The Geneva agreement on defusing the crisis in Ukraine is dead, according to the Kremlin. Ukraine has already accused Russia of undermining the de-escalation process, but now the Russian government has declared the agreement to be in tatters after Ukraine launched a major operation to push separatist gunmen out of Slavyansk in the east of the country. Reports suggest government troops are clearing barricades from around the city, despite two helicopters being shot down by rebels during the assault.
On Wednesday 4th June Debating Europe will be partnering with the Security & Defence Agenda for its major annual conference “Overhauling transatlantic security thinking”, taking place in Brussels from 14:30 to 18:30. In preparation for the event, Debating Europe is launching a series of online debates on the topics that will be discussed during the conference. Today we’ll be looking at the Ukrainian crisis.
We’ve received thousands of comments on the crisis in Ukraine, and we’ve be interviewing policy-makers to get their reactions (most recently the Slovakian and Maltese Foreign Ministers), but we have not, until today, published responses from the Ukrainian or Russian governments. However, earlier this week we spoke to Ihor Dolhov, Ambassador of Ukraine to NATO. How would he react to some of your comments?
We started with a comment sent in by Limbidis, who argued that the EU would like to help Ukraine but was limited in what it could do without escalating the situation. He did not want to see a war break out, so he thought visa sanctions from the EU and US were the only option left. How would Dolhov respond?
Next, we had a comment from Alex from Germany, who thought Europe should leave Russia and Ukraine to resolve their dispute between themselves and should stay strictly neutral. He does not believe Russia poses a threat to Germany, so cannot understand why Germany should be taking sides:
Russia and my country could never get involved in a conflict if it wasn’t for NATO. We have no resources, we have no common cultural background… we don’t have Russian minorities [and] when it comes to our military we aren’t a threat either…
Ambassador Dolhov responded that failure to react to Russia’s actions would lead to a more violent and dangerous international order. He argued that this was not a bilateral issue, but rather an issue of international peace and security. Russia was encouraged by the lack of a strong reaction to the conflict with Georgia in 2008, which Dolhov believed undermined the global security system and led directly to the situation today.
But how would he respond to the comment from Maike, who argued that Russia was merely defending its geo-strategic interests in the region, and the crisis was sparked by clumsy EU foreign policy. Was the crisis caused by the possibility that Ukraine might one day join the EU and NATO? Here’s Maike’s comment:
Dolhov dismissed this suggestion completely. He argued that Ukraine is a free country and can take decisions for itself, and that it was up to Ukraine to decide what international organisations they are members of, not Russia.
We had a similar comment made by Alex, however, arguing that EU membership for Ukraine was just as unacceptable to Russia as NATO membership. Ambassador Dolhov responded that Moscow was drawing too many “red lines” for Ukraine, and this wasn’t a zero-sum game. He believed that everybody – including Russia – would benefit from stronger Ukrainian integration with Europe.
Finally, the ambassador was very clear that there was no situation which would warrant EU or NATO peacekeepers being deployed to Ukraine. Whilst he welcomed non-military support from Europe, he rejected any suggestion that foreign troops could become involved.
We do not want any country or organisation to deploy military forces on our territory. We are self-sufficient in this regard. Ukraine has a strong army, and if – though nobody wants this to happen – but if Ukrainian borders are crossed by Russian troops, we will protect our country.
We’ve put together a timeline of the main events on the ground and the international response in the infographic below (and you can click on the image for a larger version).
Should the EU let Moscow and Kiev resolve this crisis between themselves? Or would failure to take a stand lead to a more unstable and dangerous international order? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.
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442 comments Post a commentcomment
NO !!! EU should take action against the russians !
Why only Russia should be actioned against? Why not failing EU politics? Why not Ukrainian coup d’état? Why not US politics?
you should dont speek if you dont know the truth
dangerous international order? Stop trying to reword what you really mean-A NEW WORLD ORDER!
A NEW WORLD ORDER is only the united states and a few friends ruling the whole world, which they really do anyway. Because of what the U S borrows to spend on military equipment. They spend more than all other countries put together. And guess who owns all of U S resources?
Your attempt pains me and scares me all the same… This is experiencing first hand what knowledge in the hands of the uneducated can become. :(
Why ? 70 MILLION people died in WW1-2 .. Considering the US/EU supported some very shady people in Kiev that carried out an illegal coup, Europe is supporting the same people responsible for WW2 in Kiev.
To andreas!
And makes you point valid!
More than 70 million people died. Over 200 million died in Russia alone during WWII.
Why the world powers are not paying attention to Isreal’s land grab of Palestinian land their just building homes on Palestinian land like people don’t exist. I don’t see any outrage over that. Seems like the same issue to me . besides I’m sick and tired of the Israeli prime minister be be or what I call him big baby crying all the time.anf coming to the United States without permission from our president was totally disrespect always whining to the us.grow some balls and stand on your own for a change.we are Americans.we have enough problems of our own.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-was-a-playbook-cia-coup-detat/5371296
And again: Russia has to be stopped once and forever.
Why don’t the world allow Ukraine to vote on what or who is to stay in their government?
why does Russia has to be stopped? Simple. The western world needs an enemy to unite against and Russia has conveniently done something to undermine western values and beliefs.
Try to open your eyes and look outside your eurocentric world view. Other countries live differently, have different values and there is no need for either US or EU to impose their ways upon other countries. Besides, the issue in Ukraine is presented very differently in the western media to what it really is. As a Ukrainian living in a western country I am appalled by how narrow and arrogant the mind set is in the West.
I admire mr.putin.he’s a great leader. He didn’t fall for the United States and their allies tricks. While he was hosting the social Olympics.they tried to creep up in his backyard. They got busted. He made them look stupid.everything my country touch turns to shit.and you can never destroy a country three times the size of the United States. And with more nuclear weapons than we have.it will be all over for the whole world. Is Ukraine a country that has been corrupted for a very long time. And the western part of that country supported nazis in world War two. Are they worth the world ending. Hell no.they did this to themselves . and probably deserves it.
As an American the only aggression I see is US aggression. Putin took over a state in ruins, & managed to make it a global power. All you Russiaphobes a) don’t know US regime changes and CIA coups around the globe, b) can’t distinguish the difference between communism and Russia c) watch Hollywood blockbusters with “good” Americans and “bad” Russians.
PS. I was stationed in a US naval base in Greece. I know all the shady interventions we get into. Ex. The “humanitarian” war in Yugoslavia. That’s why we have military bases all over the world. To steal natural resources
Heard about Euromaidan? Yes, Euromaidan not Asiamaidan or Africamaidan … Ukraine has made an option. It’s only Germany who wants us to do nothing because, you know, they love Russia. Merkel & Putin are in love just like Hitler & Stalin, until they grab some lands only, if you know what I mean.
Before lessoning the Germans about nazis you should get your own nazi problems solved or aren t you from Hungary?
No Alex, he is from Romania and while we did have our nazi COLABORATORS we did not rip countries apart and then made a 180 degree turn and claimed that evil Hitler attacked us like Russia did.
Molotov knew very well what he was signing with Ribbentrop.
Limbidis, Have you bee paying any attention at all? First of all, not only did Hungary have Nazi collaborators, Horthy was on the same side as Hitler until he knew that Germany was losing and he himself would be caught in it all. Then he switched sides! 180? Try a 360 degree turn then now Hungary wants to change the way Hungary is perceived in History. Hence the midnight erection of the controversial memorial in Budapest that depicts Hungary as a “victim” of Nazi Germany! Hungary still refuses to take responsibility for their part in the Holocaust.
Heard about ANTI-maidan? Yes, it was in the same time when Euromaidan, but people from anti-maidan were ignored all over the county because they did not had any support from outside.
West Europe is as stupid and impotent today as in 1938-39.
I don’t support the coup government in Ukraine.
If Romania want to fight Russia, off you go, but don’t try to drag us along in your Russophobic adventure
I’m very curious, what actions exactly do some people propose to take against Russia? Economic? Military? Economic actions would backfire against our own economy, which isn’t in its best shape anyway. And as for military, are you nuts? How about stop being USA’s puppet already?
AMEN to stop being USA’s PUPPET!!
Well if the EU will keep licking Putins you know what, once it will simply find out, that the EU got renamed to Russian Federation.
It’s all not about economics and money, it’s the decision to let the Empire of Evil do what it want, or stop it no matter what it takes.
You are describing the US? right?
Now the EU has the opportunity to defend it’s future on a non EU territory, but what will the EU say, when Putin will decide to “protect the Russian-speaking minority” on the lands of the EU?
I can count in Russian and know some 30 or so words- would that impress Putin to come and “protect” me?!
To put it bluntly, I think ‘national’ territorial integrity is much too overrated. Could it be that this model has lived beyond its usefulness? Yes it brought stability and structure (in Europe at least, for the most part), but it often seems disconnected to social and environmental realities. So what if Belgium implodes in its parts, if Catalonia separates, or if Ukraine splits? At least, in the case of the former two, they won’t go anywhere: they are still part of Europe. My main concern by writing this, is that in the last decade, national governments appear to have been in reactive mode, often putting sticks in the wheel, when addressing our increasingly complex global problems. National governments are starting to appear like a redundant, inefficient, layer of middle management when it is time to take the lead for the collective good of anything beyond the narrow national level. The issue of global warming is particularly startling. Cities and various local governments are taking steps, the EU is making longer term visions and goals, but (maybe aside from Germany) most countries are reluctant to move. Maybe a new model of European governance is due: one based on the dual approach of increased localism, regionalism, even bio-regionalism, in order to take necessary and context-dependent action, based on the wider EU governance to insure some level of alignment on visions, goals, standards, freedoms, and synergy in action. Not a Europe of 28, but a new Europe of 500+? A first step would be for the EU to allow regions – and why not, even cities, like Brussels – to join outside the framework of the nation. In my humble opinion, this option would provide greater diversity, flexibility, sensibility to the local context, a flatter structure, and thus greater democracy.
Great
Well there’s a very simple reason why all this separatism frenzy in Europe is bad for us.
It FRAGMENTS the union further instead of integrating it.
To make an analogy: 28 voices are easier to reconcile than say…56.
And “Europe of 500+” would mean we would almost NEVER reach a consensus and be stuck in continuous limbo – EXACTLY what Russia wants.
Not posing an economic threat to them, to the chinese or americans.
What EU are you talking about here… There is no EU whatsoever and you people just showed that to the World as Russia invaded Crimea… Get real for a change nazi’s are chewing on Europe again and everyone is simply watching…albeit “deeply concerned”. Stop the bully now!
The Nazi’s are chewing on the American Continent big time.
Obviously, NATO and US send their troops to most of countries surrounding such as Estonia, Poland and Latvia to pressure on Russia for any susceptible interfere in Ukraine. They think, this way may motivate Putin to surround or go back in his decisions. But unfortunately, it wouldn’t be happened with Russia. I think the only way to solve Ukrainian’s crisis is political peaceful solution, away from US.
I totally agree
Gabor, please, you have to say to me what you smoke, I want the same xDDD
You cracked me up with this one ;)
Europe Union, acording with NATO allies, with Lithuania (ex-soviet country) in the presidence, organized the EU-East Europe Group meeting.
That was the first move in the ukranian situation. Western is trying to earn territory, resources and market, and is trying to take it from russian’s back side.
Cold War continues in other ways… So, What shoud EU do? I will tell my opinion: to take the hands out from Russia’s buissnes.
Ukranian people is russian people, at least at south-east half of the country. Maybe some people doesn’t know that the word Ukraine comes frome Kraina, that it means ‘landmark’. So, it was the landmark when Russia defeats the Otomans (turkish) in the north coast of the Black Sea.
It’s true that the other half of the country has been under Austria-Hungary empire util the end of the First World War… and the have another point of view about everything. So, we have to nations: the real russian’s landmark or Ukraine and the other part, the pro-european, the territory that AustroHungarians called Rutenia or Galitzia…
So, maybe the best choice it’s to divided that huge territory (Ukraine is bigger than France or Spain) in the two nations that in fact exists…
But for sure the best thing it’s to stop what EU and USA does now: giving money to the fascist in Kiev.
And what will be the name of this new country formed by the Ukrainians who speak Ukrainian and who are Slavs like the Russians? (because Slav and Russian are not synonyms). So Ukraine only defines itself based on Russia (and the extinct Soviet Union) or the Austro-Hungarian Empire?
Empire of Evil? Please…. Time to stop with the US propaganda and scare tactics already. The fact is that the current Ukraine government came to power with a coup with the help of neo-nazi and faschist elements and groups and is being puppeteered by the US.
Funny, there is no proof that Right Sector has any power anymore, unless you listen to RT 24/7 and eat their propaganda.
Second Putin is so “worried” about nazis…that he ignores the 150,000 in his OWN country that attack LGBT groups , individuals and non-russians.
A real charm these people are.
Third, there is so much “love” for Russia in the South-East that a report by the Ukrainian census bureau ( which you will say is “Kiev biased” of course ) showed 70% of people answered “NO!” when asked if they want to join Russia.
I bet a referendum at gun point will yield communist era numbers of 99% for the Dear leader…errr.. i mean Putin.
Fourth: the people in southern Ukraine are NOT ukrainians with some guns.
They are TRAINED armed forces of RUSSIA.
They just took out two MILITARY helicopters for crying out loud. And unless you can buy AA handheld launchers in Ukraine i smell a russian rat.
FIFTH !
All neo-nazi parties: BNP, Front National, Geert Wilders, Jobbik,etc have shown SUPPORT for Putin and “observed” his so-called referendum.
WHY?
If he is anti-nazi he should be their enemy, right?
Doesn’t it seem suspicious to you?
WHO are the real nazis here?
You are spot on with this one Limbidis!
USA go home!
Eu should take action and EU should reconsider their dependency on Russian energy.
Yup, too bad we have to topple Assad in order to get Saudi Gas.
To put it bluntly, I think ‘national’ territorial integrity is much too overrated. Could it be that this model has lived beyond its usefulness? Yes it brought stability and structure (in Europe at least, for the most part), but it often seems disconnected to social and environmental realities. So what if Belgium implodes in its parts, if Catalonia separates, or if Ukraine splits? At least, in the case of the former two, they won’t go anywhere: they are still part of Europe. My main concern by writing this, is that in the last decades, national governments appear to have been in reactive mode, often putting sticks in the wheel, when addressing our increasingly complex global problems. National governments are starting to appear like a redundant, inefficient, layer of middle management when it is time to take the lead for the collective good of anything beyond the narrow national level. The issue of global warming is particularly startling. Cities and various local governments are taking steps, the EU is making longer term visions and goals, but (maybe aside from Germany) most countries are reluctant to move. Maybe a new model of European governance is due: one based on the dual approach of increased localism, regionalism, even bio-regionalism, in order to take necessary and context-dependent action, based on the wider EU governance to insure some level of alignment on visions, goals, standards, freedoms, and synergy in action. Not a Europe of 28, but a new Europe of 500+? A first step would be for the EU to allow regions – and why not, even cities, like Brussels – to join outside the framework of the national state. In my humble opinion, this option would provide greater diversity, flexibility, sensibility to the local context, a flatter structure, and thus greater democracy.
