german-flagOn Sunday, Chancellor Angela Merkel sparred with her social democratic rival, SPD candidate Peer Steinbrück, in the only live television debate ahead of Germany’s federal elections on 22 September. Opinion polls suggest, bizarrely, that Angela Merkel’s necklace was the clear winner of the debate (and it now has its own Twitter account with over 8000 followers). Fetching jewelry aside, however, Merkel’s Christian Democrats remain ahead of the Social Democrats in the polls. Germany’s economy is growing, unemployment is low (Germany has the lowest youth unemployment rate in Europe) and debt is declining, putting Merkel in a strong position ahead of the elections.

So, would Europe be in a better position if other countries copied Germany’s economic choices? A German liberal MEP, Alexander Graf Lambsdorff, recently argued that Germany should not shy away from economic leadership of the EU. He explained that this didn’t mean that “the rest of Europe is expected to start drinking beer and eating sausages” but rather that “low youth unemployment, competitiveness in world markets, economic growth, rising salaries and increased domestic demand are a German reality [and] if Europe were to become a little more German in this regard, all would benefit, and Germany should not be ashamed to say so”.

Some of our commenters certainly seem to agree. Vicente from Italy, for example, sent us in a comment arguing that:

citizen_icon_180x180They told us [that] Europe will be a service economy. Germany did not dismantle their industry. Compare now Germany with the other ‘service economies’. Compare all Southern countries and UK debt with Germany. I think now the EU Commission is realizing the mistake and already many economists are saying that we need to increase our customs tariffs and re-industrialize.

We took Vicente’s comment to Franck Proust, a French MEP with the centre-right  Centre-Right group in the European Parliament. Should Europe be trying to re-industrialise its economies and taking a more protectionist approach to global trade?
Proust seemed to agree with Vicente on both counts: Europe should be making a concerted effort to re-industrialise and he also suggested that tougher environmental taxes might be levied on imports coming into the EU (though non-tariff barriers, including more restrictive consumer and environmental standards, have largely replaced tariffs as an instrument of protectionism in the wake of WTO rules).

On the other hand, the “German economic model” is based less on global protectionism and more on strong co-operation between business, government and education, and on depressed wages that mean many German workers feel they have not experienced enough of the benefits of a growing economy. We also took Vicente’s comment to Herbert Reul from Germany, another MEP with the EPP group, who thought that increased protectionism would be a mistake (though he agreed with Vicente about the need to re-industrialise).

reul_herbertI think he’s partly right. He’s right about re-industrializing our economies. The big mistake for some member-states, such as Great Britain, was to say that services are everything, and that financial services are best. No, we need also industry-based production; we need both services and industry to have a functioning economy. This is the real answer for the future: we need to ensure the regulatory burden does not fall disproportionately on industry-based production. We need to ask if legislation at both the European and the national level helps industry or if it is a problem for the future. If we have too much legislation, for example on the environment, then it can harm that production.

On the question of tariffs, however, I think Vicente is wrong. Trying to stop imports is not the answer. The answer is to be better. We must do much more in research, be better in production, be quicker in production. We need to find ways, through automation, for example, to be better than others.

Vote 2014

Voting is closed in our Debating Europe Vote 2014! The results are now in, so come and see what our readers thought!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – fdecomite

48 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think? Should EU countries move away from service-based economies and try to re-industrialise? Could Germany's economy be a model for the rest of Europe? And would the European economy benefit from tougher protectionism to help boost its exports? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we'll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.

  1. avatar
    L Luís Rodrigues

    It is all a matter of productivity, not of sheer working hours. You cannot use a magic wand and ‘poof’, you’re like Germany. Nothing of the kind…

  2. avatar
    Christos Mouzeviris

    Yeah, but would the Germans actually like that? To become like them we will have to become more industrialized, thus become exporting economies… Thus more competition for them.. Can we all be little Germanies? Perhaps the solution is the diversification of the European economy collectively..

