Brexit_post_15Could Brexit break-up the UK? In 2014, Scotland held a referendum on independence which nationalists lost by 55% to 45%. However, among the issues influencing Scottish voters was the fear that Scotland would be ejected from the European Union if they chose independence. Indeed, Scots tend to be more pro-EU than the English (and during the 2016 Brexit referendum a majority of Scottish voters backed continued EU membership).

Now that the UK has decided to leave the EU, and given that the British government seems to be pursuing a so-called ‘hard Brexit’ option, is a second independence vote justified? In the run-up to the Scottish Parliament elections (held one month before the June 2016 EU referendum), the Scottish National Party published a manifesto pledging to fight for a second independence referendum if Scotland was “taken out of the EU against our will”.

On 13 March 2017, Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister of Scotland, announced that she would indeed be pursuing a second referendum. She wants to hold a vote before spring 2019, when the outline of Britain’s future relationship with the EU is clearer but before it has formally left the bloc. British Prime Minister Theresa May has criticised the proposed timing of the second referendum, but has not ruled it out completely.

Should Scotland hold a second referendum on independence? Has the threat of ‘hard Brexit’ changed the equation? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – First Minister of Scotland


347 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

    • RGS

      <3

  1. Andrea Brown

    The sooner Scotland is independent, the sooner Scotland can take UK’s place in Europe. England is descending in to irrational nationalism and soon will just be a rump nation screaming about its former glory.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      Ok, so how are you going to do that exactly? Where are you going to get the money for your independence? You seem to have missed Ireland and Wales out of the equation…they’re not leaving and so no England will never be a rump nation…and before you accuse me of being English…I’m not.

    • Vladislav Kiuldjiiski

      Lol you say that nationalism and patriotism is bad but think multiculturism is good lol

    • Andrea Brown

      Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers Ireland has been independent since the 1920’s.

    • Andrea Brown

      Donald MacLennan Ulster is split between Northern Ireland and Ireland. 6 counties are in Ulster and 3 counties are in Ireland.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      Andrea Brown only part of Ireland has been independent since the 20’s, they’ve had plenty of time to grow it’s 2017 now. How are you going to pay for schools, armed forces, health service. the EU have already said you’ll be at the back of the queue.

    • Andrea Brown

      Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers Wrong. EU officials have made clear that Scotland has very little to do to join EU.

    • Paul X

      “EU officials have made clear that Scotland has very little to do to join EU”

      So these “officials” ignore the fact that Scotland’s budget deficit is three times what is required for a member state to join, the fact Scotland will refuse to join the Euro and the fact there are 4 other countries already in the queue?

      I’m not disputing your statement , it wouldn’t surprise me one bit that yet again the EU would be prepared to allow yet another country in which clearly does not meet their own defined criteria to join

    • Wendy Harris

      Scotland take UK’s place? As what? You do realise there are only 5 million of them?

    • Steuart Ralston

      Why do people insist on saying that “there is a queue” that Scotland, or anyone else, would have to sit in?
      THERE IS NO QUEUE.
      There are countries who wish to enter the EU…and they can do so when they fulfill the legislative and regulatory requirements.
      If Country B fulfills its obligations, it won’t have to wait indefinitely while Country A continues to fail in its tasks, simply because Country A popped their request in first.
      The EU can negotiate with more than one country at the same time…and, as Elmar Brok, a leading MEP said live on BBC News, “Scotland would have to negotiate, for sure…but it would be a very easy negotiation – because they already comply 100%”

      Presumably, the EU understands better than some on here, that “Scotland’s deficit” is not actually being spent BY Scotland, but ON ITS BEHALF…
      That Scotland currently has no borrowing powers to physically create this hole in the first place…and that it requires the fiscal mechanisms of an independent, self-determining country to be able to undertake the process of filling in the hole that it has been given?!

    • Donald Mackenzie

      Paul X Scotland already pays the price for being in the EU. Our fishing grounds and agriculture have been pawned off so London can get a better deal. That is under the UKs watch. Scotland will be far better off under the EU than we are at the moment having to go through Westminster.
      Also, I think most EU countries are just dying to stiff the rUK for the arrogance of the UK over the decades. Companies are already looking to leave London.

    • Paul X

      Donald, your argument does not make sense.
      Agriculture and fisheries are two areas that have driven many people to vote to leave the EU. If you look a the demographic of the Scottish vote then the closest vote to leave was Moray which has it’s fishing industry decimated. This was totally overshadowed by pro-remain voting in the central belt. This mirrors the English pattern where the greatest remain voice was from the southern counties and people in more northern rural communities voted out.

      And you cannot blame Westminster for agriculture and fishing as that has been a devolved power, to for nearly 10 years

      ….and the only arrogance has been from the EU and it’s elitist attitude that it can do no wrong and that Brexit is the fault of the people of the UK and not symptomatic of it’s own incompetence

  2. Paul X

    Yes, and when the answer comes back the same as last time the SNP will have no reason to exist and maybe Scotland will get a government that puts the people above their own political ambitions

    • Terry

      So can you explain why the SNP were again voted into power by the Scottish people? How do you think they will do in the up and coming Council elections?

    • Shona Gourlay

      I can’t believe you think the SNP are u this for their own gain! About the only political party in the UK that do care c about the people first.
      Stop watchingt the beeb and reading unionist rags and learn some facts about what is really going on in the UK! Do you really think you will be better off with brexit and Tory rule for the next decade.

    • Caroline Finn

      The only way to disband the SNP is to vote for independence.

    • Paul X

      Thank you Shona and I can assure you I have a very good idea of what is going on in the UK which does not involve reading unionist rags… also SNP propaganda ends up in my recycling and if you think the time and expense they put into slagging off Westminster and calling for referendums would not be better used in some constructive politics them I can only assume you are not a taxpayer

      And yes, Brexit with the Scottish government getting on and making the most of the devolved powers it already has (and more may be given) is preferrable to a Scotland independant from the UK and outside the EU.
      If Scotland can meet the financial joining criteria (if it ever can), and if admitted there will be the Euro, shared fishing rights, extra taxation on oil and no doubt many other concessions given up for joining as a new country.
      The SNP is trying to pretend that Scotland will get preferential treatment from the EU for being such a “loyal servant”, unfortunately all it takes is for 1 or the 27 to raise an objection and Scotland will be left in a global no mans land, then you will realise what true independence is all about

    • Donald Mackenzie

      We are not to get any more powers though Paul. Did you not here May’s speech in Glasgow. She said we were not to get the promised fisheries and agriculture back and that further devolution would now be halted. We also now know Westminster doesn’t need to listen to Edinburgh about anything and can even close Edinburgh down if it wants. Get your head out of the sand man.

      Oh, and the powers we have been granted are mostly unusable in any meaningful way. It was a trap so that they could then bleat on about how the SNP should be trying to stop Westminster austerity. If you didn’t see that coming or can’t admit to it you shouldn’t be commenting on Scottish politics. Come on you know it is true. Take that step. Admit it.

    • Paul X

      ..and you need to stop believing all the SNP rhetoric Donald. Agriculture and Fishing are already devolved to Holyrood and nothing in May’s speech said they would be taken back to Westminster, her exact words on the matter were……

      “And in policy areas where responsibilities are devolved, we will look for ways to collaborate and work together with the devolved administrations to improve the outcomes for everyone”….
      ….so once the UK is out of the EU, Scotland will be determining it’s own Agriculture and Fishing policies whilst “working together” with the UK government (assuming the SNP can actually stop being so confrontational and learn to “work together”, something they so far have been incapable of doing)

      ..and if the devolved powers are so meaningless why am I now paying more tax then someone south of the border? the SNP Government has plenty of power it just doesn’t have the competence to use it preferring to spend it’s time continually blaming Westminster in a blinkered drive for independance

      My head is well out of the sand and looking at all the hard facts before Queen Nicola has another attempt to get her own throne, and so far there is absolutely no logical or financial case for Scotland to leave the UK and (try to) rejoin the EU

    • Mark

      You seem to be suggesting independence parties cease to exist once they’ve gained independence. That surely isn’t accurate – there are multiple examples. You also appear to suggest that it’s reasonable to expect that politicians would put citizens above personal ambition power and politics. That doesn’t seem to be a very realistic viewpoint either – BoJo a case in point .
      So what is the point of the comment?

    • Rhona Grant

      Well said.

    • Mark

      Absolutely right.