So no. Europe should not meddle militarily in the name of territorial integrity. Europe should make it attractive for any part of Ukraine to join the EU, and send all the democratic and civil rights tools and institutions it has to support any transition peacefully and get help from the OECD for example. Lets remember that common people do not usually have an interest in war.
@Yannick Cornet
“…Not a Europe of 28, but a new Europe of 500+?…”
What are you talking about ? A divided united European UNION ? What good all the graves from WWI and WWII then ? Imagine a broken to pieces Europe busy in local disputes what “easy meal” for Russia will be. There will be no Catalonia, nor Brussels if that will ever happen. You probably are from far western Europe and have no idea what russians are capable in bad terms of course. Instead, Europe should start investing in a real military shield on the eastern part of Union.
The EU is defenseless. Spend more on high politics and increase input to NATO budget. Protect aspiring countries (Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine) which, as anyone who have eyes can notice, have been destabilized on purpose by Russia for decades.
So yes. Europe should care, but no, Europe should not meddle militarily in the name of territorial integrity. Europe should make it attractive for any part of Ukraine to join the EU, and send all the democratic and civil rights tools and institutions it has to support any transition peacefully, and get help from the OECD for example. Let’s remember that common people do not usually have an interest in war.
If we don’t do nothing now in Ukraine the next battle can take place in Romania or Poland. Russia does not care about Ukrainian citizens.
Russia cares what they have always cared about – CONTROL of the Black Sea and making it an “inner sea”.
Ever since Ecatherina the Great they have tried this.
If Ukraine falls, the next “prize” will be the Danube river and the ports there – which are part of Romania.
If they do that NATO will *have* to get involved or be considered a joke and disband sending a shockwave of panic throught the continent.
That’s why it best we stop Putler NOW, economically, grind his military advance to a halt before this thing blows in our face.
WORSE – America elections are nearing an the new president may not be as “lenient” to Russia. If we get a hawk in the Oval office get ready for trouble.
Yannick Cornet it’s easy to say that EU should be making it attractive to join the EU. I think for the most part people do want it. The problem is the Russian speaking population simply doesn’t want it. They’d rather be part of Russia. So keeping that in mind it’s going to be lots of violence against Ukrainian citizens by the pro Russian crowd as the Ukraine is struggling to join the EU
Yannic, sounds nice. But are we ready for such a system? What if it will lead to a total separation of regions and a new turn in the global geopolitics, where people will be unable to have the level of freedom they have today? Maybe I’m wrong, but I think it’s really possibele.
Ana Georgieva, Russia go home!
Everybody is doing exactly the same as 24 years ago when Milosevic started 9 years long grab of territories for Serbia in 4 neighboring countries. Anywhere you look is the same scenario, on the ground, in the news for the public elsewhere and behind the scenes political decisions. Actually, one thing is missing, sanctions on Ukraine because they may hurt poor aggressor, since sanctions were imposed on Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo… while Serbia had as much weapons Russia has.
Question is, would world send Ukraine’s politicians and generals to international Court in Hague if they, 5 years from now, take back territory aggressor occupied or will occupy in next 6 months of aggression, after Russia, just as Serbia did, sends more tanks, more soldiers and more support?
Sooner or later, if the sh*& hits the fan over there, Europe will be affected one way or another.. Support Ukraine but avoid a hot conflict at all costs.. Bring on the UN.. Engage other blocks and regions to gather support against Russian aggression…
Usually people forget to speak about many things (you can check Hemerotecs, history articles, wikipedia, news from different point of views, etc). I spent many hours reading about this and asking Ukrainians (Russian-ethnic-Ukrainians, pro-Europe, by the way, although more pro Switzerland than pro-EU; and also to Ukrainian-ethnic-Ukrainians, not happy with new government)
1) they found gas in front of Ukrainian coasts (this was going to break dependence on Russian gas, probably being exploited by american companies, Europeans will pay the same or even more; and Russians were going to loose money)
2) U$A want to deploy their missile “defense” system in Ukraine, really close to Moscow (and probably pointing there)… well, I guess in Russia they are not quite happy with this… Why they started with this many years ago, when there were no problems with Russia? Because it is a good business, and in U$ they don’t care about if there is a war, Europe is in the middle.
3) That part of Ukraine was part of Russia until 1954, when Khrushchev (Soviet Union general secretary, Ukrainian) had given it to Ukraine.
4) that part of Ukraine is populated mostly by Russian ethnic persons, they speak Russian, and new Ukrainian government banned that language, although they said they were Ukrainians (now maybe that changed, thanks to the new government).
5) a coalition temporal government was negotiated between UE, Russia and even U$ (at least, that’s what they said, although it seems U$ mercenaries were found -check news)… but in the middle of (the legitimate) Maidan protests there were some radical/fascists groups looking for power, like the Ultra-nationalist far-right group “Right Sector”, one of the groups carrying Nazi flags (maybe they think in Europe we are all nazis, and we are NOT, even it is against law in advanced countries like Germany, one of the reasons because I admire German people)… are those groups the future EU immigrants? Please, NO, I don’t want neighbours like them (and I repeat that most Ukrainians I’ve meet in Switzerland were really cool, both Russian-Ukrainians and Ukrainian-Ukrainians).
6) the west of Ukraine has a lot of carbon mines and metal industry, producing cheaper than the same mines in Germany… Unfortunately, this mines produce a lot of pollution, and if Ukraine join the EU, the EU law will force to close them (and, oh, great, less problems for some German corporations). And the miners working in Ukraine know it.
7) Putin is not a good guy, of course he’s not, but Russians were selling gas to Ukraine cheaper than the gas sold to EU, because of the Crimea bases agreement… so, maybe they were not enemies…
8) Ukraine hat two IMF loans (I think it was on 2009 and 2011), but the result was not good (they have a big debt now). More loans won’t be a solution.
Well, now you have a bit more of information. I DON’T want to participate in a war like this, nor pay it: a war for economic reasons (Germany + US vs. Russia) and between Obama vs. Putin, who are measuring who has more power, and they doesn’t care at all about EU, Ukraine or other countries around.
I really believe in a future with a new EU, worrying of EU citizens, and collaborating with (even maybe including) countries like Ukraine and Russia… why we have to be enemies???
good point!
You write many falsehoods regarding this.
1. Yes they found gas, but the Americans would have nothing to do with it unless someone employed a US based company to extract the gas. This would have meant many jobs for Ukrainians and would definitely have made Europe and Ukraine energy independent, which Russia does not want.
2. There was NEVER any intent on putting a missile defense system in Ukraine, they put one in Poland.
3. This point you make is accurate.
4. This part of Ukraine heavily depends on Russia for its news considering most of the population is Russian, however, Russia exaggerated the language laws which in fact Kiev did NOT ban the Russian language. They only suggested that the Ukrainian language be used in regional and municipal institutions. The reports about Kiev banning the Russian language is simply soviet style propaganda to stir tensions and gain support from Russian speakers in Ukraine.
5. Most of this statement again comes from the soviet style propaganda being fed to the people in east Ukraine.
6. This also is not entirely true, there are probably more environmental laws in the EU regarding mining, but they also provide a lot of funds to ensure their countries meet standards, however, as with many of the EU countries in the eastern Europe, they are not followed to the letter of the law anyway.
7. Russia holds energy dependent countries hostage virtually every way possible, they certainly did not offer cheaper gas to Ukraine because of the goodness of their heart.
8. Debt is a fact of life, and certainly being under Russian control will not give them financial independence either.
No one wants to be enemies, and all this crap about the US being involved is just Putins pissing contest. He did not want the EU to have closer economic ties to the US and wanted to continue to influence through aggression. The shit really hit the fan when the EU started to have trade talks with the US. This is entirely the Russian bear having a hissy fit.
Christos, 100% proper solution.
The EU has meddled in Ukrain and made a mess out of it, just like they meddled in Kosovo and made a mess out of it, in the meantime giving Russia the perfect excuse to annex the Krim. The EU has been acting as an elephant in a china shop, headed by Euro-euphoric people like Verhofstadt who are no longer connected to real life. Fact is Ukrain needs help to protect the country from itself, its ocrrupt leaders, its fascits movements and its incompetent leaders. But foremost Ukrain has to respect its big Russian minority and it doesn’t. So Russia rightfully protects Russians against the coup leaders from Kiev (a coup it is as they are not democratically elected and forced the previous president out by putting guns to the heads of parliament members (figure of speech). This is not democracy, but an armed gang who seized power.). The EU has to start understanding that it has reached the limits of arrogance, and will pay a hefty price for it: a most likely dirty war in Ukrain. Where will verhostadt, Van Rompuy and Barosso be then? Still shouting on Maidan square that the EU is with them and deliver arms like they do now in Syria to the jihadists and other extremists?
RUssia must be stopped. No appeasement any more.
US and EU-SSR foreign policy has no credibility whatsoever. See the last 10 years for starters.
NATO is a relic of the past. The recent comment from NATO that Russia is more enemy than friend shows this – what time-zone does this person live in?
NATO has served its purpose and it is now time to move on.
NATO must be replaced by EU Joint Force and USA can request to join, if they wish.
We can all see that the world is very small and any idiot that presses the nuclear bomb button will kill the world – a 10 year old already knows this.
Russia is a friend of the EU and any EU person that challenges this (including the USA) is not progressive to the ideals of the EU – we learn from the past – we should not live in the past.
Conflict is the mindset and actions of extremists – left or right, it is the same thing. Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, the EU has no place for extremists.
EU should open its doors to any Ukrainian that wishes to leave Ukraine and live in, and share, the ideals of a moderate, tolerant and forward thinking EU.
Wars solve nothing and the EU should not support this – if you point a gun, you must expect one to be pointed back at you. Does the biggest gun really solve the problem or does it simply suppress and impose your views?
Has the EU learned nothing from recent wars that it supported – Iraq, Libya?
Are these wonderful places of Western democracy now?
Caring is not sending guns.
Caring is accepting those that do not support :
– conflict or extremists
– left or right
– pro Russian or not
– pro Kiev or not
A conflict mindset keeps the EU and the rest of humanity in the past.
I, for one, have no time for people that wish to bash down the door of my home and force me to choose sides. I wish to live in peace with everyone, listen to their stories, share laughter and learn new things. As an EU citizen, is this too much to ask for?
I wish there were more people like you!!!!
Mary
Alex Tselentis, really, IIWW started in Kiev? If you russians try to do propaganda, at least LEARN something!
USA + ISRAEL + EU = Imperialism.
You must ask yourself a simple question: do i want cake? … Or death.
Ukraine borders EU on its western flank, that’s Why Europe should interviene, to support Ucraine against Russia…. No one wants a new USSR
Because it caused the whole damned thing?
Europe is for peaceful coexistence, and in any part of our region and elsewhere, we recognize that we live inside the borders dictated by the winners of the last major war(s). We should take care to make sure we are not parties to conflicts for reasons having to do with our past imperialist mistakes, or to support unverified “majorities”. We should encourage peaceful co-existence and take lessons from Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, Northern Spain, Northern Italy, and from the Soviet Union and Germany, Alsace and Lorraine, and the rest of the territories, including Jaemtland and Haerjedalen, and the nomadic Samis of the polar circle. Trying to impose our will, supporting a regime we may think twice about dealing with in peacetime, or again making imperialist moves, looking to expand the borders of the Union, or even just acting out of energy policy motives are all poor justifications for getting involved. If anything, we should make sure that the energy policies of the Union are accelerated towards Independence of foreign petrocarbons. We should monitor and broker peace. We should aggressively enforce and secure the Union borders, also to the South. We should assist in country-building, making sure internal conflicts are not provoked by those who would profit from an arms race, a supply shortage, a reconfiguration of alliances. We should make sure we have a responsible and capable press that collects information on the ground, analyzes, and reports, and do not just copy and paste, missing out on the reality on the ground. We must become Europeans, not the pawns of a distant ally, nor the prisoners of our most provincial co-nationals. We must aspire to Hegemony, and that cannot come unless we start at Home.
@Trond Johannessen
…Europeans, not the pawns of a distant ally, nor the prisoners of our most provincial co-nationals…
Do you feel “prisoner” if eastern part of Europe is dealing with Ukraine conflict ? Maybe eastern part will fall someday under increase russian pressure and you will be the next “provincial co-national”.
Germany has started the sh*t as always financing a state coup in the Ukraine. It’s the rebirth of Ostsiedlung. Germans equal to themselves. And of course Russians are also imperialists, and we all know what happens when two empires clash.
Neutrality is never the answer.
The EU should leave Ukraine and allow Russia and Ukraine to handled and resolved their issues themselves… EU should stop playing the commando in their issues. They are over-stepping their boundaries. Ukraine is Russia Territory.
Are you serious?
What is the next country that Russia decides it is “russian territory” in an EU and NATO country?
Do we still sit back and relax ( because you live in the west of Europe and don’t care )?
Usually all these comments get more “indiferent” the further they are from the conflict. But i can tell you from our perspective it is right next door.
So much so that the govt is getting nervous and implementing laws that have not been applied for 70 years !
Do you want more death
EU should let Ukraine and Russia to solve their problems. But this does not mean that Ukraine is russian territory.
There are not only problems between Kiev and Moscow to be solved, there are first and foremost lots of problems within Ukraine to be solved.. The EU should stop being the puppet on the USA’s string.
Ms. Vermoortel,
As a United States Citizens I would like nothing more than to leave the EU and Eastern Europe to it’s own problems. The problem is that all wars start in Europe and sooner or later “the terrible horrible” Americans have to get involved in it. Or do you not read history? We have spent trillions of dollars over the last 70 years creating a military that would not be challenged so that the peace that was so dearly won in Europe in 1945 would never be challenged again. I am shocked and appalled at the attitudes on the board. Americans would like nothing better than to leave you all to your devices, your ethic hatreds, and nationalistic craziness. We should have done what our founding father Thomas Jefferson said, “do not get embroiled in European conflicts that have gone on for a thousand years” If it were not for our willingness to maintain the peace in Europe for the last 70 years you all would have torn each other apart as you always do. Feckless, ignorant, hate filled people. Russia has not changed, they will kill, rape, and brutalize any people that they conqueror. If Russia is allowed to reconstitute Stalinism in eastern Europe those that live in those states will live under horrific conditions and the darkness of that regime will once again draw the curtain down upon the peoples of Eastern Europe. Why should we as Americans care? I think we should start our own protests in this country that we want nothing to do with Eastern Europe or Western Europe and it’s problems ever again. Let Germany help you just like they did in WW2. Remember that? How many millions did Germany and Russia Kill? How many of you were killed by Americans? Foolish ignorant people. You deserve what you get.
There are not only problems between Kiev and Moscow to be solved, there are first and foremost lots of problems within Ukraine to be solved.. The EU should stop being the puppet on the USA’s string.
Dear Jodi Howard,
You’d better tell us what the USA is doing in Iraq? Maintaining peace as well? How many civilians were killed there or it was just a collateral damage? What about Afghanistan?
