ME&EU_featured_3_brexitUPDATE 16/06/2017: Five months on and things are even less clear than they were at the start of the year. Brexit talks are due to start in a matter of days, and the British government has yet to submit papers detailing its opening position to the EU negotiating team. The UK government department in charge of leading talks is reportedly in chaos, with ministers resigning or being sacked. If Theresa May had a plan, it seems to be unravelling rapidly.

Meanwhile, the European Council has published detailed guidelines for the Brexit negotiations. The EU Commission’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has threatened to delay talks by a year if the UK doesn’t agree to his strict timetable. The most complicated negotiations in Britain’s post-war history risk turning into a massive shambles. The EU has a plan for Brexit. Given the chaos across the channel, does it need a new one? Should it take a more lenient approach, and give the UK more time to sort itself out? Let us know what you think!

ORIGINAL 16/01/2017: British Prime Minister Theresa May has announced her key objectives during the upcoming Brexit negotiations. May has long insisted she will not provide a “running commentary” of the negotiations, but the opposition Labour party had argued that not at least outlining the government’s broad strategy was undemocratic. The government is expected to publish a more detailed plan early in 2017 (with the parliamentary select committee on Brexit calling for the plan to be released by mid-February at the latest).

Which is all very well for Britain… but what about the rest of Europe? Should the EU likewise publish its negotiation plan, to be debated in the European Parliament (maybe even in national parliaments)? What do continental Europeans want the relationship between the UK and the EU to look like after Brexit?

What do our readers think? We had a comment sent in from Sjoerd on our ‘Suggest a Debate’ page, wondering where the post-Brexit plan is from the European Union, given that the UK is such a large market for EU goods and services.

What should be Europe’s post-Brexit plan? We asked Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) from all sides of the political spectrum to stake out their positions on this question, and it’s up to YOU to vote for the policies you favour. See what the different MEPs have to say, then vote at the bottom of this debate for the one you most agree with! Take part in the vote below and tell us who you support in the European Parliament!

Radical Left
Fabio de Masi (GUE/NGL), Member of the European Parliament:

Greens
Benedek Javor (Group of the Greens), Member of the European Parliament:

Liberal Democrats
Sylvie Goulard (ALDE), Member of the European Parliament:

Sylvie GOULARD - 8th Parliamentary termBrexit does not change the basic rationale of the EU project: to bring peace and collective prosperity. Let us deliver on the very relevant objectives set out in Article 3 of the Treaty on the European Union. It is even more important now to do everything we can to have quick results. For the European institutions, this means making the system work (such as a real internal market), as well as quicker and more decisive legislation. On a national level, governments need to stop blaming each other, or the EU institutions. Citizens need to accept that our world is changing and that some reforms are necessary which in the end will be good for all of us.

Centre Right
David McAllister (EPP), Member of the European Parliament:

Conservatives
Sander Loones (ECR), Member of the European Parliament:

Eurosceptics

Ignazio Corrao (EFDD), Member of the European Parliament:

Curious to know more about Europe after Brexit? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).3-ME&EU-postbrexit

IMAGE CREDIT: CC / Flickr – Rebecca Harms


Who do YOU agree with on this issue?

VOTE!

Results for this issue

See the overall results

143 comments Post a commentcomment


  1. Petar Shumanov

    Plan in which direction:
    1. EU to GB: like the GB’s one, just wanting more and more blessings!
    2. EU to EU: As quick as possible filling the gaps from GB’s leaving, in this order, concentration of finances in developed finance centers (for example) Frankfurt, Rotterdam, Rome etc. . Think the finance services was the main job of the Brits in the Union, but acting the same way with the other tasks given to them earlier.
    3. EU to the World: Never excusing, mentioning or regretting for losing the Brits officially, first is their mistake and second the Union don’t really need douchebags to be into it. Official statement should sound like “We stay friends and in close cooperation readiness, we have to, because they lost themselves in a world of changes, where they lost the tempo of holding on with the true engines of the Union.”

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Petar Shumanov
      1…The main reason that ‘in your eyes’ the UK wants ‘more and more blessings’ is that when the EU was effectively founded France twice prevented the UK from joining – thus the rules for the EU were constructed to favour the founding EU nations often (because of the French) at the expense of the UK.
      2…Even the Germans have stated that it will take decades for Frankfurt or Paris to rival London in terms of a financial hub. Additionally, Barnier is worried by the highly negative effects on the rump-EU of possibly isolating London from EU markets.
      3…What you propose – ‘control of information’ is something that Nazi/Stasi/Communist elites are very familiar with.

    • David Alan Roden

      sour grapes or what? Typical eu reaction – lie, cheat, subvert

    • Petar Shumanov

      hahaha, you wish to be so, but nahh, that’s why i started with EU to GB: nothing less what GB asks for! You are still so arrogant like a century ago…

    • Paul X

      Arrogance is thinking the problems that led to Brexit lay in the UK rather than the EU and that once the UK leaves the EU will be all “fixed”….dream on laddie

    • Petar Shumanov

      Ivan Burrows … will never accept your point of view, … strengthened by an article in GB’s newspaper… come on! About the reality…
      You made the hard path the last years and now close to the target, United Europe you leave, simply why? History teaches us that this process was done centuries ago in China and India for example… Europe has the unique chance of making it peacefully! United we will become stronger and can go further, can compare and react as a “super power”… not the EU, but UK will burn down and fall over without the rest of Europe. And one personal question, when i dare, do you really think we are so different?… As far as i know your and my capitals were founded by the same guys, the Romans.

