Brexit Symbol of the Referendum UK vs EU

Britain is divorcing Europe. To be honest, it was always a marriage of convenience; the passion was never really there (notwithstanding the touching “Hug a Brit” social media campaign run during the referendum, whose poignant final tweet reads: “Sadly we didn’t hug enough.”).

Of course, just because the marriage is over doesn’t mean that the (unhappy) couple shouldn’t craft an effective working relationship. Trade, business, and tourism must continue. For the moment, however, we must deal with the thorny issue of officially filing the divorce papers.

Under the EU’s Lisbon Treaty, withdrawing from the European Union is handled by Article 50. Once a Member State has formally invoked Article 50 and declared their intention to leave, the clock starts ticking. After two years, unless an agreement has been reached or there is unanimous approval from all parties for an extension, the UK would be booted out of the Single Market and presumably revert to WTO rules on trade. This would entail hefty tariffs, but also raise all sorts of technical barriers to trade.

We had a comment sent in by David via our Suggest a Debate page. He believes that a debate about Article 50 would be interesting:

Image of a citizenPlease debate when should the U.K. invoke Article 50, if ever, for the benefit of Europe. And may I suggest approximately ten years and only if all EU countries agree?

Many Europeans politicians have been urging the UK to invoke Article 50 as soon as possible, because they fear uncertainty will weigh down on the European economy. However, experts caution that negotiations will likely take much longer than two years, and possibly as long as a decade. One mooted possibility was to begin informal negotiations before invoking Article 50 some time down the line, but the European Commission swiftly poured cold water on that idea.

Once Article 50 is activated, the die is cast. The UK will be cut of out internal EU decision-making (as well as all decisions regarding the EU side of negotiations with the UK), and will be unable to change its mind and cancel Brexit unless by unanimous consent from all EU countries. Any final agreement will also need the consent of all EU governments, the European parliament, and probably all national parliaments as well. That might be a tall order within the Article 50 time limit.

Obviously, the UK needs time to find a new Prime Minister. After that, however, delaying too much could add to the economic uncertainty, and might frustrate Britain’s negotiating partners at a time that clear heads are needed. It could also upset the British public, who may believe they have voted to leave promptly.

When should Britain invoke Article 50 and officially begin Brexit? Can the negotiations be completed in less than two years, or will they drag on for a decade? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

IMAGE CREDITS: Ezio Gutzemberg – Bigstockphoto.com


557 comments Post a commentcomment

What do YOU think?

  1. catherine benning

    As soon as we have a new Prime Minister, this week or early next.

    To delay is absurd. Another Referendum is not going to be called. Beside, the country and the business world need clarity and stability. This measure will then move us into negotiations which can bring about a sensible way forward for all of us.

    • Pauline Morell

      Delay is the the very best course of action now. The legality of this referendum is open to very serious questions…the majority is extradinariy slim and the consequences extremely serious for ALL the population. Most of the politicians leading the Brexit have resigned/run away from the consequences of their actions. Delay and careful consideration is the most PRUDENT option.

    • Tim Elkington

      In this debate you assert that all British subjects living abroad were eligible to vote. This is incorrect. If, as I, you have lived outside the UK for more than 15 years you were denied the right to vote. I live in Greece on the basis of a British EU passport and the Greek government deemed me to be ‘repatriating’ when I moved here from Australia . I was born and spent half my life in England but I, and five others living on my island, were denied a say in a matter that can have serious consequences for us. As far as I am concerned this referendum was shonky and un constitutional and should be ignored.

    • david edwards

      I think we find out who the next prime minister is in September, can you wait ? I am happy to wait and plan the journey before we set off imo

    • Yasmine

      I agree with the responses above that the referendum raises a lot of legal questions. EU citizens were also not allowed to vote but they were in the Scottish one. I am personally happy for Brits and other EU citizens to be living in Greece and driving in for the weekend. It has made the country feel so much more open and cosmopolitan. I don’t want this to end.

    • Joao

      The “legality” of democracy is a very dangerous concept. It’s not because the wining margin was so small that a referendum should be considered illegal. The liberal neocons in power will do their best to have another referendum so that the people can now vote as they want. It’s not news in Europe, it already happened in Ireland, France… let’s give the sheeple an illusion of choice and if they happen to vote the other way around we will make them vote over and over again until they got it right. Politics and politicians thinking (as usual) that they know better than the people. UK should invoke the article and start negotiating with the EU as soon as possible so that the people’s choice will be served!

  2. Ivan Burrows

    .

    We are no longer under the thumb of Brussels so it will be activated when the British people are good & ready.

    vive la liberté

    • Yasmine

      Ivan, can’t you see the contradiction in your post?

  3. SD

    Britain should initiate Article 50 as soon as it has a new Prime Minister.

    • david edwards

      That`s a start but then what ? What do you want the UK to do first ? The discussion about free movement of people and goods needs to take place here and in Europe. There is no need to rush imo

    • James

      First send in our army to secure our borders, and immediately stop giving money to the EU.

  4. Andrej Němec

    Yes, Brussels should adopt quick and effective coercive measures to force the UK trigger the article 50 and leave once and for all the European Union.
    And the sooner the better!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Andrej Němec
      They’ve tried and died failed.

    • David

      I agree! If the EU sees the UK to be dragging its feet, it should invoke article 50 for us! We want a swift and full exit! No free movement of people should be cast in stone!

  5. Anti-EU Citizen

    I can hardly wait for Frexit and Nexit.The French and the Dutch voted against the European Constitution and you ignored the voice of the people.EU must be dismantled because of that.

    • YourName

      The EU does not have a Constitution, so those referendums worked, contrary to what you are saying. Stop babbling and sending false messages.

    • Kat

      That was 2005 , and the EU did listen ,the constitution was not ratified – what is your point?

    • Paul X

      The constitution was not ratified, but it was re-named the Lisbon treaty and pushed through anyway and that is just one example of the devious way the EU operates and why people have issues with it

    • pete

      I love and enjoy brexit because of most eastern European racism stupidity And their clear ambitions to overwhelm the UK. Brexit now they should all go

  6. catherine benning

    The very first move the UK must take is to fire the Bank of England’s Mark Carney. He’s a disaster in this role, not simply for Britain, but for the rest of the financial market worldwide.

    He, a Canadian, should never have been given the post he has at the Bank of England in the first place. His allegiance is not to GB it is to his own pocket, as he plays the rates for his own fortune. Politics are not his remit.

    All banks should be very disturbed by this man’s determination to use political preferences to create insecurity at a rate he is bringing about. And he is being less than truthful by causing chaos as he tries to bring about a recession across Europe as a whole. A recession is what he forecast and it made little difference to the OUT vote, therefore what he is driving for financially must be the result, in order to reduce his obvious lack of talent as a futures predictor.

    He must return to Canada and push for recession there.

    • Pauline Morell

      These are RACIST comments and have NO credibility.

    • Alan

      Mark Carney…..When he steps forward to speak my mind thinks the grim reaper is approaching. Body language?

    • david edwards

      The Bank of England had a post-referendum-result plan, as they have demonstrated, that should reassure you; please allow them to continue imo.

      As for the credibility of Mark Carney, would you like your doctor to tell you everything is going to be alright if he knows you`re not alright…?

    • Yasmine

      So, Catherine, now suddenly you are not prepared to respect the democratic constitution of the UK that allows a Canadian to be in this post and to vote in British elections…your sense of democracy is one that simply follows your moods…

    • Bruce

      Pauline morrell- he is a canadian an if pointing out the obvious is racist ( oh so fashionable) then sure spellcheck was used to spell credibility…fool

  7. Rikki Du Heaume

    Never please, now the idiots have resigned and cowardly ran away from the responsibility of the mess they created. We would like the chance to never actually invoke the stupidity many were misled to vote for.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Rikki Du Heaume
      Hmmm, BOTH sides in the UK referendum LIED.

    • Pauline Morell

      Agreed….the ignorant masses fell for the lies and deceit perpetrated by those who have now run away from the chaos they have created

    • Eric Wheelwright

      It was a fair referendum and we should invoke article50 asap.

    • Kathleen Richardson

      ASAP, stop stalling and trying to find a way to ignore the decision, there has been too much of that already. The sooner we get on with it the better, more stability all round. The EU are pretty good at making rules and laws, they should make one setting a time limit on invoking article 50 or the EU will do it for them. That is one law I would be all for.

    • catherine benning

      Yasmine

      When you can follow a subject fully and understand the connection to the matter, then I will respond to you.

      As I am not coming here to play games on simpleton propaganda about race, which like many, you clearly do not understand the meaning of, I shall not attempt to educate.

      Race is genetic, not something you pick up by living in a chosen country.

      Here read and take it in.

      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/race

      Canadian is not a race, it is of a country. Mark Carney’s ‘race’ is caucasian.

      Cau·ca·sian
      /kôˈkāZHən/

      noun noun: Caucasian, plural noun: Caucasians

      1. a white person; a person of European origin: “the man is described as being a 50-year-old Caucasian with a full head of graying hair”
      2. a person from the Caucasus: “the Caucasians of Southern Russia”

      adjective

      1. white-skinned; of European origin: “twenty of the therapists were Caucasian, two were African American, and two were Hispanic”
      ▪ of or relating to one of the traditional divisions of humankind, covering a broad group of peoples from Europe, western Asia, and parts of India and North Africa.
      2. relating to the Caucasus.
      3. relating to a group of languages spoken in the region of the Caucasus, of which thirty-eight are known, many not committed to writing. The most widely spoken is Georgian, of the small South Caucasian family, not related to the three North Caucasian families.

    • Yasmine

      THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

  8. Γεωργιος Βήτα

    It should have happened yesterday. And if they do not activate it on their own they should be thrown out of the single market and the shared eu banking system.

    • catherine benning

      THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

  9. Andrew Jones

    It wasn’t a legally binding referendum……. they probably won’t leave now once may gets in.

    • catherine benning

      @ Andrew Jones:

      In your dreams.

  10. Paula Goesten

    Cameron is still getting paid to do his job! He should have already done it!!!! Why give the people a referendum and then totally ignore their wishes!!!

    • Eric Wheelwright

      Agree

    • Javid

      That’s what politic is about. Ignoring people.

