The centre-right European People’s Party (EPP) claimed victory in the European Parliament elections last night, after preliminary results showed it had won the most seats. However, far-right, far-left and protest parties made strong gains and most mainstream political parties faced losses. Although turnout was low (43.11%), the long-term trend towards declining voter participation in European elections was finally halted, with roughly the same turnout as in 2009 (43%).
Provisional results published this morning (9:50 CET) were as follows:
Centre-Right (EPP) – 28.23%, 212 MEPs (-62)
Social Democrats (S&D) – 24.90%, 187 MEPs (-9)
Liberal Democrats (ALDE) – 9.59%, 72 MEPs (-11)
Others (Not Yet Aligned) – 8.39%, 63 MEPs
Greens (Greens/EFA) – 7.32%, 55 MEPs (-2)
Conservatives (ECR) – 5.99%, 45 MEPs (-12)
Radical Left (GUE/NGL) – 5.73%, 43 MEPs (+8)
Non-Inscrits – 5.19%, 39 MEPs (+8)
Eurosceptics (EFD) – 4.66%, 35 MEPs (+1)
The final make-up of the European Parliament is still undetermined as over 60 new MEPs have yet to decide who they will sit with.
Here are a few of the most striking highlights from the preliminary results:
In France, the anti-immigration Front National (FN) made historic gains to take 25% of the vote and top the poll, pushing the governing Socialist Party of President Hollande back into third place. Marine Le Pen’s party will take as many as 24 seats in the European Parliament, a huge increase from the 3 seats the FN won in 2009.
In the Netherlands, however, there was a surprise upset for Marine Le Pen’s key ally, Geert Wilders, as his anti-EU, anti-immigration Freedom Party (PVV) did much worse than predicted, coming in third place behind two pro-EU parties – the liberal D66 and centre-right CDA. The governing liberal VVD party (senior coalition partner with the CDA) was in fourth place.
In the UK, the anti-EU UK Independence Party (UKIP) made history by coming in first place with an estimated 27.50% of the vote and 23 seats. Behind them, in second place, were the opposition Labour Party with 25.4% and 18 seats. The governing Conservative party also took 18 seats with 23.94% of the vote, whilst their coalition partners, the Liberal Democrats, were almost wiped out completely and only took 1 seat with 6.87% of the vote.
In Denmark, the anti-immigrant Danish People’s Party took first place with nearly 27% of the vote, doubling its number of MEPs from 2 to 4 and beating the governing Socialist party.
In Italy, Prime Minister Matteo Renzi’s party, the centre-left PD, came in first. The firebrand anti-politics politician Beppe Grillo claimed second place for his 5 Star Movement whilst the centre-right Forza Italia, the political party of former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi, came in third.
In Greece, the radical left SYRIZA party topped the polls, with party leader Alexis Tsipras arguing that there was no longer a consensus for austerity in the country. However, together the two governing parties – New Democracy and PASOK – received a greater share of the votes and they argue there is “no issue of early elections” because of the upset. The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party will enter the European Parliament for the first time, claiming 9% of the vote – some 2% higher than its results in the June 2012 national elections – despite its leader currently being jailed and awaiting trial on charges of forming a criminal organization.
In Germany, Angela Merkel’s Christian Union got another vote of approval from citizens, coming in first with 35%. The centre-left SPD took 27% of the vote, whilst the new Eurosceptic AfD party took 7%.
So, a victory for the centre-right? Jean-Claude Juncker, the EPP candidate for EU Commission President, certainly believed he had won. Speaking at a press conference last night, Juncker said: “As we did win these elections, I feel fully entitled to become the next European President of the commission.”
When asked if he would form a “Grand Coalition” with the Social Democrats, he responded that he was: “Always ready to hold out his hand and build consensus with pro-European forces” but that he would “reject any contribution by the extreme right”.
Juncker added that: “Unlike what’s being said in some parts of the media, the extreme right didn’t win the elections. In all countries, pro-European forces, if you add up the results of the liberal, the greens, etc., clearly won the elections.”
Who do YOU think were the real winners in the European Parliament elections? Are you pleased to see more anti-establishment parties enter the European Parliament? Or are you concerned at the rise of far-right and far-left voices? Is it a good thing that the decline in turnout was finally halted? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.
192 comments Post a commentcomment
Nope
NO
Jean Monnet and Robert Schuman must be turning over in their graves.
Shame they’re not alive, we could have hanged them for conspiracy against national democracy. I for one would have loved to spit Monnet in the face, him being the enemy of all things I like (democracy, liberty, freedom and all that).
“freedom and democracy” that you “like” ?
So you voted for fascists because you love democracy and freedom?
Nice logic there Marcel
it is your fault.
eat it
nope
The conditions were created by Europe, so this is a clear signal things need to improve for ALL; and not just a happy few.
So true, this is the spirit of democracy, the responsibility to all.
“Things need to improve for all” ?
Judging by your past comments what you really want is to colonize eastern Europe and live-it up large in the West.
Far-right or not, that ain’t gonna fly, buddy.
It could have been worse. At least the European Parliament is more reflective of people’s anger now. Turnout didn’t decline, and although the anti-EU parties did very well, I doubt they’ll be able to work together effectively and the vast majority of votes still went to pro-European parties.
Yes, relatively. It could have been much worse!
Far right is an insult to Europe, its diversity and history, living proof of how eu doesn’t give a crap to its citizens and how it forgot its own recent history so fast.
It was bound to happen. When times are hard, people look to simplistic solutions to complex problems. Extremes only lead to more misery. Solutions are found in the boring broad centre and hard work.
God forbid you should ever become a politician Mark,your blind acceptance of the status quo is frankly scary,don’t you believe in anything other than letting those in charge choose which direction to point you in ?
You look like the typical democracy-hating Eurosoviet drone.
plutt Oui
It was a complete disaster.
We are concerned at the far-market vultures voices which dominate E.U. NOW and support austerity and poverty for the citizens.
no
Not happy at all, but not suprised to a slightest extent, either. It is the UNACCOUNTABILITY of the EU institutions, the EC in particular, I think, which is at the root of this “popular revolt”. And it may have dire consequences.
Scary, but Brussels itself is the culprit. I will still keep voting whenever possible, but I believe less and less in EU institutions, apart from their outstanding ability to maintain their bureaucrats alive and even reproduce.
Europe’s old demons never really left …
OF COURSE….NOT!
I Vote Italian PD. Absolutely Yes. Who are douchebags that elect undemocratic stupid leaders now? Ahahah #ukip #fn
Italians are just being greedy for other peoples money.
Even the question is misplaced. Anti-establishment or “soft” eurosceptic attitude cannot be described with words like “extremism” or “far-right/left”…
Yes, and what’s wrong with a parliament in a democracy regain its will to review, not rubber stamping any decisions by the executives?
It is very depressing that there are now lots of representatives who see it as their role to simply vote ‘no, no, no to everything’ (according to one UKIP MEP). This is not going to result in positive policies. If the situation is not to get worse (i.e. imminent withdrawals from the European project) all European institutions and representatives must take much more seriously the need to demonstrate Europe working well for ordinary people and much more efficiency, cost-effectiveness and improved communications of tangible benefits. At present the Brussels circus feels very out of touch with ordinary people – even for those of us living here…
At present the Brussels circus feels very out of touch with ordinary people – I like the “circus” analogy!