  3. Bobi Dochev

    Why the hell only Scotland?! Because it is better for you?! What about referendums in Catalonia, Veneto, Flandres and so on and so on?!!!
    It should be YES to anyone who want to hold a referendum, not to those who serve your (Brussels) stupid politics!!!

    • Kevin

      Scotland isn’t a region
      It’s a country

    • Sandy Jean Kerr

      Scotland’s case for independence is stronger due to the fact that it is a COUNTRY, not a region.

  4. Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

    It’s a pointless argument. The people of Scotland overwhelmingly voted against independence, the majority of Scottish people do not want to have another referendum.

    • カメニャク マリオ

      55-45 is not overwhelming, it’s quite close. Many Scots were swayed by the fact that leaving the UK back then meant leaving the EU. They did not want to leave the EU. Now post Brexit referendum those, Scots that wanted to stay in the UK, only because they also wanted to stay in the EU feel betrayed. Also polls about Scottish independence now show that Scotts want to leave the UK.

      Brexit will happen, and it will have consequences.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      カメニャク マリオ no they don’t, have you spoken to many Scottish people?

    • Andrea Brown

      Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers I am Scottish born. Since Brexit the amount of people supporting independence has risen dramatically.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      Andrea Brown I’m also Scottish born and I’ve yet to find anyone who wants it.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      except you of course. but again, how will Scotland support itself

    • Paul X

      “Many Scots were swayed by the fact that leaving the UK back then meant leaving the EU” …..those same Scots will realise that leaving the UK will not guarantee staying in the EU……..add to that the conditions that would be imposed on Scotland if it tries to rejoin the EU and the fact that financially Scotland is in a worse position than it was for the previous referendum and I’m pretty sure the vote this time will be even more against …so bring it on and lets put this to bed once and for all (or at least for another 2 years until the SNP finds another excuse )

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      Dave Dillon 13 billion doesn’t even scratch the surface. HOw will you pay your armed service, how will you set up and run a health service, social care, etc. Which currency will you use how will you set up immigration controls. 13 billion is like pocket change.

    • Jim Izzard Snr

      What armed service.? Where will that come from.?

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      Jim Izzard Snr Well I’m guessing they’ll have to create one? they don’t have their own currently, it’s the British armed service currently.

    • Paul X

      During the first referendum the SNP assumed it would be simply taking over the existing Scottish military establishments……
      …….except for Faslane of course, clearly the SNP aim is to “cherry Pick” it’s military

    • Miguel Wilkins

      Doesn’t even scratch the surface? the entire NHS in Scotland costs about 11bn. Scotland doesn’t need an army – if any cretins want to become hired thugs for the corporations then I’m sure the english will still be fine to rely on them hugely.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      Miguel Wilkins so you don’t want to have social housing, a police force, no infrastructure. what about immigration control which they will have to set up and more importantly which currency will they use? You need to do some more research. 13 Billion is not enough to run an independent state…not even close.

    • William Beedie

      Yes they do, I wouldnt believe the media, next they will be telling you that Putin helped theYes campaign

    • Dee Dun

      I’m one of the Scottish people who want independence. Never assume to be the voice of the many. You are only qualified to talk about yourself. And not all pro independence people participate in these discussions.

    • Steuart Ralston

      Are you being deliberately obtuse, Kirstie?

      The £13 billion is from ONE sector of industry…it isn’t the whole economy.

      If you’re struggling so much with that…then you’d be better reading more, and typing less!

      And if you reply back telling us that you know that the economy is more than that one sector…then it means your comments were deliberately misleading.

      So…are you being deceitful with your remarks…or simply uneducated?

    • Shona Gourlay

      You’ve been listening to Ruthie, Mundell and Theresa May. Try listening to the actual people that matter, the Scottish people.
      Yes they lost the last ref, because of the promises and lies from Project Fear. Now things have changed, as does politics all the time. Now we will be independent and free from WM while England becomes a lonely wee country with no Scottish resources to rely on!

    • Anne Reid

      Yes we do.

    • Kevin

      I’m Scottish and I damn well want another referendum
      We were told our place in Europe was only safe as part of the uk so we voted to stay part of the uk (2014)
      Last year we also voted to remain in the EU (62%) but the English voted to leave
      That’s twice we’ve voted to remain but we are being dragged out
      There’s a clear mandate for a referendum and contrary to what you believe it’s looking like there is enormous support for independence
      The quicker the better

    • Donald Mackenzie

      The economic arguments will b met head on this time. For instance GERS is being treated with suspicion by economists like Richard Murphy http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/03/15/more-on-why-gers-might-properly-be-called-crap-data/ and Deloitte – the big international accountancy business – who recently confirmed that GERS tells us nothing at all about the future finances of an independent Scotland. In that judgement they were recently joined by the Fraser of Allander Institute.
      So, all this stuff about Scotland’s apparent 15 billion deficit is just made up. The treasury are going to be pushed to come up with a better way of working out what the real figures are.
      Scotland has huge renewables potential (despite the UK government trying to take us down a dodgy and very expensive Hinkley point Chinese Communist Party backed nuclear program) , gaming industry potential, food and drink, tourism etc. We have the most highly educated population in the EU according to the UKs Office for National Statistics with more people with degree and above qualifications than anywhere else per population. Scotland would be utterly fine and a rich country. There are massive oil fields to the West of Shetland that while hard to exploit at the moment are becoming exploitable as we speak due to increased technological advances. Expolitable even at low prices now. It was estimated that there would be a 100 years of exploitable oil. http://www.cityam.com/261374/enquests-share-price-edged-up-cost-cutting-measures-lifted

    • Donald Mackenzie

      The people of Scotland pay taxes. We are at the moment British. That means we own a share of everything considered British. We have had our own NHS for some time, we would get a share of the military, a share of all the other assets we have helped build over the last 3 centuries. Why do people think it (all the assets) is all England’s. Is this not a little bit imperial, supremacist…as if Scotland were some colony? Why would England or the rUK get everything and Scotland nothing? Why would we get none of the military? Why would the Queen decide she didn’t want to be the Queen of Scotland when she was happy to be the Queen of every ex colony etc.
      What you all forget is that we would be housing Trident until you got your act together to get it out of our country. That would mean you would have to play extremely nicely. The world will be watching.

    • Paul X

      Donald, at the end of the day all the economic arguments, for whichever side and from whichever source, need to be taken with a pinch of salt. The fact is no-one can say with any certainty what the economic situation would be if Scotland was independent. The whole thing is about risk assessment. Brexit is a big risk but it is going to happen. By comparison Scottish independence with the possibility of not immediately (or potentially even not at all) rejoining the EU is a risk on a completely different level, multiply both risks and as I see it nobody with any sense would take such a chance

      And Trident is pretty much irrelavent in the big scheme of things. it was tagged onto the last referendum as a way of the SNP getting one of their long standing anti-UK gripes onto the table. If Trident goes south of the border Scotland won’t be a safer place (it may go just over the border so any perceived accident risks will be exactly the same) The reason it keeps getting dragged up is because of SNP liberal/green agenda and their portrayal of it as some pseudo-imperialist “imposition” on Scotland by the UK government, the truth is it is there for strategic reasons to defend the whole of the UK and the only losers if it moves will be the civilian employees of Faslane and the local economy which relies heavily on the 1000’s of servicemen stationed there

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      the UK voted, that included Scotland. Scotland is still part of the UK therefore we’re all out. They can go for indyref2 but I would bet my life the result will be the same.

    • Carles Lizondo Osset

      Neither UK nor EU will remain the same in time. Believe me, I am Spanish, I know what I say. So relax and accept ;-)

    • Mitsos Daniel

      Ivan Burrows learn to read. The EU just made it clear to Scotland that there’s no room for further discussion about its membership AS LONG AS IT REMAINS A PART OF THE UK. Also, once Scotland applies as an independent nation, the process would be fast paced.

    • Martin Sneddon

      Mitsos , the Scottish people have voted it was a resounding NO , it will still be a resounding NO, you really need to look at the Brexit result voting pattern in Scotland , only 67% of the Scottish Poll turned out , of that 62% voted Leave , this means 41% of overall of the Scottish Poll voted leave , this is not the will of the Scottish people, if we had known that the SNP would use our Brexit vote to leave the UK ,everybody in Scotland would have exercised there vote differently , this is why there is no mandate .