  11. Julius Unsing

    It should be done as soon as possible as this result is now a test of democracy and any attempt to derail the result would show the utter contempt of any government towards the will of its people irrespective of the size of the majority vote.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Dimitris Athanasopoulos
      It’ll be a recession for the UK and a catastrophe for the rump EU.

    • Bruce

      Fortune telling seems the job of the day

  12. Maria Helena Neto

    I think that we should democratize decision making in Europe before many others decide to go. Ter UK don’t have to leave if they don’t want to. They are a very important part of The european history.

  13. Marcel

    The referendum was not legally binding so the question is inconsequential. To invoke Article 50, it has to go via parliament which means a majority of MP’s have to vote for it. When that happens, this question is consequential.

    • catherine benning

      Marcel:

      You are quite wrong. It does ‘not’ have to go to Parliament. And if you don’t believe that check out the blog of the man who is UK Parliaments legal authority.

      The Remain group may try to pull that shit off in order to postpone invoking Article 50 until after March next year. But that will never happen. We British are not fools.

    • Pauline Morell

      Corruption is MUCH closer to home

    • catherine benning

      @ Stephen Baker

      Tony Blair and his sickening crawlers are at the back of this unscrupulous game. He thinks he is still in with a chance for some kind of European President. And, as he ‘still’ gives advice to the EU he doesn’t want to be out of money.

      Likewise the freakish, Lord Mandelson, along with the Kinnocks, etc.. Collectively they are sucking millions from the EU with all kinds of perks, pensions and expenses. Then there are the House of Lords gentleman farmers who are cleaning up on EU subsidies.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/04/tony-blair-appointed-head-of-european-body-antisemitism

      The lot of them are fighting like rats in a sack.

    • Kat

      And what did you win ? you do not know yet. Wait and see what your glittering prize is before you gloat. So far , all Brexit advocates have walked away , no 350 million , immigration will not significantly change , and we still need EEA which will still incur a cost , as there is no Brexit plan perhaps the remain are less sore losers and more intelligent realists.

    • Bob

      @ Kat,I love the way you criticize everything that hasn’t happened in the first 3 weeks post Brexit.It seems odd that anyone should be so naive or ill informed to believe that everything that was predicted would occur overnight.
      Sterling has recovered well and suffered none of the huge falls predicted ,as has the ftse,bussinesses are still exporting ,countries are lining up to open new trade deals.Contrary to the whining of the remainers they are being proved wrong,and all this despite the political situation.
      Article 50 will be invoked despite the whinging of the remainers ” its not legal !”
      In twelve months the proof of all this will be evident,what I really dont understand is why those who wanted to remain seem determined to remain a problem and not part of the solution.You yourself seem stuck in a world of gloom,what you see as a miserable future ,I see as a shining opportunity,I guess some folks are just naturally predisposed to misery,a shame !

  14. John Williams

    A few are saying”never” which probably isn’t going to happen but a decision needs to be made ASAP. This hanging about is making us look weak & wobbly

  15. mister-ede

    It should be up to GB to decide. In my opinion for the EU it is more important to think about its structure. I have many suggestions, how a better EU could look like. New way of economic policy. More rights for the EU-Parliament. Or an integration with different speed – the inner circle I call “European Federation”.

    And if the EU becomes better, perhaps GB stays in the EU or finds a place later again.

  16. Michael Šimková

    Depends. If Juncker says Monday, then Tuesday. If Juncker says Tuesday, then Wednesday. If Juncker says never, then immediately. If Juncker says immediately, then never.

    • Phil Watson

      @MrEde If you think the EU can be reformed, good luck, it doesn’t to reform, it wants more power.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Annibale Biagetti
      Ah, so the EU shows its Nazi nasty colours.

      Very disturbing, very undemocratic, very EU!

  17. Martin Unterholzner

    As soon as they have a new prime minister, but in any case within six months. In the mean time EU leaders should rethink EU institutions and decision-making processes within the EU. We need more direct democracy in the EU.

  18. Simon Barnes

    Once Britain is able to tell its arse from its elbow. And not before. The EU actually seems to be cutting us a fair bit of slack. They’re not stupid. They can see that the UK electorate was manipulated by crooks and charlatans, and that this was never a “yes/no” proposition. Voters didn’t have any exit strategies to choose from. We didn’t know what the plan was then, and we still don’t know now. Let’s hear the plan. Then people can make up their own minds whether it’s what they thought they were voting for, or not. And while we’re at it, let’s hear the time frames. 2 years to conclude article 50. And then another 5 to 7 (allegedly) to draw up new trade agreements with the Single Market and the rest of the world. This cannot happen until we’ve left the EU. We’ve just done something monumentally stupid. Now let’s figure out what we can do as a nation to put it right.

    • Caroline Langston

      Couldn’t agree more.

    • Pauline Morell

      Absolutely.

    • catherine benning

      Simon Barnes

      You really must read up more. Article 50 must be invoked before March 31st 2017. It is imperative that it takes place long before then though. Otherwise there is going to be serious blow back from the public.

      And if you listen to this speech you will gain some of what you want to know. This woman is more likely than May to be our next PM.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezy1WUTUYE8

    • Caroline Langston

      Article 50 is only invoked when the MPs have voted & if they decide we should leave.

    • Kat

      Totally agree.

    • rob

      couldn’t agree more Boris is a clown should be in circus best our next pm Mrs May can do is say never to 50

    • Bruce

      Oh really!guess we’re all gullible then Simon? Guess your educated in the art stupidity why the majority studoed reality

    • Bob

      Simon ,I would suggest that your patronising attitude and your belief that the electorate were manipulated is something you should rethink.
      You seem to credit everyone with less intelligence than you,that sir is a very dangerous position to take as its far to easy to prove you wrong.

    • Kat

      Did you not follow the campaign ?

    • catherine benning

      Caroline Langston:

      Want to bet? Article 50 does not need any parliamentary request or vote.

      Here it is from the horses mouth. Parliament itself.

      XXXXXXX

      Reply
      Bruce Roberts says:
      July 1, 2016 at 4:06 pm

      What happens if the new PM wants to invoke Article 50 with parliaments approval (which I think they should) but cannot muster a majority? Despite being unable to get a majority, they would not necessrily be able to dissolve parliament. Do we not have a stalemate and a ridiculous lame duck government?
      Reply

      Croft says:
      July 3, 2016 at 11:44 am

      No consent by parliament is required to invoke Art 50. So ultimately if parliament obstructs that’s the fall back position.

      Life is going to be complicated where you have 2/3rds of MPs opposed to the public will.
      Reply
      maude elwes says:
      July 3, 2016 at 9:44 pm

      @ Croft:

      Quod erat demonstrandum

      This comes from the House of Lords professor in Parliamentary legality.

      Go to his blog and ask your idiotic repetitive question and tell him ‘he is wrong.’

    • Gavin Dyball

      The public will what about the 2 million of the leave voters who realised that they were decieved on a epic unprecedented scale. That means that the majority now want to remain or soon will when the effect really kicks in and more change their position. Also do you think that we can just sit and watch our country decline and tear itself apart. Renegotiate and reform the EU and make it acceptable to all. I think Merkel and Hollande will do the right thing and the rest of the EU will follow suit. They have no choice otherwise the EU will crumble. EU without the UK cannot be. Churchill was one of the 7founders and our shared history cannot be ignored.

    • Gavin Dyball

      Never, diplomacy to change and reform.

  19. Michael Crahart

    It should have already been done. The govt are stalling for time because the now gone Brexiteers didn’t have a plan.

  20. eleni chryssomalakou

    UK must think very carefully.There are two nations ,Scotland and Northern Ireland who overwhelmingly and clearly voted for remain.Ignoring them could put UK’s integrity in jeopardy.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Eleni Chryssomalakou
      A referendum in the UK about the EU a referendum in the UK about the UK.

      Doh!

    • Yasmine

      Gibraltar as well voted to stay in at 95%.

  21. Mike Chambers

    The Prime Minister could do it now, but he/she will not do it without the agreement of Prliament.

    • Pauline Morell

      Absolutely..,THAT ….is democracy….not emotional decisions taken on the basis of race and religion and misinformation by ‘runaway’ Boris & racist Nigel Farage

  22. Eira Brightman

    Simple , now settle everyone down once done and all those remain and solicitors that are trying to stop it can go and find something else to do

    • catherine benning

      Pauline Morell:

      You do realise Boris Johnson is married to an Indian woman and has mixed Indian race children. Surely that cannot make him a racist. I would be more circumspect in these matters if I was you.

      Nigel Farage, likewise, is married to a German woman and also has children of German/English children. Not racist in the least. So stop that c.r.a.p. Let go of the race card that was yesterdays pal.

    • Yasmine

      Catherine, there were also Jewish guards/generals in the concentration camps, that, I hear, were nastier than the Germans. Does that make the crimes of the Nazis less racist in your mind?

  23. Mick Symonds

    Not yet, and preferably never. If informal discussions were to start, and the UK government and people came to realise that they were *not* going to be able to have their cake and eat it too, they might come to their senses and decide to stay. Then it would be a matter of whether a second referendum or a general election were the better way of getting that endorsed. The latter might be an excellent opportunity for ditching this current, toxic UK government, too.

    • Caroline Langston

      Catherine Benning- Boris is married to a British Lawyer who was appointed to Queens Council this year.

    • Bruce

      Yes min ” you heard”-guess in the study halls of Oxford. Enough of the silly people you lost an now it’s time to earn your way! Not turning a profit on cheap labour!!!

  24. Carys Allen

    Times like this l feel so ashamed of being a brit abroad. And we weren’t even allowed to vote so don’t wish to read or hear stupidities about democracy thanks

    • Pauline Morell

      So understand where you are coming from….ashamed to be seen driving a British car on the continent.

    • catherine benning

      @ Carys Allen

      Don’t tell porkies, all ex patriot Brits were allowed a vote. You simply didn’t bother to register.

      Not only ex pats had postal votes, so did half of the world.

