romania people

Last year, the UK Independence Party (UKIP) predicted that Romanians and Bulgarians would surf into Britain on an “unprecedented crime wave”, bringing with them a “tidal flood of new immigrants”. The opening of the floodgates would apparently come after working restrictions on citizens of both countries were lifted on 1 January 2014. Romanians in particular were accused of being “new Fagins”, running child pickpocket gangs and sparking a “crime explosion” (a “crimesplosion”?), with up to 5% of the population of Romania pouring into the UK.

Well, now the floodgates have been opened in Britain and seven other EU Member States for almost two months, and a recent survey of airlines and coach companies operating between the UK and Romania and Bulgaria has found no change in the numbers coming from either country. In fact, Romanians and Bulgarian migrants tend to prefer other EU countries to Britain; with 96 per cent of Romanian migrants choosing destinations other than the UK.

Still, many of our commenters remain unconvinced. We had a comment sent in from Paul arguing that:

citizen_icon_180x180Even one person who comes to our country with no intention of contributing to society is one too many. That one person is depriving someone who works and pays their way of what they are entitled to. Nobody should be allowed to enter the UK without proof that they are able to support themselves, and as a lifelong UK taxpayer I’m perfectly entitled to say that. I prefer to choose what charities I contribute to

We took this comment to Evgeni Kirilov, a Bulgarian MEP who sits with the  Social Democrats in the European Parliament. What would he say to Paul?

KirilovWell, to Paul I would say that in Great Britain it is already a proven fact that, after a number of weeks of Bulgarians and Romanians being able to work freely everywhere in the EU, the majority of these citizens are coming interested in jobs and hard work. They’re not looking to exploit the social systems of the countries they are living in. And, I think it’s in the interests of the economic development of the whole of Europe to have this free movement between Member States. It helps the economies of all countries involved, including Great Britain.

However, if there are people who are indeed exploiting the social welfare system of a given country – which I understand is a very, very small fraction of a percentage point – then, of course, those countries have the right to stop them. In fact, according to the present EU rules, they can already do that.

But I think that this issue is being exaggerated and exploited because there is a very strong anti-EU party in Britain – the UK Independence Party – and the present government is actually a little bit concerned about their big support and influence. So, they’re tending to exploit peoples’ fears as well. I think the right approach would just be to remain calm and to look at the real picture, because despite the working restrictions being relaxed there has been no massive influx of Bulgarians and Romanian workers coming to Great Britain so far. And those who stoked the fears of the Great British public will hopefully soon see this and should maybe feel ashamed of this.

We also had a comment sent in by Mihail arguing that the invasion of Romanian and Bulgarian workers in Western Europe is a myth. He believes that the Romanians and Bulgarians that wanted to emigrate have already done so, and their negative reputation in the media is undeserved and caused by only a few individuals, whereas the vast majority have integrated into the societies they have emigrated to.

We took this comment to Traian Ungureanu, a Romanian MEP with the  Centre-Right. Did he agree with Mihail?

UngureanuWell, I think that Mikhail is absolutely right. It is a political myth. I think that certain governments among the Western EU Member States are behaving irresponsibly, with an eye to the electoral campaign for the European elections in May.

The truth is that there’s been no Romanian invasion. As for the statistics we have in January, there were 24 Romanians who entered Britain seeking a job since the beginning of the month, so I think this is the kind of “invasion” the British government can easily cope with.

More worrying is the consequences of this sort of attitude towards European values and the EU’s image as a whole. I don’t think we can have a real European spirit and implement European values and standards as long as Eastern European migrants are treated the way they are in different countries of the European Union.

Have either of these MEPs convinced you? If so, you can vote for their parties (or their rivals) in our Debating Europe Vote 2014! If you remain unconvinced, you can always vote for the Eurosceptics or  Conservatives.

Despite predictions of hundreds of thousands of Romanian and Bulgarians pouring into the UK and other Western European states after 1 January 2014, the actual number of immigrants from these countries have been in the low thousands. Has the issue been exaggerated and exploited for political gain? Or should tougher restrictions be placed on EU migrants to stop them abusing benefit systems? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – János Rusiczki

Vote 2014

Voting is closed in our Debating Europe Vote 2014! The results are now in, so come and see what our readers thought!



118 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      If 1 Romanian goes abroad to claim social benefits then your assertion is WRONG.

      Try NOT to be be a BINARY THINKER, try to be a SPECTRAL THINKER – IF you can!

    • avatar
      touchstone

      Really? Why do most Big Issue sellers in London seem to be Romanian then?

  1. avatar
    Ricardo Urjais

    May I present you some of the romanians living in Portugal? And Portugal is not a good country to receive social benefits, so guess why major of them is going to Germany, UK, France…

    • avatar
      Maria

      Well, i am a romanian living in Portugal…so guess what?!! I’m not staying here for your social benefits…And i don’t think only some of the romanians live because you ‘social benefits’, there are many others. Major of romanians go to Germany, UK, France because it’s easier to find a job there than here. Are you seeing the news? How many portuguese are leaving Portugal? What if french people would talk in the same way about portuguese as you talk about romanians…

  2. avatar
    Borislav Valkov

    So does the bulgarians yet there is till discrimantion because it’s not technicaly discrimination when the hatred is towards caucasians.