    • Dave Dillon

      Ivan Burrows I am sure that the Evening standard being a tory bias London publication has its fingers on the pulse of Scotland’s electorate. While i am sure that Scotland’s 4 billion in whisky production would make a nice little bargaining chip with the EU…

    • Joe

      Scotland has all the infrastructure in place already army, police etc etc and we are entitled to our share of what is ours we have paid for it over the years … we have plenty resources, more than England per head of population. This is why Scotland has been kept by Westminster for so long… we make them money! All the propaganda makes us think we can’t afford to be independent but of course we can … we are a canny, inventive wonderful nation.

    • Paul X

      Well technically yes but as Scotland had the second worst turnout for the referendum (NI being the worst) there was a clear lack of interest in the whole thing and in reality only about 40% of the population voted to remain, not quite the “resounding” vote the SNP love to quote

    • Donald Mackenzie

      The thing is Kirsty there is over 180,000 EU citizens in Scotland who were largely frightened last time into voting no. They won’t be this time. That and people can see the lies of the vow and the utter contempt with which Scotland’s cross party contributions to the Scotland Act were treated at Westminster.

    • Sandy Jean Kerr

      Just over 1,000 people took part in that poll, it’s barely relevant.

  5. Pere Planas

    A big yes! And the Catalans also yes. On this 2017. The old imperialism of britain and Spain is dead! We want to say yes to democracy and the european values from the self-determination right.

  6. Paulo Especial

    If they should?

    Yes, because the UK government is in direct opposition regarding the will of the Scottish!

    If Scotland should become fully independent or just gain more authonomy, that would probably be a best answer since the independence referedum occured not that long ago…

    • Paul X

      “Yes, because the UK government is in direct opposition regarding the will of the Scottish!”

      Because in 2014 the “will of the Scottish” was to remain part of the UK …….but wouldn’t it be great if you vote for a government but everytime they do something you don’t like you demand a referendum on it?

    • Dee Dun

      We are still waiting on the powers promised and yet again Gordon Brown has surfaced offering option 3. Lol another lit of promises\how they will disappear into the ether.

    • Anradh O

      “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is
      a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in
      2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”
      -Page 25 of the SNP’s 2016 manifesto. Those are the EXACT words.

    • Steuart Ralston

      Do you just keep churning this mince on every site, hoping someone won’t challenge you?!

      In the run-up to an election, a party creates a manifesto of expectations and commitments.
      If people like it…they VOTE for it.
      If enough people VOTE for it….YOU WIN!!!!

      By winning…the VOTERS turn your Manifesto into….. A MANDATE!

      Democracy seems to be a real problem for you?!

      If the voters didn’t like the idea of having this level of protection…then the SNP wouldn’t have won with the largest ever constituency vote.

  7. catherine benning

    Why would anyone want to take power away from one Parliament to give it to another that is made up of corporate thieves?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAq1q1_swyM

    This women running that show is demented by power delusion . The EU is strangulation of every part of peoples lives, Westminster is simply a watcher and once it is free to leave the secretive Europe it has around its neck all our lives will be freer.

    This video tells all Brussels business

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiUqf99kq8U

    See this boy is the true leader of the blind Scots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7I313EuvBk

    • Anradh O

      Freer under Westminster? Your current Prime Minister is the author of the Snooper’s Charter, and your last one spoke like an Orwellian comic-book villain about punishing people for ideas even when they hadn’t broken the law… You can’t get much less free than a country where opinion and freedom of thought are restricted.

  8. Gordon Watson

    Don’t give a hoot no matter who runs the country we are all f d anyway fae the money grabbing MP scum.

  9. Μάρκος Κουντουρούδας

    I wonder why Scotland want to leave it’s safe Sovereignty under U.K. institutions and become a German-Slave-dependent ? And believe me being under German rulership is Awful …! Check what Germans are doing to Greece, they Destroying it and take all it’s wealth, leaving Greeks without any hope for the future !

    • Marian Rodu

      You should be thankful the Germans haven’t really made the Greeks their slaves because you’d deserve it. It was the Greek governments that lied about the state of the economy in order to join the Eurozone and THEY were the ones that took the loans they could not repay and the GREEKS are the ones that are unwilling to make the sacrifices needed to start getting out of the mess you’ve created for every one

      Practically, Greece is a dead wait tied to the Eurozone countries . It can’t be thrown out without dire repercussions, it doesn’t want to reform and the status quo is not good either.

      Call Berlin back when you are ready to make massive cuts to the public sector and become serious about collecting taxes and investing in the economy.

    • Μάρκος Κουντουρούδας

      Spare the Insult notions to your compatriots. My family was destroyed by the German-Nazis in WWII…and never compensate anyone. And, really ? When the E.U. countries admitted Greece in the Eurozone, didn’t check the balances and the other economic figures and criteria ? I think Gerhard Schroeder, the German Chancellor was so in favor at that time for the admission of Greece to the Eurozone (!!!). And finally, you miss something : We Are Not Going to Sacrifice any more for this Racist and Tyrannic E.U., and I’ll be glad to Exit from this Pit !

    • Μάρκος Κουντουρούδας

      Marian Rodu Oh..and I forgott : For Germans and the Northerns, you Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, Albanians, will always be “Balkanians” = 2nd or 3rd category-people, so …They Don’t Care about You !

    • Ross frader

      Because the Westminster have been draining scotland of its resources for decades.
      300 years ago the people of scotland did not want to join the union, they were forced.( parcel of rogues). Taken us into illegal wars. Not in my name and many other scottish people. Unfortunately scotland is in debt due to Westminster. We should have savings like norway.

  10. William Sneddon

    Stuff the EU we are out on 29th March thank God.
    Scottish people voted leave and voted NO for independance.
    Both referendums were 100% democratic.
    All the foreigners commenting on here should take a long hard look at their respective countries and note how your cultures are dying and being taken over by a murdering religious cult.
    At least the people of Great Britain have got our country back ….

    • Claudiu Romanescu

      You’re right. When you brits will starve, we shall discuss again about it.

    • William Sneddon

      What just like your people in Romania….
      You know absolutely Zero about Great Britain.

    • David Fuzzey

      Claudiu Romanescu what a pratt you are.

    • Irene Rosa

      Is Great Britain a country? Does it mean that Northern Ireland isn’t part of your country? And is the UK a country? So why hasn’t the UK, for example, a national football team representing that “country” in the European Cup or in the World Cup?

    • William Sneddon

      Romania…corrupt to the core, a country where gypsies are voted to become Mayors and actually conduct their mayor duties from prison…you could not make that up!
      Has the most pick pockets than any other country in the world.
      So corrupt Russia still controls their oil and gas.

    • William Sneddon

      Great Britain and Northern Ireland …football is not political and these are the home nations and incidently have seperate competitions yearly.

    • William Sneddon

      Do you not complain about all the Indians that use portugese passports to infiltrate your country?

    • William Sneddon

      The united kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ….United as home countries.
      Take a look at a British passport….

    • William Sneddon

      Irene Rosa…you should know this as you are a school teacher.
      Unless of course the liberals have changed our history too.

    • Mondo Gecko

      Great Britain is an self adopted imperial epithet. England (the country) isn’t an empire any longer. We are living at a time where we are witnessing then end of an empire. Britain is not a country, it’s a geographical description of a small archipelago off the northern coast of europe. You are British as a function of geography not nationality (and will remain so after Brexit and after Scottish independence.) the small island that forms “great Britain” is composed of Scotland and England – two separate and distinct countries and cultures. The UK is a political construct created by a treaty of union and formalised by an act of union, however they did NOT join up to become one country. The treaty of union is just that, a treaty, in much the same way that being a member of the EU is based on a treaty and as Brexit has shown, all you need to do is cancel the treaty. So to repeat Britain and British is your geographical description of where you live, English (or Scottish or Welsh or N. Irish) is your nationality and describes what country you are from. UK-ish as far as I am aware is not a nationality.

    • Aly Mac

      The Scottish people did not vote leave. 62% voted to stay in the EU.

    • Aly Mac

      The Scottish people did not vote leave. 62% voted to stay in the EU.

    • Paul X

      Supposing the 62% Scottish vote had been enough to keep the UK in the EU against the wishes of the people of England…..do you think the English would be up in arms demanding independance from Scotland so they can leave the Eu?

