EU-defence-cooperationThe Brexit negotiations aren’t off to the best of starts. It’s been one week since Article 50 was triggered on 29 March 2017, and much of the debate has been focused on whether Britain could ever go to war with Spain over Gibraltar.

Even Theresa May’s letter formally launching the Brexit process has been controversial, with some accusing her of “blackmailing” EU states over continued security and defence cooperation. Downing Street has denied that the reference to security cooperation in May’s letter was an implicit threat. However, it’s undeniable that Brexit is going to have an impact in this sphere.

A significant chunk of EU defence expenditure currently comes from the UK, and Britain has historically obstructed any moves towards closer EU defence cooperation. We had a comment from Jörg, who thinks that Brexit (together with an apparent cooling in the US’ attitude towards NATO) will encourage EU states to step up and do more in terms of defence cooperation. Is he right?

To get a reaction, we spoke to Giles Merritt, founder and Chairman of Friends of Europe. What would he say to Jörg?

For another perspective, we put the same question to Timothy Less, Director of Nova Europa, a political consultancy firm specialising in security risk analysis in Eastern Europe. How would he respond?

lessThere is certainly a scenario in which the other 27 proceed without Britain – a state which has hitherto blocked reform in the area of defence integration… But personally I don’t see it happening, even though it’s a possibility. One reason for this is that there are a number of neutral states within the EU, such as Ireland, Austria, Sweden and Finland, which are not interested in creating a kind of EU Army, common EU defence policy, and so on.

Then you come up against the practical question of money, and – even if there is a political commitment to integration in the area of defence – whether Member States are willing to make the necessary financial contributions to turn this into a reality. Finally, you have the issue of NATO, and I think some Member States will be reluctant to engage any kind of initiative which cuts across NATO or undermines its effectiveness in the region.

Will Brexit encourage EU states to cooperate more on defence? Given that Britain contributes a fair amount of defence expenditure in the EU, could its loss spur others to step up? And should Britain use security cooperation as a bargaining chip in the Brexit negotiations? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – 7th Army Training Command


278 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

    • Paul X

      Defence is like an insurance policy, nobody thinks they will need it but only an idiot goes without one

    • Thanos Koum

      EU Countries that dare to revolt against the 4th Reich

    • harry Southgate

      .. Defence against the greatest deployment troops and tanks in Poland since the Cold War, by a non-European state wishing to combat “Russian Aggression” .. and keep the consequences of any ‘noble defensive action’ out of its own back yard .. ..

  1. Ivan Burrows

    .

    An EU army would lead to the end of NATO which in turn would increase the probability of war with Russia.

    ‘Europeans’ are repeating the mistakes of history, only the colour of their flag as changed, from red to blue.

    • Pedro Castro

      You have no say in this (or any other EU business) since last wednesday

    • Ivan Burrows

      .

      For as long as I am forced to pay for the idiotic institution I have.

    • Thanos Koum

      I have a say and EU can go f* itself. So much for bringing people together you filthy German bootlickers.

    • Ivan Burrows

      Pedro Castro

      The motto of the EU:

      “A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.”

      A European with a flag and a plan to unite Europe – 1939

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Pedro Castro, please, have some decorum. And at least try to hide the fact that you europhiles are not quite fond of freedom of speech and democracy.

    • Pedro Castro

      Ivan Burrows, you’re not invited to this party, you’re not paying or participating on it nor are you wellcome, specialy when you threaten UE menbers with war. Lets just hope that when this army goes forward it isn’t to put you in your place little england!

    • David Coughlan

      There are EU countries which are not in NATO. Republic of Ireland and Sweden are 2 I can think of.

    • Stephen Hall

      Pedro Castro, uk are net contributors, club Mediterranean are all takers, whose going to pay your bills now?

    • Pedro Castro

      Stephen Hall, the only thing that you should be concerned about is that it’s not you!

      The rest is none of your business.

    • Karolina

      My understanding is that the debate is open to all to express their views and is free of charge, provided that people have an internet connection.

    • Pedro Castro

      Ivan Burrows, when has Spain threatened war?

      And it’s not troll, it’s trollslayer. You should know that, it’s british.

    • Alex Browne

      Pedro even brits who voted out want full cooperation with Europe just not integration. The EU is creating tension by involving a territorial issue that is not an issue. it is British territory and will continue to be. That was very unwise of the EU. Not like we are demanding Calais back is it.

      Hardball is one thing, i would expected angsty negotiations, but that’s not hardball it is just laying the seeds for Falklands no.2. F@cking stupid!

    • Ivan Burrows

      Pedro Castro (troll)

      In the civilised world sending your armed ships into the waters of another country is seen as an act of aggression and could be seen as an act of war.

      But please keep up with the insults troll, that are at least amusing.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      Ivan Burrows < < An EU army would lead to the end of NATO which in turn would increase the probability of war with Russia. >> : As Einstein indicated, “insanity consists upon the fact of doing the same thing again & again and expecting different results “……..eurotards never divorced from insanity through centuries. Napoleonic and Hitlerian debacles did not give ’em the lesson.

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Pedro Castro, Spain is a military threat since the Catholic Kings started to follow its creation spain is such a danger that it has territorial disputes will ALL its neighbours and with Morocco. It all of them Spain has no right.

