UPDATE: 10/10/17: Is this the day Catalonia declares its independence from Spain? All eyes are on Catalonia as the president of the Catalan government, Carles Puigdemont, is set to address the regional parliament this evening and announce (or not!) Catalonia’s unilateral declaration of independence.

The last week has seen Catalonia confronted with popular discontent and street demonstrations by both supporters of independence and of a united Spain. While the Catalan authorities have requested international mediation on the issue, European countries such as Germany and France have expressed support for Spanish unity. Rising uncertainty has opened the door to a business exodus from the region, as a growing number of companies have announced their intention to relocate offices. Surprisingly, Artur Mas, former regional leader, and Ada Colau, Mayor of Barcelona, have openly questioned whether Catalonia is ready for real independence, calling on Mr. Puigdemont to step back and not declare independence (at least, not just yet).

King Felipe VI of Spain has assured, in a speech to all Spaniards and Catalans, that the legitimate powers of the state will guarantee the constitutional order against any declaration of independence by the Catalan authorities. The central government of Mariano Rajoy is awaiting Catalonia’s next move, before deciding on using its strongest “weapon”, an article in the Constitution that would allow taking over full control of the region and suspending Catalonia’s historical Statute of Autonomy.

Is this the day Catalonia declares its independence from Spain? Will it be a formal or just symbolic act? What next for Catalonia?

ORIGINAL 27/09/2017: Will Catalonia’s independence vote even happen? The latest development is that Spanish police will be deployed to prevent people voting in the scheduled independence referendum on 1 October 2017. The Spanish constitutional court has ruled that the referendum is illegal, whereas the regional government maintains that it is permissible under international law.

The situation escalated dramatically when Spain’s Guardia Civil raided regional government offices and arrested officials, seizing 10 million ballot papers and shutting down dozens of referendum websites. Logistically, it now seems impossible to actually hold a free and fair referendum.

So far, the European Union has maintained that this is a national matter for Spain to resolve internally. Is this position sustainable? And what should the EU do if the crisis escalates even further?

Curious to know more about Catalonia and the independence movement? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).

On 14 September 2017, we hosted – together with Euronews – a live YouTube interview with Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission. This is the second year in a row we have hosted the #AskJuncker event, and ahead of the interview we asked our readers to send us in comments and questions to be put to President Juncker.

We had questions sent in from Marhieu and Victor, wondering how the Commission would respond to the upcoming independence referendum on 1 October. Will the Commission officially recognise the results? What would Jean-Claude Juncker say? NOTE: His remarks were made before the Guardia Civil raids.

Should the EU recognise Catalonia’s independence referendum? Or should it stay out of national politics, and let Barcelona and Madrid sort this out between themselves? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Oscar Miño Peralta


600 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

    • diogenes

      No. The referendum is illegal and not justified. Spain is not an ideal state ( only North Korea is) but Catalonia is one of the richest parts of Europe and Spain. Roughly half the population of Catalonia comes from outside the region, but Puigdemont wants cultural purity: We are rich let’s separate from the poor and become ideal.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Diogenes
      It is the Spanish constitution that is illegal.

      When the law is an ass, an ass must get kicked!

    • veerle

      When Franco took away the independence of Catalonia, it probably wasn’t very much according to the constitution as well…

    • Rob

      Sure, but it toon 80 jears for Holland

    • Xavier

      Catalonia sells over 60% of its exports to Spain alone. Spain has invested millions of euros on Catalonia. despite it being the most productive region of spain and paying more to Madrid than other communities, its wealth is a byproduct of the current cooperation between the two, and would not be such by any means,if it were not connected to Spain, so saying that Spain “steals” from catalonia is a lie. young people have been adoctrinated in schools for years to reject spanish culture and even hate anything related to the country, promoting only their own culture, language and traditions and even modififying historical facts .Unlike Scotland ,Catalonia was never a kingdom, nor was it brutally conquered and massacred like Scotland was. Catalonia is not under repression nor abuse by the rest of Spain, on the contrary, it has been given freedom , respect and allowance to have their government , language, police etc.. Catalonia benefits massively from Spain and Spain does so as well from Catalonia, a symbiosis relationship. Catalonia belonged to the kingdom of Aragon historically, never was it a nation nor kingdom .catalan is one of spain’s many languages, spoken in the Valencian community and balearic islands ,it doesn’t belong to them. catalan is also spoken in Andorra, a different country, it does not define them as different or unique either. they have shared history as well as shared genetics, catalans have been spaniards for over 400 years. politicians have manipulated citizens and used nationalism very intelligently over the past years and it has deeply rooted in young generation’s hearts to very unsuspected limits, where little can be done to reverse it. young children are used in demonstrations etc.. as a political tool, despite them not being able to judge by themselves or have their own judmental ideas. About 50% of the population do not want to separate from Spain, but they are opressed and critized and they even fear expressing their desire to remain in Spain, making nationalists rather radicals. A series of lies and manipulation have , as a result, fraccionated the catalan society and has led to this problem which has no real solution. only dialogue, truth and common sense can help both Spain and Catalonia have a future other than a total ruin

    • Michael

      Right to selfdetermination is utopic illegal chimera in most places. The right to self determination exists in Spain as the whole of the Spanish population can determine the direction of Spain as a whole. Living in any part of a country means you have the right to decide over that area. Or do i have the right to selfdetermination in my house or my town?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Xavier
      Spanish culture has a lot to be negative about – machoism, corruption and arrogance.

      If I was Catalan, I too would vote to secede.

    • Emilie

      All ours problems are exposed very well. Thank you xavier!!!
      I’m agree with you.
      Puigdemont and many like him are really greedy.
      It ‘s a sad day for the riot in all Catalonia.
      I whish that the Catalans resolve that situation as soon as possible. The Catalan governement had broken the peace , the happyness and have faced each other in this moments . I am Spanish and Catalan
      Best regards

    • Jane Tse

      This is a reply to Tarquin Farquhar’s opinion dated 1/10/2017:
      “Spanish culture has a lot to be negative about – machoism, corruption and arrogance.
      If I was Catalan, I too would vote to secede.”
      Which country we cannot find machoism, corruption and arrogance? Are you suggesting that if Catalonia achieve is independence, the newly formed country would have no machoism, no corruption and no arrogance? According to your principle/standard, no human society should ever exist.

    • bon jovi

      Yes the right of expression is all our of our right. with so many expressing the desire for independence the Spanish government surely has to take notice of the need for change and acknowledge there is an issue and stop hiding behind a self-serving article of the constitution, which in essence is a threat of “do as i say or else we will take away your voice” and repression will only ever lead to discontent.

      repressing the the problem in the hopes it will just go away will not work, refusing to sit down and talk about the issues,not attempting to resolve problems and build bridges which seems to be the Spanish governments current approach just shows them to be closed, repressive and unwilling to hear anything other than that they wish to hear.

      its a shame that so many voices can be so easily silenced in this day and age and in Europe no less, its even more of a shame that Europe will also stand by and do nothing, say nothing and turn its back on its own citizens. if Europe will not stand up for the rights of its people then it has no purpose, why would anyone what to be part of it.

      the problem is the same between Catalonia and Spain. Spain disregards the rights of all of its people by not listening or seeing what is right in front of them. If Rajoy took his head out of his arse long enough to listen to another way of thinking, open minded enough to consider all of Spain as a whole and talk then he would be doing a service to all of Spain and all the people that voted for and against his government.

    • J Castro

      Then Spain will say “no”.

    • Micael Azevedo

      Greece should be part of Turkey? As Cyprus part of Turkey?

  1. Giulia Noia Dipresa

    Yes, if the people decided they want to be independent forcing them to stick to this status they don’t want damages their freedom.

    • Stefania Portici

      indipendenti dentro la UE !? La Catalogna non vuole uscire dall’euro e dalla UE ma vuole staccarsi dalla Spagna….non sò se si è capito ……

    • Giulia Noia Dipresa

      Stefania ho capito che vuole distaccarsi dalla Spagna, mi è chiaro.

  2. Deborah Griffith

    No, because they have organised the referendum without respect to due process and the rule of law. End of story.

    • Íngrid

      End of story? You have no idea about the story then. We have applied for a legal referendum several times (it has been done before by the way look at declaration about Referendum per l’Estatut 2006 in which the current president of Spain, at that time part of the opposition, was supporting the celebration of the referendum, ironic uh?). We Catalans have tried the dialog many many many many times for decades and centuries and the answer is always NO. This is not about legislation, this is about political interests. If you think that violating the right of self-determination, which is considered a compelling international law, is ‘respecting the rule of law’ then I’m done.

    • Benjamí

      Deboraj Griffith,

      The rule of law must be changed when 80% of the population in Catalonia is asking for a change. Spain will never change law since they’ll never recognize catalans, and catalans will never be able to change things in Spain since we are a minority.

      Begining of story.

    • Jordi

      Excuse me, this is not true, why are you thinking this? i am living on Barcelona and this is not true, please anwser to speak about it. Thanks.

    • Forca

      Such process doesn´t exist. I would like to see how do you feel for being beat for speaking your language.

    • Thomas

      You clearly have no clue of the history do you? Before you reply a simple “no” as an answer, go do your homework so you won’t look like an idiot.

    • Ray Churcher

      A law that was designed against the Catalans and any other area that might wish to vote for independence.
      The Spanish government could have easily defused this by agreeing to a referendum .
      Now the Spanish government are arranging fresh elections to form a new Catalan government.
      What happens if the nationalist gain a bigger majority?
      Is the Spanish government going to say the vote was illegal.
      The hypocrisy of it all shows through from the EU and the rest of the western world. Kosovo ripped from Serbia after Nato bombings and then EU recognises its independence, no referendum there but an insurgency which under any countries national law cannot be tolerated.
      What are the Spanish going to do, forced occupation of Catalonia, station troops permanently there?

  3. Francesco Oddone

    No way. The EU recognizes Spain and its democratic Constitution. All else leads to anarchy, implosion and self-destruction.

    • SD

      I understand your position but Catalonia has the right of self determination justblike Kosovo or any other place in the world. We are not talking about violent uprising, we are talking about democratic elections to answer a question that Catalonians have been thinking about for a long time. Nobody can stop Catalonia from doing this. Ofcourse if they leave Spain they leave the EU but the EU constantly wants to expand anyways ao it would only be a matter of time before they offer Catalonia membership. Spain would be deeply opposed but would come around eventually to accepting this.

    • Benjamí

      EU will recognize Catalonia and its new truly democratic republic constitution. If I were the EU, I wouldn’t recognize the spanish faked democracy, installed by a dictator who died in bed and who forbade catalans to learn and use their own language.

    • Leo Peregrinus

      Yep. The EU recognized Serbia too, and according to the Serbian democratic Constitution, just like in the case of Spain, this kind of referedums or any other attempt at secession were and still are considered illegal. But look what happened in the end. How do we call it? The politics of double standards, the politics of hypocricy, or simply: Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi. Such as it is today, the EU won’t survive.

    • Merce

      Are you sure, in this moment Spain looks like a democratic country? Really not! Please, look the videos of atacks to the civil poblation by spanish police.

    • Monkey

      Since the referendum itself wasn’t even legal under Catalan law and it was a Catalan court that first determined it was illegal this blaming Madrid should stop, it is not the truth. Madrid would never had needed to get involved if the Catalans hadn’t re-ordered their ministries and fired those not sympathetic to their cause, If they hadn’t subverted public funds for an illegal operation, in the process subverting the democratic process of electing officials and the Catalan parliament. As for the violence by the Police, perhaps if the Mossos had done their jobs as they promised when they swore loyalty to the Catalan constitution there would have been no need to bring in police from outside Catalunya, they refused a lawful legal instruction from the Catalonian High Court. Do not forget there is large amount of cause and effect to be seen here. To say this was democratic and a real representation of the people is a lie from the moment they broke their own Catalan laws, they pissed on their own constitution and people in process and tried to convince us it was for our own good, they have behaved no better then the Catalan middle class that openly supported Franco and yet now are forcing their language as a legal requirement on everyone in the exact manner as Franco forced them to speak Spanish.

    • Connie DaSilva

      What is illegal is to barr people from the right of self determination! That constitution needs to go and Catalonia has the right to be theor own country. Spain needs to stop beong an arrogant bully and grow up!

    • Jeff

      The law and constitution cannot be an eternal straitjacket for legitimate aspirations that go back decades, centuries. It was not so long ago that slavery was legal and women forbidden to vote.

  4. Rui Miguel

    The EU should, but won’t, support any process of popular consult like a referendum, under the principles of democracry and the right to self-determination, just like a commentator told before.

  5. Valentins Edgars

    in genetal yes, butnot now! because will be low participation and 99.99 % votes will say ‘Yes’.

  6. Robert Santa

    No. The EU has enough problem with members ignoring laws with the backing of local popular opinion.

  7. Theodoros Kondakos

    Yes it should EU is all about freedom etc, and the Catalans has a very strong identity which is suppressed.

    • Madeline J

      Not suppressed. I live in Catalunya and the kids at kintergarden don’t learn Spanish – they learn English before Spanish. If you have a business here, you can have an English name but not a Spanish one. When I go to the Social Security Offices and to the Tax Offices, the workers in many instances speak to me in Catalan even though I only speak Spanish. You cannot see any public signs in Spanish except in the airport. Suppressed??

    • Ion

      Their identity is NOT suppressed. Catalonia has one of the highest levels of self government of any region in Europe. Spain is recognized internationally as a full democracy with full respect for individual freedoms, among them the right, obviously, to live according to one’s culture, be it Catalan, Andalusian, or Peruvian, for that matter (our culture in Spain is also now the culture of those that came from other parts of the globe to enrich our country). It is nationalists who want to suppress part of a complex mix of identities of the majority of the catalans, and “purify” it in a single, homogenous one, alienating millions of people in the process.

  8. Joffrey Puente

    Well, first, the EU should help the two sides to talk normally and find an acceptable way out of this crisis! EU can not remain silent!!!!!

    • Petko Ivanov Prodanov

      They didn’t know what is real democration but expect always to be right!But in this case and many another thay are(the people in Europe who are not really together) not right!

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Vós euromarionetas soos todos do mais alto calibre democrático…haha

    • Pedro Castro

      Vós, populistas eurocépticos tem alguma dificuldade em compreender o conceito de lei.

  9. Chukwunonso Odidika

    European Union is based on the principle of democracy. Therefore, there is need to accept the outcome and support Catalonia for self determination as enshrined in UN charter for indigenous people.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Deborah Griffith
      The law in question was constructed to PREVENT secession. An immoral law should NOT be followed.

  10. José Bessa da Silva

    Obviously. Spain is acting like a dictatorship it always was. Even internet is being object of censorship. Not only it should recognize as it should sanction spain. But obviously the EU will never do that because it is just like spain itself, so…pointles question.

  11. Antonio Pinto Caldeira

    Although I’d like to see Spain remain united as a single country, Catalonians have the right to ask for their independece. It is the people that makes the law, not the other way around. The argument that independence is against the law makes no sense. According to Human Rights Declaration self determination is a universal right. What is being done in Spain against Catalonians seeking to have a referendum is a shame, it shows the lack of respect by the politicians for the people. Shameful!

