better then them.
I mean, if you don’t like the fact that when you go there you don’t have such freedoms, why doing the same on your own land ? Just seems hypocritical.
Is also worth reminding that western civilization has benefited immensely in the multiple times of history from their lands as well, so simply denying them the entrance on our lands, doesn’t feel right either. Heck we are better then that ? Aren’t we ?
@Darcy Bras da Silva:
So, you don’t know who the 51% of the population are they want to cover from head to toe? Pleeease, if you are not aware of what you are addressing, you cannot make a judgement. And don’t come back with ‘it’s not all women’ they want to force into shrouds. It is ‘all’ women and they are trying hard right now to do so in my country.
However, to make sure you are on topic, here is the situation for a ‘section’ of the population in the equality stakes of modern EU. We are barely one step away from a symbol of the swastika covering vast areas of our cities. To clarify, women make up 51% of the population. Give or take in the state you are in.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13038095
You also claim not to know these women are abused. Can you tell me if you live on this planet, or, are you in some kind of ‘Moksha.’ Being forced to wear body covering that conceals the identity and persona of any individual, on the grounds that same individual is a risk to the sanity of male sexuality, is in and of itself abuse. It is offensive to all women to witness such symbolism and the subsequent gross submission to it by our laws. However, it goes further than that. As well you know, although pretending not to know is a low cunning of a female who wants to pretend her male subjugate’s are doing it for her own good. As in the beaten wife. ‘He really loves me, and is only doing this to prove he cares. ‘ Here you can clue up on what the women of Islam are responsible for because they were born with vagina’s.
Their duties as women, we are being told, is to accept slavery. Which goes against European law. Therefore, the symbol of this slavery worn as a shroud over the female of Islam from childhood, means, under European law, the wearing of such garment goes against the principle of anti slavery. Therefore, It should never have been tolerated at any time on any level.
http://www.kalamullah.com/hijab.html
Additionally you have the audacity to ramble on about this being a personal feeling. I assume you mean my personally feeling? And we must not take into account personal feelings. Oh, really? What do you think Gay marriage is? Not about personal feeling or the perception of inequality? Get real, you are an air head. Most social law is based on mass ‘personal feeling.’ Even the laws against theft are based on personal feeling. The personal feeling that to take from another goes against the ‘well being’ and ‘feeling’ of ‘fairness’ in the community.
But to round this stupidity of yours up, Europe, whether you like it or not, was set up with laws and still is, regardless of what they tell you about secularism, based on the premise of right and fairness, under the ethos of Christianity. And therefore, Europe is a Christian model or bolthole. And, the wearing of the Hijab/Burka was brought to this continents streets by mass immigration. As, before the opening of our borders to this slavery symbol was rarely seen in our states except on those who were visiting. You must be sixteen and therefore without personal experience of Europe as little as thirty years ago. As a result, without you even being aware of it, you have been robbed of European history and culture by the ruling traitorous politicians who sold you out to the corporate wealth they covet in their own pockets.
You are in desperate need of historical research and an understanding of what you write. As, yes, it is ‘foreigners’ or ‘Ausländer’ who have brought this symbol of slavery into modern Europe, along with the reality of slave trading, here in our midst now. Had the border not been indiscriminately thrown open to social and cultural communities with such abandon, by uneducated greedy politicians of limited intelligence, Europe would not be facing these dilemmas in such vastness today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249797/Labour-threw-open-doors-mass-migration-secret-plot-make-multicultural-UK.html
And more importantly, how did this happen in what we call democracies, when the voter made it very clear over decades it was not in their best interests to do this and that they didn’t want it?
http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/pressarticle/83
PS: If you want to talk about being confused by the writing of English text by a born and bred native, you really need to take a lot more lessons in it as a priority. As, you barely have a grasp on wordage. However, the insult you threw my way doesn’t register with me on any level. Being a bulldog Englander eliminates me from foreign insults regarding my heritage.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=picture+of+English+bulldog+wearing+a+union+jack&tbm=isch&imgil=S_S2bHcNz99ESM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSNoO4mQvzrruFd5Gb1Fjz0NNqYPCCo8nyh6dz1Ze3h68T7o9vGWA%253B343%253B383%253BwttpOtjxlVrnSM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsabotagetimes.com%25252Flife%25252Fan-englishman-abroad%25252F&source=iu&usg=__4WOHaHAUYjerdJ-m7_deQ1Xo9nE%3D&sa=X&ei=1xzGU5nULtSY1AXboIH4DA&ved=0CDgQ9QEwCw&biw=1024&bih=639#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=S_S2bHcNz99ESM%253A%3BwttpOtjxlVrnSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sabotagetimes.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252Fbritish-bulldog.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fsabotagetimes.com%252Flife%252Fan-englishman-abroad%252F%3B343%3B383
Everyone that lives in Western Europe knows that here it is customary to shake someones hand and to look into their face, it symbolizes ”hello”, ”I respect you” ”lets talk”, if someone shakes your hand and looks to the ground youl ask yourself if hes rude, if someone is wearing a mask you will not even want to shake their hand because you cant see who the hell you are talking too, and thats the point of the full veil, its basically a censorship bar like from the old movies, I dont care if someone is Christian,Muslim, Hindu,Orisha, Atheist etc., but in the case of a foreign cultural & or religious tradition like the full veil we must say that this is a clear provocation because it goes against our European culture and values and the people who wish to wear this know this very well, they refuse to be sensitive to European culture but instead expect to impose their culture on European Societies and they do this with a unashamed arrogance, look I know usually we never thought about the face, but now that people want to dress up like ghosts we have come to realize how important the face really is in our Western Societies, ofcourse we want to respect other cultures, religions and traditions but if e.g a African was cutting a goats neck on the banks of the river Seine in a religious ritual I am sure the french public would have a problem with this(animal rights,cruelty against animals etc.), and the animal rights people in the Green party would have a big problem with that anyways, my point is not every thing from foreign cultures will fit in here 1to1 and if you wear a mask on your face you know exactly that you are doing something that doesnt fit in here, we have a right & a obligation to forbid this as it goes against our European culture and values. Make no mistake, the growing muslim population will bring up much more questions for Europa than some veil or a minarett, afterall these things are just symbols, the real issue that should concern us much more is the extremist views that many muslims carry within their minds, views which legitimize hatred towards jews,christians,gays etc., views which legitimize acts of violence even murder,terrorism and outright barbarism(beheadings,bombing etc.), ofcourse people will say it has nothing to do with islam, if that is so then how do you all explain the fact that over 100000jihadists constantly quote quran verses to legitimize their evil deeds?, are we to believe they are all blasphemers?, and lets just say for conversation that their actions are a pervesion of islam, wouldnt this be proof that islam needs to be reformed just like christians did with the reformation?, I am calling for all the legitimizations for intolerance and violence against christians,jews and other people which are in the quran,hadith and sunnah to be declared invalidated and or for them to be removed outright from these scriptures, shurely any muslim who claims islam is peace should have absolutely no problem with this, or does he/she have a need for intolerant and violent verses?!?
@S.K please read my answer to @Catherine Benning as it answers many of your points.
And besides that I would only like to reinforce that how people practice their religion in here matters. I haven’t seen this extremism happening in our countries. why ban act on such things now, directly like so without plausible reason? Lets get some Real Concrete arguments to do so before taking such an imposing stance.
@Darcy Brás Da Silva
You clearly do NOT fully comprehend the meaning of the word ‘brief’ old chap and too how to use “the indefinite” article correctly. Evidentially, it almost goes without saying [but I shall say it anyway] that you also appear to have trouble understanding the word ‘meticulous’.
BTW, your proposed ‘ban’ in response to what is merely a passive aggressive cultural sartorial idiosyncrasy is somewhat TOTALITARIAN – exactly what some people accuse some [a minority of fundamentalist] Muslims of being.
Quite simply, your proposed ‘ban’ is the weapon of the ‘blind’ and the ‘toothless’.
