The governing Social Democrats in France were given a battering in local elections on Sunday, with the Centre-Right beating them 46% to 38% in the first round of voting. However, it was the far right Front National of Marine Le Pen that attracted the most headlines. Whilst their share of the vote was a modest 5%, they only ran in 600 cities. Given that only one in three voters had the opportunity to vote for the FN, this represents something of a victory for the party’s anti-immigration, eurosceptic message.
Still, whilst the FN is expected to do well in the European Parliament elections in May, it is still the mainstream parties that dominate the vote in the big municipalities, including Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Lille and Bordeaux. Are the far right gains in France being overblown?
Meanwhile, Le Pen’s political ally in the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, has been causing controversy after he incited a crowd of supporters to chant for “less Moroccans” and promised to “arrange that” if they voted for him. Several prominent members of his party have resigned in protest, but it’s too early to say whether the speech will have any impact on his party’s prospects in the European elections, where it has been predicted to top the polls.
Not long ago, we had a comment from Bastian, who argues that the danger from far right parties in the EU was being exaggerated “to keep ordinary citizens voting for mainstream parties”. To get a response to Bastian, we spoke to several MEPs representing a few of the different parties in the European Parliament.
We began with Margrete Auken, a Danish MEP who sits with the group of Greens. How would she respond to Bastian?
No, I disagree with Bastian. I think we really have a problem with right-wing extremism in Europe. And I think we have to be think about how we can get a more common European response to this challenge. At the same time, I understand why people are scared and why so many people feel that they are left behind by the mainstream. So, it’s not a question of making people vote for mainstream parties… I wouldn’t want people to vote for extremist parties, but then I wouldn’t call my own Green party a mainstream party. So, I disagree that political extremism is a solution to frustration with the mainstream.
When we spoke to Nils Torvalds, an MEP with the Swedish People’s Party of Finland who sits with the Liberal Democrats in the European Parliament, he argued that political extremism was a phenomenon of the political left as well as the right:
Well, my take on extremist parties, and we have them on both sides of politics – we have them to the right and to the left – my explanation for this phenomenon is that we politicians are usually playing a very dangerous and opportunistic game. We try to give our voters pleasant answers, where we should probably try to be more consistent, more accurate and more honest. So, we are actually very easily opening up the political space for opportunists, and opportunism leads to very populist approaches on both the left and right. And I really think this is a fundamental problem, and we’re going to see the results in the European elections in May. But, at the same time, I’m trying to counter this opportunism by trying to be indecently honest.
Finally, we spoke to Austrian independent MEP Hans-Peter Martin. He argued that he was scared that there were parallels between the situation today and the political extremism of the 1930s that eventually led to the outbreak of World War II:
Is the danger from far right parties being exaggerated to scare people into voting for mainstream parties? Or are politicians opening up the political space to populists by refusing to give honest answers to the challenges Europe faces? Are there parallels between the situation today and the political extremism of the 1930s? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.
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No, it’s just the beginning! We must come together to stop them.
No..its very real….as we have found out in Greece….Stop them now……
@Juila Walker
Greek political extremism whether its radical left killing people, radical right killing people or even anarchists killing people has been the norm in Greece for decades.
Greece is perhaps not a good barometer of extreme right tendencies methinks.
Nice little variation: the right hand movement kind of reminds me of something.
Yes, it is exagerated a lot.
The second one.
It’s quite exaggerated- Eurosceptic against neonazi like Golden Dawn and NPD. If there is even minority that is anti-European, it can’t be banned or put behind bars for that. EU should be democratic structure thinking about everyone. Puttin down the democratic deficit is the way to shut the mouths of the populists.
No, i do not think it is exaggerated! It is a real threat to democracy and freedom and just like in portugal for example or in germany, these extremist rigth wing parties, should be banished for good, either through the constitutionalization of this Prohibition and through criminal santions of these parties, this should be a public crime or something! ;) We should not let the few crazy, take europe back in time, to an era of fear repression or even a nazy like era! ;) The Dark past of europe, is not that far away in terms of time, it was like yestaerday, so remind the memories world war 1 and 2, the holocaust and so on! This issues NEEDS to be adressed at a European level to prevent the repeititon of dark past evenets in euroepan history, these parties should be disbanded by sriminal justice! It is needed urgent actin, NOW before it is too late!!! Remember how hitler got into power, the 2nd WW2 happened because the world was too slow to act!
the parallel is wrong because the true dictatorship is the euro. Has been Draghi, Barroso Van Roumpoy elected from a democratic election? Do most european people know their names and their ideas?
So, before talking about democracy, ask yourself those questions.
No, i do not think it is exaggerated! It is a real threat to democracy and freedom and just like in portugal for example or in germany, these extremist rigth wing parties, should be banished for good, either through the constitutionalization of this Prohibition and through criminal santions of these parties, this should be a public crime or something! We should not let the few crazy, take europe back in time, to an era of fear repression or even a nazy like era! The Dark past of europe, is not that far away in terms of time, it was like yestaerday, so remind the memories world war 1 and 2, the holocaust and so on! This issues NEED to be adressed, URGENTLY, at a European level to prevent the repetition of dark past evenets in euroepan history, these parties should be disbanded by sriminal justice! It is needed urgent actin, NOW before it is too late!!! Remember how hitler got into power, the 2nd WW2 happened because the world was too slow to act, to prevent hitler like extremisms to gorw! Remember the SLOGAN: ACT REACT IMPACT! In this sense we should ACT and REACT to prevent the NEGATIVE IMPACT of such movements! ;)
@Pedro
The EU should withhold SOLICHARITY to any EU beggar nation that continues to vote-in RIGHT wing (or indeed LEFT wing) extremists.