  3. avatar
    Dany Haas

    There are nationals abusing benefit systems too for the simple reason that if they worked, they would earn less.

  4. avatar
    Stefan Aldimirov

    Borislav, there is a difference between racism and discrimination. The first is contained in the second. Racism is race-based discrimination, as the discrimination itself can be based on everything. Never mind, what is important is that extreme political talking always proves wrong!

  5. avatar
    Tiago Ferrao

    Migration unbalances are solved by balancing social benefits across the members states. It does not make sense to have such differences in terms of labour policies, social benefits, etc…

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Tiago Ferrao
      Communism was tried, it DIED!

  6. avatar
    Tery Ig

    The majority of Bulgarians are moving to the UK to work, I’d say great part of those people are educated individuals who are looking for a better working conditions, since the avagare wage in Bulgaria is one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the EU. As member countries, both Bulgaria and Romania are trying to meet EU standarts and respect their obligations to the EU but apart from obligations I believe we have equal rights to other EU citizens which the UK is trying to suppress in one shape or another, which at the end of the day makes THEM look bad.

    • avatar
      Tarquin Farquhar

      @Terry Ig
      What makes YOU look bad is that you FAIL to understand that the UK is a FAIR [at least compared to most EU countries] country AND since we in the UK did NOT vote to include the likes of developing countries like Bulgaria and Romania [which are HIGHLY corrupted and easily CORRUPTIBLE] in the EU we feel a bit aggrieved!

    • avatar
      Anna

      Tarquin Farquhar, if you had attended proper school, you probably would have learnt that Bulgaria and Romania are not and have never been “developing countries”, contrary to the country of your origin.

    • avatar
      martin hill

      10 years too late.Nobody cares.As long as they can pay somebody £6-7 an hour,big business will take them.People who have lived here all their lives can’t afford to work for that wage.Jack Straw admitted the same point recently.They let them in on purpose.They want them,they need them and believe me they want even more and pay even less.The game is up.

    • avatar
      Paul X

      Well isn’t that kind of them!

      As I said in my comment which is in the header of this thread, one person claiming benefits they are not entitled to is one too many, why do people quote percentages as if there is some sort of acceptable level of tax theft?

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      @Kleoniki Kipurou:

      What you have put up as a link is downright misrepresentation. Here is the official truth in the added link. Read from number 4 onward and you will see immigration is costing us upwards of 95 Billion pounds Stirling as they receive that much more than they contribute. This is an eye opener to the UK public. It may be an eye opener to you as well.

      http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/what-is-the-problem

  7. avatar
    Kleoniki Kipourou

    The reply is not to pose restriction to immigration, but to have closer economic and social policy integration, so that people can enjoy similar wages and benefits all around Europe. As you read on London underground stations “Mind the gap” and I would add “close the gap”. United in diversity!

    • avatar
      Paul X

      The amount of people who quote this is unbelievable, yet not one has any idea how it can be done!
      So do we drop the wages in the richer countries and put millions in poverty or do we raise the wages in the poorer countries in which case who is going to pay for it?….probably taxpayers in the richer countries so either way it’s a win win option for the poor countries and lose lose for the richer ones.(as usual)

      United in diversity! (well as far as handing over our money goes)

    • avatar
      Claudiu

      We’ll said Kleoniki !

  8. avatar
    Oana Black

    As an example, 27,000 Spanish people immigrated to the UK in the year to June 2013, an increase of 10,000 compared to the 12 month period before that. Often we hear that London is France?s sixth biggest city. Yet nobody starts a panic about immigrants from “first class” member states. One cannot help but wonder what kind of attitude transpires from these public campaigns of discrediting some EU members, but not others.
    Last but not least, the comparison with Polish immigration to the UK. I cannot estimate the numbers but there is one thing we should keep in mind:
    In January 2014 eight other countries lifted restrictions: Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Malta, Spain, and The Netherlands
    In 2004, only the UK, Ireland and Sweden opened their doors to Eastern European workers.

  9. avatar
    Oana Black

    As a Romanian, I cannot be but sad and disgusted by the campaign that was set up against us, especially through a few newspapers that constantly lied and disrespected a whole nation, and that, only because of political reasons.

    • avatar
      martin hill

      Nobody I know is against anybody or any country.Most people are against the open door policy.Two different things.Many people dont know or understand anything about Romania,Bulgaria and other Eastern European countries because the English education system is quite basic and some say things they dont always mean.So forgive them.You must agree our open door policy is lunacy especially in the medium to long term.

  10. avatar
    Pedro Pereira

    I would say that anyone who characterizes an entire population of a given country as being criminals is a low educated person. Altough I believe there will be some gangs coming from Romania and Bulgaria I don’t think that’s enough reason to deprive these countries from rights that belong to EU citizens. Funny enough, the people who want to take these rights from these people are the same that argue that EU is not democratic. All countries have criminals and that’s why we pay taxes to the police, but in my opinion the people who work in a country with a higher criminal rate shouldn’t be blamed for those who don’t. I understand that a lot of western countries think of Romania and Bulgaria as gypsies and we have a lot of problem with gypsies (Roma people), that’s a fact, but they also have the same problem seeing that there are a lot more gypsies there. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against gypsies, only with the criminal ones . All this to say that we all have the same rights and discrimination is or should be a crime.