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Stephen Hall , it is “Club Med”, from “Medical Care”, not “mediterranean”, as not all of them are mediterranean, starting with Ireland and mine and Pedro’s nation, Portugal. German was once part of “Club Med” as well, as it was also considered “The Sick Man of Europe”. I guess you got confused with the french hotel chain “Club Med” (Club Méditerranée ). Secondly, the UK is a net contributer, but neither Portugal nor any of the others, with the exception of Greece, is a “taker” for a simple reason. The EU does not “give” anything, it loans, with interests and several demands attached to it. Finally, in 30 years of portuguese membership in the EEC/EU, it received loans in a grand amout of 89 bi euros (an amout that will be reached only in 2020 when the last QREN is over and it turn a net contributer). I regret to tell you this, but that is less than a single ANUAL budget of Portugal. So, like I told Pedro to show some decorum, I will suggest you to do the same, as you clearly have no knowledge to be using such words as you did. Best regards from a pro-UK friend!

    • Miguel Hilário

      Ivan Burrows You think the UK has some sort of power against anyone? You just isolated yourselves, forced to trade under WTO tariffs which is just dumb.

      You singlehandedly turned the UK weaker. You’re not allies with France or Germany. You’re not allies with Russia. And the USA are starting to leave you. Who exactly are you going to fight?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @José Bessa Da Silva
      ‘Club Med’ does not include Ireland dear boy – it is a derogatory term based on the countries that ‘Club Med’ (the business) operated in at one time.

      Portugal was/is the only ‘Club Med’ member without a Mediterranean presence although it does feature as a country with a ‘Mediterranean Cuisine’ in Wikipedia.

      The ‘Club Med’ countries have many members that are ‘BEGGAR NATIONS’ ie they receive more money from the EU than they contribute – for them the EU is a gravy train that provides them with electricity, roads, railways, telecoms – something many were inept at doing for themselves.

      Many of these ‘Club Med’ nations are so morally and culturally corrupt that they refuse to acknowledge their ‘BEGGAR’ status – but ‘BEGGARS’ they be and ‘BEGGARS’ they are.

      Similarly, many of these ‘Club Med’ nations are too fragile to be able to exist independently as they are endemically, pandemically, epidemically and systemically corrupt – for them the EU is a step-up in democracy and accountability; for the UK the EU is a step-down in democracy and accountability AND the UK has to pay the EU’s ‘BEGGAR’ nations for the privilege/insult!

      The EU is morphing into a ‘Latin bloc’ and we all know what that means in the long run once Germany’s demographic power wanes!!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Pedro Castro
      Oh err, what a sordid surname you have – commiserations!

      Let us hope that Spain that bastion bast@#d of freedom and democracy – renowned for its corruption, a corruption that it has exported to its old traumatised colonies, unleashing pain, horror, backwardness, misogyny and death for centuries ‘grows up’ and ‘civilizes itself’ up to the levels of a Northern EU or 5-eyes Anglosphere nation.

      Whilst the UK is paying to reduce poverty and corruption in Spain as it has done for decades, UK voices must and will be heard – like it or lump it!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Miguel Hilário
      Hillarious!

      FTR, Portugal is not an ally of Germany – it is a mere ‘pet’ of Germany, just like France!

    • Karolina

      Tarquin thriving on his hate campaign, as usual. A proper hate rant.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Karolina
      One persons hate is another person’s objective and prosaic articulation of reality.

      Please don’t fear the facts Karolina – I know its difficult for the likes of you.

  2. Alex Tselentis

    Ummmm NO .. EU has fallen apart because of the EU leaderships short sighted arrogance towards its fellow “member states” Europe does not want a war with Russia, a war he EU puppets are trying to incite in Ukraine, the UK was the biggest cash donor to Europes defenses, Europe is broke where will the billions come from ?? More printing.

    • Alex Tselentis

      Dalius Gintautas LOL open your eyes idiot, Brexit, next France, war in Ukraine, sanctions, terror attacks, refugee crisis, financial crisis does that all sound like progress to you ?? It does if your a half baked idiot, sorry dnt smoke ;) Go get informed moron.

    • Paul Dòcherty

      The Eu has not fallen apart better off with out England.

    • Edita Buržinskaitė

      Frexit is not gonna happen because Marine Le Pen will not win in the second round. Quit dreaming.

    • Alex Tselentis

      Paul Dòcherty right now it hasnt .. In five years ? If a war with Russia start as it looks like it may, wel talk afterwards ;)

    • Alex Tselentis

      Edita Buržinskaitė is that what your crystal ball told you ?? Ppl said the same about Trump, the same about Brexit, things didnt turn out how they “thought” dnt count your chickens to early ;)

    • Pedro Castro

      Alex Tselentis, brexit and trump were all within the 3% margin of error. Le pen is some 25% below Macron (could be anyone else realy). French people don’t want her, it’s just that simple.

      And there won’t be war with russia, they have cut down 25% on their military spending, they’re flat broke.

    • Alex Tselentis

      Pedro Castro Funny that, I just read today in a poll Macron is way behind and has no connection with the people of France, I watched French debates, one poll says this, another says that, and no Hillary Clinton was being claimed way ahead of Trump in the run up by all the major MSN networks, shed basically won it, then oops they had it all wrong .. ALLOT of ppl were saying what you say about Trump, and they got it horribly wrong, Time will tell.

    • Mário Lobo

      Alex Tselentis, Trump and Brexit happened in a voting with two options only. A winner takes it all at first round.
      About France:
      1. Macron will most likely have more votes (30%) than Le Pen (25%) at first round. But even if not,
      2. Who will give the victory to Le Pen? Oligarques thay support Fillon (20%)? Third-Way pseudo-socialists thay support Hamon (20%)? Or the far left thay supports Mélenchon (10%)?
      Let’s get real.
      (The percentages are what I consider the maximums possible)

      This does not mean the populist right is not on the rise. We saw in the Netherlands that the only way to “stop” Wilders was to do some of his policy. The votes were still casted in the same populist ideas.
      In France, Le Pen will be a danger while every election is a second round winner takes it all. The day Le Pen will actually make it we will not see it coming.
      Poland has a similar system to France. Do tell me how many Socialists are in the national assembly there.