    • Donald Mackenzie

      PaulX yes I think they definitely would do. Besides there will be a vote tomorrow in the Scottish Parliament of our democratically elected representatives and another referendum will be asked for. The last one was won by around 200,000 votes I believe. There are over 180,000 EU citizens in Scotland who will not be in the mood to vote No this time. Broken vows, contemptuous Westminster to cross party wishes of Scottish Parliament in Scotland Act, May ignoring Sturgeons compromises, being ripped out of the EU, a load of broken promises no prospect of a Labour Government, no prospect of a last minute breach of purdah and a new vow that would be immediately reneged on….

  11. kevin

    Not yet . They had one only recently and nothing has changed since then apart from Jimmy Crankie getting all unnecessary . Maybe after Brexit and the deals are done when they know what they will be leaving or indeed joining they can again vote to leave or remain within the UK .
    Ultimately though its for Scotland to decide ,I wish them well .

    • Anradh O

      The SNP actually campaigned in 2016 on having another independence referendum if Scotland voted to remain in the EU but were dragged out anyway; having it after we’ve been taken out is a little too late, if you ask me, especially when we were promised that our place in the EU was only secure if we stayed part of the UK to begin with.

    • Donald Mackenzie

      Yeah Kevin, thatb is what Sturgeon said. She wants the referendum once the deals are done and we know what we will be getting. Do try and keep up. This will take around two years according to the UK gov (late 2018 or early 2019 Sturgeon said). Sturgeon wants it once we know the deal.

  12. George Miller

    If independance is good for england…it will be good for scotland..england rip us off more the eu did to england.

    • kevin

      Rip you off ? Scotland on its own is an economic basket case , worse than Greece , it wouldn’t even meet the requirements to re-join the EU .Take away the English crutch and its hard to see where its economy would go .

    • Mondo Gecko

      Kevin if you get a moment search for this on you tube
      “Scottish Independence David McWilliams – RTÉ1” it’s pretty informative

    • Anradh O

      It quite clearly wasn’t.

    • stephen park

      Naw it wisnae…

  13. Fraser

    I’m tired of yoons saying “How will an independent Scotland stop its economy from collapsing”

    How about in the same way that every other independent nation does? With excess resources on top!

  14. Jude De Froissard

    So Scots prefer to be under Brussels,Berlin,Frankfurt etc….a insignificant part of the E.U. a german protectorate ?Is this what you call freedom ?
    Be proud to be part of the U.K..Many British great men an women were from all parts of th U.K. Be realistic and logical and not provincial and falsely nationalistic.

    • Anradh O

      Not quite as simple as you, my less than erudite friend. Consider using the internet to do some research on who the Nazis were, and who the SNP are, instead of letting the fact that they both have a majuscule ‘n’ in their names convince you that they’re one and the same.
      While you’re at it, consider comparing some recent Conservative Party legislation regarding freedom of speech laws and privacy. I assure it, it’ll make for some some rather enlightening reading.

    • Tom Livingstone

      best laugh all day …thank you….wonderful stuff

    • Stevo Adams

      Yep…funny how everyone else is brain deed apart from the SNP and their sheep know alls. They crave “Independence” so badly from the English/UK that they then want to hand their craved-for-Independence right over to Brussels? ….Oh yes…..that’s right…..we None SNP Nazis …. we are all “brain deed”. Scary stuff. (Y)

    • Dee Dun

      Not from England, from Westminster. There are also many regions of England that would like more control away from Westminster.

  15. Gordon Webster

    This has bugger-all to do with Europe. The Scottish People voted decisively, in 2104, to remain in the UK. The Petition demanding No Second Referendum, is nearly 200,000. We said NO, and NO is what we meant.

    • Anradh O

      ‘We?’ How presumptuous.

      Page twenty five of the 2016 SNP manifesto. Read it.
      Results of that election. Google them.
      Results of the EU membership referendum. Google them.
      Now extrapolate.

    • John

      There’s over 5 million people in Scotland so 200k is not really a majority plus that petition can be signed by anyone with a uk postcode. The Scottish people voted on a pretence of the vow for a federal like state with a secure future within the eu single market, more devolved powers etc. What it got was the opposite. Why are unionists scared of Scotland getting another referendum? If you are so sure it will be a no vote again surely that would be the end of the snp?

    • Paul X

      To be honest I don’t think its the unionists that are scared of another referendum for exactly the reason you state, currently the result has to be a resounding no.

      To have any chance of getting the result they want the SNP has a huge task to present a sound financial case and also give the true facts on what conditions will be imposed on Scotland for rejoining the EU…… and most importantly how Scotland intends to survive between leaving one union and joining another?

  16. Ioannis Anagnostopoulos

    “the Scottish National Party published a manifesto pledging to fight for a second independence referendum if Scotland was “taken out of the EU against our will”.

    That settles it. Scotland must decide whether or not wants to go on with such a substantial change of the status quo. A status quo that had been guaranteed in the first referendum from the NO party.

  17. Vassiliki Xifteri

    I am not Scottish. Only Scottish have the right to answer such a question. If I were a Scottish, I would like to have my independence.

    • Stevo Adams

      Two Frau Sturgeon & Adolf Salmond fans.

    • Vassiliki Xifteri

      Stevo Adams Nope… Βασιλική Ξυφτέρη=independent thinker…

  18. Erik Kristiansen

    Of course they should. Our government has the mandate. An even greater mandate that Brexit. The EU referendum was triggered on a mandate of 35%, a Scottish referendum can assuredly be triggered on a mandate of 52% (including indy supporting greens.) Scotland voted decisively to remain in the EU. Brexit changes everything and the Scottish people have the right to decide their future once again. One has to ask, why are those who voted NO (and I was one of them, no longer though,) so adamant to deny the Scottish another say? You got your answer and don’t want any change? Afraid of the new answer? Don’t actually care for democracy now you have your answer?

    • Stevo Adams

      I like the way you’ve chosen “democracy” to describe the voting system. lol

    • Steven Boyzi

      KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT OF SCOTTISH BUSINESS IT’S NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

    • Erik Kristiansen

      Oh it’s completely undemocratic. But it’s how it works

  19. Lorna Shiels

    No. The politics of grievance and division are damaging my country.

    • Andrew C

      No they’re not ?

  20. Sam Black

    Why do she just want to hold referendums until she gets what she wants Scotland got enough problems without another referendum

    • Anradh O

      At what point did answering a poll become such a hardship?
      have you considered that the desire for a referendum might in fact be in response to those self-same problems?
      We’re currently renewing a bunch of weapons whose sole purpose is to kill or threaten to kill millions of civilians, for the cost of the entire Greek economic debt. Who made that choice? Not us…
      We ended up in a war in Syria that created the very refugees everybody now seems to think aren’t our problem. Who voted for that? Not us…
      What about the charter allowing your personal browsing history to be sold to all and sundry without your knowledge or permission? Nope. Didn’t vote for that either.
      How about staying in the EU? Well, yeah. We didn’t vote for that, but we’re leaving anyway.
      A why can all of this happen? Westminster.

    • Paul X

      @ Anradh O
      Clearly you missed all the divisive animosity and at times outright hatred stirred up during the last referendum campaign? to suggest it was just “answering a poll” is like describing the second world war as a “small scuffle”

      Trident is a deterrent, it is there to prevent millions of deaths which is far more likely if we had nothing to dissuade a country like North Korea from flexing it’s might

      Syria was a civil war, it would have happened with or without us, in fact if we had got involved sooner it may not have got so out of hand

      Browsing history?…simple, don’t look at porn

    • Donald Mackenzie

      PaulX Do you really think North Korea is afraid of Trident? Or, could it be all the other nuclear missiles pointed its way that might even work!?

      As for divisiveness the Scottish Campaign was as nothing compared to the EU one. Hate crime did not rise as it did in England. The only violence we saw was from unionist, fascist, football thugs after the result was in. Tell me of a single violent act carried out against a unionist during the campaign.

      More hyperbole will get us nowhere. Can’t we have a reasoned debate without all the silly hyperbole this time?

    • Paul X

      Donald, one thing you do not see in my post is any accusations aimed at one side of the campaign or the other, from what was being reported there seemed to be totally unacceptable actions on both sides and I personally wouldn’t like to see that again

      Your reference to Glasgow I believe…..

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13187211.Police_charge_32_people_following_probe_into_post_referendum_violence_in_Glasgow/

      But equally abhorrent….