This website is a political hypocrisy, the amount of censorship can only be described as akin to North Korea. Although, I do notice thousands of Americans have to resort to comments on British newspapers to have their voices heard. We are bombarded with the US views on all our main big sellers, day and night. Darcy I have answered your posts to me several times.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10975242/Trojan-Horse-Leaked-report-reveals-aggressive-Islamist-agenda-in-Birmingham-schools.html
Anyway, lets see if this one is also banned for revealing what is really going on and that this entire situation and the danger brought to the citizens was and is caused by our politicians. Collectively.
In the absence of any explanation there are reasonable indications that if certain words appear in a post (foremost critical of the EU) a program might automatically block it with the remark “Your comment is awaiting moderation”- for ever! A la NSA/CSS.
Yes.
@Proactive:
Yes, and don’t I know it! The message is interminable. The paranoia of this brigade is as bad as those who have a mental disorder. How sad it is that such an intelligent and talented population as Europe has, they are led by imbeciles. George Orwell was so right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAeKX5n-5IE
I personally feel that the covering of a woman’s face for religious “freedom” is gender oppression and hate against women – because you certainly don’t see the men having do do it. As a woman who lives in Canada where women fought to become recognized as a “person” less then 100 years ago, I find the niqab and burqa extremely offensive, as it definitely hinders social interaction and completely takes the person’s identity away. One has to remember/learn the rest of the restrictions put on the female in this religion to confirm that it’s a gender thing. They are all brainwashed into thinking that this is religious freedom, but it’s not… it’s turning a person into a thing/property of the man – not to mention that it is a security risk and crimes have been done using face coverings to hide their identity. Sad shame if they don’t want to feel the wind in their face or the sun on their skin – but it should stop at covering the entire face as a woman’s face should not be “immoral”… it’s pretty damn terrible actually.
I dont get this idiology like personal freedom stuff anyway.We should just make “Realpolitik” beeing more pragmatic and think”what kind of society do we want?”,”how do we get there”.
Well if the answer is a mixed and multicultural then obviously we should just bann signs of segregation.The veil turns people into “the others”.Bann the vail and other aspects that separate ethnicities from each other and we have a better ,more integratet,multicultural society that want talk about “them” and “us” but about a bigger new “us” only.
People should be able to wear what they want – what will people want to ban next balaclavas, hats and scarves, a nuns habit – anything that hides the face?
I do agree that banning veils is a clear violation of religious freedom. However, the people for banning do make a good point of the veils being used to keep identities a secret, and that veils degrade the word “Socialism.” Honestly, I think that veils should be discouraged, but not banned.
THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.
It should definitely be banned. Islam poses the biggest threat to western countries and it is impossible to see who is hiding behind all that garb. If they are that passionate about Islam they should move to a Muslim country where they will undoubtedly feel more comfortable and able to integrate.
If we were in a good world I would say it’s okay to wear nikab *hiding the face * but I guess really for safety reasons it should be banned I guess but viel *just covering the hair and body should never be banned and I’m a muslim by the way
I’m in my 50s and all stories about robbers when I was growing up had them wearing something over their face so people of my generation automatically think of robbers when we see face covered and only eyes showing.
When we CCTV footage on TV of robberies often those committing the crime wear balaclavas over their faces to hide their identity: in our culture identity is your face, that’s how people know who you are, same in passport and on all photo ID such as driving licence.
But since my brain injury I have trouble with seeing faces and hair, at start couldn’t even recognise neighbours, much better now but still not right at all. So I now try to recognise/remember people (when I don’t forget) by looking at their teeth, body shape, distinguishing features, but this sometimes doesn’t work. But still, it’s mainly the face I look at.
In our culture we are used to reading (or trying to) people’s expressions, smiles, and what they mean or want us to see. We delight in seeing a laugh aswell as hearing it and often can tell the difference between a fake smile or laugh and a real one: mixture of sight and sound.
Since my brain injury my eyes and how I understand (or not!) what I see is worse and at start I had trouble with sounds and knowing what they were. My ears are more tuned to sound now I think because my eyes and visual understanding is poorer, maybe.
But in other cultures perhaps they are used to women covering their faces and use sound and body language to try to know what the woman is feeling? Or maybe women’s voices and feelings and facial expressions aren’t as important as men’s? I think very few men cover their faces, I think desert people do (history of veil?) against sand and sun. And those living in very cold areas (at the poles) cover their faces to protect against the cold.
So I think veils/fabric has been used, and still is, for protection from the elements which is very wise!
But in our culture brides traditionally wear a veil over the whole face (semi-transparent so she can see to walk), perhaps this is to signify that they belong to their husband = are their property, as was the case in law in europe in past times. The husband is allowed to raise the veil and kiss the bride and claim his property rights.
Humans find the semi-transparent covering of the human body and face more alluring than bare nudity. The temptation of what is beneath, the only part seen and one wonders at the rest, the truth in all its nakedness – or not if aided by make-up and plastic surgery!
Many people in our culture find normal naked bodies on display (for example on a naturist beach) disgusting and in the UK (and other countries) there are laws forbidding public nakedness except in particular designated areas.
Oddly in carnival the most usual area to cover is round the eyes with a mask that hides all except enough place to allow vision, the opposite (negative) of the veil almost. Carnival was (and is?) a special time when the rules were turned topsy turvy and what was usually forbidden became allowed just for a short time,not just tolerated but encouraged.
The Jester and the Fool were allowed to make fun of even the king, anybody else doing the same might be punished by beheading or torture. But it was their job to criticise and make fun of pomp and ceremony just as cartoonists (and others) do today. They wore ‘motley’ = bright coloured garb as a uniform for the job they did.
Is the veil a uniform for women? Do they truly choose to wear it? Are they conforming to an ideal as so many of us try to? What exactly is choice? None of us really have free will or enough info to choose anything without being persuaded by others and having our own bias about what we feel comfortable wearing. For many the outward show is more important than comfort: we all make statements by what we wear, how we cut our hair,the shoes we wear and so on, is the veil any different, a visual form of speech,of our identity?
But those wearing motorcycle helmets are asked to remove them (in the UK) going into a bank. Are those who wear a veil asked to remove it? If we decide identity from our faces what about identical twins or sometimes sisters or brothers who look very similar? What exactly is identity and how easy is it to put on a mask even when we do not wear a veil?
I was asked to use my fingertip to sign an ipad the other day but I felt uncomfortable doing so:my fingerprints. Silly me: they are on everything I own and touch wherever I go and can be easily lifted, a cast made then a rubberised version and transferred to anything. This could then be used as ‘evidence’ against me and would stand up to scrutiny in court as part of judging me.
DNA out of the body degrades over time and even the DNA in or own bodies (I think?) can be degraded and change during our lifetimes depending on how much nuclear radiation and other toxins we’ve been exposed to. Or am I wrong in that?
What I’m trying to say (but sorry, going off in all directions) is we must look at why we feel what we do when we see a person (usually a woman) covering her face when it is neither very warm nor very cold. Let’s examine ourselves and our beliefs, opinions, outside pressures, and expectations and talk to the women themselves, ask about their beliefs, outside pressures, opinions before we judge them.
Me? Instinctively I don’t like anyone (male or female) covering their face, I prefer openness. I used to remove my very dark sunglasses (That I wore in summer before my brain injury) when speaking to people because I felt they weren’t getting ME and I liked it when others removed theirs to talk to me. I don’t like police wearing shiny dark or mirror sunglasses, to me it feels threatening!
I remember a moslem man who came to stay with me to learn english. He was young and this was his first visit to a western country and he was shocked and astonished at what he saw. He thought if people were walking down the street holding hands they were married. He picked up a prostitute’s card from a phone box and called her,I don’t think they met but I’m not sure, he had b=never heard of such a thing although I’m sure prostitutes existed in his own country but were (are?) more hidden and less accepted. He was amazed to see women in bikinis and even topless on a beach! All these things are now ‘normal’ to us but it wasn’t always so.
When I asked this young saudi man about how women were treated, the veil and the rules he told me that it was because they were so precious and valued. The way he said it was delightful and charming but I thought: owned and controlled. Some people hide what they value others flaunt it. Some share their possessions and others hide theirs.