  11. avatar
    rui oliveira

    think that in this field, Europe has a huge responsability, because there is no major equality than receive the emmigrants, that come to a Member State in order to find a better way of life. We all should question, why in some countries, seems to be, an outstanding – in the negative way – kind of floodgates that stop the emmigrants to work and contribute to a better and strong economy? Europe, must have a most strong integration politic, to provide human conditions to all those who have a “dream” by working in the European Union. Before being Europeans, we are all humans.

  12. avatar
    Rolando Van Velden

    from a dutch perspective i can say; it is very hard to be a dutch truck driver right now, people from eastern europe are competing against much lower prices, while costs of living are simply higher in the netherlands…..

  13. avatar
    Richard Osborne

    I feel sorry for the Bulgarians an Romanians, they emigrate for better working conditions, not to live off social welfare. By and large, they have a very great work ethic, much better than the people in the UK. They work harder, better and for less so of course companies are going to hire them. The unions might not like it but that just simple competition

  14. avatar
    Gianuario Cioffi-Aulicino

    Rolando Van Velden this is not immigrants’ fault : it’s Dutch Gouvernement’s fsult, because it doesn’t make enough efforts aganist dishonest entrepeneurs and the dumping of price job

  15. avatar
    Paul X

    It seems to be the latest thing for smug politicians to ridicule those they claim were scaremongering about the “Bulgarian and Romanian invasion of Britain”

    They conveniently forget that we are “once bitten twice shy” when in 2004 we were told that only 15000 Poles and others would come to the UK but it turned out to be over 600000

    • avatar
      Dacus

      So Romanians and Bulgarians should be subject to vilification, abuse, hate campaigns in the media and discriminations in UK just because Britain did not estimate the number of Poles correctly? What kind of twisted logic is that?

  16. avatar
    Christos Mouzeviris

    It was all nonsense of course…. Ireland was among the first to open its doors to them… They are hard working people who pay taxes and contribute to the Irish economy and social security system… In fact they are supporting with their taxes Irish people on Social Welfare payments… Enough with the stigma…

  17. avatar
    Dacus

    Britons’ anti-immigration feelings have been deliberately redirected onto Romanians and Bulgarians. These two countries are perceived as weak, and their population is white and Christian so nobody can be accused of racism if they vilify, persecute and discriminate them. Hate campaigns are perfectly acceptable if they directed to poor Europeans. All the MP signing petitions against Romanians and Bulgarians prove that.
    Every year about 200000 non-EU settled in UK while in terms of benefits, the top 20 individual nationalities comprise claimants from across most ‘world areas’; within Asia and Middle East, Pakistan and India, hold the 1st and 3rd nationalities, with Bangladesh (5th) Iraq (6th) and Iran (8th). Somalia (2nd), Nigeria (11th) and Eritrea (19th) are within Africa region; Poland (7th) is the only previous Accession state to appear in the top 20.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-publishes-overseas-benefit-claimant-research
    By concentrating all the anti-immigration hatred onto Romanians and Bulgarians, the British Establishment hope to placate the enormous amount of immigrants from Asia, Africa and Caribbean and keep the social peace. Romanians and Bulgarians are the scapegoats and the whipping boys of the immigration debacle.

    • avatar
      Borislav Valkov

      Absolutely true!

  18. avatar
    Driton Lajci

    Geographically and somehow politically Kosovo is part of Europe, but Kosovo remained isolated from EU and Kosovo citizens’ ca not move freely to Schengen zone. The EU states should be more generous and see things visionary not only from technical perspective but also from humanitarian, strategic and political reflections.
    Studies have shown that emigrants create a lot of incomes and benefits for country where they live as well, of course immigrants create challenges in the workplace market but developed countries like EU states can absorb this challenge.
    As a matter of fact to be fulfilling historical ideas of scholars, historians, politicians, statesmen for United Europe.
    Driton Lajçi
    Kosovo

    • avatar
      Marcel

      More of these nonsensical studies.

      Studies may show X, but reality shows Y which is that mass eastern European immigration has brought social breakdown in poorer neigbhourhoods, increased crime and increased unemployment. The benefits of this mass immigration exist only in the ‘studies’ written by paid-for ‘researchers’ told to come up with a conclusion the EU wants to see.

      Is it any wonder anti EU (Eurosoviet) resentment is on the rise here? Of course not, when your independence, sovereignty, wealth and social cohesion is being threatened on Brussels command it is perfectly natural.

    • avatar
      Anna

      Marcel, which poorer neighbourhoods suffered as a result of East European migration-can you name any? Probably the riots of 2011 or some no-go areas for white people were/are all the consequences of white Europeans settling there?

    • avatar
      Dacus

      When students are discriminated like the UK did with Romanians and Bulgarians by freezing their grant based on nationality, what result can be expected?