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-historic-day-marred-by-isolated-reports-of-intimidation-abuse-and-violence-9741987.html

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11102194/Threats-intimidation-and-abuse-the-dark-side-of-the-Yes-campaign-exposed.html

    • Mark O'Neill

      The independace party will NEVER end until we have taken out country back!! #AlbaGuBtath

  21. Rosy Forlenza

    absolutely it should! The EU needs to understand that the Scots have been EU citizens before the Spanish, Porgughese and Greeks, before the Danes, the Swedes and the Fins. To intimate as Baroso did during Indyref1, That Scotland would join a long queue was an appalling disregard of the democratic process (Scotland should have had an automatic place that was guaranteed because anything less was not a real choice). At present this UK government or London Government has shown an abject disregard for its citizens abroad, the 48% who do not want their citizenship removed by force, Eu citizens there. In addition it has shown a side of itself to the ‘devolved governments’ that indicates they matter not a jot! So yes, Scotland needs indyref 2, and needs to make a real choice. I would hope this time that the EU has enough nouse to guarantee the place that Scotland already has should it decide to become an autonomous government.

  22. Anradh O

    Reading these comments convinces me that the electorate has some pretty short memories. Yes, we had a referendum recently, but we made that decision based on a situation that no longer exists. YOU might still be happy with your original vote, but others aren’t happy with the broken promises made by Westminster.
    Why are you so afraid of even asking the question? Is it because you realise that things HAVE actually changed enough to change the result and you simply don’t care about democracy unless it gets you what you alone want? Because if the situation hasn’t actually changed, then surely we’ll vote No again, won’t we?

  23. Thorfinn Geddes

    Aye David and, some of those who do, are baying for access to our fishing grounds. Spain which, bans the other countries from fishing in its waters being but, one of them.We can trade well enough with the EU ,we dont need to join it. As things stand we, as part of the UK Union, get a piss poor deal from being in the EU, the grants it “bestows” on us being less than a third of what it takes from us. Just as it is with being within the UK Union, the EU does not benefit us, we are nett contributers to it.

  24. Tom Livingstone

    Just a little tip.. independence support just loves people who say ” it was a UK Vote “….the whole point is Scotland can never be represented by a UK Vote because it is Always out -voted Ten to One….Saying ” it was a UK Vote ” is winning votes for a Separate Scotland …everyone in Scotland knows this which is why they let you keep on saying it.

    • Tony Ryan

      Maybe we should balance the books by letting Scots, Welsh and N. Irish folk 4 votes each, or would that be the tail wagging the dog? Over 1 million people in Scotland voted to leave the EU.

    • Tom Livingstone

      Everyone gets a vote and everyone elects a Parliament…that is the way democracy works and it should be respected because a lot of people made a lot of sacrifices to make it happen…..For your benefit I shall point out again that no matter what Scottish people vote for in UK Parliament or in a UK Referendum they are outvoted at Ten to One and it has always been so….those who continue to cite The UK Referendum are adding to the Scottish Nationalist case for political separation….I have no information on dogs or tails .

  25. Gerry McGlynn

    If you want.a referendum. Why not have one now??. Why wait. They could then tell us where’s the money for an independant Scotland going to come from, and what’s the currency going to be, because it won’t be the pound. So lets have a vote now. Not next year or year after. Hey Queen Niicola now there’ a thing to behold.

    • Tony Ryan

      They waited from when they got in in 2007 to 2014 for their referendum as they knew they couldnt win, they know they wont win this time but want to stir up as much trouble as possible to prevent the U.K government from getting the best leaving arrangements and to strengthen their position, traitors to all 4 nationalities of the U.K.

    • Scotswoman

      Why won’t our currency be the pound sterling? It’s as much ours as anyone elses. Not that we need to use it. We have our own Scottish pound

    • Colin

      I think Lord King, former Governor of Bank of England is slightly better qualified to comment than your good self…..and he seems to think Scotland would be just fine……… the pound doesn’t belong to England…..it was in use in Scotland long before the Union came into effect. May is far too scared of losing the vote to have a Referendum now……..why else do you think she reacted like that…….running scared of the outcome…….. But there is some sense in letting people choose which Union they want. They voted for both but can only gave one. The notion they can’t choose is simply UN-democratic and May will be forced to give in eventually…..

    • Paul X

      “Why won’t our currency be the pound sterling?”

      Because you want to rejoin the EU

    • Donald Mackenzie

      Paul Rejoining the EU will not mean we have to use the Euro. There are many countries out there that have joined but that don’t use the Euro. You knew that though…right?

    • Paul X

      Donald, what I do know is that one of the conditions for joining the EU is…

      “Countries wishing to join need to have the ability to take on and implement effectively the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union”

  26. David Thomson

    It is inappropriate to have another independence reference until the definitive outcome of the Brexit negotiations is known AND there is a definitive statement on behalf of the EU on the terms which will be offered to Scotland if Scotland wishes to apply for membership of the EU or the Single Market covering in particular such matters as membership of the euro, the position re Scotland’s deficit and whether we will be required to be part of Schengen area and the implications for the UK/Scorland border and whether Scotland will be a net contibutor to the EU budget. We also need an indication of the likely timescale to join the EU or the Single Market. Also required is a definitive statement on behalf of NATO on conditions Scotland will require to meet to become a membord
    Voters are entitled to have authoritative statements of fact and opinion made available to them so that they can make a decision.
    Both the 2014 independence referendum and the 2016 EU referendum were damaged by unsubstantiated assertions and opinions.

    • Donald Mackenzie

      We were promised one if certain things happened. We voted accordingly and now they have happened. The Scottish Parliament (our representatives that were democratically elected) will vote for a referendum tomorrow. That is democracy and recent polls have shown a growing Yes vote hovering around and even over in some 50%. It is game on people.

  27. Wendy Harris

    Give the UK a referendum on separation from Scotland and they’ll be more likely to gain their independence than if they vote for it themselves. We are fed up with their stupid splinter group of 1.6 million pro-Remain Scots trying to dictate to the rest of the country.

    • Craig Carter

      But we always have majority maybe one day you minorities will count lol

    • Dee Dun

      Sounds good to me. And those 1.6 million were 62% of the Scottish nation. We are not a region of England.

    • Andrew C

      That “splinter group” makes up the vast majority of Scots who voted ?

  28. John Connell

    yes we should to get rid of sturgeon and her 1 agenda party . they lost the vote in 2014 enough said no get on with running this country into the ground

    • Craig Carter

      You will have them forever democracy isn’t a win and give up regime as long as they keep majority they will push indy as soon as we push britnats out we are guaranteed to get it we were always going to get it lmao.

  29. Joao Yohanan

    It will be a pitty to see the Scotts go, specially after such a clear vote against the Brexit.
    In any case, if you go, leave some of that tasty scotch for us to remember you by, as a goodbye gift. :)

    • Tony Ryan

      Scotts porridge oats? I think you mean Scots mate.

    • Joao Yohanan

      Was going for Scots, but then saw here someone writting Scotts and went with it.
      Mas é possivel que sim meu amigo, posso-me ter enganado.
      How do you manage in my native language, mate? :)

  30. Bob Clifford

    No an independent Scotland will be isolated on a Northern part of an island shared with the United Kingdom.The majority of our trade routes pass through England and the UK is our major trading partner.Having a different currency to the rest of Europe will reduce our wealth and growth, it would be a disaster .

  31. Alex Mcgee

    Fuck right off the lot of you no means no and that’s that OK so all you Yesmen and women fuck right off OK

  32. Karolina

    Yes, it should. The situation has changed.

  33. George Reid

    God preserve us from “Schrödinger’s Unionists”: simultaneously they complain about the Scots being subsidy junkies, at the same time as saying they can’t bear to be parted from us.

    • John

      Brilliant lol well said

  34. George Reid

    God preserve us from “Schrödinger’s Unionists”: simultaneously they complain about the Scots being subsidy junkies, at the same time as saying they can’t bear to be parted from us.