I think we would probably more easily accept face veils if their husbands and other men from their culture also wore them because in our culture we believe men and women are equal which is silly because although the law says we are that is certainly not the reality!
All too tricky for me but I’d say wear what you want and if really necessary to remove helmets and veils for banks (how big is the risk?!) then all must do the same. Or not? Exceptions tothe rules? Nobody should ask ME things like this because I try to see all sides and can’t come to a conclusion! Maybe the fewer rules the better but how to decide when a rule is really needed, proportionate to its aim, created by whom and for what purpose and what the exceptions are?
See, all those words (and will have forgotten lots I’d want to put) and no real answer, sorry!
Totally agree with french law. I rember studying this case at university.
It is very simple: every individual should be identifiable when in public space. In Belgium it is even forbidden to walk over the street with a carnival mask on (except when it is carnival). As a burka makes you unidentifiable (and a lot of people make abuse of this!), it is forbidden, whatever religion it is linked to.
Banned of course . Europe was built with christian tradition . Maybe when we can walk naked in saudi arabia !
That’s a very difficult question, if i visit a muslim country i will have to respect their laws and dress accordingly. Despite the fact that their laws violate my own freedoms. Shouldn;t there be similar respect and adjustment by the muslims to Europe’s standards ? I think yes, veil should be banned in EU.
Yes,of course it should be banned.
The ban of burqa won’t violate the religious freedoms rights ’cause it won’t change the believes of muslims,it will only liberate women.
I don’t understand why they wear the ninja outfit. You can dress modest without all that.
It should be banned not only because of Christian traditions of Europe, but the danger of terrorism! Many terrorists got away from Europe with dressing like women and false identities, which is easy to buy in most of Muslim countries! Just ask UK officials how many men terrorists run away after 2001 in Muslim women’s dressing…
It should be banned!
Yes it should! The same way EU ladies / girls can’t use mini skirt in an Muslim country, not only they can’t use that but the majority of the fashion clothing
of course it should be!
The existence of Islamic faith should be as respected as all other religions. However, like Christianity has evolved with society, so should Islamism. I don’t see european Christians or Jews and on…killing other people for their faith, or disregarding laws because they don’t fit on their religions philosophies. All Islamic leaders need to gather and define a basic and universal interpretation of Quran in order to end all this suffering. But they don’t yet seem committed to any clear intention of peace achievement. And yes the veil thing should come to an end, for many reasons… one being security. Beneath a clothing many things can hide.
Try walking around town, entering Town Hall, a bank, the BCE with a full motorcycle helmet on because you ARE a biker, or a ski mask because it’s cold, or a Batman suit because you are returning from a party, or fighting crime, and see what happens ie how our legislatures, politicians, bankers, fonctionnaires in said institutions feel and react.
It really doesn’t matter to me, but I wonder what they are hiding from…
Yes… It should be banned!
Yes, religious freedom is important, but the burqa should be banned!
should be banned
This debate is a distraction. It is a symbolical law targeting a minority. Rather than fighting the root of the problem and educating, we prohibit. Don’t get me wrong, I would like to see no burka and no religious dogma in the all world but this kind of measure alters the disconnection we need so much for enligthment.
Yes, of course ir should be banned.
Banned
Just one point. Religion right and freedom of expression are very different. Specially according to some religious people’s attitude.
Stop Discrimination & Stigmatisation debatingeurope.eu ! There are 3 mono religions in the world, they all have the right to live everywhere, like you…
EU=Racist construction
Ban the face veil!
The veil actually has nothing to do with religion. It’s cultural attire.
It is not what you wear but the way you wear it.
yes it should be banned…..
So we are fine w/ men dressing as women & putting their tongues in each other mouths in public but women who wish to adhere to their religious tenets such as post matrimony modesty are not permitted ??
This is about fear – not clothes
If this law applies for the policemen as well, yes.
This idea is ridiculous. Why is it that islamophobic debate seems to surface every time there’s some sort of trouble with the economy. Why don’t we fix that instead of disgracing ourselves with non-issues?
absolutely
Yes definitely!
Yes. The face is a fundamental characteristic of the person. If they don’t want to show their faces, let them live in their homes.
yes and for the policemen
Even nuns wear a veil, so muslims should be able to wear it.
The nuns veil does not cover their face!
European social relations are based upon seeing the other persons face!
This is Europe! Respect our culture and laws, do NOT come and impose upon us your culture and laws!
Fit in or get out!
the French law for me is right . I am french and the law says that for security reason in any public building like schools, post office , municipe nobody can enter with covered face . You can’t enter wearing a motorcycle helmet or a balaclava . My face has to be recognizable.We live in a secular state , religion its a private thing.
@ Max Berre….is this a non issue? Hope some day a veil clad islamist moron takes a shot at you…..hehe I wonder if you are still alive to tell the tale whether you will be able to recognize who shot you. For you and other leftist liberal jerks like you this is a non issue…..well you are non entities!
Yes. I am sure most of that womens are not happy with them, but they are forced to weare it.
live and let live, I say. People were happy to say “I stand for free speech” when charlie hebdo happened. and now…this again? Europeans should decide. do they stand for free expression, or don’t they. (or do they only stand for it when there isn’t a muslim involved somewhere)
Yes it should.
Ban it!
So Margaret, Does religious expression dictate if one will shoot at someone?
You hope someone shoots at someone else, because your opinion is not the opinion of another? Epic Fail!
I am not French, but I do agree with you Elisabeth Di Cesare.
Yes please, we obey the Muslim low ,when we are in a Muslim country, the Muslim must obey the low in country they residence. Europe. US, Australia,,e.t.c…..
Ban!
Yes! 100%!!! No doubt about it!!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=799661513461690&fref=nf
Freedom of Religion!
I think that, when we are in a pubblic area, we shouldn’t be able to hide our face. Not for religious matters but just for security matters. However i think it’s really sad for someone to wear a face veil…
Religion is a private matter, thus, in any public work environment, all religious symbols must be banned. Whatever anyone else does in the private life is an individual matter. It is not religious discrimination as Europe is secular, and, anyone not liking Europe the way it is can freely move to a religious country. We built this great and amazing continent based upon the values of science, rationality, and solidarity, I will be damned if we give up to religious fundamentalism once again as in the medieval age of darkness.
what kind of religion needs the right and the freedom when doesn’t respect the right of women ?
Of course not, one should be free to wear whatever he/she wants. It is not about religion freedom, it is about freedom itself!
Freedom of religion and expression is above all
Yes! Absolutely!
Why don’t we ask the women who have to wear them in societies where it works as deterring harrasment?
Ban not because of religion but due to security reasons
Let me ask this. If you were living in an arabian nation that imposes all females covering themselves from head to toe, would you think it is wise to not follow their law ? Those of Europe should not be imposed by other non european nation when in Europe as we have no right to go against the laws when living in an Arabian Nation. Like the saying goes : When in Rome do as the Romans Do :)
yes
Ofcourse it should not be banned. How is one supposed to feel socially included, and feel free to interact if the State prohibits her from dressing the way she feels comfortable and therefore able to interact?! We should be able to embrace the fact that someone is different and include them the way the are.
And if she’s not interacting with the veil, then that might have to do with the fact that she does not want to, or she has been prohibited from doing by her family or something else. Prohibiting the nijab won’t change that. That is a completely other matter.
The nijab is not something that is hurtful to the woman, such as FGM, in order to be completely prohibited. As such, in my opinion, this should have been dealt with by the Court as a matter of religious freedom.
I also don’t think it’s a matter of safety!! That is pure Islamophibia and an unacceptable generalisation. In that light, should long coats be prohibited as well because someone might be hiding a bomb?!
No, I don’t think so, I find it a highly elegant clothing and custom. What should be banned are the girls who dress like slags that look too much like prostitutes they like to reveal their behinds and they often wear low tops too making tattoos around their privates, the typical type of low class British or American porn culture, these are the ones who should be banned from the streets, they make Britain look cheap and they spread their perverted diseases.
That’s a mask.It should be not allowed.
It is a violation of freedom of religion. Maybe there should be an approved way that covers only the hair not a ban though.
Y eau
When we go to their country we are obliged to wear the Vail even though it is not our religion, so when they come to our county they should remove the Vail to fit in with us.