Why is it depressing if there are lots of representatives prepared to vote no?….the current situation where an arrogant, self centered seemingly untouchable EU elite pushed through, unchallanged, every stupid idea without any consideration for the people affected or the cost to the taxpayers.. now that is what I call depressing
@Paul X yes, the european institutions are fascist-like so let’s show our disagreement towards them and vote in the far-right, right? seriously, wtf are you thinking?
Really worried. Fortunately, in Italy we still have a strong wish of Europe!
of course no
No, not happy. Too many fascists around, not enough nice people voting.
In Europe, a war will start in maximum 20 years if people keep this… War was forgotten and the true principles of EU are not the same. So for that, screw EU. gat back to basics and to people. Start over EU.
@Rui Jamp
I fear you may be right about war. I sincerely hope not.
If (and its not likely) that happens, you can count on me being on the side that will assault Brussels and destroy Eurosoviet HQ.
“Are you pleased to see more anti-establishment parties enter the European Parliament?”
Everybody should be , the parliament has never had proper opposition and has got away with doing exactly what it wants for far too long, at least now they will have to start earning their salaries by justifying things instead of just rubber stamping more unnecessary legislation
Mother nature teaches us that the solution lies in the balance between earthly beings and not in extremism. You provoked what’s happening, brought the people and took him to the extreme of the revolt.
I wish more people would understand that. If we have another war in Europe, count me out because I won’t fight due to stupidity of the european people. The values that the EU had were our most valuable thing and now it is lost.
Concerned, they will fight among themselves too, but Europe’s future is in question, so it will encourage EPs to be closer to the people
What a shame!!!
Of course not…
Seigneur vous avez pas chipot pour choisir la photo carnassire…
Very bad
Europe would be best off implementing the solutions offered by the German AfD. The Euro is a one-size-fits all instrument, while such instrument is not suitable for the highly differentiated Eurozone. A country like Greece does not benefit from German style monetary policies which the Eurozone is forcing upon it. Too bad it will probably take a lot more years of social and economic misery for the EU to realize this.
@Rutger yes, I totally agree with you. The euro should have never been adopted by southern europeans. We maintaned our competitiveness by devaluating our national coin and now we have a coin that is artificially kept more valuable than it actually is altough it is already very valuable. In spite of that, I think now is maybe too late to return to our national coins without farther agravating the situation. It is sad that more people don’t understand this
Nah, I even got to go to Italy last week! It was just the weekend we’re both going to need a few days to recover from. :-)
The extremes don’t divide Europe, they divide community’s and people.
When it comes to Europe so called pro-Europe party’s grew stronger compared to 2009.
Its our liders fault and the establishment who just want to maintain their previleges….
Viva Le Pen :)
Who do YOU think were the real winners in the European Parliament elections? – I cannot see big winner or losers. I see an awakening to an Europe that has been losing sight of its people. An awakening to an Europe that has not had the political will to confront its big problems.
Are you pleased to see more anti-establishment parties enter the European Parliament? – To a point, yes. It is important to give the establishment the message that we, the people, are not happy with its/their performance!
(Or) are you concerned at the rise of far-right and far-left voices? – Very much so. Radical groups have been defending over-simplified solutions to tough problems. The big issue of immigration is a clear example. I do not believe that immigration issues can be solved by tackling immigration by itself. Immigration needs to be tackled by facing all the other issues – poverty in the developing world, lack of political and economic freedom in the non-European world, the work/employment concepts that were created in the XIX century and do no not fit any longer in the World of the XXI century, the aging of the European population, etc.
Is it a good thing that the decline in turnout was finally halted? – Of course it is good! It may be a sign that Europeans of all nationalities are waking up to their responsibility as citizens of the World (barring some countries where participation at the ballot box was pathetic).
No, porque seguiremos igual de mal, polticos ladrones y corruptos!!!
NO. And I am not happy with so many UKIP, FN and Northern League MEPs elected. One of them is already too much. They just shout, disseminate hate, behave in distructive way, and take the MEP salary to produce nothing useful or positive . A vote of protest against the two major political families could have been addressed to propositive and more useful forces like Greens or Pirates and also Liberals. But voting the just screaming and racist forces only produces damages to all.
06/03/2017 Matthijs Rooduijn, Assistant Professor of Sociology at the University of Utrecht, has responded to this comment.
06/03/2017 Shahin Vallee, former advisor to Emmanuel Macron, and former advisor to then-European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, has responded to this comment.
Do you know the difference between racist and nationalist ? As long as you think that the anti EU vote is a protest vote you are not getting the message .We want out of the EU, voting Green would be a vote for continued integration
“shout, disseminate hate, behave in distructive way, and take the MEP salary to produce nothing useful or positive”
That is what opposition parties do, they oppose those who would otherwise get everything their own way irrespective of the wishes of the people. A parliament full of “Yes Men” who do nothing but agree with each other is totally undemocratic and a complete waste of space and my taxes
@Carmela M. Asero
How dare you lump UKIP [who want immigration control] with anti-immigration racists like the FN in France and the LN in Italy!
UKIP has non-white councillors AND it wants to trade more with the likes of a growing India than a declining Europe.
FTR:
Green = mean.
Pirates = cowboys.
@Tarquin: we know now what UKIP are against: Europe and too many foreigners. But nobody knows what they are actually for… Anybody ever asked that question to Mr. Farage? Yes, and he keeps talking around the answer.
@Carmela M. Asero
People like YOU are typical Europhile ‘useful idiots’.
How dare YOU associate UKIP [a controlled-immigration party in favour of an entry system based on ‘points’, a bit like the USA, Canada, Australia and NZ] with a FASCIST party like FN!
STOP disseminating lies!
@Daniel
Please get your facts RIGHT!
UKIP is NOT against ALL foreigners – it is against UNCONTROLLED immigration from Europe.
UKIP wants to introduce a ‘points’ system whereby the UK can choose from ALL countries in the world and NOT just continental Europe that houses a mere 7% of the world’s population.
I find the immigration policy dictated by the EU to be RACIST!
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Although one must be concerned about the rise of far-right and eurosceptic parties in some countries, as all they seek is the regression of democracy and democratic principles, we must not confuse such movements with the views of the radical left which is very supportive of the European Union but proposes a radical reform of its policies in order for it to be a true social union taking power back from the uncontrolled financial sector. The left fights for a radical change in the way the EU is managed and not for small adjustments to keep a broken system standing as do the social-democrats. The lack of courage from the social-democrats to propose different policies has led many of their voters to opt for Front National, UKIP, Movimento 5 Stelle, Golden Dawn Party, etc. as they saw in them an option for change. Thankfully some have turn left and voted for Tsipras.
So they vote in the far-right because they wish a more democratic Europe. Well, that is a genius move, let’s see how that will turn out.
Though happy with my countries reaction to the European vote , UKIP being the clear winners ,I don’t like the make up of the European parliament and I suppose that is why UKIP exists . We don’t want to be part of the political union of Europe. Other countries have also seen anti EU parties winning their national vote and others gaining many MEP’s.
So we look at the new make up of the European parliament and see despite all this anti EU feelings we still have a very pro EU parliament , that’s disappointing .