    • Tony Muñiz

      You are clueless. So everyone that wants independence from their country, according to you has a right to it. Even though it’s not an occupied territory, there is no conflict. Just because. And even though 90% of the Spanish population, including a mayority in Cataluña approved the Constitution only 40 years ago. And even when that same Constitution has a pathway for independence. But the independence promoters choose not to follow the law and just do it.

    • Antonio Pinto Caldeira

      Tony porque na dejan Cataluna hacer el referendo?
      Despues del referendo y con los resultados em mano se pueden tomar medias. Se lo quieren negar por que?

    • Jose

      Becuase the Spanish Constitution articles, aproved in 1978 by the 98% of the citizen, say the following
      Article 1
      1. Spain is hereby established as a social and democratic State, subject to the rule of law, which advocates as the highest values of its legal order, liberty, justice, equality and political pluralism.
      2. National sovereignty is vested in the Spanish people, from whom emanate the powers of the State.
      3. The political form of the Spanish State is that of a parliamentary monarchy.
      Article 2
      The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation, the common and indivisible country of all Spaniards; it recognises and guarantees the right to autonomy of the nationalities and regions of which it is composed, and the solidarity amongst them all.

      So, first any constitution change respect to the frontiers, change in the state form will be vote for all the Spanish people, no only for Catalonian people.

      Second, 99% of democratic countries in the world don’t permit the independence of one part of them.

      Third, the referendum law and the post referendum laws to disconnet from Spain was aproved in the Catalonia Parlament without the legally rules giving by themself in the Statut and the procedures of the proper Catalonia Parlament, where the indepent forces represent the 48% of votes in the last regional elections two years ago.

      And finally, in democracy any people are up to the law

  12. Боян Максимов

    yes .. If not, where are the democracy values of EU :D Оr we should proove the dictatorships and modern shariah values only, written by Germany and France?

    • Petko Ivanov Prodanov

      Екзакли Бояне:) ЕС все още е някаква отдалечена от нормите,реда и принципите на просперитета в обществата структура със затихващи функции.Така съюз не се гради!

  13. Luigi Monteferrante

    If the majority want to vote, why not? Or does democracy apply only when it’s convenient to some, the presupposed winners?

    • Eva M. Martínez

      That’s the point. Only 40% from catalonians want independence. They lying about History, about numbers. Nationalist catalonian politicians are manipulating people for many years, placing hate about Spain to hide their corruption. All this exploded now because Spain was going to investigate their corruption. They wanna a quick break now to save themselves and hide clues. Spain must protect their people. A minority wanna rule the zone as a new country but that silent 60% of catalonians that wanna stay in Spain matter. They must be heared, taken into account and be protected! I’d wish their politicians stop to spread hate over the people… This issue only can be fixed by understanding that brotherhood instead of frontiers makes people strong and happier. Let’s grow in love not hate!

    • Merce

      Why? Why? Why?

  14. Esther Huhn

    The EU cannot stop the referendum but will the 27 EU member states allow an independent Catalonia to join the EU as a full member? That’s another question.

  15. Christiaan de Vries

    Should it recognise their independence? Only if Spain does, and only if it doesn’t remain w member of the EU

  16. Christiaan de Vries

    Should it recognise their independence? Only if Spain does, and only if it doesn’t remain a member of the EU

  17. Luis Gaspar

    Of course it should. Actually, it must. Or otherwise it will be in breach of the very treaties that it is supposed to defend.

  18. Paul X

    So the EU is basically “cherry picking” what it gets involved with. It loves to try and take over at a European level as much as it can as long as it benefits itself, yet when one of its members starts to have internal problems it pulls up it’s Euro-umbrella and claims it needs to be sorted at a National level

  19. Edita Buržinskaitė

    Well, only if Spain recognizes it. This is Spain’s internal matter, the EU does not have jurisdiction over such things, seeing that it’s not (yet at least) a federal state.

    • LastOfHeroes

      Serbia is not a federal state and under its Constitution, Kosovo is a province in Serbia without right to declare independence.
      Yet, NATO bombed Serbia without approval of Security Council of UN and thus broke international law.
      So the Genie is out of the bottle. You reap what you sow.
      The worst case of hypocrisy is when EU Commission said that Kosovo is “a unique case” and that what applies on Kosovo doesn’t apply to anybody else.
      Double standards at its finest.

  20. Apostolos Garoufos

    Yes, I think that Europe should recognize this referendum but, on the other hand, we need to be connected each other and to love other countries…

  21. Svetoslav Todorov

    Recognising the referendum, would most probably trigger a chain reaction in Spain and within other EU countries as well. For example, the Basque country will probably be next, then followed by Belgium (splitting in two), followed by (god forbid (this is just an expression, I am not religious)) parts of Bulgaria wanting to split and join Turkey. Next thing you know, you could have several new “countries” within Europe. There are many countries in Europe with diverse ethnical population, but the theoritical benefits of a region declaring an independe and forming a new country will be outweighed by the complications that new country will face, if the separation is not aligned with their former state. For example, if somehow Catalonia obtains independence from Spain, then you can surely expect Spain will veto any attempt of Catalonia joining the EU or any other European institution.

    • J Castro

      That´s the point.

    • Et_in_Arcadia_ego

      And it all begun in Serbia.
      We bombed that country for 78 days without resolution of Security Council of UN witch was illegal.
      Then we took 15% of their territory and gave it to bandits and drug dealers.
      Afterwards when Kosovo unilaterally declared independence without referendum and against Serbian Constitution,we recognized Kosovo as an independent state and thus broke international law.
      I am not surprised at all.
      I knew that that will come back to bite us.
      I just don’t remember anybody here protesting about it in 2008.
      Hipocrites!

  22. Justin Davids

    No, because it’s illegal. They would of course recognise a legal referendum however.

    • Raquel

      Voting is democracy. If the central government does not make a policy is normal to have an illegal referendum, this central government neither proposes anything nor for years has made proposals or pactos. We have tried to carry out by the legal route but was denied.Now applies the
      law and without politica.Catalans we can not let it go without listening. Also, pp, psoe and citizens, even if they are 3 parties, I put it in doubt. However, we can, another political party, proposes legal referendum. Remember: before many things were illegal and now are legal like woman vote.

  23. Darrell Mennie

    yes- every country n the EU wants their own referendums recognized, no matter what it is on, it goes to follow that you need to recognize others’ as well if you want your own to have the same consideration.

    • Jovan Ivosevic

      Scotland is a sovereign kingdom whose leaders chose to form a Union (Britain) with another kingdom (England).

      Catalonia is just one province of a kingdom (Aragon) whose leaders chose to form a union (Spain) with another kingdom (Castille).

      Catalonia is closer to Aberdeenshire or Fife than to Scotland

    • Ivan Burrows

      Jovan Ivosevic If the people of Catalonia want self determination why should they not have it ? The past is not the future.

  24. Jorge Lopes

    Sure. Even as independent territory, should be under UE legislation, Catalunya has a strong trading system, industry and economical power. UE should keep a good relationship with Catalunya.

    • Ricardo Fonseca

      No it shouldn-t… it has to go through an admission process. Theres no sucession since Spain has not disapeared.

  25. Franco Suarez

    El reconocimiento y la admision son dos cosas diferentes. Reconocer a una nacion INDEPENDIENTE y que cumple con lo necesario para ser miembro de la union, SI!

  26. Ricardo Fonseca

    Nope… it-s not up to the EU to recognize separatist movments on their member states. In fact that-s an internel problem of spain.

  27. Петър Йовчев

    The referendum is part of the cave democracy therefore they should not exist at all. I personally respect the will of Catalans to have an independent country but firs of all for historical reasons the are living a lot of Spanish people, have mixed economy, infrastructure, marriages – every divorce is not good for both parts. On the other hand if this referendum will be recognized an avalanche of such votes will follow all over the Europe , Scotland, Galicia, Nord Ireland, Valonia, Padania and so on – that will be very bad scenario.

    • Петър Йовчев

      Denmark also should be united with Norway, Estonia with Finland , Macedonia with Bulgaria, Romania with Moldova, Austria with Germany, Kosovo with Albania etc. This will open the box of Pandora.

    • Paul X

      “Ireland should be united. Divided against the will of the people”……

      Incorrect……..it was actually divided by the differing wills of the people

  28. Pere Planas

    Yes, for sure. The spanish occupation forces can’t force all of us to stay at homes. We go to our poll boxes and we will be free. Pistols against votes? The EU have no eyes?

    • Amparo CT

      Y quien tendria derecho a votar??? Los mas 200.000 catalanes que viven fuera podrían?? Los extranjeros residentes también?? Una votación es democrática si puede ofrecer garantias, si no, es una pantomima que cuesta mucho dinero.

    • Pere Planas

      Amparo CT los mismos que en otras elecciones al uso. Los residentes fuera si pueden, de hecho ya lo han hecho. Y las garantias que me reclama . Reclámelas al gobierno de españa que es quien priva de tenerlas. Gracias.

    • Xabier Puig

      I’m a Catalan living abroad and no one gave me a way for voting . This is not a referendum.

  29. Manuel Freire Barros

    Europe has a duty to recognize the right of peoples to self-determination. there are people within Europe living undergoing other peoples. this is unworthy of a free and democratic Europe.

  30. Andrew Potts

    Does independence mean anything at all when the EU tries to force European people to accept policy they do not want.

    • Ivan Burrows

      You are right, leaving Spain while staying in the EU dictatorship is meaningless.

  31. Daniel Martinez

    After a legal referendum, for sure (unfortunately the 1st Oct referendum is not a legal referendum as it should be ).

    Anyway, as catalan I would like to see the EU intermediating between both parts to facilitate a legal referendum that should be recognized by everybody .

    Then, the catalan people would be able to choose between being independent or remain with Spain after evaluating pros and cons .

    In my personal opinion, as catalan I would prefer to remain at Spain as well as to remain inside the EU. However that is conditionated to perform a deep remodeling of the Spanish Constitution with a more fair economic and tax distribution politcies between the different Spanish territory, as well as other changes such as abolishing the Spanish monarchy to become a Spanish Republic.

    It also would be very interesting to include the concept of a Federal Spanish Republic so we can still be a country made of several nations. Such as europe…

    • Ryan Kelley

      I agree with this 100 percent!

    • Pere Planas

      No way with spain. That reforms that you said has impossible to do. That’s a fact. If you love your family, your money and your freedom, please come to vote on sunday.

    • Daniel Martinez

      Pere Planas I love my money that’s why the economical arguments of being out from Spain (and the EU) make me stay away of catalan’s independence. Just remember how Britain’s are regretting from brexit due to the big damage it is being done to their economy.

      I also love my family, that’s why I would prefer to stay together in the same country, instead of having to cross a border to visit my “foreign family on Spain”.

      And of course I love my freedom, that’s the main reason why I don’t support the repressive acting and the lack of dialogue from spanish government. However, also remember that the catalan’s government had break spanish laws by promoting their own laws to allow a referendum. So that also affects my freedom. When a government breaks the superior statment laws based on his own interest, that is against citiziens laws and rights. So I think that was a huge mistake from the independents side. Definetly not a clever decission…

      Anyway, I hope all this mess just ends in a period of dialogue as I said before.

    • Fernando Alonso

      This is a very sound opinion. As a Spanish from outside Catalunya I subscribe it completely

  32. Daniel Martinez

    After a legal referendum, for sure (unfortunately the 1st Oct referendum is not a legal referendum as it should be ).

    Anyway, as catalan I would like to see the EU intermediating between both parts to facilitate a legal referendum that should be recognized by everybody .

    Then, the catalan people would be able to choose between being independent or remain with Spain after evaluating pros and cons .

    In my personal opinion, as catalan I would prefer to remain at Spain as well as to remain inside the EU. However that is conditionated to perform a deep remodeling of the Spanish Constitution with a more fair economic and tax distribution politcies between the different Spanish territory, as well as other changes such as abolishing the Spanish monarchy to become a Spanish Republic.

    It also would be very interesting to include the concept of a Federal Spanish Republic so we can still be a country made of several nations. Such as europe…

  33. Daniel Martinez

    After a legal referendum, for sure (unfortunately the 1st Oct referendum is not a legal referendum as it should be ).

    Anyway, as catalan I would like to see the EU intermediating between both parts to facilitate a legal referendum that should be recognized by everybody .

    Then, the catalan people would be able to choose between being independent or remain with Spain after evaluating pros and cons .

    In my personal opinion, as catalan I would prefer to remain at Spain as well as to remain inside the EU. However that is conditionated to perform a deep remodeling of the Spanish Constitution with a more fair economic and tax distribution politcies between the different Spanish territory, as well as other changes such as abolishing the Spanish monarchy to become a Spanish Republic.

    It also would be very interesting to include the concept of a Federal Spanish Republic so we can still be a country made of several nations. Such as europe…

  34. Daniel Martinez

    After a legal referendum, for sure (unfortunately the 1st Oct referendum is not a legal referendum as it should be ).

    Anyway, as catalan I would like to see the EU intermediating between both parts to facilitate a legal referendum that should be recognized by everybody .

    Then, the catalan people would be able to choose between being independent or remain with Spain after evaluating pros and cons .

    In my personal opinion, as catalan I would prefer to remain at Spain as well as to remain inside the EU. However that is conditionated to perform a deep remodeling of the Spanish Constitution with a more fair economic and tax distribution politcies between the different Spanish territory, as well as other changes such as abolishing the Spanish monarchy to become a Spanish Republic.

    It also would be very interesting to include the concept of a Federal Spanish Republic so we can still be a country made of several nations. Such as europe…

  35. Daniel Martinez

    After a legal referendum, for sure (unfortunately the 1st Oct referendum is not a legal referendum as it should be ).

    Anyway, as catalan I would like to see the EU intermediating between both parts to facilitate a legal referendum that should be recognized by everybody .

    Then, the catalan people would be able to choose between being independent or remain with Spain after evaluating pros and cons .

    In my personal opinion, as catalan I would prefer to remain at Spain as well as to remain inside the EU. However that is conditionated to perform a deep remodeling of the Spanish Constitution with a more fair economic and tax distribution politcies between the different Spanish territory, as well as other changes such as abolishing the Spanish monarchy to become a Spanish Republic.

    It also would be very interesting to include the concept of a Federal Spanish Republic so we can still be a country made of several nations. Such as europe…

  36. Daniel Martinez

    After a legal referendum, for sure (unfortunately the 1st Oct referendum is not a legal referendum as it should be ).

    Anyway, as catalan I would like to see the EU intermediating between both parts to facilitate a legal referendum that should be recognized by everybody .

    Then, the catalan people would be able to choose between being independent or remain with Spain after evaluating pros and cons .

    In my personal opinion, as catalan I would prefer to remain at Spain as well as to remain inside the EU. However that is conditionated to perform a deep remodeling of the Spanish Constitution with a more fair economic and tax distribution politcies between the different Spanish territory, as well as other changes such as abolishing the Spanish monarchy to become a Spanish Republic.