Ban it!
Yes, no islam followers should be anonymous.
Yes.
Yes, it should be banned.
It’s funny how some of you are talking about freedom but are agreeing to take away someone’s freedom to choose how to dress.
JESUS CHRIST = The fundamental right to freedom.
In public places yes. In their household they can wear what ever they want
It should not be banned but in buildings of special public interest as banks, schools etc there should be some kind of compromise revealing enough of the face for security reasons. And really did not expect such xenophobia from EU citizens. Its a shame… Was the face of Andres Bervik recogniseable when he took away all those lives in Norway or was the face of the pilot of Germanwings covered? You guys are ridiculous….
Ban.
Yes
Maybe it’s not a right to freedom of religion, but freedom to occultation or hiding. Definitely, it should be banned. The right to freedom applies to the other citizens, too.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/phyllis-chesler/terrorists-in-drag-bombs-beneath-the-burqa/
Haven’t the Courts already answered that question?
Yess banned plzz
No the face veil should not be banned across the EU, this would violate the fundamental rights to freedom of religion and expression.
YES
You are asking that question but we don’t know what is the truth about this problem. People don’t tell the truth because they don’t want to be called racists . There is no research on this problem and no institution is going to publish research on this problem but on the other side we have rise of radical parties like Front National (FN). Why ? Why so many voters vote for radical parties like Front National (FN)? What is the problem , also it exists but no institution wants to talk about it . Is this the truth and the main reason for rise of radical parties ? Because of religion some Muslims think that Norwegian women are like prostitutes but Norwegian women tell that they rape them . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmQ49DztFC4&list=PL588D7D5968A3E40D
Legally speaking freedom of expression means getting stuff out. The veil keeps things in so it doesn’t count as freedom of expression. However in Islam the veil is considered a form of expression of a woman’s freedom to walk around without having the lustful eyes of men on her body which is considered sacred to her family and husband. So there you go, 2 cosmotheories against one another. As far as terrorism goes I agree that the veil should not be worn in public spaces of high security importance. However a person should be able to wear whatever he/she wants as long as the clothing does not go against the protocol of the space it inhabits.
??? How about Topless like ~ 1800 B.Christ in MINOAN Civilization,Crete,Knossos….??
YES!! France has already banned it, the veil is disturbing and scary
Anyone can practice their own religion in Europe, but you need firstly to respect the society you live in and integrate. The veil just does the opposite
The problem is not what they put ON their heads, the problem is on the ideology they allow inside their brains.
Yes, without any exception. This is Europe, not North Africa or the Middle East.
So, democracy u say! More like democrazy. If a woman is free to walk in bikini, why can’t she be free to cover herself?
We have our culture here and people have to comply, the same way we do when we go abroad.
The veil should not be banned providing the face would not be covered.Both the freedom of religion rights and european rights would be respected.Total face hiding is not compatible to our civil rights.
Charles Battaglini
No garbage couture please
Jorge CP Prez
This is what Jesus taught us. Women must cover every part of their body. That is what Taliban does, they are following Jesus, that is why they are unbeatable because Jesus with them.
Ban it!
It is a pathetic, preposterous, male supremacist medieval practice! Period!
Have you ever been to the middle east? The sun starts to scorch “everything under the sun” by mid-morning. It relents a bit after sunset. Men are clad in white tunics, rather open around the neck, pretty much adapted to the climate. Women must wear back, from head to toe, faces covered, not a breath of fresh air circulates under those hideous veiled garments. If you do not believe this try wearing one.
And this is called religious expression? How about “woman bashing”? How about “male dominance” and “male supremacy”? Religious expression? What kind of god determines that women must suffer the heat of the day while men strut their stuff in fresh white satin? Give me a break!
And if the so called “religious community” does not like the banning, then make it mandatory that for every woman who “has to” wear a veil, there must be a man in the family who “has to” wear one exactly like it too. See how they react.
And both have to be submitted to police searches at every suspicious move.
See how that sticks among these male chauvinistic religiously free mentalities.
There are two options. Either ban all headwears not allowing identification or allow all of them for whatever reason they are worn. In secular society, religion shouldn’t be privileged above other reasons as other reasons shouldn’t be privileged above religion.
People talking about our ‘culture’ our culture is based upon freedom, liberty and expression! There’s no justification except simple bigotry for banning religious clothing.
Yes. This is not freedom of religion, this is freedom of women’s enslavement and exploitation.
Ban
-“Wear the face veil!!” -Take off the face veil!!!”
…
“I’d prefer to decide it myself…”
http://blogs.20minutos.es/eneko/files/10-04-23velo.jpg
Ban.
yes
Ban cos its not just the veil, they are building parallel society and do not integrate
YES!
For safety and security reasons, yes.
It should bebanned. Y do they oblige Europeans to live according their rules if u go to islamic state? Then they should live according our rules in Europe, its straightforward.
No place for religions in Freedom Europe ! Science, not religion, this is the truth…
I think there are enough laws in Europe which forbid to cover the face in public areas, therefore these laws should be applied and no new laws are necessary.
YES! Because it causes difficulties in identification. So it violates the others right to safety and protection!
security comes before any religion
For the best of me I cannot tell what this ban is supposed to achive.
Yes. The face is a fundamental characteristic of the person’s identity. If they don’t want to show their faces, let them live in their homes , i am not a french but i support that law
Yes it should be banned. Headscarf is fine example no problem with that for reasons of security and safety is good enough reason
Its complicated!Its intolerant to say BAN without the cons and pros being debated.The rights of the muslims must be looked into as well as security concerns if one only reveals his or her both eyes on the streets or any other public place.The islamic folks felt or feels always being depreived of their religious doctrines and faith by the western world.This gives rise to extremism and anger and this breeds terrorism and hate of other religions and some times race.More actions that could give birth to these should be avoided at least for now.The conditions in most islamic states are deplorable and calls for actions to help the innocent christians that are being slaughtered on daily basis.Fact remains an action in europe or any part of the world that seems to directly affect the muslims,will yield a nagative fruit in islamic dominated states world wide.France did that,how far has it helped security wise?or bring down the number of young french people that voluntrarily joined ISIS?A legislation that terms to potray religious intolerance must be deeply considered before being passed.
Yes, ban it.
Yes, for security reasons only. Religion can be expressed in other ways than hiding your face!
Sim devia
BANNED that’s for sure… different country different rules… and if this violets any religion just DON’T move to EUROPE.
I have NO problem with any religions nor do I have a problem with the way citizens are dressed in their origin country…BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM TO SEE COVERED PEOPLE WALKING AROUND IN CIVILISED COUNTRIES INSIDE EUROPE !!!
Yes….women are not animals or rats to be hide.
By banning women’s freedom to wear whatever they want, you’re just as bad as those who force women to wear it. As progressive Europeans, we should be open to ensuring the freedom of choice is universal on our continent, and not restrict people!
To cover the head is respectable but the face is A shame because there are WOMEN…so they can…rape her. Its better to create human lows between them than.. god’s low to rape and beheaded humans
Yes, it should be banned, or else everyone should be allowed to wear a mask.
Hello everyone. I have read the article and some of the comments and, honestly, there are things I can not comprehend. We, Europeans, are so evolved, campaign for social equality and human rights for so long that, I don’t see how we are doing so by imposing our social rules on a religious matter. What role does the veil ban play on security? Is this about terrorism? I will remind you that IRA and Spanish ETA never wore any veils and yet, they terrorised. How can one expect this veil ban to be “(…) a way to include everybody equally within an open society (…)” when one side is already being repressed??
I say allow them to wear it. It is in their right to do so. Let’s practice what we preach.
We can’t let this thing in a open-mind state like Europe. Absolutly banned
Yes ban
Of course it should. It’s a violation of the rights of women.
Ban it
YES, it does not belong to our culture and can’t be imposed for who needs come for Europe.
Ban! Complete ban!
BANNED!!!! They chose Europe they conform to European way of life NOT the other way round.
Claudia Rodrigues you are absolutely NOT right..