    • Edita Buržinskaitė

      Alex Tselentis No Alex, it’s what logic told me. Unlike you I don’t have a crystal ball. She will not win this time around. Of course, that doesn’t mean she might not win at the next election. Or the next.

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      Dalius Gintautas lithuanian ss were smoking the expensive smoke. Alex Tselentis is on the right traxk of history

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      Dalius Gintautas lithuanian ss were smoking the expensive smoke. Alex Tselentis is on the right track of history

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      Edita Buržinskaitė your political imaginery, excuses you for the fact that you’re out of reality.

  3. Enric Mestres Girbal

    First thing the EU should understand is that the actual defense don’t need big armies and better weapons but more friendship with Russia and more inteligence agencies. Also that the weakests point is Turkey.

    • Dalius Gintautas

      Friendship with evil? Are you really so stupid or just pretending?

    • Moreira France

      Dalius Gintautas Cold War end in 1989.

    • Enric Mestres Girbal

      Russia is not URSS and, up to now, the EU evil/ennemy is Islamism (not muslims). Any effort against Moscu weaken the europen south-east flank.

    • Pedro Castro

      Enric Mestres Girbal, they’re actively undermining EU with espionage and trying like hell to minimize it.

      You might want to tell them we’re not their enemy then becouse when you’re attacked daily it’s hard to accept the guy punching your face in as friendly…

    • Enric Mestres Girbal

      Espionage is all around the world, not only from Russia…and better be in good terms with your neighbour even if watches you from the window.

  4. Panagiotopoulos George

    will we heading to a world war, cause psychos are ruling, and the sheeple dont understand…YESSSSSSSSSS…NEXT STEP:GIVE GERMANY AN ARMY….LOL….YOU PSYCHOSSSS!

    • Angelos Marinos

      Germanys army is not the issue.The army of united nations of Europe though,thats what should scare us.

    • Panagiotopoulos George

      Angelos Marinos and who would be in charge…the beauraucrats?they will take people;s money to give it to the military complex, and i ll have in charge sorros, yougern, and the rest of the psychos…no one should be ok with that…obama created isis, and the modern terrorism, and germany helped financing…these attacks that europe is having right now, are well orchestrated by the psychos…you want peace…stop funding terrorism…!end of story!

    • Alex Tselentis

      Remember Germany is controlled by the US .. Youre correct this war mongering beating of the war drum is NATO is doing, and threats of regime change, the war in Ukraine, whicg Germany under the US supports, can fast spread across Europe if DIPLOMACY doesnt come befire bullets and bombs, as is the current situation.

    • Panagiotopoulos George

      diplomacy is the only solution….believe me, or else…humanity has learned nothing

    • Pedro Castro

      Don’t know if you noticed but those psychos aren’t exactly within the EU…

    • Mena Abreu

      Diplomacy results when both parts want it

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      Pedro Castro < < those psychos aren't exactly within the EU...>> correct………but you have to admit that there are many alchoolic dipsomaniacs and drunktards like messie Juncker within e.u. brothel

  5. Panagiotopoulos George

    get russia to be your friend….who are y kidding, there is no threat from russia,….usa has destabilized half the world the last 60 years, why russia is a threat?loose nuclear weapons, invest on friendship, on quality of life for europeans, who the fuck are y kidding?and the media has a huge responsibility, our race doesnt have time you nuts!

    • Piero

      Russia amica… Georgia Ukraina Daghiustan….. andiamo avanti?

  6. Cãlin Rednic

    Well… it may have to be related on how brexiteers will find appropriate to position themselves towards europeans…

    • David Coughlan

      I think not Mike. I have witnessed the Russian military in operation. They could not organise a piss up in a brewery.

    • Paulo Granadeiro

      Think again David Coughlan.

      Why do you think the Israel /US is stoped in Syria ?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Mike Williams
      NATO has a population >800 million, the Russian Federation has a population of c150 million.

      NATO has a GDP > $32B, RF has a GDP c$2B.

      RUSSIA can NEVER win – but it can do terrible damage.

      I can see [via tasseomancy] that a combined NATO, China and Japanese alliance will defeat RF very quickly and thereafter apportion amongst themselves millions of ex-RF Km2 between themselves.

      In any event, tea-leaves apart – the RF must change its ways (ie it must become civilised) as technology, demographics and money will soon ‘obsolete’ its persistent threat of nuclear armageddon.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Paulo Granadeiro
      LOL!

  7. Αναγέννηση

    The current European Security and Defense Policy unit of the European Union needs to be expanded and transformed into a million man all professional EU Defense Force with a pooling of all military assests under one European Leadership in Brussels

  8. José Bessa da Silva

    Obviously not. Take Portugal for instace. It’s main military partners are the UK and the US, both outside, or soon to be, of the EU. On the other hand the only country with wich it has active territorial disputes is Spain, within the EU. The biggest opponent to Spain’ s entrance in NATO was Portugal. Portugal’s biggest fear is not Russia, but Spain…So, no, that will not happen. Specially because the EU does not hold any fondness from many portuguese which have suffered at its hands a death by a thousand cuts.

    • Pedro Castro

      What territorial dispute?

      Concerning the rest, perhaps our government shouldn’t have overspent what it didn’t have??

      I’m guessing communist?

    • Paulo Granadeiro

      Just bullshit !

      Portugal and Spain have a peaceful dispute for many years about a small village, Olivenca, so don’t make me laugh with your idiotic statement.