  35. Georgius Portugalus

    and not just Scotland but also North Ireland that should join Irlande and probably too Welsh.
    I would like to see UK reduced to England + Gibraltar (and that one will be there just as a souvenir of the British Empire)

  36. Joao Yohanan

    Was going for Scots, but then saw here someone writting Scotts and went with it.
    Mas é possivel que sim meu amigo, posso-me ter enganado.
    How do you manage in my native language, mate? :)

  37. Tiago Miranda

    Given the results of the EU Referendum on the Scottish territory, I would say Yes, and for four good reasons:
    – First, because the view of the Scottish is opposed to Wales and England, and thus should not be dragged when supposedly it is a state of it’s own. Just as the UK can leave the EU, Scotland should have the right to do so with the UK, for better or worse;
    – Second, because the Government in Westminster is completely disregarding the voice of the Scottish, taking action under their own matters for the Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty for the rest of the UK;
    – Third, because the strategy to “Remain” in the UK on the last referendum was to prevent the UK from leaving the EU, and thus Scotland would stay on both the EU and the UK, as they desired;
    – Fourth, because if the “Bremain” vote won, but England and Wales would still have a major “Brexit” majority, they would probably ask to disassemble the UK to be able to leave the EU anyway.

    • Tiago Miranda

      Stephen O’Brien Álvaro Curto Marta Adamska Rob Lovett

    • Colin Burgess

      The result in Scotland is a distorted one.
      1 less voted to stay in the EU than stay in the UK. 15% of the vote difference..400000 votes.
      2 there was no leave campaign in Scotland all parties supported stay….despite that as said the vote fell.
      3 sturgeon promised people if they voted differently to England it would trigger a new referendum

  38. Gordon

    This whole Brexit mess can be easily solved! England needs to declare its independence from the UK and that it is leaving the EU as well. The remaining parts of the UK then carry on as normal whilst England drifts off out into the mid Atlantic.

  39. Michelle Morgan

    Yes definitely hold another referendum, we are after all burden to England and subsidising junkies ?? so why do they fight so hard to keep us. Free Scotland! Saor Alba

  40. Dee Ferry

    No, we’ve already voted, and although I didn’t get what I personally wanted, we all voted and I stick with the decision, this is a democracy

    • David Torrance

      The terms under which we voted for NO have changed- we are now unexpectedly being pulled out of EU when at Indy Ref we were told a vote for NO ensured our continued membership. What has happened so far is a subversion of democracy. Who stands to lose from asking the people? The people? At least now we know what we would be voting on.

    • Colin Burgess

      David Torrance
      The result never changed.
      1 in 2014 it was made clear that exiting the UK would mean exiting the EU..the UK is the member state.
      2 Salmond refused to give the people of Scotland a vote on the EU.
      3 everyone of Westminster parties at one time or another put an EU referendum in their manifesto…the Tories who were in power had it in theirs.
      4 400000 more people voted to stay in the UK than for the EU…that despite that all parties supported staying in the EU in Scotland…further would the other Scottish parties have taken that stance if they knew it would trigger a new indy vote…of course not because they were promised at the start of the new Holyrood parliament…promised by Sturgeon that it was about governing Scotland not about independence.
      There has been no subversion of democracy..just results you don’t like.
      Brexit was tested in the courts
      The indy vote has not…has not been put to a general election either…as there is no significant change…out in 2016 is same as out in 2014

  41. Stuart Campbell

    We will not be dictated to and ignored anymore – independence till we get it enough enough no more Torie arrogance in Scotland

  42. Peter McLaughlin

    Oh dear Wendy Harris you are bitter and twisted. The Scots don’t actually care if the Westminster government driver you over a cliff, we just don’t want to be involved when that happens

  43. Peter

    The snp manifesto is clear. There’s a democratic mandate for another ref. The UN and the EU have numerous rules that the “uk” broke in the campaign in 2014. Scotland needs a fair referendum this time and in light of how the tories have handled brexit so far, we should be inundated with support from our EU neighbours.

  44. Pedro Mendes

    Definitely. The conditions have changed, so the result of the first referendum has become obsolete. They should have their right to say if they want to stay in the European Union and if it means leaving the UK, so be it.

    • Colin Burgess

      Salmond offered no EU vote in 2014.
      He was told plain and clear that exiting the UK exits the EU.
      The EU vote was in the Tory manifesto.
      The SNP did not stand aside in 2015 to allow a Labour win…preventing an EU vote..
      So they have acted to create a situation.
      Out in 2016 is the same as being out in 2014. Out is out…no change.
      The real issue is ignore 400000 votes that put the UK over the EU.33% of votes dismissed.

  45. Iain

    The position we now find ourselves in does not reflect what was vowed to us in the final days of the 2014 ‘no’ campaign. That was: respected partners that would help lead the Union, the only way to ensure EU membership, carbon capture plant, contracts for 17 frigates, renewable support, retained tax jobs, a federal UK, real devolved powers, etc. Each and every one a lie, with subsequent actions designed to weaken our position. When given a chance to at least show the slightest respect to the Scottish government’s Brexit paper, it was utterly, disrespectfully ignored and treated with contempt. Scotland is the only net exporting country in the Union. Simply we pay in more than we receive. Debt cannot simply be imposed from the parent nation. Also given the current UK debt levels, it’s laughable for them or the right wing press to suggest Scotland can’t look after itself. The EU cannot negotiate with us until we are divorced from the UK. Their position has changed completely towards us since 2014 as the have watched England lurch towards right wing politics. The position has now changed and we as a country did not vote for Brexit and we have a democratic mandate to decide whether or not to follow England into the abyss. 197,000 votes was all it would have taken to reverse the 2014 result. How many EU nationals live in Scotland…?

    • David Torrance

      Then we have nothing to fear from asking the people?

  46. Calum Simpson

    Aye. In 2 years time Scotland should choose.
    Not now, nobody is wanting one now, too many votes lol. 2019 or 2020 will be fine

  47. JSAgerry

    Of course there should be a referendum. We are now governed by a woman nobody voted for, heading a party nobody elected. Scotland has wealth and the people of Scotland should have a say in how it is distributed. It is not for politicians in London, some of whom have never set foot in Scotland, to determine how we spend our wealth. Balance of power is a positive thing, and we will still share much with England, remain (geographically) part of the UK and Europe, and have control over our own destiny. As an example, we can remove Trident, or receive money for keeping it. I would like to see it gone, but a decision taken by the people of Scotland may look upon it differently. What is important is that the decision is taken in Scotland, by the people affected by it. Other matters such as currency, fishing, health, infrastructure and education can be decided here. The SNP have their hands tied to some extent at the moment as they still rely on handouts from the UK government. Being independent means that we have control of our destiny, however it plays out, and that is something to strive towards.

    • Augusto Costa

      No ??? Self-determination inalienable right . .. look it up in the UN Charter!

    • Chris Wilson

      Are you scottish and do you reside in scotland? If not butt out nothing to do with you

    • Jake Cleland

      Chris Wilson you might have missed some unintended irony in your statement there…

  48. Alan Stewart

    Yes. As soon as possible. Of course Scotland should be Independent!

  49. Giampiero

    Scotland is getting independence like it or not. In few years time there will be a fully independent Scotland member of the EEA on its way to become full member of the EU. There will also be a unified Ireland.

  50. David Torrance

    In light of Brexit- yes- after all, it is a substantial ‘material change’ to the terms of the first Indy Ref. Ask the people- thats democracy.

  51. Colin

    Scotland has voted to remain in two Unions but because the goalposts have been moved, we can only stay in one. It is therefore our right to decide which of the two we will benefit most from, and for me personally, it’s quite clear that even with some of the existing controls in place from Brussels, being an independent country will afford us much greater control over our country than we have at present, within the UK. We will also have a much better status as a separate country, within the EU, than we do presently within the UK, where so many decisions are made on our behalf by a Westminster Parliament, which will always look after the interests of English constituencies first because they are the majority. Arguments on the economy, merely parrot the data produced by the Treasury on behalf of the Establishment. The truth is there are no real accurate figures on the economy in Scotland……..because someone at the Treasury decided about twenty years ago, it wasn’t important enough to warrant them. All the figures are derived from estimates and surveys, extrapolating numbers which aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. Roll on Independence and we can take responsibility for ourselves……good and bad…..

  52. Hilary Finch

    The only hope for Scotland’s future is to be independent. The alternative is to be at the mercy – ignored and exploited – of an increasingly right wing and xenophobic Westminster government. The current system does NOT work in our favour. We’ve seen that in the way our 56 SNP MPs are treated. Furthermore, if the Labour Party in Scotland ever wish to return to power, it can only be in an independent Scotland.

  53. Helen Sammels

    We voted as part of UK not Scotland ,Sturgeon has her own agenda right now none of it makes sense,over a third of SNP voters voted to leave the EU I’m one I will ever vote SNP again.

