bulgarian-romanian-immigration

When Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007, citizens from both countries gained the right to travel across the Union without a visa. However, temporary restrictions on Bulgarian and Romanian workers were instituted in nine EU member states (including France, Germany and the UK) requiring work permits, setting quotas in some sectors and blocking access to social security schemes. In the countries that implemented these restrictions, there is now mounting pressure to try and extend them beyond their expiry date of 1 January 2014.

As a result, many Bulgarians and Romanians feel they are being unfairly scapegoated by anti-immigration parties in the older EU member states. Iulian from Romania, for example, wrote in to say:

In Romania, there are many foreigners (from Germany, Austria, Holland, UK, Italy) who have small businesses in agriculture and small industry. But Romanians may not work in other countries. Is this discrimination, or fear of harder workers?

We took Iulian’s comment to Mariana Câmpeanu, the Romanian Minister of Labor, for her to respond:

campeanu-speaksIulian has raised a very important and sensitive problem for Romanian workers. And, he must be frustrated because restrictions on the European labour market in some member states have been targeted against him. Personally, I believe that these restrictions have harmed not only the Romanian workers, but also the workers from the countries which imposed the restrictions.

Romanian workers that really wanted to work in an EU member state, like the UK, have already gone to that country, regardless of the restrictions, and there they worked in the black market economy. So, instead of contributing with taxes and contributions to the social security system, they didn’t pay the social security taxes. But at the same time they received a salary lower than the normal salary of a person employed in the same job. And, at some point, maybe they have been obliged to access the social benefit system in that country without contributing. So, I firmly believe that lifting the restrictions on the free movement of workers beginning from the 1st of January 2014 will only bring benefits, not just for Romanian and Bulgarian workers, but also for the economies of all the countries involved.

Although the temporary restrictions are unlikely to remain in place, there has been a successful campaign to block Bulgarian and Romanian access to the borderless Schengen zone, citing poor progress on anti-corruption in the two countries. As both Bulgaria and Romania already have visa-free access to the rest of the EU, the main benefit of Schengen membership would be the removal of borders and passport checks.

On this topic, Silviu left us the following comment:

When the EU needed a consumer market of 27 million people it was OK to accept Romanians and Bulgarians. But when talking about access to the labour market… hmmm, we don’t need you as competitors for the low-value work in agriculture, construction and old-aged care. It’s the same with the Schengen matter.

In our recent head-to-head video debate in the European Parliament, we had the chance to put this comment to Sergei Stanishev, former Prime Minister of Bulgaria and current leader of the Bulgarian Socialist Party. His response was very simple: “Schengen membership has very clear criteria, and they have been fulfilled by Bulgaria and Romania. And that’s it.

We also took Silviu’s comment to Cecilia Malmström, European Commissioner for Home Affairs, to see how she would respond:

Do you like what Malmström had to say? As well as being an EU Commissioner, she’s also a politician with the Swedish Liberal People’s Party, part of the  Liberal Democrats group in the European Parliament. If you support them, then make sure you vote for them  in our Debating Europe Vote 2014!

Finally, we asked for a reaction to Iulian’s comment from Juan Fernando López Aguilar, an MEP with the  Social Democrats group in the European Parliament, and Chair of the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs:

Agree with what López Aguilar had to say? Then support him by voting for the S&D  in our Debating Europe Vote 2014!

What do YOU think? Should temporary restrictions on Romanian and Bulgarian workers be extended? Should Schengen membership be denied until anti-corruption measures have been strengthened in both countries? Or is this discrimination against EU members completely unfair? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Danny Howard

Vote 2014

Voting is closed in our Debating Europe Vote 2014! The results are now in, so come and see what our readers thought!



358 comments Post a commentcomment


  1. avatar
    Hilmi Selçuk İpek

    No human should be discrimanted. We live on earth and its all ours. Espacially not in the EU what should play as a role model.

  2. avatar
    Mila Damjanoska

    What makes a qualified Bulgarian/Romanian worker different from another qualified worker who holds a citizenship from Western Europe for example?! I think there’s a great deal of discrimination tucked behind those restrictions for nationals of those 2 countries.

    • avatar
      P M B

      Romania and Bulgaria should not have been allowed to join the EU as they didn’t reach the criteria set and are not likely for years to come. Western EU members don’t need to be swamped by a mass of Roma gypsies who have nothing to give to the uK

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Bulgarians and Romanians don’t need to move to Western Europe either, it’s not like they will live a normal life there, the only place they can live a normal life is and earn a normal wage to cover the cost of living is Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    • avatar
      Elena

      DISCRIMINATION!!!!!No human being should feel that!!!!!!

  3. avatar
    Gabriela Marin

    Why Romania was accepted as part of Eu if they keep restrictions for years and want to extend even more? Or is just for keeping as a market for all sheety products and commodities? Are Romania and Bulgaria part of EU or not?

  4. avatar
    Jérôme Quéré

    C’est un scandale, la Bulgarie et la Roumanie rpondent aux critres Schengen ils devraient y tre pleinement intgrs ds le 1 janvier 2014, comme prvu dans leur trait d’adhsion. Revenir sur cet engagement remet en cause la scurit juridique et bafoue les principes de l’Union europenne. Comment convaincre d’autres Etats europens de rejoindre la construction europenne si nous discriminons sans raison valable les derniers arrivs ?? Il n’y aura pas de dferlement de roumains et de bulgare sur nos marchs du travail. Ceci est une fiction pour effrayer les lecteurs et les faire voter pour un parti politique national cens les protger contre des hordes de travailleurs trangers. Mais cela n’arrivera pas. Le sentiment d’appartenance des nationaux envers leur pays, le blocage de la langue, les liens familiaux, … sont d’autant de motifs pour les europens de rester travailler dans leur pays d’origine. Il est de notorit publique que les europens ne sont pas assez mobiles, contrairement aux amricains qui peuvent ainsi faire baisser le chmage dans certaines rgions et apporter de la main d’oeuvre dans d’autres qui en ont besoin. L’Union europenne est encore loin de a. La libert de circulation et le droit de sjour au sein de l’Union europenne a t rige en principe fondamental, avec le soutien des Etats membres. Revenir sur ce principe pour donner un faux sentiment de protection ses lecteurs, inquiets en tant de crise, est non seulement un mensonge mais galement un danger risquant d’augmenter la xnophobie et le repli sur soi. Ce qui est totalement l’oppos du projet europen.

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasiliu

      Thank you. Your analysis is correct.

    • avatar
      PAVEL

      Votre commentaire est excellent
      Your comment is excellent
      Uw opmerking is uitstekend

  5. avatar
    Borislav Valkov

    What makes me different? Why should I stay in my country when in EU I can find a better future? Why I have to serve hollands, germans and french companies in my country and be paid as a bulgarian(lowest paid worker in EU)?

  6. avatar
    eusebio manuel vestias pecurto

    A Discriminação dentro do mundo laboral sempre existio seja qualificado ou não e sempre irá existir em muitos lados o trabalho não têm regas agora os sir. estão a comentar os trabalhadores da Bulgária e da Roménio Um emigrante quando vai trabalhar para outro pais é obrigado a sujeitar ao que le oferecem eu até estou de acordo com o novo projecto de lei de emigração que o governo do Reino Unido quere aprovar dentro da sua nação Na minha opinião só á uma solução a EU irá ter que rever o tratado schengen e que todos os cidadãos da UE tenham o cartão de cidadão Europeu

  7. avatar
    Nir Hannah

    it is “hilarious” that you even consider debating over an EU Constitutional right…Shall we start a debate on the right of corporations incorporated in West of Europe to open branches in our countries?! shall we start a debate over the right of west Europeans to buy land, work or open businesses in our countries?! We are not immigrants inside EU, we are not the “children” of former colonies or asylum seekers, we are EU citizens…there is nothing to debate about.

  8. avatar
    Máté Parászka

    i think in the e.u. every people needs the same rights.In the case of bulgaria and romania is a bit different, because when this countries got in to the union, a to much people understud that this is an option to leave the country by the open borders and only a few understud that it is a good possibility to bring things inside this countries.Now all this people want’s equal rights, but inside this countries not everybody has the same rights, so it’s a more difficult problem why realy a lot of people prefer other states as their own.I am part of a minority in romania and yes i see now, that in a few years i will have to move if i want to live and work as everybody else inside the e.u. I don’t say that it has to do with the idea that i’m in a minority here, but more because this country can’t offer a sure existence for people in some professions.So if i can’t move out and i have to stay i will have to change my profession what i don’t realy want.

    • avatar
      Limbidis Arian

      You hungarian minorities have more rights than any minority in the whole EU space.
      And still you want MORE. That little “protest” for your own enclave sure did us a good as a country. Let’s get one thing clear you won’t rip Romania apart and take it to Hungary, you are in the MIDDLE on the country.
      Give it up already for crying out loud. You and your damn party are nothing more than agitators stuck in the 19th century.

  9. avatar
    Mihail David

    Unfortunately some European states believe that they will me invaded by romanians and bulgarians, but that is not going to happen… the ones that wanted to emmigrate have already done that. I think that our image has suffered because of some very few individuals that have caused variois kinds of problems, but the vast majority is not remarked by anyone, because they have integrated in the societies where they have emmigrated to. Nevertheless continuing the restrictions has nothing to do with the european spirit… Should we also impose those restrictions in Romania and Bulgaria for other European citizens? Would it not be outragious for a german, a french, a british and any other European citizen not to be allowed to work anywhere in the European Union?

  10. avatar
    Nir Hannah

    well, EU is all about cross-border economic relationships, it is based on the Fundamental Freedoms…people are supposed to move and should be encouraged to get involved in cross-border relationships…I mean as long as enterprises and consumers are encouraged to do so, I don’t understand why workers should not follow the same trend.

  11. avatar
    Máté Parászka

    and i think maybe this generation who needs to go out now, will make the change in a few year inside romania/bulgaria, by learning how to make possibilities of living and working places for those as thei are, so the next generation maybe don’t has to move out and can stay at home and work as everybody in europe.this is what means equal rights and existence for me.

  12. avatar
    Nir Hannah

    equal access to the common market and unrestricted competition are fundamental principles of the EU. These principles apply also for the labor market. Thus, I am sorry, but this time, the rights of Romanians and Bulgarians are not open to further discussions.

  13. avatar
    Christos Mouzeviris

    Not the EU,but some EU states and that disgraceful… They want cheap labour and second class citizens.. So they found them.. They claim that because they have a lot of corruption they are not worthy of entering the Schengen.. Well there is a lot of corruption in Italy Greece Ireland Spain and many other European states. But most of them are in the Schengen.. I do not think that you can built a “union” based on luck of trust, just as you can’t built a relationship on the same grounds… If you think they can not cope, help them, don’t point the finger at them..

  14. avatar
    Mathias Darmell

    We can’t and cannot allow second class citizens in Europe. The fears that the fears “rest” of Europe has shall be dealt with support and solidarity.

    • avatar
      D

      First learn how to express yourself in English dear Sir! :-) And in case you have lived under a rock, there is religion that says that all man is equal and Darwin’s theory of evolution. You choose. We are all the same, like it or not. By the way, I am Romanian and I’m very pleased that I can put my point across more articulate than you, a 1st class citizen. We all die one day. That should make you ponder a little about your significance on this planet. Have a good day! :-)

  15. avatar
    Nir Hannah

    if you check which EU States are having discussions over discriminating Bulgarians and Romanians, you will find out that they are the same states with high business involved in cross-border transactions. I mean if Romania/Bulgaria will start debating about allowing English, Dutch, French, Austrian, German companies to apply for public works, then the same countries will scream about the EU fundamental freedoms and infringing the EU law…so, what are we debating about?! It is already very hard for companies from new member states to conduct business inside the old ones, but now there are also discussion over the rights of citizens?! In that case, maybe EU should be redefined and promoted accordingly. Maybe Croatia should also be informed that they have the “right” to eat only French and Belgium cheese and vegetables, to throw away their milk, or wine and other national products, but that’s mainly all…

    • avatar
      STEFAN VARBANOV

      this is not true everyone with a bit of capital and interest can make a company in Bulgaria and nobody will throw him out and try to stop him. You are Hippocratic and it is a shame for you to speak like that because you or your family have emigrate ones.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Nir Hannah has a very good point, when it comes to freedom for Western companies, foreign relations, local industries, affairs they are quick to preach about European law and European values but not the same when it comes to freedom of movement.

      @Varbanov the problem is anybody with a BIT of capital, emphasize anyone with the “with a BIT” part, how many people have a bit of capital in BG, especially since the banks mysteriously went bankrupt after they were bought by Western companies, and how is someone supposed to have a bit of capital when your cost of living is higher than your salary.

  16. avatar
    Urban Schrott

    Such a debate is an absolute disgrace that shouldn’t be allowed in EU. If EU accepted these members, to gain access to sell their goods to their markets, then their workers should also have a right to partake in the production of these goods and earn a living. If not, it’s not a union of equal states, but simple colonialism…

    • avatar
      Aurelian

      True! And it is colonialism… :)

  17. avatar
    Alexander

    It is easy to shout here about “discrimination” by people who only look at advantages for themselves. Unfortunately the ideas here are very 1 sided.

    1) CIRCULATION of people is a great idea in itself, unfortunately it is impossible in the current EU. Circulation mean that people can fill the void in another country.
    Circulation is only possible if we can move back and forth. And that is only possible if people from i.e. Germany, UK, Holland can move to BG and maintain a certain level of well being. Unfortunately the differences inside the EU are so big that circulation can not exist. This means that the movement of people because more of a 1 way ladder. If people move to Holland or Germany , then here there is more competition and people will be left without job. Where do they go?
    They cannot go to BG because there are very little jobs (that is why people from BG wanted out) and the pay is maybe 5% of the pay they would get in Holland or Germany. So the circulation in this EU is a dream.

    2) Then there is the welfare state, the social state. People life in Holland and have really good but extremely expensive security measures. People from other countries will move here and i.e. be unemployed after 1 year. These people are going to be paid by the dutch social system, while they only contributed 1 year.
    The Dutch have to pay for all that..Not really fair.

    That are just 2 examples.
    The problem lays in the current EU having extreme differences. In economy, culture, social welfare etc. As long as those differences stay this big , this EU can never work. And some countries will want to protect their life standard. To me it makes sense.

    And btw: you are not EU citizens, but a citizen in a EU country. So the EU cannot have second class Citizens per definition.

    • avatar
      Sakis

      Well my friend Alexander – if you work one year the Dutch social security will pay you only 3 months max and that’s all – to be able to access the full social security as a Dutch you will have to be permanent resident after 5 years – foreign police IND will control your file and allow your permanent residence, as a Greek permanent resident who paid his taxes from the very first year and for 10 years now

  18. avatar
    Jovan Ivosevic

    The problem that a lot of folks seem to be ignoring here is that EU membership comes not only with rights, like the right to free movement of labor after the 7 year period, but also with responsibilities. Romania had a particularly bad 2012 following democratic norms which are a must in the EU when the Prime Minister decreed that the constitutional court was no longer binding on its decisions, all in his attempt to deal with the president. Judicial independence is a must for an EU state. The Bulgarian government’s failures to tackle links to organized crime are also well documented. Both have been less successful than other 2004 entrants in tackling corruption. The deal was to tackle all these problems first.

    A lot of citizens from western EU states are going to make this argument simply as a way to block further immigration, but it doesn’t make the point any less valid. I would say the EU has to set a lot of conditions down for both governments between now and Jan 1 to deal with these issues before the freedom of movement is honored.

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      Check the info before making a claim : no Romanian prime minister ever decreed that the Constitutional Court decisions are not binding.
      How did such a junk idea even got to you ? From what kind of low quality info source ?
      It may be a good idea to check the info, before claiming something.

    • avatar
      Andrei M

      Get your facts straight. The Prime Minister did not decreed that the constitutional court was no longer binding. Barroso had a closed doors meeting with Romania’s PM and after this, he let Basescu win this thing, even though the vote was 87,52% pro-impeachment.
      These conditions you are talking about should have been discussed before letting Romania(and Bulgaria) joining EU.

  19. avatar
    Ivan Drvarič

    Western EU states are on the way not to be trusted anymore. New member states were exhausted and used as customers/consumers for prosperity for old EU members. Once you become unreliable for own community , you also become unreliable for world economy. Selfishness is never rewarded and is the invitation for own future chaos.

  20. avatar
    Cristian Negrea

    Eu ca cetatean roman am fost si sunt discriminat de statul roman, cat despre U.E. nici atat nu am incredere ca am drepturi ca cetatean european. Nici nu-mi fac sperante ca U.E. ma va ajuta vreodata cu ceva. Eu nu stiu ce anume inseamna sa fi cetatean membru al U.E. ? Toata Europa ne uraste sau nu ne suporta, dar nu inteleg de ce ne-a mai acceptat daca nu ne vor ?

    • avatar
      Valentin Ioan

      Cetatean membru UE: ca americanii in Europa.
      Europa ne-a acceptat in urma terminarii Razboiului Rece ( intre americani si rusi) in 1989-1990.

  21. avatar
    Desislav Dimitrov

    Ok, we’ve served our 7 years. Now how hypocritical that the issue is raised about bulgarians and romanians. Especially when the western european countries are still letting in immigrant from their colonies in the millions. This is embarrassing.

  22. avatar
    Alexandra

    The economical crisis made it so that politicians need scape goats, while the press feeds on people’s need to have a reason for which things go wrong. Romanians and Bulgarians seem to be the current scape goats for right wingers all across Europe. Back in the early 90’s, while I was growing up watching Italian television networks, the scape goats of the time were all Albanians, who seemed to be the all-round-perpetrators of all evil in the Italian news. It is only another (shameful) phase of pointing fingers, and this time it is Romania and Bulgaria’s turn to “be it”.
    I cannot help but totally agree with the Romanian Minister of Labor: pushing people into the black area of the economy is just as bad for everybody involved. And it is utterly hypocritical.

  23. avatar
    Ivan Drvarič

    Guess like Oliver Stone proposed revision and new view of the US history after 1945 guess same should be done for west Europe and all old members. Crime in collonies, holocaust, antisemitism, exhaustion of other economies, fear they spreaded, chaos they exported and rules and economy that exhausted , corruption they seeded in history – so much ingredients of evil and still no humility and wisdom in the system. Guess it is the process of improvement of the unity and cleansing process for better confront with past evil and how new members are able to support corection of the old members in their in ability to make distance from the selfish nature that caused so much evil in history.

  24. avatar
    Marcel

    Schengen itself should be abolished. The middle class and the poor here are suffering because of hordes of migrants from eastern and southern Europe. Send them back we do not need more workers, we have 8% unemployment. The last thing we need is more cheap workers undercutting our fellow citizens here in Netherlands.

    The only ones who benefit are big corporations who want cheap labor.

    • avatar
      Andrei M

      EU is not mandatory. If you don’t want other EU citizens in your country, there’s a very simple solution. Ask your government to withdraw from EU, according to Article 50 of EU Treaty, you have this right, but you have to ask for it.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      So you can leave the EU, I’m sure many would be asking their governments this.

    • avatar
      alex

      i would like you to be one of them workers and after that tell your opinion about romanians and bulgarians that they are cheap workers when you and your people are to proud to take low paid jobs but you complain that they take your jobs

  25. avatar
    Bastian

    It is exactly that type of bureaucrats like Commissioner Malmström who are screwing up Europe. The consequences of such mindless policies can be watched these days in her homecountry Sweden – Stockholm burning, Malmö burning …
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvmLl331Y0Q

    Besides that, the question raised in this thread is fake: Since the 1990s Millions of Romanians and Bulgarians have already left their country, no need for Schengen to do so. Another indicator that EU policy has completely failed. This migration left back broken families, untended children, poorer neighbourhoods, and the like. A few weeks ago hungry Bulgarians were revolting in the streets of Sofia. Typical consequences of imperial policies …

  26. avatar
    Gabriela Marin

    Also is important to open the labour market for Romanian and Bulgarian for all types of jobs, not only for some qualifications. Is free movement of goods but also of labour.

  27. avatar
    Limbidis Adrian

    There’s this mentality in West of EUrope that romanians and bulgarians will “invade” ( yes the term is actually used ) like a “swarm of locusts” ( yes that term is used too ) and either “leech of the NHS” ( hello, UK ) or some other fantasy.
    Reality check:
    Romanians and bulgarians don’t come to leech anything, if they come to the west they come for a better OPPORTUNITY that their country cannot provide – and willing to WORK to get it.
    Some state in the EU preach equality and all that, and yet adopt this “we are equal but some are more equal” practice.
    There are plenty of british, dutch and french people with shops and businesses or simply living in Romania or Bulgaria, what is those countries suddenly decided to “protect themselves from the invading foreigners”.

    This is pure far-right propaganda. UKIP in the UK and Front National in France have been pushing this xenophobic agenda relentlessly.
    And since most do not understand how the economy works and who screwed it up, they seem it go down and start to find someone to blame – and in every crisis “immigrants” or “muslims ” ( in 1936 it was jews ) or some other group are easily targetable.

    • avatar
      alex

      why is that?? they took your job??? as a toilet cleaner?? can you do this job ??? because they do just for the hope of a better day

  28. avatar
    Dacus

    The Accession treaties signed by all EU states say clearly that after seven years the work restriction should be lifted. Nobody discussed, or even suggested, the extension of work restriction for the A8 countries ( Poland, Czech, Baltics, etc) after the seven years period. The very fact that an extension of restriction is discussed is the evidence of discriminatory treatment to which Romanians and Bulgarians are subject. These people are not perceived by the rest of the EU as European citizens but as a sort of inferior peoples, not belonging to Europe or worthy to have equal rights with other Europeans. The Schengen debacle is another proof. Only Romania and Bulgaria were tied to a condition ( the MCV) that has nothing to do to with the technicalities of the border agreement that is Schengen. The extra condition that was imposed on Romania and Bulgaria entry in Schengen shows that these countries will be always denied their rights, no matter what they do. EU is an apartheid zone: the “whites” of Europe (Western and Central Europeans) have full rights while Romanians and Bulgarians, assimilated to dark skinned people, have fewer rights and are treated as the slaves of the rich Western Europeans.