    • Yasmine

      That’s why the UK doesn’t want its laws to be overridden by EU laws…it is worried it will have to start respecting Human Rights…it would rather get out of it…

    • Paul X

      The European Convention of Human Rights is nothing to do with the EU. It came into being before the EU/EEC was in existence and the UK helped draft it and was one of the first to sign up to it
      It pays to research facts instead of just regurgitating media hype

    • Yasmine

      Forget about that Smart Alec, Paul. The UK has been campaigning to come out of the Human Rights Act as well. EU law is at the same level. It is international law that is meant to guarantee people’s and companies’ rights at the hands of their own governments. There is a pattern to it. That’s the whole point, it controls national governments.

    • Bruce

      Abroad could be a hint? Sure you were offered a vote in the country you now harp from an had your say in there general election you left the UK for? No! well pull your head in!

    • sue finch

      The only truly democratic country is North Korea. Many Leave voters are only now learning what they voted for. Both sides were wrong in not giving full information, implications, and setting out clear plans. You see the leavers comments which have absolutely no bearing on in In/out question they voted for, or indeed EU matters at all. People need to be fully informed, know what the detailed forward plans are and agreed on that correct basis before this can be laid to rest. Believe me, the country is going down seriously, and even more so when Article 50 is triggered. Very many companies are planning to move away from the U.K., and investment is on hold. Maybe, though not 100% correct, most of the Remainers predictions will turn out to be true.

    • David Edwards

      Agreed

  25. GrahamandLinda Hinkin

    The people who make decisions,are working away doing what they do. When they are ready they will tell the politicians what to say.

  26. Tarquin Farquhar

    Next year or the year after.

    The UK can start negotiating trade deals with India, China, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, Mexico, South Korea etc etc before submitting the Lisbon Treaty article 50 letter.

    In the mean time, Greece will get bailed out again.
    Italian banks will need to be bailed out.
    The German extreme-immigration policy will result in Visegrad nations defying the EU.

    • Yasmine

      Care to explain to us how being an EU member prevents the UK from having deals with these countries?

    • Yasmine

      Ha ha ha! So the UK already has a deal with China, as indeed does the whole EU…No prevention!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Yasmine
      That has to be the silliest question I have seen on this forum PERIOD!

    • Yasmine

      And I trust your judgement, Tarquin EXCLAMATION MARK!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Yasmine
      Thank you for trusting my judgement.

  27. Colin Senior

    Carys Allen stay a Broad if you dont live here dont moan you made your bed now lie on it

  28. David Miller

    When they are fully prepared for it 👍 🇬🇧 which does not seem to be at this moment in time 😏

  29. Paul X

    Not until the UK has its own plan of exactly how to proceed in the two years that will follow

    The EU is holding meetings to discuss the situation and the UK are not permitted to join these (despite still being a fully paid up member and not even having legally
    confirmed an intention to leave ) Therefore the UK is morally entitled to do it’s own pre-Article 50 planning without having to give any due consideration to the rest of the EU

    • catherine benning

      @ Paul X

      You do of course realise if we leave it, their right to invoke on their own time, expires under the treaty agreement. And from then on it will need 14 EU states to agree to our exit and the terms of that exit. Then you will love that won’t you?

      The date is March 31st, 2017. After that date the EU decides what is good for them. And they can stop us leaving altogether. Which the Remain group are fully aware of and hoping for.

      Press for it to be invoked immediately. There are petitions to do this.

    • Paul X

      Actually Catherine I would not “love it” you clearly have not been paying much attention to my opinions on the in/out EU debate if you think that
      My opinion is that the UK invokes article 50 only when it is fully prepared to do so and not because of any pressure from the EU
      As for the supposed deadline before Article 50 can be blocked by QMV apart from a few random blogs misinterpreting the facts there looks to be no truth in this. As far as I can see the only change will be that the terms of article 50 be decided by QMV but it does not mean article 50 can actually be blocked

      https://commonslibraryblog.com/2014/09/08/extending-qualified-majority-voting-in-the-european-union-does-this-mean-the-end-of-british-sovereignty/

    • Phil Watson

      That’s the ‘democratic’ EU for you eh? Project fear still running along in the EU, making sure other countries that want to leave get frightened not to. Same old EU.

  30. Clive Allen

    They will not implement it until after March next year. They know this is then too late as per the Lisbon Treaty. After March 2017 it requires a vote and a majority to agree. No single state can get out of it without 14 others agreeing. Welcome to the new democracy. They all knew this and played both sides. They are all cretinous morons with no shadow of respect for the populace of this UK we love.

    • catherine benning

      @ Paul X:

      Please do read this and take it on board.

      http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14579738.Article_50_process_explained/

      What is it with people that they cannot accept, what is so obvious and open, when they simply refuse to get their head around what is alien it as it doesn’t work for them.

      Open up to facts. The British government are pulling a fast one by not invoking Article 50. They are screwing our democratic election. And they know it. Just because they are keeping it quiet, doesn’t mean they are not on that path. .

      How many times do you have to be punched in the face by those who run our show? How long does it take to realise your eye is coming out?

      Article 50 is a must and now.

    • Paul X

      Catherine, do you deliberately keep replying on different threads to the one you are actually responding to?

    • Yasmine

      LOL! I love this debate!

    • catherine benning

      @ Paul X:

      Yes. It is deliberate.

    • Paul X

      @ Catherine
      Lol…. no problem with it… just thought I’d ask :-)

    • Yasmine

      Trying to hide the reply, so you don’t get one in return?

  31. David Hobson

    I feel the longer we leave it the more we can be frightened to death by the faceless beaurocrats in Brussels. Until we actually invoke article 50 neither nor Brussels can move on. Let’s get on with it asap.

  32. Craig Skinner

    We should allow article 6.4 to be initiated, then be kicked out without renegotiation periods.

  33. Conor Gallagher

    In due course, subject to parliamentary approval, after an electoral mandate is received, in a Queen’s speech (not this Queen, the next one)…

    • Kat

      :D

  34. Heather Lucy Clarke

    Asap then we can start proceedings they have already had requests from commonwealth waiting to discuss exports also several EU country’s

  35. Kenny Evans

    What makes me laugh,all the remain people still having a a moan about loosing , look if you ain’t happy about living in Great Britain go live in Europe if you love it so much

    • Kat

      How can we go to Europe when we will no longer be part of Europe ? There is no long term plan in that , there is no long term freedom of movement. People are not moaning about losing , they are concerned about the future – if that make you laugh, your humour is quite perverse.

    • Paul X

      Of course we can still go to Europe, so we may have to get a visa first and show a passport but so what, what is the big deal?…. Nobody from the UK ever had true freedom of movement into Europe because there is a great big strip of water between us

      The people who will suffer most with passports and visas will be convicted criminals, drug smugglers, people traffickers and terrorists…so the problem is?

    • Kat

      Paul

      It may sound simple to get a visa and show a passport , but having lived outside the EU and applied for work permits and residents visas ,I know it is not simple , it is expensive and does not necessarily give you equal rights in the country you live – if you only holiday for a couple of weeks, no problem , if you want to relocate , bigger problem.
      I do not believe for a moment it will stop criminals and drug smugglers travelling, they rarely use legal papers to travel.

    • Paul X

      I dont disagree Kat, but just what percentage of UK residents ever want or can afford to relocate to Europe?

      Why should the vast majority have the additional risks of free movement just to make life easier for a very small minority

  36. John Micheal Shane Tutin

    rite now .n shut these ani-brexits fuckin mouths n stop them hurting anymore innocent people because they horrid losers who r traitors to britain

  37. Pete John Stoneham

    In reality it should have been done by Mr I’m leaving, it’s not going to happen, we are going to have to vote UKIP in 2020.

  38. Caroline Langston

    This incident has already changed the World’s financial market. How can anybody possibly have thought that it was a decision that the ordinary people on the street were qualified to decide on? Even if the politicians had not based their campaigning on lies, it was still too complex.
    The wording of the referendum means that the vote is not legally binding and that should have been made clear from day one before June 23rd. The politicians have to debate & vote.
    I’ve heard brexiters say ‘we won, bremainers should stop being babies. It won’t affect the ordinary people!’
    Good grief, do they really believe that? It will change everything at the core of every day life. Food, household goods, clothes, luxuries, fuel etc etc will go up. House prices have already dropped. GBP down against USD & Euro.
    Jobs will be lost as foreign companies who wanted a foothold in Europe move across the Channel.
    It’s a total disaster and we need qualified professionals to find the way forward!

  39. Jean Doreen Lowe

    Why the hold-up and don’t tell me its political?? They can do things immediately as and when it suits them???

  40. Caluean Silviu

    Never! UK must remain in the EU. They need to renounce that part of extreme britishness that they carry and think of themselfs as European first and foremost. And all people of Europe must think the same.In order to face all types of challenges more easy, we need to stay togheter as one.

    • Anti-EU Citizen

      We need to brainwash the continent and inforce.that way of thinking on everybody.We must also ban elections because the people are not voting the way we want them to vote.Long Live USE!Death to all who don’t think like you,right?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Caluean Silviu
      The UK has been the stablest country for nigh on the last 1000 years. The EU is undemocratic, unaccountable, corrupt and arrogant – there are too many corrupt bureaucrats and too many corrupt countries for it to function well.

      The ‘Banana Federation’ that is the EU cannot compare to the UK, the EU cannot be reformed – it is time for the UK to go.

    • Peter

      @ Tarquin Farquhar

      Why then did the UK government never work better against undemocratic, unaccountable, corrupt and arrogant structures? I am sure that everybody else including the EU Commission, not only some enlighted Brexiters, is also interested in fighting unacountability and corruption.

      One of the biggest opponents to more EU democracy by e.g. increasing parliamentary rights was the British government as far as I understand.

      And is it not rather an arrogant attitude to assume that the UK style structures are supreme? The EU has structures covering all EU member societies, not only German, Maltese, Romanian or British ones. That is a great strength for a club of free democracies.

      You are very critical on EU structures which is a helpful attitude. But is it not a bit one-sided to fundamentally question the whole EU system? Are national or local UK structures free from corruption, unacountability and arrogance? They are also no direct democracies. Do you draw the same conclusion to fundamentally question and dissolve them?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      A reformed EU i.e. an EU 2.0 I could perhaps support but as has been demonstrated by the UK, the EU is too corrupt (se Transparency International for confirmation) and institutionally racist toward the UK (look at how smaller countries like Spain and Poland have more EUcrats than the bigger UK and 2nd largest EU net contributor!) for it to be changed.