Yes and no.
However, I do believe the vote has shown exactly the right voice of the people of Europe.
They are not ready to take any more politically correct dogma,. That is clear from the anti immigration and European culture promotion vote which is going to grow to a level we have been warning of for some years.
However, the underlying, but oddly, ignored vote of the left is also on the rise, and clearly this trend is also obvious in the UK results. So, roll on Alexis Tsipris with his European Left party. And to show an understanding of this leaning from the left, he must be the next politician to have an important seat within the European power base.
So, I’m satisfied it wasn’t rigged, but, not satisfied it didn’t go further to the left economically as it should have.
This is the reason, sheep: Today the ECB will print 100 euro banknote at a cost of 3 cents and sell it to commercial banks at 100 ?, plus 1% interest, in exchange for securities of warranty. The banks sell the bill to the state at a higher rate in exchange for Treasury bonds which are debt securities and which will yield upto 14% in the case of Greek bonds.. The state pays for these interests by transferring the tax burden to its citizens. So all the money in circulation is burdened by interest received by banks and tax burdens on our backs. That’s how we are in debt by the time we are born. It is the system which in fact corresponds to a ‘factory of debt. ” Who is responsible? Contrary to what one would tend to think the ECB is an institution that performs a public function, it is private property, owned by private banks, including those of the European countries that do not adhere to the euro. It has the structure of a joint-stock company and has absolute autonomy from politics while heavily influencing policy. This “factory of debt” has been enriched with two new Treaties, the Fiscal Compact or the Stability Pact, and the Mes Fund or Save-States, approved July 19 by the European Parliament: so we are condemned to be indebted for life (…) This Europe is far from united when the imbalance is exploited speculatively by some countries.
I’m happy with the election results in Bulgaria, but definately not in the EU as a whole. The rise of xenophobic parties in the UK and France and the victory of the radical left SYRIZA in Greece is definately not good. It looks like populism got the upper hand there.
That’s right , popular policies get votes
Populism is a 1000 times better than antidemocratic EU-elitism.
We do NOT want the Eurosoviet Union. The elites do. We don’t.
nu, deloc!
I’m sad with the rise of the Le Pens of this world. In this continente of peace and tolerance.
???
Yes! We are happy! No more Martin Schulz!
NO I’am not, however I have the impression, that the politicians have achieved their goals i.e. fooled us EU electors once more and that not much will change. What worries me more, is that politicians of all colours are so short seeing and do not know the history of Europe well enough to understand that in consequence of their approach forces which should have remained buried, like zombies, take advantage on them and will again start to be part of our public life in Europe.
As a Ukip supporter, I’m absolutely delighted.
I’m curious…as I’m italian, I do not know Ukip’s political program for these elections…can you enlighten me?
Well Mr Farage certainly have a plan: to remove Europe from EU, he claimed. I guess that could make Putin bully the eastern countries easier.
The rise of far right parties is a huge concern and it should be addressed. As history has proven, hate and extremism do not solve problems but quite the opposite! What the EU leaders should be thinking though is how to bring change in Europe, a positive change where the ‘right’, fair balance is found and ALL eu countries benefit!
S pode estar contente com os resultados quem anseia uma UE em guerra..
YES
No
Very concerned
I am very much concerned by the results. Not only has abstention been hudge but there is also an anti-europe feeling and an increase in nationalism that I find extremely dangerous. It was 100th years ago that the Great War started …
No.
I am incredibly unsatisfied with the rise of anti-europe parties. This shows that people in certain european countries don’t wish to belong to European Union.
This growth will bring problems on important european decisions. Therefore, Europe will become slower in their decision making and consequently Europe’s economy will suffer.
I hope EPP and Socialists can dialogue and bring a rise on Europe’s economy and society.
I couldn’t care less.I’m boycotting EU elections.We can never change anything but they like to keep us living the illusion that we can.For me they are all the same.
Not at all. However I am quite optimistic about the future of European collaborative programmes such as Horizon2020, and other opportunities that support the European global education systems, researchers’ mobility etc.
Its a sad development but we need to rise to the challenge to turn this tide back its time to explain the hard won benefits of the EU
No, no, no!
Better get ready for another war in Europe.. And I bet that it will start in catalonia. Definately we are dumb asses that dont learn with the lessons of history…:(
Talvez sejam bons se o PPE e o PSE refletirem sobre a imoralidade das suas aoes e trabalhem efetivamente, sem politicamente corretos, para solucionar os problemas… se for o contrrio, ontem foi o incio do fim.
I am said really….how can people want to bring old phantoms back?….??? How can someone trust ideologies that either on the left or on the right (because extremes touch each other) believe that limited rights of expression and in differentiation of people… ??
No, even last night I heard a senior EU party leader (you know the one; face like a well skelped derriere suffering from a sever case of diastema) stating that the solution to the crisis is ‘more EU’.
Even if he was correct, his arrogant demented, ferocious, febrile, fetid, zeal is truly FRIGHTENING!
It’s a kinda funny situation since far left and far right reach the same (absurd) conclusions….
It’s a kind of funny situation since far-right and the bunch of criminals who lead EU, reach to the same result… the destroying of EU…
war starting in Catalonia?
The rise of both euroskeptical parties and extreme wings will, in my opinion, make the political discussion more difficult, and the decision-making process slower. In such hard times for Europe, when difficulties in european integration remain important issues, as an european citizen I’m worried. I hope this radical rise won’t turn into a symptom of a new extremist exstablishment.
I’m italian and unfortunately have a long experience about institutional paralysis. A good 2/3 majority of moderate parties gives me more confidence, but…we’ll wait and see. Go, Europe!
You say this will make political decisions slower and further European integration difficult ………..well I’m afraid to tell you thats exactly what the millions who vote for eurosceptic parties want and these people have finally been allowed their voice despite all the establishment propaganda trying to humiliate them into silence with labels like “Racist” or “little Englander”
In France and UK Yeasssaa in my country absolutely No
Europe seems desperate and unable to find REAL solutions or alternatives to the ruling system or establishment as in elections that seem to represent only the irrational fears and hopes on which politicians play.
as a catalan I’m not sure i want to belong to this EU if we achieve the independence
I can only see the future of the ue walking to a federation of states, with a unique foreign policy, a unique army, a unique financial and banking policy. Unique rules for all citizens, same taxes for all citizens and unique salaries for the same kind of work. Thats the only way to develop the ue and bring the citizens to acept the ue as it should be.
No.
Andr Mendes Santos keep dreaming! :)
I’m not happy with the results. But think what made this possible.
A great day for france. Im glad the French could see through the barrage of europhile propaganda or bs. The dutch or ego land had thier head in the sand, wait till they wake up , thell be in for a shock when brussels starts taxing thier paychecks, for the dutch its over, the flying dutchman is sinking to the bottom with flag and all while the dutch lay snoozing. Theve been told there smart , ?
Yup pretty soon good ole herman van rumpay will be getting his grubby little hands on dutch pensions, i can see it hitting the fan in the Netherlands when that happens, should be interesting. It,ll be a wake up call to late …
All i can say is be carefull what you wish for, your dealing with europoliticians whom will sell you a piece of swampland and tell you its prime realestate.