Who cares, let them do what they want and then we go with the winner, easy!
Europe you M U S T act in Ukraine ,and bring things again in balance, cause you caused this mass there!!
Is there really a dilemma when in Ukraine neo-nazis are taking over?
Pier Dal Ri doing nothing means we back up Russia. PS: you speak as if you are a really nasty person. Freeloader, or something worse, don’t know, can’t find the right word.
Pier Dal Ri: if your country was have to receive some 10-20 million Ukrainian refugees – or fairly large radioactive fallout from some war-torn Ukrainian nuclear power plant – just because Putin wish to play geopolitics in EUROPE and show some Russian force (never mind what US has been doing in middle-east etc) – you still want to go with the winner? :D
Sorry friends.., ’cause EU ‘ll need again of gas..’till 2020 and after..( Germany and north UE expecially )..!..
I don’t think it is wise for Europe as a whole to accept the limited sovereignty status of buffer countries. Not only it is morally obscene, but also sooner or later it will lead us to war.
In a few days, the situation in Ukraine might explode. Russia will not obliterate Ukraine, it will just use all the means available to make sure that the limited sovereignty status will endure.
Chechnya comes to the mind. Not only on how Russia dealt with it, but also how the european countries deliberately became silent accomplices.
At this point, I guess the EU citizens should consider seriously if they want to be accomplices once again. On the other hand, the ukranians should not try to assert sovereignty on the full territory of the eastern provinces. It’s a lost game. Instead, they should be already defining a new effective border, on their terms, leaving an arbitrarily large north-south corridor available for integration in Russia, concentrating their forces on that new border and unilateraly rescind their sovereignty to the east of that line. Otherwise, they will later be forced to negotiate a ‘federal’ status which will effectively cut their access to the sea, and therefore put the country in a very bad position in the long term.
I know what the EU will do.It will do what the Germans want and by Germans I mean Americans as we are only there poodles…
Honestly every country with a major population and only a little self asteem would have told the US to screw themselfs years ago.In this case my fellow Europeans i have to tell you that we Germans do not own “Balls” and will do exactly what Barack wants us to do and by Barack i mean USA and by USA i mean Blackrock inc,Fidelity and others of this kind.
Racist Alex? Poodles? Yes we should have left you in Ruins in 1945 and where would you be today? You would be speaking Russian if there were any Germans left to speak it.
Let them solve the problem.
Being from Romania i am hearing some very dangerous rhetoric from Russia. Russian propaganda TV stations are spinning the tale that Romania wants to profit of the situation and take back regions lost in WW2 and no part of Ukraine.
First of all this is NOT TRUE. This is just an attempt at trying to stir up trouble between Ukraine and Romania.
Second there have been some very dangerous – so called polish – posters claiming that western Ukraine should go to Poland.
THIS is also VERY dangerous.
Third: Romania is now caught between this russian problem and the ( apparently ) pro-Putin and anti-EU HUNGARIAN leadership.
Hungarian MPs in the EU parliament are known for crying about “ethnic persecution” ( all fake of course as observers exasperated with these people complaining have kept saying ).
While Ukraine is not TECHNICALLY our “responsability”, the recent so-called “protesters anti Kiev” in Odessa , a mere 200km from Romania’s border (!!!) has people here worried.
I live on the border, i can basically DRIVE to Odessa in less than 2 hours.
Russia is showing no signs that it will stop with Ukraine because our ‘sanctions’ amount to wrist slapping Putin for a full aggression.
This is laughable. The capitalism CORRUPTION of Europe ( especially Germany who is willing to trample ALL international law and MORALITY for MONEY ) is mind-boggling.
And please spare me the “but the americans do it too” <—– THIS is NOT an excuse for what Putin is doing.
Romania and not only is always interesting about Bessarabia region (I born here) and after 90th every 10th citizens of this region has Romanian or Bulgarian passport. It was very easy to make
I am also from Romania and grew up 30 km away from the Soviet border in Brăila. I hear rhetoric from Romanian politicians or from the likes of you far more than Russian rhetoric.
And by the way, Ukraine does illegally occupy Romanian territory – something you don’t seem to care or even acknowledge (Snake Island and territory at the mouths of the Danube), not that there is a chance to ever recover it, particularly with NATO supporting Ukraine and with ultranationalists in power in Ukraine.
So stop pretending you’re in the middle of events in Ukraine just because you live in Romania, because you aren’t. You see everything on TV just like anybody in Western Europe.
By the way, if Ukraine tries to obtain nuclear weapons, that would be a huge threat to Romania, no matter how many km you’re from the border, and in that eventuality, I pray Russia takes military action to take out such capabilities in Ukraine.
we are leaded by extraterestrial beyngs , did you seen putin how it looks to people..did you seen obama .. wee are puppets!
we must die in continuous wars becouse our force put toghether is strong..
so.. pray and fight your evil mind !
Do nothing EU and Russia will do everything to destroy EU. Pay clowns to divide countries so we’ll stand against each other one more time, and Russians will come with their “freedom”. If any oif you want to live in Soviet Union version 2 – support Putin and Russia.
Well said Con Rad. Read the Bloodlands. Europe between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder
E.U. must stop supporting new nazists in Ukraine.Ukrainians will find peace and legal government.Crisis was created by West only.
http://gr.rbth.com/news/2014/05/02/mentbentef_pro_kiebo_stamatiste_na_skotonetai_toy_polite_ti_xora_30177.html
Stupid question, the EU is one of the causes of this mess, have they acted sensibly enough with respect to all mind streams in Ukraine, none of this would have happened!!
THE ACTUAL EU IS A FICTION
EU and USA started this problem. It is dirty geopolitical and economical war “destroy and than manipulate”. Russia never accepts NATO near her border and this conflict was expected. The blood of our ukrainian people is only on the hands of out “new temporary government” which is paying by the west counties. How would like nice life for ukrainian people? And help??! Nobody!!! Everybody expects profits from this crisis.
mmm..why should the EU care?.. maybe because it played a major role in sparking all this?!
Alex? Haven’t you asked the question……how did Vladimir Putin get his 70 billion dollars, which makes him the richest head of state in Europe, East or West? Duh? Cause he is a gangster and a thug? Russia is one big group of Mafiosi…………..Wake up people. Putin is very angry because the Ukrainian people along with the EU had the audacity to throw out his PUPPET Yanukovitch, but before he left he managed to take his billions with him, that he made from ripping off the Ukrainian people. I just can not believe that no one on this board cares about this. Wonder why? Cause corruption, violence, and hatred are endemic your society. Russia started this, not the EU. How ridiculous to even suggest that the EU started the problems in Ukraine.
Hands off…. Let the people deal it itself…And if they are stupid..so be it…
Do you think that is normal situation when military army kills the citizens? Is it normal situation when all leaders from ‘democratic’ countries tell that unlegal group of people – the government of Ukrain HAS RIGHT to kill the Ukrainians?
@Gabriel:
Sunt din Galati desteptule.
Deci stiu mai bine ca tine ce se intampla pt ca sunt la GRANITA – la propriu.
Pastreaza-ti comentariile de doi bani pt tine. Chiar daca pe termen scurt am vrea Moldova si Insula Serpilor inapoi, Ungaria abia asteapta sa zica si ei ca vor Transilvania.
Si cu un precedent in Est nu vom avea nici o legitimitate sa le negam “dreptul”.
Nu fii tampit !
Limbidis, don’t be impolite to other commentators.
Insult me in English please, so they can understand.
The demand that your opinions should be viewed as carrying more weight because you live close to the border with the former Soviet Union is ridiculous. So my opinions are not exactly as good as yours because Galaţi is 18 km or so closer to the border than Brăila. Do you hear yourself, man?
You are a primitive fellow who thinks that the problem of hungarians in Transylvania is somehow connected with everything: if we demand the restitution of Snake Island and the mouths of Danube, you fear this might entitle hungarians to the restitution of Transylvania. The same if we demand the rights of Romanians in Ukraine to be respected.
That only shows your belief that Transylvania does not rightfully belong to Romania, that our nation’s claim to that territory is illegitimate, which is both wrong and pitiful especially if you’re Romanian. I’m not going into that here since it’s besides the point.
First of all, you are tragically misinformed, even if you live “literally on the border” (which you don’t: Galaţi is not “literally on the border” even if it’s close).
You just don’t get it: Romania did not lose Snake Island as a result of the war. It was given to the Soviets post-war, in 1948, as a result of a border treaty never ratified by either Romania, or the Soviet Union. Not as a result of the Paris Peace Treaty.
So I’m not saying that Romania should ask for a revision of 1947 Paris Conference Treaty borders with Ukraine, but a restitution of illegally occupied territory (much in the same way as Crimea has been given to Ukraine, only illegally as the treaty between Romania and USSR was not ratified by either side).
The connection between Transylvania and Snake Island exists only in your mind: the hungarians will demand autonomy or border revision with or without Snake Island. In fact, they have been doing both for a long time, and it’s not lack of legitimacy which stopped them taking action to change borders.
There are enough precedents without Snake Island (or Bucovina for that matter) – Kosovo, Tirol, perhaps Scotland and Catalonia soon.
Anyway, I think it is wrong to be a dishonest commentator, even if you erroneously think this is in the “national interest” of Romania. There are enough people well paid to take care of our national interest who are doing anything else. Let this job to professionals, you are terribly poor at it – almost as poor as our professionals are.
E.U. should stand by Ukraine. The annexation of Crimea by Russia it’s illegal and should never be recognized by any other state. Putin is playing a very dangerous game that potentially and certainly will backfire. End of story.
I see 2 powers and 2 interests. Rusia and EU, destroying a country, and putting people against each other, in a battle of stupidity. In a century we all should be in peace and work together. In a time US stopped investments in expanding military. I see EU, trying to draw Ukraine on it’s side and Rusia trying to isolate itself, like EU is a cancer. Let’s say straight. It is not about people. It is about interests of small groups of people. Aericans, russians, europeans. For them doesn’t matter how many people has to die. It was 2000 years ago, it is now the same. And we, the people of countries, sustain them and call it proudly nationalism, power of people, etc. Based on what? On language spoken? On ancestors’s facts (and cruelty?) Wake up people. Delete history. Let’s make a better world and take care of everyone.
That’s true. This is a proxy war between great powers, but the people of Ukraine are the victims, no matter what language they speak – Russian or Ukrainian.
“Why should Europe care what happens between Ukraine and Russia?”
Nice title.
Reminds me about the exact same news titles during early pre-WW2 and Hitler too. News-papers were writing “Why should Europe care what happens between Germany and ?” all over the place back then too.
And we all kinda know what happened after that.
Good luck with the epic proportioned ignorance and lack of knowledge in history. History seems to be repeating itself.
The EU just cannot be aside.
However, it cannot take action that are not backed by its real power!
We should keep in mind that now the EU is only an economic power and not a political power, so only economic steps (sanctions) can be taken!
There is no way of intervening with troups.
This would already be something for Russia which is the biggest gas provider for Europe, and makes most of its gains from Europe. If we really decide to diversify gas sources Russia could have big problems!
People you watch too much s******* on TV, Russia has no intentions on ‘invading’ Romania, or Ukraine. Calm yourselves!!!
Anna,
You need to read European History. Putin is a despot, and he thinks he is the next Prince Vladimir who lived in Kiev over 1000 years ago. He is serious. All of Eastern Europe has cause for concern, He will not stop at Ukraine. Putin is the 21 century Megalomaniac, and you all better wake up. When the Chancellor of Germany says and I quote ” Putin is not living in the real world”, then you better believe there is trouble brewing…………………
the UE not repay the insufficiency act systems location Ukraine
@Gabriel:
First of all you say to not insult you then you proceed gallantly to call me “primitive” – nice double standards there.
Second of all, while Transylvania DOES belong to us, in international relations things can change if we accept countries being ripped apart for our own benefit.
In other words, even if ripping Western Ukraine would bring us back some territories lost during WW2 it wouldn’t be ethical and would encourage our own ‘enclave’.
**Galaţi is not “literally on the border” even if it’s close**
Actually it’s 7km from the border, i can hop on my bike and be in Moldova or Ukraine in less than 30 minutes.
Thinking we will get Snake Island back is a very dangerous mindset and i am not “paid to server our national” interest, no matter your delusions.
And i think my comments are actually spot on and you are bashing my person instead of my arguments.
As for our “national interest”, i would be happy if we KEEP our country intact and preferably out of a war and not drive this bellicose rhetoric about “getting back our lost land from Ukraine”.
I would suggest you keep these – very dangerous ideas – to yourself. They do not serve us or Europe’s interest.
I advise you to read more carefully my comments. I asked you to insult me in English. It is dishonest to “switch language” when you insult a person so that the others don’t understand you. And since I’m not in the business of turning the other cheek, I gave you the truth but in English. Yes, you are.
Romania wouldn’t “rip apart” Ukraine by asking ILLEGALLY occupied territory to be returned to us (not northern Bucovina or Budjak). On the contrary, Romania is the “ripped apart” side.
The fact that Galaţi is 7 km away from the border does not mean that you are taking part in events in Ukraine in any way or that your comments are entitled to some special status. You are watching everything on TV or reading about it on the internet just like most people adding comments here (although you don’t seem to read much).
I don’t think we can take back Snake Island. Nevertheless, this doesn’t mean that I have to love or support the nation occupying it.
They occupy Romanian territory? It’s only poetic justice that somebody else is occupying their land. I’m not obliged to feel sorry for them.
Judging by your comments, I wouldn’t say that you care so much about keeping your country out of a war. You seem very eager to go to war with Russia. Or somebody else in your place?
I’m glad you admit (in English) to the fact that, in your misguided way, you think you are serving interests here.
I’m not serving anybody’s interest here, that’s not why I’m here and neither are you, in spite of what you think. We are here to write what we think, not to “serve interests” by lying or asking other people to keep their ideas to yourself.
You are lucky you are born here, on this side or the border. You deserve to have been born 7 km from the border but on the other side. Your place is in Ukraine with Svoboda & Pravyi Sektor, that’s where you belong with your totalitarian mindset.
Limbidis you are a very smart man. Your insights are in my opinion very accurate. We all know what Rusia is doing and it is sad to watch because people are dying. It will get much more ugly if Putin is not stopped. Funny how some Rusians blindly follow their leader because they are being paid. How they lie, kill, and spread propaganda is overwhelming. God help Ukraine for it looks like nobody else will.
What do you expected? Your country were Hitler ally in WWII. That is why you’ve lost some territories.