      BTW, no country is corruption-free; the UK just happens to be less corrupt than the EU and most EU nations PLUS the UK has been the stablest country for c1000 years and membership of the EU is effectively, currently and actively fermenting and fomenting instability.

  41. Sandra Doyle

    should ave been done june 24th ! and cameron should ave done it ! he gave us this vote so he could stay pm !! gald he going thou he a coward

  42. Frances Green

    Yes as soon as possible.. The remaindears are running out of insults and petty name calling… Are they really basing their happiness and well being on being part of europe? We are still in europe on the map, you funny lot! Just get on with living instead of being bitter. I am not an angry nativist either mr carswell.. I’m quite happy thanks!

  43. Tony Hale

    British Democracy is under Attack.

    A properly called and held referendum returned the Democratic Will of the People which is to Leave the EU.

    There are those who are trying to skew the result by emphasising 4% when the true margin is over 1’300’000, a truly massive majority – These people are Anti-Democratic.

    There are those calling for a second referendum when what they really mean is as many referendums as it takes to get the result they want, then no more – They are the Anti-Democratic.

    There are those saying that parliament must decide as if parliament didn’t call a referendum by a margin of six to one in order to decide – The Anti-Democratic.

    There are those saying not all statements from Leave were authentic as if remain didn’t base their entire campaign on the lies of fear and as if the timid weren’t bullied by that – Anti-Democratic.

    The Anti-Democratic must not win because if we lose Democracy then we’ve lost everything.

    The Democratic Will of the People must be implemented and we must Brexit.

    If this doesn’t happen then vouch now to vote for whoever puts Brexit into their manifesto at the next General Election – Democracy Must Prevail.

    • Anti-EU Citizen

      Europhiliac elites are anti-democratic and dangerous

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Xavi Otger Domingo
      Ah, so according to you Spain is a beggar nation!

  44. ironworker

    I tend to agree with Carmeron, right after the new government will be appointed and the British Pound will be up. What’s the rush ?

  45. Zita Klovaite-Haagensen Petitions

    Lithuanians are in EU but they are only in black workers, slavers. Teachers only can clean EU toilets. It’s EU and debate… and beggars lifes. Who takes budget-money nobody knows. If you complain crime, they don’t care. Here no EU, no debate, as it is business from… to. They are selfish I’m sure seriously. They wan’t any complaints as it’s.

  46. Davide Zoran Parenti

    Britain should just decide what it wanna do one time at all and do it right now stopping to make the rest of Europe lose time

  47. David Bird

    It should have being done straight away instead of waiting and giving the remain camp chance to change the rules

  48. Goulis Stathis

    No one from the brexiters wonders why Boris Jonhson and Nigel Faratz have abandon the ship. And no one wonders why the most likekly new PM Tereza May said that Britain will not triger the artical 50 during 2016. The answere its obvious: The new PM may have to come to a new agreement with EU, in order to have access to the comon market, to pay a contribution to EU baget and allow the free movement of people. Enjoy the freedom and the humiliation.

  49. Paul Kennedy

    THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

  50. Susan Caryl Harper

    Cameron has given notice to step down, but he still holds position of Prime Minister. He should have stepped up, made a tour of EU listening, talking to heads of state, paving the way to smooth transition.
    Article 50, and leaving single market, should proceed by November at the latest.
    Uncertainty is bad for whole of EU including UK.
    Those few countries who after struggle, have freed themselves from indebtedness to IMF are in strongest position for self determination.
    Trade deals already offered to UK. The currency speculators are profiting, but real terms value of £ against dollar and euro is now undervalued. Dollar and Euro are indebted and subjects of quantitative easing. Draghi at ECB was aware of Greek deals with Goldman Sachs prior to the ransacking of Greece after joining the Euro. Italy banking system collapsing and will be using clients savings and pensions. German tax payers already stretched calling for Spain and Portugal to be in austerity measures.
    EU, especially Commission, needs radical reform, and Brexit is the trigger to allow all EU states to negotiate better democratic solutions.
    Article 50 asap but before end of 2016.

  51. Valerie Bales

    Why can’t Parliament veto the referendum, stay in Europe and do their utmost to address the problems which caused people to vote to leave.

    • Anti-EU Citizen

      Would that be democratic?That is the mindset of you europhiliacs….

    • Earl

      Valerie, Where have you been? we’ve been trying to do that for years but the E.U. just don’t listen, they have their own agenda and it’s not good. Why do you think that so many countries in the E.U. are calling for referendums?

  52. John Kelly

    Don’t bother just repeal all the laws back to 1973 and more on. Red tape gone workers rights restored and no expensive negotiations needed, if they want our stuff they will import it through Switzerland. With climate gate over we get rich again selling used windfarms to duckweed countries.

    • Caroline Langston

      What was better about workers rights in 1973 compared to now?

    • Yasmine

      and consumer rights?

  53. Brian Rogers

    Bit late to start checking the rules after the game is over! Whatever happens with Brexit the people have entrusted their future to people who lied incessantly through the campaign and in the case of Teresa May was noticeably silent throughout and now makes an appearance when a promotion is a possibility. Why are the British public so gullible that they allow government and politicians to regularly dupe them. Article 50, if ever invoked will not receive any input from Joe public it will be a Tory party decision as and when the Tory party decide if they wish to invoke it. Given that the Government is made up of more pro EU MPs than Brexit MPs invoking Article 50 any time soon seems unlikely.

  54. Peter Mitchelson

    As soon as possible then it will shut those idiots who want another referendum up

  55. Adam Grint

    It might help if we had a PM first. Then they need to organise a strong negotiating team to get us the best possible deal. Also we need to start discussions with all of the countries that have already come forward about trading with us from around the world. Exciting times ahead (depending on the deal we get) But once everything’s in place I reckon it will be triggered before Christmas

  56. Björn Eric Ingemar Grahn

    Consider how even it was they should not activate it at all. Besides there should have been a maximum age on 50 to be allowed to take part due to the effect on the voting will those over 50 not be living with for so long.

    • Paul X

      In fact why stop there, why not have a cull of those over 50 to free up more jobs for the young unemployed?

    • Yasmine

      Is that your department, Paul?

    • EU reform- proactive

      OMG! What an intelligent age <50 Nordic brainwave! Is that part of the latest Pro EU treaty in the making? Why not drop the voting age to 3 (nursery school level) – it will guarantee populist Pro EU majority to eternity! What a pro democratic example!

  57. eusebio manuel vestias pecurto vestias

    Conservative Party is an efficient machine for power looks good in fact that Gauses negotating the UK infinitely weakenend so press the button Article 50 if you are looking for the hardest hard brexit would be the choice

  58. EU Citizen

    I hate the way the media keeps saying Britain has chosen to leave, well not this Brit. What about the 48% who want remain in the EU. What about Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar who voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. No to Article 50

    • Yasmine

      They are also claiming to be mind readers and to know that people voted this way because they don’t like “immigrants”, ie movement of labour…

    • Paul X

      “immigrants” and “movement of labour” are two totally unconnected issues………fgs you really are destined for a career in Brussels with an attitude like that

    • Earl

      My area voted 70% to leave, if the Remain side had won, would you let my area and other areas where the vote was similar to leave?

    • Yasmine

      Ha ha, Paul, you would make it to the White House though how you spin things. Isn’t this what they do in the UK? They brand movement of labour as immigration but…this is, of course, not motivated by hatred…Naming the world is controlling the world, isn’t it?

  59. Brici Radu

    Europeans we should be reasonable. This brexit pissed a lot of europeans but now that young brits showed theyr interest we should not let them down! Moreover for the future together we will develop better systems better politics and so on.

  60. Anti-EU Citizen

    Europhiliac bankster eites want to destroy nations and nation states and create USA 2.0 in Europe.NEVER!

  61. Audrey Ellis

    Don’t be hasty , nothing is accomplished when rushing into things, Listen to debates , see how the land lies , you never know what lies around the corner . No rush for any thing

    • David jocelyn

      Audrey , what do you think we have been doing for 3 months. DEBATING I would humbly suggest. At the end of debates you have a vote .we had one , you don’t get to debate it again because you don’t like the result. What part of this well tried and accepted procedure do you not understand.

  62. Joao Yohanan

    My friends, let s do a civilize divorce so we both can go on with our lifes and maybe meet some other people. :)
    Just select the deal. You have Norway model or Swiss model. They are already drawn.
    Why should you be any different? Do you also automatically assume you are better then this countries in all that might and arrogant stance that UK is appearing to have?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Joao Yohanan
      Hmm, I prefer the Lichtenstein model – free access to the EFTA and full control of EU immigration.

  63. Roger Pyne

    NOW we are gonna be fcuk’d by this so let’s get it done now, I can then look extremely snug in my “don’t blame me I voted remain” t shirt

  64. Tracey Stevens

    I want May in. I want a deal on the table. I want honesty, no bull and then I’d like a referendum where we decide whether we accept the deal or remain

    • Yasmine

      Probably, this is what is going to happen. But whatever deal you get is not going to be as good as being a member and having voting rights in the parliament and propose legislation. It is a pointless exercise for me.

  65. Paul Young

    asap and no deal on number of immigrants. We control the figures and ballocks to this single market bullshit

  66. David jocelyn

    We had a referendum to decide on a course of action. The understanding is and always has been that a majority decision is democratic. If, as many who voted to remain believe, this is not the case , then what was the point of spending so much money and energy for nothing. To prevaricate and procrastinate now is extremely dangerous and an attempt to delay action in the hope that the majority will have a change of heart will only depress an already apathetic electorate opening the door to extremists. It needs to be settled now and ignoring a majority could lead to catastrophe.

  67. David jocelyn

    We had the debate before the vote, calling for a debate now is ludicrous

  68. Adam Chapman

    I think we should get Chilcott to organise the Brexit. Should give us about 10 years :)

  69. Peter

    Tory brexit left-overs, bankster Leadsom and propagandist Gove, are basically finished, leaving only remain bankster May who will continue Cameron’s gambling. Feel really sorry for all progressive remainers!