  29. avatar
    Bastian

    @Dacus

    “The Accession treaties signed by all EU states say clearly that after seven years the work restriction should be lifted.”

    Don’t be surprised. The Maastricht Treaty says clearly that bail outs of member states are forbidden. And who in the EU cares now for this. Greece, Ireland …

  30. avatar
    Limbidis Adrian

    @Dacus: Bulgarians and romanians are white.
    But yes i get the sense we’re getting the short end of the stick here as the “sewage workers” of Europe while the West gets to live it up.

    @Marcel: Do you ever get tired of bashing the “immigrants” ? The same immigrants who built up your country when you needed? And that you are now telling them:
    “Thank you for help you can get lost now or go die or something!”

  31. avatar
    Nikolaos Sotirelis

    It’s a clear discrimination against two equal members. The countries that don’t allow free access and work to all EU citizens, should be punished with heavy penalties!

  32. avatar
    Dacus

    @Limbidis Adrian
    When I said “assimilated to dark skinned people, I had in mind the amalgamation of Romanians with gypsies and the politically correct use of Romanian for “gypsy”. In fact there is a sociological study published by a British University demonstrating that Romanians are treated as if they were non-European dark skinned people: http://www.esrc.ac.uk/my-esrc/grants/RES-000-22-3358/read

  33. avatar
    Dacus

    @Limbidis Adrian
    The study I mentioned is:Fox, J., Moroşanu, L. and Szilassy, E. ‘The Racialisation of the New European Migration to the UK’
    I quote from that study:“While immigration controls against Romanians were not racially motivated, they did produce racialised effects. Romanians, as well as fellow A2 EU members Bulgaria, were symbolically stripped of their whiteness by an immigration policy that refused to recognise them as full Europeans with associated rights.”
    In the tabloid media, in contrast, it was the Romanians who received the bulk of (negative) attention. This is because Romanians, unlike Hungarians, stepped into an unfolding narrative of stigmatisation that reached back to post-Ceauşescu images of AIDS babies, supposedly fraudulent asylum claims, and a host of unsavoury activities ranging from begging and prostitution to petty theft and smuggling. Associations with the Roma and Gypsy/Travellers in the UK cemented their negative reputation in the tabloid press’ handling of the current migrations.”

    The study’s findings show how two cohorts of migrants, neighbours in East Europe and phenotypically indistinguishable from one another (and indeed from a white British majority), are dramatically lightened and darkened by immigration policy and the tabloid media.

    Dr Fox added: “Our analyses reveal how immigration policy and the tabloid media have contributed to the whitening and darkening of Hungarian and Romanian migrants. Immigration policy whitened Hungarian migrants; the tabloid media darkened Romanian migrants.”

  34. avatar
    Paul X

    As a UK national I have no problem with anyone in the EU coming here to live and work, what I do have a problem with is those wanting to come here to live but not work.
    Enough of my hard earned taxes already go to the EU to be distributed to less well off countries, I certainly don’t want the tax that goes into the UK budget being spent on people from the same countries who come over here to abuse our benefit system
    Freedom of movement no problem, but the prime condition should be that you have a job to go to BEFORE you are allowed into a country

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      I find your suggested PRIME condition quite remarkable, because WITHOUT THE RIGHT to have a job, how can someone have a job BEFORE being ALLOWED into a country ?

      What do you think about it ? ( I stress the choice of the verb used here: not “feel”, but “think” ).

    • avatar
      Kroum Balabanov

      Voice of reason, Paul. Otherwise it would be a drain on the pension and social benefit system. What is the case with Poles, by the way? I read 1.2 million were given social insurance numbers, whereas some 0.597 mln are in the UK now. And D.Cam said that letting so many Poles in was a mistake.

  35. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    As we will be leaving your union soon and going back to proper border controls I am not really bothered…but the sooner we go back to a proper border an put an end to your unions free movement the better.

  36. avatar
    Marcel

    I think Limbidis Adrian just tried to pull a ‘godwin’ there.

    He conveniently forget that islam was the ally of Nazi Germany. And muslims in the Middle East never surrendered in 1945, they in fact fused nazism and islam into the anti-Israel ideology we see today, which rather remarkably is also prevalent in many left wingers these days (blind Israel hatred always dressed up in such a way as to hide the real agenda: hatred of Jews).

  37. avatar
    Marcel

    And by the way, immigrants didn’t build up my country, we did that ourselves.

    The ones I am blaming the most, however, is the undemocratic Eurosoviet Union, the enemy of ordinary people and democracy. And above all I blame the wealth-destroying Euro, forced upon us by the undemocratic politicians and their banker friends.

  38. avatar
    Petar Shumanov

    the answer is YES, but the real question is: Why states like UK, NL, FIN and other prefer and tolerate citizens from non EU countries like Turkey, India and Africa? It’s time to turn to Europe and not to dream about second commonwealth…

  39. avatar
    Petia Blagoeva

    Of course it is!!! Are we “second hand” partners? Bulgarians are not a real danger for UK. This is a political manipulation. Speculating with the topic some politicians wants to raise their rating.

  40. avatar
    Máté Parászka

    no friend, they don’t prefer nobody else.i mean the ones who are discriminating us, but there are nice people also as in every place….i mean i am minority in romania, and i’m discriminated in my own country also, so why it should be different in a west europ country?good and bad people are everywhere.

  41. avatar
    Parászka Boróka

    it isn`t about goodness or badness, it is about good or bad practice. there is discrimination against romanian workers in Romania first of all.

  42. avatar
    Máté Parászka

    yes a few days ago i said the same(on the same post), that the first reasen is that you don’t get a job home, or you are not payed well

  43. avatar
    Alex Zaharia

    Because of some of out citizens we are all put in the same jar … that’s wrong … we are all the same and in the EU we have all the same rights.

  44. avatar
    Mirona Rosioru

    We are discriminated, but it is the fault of the national authorities too who accepted all the conditions imposed by the eu just for the sake if joining and didn t fight for the rights if the citizen. That”s why we still have restrictions to work and that’s why the west europ see us as a threat for their countries and many other factors that give us the bad reputation. Everything comes from bg and ro governments.

  45. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    @Peter . The Commonwealth was , is and always will be better than your bloody union and its outrageous free movement garbage.

    • avatar
      alex

      mate it nerver was your choice !!! you don t matter !!!! that is why i am teling you go home and stay in for one year and you will see your right of free movement betwen brick walls and after that i would like to see your opinion

    • avatar
      Ross

      What a language!!! If that’s you ‘better’, this is a performative contradiction.

  46. avatar
    Marcel Onufrei

    We ( Romanians and Bulgarians ) are discriminated because different rules apply to us, schenghen or work rights, huan rights even… Animal farm remember? All animals are equal but some are more equal than others… This was the fault of the comunist system and it fell and europe will fall also if they do the same…

  47. avatar
    Aurelian-Ionut

    @David Fuzzey: Dear Fuzzey, your Commonwealth (actually, all great states) evolved grace to the free circulation of ideas, goods, labor force from/in/between all the colonies you had (I hope you don’t want to argue that).

    @Mire Usrt, Gorgos Silvia: Without union, Europe falls down. Way down behind USA, China, Japan, Brazil etc. For the sake of your children, for the sake of the European spirit, I ask you to think twice and try to see the bigger picture – the world doesn’t end at the border of France, Germany, Sweden or other West European country.

  48. avatar
    Bogdan Nikolov

    Unfortunately, most of western people think that Bulgarians and Romanians are gypsies, thiefs, criminal suspected people, prostitutes, liars, going to live there and get the social privileges, not working and take money when they got a baby. This is not true! Bulgarians and Romanians are very honest and hardworking people! These that cheat the system should be punished. Because we live under all living standards from a long time ago, there are very uneducated and very poor people looking for their happiness with not so traditional acts, but they want to live. Sometimes you have to cheat to eat! It is a discrimination from the western world to close their doors for us. And why this discrimination is ONLY for Bulgarians and Romanians? Western people have to see their bad sides that are not less than ours! The system should be changed and they have to help us, not avoid us. We need HELP and one day we will return the favor. One day, if the western world is with us, we will definitely live together better.

  49. avatar
    Bava Vava

    Yes absolut, when I was there I fill that I am in a nazist zone with some exceptions: one english people-a real old women, a litle in universitar environment and some foreigners like me. Do you understood ?

  50. avatar
    Paul X

    @Aurelian-Ionut

    You state “Without union, Europe falls down. Way down behind USA, China, Japan, Brazil etc”
    Why?? This is one of the biggest problems with the EU, people want it to be as big as the US..but why? The only people who would benefit are those in power. The countries of Europe have managed to survive for hundreds or years before the US was even in existence why do we suddenly need to join together to be as big as them? Power hungry politicians who want to be big players on the world stage that’s the only reason why
    Most Americans would love to belong to a European country with their individual history and culture, trying to force all these countries into a homogenised state is a criminal act

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      You should rephrase it to better understand: “Without union, only SOME high-level-of-income EU states fall down”.

      And about the precious taxes you complained about : I am sick and tired of being highly taxed and I should complain more than you do, since the main part of my taxes go to EU funds, and, more importantly, indirectly to foreign EU corporations, because also the government investment is channeled in acquiring goods from EU corporations, not only consumer spending.

      But I don’t complain … I work, I am highly educated, well qualified, and I try to do my best in this globalized brave new world that lives with its old sins…

  51. avatar
    Loredana

    @Mire Usrt, Gorgos Silvia: as I noticed you are Romanians and I must admit I am very surprised by your answer. Why on earth you would agree with discrimination ? Because this is how is called when different treatment is applied to different country members. And on all the “walls” it is written “equal rights”. I would like to hear your oppinion.

  52. avatar
    milen

    Does the EU seriously want to keep losing talented young people to the US&Canada? If so, then yeah, keep the restrictions, see how far that gets you. The simple truth is that innovation and development is fueled by freedom – of movement, of information, of speech. Deny that freedom and your state slides back down any development scale. And we don’t want that to happen now, do we?

  53. avatar
    John Smith

    @milen The EU will lose them to US/Canada/Australia anyway. Everyone knows that the salaries in those countries are much higher and the quality of life there is much better. Unless Europe has a drastic change the only people who would want to remain there are those who have never been outside Europe and have never experienced a better life. Europe will continue sliding down the development scale and even with all the freedom in the world it will not change the fact that the quality of life in Europe is poor.

  54. avatar
    John Smith

    @Paul X Yes it is criminal and the criminals are Germany France and the UK. Europe will not survive against the states anyway, no union can save them.

  55. avatar
    John Smith

    What’s my comment, maybe the Balkan region Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Albania should stop fighting useless tribal wars between each other, while France and Germany and etc continue exploiting the region, and instead start working together, sharing resources and helping each other develop and contributing something to the world. But what do the Balkans do they make BS land claims (instead of sharing the land), they start killing each other and committing genocide against each other and then people wonder why the Balkans is poor and a failure, they continue to blame Turkey for their problems when the Ottoman empire ended over 100 years ago, like South Africa blaming Apartheid for their present day problem.

    • avatar
      james

      Those wars were in Bosnia and Kosovo, Romania and Bulgaria were not involved.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes but Bulgarians and Macedonians are currently arguing and fighting when they should be helping each other because they both speak the same language and are de-facto the same people.

  56. avatar
    John Smith

    @Mihail more like the attitude of the nations (which were conquered) towards the empire still live on after its demise. It is natural for the Balkan region to resent Turkey after the fall of the Ottoman empire but over time they must learn to work and live together after all the Turks which ran the empire are long dead and today’s Turks have nothing to do with the empire or the damage the empire caused and its unfair to them to receive all this hate, plus Turkey has undergone massive changes since the fall of the Ottoman empire.

    P.S Western Europe and Bulgaria don’t have the same religion, Western Europe is Catholic and Protestant while Bulgaria and Romania are Orthodox, and the hatred (from the Catholic world) towards the Orthodox world still exists today, Orthodox Christians are hated even more than Muslims, think about Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Romania and Russia are hated by Western Europe while Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech republic, Hungary and Poland are favored, as you can see it has nothing to do with former communism. And when the EU delivers a speech about Islamic extremism in order to not sound anti-muslim it compares it with Christian extremism and labeling Orthodox Christians as the most extremist Christians even though it is the Catholics who have the history of burning people on the stake when they decide not to follow their religious policies.

    • avatar
      Mihai

      Dear John Smith, if go and dissect what ortdoxia means you will learned why wr splited up at the Niceea Sinod ..”orto” means “the straight “or if you want “the right” , doxa means teaching in other words the right teaching, whats the difference between ortodoxians and catholics is reduced to two major things: we kept the old rituals and “we” ( im atheist, thou) believe more in Jesus then in Hoky Mary then as a news to you our priests are allowed to have a wife , all that celibacy crap came afterwards. Now what can I tell you about EU ..Germany bought all our 3 major sugar companies, now they dictate the sugar price, the concrete is splited up between France and guess who ? Germany ..Eu is just a business company it seems and we are the second largest east european market after Poland. They loan us money with one hand and put us to buy their products we the other hand .This is colonialism nothing else

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @Mihai you are correct, the only reason BG and RO are in the EU is to keep them from producing by damaging their industries with the EU regulations, and forcing them to buy Western products, at the same time keeping them away from Russia or some other alternative partnership and having their compliance when it comes to issues such as military cooperation on Syria, Iraq etc and the loaning of airfields to be used as US/NATO military bases: that’s the whole purpose of the EU, Get out now.

  57. avatar
    John Smith

    The problem with Bulgarians and Romanians who want to work in the U.K is that they have the “grass is greener on the other side of the river” syndrome. They believe that because they will have “higher” salaries they will have a better life but what they fail to realize is that because of their low salaries the cost of living in their countries is very cheap, while in the U.K the cost of living is MUCH higher due to the higher salaries, and to top it off they will be working for less than the average salary (in order to be competitive with the Brits and Westerners) so really it doesn’t make much of a difference. It would make a difference if they move to a country where the majority of the population is poor and unskilled (therefore meaning low cost of living) and they are skilled and work for a wage higher than the average meaning they aren’t struggling for money.

    • avatar
      Andrei M

      No one has any syndrome. Romanians who work in the west usually send money home to children and parents. They also accept to live in conditions a westerner wouldn’t live, like more people in one room.
      To conclude, even if Romanians earn less, part of this money gets spent back in Romania.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      In other words nothing improves for anyone, other than the grandparents and children back home.

  58. avatar
    John Smith

    @Mihail Turkey probably doesn’t think for the better future of the region but I doubt they have any imperialistic goals and I agree they still need more changes before relations between the countries can be mended. The deal should be kept however (not that I am for the restrictions being extended) I doubt the lives of Romanians and Bulgarians will improve if they immigrate to western Europe, unless they only live there while they are working and bring the cash back to Bulgaria and Romania during their holiday leave.

    I agree a united Balkans will take a long time but we can’t go on with Serbs fighting for villages in Kosovo, Albanians fighting for villages in all their neighboring countries, Macedonians fighting for “Macedonian territory” in Bulgaria and Greece etc and everyone fighting for pieces of Bosnia and if everyone gets the territories they claim then we don’t want to have Pomaks wanting independence and Turks wanting to join Turkey so we either have a united Balkans or everyone stays where they are.

  59. avatar
    Limbidis Adrian

    I think Limbidis Adrian just tried to pull a ‘godwin’ there.

    He conveniently forget that islam was the ally of Nazi Germany. And muslims in the Middle East never surrendered in 1945, they in fact fused nazism and islam into the anti-Israel ideology we see today, which rather remarkably is also prevalent in many left wingers these days (blind Israel hatred always dressed up in such a way as to hide the real agenda: hatred of Jews).

    I was merely refering as to how every crisis in human history creates the need for scapegoats. 1936 it happened to be the jews – i didn’t say you are like them so there is no Godwin law here in effect.
    However since most people do not understand how the economy works and what the problem is – they tend to find simpler answers to their scapegoating needs: immigrants, black people ,muslims.
    I could turn this around and say you are a fine example of an islamophobe but i won’t push it without reading more from you on this site.

    And yes immigrants did build your country, they generally take low paid jobs no one wants in your country – those jobs involve maintaining and building infrastructure.
    Any questions?

  60. avatar
    Alin

    @John Smith
    The cost of living, if by that you mean rents, is indeed a lot cheaper in Romania comparing to UK. However, everything else is nicely aligned to EU prices, from food to cars, you name it.

    How can you compare an average 8000-9000 RON (under 200£) in Romania with 1300+£ in UK. Yes, is lower than other UK citizens, even if work harder than them, just to keep them satisfied, but still is a lot more gained than back home.
    Because of this discrimination you can’t even do things that you are actually allowed to do as a romanian, like registering to a GP. Everything is fine until they know your nationality, then they start putting questions, for simple fact they are not properly informed on the matter.
    As a personal opinion, Romania was never ready to join the union, but if EU took the leap of faith in us, why didn’t got involved more, knowing the corruption situation and every other problems this country had.
    If you adopt someone poor, you can’t expect that will simply get better just because has your name now.

  61. avatar
    vlad

    The problem is that for all the other countries the rules were the same. Now, let’s see if for Romania and Bulgaria the same rules apply. The EU needs Romania and Bulgaria for market benefits ( selling products there) but won’t allow them to work. Why? Change the rules so that any citizen comes into the UK should start a job ASAP so in this way everyone wins. Just think! People who want to emigrate, don’t care about restrictions ! These rules are just ecouraging them to make a living on the black market. So why not give them the right to work, wouldn’t that be beneficial for the country and more people would work, not try to cheat the state ?

  62. avatar
    A man who feels...

    It’s ever so nice when Princes are visiting Romania, having houses there and establishing businesses but in rest if it’s about getting workers, Romania is 3rd world full of gipsies who have only 1 study – stealing or taking benefits.
    From personal experience, school system is much much harder in Romania but we, being a 3rd world country enslaved by everybody else, our certificates are directly equal to British used toilet paper… and we are initially imported to be used as slaves (law was built in such way to permit that) that’s the sad truth but it is the truth.

  63. avatar
    John Smith

    What makes you think I have a hatred for the Orthodox Church, If you read my comments you would actually realize that its the exact opposite. What I was doing was identifying the hate the Catholic Church, which is the church of the countries which have the power, of the Orthodox Church, a person who hates the church would say that Orthodox is an extremist religion which teaches people to commit genocide on non-Orthodox people, did I say such things? Do you think it’s just a coincidence that the West is putting so much pressure on Bulgaria to give Turks and Gypsies privileges, do you think it is just a coincidence that Serbia was the scapegoat for the wars when everyone else was just as bad, do you think it is a coincidence that Macedonia has to give their Albanian minority special privileges and last but not least why do you think Turkey has always been supported by UK, USA and Germany, why not Greece, Bulgaria or Armenia.

  64. avatar
    John Smith

    P.S. In fact the West makes it seem that they support the extermination of the Orthodox religion, even way back in the 19th century and before they showed their intentions.

    I know Turkey is their agent in the middle east but they are not the only ones, Saudi Arabia and the other kingdoms are also their agents so why would they be doing so much ass licking for Turkey, it seems the only explanation is that they and Turkey have the same opinion, or Islam wants the destruction of Christianity so they allow Orthodoxy (which they loathe anyway) to suffer so they can keep the muslims happy and protect their precious Catholicism.

    They supported the destruction of Orthodox church’s and monasteries in Kosovo, Bosnia, FYROM and simply labelled it as rightful retaliation, some even went as far as to say they are relics of the past which deserve to be destroyed. Now you see why Bulgaria will not develop the EU makes sure that no development happens but the reverse, they make sure the Mafia runs the country, they make sure that special privileges are given to Gypsies, such as special minority social grants, special privileges in parliament, do you really think a country can develop in that way. They make excuses to close down mines, factories, industries and have nearly closed down Kozludy completely. If Bulgaria knows what’s good for it, it must stop being allied with the EU which clearly isn’t doing anything good for Bulgaria, end the bitter feud it has with Serbia over FYROM, get over trying to convince Macedonians that they are Bulgarians and treat them as partners instead of one of your own (even though there isn’t that much of difference but there isn’t that much of a difference between Serbs and Bulgarians either), they should all unite and look out for their own interests, nobody else not Russia, nor USA nor Germany nor EU will. Of course that is unlikely to happen until Serbia resolves its territorial disputes.

    Do not think I have some hatred for Bulgarians or the Orthodox Church. I am not British nor do I live in the UK, nor was I born there, nor do I have UK citizenship. Also I consider myself Atheist. The affiliation I have with Bulgaria is that I have a few Bulgarian friends who immigrated here in the 90s and they explained everything that was happening to their country.

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      And let’s not forget one recent example: Greece (Orthodox) was ripper-of, while Spain and Portugal (extremely Catholic) have greater problems in their balance sheets, but everything turns all right.

      John, you don’t sound like being educated in the Western culture.. I don’t want to judge, but this is striking. John Smith is an alias, carefully chosen, right? If you are British or Western EU educated, I would be amazed. My respect…

    • avatar
      John Smith

      I am a white South African who always disapproved of Apartheid, I was a child during the Apartheid regime and had no power to change anything. However I recently emigrated to Australia since SA seems to be heading in the same direction as Syria. SA was a very good country post-Apartheid and prior to 2004, everyone coexisted in peace and everyone had equal opportunities, but then the UK and USA started pushing BEE (Black Economic Empowerment), Affirmative Actions laws and other racial laws (which turn everything in society into a Black:White ratio) which, along with their puppet parties the ANC and DA, let to the destruction of this Great country and the exploitation of its mineral wealth.