    • avatar
      Limbidis Arian

      And you blame them?
      When you get this racist xenophobic reaction from the brits…

  19. avatar
    Paul X

    @Dacus
    So where exactly in my post did I justify “vilification, abuse & hate campaigns”?

    My comment merely suggests why so many in Britain had a right to be concerned about the potential quantity of immigrants, nothing more

    The only thing twisted is your interpretation of what I have actually written

    • avatar
      Dacus

      I am talking of what I am witnessed myself in the UK.

  20. avatar
    Stelucia

    That Romanians and Bulgarians are into benefit tourism is one the biggest lie Western European media has spread. The truth is different, albeit in the UK. The biggest European recipients of welfare in Britain, according to this DWP statistics are Western EU countries (but Poland is on top): https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/dwp-statistical-foi-releases
    Western Europeans are the one abusing the welfare system in Britain and they are doing it from de decades. Here is the top list extracted from the statistics (in 000):
    Poland 26.54
    Rep_of_Ireland 14.82
    Portugal 12.44
    Slovak_Rep 7.98
    Netherlands 6.82
    France 6.37
    Rep_of_Lithuania 6.36
    Italy 6.29
    Czech_Rep 5.49
    Rep_of_Latvia 4.60
    Germany 4.59
    Spain 4.33
    Hungary 2.25
    Sweden 1.97
    Romania 1.74
    Greece 1.68
    Cyprus 1.47
    Bulgaria 1.08
    Denmark 1.02
    Belgium 0.98
    Rep_of_Estonia 0.58
    Austria 0.50
    Rep_of_Slovenia 0.50
    Finland 0.48
    Malta 0.37
    Luxembourg 0.03

    Romania and Bulgarian are on the bottom half ( ranked 17 and 20) . The accusers (France, Germany, Netherland) are in the top list of welfare benefits in the UK

  21. avatar
    Paul X

    @ Dacus

    No you weren’t…… you directly accused me of having a “twisted logic” because you claimed I was justifying the abuse of Romanians and Bulgarians “just because Britain did not estimate the number of Poles correctly”……your words not mine

    Obviously a case of short memory syndrome…

  22. avatar
    Andrei

    Hi! I work in a school for children with special educational needs and sometimes I take part in the staff recruiting process. Although we have ongoing job vacancies, not many of the British citizens are willing to work for 16 000 Pounds / year. But well qualified migrants from Romania and other EU countries are more than happy to do so. I believe that our students will benefit if a native English teacher or support worker will work alongside them; but if they are not really interested in the challenging jobs, then the migrants will have to step in and, with their weird accent, to provide support for this children. This is how I got a job a few years ago.

  23. avatar
    Ela-Amelia Muntean

    I think statistic figures speak for themselves. Let’s ignore speculations and just rely on facts and figures. Which will prove wrong those who thought Romanians woyld “flood” UK. They didn’t.

    • avatar
      Marcel

      Those that are already in the UK (or in Italy, or in Germany, or in Netherlands) cannot by definition ‘come here’ again.

      The fact remains is, we have too many of you, we want no more, and if needed this ‘free travel and work’ bit must be scrapped.

  24. avatar
    Kevin

    WHOA there people. UKIP did not say there would be a tidal wave of immigration , they said that opening the doors to another group of countries there was a potential for another mass immigration that we saw when the G8 countries were given access to the UK . The fact is the populations of relatively poorer countries now have the freedom to move to richer countries .Many of the more clued up had already made the move due to the self employment rules .There will be a steady migration of people from poorer to richer countries . The infrastructure of the richer countries can not cope, in the UK we have housing shortages , a stretched health service , schools where English is spoken by a minority of children.
    Like most of Europe we have high youth unemployment , the conveyor belt of cheap labour from Europe drives down wages and gives little incentive for companies to train up young people .
    Its not that we don’t like you , its just that you Europeans create more problems than you solve .
    I will be voting UKIP in May

    As we are talking about UKIP would it not have ben a good idea and even fair to ask Mr Farage to give comment ?

    • avatar
      Dacus

      Farage clearly implied that 29 millions would be here. I quote Farage from an interview: “What I am saying is that it is madness to extend this open border policy, the ability to use the education system and the health system, to get 29 million more people in Romania and Bulgaria.” To use the NHS, schools and public services implies that those 29 millions are in UK.
      http://skynews.skypressoffice.co.uk/newstranscripts/murnaghan-50114-interview-nigel-farage-ukip-leader

    • avatar
      Paul X

      He didn’t imply anything of the sort Dacus, his quote in that text is probably incorrect because “to get 29 million more people in Romania and Bulgaria” sounds to me like the people are going to Romania and Bulgaria not leaving

      If you are such a Farage expert you will know he has quoted that figure before but in the context of “we are opening the door to 29 million people” which is an undeniable fact

  25. avatar
    Maria Spirova

    The RO & BG issue has never been real. It was and always has been mythical. It was simply a useful narrative for the UK Conservative government in 2013 for the purposes of distraction. And it was exploited brazenly, ignorantly and with very little finesse for populist gain. I actually think Cameron did himself a disservice – he thought he was going to rip votes off nationalist, Eurosceptical UKIP, but whipping up this moral panic only strengthened their position, because the government was clearly unable to take the UNLAWFUL steps it promised to stop new EU-accession nationals from getting full access to the labour market. Thus, the raving, barely educated nationalists on the island got even more rabidly pro-UKIP and Cameron just ended up looking silly (again). However, thanks to people like him, Theresa May, Osborne, Farage and media like The Daily Mail, an atmosphere of unacceptable prejudice was fostered in British society and those of us living in Blighty feel it every day.