    It also would be very interesting to include the concept of a Federal Spanish Republic so we can still be a country made of several nations. Such as europe…

    • Nicolette Ladoulis

      I read their own draft constitution does not allow for referendums!! Haha!!! 👻

  37. Rob Parry

    Only if they recognise the Brexit and scots independence referendums lol!

  38. Andreu C Sánchez

    When people disagree on something, how should the conflict be settled. I’d rather vote than send the army in.

  39. Craig Willy

    Tough one. From a legal point of view, which I guess is the EU’s role, probably not. But then, does that mean the EU does not actually recognize a right to self-determination?

    • Bogdan Batrin

      Hey dude….. EU doesn’t recognize Kosovo. It all depends on whether it’s MS agree to recognize an entity. In the case of Catalonia I think there might be on in particular which will have a problem.

    • David Haston

      Yeah dude….EU would presumably have respected Scotland’s referendum on leaving the UK. However, the rest of the UK did not have a vote on Scotland leaving the UK even though its departure would have implications for them. England has not been granted a referendum on whether it wants to leave the UK.
      If it did leave, then the rump of the UK would (prior to Brexit) have still been in the EU and England would automatically have been outside the EU without Article 50 etc.

    • Samuel Lisz

      This is what Madrid is saying to everything coming from Catalonia xD

  40. Bogdan Batrin

    http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/declaration.shtml

    This is the declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples. In it it, while expressing support for the liberation of dependent peoples, it also states:

    6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

  41. Marco Bianchi

    The point is: what kind of limit can we imposed to self-determination?
    If the EU recognizes Catalonia’s independence will it recognized the same right to the people of Corsica, Brittany, Scotland, the Basque country, South Tyrol etc? Wouldn’t this lead Europe to revive a Medieval kind of situation in which Europe is divided among a myriad of pritty small states?

  42. Colin Hounslow

    Spaniard: “So you are having a referendum on the future of Spain and you don’t want to give me a vote?”
    Catalan: “Yes, it’s called democracy!”
    Spaniard: ??????
    #NotDemocracy
    #Mobrule

    • Marc Hernández Capeta

      Not really, it’s about Catalonia, like it was about Scotland when there was a referendum there.

    • Gonzalo Franco Saez

      no Marc Hernández Capeta it’s abt Spain bcoz Catalonia was never a country itself

    • Colin Hounslow

      No…. Scotland is a country in its own right (look at the Act of Union), Catalonia is a province (like an English county)…….Big difference.
      It’s a bit like starting an independence for Bedfordshire movement!

    • Raphael M Espan

      But not the rest of the country. You know that reason behind all this is money. Democracy is more than being heard. Ps is it democratic that this ‘poll’ was not debated in the Catalan parliament? Is it democratic to divide people like this?

  43. Teresa París

    Ilegal.
    No democratic.
    No legal censes and control tables.
    Ilegal to the bottom at the top.
    No way.

    • Samuel Lisz

      Made illegal by dictatorship government not seeing the necessity to negotiate. Timely negotiation would have avoided this stupid situation anyway.

    • Raphael M Espan

      Samuel Lisz lol puigdemont is the dictator. Why does Spain has to negotiate with somebody that does not want to talk, but only requests more and more. Ps do you know that Catalonia has more rights than for example any region in France? Every spaniard should be equal from the perspective of the law

  44. Julian Daniel Jimenez Krause

    No way.
    (1) the law enacting the “referendum” was illegal even against catalonian law: it was NOT discussed in parlament, oposition had no say, but it was proclaimed on fast track unilaterally.
    (2) the master minds of this “referendum” designed it from the very beginning to get participation only from hard-core separatists: the anti-separatist majority of catalonians will not vote on 1 october.
    (3) the “law of disconnection” –apart of being processed as illegally as the referendum law– stipulates that a simple majority of no matter how few voters will result in secession. this is utterly undemocratic, it is basically a PUTSCH.

  45. Hugo Costa Moreira

    No…this would be illegal in all the ways. The Spanish Constitution should change before the EU accepts this referendum

    • Lefter Isuf Gjura

      Pretty well!!!
      No genocide anymore
      Macedonia next my friend
      This is called free self-determination world 😎

  46. Karolina

    No, it was illegal. The EU should promote the concept of unification. Is anyone in Catalonia oppressed? Why do they want to have an independence referendum?

    • S andro

      Are you for real?

  47. Eduardo Santamaria

    Three is a constitution and articles in this constitution to reform and modify it. The catalonian goverment just make a putsch and pretends that is legal and democratic like the referendum in Crimea, South Osetia or Absajia. No one recognizes by the way those countries.

    • Eva M. Martínez

      Spain is vital for Catalonia economy too, isn’t it? Brotherhood and love works way better than frontiers or hate.

  48. Paweł Kunio

    They should be given a little bit more independence from central govt in Spain maybe but if that harms Spain too much it shouldnt be recognized by other eu member states as it might derail Spanish economy.

  49. Mattia Zeba

    If you dilute power and devolve competencies to smaller entities, bonduaries will lose their divisive meaning and supranational institutions (i.e. the EU) will be needed to address common issues and to balance the interests of members.

    Secession is indeed the key to EU’s own survival.

  50. Manuela Moura

    Oh stop that patronizing clap trap! Catalans have been waiting for more than 5 decades for this opportunity! Respect Catalunya and let them decide themselves just like in Scotland…The main problem is of course being avoided: What will happen to the monarch Filipe VI ? WillCatalunya become a Republic or remain a Duchy?

  51. Tiago Miranda

    In this situation, I think it’s best to wait until next week to discuss anything. There’s a lot going on in Catalonia right now and we still don’t know if the referendum will take place and how it’s going to happen.
    Depending on how it goes, we should, or shouldn’t, recognize the vote. I think this is more of a reaction than action situation.

  52. Victor CP

    No, it comes from hate, corruption and lies. Catalonia would be poison for Europe. Also, its economic situation, specially after its independent, would be untenable for the EU.

  53. Carlos Teixeira

    Such referendum should always be recognized, as well as its result! Democracy should always prevail! Central government is hiding his imperialist and colonialist attitude behind bureaucracy! Independence is always against the laws of the colonizing country, that is why common sense will say that those laws do not apply for the unique possible peaceful and democratic required act: referendum!

    • Eloy Oliveri

      Catalonia is not a colony. In fact it was metropoli during centuries. Review the History and the role of Catalan interests in Cuba.

    • Carlos Teixeira

      Eloy Oliveri , I am sure is not! But Castile keeps its old attitude as we have clearly seen in the past few days!

  54. Connor Hogan

    That ‘constitution’ everyone here is mentioning was drafted by a Castillian majority who despised the idea of Catalonian autonomy.

    • Eloy Oliveri

      The current Spanish Constition was approbed in referendum in 1978. The «yes» got more votes in Catalonia than in other regions. By the way, Catalonia has its own parliament, goverment, ministers, police, and they decided about almost everything in that territory, including the educa tion/brain washing of children in the schools. Believe me, that is too far of «despised autonomy», and that has been possible thanks to the Spanish Constitution.

    • Eloy Oliveri

      The current Spanish Constitution was approbed in referendum in 1978. The «yes» got more votes in Catalonia than in other regions. By the way, Catalonia has its own parliament, goverment, ministers, police, and they decided about almost everything in that territory, including the education/brain washing of children in the schools. Believe me, that is too far of «despised autonomy», and that has been possible thanks to the Spanish Constitution.

  55. Mindaugas Valentukevicius

    Why not? If they want independence, let them take it and let them deal with the consequences if there are any. On the other hand, lets do a what if scenario: Who cares if EU recognizes Catalonias independence or not? They can’t enforce anything as long as Catalonia doesn’t commit war crimes, and even if they did commit warcrimes, EU has no actual capability to enforce anything anyways. That part would be left for Spain themselves, those comedians from UN peacekeeper forces or (maybe?) NATO. I don’t understand what difference that makes anyways – EU has free travelling and as long as Catalonia becomes a member, nothing except Spanish Authority will change there. On the third hand (yep,… chernobyl) – if ideas of independence take root in the EU, that is completely fine: it will be harder to manipulate the weaker states, potentially less successful blackmailing will take place like that with the redistribution of those “refugees”. It will generally become more difficult to wrest national sovereignity, which is a good thing in my books any day of the week.

    • Javi

      A bit naive – do you really thing the EU will be more manageable with a multiplication of hyper-nationalist small states????!!!!

  56. Yanis Sarto

    I don’t believe that the catalán politicians handle this properly . Even if part of the population considers itself as something totally different that Spanish, to unilaterally organise referendums where u think you have majorities is not the way to create new states . There are so many other religious ethnic and linguistic minorities in Europe. What if they all do the same in their areas? There simply be chaos . Europe should not respect or recognise this referendum and both catalans and Spanish should start liking each other a bit for a change

    • Esteve Tremosa

      Then, do you think that current borders should be forever? Why not voting like Scotland or Quebec?

    • Yanis Sarto

      Both these regions agreed with the central government of those states . They didn’t start a chicken game which might have dark repercussions on the whole of society . And if you ask me ,yes I prefer that current European borders stay the same

  57. Eloy Oliveri

    If the EU countries want to be destroyed by the raise of nacionalist movements, yes, support de ilegal and fascist catalan referemdum is the best.

  58. Steve

    Absolutely! If Ireland didn’t have the right to liberate itself we would still be part of the U.K… yikes.

  59. Donald Punk

    Yeeees Catalonia new europe’s state! DEMOCRACY!!! Is it legal to close web pages? To enter local organitzation? Register printers and political parties? All without judicial order? Its a shame! Whereis the European Union when we need citizens???? LET CATALANS VOTE, VOTE IS NOT ILEGAL!!!! Let us vote!

    • Xabier Puig

      Voting is not illegal. It is illegal to impose a referendum where me and many others catalans cannot vote since we consider it is illegal. It is illegal to organize a referendum in which no one knows if the results are manipulated. It is illegal to organize a vote where many catalans all around Spain won’t be able to vote if they cannot displace to Catalonia because there is not the possibility of distance vote. And you say it is a shame….it is ridiculous.

    • Dino Boy Mican

      Look at eastern Europe. Why were countries there encouraged (and assisted) into making splits?

    • Dino Boy Mican

      Romania is very pro West when it comes to security issues, giving ground and water to NATO forces, but is always negative on other issues such as Kosovo (now Catalonia)? The answer is simple: Romania is a Russophobic country with internal minority issues. Helloooooo!!!!

  60. Paulo Especial

    If the EU defends the freedom of speech and right of each people to achieve it’s freedom or at least to have a choice in its future. Then the answer is yes!

    • Mathieu Coquelet Ruiz

      If the EU is to recognise the rule of law, then no. As this “referendum” (trully a crooked consultation) was illegal.

    • Dino Boy Mican

      After yesterday’s violent clamp down, it’s definitely yes. This will only strengthen catalan resolve

  61. Maia Alexandrova

    Change is inevitable – Catalonia and Kurdistan cannot be stopped and it is pointless to try and suppress the population with weapons, if nothing else works, because it will still not work. Kosovo and Crimea got what they wanted, now it is the turn of others and no opposition will deter them from their choice of future. They have the moral and human right for that. All laws have to be changed to reflect that, including the constitution. Pandora’s box or not, it doesn’t matter. Change cannot be stopped. EU should recognise the human and democratic rights of all people.

  62. Paul X

    …..are people not permitted to have “no EU vision”?

  63. Danny boy

    Catalonian officials arrested,voting papers seized,and election stations blocked by armed police.
    It’s good to see the spirit of Franco is still alive and well in heart of the Spanish government.

  64. Xabier Puig

    I am Catalan and I my position is against the independence. In any democratic country, the opposition parties must be taken into account. In Catalonia, the pro-independence parties, with only 48 % of votes, have imposed a law that they have created without consulting the other 52 % of voters represented at the Parliament. For doing this, they broke their own laws. Even the Parliament court said that they were committing a offense against the Catalan Law.
    Regarding the referendum, the census has been acquired illegally and we don’t even know if it is updated. No one from opposition parties are controlling the vote. There is any guarantee that the vote is not going to be manipulated. Moreover, all the expenses for doing the referendum does not appear at any public document, what itself is an offense according to the Catalonia law.
    This is a referendum where only can win the YES. Me and many people from Cataluna are not voting because we consider that by voting, we are acting against our own law. This is the point maybe you don’t have. I would like to have a referendum where ALL the people of Catalonia are free to vote, with a YES or NOT campaign . Not only a YES campaign. This referendum is just an excuse to become independent without attending any negotiation. It is an imposition. This is not the referendum Catalonia wants. It is not at all democratic.

    • Íngrid

      ¿War? We don’t have army. We are a peaceful nation, and we believe in Democracy. We hope EU will interfere if Spanish government send us all their military force (although they have already started to do that).

  65. Jaime Canet

    EU should not recognise a referendum that its ilegal, based on a regional legislation that disobeys the Spanish Constitution

    • Íngrid

      Spanish Constitution is subordinated under the international law, and international law says that the right of self-determination should always be ensured and I cite “Las normas relativas a los derechos fundamentales y a las libertades que la Constitución reconoce se interpretarán de conformidad con la Declaración Universal de Derechos Humanos y los tratados y acuerdos internacionales sobre las mismas materias ratificados por España.” This is what Spanish Constitution says.

      03/10/2017 José Luis Martí, Associate Professor in the Philosophy of Law at the Universitat Pompeu Fabra in Barcelona, has responded to this comment.

  66. Luis Jesus Rodrigues

    Está tudo certo mas há que seguir os termos da lei e não saltar as etapas todas. Imagina isso noutro país qualquer ou mesmo PT. Agora os Açores proclamam um referendo amanhã de independencia. Constituição, República, unidade, direitos, deveres, estado de direito… Esquece lá isso tudo assim de repente, tudo em nome de um acto ilegal. Concordarias?

  67. Íngrid

    Yes, of course. utube.com
    In Catalonia we are having a clear violation of human rights by the Spanish Government. To cite a few examples the freedom of speech and press, freedom of peaceful assembly and the most important right of a EU citizen, the freedom to vote in a democratic referendum to decide its future. They are arresting and charging our politicians, officials and citizens just because we think different. Our dream is to live in a EU that supports peaceful initiatives that are founded in the will of people, a EU that listens to their citizens when they are asking help from an opressive Member State. The party currently ruling in Spain comes from Franco’s heritage and therefore dictatorship mindset is the driving force of most actions undertaken under the Spanish government. Listen to Catalan politicians and officers, listen to Catalan people. Our history proves our democratic heritage, I want to recall Pau Casal’s speech when UN gave him the Peace Award in 1971, Catalonia was the first country to talk about peace in the XI century, and continues to be a peaceful country 10 centuries later. Ignoring the problem is no longer an option.