  3. avatar
    L Luís Rodrigues

    Less government spending, more freedom, more laissez faire, free flowing federation, so that our interests may bind us. Not just when it suits the powerhouses of the Union. ;)

    • avatar

      True. More laissez faire in the economy

  4. avatar
    David Eaton

    No that is pretty much an impossibly from smaller EU states a significant part of Germany wealth indirectly comes from the population and geographical size making it easier to avail of the scale of economy factor where goods and services become cheaper the larger the size of the economy such things would be impossible in a EU state like Ireland who is tiny in compared to Germany

  5. avatar
    Andries Vienne

    Germany has succeeded in achieving unheard growth on paper, but has sacrificed a lot to get there. Workers get less hours per week (or have to work the same amount for less wages), full time jobs get divided into mini-jobs that can’t even pay for rent and heating, working conditions have worsened and minimum wages lowered or cut entirely. For Merkel to be able to boast about her recovery model, she makes her own people suffer – that’s not something to be proud about, let alone copy throughout the EU.

  6. avatar
    Paul X

    I do not see how tougher protectism will boost exports? If you are only talking about exports within the EU then maybe, but if you place tariffs on goods from outside the EU then the external countries will do the same and exports will suffer. I keep hearing thet the EU wants to be a global player quite how such an inward looking strategy fits with that ideal I do not know

  7. avatar
    Nuno Magalhães Pequito

    Germany is what it is not only because of germans but because of the Marshall plan and because of the Euro zone who works at low costs for germany and buys german’s goods

  8. avatar
    Lyubomir Spasov

    We are more interconnected and interdependent than ever. Looking to the future, the “business as usual” scenario simply will not work. Transition from our current resource intensive growth model to a resource efficient growth model, to a circular economy, is absolutely necessary. These pressures on natural resources will be the most significant limiting factor on our ability to grow and provide higher living standards, also within the European Union. The European economy is built on decades of resource intensive growth. Also, resources and energy (World Energy Outlook: International Energy Agency) are getting more expensive. Already today resources are the dominating factor in the cost structure. We import most of our material resources. The real innovation challenge for companies is to shift innovation potential from labor to resource productivity. We need change. We need to rethink the way we function, the way we produce and consume. The process of economic recovery cannot only be about stimulating growth, it has to be about building the basis for a different quality of growth in order to ensure a prosperous, inclusive and sustainable future. So, yes, I believe we need to re-industrialize our economies. The only way forward is a sustainable economy.

  9. avatar
    Nuno Magalhães Pequito

    …and because their post-war debt was forgiven by countries that today are arrassed by Mr. schauble and Mrs. merkel (not by germans)

  10. avatar
    Matthew Andrews

    Europe’s economy should be more like Germany’s, but I’m afraid that is not possible for the southern countries due to the very monetary construction of the EU. That construction has as a result, Germany to make profit from the crisis of the member states of the periphery and thus be able to have a stable and blooming economy. In order for this constructural error to be corrected. The monetary union has to change radicaly. Economical Union must preced monetary Union. But, if that is not attractive to Ms Merkel and the interests she represents unfortunatelly it is never going to happen.

    • avatar
      AKMA Khan

      I agree! If Europe become “United Europe” then success of German/British/French/Finish/Spanish/Italian… companies would be success of “United Europe” companies and we all feel proud for that! EU enlargement should continue to Turkey and Israel/Palestine(Gaza, West Bank) to introduce peace and stop war!

  11. avatar
    Eric David Bosne

    It also doesnt have a minimum wage and job are very insecure. This can only work if there is a strong social backup.

  12. avatar
    Panos Mentesidis

    The EU should become a Union of the people not a union of lobbyists and bankers…and it is idiotic to say that all european economies should become like Germany’s. Different countries have different strengths. European countries should learn from one another and help each other not blame the poor countries…if we all become like Germany then our debt should be deleted just like Germany’s in 1947 and our politicians should become racist ignorant puppets who do not give a f*** about people and care only for financial figures. If all European countries become like Germany then there is no point in having a European Union, we should all just blame the poorest countries and let people die on the street while we pretend that we are the strongest. Germany is not an example! its a bouble that will burst right after the southern European economies completely collapse in about 2 to 5 years according to my calculation. Neoliberalism is ethically, numerically, politically and totally wrong, the pain, suffering and insecurity that it brought to the people of Greece is psycologically exhasting and physically painful…I don’t understand how the rest of Europe puts up with it…but if the Goverment in Greece continues to try to make our economy Neo-liberal like Germany’s then the riots of the previous years in Greece will look like a pic-nic compare to what is going to happen. Merkel will have to deal with a revolution…and that should be very good for her popularity and her effort to Neo-liberalise the EU.