    • Paul X

      @Petar Shumanov
      …and many people throughout Europe will never accept your point of view.
      Your vision of the EU is exactly what is wrong with the whole project, it has never been about what is best for the people of Europe, it is all about a political elite who want to create a “super power” (your words) which will enable them to flex their muscles on the world stage….you are welcome to it

    • Jokera Jokerov

      Man, you cannot make a new whore house with the old girls, you know. And how can one name twats like Junker, Schulz or Tusk or Verhoofstadt other than the old girls? ;)

  2. Любомир Иванчев

    Brexit is a strong sign that a most of Europeans are against the current policies and direction the EU has taken. People are seeing how multiculturalism is failing, how the current methods of integration of foreigners are failing and how the EU government is impotent in protecting it’s own citizens because of its extreme leftist and liberal policies and views. People are seeing their governments care about and protect the rights of criminals more than they defend the rights of the criminals’ victims. They are seeing how their local economies are having trouble because of over-regulation and lobbyism in the EU Parliament. People feel the need to have a strong sense of justice and security.
    And all of this can be fixed only by a more firm and well planned consolidation of EU member-states – their values, their laws, their economies and their defense.

    • EU reform- proactive

      Lubomir Ivanchev- very good, I’ll take it, your “fix” means a devolution of power?

      Example: drastically reduce the EU to a “think tank” & “consultant” for its 27 members, while returning many lost competences to members. “Cherry pick”- as my “island friend Tarquin” likes to say.

      Or- consider to appoint a totally restructured EU as the think tank (only professionals welcome) of the CoE (49). The EU mainly acts as an agent for its many visible & hidden think tanks it’s using and paying for. Will save some money too- less pomp, pretence & more uniting!

    • Michael Holz

      “Brexit is a strong sign that a most of Europeans are against the current policies and direction the EU has taken.”

      Actually, Brexit is a sign that a close majority of the British people that were allowed to vote are against the current policies and direction the EU has taken. Please don’t claim more things than your example is able to yield. On the contrary, polls of Eurobarometer showed rising advocacy in all European member states after the Brexit vote.

      Don’t forget that it is the European Council consisting of the Heads of Goverment from the nation states, that is de factor ruling and deciding on EU policies. So if we want to blame someone, we have to blame our national governments, not the EU parliament.

    • Любомир Иванчев

      An argument for my statement which I didn’t mention is that there are polls in other countries, like the Netherlands and Belgium for example, which show similar statistics like the Brexit result. So this vote is not isolated in the UK, there are other countries in the EU that face the same discussion and situation. Sorry for not mentioning this and clarifying.

    • Tina Lythe

      Brexit is a strong sign some people should never be allowed too vote ever Ie quitters

    • EU reform- proactive

      Generally, can one expect or seriously believe that by meeting only 4x per year (EC) a huge block like the EU can be guided, directed and receive considered & mature policy advice?

      “Head of governments” or “Prime Ministers” have a full time job at home to remain relevant to their political parties & voters. Who does the preparatory thinking? Not them (alone)! Sinister forces?

      On the global stage the EU has no real standing- lost- with its President Donald Tusk. Since 1974 it sits as (special) observer at the gate of the UN and “begs” to be admitted- having no voting rights. It competes directly with some permanent EU-UN members or those who wish to become permanent in future. A great dilemma!

    • Wendy Harris

      Brexit is a sign that once again the British have decided not be crushed under the heel of Germany. We do not share Merkel’s dream for Eurabia and do not wish to be part of it. What the rest of you do is up to you as we shall only be liberating ourselves this time.

  3. Ivan Burrows

    .

    It doesn’t matter what people think it should be simply because Brussels has no interest in the wishes of the people.

    Last week Brussels decided there will be 4 new taxes for every EU citizen, whether you like it or not you will pay it.

    The goal of the EU is to unite you all under one flag, one anthem, one language, one currency and you will pay for the privilege.

    Great Britain is the first to leave, it will not be the last.

    • Michael Holz

      “The goal of the EU is to unite you all under one flag, one anthem, one language, one currency and you will pay for the privilege.”

      Why exactly is that a bad thing? Great Britain has done the same, the US has done the same, India has done the same, Germany has done the same, Spain has done the same, each of them at different points in history. The world continues to turn, it does not stop in the present.

    • Michael Holz

      “It doesn’t matter what people think it should be simply because Brussels has no interest in the wishes of the people.”

      Which institution? Parliament, Council or Commisson? It is the Council which defacto decides on EU policies. And the council is comprised of the Heads of Government of the Nation States. So if you are unhappy with EU policy, you have to blame your respective national government.

    • Ivan Burrows

      Michael Holz

      Have you not noticed the Brussels created migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis and the misery heaped onto millions of people across the EU ?.