  54. Helen Sammels

    We voted as part of UK not Scotland ,Sturgeon has her own agenda right now none of it makes sense,over a third of SNP voters voted to leave the EU I’m one I will never vote SNP again.

    • Louise Biggerstaff

      Why? Why are you so offended by the SNP fighting for your rights? Who is it you see as our best option?

    • Helen Sammels

      She’s not fighting for my rights and she does not speak for me,independence is one thing but she wants us ruled by Brussels that’s not independence,look around you under SNP everything is failing,the economy,the Nhs,our children’s education we just lost fourteen million of our own money from the EU with snp incompetence.

  55. Tjitze de Jong

    yes please, independence, then I’ll be safe living here in Scotland as Dutch citizen after 27 years

  56. Barbara Inch

    if you cant remain in the uk you can blame the eu. not the prime minister. she said at the beginning, she wanted the eu to agree. it is they who are holding this up. the snp cannot help you

  57. Liri Kodhelaj

    If UK holds a second referendum on EU membership, then is no need for a second referendum in Scotland.

    • Cathy Linney

      Oh YES there is! I want Independence above all!

    • Cliff Wilson

      Why would the UK do that? The EU have tried to frighten them off submitting Article 50 but unlike many Countries in the EU, we don’t have enough referenda until we get the politicians desired answer.

  58. Alex Small

    If Scotland are such a drain on th UK why do they want to hang on to us……because we are a rich country. The sooner we get out the union the better. If you mention debt, Scotland are not allowed to borrow money so have no debt. The £15bn figure being bandied around would be a share of the national debt which we are not obliged to pay. But we probably will do then we will attain a percentage of th UK assets. This is all common knowledge but unionists do prefer to ignore the truth.

    • Paul X

      Maybe they “want to hang onto us” because the 300 year old union has been the most successful in history and there is no logical or (factually proven) financial reason to break it up apart from a minority who continually fuel an anti-UK sentiment

  59. Andy Hood

    Barbara Inch I think you have your facts wrong! It is the UK governments stance not that of the EU that is potentially affecting the rights of Europeans living in the UK.

  60. Marco Peel

    Negotiations for the conditions of Brexit haven’t even started yet, and a lot can happen in two years. The EU could reform and the UK could even reconsider – why not? Access to the single market may end up costing as much or more as full EU membership. Seems a bit early for any kind of new referendum on the subject.

  61. Thomas Beavitt

    The question, which I answered in the affirmative, concerned whether Scotland should have another independence referendum, given that Brexit represents significantly changed circumstances. The question as to whether Scotland should seek to join the EU, and if so, on what terms, comes later.

  62. David Lucas

    Every time Scotland votes SNP or any other independence party into power, it has the democratic mandate to hold an IndyRef, so the answer is obvious, yes

  63. George Ewing

    No the SNP don’t even know what money were
    Going to use Maybe the Oor Wullie dinar

  64. George Ewing

    No the SNP don’t even know what money were
    Going to use Maybe the Oor Wullie dinar

  65. George Ewing

    No the SNP don’t even know what money were
    Going to use Maybe the Oor Wullie dinar

  66. Enric Mestres Girbal

    No, unless they tell the truth to the scotish people….if they get indepencence Scotland would be OUT og GB and of EU.

  67. June Allison

    Remember this? Alex Salmond obviously doesn’t!
    Alex Salmond on Referendums, January 1992: “With regards to referendums, you have got to learn to accept a democratic result. There are very few countries in the world that, having had a referendum, do not go by the majority that took place in that vote.”

  68. Robin James Dalton

    A Sturgeon is also a fish, found mostly in the waters around Russia. That sells its baby’s. for top $ . Or sounds like anyway . Dismiss the cynic perhaps. In favor of a hope for better future?

  69. Phil Walker

    There is so much ignorance and stupidity in these comments…I don’t even know where to begin.

    Firstly, there is NO QUEUE to join the EU. No. Queue. It doesn’t exist. It’s a unionist myth. Joining the EU does not proceed on a first come first served basis. Pretending it does just shows how ignorant you are of how the EU works. If you believe the tired unionist trope “you’d be at the back of the queue to get into the EU”, you are delusional.

    Secondly, the “you don’t meet the criteria because of your deficit” line is total bull. That criteria is for joining the Euro, not the EU. We have no intention of joining the Euro at this time, and couldn’t even if we wanted to.

    “How would you pay for X, Y and Z?” The same bloody way every other country in the world pays for things. You know, like Denmark and Ireland do. Two similar countries in terms of geography and population, only with nothing in the way of natural resources compared to Scotland. Do you seriously expect people to believe that Scotland is some kind of uniquely impoverished third world country that is incapable of funding it’s own services? You sound like swivel-eyed lunatics when you come out with stuff like that.

    • Paul X

      The reference to a queue has come from officials within the EU (Jacqueline Minor) and ministers from other countries (Alfonso Dastis) and it is delusional to believe it is part of some great unionist plot

      Regards finance….From the EU official website under “Membership Criteria”

      (Countries wishing to join need to have) the ability to take on and implement effectively the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

      And paying for things, well the jury is out on that, Barnett formula, oil revenues etc

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14701901.UK_subsidy_to_Scotland_soars_after_oil_price_slump/

      Scotland may survive independence but there is no logical reason to believe it will become any more prosperous, just higher taxed

    • Cliff Wilson

      Seriously, I don’t think that Scotland could possibly maintain their present standard of living without some form of subsidy or help.Whilst much rubbish is spoken on the subject, by the time The rest of the UK take back their Tax offices and other Jobs exported to Scotland to help the ungrateful recipients, a whole new industry will be needed. I can’t see an upkeep in kilt wearing closing the gap at all.

  70. Tjitze de Jong

    As bargaining chip of the conservative majority government in EU negotiations, Kevin, EU citizens are at the moment not safe to be able to remain in UK.

  71. Marc Murph Murphy

    Why are we even discussing this, we had one they failed, the majority (that’s more people than not) don’t want another one, time this wee cow and her party of started doing their jobs and stopped blaming their incompetence on the sun, moon or whatever it is this week

  72. Marc Murph Murphy

    Why are we even discussing this, we had one they failed, the majority (that’s more people than not) don’t want another one, time this wee cow and her party of started doing their jobs and stopped blaming their incompetence on the sun, moon or whatever it is this week

  73. Marc Murph Murphy

    Why are we even discussing this, we had one they failed, the majority (that’s more people than not) don’t want another one, time this wee cow and her party of started doing their jobs and stopped blaming their incompetence on the sun, moon or whatever it is this week

  74. Chris Anderson

    Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

  75. Muriel O'Gorman

    No people are going of SNP tell them when they get Independence benefits will stop lol soon change their minds.

  76. John Whitfield

    Ok but where do we stop when time after time the SNP keep getting defeated they lost last indy reff losing leaving EU will lose next Indy Reff ( if it ever happens ) enough is enough at sometime

  77. Edward Kublin

    The Poison Dwarf will never hold another Referendum because as she has stated only when she knows that the majority of the Scottish people want independence , and that will be never.

  78. June Mcallister

    Edward correct she held a survey last year to engage with the Scottish electorate to see if there was a change in opinion we are still waiting on the result do they know something we don’t

  79. David Rosser Owen

    No. We had a referendum, and by a significant margin our choice was to remain a part of the United Kingdom.

  80. eusebio manuel vestias pecurto vestias

    I support second referendum of Scotland

  81. Jay Tee

    Yes. I would like to see independence for scotland, Wales, northern Ireland and even the north of England!

  82. Paul X

    There’s a lot of talk about which union Scotland should be in but no-one has suggested how you get from one to the other …..there are only three possibilities

    An independent Scotland remains in the UK post Brexit and remains part of the UK until the EU accepts them as a member, then they “officially” depart the UK …this option is unlikely to be accepted by the rest of the UK

    An Independent Scotland never actually leaves the EU when the UK does…unfortunately this would mean the EU going totally against it’s own policies and criteria for accepting new countries and the chances of this getting agreement of all 27 is probably nil

    An independent Scotland leaves the UK and survives totally under it’s own currency, trading arrangements, pension provison, armed forces, etc etc until it meets the criteria for joining the EU…….god help us all if it comes to this one

  83. sandra parker

    Scotland needs to hold a referendum before the end of Brexit or there will never independence because I am 100% sure the Scottish parliament will be disbanded immediately Brexit is through

    • Alison B

      I agree with you there, Sandra, that’s what’ll happen. I positively dread Scotland not getting Independence this time. We’ll be screwed to the wall by that den of corruption in Westminster

  84. Vincent Kleijn

    if the Scottish people want so then let it be. Says enough that Ms. May doesn’t want to go along with it as she already knows the outcome of such a referendum…

    • Christopher Kealy

      Another referendum would split the SNP, and would return a bigger No vote than the first one did.