      Portugal and Spain joined together the EU temember ?

      Maybe it’s time to put more tobacco in that shit you are smoking !!! LOL

    • Bernd Zerker

      THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

    • Mário Lobo

      I wouldn’t call Olivença a territorial dispute…

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Olivença is a territorial dispute and so is the Selvagens and their EEZ.

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Pedro Catro, you should read before stating the same old PSD propaganda. Perhaps you forgot where that money was and is being spent? Banks. And who was in incharge of them? The BCE. Let us not even stsrt on the euro disaster and how the Troika’s plan wad such a failure that even th IMF came to public saying it was a mistake and that it was forced by the EU.

  9. José Bessa da Silva

    Obviously not. Take Portugal for instace. It’s main military partners are the UK and the US, both outside, or soon to be, of the EU. On the other hand the only country with which it has active territorial disputes is Spain, within the EU. The biggest opponent to Spain’ s entrance in NATO was Portugal. Portugal’s biggest fear is not Russia, but Spain…So, no, that will not happen. Specially because the EU does not hold any fondness from many portuguese which have suffered at its hands a death by a thousand cuts.

    • José Bessa da Silva

      Pedro Catro, you should read before stating the same old PSD propaganda. Perhaps you forgot where that money was and is being spent? Banks. And who was in incharge of them? The BCE. Let us not even start on the euro disaster and how the Troika’s plan was such a failure that even the IMF came to public saying it was a mistake and that it was forced by the EU due to political issues in third countries…

  10. Elisabeth Sommer

    Each month or even week you ask the same. What is it: opinion poll or manipulation. War monger questions! Do you do the work of War Industry? – First we should have 1 language and 1 history before we get 1 Army. Maybe in 100 Years. It’s not good to have Soldiers in the Country who cannot speak with the inhabitants AND, you young guys in EU, do you know that there are still people who do not speak for example with Germans because of HITLER!!! They dont want german soldiers in THEIR countries. And Germany have still enough US-, UK- and French Soldiers in OUR Country – who should leave.

    • Paulo Granadeiro

      Well the EU wish to the UK good fortune and f*** off with your zionist’s friends and US bullies !

      Stop bullshiting about delusional empire, you have nothing left, no mining, no industry and the finance, well it will move DAX in Frankfurt !

      Luckily you have arms dealers and Boris or Theresa May and Farrage to make your future better – LOL

  11. Robert Faulkner

    When will EU. Realise nothing to fear from Russia. . Turkey and Islam is their enemy. . Thank fcuk we’re. Out

    • Max Berre

      When the last of putin’s convenient idiots in the EU is funnel-fed with the last ruble paid into their bank accounts, and then polonium 209 is poured over their remains

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      and euroidiots like you, are paying eagerly and fervently for bailing-out eurobanksters with their taxes…..malaka

  12. Carlos Gertrudes

    Apenas alguns pontos.
    Para abordar a defesa da €U e da Europa no seu todo, o primeiro pilar será a NATO, foi e continuará a ser a NATO a defender a integridade da civilização ocidental, essa cultura judaico cristã e teutonica romana.
    Outro ponto, será que os €uropeus, estão dispostos a morrer pela €uropa?
    A avaliar pelos ódios e xenofobias internos dos países e pelos exércitos €uropeus, cada vez mais mercenarizados, parece-me pouco provável que esta €uropa chegue à década de 30.

    • Paulo Granadeiro

      Não admira que haja dúvidas sendo a primeira permissa errada ou seja, não é do interesse da Europa depender da NATO tal como não é do interesse dos US que a Europa seja auto suficiente em termos de segurança.

      Afirmar que o Islão é uma ameaça a segurança da Europa é ceder à manipulação dos judeus zionistas.

      Todos os extremistas são uma ameaça e nada têm a ver com a religião.

      Há extremistas de todas as principais religiões, a Europa para já continua aceitar Israel nas suas relações internacionais apesar do genocídio Palestiniano.

      A Europa continua a ter relações com a Arábia Saudita apesar do total desrespeito pelos direitos humanos.

      A Europa não entrará em guerra com o seu fornecedor de gás natural a Rússia e esta, não entrará em guerra com o seu melhor cliente.

      Muitas outras razões existem para desmontar as “verdades” pós guerra fria e no entanto, a manipulação continua bem como a preguiça de questionar as mentiras que nunca serão verdades por mais que sejam repetidas.

    • Carlos Gertrudes

      O Islão é uma ameaça à €uropa por ser um estado religioso intolerante com todos os que não professam a sua religião, muçulmano não se integra.
      O genocídio palestiniano é igual ao genocídio judeu antes de 48, são dois povos que não se toleram e há 5 mil anos disputam a mesma parcela de terra.
      A €uropa não entrará em guerra, a €uropa subjugar-se-á!
      Quando outras religiões puderem ser professado em países islâmicos, quando puderem coexistir diversas religiões com iguais direitos, quando islâmicos, cristãos, hindus e outras confissões puderem coexistir em países islâmicos como coexistem na €uropa, então sim, sejam bem vindos.

    • Paulo Granadeiro

      Finally ! Europe will be much better without a country of privileges and exceptions compared with the other members.

    • Adie Roebuck

      What a shame you think so little of the other 27 countries I kind of agree though.

  13. Philippe Niesen W

    Sortie de l’UE, de l’euro par l’article 50. UPR – Union Populaire Républicaine Sortie de l’OTAN !

    • Nickolas Sarakinis

      germany has not payed a mark or euro for nato owes billions and you think they will pay for euro army ?? they are printing paper and are collecting all europes gold into germany,have made W W III with out one shot to be fired with economic invasion of the rest of europe! germany should be bomed every 50 years ask them they know why!!