    • avatar
      Marcel

      We in the Netherlands think the same way. Overflooded with welfare seeking and local worker undercutting eastern Europeans. The proverbial excrement is going to hit the proverbial fan sooner or later. We need to limit immigration as soon as possible, and ignore Eurosoviet (EU) threats when doing so. They don’t have any leverage to begin with.

  26. avatar
    Simeon Boryanski Nikiforov

    As everybody(brits) can see now…there is nothing to worry about. Meanwhile ,I can understand their concerns.,because their contry is “invaded” almost by every nation. In Bulgaria we have 80 000 british citizens and if I have to be honest I don’t realy like them.99% of them are living on “benefits Street”

  27. avatar
    Kevin

    Over a quarter (25%) or homeless people in London come from former Eastern European countries. Regardless of what we think about the EU and its open borders whilst we have them just make sure you have somewhere to stay before you leave your homes . Good luck

  28. avatar
    Borimir Totev

    Somebody needs to present the Western media with a larger archive of pictures on Bulgarians and Romanians which they can use in their publications. Of the top of my head: for your next article on A2 nationals (the bureaucratic abbreviation) how about something without horse carts or head scarves.

  29. avatar
    Ana Georgieva

    At list we saw the real face of the British and EU towards us. I can say only thank you for showing us who you really are, hiding behind your politeness and smiles.

  30. avatar
    Ana Georgieva

    At list we saw the real face of the British and EU towards us. I can say only thank you for showing us who you really are, hiding behind your politeness and smiles.

  31. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    Most of us want to leave your union , none of us were give a choice regarding the eu , it`s pointless citizenship or the so called rights….and with over 66 Million crammed into an Island where you cannot stand more than 74.5 Miles from the Sea 70% want proper border comtrolls for Everyone. So, the sooner we leave your awufull union the better.

  32. avatar
    Dani Alexandrov

    Real face of english, double standarts, hate europeans, …. please of u don`t like European Citizens please leave

  33. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    can`t wait to leave . If you want eu citizenship you are welcome to it , i want it like i want another hole in my head i.e. not at all.

  34. avatar
    Marcel

    Kirolov is one of many of these politicians who spout the usual propaganda about how it ‘helps the economy’ and all that and ignores the reality.

    He’s welcome to check in the part of town where I live, overflooded with welfare seekers from eastern Europe. The propaganda doesn’t match reality. This, interestingly, was also a hallmark of the former Iron Curtain governments; oblivious to reality, living in a fantasy world with pink unicorns and skittles.

  35. avatar
    Ana Georgieva

    This is not our union, this is YOUR UNION. You benefit from it for our sake. That’s why you do not go out of it.

  36. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    it is NOT my union !!! and as soon as we vote we WILL leave ….the sooner the better….then we can have proper border controls , get rid if the Offensive bolt on eu citizenshit that is utterly Worthless.

  37. avatar
    Ana Georgieva

    Yes, the far such people like you stay away from us the better. Your are completely braiwashed, fanatic and extremely cruel. You need a psychological help.

  38. avatar
    Ana Georgieva

    I hope for a miracle, those fanatic people will distroy the whole world. Only a miracle can stop their madness.

  39. avatar
    Kevin

    Mihail , It is not the people that we are against , we do not hate you .
    What we hate is the low wage economy that mass immigration from eastern Europe has fuelled . What we hate is the million unemployed kids who cannot get work because employers would rather employ experienced workers on minimum wage . We hate our society changing without our consent , we hate the overcrowding , we hate our political masters for allowing it . We don’t hate you though , its why we allow it to be .

  40. avatar
    Paul X

    Mihail, we don’t hate you, don’t take it so personally

    Yes you have it tough in Bulgaria but that is not our fault is it?

    Try looking from our point of view, the UK is the fourth highest net contributor to the EU budget much of which goes to help the poorer nations in the world

    We are the second highest giver of foreign aid in the world, only the US gives more than us to help the poorer countries in the world

    All this money comes from the UK taxpayers yet despite giving all this money to help people in their own country we are also expected to welcome with open arms anyone who wants to come here for a better life……… is it any wonder the people of the UK feel they are being taken for all they got and get very little gratitude in return

  41. avatar
    Romania Magna_

    I am appalled at Zeus’ racist claims that Romanians are 80% gypsies. Two successive census in Romania have demonstrated that Roma population is less than a million, that statistically represent 4% of the total population. Ethnic Romanians, 87% of the total population, are the real victims of the racist Western Europe. Romania was bullied to change the name of the gypsies in Roma by the Council of Europe but could to oppose the decision this because Romania was not member of the C of E at the time. Nowadays “Romanian” has become the politically correct to use for gypsies and Romania has been turned in the pariah of Europe. Bulgaria was victimized along Romania because Western Europe needs a scapegoat and both countries are perfect whipping boys: their population is white, Christian and poor so the mighty Western Europe cannot be accused of racism is discriminate and persecute Romanians and Bulgarians. Western Europe is using the same colonial techniques it used in Asia and Africa and is nothing short of a predator.