As regards France the only major EU nation with a highly visible EXTREME RIGHT-WING presence, the EU should threaten France with the removal of its Strasbourg EU parliament UNLESS its EXTREME-RIGHT wing parties are de-powered.
Moderate parties sadly ended up without ideas since they are looking for justifications (for their self-interests) rather than justify their own existence. So they use the fear of extremes instead of applying good governance, democracy and transparency.
Oh, yes, both sides do it:
http://euobserver.com/eu-elections/123586
Hmmm, that depends. I think that the more radical their political message the stronger the opposition. Without doubt “My way or the highway” view is related to “euroskepticism” . Y’all gonna see what EPP is made of soon enough.
Different countries, have slightly different versions, though we see what they have done and are doing to Ukraine, it needs caution and for Europe to remeber the past, remember the 70 million who died the last time radical minded be they “left” or “right” get into power, radical mind is a radical mind regardless.
In today’s society, exactly as in the 1930’s, there would be no place for the extremists should the governing parties and institutions not let a place for them. Meaning that instead of looking for ways to stop the far right better look for ways to improve financial and social conditions in our societies. Then the far right will disappear by itself for lack of room for their allegations. Otherwise it will act like the ball: the more you tap the higher it goes….
wanting to leave the undemocratic EU and control your own borders means you have no choice but to vote for non mainstream parties.I would vote for Putin or Kim Jung if it meant leaving the EU.
When the people votes, the people decides. This is a prime criteria for everyone in Europe. However, the European politicians have to ask themselves what they want; the only solution is: they have to put before national interest, for the common european good.
Really insanely liberal policies caused this! Hopefully it will not go even further right!
is the people them slef
Well, they (representatives from extreme right) are elected in a democratic manner. The same cannot be said of Van Rompuy, Ashton, Barosso, etc. As long as the EU forgets who the real assets of the EU are -its people- and treats its citizens as tax slaves, extreme right will rightfully grow. The EU has failed in supporting its citizens, in helping the poor. Maybe time the EU realises what the real priorities are instead of voting laws to protect banks and multinationals. The EU is ran from an ivory tower (soon from a multibillion egg) and loses daily its credibility.
The real threat is the lack of effort done to educate people about the global reality we live in, therefore leaving room for primitive form of thinking used by opportunist individuals more concerned about their own success than about the common good.
A lack of understanding of what forces are ruling out economy and our politics is what maintain extremist behaviors around.
You cannot rule out extremists parties because they take their strength in the intellectual misery of the masses.
What you can do is to let the people know how the world will live in today is working, and what part they can take to improve it.
As long as we do not take serious steps towards increasing the global perceptions of our populations, a serious risk exist to see a rise of populist leader exploiting misinformed people to achieve their goals.
Natural reaction of the people when you dont focus on them. Nacionalistic groups also parasiting on it ofcourse.
Far right far right… Always talking about the far right, what about the dangers of the far left? Ohhh wait Europe doesn’t want anyone to talk about it, even though Stalin killed plenty more people than Hitler and nobody in Europe gave a whit about it. Both are dangerous, this is not a movie of Indians and cowboys, why no one talks about the growing dangers of the far left?. Oh ya, they won the war.
Never exaggereted
If I remember from the history well, the far right parties that emerged during the 30s were influenced by the Economic crisis of 1929. While the States decided on the road of the New Deal, in Europe the political space was invaded by far right parties in almost all countries (and not only in Germany or Italy, as it is a common misconception). Now, I think the situation is almost identical; the far right parties are powered by the Economic crisis that still runsacks the whole European continent. The only way to combat political extremism is to counteract the effects of the Economic crisis on the peoples of Europe; mainly the unemployment (esp. of the youth), the flexibility of work and the general shrinking of the welfare state.
Why take the risk? We saw what happened the last time.. Freedom of speech and all, yes.. But I think we have to start thinking before voting for or supporting parties like these.. Use your brains.. Will they really deliver what they promise? Do we want them to lead us? Do we really want to go back to what we had before? Europe during the 50s? (not on economic terms of course but on social ones)….
the danger today is the current EU.
yes you are right.. dont worry…
.. lets wait until a little eurohitler rises in every country ..
I think is not exaggerated, rather underestimated. A lot is said about the traditional right-wing parties like FN but nobody is talking about right-wing revolution that is coming with movements as the indignados, occupiers or the M5S. They remind me the 30s much more than Le Pen & Co.
Why every pro-European page are infested of anti-European people? Because they can’t bear that other people think differently than them. They can’t bear someone loves something they hate. And this people want to bring us their world of hate and darkness. Of course is not exaggerated!
If there are far- left parties then why shoud the far- right parties be baned? I personaly think that if the far- right parties obey the euro vision for welfare states then there is no need for ban. And wasn’t the communism a far- left, yet with a censorship? So don’t play dumb when speaking about far- something parties.(as I remember far- left Stalin killed more people than far- right Hitler)
4,8% is a warning, but did not merit the media coverage. The 8,8 percentage points that UMP’s held on the socialists was.
History has the tendency to repeat itself. Different people, different situations but the outcome is mostly the same. Thus means we will never change. It requires only for the past generations to fall in order for young people to rise.
History has the tendency to repeat itself. Different people, different situations but the outcome is mostly the same. Thus means we will never change. It requires only for the past generations to fall in order for young people to rise.
Blessings and wisdom for people in FRance. All they need in abundance and wealth so they can realise the values and famous history.
Despair and poverty are the soil on which political extremities grow and thus the roots we have to tackle.
In a state of good economy, education and healthy society, extremities have no medium to feed upon, since the very core reason of their existence is absent.
It is natural that in these times of hardship they flourish more. Hopefully we can overcome our troubles in the near future and solve many imminent threats of our future at once.
Are there any reasons behind that one can freely name?
the real problem is the parties that call themselves left side but are right side….