      But then ‘Europeans’ have a history of stupid ideas. Fascism, Nazism, Communism & now Europeanism, only the colour of your flag changes.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Michael Holz
      I thought imperialism was a bad thing?

    • Michael Holz

      Migrant crises are created by war and socioeconomic inequality, not by “Brussels”.

      Euro/Banking crisis is created by shade financial products and irresponsible banking schemes, not “Brussels”.

      Democratic deficit within EU is created by national leaders and governments (Council) that are unwilling to push forward democratic reforms within the EU.

      Your a fighting against a windmill, a diffuse and vaguely defined opponent called “Brussels”. But you fail to see the real roots of the very problems you rightfully mentioned.

    • Ivan Burrows

      Michael Holz

      The root cause of all the EU’s problems are the Euro and Schengen, both created in Brussels not the member states in an attempt to create ever closer union, the problem with your dogma is the peoples of the EU do not want ever closer union.

      You live in a fantasy world if you think National leaders are going to sign up to more EU when their voters do not. want it.

      Who do you think will leave next, the French or the Dutch ?

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/10/netherlands-geert-wilders-politics-far-right

    • Ander Anderson

      Christana Keir No other country wants to leave the EU

    • Duncan

      No, just under half of some of them according to the information provided want to leave, just over half of the UK wanted to leave it, but the polls suggested it was just under half. For crying out loud not even France and Germany can muster 70% approval ratings for the EU. What does that tell you?

    • David Alan Roden

      blinkers on – full speed ahead to disaster –

  4. Jason Picci

    Paul Belien, a Flemish writer and commentator, believes that the hostility many Britons feel to the EU “project” is also the key to understanding why so many of his Dutch-speaking countrymen want an independent Flanders and an end to Belgium.
    “For me, the Belgian and EU flags are basically the same. They are a denial of identity,” he explains. “As a Fleming I feel the same when I see the Belgian flag as a British Eurosceptic must seeing the EU flag.”

    Like the EU, Belgium is an artificial creation. Geographically straddling the cultural boundary between Germanic and Latin Europe, Belgium’s political fault lines are linguistic and follow the forced marriage of Dutch-speaking Flanders in the north and the Francophone southern region of Wallonia.

    Belgium came into being in 1830, supported by great powers such as Great Britain, after a Brussels uprising by French-speaking Walloons angry at their treatment by the Dutch-dominated United Kingdom of the Netherlands.

    • Ander Anderson

      Jason Picci What a load of BS because the Belgian Flag has red black and Yellow and it looks nothing like the EU flag because the EU flag is blue with 12 stars on it and the Common Market started in 1957 when West Germany,France,Italy Belgium Luxemborg and the Netherlands and since when are the Netherlands forcing you to anything that you don;t want to do ?

    • Jason Picci

      Tell Paul Belien. Or Napoleon! 🤠

  5. Andrew Potts

    The EU leadership should resign as Brexit is a clear failure of policy and direction. The fact there has been no calls for them to go shows a “echo chamber ” quality to The EU and the Media.

    • Michael Holz

      There is only one responsible for Brexit, the sovereign that conducted the referendum. Namely, the British people. Why should EU leadership resign now?

    • Paul X

      Yes, ultimately the British people were responsible for Brexit…..but the reasons people voted the way they did are 100% the responsibility of the EU….. and if they continue on in the same blinkered, arrogant fashion believing they can do no wrong, then they are going to get a shock every time people are given the democratic opportunity to express an opinion

      You will find even the most ardent Europhiles admit the EU isn’t perfect, the problem is no-one seems interested or capable of changing anything, Brussels is just one big Ostrich farm with everyone’s head in the sand hoping things will eventually sort themselves out

  6. Ludovic Bouvier

    I don’t wonder that UK voted Brexit even if it was a close referendum, but british politics shouldn’t wonder after telling their people EU is bullshit since they first entered EU… If you keep manipulating masses, don’t wonder about the outcome, you reap what you sow.

  7. Flavien Iszurin

    To let Nations be what they want to be. Every Nation has a different history, a different sensibility, a different vision of the World, and the same right to pursue its own path to development as defined by the UN charter of 1945.

  8. Franco Iadarola

    Is she just peparing? Isn’t come the time to leave, yet? Go away Britain, go away, EU will survive better without you!

    • Paul X

      Survive maybe…but survive better?……dream on, unless the rest of you are prepared to start paying in a lot more

  9. Julia Hadjikyriacou

    The UK is following the US model of Privatisation of public services, Corporatocracy & Plutocracy paid for and at the expense of the people. I hope the EU doesn’t also follow that path and creates a more social EU. For example this discussion in the EU on the Universal income is a good start. Free education and free healthcare for all EU citizens should be next. A balance is required between business profits and a good standard of living for the people. They both need eachother to survive and grow.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Julia Hadjikyriacou
      “I hope the EU doesn’t also follow that path…” that ship has already sailed.

  10. Julia Hadjikyriacou

    The UK is following the US model of Privatisation of public services, Corporatocracy & Plutocracy paid for and at the expense of the people. I hope the EU doesn’t also follow that path and creates a more social EU. For example this discussion in the EU on the Universal income is a good start. Free education and free healthcare for all EU citizens should be next. A balance is required between business profits and a good standard of living for the people. They both need eachother to survive and grow.