  42. avatar
    sabin

    i am from romania and i want to say that i always liked their culture theier classic techno from 88 to 93 the english language and have never been in the uk but always wanted to go there for 1 or 2 weeks to visit the country and meet some people.but now after i read and seen how the uk citizens are scared of me coming there i feel like i dont want to go in a country where people dont want me to be in.it’s minus 1 threat i guess.

  43. avatar
    ironworker

    Romanians and Bulgarians (maliciously associated by westerners) are NOT coming to claim benefits and “steal” jobs, but you don’t have to believe me, and I really don’t care that you believe it or not. You guys, the westerners, should be happy with indians, pakistanis, afghans, somalis, bangladeshis, mid easterners and so on. They share the same western judeo-protestant-christian culture with you, or not…it really doesn’t mater while you developed “the most advanced” multicultural society. Accommodate them. You are doing just fine without romanians and bulgarians. Enjoy !

  44. avatar
    ironworker

    I saw a lot of south easterners whining on the subject, like “please excuse us for being romanian/bulgarian, why are you hate us so much, etc”. This is not the right way to deal with”ukipers-like westerners”. It should be like: Guess what dude, we don’t like you either, I rather visit Angola than stepping in your sh**y country, I will never buy anything made in …, are gypsies invading your island ? – Deal with it ! and so on and so forth. You got the idea :)

  45. avatar
    Sam Murray

    Mihail all I can say is that we don’t all hate you. I’m sorry for the sheer arrogance of those Britains who think we are the best country in the world, who think that everyone wants to come to our glorious and pleasant land which in truth is quite a nasty place especially with the rife ignorance about. Immigration is the ultimate scapegoat for the failing economy which has been caused by bankers who have got away with it. The UK blames the EU and immigrants because populists who are under-educated around these issues and easily led by cheap propaganda lap it up in droves. As it has been rightly proven there have been no abuses of benefits by immigrants coming from Bulgaria and Romania although I’m sure our UKIP friends will find one person and make out its some massive number of people this of course being at the same time that the rich are tax evading in droves billions of pounds which if got could’ve driven taxes down.

    We have a duty to pay foreign aid in reparations for the evil empire we made, countries shouldn’t be thankful to the fact we messed them up in the first place. We also funded and armed several mass conflicts across the globe displacing refugees through our delightful arms trade taken with Cameron every visit he makes abroad (US also do this).

    To any Romanian or Bulgarian thinking of moving or have moved to work in the UK thank you for contributing to our economy and making our country an exciting and wonderfully diverse place to live in. There is a large number of people who know you contribute and pay your way.

  46. avatar
    ironworker

    Who say that being part of EU it’s a smoothie ? Maybe Romanians and Bulgarians arguably are missing many of the”western virtues” but when comes down to resilience, endurance and patience, both nations are shining stars. The economical reason to leave your country for the “land of opportunity” is a mistake in my opinion. Sweat, blood and tears that you have to pay in the “land of opportunity” it’s just a big waste of time and energy and it’s just pointless, the more you make, the more you spend. It’s all about how much you need to live, the rest it’s just bs.

  47. avatar
    ironworker

    @Zeus

    “I am telling you 80% of the population of Romania is Gipsy”

    You better have a Master Degree in genetics and you done an academic level research at large scale of most individuals living in the country called Romania, otherwise your statement it’s just malicious and prove ignorance.

  48. avatar
    ironworker

    It would be nice if brits can answer to one question. Which german carmaker ruined and I was moderate in my appreciation the correct description should be almost wipe out the Kingdom auto industry ? How many jobs got lost during late ’70’s and early ’80’s because of that ? Back then there was no romanian or bulgarian not even near West Germany border to begin with. The good ‘ol times some might conclude.

  49. avatar
    ironworker

    It’s not about like or dislike each other. Bulgaria and Romania have their own history and national identity, it’s about the brits here, once the owners of 2/3 of the globe got “scarred” by few (and I mean it, there are just few compared to any other ethnic group from UK) poor gypsies. I don’t know if you get the whole picture here. The same and very nation that beat the crap out of Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler and Kaiser Wilhelm the ll, are you kidding me ? I might understand a sort of allergy developed in time against foreigners and gypsies are (the straw that broke camel’s back) too much to bear for middle class english folks, but still, l find the whole thing funny as hell. That’s the point were Nigel Farage steps in and “put things in were they belong”, again is laughable because is biblical size ridiculous, twice.