      After the 90s many Bulgarian immigrants started arriving into the country, since the Western European and US borders were shut tight and they had nowhere else to go. I kept asking why they would leave Europe for Africa, and they explained everything about how they endured the same thing Greece is enduring now and how the IMF would not stop increasing the debt (under the guise of bailouts) until they privatized 100% of their state assets. After the Kosovo war, Afghan war, Iraq war, Libyan war and the preparation for war in Syria I started gaining a very different image of the West and it wasn’t long before the I saw the truth. The Orthodox-Catholic divide is just something I noticed, Orthodox Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine and Russia were reduced to desperate poverty while Catholic Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland had a fairly mild ride and even got some development funds to make them look like extreme successes. During the disintegration of Yugoslavia it wasn’t hard to notice that the Catholics and Muslims were favored (even though they had their fare share of atrocities which the west turned a blind eye to), whereas Orthodox Serbs were depicted as the ultimate evil. The most recent example, like you have mentioned, is Greece, I haven’t got a more appropriate word to use than bullying, Greece is being bullied and reduced to desperate poverty by the Catholic West whereas Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy don’t have it nearly as bad. Generally I can tell that Catholic Europe enjoys bullying Bulgaria and Romania with regards to work restrictions, and they are told to give privileges to their minorities such as Gypsies, privileges which you won’t hear any Western European country giving their Roma and you won’t hear them giving the same lectures or restrictions to Catholic Croatia now will you. The most recent comment by some Dutch minister made it obvious, that it wasn’t just a coincidence, “Balkan people are not European, many visitors to Bosnia and Herzegovina have felt relieved that they were back on the European side (Catholic Croatian) of the Mostar bridge.”, it was so obvious even the presidents of Eritrea and Ethiopia noticed the modern day divide in Europe, or maybe it is because Eritrea and Ethiopia are both Orthodox-majority countries.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      P.S. When Orthodox Christians get massacred and their churches destroyed in Syria, Iraq, Egypt or Lebanon you get absolutely no reaction from the West but the same can’t be said when chemical weapons are used. Whenever a Christian f*cks up they always blame it on the Orthodox, and claim that Orthodox is the most extremist religion of all.

      I’ve also noticed the other divide, between Sunni muslim which is favored and Shiite muslims which is always depicted as evil and as the terrorist sect, hence everyone hates Bashar Al-Assad because he is an off-branch sect of the Shiites and not Sunni.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      And John Smith is an alias by the way, I don’t give my real name online.

  65. avatar
    Syed

    This is too much of Nonsense. For international students from any where for graduation and beyond UK allows to work part time, allows to avail NHS. For Romanian and Bulgarian should take comprehensive health insurance and should apply for permission to work or card which usually takes 6 months can also take a year. Many students had left their education and returned back not able to manage without even a part time job. How laughable is this policy that a Srilankan or no matter any student gets a default right to work part time while being an EU state romania doesn’t.

  66. avatar
    Harlequin

    There are no jobs and homes here. The people who have come here have found that already. We signed up for the trade agreements only, not this.

  67. avatar
    John Smith

    Its more they fear than just gypsies, they make it out as though they fear gypsies, criminals, mafia etc. But what they really fear is that skilled, white-collar workers, more skilled than workers from Africa or Pakistan, will work for African/Pakistani salaries or lower. This will pose a threat to the normal white European Western man who will lose his job in favor of cheaper workers from Eastern Europe or will have to work the same job for less.

  68. avatar
    John Smith

    P.S. a lot of low-skilled jobs, particularly in the manufacturing industry, have been lost to China where it is faster, cheaper, and the workers are less pretentious.

  69. avatar
    Romanians not friendly

    I work with many Romanians and my opinion is that u have to lern more culture.When you get it and accept rules then u can came here.( UK )

    • avatar
      John Smith

      WTF does “lern more culture” mean, how do you learn more culture.

  70. avatar
    Ed

    Eastern Europeans need to understand that they need to build up their own countries, like western European Countries had to do after WWII. Our parents, grand parents and great grand parents lived in dire poverty while building Western Europe back up to whatbitbis now. Now with the EU Eastern Europe has a great help and advantage compared with Western Europe after WWII. Western European citizens are getting angry with the EU because at the end of the day we are paying to build up Eastern European infrastructure and atbthe same time we are paying about 10 times the price for building it because of out of control corruption in Eastern Europe. Connections between construction companies and Eastern European politicians. Young Eastern Europeans don’t want to build up their country but want their money now!!! So what are they doing? Exactly migrate to Western Europe to get higher paid jobs!!!

    I’m sorry to say but Western Europe needs to close its borders for Eastern Europeans until the living standards equal out! Western Europeans are sick and tired of being robbed from their salaries by means of out of control taxation in order to pay greatly inflated prices because of corruption and collaboration for Eastern European infrastructure. And the young Eastern Europeans are unwilling to put in an effort to build up their countries with all the EU funding. Instead because they want their money NOW so let’s move to Western Europe where I can make triple or quadruple my salary while under cutting local Western European workers. SHUT THE BORDERS NOW!!!!!!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      I hate one-sided arrogant comments by people with a superiority complex like you. Eastern Europe was developed, people worked to develop it (don’t call them lazy you’ve probably never even visited an Eastern Euro country during the cold war) but what happened, Western Europe along with the USA started pointing nuclear weapons and threatening Eastern Europe, they then started imposing trade embargoes, travel restrictions went along with anti-Eastern propaganda. Now when it all ended in 1990 they said “now you are free so sell everything to us” and it meant selling 100% of what they have, all their industries, their resources, their rivers, their dams, their lakes, their mountains, everything. And as a result the new Western companies which owned the factory the Eastern Europeans worked at paid starvation wages to its workers, but for Western Europeans this means cheaper prices in the shops. After all Western Europeans can’t expect to be paid high salaries and pay low-prices at the shops (the salaries are included in the price of the product the higher they get the higher the price) someone has to do the hard-labour and normally it is someone from the East. These starvation wages made the Easterners desperate and leaves them with no choice but to immigrate to the West, to build up a country you need money, lots of money and the only people who have the money are the Western Corporations which robbed their countries. Eastern Europeans are sick and tired of Western Companies robbing them and exploiting them as cheap labour, they see no purpose as to why these companies should even be in their country, they don’t even see what was the point of them entering their country, they don’t see what was the point of this alleged freedom they got. Now I don’t know if you know this but Romania has HUGE reserves of oil and gas, now it is being pumped out by BP and Total and all the profit goes to BP and Total i.e. Western Europe, nothing is left for Romania, hence Romania is poor whereas before it was pumped out by Romania and Romania wasn’t poor. Ever wondered why Russia is the world’s 8th largest economy now whereas in the 90’s it was possibly poorer than Africa, because Vladimir Putin (although he may not be the best and has his downsides) started working in the interests of his own country and not in the interests of Western Firms, during the 90s BP, Total and Exxon were pumping out all of Russia’s oil and gas for free, when Putin came in power he kicked them all out and hence his country got rich quickly and has developed. Its not as simple as just close the borders, when you close the borders be prepared to take your corporations with you, of course this may have a negative effect on your standard of living as petrol prices, food prices and etc will quadruple. Now I know you are angry but don’t call others lazy while you don’t know sh*t about what is going on down there because they may come a time (just like it came for the Greeks and Spaniards who were chanting the same tune as you) when you are in the exact same situation and all of a sudden you will realize it was a lot more than being lazy and just wanting money now.

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      The borders, from what I see, are shut. And while you the Westerns after the WWII received a huge wealth as a pure gift and re”built” the countries, my grandparents struggled in soviet terror and prisons, and this was the gift made to us by your countries, when Europe was split at Yalta. So thank you – but now maybe Russia would be a better choice than this lowest moral level European Union.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @Vasilmi I agree and that’s what the Westerners are afraid of, the East turning back to Russia, hence the only reason Bulgaria and Romania are in the EU, “Germany took them before Russia was able to take them back”.

  71. avatar
    Vasile007

    In all fairness, we should withdraw from the temporary EU, both Romania and Bulgaria. We will never be welcome. We should open our doors to China ,maybe Turkey. This is the future. EU looks dated.

  72. avatar
    Ed

    Hey dude! I never mentioned Eastern Europeans to be lazy!! So now you’re blaming Western Corporations for the inequality of living standards. Well I would say kick them out then! If you think that’s the answer. So what do you think is the answer to correct the poor living conditions in Easter Europe instead of starting to blast here at the site and blaming Western Europe for the poverty in Eastern Europe. At the end of the day and these are hard facts of numbers that Western Europe is overpopulated and can’t handle to absorb another 20 million Romanians and Bulgarians in our societies. Living conditions will deteriorate beyond those currently in Eastern Europe. This is just simple and basic math. And to set your ideas about me straight, I’ve seen East Germany and East Berlin back in the 80’s, lived in varies parts of the world, as a matter of fact I am still not living in my own country in Western Europe. By the way this not not trying to be arrogant. I consider your comments in the beginning grossly inappropriate. At the end of the day I stand by my comments to keep these restrictions in place untill the living standards in these countries have improved and to protect ourselves from further overpopulation and all other associated problems. At the end of the day there is only so much physical space to house a certain amount of people otherwise Western Europe will become a mass city. Free and unobstructed trade from Eastern Europe will over time improve conditions. If you say that these people are being exploited by Wesyern companies then take action! Go on strike and/or be innovative and start and build your own company. Why do you think Western companies have been so successfull over time? Yes, hard work and innovation. So my call to Eastern Europeans is start and build your own companies, offer products and services, compete on a global scale and we as Western Europeans are more than happy to buy your products and services! But we don’t want our hard earned cash to be disappearing in the pockets of corrupt EU and Eastern European politicians!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Um yes you did mention them to be lazy, do I need to show every phrase where you indirectly said they are lazy:

      “Eastern Europeans need to understand that they need to build up their own countries, like western European Countries had to do after WWII” So according to you Eastern Europeans didn’t build up there countries, actually they did without Jewish money.

      “Young Eastern Europeans don’t want to build up their country but want their money now!!!” How do you know what they want, go and live in their shoes being paid 100 EUR a month and paying 300 EUR rent a month, go and see how easy it is to build a country, they need an investment and they know Western Europe has no intention of providing that investment, the only way they can do it is to earn money in Western Europe and bring it back home.

      “Eastern European infrastructure and atbthe same time we are paying about 10 times the price for building it because of out of control corruption in Eastern Europe” If you know there is corruption why are you giving the corrupt politicians money, its almost as if you are paying them for being corrupt and licking ass. You aren’t gonna invest your money in a insolvent bank now are you.

      “And the young Eastern Europeans are unwilling to put in an effort to build up their countries with all the EU funding” Name one young Eastern European which has access to that money, the only ones who have access to that money are the corrupt politician which it almost seems EU supports.

      Your are right they should be kicked out but I don’t think Western corporations will be too happy about it. Wont be long before you here the EU complaining about democracy and not having a free market economy blah blah blah.

      “At the end of the day I stand by my comments to keep these restrictions in place untill the living standards in these countries have improved” Well then get off your a*s and do something about it instead of blasting your opinion on this site and insulting Eastern Europeans. You made a deal that the restrictions are for a maximum of 7 years, you signed the deal and had plenty of time to change the terms, so why did you sign ohh thats right Geopolitics were more important, remember the phrase “Romania and Bulgaria were brought into the EU so Germany can take them before Russia takes them back” thats the only reason they joined unfortunately these are the consequences, you have a problem go to Eastern Europe and fix things or complain to your own government instead of insulting Easterners.

      Corporations, hard work yeah like Paris Hilton is gonna inherit all the Hilton fortune and people will be telling me how hard she worked for it. There is an even bigger reason why they are successful, lies and ripping people off.

      Now on the last point, you don’t have a clue what I am doing, or if I doing something or not, and whatever criticism you put towards me can be used against you in the same way, kind of hypocritical don’t you think.

  73. avatar
    Ed

    Dear John

    That’s right! I never said Eastern Europeans are lazy. They are or want to be hard workers in Western Europe to make triple or quadruple their money. As a matter of fact I work with some of them. The thing here is that Romania and Bulgaria need their hard work t in their countries in order to build up their countries. I can understand that the average young Eastern European doesn’t want to live in poverty, I would do the same if I could. Eastern Europe needs their own people and it seems they not willing to build up their countries with all this EU funding and even better possible HUGE OIL & GAS reserves! What I mean by ‘they want their money now’ is if the borders are open “why should I stay in Romania if I can triple or quadruple my salary” it takes a generation or 2 with hard work to build it up. They don’t want to wait 1 or 2 generations of lower living standards while building up their country if given the chance to emigrate to Western Europe. Our parents, grand parents and great grand parents had no option but to build up our countries while living in poverty. Still remember as a small kid the stories of my grand parents. Jewish money you talk about after WWII. Nothing compared to
    the EU funding these countries receive in order to help them, not to forget the Oil
    & Gas you talk about. What an opportunity!.

    You talk about Western Europeans why they give their money to corrupt politicians. Like the average Western European worker has a choice. The tax is automatically take from his wages. National Western European countries have to pay disgusting amounts of cash into the EU for those unelected crooks who make €25000/month and who are not paying any tax at all, to distribute the cash around Eastern Europe and the mediterranean. So now on top of that we have open up our borders for 20 million of them come over here and take our jobs. By the way, my wife is mediteranean! So if the Bulgarians and Romanians feel they are being exploited by Western corporations, then use your brains kick them out and take control, if you say that’s the case and why haven’t they done so by now. The iron curtain came down in 1989, which is 24 years ago. Remember how Western Europe looked 24 years after WWII. That’s right, it was already in good shape, thanks to all the hard work of our parents. Romania and Bulgaria are beautiful countries with great potential and full of culture and heritage of which they should be proud. Their countries need them, get rid of the corrupt politicians and start building. We did it in Western Europe after WWII, I don’t see why they can’t do it with all the EU help! Yes, not blah, blah. Free trade will over time equal out living standards. As I said be creative, be smart and innovative with hard work will succeed! It just takes TIME to do it, instead of unwilling to spend this TIME and flee to West to make the money NOW! Yes it’s not easy, as a matter of fact it is extremely hard. So what’s your solution? I agree with you that Paris Hilton happens to be a fortunate chick, but doesn’t mean that other innovative and hard working smart people build up the Hilton business over decades to what it is now. This doesn’t happen if you sit on your ass and wait for other people to take care of you. This is also my message to lazy Western Europeans, get off your ass and work even if it means cleaning hotel rooms or jobs you don’t want to do. Stop the professional welfare recipients but be compassionate when you have to. On the other hand greedy CEO’s of big corporations need to be ashamed of themselves when awarding thenselves again of multi-million dollar bonuses. The problem is that these CEO’s are in a very powerful position to create employment, they will make sure they will get their money otherwise they simply move the headoffice elsewhere, where they can enrich themselves. If the EU tries to tax them heavily they will just move elsewhere in the world! Disgusting, I agree!

    On your last point I am not interested in what your doing and I am not critisizing you! Whatever you write is your opinion and this is my opinion!

    Keep the restrictions in Place!!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Well maybe you can help them in a way, you can protest to get those countries out of the EU because both of them don’t want to be in it anymore, for them it it is just an organization with senseless laws which limit their production. There is oil and gas in Romania but it is now owned by BP and Total that’s the problem. Now a misconception is that these two countries weren’t built up from the ground after world war 2 or they weren’t developed, they were developed countries maybe different from Western Europe, maybe not as developed but they still were developed, the problem is the crisis in the 90s and the privatization which the EU pushed for got them into this situation, where everything they have which brings them money is owned by someone outside the country which is sucking them dry and using the people as ultra-cheap labour. The only way they can truly be fixed is if the corrupt politician Mafia is thrown out of government and the countries nationalize what they have (of course this cannot be done in the EU). I know many people from Eastern Europe who immigrated so they can earn capital to invest in their own countries, but I agree that brain drain is not helping the countries.

  74. avatar
    Ed

    Hey, I’ll be the first one to support a return to the EEC! The EU as far as I’m concerned is the biggest money wasting organization the face of the earth has ever seen in history. People in my country are extremely angry at the out of control and destructive taxation on behalf of the EU, who supports all the corrupt politicians in Eastern Europe. A good economy is what’s required to get out of an economic downturn, for that you need buying power. Rob hard working people of their well earned cash then they cannot support the economy. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. As far as I’m concerned the EU and the EURO are defunct. Each country should stop immediately funding Brussels in order to stop the cosy teaparties and expensive lunches. I hope the UK will pull out quickly, which will start to shake up things. More will follow then. Back to the EEC!!!

    If you say the oil and gas is owned by BP, well take control. Look at the arabs at least they had enough and started the protests. People in Romania and Bulgaria can do the same. Stand up for yourself then, get rid of mafia like corrupt politicians and start building. Migration to the West is very short Term thinking. Destructive for Western Europe and not helping Romania and Bulgaria. Again Western Europe cannot absorb/ house another 20 million people!!! A very simple mathematical fact! For the protection of living conditions in Western Europe we need to control; out of control immigration. Having lived in various part of the world, I tell you that the whole world wants to move to the Western world! (Western Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand). Why? What have all the other countries done over time in history? Why is it such a mess in Africa, great parts of Asia etc.? Dictatorships, power hungry selfish very smart and intelligent individuals who use ideologies to surpress and force their power on large populations. The ability to brainwash/control opinions of large populations and use poverty to do that! Incredible How to stop that? Education!!!! Obviously those dictators are not going to allow their population to be educated, so how to start the initial education wave. So why over time and history the Western world has managed to create a high standard of living and the rest of the world hasn’t?? Wake-up Romania and Bulgaria!! Take control, be smart and think. They have had good education(my experience!). Coming to Western Europe is very short term thinking and a very short term solution to the problems there but extremely destructive for Western Europe!! Long term vision is your answer, which means stay in your country, get rid of mafia style politicians by means of people power and start building and don’t be selfish again by starting accepting bribes to fill your own pockets! Corruption kills everything!! In my opinion the ultimate benchmark for corruption is Nigeria, so rich of oil but yet so poor. Why? Education!! At least Eastern Europeans are generally well educated and have the ability and potential to become great countries with high living standards. It just takes TIME!!! And lots of effort to achieve that! Hence our parents in Western Europe after WWII. Western Europe cannot afford and should not allow our societies being destroyed by out of control immigration! It’s just a numbers game. So many jobs for so many people, I know that increasing populations will also create jobs but up to a point. Competition among individuals for life style will also increase, which doesn’t contribute to desirable and friendly neighbourhoods! Build your own country and economy, create your own jobs by
    offering the world products and services that are desirable. This is what creates employment, which in turn good living standards. Stop the out of control taxation so people can buy/support the economy. Look at South-Korea now, such a small country but yet an economic powerhouse! Well done.

    AGAIN, KEEP THE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE!!!!!!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      They are protesting for months now but unlike the protests in Egypt, Tunisia, Turkey or Brazil no one reports it, very few news channels have actually shown it on TV because no one cares or maybe they support the Mafia-like politicians because they do their dirty work.

      I don’t know why large parts of the world are a mess but I know why Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and the rest of the middle East are a mess. It seems Europe and the USA supports Sharia dictatorship kingdoms, but doesn’t support secular dictatorships which at least kept peace in multi-ethnic, multi-religions states like Syria and Iraq which are not capable of democracy just yet, at least the dictatorships gave the people some standard of living which is better than now.

      About Africa there was one country, South Africa (my former country before I emigrate to Australia), which was, in the 90s post-Apartheid, a very nice place to live for all people of all races however it was short lived (I’m not being pro-Apartheid or racist). What happened was that anti-white discriminatory policies started being pushed from the International community mainly the UK and USA (sorry to be saying this), these policies in the form of Affirmative action and BEE started denying whites the right to study, it denied white people the right to be employed and punished those who employed white people, every company was forced to adopt a ratio of 95% Black, 2% Indian, 2% White, 1% Others. This lead to thousands of white people fired from their jobs or retrenched, and were replaced with unskilled and under qualified people because they needed someone black but couldn’t find someone qualified. Same ratio was applied to universities however there were great flaws in the former black schools, and instead of fixing those flaws and retraining the teachers, to up the standard and increase the pass rate, they dropped the standard which lead to many under qualified and under skilled young people entering the work force and after a generation of this happening most of the country’s industries and local business have come either failed completely and have been closed down or have been sold off to American corporations such as the mines, which now means the profit goes to the billionaires in America and the miners barely have enough to buy a loaf of bread. The country is now a total disaster, it barely exports anything, imports everything and the currency has been devalued by over 50%, however you don’t hear this in International news such as CNN or BBC, all you hear is how great the country is, how prosperous it is, how much progress it has made, how successful these policies were, when in reality protests and strikes are a normal reality of life in SA, it has one of the highest crime rates in the world, has more reported rape incidents per year than any other country in the world, and the SACP (South African Communist Party) is gaining increasing support and is already threatening to start a civil war and create a communist revolution in the country, yet you rarely hear about this in International news. Sorry I went off topic but I had to explain why I may be slightly anti-Western.

    • avatar
      james

      I don’t support the restrictions but I do think that they should combat corruption. It doesn’t matter if they go to the UK, France, or Germany they will still be poor most of the time.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes they will be poor, they will just lower the average wage in the UK, Germany or France and all in all they won’t be in their home country so what’s the point.