Why must the EU MP’s always fall back on the usual accusations of “extremist” and “populist” against any party or person who does not agree with the way the EU is going?….how about exchange these words for “represents majority of public opinion”
When will the self important, arrogant, euro-elite realise there is far more danger of civil unrest from the dictatorial attitude of the EU then there is from any far right party
the real problem is with EU itself…as for the far-right parties….they have been part of joint goverments in many EU countries for years now,if not decades,would that be in Scandinavia,Austria and Baltic ones,in some of those they are part of goverments as we speak,like Norway and Finalnd,in Baltic ones from what i hear its even worse…cant remember more at the moment…i didnt see anyone in EU thinking them as a problem…why?cause they werent anti-EU like the ones that are seen as threat now…like Lepen in France or the other one in Holland that seems to be leading in poles there…those they have a clear anti-EU policy…basically pretty classical double standar and hypocritical position of EU,like always….using the far-right/facist *fear* to discredit the anti-eu parties that are on the rise cause of EU policies,offcourse anti-EU parties are getting popular everywhere and not just parties of the far-right…also we shouldnt forget the nazi and facist elements that EU is supporting also in Ukraine
In part I agree with Paul X. However, that said, what is it the EU is not getting about how the majority of the citizens of the entire EU feel about what has taken place in their lives that is detestable and returning them to the nineteenth century.
They don’t want Corporations and big money running the politics in the Union. A way has to be found to remove us all from the reliance on borrowing to uphold our way of life.
They don’t want bankers getting million pound per annum bonuses when those same banks owe the tax payer billions in debt repayment.
Thy don’t want what they paid as tax for their education facilities, health facilities or running the authorities in any way to be used to prop up the IMF or any other lending machine, which is a private concern run for and by billionaires of the world in order for them to have more. It doesn’t make sense on any level.
They do not want food banks and austerity to take second place over Aid to the rest of the world, as they are paying for government to take care of ‘Europeans’ first. If you want to use their money to enhance the lives of others it must be put to a vote, as in ‘direct democracy’ so that those who are donating can decide what they want on any given donation. They want a voice in how government spends their money. The bailing out of the banks for example should have been put to the public who pays for it. Not simply decided by those who are going to benefit from such a move.
They don’t want their pensions stolen in order to make a very few families richer than they already are. That is fraud and those who do it should be charged with criminality.
They do not want the trade deal with the USA, it goes against the welfare of European people. Or, in other words is not in their interests.
They do not want a government of people who do not pay taxes out of their personal earnings themselves. That leaves the tax payer open to corruption and laws not in the best interests of the people.
They do not want a government that lies to them and wangles money for selling the nations people as serfs to the corporation one way or the other. In other words no Tony Blairs.
They do want officials to be accountable for the actions and policies they take on behalf of the countries they lead, if those actions are not in the interest of the citizens of that country. For example creating wars to enable regime change, going to war on a lie, warring for any other reason than to defend the peoples of Europe when attacked.
They do want a cancellation of all European debt to enable each nation to start again on a level footing and to rid them of the choking financial groups that are only on the take of tax payers money for their own pockets. Stop using tax payers money to fund private companies and corporations by giving them tax avoidance principles enabling the to remove funds from the country they are selling to.
They don’t want mass immigration when such immigration causes severe disharmony in their own State and when those same immigrants become a financial burden to the people. Mass immigration is neither necessary or in the interests of the nations tax payers on any level. Employment must be first and always given to the indigenous people of any State. And the young trained and educated for the work and careers that arise. The rest of the world, if it wants the standard of living seen in the EU, must follow the methods that enables Europe to reach that standard of living. They must work to make their own countries equal on every level if they so admire our way of life.
The citizens do not want to spend their lives at work for more than 8 hours per day five days a week. They have other needs of family life and leisure interests than to be enslaved to a company or job until they drop, regardless of what that job may be. They want their taxes from their hard work to go toward what they were told it was for, their benefits in times of need. For their education and their health needs, not to satisfy the whims of political ideals, unless those whims and ideals are open to referendum before they are put into practice. It is the peoples money and if you have to lie to get it then that is fraud a criminal offense.
They want the State to stay out of their rights to, freedom of expression, rights of association and religious beliefs in the real sense of those rights. Not manipulate to force unrealistic ideals that have no proven advantage to the nations as a whole. And to stay out of their rights to choose how to they decide to live and raise their children. Forcing a family to abandon its children in order to increase the work force for any business in order to hold down pay levels must be made unlawful.
If house prices can be left to rise as high as the sky, then so can salaries.
And they don’t want to be forced into being experiments in social changes that are not of their choosing. In essence the rights to be free from State control and frippery.
The two big issues in the UK with left leaning policies are mass immigration and the subsequent change to culture it produces, and being forced to accept marriage as a free for all to any group with alternative practices. Polygamy, homosexual marriage, and the acceptance of cultures that mutilate and subjugate women. All of these enforcements reduce marriage taken by a man and a woman reduce it to the ridiculous which in turn negates the spiritual connection between the two sexes. Civil partnership give equality to deviant lifestyles, marriage is only between two people of opposite sexes.
There is no separation between people of left and right, because to separate any of these requirements for any nation is a mad mans charter.
I know I’ve missed out many levels but this is a starting point. Honesty and openness is the name of this game.
The so called danger is that politicians fail to wake up to the need for transformation of our ways. In the face of mass unemployment, devastating losses of capital and income, the politicians still discuss expansion of the Union to include countries like Turkey. There is more reason to question the “Agreement” with Ukraine, ruled now by people that make Le Pen look like a socialist.