Go and visit Kuwait or Iraq or Afghanistan (and many other countries) as a woman and walk around as you would do in Europe…
don’t reply to this post before you have been in one of these countries to find out that they DON’T care where are you from they just will force you to wear what you have to wear according to the countries “Law” “Rules” or “Tradition”
No..it should be part of ‘fashion hair accessories’ as the rest of accesories as I think it is a very intresting outfit, so do the person who wear it.. behind it …I think it is going to be the next fashion item for the next sesson!! in many hot countries people wearing it …….people that can not handle with very hot weather and sunlights !! I am sure some cultures addapted it in they own way of ‘Religion and Cultural needs in more use of it ‘ ;)
Why should anything be banned? Anyone should be able to dress the way they like. We should be an example for less free societies, not the other way around.
Then there are the veiled nuns and the robe wearing monks. Is that expression or requisite ordination by another power? Leather masks and restraints are freedom of expression for some.
I would vote for Starship Enterprise uniforms for everyone. Those skin tight rompers would level the playing field!
if you would respect you have to respect anoder culture, when you go to anoder home you have to respect the use of the home
If you can go to their country and dress as European, it’s okay.
Ban ban ban!!!!
In the public space, the some individual rights have limits. This case is a good one.
Lets take them off UNLESS nuns take them off as well..
Yes, In the public.
Ban it!
I agree that people whose religion Muslim and living in or visiting a Catholic country are refused hide his face, so as they force us to use or cover our women’s head when we step on their countries, not only out of respect for our cults but for safety.
Ban it.
Ban it. Safety should be above all. You never know who is hiding behind that.
Immediate ban.
How much do I feel europian? personaly in my family not using the viel, which is to hide the face! but also personaly against it because it is more tradition than religion thing. but the head scarf is personal choice and do not impose your way on other cause freedom is above what you personaly like or hate. Let them work, Let them pass, if I missed correct me, this was the first ever call for freedom in EUROPE.
I believe freedom would be hurt with such ban…
Yes.
Yes, it should. A violation of freedom is close to the refuse of integrational attitudes in the socio-environment where you chose to live when you have to interact with the community that welcomes you. When some decide to keep a behaviour that instead of gathering cultures, creates ghettos. And, some how, should also be considered a violation of freedom the fact of being unable to see or recognize a citizan’s face on the her duties. It’s not about religion, nor cultural traditions. It’s not about refusing other ways of understanding the world and women’s rule on it. It’s just about intregration practices on societies where such habits just don’t have place.
BAN IT!
If they want to be in Europe they must obey and respect our laws, the way we respect theirs when we go to muslim countries!
I dont hear about european countries forbiding the constructions of mosques, the same way most muslim countries forbid the construction of churches!
Basically, our continent our rules, if you’re not happy, feel free to return to your countries.
yes
YES
Ban immediately.
a DEFINITE YES. AUSTRALIA IS FIGHTING ISLAMIZATION THIS WEEK.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Reclaim-Australia-Rally-Australia-wide/762398587169729
Veil permitted but only covering hair and neck… not covering face. Burqa to ban totally
If I can go with mask in the bank they can go in the bank with their masks also. I can’t do that for security reasons that I understand well so the answer is YES full facial religious wear should be banned. The issues needs to be resolved because as we already saw the burqas are used to hide escaping fugitives as in the London case few months back.
Banned!
!!!!! Did You resolve all European issues already?!
Yes. And not only in the EU but in the rest of the world.
No! Not our business on how people dress! Europe is a union of acceptance and diversity! No to racism & Yes to religious freedom and expression! By the way I am a Christian!
Yes!!!It should and will NOT violate any wright of religion,all citizens should have their face shown and available to be identified to anyone.
Ban ban ban!!!
BAN ISLAM
Yes
ban it if you want, but not for my nanny Birkhild-Waltrun: she is an ugly prick and I don’t want to see that all day long.
For me it doesn’t have anything to do with culture, just a matter of security. No face coverd.
Banned! Of course it should. People shouldn’t forget their original culture but if they want to be integrated into European culture, then they should start to respect European culture.
Yes, as well as cups, scarfs and halloween masks.
Banned.
as long as they promote sharia!!!
Banned
Of course IT SHOULD. YES !
If they come to Europe they must respect our rules and way of life. Not be encouraged to fundamentalism and repressing women as inferior creatures.
Thats the purpose of the vail, right ?!
yes .
YES, it should be banned. Firstly because it hides the body language, leading so to mistrust and secondly because it works against the freedom all persons within EU enjoy.
BAN !
BAN !
Poor women coming to Europe to face freedom, but they have to hide their faces due to “freedom of religion” and the “long arm” of their religion within Europe! That has nothing to to with rights!
si
Face veil is not an obligation is islam, and is more related to local costumes. Anyway, the human rights are above any religious costumes, so, the answer is very logic and simple.
When respect God we respect every religion and free expression…
I think that it would not be disrespectful towards their religion and I personally think that burqa itself makes women subservient to men and ? think if it would be banned it would be better for security issues
I am in favour of total ban in Europe until european women can travel to Saudi Arabia, Iran or Yemen dressed as europeans.
Yes, it should be banned
I would like to know for what companies our politicians work for. Is it so anoying for you that repeat the same question every month?… I want to know who finances ISIS.. where the petrol goes.. where the antiquities goes!… why they kill other muslims… i dont trust usa neither EU.. to many lies.
Any acton leading to violation of human or civil rights (among others) should not be tolerated just because it is masqueraded under the doctrines of any religion or other arbitrary/non scientific belief. I trust that the European organized cociety has reached higher levels both of civilization in general and humanitarian understanding, than religions.
yes, it should.
Why? I’m a ninja
i do no want to wear a veil! i like to be free to show my face.
Ban it. It is a symbol of female subservience.
Der europische Islam kam immer ohne Schleier aus. Kann also auch so bleiben.
Yes
Yes definite
looks like they’re to cheep to buy makeup . or shampoo
That’s crazy ! How do you respect people’s rights by not allowing them to practice their faith habits ? This is not an issue to be debated, period !
It’s better that way than changing your face through plastic chirurgy. At least the veil is removable – why wont you debate the banning of sex change ? Is that ok in a normal society ?
Din ikupjat lilek Marvic Mifsud Taylor ..lol
Has to be banned. People not accepting it can go some other where.
Si!, Solo es mostrar el rostro, lo que nos hace libres!
As women right watch it should banned cuse it stand for suppression
yes
Most definitely!! As per the late great Christopher Hitchens: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/05/in_your_face.html
One should abolish the face Veil. If you are in Rome do as the Romans as the saying goes. I have seen a man dressed with the burka. What was he hiding. When we are in their country we repect there ways. They should respect ours.
Yes! In Europe, it goes against our values to suprees any type of free expression or gender. European Women are FREE in every sense of the world, therefore, something like a veil, burqa or anything that forces women to conceal their face, hair and any other part of the body, should definitely be abolished in the EU. And like someone has already wrote: In rome be roman, or in the case in Europe be European; just like the europeans, especially women are forced abide by the societal rules, when they go abroad to countries where women need to use veils. As simple as that! ;)
Can i go to banks wearing a mask,a balaclava or a crashelmet? No then why should they?
yes
Yes
That’s a very interesting subject.
I think it should for one fundamental reason:
In the Arab countries it is mandatory for foreigneirs to respect their traditions, manners and way of life.
So bearing this in mind, as an European I can ask people outside Europe to respect us in the same way.
Plus it is difficult to identify a person with such an outfit.
Yes, it should be banned.
Yes totally. Banned.
Yes: Burka
No: Veil, Scarfs etc.
I think the two things are very different and also represent different things for me. While veils are very common and also worn by modern and emancipated women – by their on will, a Burka is something a woman is often forced to wear and which is more linked to a society that disrespects women than to the Muslim culture and faith – at least in my opinion.
Women like Malala for example do wear scarfs or many girls at my university a veil and they are perfectly fine with it and see it a symbol of their religion or something “stylish”. These women often decided for themselves to dress like they do and would feel uncomfortable otherwise. I think this should be respected we Western countries.