  75. avatar
    Ed

    I know about South Africa, have lots of friends from SA. The people of each country make each country to what it is. If you see that other nations are taking advantage of you then first recognize this and take action. Not to forget that China is robbing right now the whole continent of its minerals, yet the African people let it happen. Corrupt african leaders who are being bribed by the Chinese and somehow don’t have the common sense to realize what’s happening and what the result will be in the long future. These crooks/criminals are very short term thinking people who absolutely don’t care to what’s happening to their people as long as they can fill their own personal pockets. Yes, the Chinese build a few roads here and there just to show the world that they are helping Africa. What a pile of horseshit! Common sense of people and long term thinking for the future is what’s required. Use brains and common sense, and be honest. Do what’s right and don’t do what’s wrong! It’s that simple. The hard part is use your common sense to decide what’s right and what’s wrong, well everyone has a different common sense. Humans by nature
    and instinct are very selfish and can’t be trusted with money. The bottomline line is having millions of Romanians and Bulgarians migrating to Western Europe is wrong. We’ve seen that with the Polish etc. They all should be forced back and force lazy and healthy Western European individuals to work, if they refuse stop the welfare benefits. If they then start stealing have severe penalties in place. Prison is not supposed to be a nice place!! By the way I’m not from the UK!
    can’t be trusted with money.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes I forgot to mention China is also exploiting the division in Africa, they are even dictating to SA which people they can and can’t give VISA’s to. All politicians only care about their own pockets and don’t mind the fact that all they are is an easily disposable ass-licker and servant to someone more powerful above them, what happened to their dignity and self-respect all they care about is money.

      That’s why we have to put in our educational systems to teach people not to be selfish, get in their heads until they stop even having selfish thoughts. We need to turn our children into human beings and not leave them to become animals which are driven solely by instincts whether those instincts are greed, food, sex etc. I agree that benefits should only be a privilege for those who are employed.

      I don’t whether they have been protesting hard enough, I am not in the country so I don’t know, I did here they kept the parliament under siege (trapped inside the parliament) for 8 hours straight before riot police broke up the crowd and evacuated the parliament, haven’t heard from then since. They should protest harder such as go on a full nationwide strike (bringing the government to a halt), get the police to join them, and if the government still refuses to resign bring in the army like they did in Egypt, at least then they will achieve more than being praised on how peaceful they are. I don’t know if CNN or BBC will broadcast, if there is a coup or revolution they would, but they are biased and these two countries aren’t really countries which are heard in the news very often. You should do your part and protest on having these countries removed from the EU or having the restrictions extended.

  76. avatar
    Ed

    By the way if the Bulgarians and Romanians have been proteting for months, well apparently not hard enough!! Get millions of people on the streets and break open central government buildings etc. Trust me CNN and BBC news cannot ignore this and will report. Don’t be anti-western! Just remind yourself that a Western nation welcomed you to their country. The rest of the world wants to migrate to Western nations!! Western nations have to protect themselves against out of control migration to their countries.

  77. avatar
    John Smith

    P.S. I am anti-western because I know a Western Country was partially responsible for the destruction of SA, not the western country I am now. Affirmative action is an American idea and was brought to SA by America it wasn’t something which the ANC thought of. It was all done so they can fulfill their mining interests of course they now have competition from China which explains why Obama was visiting SA and sucking up to the government cause he knows he is losing them to China.

  78. avatar
    Ed

    Still South African politicians are still responsible. They let them do it because, I’m sure they were also bribed by the Amerricans in the past. Another perfect example of corruption. They should have said to the Amercans go home or you can buy the minerals from us directly which would have benefitted South Africans. But again then large amounts of cash flows into the country and I’m sure someone would have been unable to control him/herself and fill their own pockets again. Don’t blame the Americans! Everyone is responsible for his own actions! The whole industrial world needs minerals and every nation will have to compete to the countries that have them. Trust me you’re much better of with the Americans than with the Chinese. Someone in the world is going to be a superpower and I much rather the Americans to be the one than the Chinese. Trust me they have 0/nil/zip compassion! I’m not saying the Americans are angels but at least they have some compassion. The Chinese just rip the continent to shreads and leave when they’re done!

    Every country/people have the power to control himself and are responsible for their own actions

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Look I blame all sides, such I will blame the contract killer as well as those who hired him. I wouldn’t prefer the Chinese but what I would prefer is no superpower like it was in the cold war, two powers in a stalemate with each other hence no country has any real “super” power because the other country would hinder any attempt for gaining power and hence there is no power to be abused, what we could possibly see is a new cold war between China and USA.

  79. avatar
    Ed

    Look dude! Someone will always be the leader. That’s the real world and hard reality. Nobody can change that. I just hope for the worlds sake it’ll be the USA, or any other Western Nation!!! There’s enough proof if another non-western nation becomes the leader. Just look at that non-western nation as it is today. I travel regularly to China and their cities are awfull, dirty, ugly etc. Terrible living conditions! You don’t want the rest of the world look like China or India or any of these places.

    • avatar
      james

      You are absolutely right. Linfen, China is currently the worst city in the world 4 pollution. When people go outside they must wear hospital masks so they don’t breathe in toxins. All of their cities are bad though.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Except that the Iraqi cities make Linfen look like Child’s play …….. ooooops, silly me how can I forget: there aren’t any cities in Iraq left.

      This thing called a world leader, world power is a fake artificial concept and everyone was better off in the cold war where there was no leader, no world power, just to different worlds which live independently from each other.

    • avatar
      james

      Pollution is a problem in Iraq but the much bigger problem is certainly terrorism

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Terrorism kills people, pollution kills the planet I don’t need to explain which is worse.

  80. avatar
    james

    I think that they shouldn’t be. If Romania and Bulgaria aren’t going to be allowed the same benefits and access that the others are then why did the other countries allow them to join? My personal belief states all people are equal by God. if the EU wants equality between all of its members then the EU’s leaders(Germany, France, UK) are not setting a very good example for the other members(Italy, Poland, Greece, Croatia). Now the reason behind the ban is corruption but doesn’t every country in the world have some corruption?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      The EU doesn’t stand for equality or unity and its too late to repair the damage. The Bulgarians and Romanians I know what to leave the EU, they feel the EU did nothing but cause most of their problems, the EU only wants them for geo-political reasons, same reason it wants Poland, Ukraine and Georgia, and isn’t even making an effort to convince them to want to be in the EU instead of Russia, that’s how arrogant the EU has become. They also believe the EU is harming their image and relations when it comes to Africa, India and South America as they being thrown in the same group as the colonizers yet did Romania or Bulgaria colonize anyone???? Hence they want to leave the EU rather than have restrictions lifted, they want nothing to do with this “fake” concept called Europe and want to be disassociated from it permanently.

  81. avatar
    Ed

    Where do you get this knowledge from that they want to leave the EU? Anyway, better for Western Europe, Romania and Bulgaria! Hope they pull out if that’s the case. After that, the UK will leave too! Time to cancel this EXPENSIVE EU and € project.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      I get this knowledge from talking to Bulgarians here in OZ, I admit I don’t know about Romanians and their opinion towards the EU. But you see Bulgarians have a traditional friendship and cultural/linguistic tie with Russia, it was more than just being in the commie Eastern Bloc, and they feel the EU is doing nothing but pitting them against Russia and using them to hurt Russia by dictating their foreign policy and free trade agreements to them, by using them for a European missile shield defense from a nuclear Iran, when in reality they know (everyone knows) it is there only to aim missiles at Russia and to get yet another military base closer to Russia and isn’t going to be used to shoot down nonexistent nuclear missiles from Iran. I agree Iran shouldn’t be allowed to have nuclear weapons but why are we throwing around accusations without any basis.

  82. avatar
    james

    By the way all countries have at least some corruption, even Sweden.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      The corruption is global and it comes from three supranational trade organizations and those are the IMF, the World Bank and the WTO. Some countries which either have resources which they refuse to give away for free such as Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, and others who are in an important trade/transit location such as Bulgaria and Romania have it worse than others.

  83. avatar
    james

    Also Romanians and Bulgarians want to be members of the EU, they know it would help their economies and combat poverty. If they didn’t want to become members then why did they join in the first place. The ban should be lifted.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      The problem with Bulgarians and Romanians, the reason their economy is weak and the reason they are in poverty is because their CORRUPT governments (same governments still in power) sold off, i.e. Europe’s favorite word privatized, all of the country’s assets (Absolutely everything imagine your leaders doing that) to billionaires from America and the EU. When foreigners got in charge of these assets they started paying extremely low prices to the Bulgarian and Romanian workers at the factory i.e. using them as cheap labour, and started selling the products on the shelves at extremely high prices, even assets such as utilities (power stations and water purification systems) were sold off and the new Austrian and German companies raised the electricity prices to be “on par with the EU average” yet salaries are no where near “the EU average”.

      The EU is continuously forcing them to sell of everything they have left such as land, mountains, rivers, lakes, beaches everything, so exactly how will the EU help their economies and combat poverty. The only way they can help their economies and combat poverty is to renationalize their assets which obviously while the EU will not allow that to happen. Of course they wanted to join because its easy to deceive people with what the EU was, they were deceived by the prospect of being able to travel and eventually work in Western Europe due to them being desperate in their own countries, that EU will help their economies and countries which turned out to be utter BS, the EU only wanted them and is only using them for the EU’s geopolitical interests against Russia and the middle east.

  84. avatar
    Ed

    What upsets me is that there are people here debating about this issue who have no ties or whatsoever to Europe. People who live far away and are not affected at all of what is about to happen. I’m a Western European citizen and my country is about to be invaded and our societies destroyed by millions of Romanians, Bulgarians and other economic migrants from former Soviet Republics buying passports in Bulgaria and Romania. To these people do they have any idea of what is about to happen here. It’s like your house will be taken over by 20 other people and there’s nothing you can do about it. Cram them all in!! Let’s see how you will live with 20 other people in your house that you worked for. They come take it from you, decided by someone else. Since I work with Romanians and Bulgarians, I know that they are selling passports there now. They told me today. This needs to stop!! My country is about to explode of anger and fear of what is about to happen. My country now has more people per square km than China. Do I need to allow now more people in?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      The people who are upsetting you are the people who are offering actual solutions to your problems which will be mutually beneficial to all parties i.e. Bulgaria and Romania will benefit and so will the UK. As for the UK having a higher density than China its perfectly understandable since China is a HUGE country the size of the United States, even though it has a large population it still has lots of land.

  85. avatar
    Ed

    So what you’re saying that in this world there is no problem with overpopulation! The world population according to you can double, triple, quadruple or whatever. You live now in Australia a country the size of the USA, with 23 million peole. You have no idea what you’re talking about! Go to China, India, the slums of Johannesburg where there is a daily fight for space and some decent lifestyle. Use your bloody common sense! Do I need to explain here the difference between 2 rabbits in a cage or 20! Use your head! This world cannot sustain 20 billion people! It simply doesn’t have resources. Do we need to destroy our planet completely in a timeframe of 50 years! This world does not need more people, and the Western Nations do not need more people by means of immigration in order to protect what we’ve build up and to protect our living environments. An answer to my problems. Yeah, right. You must be mentally living on another planet where common sense does not exist! You now live very comfortable, nice lifestyle because you live in a nice Western country which now is struggling to protect itself from out of control migration. Again to remind you THE WHOLE BLOODY WORLD WANTS TO MIGRATE TO WESTERN NATIONS!! THIS MUST STOP. Hope Australia sends a strong message and start sending people back. Like we in Western Europe need to send a message and keep the restrictions in place.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Where did I say there is no problem with overpopulation, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say there is no problem with overpopulation, I am actually in support of limiting children to two for each couple, i.e. no population growth.

      I gave the solution and that was to dissolve the EU, so Bulgaria and Romania can renationalize their state assets which were unlawfully privatized, at the same time no one will be able to immigrate to Western Europe. More money will go to Bulgaria and Romania hence they will be able to fix their countries (debt free unlike if EU money is used) and all Bulgarians and Romanians will return to their respective countries. Extending restrictions, sanctioning member states WONT treat the problem ONLY the symptom. As for everyone wanting to immigrate to Western Countries, they mostly want to immigrate to Australia, even from Western Europe and the States, due to its favorable climate.

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      Your right that the Earth cannot sustain its entire population, and this is EXACTLY why some EU countries ONLY exploit the others. And we pay high taxes too, which turn to EU, directly and indirectly … That’s the deal.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @Vasilmi you are right when you say the EU exploits you and your resources.

  86. avatar
    Ed

    Dear John,

    By the way, since you’re so fond of Romania and Bulgaria, why don’t you move there! Give up your life in Oz and move to Romania or Bulgaria.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      There is one big problem which is preventing me from moving there, two actually, one I can’t speak either language and neither are easy to learn, secondly there is all the bureaucracy with moving to an EU state without having EU citizenship. In reality I don’t want to move to any European country, Europe has always been overpopulated, dark, cold and miserable (although it is getting even more overpopulated).

  87. avatar
    John Smith

    @Ed, referring to your previous comment that you would much rather have America in charge than China. I think the Syrians would much rather have Secular Assad in charge than lets say Islamist Hezbollah which would be a realization of Iran’s dream of an Islamic empire.

  88. avatar
    Ed

    You just said it yourself! Europe is getting overpopulated, more so Western Europe. And now you say it’s OK to let 20 million Romanians and Bulgarians migrate over here. According to you it’s OK for us having to put up with this overcrowding while you’re nice and dandy there in Oz trusting that the Aussies will control their migration problems in order to protect your cosy and comfortable lifestyle!! You should move to Europe to experience what’s going on there and see it for yourself what’s happening. Of course you don’t want to move there. Life’s too good there in Oz. Why not move back to SA! SA has an absolute beautiful climate, absolutely stunning! I indeed would support open borders between Western Nations. Now this would be beneficial. Canadians who can migrate and work in New Zealand, Aussies that can move between North America and Western Europe etc. Why are you so preocupied with what’s happening in Europe? With regards to Syria, I have not formed on opinion. This is all pure religion. Religion has killed more people than anything else. At the end of the day, it’s just a damn difference of opinion, nothing else!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Like I said stop putting words in my mouth, or at least quote where I said its OK to let 20 million Romanians and Bulgarians migrate over to Britain, I said you should kick them out the EU. All I said was its wrong to impose laws and regulations with regards to industries, ownership of industries, agriculture and foreign policy but at the same time extending work restrictions.

      I told you why I left SA, my life was in danger and SA is on the verge of becoming the next Syria, otherwise life was better in SA than here. As for Europe life is definitely better in Oz, all you need to do is compare the size of Oz to the Western Europe and compare the population, that’s why I am in favor of immigration controls and population growth restrictions (i.e. two child policies), but at the same time I am in support of leaving those countries that the immigrants are coming from ALONE, i.e. leaving them alone completely.

    • avatar
      james

      Actually most of Europe has a low or declining birth rate.

  89. avatar
    Ed

    About learning a language, that’s just putting in an effort! Not an excuse not to move there. I’m sure since the Romanians and Bulgarians have had a decent education, a lot of them will speak english. My experience!

    • avatar
      Mihaela Vasilmi

      Most Romanians and Bulgarians speak English and another European language (French, German, Russian etc), from childhood. And that’s part of our education, besides having an excellent education system for engineering, medicine, mathematics, physics, IT etc. I am pretty sure Bulgarians are the same. You just sound bitter – and it is a psychological proved fact that some people when looking at the others picture themselves, regardless the reality.

  90. avatar
    james

    I think that if the EU is so concerned about corruption then it should make a good attempt to assist Romania and Bulgaria on ending their corruption problems. That may be hard to do but it could probably be done. Romania and Bulgaria are more important to W. Europe than most people think.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Important, how so???? Oh you mean it is important for Western Europe to keep them out of Russian influence, unfortunately these two states were actually more prosperous countries under Russian influence than the failed poor states they are under EU influence.

  91. avatar
    murd

    It is unfair to extend any restrictions for the poor people of Romania and Bulgaria who were always victims for the the rest of east EU regime ! Romanians and Bulgarians have the right to join back their EU family member states where the originally belong , they are Latins and must be accepted in their home “EU” including the schengen free movement space ,once and for ever. Romanians and Bulgarians are great nations and the EU countries have much to learn from their great culture . You have to live in Romania to discover these facts . No romanian will leave his home country unless he has work contract and he will be working hard and honestly to get food and decent living support for his beloved family ! those people still have strong familial traditions that you can not find in many EU countries any more !!! So open gates for those people once and forever .

  92. avatar
    John Smith

    Again someone talks about Romania and Bulgaria as though they are one country, or two countries with the same people. Romanians are indeed Latin and speak a Latin language related to French and do possibly originally belong with their EU family. But Bulgarians are Slavic and speak a Slavic language i.e. it is related to the Russian language and their family is in the East and not in this new EU regime. If you want to know they were 100x better during Soviet influence and all of their problems started after 1990, before 1990 they weren’t poor, only after 25 years of austerity measures did the country become as poor as it is now. The Bulgarians I know want nothing to do with Western Europe and the EU, they don’t want to be pitted against Russia so they can serve the sick geopolitical interests of the EU.

  93. avatar
    V. Valentine

    I’m trying to see the issue from both sides.
    The fact that workers from the two nations are restricted is a racist matter.Either Romania and Bulgaria ARE PART OF the Union or Not.
    Then again,if they are allowed to work,who will come to work?Dishwashers.Low skilled laborers and high school graduates?I’m from Romania,and I can tell you that alot and i mean ALOT of people wish to leave,but if they do they mostly know low-skill labor jobs.There are indeed notable,highly skilled dedicated profesionals,but most of my fellow countrymen are not well..civilized enough for the west.
    My opinion?They should cut out Romania and Bulgaria out of the Union as we are clearly not wanted.In fact we were doing fine before 2007.

  94. avatar
    Ed

    It has nothing to do with racism! Western Europe is just over populated and as you said A LOT want to leave Romania. I can understand that, but we can not tolerate that about half of the Romanian and Bulgarian population is about to move over here and take our precious jobs! We have our own low skilled workers who need jobs too. Again Romanians and Bulgarians need to build up their countries and generate their own employment. Our countries are already overpopulated and cannot absorb another 20 million people who are about to come over. This will again destroy our societies.

    I’M VERY SORRY BUT THE BORDERS NEED TO STAY CLOSED!! WE ARE ALREADY OVERBOOKED. NOTHING TO DO RACISM BUT SIMPLY NUMBERS!

    • avatar
      R.M.

      20 mil? Come on… We are not that poor. 2-3 mil max maybe. Let’s see if that happens and you can close your borders if it will be so critical. I think we (Romania) should leave EU. You will be the ones who will lose something, we have had no benefits since the joining. Who do you think you are? We won’t beg you for nothing, we are smart, educated and have rich culture… Soon we’ll wake up and choose better our leaders and build that country as you like to mention.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @RM And may I mention rich in resources to. Its you have leaders which use them for your country’s benefit. If the EU doesn’t allow you to do so then you will have to leave.

    • avatar
      Aerfen

      Dead right Ed!

  95. avatar
    John Smith

    Ed quit complaining, like I said the Bulgarians I know want their country to leave the EU, Valentine states that Romanians also want to leave the EU. James and Murd are just spreading pro-EU propaganda which no one agrees with. The solution is simple dissolve the EU.

    As for Western Europe being overpopulated, don’t blame it on Bulgarians and Romanians, it is overpopulated mostly due to immigrants from Africa, India and Pakistan, and also due to overbreeding from native Europeans, I mean seriously Germany and UK are tiny countries in comparison to South Africa yet they have nearly double its population. I suggest you to focus on these matters which are the major contributors to your overpopulation problem instead of a few poor Romanians and Bulgarians.

    • avatar
      james

      You are right, according to the British government, 55% of all immigrants came from Asia (mostly India and Pakistan), high numbers also came from Bangladesh. 35% more came from Africa.

    • avatar
      james

      90% of all immigrants were not from the EU

  96. avatar
    V. Valentine

    We’re part of this so called “Union” just so they can access the Black Sea.They don’t really care about us.Another reason we’re in is to that they can sell the junk that their nations won’t buy,and less border taxes.In fact that’s probably why most nations of the former soviet block are part of the Union,not because they want us to “Wellfare”.

    They really should call it the “Union of Western Europe” because they are the only ones who really prosper,more or less.Hell other than Germany,France and The UK every other nation is starting to benefit less and less.

    If those guys really think we shouldn’t have the right to live and work in their country as equal,then can’t they at least give us the right to not be part of their Union?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Spot on 100%. Glad people realize the truth. That’s the only reason Bulgaria and Romania are in the EU, remember what they used to say “Germany took them in before Russia takes them back”. They need them, like you said, so they can control the Black Sea i.e. cutting off Russia from the Balkans, so they scan pit former Russian allies against Russia and to isolate Serbia de-facto forcing them to join the EU.

      The other reason you are in is, like you said, so they can sell their products to you without any import taxes imposed by you country, which eventually ruins your own produce and coupled with the senseless EU laws and regulations which somehow only seem to ever apply to Romania and Bulgaria completely destroy your county’s industries which makes you 100% dependent on Germany and France. Even your country’s capability of producing electricity is ruined e.g. in Bulgaria the EU is consistently forcing them to shut down their only nuclear power station in favor of importing electricity and expensive solar panels from Germany and France. The other main reason you are in the EU is too create a wealth gap within the union, a wealth gap between the rich western states and the poor eastern states, people are paid less in Romania and Bulgaria however the cost of living has always been much lower in those two countries (largely because of the fact they produce locally most of what they need) than lets say France or the UK, but what the EU does is raise the cost of living by damaging their production and forcing them to import their good such as food, water, electricity, as a result Bulgarians and Romanians want to emigrate to Western Europe where they believe they will have a better life but all that happens is they get used as cheap labour (benefitting the corporations and big businesses) which effectively destroys the middle class throughout Europe.