Another country is encroaching on the borders of a free country and you Europeans want to rip on the west and U.S. for trying to stop it?! Yes you are all puppets of the U.S. watch as our evil empire defends the lands of a free country then if a war breaks out and the U.S. will rebuild Europe once again with a new Marshall plan so that europe isn’t devastated like it was after ww2. We are so evil dance puppets as we do what your governments never have the gall to do and that is defend the borders of free countries to prevent aggression by another. Also. You people are seriously got a nice imagination if you think the US is some kind of new world order that is secretly taking over the world. Lol really?! Do you actually be live this? Do you believe that planes spray chemical trails to brainwash the public and that George Bush is actually a robot or clone made by our secret order to become president and secretly do what his creators want?! Cause you sound like the same kind of people that believe this bullshit. First we save Ukraine from russia and somehow we turn the ukraine into asecret base to take over the world!! Hahahahhahaha u europeans can be so stupid
If europeans prefer to sit back and let russia bully a smaller and weaker Ukraine like they did when Russia bullied georgia then europe is like a person that sits and watches as the high school bully beats up the middle school special education student and does nothing to protect the weak. You should be ashamed but you aren’t. You let Germany bully their neighbors to start ww2. You let ussr assert control after ww2 on eastern europe. You complained about the gulf war and didn’t think Iraq should leave Kuwait. Does europe get off on watching big boys beat the crap out of little guys? Does europe believe letting a bully terrorize weak middle school kids is ok? Fuck the weak right?! Europe is supposed to be built on history but you remember nothing of the past. Maybe you think the us is a bully. And maybe we are at points. But it seems like the only country that can be a bully and draw europe’s ire is the us. Any other country in the world can act aggressive and attack others is ok to europeans. Russia attacks georgia and ukraine… whatever its cool. The us talks about stopping the russians and omg what a bully getting envolved in outside affairs. Seems like many of you hate the us because its the vogue thing to do. All your friends hate the us why not you too! Just sit back europe and whine about how the evil us decided to talk to the bully and say hey stop beating on the weak kid over there.
We don’t hate the US we just like to analyze more before we jump head into conflicts…like Iraq.
I remember a *certain* country who was calling everyone who was not with them “with the terrorists”.
Just because we are still discussing this does not mean we are unwilling to act. Hitler made the mistake to think Europe will just cower to his whim – he was wrong. As Putler will soon find out if he does not stop.
Nobody wants a war, but no one is going to sit while Russia pours into Europe ( if they do ). And while the US position *is* good here, you are hardly clean as a country.
You have a LOT to answer for.
All my friends are morons.Germans running around with “I heart New York” and that kind of stuff,thinking “the US savd us from the commies”.You saved us my ass.Basically you used us as a shield against the commies and nothing else.If someone would have used nuclears they would have used them on German ground for the concentration of troops that were stationed here.
The US are some NWO.After ww2 the Germans were like “there shell never again be war comming from german ground” and how did we end up thanks to the us?In Afghanistan,Bosnia and other random places no German boot should have ever stepped and Yankees bombing random people using drones they pilote from Rammstein (Germany)Either you stick to the rules or get the f*** out of my country.It probably isn t a NWO like this illuminati conspiracy-theory morons think,but there sure is influence on German policy…
I agree Aaron. I get so tired as an American of all the US bashing. How quickly people forget. If we don’t remember history we are bound to repeat it, someone once said. And, from the looks of this board I would say that it looks as though Europe is going to repeat its history for the hundredth time. But, by God if I have anything to say about we will not intervene this time. Had we not in WW2 the entire European continent would have been slaves of either the Germans or the Russians, that was the internal policy of the Nazi regime and the Stalin Regime. I wish we could have all the money back that the US taxpayers gave to the European people over the decades, to feed, clothe, educate, heal, and restore Europe. It sickens me. We are not perfect but we never started a war, (with the exception of Iraq), in our young History. This nation has done more to protect the weak against tyranny, aggression, and despotism than any nation on Earth. And, we grow tired of spending our blood and money so that you can criticize us for doing good in the world. How many of your sons and daughters are in uniform standing on the wall right now? Very few. 450,000 well trained and equipped American men and woman are in uniform at this moment protecting your freedoms around the world and making sure that Despots like Putin don’t go to far? Where do you think he would be right now if that Armed force did not exist and that the American people were not willing to support it. You all disgust me.
“We are not perfect but we never started a war, (with the exception of Iraq), in our young History”
that one made me lol
Honduras-To secure US monopol
Haiti
Domican republic
Russian civil war (on the side of the monarchists,against the reds)
Kuba
Laos Brazil
Vietnam
kambodscha
El Salvador
Grenada
Irak
Sudan
Afghanistan
Lybia(the mission was suposed to introduce a no fly zone,while it turned out as the air force of the rebels,which never had a UN permission)
PS you migth not think it s possible,but there are people who like a king or a religion or so to rule their country.Saudi Arabia(wahhabi king),Iran(ayatolla khomenei),Bahrain those are just the once i remember now.Doubt they want our democracy.So who are you to decide how they have to live their lives?
I m disgusted by people like you who think they have a superiour moral obligation and can therefor bomb random people for jesus granted you air superiourity…Who makes us Westerners better then some of the other guys living on this planet?
Also with exception of Mexican war, Vietnam and Afganistan
The instability is dictated to suffocate the principal of Democracy the liberty to choose … Europe cannot stay Idle and must help so not to allow another mad dictator to lay hands on whoever is weaker and choosing to work & live in Justice & liberty…only this way we will justify the good reason for unity of all member Countries and guarantee stability & peace along its borders. Only this way we can rest our mind and sleep the nights in peace that when we need help we will find it.
the EU should definitely act as a mediator between russia and ukraine. however, this does not imply that the EU despite its role as a mediator, shouldnt step up and make is position be known by Moscow, which means that besides mediating the EU should keep and intesify its position and even its sanctions towards moscow, along with the US, but allways working for a hopeffuly peacefull and diplomatic solution! ;)
RUSSIA GO HOME THIS IS OUR CONTINENT NOT YOURS.
If Putin takes ukraine, the next prey will be the entire eastern europe. Latvia, estonia, lithuania, then again the balcans with a new extermination of anti-russian ethnics like muslims. We need to protect our brothers against the invasion and genocide of russia. Boycott russian products. Boycott russian mafia and gansgsters like Lavrov and Putin.
Why do you think that muslims are anti-russian? We have whole regions with muslim population (for example Tatarstan)
And as far as I now that’s EU where you dont like muslims and do not respect their beliefs. If I am not mistaken in France were restricted to wear paranja for muslim women (
Russia is the only cause of this mess. They wanted ukraine to stay part of the russian empire. People of ukraine didn’t want a russian president elected with fake elections and in wich the main opponent leader was imprisoned.
The EU recognized the election of yanukowitch.They did it as long as the dictator was pro western,when he turned to Russia they suddenly found out he s a dictator and wanted to get rid of him.
Opportonistic organisation this EU.It s like with Mubarak or Gaddhafi.As long as everything was quiet the west did not care,that he s a dictator to not disturb trading releations with those countries.When the people tried to get rid of those guys and the dictators startet loosing,eu realized that if they supportet the dictators it could disturb the relations to the future goverments.At that point they start bombing Gaddhafi who was their buddy before.Thes just joined the winner side to secure grateness of the new government and with that trading in the future.
@Alex: Please check the documentary explaining what happened to Yanukovich’s oposition in the elections.
He was beaten and poisoned by “unknown agents” ( probably FSB ) because his plan was to take Ukraine out of Russia influence.
Besides, it doesn’t matter if he was elected or not. If the people on the ground decide that “hey this guy is so bad for us that we must stop him now!” then he’s out.
Also remember there were not many protesters for EU. The vast majority came out when he passed those “protesting is illegal” laws – which by the way Putler also has implemented in Russia ( that’s why you don’t see many protests there ).
He was stealing from his own country and building himself palaces – some of which have even been photographed by the media since then, i invite you to take a look.
But the most important thing is – and i repeat myself – just because the US and the EU have messed-up some international issues or are hypocrites does not mean we should allow Putler to do the same.
Do we let all criminals go because some of them escaped justice?
Hell no!
This logic of “well we do it so they can do it too” is bunk. It undermines the whole notion of INTERNATIONAL LAW.
To “orange revolutionaries”, any poll is fair only as long as they win. Also, if a poll was rigged (always unless they win), they stage a revolution. This is the most basic principle of orange revolutions, I’ve seen it in Ukraine, in Georgia and in Romania too, where no orange revolution took place but some folks calling themselves “orange” behaved as if it did.
Ukainian Nazis have killed mode then 40 people in Odessa city :(
You pro-russians are the “nazis”.
It’s not ukrainians kidnapping journalists and then threatening to kill them if Kiev doesn’t cower to your whims.
It is not ukrainian “civilians” who run around with AKs and AA rocket launchers that shoot down military helicopters.
It is not “ukrainian civilians” who are planting RUSSIAN FLAGS all over but then acting all surprised when Kiev protests.
So spare us your sanctimonious tirade. We all here know of the existence of PAID TROLLS hired by the Kremlin
http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=100&story_id=38052
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/russias-online-comment-propaganda-army/280432/
http://nomadicpolitics.blogspot.ro/2014/03/the-hunt-of-putins-troll-nest.html
It’s a well known psychological effect. People will slowly tend to gravitate towards the “group-thinking”.
In this case , towards Putler’s PROPAGANDA spread by his PAID trolls.
Which some here probably are.
A shame there is no “date joined” we would see quite a few interesting data.
Some responses here are verbatim from Russia Today ( another Kremlin propaganda channel gone into overdrive with its EU bashing ).
Why south and easty ukrainian cann’t vote for federalization? Why Nazi Guards are killing civilians?
Because Nazis in Kiev are allowed what Ianukovici isn’t. I haven’t heard western governments condemning the massacre, which is normal since they are in fact pulling the strings. They can’t condemn their nazi puppets in Kiev.
@Alex i wouldn’t say that the US is not at fault for many things, but reality on the ground says the following:
a) Putler is coming and he is not showing any signs of stopping
b) the EU has no standing common-army because of people like Marcel who think his “white race” is dying due to multiculturalism and because the EU is some evil “socialist” ( obviously he has no idea what the word means ) dystopia.
c) Even if an ad-hoc united command center to deal with the russians *is* made, we still don’t have probably the strength to take them out
d) US is the *spine* of NATO – we don’t like it, we hate this fact but it is STILL TRUE
So in conclusion – while we may not like it – we NEED the US to be involved here , to show a sort of barring of teeth to the russians. Because it seems diplomacy is failing.
That’s my take on the matter anyway.
Crimea, Harkov, now Odessa. Putler is moving further west.
I thought you were all for peace. Now, you want US involved. By the way, 40 pro-russian activists burned to death in Odessa, that is the worst single incident since it all started. Match this against the one or two victims in the Crimea operation.
Nazi butchers, that’s what Eu and NATO are supporting in Kiev.
“Putler” as you call him is showing remarkable restraint, Odessa fire would have required swift military response.
My take on the matter is just to like the Russians as my mum is one.The reason why there aren t antiputin demonstrations in Russia is because everyone but the few gay people like him.
Why we need to show teeth to the Russians is beyond me.The Russians just want to be left alone and in my countrie`s special case well they like us.So nothing to fear for me if the Polish act like crybabies,why should we care?
PS:The Polish hate us as much as the Russians anyways no matter what we do and everyone knows it…
Europeans should care more as to who exactly is pulling the strings? The EU precipitated this terrible calamity in Ukraine and now it tries to hide behind NATO!
The EU should give its risible Nobel prize back forthwith!
You forgot to blame the EU’s illuminati masters.
Also aliens.
Please provide legitimate evidence of the existence of the ILLUMINATI.
Please provide legitimate evidence of the existence of ALIENS!
PS: Please try to keep ‘on topic’ as your musings are on occasion quite disturbing.
Odessa massacre changed things. It proved “Russian propaganda” right: these people in Kiev are Nazis. I suspected so, I read about some of them, but I thought it might not be true for most.
Wrong: a bunch of Nazis not to be treated with.
For once, americans are right: Russians are prisoners of a 20th century mindset including the way they conduct war or special operations.
They go for the periphery, for the pawns, instead of targeting the leaders. They are treating the Nazi bunch in Kiev as if they were the legitimate leaders of a nation instead of a bunch of putschist criminals.
You can’t have such people brought to trial, it’s almost impossible.
They should treat the Nazi bunch exactly the same way Americans did with O.B.L.
They did not bring him to trial, they took him out.
Take them out in groups or one by one using missile or drone strikes. Let them know they will never be safe in Ukraine.
I am still waiting on you pro-russians drones to explain me how did “peaceful civilians” get AA rockets to shoot down two MILITARY helicopters?
Also watch the clips, the protesters assaulted police forces and THEN they were shot with rubber bullets.
These russians sure can dish it out but can’t really take it.
They beat everyone who doesn’t agree with them but cry like babies whenever cameras are on.
GO RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Alex:
“My take on the matter is just to like the Russians as my mum is one.The reason why there aren t antiputin demonstrations in Russia is because everyone but the few gay people like him.
Why we need to show teeth to the Russians is beyond me.The Russians just want to be left alone and in my countrie`s special case well they like us.So nothing to fear for me if the Polish act like crybabies,why should we care?
PS:The Polish hate us as much as the Russians anyways no matter what we do and everyone knows it…”
Protesting is illegal in Russia. You get arrested and thrown into a dungeon.
The media is state controlled. Anyone who write against Putin will quickly find himself fired
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/24/us-ukraine-crisis-professor-idUSBREA2N1BM20140324
beaten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7_geF-8faE
or killed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anna_Politkovskaya
As for “Russia wants to be left alone” – i think that UKRAINE also wanted to be left alone and not have “little green men” invading.
Your attitude is exactly why the poles don’t trust you. You would ditch them to save your own skin – talk about pathetic.
Given Germany;s history with Poland do you WONDER why they don’t like you much?
And finally, regardless of your sad attempt at white-washing Putler, Germany *is* in the EU and in NATO.
So it is BOUND BY TREATIES to help Poland if need arises. Whether you personally like them or not.
What can the EU even do without armed forces to back up any demands!?
The EU needs an army, an air force, a navy and also a single border control agency with armed guards on our borders esecially on the borders with Russia.
YES!
The Ukrainian Army was an SS Nazi division in the 2nd world war, and the “Arian” superiority concept gained euro popularity in the Ukraine before it did in Germany. Maybe that Arian racist attitude still resides there. I would not give them $1 (let alone billions) of US money. It has 200 years of Russian connection, I encourage Putin to take over the entirety.
Let’s cut the b/s here.
Most of WW2 in Russia was fought ON UKRAINE’s land, NOT Russia.
Most people fighting were UKRAINIANS , not Russian. They were part of Russia then but as location, UKRAINE’s areas were in the middle of the conflict.
So don’t you DARE spew russian propaganda of “nazis” in Ukraine because we know it’s pure nonsense.
” I encourage Putin to take over the entirety.”
If Putler takes over whole Ukraine WW3 is GUARANTEED. And it will end with Putler in Nurnberg or dead in his bunker.
Don’t push your luck! We may be playing Chamberlain now but we’re not morons.
Europe needs to stop being USA s puppet. Europe has huge economical ties with Russia. The whole goal of the US Imposed illegal government in Ukraine is to create a situation similar to Yugoslavia from which they will profit by getting the gas via American companies & immense land for unverified GMO crops. The End goal is to destroy the EU cause the Euro competes hard with the USD for hard currency on the market. Russia will never allow EU OR NATO in Ukraine. They will not divide the country, they will take it all. And neither NATO or US will do anything about it. Better stop the sanctions on Russia & start toning down the support for the Neo Nazis running wild in the illegal Ukrainian government.