  70. Steve Briggs

    The day after we know what is going to happen next . The referendum should never of been called untill the outers had a exit strategy. The brexit have only focused on the vote and zero idea of the consequences or how to move forward. They may feel that they have escaped Alcatraz but now they are in the bay of san Francisco and being washed out into the Pacific ocean.

  71. Winston Melbourne

    why should the uk invoke article 50 not all of us want to leave and in fact if you where to ask today them the vote would be for in also it’s a non bidding vote there are many steps to go before that there is no plans for us to leave nothing at all nothing best take it slow

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Winston Melbourne
      Hmmm, NOT a fan of democracy then?

  72. Anti-EU Citizen

    People of Europe,vote for your eurosceptic parties in your countries in next elections and vote en masse!Let’s.destroy this European.Union that wants.to.crush your nation states and destroy your culture,language.and herritage…. Let’s kill this globalist bankster monster together!!!

  73. Ppm

    Early morning after referendum result.

  74. Ann Connolly

    Already the effects of Brexit is hitting hard people not able to get their money today from 3 big institutes that’s how it started here

  75. Karen Clayton

    We want article 50 triggered now, the remain lost, they need to grow up and stop being brats. The vote was cast live with the result. You want to remain go live in the eu.

  76. Robin Tyler

    The EU referendum result was:
    1) influenced by false promises and lies and reckless misleading spin
    2) the two main leaders of Brexit are not even prepared to take the responsibility and lead the way, they both abandon ship so why shouldn’t we abandon Brexit?
    3) if we invoke article 50 we would more than likely be doing this after a change of sentiment after the consequences begin to become apparent and the majority now would rather remain
    4) A large proportion of the Brexit vote had little to do with EU issues and more home issues and this needs to be addressed and listened to by uk parliament
    5) taking us out of the EU will cause greater division and complicate and exasperate racial and cultural feelings, when this country has become a richer place due to diverse cultures
    6) Brexit will effect 5% of the population that are EU migrants and have been working here for years contributing to the growth of the economy, you are discriminating against these people who have no say
    7) There are 1.2 million Brits who have been living in the EU for years and may no longer be able to enjoy the same benefits they enjoyed as if they lived in the UK yet they had no say in the matter
    8) any deals with the EU after article 50 has been invoked would more than likely be costly, we would be at the mercy of the EU and have no say in matters
    9) The economy is and will take a downturn causing higher prices, higher costs and higher unemployment
    10) There will be a rise in illegal immigrants entering the UK as France moves its borders back to Uk soil and removes its fences
    Is this what people really want? Cameron may have shot himself in the foot but do we have to do the same? A voice of discontent has been heard and changes will need to be made both in our home politics and within the EU as if the voice is not heard and acted upon there will be greater division which is not good for anyone.
    So the conclusion is a difficult one as I would say do not invoke article 50 but if is to be done then it should not be rushed as there is much to put in place, but uncertainty by not invoking article 50 is not a good think for the UK nor the patience of the EU economy which quiete rightly wants to minimise the impact of the Brexit and hold together the rest of the EU

    • Caroline Langston

      Very will said Robin.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Robin Tyler
      1) Yes the Bremainiacs lied, lied , lied!
      2) There are No 2 main leaders of Bremain!
      3) If Article 50 is triggered next year the EU will be in greater strife and more brits will agree with the Brexiteers.
      4) Many Bremainiacs voted out of fear and were unaware of the corruption and unaccountability epidemic in the EU.
      5) Keeping us in the EU has already increased the number of racist organisations in the UK – I should know as a non-white the last 20 years remind me of the times when the NF used to compete in UK elections.
      6) Brexit will effect the 5% foreigners and the 95% general population.
      7) Countries like Spain and Portugal actively canvas for UK OAPs to prop up their febrile economies – I’m sure Spain and Portugal would not want to see a further drop in their GDPs.
      8) If the UK adopted WTO tariffs we would save money as-is. In the meantime, the UK can expedite trade treaties with Austrlia, NZ, China. India, Malyasia, |Indonesia, South Korea – the LIST is growing…
      9) Prices will take a down turn but when trade deals with Australia, NZ etc come into effect food and commodities prices WILL drop!
      10) When an illegal immigrant arrives in the UK via plane from the EU, same is returned back to the offending EU nation. After leaving the EU, the same [an international obligation BTW] will be extended to illegal immigrants who arrive by boat or train.

      Sorry Robin – You HAD to be corrected!

    • Peter

      @ Tarquin Farquhar

      Sorry to interrupt your (B)rag-sitter dreamworld, but shouldn’t we better start to consider some nasty reality like frozen investment and real estate trade, crashed consumer trust and currency, announcements of enlarging the enormous British state debt among others by huge military investment, etc.?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      1…Markets can go up as well as down.
      2…The FTSE 100 is higher than its pre-Brexit figures.
      3…Currency devaluation reduces debt.
      4…Higher interest rates reduces debt.
      5…Importing less from the rump-EU reduces debt.

      What’s you point old bean?

    • Peter

      So you don’t see any problems for British labour markets, public over-indebtedness and with military build-up? Isn’t it rather likely that interest rates will be cut in order to stimulate investment? Importing less will raise many prices so that for many people real wages will drop without unlikely pursuant pay rises.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      Labour problems? Yes, for the short term perhaps?

      Military build-up? If war breaks out – the EU is safe on its island – its the Eastern EU countries that will have a problem.

      Interest rate reduction likely? Yes, perhaps?

      Importing less from the EU will NOT necessarily raise prices, especially with regard to food imports.

      UK wages have been dropping in real-terms in the UK for the last decade because of EU foreigner immigration into the UK and wage compression thereafter.

    • Maia Alexandrova

      Tarquin Farquhar, let’s see how exactly the minimum wage has dropped in the last decade due to EU workers:

      2006 – £5.35 per hour;
      2016 – £7.20 per hour.

      In the opposite world the opposite maths rules apply. So yes, in your contrived fantasy world it has dropped, but in the real world it has actually increased.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Maia Alexandrova
      Please get informed before posting as you will reduce the likelihood of you appearing foolish:

      http://www.stevenwoolfe.uk/news–press/bank-of-england-research-finally-accepts-immigration-causes-lower-wages

      or

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3079786/Gloomy-Bank-England-downgrades-growth-forecast-Carney-signals-rates-rise-year.html

      or

      http://order-order.com/2016/03/03/rose-wages-will-rise-if-britain-leaves-eu/

      Hmmm, you seem to be mixing fantasy with reality, have you been on the wacky baccy?

      Re the forum question, the UK should invoke Article 50 WHEN it wants and NOT before!

  77. fpav

    Excepting that Chilcot’s is reporting on ‘history’ and Brexit is the present, there is a shared pattern: politicians and populists misleading the public. This commonality is not unique to the UK: the political classes in most countries do not promote a country’s wellbeing in the spirit of public service but rather seek the highest yield in the next round of polls. I am married to an Englishman, and have great affection for his country. But I think reflection and reconsidering is necessary. A country’s future at stake, and a region’s; this is not an idle game of Russion roulette.

    • Anti-EU Citizen

      I’m sure that if the Remain camp won you would use the same arguments for a new referendum…. NOT!

  78. Anti-EU Citizen

    This Brexit refendum has shown the true face of the so called neoliberal. The so called left is in bed with the whole establishment and elites and are out to create a dictatorial state of dumb people who will vote for them in the so called elections.If the people don’t vote the way they want them to vote that the people are the problem and not the elites…

    • György

      What is dictatorial about the EU (about 27 other countries and their citizens)? All EU officials are either elected or appointed by the elected much like the entire class of British civil servants , all the millions of them

  79. Maia Alexandrova

    They don’t have the guts to do it…

    They have seen it is more than just a simple majority of leave votes (as tiny as it is)… The question is how to balance the resounding democratic wish of two British nations against the resounding democratic wish of the other two, when they are obviously in the two opposite extremes?

    Each British nation wants its voice to be heard. None of them has a priority over the other. Which decision will reconcile them all? In any way, the UK is split in the middle and this will continue, no matter whether they invoke Article 50 now, or not. This is why it seems to me that another referendum is the only way to correct the situation. If the outcome from it is “leave”, then there should be no more doubts and Article 50 invoked immediately, while Scotland and Northern Ireland left to secede from the UK through their own referendums. If the “remain” votes are a majority this time, then no Article 50 should be invoked, but more efforts made to resolve the issues the Brexiters are complaining about, even though EU is not the cause of most of these issues. This seems the only reasonable course of action to get some clarity on what is the right thing to do in order to keep Britain united and prevent it from breaking up, but I think it will probably not happen. Instead, it is likely that the new Prime Minister will act on the current results of the referendum and apply for a divorce from the EU after the longest possible delay. On that day also the pound will fall further and I wouldn’t be surprised to see £1 = €1. Scotland and Northern Ireland will eventually break free from the UK (they also have a democratic will that needs to be respected).

    • Yasmine

      Part of the reason why Scotland voted to stay in the UK was so that it continues being an EU member, so now the Scots have obviously been duped. I appreciate Spain’s reservations about admitting a member that has declared independence unilaterally, but…, allegiance to the EU and the will to work for the European dream should take precedence over local disputes, esp. when the reason for the independence is EU membership.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Maia Alexandrova
      FYI, you don’t appear to understand much about the UK.

      Britain is NOT the UK – the UK is more than Britain!

      All of the UK countries decided on exiting the EU and NOT exiting the UK – your extrapolation is both erroneous and invalid.

    • Maia Alexandrova

      Tarquin Farquhar, why are you lying? Only England and Wales voted to leave the EU. Scotland and Northern Ireland’s choice was decisively in the opposite direction. For this reason they want to find their own way to maintain closer ties with EU, whatever it takes – even independence from UK, if necessary. You seem to be imagining things! No one has yet voted to leave the UK, but they might in future, if there is no other option for them. The Scottish have realised that in 2014 they were duped by the Westminster government to vote to stay in the UK on the premises that this would guarantee their place in the EU. That promise has now been broken. For this reason, if article 50 is invoked, Scotland will not just sit and do nothing, nor will Northern Ireland. You may be seeing heaven and smiling angels through your pink glasses, but reality is different.