    • Javi

      Jaja! A joke? Catalonya has participated in many wars in the last 10 centuries, just like other parts of Spain. Voting is only democratic if the rule of law is not respected – this referendum was agreed by the Catan goverment against the will of the opposition representing the majority of votes in the Catalonian population. What happened last 6 september in the Parlament of Cat was a real coup d’Etat against the Catalonian and Spanish rules and institutions. The world should know that

    • diogenes

      Good start. According to Reporters Without Borders Catalonia is firing and blocking journalists that are critical about the independance

  68. Dan Toader

    No way. We already have nationalists. If EU recognize that then that mean citizenship is less than ethnicity and this is the END of Europe

  69. Diogo Santos

    Yes, yes and yes. The fact that the right to self-determination is no upheld within the EU is unacceptable.

    Natural law trumps constitutional law; it’s why we can scrutinize the latter.

    • Mathieu Coquelet Ruiz

      Catalunya is not on the list of Non-Self-Governing territories of the United Nations. So they don’t have such right, according the Public International Law.

    • Diogo Santos

      According to old Portuguese constitutional law, the Portuguese overseas provinces were constitutive part of the Portuguese nation. I fully understand where you are coming from, that said. Still, law is based on and ought to be criticized based on fundamental principles.

      A right to self-determination is foundational and refers to natural law and human rights themselves. Thus, it trumps Public International law.

      Any criticism of what’s going on cannot remain on empty positive law but has to refer to what’s beneath it.

      Either that or any legal system is just and legitimate because it exists and is recognized. Which would be nonsensical. in b4 slavery etc etc

      Other factors absent, the will of a large social majority ought to be enough to justify self-determination ad initio

  70. Alex Tselentis

    DEMOCRACY is what the clowns in Brussels are always flapping their lips about no ?? Well referendums are DEMOCRACY, stupid question.

    • Mathieu Coquelet Ruiz

      This was no referendum. Voters were pre-selected. “Democracy” where voters are preselected include Saudi Arabia.

    • Alex Tselentis

      Mathieu Coquelet Ruiz LOL .. “preselected” who you think you fooling buddy, thats why the civil gaurd was sent in, dont disregard people, regardless.

  71. diogenes

    No. The referendum is illegal and not justified. Spain is not an ideal state ( only North Korea is) but Catalonia is one of the richest parts of Europe and Spain. Roughly half the population of Catalonia comes from outside the region, but Puigdemont wants cultural purity: We are rich let’s separate from the poor and become ideal.

    • Yolanda RG

      …??? what does that have to do with this issue? Cataluña is being part of Spain since ever…since Spain is Spain!
      Don’t mix things up!

    • António Perez

      Have you heard about “tratado de Alcanizes”?.It was in September 1297.In 1800 Spain change the Borders of Spain and Portugal by assaulting Olivença during French invasions. Who knows if history can be changed once again??🤔😬

    • Zé Pires

      Yolanda RG no it was not, they only join Spain in the time of the catholic kings Fernando and Isabel and I tell you more, in the XVII century wenn portugal rebel against Spain Catalonia did it to and the Spanish king couldn’t´t face the two rebellions, portugal was stronger so he turned the attention to Catalonia and we manage to recover our independence…

    • Zé Pires

      but I don´t have enough information to take a stand… so I am neutral on these mater

    • Zé Pires

      o google tem muita contra-informação,já não é um meio fiável, para ser honesto na analise tem de se conhecer a terra e as gentes

    • Luis Jesus Rodrigues

      pois é, quando pensamos que toda a verdade anda no Google as vezes temos surpresas….

    • António Perez

      Como em todas as fontes/meios de informação há várias faces da mesma moeda…. é depurar. mas não há muito que enganar. É o faltar ao compromisso de um tratado com muitos séculos. Foi um acto Suez. Mas a culpa é dos vários governantes que não têm a coragem de exigir aquilo que é de direito.

  72. Yolanda RG

    It’s funny how people from abroad of Spain give their opinion without knowing anything about Spain’s history and about the democratic laws which form our Constitution. Violating laws can’t be accepted . The referendum violates the Constitution. Cataluña is and has always been part of Spain and independentists aren’t a majority by far. Moreover most of them are sons and grandsons of people from other parts of Spain, mainly Andalucía, who moved there to work years algo, people quite easy to manipulate due to the inferiority complex they have and the lack of culture and perspective in most of the cases.

    • Mathieu Coquelet Ruiz

      THANK YOU FOR THIS. I am also tired of foreigners just saying “poor Catalans”, not knowing that want to split because they just don’t ti contribute to the central state budget (and indirectly help poorer Spanish regions)

    • Yolanda RG

      that´s one of the lies they have made as their slogan, since they don´t have any other argument because all this calatán issue is invented. These independent policitians just want to obtain more money or avoid the justice in their dark corruption issues…Cataluña is a privileged part of Spain with more competences than any other including an own police. Furthermore never was an independent State, before Spain was Spain, it belonged to the Corona de Aragón ( Aragon Kingdom)…

    • Yolanda RG

      See this text written by a catalan guy:

    • Yolanda RG

      Arkaitz Etxea, `LA HISTORIA NO PERDONA MITOS

      Soy un barcelonés de 30 años que, como mi generación, creció con el Club Súper 3, el Tomàtic, la Bola de Drac, la Arare , Sopa de Cabra, Els Pets, Els Caçafantasmes, “Regreso al Futuro”… Veíamos la predicción del tiempo en la TV 3, con los dibujos de soles y nubes sobre un mapa de los Países Catalanes.

      En la escuela nos explicaban la historia de las cuatro barras, pintadas por el emperador franco con la sangre de Wilfredo el Velloso sobre un escudo o tela de color amarillo-dorado: así nació nuestra bandera ( la Senyera ).

      Los domingos por la mañana bailábamos sardanas en la plaza de la Iglesia , y daba gozo ver en un mismo círculo a los abuelos y los nietos, cogidos de la mano. En Navidad hacíamos cagar al “Tió”, y poníamos un “Caganer” con barretina en el Nacimiento. Así,
      disfrutábamos de una auténtica Navidad catalana como Dios manda.

      En la primavera cogíamos las Xirucas (Chirucas ,marca de calzado) y nos íbamos a nuestros Pirineos a disfrutar de nuestras montañas y sierras, en nuestra tierra.

      Celebrábamos la “Diada”, con ánimo de no olvidarnos de la derrota de nuestro pueblo contra Felipe V y los españoles.

      Somos un pueblo trabajador, con carácter, distinto del resto. Tenemos la Caixa , el RACC, los Mozos de Escuadra y los Ferrocarriles Catalanes. ¿Qué más queremos? Pues queremos, queremos, queremos…

      Pero la verdad no se puede ocultar siempre.
      Te vas de Erasmus a Londres, y descubres que existe vida fuera de nuestro pequeño planeta catalán.
      Que también hay trabajadores con carácter en otros territorios.
      Que la Caixa no es tan importante, si se compara con el Comercial Bank of China. Que solamente una ciudad como Shanghái tiene 20 millones de personas (tres veces toda Cataluña).

      Descubres la verdad: que lo de las cuatro barras de Wifredo el Velloso sólo era una leyenda, un mito, sin fundamento histórico.
      Ni Wifredo fue contemporáneo del emperador, ni se usaba la heráldica en ese siglo. Además, hasta la unión con Aragón, el emblema de los condes de Barcelona fue la cruz de San Jorge (una cruz de gules sobre campo de plata).

      Descubres que la sardana la inventaron en el año 1817. Fue un tal Pep Ventura, que tampoco se llamaba Pep sino José, nacido en Alcalá la Real, provincia de Jaén, e hijo de un comandante del Ejército español.
      Se la inventaron, porque no podía ser que la jota de Lérida o del Campo de Tarragona fuese el baile nacional. Y tampoco podía serlo el baile denominado “El Españolito”. Por eso se inventaron la sardana a comienzos del siglo XIX: para crear una identidad nacional inexistente hasta entonces. La sardana, otro mito.

      Descubres que en 1714 no hubo ninguna guerra catalana-española, que Cataluña no participó en ninguna derrota bélica.
      Fue una guerra entre dos candidatos a la Corona de España, vacante desde la muerte de Carlos II sin descendencia: entre un candidato de la dinastía de los Borbones (de Francia) y otro de la de
      Austria (de tierras germánicas). En todos los territorios de la Corona de España hubo austracistas y borbónicos: por ejemplo, Madrid, Alcalá y Toledo lucharon en el mismo bando que Barcelona. No fue, como intentan venderlo, una guerra de secesión, sino de sucesión: ningún bando aspiró nunca a romper la unidad dinástica entre Castilla y Aragón, ni la separación de Cataluña. La Diada , otro mito.

      Descubres que el “Caganer” del belén es una “tradición” que no se generaliza hasta el siglo XIX, como la sardana. Y que el “Tió” es otra milonga identitaria y absurda. La Navidad catalana, otro mito.

      Te das cuenta que [los nacionalistas] nos han tomado el pelo. No nos han educado, sino adoctrinado. Que nos han alimentado, sin darnos cuenta, de una “ideología total” que se encuentra por encima de todo y de todos. Lo abarca todo: permite pisar el derecho de las personas, modelar la Historia a su gusto, y determinar qué está bien o mal.

      Te das cuenta que [los nacionalistas] nos han adoctrinado a través de mitos, leyendas, mentiras. Que han construido o falseado una realidad, con tal de fundamentar su ideología. Intentaré poco a poco ir comentando esos mitos. Pido ayuda y la colaboración de todos, para tratar de encontrar otras mentiras. Así, [los catalanes] podremos liberarnos de esos mitos, y ser libres de verdad.

      Está claro que eso de viajar, es para algunos, una estupenda vacuna.contra la estupidez y el aldeanismo…¨

    • Yolanda RG

      But they have a good marketing team, of that I¨m sure! It happened the same with the Vasque Country terrorism…In some countries they were seen as victims and conquered by the Spaniards! whereas happens the same as with the Catalans, they´ve never been an independent land and killing people is not the way of requesting anything ever!!!

  73. Yolanda RG

    Violating the country ‘s Constitution can’t be allowed. What they pretend has a name: coup d’état.

  74. Esteve Tremosa

    Yes, of course! The borders in XXI century should be changed just voting! Like Scotland or Quebec, who decided to stay with their current States.

  75. J Pedro Cav

    Why not to listen to the people? This region has its own culture, language…they deserve at least to have a word to say

    • Dániel Kiss

      Yes, but with proper legal safeguards…

    • Mònica Gonyalons

      We are waiting for those proper legal safeguards for, at least, 3 centuries!! Please, don’t treat us as if we were children!!! We all are adults and know what type is the Kingdom of Spain!!

    • Juan Sanchez Carrasco Cobos

      Mònica Gonyalons that’s precisely why you don’t have any right to independence. You have just said something completely out from real History of Spain (and Catalonia)

      The story (not history) of Catalonia that have been taught at school in Catalonia for 30 years is completely FALSE. The modern feeling of independence comes from something which is a lie.

      Catalonia always was a part of the Spanish nation, Catalonia was a foundational partner of the Spanish State, based on the previous idea of the historical Spanish nation. Catalonia was never a country nor a kingdom or a crown.

      A feeling of independence based on a lie is not legitimate at all.

    • Antek Milosc

      The have no basement for the self-determination they are claiming for. Catalonia has always been a part of Spain, has never been a colony and has never been invaded by Spain. So, the historical-cultural fact is false, and the economical fact is not 100% true: of course is one of the richest regiona fron Spain, but Catalonia’s debt inside the countrie is about 1/3 of the total debt of the autonomous regions…
      Other important thing is the social movement. Since 30 years ago catalonian institutions has been kidnapped by some kind of independent ideology which is creating their own history and washing the brain of children. As can be seen nowadays they are manipulating youn children making them going to pro independence meetings and acts against the country. They are just chikdren and they are making them embrace an ideology based in a terrorist group called Terra Lliure which is the one that created independents flag.

      So, because is based on lies, manipulation and anti-system ideology near terrorism, this “self-determination” movement of Catalonia’s independentists should not be even considerated. This if we look into the basis. In a short term, Spanish constitution is clear about that and independentist crue has not only violated Spanish constitution but also Catalonia’s Parlament rules by passing out laws with a simole majority and without letting opposition study it.

      If this is not autorutarism…

    • Anna Lozano

      Juan Sanchez Carrasco Cobos and Antek Milosc, you are both completely wrong. We have all the legitimate rights to be independent and away from a country which is a disguised dictatorship, full of corrupted politicians (all around the country, of course) and full of lies. You have no idea whatsoever of the kind of history which has been and is being taught in Catalonia. You’d better study some good history to help you clarify some aspects you seem to misunderstand. Maybe it was the STORY you were told the one that was a LIE and didn’t correspond to the real facts??

    • Inés Vilches

      Of course Anna, it’s better to always tell your sad story. Spain is a corrupted country (as much as Catalan regional Govern in last 30 years) indeed, but far from dictatorial.
      As far as I know you can talk your own languague, manage health and taxes and have your own police.
      The power demonstration of the Government in past weeks (which personally
      I think it’s wrong approach) is a response to an illegal referendum.

      Abandon this foolishness and fight for a proper referendum, where people will get right info on consequences of their vote.

  76. Emil Panayotoff

    Politically Spain is a Eu member already and as our partner we should listen to what Spain has to say on the matter. This is an internal question they should resolve alone. Yes if Spain agrees with that, we can then recognise this territory as an independent new state. I only wish Spain finds the best solution for everybody and listens to their people. The way the EU functions, we will never be able to accept this territory as an independent member state without the agreement of Spain and, thus as a consequence, it is not up to us to say what should or should not happen. I think you could even delete this stupid question . As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past and this territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.

    • Aniol Gutiérrez

      With your policy of “non-intervention because it is an internal affair” you are aproving Spanish massive political repression of last weeks.

    • Emil Panayotoff

      Aniol Gutiérrez I don’t approve anything and I don’t disaprove anything. From what I hear this referendum is completely illegal and people have been listened more than once on the question and they always said they wanted to be part of Spain. My personal opinion is that these things should stop and they help nobody. Barcelona will always be Spain for me. However, the best thing is not to intervene at all as we can’t change anything except make things worse so this should stay an internal Spanish question. There are other regions in Spain and many other countries with different languages. In this case let’s devide Italy too. I am tired of this bullshit. It all comes from greedy people who don’t want to pay taxes. Maybe we don’t give any water to Barcelona when it all dries out the next time ?

    • Jeff Greensmith

      Emil Panatoyoff:
      “The way the EU functions” – perhaps the real issue is how Spain functions?
      “I think you could even delete this stupid question” – you are joking, right?
      “As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past…”
      – everyone who voted is now 60 or more, many are no longer with us and it can be argued that the vote on the constitution was held under the shadow of the dictatorship.
      “… This territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.” – That is Spain’s interpretation of course, it will be interesting to see if all other countries see it that way. Time will tell.