Are you insane?!
This has NOTHING to do with the USA but with Ukraine being SWALLOWED by Russia ! How is the US connected??
What is this obsession with USA then with Israel. You pro-Putler people are just insane!
The fact that the Ukrainian government was overturned by the people hints toward the need for EU policies and democracy. And in no way would I say that it was an illegal government. I think statements like that, and the fact Russia ‘owned’ Ukraine many years ago is all just Russian propaganda to justify to the people that what is happening is the right/best action for this country. Not to say that with the huge financial cuts on the US military sector, at present, that there are many people that want to see Ukraine ‘take up arms’, meaning serious budgetary improvements for the US military. However just as the UK and many other EU countries have been swept up in the ‘drama’ of this situation, you can not deny the human rights violations that are happening daily in Russia. The ‘Russian federation’ is backward in social, foreign and economic aspects; yet just as my patriotism for my own country would deny me from feeling like my country was doing anything drastically wrong, I think the same has been promoted in the minds of Russian citizens, which is why they sit back/partake in some of the madness that we see coming from this mistaken country.
This is 100% true.
In my opinion, this is a game between USA and EU (Germany). EU is forced to an economic and enegetic suicide with insame economic sanctions towards Russia only because its master USA wants NATO in Ukraine. This has nothing to do with european interests, only with new USA-world order interests.They will do anything to achieve their goals in Ukraine, like organizing coup d’etat and arming insane fascists groups and paramilitary militias to replace democratically electet government, like they did in Syria. l feel sorry for Ukranians because if they don’t wake up in time they might face the same destiny like people in ex Jugoslavia, Iraq, Lybia or Syria. Unfortunatelly, Germany (and whole EU) is USA protectorate after Second World War and every now and then they are reminded by their american masters of this fact. Now Putin is playing smartly with USA like he did with Syria next summer trying to avoid war so wanted by CIA and offering negotiations and federalization of Ukraine. By the next winter Ukranians will have to choose between russian gas and american/european empty promises.
QUESTION:
Why should Europe care what happens between Ukraine and Russia?
ANSWER:
Exactly!
Europe should first care for its member states and after for the rest of the world. Turkey is occupying an EU member State and EU has done nothing to stop that.
EU has done nothing to apply its own laws and rules on Turkey.
So why it should care for Ukraine and Russia>
Europe should stay out of this! Why? simply because it is not their buissnes to interfere with what is happening in Ukraine. It never was! We have enough problems within EU to deal with before starting to give lessons to others! If the initial protests in Ukraine would have been take for what they actually were: peoples who had enough of corrupted politicians, and not for a desire of integrating Europe or leaving Russia, things would have been different. I would not disscus about US, because their reasons are relativley obvious, and frankly I do respect Russia for telling them to buzz off! It was time that somebody does it!
Besides having the right to travel in order to get the hell out of their country, I really don’t understand why Ukrainians would like to integrate EU at this point? This would only kill their industry and agriculture, and transform them in a consumption market for EU and kill their identity (similar to what happend in Romania, where politicians are even more corrupted than before and now the country is just a cheep production site for Germay, mostly, with no identidy). Ukraine is by far not ready (economically, politically and ideologically) to integrate any EU and get real benefits out of it. They should fight first corruption (at all the levels!!!) and stop balming everybody else for their missery! they are the only one responsible because they accept it! Every time that they give little money (without declaring it) to speed up a process, to overcome a fine, to get a better medical care, etc…they contribute to add a little bit more to their missery!
is there any reason to expand nato more and more, if the west does not have a future plan for the total distraction of russia? I bleev russian speakers should have the right of choosing to join russia if at all there was something called democracy to mention.what is going on in western ukraine rebel gov.is totaly ethnic dictatorship,they have right to impose their will on russia ethnic because they suported by the westrn world.
“What is this obsession with USA then with Israel.”
That says it all… Your puppeteers!
No, really. What is with this obsession? I am curious.
Are you one of those stormfront people?
Hello.I’m from Romania and i think Russia and my country could never get involved in a conflict if it wasn’t for NATO. We have no resources, we have no common cultural background… we don’t have Russian minorities [and] when it comes to our military we aren’t a threat either.We are a poor country,and have a lot of problems.I think that even if we weren`t in NATO,nobody would attack us..what can anybody take from us?Our poverty?Come and take it.I’m sick of it.I think Russia and Ukraine should solve their problems without involving other countries,especially my shitty country!
I’m also from Romania and i can tell you, you are clueless.
Learn you history ! See how “neutral” Romania has managed to be so far.
Oh yeah it HASN’T.
Russia always dreamed of taking over the Danube delta.
U.S.= Killers of the people and war starters.
Do you want that in the E.U.?
Russia is not responsible for the situation in Ukraine! Ηowever, the West and the USA!!! Open your eyes and not Inform from good served (non-authoritative) sources
from EU ana USA !!!
I don’t give a fu*k about politics.But,this war is only about that,and money,and power.We,the citizens,will pay the price for this stupid war and whatever it is.It will not make our situation better.In my country,poverty is in power(expect for corrupt people,obvious).If it will be a war,the economy will colapse even more,and we’ll not have enough money to rebuild the damage buildings or stuff like that.And first of all,i don’t want innocent people to die.For what?For the corrupt politicians in power?Let them go to battle.It’s not our battle.It’s the battle of the people in search of power.How much power can you want?Or how much money?Eventually,you’ll die,and the money and power can’t save you from death.I just want to have a peaceful world to raise my future kids,and a job to make some money to live.Why no one is thinking at the ordinary citizens?I don’t want to deal with the fact that my father and boyfriend could go to war.And don’t want to think that my beloved family and friends could die because of this war.My life is already a drama,i don’t need this stupid war.
I think that this is stupid that Russia is trying to take over Ukraine
What are we doing about this i am 15 years old and i cant see why we are not stoping any of this from happoning.
Who is going to stop it Andrew? I don’t know if you are writing from Ukraine or not. True independence comes as a result of the ‘majority’ of the people desiring it and having a willingness to resist tyranny and if need be die to defend the rights of man. Read the “Bill of rights in the declaration of Independence”. What Ukraine needs is millions of its people peacefully demonstrating all over the country standing like people of India did, to bring about their independence. Wars rarely accomplish this, particularly without hard feelings that take generations to overcome if ever. As an American patriot, my heart, and prayers are for your country. So many of us wish that the corruption, waste, and terrible governance of the past could truly be put behind you and that Ukraine, a whole Ukraine could take it’s place among the free Nations of the world. Your great culture, the hard working nature of your people, would be an asset to the world at large.
An-Tonia,
We kill people? Some I admit, last I check Russia in it’s illustrious past and present have killed over 100 million people. Who are you to lecture us? The only reason the entire world has anything is the US, before this country came into being we were using whale oil, and driving around in horse and buggies. In 250 years we have come from that to Iphones, cars that can go up to 150 miles per hour, medical miracles, flight, housing, more food for the average person than the world has ever seen, and 70 years of peace. Grow up.
“Are you one of those stormfront people?”
Do you try to insinuate that Pravy Sektor isn’t the pinnacle of democracy, as rubberstamped by the Nobel peace price winners?
No actually i am just trying to figure out where the “jews” and “USA” come into this?
you seem to have a fascination for them in your discussion here.
Shall i remind you that while Pravy Sektor is far-right they are nowhere NEAR in power compared to Putler who has shown to act just like his mustache wearing guru he seems to follow?
And that his neo-nazi party runs unchecked in Russia?
And that Alexandr Dughin, the neo-fascist is left free to not only spread his “neo-eurasianism” ( code word for russian fascism ) but also given plenty of air time by the russian TV?
WHO are the REAL nazis here !?
Who are the real AGGRESSORS here?!
Russia is a democracy regardless of their actions and thats why that alexandr dughin can speak his mind in front of television…….one of many flaws in democracy in my opinion
Maike’s argument was that since the West promised the then-Soviet Union that German reunification would not result in an Eastern enlargement of NATO and then broke its word, Russia’s reaction was not surprising. Dolhov dismissed it by arguing that Ukraine is a free country and CAN take decisions for itself. Even though it might sound tough, I should say that model verbs such as “can” or “must” are not always the best options for politicians. What about “is”? The Russian interests, regardless of what we think about them, ARE the part of the reality we have on the ground. I have no intention to justify what Russia did in the Cremea, which may, by the way, well repeat in other regions when it comes to its self-declared interests. However, denying or condemning Russian interests is also not good enough for politicians who take responsible decisions.
Just a question Toby? What right in anyway does Russia or any other nation for that matter have when it comes to the sovereign rights of any other nation? Promise Russia over Eastern Germany? What Russian governmental official believed that in anyway when Germany was reunited that it would not once again become a viable part of Europe as a whole? It has been and will be for another 500 years. Russia needs to go back to it’s own boarders before WW1 and stay there. The Russian Junta and it’s war mongering are living in the wrong century. Been there, done that, didn’t work out so well, just ask the millions that were destroyed due to Russian aggression and hegemony and blatant disregard for human life other than those who are power. Tis unfortunate that the Kaiser unleashed Lenin who jointed with Stalin to overthrow the fledgling government of Russia in 1917, since that time 100+ million innocent souls have perished under the jack boot of some misconstrued ideology called communism and collectivism. What a scourge upon the earth, worse than any plague, and is alive and well today spewing propaganda that whole of western Europe and the United States is being controlled by Nazis? In the scheme of things Stalinek aka Putler, is parading around attempting to imitate napoleon and doing a bad job of it. So, lets not cry about Russia and broken promises. Read the Bloodlands, this is the true nature and mentality of the Russian thuggery now in control. Someday the Russian people may realize they need to step up one more rung on the evolutionary ladder and rid themselves of this dark, cancerous, type of leadership and governance.
Let Russians and Ukrainians living in Ukraine decide in which side they want to be
Lets ask Ukrainians about what they want, and start worrying about EU, we have much bigger problems, as you could see past Sunday.
Your infographic states that “UN Security Council votes in favor of a draft resolution condemning the Crimean referendum as illegitimate.” In fact, it did not: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=47362
Your other claims in the same infographic are similarly skewed and do not represent in a fair and unbiased way what really happened.
Wrong. It is not “between Russians and Ukrainians”. It is the attempt to establish free and democratic community. It is about human rights, about the freedom. Aren’t that EU values? Russia is the most powerful stronghold of dictate and Nazism. Ukrainians simply want to get rid of that.Ukrainians fight for their and our freedom. Free and democratic Ukraine, Ukraine part of EU and NATO – more security and freedom for Europe and the World.
Biased representation of reality and facts.
The United States has not abandoned their attempts to radicalize the Ukrainian crisis, and thereby destroy the Russian-European relations. However incapacity Kiev mode makes the policy less promising
REFERENDUM! Ask them what they want and after the results it is fair to give them what they want!
Why are so many europeans defending Fascist and non democratic Russia? Do they want the same in Europe? If we had the same, they could not be here foaming barbarities from the corners of their mouths.
Why are so many europeans defending Fascist and non democratic Russia? Do they want the same in Europe? If we had the same, they could not be here foaming barbarities from the corners of their mouths
Firmly in the escalation of the situation, the Kiev authorities continue to lose control of the situation in the country. To date, the ruling junta has no economic resources nor the legitimacy or power support. However, the more power in Kiev weakens, the harder is the chosen destructive path.
Ukraine is not as far as Georgia, it is just on our doorstep and it is as large as France. Ukranian people, or at least a relevant part of them, want to enter EU not only for economic reasons, but first of all for a matter of security.
If we really desire to build a better and stronger Europe one the first things to do, in my opinion, is to find a solution to the Ukranian crisis and to let Putin know that he cannot play with countries as if they were still part of the URSS. We have been spectators for too long, now it is time to act.
Of course we should let Ukranians decide about their future, but we should also make them understand that democracy, fairness and freedom would only come with EU, surely not with Putin’s Russia.
Who wants WW3 ?? NO ONE thats why.
A month ago I wrote to this page, that Crimea would be just the beginning. That Odessa, Mariupol, Donetsk and the rest of East Ukraine would follow, in a dramatic way.
I can’t believe that Europeans are so blind and fool. They are unable to analyse and predict the facts.
For all this mess, the main responsible is the EU leadership, which sacrificed a whole country and the life of many innocent people, in a shameless power and energy game!!!
We have Irish soldiers in Chad…I don’t know where on map Chad is. French Troops in Central African Republic, a mess, always a mess , always will be a mess. British dying in Afghanistan for nothing etc. Instead every European Army Navy and Airforce shouls offer their service to Ukraine, man the Ukraine/Russia border then kick the Russians out of Crimea. History shows what happens when we let someone like Putin have an inch.
Stop sponsoring a government who’s army kills its own people. Nice beginning of a new ‘democracy’ over there in Ukraine.
Everybody asks what gonna be, nobody asks how is happend? There is a flight for resurses, and people die because somebody wants more and more. And Russia is not a lonely and sure not first who started this war.
Everybody asks what gonna be, nobody asks how is happend? There is a flight for resurses, and people die because somebody wants more and more. And Russia is not a lonely and sure not first who started this war.
Sorry to add my “2 cents” from the US, but I for one (and I think there are a great many in the US that share my opinion) would love nothing more than to recall both our military AND our foreign financial aid and focus once again on our own nation building. The President’s speech today noted and attempted to downplay the growing domestic sentiment that would prefer the US foreign policy become far more isolationist in nature. If that means chaos erupts in certain corners of the globe, then so be it. There is already plenty of chaos out there, so there is no need to risk additional US lives or $$$ beyond our own borders. The world has let it be known several times over that our often misguided and oafish “help” is no longer desired. I have no doubt that the nations of Europe can peacefully settle any differences they have among themselves or with Russia and that China and its surrounding neighbors will be able to discover a shared peace in their own region without additional aid or input from the US. If it does result in a bumpy road for some nations, well I would just hate that, but I promise to take at least 2 minutes each week to read about any military actions and I will be sure to make a donation to the red cross in the name of (insert your particular nation here). You keep to your continent and we will keep to our own. And please, if you are going to escalate to the point of nuclear strikes, try to keep them low yield. Deal?
What’s happening between EU institutions and member states ? Far Right entering in EuroParl and we’re figuring out to fix the geopolical mess in Ukraina ? Incredible !
Russia`s reaction is the same as would the US reaction be if Russia sponsored the overthrow of the elected government in Canada or Mexico.
Dear people,i very please of Your ,live friends in pace ,communications please nice and quete ,and respectly.
Europeans need to work more towards a Federal System so that there can be a more unified system of governance. This was the hope behind a single currency and open borders, but it doesn’t seem to be working effectively in times of crisis!