    • Danny Boy

      @ Maia
      Let me tell you a few facts about the Scots as you obviously have never met one.They can be bigoted,narrow minded and they’re quite simply jealous of their more successful southern neighbours.
      But there’s one thing their not, they are not stupid,if it ever came to a second referendum there is no way they would ever vote to split from the most solid and stable nation in Europe.Truth be known they have no more love for the E.U than the rest of the U.K,they only voted to stay in because they knew the English would vote to leave.

    • Yasmine

      Whoa! Another mind reader! Extremely charismatic people on this debate.

  80. Yasmine

    Clearly, whenever it is ready. It is down the country to give notice to leave the EU and not anyone else to decide it for it. My view, from what I have seen so far, is that Brexit already is off the cards. Mr Cameron’s games with Boris have backfired on them both.

    • Yasmine

      The referendum, as others here have pointed out, was not legally binding and it is down to the country itself to decide what it is going to do with the results.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Yasmine
      All of the UK countries decided on exiting the EU and NOT exiting the UK – your extrapolation is both erroneous and invalid.

  81. cathernine benning

    What the majority of British people who voted for Brexit must do, is, call for a no confidence vote against your MP, if they intend to push for a vote to stay in the EU. You must demand your MP reveals in all local newspapers what they voted for in the Referendum and if they intend to hold up our departure from this cretinous group of twisters by pressing to end our democracy by voting against it in Parliament..

    Demand only an MP who is for OUT and intends to promote a quick exit. And only vote for such a person who openly will accept scrutiny.. Bring down the government by your rightful vote of no confidence if they refuse to move Brexit way forward.

    Theresa May is the worst possible HS in decades. And she is the lead for our new PM. She held up the investigation for at least a decade of charges against hundreds of Asian men who were raping and abusing white female children in Rotherham for fear of being see as ra ci st. Additionally she refuses to honestly reveal how many immigrants are and were entering our country from both inside and outside Europe. She has allowed our citizens to be extradited to the USA, a country with the death penalty, for crimes that would not be considered threatening at home. Example, internet hacking by mentally ill individuals. .

    And most of all, she is a Remainer, not, a Brexiteer. According to reports she has been planning with Richard Branson, who is not domiciled in the UK, to block the Brexit process and his money is to aid this event.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/theresa-may-richard-branson-brexit-meeting-over-fears-eu-referendum-a7121016.html

    The absolute evil of these piss artists to divert the course of the will of the country. He should get his arse back to knicker Island and play his finger games at will there. He is a tax dodger, which goes to show what these remain bunch really are. Wags and louts who steal from their country via tax dodges.

    All these fiddlers should have their assets in lien. Including the Blair traitor. All his funds should be seconded to pay the British soldiers families who lost their sons and daughters in that illegal war. Not only his assets but the assets of his wife and children as he fiddled them to the lot of tem in the same way Philip Green did.

    Blairs money is our money. He murdered for a Judas pay off from Bush and his cronies.

    They are Bilderbergers and the EU is bleeding us all dry to pump up those same criminals in order to bring about medieval style serfdom. The way they have in Greece.

    those Remainers making threats better beware if they are going to play with the rightful vote of our nation. And as a PS a lot of Scots did not vote to remain. Are they calling for them to lose their vote because they decided they wanted to shove of the shackles of Westminster only to give it to the ghosts of Brussels? That is what their SNP cheap looking chick is after. Like the Kinnocks she wants to glean their bribes and make a fortune for herself.

  82. martijn berk

    I think they’ll not leave – the British see what’s happening when they leave and on some way will stay in the EU ……….

  83. Earl

    Is Britain a democracy or not?
    We’ve just had a referendum in which we were promised that “whatever the result it would be honoured” just because the margin between the “Leave” and “Remain” votes was small, this doesn’t mean that the results shouldn’t be accepted. Right from the start both sides were neck and neck, had the results been reversed, would the “Remain” side be jumping up and down calling for second referendum because the margin was small? NO I think not. It never was a best of three referendum. This is exactly what the E.U. do, if they don’t get the results they want, the engineer it until they do or just ignore it, and that’s NOT democracy.
    The E.U. have stated quite clearly that they will not negotiate terms until we invoke article 50, so what’s the point in delaying? It shouldn’t take months and months for ministers to decide what they want and get on with it, unless they think of course that they scupper the results as the E.U. would.
    Democracy is the greatest gift that any country could have, if you hadn’t had democracy you wouldn’t have had a referendum in the first place, don’t belittle it.
    Let’s get on with it and invoke article 50 NOW.

    • Peter

      That’s exactly what Juncker asked the British ‘democrats’ for. Maybe it’s rather a question whether the UK is still a democracy than that the EU is…

      This ‘dictatorship’ or ‘Soviet union’ claim is the biggest fairy tale I’ve heard in recent years politics. People are not stupid. Keep your creativity for entaining your children or friends, not to fool the public!

  84. Caroline Langston

    Catherine Benning, thank you for your replies. They were very interesting and I did look at your links.
    Regarding the subject of the article 50, I point out that there are lots of legal minds looking at the situation and they appear to have different opinions.

    London law firm Mischon de Reya is acting for a group of business people and academics who say it would be unlawful for a prime minister to invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty without a full debate and vote in Parliament.

    Moving on, regarding Boris’s wife, I specified her career – you thought it unnecessary, however it did ensure that we are talking about the same person. You stated her ancestry, however she is still British.
    There are lots of people who are British, despite their ancestry.

    I am enjoying the debate but I felt your choice of vocabulary a little unnecessary ‘idiotic repetitive question’ and ‘clownish remarks’.

    Happy to debate as I say but there is so much information, misinformation & opinion on the internet that it becomes very hard to filter.
    Also opinions change – so to quote Boris was pro EU would be correct as would Boris was anti EU. You would need to qualify these facts with a date.

    • Earl

      Catherine.
      As I understand it, it’s also unlawful for an elected democratic Government to transfer their powers to others, if that were not so, what point would there be in having elections?

    • catherine benning

      Caroline Langston

      Don’t play the leftie Hampstead game with me. It doesn’t wash. What you quite clearly wrote was Boris Johnson was/is a racist. I replied he was not a racist, he had married an Indian woman. Race is not connected to nationalism. It is genetic, not something you acquire. The fact you would raise it shows your lack of understanding of the English language and its meaning.

      Her race is not connected to her job. Had Boris been, as you claim racist, he would not have chosen an immigrant with Indian heritage for his wife and mother of his children. Even though she may have taken on British nationality.

      Mishcon de Reya is primarily a divorce firm, remember Diana, they were her lawyers and what a bad job they did on her behalf. £17 million from a man who has endless undeclared wealth. They should hang their heads in shame. Whoever has hired this firm is simply in line to be fleeced and it is a political delay tactic not worthy of a British practice law firm. Akin to the Chilcot report and the lawyers they had bleeding us dry, it will take seven years for any resolution. It is a political game, and it is going to be at the Tax payers expense. Rather than feeding the starving with our money, fat cat lawyers, who want to take this up for idiotic PR to plug their name, and to do the will of the few, who are in for making vast sums of money from being part of the EU. And that gravy train is too good for them to pass up.

      Your obvious crap ‘written to me’ is filled with patronising side talk to make an effort of moving the central point to the periphery. You are stuck head first in the political correctness money maker you perpetuate. I am not in for swallowing it, and never have been. I know waffle when I see it.

      If you don’t like my vocabulary then don’t write a load of bull on this site to try and sell your wares here. Take it to the WI and sit there with tea and cakes spilling out to unsuspecting cronies.

      And as far as any man or woman changing their minds over issues, when the truth finally outs, then a person who would continue to hang on to delusional beliefs, as you are, must, at some point realise they have no moral right to use political propaganda to lead anyone up the garden path. What is your benefit from doing this? A great many people on this website, akin to Boris, changed their mind over their belief in what was and is good for their country. And thank goodness they did and do. Otherwise we would still be with the likes of Hitler.

  85. catherine benning

    @ Earl:

    Without doubt you have the grasp of the duplicity of this act. Every one of them should be thrown out of the political nest on the grounds of no confidence.

  86. Caroline Langston

    Catherine Benning, I hadn’t realised that this site is only for people that think the same way you do. i do apologise for offending you.
    However at no stage did I say, or think that Boris is racist. That was a side line that you went down & I simply replied.

    Unfortunately for you, in Britain, people are allowed to have & express their opinions even when they don’t match yours.

  87. Caroline Langston

    One last point Catherine Benning. Re your comment on 5th July, to somebody other than me. Expats that have not voted in the UK in the last 15 years were not allowed to cast a vote. That also excludes young people who came of age while living abroad.

    • catherine benning

      THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

  88. Caroline Langston

    Catherine Benning,
    Clearly I don’t keep up, you are right, I was not aware of the Nigerian visitors coming to vote.
    Would you like to do away with the commonwealth too?
    As for the young people that I pointed out that were not able to vote, I didn’t say that they never lived in UK, you love to jump to conclusions and throw accusations & insults.
    I am not an ‘angry’ remainer I am disappointed and I am truly worried for the future of Britain, for my children & grandchildren.
    Whether you like it or not, there is a number of people who voted out of Europe having been misled by a certain message on the side of a certain bus. Having found out that they were misled, they regret their vote.
    I wonder what you would be saying & doing if the narrow margin had been the other way. I suggest that you would feel as disappointed as I am.
    I didn’t come on this site to fight or to force my will on others, I simply joined in the debate.
    Finally, you refer to the EU as a ‘war creating pit’. I on the other hand believe that it has prevented war by its existence.
    You seem a very bitter, angry person and I’m not interested in debating this anymore.

    • Yasmine

      THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED BY MODERATORS FOR BREACHING OUR CODE OF CONDUCT. REPLIES MAY ALSO BE REMOVED.

    • catherine benning

      Caroline Langston:

      The bus had little or no effect on the millions of people who voted OUT. They voted out in the main because of mass immigration, which is changing our social cohesion dramatically, to the point where thousands are fleeing our country only to be replaced by millions of anti Western individuals hell bent on transforming our daily lives to something medieval. And it is taking place across each and every European state. Possibly leading to eventual civil war. I feel this is of far more concern than a bus that explains how much we give the EU annually for deciding on how we should live our daily lives.