  11. EU reform- proactive

    Is the EU authority & their propaganda channel(s) fudging this issue for its believers? Another fake question?

    · Fake Q: “What should be Europe’s post-Brexit plan”?
    · A: What should be “EU’s” post-Brexit plan”?

    Correction please, but the EU (as many good institutions it may have) has no mandate to speak or pretend to speak on behalf of EUROPE or the CoE.

    After loosing GB as major contributor, the EU has to embark on an unavoidable EU budget cut- or ask the ECB magicians to print more money to indebt the youth even more. Soon EU presidents & all EU officials have to pull matches to decide who is to become redundant & where to reduce costs.

    A serious conference to discuss a major restructure of the EU will become unavoidable! Doctors’ prescribed medicine is “reverse”: devolution of power, instead reckless evolution of greedy power. Reform: leaner, less meaner!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @EU Reform- Proactive
      Gut point mein freund.

      When the UK leaves the EU the EU civil service will have to shrink by c10-c15%.

      I wonder if such an eventuality will ever happen given the EU’s horrendous track record of mismanagement.

  12. Paolo Ortenzi

    A quick first fix for the dissolving UE (Brexit is only the start of the process) is STOPPING to have double standards: one for Germany and another for al the other 25 countries. Nobody want to be in a club ruled only by one of it’s members.

    • Michael Holz

      You are welcome to take a look at federalist movements that aim to transform the European Union into a federal state. That will prevent imbalance between member states by setting common and mandatory rules, where necessary. As long as the head of governments rule the EU via the European Council, the strongest nation will be the ruler. That is what happens if you rule via a confederation of independent nation states.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      Take a look on how EU was dealing with VW and now is dealing FCA on the same issue. Double standards. As Italian I am sick and tired. And I would be the same if I’d be French or Spanish or Danish. Federation? No way. Maybe (and I say MAYBE) a Confederation, on Swiss model.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      EU is NOT a confederation, Michael. No way. EU is NOTHING but not elected bureocrats ruling our lives. It’s the IV Reich.

    • Ria Fa

      Paolo Ortenzi And Italy is a failed state ruled by the Mafia, curruption and family ties. I live there, so I know about it. So easy to blame others, when one is not able to do your clean up one’s own doorstep. Corruption, burocracy, inefficency, anarchy, individualism, doing nothing by the rule, not paying taxes, are all “fatti in casa”. So stop blaming those that try to have their country in order.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Paolo Ortenzi
      So true!

      Even Donald Trump described the EU as a ‘German vehicle’.

    • Michael Holz

      Paolo Ortenzi EU is a confederation. And confusingly as it might be, Switzerland is NOT a confederation as their name might indicate. Please read the definitions of federations and confederations.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      Michael Holz EU is only a geographic expression. Maybe economic. But standing the actual policies, is doomed to dissolution, because it is turning into tyranny.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      Ria Fa you have no other arguments than to insult my country? I know perfect the problems inside Italy. That’s why I regard EU as a further restriction of my FREEDOM. EU is worste than mafia: it’s Neue Ordnung.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      Wlodzimierz Gontarz care about your antisemitic Poland.

    • Davide Galeotti

      If EU is a confederation, i am Napoleon

    • Davide Galeotti

      If you want to dominate my country, first you have to shoot me.
      But i think , first , you have to avoid MY bullets

    • EU reform- proactive

      @ Michael Holz, Good try- but disallowed!!
      More fake news spread by sworn “Euro unionists” = “Europhiles”:

      Sorry, but the EU is & remains simply a “UNION”! Probably a wannabe mixture of federalists, confederates, supranationalists, futurists, +++ nobody really knows.

      A political embryo not yet born where their parents struggle and fight over their future offspring’s name. Academia calls it a “supranational federal polity”. I call it a concept- but am only a bystander not a parent! Have some fun & enjoy the “spice”:

      “Ha ha ha ha ha
      Yo, I’ll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
      So tell me what you want, what you really, really want
      I’ll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
      So tell me what you want, what you really, really want
      I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha)
      I wanna really, really, really wanna zigazig ah”

  13. Duncan

    It’s really sad that this question is being asked. If only the EU had asked the question “what can we do to make the EU work better for it’s citizenry” some time ago then we might not have gotten to this state of affairs. My hopes for the EU after Brexit are that the EU management stop being so arrogant and start to ask for approval of it’s policies rather than presume it deserves approval. If they cannot or will not start working for the democratic will of it’s peoples then I’d like to see it desolved before dystopia becomes an irreversible truth.

  14. Ivan Burrows

    Michael Holz

    Have you not noticed the Brussels created migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis and the misery heaped onto millions of people across the EU ?.

    But then ‘Europeans’ have a history of stupid ideas. Fascism, Nazism, Communism & now Europeanism, only the colour of your flag changes.