      As for your last point you are right, there is no European Union, there is only Germany, France and the UK and they dictate how others are supposed to live their life. They should know that nothing works by force, because force cannot last forever eventually they lose their power, they need to make Bulgaria and Romania want to be part of the EU and in order to do that they need to stop the discrimination against them otherwise eventually these two countries will leave the EU, when they see that they will be better off with “alternative” partnerships.

      P.S. I lied I am not fully white South African, my father is of Bulgarian descent, hence my extraordinary knowledge.

  97. avatar
    John Smith

    Its a hierarchy, as per the Roman divide and conquer principle. The most successful empires employ this principle, you divide people. You divide people and then you favor certain groups over the others, the groups you favor become your loyal allies whereas the rest are too weak to resist.

    As per my observation here is the hierarchy:

    1) Northwestern Europe: UK, Germany, Belgium, Scandinavia etc.
    2) Southwestern Europe: France, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc.
    3) Catholic Eastern (non-Western) Europe: Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia etc.
    4) Orthodox Western Europe: Greece, Cyprus.
    5) Orthodox Eastern (non-Western) Europe: Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Macedonia, Ukraine, Armenia etc.

    As you can see you are placed at the bottom, it isn’t hard to notice that you are Europe’s least favorite, even certain muslims will be favored over you such as Turks, Albanian muslims, Bosnian muslims, Roma muslims. Seriously do you witness Croatia the newest EU member being treated in nearly the same way as Bulgaria and Romania, do you hear the EU complaining about how Croatia treats minorities no, they recently had a scandal with Cyrillic signs in Vukovar which the EU turned a blind eye, but you will never hear the end of the EU complaining about how Gypsies and Turks are being treated in Bulgaria and Romania, when these two groups have more rights in Bulgaria and Romania than Bulgarians and Romanians themselves and the EU continues complaining. The main reason for putting you at the bottom is because the EU and America/Western Empire’s biggest threat is Russia and since Russia is an Orthodox country, its former Orthodox allies might not be too happy about being pitted against Russia hence you have to keep them poor and weak, keep them believing Russia and Communism are the cause of all their troubles even though we know that is not the case since all their troubles began after the end of communism, and keep them believing that the EU will help them and that they will eventually be prosperous in some distant future i.e. in 10, 20 years, and now that those 10,20 years have passed somehow you have to wait another 10, 20 years until thinks improve but in reality you are just kept as a colony.

  98. avatar
    V. Valentine

    That’s a tough one.To be “european” means to abandon national identity.But if we do not become “europeans” we are not accepted.The other day i saw a product labeled “made in the UE”.That almost made be barf.Then again this whole matter must be a hair pulling matter for the “big guys” too.Give rights to that group-oh no that group has too many rights.Our population is aging-AAH foreingers are coming and are overpopulating us!Give money to a bankrupt nation-AH!They aren’t gonna pay us back!Let’s assume that they are humans,and they make mistakes.Mistakes that cause the unhappiness and misfortune of others that they aren’t even aware of.Every side has wrong and rights.Equal is tough to achieve and some people aren’t content with being “Equal with that guy?!”.

    Oh and some ethnic groups…they got way too many rights.I mean we got gypsies (the term roma is stupid,and so are those who came up with the idea),who got way more rights and money than any honest working romanian.What would you feel like looking up the news and see a bunch of uneducated,loud mouth violent people blocking the street with their weddings?I am not racist.I speak the truth : Gypsy crime families run the streets,they got tons of money all illegaly gained.Loan sharks.Live in palaces with golden roofs.I am again,not being racist.Not all Gypsies are this way.Some are actually poor.It is hard however to determine which are and which are not!Romas outside got no idea what I’m talking about and think i’m racist,but you cannot think diffently when you see the social injustice I’ve seen.

    The West has hence,a good reason to hate us.You cannot make a difference between one’s ethnic group and nationality.Seeing this from their point of view i’d say that their restriction policy has hence..some solid points.IMO?They can keep it,but modify it as such that one is allowed to join their nation’s workforce if they meet certain requirements.

  99. avatar
    Ed

    Dear John

    I’m not complaining! Just stating the inevitable what is about to happen despite all the arguments mentioned here and other irrelevant BS. The inevitable is that the borders will open and Western Europe will be flooded by economic migrants. Destroying our labour market and societies. All the other Eastern European countries should have the same restrictions imposed to begin with. The idiots who said that only a few would come over have learned the hard way. We have learned the hard way since millions of Eastern Europeans flooded our labour markets. Nobody in my Western European country is really anxious to all these
    people heading our way. (I am not from the UK!). My country/our people are about to explode of anger and fear. Seeing millions of Romanians and Bulgarians willing to work for a fraction of what a western European would earn. Dangerously undercutting the Western European laborer. Our people also need
    low skilled jobs, instead the danger now that a Bulgarian will take his place. Everybody here is talking about the poor Romanians. What about the poor Germans, Spanish, French, Belgian, Danish etc. workers. Dear John you still haven’t answered the question why you are so interested in this topic, since it doesn’t affect you one bit since you live a very cosy lifestyle there in Oz. I said since you’re so interested why not move to Romania or Bulgaria? Your argument was well I don’t speak the language. That a cheap excuse not to move. This situation here will directly affect me and the rest of my family in Western Europe. Honestly I would like to see all Eastern Europeans leaving back to their own countries, build it up and when living standards have equalled Out then open the borders. This is just unfair competition for the regular Western European worker. The Romanians and Bulgarians want to be part of the EU only just because they can move to the west where they can quadruple their salary at the expense of the Western European worker. This is like open the US border with Mexico. So John since this doesn’t affect you directly and it does affect me directly, stay on the background a bit unless you move to Europe!

    KEEP THE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE PLEASE!!!!

  100. avatar
    Ed

    Oh yes, not to forget what I mentioned in my previous columns, that corrupt Romanian and Bulgarian officials selling passports to citizens from other countries!!! This was just mentioned to me a few days ago by a Moldovan co-worker who managed to buy a Romanian passport. Now all of a sudden everybody there in the Balkans want a Romanian passport. Only because the borders open on the 1st of Jan. to Western Europe. That’s all OK is it? We should just have to tolerate that right! Just another reason to keep the borders closed before the whole bloody Asian and African continent moves over here. We should just give it all away right! Everything we have worked for and build up over the last centuries.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Well I agree with you on one point and that is that every country should close their borders in the world completely unless there is a mutual agreement by the people (i.e. by a referendum) of both countries to open the borders. By shutting the borders completely I mean completely i.e. no multinational corporations which own assets across various countries, no IMF, World Bank or other global financial organizations, no Iraqi invasions or toppling “dictatorial regimes” its their problem let them deal with it by themselves, and we return back to the gold standard or we propose bartering as a means for international trade instead of using fiat paper currencies which have no real value, which some banker decides how much it is worth by sucking his thumb, and we end up with certain paper currencies such as the Euro and Dollar which can be printed indefinitely on end without losing their value whilst others end up with hyperinflation.

      I am in full agreement for closing the borders completely as I stated above. It will be beneficial for all middle class normal people.

  101. avatar
    John Smith

    Yes above that they hate the Orthodox Slavs even more because of two things Russia is Orthodox and hence they are even in the same subgroup as Russia and second because Catholicism and Orthodox have different values, with Orthodox Christianity it is about true Christianity i.e. Orthodox, with Catholicism it is about money, money and more money, the religion and church were all created with the sole purpose of making an elite group rich e.g. the pope at the expense of the church’s followers. Now you can see why the West much prefers Catholicism over Orthodoxy, hence they are trying to make Orthodoxy sound like a backward, extremist, medieval religion which they are doing there best to try and destroy.

  102. avatar
    Ed

    I REST MY CASE!! Again everybody/The whole world wants to move WENAAN (Western Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand). We have to fight back and control out of control immigration. Why??? See my previous columns. No tricks will be spared to achieve the goal to migrate to WENAAN. Criminal practices etc. Saw on CNN recently in Australia interviews of Afghans who migrated to Australia. These people stated that they fear for their life, which I can understand. So why not flee to say Russia, China. A hell of a lot closer than Australia. But no of course these ‘poor’ people managed to pay people smugglers bucket loads of cash to get them to Australia. Again why Australia and not nearby countries? Because Australia is such a nice place right! Regardless of their so dangerous situation they’re in they are still picky of where to migrate to. Incredible!!

    The tolerance in WENAAN starts to suffer and for a good reason!

    KEEP THE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE!!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      You honestly blaming the Afghans that they choose to emigrate to Australia and not neighboring countries, what makes you think they don’t want to go to China or Russia, but they can’t because those two countries aren’t very generous in handing out citizenship (in-fact you don’t know how many might be living in Russia and China currently).

      But then again there were so many other countries yet you chose Afghanistan to sponsor and arm terrorist groups to fight the Soviets and then invade to “save” them from the same terrorist groups, and you are complaining about refugees wanting to move to the west due to the dangerous situation created by the West, again like I said earlier you want them to leave your country, then you leave theirs.

      As for me wanting to move to WENAAN, where I want to move is back to SA, and hopefully their membership in the BRICS will help them improve their situation.

  103. avatar
    John Smith

    About the reasons you mentioned I don’t think Western Europeans are More educated, the Western Education is a complete failure in most countries look at USA kids shooting each other, and look at Britain where teachers teach in cages to be protected from the pupils. Of course Eastern European education has probably been ruined completely since the fall of the Berlin Wall. They are not more tolerant, as you can see by Ed’s comments and other Westerner’s comments.

    As for the standard of living there are a few ways you can improve yours: you have to get the Mafia out of government, nationalize your assets which were unlawfully privatized to Western oligarchs (if the EU doesn’t allow you to do this then you will unfortunately have to leave), and then use the profit from exports to improve living standards and to pay higher wages. Moving to Western Europe will not solve any of your problems, since Western Europe isn’t much better due to the cost of living being EXTREMELY high, don’t even think of owning a place to live because that is a privilege only for the very rich in Western Europe.

  104. avatar
    Zak

    I don’t care if any one comes into a country and wants to better there Life! Bulgarians and Romanians deserve a chance like any one else! My problem is when people come in the country and just ‘leech’ off the system! I think we should put restrictions not on work or access to it, but the social welfare and health care that we give out so easily! BRITISH CITIZEN!

  105. avatar
    Ed

    The afghans are just an example! Why aren’t people from Sri Lanka and all the other counties just choose WENAAN (Western Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand) to migrate to and not nearby countries. I’m not emphasizing on Russia and China for the Afghans. There are numerous other nearby countries to migrate to. No, the whole world chooses WENAAN!! And John you still haven’t answered the question why are you so interested in this topic since it doesn’t affect you at all! I only have to read the last column of Valentine to rest my case that another one wanting to migrate to WENAAN! And John I know you’ll never move back to SA. Just a bunch of BS

    • avatar
      John Smith

      “There are numerous other nearby countries to migrate to” Like which other countries, only Russia and China are the only viable countries and there are probably many Afghan immigrants there particularly in Russia. There is always India but has a population overgrowth problem even more severe than Weuro (new name for Western Europe) so it can’t be too good for them.

      Why I am commenting on this topic, originally I commented on another topic in Debating Europe but they sent me other topics (this included) which I “may be interested in” hence I checked it out. Valentine doesn’t want to move to WENAAN he wants to move to NAAN. But anyway its a morality issue you cannot invade, occupy and destroy another country like Afghanistan and Iraq and then complain when people immigrate to your country.

      And you don’t know whether I won’t move back to SA, SA was something special, something not even WENAAN can match, to bad it has a lot of problems though hopefully the BRICS alliance will keep it from total destruction.

    • avatar
      james

      If you chose Russia or China, you would be moving into a dictatorship that would probably throw you out pretty quickly.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      What’s the difference, America and the EU are also dictatorships just of another forum but nevertheless dictatorships. The only difference is EU is America’s puppet whereas Russia and China are allies but nevertheless still rivals hence neither will allow the other to become too powerful and there will be a power balance which seems like the lesser evil compared to an unchallenged power which is the USA.

  106. avatar
    Ed

    Also perhaps WENAAN needs to stop our generosity, of giving out free everything incl. passports. Oh, yes just because the Russians know how to control their immigration, they don’t choose to move there.

    Dear new Prime Minister of Australia. Mr. Tony Abbott. I sincerely trust you and hope you send a strong message to the rest of the world by parking all these illegal immigrants back to where they come from. You have my support. Perhaps us here in Western Europe can learn a lesson. Yes, it takes courage to do that but the time has come to act. Humans by nature will take advantage and abuse what is available if not stopped by force. Why work if you can get free money, milk the NHS in the UK to the max, etc.

    I know I have hit the nail on the head.

    KEEP THE RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE!!!!!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Why is it that you refuse to acknowledge your part in the deal. Close your border nobody minds but at the same time take your corporations and international banking/finance institutions, NGO’s out of those countries, and enough with invading and occupying and supporting rebels in other countries. Return to a gold standard or a good exchanged with good type of trade system and then you can close all borders. Simple deal I don’t know why you don’t want to agree with the terms.

  107. avatar
    John Smith

    Try Australia it is better than all the other places and better than the whole continent. P.S. you won’t have people like Ed complaining because it is far from being overpopulated an area of 7.5 million sq. km and a population of 22 million which is less than the UK’s 60 million (now I understand why Ed wants to close the borders so badly).

    As for Romanian and Bulgaria being similar. Seriously??? I though they were completely different Bulgarian being a South Slavic language and Romanian being a Latin language so how can they possibly be similar.

    “Sure it’s convenient for everyone to be polite,wear decent unrevealing clothes and keep quiet in public spaces” Trust me that’s not how people are like in Western Europe, unrevealing clothes? Maybe 60 years ago, just maybe but now its almost considered a crime to wear unrevealing clothes and keep quiet in public spaces.

  108. avatar
    Gigi Becali

    THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

    • avatar
      Andrei

      American my ass… This is typical propaganda of the current oposition who has the president. I’ve heard this text like a million time. To be noted how he didn’t say anything bad about the president.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Then why is Romania in the EU, if you don’t want to let them work in EU member states. If you want Romania for your geopolitical interests then they have to get something in return otherwise they will crawl back to Russia.

      P.S. what makes you think they elected a corrupt government, its not like a government advertises how corrupt they are, unfortunately every government is corrupt and every government does the same thing (no matter what they promise) when in office and works for the same people’s interests, hence there is no real democracy since all governments pretend to represent different idea, different people, different classes but when they are elected they all do exactly the same.

      As for building up their countries they have been working on building up their country for the 45 years before 1991, however when the corruption and crime (symbols of capitalism) came from the West in the years after 1991, maintenance of their country took a back seat and that’s why it is as poor as it is now.

    • avatar
      RM

      First – I don’t think you are an american – they are not narrow minded like you, saying “They are incapable of anything good”. Search Google for Romania inventors, scientists and anything like that. This country was built in millenniums not in the past 20 years – and if you’ll (the readers) ever visit our country you’ll see anything this guy has written is not true. My family, friends and everybody else I know are full-time workers in various fields, and they are very appreciated for their knowledge, skills and effort. WE ARE NORMAL PEOPLE – but just a poor country (read John Smith posts to find out why because he has a good and valid opinion about it). You my friend are here only for political propaganda – saying something about Ponta and Antonescu and don’t mentioning nothing about the worst politician in the last 20 years (the president Basescu) reveals your true face. Few milions (perhaps 2-3) will probably leave the country (80-90% as hard-workers, or nurses or doctors and engineers) but the rest will stay here. I don’t know anyone stealing, cheating or such things and I’m 28 years old and lived here all that time. Oh and almost forgot, we have the resources we could use to return back on track ($14 mld. gold resources in Rosia Montana) but we care to much about environment and historical artifacts to let anyone dig for that gold (there are protests in Piata Universitatii right now on this manner) – so there is not only money the most important thing. You spit insults to all people in this country and make political propaganda – lying about anything. Expensive cars and no bank accounts?! Really?! There are a lot of western european banks in this country and are doing just fine with our money. The major car in the country is the cheap Dacia, romanians are borrowing money for a 40m2 apartment they will pay for the rest of their lives. Shame on you!

  109. avatar
    Ed

    John, why are you so interested in this topic?? It’s far away from and doesn’t affect you at all!

    • avatar
      Ed

      Sorry John read your reply above. Internet delay! With regards to taking our corporations with us. Like I said in previous columns; take control and kick us out, don’t accept our bribes anymore etc. Everyone incl. countries can take control of their own destiny and so they should. WENAAN countries have failed to act and take control, that’s why they are now facing the consequences of out of control immigration. What amazes me is that no matter how poor/desperate some people supposedly are, they somehow manage to still be picky where to migrate too and to find the resources to achieve that. “I am in fear of my life in Afghanistan but don’t want to move to India because that’s not comfortable enough, I want to go to WENAAN” incredible human resilience! Same for you John. Why didn’t you move to say Kenya or other African countries, South America.

      It’s always WENAAN!! I’m sure the Syrians are also on their way! Doesn’t mean that I don’t have any feelings or compassion. I am disgusted what happens
      there. I don’t blame these people but WENAAN cannot absorb the whole world!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Why don’t I move to other African countries, I’d much rather stay in SA than move to other African countries as for South American countries like I said I don’t understand the language, but neither of them are better than SA anyway.

      As for taking control and kicking you out, you mean like Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi, not that simple pal, you also have to be do you part and actually leave when people ask you too. Look at Mexico for example the people are on the streets because they don’t want WENAAN there and neither do they want to move to WENAAN. Even the same can be witnessed in Romania with regards to the gold mine. Almost everybody has a special feeling towards the place they grew up and spent their childhood. And again I ask you why are you so resistant to taking responsibility, we all know corporations are mostly no good and immoral look at Exxon for example, or Monsanto.

      As for WENAAN it can’t absorb the whole world but sure as hell likes running the world, why don’t WENAAN companies pay higher wages to Romanians and Bulgarians, why because profit is the only thing that matters never mind the consequences even if they include mass immigration to WENAAN, and please don’t tell me they don’t have enough money, the CEO and shareholders can always lower their EXTREMELY high income and give slightly more to the workers.

  110. avatar
    Ed

    You can take control as a government! With regards to some corporations I cannot agree more with you. MONSANTO is the worlds most evil company and should be dismantled and the CEO put in jail. I agree also with you that I am also disgusted by some of the bonuses thaws CEO’s award themselves. As I said before they are extremely smart people in a very powerful position to create employment!! They know how to create employment and if responsible governments use their brains and take action by hell I don’t know perhaps revoke operating licenses or strike deals that will benefit their people and not just their own pockets.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes that’s what governments should do, regulate business instead of allowing them to act without laws and with impunity. However those rare governments when they do appear they appear as dictatorships in the WENAAN media and already the West is calling for either economic sanctions, or military intervention to help “liberate” the people from these evil dictatorships. Lets take a look at South America, particularly the late president Hugo Chavez, in the Western media he was depicted as an evil tyrannical dictator, who makes himself rich and oppresses his people when in reality he was a good leader who didn’t allow the WENAAN companies to exploit Venezuela’s oil wealth for nothing, nor did he take bribes from WENAAN companies so he himself can be rich, WENAAN can have his oil for free and his people suffer, same with Gaddafi who managed to create a high living standard for his people using the countries oil wealth, and look where he ended up.

    • avatar
      Andrei

      You told that we(I’m Romanian) should kick out your corporations. But why would we want to do that? We want to have your corporations and to be able to work everywhere in the EU. We made a deal about this, you accepted it. The deal also included that we should make the first step and let all your corporations in Romania without paying import taxes and after 7 years, you do your part of the deal, and let us work anywhere. By respecting our part of the deal we already saved a lot of poor westerners. If we wouldn’t have joined EU, most of the western companies wouldn’t have selled anything in the east(Romania and Bulgaria) and some of these corporations would have gone bankrupt, some other would have had to fire some of you guys and other of these companies would have just moved their factories in Romania, because the labor is cheaper. You would probably ask how’s that your companies needed Romania. Well the thing is that your houses were already completely furnished(so you wouldn’t buy a new TV, a new fridge, etc) and everyone already had at least a car and there were enough buildings for everyone, none of these were true for Romania. So you were good workers, bad consumers, that can’t work in a free capitalistic market, so you needed good consumers and you found us.
      The reason you’re not as poor as a Romanian now is because your government was smart enough to let us save you, by opening our market. I understand that now you’re getting cold feet, but a deal is a deal so… deal with it!
      Even though I spoke only about Romania, I think I’m not to wrong if I’m saying that is mostly the same thing with Bulgaria either.

  111. avatar
    R.M.

    Those are exceptions my friend. I heard about americans killing students in schools – does that mean US has less potentia?. Dont be mean. I’ve lived in Romania for 28 years in 3 cities and never had or seen such scenes… Romania is a normal country with normal hard working and kind people. Not mentioning our Software skills – ask Google, Microsoft, etc about how many romanian employees they have. Compare that with bulgarians or west.euro. Peace!

  112. avatar
    R.M.

    Romanians are not Slavs. They are Latin people.

  113. avatar
    R.M.

    Sorry, I meant Slavs not slaves.

  114. avatar
    Ed

    I have to disagree with you on Ghaddafi. He was a tyrant otherwise the local population didn’t start their revolution. Good example of governments who spread the wealth over it’s citizens I would say the UAE, QATAR, KUWAIT and Saudi. I know this since I travel regularly to the gulf region. There are no public debts. The government pays for all their citizens. A bit extreme example but these people never have to work, everything is given to them.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      I think the governments sorry meant monarchs of those countries are even bigger tyrants than Gaddafi, first Gaddafi was secular neither of these kingdoms are especially Saudi Arabia, where woman are not regarded as citizens but as property.