The Burka is a completely different thing for me and I also cannot share any experience because I never had the chance to talk to a woman wearing one. I only see them in the streets or at the airport, with a husband dressed in shorts and sneakers not talking to anyone…I think that says it all
I think every religious symbol, of every religion, should be banned in public places, to strengthen the laicist character of our Europe. In private places, on the contrary, everyone can do whatever he/she likes.
banned
Should be banned. It is a security risk and clashes with European values. Islam as a whole should be banned in the EU.
This was settled 2000 years ago: “When in Rome, act like a Roman”.
Banned. If they want to cover their faces for whatever reason then they should stay in their own countries and continue practicing that faith. Here in Canada we have freedom but we must also respect one another. When I can’t see the other persons face that is disrespectful. It scares me. It makes me feel like they are hiding something. I don’t know but I’m surprised that Canada hasn’t banned that kind of practice here.
Why do muslim men not wear burqa or hiqab? This is a violence against muslim women and a discrimination. The muslims are free to go to the mosques, but in the Europe they ought to keep European traditions.
Never for ugly girls..
When I travel to Muslim countries, I have to respect there religious and cultural views and cover up as a woman. Only fair if they visit western countries they respect our culture and dress code. I believe the UK should ban face veils. After an attempted kidnapping of a child by someone wearing a burka. It has caused uproar of people accusing it was a Muslim woman. But how do you know???
YES. face veils are a sign of unwillingness to integrate in Europe, reflects extremism and is not compatible with European values. This goes beyond the aspect of tolerance, but is a clear sign of utter contempt for our cultures and society.
Yes
This is so stupid. We have tons of rules anti terrorism, then we allow such women to go around being unrecognizable…
No, it is not the states role to dictate what people can or cannot wear.
Maybe I disagree with the idea of veils, but I think it’s definately a part of the way some people express themselves and for me freedom of expression is one of the most important European values…
Yes
Yes for public security reasons, otherwise anyone can just cover their faces with any kind of mask or something similar alleging personal or religious reasons.
This situation would be make it impossible to manage and control the safety of 21st century mega cities.
Yes
there is nothing to debate. undr anti terrorism laws the FACE should not be hidded. If they do not like it. tough there is a flight back to their country of origin.
YES!
yes
of course.
It scares me seeing people like that,wearing veils because i don’t see the person under it.When you are in a foreign country you should obey the rules.The people of the country won’t change……………you are.If it’s difficult don’t go to the country.As for religious signs,every country has it’s own and should be respected.There are European countries that are more religious and others that are not. We are orthodox and whoever likes it.If they don’t, don’t come to our country.Noone invited you.
Yes, not for religious matters but for practical reasons.
No, shouldn’t we respect each other’s religion?
If I go to countries that wear vail I have to cover up my body
So let it work both ways.
I have to do.
Wen in rome do as the Romans do.
Religion should not mean you are given special privileges as is.
I your eyes
Yes!!!!
.
Oh look, terrorist’s don’t seem to wear face vail’s, will you ban balaclava’s as well ?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/13/video-undefined-24AC84D300000578-335_638x362.jpg
Yes!
YES.
Religious signes should be allowed only in religious places and provate homes
Yes.
.
Is there to be a list of acceptable clothing for the EU ‘Citezen’ & when do you plan to start the book burning in your new ‘European’ order ?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/02/xin_07120102235928655626.jpg
YES,!,!
All religious symbols should be prohibited in public. No discrimination.
yes, !!!
OF COURSE!
I don’t wanna see pac-man ghosts around. That’s it. Then they can dress like a banana but the fucking face must be visible simply for safety reason. If they wanna look like ghosts they are welcome back in their own nations. Try to go to Beirut with the borat slip and you d get shot in no time.
Try being polite in future.
Yes
Why are you obsessed with ‘banning things across Europe’ , are you not aware your EU is ‘NOT’ a Nation State ?
Did you know that Albania, Kosovo, parts of Bosnia and Herzegovina, parts of Bulgaria, Montenegro and Macedonia are all Muslim-majority regions of Europe, what happened to your lie of “United in diversity” ?
And you people wonder why we are leaving your antidemocratic EU.
They should be allowed to wear the veil BUT for security reasons not entire burkas. Normal blouses and trousers .
No, it doesn’t harm anybody, only people who irrationally fear muslims.
It’s a matter of trust
YES
.
“How far should states be “allowed” ?!
What the hell does your EU think it is, you do not have your European Empire yet you know lol
http://www.toonpool.com/user/17453/files/evil_2126475.jpg
Yes…Europe is not Afghanistan and Woman, in Europe, are free!
I’m very liberal BUT….
Not knowing who is behind a hoodie or anything that covers a face makes me feel uncomfortable…. I respect different cultures as long as they do not harm animals & something of this sort. BAN BURKA
Yes if it create problem for our security . OK , I think any kind of veil in public like this , not just religious : http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Serbia-Italy-EURO-2012-Riot10.jpg
YES, it should be banned!
Will be trendy soon…
Chador with visible face = permitted. Burqa or any other similar veil which cover face and doesn’t let to identify the person who dress it = banned
Yes! Who disagree should just go back to a country where that’s normal..
.
Reading the comment’s on here it is obvious all ‘Europeans’ are racists.
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialNOtoEU/photos/pb.891615804230125.-2207520000.1438329431./900046256720413/?type=3&theater
Yes in a word! No problem with head covering but visible faces please.
Yes!
Freedom of expression and religion are the answer, so state should not interfere there except when when an exception occurs – for instance a police officer should not wear a burkha. We are talking about human rights.
Of course, This is a Very stupid act
Yes
.
Will you ban this to ?
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warehouse-13-artifact-database/images/0/0c/Guy_fawkes_mask.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140408004142
Leave the decision to nation states. Why this obsession with having EU-wide rules on cultural norms?
what bothers me it is that the “niqub issue” concerns women only! men do not wear that, not even its lightest version!! Would the debate be the same if both sexes were concerned?
.EU schould ban the financial terrorists. Tht´s our real problem
Oh yes ! they don’t like it they go back ! Enough is enough .
YES
Where does it say in their religion that women have to be all covered up? Fascism is the real problem. Whether in Europe with the form that we know or in the Middle East with women all covered up etc
No!
Why aren t men all covered up like women? I would like to see them all covered up but their eyes. Fascism!
Absolutely
Absolutly!
No. Prioritizing security over freedom makes us end up in a police state. When these are in conflict freedom should prevail.
Obviously officials can demand to uncover oneself upon reasonable request. Like identification at customs. An ex ante ban however, is an absolute interference in someone’s freedom and therefore absolutely wrong.
Yes…I do not see the meaning of having it.
yes
Yes!!! Wearing burca and other types of veils especially in summer under 37-42 Celsius, it’s really brutal treatment against women
States have no reasons to prohibit religious signs in public spaces!
Especially it would be against the Article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights: “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance”.
Islam as a whole should be banned in Europe. Has no place in our modern culture. It is oppressive, homophobic, promotes violence, misogynist, xenophobic, totalitarian and intolerant. It is todays nazism. And specially burkas should be banned as a security risk. You know, I am going to get flamed for this. But really, all I ask for is the same treatment christianity receives in Saudi Arabia, banned!
We should be allowed to wear everything we wanted, but since the veil is imposed by religion and culture beliefs, it should be banned.
Yes
Far!
Yes
Yes our civilization can’t stay in the dark …the dark age was over for Europe and religion is the darkness
People should not have the right to cover themselves from head to two in black cloth. That’s not a society I want to live in. I am seeing it more and more.
Yes
Face vail is not Europe. Who wants it must move out.
YES!! About fucking time!!! Face covering has no place in humanity and it should be banned world wide!!
While I know that Europeans on the internet love irrationally hating on muslims…. I would aactually say that ALL people should have freedom of expression, no matter what their color or creed is….and not matter how deep European bigotry goes.
This whole idea that that free speech is somehow reserved for certain types of speech…or only for whites, is frankly unacceptable. Sure, europeans can say “I am charlie”, when speech they like get threatened. But where is charlie now that others want to use their freedom of expression?