Are euroskeptic parties racist, no. Are people morons who vote for them, no.
Europhile parties are corporations, monsanto, shell, Unilever, basf, bayer, etc whom dont have the public interest in mind, only thier bottom line. They want money , your money…..
So dont believe the europhile propagada machine , believe in your own country, and dont believe what you see on tv.
Hats of to the French , great job…..
My friend I do have to reply to you. It seems that you have some kind of paranoia incorporated in your mind. I understand it, and now I’ll try to give you another view on things. These times in which we live are quite unpredictable, and time is much intense or if it is possible to say time is faster. However, the idea of unity exist since more than 5000 yrs. If you want it or not one day if humans steel here, they will live as human race. We the Europeans can be leaders once again on global scale but this thing will not happened if an anti European voice is coming from the inside of us. Did you saw for example the flaws of immigrants in UK on which Farage made his campaign that was a total lie !?!? People are just full of fear and nationalist and anti immigrant parties are relying on it. I see a lot of fear in your words, but I have to say that I understand you, times are just strange. I have to say to you that for me people who vote extreme right or left are mostly people with fears for the unknown, and progress do not come with fear, ideas do not come with fear etc, etc. So take a plane, make a roll, go to see ALL EUROPE, go to speak with different Europeans and you will understand the enormous potential of Europe. I believe that you my friend are subject to propaganda from the past century, so please think, travel and create and stop hating diversity…if you want to live better with you, with your family, with your neighbors, with your friends and not friends in the 21th century. And friend, if immigrants, people that do not speak your language, do not know your habitudes are taking your job, than you have to reconsider what are exactly good to do. Hahhahaha come on…
@Ivanov
Don’t be misled by the biased UK media. The ONS has reported a significant increase in Romanians registering for National Insurance for the year ending March 2014:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2014/index.html
No !
Unio Europeia necessita urgentemente de assumir uma papel clarificador e regulador muito mais eficiente e justo no espao de toda a Unio Europeia.
Manter-se o papel do pai rico, tendencioso e desinteressado pelos filhos ser facilitarem-se tempos ainda mais difceis para a actual Unio Europeia.
Vitria daqueles que defendem o fim do Euro e da Unio Europeia s possvel pelas manifestas falhas, bloqueios e indefinies que a Unio Europeia tem cometido nos ltimos anos pois, necessrio corrigir essas falhas levantando uma activa lgica preventiva das mesmas no futuro.
horrible especeally at France
I am very grateful for the results obtained by Le Pen and other eurosceptic parties. It will waken up the silent majority of EU-lovers and make them realize how much they have to loose! Th eproblem is that EU-lovers take everything for granted. Europe is a verb, not a noun!
I am embarrassed that T.?danoka gained a spot again. There is no room in EU parliament for Putins spies and traitors. She is an old school communist who actively supports re-establishing the old soviet borders and fascist regime.
I am not concerned. People have chosen , and it’s democratic, Anyway I don’t like neither far left nor far right. But the fact is that Europe (and the whole world) has judged and prohibited all the simbols and extreme right movements (which is ok), but still didn’t judge or prohibit extreme left movements and their simbols. Why is it so? The reason is simple. All kind of so called leftists are trying to mix themselves into winners of the world war II . So the extreme left can do whatever they want in spite of their revisionism.That is not correct. European parliament has to change european law by treating extreme left and extreme right with equal force and prohibitions.
I am very worried but I believe on the ligth of European Civility and Freedom.
Mixed. Too many right-wings- but glad most voted pro-EU.
It is shame. :-(
I’m deeply worried. All these results are a very bad sign.
Conseidering the results these are not European elections
yes they are , just not the ones you eu minions wanted,
If the EU should benefit the people of Europe, then it needs a reasonable balance between “imperial” and “national” forces/interests. Since 1992 (Maastricht) this balance has increasingly been destroyed by influence/power tilting to the side of “empire” (i.e. financial conglomerates, global companies, transnational bureaucrats and NGOs, mass immigration etc.).
The current EU establishment/leadership does obviously not understand that EU Europe can only become strong and a global player if it is based on self-confident national societies and not on a bunch of partly failed states, or national societies weakened in their core identity by Brussels through centralisation and political correct indoctrination with the intention to denationalize and reduce individuals from being complex historical national identities to servants of labour and commercial markets only.
The 2014 EP elections should be seen as a wake-up call for the EU establishment to recognize that the attempt to make Europe “post-national” is a historical dead-end road. Base politics on reality, skip wishful ideological dreaming!
Não.
@Pedro Pereira
WTF am I thinking?…..I’ll tell you what I’m thinking….if it takes a vote for the far right to try and restore some balance in the pseudo-socialist establishment of the EU then that is what has to be done. As it is the far Right are not “in” and never will be, but at least there is enought “Right” to try and have some influence
Absolutely delighted,I cannot think of a better way to make the idiot rulers in Brussels sit up and take notice.
Why on earth are so many of you not happy,are you like so many sheep that herd together,without minds of your own ,for goodness sake grow some backbone and fight back.
United we stand… but in xenophobia, it seems! I am very sad, I need to say. One thing is disagreeing with corruption, or the system that does not work for us, with economical arrangements, etc. but voting for parties that openly promote hatred towards other people, just because they are differnet is sad. Shame on us!
@Roman Majcher
Is controlled immigration like that evident in Australia or New Zealand or Canada or the USA xenophobic?
of course not!! very worried.
I’m certainly NOT happy. Too much left (Socialism, on various forms), too many extreme parties (a lot of conflicts will occur), too small MODERATE right (ALDE), too much influence of RUSSIA over the EU… :(
I?m certainly NOT happy. Too much left (Socialism, on various forms), too many extreme parties (a lot of conflicts will occur), too small MODERATE right (ALDE), too much influence of RUSSIA over the EU? :(
would have liked more socialists elected… The Elite still Reign Supreme and out of touch with reality!
Your socialists are part of this elite, pro-banker and anti-people.
The european unions as it is sucks.There are way to many countries in it and theres no point of saving other countries. In the United States of America if a state goes bankrupt the federation or washington just don t do anything.If California fails his finances it s its own business and Texas or Pensylvania got nothing to do with it.The same system they got in switzerland.Everyone should look for his own economy.
Probably le pen will be next president in France and leave the Euro or even the EU.I once read a statement of hers talking about eu reaction when France would leave .”What are they going to do, send in tanks?”
@Alex
“…send in tanks?”
Well the EU has legalised the death penalty so I would NOT be surprised…
I am certainly happy!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=783246678361549&set=a.383388968347324.93980.381388321880722&type=1&theater
Unelcted unknown bank clerks in Brussels need to wake up and smell the coffee, people are tired of their agenda, let alone triggering a war in ukraine, disgraceful stuff.
Where you satisfied this choice racism and fraud… Formerly unfamiliar with real events and peace on this island..Known as the insurance is no longer the young generation has lost confidence in rum.Turkish Cypriot young people live a great shock…bravo…I celebrate south cyprus authority for this success…..bravo mr anastasiades…..
why should i worry about the far left? do they murder migrants on the streets?
Are you happy with the results of the European Parliament elections?