  15. Wlodzimierz Gontarz

    EU problem is less and less people working to sustain more and more non-working people… And enforcing responsibility (moral and financial) for something that normal people have (and never had) nothing to do with…

  16. Joao Antonio Camoes

    Exactly the same witout England/Scotland/Wales. These countries will be part of Europe, always. EU is a project, an idea; countries should be in EU as long as there people want to be. Inside or outside EU we will be europeans, above all.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Joao Antonio Camoes
      Given your comment – it looks like your tea is VERY HERBAL!

    • Duncan

      But the sentiment isn’t without truth Tarquin. Brexit was never about turning our backs on our European neighbours for most of it’s supporters. It was doing what we feel is right for our country. So long as those who want to hurt future relations between the UK and the rest of Europe don’t get their wish of an obstinate and bitter EU divorce offer resulting in stirring up more bad feeling we can and should still be friends.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Duncan
      Agreed – mostly!

  17. kevin

    Post Brexit the UK should reinforce its ties with the Commonwealth , form trading partnerships with the growing economies of the World and hope the EU is not too bitter that we have left it .
    We can be good neighbours but we should not be held to ransom , we would be better off with EU co-operation but we will do just fine without it .

  18. Lidija Bojčić

    The election of Donald Trump has reshuffled the cards for Europe. Whether activist or isolationist, his policies will affect European interests—probably not for the better, judging by his pronouncements so far. Does it necessarily mean that the cards are stacked against Europe? No, but the EU definitely has to up its game and show a lot more resolution and unity. The prospect of Brexit has of course just rendered that even more difficult than it already was. Clearly, if and when the UK effectively leaves the EU, the remaining 27 will have a great interest in continuing to involve it in foreign policymaking. The UK however will have to accept that if it wants a ‘special relationship’ with the EU in foreign and security policy, it will have to ask for it by putting an offer on the table. One cannot slam the door and expect to be asked to return. Or do British leaders really think the special relationship with a US led by Trump will suffice to defend British interests?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Lidija Bojčić
      The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU – ask Barnier!

    • Duncan

      Lidija, there is some truth in what you say. We can still be friends after Brexit, but we need to be friends with boundaries (metaphorical as well as literal) or it won’t work. Assistance in security services and cooperation internationally are both mutually beneficial, as would be a free trade deal, acceptance/acknowledgement/support of the rights of those who have chosen to make their lives on the other side of the channel and wish to remain on that side is the sensible thing to do, no doubt many millions are feeling like they are being used as bargaining chips right now even if it is not the case and they shouldn’t need to feel like that. But, three fundamental cornerstones of the UK exit so far as I can deduce are sovereign powers and legal process must be returned to the UK, payments to the EU must stop (and payments from the EU also obviously) and borders must be fully restored. If we do not get these things from exiting the EU, then we haven’t actually left, just taken some form of second rate membership. Besides which, if we don’t obtain those 3 key points from exiting we will be unable to restore command of the nation to the nation and therefore be unable to address the many other faults within our society. If we can’t do that then the UK’s future will be bleak. Brexit was the tough choice to make, far easier to stick to what you know, but it offers the best hope for the future if we are willing to work at it. And a healthy friendly UK would be of much benefit to the EU and Europe in general. Only spite and greed can ruin the relationship completely.

    • Paul X

      I agree with Duncan and a good analogy would be to look back at a typical working class street in the “good old days”
      Those were the days when people got on with and trusted their neighbours, they would do anything and everything to help each other, their doors were left open and people could come and go into each others house exchanging gossip and snacks at will. But at the end of the day they never physically removed their doors, they still had a door with a lock which they could choose to use if they wanted to… and there in lies the lesson

  19. Georgia Sigala

    Aggressive patenting of new technology, humongous incentives for techs. Huge tariff for British imports. Better incentives for China and Russia. Forget the banking sector, will follow suit now humans are replaced by AI for mostbof their services…

    • Duncan

      No, WE don’t.

  20. Stefano Piccini

    NO NEGOTIATIONS………IN or OUT……..NOT in BETWEEN………..UK Created the problem with Brexit………it’s Their Problem and not EU problem………EU is not a garbage, EU must be respected……..so STOP WAISTING TIME……..IN EU there are more serious problem to discuss………..DO………THE ONLY NEGOTIATION MUST BE……….IN or OUT……..and THAT’S IT……….

    • Duncan

      Ok, just one example of why your simplified version of things is wrong. Let’s take a look at border zones. We have under international law obtained the right to a 200 mile exclusive economic zone around our coastlines. Dover to Calais is about 20 miles, under EU membership the eez is a shared are. After we leave the EU and UK need to negotiate a defined boundary between our eez and the EU’s eez.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      Typical arrogance of pro-UE. Uk is not out. And, as ANY OTHER COUNTRY, to look after her own interests. And not kneeling in front of Germany.

    • David Fuzzey

      The eu IS garbage and is not worth respecting.

  21. Andrzej Nowobilski

    Shut down this Federal Stalinist project, free the nations of Europe, allow them to have an identity and government returned to the people, only then bring back the Common Market.