I read these comments here and I think back to words that were written a long time ago and yes I am an American. These words where written by a great man from my country, by the name of Thomas Jefferson “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (it should also said women too) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”. The word life mean just that life the right to live. The word liberty means to be free, Ukraine is it’s own country and not part of Russia any more, plan and simple and not part of the EU or NATO. It does not matter what language is spoken there. There many languages spoken here does that mean Russia, England, Spain, France and every other country has a right to say what happens here to to come here and force their wills on us, no. The final word in that is happiness, I think that does need any comments. ALL PEOPLES OF THE EARTH ARE BORN FREE AND WHEN WE DIE, WE DIE FREE, PLAN AND SIMPLE.
Sadly we as human beings have not learned this yet and probably will only learn this after we have tried to destroy each with our own weapons or someone from another planet come here and tries to takes this planet from us or come here and teaches what Thomas Jefferson truly meant. So why wait, lets all grow up and learn this now before it is to late and we nuke ourselves off this planet.
George Titkov, thanks for your comment! That sentence was indeed misleading, we have now corrected it and changed it to “Russia vetoes a UN Security Council draft resolution condemning the Crimean referendum as illegitimate”: https://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/05/02/ukraine-russia/#infographic
stop supporting the Nazis of Kiev? Put pressure on Kiev to stop attacking citizens in eastern ukraine?
The crisis begun from USA and not from Russia…They made the maidan revolution ..
Obama in giro per l’Europa a vendere armi ,dopo che l’America ha mandato mercenari per combinare un colpo di stato
Spyros – ever heard of Godwin’s Law?
As I see, most comments are based on a complete ignorance of the facts and situation in Ukraine and look like they come straight from Russian propaganda. Well done and, to be consistent, pack your bags and emigrate to Russia. Still here? Too easy. And the Greeks (Spyros) have their own Nazis to worry about. I don’t even comment on the Italians, who lost their minds time ago.
To keep international law valid for peace and to avoid future wars or invasions staying unpunished and morally allowed. Furthermore Europe has to affirm a strong position in order to be an invaluable partner in future situations similar to this one. Russia has also claims on other territories on European and Asian soil, and we cannot let them occupy what they want for the sake of history. You would then allow every nation to do the same, and history is more complex than we think, especially if you look at it through a national viewpoint. But of course nothing is black or white, good or bad, and every aspect has to be considered.
Stop imperialism of EU and USA!!!
Isn’t imperialism to invade former territories of your empire??? I talk about Russia of course. Stop the hypocrisy
Because if we support neonazis in Ukraine and close our eyes when that government massacres innocent people in the south-east, then we can’t complain if far right movements get stronger and stronger in the EU itself
if people from east ukraine want to annex themselves to russia, its their right, if the rest of ukraine wants to enter the EU, let them enter, it isn’t that difficult.
is it Ukranien in Europe? so that!
also because if Putin and Obama want to play soldiers… maybe EU will be in the middle of the battlefield!? scary!
Why should the EU fight Russia to please the US ? Obama came to preach war so he can sell weapons. The European countries of the G8 should not have accepted that Russia be expelled from the meeting. How can it have been a significant meeting without Russia ?
G1 .USA and its obedient servants.Supporters of new nazist mercenaries murderers in Ukraine without clear task.
Europe should defend itself from Russian Nazis. Extreme right worries in Ukraine? Russia is even worse and Europe’s far right extremists along with the far left are all being encouraged by Russia. Stop it now! I have strong concerns about our way of life! We shouldn’t destroy what are good advances in human rights in Europe!
It seams to be true that Russia pays people to write stupid pro russian posts in social media.. There is no other explanation for people beeing so blind about Russia.
Simply, because just like you said it is Europe, after all, which means that it affects sooner or latter the neihgobouring countries! ;)
Not intervene in Ukrain.
/www.facebook.com/pages/EU-Politics/203176049701568
Because we live in the 21ft centuary and the Ukraine is a free country
Why not focus on the best news? The G7 found its G-Spot http://dandygoat.com/g7-discovers-its-g-spot
Europe needs Russia for Energy and should care ;but NATO & US are over stepping mark; since the collapse of soviet union ; the west has continued to expand into Russian sphere of influence ; Ukraine and Russia are interdependent; I think western attempts into Russian sphere has escalated the current cold war; sanctions and blaming it all on Russia is not conducive or good relations; Europe should care and stop Missile shield in Poland; it should encourage Russia to join Europe and it should accept that we are shifting into a multi polar world order and that Washington cannot sustain unilateral dominance indefinitely; the west should stop interfering in internal affairs of Ukraine and using it to balance and curtail resurgence of Russia; it has resources and economic incentives which can be beneficial to Ukraine
Europe should operate like a court of law, examining how things got this far , short and sweet !
There is no such thing as “Russian propaganda”.
I’ve had a wonderful time reading all the comments from, I shall say, 5 sides: US, EU, close neighbors of Ukraine, Ukraine and, probably, Russia or pro-Russian Ukraine. I myself Russian, but since I live in Germany, I can state that I understand where people from western cultures incapable of understanding the cultures on the east and what can being going on there.
In Germany we listen to American side of the story, on Russian news I enjoy Russian play of twisted words.
Here is my, hopefully, unbiased opinion if anybody is interested.
The situation in Ukraine is too complex and every decision from any of the sides will have a price tagged.
First of all it is an internal conflict and better if Ukrainians could solve it on their own. I know why they were not happy with the former President as well as with the new government. There must appear a third choice to end this war with minimal loses.
If EU+US continue being involved, the conflict will only escalates and Ukrainians would never thank western powers because Ukrainians are aware that nobody there really cares of Ukrainians. Therefore, any action from EU/US will fireback.
Ukrainians are almost Russians, like Bavarians in Germany, but most of them don’t want being a part of Russia completely.
I believe that nobody in Russian government seriously thinks of liberation of any of the Ukrainian territories. Russia doesn’t have money for them as well as EU doesn’t want to invest too much and welcome Ukraine as a full member.
It was really funny for me to read some opinions about Putin as a despot/dictator/Putler… as well as about cruel Germans what manipulate EU policy.
Jodi Howard even mentioned about ““the terrible horrible” Americans”. It is funny because I always thought that Mordor is known to be at my courtyard back in Russia.
For those who think that Putin must be stopped, I can try to explain that, as it was already said, Russians with the exception of gays really fond of our president because we didn’t have a better one from times of Peter the first. Yes, he defends interests of our country. His actions during war in Georgia considered fair even by Georgians I have been discussing it with. We have always had respect for Georgians as they are honorable people. It is likely that Putin don’t forget his own wallet, but I can live with that as long as economic situation for lower classes also goes up and it’s does.
Putin is not Stalin and stories about expansion are ridiculous. Baltic countries have nothing to interest Russian oligarchs.
As about Germans, one who knows them well can say that they do panic every time they hear the name Hitler and only thing they want in life is to be left alone. They have no imperialistic intentions whatsoever. Somehow I started to believe that American influence after WW2 went far beyond the physical destruction of the country, but instead was intensively oriented on psychological destruction of the nation, what is much worse.
Anyway, I am open for discussion.
taka triabwa mnogo smart
Hey Guys.I have read all the comments and realised that all the americans think that there is a war between Russia and Ukraine.But it’s not true!How can u gudge us ?!I am a russian girl and I’m proud of my nation!Now everybody think that russian people are really bad and cruel,but we try to help Ukraine.We give a lot of money,help people who suffer cause of Ukrainian president and army.Do u know that Ukrainian politicals don’t want us to help them?Ok.I just want to say that we are not so bad.U know nothing about Russia.
Hell yes!
No. If you intervern into a conflict, you become a belligerent. You become an enemy for someone out there. That’s how you bring terrorism home.
It does not contribute to the security of your own citizens, this is in fact the exact contrary. You create a new potential danger for them.
Neutrality is the key if you really care about your own citizens. See Switzerland.
The disneyfied outlook on the world the US and parts of NATO have, with their “axis of evil” and “evildoer” concepts are themselves a danger to security. They try to hammer the square peg of cultural complexities into their round hole of “good guy vs. bad guy”. We are currently seeing the consequences of such a naive “strategy” in Iraq, but also in Libya. In both cases, the notion that you just have to remove the dictator and peace and democracy would flourish has been unmasked time and again as horribly naive. Instead, the sole factor giving a region stability was removed without an adequate concept on how to give the region stability instead.
Quite the contrary, NATO and the US have to rethink their primary reliance on military means and armed interventions and come up with a sound holistic strategy for stability that includes cultural and economic means. And in such a strategy, Europe can play an important part. The focus on the military and on a simplistic assessment of complex situations has caused more danger than security in the last decades. It has produced a series of failed states which threaten our security and it risks turning Ukraine into just another one. The focus should be on understanding the different forces at work instead of simply applying our own value schematics on other people. Both those who portray Putin as an irrational madman and those who portray him as a white knight against western expansionism are equally stuck in a cartoonistic interpretation of the world. The only way we can ensure security is by understanding the motivations of others and taking them into account, rather than believing everyone operates in our own motivational framework.
Of course. And, indeed, Russia and Ukraine are part of Europe.
Yes, but not like the americans sending thousands of soldiers. We should send humanitarian aid to help the Ukranian people and follow the path of diplomacy, trying to reach a pacific resolution of the conflict.
Sending humanitarian aid is a really good idea right now. It might elevate credibility of EU.
NO, mind our own business and try to restore the EU , we have enough troubles in Europe !
because of the gas! dont tell stupid things about humanity or whatever… europe is interested in the gas coming fron ukrania, as well as we were interested in the oil in libia!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I-ebfeAPt84/TnOybkJlLLI/AAAAAAAAAS8/rrAVZ-jstoQ/s1600/0915-cameron-sarkozy-libya_full_600.jpg
No more fear culture!
Europe should lead mediation, not aggravation.
It’s EUROPE’S ball game rahter than ther US. We should take care of the problems of our neibourhood and seek the necerssary solutions….
NOOOOOOOO…… help with diplomacy only, but not intervent….. we have to much problem inside europe, for think take care of problems of outside……
Claro. Essa guerra no nossa
Maybe Europe should have a good army to protect us from the US;
Really, this is your question? Oh dear God! You must be the next candidate for the president of EU!
Eu shoul have a good politic approchand army to difende our citeziens and our qualfid production i , hope soon we will be Uninet States of EUROPE
What a question, really!! You (we) don’t need to go further; just look on the map. It’s just around the centre of what is considered Europe!
Leave Russia … This case is more complicated..Europe and Amerika made it worst.. So, leave Russia..
Let’s send Putin flowers & chocolate. I’m sure he’ll start to live with us in peace & harmony. Look up the history of the species we’re part of. We have always & will always have those amongst us who are up to no good (genocide _still_ happens in 2014!!!) & the rest of us need to stand up, protect & defend peace & our way of life. Diplomacy only works with some when you carry a big stick. Oh & this _is_ Europe’s business, as it is of all that is decent in humanity.
The Eu is abviously too reliant to the USA, and that’s why Russia do not want Ukraine to join EU. Europe should find the way to have an independent internatinal policy, withour going behind the USA or Russia. This has mostly to do with past decisions and fears, the same fears that lead to the WW 2. However nowadays Europe understands that this pro American policy threatens to make it an american protectorate, but there all of economicals reasons that do not let europe take another way. Abput the Ukraine crisi: As Ska keller had said during the Comission candidates debate, Europe is extremly dependent to Russia in order to cover its energy requirments, and that is the reason why the EU can not much more about Ukraine., and that wereamerican and european interests class. As long as Europe is afraid to class wit America it will never be able to be totally indepedent and teh right intervantions whenever and wherever needed.
Yes, despite unforutantely widely spread opposite opinion. Leave Russia.. some say… Oh’, with pleasure and for good, but here is a problem though. They never leave Us alone. Or you like it learn it like Russian neighbours did, in hard possible way? EU has his outer border you know…
I AGREE !!!!!!
Russians never left the eastern bloc and have systematically infiltrated all of EU. We MUST show our resolve and desire not to be victims of the ruling fascists in the Kremlin. We MUST help Ukraine, because WE ARE NEXT!!!
EU should have a deep vision. And a strategy, then. The way it managed the Lybian crisis, for example, clearly shows a lack of strategy. The results are known.
Because all of us and everyone should care about developing of personal freedom and democracy for every person on this world and not to be selfish and self satisfied with our material possesion and safety, our cell phones, cars, hollydays , cakes and so on. If we wouldn’t care , the bad could reverse against us tomorrow.At the moment, all the media attention is on ucraina-russian conflict. What about Iraq, Siria, is it too far???So we are not worried, and we don’t care??? Many hipocrits say: if US or EU interfere it’s for the sake of capital or gasoline or energents. What are they talking about????Hipocracy of the highest level, that’ s what it is. Personal freedom should be fought for even with military force, if the political force is not enough.
Why do you even start such a question, it’s out of the eu and nato. We have the right of caring about our safety only, there is noright to interfere in other countries, see all the places we are, Afganistan, Iraq ect. What have we brought? Democracy? We are a complete joke, believing in our european system, there is no european way of thinking, greeks do not think like germans and so on, we are not even able to name all eu countries.
So stop thinking for others and trytofix the mess we have here at home.
We can only try to become a good example for others, and this is difficult enough
No ans Yes
No i don’t agree, look what is happening in Libya.
Because Ukraine now, Moldova later, and so on….Putin wants to rebuild the old powerful URSS Russia, according to his vision for this country and according to his K.G.B thinking (he was, for 15 years, a K.G.B member – this, definitely formed his mentality).
because they are our neighbors and it affects us
When Russia interferes in another country to advance its interests, it is restoring an empire. When western countries do the same thing, they are there to “bring freedom, democracy, etc.” Nothing new to see here, the strong trying to tell the weak what to do. Except one side is trying to get some propaganda value out of the other side’s attempts to do the very same thing.
Yes,Russia trying to restore the empire….dialogue must be continued but with strong demands !
I think it’s obvious they are trying to restore their past area of influence. The Eurasian Union and what is happening now in Ukraine is a clear example of that. This is not new and people should have seen it comming since they attacked Georgia in 2008. Recently in Bulgaria they have been trying hard to influence politics and strategic economic decisions through pro-russian and socialist parties. I think a dialogue is the best option, but the EU should take a strong position on the matter.
What Russia should made is respect the Human rights and become integrated in the EU, then we will depend mutually and we’ll be invincible.Russia has 30% of its territory in Europe, it has brought European civilization to its farest borders withour comiting any genocide. And I mean RUSSIA (not the soviet regime) I love Russia but not its government, what I think is that either Ukraine becomes federalized and part of the EU or Novorossija becomes part of Russia and Ukraine enters the EU.
what about the German Empire aka EU?
what about the German Empire aka EU?
Well, we’re completely interconnected by energy matters. The UE imports a huge part of its energy needs of Russia, and Europe is the principal source of economic revenues for Russia. So, we have to talk. It doesn’t mean that the UE shouldn’t have a strong position over the Ukrainian issues.
The Crimea habitants prefer Russia…so whats the problem ? Why is Putin the bad guy of this stupid movie created by Nato supporters ?
Yes, he does. It’s up to all of us to stop him. His Empire is the counter-proposal to our values. Europe, be brave and determined.