  13. avatar
    Joana Andreia

    I can think of so many hilarious answers that I prefer not to answer at all! Otherwise this thread would compete with 9gag. :p

  14. avatar
    Stefanescu Dan

    MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russian radar detected the launch of two ballistic “objects” towards the eastern Mediterranean from the central part of the sea on Tuesday, Russian news agencies quoted the Defence Ministry as saying. Interfax news agency quoted a ministry spokesman as saying the launch was detected at 10:16 am Moscow time (0616 GMT) by an early warning radar station at Armavir, near the Black Sea, which is designed to detect missiles from Europe and Iran. The agencies did not say who had carried out the launch and whether any impact had been detected. The ministry declined comment to Reuters. Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu had informed President Vladimir Putin of the launch. “The trajectory of these objects goes from the central part of the Mediterranean Sea toward the eastern part of the Mediterranean coast,” Interfax quoted the spokesman as saying. A ministry official had earlier criticised the United States for deploying warships in the Mediterranean close to Syria.

  15. avatar
    Τεπενδρής Πίπης

    you mean like exploiting slaves with no minimum wage like german?
    and bringig slaves from asia with nean no wage to assemble cars?

    nope… i ll buy a car assembled by free people

  16. avatar
    Sunshine Rose

    Are you stupid in Debating Europe or what? Germanys economy is good because they export more to other countries and earn money on that, while importing less from the same countries who are not earning the same equal money but loosing income because of Germany. Find a solution to use the same model? (Kind of involves Germany a lot, because Germany would have to import MUCH MORE from other countries than, if we want to use German model.)

    • avatar

      Anybody forcing anyone to by German cars? Anybody preventing anyone from buying Italian/French/English(are there any left?) cars?

    • avatar
      Debating Europe

      At the risk of being accused of further stupidity, we would argue that the “German model” is perhaps a tad more complex than simply “export more than you import.” Those are the results, not the method. Arguably, Germany has achieved its results through strong co-operation between business, education and government (for example, via the “Duale Ausbildung”), but also through agreements between organised labour and employers that wages should be kept low.

  17. avatar

    Economies cannot be copied, because each one is embedded in a certain culture and society. Not even institutions can be transfered with the same effect as in country of origin. The failing of EU policies is the best example for this (e.g. compare corruption between member states longitudinally; what effect has EU rule of law?).
    Germany has traditionally a very disciplined and skilled work force which is also willing to sacrifice in case the countries leadership suggests it as necessary for the common good.
    There is still a core of German families which socialize children for a future in this type of productive work force but with the EU the institutional support, which is also important for this, is gradually breaking away. The effects of immigration from culturally very diverse societies have still to be seen. But it is rather likely that it will weaken Germany’s productivity in the medium and long run.

    Although the EU is providing Germany (as to all members) with a large single market and a common currency, the country in the long run would probbaly do better without this frame, because outside the EU Germany’s economy would get under a stronger competitive pressure, for example, by rising exchange rates (in case of Northern €uro, or own currency), and noteworthy competitive pressure is very important for Germany to produce excellence.

    The current situation in the EU is rather demotivating for Germans and harming the country’s potentials.

    If the EU continues to follow a track where the German tax payer is simply considerd as the cash cow for financing consumption, infrastructure investments or social security in less productive member states, the German taxpayer will sooner or later revolt and force its political establishment back on a more independent path, maybe following the UK outside the EU.

  18. avatar
    Teodoro Caloroso

    I welcome everyone who thinks life in Germany is not good enough to try living in Bulgaria earning an average bulgarian salary! 99,99% of you will run away crying for your moms…

  19. avatar
    Christos Mouzeviris

    May we get Germany’s salaries as well please?