  50. avatar
    ironworker

    @Miroslav

    I am sympathetic with your depression like symptom, but… Don’t loose hope yet cowboy. Forget statistic and shit, the wheel is spinning. The dynamic of events (Russia-Ukraine-EU relations for ex.) is alive and kikin’, it could takes unexpected turns anytime, keep that in mind. Romania and Bulgaria suffers badly centuries in a row, what Merkel’s neocon politics mean compared to that ? Or Britain’s Farage ? Like I say in my early post, there are not too many countries in Europe with such resilient people as BG and RO. The west despise both countries and that’s no news here, the hate anyone else but themselves, so what ?

    • avatar
      ironworker

      Sorry, is @Miloslav… instead Miroslav, my bad.

  51. avatar
    Kevin

    For all those asking for support from the EU , in what way do you want support . Bearing in mind they have no money of their own they just recycle what the few net contributors give to them in membership fees .

  52. avatar
    ironworker

    They did it already on the second place. If that satisfied you…

  53. avatar
    ironworker

    Stop being such a baby. It is true that RO & BG are behind in economic development terms but the future is even blurry in terms of natural resources distribution and ownership. Bear that in mind that without Russia’s pumping in there is no EU in terms of economic growth. And if I go in detail, there is no german leadership without Putin’s gas. I wonder how’s Visegrad partnership countries will look like after Russia will turn off the nozzle in the middle of winter.

  54. avatar
    ironworker

    Aren’t you on wrong debate somehow ?

  55. avatar
    ironworker

    Miloslav, got your point. Question is, what now ? There are just two options left really. In or Out. You’ll be the judge of that.

    p.s. As a side note, you should have joined instead Visegrad group countries and be one step ahead of any former socialist neighbour plus the german and scandinavian investments flow in, by now Bulgaria should be set an example of how to attract EU Founds and what good investment in the “emerging economies from eastern Europe” you will be. Unfortunately they tight your country name to Romania… You know that all countries are equal but some are more equal than others.

  56. avatar
    ironworker

    And open the gates for turks.

  57. avatar
    ironworker

    A bit harsh of a statement. One of “other reasons” is pure economic. A uneducated and unregulated market in their backyard of almost 30 milion (RO+BG) it’s a must have for western opportunists. How many german junk (2-nd hand) cars are passing in RO and BG as “reliable” transportation ? Not to bring in discussion other expired western “goodies”. Buying german mean saving german jobs and german social benefits after all.

  58. avatar
    ironworker

    @Zeus

    Define poor. You say it like you are at least from Liechtenstein and RO &BG are Haiti and Dominican Republic. The reason of still discussing on the subject are the upcoming EU elections and UKIP, some of hostile to romanians and bulgarians british media and Nigel Farage political incorrectness. Love to highlight hypocrisy. Carry On.

  59. avatar
    ironworker

    Have you ever have the feeling that RO and BG are kept poor in purpose ? How much the west invest in northern part of former communist block compared to south and why ? Romania suffers due the lack of management indeed, but is pretty much autonomous in resources, scientific research and manpower, not to mention the endurance in harsh times. Bulgaria is a bit too addicted to russian gas and influence in the area, otherwise nice hardworking people who does not deserves the bad treatment and the harassment and punishment apply by western countries for no reason. Both countries future look bright though, unless an large asteroid will hit the planet. Just think China.

    • avatar
      ironworker

      @UltrasVG
      My “pathetic” sorry statements are a proof that I could be a good neighbor, and quite a tolerant one regarding the Russia’s “little sister”. I could be a bad one as well. Consider Albania’s faith.

  60. avatar
    Conti

    Firstly, there is no respect shown to the Romanian people by posting that picture. That is a snapshot of people in a rural area, very traditional, going or coming back from church on an important holiday. Secondly, Romanians generally are very well-behaved and are not intending to harm anyone. Going to a different country to work and study is not a crime and along with their knowledge and expertise these people bring their nice and friendly behaviour.
    Talking about problems in each country these go far beyond the harm one immigrant can do and again, the failures of the system should not condemn the people but the leaders. There are many, many people, rightful citizens, who claim social benefits and should not be entitled to them in the UK . Those people are doing so much harm but it is easier to blame the immigrant who might not have any business with claiming anything from the state.
    I hope you people open up your minds and see what is happening around you , meet some of those immigrants and see if they would treat you bad or anything like that. On the contrary, they might be more polite and friendly than anyone you’ve ever met.

  61. avatar
    ironworker

    You say it a bit harsh but I have to agree. The truth is except few military victories against ottomans, Moldavia and Valchia always pays their “semi-independence” in gold, grains, cows, sheep, horses, timber, honney, girls and boys. Pretty daring motherf**ukers those romanians since you brought in discussion Vlad, the Impaler (Not Count Dracula – a fictional character), with a lot of “inspiration” considering the times and the size of their kingdoms. Of course Turkey used to have a very big empire and a huge army and in my opinion never truly intended to wipe out those two little kingdoms because even back then was “business” as usual. You just don’t kill the hen that lays golden eggs. But back to debate, history doesn’t mater in newly european architecture and geopolitics. In the month of May UK should release the data regarding the numbers of romanians and bulgarians that “fled” England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.