Actually I am. Let see y’all what Union is made of. I love to see concern on PPE’s forehead because yesterday’s exit polls are the direct result and the consequence of 10 years of Merkelism. Ironically, not long ago the country I reside was blamed to have too much “extremism” and less “democracy” Our “extremists” of course ( in fact was only one erudite nut case ) was puppies compared with Hungary’s Jobbik or Holland’s Geert Wilder political view. Well, guess what, the western blamers and detractors just voted for “far right” yesterday. Hypocritical, but I don’t complain.
Neo-fascism is the real cancer of our times
Extrema direita ou esquerda SO IGUAIS tudo o que extremismo MAU
Not happy with the rise off the far-right and left… concerned…
No
I worry about nacionalism !it becomes biger AND stronger!why??
Αλήθεια, γιατί;
Μήπως διότι πίσω από την “Ευρωπαϊκή Ενωση” κρύβεται η νεο-naziοναλιστική agenda της Γερμανίας;
Μήπως διότι μόνον η Γερμανία επωφελείται και ενισχύεται από το νόμισμα-καζίνο “ευρώ”;
Μήπως διότι με την Ζώνη Σενγκεν προστατεύεται το “Ευρωκέντρο” από την ανεξέλεγκτη εισροή μεταναστών (συνεπώς και η αγορά εργασίας εκεί ως προς μισθολογικές αναταράξεις που προκαλούν κοινωνικές κ.α.) μετατρέποντας την ζώνη του νότου σε χωματερή ανθρώπων από τρίτες χώρες;
Μήπως διότι η αύξηση στις χώρες αυτές του ανειδίκευτου εργατικού δυναμικού λόγω της μετανάστευσης από τρίτες χώρες έχει συμπιέσει τα μεροκάματα σε επίπεδα ανεπίτρεπτα για την αξιοπρεπή διαβίωση των γηγενών εργατών;
Μήπως διότι η επιβληθείσα στην Ελλάδα και τις λοιπές χώρες-γουρούνια οικονομική πολιτική εσωτερικής υποτίμησης υπονόμευσε την ίδια την Συνταγματική Τάξη των χωρών αυτών (με ότι αυτό συνεπάγεται μακροπρόθεσμα για τους δημοκρατικούς θεσμούς στις χώρες αυτές);
Μήπως διότι κύριο μέλημα της Ενωσης Δυτικο-Ευρωπαίων Τοκογλύφων (μεταμφιεσθείσας σε “Ευρωπαϊκή Ενωση”) ήταν η διάσωση των ιδιωτών τοκογλύφων (τράπεζες της Γερμανίας και της Γαλλίας κυρίως) και όχι η στήριξη των ΠΟΛΙΤΩΝ της Ευρώπης;
Σκεφθείτε όλα τα ανωτέρω και θα αντιληφθείτε γιατί ακόμη και κοσμοπολίτες αστοί όπως εγώ προτιμούμε την ασφάλεια του εθνικού κράτους της 10ετίας 1970 αφού αυτή τη στιγμή όχι μόνον το επίπεδο διαβίωσης και κοινωνικών παροχών έχει διολισθήσει στα επίπεδα εκείνης της 10ετίας αλλά επιπροσθέτως απειλούμεθα και με αποστέρηση (de facto) θεμελιωδών ατομικών και συλλογικών δικαιωμάτων με πρώτα στη σειρά το δικαίωμα της ατομικής ιδιοκτησίας και το δικαίωμα των ελεύθερων συλλογικών διαπραγματεύσεων.
No
lets get out of this rubbish mafia eu
No!! Uma autntica palhaada!! Desde quando partidos de extrema e cujos valores so neonazis vo melhorar a europa e os seus pases..??? O povo ainda se vai arrepender e muito destas votaes..
http://www.vilaweb.cat/noticia/4193876/20140526/analysis-of-the-may-25-european-elections.html
Depois da grande depresso 1929-33 tambm houve um “senhor” que foi eleito… lembram-se do resultado?
Elections have shovn weakness of pro-integrity politician options, this should be an alert for all of us, without the Union we are nothing in international area.
In my own country, Ireland, Sinn Fein, a left wing political party, have for the first time has a couple of MEPs’ elected, this is a great step forward, for too long it has been the right wing which represented Ireland almost en masse (I include the supposed social democratic Labour Party in that, as they are not Left other than in name), it is the right wing who have brought the EU to where it is today, economically and socially, and that is not a good place, it has not been the Left. It is a pity however that most Irish MEP’s are from parties on the the right which support austerity. A dogma which doesn’t work.
You are so right Martin. But, politicians are pretending they don’t hear that.
What has happened across Europe is what none of these who lead us want to address. The is a call for a return to traditional values, yet, with an economic left political policy.
I will not comment on the left vs right debate because obvioulsy everybody will have his own preference. But what needs to be said is that the main issue that MEPs do not connect well with the citizens. The problem is not if one or the other party is too weak or too strong for your personal preference. The problem is that not enough people vote to call that a representative result. And the few who go to the ballot box do that because they feel angry about the EU due to the critics shouting all over the place how bad the EU was for the country. They forget of course to report on the advantages, because those are pocketed by the politicians nationally and EU is not credited for it. How about freedom ov movement? How about freedom to work in any country in Europe? How about common quality standards or new issues such as the need for common data protection laws? It is just too easy to take the issue of the day (crisis and austerity) and blame the EU for it. In the end it is still the national parliament who steered the country into the issues. One might agree that the pill is too bitter for the patient. But the patient was not made ill by the EU. In the case of Ireland it was a friendly tax climate which generate unnatural economic growth at the cost of other countries. The solutions is not less Europe to be able to betray each again even more. The solution can only be closer cooperation such as common tax policies to fight tax evasion by corporations in order not to be eaten up in internal fights by Russia and the US.
Why do the Euro fanatics still try and make excuses for what has happened? Francois Hollande has quoted
“Europe, in the last two years, has overcome the euro crisis, but at what price? An austerity that has ended up disheartening the people.”
For god’s sake the UK is not even in the Eurozone, it has nothing to do with the Euro crisis and austerity, people are just fed up with the whole EU establishment in toto
If he thinks when the economy is all back on track that everybody is suddenly going to love the EU again then he is in for a big shock
@Paul X:
This line is the one they are using across the board. No matter which party and which state. Obviously a discussed response agreed by all.
Why do I say this? Did you see the interview with Michael Heseltine, this is exactly what he said. In essence take no notice of what the plebs are saying today, they are upset because of imposed austerity. They will calm down once we give them a few crumbs off our plates and we do it before the next election, that will get them nicely back in line.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/26/newsnight-heseltine-tells-paxman-tories-would-be-mad-to-consider-ukip-pact_n_5394847.html
In my opinion these are the main problems of the EU
1) People don’t understand the interaction between the European Parliament and their own countries
2) People don’t know what the European Parliament does
3) No strategy was clearly defined in case a country ended in trouble
a. In those countries that subscribed to the Euro quantitative easing is not possible
b. Better off countries don’t see why they should help those in trouble
4) Better off countries are afraid of being invaded by people from countries that are not doing as well (and this is because of point 3)
5) The way governments and the EU tackled the current crisis was extremely messy
With any luck this is the beginning of the end of your union.