We face an issue with media hype, where Le Pen’s 4,65% of votes got more press than UMP’s lead on ruling socialists by over 8,8% points. The media issue will be with us for some time. There is a market for reporting facts, unmet today.
for the same reasons in 1930 and the same reasons in 2014. all for the markets and banks and nothing for the people. the history came back becouse EU do not know history or forget history and make the same mistakes
In answer to the question , yes and no.
Its like this, Brussels is also full of extremists. Europhiles are just as extreem as an extremist can get.
Nationalist parties are in fact cut from the same cloth.
The problem is that the europhiles have opened pandoras box, they pushed the agenda regardless of what people wanted, in turn fueling racism and facism and they are helping sow the seeds of hate.
The europhiles or Verhofstad/Alde group have a dilemma, referendums in the countries of europe or the alternative which is to ignore the wishes of the people. They have decided that in the netherlands whatever you vote for the VVD/D66 will always win, the fact is they are the same political party but with a different name, but both fall under Alde group and thier leader is Verhofstad.
Yes dutch europhile swindeling at its best.
Referendums ,noway they know the outcome, so they have chosen to water down democracy to achieve their goals.
Its very sad to see the propaganda being used, the BS, the lobbyists and banksters creating the laws, Merkel wanting to start brainwashing our children at school into believing the euro is good, my god i cant believe anybody would condone the behavior of these europhiles, its like a bad b movie.
The danger from the far right is as dangerous as the far left.
Geert Wilders rectified what he said, he meant the criminal aspect not the ordinary folks, but as usual the eu propaganda machine smelled blood , dutch tv is pro eu and brussels funded, so they didnt miss the opportunity to smeer Wilders. 98% of dutch news is BS.
Im still a firm believer of independant coutries in europe, it just works better!
If you add up whats been going on and stop sleepwalking through life youll see this is the biggest corporate power grab in history and it almost over , and then god help us.
The banking union is nothing more than grabbing financial control, next is political integration.
Just like Ukraine, eu propaganda started the trouble because Putin kicked out the Rothchilds. Billions have gone to the ukraine and a bbc report say billions have been transfered out , almost 40 tons of ukrainian gold have disappeared into the federal reserve bank for so called safe keeping in the hands of american banksters. We know whom owns the federal reserve bank and its not the american people.
There are very few countries around the globe that are allowed to print thier own money, its Rothschild cash folks , yes all of it.
So there we have it folks, another case of the pot calling the kettle black.
All is not as is seems and its the ordinary hard working people who are being played like pingpong balls by the powers that be.
The europhiles are the problem here.
Time to smell the coffee.
The only “weapon”EU has against far right and far left is to cut down All the dept of All the EU members. If NOT i believe “black days”are coming for ALL the Europeans!!!!
what danger talking?
Debt and unemployment are not created by far-right parties …
why not talk about the dangers of the “centrist” parties?
in Greece have surpassed the 4,000 suicides and 25%unemployment
Very dangerous if you ask me.
luckly not
Questa Donna ha le p…e.
FN now is a mere centre-right party. It is the result of a genial political strategy.
She maybe will win next presidential elections, because Le Pen in no Fini. She is driving, Fini was driven by Berlusconi.
I have no fear of a modern centre-right party in France.
Be aware of false radical-chic lefties, instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKtCVblxDRc#t=26
It is very odd this question as last night Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg our deputy Prime Minister had a full debate on LBC, I had wanted to listen to it or view it. And guess what, the TV listing didn’t show it, so I couldn’t look at it, and I could not find it on the radio.
This morning I tried to find the full video on every part of the internet, and was only able to come up with clips. Then I tried to find the radio show somewhere anywhere and again no connection to it.
Then I tried to go into the UKIP site as I thought it may be on there, but a window came up that told me that I could not connect to that as it was considered an unsafe site. Does this mean they and it have been censored and taken off the internet?
If it does mean that, why has this happened? Any of you UKIP guys reading this care to let me know what has happened as all over the newspapers they give clips and a write up but you cannot access the full video.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/uk-politics-video/10724919/Nick-Clegg-v-Nigel-Farage-in-EU-debate.html
Catherine I heard on the news this morning it will be available on catch up TV, exactly what channel and when is still a mystery
From what I’ve heard the debate was probably 50/50 though from the clips I’ve seen Farage seemed to come over better……he certainly looked less of a buffoon than he usually does while Clegg looked as smarmy as ever
@Paul X:
Thank you, Paul, for your kind response. I found it this afternoon. Made interesting watching. Here it is for any of those who are thinking they don’t know where they are with this bunch of opaque eye glazed over pilgrims.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-lbc-leaders-debate-live—26th-march-87667
Not only exagerated, but done on purpose to scare people and keep them away from anti europe parties. Far left today means nationalism and legality, as to say, america. And nobody fears them and their life style, so…
Anche noi dovremmo avere un uomo o una donna cos’ . Mi piacerebbe sentire cosa direbbe alla merkel .magari un bel cagliate
???????????? ? ?????? ???? , ? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ? ??????? ??????? ? ??????? ?? ?? ??????????? ?. ?????? ?????????? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ??????? ?? ????????? ? ????? ????? , ????? ? ?????? ? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????????!
People have to be less scared of right wing parties especially nationalists, the general population has no clue what nationalists actually stand for. They are often confused with fascists by many people and fascists are potentially very dangerous for a state/country.
In 1936 we thought the nazi party is “exaggerated a lot” and it can’t honestly be that bad, right?
Just look at that what Chamberlain said, such a joyous chap this Hitler is. Why we could have a nice cup o’ tea with the old boy if he cared about that.
We are ignoring this growing current at our own peril.
And having been very active on the internet i can tell you the social media is playing a KEY role in promoting right-wing ideologies of “survival of the fittest” and other nazi-like policies.
Youtube is crawling with neo-nazis, Facebook has simialr pages, the russians are swarmed by them too, despite Putin’s claims.