    • Paolo Ortenzi

      The only good statement I read up to now…

  22. Luca Del Vecchio

    It has to be an Hard-Brexit and We need to go straight on the United States of Europe or just fuck up everything

  23. Roger Coates

    There are some of us in the UK who will miss you guys so much that we shall probably emigrate to an EU country. We are thoroughly pissed off with the isolationist small island mentality and as for our current government, they are slightly to the right of Genghis Khan.

    • Christofer Catilan

      If you choose any other country than Germany you would definitely not find any “big island mentality” or anything bigger (you probably miss) elsewhere in the continent regardless at sea shore or not. USA might still be a better choice if you really long for something bigger than UK. You would even understand what they say. I have lived in different countries, and inclusive USA, Rossmore Ave LA :-)

      When I visit UK I just love your “huge country”, huge in so many different ways :-) Sadly enough you have lost some of your former spender as every other EU-country in spite of English Channel :-)

    • Roger Coates

      Well Christoffer, thanks for your advice but I have 26 years’ experience of living and working in the EU, mainly in Prague, but with about 7 months in Greece. I know where I will probably go – Crete – although I have also been invited to Poland. I think the warmer climate will probably win that one.

    • Roger Coates

      Well Ivan, I work with hundreds of EU citizens from many nationalities and not one of them thinks that the UK is right to leave the EU. On the other hand, not one of them thinks that Brussels is perfect. They all know that the EU needs reform but believe that such reform must come from internal pressure from the membership. In the meantime, here are just a few of the EU benefits that you Brexiteers seem to wish to abandon:

      http://econ.economicshelp.org/2007/03/benefits-of-european-union.html?m=1

  24. Adam Krzyk

    British society was not informed when they voted. The UK thinks they will manage without EU good luck with being the USA so called partner. The UK was already lucky as they did not have to pay for their membership. So what was wrong? I believe weak EU makes USA and Russia very happy :-(

    • Paul X

      Not informed about what exactly……about how great being in the EU was for the UK?… the EU had over 40 years to explain just how beneficial our membership was and yet they either couldn’t, or more likely, were too arrogant to be bothered.
      No-one from the EU could stand up and put facts and figures on exactly how we benefit, all we ever had were threats of what may happen if we left….. well threats were never going to be the way to influence the UK population

      ..and quite how you figure being the 4th largest net contributor wasn’t paying for membership is anyone’s guess?

    • Adam Krzyk

      Ivan you invited so many nationalities, look at your society. European imigrantom were only positive one in comparison. Is Trump going to treat u as partners? Seriously?

  25. Venko Drumchiyski

    UK and EU and all EU countries – must be togther like fife fingers in one hand – they are diferent, and one by one country are week, but when they are together in one fist – they are strong and can make a punch ! UK belong to EU family. When is hard in family help to each other. EU must be like that – including UK. UK deserter from big problems last few yars, If UK was`t do that may be today we will not speak about emigration crises and Brexi. I hope EU and UK to find best solution for problems – thogether ! Good luck !

    • Duncan

      I don’t agree with your finger analogy, I do think the UK and the EU should still be working together. We are after all, still all European. But the problems the UK faces today are many and varied. Some, such as security and international cooperation we are still going to be very much in need of engagement with the EU over. Others however were being ignored under EU membership. A housing crisis that’s the worst it’s ever been in my lifetime, a NHS that’s just about ready to collapse under the strain of being hit by both budget cuts at a time of increased demand and a shortage of domestically created doctors and nurses. A military that in order to “optimise” it’s cost they have reduced hardware levels below acceptable and treated the troops so poorly the M.O.D. Cannot meet recruitment requirements, which it frankly has already set too low to begin with to be able to independently defend our nation from an aggressor the size of France or bigger. We have an education system that is being privatised whilst remaining out of touch with workforce expectations and is therefore failing our future generations in preparing them for adult life. I could go on and on and on. But I think I made my point.
      Basically EU, we just really need to work on ourselves right now. It’s not you, it’s us. We think maybe it’s time we started seeing other countries. But we can still be friends?

  26. Louis Jeffs

    I’ll tell you my post-brexit plan – start looking for work in the Republic of fucking Ireland!

  27. Peter

    Very sad developement that whole Brexit process is. EU should negotiate a close good neighborhood agreement now – and I am sure, British people would welcome non-economical cooperations in science and technology, police and justice, environmemt, foreign policy etc even if they back their government in abandoning social rights and lower wages as soon they are out of the single market

    • EU reform- proactive

      Peter, as a non British subject, I observe with astonishment that you turn events on it’s head. Remember, not only GB but most (all) early EEC/EC members joined in the believe to participate in an exclusive economic- customs union partnership.

      What happened since then? Which sinister forces were unhappy & steered towards a unitary, centralised EU state- folks didn’t asked for or never were asked about? The “deep” EU leadership seem to be shell shocked now. Very sad!

    • Peter

      @EU…
      That is not true. Read some original documents by Monnet and other ‘architects’ of the European cooperations. Economy was always meant as a first step vehicle for closer political and finally federal institutions. I hope we will progress on that path.

    • EU reform- proactive

      Peter, I remain astonished. Maybe I & many others missed that. Please post any reputable link if your, Monett’s or Schuman’s final version was truly & fully communicated or explained by the various political parties when it mattered- (at the time of canvassing to vote for or against to join such economic or custom union back then).