NO
We could have a long philosophical discussion if we are happy or not. First I would urge all non-voters also not to post here, at least it would be consistent. Second it is time that the Council comitts to suggest one of the official candidates as Commission president. Everything else would be a shame on democracy and consequently the beginning of the end of future elections. For the next elections the Commission president should even be directly elected as a separate voice next to the one for a political party. David Camoron started now to add noise to this discussion by trying to motivate fellow leaders to ignore the voters and suggest somebody else. What a shame on you Mr Cameron!
Não estou feliz com os resultados Como uma pessoa interessada no futuro da Europa livre e Democrática Espero que no futuro os eleitos ao Parlamento Europeu telham decisões de indice de aprovação
You guys are really ridiculous! We are very concerned about the rising of the far-right and the remaining on their position, of those that brought EU in front of the destruction. The party of Merkel is the abettor of Europe’s death!!!
The worst possible choice, after this election result and a snub to the majority of the European citizens would be Juncker. What an insult.
NOOO.
No
You guys are really ridiculous! We are very concerned about the rising of the far-right and the remaining of those that brought EU in front of the destruction. The party of Merkel is the abettor of Europe’s death!!!
@Nikolaos Sotirelis:
I disagree, it’s forced on her by the US colonisation of her country. And niether Merkel, or anyone else in Germany, knows how to rid themselves of it.
@Catherinebenning
Dearest Catherine, I think you’re a few steps back. You’re talking about history, I’m talking about present (and hopefully not for future).
Austerity and povertization of the mass in the Continent aren’t an US choise, but a choice of “madam” Merkel and her supporters.
It started as an obsessive idea and continued in spite the catastrophe, because the North increased even more their profits against the South and peripheral countries.
No, ASYNEPIS and Nikolaos,
austerity is YOUR choice. Why don’t you overthrow dictator Samaras and his stooge Venizelos? Just vote in a government that would end it.
But you don’t want that, you want the 2002-2007 years coming back and live profligately at OUR expense. No one forced you to borrow a dime, it is your politicians who did this, and you who encouraged them to do so.
If you had a government that took you out of the Eurosoviet Union and out of the wealth-destroying Euro, you’d be better off.
So the real question is: Why don’t you do it? It is because you expect others to fund your lifestyle?
Dear Marcel, I spoke about the Continent and not for Greece! However, since you wish to separate it and you want me to be more specific, I’ll accept it!
You do have a point, when you are wondering why Greeks still vote the main responsibles for the Creek tragedy. The answer my friend is, FEAR. Is a well grown terrorism, from corrupted Media, as well as from blackmail from Brussels and Berlin.
On the other hand, no one demands or even desires, to go back to 2000. But it’s more than obvious that no one would enjoy to go back to 20’s or 30’s!!!
To be fair now, Greece was the last country in Europe considering the debt. Even less than Germany. (I presume you’re French, so you don’t have the moral stand to accuse Greeks, that lived with profligately!!!)
YOU OWE TO LEARN, MY FRIEND, THAT A DEBT IN A COUNTRY IS COMPOSED FROM 4 PARTS. FROM THE GOVERNMENT’S, THE PRIVATE, THE ENTERPRISES’ AND THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTES’ DEBT. AND IT’S CALLED TOTAL DEBT! AND NOT ONLY FROM THE FIRST ONE.
So Greece was far behind from France, Belgium or Luxembourg (especially the last!!!). If by the way, someone turn of the finance cock, to France for instance, as they did to Greece, then France would be disappeared from the global map in just 4 months (not 4 years)!!!
SEARCH… LEARN AND THEN SPEAK…. AND PRIMARILY, DON’T BUY EVERYTHING THEY SELL YOU.
(For any questions, I’ll be more than happy to answer you)
Who actually decided that europe is the only possibility for integration?All this EU fanboys tell you that all the european countries are to small to challenge the rising giants.The quastion is why challenge them?It only gets a challenge character when we all join the EU and form a block and consider china and russia or india or brazil as “the others”, “the challenge”.The question is why we actually do that?We could just integrate with Russia ,China or whoever just as good as with the EU?
Who got the idea we need to beat or challenge them,when it would be way more logical to just join them and profit of their growing strength?I wasn t asked to vote on this one?
What i m mad about is this casualness that politicians have when they say, that without european integration we re nothing and have no influance.You want integration? OK but why not with those countries that are going to be relevant in the future?
They’re the same people who in the mid 1980s told you the Soviet Union was there to stay, and that Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan were too small to matter by themselves and better off in political union with Moscow.
We all know how that one turned out, don’t we?
@Alex: i don’t understand..you want you country to be taken over by Russia or what?
You’re not making any sense.
@Crayven well…
Germany population 80mill,
Russia 150 mill.
German GDP:3.6trillion dollars
Russia GDP:1.85trillion dollars
I don t see anyone to be the junior partner here.Both countries are more or less at eye level.I doubt this is the case in a Germany-USA lets call it “partnership”
Elsje France and Denmark going right ?. What happened in Holland with Geert Wilders strong influence
I am happy only for France!! Italian people voted for TROIKA and european dictatorship!
No, at all specially in my country. In Croatia win again right block which had two populist candidates Ruža Tomašić (her politics is only focused against Serbs and all other ethnic minorities), and Marijana Petir who is against gay population and secular state, and who promote homophobic like “normal” thing. Ruža and Marijana will be member of EU parliament!
In general, new European parliament and you president of European commission need to make giant and core reforms in the EU if they don’t want hard extremist and eurosceptics in EU.
Alex, just go. I’m sure in France, but also in England, a lot of wonderful people are waiting for you. With batons.
Before commenting on this issue how many people vote on behalf of your country?
people ask from govt but what did u do to make govt?
@ Debating Europe forum: a qualifies yes!
Q; who do YOU think were the real winners?
A: its democratic process, despite being too distant & all its participants! But a warning to politicians not to take its too trusting electorate & status quo for granted! Think reform or ask Paul the Octopus- who proved his wisdom- for advice!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Octopus
Q: pleased to see more Anti EP?
A: yes, a serious message to all politicians hooked on steroids & the EU Commission set on Autopilot- to pause & connect! A special message & warning to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commissioner_for_Enlargement_and_European_Neighbourhood_Policy#Rehn
Q: turnout:
A: 43.11% is pathetic & reflects an apathy & complacency to recklessly & unconditionally hand over the future of the EU people to the entrenched political elite! Short of a death wish & prayer for voluntary enslavement by its rabid politicians and “extreme” global capitalist corporate terminators, Banksters, their invisible hand & network!
Hi, I’m Italian and i voted for United States of Europe. Our Prime Ministre, Renzi, would like this. He want the United States of Europe now.The next months he push to Politic Union. This is the motivation for her votation. And I think that is the only mode to risolve the crisis. The populism destroy the dream of Europa on 1950! We have to be unit , all Europe!!! (Excuse me for my english).
So you want to see incomes in Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Finland ea reduced by 30-40%? Because that is what is needed to bring everyone around the same average.
I think I spot more Italian corruption, debt-making and an attempt to have my country pay for your profligacy.
We want nothing to do with this. We don’t want to see our incomes reduced to make federation or fiscal union possible. We do not want to pay for lazy Italians, Greeks or Spanish. If you don’t like the medicine we give you, then you are free to leave the Eurosoviet, hell we’d like to leave it ourselves.