We got a big problem and the easiest way to fix this is to make all neo-nazi parties ILLEGAL.
Greece has put a lid on their nazis…for now…by imprisoning that fat bastard. But this won’t last forever if the underlining problems are not solved.
As the crisis deepens unemployed and uneducated young people without critical thinking skills WILL join these movements.
The far right political movements can be easily banned from mainstream politics. The trick here is that certain “Centre Right” governments have no interest in outlaw the right extremes because they are effectively use them to achieve their political agendas. Exactly the same thing it happened in left side of political spectrum. Usually the extremes are just noisier but at the “right” socio economical moment, they can be dangerous. Luckily those moments are rare.
And, Ironworker, you don’t believe the left can be equally if not more dangerous?
You cannot ban a political leaning as that leaning is too powerful to ban. Too many people know when what they are being told and having to swallow is bull and goes against their best interests, as has happened today with too, so called, far left policies today. The swell against any extreme creates the necessity for extreme in the opposite direction.
Think about what the masses see as extremes they are having to live with today and then ask yourself what you think about those extremes and why. And more important what you would do about them.
I think there are parallels between the situation today and the political extremism of the 1930s.
@Catherine Benning
“Exactly the same thing it happened in left side of political spectrum.”
I quoted from my previous message.
But so far I ain’t see any shade improvement in “social” side of Union yet. All I saw was (Centre Right + Far Right) westerners defending fiercely their welfare and whipping Romania and Bulgaria for virtually no reason.
@ironworker:
What most people are not prepared to listen to, or indeed internalise, is the notion of world wide banking conspiracy that infiltrates everything that took place in our history up to the present in our society. I’m putting this link up for people to take note and really go through the entire sequence of events from start to finish. Once that has sunk in you will understand far more of what is presently happening politically. After that information what you hear politicians say it all becomes absolutely clear in a way that is frighteningly enlightening. As the old message goes, ignorance is bliss. For, once you know what the game is, you have no other objective in the soul than to change it. Like the great men thinkers of history fought hard to do. you have to listen to this full documentary fully from start to finnish. it is riveting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KpAqrIUEu8&list=PL778B05C915932234
You will see the citizen is manipulated by the money supply on every level of their existence. And that needs to change dramatically otherwise our state of serfdom will never end. .
@Catherine,
Thanks for the linkt to the debate. May I ask you, what could Clegg have meant at 2:11 with “standing tall at our OWN European BACKYARD”? To me from the Continent this sounds quite arrogant. Do I misunderstand him?
@ Bastian:
Well, politicians do have a jargon all of their own, don’t they? This speech pattern is adopted in order to create leeway, should they say what they really mean and it becomes controversial. Vagueness gives them a get out clause should the matter arise later causing a dispute in the press or something like that.
What I think he meant was, that rather than look elsewhere for political affiliation we should, first and foremost, be united with our closer European neighbours. He was suggesting, I believe, we are culturally connected and in step with them as with no other people. They understand us best and we them as our roots spring from the same peat. This would indicate a natural symbiosis.
I agree with him on this, as I am, as you know, very pro a united Europe. My thinking, unlike his, is we need to be in there in order to collude with others of Europe that want to see establishment changes toward their faulty thinking. I feel the common European mind set is in turmoil at present, over the way our policies have collectively moved toward a US modus operandi that needs to change back to a eurocentric stance. This would limit their ‘big money’ influence on all our lives and by so doing, lessen our growing discontent in being culturally and politically ignored as Europeans. Britain should adopt the Euro and drop the pound thereby reducing the power of the US petrodollar, then move closer to agreement and settlement with Russia. The world influence from such a unique standpoint of separation from stultifying interests of banking would free us up to make changes more suited to the enhancement of ordinary citizens. I repeat, though, this was not what Clegg was saying in that broadcast.
Nigel Farage is a big banking and US patron. His vision although not stated but hidden, is more corporate power. You hear him on about the rest of the world meaning US and serf related subjugation. What gave him away was his refusal to state what he knows is creating a lot of this kerfuffle in the UK, is his previous spoken views on gay marriage. He realised since givng that speech, that gay marriage is a US instigated and driven act and not, as he previously believed, originating in Europe via Scandinavia. The public in the UK are very anti gay marriage although they try to cover that enormously in the media. As they did in that debate when they had a loud clap from a chosen audience. Thereby trying to convince Brits that their voicing of discontent is not of the majority when in fact, as in France, it is.
Dear @Catherine
I watched that youtube movie quite a while ago. That’s noting new to me, and I tend to agree to a certain point. A bit “parallel reality” gather under “Conspiracy Theory” umbrella. Also Michael Moore have a point in SIKO were he reveal that in U.S paradoxically the private medical insurance founds management (CEO’S) are in fact the huge obstacles that prevent jobs creation. The elders security versus the middle class jobs… However, in the meantime I check a few british websites were UKIP’s presented as a winner in the upcoming euro elections and Nigel Farage’s political platform based on”- Beware, here they come and take your job !”. Certainly, it raises some concern among poor brits and I cannot blame them for that but sorry, it’s all a big hoax. There are a lot more other global events/tendencies to be taken seriously rather than this clown.
@Ironworker.
I do not support UKIP. I would not vote for them. However, some of what they promote makes sense to me as well as to many across Europe.
The EU is indeed undemocratic. They do not hear the voice of the people that pay their wages. They are not there to look after themselves and their secret whims, they are there to serve us the people and to look after ‘our’ best interests with ‘our’ consent. Once they stop doing that they no longer have a mandate to lead.
So, unless they stop pressing their politically correct agenda, as in Corporate control of our money, mass immigration from outside Europe, do not deal with inequality within European before passing common law status, as well as adopting religious policies that affect our traditions adversely, then of course border control will become a big issue. What would any sane person expect? Especially when people are facing nothing but imposed and needless austerity. 48% of young people out of work is ridiculous, not to mention the rest of us without a stable employment, this is a failure of government. And we European democracies will not stand for it.