  85. catherine benning

    |I think the answer to this dilemma has to be a referendum for England on whether they want Scotland to remain as part of the UK. That should set the cat amongst the pigeons. And when the vote is over, the Scots can then ask Europe to take them in and they can then remain under the rule of that bunch of undemocratic drunks.

    Come to think of it, may suit them down to the ground. They will then be treated like and end up the way Greece has.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwvGinQpjQ0

  86. Maia Alexandrova

    The English should imagine how they would feel, if EU did not allow them to leave. Would they like it? I don’t think so. Yet, this is exactly what they are doing to Scotland. It is obvious they have not learned the lesson “don’t do to others what you do not want to be done to you.” But eventually they will learn it, willingly or unwillingly.

    • Coln

      No one is saying that Scotland cannot leave, all that is being said is that now is not the time for another referendum .. IMO Scotland are more than welcome to leave.

    • catherine benning

      @ Maia Alexandrova

      The English were open enough to give Scotland a referendum on whether they wanted to remain part of the UK or leave a couple of years ago. The Scots, at the time, told us all it was a once in a lifetime decision.

      Are you aware that Scotland has a population of only 5.3 million. The UK has a population, in total, of more than 65 million and said to be closer to 70 million. So, their vote in respect of remaining in the EU at that referendum last year was a tiny fraction of the total.

      Before the IN/OUT referendum on EU participation was taken the Scots were informed, repeatedly, what it would mean to them if the rest of the UK voted to leave the EU against their will. If they found after it they wanted to remain. Even I wrote on this website that if they didn’t want to be ruled by Westminster and the decisions of the rest of the UK citizens, then they should vote for Independence. They chose to stay united as part of the UK. I even thought the vote was rigged as it made no sense to remain in the UK if they really wanted to be ruled by the EU directly.

      http://www.scotland.org/about-scotland/facts-about-scotland/population-of-scotland

      How many times does Switzerland ask their people in a referendum to vote on a particular issue? Would it be every two years? I don’t think so. When was the last time the Swiss were asked, in a binding referendum, if they wanted to remain part of the EU or be out of it?

      The UK and its Parliament are not forcing Scotland to remain as part of it. In fact I believe that it is time the rest of the UK had a referendum on whether we want Scotland to remain part of our United Kingdom because the Scots cost us a great deal more financially than we receive from them in return. After all, it is only fair we should have equal opportunity to decide what is good for our nation as a whole. They already had their chance.

      A couple of years ago, the Institute of Fiscal Studies wrote Scotland spent £62 billion and raised £45 billion. Thereby receiving an annual subsidy from the rest of us UK citizens of at least £17 billion.

      Read this old article, it may give you some clarity.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2424713/Scots-MUST-vote-independence-Itll-save-rest-fortune-says-SIMON-HEFFER.html

    • Cliff Wilson

      The ‘English’ are just one of 4 countries in the United Kingdom. The UK Government makes the decisions and Scotland is already over represented in the UK Govt with far more MP’s per head than England and possibly the other countries. No-one has said Scotland cant have another referendum. Although the UK Parliament has the ultimate authority for it. Your comment above illustrates no knowledge of the subject you are trying to discuss I am afraid.

  87. Ton Boixadors

    Yes! Every nation in Europe has the right to choose its future. Not one time but any number of times they wish. In the case of Scotland, the conditions from the last referendum have changed completely. Go for it, Scotland! Let’s make a better Europe giving the voice to every nation.

    • Paul X

      So how many other EU countries are going to be given the opportunity to choose their future?

  88. Coln

    Perhaps the rUK should have a referendum on whether we want Scotland to remain part of the UK considering the amount of whinging they have done I say let them have the referendum and hopefully they’ll leave.

    The UK would lose 32% of it’s land, but only 8% of its population. Scotland contributes some £106.3bn of goods and services in “Gross Value Added” (GVA) – the key measure by which the Office for National Statistics records regional economic output in the UK. The UK’s total GVA, which was some £1,383bn in 2012, according to ONS figures. The effect of Scotland – and its population – leaving the UK would be a small increase in GDP per head of some £117.
    The value of Scotland’s exports to the rest of the world, excluding that to other UK nations, accounted for some 7% of the UK total in 2012.

    The average life expectancy in the rUK would go up from 78.7 to 79.1 for men and 82.6 to 82.9 for women.

    Scotland also has the largest deficit of any EU country, it’s GDP growth is behind the rUK and according to the SNP’s own figures Scottish revenues amounted to £10,000 per capita while spending was equal to £12,800 (a deficit of £1,400 a head) and while most (if not all countries) run with a deficit, it isn’t one of 10% which is what Scotland currently has.

    Someone mentioned education in Scotland, sadly The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) for 2015 found Scotland has tumbled down league tables for maths, reading and science when compared to 34 other developed countries and the UK’s three other home nations .. not exactly something that allows for the crowing of describing it’s education system as “world-leading”.

    As to “fast tracking” into the EU, Jacqueline Minor, the European commission’s head of representation in the UK has stated, yet again, “The position in Scotland hasn’t changed,” Minor said. There is a clear process for any applicant country under article 49 of the European treaties. “That would also apply to Scotland. If Scotland became an independent country I think article 49 is the normal starting point.” this along with both Herman Van Rompuy, and José Manuel Barroso, as saying that a country declaring independence from a member state would become a “third country” to which the treaties don’t apply and which is also the most recent position of the EU Commission ( http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf )

  89. Christopher Kealy

    The Scots voted NO to independence in September 2014 – after more than two years of mature debate on the subject. The SNP might need a second referendum, but the people of Scotland do not. The SNP need to govern Scotland within the laws given to them by Westminster, and stop banging on about another referendum.

    • Vincent Kleijn

      so the Scottish people who voted NO against Brexit which is the biggest majority shouldn’t have a voice? Real democatic I would say :-( I feel sorry for the Scottish people. They always fought brave against the English and I hope that they will manage to do so now too!

    • Paul X

      But the same Scottish people had previously voted to remain as part of the UK, and they were then part of a UK which then voted to leave the EU.
      You cannot expect to vote to stay in a union but then suddenly want to change your mind when you disagree with a decision that union makes

  90. Rob mills

    The USA tried it and ended in civil war.

  91. Rod Mappin

    This time YES. The final straw was England dragging Scotland towards the abyss. Nationalist no, but now 100% for independence and will fight for it. Anyone who thinks there will be anything but right wing governments in the UK over the next 20 + years is fooling themselves. The only way Scotland has a chance of political change and true democratic representation is through independence. Once independent the fascists/ xenophobes/ retrogrades (lets not fool ourselves, Scotland is full of them and they vote against independence in the great majority) would be able to form their own Scottish Parties along with the new left. Scotland could be a true democratic, republican country within Europe, economically and socially strong.

    • Paul X

      There certainly would be political change after independence but it’s hard to see how it is going to be any better.
      The only ones who will benefit from this change are the politicians themselves, the SNP mantra of “taking back power from Westminster” and “governing in the interest of the people of Scotland” is hollow rhetoric designed to sway those of the Braveheart mentality
      To win the independence argument (with those who don’t have an inbred hatred of Westminster and all things Tory) the SNP needs to start coming out with hard facts of exactly what they plan to do (and how to pay for it) to make things better for everybody in Scotland, that they are currently prevented from doing by UK government

    • Cliff Wilson

      It would be good to buy a few pounds worth of the stuff you are taking! However, I prefer to keep my feet on the ground. The impoverished Scotland would struggle to do anything and find the Socialist state does not work. Most of us know that but a lot of people out there in the wilds of Scotland do not seem to understand that Utopia is not a Scottish City.

  92. Cliff Wilson

    The Normal way that the EU works is to refuse to accept a result and keep piling on the pressure until the population gives in to the latest bribes or threats. Scotland is very Pro EU so they will probably want to do the same.

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