      What was even worse was the recent scandals in the UAE and Qatar where foreign workers had their passports confiscated and were kept as slave labour. As for them not having to work I don’t know, I am not citizen of those countries and this is a situation where I would rather go to live in other African countries than the Arab kingdoms.

  115. avatar
    Ed

    True about the disgusting slavery practices that are happening in the middle east. Our discussion was about governments who take care of their own people. And that’s what they do in the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi.

  116. avatar
    Ed

    My summary about this whole debate is:

    The whole focal point is THE LIFESTYLE OF THE INDIVIDUAL!!! Humans will at all cost search to improve their own lifestyle. No opportunity will be spared, all possibilities exhausted at every price. WENAAN (Western Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand) countries are the ultimate goal/most desirable in the world. Nothing but nothing will be spared in order to achieve moving there. Incl the risk of lives and their own lives. Humans by nature will exploit/abuse to the
    max all possibilities and exhaust resources unless stopped/controlled by force. WENAAN countries have to protect themselves against the unlimited supply of migrants and abuse of their resources. It is in Human nature to do as little as possible for the max gain. All this translates directly into money. Humans can’t be trusted with money. The temptation to benefit themselves is uncontrollable. The only way to control the uncontrollable temptation to increase the lifestyle of the individual is to have consequences in place in case that individual is willing to administer extreme and unacceptable measures to achieve his/her/their goals. In this case here with regards to migration to WENAAN countries which is the ultimate destination for too many in this world the only effective consequence is ultimate border control and illegal migrants to return immediately upon a successful arrival to their point of departure without exception! Again it is human nature which only listens to extreme consequences in order to control their desires. Everything else will fail!! Another question now to ask is how come over time of history WENAAN has managed to develop favorable conditions which support a general good lifestyle that the rest of the world endeavours. Why other countries were unable to develop themselves in this way. Some say and put the blame on WENAAN. One needs to understand that in order to develop a climate to create a good lifestyle, one needs a good economy. How to do that? A country at the end of the day needs to operate nearly like a business. You must have desirable goods and services on offer and to market these on a global scale. Don’t forget that the worst enemy of a good economy is war and uncertainty. War is by far the biggest issue. Where differences of opinion exist in some places war is always looming. We need to be able and learn to settle differences of opinion in a diplomatic way, only then we can control our temptations for worse. In a nutshell, where there is war there is no economy,
    where there is no economy, there is no lifestyle.

    FINALLY WENAAN NEEDS TO PROTECT ITSELF FROM OUT OF CONTROL IMMIGRATION AND NEEDS TO ACT. IT CANNOT ABSORB THE ENTIRE WORLD POPULATION. THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO HAVE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES IN PLACE FOR THE ONE WHO SUCCESSFULLY ATTEMPT.

    FOR THE SAKE OF WESTERN EUROPE THE RESTRICTIONS FOR ROMANIANS AND BULGARIANS MUST STAY IN PLACE!!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      And you are wrong its not just WENAAN, but South Africa and Argentina are also favorites when it comes to emigration from third world countries particularly the middle East and Central Africa.

    • avatar
      Aerfen

      Well said!

    • avatar
      RM

      “Why other countries were unable to develop themselves in this way?” Ummm… How about no: conquest wars to take resources, colonization and slavery in their history – in fact most of them were actually WENAAN victims regarding these three reasons. Some, like Romania, were peaceful people… In fact we kept west safe from Ottoman conquest sometime in history, think about that and the eventual consequences. WENAAN conquered, colonized and took slaves! That’s their primordial success! Develop a country and economy from that and shouldn’t be that hard – but it is not right.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @RM you are right, that is the only reason why WENAAN is successful, colonialism, slavery and exploitation no matter in what form it is or how they cover it up.

    • avatar
      Peter

      I agree 100% very eloquently put, the disparity between the older EU nations and the new accession countries is way too great, all the new EU states from 2004 onwards should never have been allowed to join until they were at near parity economically with the 15 pre-enlargement member states. The attraction of the benefits system is too great!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @Peter the losses for these states greater than the benefits

  117. avatar
    sharon harvey

    yes we should have restrictions, our national health service and social housing and schools are at bursting point. Our taxes would probably go up to support this move !!! Why as a nation are we rolling over and not protesting about this??!!!

    • avatar
      Ed

      I’m with you Sharon. You guys should kick ass like some 10+ years ago with the fuel protests.

  118. avatar
    Mr. B

    How can you explain the fear of getting your car stolen as a Romanian tourist in Bulgaria then? Anyway, neither of the majority of BG and RO people are aggressive. Italians for example in general are much more aggressive.
    And we’re mixing gypsies with romanians again. We have nothing to do with them and their way of living. Please STOP this!

  119. avatar
    RM

    You’ve heard 3 news about kidnapping and make an opinion about the whole country? That means I could tell In a sentence “Italians are Mafia”. You as well have thiefs, criminals and kidnappers but I don’t make an opinion about all of you in regards to that. Oh, and I’m not racist, but those criminals you’ve mentioned are usually gypsies not Romanians. They have Romanian citizenship and yes are more in Romania (history can tell why). All Europe should be involved in gypsies education, that’s a solution – but then again, there will be always some criminals (Romanians, Italians, Americans, it doesn’t matter, we’ll all have them).

  120. avatar
    John Smith

    @RM you are right all of Europe should be making an effort in educating Roma and helping them integrate into society. Unfortunately all that happens is Romania and Bulgaria get bullied by Western Europe about how they treat Roma but when the Roma does what they do in Romania and Bulgaria in France or Germany all of a sudden its a different story, and they have to be deported to BG and RO.

  121. avatar
    John Smith

    Scandinavian countries have even more discrimination than Austria, remember Breivik, yes the guy who killed all those innocent children, his party just won the elections in Norway.

  122. avatar
    John Smith

    If they are jealous, its simple they will sanction Norway, call them communist, a dictatorship, and go in to free “them” blah blah like they did with Libya.

  123. avatar
    NSM

    Well.It is true I am here in UK and also have a job in a black market. I want to contribute to the state of pension or H.M revenue and be possible for me to pay the right tax but it’s impossible because of the restrictions.There is a lot of propaganda against Romania and Bulgaria.But any country have corruption and also criminals.That mean you can’t say all the people are.Ex:I was watching BBC news and I see a British man born and bred in UK have killed 2 officer in Manchester.The question is all the British are like this.NO.It is very hard to see all this propaganda against Romania and Bulgaria and to be honest made me think it discrimination against this 2 country.

  124. avatar
    John Smith

    These countries difficulties come from joining the European family, because such a family doesn’t exist or maybe it does with the Roman hierarchy using their “divide and conquer” principle accordingly.

    Bulgaria is as similar to Russian as English is to German, i.e. there are not very similar other than a few common words such as Grad for city, and some words having the same Slavonic roots. As for Bulgarian and Macedonian these two languages are very similar and are almost fully mutually intelligible. Bulgarian and Serb are also very similar and partially mutually intelligible, though less so than Bulgarian and Macedonian, Croatian is almost the same as Serbian, whereas for Slovene I don’t know it is more distant, sharing more similarities with Czech and Slovakian.

  125. avatar
    John Smith

    Selling off everything to foreign companies is the source of all the problems with these two countries. Kicking the IMF out is the solution.

  126. avatar
    John Smith

    Exactly why are you in the EU.

  127. avatar
    jdemii

    I agree with what you said except for 2 things:
    1. Romanian is a latin language
    2. The US is highly overrated

    And after having lived in 2 different western countries for a longer period of time, I feel as though that they’re ‘old’ countries .. with old mentalities, very reluctant to change, maybe getting a bit too comfortable after 50 years of prosperity to have that even remotely threatened by anything or anyone. But the truth is that world is changing (let’s not forget about 1 billion Chinese slowly but surely invading the ENTIRE WORLD, not just the UK) , and they fail to see the positive aspects of that change.
    I believe that both economically and socially speaking there can be so many win-win scenarios but people are just not of the proper mindset.

  128. avatar
    R.M.

    @Jdemii – Romanian is a latin language, please study that a bit. It’s proved and it’s not quantum physics, really, there is no doubt… Of course as all the other ones has a lot of influences but its base is latin.

  129. avatar
    jdemii

    @R.M. :) that is exactly what I said

  130. avatar
    jdemii

    @R.M. Hold your horses, that is exactly what I said, maybe it wasn’t very clear.
    Should I write it in Romanian? :)

  131. avatar
    John Smith

    Unfortunately it is only talk, they want you in the EU so they can control you, and keep you as poor as you are now by owning all your countries assets, and exploiting your country as cheap labour.

  132. avatar
    John Smith

    @Mihail A “normal European way of living” is not a very good way of living or a very high standard happy life, at least compared to America, Australia or even South Africa. If you ever get the chance to live in a Western European republic you will see what I am talking about.

    As for Greece having better maintained roads, Greece has less snow and snow is very damaging to roads.

  133. avatar
    John Smith

    I have a different period and it is the post cold war period which is a factor in the wealth of the countries today. I also think neo-colonialism has something to do with it. Bulgaria, Romania weren’t average developed European countries during the cold war period, however once the cold war ended they sold off all their assets to foreign companies mainly British, German, French and American companies which don’t pay taxes and pay starvation wages to the people. Serbia was wealthy in Yugoslavia but it’s problem arised from the Yugoslav wars in the 90s. As for Greece it was also a developed country, in-fact the most developed but it has now been ruined by the banks tricks, and they are trying to do the same to Greece what they did to Bulgaria and Romania, force them to sell off all their assets to Western companies. Even middle-eastern Ottoman colonies e.g. Iraq, Syria, Egypt were doing good and had a relatively high level of developed, but that is before we all know what happened and who caused it. Hungary and Croatia are not much better off than Romania and Bulgaria, even if they are it has to do with WHO owns your assets and HOW MUCH they pay to your workers and HOW MUCH money goes to the country, why wasn’t Hungary and Croatia forced to go through a 100% privatization process which Bulgaria and Romania had to.

    The only rich British colonies are those which have been ethnically cleansed of their indigenous population such as USA, Canada and Australia. Other colonies such as South Africa are rich but only for the middle class and up, the working class is in a level of poverty which you have never seen before, you are rich in comparison, other colonies such as India and Nigeria are even worse since they have higher populations and most of the population is in poverty and there is generally no middle class. Again this has to do with WHO owns the country’s assets and HOW MUCH they pay to the workers and the country. Ask yourself those questions and you will know the answer.

  134. avatar
    John Smith

    sorry I meant “I have a different hypothesis*”, I was thinking ahead and hence I typed period by mistake.

  135. avatar
    Cris P

    Schengen Scandal in key business : water, banks , gas and cement – not enough to accept the Roma in France?

    French business seized key positions in the Romanian economy and more with the “blessing ” of politics .

    While French-Romanian relations goes back to a dead end, French capital in Romania remains an ” oasis ” of wealth and profit. French capital holds key positions in the Romanian economy – banks ( the second largest bank by assets in the system , BRD – SocGen ) , gas , automotive, cement , telecom . Many of these businesses – whether they have been completed at the time of Ciorbea , Radu Vasile , Nastase or Tăriceanu – had the “blessing ” of politics , because of the decision of large privatizations in the past , in addition to economic reasons , a political valence , with guidance still unknown to Romania, jungle of European affairs . But French officials have used the great power status of France to support its French business interests in countries emerging from communism.

    Now when joining Schengen has become a purely technical approach ( you must secure the borders ) a purely political , Romania does not have the support of the partner who thought the most and which relied more political : France .

    It is no doubt that French investments alongside other foreign investments have greatly helped Romania , its GDP , its budget through taxes they pay , they created jobs.

    But benefits from the presence in Romania is as . The main 50 French companies present in Romania had in 2012 a turnover of 45 billion lei ( 10 billion euros) and a combined gross profit of 2.5 billion lei , which means a profit margin of 5% given that the level of 650,000 companies in Romania the average profit margin is 1.5 % . Almost all increased in crisis.

    Romania’s accession to the Schengen area has become a political issue 100%. After an unexpected opposition in the past, in the time of Nicholas Sarkozy of France against Romania’s accession to Schengen , hexagon mellowed their criticisms and was for membership in stages.

    Cutting edge oppozition of France ‘s Francois Hollande to the Schengen accession of Romania and Bulgaria overwhelmingly keeps the electoral logic ( in France, 2014 is an election year to election municipal elections and elections to the Senate EP ) for it is impossible to make a connection between Roma from France and Schengen accession , as do French politicians .

    Yesterday French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius tried to introduce into question an element of ” objectivity ” arguing that Romania’s borders would be well secured .

    As a result , he says, the accession of Romania and Bulgaria borders poses a problem because they are allowed, and once past the border a clandestine immigrant can get to the heart of the continent .

    Hard supported this idea as long as , on several occasions, the Commission stated that Romania’s borders are secure, so even French officials admitted in the past, including the current Prime Minister Jean -Marc Ayrault . Moreover, border security has cost 1 billion euros, and the money came from European giant EADS , which handled the project.

    The most visible ” politicized ” privatizations were done in time CDR and Adrian Nastase . And the most ” covered ” episode happened in the time of Adrian Nastase during the visit of Prime Minister Jean -Pierre Raffarin , after Traian Basescu accused the French Prime Minister that “came to take the mystery ” hint to the ” privatization ” with big question marks.

    Despite these accusations, in the fall of 2004 was sold to South DISTRIGAZ Gas de France , and the French group Vinci has signed for the construction of Azuga -Brasov motorway , approach failed a few years later , although the contract was a huge amount at the time – 1 , 2 billion. Not only with France this has happened – the contract with Bechtel was ” strategic ” also .

    In the reign of Radu Vasile , BRD SocGen was sold (1999) and , in time, became the second largest bank by assets in the system . SocGen bought 51 % of the Romanian Bank for Development , but during the Nastase government a few years later, he received another 7.3 % stake to just 43 million, though the stock market was double the value of the package and buyers not lacking.

    If Renault came in Pitesti in 1999 , this was because in 1966 , also by a political decision, Nicolae Ceausescu ( Charles de Gaulle just visit Romania ) decided to build a factory with Renault and no other company stated the race .

    During the presidency of Sarkozy , former French president tried to sell Romanian important business , but crisis or misunderstandings between leaders , they were forgotten. Particularly hard hit was the company Areva ( nuclear industry ) , which, although not won anything in Romania , hoping to get the contract to build the French technology of reactors 3 and 4 at Cernavoda proposal that Sarkozy made ​​public in 2009 and Basescu refused. Later, Gaz de France has withdrawn from 4 billion contract to build reactors 3 and 4 at Cernavoda ( 9% Energonuclear owned company that would carry out the project ) .

    During Sarkozy’s more French business suffered in Romania . Colas , who built the highway section Medgidia NPP lost the contract. Consortium , Vinci (France) and Aktor (Greece ) , which would be followed to build the highway section Azuga – Brasov, inexplicably withdrew unilaterally . Not all businesses in Romania are cord -related political decision , many have benefited from this support.

    Now the largest 50 companies majority-owned by French shareholders had 2012 turnover of 45 billion lei in Romania . Last year only four companies in the top 50 had losses , the rest was profit .

    The French have in Romania four companies with turnover of more than 4bn of 17 companies from Romania who manage to exceed this threshold. They have the second largest bank in Romania – BRD – and fifth insurance company – Groupama .

  136. avatar
    Ed

    Sorry for multiple posts with the same link. Internet delays

  137. avatar
    Florina

    Romanian and Bulgarian are just unfair treated in EU. They’ve been let down by all in EU! Immigration is not a good excuse for other countries to deny work access and others for those 2 countries. They are being racist towards Romania and Bulgaria. I strongly recommend as these 2 countries to be fully accepted with rights and not just words and promises!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      I strongly recommend these two countries leave the EU, tell the West to to shove their “missile defense shields” and “cooperation on matters such as Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan” and “open trade corridors” it up their asses.

  138. avatar
    muhammad akmal

    hi
    i think that it is a bad thing to close the doors for only romanian and bulgarians it is a ego in rich countries.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes it’s a bad thing especially since the West may close the doors but BG and RO might be the ones to lock them and it will be a move the West regrets especially if Russia is the one to unlock those doors.

  139. avatar
    altea

    I am a citizen of Romania, but I am starting to feel ashamed of it.
    When I meet people from other parts of the world, I am envious that in their countries the law is enforced, and that corruption does not rule everything.
    Once I believed in a new beginning for my country, but the dream seems to be gone. Now we are derided by civilized society.
    Our children see the deaths of animals on the streets. It hurts them… It affects them, perhaps forever. The killing of dogs divides our society and the people – some protect, some attack.
    Other countries dealt well with similar situations, but although Romania had the financial means to do it, we all know where the money went. There is no real management in my country anymore, just apathy and corruption.
    I want to be proud of my country. I want honesty to replace corruption. I want politicians who respect life – people’s lives and animals’ lives. I want to live in a society where there is justice and integrity. These are the simple, basic requirements of civilization, and we have lost these.Until Romania will become a civilized country does not want to benefit from the same advantages as the other countries.So please,let us to the edge of the world where we belong.
    The implementation of Romania’s ‘extermination program’ (“extermination” was the word that they themselves had used during the debate in the parliament) has produced worldwide condemnation and a perception that Romania is a country which introduces medieval practices and governs in a draconian mode. The Romanian government has brought shame to Romania as a whole – the implementation of their ‘slaughter law’ has very negatively affected Romania’s image politically and so many other levels.
    The good people of Romania not only suffer under the consequences of the “slaughter law” which has polarized their society and made it dangerously divisive with half the population aggressing, and the other half defending, but they feel as if they were losing their pride.
    I want to be proud again when I say that I am a citizen of Romania.

    • avatar
      Andrei

      Dude… really? Do you even… bacon?

  140. avatar
    Martin Schofield

    It should be extended indefinitely. We are FULL UP and creaking at the seams.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Why not just scrap the EU entirely instead.

  141. avatar
    Alexa

    By not allowing Romanians and Bulgarians to have full working rights, the “modern slavery” is encouraged. In construction, instead of working for £50-£100/day, they are working for £30-£35/day, if not less. How do we call this then?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      That’s the whole point of BG and RO being in the EU, number 1 to keep those two countries ass-licker to Western Europe, and the USA and to use their people as modern slaves.

  142. avatar
    John Smith

    Maybe because the name Europe originated in Greece, maybe you should rename the EU because apparently it is from Orient express, the number 2 Turkey. But Europe doesn’t mean civilization, Europe means colonialism, slavery and exploitation of others.

  143. avatar
    Monsiuer

    The UK is growing increasingly eurosceptic.. letting Bulgaria and Romania into the travelling rights will be the icing on the cake. So yes, let them in, and that’ll be the start of our leaving of the European Union.

    What to Bulgaria and Romania contribute to the EU? All they do is take take take take take. They’re scrounger countries – at least Estonia, and the other two baltics actually contribute something.

    In the UK, our unemployment levels are at one of our highest. We can’t have another influx of people in our great nation.

    Stay out, Bulgarians and Romanians.

  144. avatar
    Monsiuer

    The UK is growing increasingly eurosceptic.. letting Bulgaria and Romania into the travelling rights will be the icing on the cake. So yes, let them in, and that’ll be the start of our leaving of the European Union.

    What to Bulgaria and Romania contribute to the EU? All they do is take take take take take. They’re scrounger countries – at least Estonia, and the other two baltics actually contribute something.

    In the UK, our unemployment levels are at one of our highest. We can’t have another influx of people in our great nation.

    Stay out, Bulgarians and Romanians. Nobody wants you.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes let them and that would be the start of the EU’s demise and the return of the Eastern Bloc. Romania and Bulgaria were two prosperous countries before 1989 but since then all the West has done is take, take and take from these countries amongst others in Africa.

      What has BP and Anglo-mining contributed to the world, absolutely nothing other than groundwater/soil contaminations and oil spills. Take you and your corporations out nobody wants you and the US in which you live in the shadow of.

    • avatar
      Monsiuer

      Yeah no they weren’t.. they’re just places for cheap slums.. nothing more.

      The UK is one of the greatest nations in the world. No discussion there. If you ask somebody where Bulgaria and Romania is on the map, 98% won’t have a clue. They’re just nations nobody cares about.. nations that bring nothing to the world apart from poverty.

    • avatar
      John Smithg

      USA is the greatest nation in the world, Britain is just its shadow, always ready to lick its ass but never has the balls to let’s say invade Syria on its own.

      Yes they were prosperous, and developed because they were aligned with the world’s largest and most resource rich country, and they will be again when the UK leaves the EU hence causing the EU to fall apart and causing all of Eastern Europe to return to Russia.

      Countries like the UK, Germany and France are tinnnnny countries, have absolutely no resources, are 100 percent dependent on the world, if you ask 98% percent of the world to point to the UK or France, or Germany they wont have a clue but everyone knows where China is, everyone knows where Russia, everyone knows where USA is because these are BIG powerful countries with global influence and not just ass-lickers to a larger power like Britain, Germany and France are. I mean seriously where would Britain be without America.

      Meanwhile I would be prepared to make a deal with the Brits, even though we hate you since you ruined our country because you were jealous at its prosperity (prior to 1994) which Britain will never reach, we will take all Bulgarians and Romanians and exchange them with all the Bantu migrants from central Africa. Romanians and Bulgarians are hard-working people, there are many of them here in this country which has absolutely no social benefits.

      Romanians and Bulgarians don’t bring poverty, on the contrary its England which brought poverty to all of its colonies, including USA and South Africa. These two countries only became prosperous after Britain was kicked back to its minuscule island. In the case of SA it was us Afrikaaners who built everything there is today, with the help of Eastern Europeans and some Indians, not Brits who just raped the land for its resources or the Bantu who just leach on society and do nothing but complain.