Yes
Islam: A Christian Heresy Posing as a Post Christian Religion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVqi11z4G7g
Yes – without any doubt.
Enough is enough.
We human being are all the same, because we are God’s kids, so we are supposed to love each other and not to hate each other. Nice day to all of you!
How far should states be allowed to go in prohibiting religious signs in public spaces? – Religious signs are crosses, images of saints, monuments, and those are one thing. Face veils are masks. Not religious signs. If they were religious signs they would be worn by men and children also. Let us not confuse the issue.
Should the face veil be banned across the EU? – Yes, ban them. As a citizen am I allowed to walk around in public wearing a mask? Or am I allowed to drive around in a “passe montagne”? No! Same with face veils.
Consistency please. Besides face veils may have made sense IF and only IF ALL people, men, women and children would wear them.
Face veils are NOT religious symbols. They are male supremacist objects! Let us call a spade a spade.
Yes, as we do know know what’s underneath
How far should states be allowed to go in prohibiting religious signs in public spaces?
– Religious signs are crosses, images of saints, monuments, amulets, and those are one thing. Face veils are masks! NOT religious signs. If they were religious signs they would be worn by men and children also. Let us not confuse the issue.
Should the face veil be banned across the EU?
– Yes, ban them. As a citizen I am not allowed to walk around in public wearing a face mask. Am I? Or neither am I allowed to drive around in a “passe montagne”? No! Same with face veils. They are masks!
Consistency please. Besides, face veils may have made sense IF and only IF ALL people, men, women and children would wear them.
Face veils are NOT religious symbols. They are male supremacist objects!
Let us call a spade a spade.
ban ban ban – does it ever help with anything? so, the answer is CLEARLY NOT!
If i want to wear a face veil, i must have the right to do so. I dont see a situation i would like to, but if. Maybe a party costume, skin problem, or just walking, who knows what. I want to decide what clothes i wear.
When in Rome do as the Romans when in Syria do as the Syrian –
Yes. Of course.
Yes
I don’t see the face veil as a religious sign. I am a Christian and I could wear it because some are só beautiful…
Yes
safety issues
Leave the people alone, let them wear what they want, it’s their own problem. It’s like banning jeans, are you insane? Is that what bothers you? That people choose to wear a different hat than you?
Yes. It should be banned.
It’s not a matter of religion. It’s a matter of public security and women dignity.
Yes, because face veil makes it harder to identify people and might be used by robbers and other criminals in the same way they use motorcycle helmets today (helmets should be made transparent). Anything that hides the human face should be banned.
YES !!! If they want their veil they should stay in their country.
YES!!!…
Qual o motivo porque nós, nos países islâmicos, respeitamos os seus usos e costumes, e eles não respeitam os nossos.
I can feel lot of hate in this question
Yes
Yes.
Europe is Europe with all advantages and disavantages it has. When in Europe face veil should not be used. If ypu cannot go without the veil stay at home, don’t go out.
Face veil, definitly. It comes down to security and, really, tradition and culture. For starters, one can’t be asked to deal in the bank with someone whose face you can’t see. If you work at a kindergarden, will you allow a child in your charge to leave with someone whom you can’t properly identify? The list goes on… And yes, we are a visual culture. We feel safe in the knowledge that we can look someone in the eyes and see their whole face while we interact – why should we be made to feel ashamed of it, while at the same time be pressured to consider it to be rude to critizise others for thinking differently? This is our continent, these are our countries – even if it sounds “unwelcoming” to put out facts like that.
However, in my opinion, to cover one’s head ought to be allowed… It poses no discernible danger (one can’t quite hide a weapon between a piece of cloth and their hair, right?) I personally love to wear hats. And after all, my own grandmothers never stepped out with their heads uncovered in their lives (we’re Catholics). I would feel quite the hypocrite if I were to deem an arab scarf for head coverage out of place in Europe…
Aus Gründen der Sicherheit: JA!
Europe should protect freedom of religion and diversity, so it’s a big NO.
Yes!!!! It should…..all faces uncovered ,clean and honest!!!!
Yes
Muuuch far!!!
Yes
YES
Only for politicians…
Yes although it seems unfair not to except someone’s tradition we shouldn’t allow men force women to hide their faces. Even when they agree.
It s not like they choose to hide with their free will.
They have never been allowed to be free so they can decide what is fair for them.
They are brought up believing their inferiority. Equality is supposed to be Europe s principal so it has to support it.
No never
YES for security reasons!
Yes.
Yes, for security and for the human rights reasons. If men had to cover their faces in Islam when going out then this might be a different argument
Absolutely yes.
Not at all, as long as freedom of others is not harmed.
Yes,because i want to see their lovely faces.
Wooa so much freedom here u go lmao
If this was south america and someone exploited the concept of wearing a veil for criminal purposes, there’s a chance authorities would remove it in an instance without reviewing international laws :P
Absolutely.
It is not the fault of the cloth that the culprit of an individual behaves in a way that the cloth is enforced bad reputation upon it. Blame the wielder, not the cloth. Suit makes no saint.
When you find a culprit, you will slowly understand that the environment from where one comes from is the reason why they behave the way they do and when you go there, you understand that the country behaves the way it does because of how the world behaves.
This won’t solve security problems, but grows the portion and then it is not possible to undo this anymore by lifting the ban because the undoable harm i.e. consequences are already put into motion. This is one of those decision that is explicitly difficult to rewind if it even is possible to be rewound at all. It would also force anyone who wants to wear this piece of cloth to oppose it no matter how reasonable the properties of the cloth are. Culprits would also just simply find another way to penetrate the curtain to let out their sorrow no matter how ‘misinformed’ they happen to be and with this ban, they would have yet another simple reason to revolt.
Best way into consensus is education.
PS: If nothing more, at least let us make sure that whatever conflict we share in the future, let it become of something that is actually fundamental than just the mere topic with a small ‘frightful hood’ in its core, okay?
PPS: This question is raised by the conflict of two or more cultures through differences. A face veil in one is just an ordinary headgear which has a purpose to protect the head from wind, sand, sunrays and the like. In another culture it is used for religious purposes while in a third one it is used by thieves to hide their facial identities. Guess which one is the source of fear and you will find the reason why this question exists. The reason how it exists is due the practises of the cultures and especially those in which the piece of cloth is learned to be feared.
yes, it should be banned in the name of liberty rights!
It is illegal to walk in sky mask and helmet, so why there is exceptions?
Because religion goes above all laws!!
Book written when people were savages in 6th century is more important than all laws of 21st century.
BTW if we go to Islamic countries, women need to cover their hair because uncovered hair provokes raping.
No burqa. No Niqab. YES HIJAB.
Agreed!
If it’s the womans own choice to wear something, then she can. Simple.
“This is womens right to wear veil!”.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/60339/twelve-things-women-in-saudi-arabia-cant-do
Yes. Men are using them for crimes and it’s a security threat.
Yes!
Yes. If you go to Islamic states you should respect their customs so when they come to ours, they should do the same thing.
absolutely
Yes, Europe is a civilization choice. Burqas do not belong to the values of the European civilization.
Yes – if they want to wear veils and burgas they must stay at their home countries. Here is Europe and Europe respects human and women rights
Yes
Yes! security above religion
Sure!
Yes for security reasons and respect de law as the others do……
Just like the Bible predicted, the end times are here and men are turning their backs to God.
As far as necessary
Including nuns right???
Nuns where head scarves; not veils… the ones in Canada anyway…
Everybody can believe in what he wants, but must follow the rules of the country where they are living . If I want to wear face veil, I am going in the country were this is usual! Where NOBODY CAN WALK in the street WITH A CROSS jewel! In Europe they are not killed for wearing the face veil, but they must understand that it is also s matter of security! Any terrorist can wear it!
Not at all …is a kind of slavery
Yes, it should be banned. If you wanna look like talibans, then go to your own shitty countries and there you can wear your terrorist headgear.
Yes….absolutely. Cuestion de seguridad a estas alturas.
Of course should be banned. on the one hand a few times terrorists are trapped men dressed as women.
Yes. Sim. Oui
Yes! Now!