    • Emil Panayotoff

      Spanish interpretation ? I am specialist in international law 😉 and I am not Spanish. Things are far from being that easy to explain on Facebook. I have no time to get into more details here :)

    • Marti Vidal Traves

      Spain listen his people??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
      For them It’s easier sent the police to kick out the population

  77. Emil Panayotoff

    Politically Spain is a Eu member already and as our partner we should listen to what Spain has to say on the matter. This is an internal question they should resolve alone. Yes if Spain agrees with that, we can then recognise this territory as an independent new state. I only wish Spain finds the best solution for everybody and listens to their people. The way the EU functions, we will never be able to accept this territory as an independent member state without the agreement of Spain and, thus as a consequence, it is not up to us to say what should or should not happen. I think you could even delete this stupid question . As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past and this territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.

  78. Emil Panayotoff

    Politically Spain is a Eu member already and as our partner we should listen to what Spain has to say on the matter. This is an internal question they should resolve alone. Yes if Spain agrees with that, we can then recognise this territory as an independent new state. I only wish Spain finds the best solution for everybody and listens to their people. The way the EU functions, we will never be able to accept this territory as an independent member state without the agreement of Spain and, thus as a consequence, it is not up to us to say what should or should not happen. I think you could even delete this stupid question . As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past and this territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.

  79. Emil Panayotoff

    Politically Spain is a Eu member already and as our partner we should listen to what Spain has to say on the matter. This is an internal question they should resolve alone. Yes if Spain agrees with that, we can then recognise this territory as an independent new state. I only wish Spain finds the best solution for everybody and listens to their people. The way the EU functions, we will never be able to accept this territory as an independent member state without the agreement of Spain and, thus as a consequence, it is not up to us to say what should or should not happen. I think you could even delete this stupid question . As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past and this territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.

  80. Emil Panayotoff

    Politically Spain is a Eu member already and as our partner we should listen to what Spain has to say on the matter. This is an internal question they should resolve alone. Yes if Spain agrees with that, we can then recognise this territory as an independent new state. I only wish Spain finds the best solution for everybody and listens to their people. The way the EU functions, we will never be able to accept this territory as an independent member state without the agreement of Spain and, thus as a consequence, it is not up to us to say what should or should not happen. I think you could even delete this stupid question . As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past and this territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.

  81. Emil Panayotoff

    Politically Spain is a Eu member already and as our partner we should listen to what Spain has to say on the matter. This is an internal question they should resolve alone. Yes if Spain agrees with that, we can then recognise this territory as an independent new state. I only wish Spain finds the best solution for everybody and listens to their people. The way the EU functions, we will never be able to accept this territory as an independent member state without the agreement of Spain and, thus as a consequence, it is not up to us to say what should or should not happen. I think you could even delete this stupid question . As far as International law is concerned, people already clearly and democratically expressed their desire to be part of Spain in the past and this territory does not reach all the requirements for a state to be recognised internationally at this present moment as per the definition of a state in international law.

  82. Eduardo Sanjuán Arias

    Sigh, the catalan government tried to override the Spanish Constitution, document 90% of the catalans voted in its day. They are doing this illegaly, with no regard to the rest of the spaniards and with no economical or historical reasons to back them up.

    They are doing this to cover up their financial incompetence and the corruption cases that are crawling up their backs.

    By the way, voting is not illegal. What is illegal is to organize a referendum with no control, no organization and with funds from all spaniards.

    As a fun fact, today the central government has given Catalonia 1971 MILLION euros from the emergency regional funds. That is a third of the funds that has to be shared between all regions. Yet they keep telling 8 year olds in schools how evil lazy and dirty spaniards steal from them. Old school nationalism at its worst.

    • Vasco Mantas

      Why should other spaniards decide the future of Catalonia? (Did the welsh vote in the Scottish referendum??) Isn’t that kind of thinking that lead to this mess in the first place? The only reason why the referendum is held without controls is because Madrid is not letting them to do it properly. I’m not saying I stand with the secessionists, but the Generalitat can’t take all the blame on this one…

    • Eduardo Sanjuán Arias

      The problem here is that there are mechanisms on which the catalans can vote. They can change the constitution (thing that is impossible in many countries of the EU) and then do it. The cosntitution was voted by all spaniards (including 90% of the catalans).The problem here is that the independentists spat on that and did it with no regard to our common laws. That is the problem here. Its not voting but how the votation is done.

    • Eduardo Sanjuán Arias

      The problem here is that there are mechanisms on which the catalans can vote. They can change the constitution (thing that is impossible in many countries of the EU) and then do it. The constitution was voted by all spaniards (including 90% of the catalans).The problem here is that the independentists spat on that and did it with no regard to our common laws. That is the problem here. Its not voting but how the votation is done.

    • Gund Hramn

      Try to find those 90% of catalans that voted the constitution. I never heard about them, and the few I found did this becouse they spend near 50 years of fascist repression, and this was better than nothing.

    • Adrian McManus

      As usual, foreigners with ni puta idea giving it large on what’s best for Spain &/or Catalonia. This is not a dispute between states or even former states. Butt out, ffs.

    • Enric Sensecognom

      How many lies have you said? Only ten ?

      Come on, you can make your fantasy much better. Add a thousand lies and turn it into a film, your dear fascist government will fund it.

    • Eduardo Sanjuán Arias

      Its so funny how you independentists say I am lying but yet I have to be told where. Please tell me.

    • Daniel Conde

      That constitution was made in 1978. You speak like you were there. Were you? Neither did I. It’s unchangeable cause 2/3 of the chamber are needed to modify any article, and the current main parties are opposed to celebrate any referendum. Who are you trying to fool?

    • Eduardo Sanjuán Arias

      No one, constitutions are not changed because they dont suit your desires. The main parties are opposed to the referendum, this parties represent the majority of the spaniards. Enough said

    • Daniel Conde

      Thats why we vote our own ones, to make our own laws. A 7million population land cant do anything when theyre ruled by 40 million who are against.

  83. Olga

    Europe is late and lagging. The Catalans have decided they want to vote, and vote they will tomorrow. Moreover, they have decided to count the votes and act accordingly, and act they will. They believe in Europe, but History has taught them not to expect anything from anyone.

  84. Luis Hernandez-toribio

    The basis of shallow: just the hate ( racist hate) to the peopke of another territories. That’s true the economical decline, but this decline us not unique and Catalonia and mainly is produced by local corruption: an endemic Spanish trouble. The philosophical basis majes us to worry: the Idealistic Romanticism from Herder to Heidegger. Very far from the clear Enlightenment!

  85. Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

    The essential difference between Scotland and Catalonia is..:

    Scotland has never been part of England; not for 1 single minute.
    Catalonia has ALWAYS be part of Spain and listen to the news:
    it will always be

    Nationationalists=Secessionists control the education and the regional TV and use both for propaganda and hate.
    Nonetheless, they have never reached a social majority in votes as the results of last regional legal elections showed.

    • Luis Nostromo

      Hate? The hate is Spanish side, in Catalonia there is no hate, there is illusion
      We are gonna vote

    • Jordi Matute

      Hahahahahahha oh my god! Catalunya is antifascist. That’s why they don’t like us. Cuz they live under a goverment formed by the dictator Franco Ministers. We don’t want Monarchy. We want to be fee. Visca Catalunya!!

    • Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

      CORRECT: separatists have ‘illusion’ which in English means “something which (or some politicians as here) who deceive by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.”
      Additionally, there is a majority of Catalan people who are fed up with this farce and division provoked by irresponsible politicians.
      All Western governments know that and they also do not want any supremacist and secessionist movement in Europe like this one.
      The purpose of a European Union is precisely the opposite.

      CORRECT: we [Catalans as well as the rest of Spaniards] will vote in the upcoming regional elections. Then, in the local ones; afterwards, in the Spanish national ones and so on and so forth. Those are the rules of the game!
      Something that affects 47 million people cannot be decided by less than half of the people in a part of the nation. The International legislation and our State of Law protects the sovereignty of the 47 million citizens in all corners of our Spanish nation.
      If you want to change something, you have to proceed with the law on your side. Europe is not “the jungle”.

    • Veronica Escandell Feliu

      You wish…
      And btw all the hate comes from the Spanish fascists and the poor knowledge of the Catalan society from their side…

    • Madeline Herlihy

      Why has the Catalan government never allowed one of their regions called Aran to be independent? They demand for themselves what they’re not prepared to give to others. I have no respect for their principales.

  86. Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

    The essential difference between Scotland and Catalonia is..:

    Scotland has never been part of England; not for 1 single minute.
    Catalonia has ALWAYS be part of Spain and listen to the news:
    it will always be

    Nationationalists=Secessionists control the education and the regional TV and use both for propaganda and hate.
    Nonetheless, they have never reached a social majority in votes as the results of last regional legal elections showed.

  87. Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

    The essential difference between Scotland and Catalonia is..:

    Scotland has never been part of England; not for 1 single minute.
    Catalonia has ALWAYS be part of Spain and listen to the news:
    it will always be

    Nationationalists=Secessionists control the education and the regional TV and use both for propaganda and hate.
    Nonetheless, they have never reached a social majority in votes as the results of last regional legal elections showed.

  88. Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

    The essential difference between Scotland and Catalonia is..:

    Scotland has never been part of England; not for 1 single minute.
    Catalonia has ALWAYS be part of Spain and listen to the news:
    it will always be

    Nationationalists=Secessionists control the education and the regional TV and use both for propaganda and hate.
    Nonetheless, they have never reached a social majority in votes as the results of last regional legal elections showed.

  89. Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

    The essential difference between Scotland and Catalonia is..:

    Scotland has never been part of England; not for 1 single minute.
    Catalonia has ALWAYS be part of Spain and listen to the news:
    it will always be

    Nationationalists=Secessionists control the education and the regional TV and use both for propaganda and hate.
    Nonetheless, they have never reached a social majority in votes as the results of last regional legal elections showed.

  90. Santiago Valenzuela Mainar

    The essential difference between Scotland and Catalonia is..:

    Scotland has never been part of England; not for 1 single minute.
    Catalonia has ALWAYS be part of Spain and listen to the news:
    it will always be

    Nationationalists=Secessionists control the education and the regional TV and use both for propaganda and hate.
    Nonetheless, they have never reached a social majority in votes as the results of last regional legal elections showed.

  91. Federico Rossi

    Yes, but after a referendum that change the spanis costitution and another regular one that let Catalonia became independent.

  92. David Viñals

    Yes, of course. In democrazy the first is people opinion. And when the law does’nt recognice this sould be changed it

    • Juan Ramon Civera Gil

      The right to chance the law constitucion depend of the whole spanish people.

    • David Viñals

      No. In Scootland only voted scotish people, in Quebeb only Quebec people and the Brexit only brittish, no all european.

    • David Viñals

      What day is referendum day??

  93. Gund Hramn

    Who is the UE to tell what to is right and what is wrong? The destiny of a people belongs to themselves.

    • Juan Sanchez Carrasco Cobos

      Depends on everyone affected:

      quod omnes tangit omnibus tractari et approbari debet

      Even so, Catalonia (nor any other Spanish territory) wouldn’t have a right to self-determination.

    • Gund Hramn

      It is easy to defend the laws when you write them for your own benefit and against others.

  94. Marcos

    I am spaniard, i would be sad if catalonia end up appart from the rest of Spain because of incompetence of our political class, always well behind the spanish society. Given any possible scenario i will never accept Catalonia to be expelled out of the EU. If Catalonia, Barcelona and all the people we know living there end up out of the EU in my opinion it may be anything but senseless harm. I don`t even think this could be actually possible.

    • Vicente Silva Tavares

      Luis Morales, na verdade é a esquerda que é mais independentista e a direita mais lealista a Madrid. Se não acredita investigue. Ainda ontem na TV numa reportagem uma mulher confirmava isso ao vivo.

  95. Vicente Silva Tavares

    Independentemente de se ser a favor ou contra a independência da Catalunha, é um direito inalienável dos povos poderem decidir o seu futuro. Assim aconteceu na Checoslováquia, assim aconteceu na Escócia e assim deveria ter acontecido em Catalunha. O governo de Dirieita espanhol está a conduzir pessimamente o processo. Com a repressão, todos os catalões que eram contra ou indiferentes à independência são agora a favor. O governo espanhol promoveu a causa independentista com as suas acções. Só falta algum catalão morrer para a causa se radicalizar ainda mais.

    • JuSan Rod

      Vicente Silva, su versión del asunto es la simplista que argumentan los adoctrinadores de la mentira. Ni Cataluña es igual que Escocia ni que Checoslovaquia. La historia es la que es, y Cataluña nunca ha sido una nación independiente, ni nunca ha sido conquistada, ni es una colonia. Simplemente, lee historia, pero historia verdadera, no la inventada y tergiversada que enseñan por aquella querida comunidad catalana. Apoyaría usted la disgregación de su país?

    • Vicente Silva Tavares

      JuSan Rod Cataluña always had fought for its independence along Spanish History. Cataluña had been the people of Spain that most suffered from the Franco regime. Cataluña has all conditions to be independent, it is a different people, it has its own identity, its own language. More factors actually than Scotland that mostly speak English and not Gaelic. If the Spanish government was more democratic would negociate the form to reach a referendum. May be would happen the same as in Scotland. I am not a supporter of independence of Cataluña but, I support their right to have a referendum. Shutting them up is not democratic. And remember, you still occupy illegally Portuguese territory that you never returned even though you signed the international treaty that obliges you to do it This colonial attitude of Castilla goes up even to neighbouring nations You talk about Gibraltar but you forget Olivenza conveniently.

    • Dolores Ozaez Vidal

      Cataluña jamas fue independiente pertenecio al Reino de Aragon. Nunca hubo una ocupacion, no es Escocia. Y se quiere secesion tendremos q votar todos los españoles.

    • Edlir Habili

      JuSan Rod your judgement is wrong, as far as i have read the reasons are not just ethnical, it is not fair that they pay taxes to madrid and madrid gives nothing in return, also, following your logic, spain would never grant independence to argentina, as they had not a legacy of statehood… in 21st century such discourses are already exhausted , especially in Europe, if there is will for indipendence, let the people in question decide, it is their choice to make, not madrid’s

    • Edlir Habili

      Dolores Ozaez Vidal there is always a first time, even the referendum was to much, representatives could simply hold an extraordinary session and declare independence, as simple as that.

    • Vicente Silva Tavares

      Dolores Ozaez Vidal , Esto es como una boda en la que la mujer quiere divorciarse y el marido no lo deja. Como en las bodas musulmanas. Aunque prefería que España se mantuviera una, como demócrata tengo que reconocer el derecho al voto de los catalanes y de decidir salir. Eslovaquia hizo un referendo y salió. Escocia hizo un referéndum y se quedó. La gente debe tener el derecho de decidir. Creo que sabe menos de la historia de Cataluña que yo. Lo que escribí fue que Cataluña siempre luchó por su independencia. En realidad, Cataluña fue independiente por breves períodos.

  96. Paul Kuiper

    If negotiations between Spain and Catalonia result in an independent Catalonia, the EU should be open to the possibility of admitting Catalonia as a new member. As long as this is not the case, the EU should stay out of it. We should not interfere, and certainly not encourage a secession, otherwise we we will accrue much anti-EU resentement in Spain.