  20. avatar
    Spyros Tsakos

    I think the question is more like “can be the EU countries re-industrilized?”.The answer is, in my opinion, not all of them in a full scale even if they wanted to because either they lack the raw materials that industries want or they lack the knowhow(experience), even current economic factors discourage the development of industries in some EU countries. Take Greece for example, its soil is poor in precious metals and other raw materials(with exception maybe for oil and renewable energy) for local or externall industries to be fully benefited from them and certainly there is not enough knowhow(or better experience) about some industries, for example building a nuclear factory is both from social and economic aspects undesirable in Greece. The biggest hardcore industries(that are active in significant exports) are cement, steel and food production(and in the future some hope oil, natural gas and renewable energy) but even they were hit hard even before the crisis due to governmental regulations, deteriorating economic scales, mismanagement issues and competition. More attention has tourism and shipping which contribute more to the national GDP. Even if some other industries were to be localy created or come from aboard like assembly-line, renewable energy, oil-natural gas or even shipping will have to face high taxes and an idiotic bureaucracy. Finally it is possible that some industries may not enjoy a good relation with others in some EU countries, for instance in Greece future oil-natural gas production may cause potential conflict with the country’s “heavy industry” tourism.

  21. avatar
    Diogo Miranda

    Every country or region of Europe can do a little better to help themselves, good management is not a patent of Germany. You can plan your country for the next 100 years, not the next elections, you can try not to depend on only a few buyers, or only a few suppliers, or only this energy source, you can be serious about your decisions, fight corruption, punish bad examples, encourage good ones, etc etc etc.
    And yes, you can be 100% sure of 2 things:
    1- envy will take you nowhere.
    2- if you keep on waiting for someone to come and fix your problems for you, they will only get worse.

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      I agree with Michalis Pillos. Yes, and I will put this up here again in case thoese who haven’t seen it would like to.

      Try and find it I have it somewhere.

      They have cut the full 50 minute programme. to this clip Now why would that be. Too much good news about the German lifestyle for the ordinary man. This German way of life used to be like this in the UK. But, greedy politicians have taken up the life of the USA, which has led to starvation and slavery for the poor ninby’s wh, like the UK people have put up with what we have now.

  22. avatar
    catherine benning

    For anyone who may be interested, this here below are parts of a full documentary called ‘Make Me a German.’ They are out of sync as they have removed the full thing and I had to get them from different pages. But it remains enlightening. The Germans are so good at organization.

    However, as I wrote in a previous post, it was this way in the UK in the 60’s and 70’s. Margaret Thatcher following her ideal man, Ronnie Reagan, took that system completely apart. And left us with the downfall of what our civilization has become. A ruin of a great way to work and live.

    Yes, make me a German! And this is the result of a lot more political astuteness than simply keeping down the wages. It is a form of capitalist collectivism. Which we would all do well to learn from. Each level in the economy is a sensible give and take on the part of the nation as a whole.

    I don’t like the idea of being forced to keep the children quiet on a Sunday, though. A bit too stasi-ish for my taste. But I like the lifestyle and the expectation of community spirit for the average guy. .

  23. avatar
    Sebastian Strobl

    otoh, germany has very low birth rates and will face serious demographic issues. political participation is even more declining. germany has bought itself economic growth with the “agenda 2010”. but the last years jobs were created and companies invested. minimum wage is a big issue in the upcoming elections, but so far wokers unions and companies work out local labour agreements. being a large, economically diverse country, this is a far more tailored approach than a governmental minimum wage. to answer the question: partly yes, partly no. the german education (duale ausbildung, as stated above) is a good example countries can learn from. countries also have to cut spendings, but not necessarily the way germany has done in the past. germany can draw on a variety of industrial companies, which is not the case in all european countries. therefore, other european countries have to support start ups and small business way more.

  24. avatar

    German economy is great and a model of success for sure. It can’t be the model of Europe though, each country needs to find its strength based on workforce, culture, geography and its own starting point. If we went to the extreme and all started producing top quality cars we’d all lose out!
    Manufacturing can only keep working if you can show that your country (region) is the only one that can produce the goods to the required standard! Many do this to some degree, Germany perhaps does this best! Europe is still one of the strongest in services though and should continue to be developed and grown! This does however leave it very exposed to world forces.
    Interesting to note though, Germany’s wage inflation was one of the lowest in the Eurozone, despite its strong growth. Maybe we need to look at how to increase real growth that justifies the higher wages rather than focus on the headline figures?