Nikolay Mitev, thanks for your Information concerning Bulgaria. Russia does big efforts in all EU countries to manipulate people as you can easily see on Facebook.
Just Connect Europe with the terminal that comes from algeria to Iberian Peninsula…connect Portugal and Spain with the rest of europe…and you’ll have safe energy…simple!
Russia is responding the the eu trying to add to the eu `empire`….and good for them.
We in Portugal have 0% dependance on Russian gaz…having said that…more than 50% of our consumed energy comes from green energy sources…se another advantage…if not convinced by global warming and a better future…at least do it for independance!!
The eu should better care about uneployement in Southern Europe, keep hands out from a structure it only brought millions of vicitms alongside so much centuries. Would the eu afford to stay there as Bonaparte, Wilhelm II. and Hitler? Just beware of the russian bear.
I don’t think Putin wants to restore Russian empire , but he is using modern way of dependence , by capital means . Anyway , Europe and US have to defend democracy by all means , particularly for those who are weak , like Ucraina.
Yes and it should be stopped now, before it gets worse. Remember Hittler? The same thing happened, he made a small move by grabing a piece of territory fabricating the exact same propaganda russia is doing now and everybody thought he was satisfied. As a result the WW2 happened! ;) So not the just europe, but the entire international commmunity can not make the same mistake twice, for the good and peace of planet earth. One of the strategies can be to invest a lot in Russian implosion, to create a democratic Russia, following the doctrine “Democratic states do not make war”.
While sanctions against Russia are more symbolic. Fraught with serious economic sanctions huge losses for European countries. But if the U.S. picks from the thread (and their potential losses are just small), and they will force Europe to aggravate can stagger the entire current structure of international relations; risks – political, economic, military – to rise sharply, and for us too.
What a bullshit! It is Obama who is taking territories controled by Russia, like Siria or Ukranie!… it is so obvious that we are in a cold war 2…. Who is making an empire is United States… please can you compare the number of deaths by the Russia army with the number of deaths caused by the USA army! in the last 10 years!… stop telling bullshit… obama is as criminal as putin… and europe in the midle… I start to take food to my home… the future is bloody.
I have no idea on Putin politics.. but a little bit we know about USA external policy!….. http://clearingthefogradio.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Drones.jpg
Does anybody rembember when EEUU promised to Gorvachov that West would not advance to Russian areas? That was in 1990, in orden to get USSR approval to unificate both Germanies. What happend? One year after that we destabilize Yugoslavia and extended NATO to East Europe, baltic republics included… Now Moscu is strong again. Thats the situation.
Well they did say that to the Soviet Union, and to all the members that were a part of the USSR. The soviet union fell apart, and those republics that were a part of the soviet union, and to whom that promise was given decided that now they wanted into NATO. Even Russia wanted to join NATO, but NATO said no to Yeltsin and that Russia wasn’t ready and needed to reform. Russia and the west gave Ukraine assurances that territorial integrity of Ukraine would be honored, and that Ukraine should give up it’s Nuclear arsenal to Russia, an arsenal that was 3rd only to Russia, and the USA! If Ukraine kept the NUKES they would be in the EU now, but they gave them up and lost all clout and bargaining influence. Russia is disgusting, and the west is bending over backwards to accommodate Putin!
Just leave them alone
and eu is trying to restore hitler and fascism,what is worst?
EU-nato aggression/invasion eastwards must stop in order to prevent catastrophy and misery on our people. Both Napoleon and Hitler failed. Third time lucky..?
i do not understand… this it is dangerous for Europe… why NATO not do nothing right away and send militars to set Ukraine in order
Why should European Union (something smaller than Europe) cares about what happens in EU, with EU citizens and with EU far right parties, instead of doing the stupid in other countries?
http://www.stopfake.org
Lies about Ukraine -Russian TV.Repost.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-allegations-of-russian-tanks-in-ukraine-based-on-fake-evidence/5387160
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/11/362186/ukraine-protesters-share-fear-of-fascism/
europe care for money not for the people
only for money this EU
Because Russia and Ukraine are Europe, and whenever we speak of Europe we, I, do not make any difference between peoples of the same future single and plural Homeland, i.e. Europe. This is a simple and comprehensive reason. Isn’t it?
http://www.losio.com “Europe of the Homelands”
From the Singular Homeland of Nuuk to the one of Petropavlovsk-Kam?atskij is my Great and Plural Homeland Europe.
Is there still a Europe at all? seems more like a closed nordic europe than anything else. The european dream it’s just a story they told us during the eighties and its fake.
because of UE security … nobody wants war…!
Putin is not trying to restore an empire, Obama is extending his empire into Europe and the EU is to stupid to see.
Putin is only trying to get paid from Ukraine for the gas supply.
I believe Europe is extremely reliant on US on military perspective. Everyone loves to hate the US but fails to remember how many she carried on her shoulders for so long and now is debt stricken. Russia has puffed out her chest and abandoned all international laws and is constantly trying to find a justification to attack Ukraine. They already have military and heavy artillery inside. Russia will never be happy until it controls everything. Russia is selfish, antagonistic and a disgrace and should be cut off. Putin needs a dose of his own medicine. The United states has made mistakes but the most part has done so to protect this world from people like Putin and terrorism which Russia is an of itself. Russia wants to be the world leader fine them spend trillions other countries as the us has. Run to other’s aid and keep everyones head above water. I would love that! If they want to assume all the responsibility of a world power be guest I DON’T want my country to suffer anymore for ungrateful people. I want peace. At least until we have a president who can have the balls not to be run over. Putin only cares about russians no one else. hOw to make profit even it means tearing a country apart and people dieing. He’d never help others he has the philosophy of its their problem let them deal with it. Great leadership huh! Don’t give russia the benifit to kill Europeans or Americans or any others let them sacrifice themselves!!!@@
But do we not need to learn to forgive? Have we not helped nearly all other countries when they were down and out and in need of assist? We are all human beings! Should we not treat each other that way? You say that Russia want’s to be Dictator? Look at the history of Germany! Even in Biblical times! Who were the Assyrian’s? I’m not saying you are 100 % wrong I just feel that we should help any one or any Country that is Down on its luck! Sure they most definitely need to get out of war they are in first! Perhaps Karma is catching up with them? I really don’t know? But we help everyone else! Why not them? under conditions though! But when we can barely take care of ourselves ? It’s what I call a political Dilemma! To say the least! But I still say they are not the one’s now going for world control! Ever see slight of hand at work? When it comes to war, It’s not a good thing in the least! We are so very lucky to not all be speaking German now! This is only my opinion! Take Care JDR
Guess that questions has been answered today
????? ???? ??????? ?? ??!
????? ???? ??????? ?? ??!
If Europe continues playing indifferent game,next target for Russian bombs would be rich, corrupt and old Europe itself.
If Europe continues playing indifferent game,next target for Russian bombs would be rich, corrupt and old Europe itself.
Non-intervention is the key to peace. If whe expant influence to the east Russia will be threatened and will respond.
Non-intervention is the key to peace. If whe expant influence to the east Russia will be threatened and will respond.
What have they done to start it in the first place ? Regrets come too late now.
What have they done to start it in the first place ? Regrets come too late now.
The EU has already ‘done enough to put the weeds
when Europe ends dependence on Russian gas maybe we can talk again . otherwise it’s pointless ,nothing can be done.
EU helps in every way the far-rightists in Ukraine harming EU interests.Stop helping them and will be peace in Ukraine.
Too late now, EU should not have fueled the conflict (under US pressure !) in the first place..
EU should intervene…. To show that he is a world power from now on…
the eu started it.
Ukraine is to become EU soon, so they are in reality dealing with an EU problem.
Kiev’s neonazis are killing civilians in Luhansk and Donetsk and Europe supports them..Stop it..!
Europe should kick the f****g russian over their border and get putin to stand trail!
Europe must HELP UKRAINE to stop this russian occupation !! Who knows what will be next after Ukraine?? 2008 Georgia, 2014 Ukraine, 20?? Moldova?Baltic States??
Nick Str are you SERIOUS??? Kiev’s neonazis??? It’s russian fascism, and they terrorists that trying to destroy Ukraine.
Kiev is the problem not Moscow .. Monkeys in Kiev were the ones gunning down their own people to stage an ILLEGAL COUP .. Kiev is the problem not Moscow, none of the EU;s besswax.
No I think the rest of the world should show Mr Putin a thng or two because he is testing Europe especially
Dear Tomas, please pull your head out your ASS and step into REALITY, the world was not born yesterday, if there are no Nzis in Kiev explain the below you idiot. http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12
It should stop supporting Ukrainian fascists, fight for democracy and not for cup d’etat and not backing Ukrainian dictator cleptocrat’s massacre…
we are not talking about EU here we are talking about the US . unfortunately nations in eu cant agree that they need a common foreign policy and not one that US points to them so no EU should not take part in this crisis for US interests but only for her interests
… what do you mean when mention Europe? UK, USA are protesting and claiming…
Tomas ?amke are you serious ?who is the terrorist? The civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk?because they have russian nationality?They just want their independence,when the whole eu recognised kosovo it was ok?
Yes let thm solve
EU should fully support Ukraine
Why would we support Ukraine? Their country is a mess, poor infrastructure, terrible economy. Personally I don’t want Europe to take on Ukraine because it would take a massive investment to support it properly. Speaking from a purely neutral, realistic view Europe needs to support Russia because we are reliant on their gas and their market is larger then Ukraine which makes Russia the better choice in my opinion and most neutrals opinion.
We are all people and we really should all help one another! We all have the same red blood running through our veins, we all share the same sun, rain, water,air, we all need to pull together as a TEAM! LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF! THINK ABOUT IF THE SHOE WAS ON THE OTHER FOOT! AS AN AMERICAN I SAY WE NEED TO DO AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST! AS FAR AS HELPING OTHER COUNTRIES! I DON’T MEAN TO KEEP LYING TO US ABOUT NEARLY EVERYTHING! I MEAN HELP WISE! PEACE!
Ukraine is a huge bread basket and food resources are scarce in this world. It could feed half of Europe and allow us to grow and prosper. Those people are dying in war so they can be EU citizens. Russia will never play fair in selling gas, it will use as a weapon to bully and treathen weaker european states. Also most european far right parties are sustained by Russia in ordeer to devide and weakn us in the long term.
No.
If we as the oldest civilized power on Earth let tyrany to spread without punishmeng then we are no better than tyrants themselves. History tought us that heresy and lust for power has no limitations…we should send whole EU army to the Russian boarders…
Wake up to rEVOLUTION!!!
http://scgnews.com/five-reasons-the-situation-in-eastern-ukraine-is-about-to-become-much-more-dangerous
We do remember EU helping in 1990s when Milosevic was aggressor on Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo. Only 9 years later, after Americans dropped bombs on Belgrade, slaughter of others and territory grab by Belgrade was stopped, but Moscow is not Belgrade and Ukraine is fighting losing battle – Crimea is gone and EUrope was already really helpful :) Maybe at the end may help equalizing aggressor and victims just like on the so called Balkans.
NATO attack on terrorists – that is only solution (if Russia will keep trolling us all). Just ask Kiev and if they agree, hit terrorists in South-Eastern territories.
did Russian sponsored parties overthrow the last Ukraine Govt.??…no!!. eu sponsored parties did that…your union started this NOT Russia.
Look, EUrope agrees in this? Israel finally succed in expulsing all palestionians to egipt!… with EU shut up!… this is simply a shame… a shame on europe, a shame on the world… it seems we are going to Wolrd War 3… and we are in the side of the fascists!… congratulations to all! .. https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10430442_310635979103428_2383894313643189536_n.jpg
terrorist dont exist… this is simply propaganda to justify the use of weapons… remembre there is a old technique to false flag terrorist attacks to justify a war.
I don’t think so!
I think there is nothing Europe can do
As the EU US and the UN have led Israel and Palestine sore out their difference themselves , of course Rusia and Ukraine should do the same.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10300964_310122745821418_5993115569987257659_n.jpg?oh=0177d37620acc30cad01ee848e71ee0e&oe=544C3D36&__gda__=1412922254_2458dee29edebf4c70ce60f3d724a0eb
please… stop playing the game of war in the name of europeans… european parlament is governed by USA, this is why they do not condem Israel and wants to suppor Ukranine although most of the people think ukranian government is a fascist one…. they are killing its civilians… so… suport them! You just show the kind or persons you are. WARLORDS… go home.
EU needs to have a tougher position like the US!!! ;)
Separate EU from US ! We must stop play there games !
Stay out of it and let the U.N. deal with it !
No one cares what ‘Europe’ thinks about it. You can’t even elect a leader that anyone recognises. Let the adults deal with this situation. Go back to your offices and talk about ‘wind farms’.
Yes Barrack, go ahead and kick Putin’s a** and keep the commies at bay ! Whooah ! And give Merkel’s a beach slap because she’s doin’ business with ruskies behind your back !
I think EU and Russia should send police there and make free election possible . I believe they are in chaotic situation , similar to Yugoslavia 1990 and they need help. EU and Russia should not play on some idiots there , they should work on to make a free elections possible . Do not let this happen again : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfX4GJBSI0g
EU should and MUST intervene, it’s a shame how everyone is passively assisting to what will probably get really nasty… we all seem like a bunch of insensitive cowards!
Of course EU should act, impose more sanctions on Russia, it’s sickening to see European leaders shake hands with Putin after what he’s done to Chechens, Ukrainians, and also many of his fellow Russians who dared to disagree with him…
eu has to be everything. Negotiator, protector , military support, everything …..to protect weakness , not strength. That’s clear.
First thing, the EU needs joint military forces. Right now, nobody even cares what we say, especially not Russia.
NO, it shouldn’t
http://scgnews.com/five-reasons-the-situation-in-eastern-ukraine-is-about-to-become-much-more-dangerous
NO !
eu should resolve this crisis
The only way is… Europe must become a federal state.
Agree, european army and electec EU prezident with real powers.
NO
Provide military support on Russia-Ukraine borders now.
No
Poroshenko military reported that terrorists did not seize Ukrainian “Buk”
Terrorists have seized military equipment defense Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk.
This military reported to the President Peter Poroshenko after downing aircraft over the Donetsk region, told the Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema truth.
“After having been hit by a passenger plane, the military reported to the President that the terrorists have our missile systems” Buk “and C300. Grab those weapons was not” – said in comments Yarema Ukrainian truth after NSDC.
First Defense Ministry refuted information released citing unofficial sources about the alleged capture of terrorists anti-aircraft missiles defense parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk region.