  97. Jordi De Sant Cugat

    If the people who live in Catalonia decide to leave from Spain and become free, all EU have to respect and if we have to travel forever into the galatic space as the ex foreign minister Margallo said, we will do it. It’s a specific domestic problem, that takes place Only in Catalonia. Nobody should treat in this way the catalan voice. For instance, if this region has to leave from this union, who only think in the powder and not in the people, then it won’t be the end for us. We will live better without listening and obeying the big devil voices of the EU.

    • Teresa Del Riego Sánchez

      I agree with you. It’s a domestic problem but a Spanish problem. And… you wrote Catalonia is a region, for me is more than that. It’s a nation inside a great country, Spain

  98. Miquel Santi

    Yes. Catalonia is not Spain and wants to stay away from spanish corrupt goverment building a new nation. EU should recognize Catalunya to have a fresh valuable asset among its members.

    • Maria Heras

      Did you ask all the people in Catalonia? As far as I remember, most of the people in Catalonia wont leave Spain. However, the spanish law says that such a decission has to be taken by all the spanish citizens and never before Constitución changes. So, whatever happens tomorrow will be illegal.

    • Enric Sensecognom

      “did you ask all the people in Catalonia?”

      Oh God. How can you be so hypocrite? Asking this is what the Spanish government has banned. What do you think is the referendum about?

    • Miquel Santi

      Indicative that majority of people saying no are spaniards. They don’ t want us to stay with them, they just want our money.

    • Madeline Herlihy

      Your money?? You have a debt of 77m euros, which you refuse to pay to the Spanish state if you become independent!!!!

    • Quique Navarro Camacho

      🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸 un español más 🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸 mírate el DNI jajajjaj ! Y ahora repite … Puta España! ….. 😂😂😂😂😂 pero mirándote al espejo ! Que tristeza dais los independentistas !!

  99. Luis Jesus Rodrigues

    No, impossible. No democratic agenda or, process was respected. Where was the time given to debate, discuss, change views, etc.? This is an ilegal, imoral, and anti-democratic coup organized by a dangerous group that happen to be in the Catalan Government right now… Spain must not permit it.

    • Sergi Macián Ribera

      Listillo, dos cosas:
      1. los políticos se han adaptado a lo que el pueblo ha querido. Mas y muchos otros no habían sido nunca independentistas. No estamos donde ellos han querido, sino nosotros.
      2. Se dieron dos semanas para hacer campaña y debates del sí y del no, pero al ser declarado ilegal por el tribunal constitucional politizado pues los del ‘no’, no se han pronunciado más que para decir que la gente no vote. Bueno, al final quien más campaña del si ha hecho ha sido el propio Rajoy.

  100. Germán Sánchez González

    EU was born as a result of the terrible outcomes of nationalism. If EU becomes an ally of nationalist movements if would be the biggest failure in our common history ever.

  101. Quim

    Yes!! The spanish goverment its continuously assaulting Catalonia with its political decisions.

  102. Antonio

    As seen, it is a complex question to deal with, a conflict between reason and illusion; there are basic questions though we should take into account. Is the so-called “Catalonian process” recognised and supported by the Spanish legal frame? Must they follow the game plan or they are different than the Galician, Valencian, Andalucian and so on? Don’t favour their arguments, the focus is totally diverted from the real problems of the region.The problem is about disinformation and lying…

  103. Txili Ivan JM

    No. No this one, main reasons being: (i) this referendum was organized by the yes, (ii) there was no campaign or debate, (iii) noone really explained/clarified what would happen if Cataluña becomes independent (will they still remain part of the EU, who will pay their debt, what would happen with people, will they have to decide if they have to renounce to Spanish nationality? Could they keep both, most important, will FC Barcelona still play in the same league than R. Madrid,… ) so people don’t even fully know what they are going to vote for… , (iv) I could list more reasons but i think I those are already enough to make my point. Having said that, i believe that Cataluña, same as the rest of historical autonomous regions of Spain, should have the right to decide about their future; hence, the Spanish government should guarantee the celebration of this type of referendums.

    • Xaquín Pérez-Sindín

      Txili Ivan JM all these issues haven’t been explained because there has been no negotiation thus far. Spanish Parliament, including government and opposition have rejected the mere celebration of a consultation in 2014 after being approved by majority of Catalan parliamentarians. Consultation means only that, consultation. Constitutional Tribunal rejected reforms of Catalan Statute again and over again over the last 10 years. So the other side has always and systematically been against any attempt to vote. And that is precisely the reason why we arrived to this situation. Because up to 77% of Catalans want to vote (including people who would vote no) This is not a problem of independence, it is a problem of democracy and EU should be on the top

    • Enric Sensecognom

      The anti-independence parties and organisations are simply against any sort of referendum. They said it many times and there is was no way to convince them. They aren’t against the day, the question or anything specific, they just don’t want us to vote.

      The current referendum was already organised to be as fair as possible, but we cannot force people to do an official campaign if they don’t want to.

      Still, we live in a permanent unofficial campaign. Spanish nationalists made speeches and events these days, and they control almost all media which makes Spanish nationalist propaganda all the time.

      I hope that comment about football was a joke.

    • Txili Ivan JM

      You are both mixing subjects here. Of course the position of the Spanish government in this matter is wrong and has been wrong since many years (I thought I already made my opinion about that clear), but that is not the question here, the question is if we should accept the result of THIS referendum. All I’m trying to say is that this referendum does not have enough democratic guarantees (its not even sure that all people will be able to vote as police has been ordered to close the polling places… What if in the end the participation is on the range of 30%…). I see it more as another act of protest, and it has my support as that, but a declaration of independence based on the result of this referendum wouldn’t be legitimate.
      P.S. Of course the FC Barcelona thing was a joke…

    • Carmen De Cárdenas Maestre

      The truth is that for having a legal referendum, it is necessary to modify article 1.2 of the Spanish Constitution. This article is part of the “main body” of the Spanish Constitution and requires a referendum in all Spain for aproving the change and, after that, new Estatutes in each region, including, or not, how to convoque a referendum. As far as I know, the catalonian government never has asked for changing the Constitution, as they don’t want the spanish citizens to vote (not even in deciding if Spain is or not a Federal Country, as happened in 2014).
      Regarding this referendum, the catalan goverment began the campaign dividing the catalan citizens between “good catalans” (those ones who want to vote) and “bad catalans” (the other ones). And we should not forget that the don’t have even enough votes in the Parlament for changing the Estatud (they need 90), so it seems that they’re trying to win in the street what they lost in the last pool.
      Finally, Xaquin, it is not truth that the Constitutional Court has rejected reforms of Catalan Statute “again and over again” in the last 10 years. The Catalanian Estatute 2006 is on force, and the Court only declares inconstitutional a few articles of the Law.

    • Mawdo Jawo

      Whats Narnia? Or you mean Trump’s Nambia?

  104. Ion

    No, it should not. The EU has to stand by the constitutional order of its member states, which has in every case been subject to close examination prior to every country’s accession to the Union. Every member state’s constitution is, therefore, a democratic constitution that has to be respected at all times, as it is the foundation of the rule of law and of the rights of every citizen.
    Spain’s constitution, unlike those of many other democracies in Europe, doesn’t exclude the possibility of rewriting the article regarding the sovereignty of the Spanish people. Catalan separatists have a legal path to achieve their aspirations. But they know they cannot achieve their goals sticking to the law (overwhelmingly approved by catalans, by the way) so they have engaged in a years long campaign of difamation and erosion of the legitimacy of the Spanish rule, invoking the old nationalist mystical principles of the rights of peoples and territories. They have unashamedly lied about international law and the concept of self determination. That’s not what Europe is about. Europe, as all modern democracies, is about the right of the citizens, about the protection of their individual rights, not about the legitimization of tribal and territorial (nonexistent) rights, that are nothing but an aspiration to suppress other’s rights.

  105. Miguel Bruni

    We just don’t care anymore here in Barcelona. Europe is in the end full of lies and broken promises. Europe left us alone with 10.000 foreign police in Barcelona saying Spain was doing right. No it is not Turkey or Russia. It is 00:21 and I cannot sleep tginking of those spanish police to stop me from voting. Yes in the heart of Europe. Europeans come all for holidays to Barcelona but not for freedom.

  106. Ion Clavero

    No, it should not. The EU has to stand by the constitutional order of its member states, which has in every case been subject to close examination prior to every country’s accession to the Union. Every member state’s constitution is, therefore, a democratic constitution that has to be respected at all times, as it is the foundation of the rule of law and of the rights of every citizen.
    Spain’s constitution, unlike those of many other democracies in Europe, doesn’t exclude the possibility of rewriting the article regarding the sovereignty of the Spanish people. Catalan separatists have a legal path to achieve their aspirations. But they know they cannot achieve their goals sticking to the law (overwhelmingly approved by catalans, by the way) so they have engaged in a years long campaign of difamation and erosion of the legitimacy of the Spanish rule, invoking the old nationalist mystical principles of the rights of peoples and territories. They have unashamedly lied about international law and the concept of self determination. That’s not what Europe is about. Europe, as all modern democracies, is about the right of the citizens, about the protection of their individual rights, not about the legitimization of tribal and territorial (nonexistent) rights, that are nothing but an aspiration to suppress other’s rights.

  107. From Catalonia

    Yes. We have the right to vote and decide. All laws (including the Spanish Constitution) have been written under certain circumstances. Laws must be reviewed, rewritten and modified if we want to think that our countries are democratic. The Spanish Constitution was written in 1978, after Franco’s death. It has never been reviewed or modified.
    The Spanish politicians say: “This is illegal. The Constitution doesn’t allow a referendum”. But they have never tried to give us good reasons except “a law written 40 years ago”.

    Laws change: women couldn’t vote, work, divorce until the laws were changed because a majority wanted them to change and update to the modern times.
    Now, there’s a majority who wants to decide “yes or no”. But the PM has send thousands of police to Catalonia. They have already arrested and judge people for their political ideologies.
    I don’t want to live in such a dictatorship country. Yes, I am afraid of my freedom to vote in this called “democratic” country called Spain.
    In conclusion, I don’t know whether an independent Catalonia will be a better country to live but we want to try it.

  108. Oriol Castells Ferrer

    This is not about independence but about democracy, Spain is violating fundamental human rights while they keep financing extremist institutions like the Francisco Franco Foundation (can you imagine an Adolf Hitler Foundation in Germany? This happens in Spain!). The EU shall rethink their commitment to Human Rights and allow Catalans to vote

  109. Xavier

    Catalonia sells over 60% of its exports to Spain alone. Spain has invested millions of euros on Catalonia. despite it being the most productive region of spain and paying more to Madrid than other communities, its wealth is a byproduct of the current cooperation between the two, and would not be such by any means,if it were not connected to Spain, so saying that Spain “steals” from catalonia is a lie. young people have been adoctrinated in schools for years to reject spanish culture and even hate anything related to the country, promoting only their own culture, language and traditions and even modififying historical facts .Unlike Scotland ,Catalonia was never a kingdom, nor was it brutally conquered and massacred like Scotland was. Catalonia is not under repression nor abuse by the rest of Spain, on the contrary, it has been given freedom , respect and allowance to have their government , language, police etc.. Catalonia benefits massively from Spain and Spain does so as well from Catalonia, a symbiosis relationship. Catalonia belonged to the kingdom of Aragon historically, never was it a nation nor kingdom .catalan is one of spain’s many languages, spoken in the Valencian community and balearic islands ,it doesn’t belong to them. catalan is also spoken in Andorra, a different country, it does not define them as different or unique either. they have shared history as well as shared genetics, catalans have been spaniards for over 400 years. politicians have manipulated citizens and used nationalism very intelligently over the past years and it has deeply rooted in young generation’s hearts to very unsuspected limits, where little can be done to reverse it. young children are used in demonstrations etc.. as a political tool, despite them not being able to judge by themselves or have their own judmental ideas. About 50% of the population do not want to separate from Spain, but they are opressed and critized and they even fear expressing their desire to remain in Spain, making nationalists rather radicals. A series of lies and manipulation have , as a result, fraccionated the catalan society and has led to this problem which has no real solution. only dialogue, truth and common sense can help both Spain and Catalonia have a future other than a total ruin.

  110. Enric Sensecognom

    The European Union must start to sanction Spain as response to its repressive and antidemocratic policies. Start with some big fines and later expulse it.

    • Jose Macias Garcia

      La unión europea lo q tiene q hacer condenar a los se an saltados la Constitución, y a esos q quieren tapar esos políticos chorizos q an robado en Cataluña.

    • Madeline Herlihy

      Freedom?? What language do your kids study in? Catalan, right? In fact, they study English before Spanish and they study more hours in English than Spanish! That’s like the Welsh studying French before English (incredible) – and you have the freedom to do that, don’t you? The independence movement has arrived to this point simple because you’ve had the freedom to do it. Do you think we are blind or something or just stupid?

    • Gonzalo Duran Malave

      El referéndum es ilegal lo mires por donde lo mires se supone que en Cataluña es bilingüe y deben dar por lo menos 25 por ciento en las escuelas y Catalunya no lo cumple ,más claro agua

  111. Andreas Pishias

    If one wants to change borders and create new states in Europe then they should pay the price. EU exclusion. Regardless of its shortcomings… Which are important it still is the best bet to avoid other wars.

    • Christopher Wapf

      No problem. Catalonia has a very important PIB. We can also associate with USA, China… there are many possibilities

    • Norman Garcia

      A GDP that is extremely dependent on domestic economy taking into account that Catalonia exports more to Aragon than anywhere else, plus it has a huge debt and quite a low score not allowing Catalonia to take loans out directly from financial agencies but has do to so through the central government. And it’s very doubtful that the U.S. will support Catalonia since Spain has been quite an ally to them plus their own legal system bans unilateral secession and on top of that the U.S. is a benchmark for constitutionalism, rule of law and democracy. Doubt they would support Catalonia’s blatant disregard for the law. China? With their own independentist movements in Tibet, Macao, Hong Kong and Taiwan? Think again.

  112. Madeline

    Absolutely not! It’s a violation of the Spanish Constitution. What is more, the Catalan government approved their own law of referendum with only 72 votes in favour when by their own laws, they need 90 votes! This is a totalitarian government that should not exist in Europe. It’s tyrannical at the least!

    • Rémi Martin

      Yes, but please say it in catalan, not in the language of the master!

    • Pietr Borrull

      Catalunya lliure fora de la Unió Europea! Gràcies. :)

    • Yolanda RG

      Cataluña doesn´t want it. Just some of them. And Cataluña is and has always belonged to Spain and before to the Crown of Aragon, Read a bit of history before giving an opinion, please , and stop watching gossig and tabloids!

    • Pietr Borrull

      Who cares about a biased piece of history? We have the right to govern ourselves and under the EU thats not possible.

  113. Petr Hott

    No, but it should also condemn violent actions taken by the government.

    • Yolanda RG

      violent actions? Police was defending themselves and the Spanish Constutition, the integrity of the country and for that the inmense majority of Spanish population.