Add to that the unrest created by gay marriage and adoption, which is hidden by flaunting untrue figures as if we are fools, then yes, you will have UKIP style rises in popularity as a result and, yes, it is deserved. They are not looking after the needs of the people that feed them. (By the way the figure against gay marriage and adoption in the UK according to a poll of 77,000 was 68% against, which was a gross understatement) yet it was pushed through with embarrassing speed resulting in a farcical turn out upsetting millions across my country last Saturday. And we see what is happening in France.
The EU has no right to expand its procurement of bankrupt new States without first getting the consent of the people who have to pay for it. And the idea that a US freak called Nuland can dare voice the words to her colleague, saying, f—k the EU is in fact telling all the citizens of Europe they must f—k off if they don’t like playing their war games. My answer to her and the clowns in the White House is, you too can f—k off, back to where you come from and take your bombs with you maestro, we don’t want your kind running our lives. Go play those war games across your own states and have fun with it there.
A democratic vote counts. And that it is not left should not make a difference.
i sure hope so
lol nope.
They are already!
Since the traditional parties failed to respond to the needs of the people then the far- wing parties will!
Both extremes the “far right” and Far left. Don’t forget this last one… Anyway they will be more powerfull but, not too much. 120 votes in the EP (two “far ideologies”).
Unfortunately your far right parties are often a bit strange. One never tells whether they’re right or far left.
If leaders do not strengthen the european institutions, then yes
Lets hope so.
You bet!!!
yes and that’s democracy, i am far rightist but in no way i am racist or want a dictatorship ^^ anybody remembers all those monarchis in germany who opposed to hitler? get over the second world war, none of this parties wants what hitler wanted so get over it.
No,they won’t.
?etter them than the real facists in ECB and other european bueracratic institutions that only consider people as numbers and how much profit they can make from them.People want change….EU isnt viable at its current form.
Vote UKIP, vote FN, vote LA.O.S! ! !
Euroskeptics all the way!
So the Cycle is ending… Far Right rules… some people died… Third World War.
?lliterate citizens will vote for them.Ruling crooked E.U. elite created them in order to stop voting for pro-citizen parties and persons and continue to steal and supress citizens fortunes and rights.
though I would like to think they don’t pose a danger, I can’t bring myself to believe that. here’s a little essay I found browsing youtube comments, I think it’s pretty well formulated
“the future of France is europe.
entirely europe.
Europe conquered the world… imagaine what would have happened if they were united. France isn’t strong anymore, Europe is the strongest economic power in the world. do you want to be in a feeble nation? small, discrete with just your tiny family? or in a proud union, of the strongest and brightest.
of course europe has it’s problems, but that’s how all great things start.
now for nationalism. I have a few words.
Hitler (started off exactly the same as le Pen, killed 20+ mil people)
Stalin (still nationalism, fake social nationalism killed 30+ mil people)
Napoleon (imperialism killed several million people)
1920s USA (great, if it continued, we’dd all live under Stalin, and isolationism completely responsible for the great depression)
Pakistan India (their nationalist clashes killed millions)
now when people threw nationalism out the window.
Rome (with all it’s colonies, greatest cvilisation which every live)
Allied forces WW1 (beat germany. france, UK, and Russia would have all died if they continued individually)
Allied forces WW2 (same as above, except that Hitler’s purely nationalistic ideas would have cost everyone’s freedom)
It’s crasy how people can think that their country is the best just because they’re born there.
it’s like french scientist arguing with a German scientist
FR: Hey, I believe that my theory of nothing going faster then light is correct
GR: No, I believe that my theory that stuff can go faster then light is correct
FR: Fuck no! I believe it because I was born where my theory was invented
GR: Fuck no! My theory is correct because I was born where it was invented
FR: well I believe in what my entire familiy believed in for generations
GR: well I believe in what my entire familiy believed in for generations
FR: my great great grand father was french so I believe it
GR: my great great grand father was German so I believe it
Would you trust someone like that in science? why would you in politics?
Nationalism is an idiotic and stupid belief, it can only lead to trouble. it has only lead to trouble.”
Hopefully not.
Front National is the ONLY serious party of far-right in Europe. But even if it is i think that if the economical situation in EU goes better it has no chance.
If we don’t go to the polls
Why RIGHT party? What does it mean? Originally, it is only a spatial position in the place where deputies were gathering. Now, the European authorities have given an extremist aspect to those parties. Front national is a party for the nation. And nation means a group of poeple sharing the same language common values and culture. It is so obvious that Europe wants to destroy that. They want to destroy in poeple the love for their country, what brings them together. In the term national socialism, it is not the word national that should be shocking but the word socialism. Look at the destiny of the native Indians, of the Walloonian culture in Europe, of the people of Vende in France … Their so called “social” ideas succeeded where Hitler failed. By the mean of war or manipulation, eradicating a culture or a group of poeple is a crime.
No they won’t
Well considering that the FN did very well in local elections recently, there is no doubt the FN will do very well in a proportional representation / low turnout election. That is of course very sad.
I HOPE THAT WHO SUPPORT MERKEL LOSE
hi great gojohnnyb.
Go beyond just talking about the eurosceptics and the extreme groups. Why people dont trust the democracy system? Why people dont want anymore vote for right or left? Why people dont trust the voting system? Why people think that today the United Europe is not such a good thing? Personnaly, i think it s good but the way the governors do it is not so good! So people turn on the eurosceptic parties because they need more social justice and more control on the social walfare (too much abuses, high taxes, unemployment etc.). Not a totalitary system but not a totally liberal system too.Time to change dear governors.If not people will not anymore recognize you as such.Keepers of the democracy or keepers of private economic interests? You to decide. Debating or voting is not enough. The power is given by peope so it could be taken by people too. Do not forget it.