    • EU reform- proactive

      Apologies to all Monnet’s for misspelling their name. Decisive is not what a “Monnet & Co” had finally envisaged- but what & how political parties presented & marketed an idea or part off- to capture voters.

  28. Peter

    As sad as the situation is all in all, it is fun to see British government beg for ‘best possible deal’ :-) Hope EU cannot be blackmailed by that British tax haven charade.

    • EU reform- proactive

      …………political bargaining (negotiations) include the whole array of options- even “regime change”- so effectively & destructively demonstrated by “Democrat” Hillary Clinton.

    • Peter

      … and that would be secretly supporting anti-EU parties in the Netherlands, France and Germany in coming elections like the British maybe also did in the US? Oh no, I forgot – it was Putin. Too much conspiracy? Ok. But you started with ‘all options’. Wouldn’t rule out something like that. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

    • EU reform- proactive

      yes Peter, visible is only one side of the moon- the other one is invisible but present.
      A pity, we do not have transparent and honest anti EU parties in the EP. Most just sturr the muddy waters in an all but pro EU only EP.

  29. RuleofLaw

    Europe must protect its own interests. This heap of rubble and scheming culture of thieves and useless people and lack of values that the UK is must not be treated preferentially.

    • Duncan

      Your derogatory comments about the UK aside, you are right. We aren’t seeking preferential treatment, we are seeking fair treatment, so in the best interests of the EU, any and all fair requests made by our government will be met with. Why? Because if not then the end of the negotiations will result In a complete and utter end to free trade between the UK and EU, a complete and utter end to the possibility of UK cooperation with the EU on customs, borders and security matters, and create a sense of rivalry rather than friendship between the UK economy and those of EU nations. None of that will be good for the EU, I’m not saying it will be good for the UK either, but the EU will suffer massively from it also. A messy “divorce” will only benefit the lawyers, not the divorcing parties.

  30. Richard Pring

    Problems of the EU include the poor understanding of normal nonpolitical people in really understanding how the EU is operating and why decisions are made.Possibly the fault of MEPs who have little opportunity to meet people and discuss in the way tha tUK MPs have surgeries. I an a strong Europhile and the principle of many countries of Europe working together on trade, human rights, the environment, universal (but sensible!) health and safety rules, scientific research etc. can only be for the good of everyone. We do not return to the early years of the 20th century when countries just looked after themselves and to hell with everyone else. Where did that lead us? None of this seems to be explained well.It is only now, when Brexit appears, are the facts of how much we have gained from European rules, and how difficult it is to retain what is good within our own legislation are the real behind the scenes work and organisation becoming apparent. Problems arise when EU officials seem to start legislating on unnecessary objectives such as standard sizes for fruit, traditional foods, individual countries cultural differences etc. Quite out of order and breeds resent. Individual countries want to maintain their own cultures and traditions without remote interference. Obviously not everyone will agree with others points of view, but toleration must be shown
    I have traveled widely in both Western and Eastern Europe, in both rich and poor countries. I have seen how poorer countries have benefited from European membership in financial, cultural and development terms and far from complaining about the UK’s payment into Europe, I have always been proud of the fact that some of my taxes have h gone towards this help. I feel very sad that the discussion at present is simply around trade deals and how different states would benefit in cash terms. No mention about co-operating with others on cultural aims, or admitting that the richer countries have a moral responsibility for helping others. However, I would be the first to agree that in some cases the money has not been well spent, and the control over how it has been spent has been woeful. In general the organisation of the EU has been remote and in many cases visibly wasteful, which leads to many people objecting to the situation as it is. If the EU had shown signs of putting it’s own house in order there would be more sympathy. Why on earth do both the Strasbourg and Brussels centres have to exist? Why cannot basic accommodation – sleeping plus office – be provided for MEPs rather than claiming for expensive accommodation. Very small items but the sort of thing that would appeal to normal people.
    Brexit has opened the eyes off many people to what EU membership really means and has achieved. Perhaps when more negotiations lead top a clearer view, the EU itself might learn from the situation, admit to some of it’s failings and come up with an outline plan of improvement in it’s operation. Remaining in such an improved and less remote EU could then be put to the UK people as an alternative to leaving on the terms that will then be apparent. With the hopefully increased understanding of the UK for the EU population by then, and possibly more input from the younger people, a true European result would occur.

    • EU reform- proactive

      Richard, isn’t the desire and wishes of “normal nonpolitical people” the essence of democracy- to be transferred & taken up by honest political intermediaries for the benefit of varying societies?

      All these great EU values always mentioned is not a sole EU invention, but copied from the many globally derived UN & CoE resolutions & institutions which evolved since 1945 and opportunistically repackaged recently by the EU as their own. Sad, another fake belief.