    • Miguel Hilário

      Nickolas Sarakinis Nobody owes anything to NATO, that’s not how it works. Every company agreed to spend 2% of it’s GDP in defence by 2020. That’s all there is to it.

    • Bernd Zerker

      Look who’se talking :D, you worthless and corrupt lot should be returned to the ottoman empire

    • Nickolas Sarakinis

      Bernd Zerker if it was not for the greeks you shit would be on the treehouses till now!

    • Nickolas Sarakinis

      Bernd Zerker you fucken savage when greece had the acropolis you used to live in caves,with all that greece has given to civilazation you will need 3000 years to match greece so dont tell me about the othoman empire they are your long past brothers from mogolia!!

  14. Γεώργιος Δανιηλίδης

    Οnly cooperation needed is to destroy terrorism and stop Turkey s threats against Greek Islands and occupation of N.Cyprus by 40.000 invantionary turkish Army.So spending cuts on needless defence are needed.

  15. Manuel Alegria

    no solution on sight…
    to many personal interests in stake…
    to many generals on today pay roll…

  16. Nick Coulson

    Of course they need an army. Who is going to restore order when the population surround a member state pro eu politicians and demand their freedom.

    • Alex Harley-Taplin

      Or present a credible alternative to the Russians while the UK is running around trying to sort an alliance with New Zealand, which will be really useful.

    • Nick Coulson

      Has been the last few times they all went on the rampage. Having had new and clever ways of running Europe. The Russians on the whole do very little attacking. Unlike the French and Germans.

    • Alex Harley-Taplin

      Nick, step into the 21st century and open your eyes. Ukraine? Crimea? For fucks sake get a dose of reality.

    • Nick Coulson

      Maybe because they felt it was another advance by the EU on their borders done in an underhand way. Where the very large Russian population resident for many centuries were not allowed a say. That’s the reality.

    • Alex Harley-Taplin

      Bollocks Nick, it was an invasion. You’re sounding like Quisling- an apologist for evil.

  17. Andy

    Yes. The main barrier to an EU army has been removed. A real threat from Russia and Islamic terrorists. Pressure from NATO + Trump to spend more. A HQ has already been set up in Brussels.

    • Paul X

      1. An EU army would be powerless against Russia
      2. The only defense against terrorism is intelligence
      3. it’s hard to see how the EU will be able to create an army of any substance by spending less?

  18. Manuel Da Bernarda

    After Brexit Britain can compete better as a financial paradise!Industry vanished from England decades ago,the ” lords are now all finance”industry”!

  19. Keith Shamrocki

    fuck this shit, first they create the problem now they want to created an Army under their command , claiming they will solve the problem they created.

  20. Matej Mlinarič

    If geopolitical interests are the same of everybody involved then by all means cooperate in order to achieve those goals. So Brexit or not nothing is really changed when it comes to defense and security of all.

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      …and will go exponentially more subsidizing expensive green policies and bailing-out eurobanksters ……………..eurogreenasshole

    • Γιώργος Ζεγκλίνας

      We already have this, dickhead. A common agreement on terms of EU defence and at the same time the dissolution of NATO should be the target. Green Policies? You made me laugh with your stupidity. Green policies is a different big story. Back to your cave!

    • Charles Steel

      Does not

      NATO makes sense and is strategic and financial

      EU army is a threat to Europe

    • Koolis Konstantinou

      στεριωτη, σκοτωσε τον ευρωρουφιανο που εχεις μεσα σου

  21. Rodney Anyan

    Without America a European Defense Force is a joke. Wake up to reality Ian Sterkopis!

    • Marco Florian

      It is not a joke and it must happen. It would be a great benefit to all of us, provided we can reach such an agreeement. Further communialities on R&D, procurement, training. Great.

  22. Rodney Anyan

    Brexit doesn’t change anything. Europe, Norway, Canada and the U.K will continue to rely on NATO. And what NATO relies on is good old Uncle Sam, who pays 70% of the budget, and also has the best military hardware. Get real folks!

    • Antonios Forlidas

      Europe of the Enlightenment, Democracy, human values , culture etc , has nothing to do with the stupid americans who are trying to sell through the dirty organization that is called NATO, the scrap F – 35΄ς to the European countries. They are trying to impose an imaginary enemy and threat that does not exist.

    • Rodney Anyan

      Well O.K Europe, break away from NATO and defend yourselves. Within five years the Russians will occupy Europe. The only European countries which have credible defence are France and the U.K. The rest are a joke! As for the Greeks, you better hope Turkey doesn’t attack now! You would have no chance…

    • Rodney Anyan

      Trump hasn’t said he’s pulling out. He has said the European countires have to start paying their share , which several countries don’t want to do. Why should the American taxpayer pay for European defence?The Europeans have sponged of America for too long! During the cold war, Europe would have been under Soviet domination if it hadn’t been for the Americans.

  23. Tim Nick Knight

    We need to. With a bit of work, we would have a strong defence, and no need for the USA. That is a reality.

  24. Marco Bianchi

    Yes but not to serve the American interests but the European ones something that the politicians seem not to understand!

  25. Pedro Cebola

    Just by reading this comments one can understand really quickly why Europe will never be a united instituition. As far as defense, we should hope and struggle for such agreement, but it will not happen. Nato cannot loose strenght in Europe. Everyone can see Germany and France strenghtening their armed forces to become the iron arm of the EU, but a joint EU army? Will never happen.