No.
I tihnk when these parties first started making gains they were seen as a protest vote but dangerous uneducated rhetoric aimed at the working class has seen a rise that in some countries is akin to the rise of the National Socialism Party in Germany in the 1930s. They play on working class fears and present a right wing answer to them. The way parties like Jobbik operate sees mass nazi rallies and rife anti-semitism which isn’t acceptable. You think history provides a disturbing lesson but no! The rise is terrifying that people are so stupid in these beliefs. I saw a woman on UK TV call for immigrants to be deported from the UK but I bet she had no idea of the economic impact of such a thing. These parties will at some point address issues of racial purity, something perhaps my Wilders has typified in his anti-morrocan speech and we could see genocide return, it IS a possibility. Many thought it wouldn’t happen after the holocaust but then Srebinicia happened.
People are ignorant and ill-educated in general over the issues of immigration and the fact that a lot of European countries still should be obliged to fulfil reparations for their dark imperial pasts. In the UK we are never educated about the dark side of the British empire, I had to dig around to find out about the genocides Britain committed in Kenya for example.
The rhetoric of the far right is uneducated evil.
@ Sam Murray:
What is the this dangerous uneducated rhetoric you speak of? Can you be specific? Not that I am for any particular group. but I want to know what you think it is that these people tell the public and have them believe it that doesn’t coincide with the experience they have in their daily lives.
I mean, lets look at the last twenty to thirty years of political rule we have all lived under. Since the Regan/Thatcher days of free market policy. How has the ordinary man in the street fared? From what I see it has taken away almost every advancement made through the work of trade unions and others to where we are now living a frightening and repressive existence. Had this not happened do you think these parties you are so against would have thrived?
The rich are growing richer than they ever dreamed could happen since the middle ages, and yet you want to go on backing that system with your vote. How crazy can that be?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_glFb0oWs
Or, if you have more time to invest in truth. Although this is also citing the US economy, as we in Europe have an identical practice it is identical to our state of affairs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm1dEqSxkB4
“People are ignorant and ill-educated in general over the issues of immigration”
Wrong, it is the people who see the real impact of immigration… the politicians live in their ivory tower studying statistics while the people in towns like Boston have streets, schools & surgeries full to capacity due to immigration
“and the fact that a lot of European countries still should be obliged to fulfil reparations for their dark imperial pasts”
Ok…so just exactly how long should these countries suffer for the sins of their forfathers? 100 years , 500 years? for eternity?….. So countries from Britains colonial past are entitled to benefit from my taxes just because of what people did centuaries ago?
the federalist fanatics running your eu who will NOT STOP.
First of all, you can’t “equalise” extreme right with extreme left. Regardless that many politicians, dictators and terorist groups in the past have “abused” the concept and the term of “left”, the humanitarian, social and altruistic content of the left ideology is in direct contrast with the racist and unhumaine ideology of the extreme right. They could not be compared and they don’t pose the same hazards to the society.
No, it?s just the beginning! We must come together to stop this rise from becoming systemic in our societies, the threat is very real! Social cohesion is under threat by the extremes of the Political spectrum. The UK has seen the rise of the extremist parties, particularly the Far Right! UKIP campaigns on an Anti-EU and Immigration stance, however a vote for UKIP is voting for much more than these two points, it’s a return to mesocheny and intolerance towards many social groups! For example Farage has been very open in suggesting if the UK was to leave the ECHR he would repeal the equalities laws that enable the LGBT communities to marry!
He would banish maternity pay and other laws that don’t discriminate!
I personally believe the Media have a huge responsibility towards this rise, often giving a lot of air time to these parties, however almost no time to the Greens, the difference being the Greens have MPs, however UKIP have none!
The rise of the extreme left is more of an issue in Ireland, Sinn Féin, Socialist Party, Socialist Workers Party etc.
The danger is within: incompetence and lack of values across the board, and certainly among those currently in power. The rise of the extreme wings are reactionary movements – they are not the result of a lot of thinking and a reasoned choice. When you look at the failure of fixing our current issues, while still looking to expand the Union, you have the telling sign of who’s the Problem.
Looks like Kiev? No, it`s Brussels!
http://rt.com/news/water-cannons-brussels-protest-405/
Yes, It’s very dangerous. We must stop it immidietly.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2010:083:0389:0403:en:PDF
http://www.tempi.it/videogallery/razzisti-fascisti-omofobi-ii-rumore-non-puo-imporsi-sul-rumore-il-silenzio-si?fb_action_ids=603416599736974&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582#.Uz8Ezc29REI
People vote for who they want. Far right or far left, moderate or centre. That is democracy. All the rest is socialist protectionism.
le estreme destre e sinistre sono per il ritorno agli stati nazionali . La UE sta fallendo ? E’ il caso di interrogarsi li’ . streme the left and right are for the return to the nation states. The EU is failing? And ‘the case to question them’
le estreme destre e sinistre sono per il ritorno agli stati nazionali . La UE sta fallendo ? E’ il caso di interrogarsi li’ . streme the left and right are for the return to the nation states. The EU is failing? And ‘the case to question them’
It’s a consequence of greed.
It is, but for very good reason! Like climate change. Both are very exaggerated issues that are influenced by most people?s simplistic understanding of the world. You can?t approach the majority of people with common sense and argument, only shock-value will do the deed. And if you break it down, who are those, who vote extremist parties? It must be people with no sense of consequence or sustainability. And yes, it is influenced by their socially challenging environment and their perceived disenfranchisement from their governments, but that?s just correlative. People, who are capable to vote extreme, are specific types of character with conceptual limitations.