  62. avatar
    ironworker

    Where is the “tidal flood” of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants?

    Right. Where is it ?

  63. avatar
    ironworker

    Nigel Farage ain’t no Mosley, he is just a bad joke, a populist clown. The latest figures revealed by the The Office for National Statistics (ONS) on May 14th show it clearly that after 01/01/2014 when work restriction were lifted, the numbers of “migrants” from RO and BG actually dropped. Of course that UKIP rhetoric start immediately to twist the truth doing speculative math wrongly assuming POTENTIAL NUMBERS over decades to come and denying the fact that they used words like “flood” or “huge waves” or ” millions”. In my opinion is was a lame attempt, but maybe it’s just me.
    This debate should be closed by moderators there is nothing left on this subject to talk about.

  64. avatar
    ironworker

    Romania and Bulgaria didn’t have enough lobby as balts, hungarians, czechs and poles overall. These days before EU Parliamentary elections, there’s a lot of sparkles in British media over Nigel Farage alleged racism. I wouldn’t define Farage as a pure racist, more a populist who build his political career on regular people fears and used the imperfections of democratic system and “friendly” media in his advantage. Oh well, Brits are still welcome in Romania. No offence taken.

  65. avatar
    Kaloyan Kostadinov

    UK, wake up! Open your racist minds! It is not 19 centry, its 21 centry! Obviously, the immigrants are well educated and are ready to contribute to the UK economy. Bulgarans are well educated and education is VERY, VERY impontant in Bulgaria. It is very impontant because bulgarians know that there is NO future in Bulgaria, despite the EU is doing its best to help Bulgaria and Romania recover from 50 years of communism. So, bulgaria,s finest and most educated go to UK, Germany, USA, etc. and work, pay taxes and contribute for the developement of the country they live in, not for Bulgaria or Romania. And on the top of it all, the brits are NOT HAPPY? I knew that the brits are a bit racist, but i tought that is was a stereotype… Hating the ones that contribute for your own good (Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants) is stupid and idiotic. Following, people who are racist towards ANY immigrants are stupids and idiots. Plus, immigrants who immigrate in order to use the country,s social benefits usually end up living under some bridge like hobos. Example: USA. Plus, they are a really rare occasion. And the idea that its bad thing that the immigrant is going to take the job, rather some local, is just idiotic.

    • avatar
      Kevin

      So what does Bulgaria do when all its educated people have left ?

  66. avatar
    Billy Hardcastle

    If you’re not coming here to put something in don’t expect to take anything out.

  67. avatar
    Donna

    There is a confusion here. People who came here just for stealing and doing other crimes came from a long time and they will come further. In 2014 started to come people who are seeking for work. Some who lives by crime and not by work just doesn’t need to wait an open labor market.. We live here for years and we pay taxes, so even I am a Romanian, I don’t want to help criminals to live better. And here we are, another problem: Looks like discrimination! I have another problem too: girls who give up schools and get children, than they are entitled to social help. British girls. I don’t like the idea that I have to contribute with my taxes to encourage them to do so. Also: Britain has a lot of young people that have no skills at all. They are very upset that Romanians (as they know so from media) come to take “their” jobs. There is not such a think, a job with a name on it. As a business man, I have the right to employ a skilled person, no mater color, ethnicity, or sex orientation.

  68. avatar
    Jack adams

    the cities of England are flooded with foreigners. In Newcastle the streets are now full of Africans with large families. geordie folk are very angry and worried about who these people are and why they are here. I would like to know who brought them here?

  69. avatar
    Kadi

    look at the criminality in all Europe the most are roumanien and boulgarian so the most are from East of Europe im realy shocked why they accept them to be a part of Europe they need 50 years of Education to be an Europeen is a way of THINKING AND BEHAVING NOT ONLY passepot look the way of living of English is not any more the same they lost the individuality i feel so sorry i use to live in England before 2004 it was Haven no not any more sorry England

    • avatar
      DG

      Well, Kadi, imfortunately there is a propaganda against the Romanians and it is not true that they changed UK, they are not so many. Update your knowledge on the subject. In the mean time, visit a town like Bradford- Leeds, see the streets and the people and tell me how many British people you met and how they get along in the good British way of life…

  70. avatar
    Indian

    Don’t compare Indians with other economic immigrants from elsewhere, we are the third largest contributors of FDI to UK. Indian owned companies created hundred thousands of jobs for true “moss” of UK & not some rolling stone.

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    cheap jordan shoes

    As a power seller, we have to eliminate unnecessary costs and the world with factories, distributors and warehouses offer the lowest prices to customers long-lasting relationships, we are committed to providing high quality goods less. We only provide the highest quality products, allowing customers to shop with confidence.

  72. avatar
    Ethelred

    There’s over half a million here now you idiots.. Farage was bang on, how could you be so stupid?

  73. avatar
    Corpely.com

    Is Britain on the verge of another mass-migration, as with the Poles? Behind the rhetoric on Romanians and Bulgarians set to flood the country, sucking up jobs and benefits, the actual expected impact of the lifted restrictions has gone unspoken.

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