  26. Maria Do Carmo Pereira

    So who is the enemy of Europe? Russia, Europe largest country! China. A religion based organisation. Capitalisim or maybe Zionisim. Do the anglo saxon buddieshave a secret agends to hamstring continental europe. The EU vision is a grand plan. If only europeans could trust one another.

  27. Ioannis Vlachou

    I believe that there could be a “Defensive” agreement, with a number of the EU Countries interested in being part of it, like the Schengen Agreement. There are many EU countries that are facing problems at their borders, or would possibly face some problems in the future. Those are the ones that could potentialy join in such an agreement. For instance, Greece , Italy, France, Spain, e.t.c. have their southern naval borders exposed. Such an agreement could benefit those countries.

  28. Phillip Barham

    I think the fact Brussels are encouraging Spain to pursue Gibraltar? Giving Poland and Hungary this ultimatum is a strong sign that this eu is on the ropes ? Let’s get on with this negotiation ? We don’t need a one big army we just need to mind our own business and all country’s take care of there own home?all we want is easy trade

  29. Phillip Barham

    Maria do carmo pereira the enemy of Europe is Brussels and Merkel they are your biggest danger for war right now ie one central government one big eu army controlled by Brussels overseen by Merkel and the fact they are in the market for nukes? Oh yes pushing Spain’s buttons in regards Gibraltar telling everyone NATO are not capable of defending us to me this is a power show by the eu trust is defently not on the table right now

    • Marcos Markko

      It has more to do with the UK not blocking EU federation like policies any more.

  30. Iosif Karabotis

    EU is deaf and blind to the needs of people….like the nobles of 400 years ago….could not hear the voices of their people…..we are dieing from taxes and burocracy….too much!! England always been brave and wise!!!Good for them…..

  31. Mirosława Iwanów

    Ładne zdjęcie . Prezydent Trump zapowiedział że USA przestaje inwestować w NATO a ci co potrzebują ochrony NATO mają płacić za tą ochronę jak Litwa i Łotwa .

  32. Alf Bme

    No, Brexit will remove an obstacle. But Trump and NATO pulling out (which is a very likely scenario) will force the Europeans to work together in defense. Especially considering that if Germany spends the envisioned 2% of GDP on military… that would be little Germany spending more money than big Russia… or enough money for all of Europe to be armed to its teeth.

  33. Stefania Portici

    i Paesi che hanno creato tensione e guerre nel mondo sono gli Stati imperialisti : l’Inghilterra , Israele, gli USA, la Francia , la Russia . La Germania per sua natura mercantilista risponde all’imperialismo in maniera sbagliata , crea tensione anche lei . I Paesi nominati …. date un pò di pace al mondo , non ne possiamo più delle vostre malefatte

  34. Stefania Portici

    i Paesi che hanno creato tensioni e guerre nel mondo sono gli Stati imperialisti / globalisti : l’Inghilterra ,la Francia , Israele, gli USA, la Russia . La Germania per sua natura mercantilista / globalista risponde in maniera sbagliata , crea tensione anche lei . I Paesi nominati …. date un pò di pace al mondo , non ne possiamo più delle vostre malefatte

    • Paula Soares

      Que desde o séc. XVII acolhe refugiados no seu seio!

    • Horácio Chilão

      Mas também há refugiados e…refugiados! O que se passa é um êxodo muito intencional! Há que separar o trigo do joio. Considero refugiados os que fogem da guerra, os Sirios e

    • Horácio Chilão

      Mas também há refugiados e…refugiados! O que se passa é um êxodo muito intencional! Há que separar o trigo do joio. Considero refugiados os que fogem da guerra, os Sirios e vizinhos. Os demais vêm na enxurrada e a Europa não comporta tanta gente. O mundo islámico é grande, e aí é que deviam procurar abrigo! Agora que os ingleses såo muito igoístas, isso são e posso garantir isso porque convivi com eles em criança. Um bom dia!

  35. Petridis Yiannis

    this is like a FUCKIN JOKE right ??!!! the European Union was designed to oblitarate the individual national countries and bring genocide upon the indigenous european populations !!!!!!!!!!!!! IS THAT COOPERATION YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT ?????

    • Marcos Markko

      You guys don’t get it. We have to kick those damn bureaucrats out and take control of the EU. We stand a better chance together against the EU’s men in black than we do as individual little states against either the US, Russia or China.

  36. eusebio manuel vestias pecurto vestias

    YES

  37. Manuel Sepulveda

    Isto interessa-nos muito!… Pode servir para se encontrar mais uma maneira de os EU continuarem a pagar … e a UE ( nós incluídos…) lavarmos as mãos …. e fugirmos aos compromissos… E DEPOIS QUEIXEM-SE !…rsrs

  38. Bobi Dochev

    You asked so many times for this cooperation at the defence and joint army so it become more then obvious that NO it won’t because you don’t want!!!

  39. Ivan Čorak

    Against whom? Russia who we needlessly antagonize (and which uses trade warfare instead of military), China? (also trade warfare), Middle East? (which was largely ”our” doing). European Union has committed blunder after blunder.

    • Barry Farmer

      Although we are pretty good a blunders all by ourselves, huh?

  40. Tandorf

    The EU is the only country without a real defence in the world. It’s about time!

  41. Karolina

    I was going to say that there should not be any change to this. However, after reading the introduction to the debate, it sounds like there will be more cooperation. The countries who are against are too small to offer a meaningful opposition even if they unite. In the end Germany and France will be getting more of their own positions voted in favour of.

    The events in the Aegean Sea and rising Turkish aggression have exactly shown that there is the need for an EU army. NATO cannot be meaningful as long as it is harbouring an aggressor (Turkey).