    • Yolanda RG

      You should now what you talk about before saying anything, and at least consult a history book to get to know that Cataluña has never been an independent country.

  114. Marcel

    We need to support those who want freedom and reject centralist tyranny. Catalans should reject Rajoy (who is acting as the second coming of Franco) and we should reject unelected Juncker and his pro-banker pals.

  115. Thanos

    Europe must recognize Catalonia but am not quite sure if Catalonia needs to recognize Europe…

  116. Ivan Burrows

    Brussels hates the idea of anyone being independent because it goes against their antidemocratic goal of creating a unwanted United states of Europe, so why would they recognise Catatonia’s ?

    • Rémi Martin

      As it didn’t recognise the french NO of 2005! ;)

  117. ANGEL

    La cuestión está es que la “constitución” de Cataluña , el estatuto, aprobado en el 2006 por TODO el pueblo de Cataluña. Exige un 66% de votos para pedir la independencia. NUNCA se ha alcanzado esa mayoría. Las últimas elecciones en Cataluña 2015 se plantearon como un referéndum X la independencia . Los partidos independentistas obtuvieron 48 % de los votos. Como no admitieron la derrota, de forma unilateral y prescindiendo del resto del Parlamento catalán y sus normas y mayorías plantean este referéndum. Los catalanes ya votaron y dijeron no. Lo primero que tienen que hacer es obtener 2/3 de los votos en el Parlamento Catalan (que no lo lograron) como paso previo a pedir un referéndumal Estado español. Los que no permiten votar ni han respetado la democracia son los partidos independentistas que no aceptaron su derrota en las urnas por el pueblo catalán

  118. Raphael M Espan

    The pseudoreferendum was not even debated in the catalonian parliament. It was pushed by the CUP, junqueras and Puigdemont. Not really democratic. By the way their reasons/motives (mostly based on lies and fake facts) to leave are not really noble and go against the EU spirit.

  119. Norman Garcia

    Rules of law MUST PREVAIL. The answer is NO. If they wish to vote on it they must do it through the legal ways, living in democracy is also accepting that sometimes we will get a negative answer, that not always will we have it our way.

    • Norman Garcia

      Constitutional reform, proposal to the National Congress and a nation-wide vote where the conscriptions are the Autonomous Communities. This way you’d see the actual vote in each Community, including Catalonia. Lengthy yet possible, just because you don’t like the law doesn’t mean you can jump over it.

    • Daniel Marin Ch

      Voting can not be prohibited under a democracy

    • Anna Raymi

      Yes daniel, but the voting needs to be legal. This one is not…. Puigdemont changed more laws in catalonia in the last weeks than never saw… And these laws that he changed were aproved democratically by all catalans

    • Norman Garcia

      Daniel Marin Ch you should brush up on your reading. Voting is not illegal nor prohibited in Spain. The current constitution was approved by over 90% of Catalans, which included the fact that Spain was indivisible. Hence why secession cannot be voted on. Plus democracy DOES NOT only mean “voting”. It means, rule of law, fundamental rights, constitutionalism etc. Much more than simply casting a vote.

    • Cristian Ruiz Altaba

      The rules have been broken by the Spanish goverment: a referendum is perfectly legal in Spain, and every move by this wicked government has been tyrannical and illegal.

    • Norman Garcia

      Cristian referendums are perfectly legal, what’s not legal is to go over the Constitutional Court, to vote on something that cannot be voted, to assume that the sovereignty of Cataluña doesn’t lie in the whole of the Spanish people. The Generalitat did in fact approve loads of laws without much debate or amending as long as they would work in favor of the independence, whilst also going against its own Statute of Independence. They forget that not all of us want independence. Half of us don’t support this circus.

  120. Paul Cox

    No, because Catalonia voted for the Spanish constitution with around 95% of Catalans voting in favor.

    That constitution does not allow the region to hold this vote (not, for that matter, does Catalan law).

    If they want to truly try and break away, they should go through constitutional means. That’s what they agreed to in endorsing the constitution in the first place.

    • Paolo Piccio

      Agreed and very well explained here

    • Daniel Marin Ch

      Voting can not be prohibited under a democracy

    • Anna Raymi

      Thank you, thats completly right

  121. ANGEL

    Como va a permitir la UE y la ONU un estado catalán que no respeta su propia constitución catalana? Sí, hace falta intervención internacional en Cataluña, pero para permitir que se respeten las reglas democráticas en el parlamento de Cataluña, para evitar que ningun partido apruebe sin mayorías suficientes y sin debate leyes que afectan al la totalidad del pueblo catalán allí representado, y de forma autoritaria e unilateral impongan su criterio

  122. James Brown Rae

    It’s frightening. Yesterday in Lugo, a handful of the local falange were demonstrating in the Plaza Mayor, meanwhile thosands were on the streets of Santiago SUPPORTING Catalunya. Today, the fascist rag (La Voz de Galicia) had the headline ‘Día de Infamia´which, unless my memory is playing tricks was used by the LA Times on 8/12/41 following the attack on Pearl Harbor. On the other hand, ‘El Progreso’ our local paper had 8 pages of the most balanced journalism i’ve seen yet. Visca Catalunya!

    • Cristian Ruiz Altaba

      Did Estonia or Slovenia were the end of the EU?? Or did they make it stronger?

    • Yolanda Garcia

      Some politicians in Catalonia manipulate the people the last decades.

  123. Tarquin Farquhar

    The barbaric Spanish police are back to their old violent anti-democractic tactics!

    WHERE ARE YOU GUY VERHOFSTADT?

  124. Thanassis Sarantos

    This NeoNazistic regime that you dare to call shamefully Europe soon will fall as every dictatorship in the past, Democracy will prevail either you want it or not and soon every country will go away and Germany will be left alone as always in its small history

  125. Ivan Burrows

    What you see today in Catalonia today is what you can expect if you are conned into an unwanted United states of Europe, you have been warned.

  126. catherine benning

    Should the EU recognise Catalonia’s independence referendum?

    If Catalonia is denied its right to democracy it will end with a resistance movement. And that will be a catastrophe, not simply for the Spanish but for the entire EU. If you believe the Ukraine is in turmoil then quadruple that for Spain. And once again, who will you blame for that? Certainly not Russia, or, will you try to peg that one on them as well?

  127. Nasir Mohd

    I thought Spain was a highly civilized and democratic society. After seeing today’s police violence, certainly they are not but Catalonians are.

    • Yolanda Garcia

      Why.?Because they create a circus today.They vote in an illegal act.They attack the police like terrorists.

    • Miquel Catalan Miro

      Sorry you see it from Salamanca. What about our “papers”…..

    • Cocker Boreal de Oro

      Catalonia not in european comunity,there is rules,not only in Spain too in european comunity

  128. Maria

    No, I suggest that the people read first art 2 of LA CONSTITUTION to see that the referendum is illegal. Besides that’s not just the only thing that the nationalists have done unlawfully. The session in the Catalan parliament was a mock. Half the quorum left the room. It’s a pity they have misled the people and of course they knew what was going to happen but preferred to make the people martyrs for the media coverage.

  129. Curro Brg

    First Catalonia… then Corsica, Bavaria, Flanders, Lombardia…. and suddenly all became state cities again like back in the ancient Greece… and start all over again!

    • Alberto Abad

      Tienes ocho apellidos catalanes Miguel o lo de Miquel es para esconder tus orígenes Andaluces, como Pokémon, Charnego Rufián y todos los demás “intelectuales” que idolatráis y seguís como borregos al matadero?

  130. Emilie

    C’est très triste cette situation en Catalogne , mais on ne peu pas faire un referéndum s’ il
    n’est pas legál !! NO!!!
    Le gouvernement Catalán a decidez le faire sans avoir assez de votes du parlement Catalán. Avec seul 72 votes et Non 90 votes qui son les votes statutaires pour pouvoir mettre une loie en marche, Mr Puigdemon ha decider jetter la loie de la constitution Espagnole a la poubelle et faire un referéndum sans assez de votes et sans compter avec d’autre partis politiques.
    Que doit il faire un president d’un pais dans ces cas là?????

  131. Juan Pedro

    Brutal la actuación de las fuerzas fascistas en democracia como dicen ellos.
    Han pegado palos sin motivo los he visto con mis ojos.
    Espero que la Comunidad Europea actúe en consecuencia.

    • Joan Rullo Gallofre

      Hola Juan, no esperes nada de U.E serà lo mismo question interna.

    • Gabriel Orentas

      La actuación de la policía es por demás deplorable. Sin embargo, La UE no puede actuar en materias internas de ningún país miembro. Ahora bien, las víctimas de violencia policial se pueden organizar y presentar una demanta ante la corte Europea correspondiente en contra del gobierno Español.

  132. Xavier Méndez

    1 dead and more than 800 injured because of the attacks of spanish terrorist police

    EUROPE, HELP US!

    • Yolanda Garcia

      You are the terrorists. You attack the police.You use children and old people in an illegal and shameful act.You manipulate and attack many people from Catalonia that dont think like you.I never understood why we had a civil war in Spain in 1936. Today I saw how a group of crazy,mad politicians can send the people to attack the police,to create hate to others in the rest of Spain,even to their neighbours in Catalonia.( they call fascists even to their brothers if they are no pro- independence).It is like a movement of anarchy.They dont respect the law,our democracy

    • Xavier Méndez

      Spanish terrorist must go to international courts!

    • Ramon Manyà Torres

      Yolanda Garcia we attacked the police? Stop lying, the images are there for everyone to see. Shame on you!

    • Edu Barceló

      Yolanda Garcia Típico argumento de alguien que habla desde el sofá de su casa. Venga un beso, guapi.

    • Alberto Yuste Vela

      Queremos independencia porque nos creemos tan superiores que solos podemos:

      Europe help us!!

      jajaajajjaa joder.. la estupidez humana es infinita

    • Jordi Ribó Rovira

      Que hemos atacado a la policia? Si han cargado con gente quieta levantando las manos, a porrazos e incluso con disparos de balas de goma. No teneis perdon, vosotros apoyais que se hayan herido a nuestros amigos, sois la creacion del estado de mentiras, solo mirais los wue os dicen desde las noticias y vais como ovejas a creeroslo y a defenderlo. La ignorancia es lo wue os deslegitima

  133. Fuco López

    YES! There shouldn’t be any doubt about it. The Catalonian people only wants the right to be itself in the international field. They just want the same state tools all your states enjoy.
    The Spanish people and namely their leaders have done something terrible, violent and unfair against a peaceful people. Now the Spanish authorities and their subventioned media are distorting reallity.
    Europe, Spain is still that fascist country which won a war. Help us make Europe a better place by recognizing the right of the peoples to decide about their futures. Galiza, Euskadi and Catalunya claim your help!

    • Yolanda Garcia

      Inependents Catalonian you act like terrorists today.You attack the police. You were in an illegal act. And you are from Spain.Study your own history.

    • Fuco López

      Ridiculous point of yours. I recommend you check the videos and the pictures. The people in the streets were acting peacefully and civically, calling that people terrorists is a bad joke. You are a fanatic, they have eatten your mind and you can’t even see what’s in front of you. Check the pictures and check the words of the witnesses. You are the kind of people we are trying to run from. Illegal was the way the police behaved. Just for you to know, and just for the record, history is done by people in a process. Today we are making tomorrow’s history. You get it?

  134. Mercè

    The Constitution is not the Bible

  135. Ferran Gali

    Shame of Europe… with no ethical values… disgraceful! The horrible facts of today, are pure fascism, demonstrating that Catalonia is an occupied Nation, we’ve resisted 300 years, and enough is enough. And at present I do prefer to be out than in the EU. Proud of my country still alive and full of energy and human solidarity.

  136. Marc Vidal Ravell

    Europe must sent a clear message to the Spanish Goverment requesting them to avoid using Military Forces against civil people as is forbidden on the 47th Article of the Human Rights Law… let’s recognize Catalonia as a New European Republic… and helped Catalans negociating with Spain… 90% of YES… more than 2.000.000 people said YES… 400 Colleges closed or vannished by Guardia Civil (around 777.000 people without having Voting right)… we need Europe’s Help!!!

    • Ulic Otero

      Military forces? Guardia Civil is a kind of police,no military, they´re just military in war time.

    • Ulic Otero

      Ah, and 2M from 7 millions of Catalans.

    • Marc Vidal Ravell

      Ulic, just 5 million with the right to vote, also was 400 voting colleges that were censured, which means another 770.000 votes censored, in my college we’d to close during almost 3 hours waiting for the Repression Forces of the State… only 172.000 people voted no. So if you’re meaning that 172.000 have the right of impossing their vote over 2.000.000 ok, but I think that this should be not real Democrazy… yesterday was war time in Catalonia… more than 800 dameged, some of them reslly seriously… our weappons… only a paper, an envelope and a plastic box!!!! Yesterday GC was worst than the Spanish Militarys!!!! Have a look to the images…

    • Julio Cubilla

      Yes, ignore the constitution you do not like what it says, but call on it when something bad happens.

  137. Arnau Ratia Sauqué

    After seeing today’s unprovoked police brutality against unarmed people who only offered peaceful resistance (which were chants and unwillingness to move from their path), what do you say, I don’t want to belong to a country whose government and Security Forces treat my people like this.

  138. Jovan Ivosevic

    Dear catalans, if you’re looking to leave Spain because you don’t want your taxes to go to developing Andalusia, as long as you stay in the European Union, your taxes are still going somewhere else. Except it’ll be to Bulgaria. Hopefully that’s not the only reason you want to take such a radical step and why you’re bringing the entire Iberian Peninsula on the brink of Civil War.

  139. Mathieu Coquelet Ruiz

    This was no referendum. Catalunya is not on the list of Non-Self-Governing territories of the UN (hence no recognised right to self determination). The referendum was ruled unconstitutional by the highest Court of Spain. The voters were pre-selected. And all anti-independence parties/voters boycotted it.

  140. Maria

    Of course no. It was illegal, not only cause the constitution, it’s not clear anything and they want people choose. It was an illegal thing, in fact, many people voted 4 times or more.

  141. Xavier Serra

    Recognize it or not, they are already gone. The rest of opinions trying to Hitlerize Puigdemont are pathetic propaganda.

  142. Alberto Abad

    No
    Spain has democracy and under the law they should go to “Las Cortes” with their proposal to discuss and authorize or not.
    No pueden hacer lo que les salga de los huevos y enfrentar a todos los catalanes entre ellos y con el resto de España
    Cataluña it’s Spain!!!!!

  143. Z

    The law isn’t democracy. The law is supposed to uphold democracy. Which means the law is there to protect the people , .. all people. It did not in this event. It suppressed people. No matter who is right or wrong.

  144. Cristina

    Laws must be done to Protect people, not to use against the popultion! In Spain is more important a constitution than their people. So yes. Catalan people MUST SAY if they want this or not.

  145. Alex Tselentis

    YES why not it embodies DEMOCRACY than non existent thing the EU preaches about in Europe, the EU is a root cause of the problem.