No, of course not. Just wait and see what fucking the Europe will turn into.
Far right is the Capitals response to the far left rise. Btw, the risk of far right we already know, we know what they want… but, what about the rise of far left? what is the problem? more democracy, more equality, more justice, better education, better healthy system… for everyone?
support your local far right parties, we are tired really tired of this EU. are we proud to be european ? yes, sure we are proud to be european, for culture and history, but here we wanna live in Rome, Italy and never be Rome, german suburb. only a europe of peoples can be, not a eu that works for the power of a single country, I hope Italy and UK continue to work togheter for this common ideal and france join this fight soon, we don’t want a new USSR in europe with Berlin like Moscow!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sharmelsheikhlove/
Marco Canfora your misconceptions mislead you dearly!
I think that we must pay attention to the evolution of right-wing extremism in Europe. People forget too easily.
Yes there is exaggeration. The pro-EU groups are scared of what may happen with far-right extremists rising up, but what it shows is the an increasing tiredness with the EU having lack of accountability to normal people. We see a creeping federalism with the EU which has caused far-right parties to become more popular. It’s a protest to see how long the EU can remain stable, but is only a danger to the EU institutions rather than the people within.
Creeping Federalism is not the problem inside Europe. It is the fanatical spread of ‘anti quality of life measures’ being taken by the entire European political sector at a pace that is not only extraordinary, it’s sinister. The dictatorship we are seeing taking place, the piece by piece removal of democracy for the set up thay want us to endure and the added enforced acceptance of political correctness going against the way of life of for the majority of Europe’s citizens has become suffocating. And now the determination to break the political parties that are searching for the disenfranchised nations people to vote them out as they can see the mass withdrawal of this insanity by its citizens.
And sadly, I’m changing my mind altogether about the UK being part of the EU. When the USA and big business media is pushing relentlessly and with threats for us to remain within Europe, I have to accept that it as one force and not as I believed, a separate force, of two different interests, I run for my life.
The events that took place and are taking place in the Ukraine has made it obvious the EU and the UK are one part and parcel of the spread of total Americanisation. Therefore the only way to get free of this is to separate from the centre and go it alone. Indeed a pity but facts have to be faced.
What Mr Farage will learn from this though, I believe and hope, is not the the enemy of our lifestyles lies within Europe at its core but with the grip US financial markets have on us all.
This expert tells it would be far easier to disentangle the UK than thought previously.
http://www.williamdartmouth.com/docs/Out_Of_The_EU_and_into_the_world.pdf
To me the problem is not even the parties and their motives, but the people that vote for them. It signals another rise in selfish individualism, always going for the ‘easiest’ solution rather than the best solution. And the ease some parts of the population are spoon-fed with populist anti-everything rethoric and actually have them fanatically believing it, they seem bo be critical towards everything but criticism itself, which leads me to believe those people lack rationale and the willingnes to actually check things for truth and come up with an opinion of themselves.
The growth of support for nationalist parties throughout Europe can seem to indicate, that the populations of Europe are worried about the centralized form of coordination, that has been tightened and extended in connection with attempts to administer the financial and economic crisis.
This can be seen in France as well as in Greece.
The eventual solution to that sort of problems may be to reconstruct the union around a principle of negotiated coordination, which I have described elsewhere. (Post 16.4.2014 at debate named “Is the European Union too close to its U.S. ally?”)
That would imply that the union will have to build upon and maintain differences in economic and social culture among the European countries instead of developing conformity and uniformity between them.
The current form of national cultural differences between the European countries can be traced back to the romantic national movements in the nineteenth century.
These movements may have increased the internal coordination in each country or rather the internal coordination with respect to each national grouping for instance through developing national languages but may at the same time have left a problem with regard to coordination between the different groupings.
This last coordinative problem can be seen as a major cause leading to the two world wars.
A solution to this problem based on one group being able to dominate other groups may and did lead to hatred, anger and fear.
Such emotions are often considered as irrational, but they may turn out to have something to do with synergetic problems and considerations.
Hatred may be due to lack of complementarity, whereas anger may indicate a lacking correspondence between what is occurring on a small scale everyday level of activity and the way things are being administered on a larger scale. Such discrepancies can take the form of corruption and misuse.
Fear may have something to do with not being able to rely on things and not being able to know what is up and down with respect to the way society is formed.
Fascism in its milder forms may have something to do with one national group trying to impose order in such a situation through its own undue domination of other groups, but it may easily lead to less rather than more synergy.
The European Union is trying to solve coordinative issues between member states by way of centralized legislative dispositions and by opening up for free market forces to operate.
This may possibly reduce the coordinative problems between the cultural groupings by creating more uniformity, but it may at the same time reduce the possibility of maintaining the internal coordination in each grouping.
This may for instance have something to do with outsiders having access to social security programs in countries, where they do not really belong.
It seems that substituting more continuous coordinative schemes of negotiations for fixed and rigid centralized forms may be a way to use diverse cultural evolution to create synergy. This can for instance be achieved through discovering and developing complementarity between economic and social cultural differences that results form such evolution.
There are some interesting economic considerations connected with such a reconstruction.
The economic theory that might be able to support it is still in the process of being developed, since it will require advanced evolutionary dynamic modelling, but names like Brian Arthur and Giovanni Dosi can be mentioned.
I may take such questions up in a different context.
Politically it may require something like a radical constructivist form of conservatism to handle these matters, since it will be important to maintain continuity in connection with changes that results from negotiated coordination.
Some sort of political innovation thus seems to be needed, and that may turn out to be the outcome or answer to the present wave of nationalism.
It will require comprehensive discussions of essential questions to consider and prepare for a possible reconstruction of the union. It does not seem however, that the events of the present situation are bringing up such discussions.
World War III here we come…