If they come to us, they should play the game our way :)
should…
Europe is secular. Therefore, face veil should be banned from schools, universities, institutions!
Yes
Yes. Worldwide.
yes yes yes banned the burca
I Do not understand why so much effort is potting in to close. No matter religion so have close not to do with it. It’s what in the mind and Hart and not what we were. Théy also do need to get more Morden in their beliefs And more adaptable. It’s yesterday a pice of fabric nothing else.
It isn’t merely a religion sign, but also a social one, that one could argue it degrades woman’s value.
I would say no to the veil as it hides the face which is a security risk. That is not a comment about religion as there are followers of more than one religion that use a veil. Lets get the safety and security issue out of the way first, then whether religious insignia should be allowed can be discussed in the pure form. I would object to dealing with a bank officer or government officer wearing a veil because if there was to be an issue later on you may be expected to identify the person you dealt with. I am not so good at identifying people hidden behind a curtain – are you?
Yes, absolutely. Dangerous criminals cannot be identified if something happens.
Europe is and should remain the land of democracy !
So a referendum should be held for people to decide whether the freedom of religion preference could be insulting when religious behaviour is exhibited in public!
In the same way that I may be a nudist but I am not allowed to travel nude in the tube !!
If the majority do not mind , they may wear a veil or horns on their head or whatever makes any religious person happy. If the majority is though annoyed then they should restrict their religious habits at private places . Simple !
yeah good luck with banning it. Look what happened when they tried it in the Middle East
Absolutely Yes
As my opinion: yes, religions must private rigth; all Eu citeziens must follow laws
Yes, the face veil is a serious security risk. Wear a head scarf by all means and a crescent on a gold chain. But don’t hide your identity.
Yes for security, and nuns dont have their faces covered
unless for a special occasion, the face veil should be banned
They shouldn’t use the veil, you can not see the face under it.
Yes
You’re not able to identify such person thru cctv, so for security reason you should have your face all visible
Yes!
in Europe no veil and no religious signs in public spaces!
Veil off or microchipped!
Yes. Definetly YES.
People who move to another country to live MUST understand that it is normal and necessary TO RESPECT THE RULES, LAWS, RELIGION, TRADITION AND CULTURE OF THAT COUNTRY.
IT IS APAWLING TO INSIST ON HAVING EVERYTHING THE WAY THEY WERE AT HOME, AND TO IMPOSE THE RELIGION OF THE COUNTRY YOU LEFT, ON THE COUNTRY AND PEOPLE THAT ACCEPTED YOU.
Yes
yes..like everyone travelling to the Arabian peninsula/gulf/north africa/far east etc area, they must follow the rules/regulations of the respected country..same goes to all who travel to live abroad to follow the respective country’s regulations. You want to cover your hair, fine – but not face veil!
Absolutely yes! Not only in Europe!
You are free to chose what ever you want to wear in Europe. If you prohibit, you are no different from those country’s yourself.
It definitely should be banned for good.
Yes. Europeans can´t use their dress code in Arabian countries.
Yes
Errrr no? Duh. Shouldn’t even be debated. Humanity sheesh….
Yes. We can not be dresses with the european way in these countries, so it must be banned the equivalent in the EU.
More than anything for security reasons YES! At the end of the day we are ought to respect the cultures of the middle east countries we visit, and to be honest it shouldn’t be a question of religion at all it should be one of international security and safety!
It is up to individual person …is like you asking someone to get rid of any cultural or fashion cloth accessory that it is wearing??? f.exl Hat? sunglasses?? Tattoo?? Earing?? Jewelery ??
It should be banned ’cause it denies women’s identity and individuality. It’s a form of oppression desguised as culture. :(
I believe in a world of freedom.. We must accept each other. More awareness is needed to explain the different cultures. That is all.
With more awareness the fear from the unknown will be less. We must all meetup in a free dialogue to understand and respect each other.
Yes it should.
Freedom of religion implies that people should be able to choose their religion and express it has they see fit.
But, the forcibly imposition of a religion should be severly punished (that should be true for people forced to wear religious symbols or infant baptisms)
Yes and not only this… All religions MUST be banned. They all represent the DEVIL. .. A world with no religions is a really Free world. This will allow people to have their own spiritual themselves. Anything else is a dictature and brainwashing. Religions stop people’s spiritual evolution. .. Religions equal to crime against humanity and freedom
Freedom of religion implies that people can be themselves and able to be really free… and have the freedom to speak with their heart and sow without the dictature of any religion. I don’t say religions are necessary bad or wrong but they underestimate a lot the real capacity of humanity and prevent us from getting better
Yes
Religious signs are not a problem; covering one’s face is a BIG problem.
yes, we must be able to see the face of the person in front of us, a person with veil, could be anyone, a man a woman, a criminal, eaven a killer
Though a lot of people in my country are Muslims, I don’t think hijab has anything to do with religion, and it’s country’s own decision to decide whether to ban it or not. However, if country claims to be democratic, it has to present strong “because”s to all “why”s that might appear, and to prove that it’s not the violation of human rights.
If we must respect them in their countries, they must respect us in ours. The way I see it, that´s also democracy. The veil hide faces and faces, in our culture play “a significant role in social interaction”. I wanna see to whom I`m talking with. So the answer is yes.
No doubt.
Yes it should be Baned the face veil across EU anyway because the people need to be secured of that mask !
Isn’t this the very oppression they seek refuge from in Europe?
Yes,definently!
We have the right to oblige people In the streets or other public places to see their faces.In my country,Portugal,i never saw a woman covering her face.Even in many arab countries it was rare to see that.But now things are diferent,In Morocco i red in a good newspaper (french)that they started using because their relatives who lived in France visiting Morocco they should cover thei faces.May times islam extremists come from europe.
In their own country its fine, but they should not expect approval in other countries.
Full face veils are not acceptable in Europe. It makes me feel uncomfortable whenever I see someone wearing such veils. It is not normal being unable to see someone’s face. Most european countries are secular and everyone should respect this. Freedom of religion means also to respect the other in the society. They are free to have worship places, they can wear anything they want at home but not in public!
Yes!!!
Yes.
Estoy a favor que se prohiban signos tan arcaicos que van en contra de la dignidad de las mujeres sobre todtodo en las escuelas
Outside of their own countries YES!
Although I am not a supporter of any religion or God I personally feel that such a prohibition is unacceptable, not only because it does affect the way some religious people exercise their religious beliefs, it also affects their freedom of expression. Same way it would affect anyone who chooses to express something through their clothing, either that thing indicates their religious beliefs or not.
No of course not any more than long shorts, daft tee shirts, flip-flop’s and tattoo’s all over people bodies. It’s a personal choice for the individual!!
yes
It’s a symbol of oppression of women, based on religion. Religious freedom is limited by human dignity, which in this case is jeopardized. Stop making it about the Islam, because it isn’t. In Europe there are certain human values that are legally based, and in this case, the veil clearly disrespects them. Why should a women cover her face or her body?
Yes it should because we obey their religion there
Women cannot go into the Vatican without covering their shoulders. This should be banned as well yes?
Yes of course.Islam poses the biggest threat for our european culture and that’s why we must kick it out of Europe.Also veils are a security risk, since they conceal a person’s identity.Furthermore,banning the wear of burqas and veils is a way to protect women’s rights.Moreover the European Court of Human Rights has upheld France’s ban on wearing full-face veils in public, rejecting arguments that the ban undermines freedoms of religion and expression.
The clothing of a person in front of me or around me shouldn’t have disturb me to feel me comfortable in myself. If yes, then there is a problem with myself for my own self determination, with my sense of self-worth or self-confidence. Also actually in my personal integrity in core of my humanity and human being, unfortunately. You can discuss this issue in all directions, and vice versa, as if that were a hot topic, but no, it’s not!
The problem as a real exists always between heart and brain. It’s only a behaviour of persons, which live with “Fear and Othering” in the middle of diversity people. And they are a kind of individuals, which know very well, how to establish and enforce agitations. They provoke.
So we have to recognize that a behaviour such these (discussing clothing of people) is a form of “being afraid of yourself”, based on this causality would all the psychiatrist