I respect the will of the people, freely expressed in democratic elections. It`s their representatives and their countries.
……..followed by a qualified NO!
Are you still happy? …….unknown too many what’s in the pipeline on the 5th June 2014 should make you shiver! As reward to have voted for the status quo, all may now qualify for a “slaughter house bonus”:
“The possibility of negative interest rates!” What could that mean? Rather left to your own imaginations!
In simple terms: the ECB magicians plan to steal our money- deposited in banks! Cyprus here we come.
It is reported that in classic Keynesian fashion, Draghi and the ECB members want to make sure inflation stays in an acceptable range. They believe there must be some price inflation, despite the fact that workers’ incomes are not keeping pace with inflation. All in the interest to protect its EU citizens of course!
Thank you to those for supporting the ECB by voting traditional EPP & SD- a majority of 53.13%, to allow “the ECB magicians” to laugh all the way to the bank! Eat your vote majority- the Banksters eat your money!
I think recent election outcomes throughout Europe have shown that ( post-modern ) liberalism and democracy are not synonymous. Infact, there a quite a few examples of democratic societies in history, that did’nt aspire the liberal utilitarianism that we champion today. The best examples are various Hellenic poleis, first and foremost Athens. The traditional political factions of today would surely call themselves democratic, but is that really the case? If the people vote for less immigrants, against more influence for Brussels, traditional parties will blame ‘populism’. The people are fooled by demagogues, thus concludes political paternalism.
I’d say let politicians regain respect for the people once more, or they should renounce democracy all together. Only when that hypocracy has been resolved, one may or may not be happy about any results.
Losing only 10%-12%, is not a big deal for the pro-WEUCorp parties. Regretfully, there are many people in Europe that belive in the tall story “European Union” and are incapable understanding reality:
The West European Usurers Corporation (disguised as “European Union”) that was prompt to support the Usurers (“banks”) to the expense of the peoples in Europe managed to escape a leathal blow. However, the victory of Gaulist FN in France threatens the core of the WEUCorp. since it sends a clear message to the Vichy-style regime in Paris that more appeasement to the 4th Reich beast is not affordable.
Regarding Greece, the neo-nazi Golden Dawn Party would have had no chance of success provided that the Judicial Authorities functioned without political bias/intervention. The GDParty got revived support after the leak of a video showing the then Secretary of the Cabinet Baltakos, in a private discussion with GDParty MP Kassidiaris, contending that the High Court Prossecutor who is Christian was misled by some informers about the anti-christian believes of the GDParty leadership; that’s why she ordered the prossecution and imprisonment of the leadership of GDParty. It is hard to witnessing 3 MEPs from a neo-nazi Party from Greece (two of them ex-military officers), a country that paid the heaviest toll in blood during the WW II due to this ideology.
Regarding Juncker’s statement: “Unlike what’s being said in some parts of the media, the extreme right didn’t win the elections. In all countries, pro-European forces, if you add up the results of the liberal, the greens, etc., clearly won the elections.”
a) True: the extreme right didn’t win the elections.
b) In Greece, if you add up the results, the anti-Memoranda, anti-WEUCorp parties scored a clear victory by 2/3 of the votes. Similar defeats of the pro-WEUCorp(“EU”) forces are clear in Spain, Portugal, Italy and the UK
If the West European Usurers Corporation fails to get the message clear (CITIZENS FIRST, usurers dumped), there would be no more elections for “EU” Parliaments in 5years….
@George & Harmonica,
If not mistaken, your opinion seems to mirror what is termed “EU skeptics or EU concerned”. It is clear the “pro Euro” supporters- through whatever their traditional reasons- are the majority & ensure that the status quo will continue. How than reform this system? Is it hopeless & a dead end? If the EU cannot be reformed- better lobby for dissolution & start from scratch?
Without going into too many details, the varied views are not sufficiently formulated and packaged into a single representative EU party. The distortions begin already in the home countries- through the limited available local options. The use of a surrogate local party to express greater EU issues is just incompatible! The dice is thrown at narrow local level, with the hope that somebody, somehow will manage to find consensus by “horse trades” in the greater EUP sphere. Not so?
The EUP rests on a “2-tier voting” system- which does not express the will of people satisfactorily. That needs change! EU voter’s participation of a dismal ~43% is in fact a rejection of the present EU, the EU Council’s design, form & system. One of several item on such a “reform agenda” should be to reform that distant 2-tier voting system radically!
Such a ‘low turn out election’ should be ruled invalid, until something in the region of >50-60% is achieved! As a result, the “EU Council- its think tank/architects” received a “red card” & sent back to their “sin bin”- to present something better & more acceptable to all. But- they do not see it that way!
I consider bickering & debates about the varied issues until than might be fun for many, create a democratic feeling to some, filling media spaces, but wastes time, distracts & prolongs the final act of reform.
What do “they” think? Throw some bones to the hyenas to keep them busy- while the lions feast on the meat! No, we hyenas must forget the bones & eat the lions!
A better option needs finally be approved- through a new Y/N referendum in all member counties. How else will one overcome this Gordian knot?
How else will one overcome this Gordian knot?
Simply by following Alexander’s path: by destroying it!
The West European Usurers Corporation (WEUCorp – disguised as “European Union”) shall be demolished and a new confederal or international organization should take its place. Better to shift powers to the Council of Europe (the only international institution at the Continent that is pro-human rights oriented). The WEUCorp cares for the casino-bond euro-currency and not for human rights. Therefore, we have no reason to support it.-
PS Friendly advice: do not “label” each one as “euro-sceptic”, “pro-european”, “anti-european” etc; it’s the best way to misunderstand complicated and variable political conditions.
@Debating Europe
It is with some regret & surprise that my effort to engage the two last commentators in a factual but jovial debate about the EU systems did not meet with your perceived responsibility as tasked moderators. It ended in your dust bin!
No commentator was abused- only the present EU system “de-glorified”! Undemocratic?
A public, frank & explanatory response & critique on any of my/our improper judged comments would be most welcome. Not to worry- I am less sensitive than all the historical & present architects of the final EU systems!
My own moderated version will follow & trust it could be acceptable to you, the Friends of Europe & the co- financiers of Debating Europe- the European Parliament’s grant programme.
……thank you DB- digital hick ups? Trust in your impartiality restored- doubts removed! Great, let the EUP grant program finance their own downfall!
@ George Yiannitsiotis- thanks!
In terms of already existent EUP movements/parties- where would you slot the “confederal org” into? Where is its distinct home within your local Greek landscape? In EU terms are we talking: http://www.eurallfree.org/ ? Eurosceptics – (e.g. EUD, EAF)?
Isn’t “labeling” required to identify/match ones philosophy with an existing movement- wherever hidden? Although the “EU” and Europe have similar names, they have a different meaning to me. Agreed, much time & effort has gone into political pondering & alternatives over decades. Have they matured enough, became sufficiently popular to reach the masses & achieve political appeal and expose and counter the destruction of the “WEU Corp” hurricanes blowing from the rampant- “so labelled”- neo liberal Wild West?