  42. Cliff Wilson

    It is sad to see a debate descend to the level of a lot of this comment except it illustrates the need to defend yourself against people who cannot control themselves. It may be that Brexit will encourage greater unity in the EU which would be good. I regret that I see that happening at a political level and not a grassroots level. Sooner or later the Politicians will be removed by the ballot box. They are moving far faster than their populations.

    • Paschalis Bourletsikas

      Of course another Rothschild leader such as macron is what France needs right now… Wake up! Just because you don’t agree with her you would throw insults. You are exactly the reason why the EU is heading into anarchy.

    • Y a r i

      This Paschalis guy is one of those people who, in this historical moment of populism-led political crisis, really need to hear the words shut, up and ignorant a lot more than they have ever done in their whole life. There is nothing more you can tell them, they won’t either listen or read anything else but what they are already convinced of, like dogmatic fanatics. Shut up ignorant.

  43. Ivan Burrows

    .

    Change the word Germany for EU in this extract and you have your answer.

    ‘Unite all Germans into one nation re-arm Germany’

    Mein Kampf – 1925

  44. Bobi Dochev

    Only today you have 2 or 3 questions about army and defence… are we going to war? Who is the bloody enemy now?! Does the army capable of solving the terrorists threat – I don’t think so. Then what the hell?!!

  45. Matteo Magni

    Common Army based of Italian army model but the states won’t secede like the USA

  46. Kimmo Linkama

    It usually takes 3 to 5 comments before a comment thread degenerates into insults and propaganda, but wow, here it happened right away!

    Nevertheless, I think EU defence will follow the lines of Nato vs non-Nato more than anything else. If someone wants to posit something else, I’m ready to listen.

  47. Stefania Portici

    io credo che una difesa condivisa europea ci sia bisogno. Prima di fare questo però serve democrazia negli Stati europei , il popolo deve essere rappresentato . Se si permette che la politica sia finanziata dal mercato o dalla finanza ( come negli USA ad esempio ma non solo …..e il vizio lo si sta esportando anche in Europa tramite la UE ) ll padrone diventa il mercato e la finanza speculatrice che dirigono la “difesa” ( guerre di sottomissione dei popoli ) dove ha interesse di denaro o ruberie .

  48. Stefania Portici

    la difesa condivisa europea serve per cosa ? Serve perchè noi europei non siamo i padroni del mondo e non vogliamo esserlo . Dobbiamo essere un faro morale nel mondo : di pace , di buon senso, di giustizia sociale , di rispetto, di quieto vivere fra popoli e chiunque voglia venire a dominarci ( o voglia dominare ) imponendo con la forza regole che non hanno buon senso verso i cittadini europei TUTTI , dobbiamo essere in grado di respingerli e garantire la libertà e la dignità del popolo europeo ( libertà e dignità che non è quella intesa dagli inglesi o americani . Le parole sono le stesse ma il significato è completamente diverso)

  49. Stefania Portici

    nessuno ha interesse a fare guerre o mettersi contro gli Stati invadenti ( e penso agli USA o agli inglesi che sono i più invadenti in assoluto verso l’estero ma non ci sono solo loro anche i francesi e altri …..) . La difesa serve per difenderci ma senza una rivoluzione morale culturale , un presa di coscienza dei cittadini del mondo di quanto male fanno verso il pianeta terra a non essere capaci di interessarsi ,di occuparsi personalmente a dirigere la buona politica interna ed esterna del proprio Paese …..aivoglia a difenderti ! Vanno di pari passo, Questo mio ultimo commento è un appello verso i cittadini del mondo dal più piccolo al più grande a prendersi le proprie responsabilità senza delegare

    • Dimitri Trigonidis

      Said the Greek guy … Greece spends 50.000-70.000 Eu in ONE tucking day just to defend European airspace from the Turks

    • Γεώργιος Δανιηλίδης

      Also NATO DEFENSE ALLIANCE IS HOME OF ALMOST ALL E.U. COUNTRIES.So Turks are not enemies of EU or Greece.Or else NATO and EU are enemies …of Greece supporting Turkey s illegal claims against Greece and occupation turkish force in Cyprus.Nevertheless EU officially has not need of any new defense spending.

    • Tristan Forest

      So what about these following current operations?
      – fighting terrorism in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Mali & all Northern Africa
      – preventing terrorist/hostile attacks around our strategic places in our cities
      – fighing pirates along the Somalian coast to defend our commercial routes
      – patrolling over the Baltic states to prevent Russian intrusions
      – defending Ariane rocket launches in Guyane
      – fighting the criminal groups in Guyane that seek to steal the gold ressources in the Amazonian forest, devastating it
      – support the peace in Lebanon
      – saving the migrants in the Mediterranean Sea
      – sky police missions
      – coast guard missions

      I am not sure that armies in Europe are unnecessary, and I am sure that sharing some missions could save some money.

      For example, sky police: maybe that a few patrols in Europe could do the job properly if they could to it all over the continent. But no, they can do it only over national spaces so we need to have several patrols in each country. That may be a waste. We need these aircrafts for a better use, or to save this money.

  50. Marko Martinović

    If EU was democratic and it did not want to control its members or people, Brexit would not even happen.

    • Diaconu George Razvan

      EU is democratic , stop saying that . All democracies are problematic but EU is democratic!

    • Marko Martinović

      No its NOT! People who we did not even get a chance to vote for are forcing policy on our countries that they know nothing about. Will of the people is ignored. Most of Europeans are against Immigration but it does not matter. EU is closer to outright tyranny

    • Tobias Stricker

      Marko Martinović So, elected heads of states who decide together what is best for their nations are not democratic?