    • Duncan

      Richard, any reforms process the EU implements upon itself now is at least 5 years too late to prevent the UK from leaving. Too much ignoring of the will of the people with regards to EU operation and decisions has occurred already for the ideals of cooperation for good causes to be enough of a reason to want to stay. I don’t think the problem lies with how much money flowed from the UK into the EU, I think the problem starts with where the money came from. It came from public funds, since 2008 public funds have not been enough to provide adequate services here in the UK to meet the needs of the UK, yet we were still sending money abroad. That’s not an easy thing to ask people to accept. Meanwhile because of freedom of movement and a limited amount of building space and funding we have tens of millions in need of affordable housing that simply isn’t available, how can people be asked to be ok with not having a roof over their families heads? Because of a virtually limitless supply of cheap labour options because of freedom of movement the low end of wages have stagnated while the cost of living has crept up, companies are getting away with offering minimum wages for jobs that are traditionally better paid merely because there are plenty of workers and so people have been made to accept wage depreciation or suffer to have no wage at all, how can we expect that to be accepted? In short, it’s been “the little people” of the UK who have suffered from EU membership while “the elite” have enjoyed the benefits such as a vast open market where instead of tariffs on goods you buy the cost is paid from taxes, where you can offer low wages and still get your labour needs met. Where you can overcharge for rental properties and still people will need to pay it. Where you can use your immoral financial increases to buy expensive foreign cars without paying import fees, and jetset around Europes tourist hotspots with ease and at reduced expense. Basically in short EU membership was (maybe not deliberately, but irreversibly) creating a wealth devide here in the UK that was unacceptable. Maybe if EU funding had come from those who earned as much pay this year by the 2nd of January as I will do by the 31st of December, people wouldn’t have minded it.

  31. Karolina

    There will be less hatred and more unity in the EU once the UK is out of it. The EU should capitalise on this sense of unity.

    • Paul X

      Erm, you must be talking about another EU? There certainly is not much sense of unity in France, Italy, Greece etc at the moment
      Stop blaming the UK for the incompetence of the EU, the UK public’s opinion displayed in the Brexit referendum was a reaction to these failures, but they are certainly not the cause

    • Duncan

      Karolina, just go through the comments on this forum please. You can see for yourself there is hatred in abundance all the way across the EU. It’s pointed in many different directions but there’s not a lack of it. Some hate America, some hate Turkey, some hate the UK, some hate Germany, some hate Greece, many hate Muslims, lots hate immigrants/refugees. It really is eye opening to read the vicious comments still being made in mainland Europe.

  32. Karolina

    Deeper integration should be the plan.

  33. Dino Boy Mican

    The British with all the good things they ve achieved and their contribution to culture and science, their stance towards a united Europe has always been negative. Whatever they can’t control, they fight. In the EU they were placed as equals next to France and Germany and lesser countries (trying to check them on America’s behalf) a position they were never too comfortable with, esp after the dismantling of the mighty British Empire

    • Wendy Harris

      The British stance towards the EU has always been not to be ruled by Germany. Something other European countries don’t seem to mind.

    • Sari Bruno

      Wendy Harris ; That´s exactly the main problem; you think that the EU is just ruled by Germany and you have to fight against Germany. In same level you are right, Germany is economically strongest country at the moment, but even Germany must change now, if we really want to create a new more consolidated EU; in other words, it is not to fight against Germany, but a fight for the unity and social welfare of all Europeans.

  34. Azad Maruf

    Please support our outstanding cases raised to the well known human rights lawyer, Amal Clooney, and the 190 members of the Interpol…..wars industry embraces various legal, illegal and criminal organisation that is the main reason for that bunch s that serious crimes of frogery and preventing the causes of Justice are set free against me…U.K. is the oldest imperialist power in the region and Iraq is fallen under their that illegal wars projects influences…Their modern styles of killing allows them to kill us with political crimes, if they could do that at any time.As their medical crimes are in denial…professors like Simon and Birmingham and that several Doctors should be supported to tell you and the world that truth…..I prefered you to support me through offering me the required medical treatment and to represent my that seriously violated human rights.

  35. Sari Bruno

    The EU must go on with all it´s projects of social welfare of all it´s citizens and respect for human rights. Personally I think, in the world today, unemployment should be considered as a crime against human rights, because it is the only way for a decent life that most people have.

    • Kirstie Mamoyo Rogers

      why, what is the point? Quite childish really, don’t you think there are more urgent matters that should be dealt with?

  36. Rosy Forlenza

    The EU should try and take the higher moral ground by simply guaranteeing the rights of uk citizens who are resident in the EU. This is mainly because it is the right thing to do (two wrongs don’t make a right) and it would also prevent the toying with people’s lives that DD etc., are trying to do, it is taking charge and refusing to play the childish nursery game that the hardline tories are. in other words ‘you do what you want, we are doing this..’. Also don’t compromise on european wellbeing, prosperity and security after that, or new free movement of uk citizens after that.

  37. Lynda Germon

    They wanted out …(well some of them) so all rules and regulations for non EU countries apply ! End of story !

  38. Sylwester Slojewski

    Then things got the British are floating away from Europe you all the Muslim Islamic criminal will flirt with them away from Europe

  39. Max Berre

    Offer UK a “switzerland status” on a “take-it-or-leave it” basis.
    Then… consolidate the core EU institutions, that the UK was preventing from happening

required
required Your email will not be published

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Notify me of new comments. You can also subscribe without commenting.

More debates from this series – ME&EU View all