  25. avatar
    Sunshine Rose

    to Debating Europe:
    If any other country would look on just lower salaries as Germany did, than you would get several more europen countries getting more socialy poor and even more apathy in Europe (so, here the one should ask oneself if the one is a friend or enemy of Europe, wanting those conditions?). The point about all europe is housing/ rent expences (plus expencive heating bills and electricity bills) which can almost never be compared with ither continents or poor EU countries. If other richer countries follow Germany in that way by just getting lower salaries because of agreement with unions and the housing expences are still higher in those countries than they are high in Germany or poor european countries…than…??? I just say: WATCH OUT what you recommend, because Europe could get even bigger problem than. I know that a goal is to make european countries more equal (in compettition with China willage standard!), but as the differences are so high now in living standard between european countries- it would just make it much worse for richer countries and everybody (extra problem if everybody is equal in poor situation and nobody can support anybody with offered job or financially- problem coming later, “communism” have never worked as well as capitalism, and we are having a mixture of those two now). Even if Germany is understood as one rich country- german people are “so happy” with situation in Germany now that they are escaping to nordic countries.

    to EU: Fix living costs, if you want that salaries can folow down: than the problem asks for fixing living expences in advance, before salaries go down (and not another way around)… And FIX CORRUPTION AND LOBBY WORK IN EUROPE, dont start with punishing people, punish big “guys” first. If a proper reform, housing expences could go directly to TAX authority and not both to private owned banks with high interest and tax authorities. I have heard that Singapore (nr one country with no debt internationaly) is having a much better government controlled bank/finance, and the “president” can not do anything with those savings unless people go voting to give president permission. (anybody who knows if that is true might correct me)- a system controlled by the people and thats why it works. Not like this corrupted EU.

    Or, otherwise: Make a european system, where all jobs have the same hour salary and therefore young people choose education and job on a personal potential or love for that job, and not because of greed for money or status as it is today (in advance, before that, you have to invest in kindergardens and schools and family time, and give to everybody in EU a basic income)- that means that a doctor or politician or cleaning lady or teacher are getting the same hour paying- and those who want to get richer can work more hours or start a private company with government support. In that way those who are richer could also support those who are more poor, if everybody gets the same hour salary no matter of proffession (welcome to Socialist- Comunist – EU, where greed is not allowed).

    (sorry for not so good english, read slowly or ask).

  26. avatar
    Paul X

    Why do people like Herbert Reul continue to critisise the UK for it being heavily reliant on service and banking?

    UK Industry killed itself in the 70’s by being completely uncompetitive on the global market, mainly due to a militant union element creating unreasonable demands and making British industry so unreliable no one would risk importing from them

    But the UK’ s loss has been to the benefit of other EU members such as Germany who have filled the void, they now have the industry so all we have is the banks. If these German industrial companies started relocating to the UK then we maybe we could reduce our reliance on the service sector, but I don’t see that happening any time soon

  27. avatar
    Sunshine Rose

    WHO is it that wants more “WORKING POOR CITIZENS” in all Europe, as well as USA and Germany has???

    Citizens in Germany have to have 2 jobs in one day- to get enough money to live for and pay the bills. The same in USA. What is it so good about Germany?

  28. avatar
    Ignacio Paredero Huerta

    A German Europe is a mistake.
    Europe should be united in diversity, not unified under the german blueprints and schedules. There is a fundamentally wrong assumption on this and is a traditional german one: they tend to think that if something has worked (for them, in the past) it should work for all every time. If all the countries in Europe tries to be an export-led economies ¿Who will buy all these goods? ¿What use would be the economic unified market? ¿How could so different and different economy based countries product the same in the same way? Europe is not a collection of countries who have to solve their problems: Either we solve them together taking into account our differences or we fall together. Europe is more than the sum of its diverse parts and thats why Germany assume the problems are the fault of the countries who are suffering it, while, in fact, the problem is the design of the whole, of Europe, of the macroeconomic institutions, specially the BCE and the Euro.

    • avatar
      catherine benning

      So, if as you feel Germany cannot be emulated throughout the rest of Europe and mean the rest of Europe cannot perform as well, why do they look to Germany to support them through their economic downturn? What that tells us is that Europe an states intend to feed off the German economy knowing full well they cannot participate as full progressive participating economies.

      What is the point in a Europe full of blood suckers who have no intention of pulling their weight, only, as in the case of the UK, to be used as a welfare outlet for the European underclass.

      Please, you are not making sense. A mature Europe should not be looking for a Mama and Papa state to hold them up.