  145. avatar
    jdemii

    Monsiuer > That is one of the most ignorant, head-up-ones’s-a$$ kind of comment I have seen in years. the UK has built its so-called empire by profiting from other poor and ignorant peoples (and no this is not a mistake, I meant to say peoples), and you dare judge a poor country. I really hope you sink to the depths of poverty one day and realize how the world works from a poor man’s perspective you ignorant a$$h0l3

    • avatar
      John Smith

      He will sink to the depths of poverty, when his dream of independence may turn out to be just like Ukraine’s dream of independence, i.e. wishing to return. The small British isles don’t have the resources nor the capacity to be independent in this world we live today, they either have to be in the EU or united with the USA.

      That’s exactly how Britain was built, exploitation of the people it conquered. India wasn’t poor before Britain, everybody wanted to go to India.

  146. avatar
    Monsiuer

    I’m not even British.. I’m Polish.. haha.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Then stop speaking on behalf of Brits, you wouldn’t like me speaking on behalf of the Polish. But I suspected you weren’t British since you were spewing out your inferiority complex and trying to convince yourself of something because you feel inferior to Western Europeans so you are picking on the poorer Eastern Europeans.

  147. avatar
    Monsiuer

    And, FYI, without Great Britain there’d be no Bulgaria or Romania.. only Germany.

    The people of Bulgaria don’t seem to mind coming to Great Britain for free handouts, do they?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Britain didn’t save Bulgaria from the Germans, RUSSIA, yet another blindly dismissing Russia’s involvement, saved Bulgaria (Poland and the Ukraine to) from Germany dumbass. That’s why Poland, Bulgaria and Romania were communist and part of the 2nd world, whereas the USA, not little Britain, saved the Western Europeans and hence they became part of the Capitalist 1st world.

      Funny you say Bulgarians don’t mind going to the UK for handouts yet there are restrictions against them, so either your comment is total BS, or the UK somehow gives handouts and benefits to Bulgarians and Romanians but doesn’t allow them to work but illogically complains that if restrictions are lifted they will only go to Britain for handouts.

      I seem to have noticed that the UK and West Europe does not respect Bulgaria and Romania, yet they constantly kiss Ukraine and Georgia’s asses. Could it be that since Bulgaria and Romania are safely separated from Russia under the wing of the EU and they still think people are not looking in that direction whereas Ukraine and Georgia are outside the EU and are still in doubts as to which path to choose especially Ukraine which one second is pro-EU, the next second it cancels negotiations with NATO and extends the lease on the Russian naval base on the Black Sea.

    • avatar
      R.M.

      @Monsiuer – I believe you think said something intelligent but it’s the most stupid thing I’ve read on this forum so far. Ha ha ha! Learn some history – it’s not that hard you know… Or read John’s reply for a free quick lesson. Or better… Go to sleep.

  148. avatar
    Monsiuer

    And, FYI, without Great Britain there’d be no Bulgaria or Romania.. only Germany.

    The people of Bulgaria don’t seem to mind coming to Great Britain for free handouts, do they? After it was built on cheating the poor.

  149. avatar
    jdemii

    @John Smith : don’t even bother with this guy, he probably knows as well as we do that the UK was very unhappy when Poland entered the EU and started “invading” the UK like Romanians and Bulgarians are allegedly going to now. (This is just one link for the amusement of all the other readers >> http://www.worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/jumping-queues-eating-carp-what-brits-really-think-of-polish-invasion/polish-immigration-britain-employment-jobs/c1s10982/#.Umrfx5TIxss) . Not to mention how poles are being frowned upon in Germany.
    He either does suffer from the inferiority complex like many other immigrants I’ve met, or he’s just trolling because he has nothing better to do. I really hope it’s the latter, because at this day in age, making arrogant assumptions like the ones he’s made without an ounce of fact is really pathetic.

  150. avatar
    Belbo

    Why do you want to come to Holland, The United Kingdom, France, Spain, Italy and Germany? Do you really envy us so much? Or is it because of our benefit systems?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      They don’t want to go to those places, it’s just your governments which are constantly bitching about some mythical 27 million Romanians and Bulgarians which will flood those countries. In reality neither Bulgarians nor Romanians will be better off if they go to those countries, because if they do nobody will be willing to hire them for a higher wage than what they get paid in BG or RO, but the cost of living in the UK, France, Spain, Italy and Germany is MUCH higher than BG or RO and the average standard of living is not much higher, I’ve been to those countries and my expectations were (due to the western media) that the Western European standard of living was as high as the American, Canadian or Australia standard of living, hence I was very surprised to find out that people were living in the same tiny one-roomed commie blocks that you would find in Eastern Europe, almost as if there is no difference except that in the East people own their on-roomed apartment, whereas in the West people pay rent for it for their entire lives.

      The most desired immigration country is Australia and to a lesser extent Canada and New Zealand, reason being each of those countries are welcoming to hard-working, skilled and educated people which most Bulgarians and Romanians are, they don’t discriminate based on where you were born or what is the colour of your skin/hair/eyes etc.

  151. avatar
    Belbo

    EVERY Country has it’s lower class parts. Including Romania and Bulgaria, which has slums for lower class, and poverty for middle class. Nor have you ever been to the USA, which is filled with ghettos and poverty stricken areas.

    If Western Europe is so bad, why do you all want to be able to get work ( benefits ) over here? Surely you’d rather just stay in Romania if it’s equal? Why would you come to a country where nobody wants you? Feel free to go to Australia ( a British commonwealth country ) or Canada( another commonwealth country! ) and New Zealand ( what a surprise! Another commonwealth nation! ). Without the United Kingdom, France, or Holland there’d be no NZ, AU, or CA. Without western Europe the world would be a much darker place. The internet you’re using right now… A British design. That language you’re writing in now.. English.

    We pay rent because we can afford it. Our countries have worked hard to earn a high lifestyle for it’s people. End of.

    • avatar
      jdemii

      Crash course on why people (Normal people – I’m excluding
      criminals from this because I do not consider them people, I consider them scum, whichever their nationality may be) change countries:

      1. A better living standard for them and their family (better paycheck, less violence, better education and public services)
      2. A change in their lives (not necessarily related to money)
      3. Curiosity (they want to try it out and see how it’s like) – mainly students
      4. A good career prospective in their field of work (better equipment, better access to information, better chances of moving up the career ladder etc)

      Now you tell me if that is something that does not apply to all human beings.

      And tell me again how a person that pays his/her taxes and behaves in a respectful way towards others should not be let in a country because …. because it was not built by his ancestors? How primitive is that? How am I not, by actively contributing to a community not helping to build and sustain the country? The only reason the citizens of that country would not like me despite all those things, is because they’re racist or nationalistic and afraid of competition in their field of work.
      You should make more stringent welfare laws if you’re afraid foreigners are coming to live off it. Problem solved.
      Period. This is about fear and discrimination, nothing more. At least have the courage to admit it.

    • avatar
      R.M.

      You are unbelievable arrogant. That’s not relevant – there are great inventors in all countries – that changed the world. For example some great contributions romanians did: jet engine, insulin, fountain pen, cybernetics, etc. Romanian is the second language spoken in Microsoft. Our country has one of the fastest internet in the world (top 3). And how many languages do you speak? I guess only English. You think you are superior or something but you are not. And don’t generalize because most of romanians are not willing to migrate to your country or to migrate at all. We are so different and as poor as you think we are, we are happy people. And I believe more educated and harder workers than you… EU sucks because exactly of such mentalities. Close your borders and live happy you alone. And take your sh@ty companies & products with you because we don’t need them.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      You’re not listening but repeating the same old tune like a child. NOBODY wants to go to the UK, France or Belgium or the Netherlands or whatever, they only go to those countries because its easier when inside the EU, rather than applying for immigration point systems and visas which are long-winded.

      I’m not talking about the lower class parts, I’m talking about the middle class parts which are the same one-roomed commie-block apartments found in Eastern Europe, houses in Europe especially decent sized middle class houses like those found in America are only a luxury for the EXTREME rich like Bill Gates or Tom Cruise. And on top of that these small, low-quality, kitsch apartments cost more than mansions even palaces in America or Australia.

      People don’t stay in Romania because after 1989 they went from state-owned enterprises which paid a decent wage to its people to privately owned enterprises by Western corporations, these new owners paid and continue to pay starvation wages to its people. That’s the only reason, they are used as salves by your “hard-working” stock holders.

      It’s funny you only acknowledge the work of Western Europe and don’t acknowledge who gave Western Europe civilizations. In the same I wont acknowledge that Western Europe contributed to any modern day inventions such as Internet and I will just call it all American, even though the people were Western Europeans (and Jews mostly) it was pioneered in America. Without the Arabs, Indians, Persians and Babylonians we wouldn’t have numbers or Mathematics i.e. we wouldn’t have anything, the Arabs (again) actually created the first form of civilization and trade (money), the religion you have is a religion created by Jews, democracy came from Greece, without Nikola Tesla (a Serb/Romanian Eastern European) there would be no electrical grids or any modern electronic invention, without Russia there would be no modern physics i.e. again we wouldn’t have anything, if it weren’t for Russia (again) we wouldn’t have satellites hence no cellphones, no GPS, no INTERNET and no real international communication. Not saying Western Europe didn’t contribute anything but it’s wrong to claim everything for yourself just like its wrong for America to claim all the contribution of European and Jewish immigrants entirely as her own.

      I’m speaking in English because the British Empire went around the world and forced its language on everyone from China (Hong Kong) to India to South Africa to North America, to Singapore etc, nothing to be proud of, not even the ex-Ottoman colonies speak Turkish.

      Yes you can afford rent but that’s not why you pay it, you pay rent because you can’t afford to own property and since you have grown up with a slave worker mentality/culture you don’t mind building somebody else’s mansion.

      Every country has worked hard, even the Eastern Euro countries, I’ve been there and have seen the infrastructure for myself. And I gotta say it was impressive seeing everything that was built, even more impressive than certain Western European countries, of course it’s decaying now since it has practically not been maintained since 1989.

    • avatar
      R.M.

      @John – very well said. Your knowledge is admirable!

    • avatar
      John Smith

      @Jdemii It’s not benefits they are afraid, they are afraid immigrants will work harder for less than them.

  152. avatar
    R.M.

    Are you afraid your job will be taken from you? Why’s that? Because a romanian could be more qualified than you?! Oh I know… make a company in Romania, give shi&y wage and let them do the hard work… Than say: we are so great and enlightened and blah blah blah. You have one life, this is one Earth, we are all humans – stop thinking like 300 years ago. Oh and one more thing – maybe you’d want to stop wasting such amounts of food (UK is nr 1 on that) and let people in poor african countries eat something, Ok?

  153. avatar
    Belbo

    Actually, R.M, I speak not only English, but Spanish, French and Estonian. We waste food because we have access to it.. We’re second in foreign aid so don’t start on saying how we let people starve, because we don’t.

    If you ask somebody where Bulgaria is on a map, nobody will know, that’s because nobody cares. You provide nothing to the European Union, all you do it take take take!

    If you hate Western Europe so much, stay the hell away from it. We don’t want you here anyway. You think the European Union owes you something.. well guess what? We don’t owe you jack shat.

    You’re all like a horde of piranhas, I won’t be subjected to bunches of you on me at once. Make your mind up who is speaking to me. Have fan debating amongst your selves.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      You seem to care a lot about these two countries which apparently no one cares about. Even I after I told you twice, and I will tell for the third time now, NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO YOUR SHITTY SMALL RAINY COLD ISLAND, what do you think the UK is Utopia? Even SA is more of a utopia.

      I know far more Bulgarians and Romanians living in SA, Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, and those aren’t countries famous for their generous social benefits system, last time I checked they have absolutely none, hence you can’t be telling me they are just lazy and want to live off benefits. But like RM pointed out you and I both now that is total BS, because its simple to adjust the benefits system, its obvious you are scared someone else will take your job, someone who is more educated, more skilled and with a higher work ethic.

      I don’t understand the psychology you end and monsieur have. I told you countless number of times, if you want Bulgarians and Romanians to stay away from you, you stay away from them, i.e. let them leave the EU and NATO, and take your corporations out of their countries, that means stop drilling for oil and stop destroying mountains for gold in Romania. It’s that simple yet your so called “intelligent”, “educated”, “Western European” brain is too stupid to understand what I, RM and the likes have been telling you.

      I don’t understand where you get the idea that RO and BG want anything from Western Europe, it’s actually Western Europe which thinks Eastern Europe owes it something. Western Europe thinks Eastern Europe owes it troops to fight their war in Afghanistan, or thinks Eastern Europe owes them support for Syria and support against Russia. Eastern Europe doesn’t owe you jack sh*t if it were up to me I would withdraw it from NATO and the EU immediately and commence with a pro-Russian/Chinese/BRICS policy. Russia and China can offer way more than the EU which does nothing but complain and whine like a little girl, it only has balls when its under the wing of the US, (e.g. France waiting for the US instead of commencing with the strike), on its own it’s a coward which will be consumed easily without the US.

      You know what’s funny, you talking as though you are debt-free yet America have been defending your country for over a century and Americans are now sick of you thinking America owes you something that they must constantly defend whilst you don’t even bother to develop your own military.

      If you don’t want a piranha

  154. avatar
    RM

    What the heck do we take from EU, really? You take from us big time! Like our resources – they are all owned by your companies, including human capital. You are the piranhas if you put it that way. We don’t hate nobody – you hate us – so why in the hell have you taken us in EU in the first place? We have no benefits from being there – only you have! So accept us completely or drop us out completely! Make your mind, because all parts should benefit from a partnership.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Best to just drop you completely, Belbo is completely unaware of the geopolitical importance these two countries carry. Western Europe is actually dependent on them for its neo-colonial wars because it is running sh*t low on resources, if it weren’t for these two countries Russia would have stopped them in its tracks.

      I personally would prefer it if Romania and Bulgaria were not involved in these wars, and did not provide any sort of assistance to the West, i.e. no military bases/airspaces, no naval bases on the Black Sea, no troops in Afghanistan. Why should these countries actually put themselves at risk, getting on the wrong side of muslims, tomorrow they could be victim to a terrorist attack because they supported the West, and all for absolutely nothing, so they can drown in poverty, and endure restrictions similar to those Black people had to endure during Apartheid, and if that’s not enough the arrogance and the superiority complexes of the likes of Belbo who thinks it is granted that you will always serve him. No wonder the Scottish are going to have an independence referendum.

  155. avatar
    John Smith

    But at least everyone knows where the UK is, which I will prove by going to American schools (who probably have never learnt that a world exist beyond the USA), showing them a blank map and asking them to point to the location of the UK, lol.

    • avatar
      Limbidis Arian

      That’s mean. Most americans don’t know where the US is even, never mind “Yurop”

  156. avatar
    Belbo

    THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      So first you wanted to stop Bulgarian and Romanian immigration, but now you have a problem with them leaving the EU, what’s the problem? Or you just have an inferiority complex knowing your small pathetic island is worthless in this world, it is just a servant to the USA, like a puppy on a leash.

      The only country which will burn under Russia fire is yours and the rest of Western Europe, or should I say freeze during the winter because only one European country has real, quick, cheap access to large reserves of gas and that is Russia.

      What happened to nobody knowing where Bulgaria and Romania are, what happened to “nobody cares about Romania and Bulgaria”, now all of a sudden they are hated by the world, lol you are such an inconsistent joke, what’s up with your obsession with these two countries, you jealous of them or what? Let me tell you who is truly hated by the whole world, Britain is hated by the whole world whilst nobody knows about Romania or Bulgaria everyone knows about Britain and all the horrible crimes it has committed before the 19th century, during the 19th century, during the 20th century, and now during the 21st century, do I need to list them all: Colonialism and genocide of native people across Asia, Africa, Australia, America, invading countries such as Argentina which just want what is theirs back, invading and leveling countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya. English barbarians were famous burning each other on the stake and pulling out each others intestines (during Elizabeth the 1st’s rule) because one was Protestant and the other Catholic or was it the other way round I don’t know and I don’t care. My point is Africa hates Britain, India hates Britain, China hates Britain, South America hates, even Europe hates Britain, Ireland hates Britain, even the USA hates Britain I mean why else would they abandon their British identity for some foreign American identity and seek independence from Britain, lol. Even white South Africans (Boers) hate Britain.

      The USA has never once defended Britain, of course it wouldn’t help cowardly when invading weak, powerless and bankrupt states such as Argentina fighting for a few sh*tty islands, but it defended defenseless Britain from Russia during the cold war and is still the bulk contributor of the NATO alliance of which Britain is just a leach. Of course it isn’t entirely without pay, Britain has to pay its due course and that is kiss the US’s ass when it comes to Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or the Middle East. But when the UK isn’t under the safe-wing of the US it can’t do sh*t, it can’t even drop a few bombs on a piss-weak war-torn Syria, too scared to confront Russia or Iran, too scared to enter the embassy of another piss-weak poor country Ecuador and arrest Julian Assange.

      If Scotland leaves it will be free of the UK’s huge debt which is the second largest in the world, and is currently 3.5x its GDP, so I doubt Scotland is much of a leach since what does Britain have to leach on other than IMF loans.

      Romania is not the one invaded by Albania. It’s the UK which is currently being invaded by Albanian Mafia, gangs, terrorists and human/organ traffickers, and what is the UK doing about it … jack sh*t.

      I look forward to the day Romania and Bulgaria leave Europe, there markets would not plummet exactly the opposite they would finally be free from the EUSSR cage and open to cheaper, more productive and more attractive Russian, Chinese, Indian and South American markets, at least they have something to offer such as oil, gas and other natural resources whereas all the EU can offer is expensive, inefficient solar panels and shale gas which only releases a few farts from the ground, turns land into desert, and require more energy to extract than the output extracted. Actually their markets plummeted since they joined the EU and are continuing to plummet that must be saying something.

  157. avatar
    Belbo

    THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

  158. avatar
    jdemii

    @Belbo>>> Indeed, Lolll!!! Do you know who wants them in the EU? The EU itself. So as long as it does, if you don’t like the EU’s decision, I suggest YOU find a way to leave the EU, nobody wants people like you anyway spreading hate on behalf of an entire nation. Is that the mark of civilized behavior these days?

    What are you basing you allegations on, anyway? What you see on TV? Some story you’ve heard? How much contact have you even had with people of those 2 nations that makes you generalize like that?

    Or are you just trolling ?

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes he is a troll. Someone who repeats the same thing over and over again is definitely a troll.

  159. avatar
    John Smith

    @Belbo I read your comment on the email LOL. By the way it seems like you really want Bulgaria and Romania to remain in the EU, constantly trying to convince to stay “Russia will burn you”, “your markets will plummet”, What happened to “no one cared about Romania and Bulgaria”, you seem to be obsessed with them.

    As for China at least they make something, whereas the USA, UK and the Netherlands manufacture absolutely nothing and export absolutely nothing. The only income they get is from their corporations which leach on the work and resources of other countries, good think Chavez kicked BP out of Venezuela, there will be many more like him to come.

    • avatar
      John Smith

      Yes he is a troll. Someone who repeats the same thing over and over again is definitely a troll.

  160. avatar
    John Smith

    P.S. Nobody wants your Europe (soon to be Eurabia) either, What is Europe anyway a tiny peninsula of Asia.

  161. avatar
    Stephen.

    Yet another article about us Romanians and Bulgarians being hated by W. Europe. Frankly I’m sick of this. Yes I’m Romanian, and yes I wanted to come to UK (keep in mind i said “wanted”), but not for “stealing” your precious jobs, but simply to change countries, live a different lifestyle and see different things and architecture. I didn’t wanted to come there in order to work, I just wanted to live there for about 2 years and experience the country etc. I got enough money to live happily wherever I want in U.K, and I’m only 22 (not bragging, just a stating a fact). So don’t tell me we Romanians are stupid and uneducated, since most of your softwares that you are using on your computers are made by us.

    So in the end after all this controversial stories for the past months, about us not being welcomed in your precious country, I’m happy to say I don’t even care anymore, the point of being a part of EU is totally crap right now, and is even hurting most of us (Romanians and Bulgarians) instead of helping us. I know many brits and germans living here in Romania, running their own business and they are happy about it, but doing the same thing in reverse is somehow outrageous right?

    Is the same with the U.S, they have freedom of movement and visa free entrance in all the europe, yet us Romanians (don’t know about Bulgarians) can’t even think of trying to go to their country without entering all sorts of visa lotteries and such…

    Most of Romanians are even saying how better it was 20+ years ago when communism was in place and I agree. We are now the money pit of europe,us, canada. Almost all of our resources got sold to big corporations by our stupid and greedy goverment.

    In the end, i’m looking to retire (yea at 22) somewhere in Asia, they will have the most powerful cities (in terms of economy and population) in the world in a few years (Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei), and I can put this crappy E.U union thing behind me, even tho I love many European countries, and I visited most of them, sadly I can’t even start to think about moving to one of them without knowing how people will react when I tell them I’m a Romanian.

    • avatar
      Limbidis Arian

      Incearca Hong Kong, este superb..daca esti fan al traiului “rapid” :)

  162. avatar
    jdemii

    @Stephen. >> I can confirm after a total 4 years living in 2 different ”great” European nations and a lot of shorter trips all over the world (either studying or working) – so living a perfectly normal and law-abiding life – that I intend on changing countries again, because I want to see as much of the world as I can, and I believe with all my heart that there is no greater learning experience in life than living abroad.

    I have been subject to discrimination many times and in many ways, despite the fact that I usually blend in very well (it usually started with the looks on their faces when I said where I was from). I have learned not judge the persons who did it, in the end it’s their problem, not mine. I refuse to enter that vicious circle.