    • Marko Martinović

      Heads of other states are more numerous. One vs manny. Strangers i dont know vote for my country that they dont know or live there. Also will of the people is ignored. There is no freedom of speech etc. Tyranny

    • Paulius Paždagis

      The Elite is on to us, Marko! We must run, NOW! Only we can save the people from the true evil ones! We must discuss our retaliation plan in secret. Meet me by the Great Oak at midnight sharp!

    • Ivan Burrows

      Diaconu George Razvan How can it be ‘democratic’ when you are ruled over by an unelected president and his hand picked European Politburo ?

    • Franco Farrugia

      Marko. Did you ever voted in the MEP elections?

  51. Bogdana Drazic

    EU states have to cooperate more on defence. Relying on others to take care of our safety is reckless.

  52. Ivan Burrows

    If the EU can’t defend itself against migrants so what hope would it have against the Russians. The eastern Nations know only NATO can defend them, the EU is a liability.

    • Ivan Burrows

      Bogdan Iliuță Istrate Go tell that to the Greeks, the Italians and now the Spanish. EU fanatics have heaped misery onto millions of their peoples.

    • Mitsos Daniel

      Ivan Burrows I’m Greek. Don’t assume we feel the way you say we do based on whatever inhibitions and misconceptions you may have.

    • Ivan Burrows

      Mitsos Daniel Yet you assume all Greeks feel like you ? hypocrite.

    • Mitsos Daniel

      Ivan Burrows I never said that, but a great number of us feel the same and also help anyway we can. I merely pointed out how you can’t be so concrete on how a whole nation feels. Especially since you’re not a part of it, nor of the broader EU. I suggest you utilize your energy into helping prevent your England from falling apart and not throw anymore shit to a Union you already voted to leave out of. Before you call me a hypocrite again for assuming things about a whole nation, note that I’m half Scottish.

    • Panagiotis Dimisianos

      Commerce ? Which percentage of imports & exports for each country-member comes from other co-members ? Mainly China and extra-community markets !!

  53. Vytautas Vėžys

    Yes. We would form strong army that would beat shit of every country that even thinks about leaving Union. If they don’t understand what is good for them we must protect them from their own bad decision with best democratic tool we have – big ducking army.

  54. George Yiannourides

    Without doubt .
    Britain will no longer be able to press the brake on this issue .
    That was the reason the U.K. Was in the EU, to press the brake on further integration and keep the EU divided and weak .
    Anyone else who wishes to press the brake will be for leverage purposes .
    Britain wasn’t for leverage , a united EU defence force is a red line and it damages Britains independent military international significance .
    It will ultimately negate the relevance of NATO with the rise of an EU military power stretching from the strategically vital Baltic to the Aegean and from the Atlantic all the way through the Mediterranean Sea .
    All the way to Eastern Med and the new Gas and oil finds along the Leviathan Basin which stretch from the shores of Israel to the shores of Greece and Southern Italy .

    • Ivan Burrows

      Great Britain did not apply the break to stop integration but to stop Europeans repeating the mistakes of the past. Now you are on your own and Germany will own your EU. You have learnt nothing from your history & destined to repeat it.

  55. Andrew Potts

    Europe’s defence forces have been ordered to help collect illegal migration in the Med. Those in charge have not defended Europe’s borders. You just know that a pan European army would be used to crush dissenting European voices.

  56. Αναγέννηση

    The current European Security and Defense Policy unit of the European Union in Brussels needs to be upgrades, expanded and transformed into a all professional million personnel EU Defense Force , to construct a fortress Europe to protect the institutions of the European Union from external threats like the current Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the European Union , designed by the Turkish State to undermine the European Union institution of Schengen , which leads to the destruction of the European Union. Creation of a EU Defense Force would also put a end to the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation of EU member Cyprus since 1974 which is a British – Turkish alliance against the Americans and the Europeans in Cyprus , preventing the Americans expel the British Military forces from Cyprus since 1950 , which has been enhanced by the British State Sponsored Turkish Military invasion and occupation of Cyprus since 1974 m, that pushed the former American Bush Administration in the United States to invade Iraq in 2003 that led to the decade long American quagmire in Iraq ,all due to the American inability to expel the British and Turkish Military forces from Cyprus in the period leading up to the ascension of Cyprus into the European Union on May 1 2004.

  57. Mohammad Naeem Malik

    راولپنڈی شہر-اور-کینٹ کے کاروباری ایریا میں،
    کمرشل پلاٹ____کمرشل بلڈنگ___پلازہ___ دکانات__ برائے فروخت۔
    نیز__ بہترین ___رہائشی پراپرٹی ___کیلئے بھی رابطہ کریں
    معلومات کیلئےفون یا میسج SMSکریں
    رابط_ اعوان پراپرٹی سنٹر__ریلوے ورکشاپ روڈ راولپنڈی
    92-300-9877812+
    92-300-9726224+

  58. Enric Mestres Girbal

    The EU is not threatened by any powerful country…better cooperate in an stronger information, police and internal security.

  59. Joe Pearce

    The EU has been letting the enemy through the gate by the Millions. Merkel is wanting to let in more….

  60. Γεώργιος Δανιηλίδης

    Νato covers all external missions and air space.Terrorism in Europe is a matter of police and security forces not Army.In fact lowering of military expenses will leave more funds for public AND SOCIAL security.

  61. Fernando De Rojas Parets

    We need a common real Government elected by the people with an strong and independent power in taxes, regulations and social items.

    • José Bessa da Silva

      I already have a real government elected by the people. I do not need another and even less do I need foreigners, many o ehich enemies of the state, deciding over my nation and my future.

required
required Your email will not be published

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Notify me of new comments. You can also subscribe without commenting.