      NATO is the organisation that is supposedly the European and Western peace keepers. This is a self perpetuating organisation who has an interest in pumping up the protection racket, examples of which we are seeing daily on our news programmes. They, also are into the business of promoting war. Europe and its EU leaders are in the front line of those present talks and are seemingly in collusion with the premis.

      The EU promoted and backed the US takeover and coup in the Ukraine. Remember, Victoria Newland, with her famous, F the EU speech. The vocabulary of the leaders you support should indeed be of great concern to you.

      The British people were not misled by the Leave campaign, in fact they did not spill the real beans about how the UK is being lead by the nose is this wayward club. When you see those children and grandchildren of yours, both male and female, being called up to fight for ‘freedom’ on the Russian front, I wonder how you will love being a member of the EU.

      Don’t believe that either. Well, I can bring a horse to water but I can’t make it drink. Just take a minute to reflect on your disappointment at the Leave result when you see the performance of Europe and its following of the NATO war machine over the next 2 years.

      However, that written, what is it you think you are going to benefit from remaining as a part of the EU? Lay it out. What did the Remain group instil in you that makes you feel we British are better off in the EU. Here are a few reasons I disagree with your analysis.

      But first here is the legal challenge you felt was going to repeal the referenda result.

      http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21701695-despite-claims-some-lawyers-act-parliament-not-needed-invoke-article-50-who

      Here is the answer in the Lords to that suggestion.

      No rerun of the referendum
      Posted on July 8, 2016 by Lord Norton

      _39082269_lordsstill_300I spoke in two debates in the Lords this week following the EU referendum on 23 June. One point was common to both speeches. On Tuesday and Wednesday, we had a debate on the outcome of the referendum. I was speaker number 105, out of 115, but I like to think I still had something to add to the debate. I was at least the only speaker to cite Anthony Downs, A. V. Dicey, and the ruling of the Chairman of Ways and Means, Sir Robert Grant-Ferris, on 29 February 1972. In the speech, I developed three themes, on the referendum campaign, the referendum result, and whether primary legislation was necessary to trigger a notification under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.

      The point I made about the referendum was that while it may not be binding, in that there is no statutory obligation on government to trigger an Article 50 notification, it is misleading to refer to it as advisory. During the course of the debate, some peers were arguing that as it was advisory, and as only a minority of the total electorate had voted for the UK to leave the EU, we should consider ignoring the result or hold a second referendum. I was keen to knock this idea on the head. We invited electors to vote on whether to remain in or to leave the EU. The majority who voted went for the leave option. That is a result which there is no legal obligation to fulfil, but where there is clearly a political obligation. The distinction is one recognised by Dicey. We cannot apply rules retrospectively. If we wanted a threshold requirement, we needed to stipulate that at the time. I raised the issue of a threshold on second reading of the EU Referendum Bill, but there appeared no appetite to pursue it. We therefore were left in a situation where a simple majority suffices. That may not be desirable, but it is the reality.

      I returned to the point the following day, when Baroness King of Bow (Oona King) had a question for short debate, asking the Government whether it had made an assessment of the case for a second referendum on membership of the EU. She said she was making the case for a later referendum once the terms of exit were known, but her argument was based on the outcome of last month’s referendum, in effect arguing that the electors had got it wrong. In my short speech (given the number of speakers, we only had three minutes each), I reprised various of the points I made the previous day, but stressed that rerunning the referendum would convey the impression that the political class was not prepared to accept what the electors had decided. That would undermine trust in the political process when that trust is already fragile.

      There may be a case for a referendum later when the terms are known (though there is a debate to be had as to what the question would be, and whether a binary question would suffice), but to challenge the result of last month’s referendum is naïve and dangerously so. We may not like it, but we have the result and we have to stick to the rules as they existed and were understood by the electors.

      Now here is some information that may broaden your horizons.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSjyCXDKbc

      Some of the the reasons

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k8pez04KPw

    • Semni Istiqlal

      @Catherine Benning
      What you are doing there is a Gish Gallop of sorts filled with conspiracy theory.

      You are aware of what conspiracy theory is and why it’s mostly bunk right?

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Caroline Langston
      The EU has been the prime villain/instigator in European wars:

      Croatia/Kosovo
      and
      Ukraine

      spring to mind.

      PS: Don’t worry about your offspring – the UK will do fine and dandy after a short hiatus.

    • Peter

      @ Tarquin Farquhar

      Sure, this terrible EU warmongering against peaceful democrats Putin and Milosevich with their strict respect for human rights caused thousands of dead. What have we all been blinded by mid-night sun in recent years!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      My points stand.

    • Peter

      You didn’t follow developments leading to Yugoslavia/Ukraine wars to closely, did you? What about Serbian nationalism in the first case and ‘Russian worldism’ in the second? Non-existent? Was it the EC/EU that instigated violence there? There were countless effords from EU-side to stop those wars!

      If you want to construct any Western politicians ‘instigation’, you could maybe blame former German foreign minister Genscher in case of Croatia and the US presidents in case of Kossovo (were they errected Clinton-statues in gratitude) and Ukraine that where maybe a bit quick in supporting pro-Western movements there. But certainly not the EU.

      EU spoke out in favor of the anti-corruption revolution in Ukraine only after it happened, just hours earlier there was the EU supported mediation of conflict parties. War was not only instigated but directly and admittedly led by Putin’s green men conquering Crimea and his attack dog Mr Girkin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_(officer)) and his friends in Donbas, respectively …

      Blame the EU for its own flaws, not for those of others.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      I blame the EU when it deserves to be blamed – the EU tried to impinge on the Russian sphere of influence in Yugoslavia and Ukraine and the BIG BEAR got angry.

      These are the facts. Read them, understand them contemplate them and move on.

      The EU is not perfect and its origins are well founded and well respected. BUT too many faceless bureaucrats make too many decisions too quickly ==> corruption!

    • Peter

      @ Tarquin Farquhar

      Since decades, the Kremlin is rather a teddy bear sucking European honey-money. He will not be interested in a stopped flow. Yugoslavia was never part of the Warsaw pact and Kyiv declared independence from the Kremlin sphere of influence more than a generation ago. Common orthodoxy and historical bonds are rather distant folklore as Serbian and Ukrainian elites as youths are strongly pro-European expecting wealth and rule of law in contrast to Russian offers. It should be the people that decide their own future, not any distant ruler of another state.

      The British government is just about to distance itself from Brussels, becoming more dependant on Washington crusaders. It is free to decide so. Why should Ukrainians not have the same right to distance themselves further from a questionable regime that incites war on its ground? There can be no Kremlin veto right in any other souvereign state.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      FYI:

      Russia will soon be food-independent and is already energy-independent.

      It does NOT need the EU and any influence the EU had on Russia is rapidly diminishing.

      Yugoslavia, contained Serbia – Russian blood brothers and natural allies; the EU pressured and enticed Serbia and correspondingly annoyed Russia.

      Putin had told the EU to stay away from Ukraine but the EU I mean Germany and France conspired, contrived and vied otherwise. The Ukrainians do deserve better but not if it precipitates WW3.

    • Peter

      @Tarquin
      Mediation prevented some full-scale Georgia-like invasion – Putin had announced already how many hours his army would need to reach Kyiv. Don’t want to know what would have been the outcome, if the ‘mediation’ would have been between the warmongering Budapest parties directly. I think, French-German non-appeasement dialogue is a much safer way to prevent WW3 than US style military threats.
      ‘Blood brothers’ and ‘native allies’ is something for 19th century fairy tales. Don’t believe all that propaganda.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Lord Peter
      The EU’s intervention in Ukraine was NOT appeasement and drew the world closer the WW3.

    • Peter

      @Tarquin Farquhar
      Wrong. Maybe US-UK driven NATO games do, Minsk obligations do the opposite!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Peter
      I am sorry Peter, but Germany/EUs intervention in Ukraine caused a war still going to this day and moved us all one step closer to WW3.

      Please try not to stifle the truth, you are not in Germany now.

      ;)

    • Peter

      @Tarquin Farquhar
      This daily Donbas murder madness is very, very sad as all killings are. There should be more effords to immediately stop it. But there is no almighty superpower that would be able to enforce that. Let’s hope that future OSCE forces will be accepted by the separatists there soon.

  89. EUSSR

    Before March 31st 2017.
    As they’re changing the rules to QMV would need majority of member states to agree to brexit

    • Peter

      Elitist UKSSR does not have to hide here. Sometimes you would think British politicians took over Indian caste system somewhen back in colonial times…

  90. Semni Istiqlal

    To give you a bit of context to what I am about to say, I voted to remain. At least, I would have if I had been allowed to (but that’s neither here nor there right now).

    They should have invoked art.50 the morning after the referendum. They are stalling and all this is doing is prolonging the economic grief that we are all experiencing.

    On the other hand the remain voter in me wants them to never invoke art.50 and at some point in the near future say “We aren’t going to leave, this was all a terrible idea.”

    • Peter

      You realize that the author wants to discredit European cooperations by making it appear as some typical CIA putsch disempowerment, don’t you? If the CIA had some substantial influence on EU history, it did at least one good piece of work.

      In my view, the EU is a rather well-balanced first step towards a more legitimate western government – with only the sad Euro birth defect of missing fiscal union (which everybody knew from the start…). Some EU-style Atlantic Union replacing our present backroom G7-IWF-OECD-NATO-etc circus would be very welcome. I really hope the British or English will return one day to the EU.

    • Adrian

      Spare us of your conspiracy crackpottery, Catherine.
      Might as well quote Alex Jones next because this is the level your “sources” have reached in the last year.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Catherine Benning
      Very frightening article!

  91. Adrian

    The soon to be disunited kingdom should invoke art 50 asap so the EU can crush those arrogant racist islanders.

    No compromise.
    You want your miserable “free trade” you play by OUR rules.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Adrian
      In that case we won’t play – we’ll trade with the other 93% of the world.