    I can understand the logic behind that discrimination and I used to be very ashamed for what a lot of what my countrymen did to create that image, but that is completely useless. It changes nothing. Because I don’t care what other people of any nation -statistically speaking- do or don’t do. Those statistics do not define anyone, we are all different persons with different stories and personalities. I react to people, not concepts or statistics or my own fears.

    And I really don’t care about the so-called greatness of any country either – history is always written by the winner. I like to decide what’s great and what’s not for myself, every country has its good and bad sides once you get to know it.

    I wish you good luck whatever you decide to do,

    • avatar
      Stephen.

      Very well put and thank you for the wishes. I don’t care too much also about what people are saying, but what bothers me the most is the simple fact that some of them are thinking they are much superior and better than us simply by being “lucky” to be born in a better country than the rest of us, even tho their lifes are crappy.

      Good luck to your adventures too, and I hope you find a great country to live in, most probably out of the europe anyway.

  163. avatar
    kinsleigh

    I think that we as a country should let then in to our country to work. There was a documentary on BBC about Romanians and Bulgarians pick pockets etc say between them they take 400 million out of the economy each year what do you think is going to happen to the economy because they are going to take there earning and send it back to there country so when they go back they got something to go back to they what we going to do cut more costs like nhs taxes going up

    • avatar
      John Smith

      I find it hilarious when people complain that they will take their earnings out of the country yet no one complains about multinational corporations taking money abroad. We live in an age of globalization, it may be a good thing or bad thing whatever you look at it, but it’s a reality nevertheless, globalization involves an eventual free movement of capital and people, if anybody has a problem with that they can protest against globalization as a WHOLE, not just certain aspects of it, it’s like the bill of human rights you have rights and responsibilities you can’t just can’t have rights.

  164. avatar
    John Smith

    Come to Australia, you will be welcomed here like the Serbs and Croats were welcomed when their Yugo dissolved.

  165. avatar
    Limbidis Arian

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-aExjjfISE

    I was fuming when i saw this AND the debate.
    The simple fact there even IS such a debate makes my stomach turn. But i digress.
    Alright, alright. Fine, if Western Europe wants to play the xenophobia game, WE IN THE EAST can play it too.
    All companies that are here sucking us dry of wealth will be IMMEDIATELY nationalized or deported.
    You want to play hard France, Germany and Uk? Ok fine.
    I got a DANISH shipyard in my town and two FRENCH companies. How much are you willing they won’t really like this idea.

    What were you thinking that we’re the stupid peasants that you can throw some scraps and happy dreams and we’ll give you our golden riches?
    Reality check.

    I had enough of the brits, ENOUGH. THEY are the one who spread this xenophobic poison all across Europe. And now that witch LePen and her hate party is free to say horrid things.

    “ooo Romania is full of gypsies” <— get a bloody clue you ignorant fools. They are barely 0.5% of the population and the stigma is not their fault.
    THEY ARE POOR, and DISCRIMINATED – no wonder they can't make anything of themselves.

    My french and english teacher was a gypsy who got lucky and had an education and a chance and he was a very intelligent man. What do xenophobic mongrels know of that, though, right?
    He's a "foreigner", he's fair game.

    I have been a staunch defender of EU ideals, of the EU idea, even in face of crap that would make others falter because i BELIEVED in the European union, a coming together of Europe.
    But NO MORE. The dream is over and the EU is turning more and more into a RICH COUNTRIES' club where the poor sit at the door and MAYBE get a scrap from the master's table.
    ENOUGH.

    If this garbage passes and the UK gets its way, then the EU is dead and we might as well say it outright and move on.
    Fools…fools that give in to radical far-right maniacs for the sake of some stinking votes. Truly democracy if horrible when the people are ill informed.

  166. avatar
    Bratu Marius-Cosmin

    This is discrimination …

  167. avatar
    Karel Van Isacker

    Unbelievable how xenofobic European are towards Europeans. If you mean you are afraid of Roma and Gypsies, ok, you have a point, but real Bulgarians and Romanians are 100% Europeans, hard workers and dedicated employees/colleagues/friends.

  168. avatar
    Venko Drumchiyski

    Hi, Im Bulgarian why You don`t say where is the real problem? Real problem are gypsys- they are people who most use social system and have more than two children, they don`t work just use the sistem. In EU don`t have a country which integrate gypsys. How many Bulgarian people are use social system in country from EU? How much money they are receive from social sistem to this countries? How many from they are gypsys? How many employers are not happy when Bulgarian people work for them ? Ask in UK, Germany, France, Spanin, Italy ! Each employer make good money from Bulgarian workers `couse they work well. That is good for each country except Bulgaria. Bulgaria have a big problems whit demography. Which people go to work in EU country ? That people are 20 – 40 years old – color of Bulgarian nation. How many Bulgarian people after 01/01/2014 will go to other country in EU for work and live? – Almost the same count like each year from the last 5 y. Whe are not Polish people. In Bulgaria lives about 6 milion people and from them not too many will go to work in EU. Each Bulgarian love this country and prefer to live and work in Bulgaria even Bulgarian people who are citizens to other EU country from years. Don`t have a better place like home.

  169. avatar
    Dami An

    These two countries have suffered enough during the long Ottoman invasion and during the 50 years of the communist dictatorship. Stop with this stupid xenophobia only because there live about 3 million Roma. This European minority of almost 11-12 million people needs finally a good EU masterplan for its effective integration in Europe. But it’s not the right way to treat them like a third class people and especially to discriminate the other people from Bulgaria and Romania because of them.

  170. avatar
    Borislav Valkov

    It’s unbelievable that european countries are more friendly towards people from their ex- colonies, than other european countries. There were people from an ex colony screaming “Allah Akbar” in the center of London and demand a muslic state in soveren UK, yet we(bulgarians and romanians) seems to be problematic?

  171. avatar
    Jorge R

    Restrictions? Is this the kind of Europe that we want? Is this the United States of Europe that we were talking about some days ago? Is this the idea of solidarity and citizenship that we are deserving?

    This question is awfull… it show what Europe is today: an economic club. As money you have got, as rights you deserve.

    I have no enough words in english to explain the disgust and aversion that I feel.

    Is not a Economic Totalitarism?? Are we better than other totalitarism?

    Disgust!!

  172. avatar
    Xabier Unanue

    It shouln’t be a restriction on those countries to start with. So, less an extension.

  173. avatar
    Xabier Unanue

    It shouln’t be a restriction on those countries to start with. So, less an extension.

  174. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    @ Redjade Glad you say that , i do not consider myself an eu citizen , i do not want to be an eu citizen and the so called rights of eu citizenship are totally meaningless to me. Strong Border Controls NOW!!!

  175. avatar
    David Fuzzey

    @ Redjade Glad you say that , i do not consider myself an eu citizen , i do not want to be an eu citizen and the so called rights of eu citizenship are totally meaningless to me. Strong Border Controls NOW!!!

  176. avatar
    Gigi Alexandru Muresan

    I think most of those xenophobic answers are here because you do not understand the question: it`s about WORKERS and CITIZENS…not about gypsies and non-workers-if you got a job and pay taxes you are welcome,if not you have to go home,Bulgaria,Romania,Portugal,Spain…no matter where are you coming from.

  177. avatar
    Sabo Doru-Cosmin

    I hope it’s not very idealistic of me of still associating British gentlemen with the respect of commitments as it appers in British literature.

  178. avatar
    Daniela Nikolova-Hristova

    Boohoo UK…get over yourselves! I am a Bulgarian. I have no desire to come and work in your stinking country! Why?!? 1. You talk about how bad situation is in Bulgaria. How about look at yourselves first? We have gypsies, we know that. You have just random stupidity walking on your streets – look at your teenagers (US Rapper wanna bes). 2. You claim we are uneducated. Think again! Bulgarians will kick your ass in every subject, anytime, anywhere! So no, I do not like your country and I would not come there to “look for a job”. You do not have anything good to offer. I would also not come and spend my money as tourist either. I’d rather go to Nairobi and sleep in a lion cage with 3 hungry lions than come to UK! They would eat me slower than you would – freaking imperialistic parasytes!

    Ohhh, and BTW – Daily Telegraph can bite me! Stating that the UK is “booming” is like stating that UK is the most progressive country in the world (even though they can’t figure out how to make hot and cold water come from the same place or better yet their “modern” lawn chairs have the same design as Shakespear’s chairs did). Just because 2-3% of your people have insane amount of money, does not mean everybody else is like that. Two of my neighbours are British who left Britain last year because there were no jobs for them (their company outsourced) and rent in and around London is outrageous!

  179. avatar
    dn8dani

    Restrictions should be removed as agreed upon. If restrictions are extended, the first thing both countries should do is kick out all Western European Companies that destroyed local businesses to sell their crappy goods that nobody else would buy. Charge the same appropriate taxes ASAP and sue for whatever else possible.

    UK needs to get over itself. It doesn’t support EU policies and agendas – needs to go! Daily Telegraph should shut its pi-hole. There is nothing “booming” in he UK that Bulgarians can’t live without. My neighbours are both British and both left as there are no jobs…So UK is as “booming” as it is “progressive” – can’t figure out how to make warm and cold water come from the same place. Everytime, I go on vacation, I can recognize British tourists for miles. No culture, no manners, yelling like they are the only people in the world…And they talk about Bulgaria?!? Imperialistic parasytes! Everything they have belongs to other countries – they are as bad as they say gypsies are. And no as Bulgarian, I would not come and look for a job in the UK because 1. I don’t like it and 2. the discriminating island in beneath me as a human being!

  180. avatar
    Tsvetanka Boeva

    Drunk British in the streets of Borovets and Sunny beach are also a very disgusting sight, but alas, they keep invading here… I don’t know how we can get rid of them. They will somehow put up with the Gypsies in exchange. :D

  181. avatar
    Roberta Suliauskaite

    Good one, but in general, Bulgarians and Romanians are not the problem. Probelm is that working class people from these countries will invade whole europe looking for opportunities whereas EU still has an issues on Youth unemployment and etc. For instance, London is already overcrowded…

  182. avatar
    Borislav Valkov

    In reality poverty is a problem in Bulgaria and even though that there are jobs there are still workers whose incomes are puting them in one social group as the workless. That is the result of “equal start” in economy with credit local billionares, comunist reborn as capitalists and mobsters and last but not least is the incomming firms from abroad which in reality shows(even in the magazine The Economist): “The formula for business success in Bulgaria seems to be to specialise, produce for export and stay small enough to avoid upsetting powerful interests. Anything requiring the state?s support (skilled labour, infrastructure) will take forever arriving. Bulgarian entrepreneurs say things are not as bad as they were. But EU membership and years of rising living standards have raised ordinary people?s expectations. If businesses meet them it will be despite the government, rather than with its help.”

    • avatar
      Dracula

      The restrictions are off and you can’t do anything about it. Also, don’t worry, you won’t leave anywhere anytime soon, lol.

  183. avatar
    Dolly

    Let them be !!!!!!!!!! What the hell is wrong in this mother****** world and you people every one should put himself in their status and try to feel how it’s like of course most of those people where denied by others when they where young in school with the romance side or third mama didn’t like them too much at all and other shit like that shame on you

  184. avatar
    lisa

    You can say that about every country.

  185. avatar
    ukmember

    I completely 100% believe that the restrictions should be permanent. I think it’s unfair these countries were allowed part of the EU in the first place but that was not our decision to make. I feel like the UK itself is struggling already one of my main problems with the government here is immigration. Our people are struggling to find work, our people who are severely disabled are been forced to work yet the economy here is failing. Why should we let more and more people in our country when we can’t even support British citizens who were born here?? It’s definitely not right to let more settlers in when here our people cannot get jobs. For instance my brother who completed half his training while employed , the company went bust 4 years ago. He spends his time searching and applying for jobs constantly going for interviews and never getting anywhere. In the area we are in there’s been a dramatic increase in Eastern European workers. Just for example most of the bus drivers are Bulgarian and they do NOT deserve the jobs anyway. There attitude stinks, throwing money back at you, driving ridiculously and putting fear into the passengers this is unacceptable. Why the hell should they be here taking our jobs and working in a public position with absolutely no social skills. This is not only what I feel but what a lot of the uk feels. Where once companies would take on 1 full time position, they are now taking 4 part time positions for the same job because the government has made it cheaper for them on taxes etc and all along it’s the uk people suffering. So this debate I here a lot of people saying it’s unfair to the Eastern Europe. But it’s also unfair on the people in the UK who are already suffering because of the rise in immigration. Anyway if the uk keep letting people in what sort of nation would we be? It’s people are already suffering poverty so if they cannot support the uk citizens why should they support other nations? And why should UKcitizens keep suffering because of this? Something has to be done in my opinion. The EU was the worst idea ever, we had no choice in the matter and our countries are failing as part of it. If it was up to me I’d never have gone that way in the first place but yet here we are in a country who can’t even support it’s own and your asking it to support others. That’s itself is a joke

    • avatar
      Eastern European diaspora

      Unfortunately its too late to protest. Bulgarians didn’t want to be a part of the EU either, its holding the countries in the dark ages with its restrictive laws which seem to be strictly enforced on Bulgaria and Romania and recently Hungary but somewhat relaxed for others.

      The time for protesting was prior to 2007 when EU membership for Bulgaria and Romania started being seriously discussed. Unfortunately the British public were completely unaware, since the mainstream media did not discuss it too much, nor were there any debates on potential future immigration. I don’t blame them, the Bulgarians weren’t given the full details and obligations of EU membership, the media was only talking about “freedom of movement, economic freedom, freedom from Russia and the communist past, development funds to bring about prosperity, Western European values and principles” and so and so going on about a Romanticist United Europe idea making the EU look like a utopia, yet obscuring the details of the forced monetary policy which will force Bulgaria and Romania sometime in the future (if the EU still exists) to adopt the Euro whether they like it or not (UK should count themselves lucky they have an exemption), these two countries have had their development severely restricted due to the policies and regulations on industry, agriculture and resources exploit which force factories to close down due to “global warming” a theory which is starting to lose its credibility, or farm machinery is outdated, it does not comply with EU food regulations denying Bulgaria and Romania not only of exporting their own produce abroad but denying them from selling it on their OWN shelves to their OWN people, businesses close down, buying modern machinery from Germany and the likes requires huge loans with high interest, and of course in the end they have to import food from Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the EU dictates BG and RO’s gas deals, recently they had to scrap the South Stream project because of EU policies and regulations on third party gas from Russia (not much freedom is there), now whether we like Russia or not we don’t have a choice, people have to keep warm and unfortunately Western Europe just doesn’t have the gas resources to match Russia, Bulgaria’s only major power station (Kozludy Nuclear Power Plant) had to be nearly shut down due to the EU’s policies and regulations on “clean energy” destroying not only their energy exports, but their energy independence, now they have to import from France and Germany, what sounds even worse is that if Merkel has her way Bulgaria will have to decommission Kozludy completely whether they like it or not, which will mean Bulgarians will have to pay the same price for electricity as Germans and Western Europeans while the salaries remain as low as they are now. That doesn’t sound very fair to me either, it even becomes more unfair when a deal was signed that the restrictions would be lifted (they have now) and people now all of a sudden have cold feet after all the policies and regulations which were imposed on BG and RO just as damaging to them as immigration is to the UK. Of course in no doubt the average British citizen, just like the average Bulgarian and Romanian, didn’t hear of the dark side of the EU nor did they think about the future nor did they bother to do some research on what it is they are signing up to, again I don’t blame anyone the media is manipulative, propaganda (public relations) always paints a rosy picture and the majority of people buy it without looking into it.

      My advice to you to avoid repeating the same mistake and ending up with more immigrants is to take a look at the current foreign policy of the EU. Just a few weeks ago, the leaders of major EU countries such as Germany and France (I think Cameron included), major EU officials were on a crusade in Kiev, Ukraine pushing forward the same image to the unbeknownst Ukrainians just like they did to Bulgaria and Romania a decade ago, and in no doubt if the Ukraine joins the EU you will have the same problem, in-fact an even bigger problem since Ukraine is a country of 45 million larger than Poland, and larger than BG and RO combined. Now is the time to protests against your leaders attitude towards Ukraine. As for BG and RO we can all talk about the past how we wouldn’t have done this, how wouldn’t have done that, how we didn’t choose this, how we didn’t want this, how unfair it is, but unfortunately we can’t go back in time and change things. What we need to do is come up with a solution for the future, either a serious reform of the European Union or dissolution of the union in favor of smaller scale Blocs between countries of similar cultures languages. The EU wasn’t a bad idea, it is just a poorly implemented idea same with the failed attempts to implement true communism during the cold war, and same with the current failing attempts at implementing true capitalism which is starting to look more like an oligarchic fascist system rather than capitalism. The world has changed and Europe is a small part of it, even the larger more powerful European countries such as France, Germany, the UK are small and relatively weak compared to the rest of the world. Just think how would have the individual EU nations, Western Europe included, would have faced off against the Russian, American and Chinese Giants by themselves especially in the period when the colonies became independent, the EU gives them a Greater representation. Some sort of union is required maybe it will involve BG and RO seeking closer ties with Russia, Germany Austria, and Switzerland could maybe form some sort of union between themselves, Scandinavia could become a separate Bloc, the Mediterranean region another Bloc etc, etc, otherwise Europe would be crushed especially since traditionally pro-European ex-colonies such as the USA, Canada, Australia are losing their European character and are starting to pick an African, Latino, Arabic, Asian character, there could be a time in the future when white Europeans no longer are the majority in those countries and even a time when they disappear from those countries completely, If such a time occurs in no doubt they will no longer support or help out Europe, in-fact they may turn against it.

  186. avatar
    Nikolaos Sotirelis

    This definitely isn’t the Europe which the leaders that created the idea dreamed of and certainly not the Europe which its citizens desire. It’s a nationalist, racist Europe, doomed to die!

  187. avatar
    konzi

    Anyone who wants to work honestly should be allowed to do so in any country in EU, if it’s qualified best for the position nationality shouldn’t matter. On the other hand no social assistance should be provided at all and never ever if you are not working and you are outside your own country. Additionally anybody who is not working for 2-3 months should be returned to his own country. Problem solved :) I’m Bulgarian by the way.

  188. avatar
    Linda Plumpton

    I think its absolutely disgraceful after watching the programme tonight on gypsies claiming benefits from Slovakia. We need to come out of the EU as quickly as possible! We as taxpayers are paying them to live here and not work. Disgraceful, disgraceful …..what is the government going to do about this – they need to act quickly. No wonder we have problems in the NHS and schooling. They would not be allowed in Australia they wouldn’t tolerate it but we are just a soft touch.

  189. avatar
    Jan

    When I was a manager in Kazakhstan the best working team I had was the Romanians.

  190. avatar
    Bacchusdonna2@aol.co.uk

    Am so appalled watching Romanians who have set their goals not on any job or participation to our country but it’s only about what they are able to claim and what makes me so cross like others I’m sure they haven’t given a penny twowards our country. It’s actually the attitude and this needs to be seriously addressed. In one Romania family Out of 22 , 19 are on benefits and and they are having more kids to get more money not one evidence of adding value to our country so why are they here? We made huge mistake

    • avatar
      Adrian

      How do you know all this?

  191. avatar
    Dakar G.Ivanov

    Do you know what it’s like to be a 17 year old teenager who’s lived more than half of his life starving and getting luxuries that every person in our time deserves denied?Do you know what it’s like for your whole young life to have been lost rather than enjoyed and have been a life full of fun and happiness?And that you’ve held on.You’ve had hope that one day..when you’ve gathered enough knowledge about the culture of another country,their language,their value system and found more yourself relating to that more than your own you’ll finnaly be accepted..you’ll finnaly have a decent life where you won’t worry about starving or how you’ll pay the bills that you haven’t for months now..is just taken away because some stuck up close minded fools said “f*ck you” to the rest of your life?That is pain.It hurts.Because I’ve always had hope to be able to make a good life in the UK and to know that it’s probably gonna be sniffed away just like the other years behind me..Hurts..Because If I don’t get a chance at life there and I’m forced to stay here.I’ll always barely make ends meet and I’ll always worry about how to pay for food for my wife and kids while trying to cloth and provide them with a decent life and trying to give myself some clothes and food too..Don’t do this.Don’t take away my life from me with a stupid thoughtless decision.

    • avatar
      Dakar G.Ivanov

      And for the record.I am not a gypsy.I am a tolerant,liberal minded young atheist white male from a town called Sliven in Bulgaria.I want to put emphasis on that because the western european countries seem to think that bulgarians are gypsies.No,we are not.We are white just like any other white brit or french guy.I myself am regarded by my friends and family as being very pale when it comes to skin colour.

  192. avatar
    Opinion from somewhere

    Please forget everything about Bulgarians and Romanians !!!! It does not matter they are EU members now!!!!

  193. avatar
    Claud Ellender

    Such amazing details and colors.. beautiful!! Sad to see modern cities around these ancient places – such an eyesore.. but that’s what happens when there are too many hoomans 🙂The Taj Mahal and the Pyramids both have sprawling cities almost outside their front doors, but thankfully you dont see those ugly structures around those monuments. Thanks to UNESCO so many amazing places are taken care of.

    http://conferparty.pixnet.net/blog/post/187817965-2019-4E69C88EFBC8CE58FB0E58C97E98592E5BA97ktvE6B688E8B2BBE5A0B1E583B9

  194. avatar
    Jack Smith

    Bulgarians and Romanians are wonderful decent people and hard workers but as an American who lives in Bulgaria and will soon have a Bulgarian citizenship I am against the Euro in Bulgaria even though soon the Euro and Dollar will be equal in Value. I like the Leva and I know that prices are lower in Bulgaria as long as the Leva is here. I have no need for higher European prices and an influx of Europeans to a wonderful climate and wonderful Bulgarian people. Yes property values would go up and I benefit but we have enought Eu citizens here in summer.

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