“Press and Information Office of the Ministry of Defence announced that on June 29 the decision of the commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and military machinery of antiaircraft missile regiment in Donetsk were quickly relocated to a certain place. On the territory of the military control was only an old and unusable automotive electronics, that the military even more incapacitated. eventually terrorists entered the territory of the “- said in a statement the Ministry of Defense.
http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/07/18/7032278/
Talk is cheap, I want to see real sanctions against Russia. But… according to less credible source :
…Some 6,200 German firms are active in Russia with 20 billion euros ($27 billion) of investments here, while some 300,000 German jobs are dependent on trade with Russia, according to estimates by Germany’s Committee on Eastern European Economic Relations. …
source: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/german-trade-body-fears-sanctions-will-dent-business-with-russia/503640.html
Or even lesser credible RT ( Russia Today):
“France, Germany, Luxembourg, Austria, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Slovenia, and EU President Italy see no reason in the current environment for the introduction of sectorial trade and economic sanctions against Russia and at the summit, will block the measure,” a diplomatic source told ITAR-TASS.
source: http://rt.com/business/172888-9-eu-block-sanctions-russia/
I am American, but WHY should Russia be sanctioned. US went into Ukraine early and by 2000 we had a large Big Business Assoc UKraine-US office in Washington DC. NED (Fed Funded) spent 5 billion $ of our Tax money to promote Private Corporations, install Yanukovich after the Orange Revolution, oust him when he refused to join the EU, illegally Install a new Government from Kiev whose members are of the old German Occupation naziparties: Svoboda, Maidan, Brown Shirts etc. These people have long wanted to clear all Slav/ethnic Russians out of Ukraine. But they ARE Ukrainian and they do not want to join US/EU control. It is their RIGHT to say NO. It is their Right to ask Russia for help. Who else are they gonna ask? NATO? Who will protect East Ukraine from the forceful Take over by West Kiev’s aryans backed by US/EU…for US/EU benefit Only. My country is Wrong, unethical, and Criminal since 2,600 East Ukrainians are DEAD and 300,000 had to flee homes, businesses & farms to escape an ARMY backed by USA. CRIMINAL!
https://www.facebook.com/139932039510837/photos/a.139935619510479.1073741828.139932039510837/142599865910721/?type=1&theater
!!!!!!! it is cheating!! where are your facts, Obama?????????????????? see and draw conclusions drop-Malaysian-boying all collection of facts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgS7-b3FLn8
EU did a lot to start a civil war in Ukraine!!! Thanks a lot Europe… once again! By the way, not even a tiny post for the massacre in Gaza! Why this guilty silence???
Netherlands is grieving its children! The plane might had been hit from both sides. It doesn’t really matters!
What really matters is that 300 innocent people died for nothing!
What really matters is who put a hand to start this pointless civil war?
What really matters is how many people more, are going to die, for an idiotic power game?
http://www.vilaweb.cat/noticia/4204725/20140721/catalan-national-assembly-sends-message-to-juncker-and-schulz-catalans-vote-freedom.html
it is a critical scenerio. Russia is no Afghanistan where we can just bomb and leave. It is a superpower, powerful enough to fight NATO. Not sure how much sanctions will help as other countries such as china will not support western countries and with russian support for Assad regime it is unlikely the sanctions will affect them greatly. I think the best course of action is to undertake dialogue with russian leadeship and send aid to other European countries to avoid a domino affect occurring
The insane is that some commenters (especially from Eastern and Baltic countries), keep calling the autonomists “terrorists”!
I can completely understand their self-interested purposes, but they still must remember that just 3 months ago, the other side was called “terrorists”.
THE WORDS HAVE LOST THEIR MEANING!
A terrorist is a terrorist, it doesn’t matter under what flag is doing acts of terror. And what are Greece and 1/2 Cyprus interest ? “South Stream” ring a bell ? Can you prove that Putin is not a autocrat (dictator) and Russia is not an aggressive country? Enlight us !
These people forget that the Soviet Union could have applied the same logic to them and crushed them as terrorists when they sought independence.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/25/The-EU-s-Fatal-Flaws-Over-Ukraine?utm_content=buffer85718&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
WARNING content contains graphic images.
Kiev’s army is contuining their crackdown of anti-govt forces in the East of Ukraine. Urban areas are being caught in its deadly fire. There are reports from the city of Gorlovka where the latest shelling has killed at least 13 civilians with some media suggesting the death toll could be higher.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GBy71V-SUng#t=0
We need to BUT out as they are both European countries that come under Europe’s government as they show in Brussels parliament statements. What we have accomplish regarding Ukraine is to have a day by day LIES in our Large Publishers statement, any thing good from them,NO. Our COUNTRY is in serious problems regarding OUR LARGE DEPT and must EXPECT our CURRENCY to loose its PRESENT value, IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS. THE HELL WITH UKRAINE ITS OUR COUNTRY THAT MATTERS, WAKE UP FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE.
When I see in comments how many people don’t think for themselves but fall for propaganda shit, it almost pains me. First off, i don’t care much about neither russia nor ukraine or how the situation plays out (it has almost no effect on me or my people). Second, I think Russia as it is is bad( i am talking about goverment policies, not the people themselves). That, however does not mean it is ‘evil’. So all the people who write about Russians expanding their empire and shit, just stop being dumb. What Russia is doing is that it simply wont accept NATO (obsolete organisation, used for bullying smaller countries into accepting whatever policies western companies want them to accept) country on its doorstep. As for Ukranian revolution and afterwards,yes i believe people firmly supported it, but it was without a doubt organised from outside, and new regime will be equally corrupt and bad and anyone who doesn’t see that is simply ignorant or stupid. I have met few Russians back in the days, and all i can say is that they do not respond well to force, and attempts to bully Russia will not succeed. (this is already proven as Putin’s popularity rose since outbreak of conflict in eastern Ukraine).
I can however, by mere chance spoken with a person who fought as foreign mercenary for pro-Russian separatists and share his experience with you if anyone is interested.
I think the Ukrain-Russia crisis should be solve through political dialogue but not with military. Think about the innocent lives of the citizens that had been shed. It no use to shed the blood of the innocent citizens. If the Pro- Russians criminals want to fight go out in open battle field and fight the Ukrain army. The pro-Russian terrorist should not use the citizens as their human seal to take cover.
Nothing will solve through arms but only destruction.
I think it absolutely Criminal that my country, USA used its Department of NED to oust Yanukovich and install parties in Kiev which represent the old German Occupation for a complete Take over of Ukraine for US Corporate and the EU’s plan to ‘Save” itself. They (West) are using FORCE on East Ukraine for a take over. These parties, Svoboda, maidan, Brown Shirts have long wanted to cleanse East of Slavs & ethnic Russians. Today 2.600 east Ukrainans are DEAD. 300,000 have fled to Russia. UN has not sent in aid. If Russia Helps them at all, I believe it is JUST. Why should US/EU Force East Ukraine or Crimea-who escaped- to join EU/IMF and US Corporations? Why Should they and why does no one SAY anything in the UN about this illegal new Government in Kiev and forced take over of the East. This is a Crime committed by US/EU. I have a hard time believing everyone accepts it but Russia.
Not our business
You should care what happens in southern Europe because of your incompetent foreign policy! Swathes of migrants that run from their NATO bombed countries…
https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone/posts/901387646552202
they SHOULD…both are members of the Council of Europe at Strasbouirg…..Human Rights institution ..Jifi think first, before you write…
because otherwise Europe is next, step by step
Because Russia and the Ukraine both belong to Europe
Basically, last time I checked Europe didnt have Common Foreign Policy, and what do you mean Europe ?if Germany – Brussels or other Parties want to mess with Russia and deploy troops near their borders why should Greece care ?? lets kill themselves . We have crisis vital needs in oil gas also the best tourists are russians and many of our agricultural products are exported there. ( Last but not least No one will start a War in order to protect human rights how old are you? 10 ?? ).
Because for one more time Europe make the same mistakes that will lead to the appearence of Russian tanks to the ruins of Berlin!!!!!!!
It’s our duty as Europeans to now look for the better good and try and maintain peace at least here, so obviously we have care about what happens around us
We shouldn’t ! It’s not European countries business.. and Europe has enough problems to solve without messing up with Russia and Ukraine..
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Not being ‘European’ we are only observing the EU sponsored war.
Europe should care as much as it did for Iraq’s imaginary weapons of mass destruction , Turkish occupation of Cyprus , the crisis devestated south etc…etc.. There is no solitarity between member states in E.U no common interests and hence no common foreign policy ; E.U member states rarely agree on anything let alone matters that could cost heaps of money like sanctions etc…..E.U is like a malfunctioning vehicle which’s every wheel turns to a different direction. Europe should proceed with total unification or disintegration is inevitable
Because putin has his agents in EU and they are a large cause of illegal civil unrest. Putin wants to spread his fascism into EU and regain the old soviet empire. If anyone thinks otherwise, they are fools.
I think EU should have some balls and put a stop of this, we got Ukraine in this and we should help them to the end. My proposal si to form and EU army of all nations. I am saying this as and EU citizen and a not a paid Kremlin poster.
Russia will bully european states as long as we dont make a united stance.
Are we a world power to reckon with?
The EU should be trying to patch up relations with Ukraine and Russia, instead of stirring up animosity!
Europe really morons? any separatists? People protect their homes from the Ukrainian korateley !!!
The EU should have never been involved in Ukraine. They had an elected government an the EU supported a coup. Maybe we can get Russia to support one to overthrow the EU gov?
EU help this Ukraine?!:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw
basically because they are both in europe, one of them being a bi-continental country.
The EU should care because when Ukraine is ready, they will join the UE, but if Russia invades ucranian territory meanwhile, the EU will have less new land.
The same way the UE has care with Yugoslavia , Kosovo, Libya ….. Shouldn’t do nothing because everything that UE touch they only spoil
For “God shake” WAKE UP all you!!!!!! There isnt European Union or even ever existed!!!!!!
It was just a Germanys invention in order to find another way except war(economy) so as to enslave for one more time other Nations!!!!
But the end is coming and for once more would be by Russians
For “God shake” WAKE UP all you!!!!!! There isnt European Union or even ever existed!!!!!!
It was just a Germanys invention in order to find another way except war(economy) so as to enslave for one more time other Nations!!!!
But the end is coming and for once more would be by Russians
Europe is only caring for the natural gas prices … They would never get involved if there was no perks on Ukraine
Europe is only caring for the natural gas prices … They would never get involved if there was no perks on Ukraine
Why ? Russia is after US the most important country for the EU . EU should not have any conflict with Russia , EU should have some kind economical union with Russia . They should have a free elections in Ukraine and we should not care for Ukraine , they should decide about their future .
Why ? Russia is after US the most important country for the EU . EU should not have any conflict with Russia , EU should have some kind economical union with Russia . They should have a free elections in Ukraine and we should not care for Ukraine , they should decide about their future .
OK!! its easier to seek “solidarity” with any Big Fat One outside EU, -one by one-, instead of ..in between europeans. In search of the European Citizenship :) :) :) and Law Community.
OK!! its easier to seek “solidarity” with any Big Fat One outside EU, -one by one-, instead of ..in between europeans. In search of the European Citizenship :) :) :) and Law Community.
why ? to play the game [usa+germany+england] to get riecher ? no thanks.
why ? to play the game [usa+germany+england] to get riecher ? no thanks.
Say one thing good about UE, I will give ? 5…. Say one thing bad about UE I should receive ? 1….. I will be rich!!
Say one thing good about UE, I will give ? 5…. Say one thing bad about UE I should receive ? 1….. I will be rich!!
Because the EU’s political and media elite is lead by that of the USA. The EU became a political servant of the USA. And the USA still did not change its top political councillor staff who are traditionally “anti-Kremlin” because of the half a century long political opposition between the USA and the Soviet Union.
Why ?? What a STUPID question .. Theres an old saying “WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones” it refers to the fact the WW3 will be a NUCLEAR global war .. The spark for that world ending war is the situation in Ukraine .. Lastly its not “Ukraine” vs Russia .. Its America vs Russia, Ukraine has been hijacked by the US and is being USED to start a very dangerous, wreckless war with Russia.
Because they want countries to join the Eurozone to enlarge their empire.
Wrongly put question. It should be – why EU should care about a civil war in Ukraine ? The answer is – yes, EU should care about genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraime, but it doesnt. All it cares is pleasing US, so it sanctions the wrong guy. This is both destructive and self destructive policy.
In order to prevent the invasions and pillaging of their member countries by uncultured, mongrel nations run by criminals and thugs in search of new things to steal.
Why should we not?..there are neigbourghs,we need them to survive!
Indeed why ? Ukrain is not our problem. Russian may have Ukrain if they want.
Because if the russians are sucssesfull the will not stop
because the world is only one!
huston, we have a problem :-(
Because of megalomania?
Europe care because is the link between Ukraine and Russian.
Geo strategic position.
Carng o no caring is not an option
The eu must show firm when a conflict is solved by war. Sometimes to get peace we must show capacy to defende ourselves .
Selling weapons, tanks etc – That’s always been the reason
Lets start from the basics…Europe was a beautiful princess, who was abducted by Zeus, brought to Crete, and born three sons ? Minos, Rhadamanthys, and Sarpedon, who all became judges on the Underworld. Zeus was the father of all the children of Europe but he asked her to marry Asterion, the king of stars. And she did.
As any one can understand even the name of the “monstress creation” that all you call European Union My Ass..”has nothing to do with you…You can still rename it and give a name of your Nothern tradion/history, something like “Cave Men Union” or even better “Ape Men Union”
Got it?
HI, I am from Poland, born 1971. It happened my live till 18 year old was in socialistic Poland totaly dependant on Soviet Union. For Americans who are brainwashed by many deniers of everything I want to remind what was martial law, political police zomo, murders of oppositionnists. To those one who think that war is solution to any problems i reccomend educational trip to Auschwitz.
For 25 years, except permanent complaining on politicans like elsewhere, Poland is beautiful, prosperous, colorful country. It would be not possible without external!!! help(USA) because oppressed Poland was poor. Same is now with Ukraine. Ukraine is a bomb that needs help. If Americans think its better to sit on the chair and watch war on TV its stupid. Russian -American balance in nukes is equal. What if Russia becomes desperate? Remeber Russia was always ahed USA in the history in science. USA had money. Russia had brains. The best worldwide chess masters, hackers are from Russia.If world wont appreciate Russian power then Putin will go further and further. No country in the world can be left alone. We are too weak to act against superpowers.
no one know that what happen next ,russia is a country who never lost any millitry war,its too difficult for EU+USA. economicialy russia now big fact.so don’t angry russia cause of save our world,if if if eu+usa take mellitiry steps its risk for the world.cause on neculear war.may be it occur WW3.(russia,china,iran,syria,pakistan,venujulia,keuva,eygpt brizal.north koria more then30 cuntries joined them ),but (usa,eu,south koria,isrial,more then 50 countries may be this ally are too strong) but one thing russian allians are very bullshet they gona use atomic bomb .the world may be destroy,russian allins things very bad if we going down we will take more down thats the afrid of the world.its going to be more destructive ww1,ww2.no one count or calculate the loss.
Europe shouldn’t care about what happens in russianand Ukraine. They would just be like the US. jumping into wars and being like the big cop. I would care aboutmy own problems were just boing a big cop jumping into other people’s personal problems
Considering just how corrupt and backward the Ukrainian leadership is, and how utterly useless so many Ukrainians are, it must never be allowed to join the E.U. The E.U. already has far more slobs and WOGs than it needs