Lets consider the other side of the coin: your own suffering country Greece and how it morphed into modernity, since the much loved Zorba the Greek hit the screens in 1964:
“Greece is a poor country with rich people”- who do not pay taxes!” Probably heard that before? Any opinion- remember one of these articles?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/wealthy-greeks-still-dodging-taxes-despite-crisis-a-864703.html
“Undeclared income from self-employed Greeks amounted to €28 billion in 2009, more than 10 percent of the country’s gross domestic product that year. The state lost €11.2 billion Euros in tax revenues as a result.” True or false- or? The “mobile class” has to be prevented effectively to relocate to global tax havens when squeezed & no blackmailing! Close them all down on earth! Moon, Mars or Jupiter would be too uncomfortable! Greed breeds dishonesty & destroys society!
1. Regarding tax evasion in Greece and corruption pl. read this https://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/04/17/pussy-riot-putins-russia/#comment-141186
2. The political groups at the EUP are becoming more and more historically irrelevent; therefore, there is no use of getting involved in further analysis on the matter. The pro-“EU” are defacto supportive of a usurers corrupted regime and supranational bureaucracy; the anti-EU are not by default pro-human rights and pro-European.
3. “Do not try to describe using words; he who tries to describe using words will never get enlightment in life” (Zen)
@George Yiannitsiotis,
thank you- your referred comments- generally acceptable! Quo Vadis Europe?- but:
1) Tax evasion & corruption: “Fakelaki- a flaw in Greek culture” is a documented & historical fact- labeled even by Greeks a “national sport”. Every country must shoulder their history & accept to be “labeled” – that is life! e.g.: N-Europe folklore: the further south & east one travels Plutocracy increases exponentially…..!?
Mitigating factors: since Roman times and mismanagement in Ottoman occupied Greece increased tax resistance and became a form of patriotism. “Fakelaki” was shamefully “aided & abated” within the OECD/Germany and a legal tax deductable input until reconsidered in 1996. Ever heard that the HRC, religious & other morally concerned institutions were lobbying laud & clear against such practice?
Comment to: “We have a better solution- (who is we?) & “reparations from Germany”: -Germany was to pay the Allies US$23 billion. Greece was not part of the Allies! You know history too well!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations
Remember: The Marshall plan allocated 5 bio- eventual extended to $12.4 billion in aid over four years. The first substantial aid went to Greece and Turkey in January 1947. Greece received 376 mioDollar, Italy agreed to pay reparations of about US$125 million to Yugoslavia, US$105 million to Greece. Not happy?
Earlier in the Greco-Turkish War (1897), defeated Greece was forced to pay a large war indemnity to Turkey (£4 million)- forever friends since than?
Is it propaganda of Historians or facts:
“By 1947, approximately 4,000,000 German POWs and civilians were used as forced labor) in the Soviet Union, France, the UK, Belgium and in US Germany.
The United States pursued a vigorous program of harvesting all technological and scientific know-how as well as all patents and many leading scientists in Germany
(Operation Paperclip)” Enemies forever? Have the Greeks not learned to reconcile with all their inherited humanity? No?- than please forget your dream of the CoE! Heard the Germans/Axis lament non stop since 1945?
2) You see as solution the empowerment of the “Council of Europe” (CoE est. 1949/London by ten, now already 47) taking over from the EU in an “orderly manner” (meaning the EUP has to legislate itself out of its over decade long existence) & finally dissolve into thin air? The CoE has grown to 47 countries, Russia, Turkey & some Asia Minor included- cloning the EU into an even bigger monster? Good luck to your opinion & your 5 year prediction!
I respectfully disagree with such Utopia! The EU has an engine- its “economy”! The CoE has sutras, doctrines, “Human Rights”- maybe emphasis on “suchness” to lead into Nirvana? It is the very expansionist tendency of both the CoE of47 & the EU of 28 members which causes all the grief in voters! Sorry, unacceptable architecture once more!
3) “….he who tries to describe using words” …what other than words describes your “WEUCorp”, Usurers etc? I have no problem with your labeling- but also trust in my grandmothers habit of labeling conscientiously her different jars of jams during her life- maybe similar to the habits of your Zorba?
1. “Germany was to pay the Allies US$23 billion. Greece was not part of the Allies! You know history too well!”
Greece not only was part of the Allies but paid the heaviest toll ratio in blood and damages above all allies. 7bn USD (1947) was (according to the UN estimation) the damage caused by Germany to Greece. The London Treaty (1953) postponed the payment till the re-unification of Germany. The neo-nazionalist German political-economic elite considers that bribing the Greek political elite via the infamous Siemens AG and other German MNCs would avert this nightmare for them. Wrong perception. We may forgive; we never forget! The Marshal Plan is irrelevent to the matter of WW II Reparations as well as to the Occupation Loans (1942-3).-
2. What did the allies to the German population in occupied Germany is also irrelevent to what owes Germany to Greece. No Greek soldier landed in Germany; we only fought against the German occupation army in Greece.
3. The empowerment of the Council of Europe will deter the German neo-nazionalist elite from turning Germany once again against the peoples of Europe. Besides, it will empower an Organization that promotes and primarily protects Human Rights (in the contrary, the “EU” has turned against basic human rights in the debt-slave countries like Greece, eroding their Constitutional Order). Furthermore, the destruction of the “EU” would mean the disappearance of the corruption-spreading machinery of the EU Commission described in previous comment (25-50-20-5). I can’t see any damage but gain from such a development.
4. “The EU has an engine- its “economy”!” Right; an economy based in the casino-bond euro-“currency” that inflames “growth” for the usurers (“banks”) but misery/poverty/famine/deprivation of basic Human Rights for at least 3/4 of the population at the periphery. This is not acceptable and it is a matter of time to collapse as all bubbles blow up at the end!
5. Labeling products is a simple, clear procedure. Labeling ideas is a cage that imprisons ideas to narrow limits that deprive them of their momentum and virtue. Ideas and imagination are like Iris rainbow: they combine many, contradictory some times, trends and contents that vary from dark to light in all collors one can imagine and see. In order to be able to see the rainbow, one shall not wear monochrome glasses!
@ George Yiannitsiotis
Thank you, “Greece & the Allies”; maybe a bit unkind of me to exclude Greece from the “Big Three” a none participant in the three wartime conferences (Tehran, Yalta & Potsdam & more) & therefore relegated to “satellite status” together with many others. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/potsdam-conf
While some think 1945 or 1990 was the end of it with Greece- new hardships easily rekindle old wounds. Lets wait & see! . “Good luck” to such attempt to redress history- when old wounds start hurting once more.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/04/greece-pressures-germany-wwii-reparations-201442683740820822.html
Many of us are however deeply concerned of the future global trend- emanating from the US- where co-operation with global companies/banks and government is misused- turning modern democracies into co-opted business empires! Abdicating its first & foremost responsibility towards its voters in the process! It’s fitting “label” is well known!
Opinions of your group need to be taken into account to demonstrate how far apart Europe actually is with its “rosy” integration policy. In the end rejected by many- but with different reasons!
To seriously consider all these irreconcilable attitudes, inherent inequalities in a range of spheres, festering revenge & even hate which is still alive and well in the “un-united EU”- would be worth a pause to cool the temperature. Even forming different groupings between states having reached similar maturities – would be better medicine! Give others time enough to sort themselves out first- without cheating when knocking!
“More history’s made by secret handshakes than by battles, bills, and proclamations.”