    • avatar
      Ignacio Paredero

      The German success nowadays is heavily linked to the Euro and the European Union. This is not “Germany has made rigth their work”: Germany is a part of Europe who benefits (the most) of a monetary and economic infrastructure which allows it to export their goods to the rest of Europe (their main market) without competitivity problems due to monetary exchange.

      The European Union is not a group of countries, is an Union. First, a monetary union. We gain and loose a lot, but it is not really feasible to have a union-non union, union only for those things that benefits UK (market) or Germany (monetary union) but not for transferences an solidarity. Solidarity is needed BECAUSE those tools (markets and monetary union) are exacerbating the differences between countries and impoverishing people.

      When Germany and France decided not to respect the stability pact, there was no problem. When they were in problems, all european countries were flexible. The same during the reunification of Germany: inflation was needed and that was what Germany got. Now, the sudden stop of financial transferences through the (should we have to point it) PRIVATE banks, has wreaked chaos in the economies of the souther countries. The system which allowed the Souther countries to be indebted to pay for the exports of Germany, has broke suddenly.

      ¿Do you really think the problem is that we are profligate, we spend badly and so on? That is the problem? I think it is not: Spain and Ireland had the LOWES debt/GDP ratio of all the EU before the crisis. That was not the problem. I think the problem is a bad designed euro who needs TRANSFERENCES. No coin could work if the different regions has so high differences and, to make matters worse, one part has more political power to diminish the problems for them and be irrationally strict when the problems are from those they percibe as “profligate” or lazy.

      I dont want Papa o Mama state. I want solidarity and equality, because they are preconditions of a good an stable economy. I want a social europe with a strong economy. And i want that people understand that this is a group adventure, not a free raider one. If Germany (or UK) doesn’t understand this, maybe they should consider getting out of the euro (or the EU) or, in the end, the EU would unravel.

      PD: UK ¿used as a welfare outlet? Do you know what it is said here in Spain about “sanitary tourism from UK”? It is the same everywhere: egotism :(

  29. avatar
    Emmanuel Rodary

    Should Europe’s economy be more like Germany’s ?
    First we need to know what it means…
    – It means all European countries should export more to their neighbours than import from them.
    Before answering the question about if we should do that or not, I have an additional question : How is it possible that Germany exports more than it imports from… let’s say Italy while at the same time Italy exports more than it imports from Germany ?
    Obviously there is a problem of logic… and the answer to the initial question is : We can’t care of whether Europe’s economy should be like German’s or not : It can’t !
    – Being “more like German’s economy” means also having very few children so that childhood is not something that have a huge cost… how is it possible to get the same status in France or Ireland ?
    Children proportion in the population are 55% and 60% in those 2 countries than in Germany.
    If France and Ireland spend as few money than Germany for childhood, education… it means the amount spent per children will be not enough to have equivalent social care or education for children.
    If those 2 countries give as much per children than in Germany… they have to increase their public expanses !

    In fact… it’s irrealistic to imagine the same answer will give the same result to 2 different problems.
    If countries apply solutions to increase their consumption while they have too much or they increase production when the actual production have no market, this is nonsense !
    There are not everywhere the same problems, there should not be only one economic policy to solve several economic problems which are often opposite.

    • avatar
      Ignacio Paredero

      “it’s irrealistic to imagine the same answer will give the same result to 2 different problems.”

      And that resumes all.

      Well, that, and one problem: EU is not a collection of countries who should be good or bad. It is a Union, there are structural dynamics (the relations between those countries) that have to be well designed so there is an equal and fair distribution of economy and political power. If we have “good” countries (IE, more “german” countries) but we have poor designed rules of the whole system (of the UE) the UE will fail for sure. If some country gets from those rules more richness than the rest and more political power than the rest, even if the rest of the countries “behave well” (and it is not possible) it would be of no use.

  30. avatar
    Lawrence Buntz

    not if they actually dont treatment about our survival which they dont it may be bulls**t but when it does transpire it might likely be somthing such as this . NO warning in any respect, thats why many of the key governments on the world happen to be building underground bunkers which possibly want get the job done anyway.

  31. avatar

    Germans should learn to live like Spaniards and Spaniards should learn to work like Germans and they both probably need to learn to be as self centered egoists as the English are or they always end up with the short end of the stick.

    • avatar
      Swat Cats

      They will increase the minimum wage in Germany from 8.5 Euros per hour to 11.6 Euros per hour this year in 2016..

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