  146. Marc

    Definitely. Spanish government say it’s illegal because the constitution says so, but this constitution was made 40 years ago and still with the influence of the fascist dictatorship of Franco.
    The referendum should be valid, and if someone says is illegal the k about women’s rights to vote, where they legal years ago?

  147. Alex

    Human rights are universal rights regardless any system, country, constitution !
    Plus, the EU recognized the secession of Kosovo from Serbia even without a referendum ! why s not Catalonia?

  148. Luis Terra

    Yes its the will of its people. But leaving Spain it must also mean leaving the EU. Catalans dont want to pay taxes to the poorest regions in Spain so it wont need EU’s funds.

  149. Georg Blaha

    No. I see a conflict with the Union’s principles if it would recognise the results. Mind you that the result of an illegal referendum, that is what it was, is not to be mixed with the outrageous reaction of the government and its apalling management of an internal conflict. Does the EU – which part of it? – have a right to negotiate with the province of a member state without this state’s consent? I cannot imagine that. However, I am missing the harsh reaction of EP and EC against the actions taken by the Spanish government. I do not see a European political conflict if a region seeks independence while it wants to stay in the Union.

  150. Gabriel Orentas

    It can’t be legally recognized due to a myriad of flaws in the voting a total lack of international and independent oversight. There have been an enormous mishandling of the situation from both, Spain’s central government and regional Catalonia government. Most Catalonians want to stay in Spain, yet they still wanted a referendum so there won’t be any doubts about it. Yet the sheer stupidity of the central government (“stupidity” is the only term to describe it) has led to a situation in which nothing is clear at all and now many would jump into the “independence” bandwagon just a form of protest.

  151. Gabriel Orentas

    It can’t be legally recognized due to a myriad of flaws in the voting and a total lack of international and independent oversight. There have been an enormous mishandling of the situation from both, Spain’s central government and regional Catalonia government. Most Catalonians want to stay in Spain, yet they still wanted a referendum so there won’t be any doubts about it. Yet the sheer stupidity of the central government (“stupidity” is the only term to describe it) has led to a situation in which nothing is clear at all and now many would jump into the “independence” bandwagon just as a form of protest.

  152. LLuis

    Spain has a lot of problems and EU has a lot of problems and Catalonia has a lot of problems but I’m sure Independence is not a solution for Catalonia, What will be the future for a Catalonia people? In UE, out of UE

  153. Sven

    Of course not! By doing so it will open the gates of other fractions around the many countries in Europe who want independence for themselves. Also more practical question arises… Who is gonna pay their pensions? Because I don’t think Spain is willing to pay for those years of they decide to abandon ship… Also like previous mentioned… Catalonia was never a conquest… It became part of Spain because of a marriage.

  154. Jordi

    I think EU should help catalonia in this situation, I am living in Barcelona and I have seen how spanish police has attack indiscriminalety to innocent people and some of my friends with hands up…

    The spanish press is beeing financied by the government and is being manipulated to show the catalans as the enemy to the spanish people, we are europeans please friends help us…

    we need you

  155. Rui Correia

    No… form an army and carry on beating up your own people, only for “voting and expressing opinion”… what do you think??? Common sense needed, to overcome any constitutional issues.

  156. Pol

    Yeeesss. Catalonia already was an Independent State the October, 6th of 1934. Two years later, the fascism (dictator Franco), assisted by Nazi and Italian aviation destroyed the Spanish’s Federal Republic, killing 500.000 people. Today, Spain is the 2nd world’d country with more desappeared and their constitutional Law was writed under the pressure of the military forces, in 1978, imposing a monarky regimen and a State of pseudo-autonomous regions. A constitutional Law that permit the coxistence of victims with their torturators, that doesn’t condem the current neo-fascism abuses, that permits suppress any human right when the illegitim monarky wants, as the world has see the last october 1st. A shame of country, in a shame of EU that only stays in silence.

  157. Oxman

    Spain claims the referendum was illegal. Nothing new there. South Africa had a constitution allowing apartheid and thought it was right to uphold this ‘legal’ system with brutal force if necessary. So you think the apartheid government was right to keep Mandela and other freedom fighters in prison for breaking the law?The Chinese constitution only accepts one party, the communist party. So when the students protested against this in 1989 it was illegal. Therefore the government thought that they were right when the killed some 3.000 protesters on the Tiananmen. The government of Yugoslavia thought it upheld the laws of Yugoslavia when they cracked down on all separatist movements in Yugoslavia and started the war in Yugoslavia in the 1990ies. There were no place for legal referendums in these countries. It has been the same everywhere. Colonial powers were referring to the laws of the mother country when they were fighting all ‘illegal’ freedom movements. So this smokescreen talk about ‘illegal’ is just what the powerful and mighty always throws at the weaker part. Every people has the right to freedom/independency. So if the Catalans want freedom they have the right to gain it. The Spanish government was afraid of the outcome of the referendum so they did what those with power always do: they use force. But it should never be legal to beat up peaceful voters. Shame on you Spain!!! Seems like Franco never left the building.

  158. Oxman

    And Frans Timmermans thinks it’s OK for the police to beat up peaceful voters!!! This is not the EU I have supported. I am stunned. People in power falls in love with the power and give up all decency just to be able to stay in power. This admirer of police brutality should not be allowed to continue in the Comission.

  159. skyrga

    A result of a referendum cannot be legal in such a matter if 90% of 46% of the total population decides for the rest. Open your eyes outside our borders, please, violence was wrong and current Spanish president should leave, but 41% of population do not have the right to force a full region to get out of Spain. The national Catalan govern is as much to blame here as the Spanish one, both should be put out the scene for the rest of us to start dialoguing again…..

    • skyrga

      For you to understand the numbers, those are the ones who tried to vote, 46% of the Catalans, which means that only 41% really wants to break with Spain, and there rest do not necessarily want the contrary, there are many who simply do not give a **** **** and want this story to be over. So again, the National Catalans should be put out of the picture, as well as the current Spanish government….

  160. Alain Dankelman

    ‪Tout le monde n’est pas hostile à une UE fédérale. Il n’est pas nécessaire de voir cela comme une lutte contre les États nations hérités souvent des anciens régimes. Pour l’instant, on a rien d’autre. Nous sommes coincés entre la mondialisation et un retour ambigu aux racines…. Priver la Catalogne de l’Euro menacerait de déstabiliser tant l’UE que l’Espagne. La BCE n’a pas à favoriser ce genre de jeu. Le secteur économique non plus n’a pas à se dresser contre les suffrages démocratiques. D’un autre côté, il serait imprudent de laisser croire possible la perception fiscale au niveau des Territoires sans supervision ou rôle de l’UE.‬ L’Europe et les nouvelles générations, autant que les experts doivent se mobiliser au service de la prospective. Nous sommes en retard sur les évolutions en cours.

  161. Alain Dankelman

    Please imagine a New way to make politic, out of binary simplist method. Do you eared about Fuzzy Logic ? Are we so unable to créateur new secure concepts ? Both for Spain and for Catalunia, you give positions on the poeple lifes with “légèreté”. Why invocating the potential violence of inappropriate solutions ?

  162. Ivan Burrows

    Gaining independence from Madrid to then give it away again to Brussels would be the hight of stupidity.

  163. Christina Kler

    What a question ! You HAVE to listen ! haw can you ignore the voice of millions of people that pay Europe high taxes !! what Kind of Europe do we want ? Populations that shut up and get orders from Brussels !!!

  164. Enric Mestres Girbal

    The EU still do not understand that the Catalan problem is a show made up with lies, demagogy and etnic hate. Wake up because if you help Catalonia to brakeaway soon many european countries would have the same.

  165. peter Paul

    Of course not. What silly question !!! If european union did recognise a separatist referendum it could be chaos for europe. Other regions would want to secede such as basque country , or north Italy. and europe would get plunged into chaos. Such nice info graph for such silly question. Neither spain would allow catalunya to be independent. Catalunya is part of spain for hundreds of years. Before Franco the republic went to war because of it. Forget it.

  166. Patricia Smith

    needs to be a full repeat referendum with everyone voting rather than no’s staying away with defined requirements for the result to have validity

  167. Giovanni Luciani

    No…there are lot of “strange” situation…yesterday i heard about one place where only 8000 could vote…but actually..the votes were 10.000….but The Spain governement..made a very stupid reaction using the army and the police

    • Jane Tse

      A state is sovereign because of it is the sole monopoly on the legal use of coercive force. When the referendum is threatening territorial integrity and national unity, hence the survival of Spain, the Central Government would be irresponsible if it fails to use the minimum coercive force to stop it. In this aspect, the Central Government of Spain has done it.

  168. Julio Cubilla

    No! Its idiotic.
    Were people from Catalan oppressed and prosecuted in Spain ?

    No, they were not. They had jobs, went to school, received the same, if not more, benefits from the government and had a great degree of Autonomy.

    Do all Catalans support it?

    No, only about half Catalans support Independence, and those who do, their reasoning to support it is flawed and ignorant (in the sense of effects). Furthermore, its hypocritical for Catalonia to claim they support Democracy and People rights ( free speech) when they suppress those who are anti -independence just for voicing their opinion.

    You cannot claim to support democracy when a constitution is violated so clearly without reason.

    Why do they want to go independent?
    They have their own culture, and are richer on their own.
    New flash… In the U.S, Mexico, and several countries, different areas have different cultures, dialects, and are richer than other, but none of them are claiming independence.

    Truth is Catalonia has never been a nation and has been part of Spain for a long time. Sure Catalonia was suppressed during Franco’s regime, and if they claimed independence then, it would have been right. But, Spain made amends, it gave them autonomy, money to build business, and moved several of industries to Catalonia who would have struggle without it. From then on it became quite prosperous area without much prosecution. And now they want to claim independence? The only thing that accomplishes is create hate and uncertainty for no reason other than ‘we are better than you’.
    Yes, I understand Spain central government is quite incompetent in certain areas such as finances, change it from within don’t just complain.

    Also, Remember just because the EU has accepted state which have separated, it doesn’t mean it will do it again. Especially with all the main countries (Spain, France, Germany, Italy) facing similar movements from within.

  169. Daniel Martinez

    Making a unilateral and ilegal referendum is as wrong as trying to stifle it by the use of the force to remain united.

    So in my opinion, as catalan, I would prefer that europe convince both governments (spain and catalan) to dialogue and start a process similar as the scotish referendum.

    That would allow both parts to explain to population the advantages and disadvantages about remain united or get separate to assume the consequences of their votes on a legal and recognized referendum.

  170. Jane Tse

    What power EU has to recognize the referendum? It is an intervention of domestic affairs of Spain!

  171. Jane Tse

    The title of this debate is quite problematic. If the EU is established for collective security, I do not see why EU should recognize a separation movement! Same as the UN, which based on the same principle of collective security for postwar reconstruction of international organization. Even though the UN encourage decolonization and self-determination, it does not allow self-determination that threatening territorial integrity and national unity of member states.

    • Jane Tse

      Unrestricted self-determination and separation movement would threatening regional and even world peace. We might probably forgotten the two devastating world wars and that the third world war would be a nuclear war, which would definitely threaten the extinction of human species. Japan is the first country that has a Peace Constitution, it can be the hope of human species. But now Shinzo Abe is trying to destroy the world first Peace Constitution.

  172. Jane Tse

    If Carles Puigdemont failed to see objection from all over the country, failed to see how many tools the Central Government can use to stop the region becoming independent disregarding the referendum, failed to see the multi-ethnicity of all EU states and EU would not encourage any separation movement, failed to see self-determination needs justification in international law, without support of a regional power or even the US, …..how can he govern a sovereign territory Catalonia?

    • Valentí Rua

      Catalonia has been Independent beföre Spain existed.and had one of the oldest parliments in the world CONSELL DE CENT

  173. robert dunford

    i have contacted united nations who uphold human rights ,democracy and freedom .which spain is not doing. they have sent messages to spain .warning them that european union stands by human rights .democracy and freedom.and this is the reason they are in europe. how can they keep in the united nations if they do not recognise human rights democracy or freedom .waiting more advise from united nations

  174. Anne Smith

    Yes of course. The argument that independence is against the law makes no sense. According to Human Rights Declaration self determination is a universal right.

  175. robert dunford

    if spain has human rights .freedom for their people they do not show it.united nation have asked the spanish government to accept without delay the request by relevant united nation expert to visit to see if spain is using human rights with catalonia .like they agreed with european union and united nations the high commission for human rights wants to send in united nations experts

  176. kevin

    The referendum was nothing more than an indication of the feeling for independence which appears quite high . As it was not a legal vote those wanting to stay with Spain would not have voted though they did come out in numbers the following week . Confusion reigns as to what the Catalans want and the only way to resolve the matter is to have a government sanctioned ,legal referendum .
    The EU should keep out

  177. Enric Mestres Girbal

    The spanish government is open to dialogue BUT can’t accept a secession. Why Germany did not accept a referendum in Bayern?.

  178. Enric Mestres Girbal

    May I ask why the foto you show of the independent flags is the left wing/comunist (the red star) and not the most popular center right with the white star? And do you know the oficial catalan flag don’t have any stars or ather adiments

  179. Eduardo

    oh hell no, that s**t aint prepared

  180. BASQUA CATALUNIA CAPITAL VITTORIA ACT OF UNION

    yes catalunya as euskadi and gallaicia castilla act of union should be consider with constitution

  181. Bruno

    Stop talking about the Spanish constitution because the Catalonian crisis is not a legal issue, it’s a political issue! It doesn’t matter what the Constitution of Spain says about independence because the Constitution can be changed by any time if there is political will to do it.
    The only option that Spain and the EU are offering to the Catalan authorities is submission. This is not democracy. In a real democracy both parts should discuss their differences and they should try to reach a compromise between them. And this is not happening in Catalonia. So, between submission and rebellion, the second option is preferable beause it preserves dignity.

  182. bladavenger

    I would accept the will of the people.

    90% of a 43% turnout is more like 38% of the Catalonian region. How can 38% be an accurate reflection on the wishes of the people? MAybe more people would have voted – who knows – but citing the result of a referendum, in which less than half of the people voted, as an “overwhelming” victory is both absurd and sensationalist and not even democratic.

  183. J. P. Lawrens

    They seem to don’t understand the concept of European union. It is all cute how the boast about there GDP but I don’t see them competing with either; Russia, USA, China or Japan. I think it is important to realize that everybody that isn’t us(European Union) wants to see us dead. We only exist because we are united the moment we divide, Russia, China, Turkey will try to take us down. Our existents has no benefit for them, why would dictators want a free world? If anything the European union should get even more on union than 100 of small parts belonging to it. There will be a time without countries when we need to start fixing our problems as one World, we are all humans no matter what language you talk where you live. Spain and Catalonia you guess are more alike than you think.

  184. Frank Fitch

    How can the West criticise Communist China for supressing democracy when every European country has supported Spain’s actions in refusing to allow a referendum to Catalonia? It is disgraceful. The UK allowed Scotland to hold a referendum on independence, but is now supporting Spain’s refusal to let Catalonia have self-determination.

  185. astian

    whatever happens in Spain is not your concern. period , full stop

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