    • catherine benning

      Adrian:

      I feel it is the EU who will be playing by our rules. We are free of EU domination, we do not have to invoke Article 50 to make that so.

      What is being called for by the British people is, for every EU flag and every EU banner, passport and visual connection to it is removed at once from our lives. The sooner you get used to the idea that our country is not part of your club the better it will be for the EU and all of us actually.

      And as far as conspiracy crackpotism, put up the version you feel quells my argument. Debate and back your debate up with links that support your views.. Tell it as you believe it is. I have a very open mind to all suggestions. Then, when you can do that to a satisfactory level, you can call me anything you want. And once you have proved to me and the world, that I am mistaken in my assumptions, I will grovel at your feet in homage…….

      As, unlike you, I wish my findings were indeed wrong. The truth is not easy to swallow. Betrayal is hard to take. I would rather I was humiliated on this or any stage, than feel the horror of what I presently am aware of. Who was it that said, ignorance is bliss? Whoever they were, they were so right.

      Here is a speech explaining what you refuse to even contemplate.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKjTPPcOdQ

    • Adrian

      Yes trade with “the world” Tarquin.
      The same world who told you not to leave. You have no idea the disaster you caused world wide.

      @catherine:
      Spare me your tory propaganda. We’ll see who plays by whose rules. The EU has “ways” to make you bend.

      The delusions and arrogance of brits is beyond meassure.
      Your central bank just flushed 44 trillion dollars to keep the pounding from dropping like a rock.

      And the best is yet to come.
      And the irony? The EU will come out stronger.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Adrian
      Hi, would you please kindly re-phrase your post – I saw many English words that seemed to lack coherence and sensibility.

      Might I suggest that you try to be less emotional when you post as your command of the English language is, well less than commanding.

      Toodle pip old bean.

    • Duncan

      Racist islanders? Wow, so I’m a racist because I live in the UK? It takes a significant level of ignorance to be able to pigeonhole 65million people as racist based on where they live/were born! Do you even understand the concept of discrimination?

  92. kevin

    Cameron said he would invoke article 50 the day after the referendum . He then basically said the next PM can do it as I’m quitting in September . Sod him ,why is the will of the British people being delayed while the conservative party sorts out internal problems .
    The vote was to leave the EU , it is the responsibility of the PM whoever it is to start the process immediately .
    Personally I would just repeal the 1972 communities act and we are out .As we have no say in the EU after invoking article 50 why hang about .

    • catherine benning

      Kevin:

      As you will see from today’s news, the new Prime Minister, Theresa May, will be in place within the next two weeks. Just as I predicted. Then, six months in, or even before, will be a GE in order to give a mandate for that new PM’s policies.

      And unless the opposition go ahead and call a leader, and abide by the will of their membership, they will be a split party. Labour will remain the party of its full membership, who vote in that decision, and the rest, a group of Blairites who are really Tory lites, and of no use to any working people, will be in too much of a mess to stand as a credible alternative. Although, you never know…. But as they have a platform on which they continue to grasp onto, promoting just what the public reject, one of remaining in the EU by hook or by crook and the continuing of an open door immigration policy, they will die a death. The opposition leader they have announced to challenge the present decent man, is a squeaky voiced cartoon character. A Blairite, who openly has a wife. If it wasn’t so terribly sad, it would be very comic.

    • catherine benning

      Adrian:

      You are barking up the wrong tree if you feel the British public, or, indeed I, will shake at the knees to your panic stricken threats.

      You only need to use threats when you have lost an argument or debate. A bit like the Godfather movie. Or, shall we say Nazi Germany. And just to put you straight, I am not a Tory. If there was a GE in the UK today I would back Jeremy Corbyn. Funny as that may appear. Of course, he would have to follow his genuine instincts of being out of Europe, but that is another matter.

      In fact, truth is, I am not a party animal. I vote where I feel I will benefit most at any given time. So, a loyal slave to a rigid platform is not something I adhere to. Unless that platform will suit me down to the ground. Which none of them can.

      You have lost, and you are turning in circles. We will fire our Canadian Bank of England governor, as he is anti GB.We will deal with any and all financial debt pushers and rid ourselves of the noose you have tried to place around our necks. And we will free ourselves of control from the two faced bent club you have promoted around us. The public in the UK are always right on their call in democracy. And democracy gives them that option. You are anti democratic and therefore, anti public will. Whilst you lean into their taxation money bags to steal their well fought for rights using their capital to do it.

      Come November, once Trump is President of your so called free world, you will wish to God you had kept your mind on what was and is good for Europe under its own steam. And that is coming from an anti right wing thinker. However, my mind is clear enough to see that what is being offered as an alternative, that of the so called Democrat, who is more right wing than Attila the Hun. Or, under the more apt nickname, Flagellum Dei.

      Best wishes.

    • Adrian

      @catherine spare us your long tirades of utter idiocy.
      “Trump as president” ?
      You lot are more demented than i thought.

      If you eant your dump to become Somalia, fine.
      But don’t everyone is suicidal and crazy like you.

    • Phil Watson

      @Kevin, the marvellously obvious is the truth. Joining the EU was an act of treason, as proven by the marvellous work of Albert Burgess at the English Constitution Group. https://www.facebook.com/ECGenglishconstitutiongroup/videos. The act can be repealed as it is what is called ‘bad law’ no bad law can remain it can be repealed in a few weeks, as the ECG can explain for those that want to know. Repeal it, and the UK can leave. No strings attached.

  93. Peter

    Let’s sum it up: Ms May may maybe declare exit as soon as next May when she finally has the backing of her Punch-and-Judy party – maybe. What’s going on there in Westminster?

  94. Tarquin Farquhar

    @Catherine Benning
    Thanks very much – excellent post!

    Interesting though how people spout their opinion without recourse to the facts as you’ve cited.

  95. Patricio

    as soon as possible, art.º 50

  96. catherine benning

    @ Adrian:

    As I have written before and often. What you have written is not debate. It is ignorance, as youtube covers reality on the one hand, as in political debates taking place live, making them fact. It allows all aspects of projection, whether which is correct makes no difference, the human need for all aspects of possibility brings about analysis, and from that we learn.

    Because you cannot find an acceptable argument for debate is not the fault of youtube, it is the fault of your denial to explore alternative views. You are stuck in the hamster ball. Moving around a room enclosed, unable to participate in that you can see but not feel.

    If you took the time, you will see the youtube link is of live political debate. Not fake indoctrination you prefer to absorb. The other is The Huffington Post. Only a fool would reject transcripts made short.

    Stay in your bubble. Clearly it must suit you. However, it would madden most people with a thinking mind.

    • Adrian

      It is brexiters like YOU who are in the bubble.
      Here’s the thing. You and the other 3 stooges around here that literally SPAM and innundate everyone oposing you with screaming and bogus youtube “evidence” are not right because people have nothing to reply to you with but because THEY GET BORED to deal with your insane conpitacy nonsense!

      You got out. Have fun.
      Now stop coming yo this EUROPEAN site considering you are not part of this anymore.

      On a side note – are you 3 stooges unemployed?
      I see you commenting here all the time. Hundreds of insne posts and you reply to everyone.
      That’s a LOT of time.

      What grinds my gears is that you CURS not only bamboozled the UK public to vote themselces into a ditch but instead of witdrawing happily to your island you spread your POISON to the EU ( that you are no longer a part of ).
      You just won’t stay away and admit we got a different points of view.
      Nooop.
      You’re like ISIS.
      “Either our way…for EVERYONE or the high way!”

      And that makes you despicable.

  97. Dodgy Geezer

    There is no point starting negotiations until both sides:

    1 – know who is negotiating
    2 – have their initial positions at least roughly sketched out.

    The Brits have been accused of not doing this, but they have already defined who will be working on this and have several sets of early-stage proposals for consideration. I do not think that the EU has even set up formal processes for asking each country what its requirements are, and there are bound to be extensive internal meetings required.

    The Commission ‘ban’ on informal negotiations is childish, pointless, impractical and almost certainly being widely ignored. It seems to have been instituted as a knee-jerk reaction – the Commission are on record as saying that they want to hurt the UK as badly as possible as punishment for not voting as the Commission wanted. However, such actions are also likely to hurt EU businesses, and they will want to make representations at all levels. It looks like another battle between the Council and the Commission is on the cards, and this cannot help the negotiation process…

    • catherine benning

      @ Dodgy Geezer:

      I feel you may be flogging a dead horse there. The EU is in such a state of disarray it should be considered calling, Article 50, whilst they have their pants down is in our interests. They are of the mind set that the longer they stall, the worries will disappear. They are not set up for intelligent reciprocity. Hence the mess within that union.

      It reminds me of a joke about the Southern States of the US in the sixties. It may be something you could take away with you.

      A black man goes into a restaurant in the deep South and when his dinner is served, the local gun toting, red necks come up and say to him, “Boy anything you do to that chicken, I’m gonna do to you.” So, the black guy, with a gleam in his eye, picks the chicken up from his plate and kisses it just as hard as he can.

  98. Dodgy Geezer

    The UK Conservatives believe in light government – the EU in restrictive government. But neither of these approaches create wealth and add value to life – that’s what trade and business do. Commercial interest on both sides would prefer as little government as possible, and a nice simple co-operative process for working together. Ideally free trade.

    I believe that the UK can deliver that. If the EU can’t, it’s not the Brits they should be worrying about, it’s their own businesses. That will be where the fighting will be. Internal to the EU. I do not think that the UK can help the EU with this – they will have to learn it themselves…

    • catherine benning

      @ Dodgy Geezer:

      Ah, so, we have an ‘arbeit macht frei’ preacher in our midst.

      Lets see. Conservatives believe in exactly the same government as any other party in the system. That is ones who believe in the globalist mantra and pass the CIA test.

      Trade and business purely offer a means to survive. It does nothing else at all. Those around it want total deregulation and the political power of a dictator.

      If you are as sharp as you are indicating, you will know that Article 50 is first and foremost the way to declare separation from the EU. What happens after that is more or less irrelevant. And that Article 50 can be called under Royal Prerogative, without any need for a deal with the EU Commission whatsoever. This constant fibbing to the UK public is simply a stalling tactic. And those appointed to our new government are simply a face card.

      The UK has no intention of fighting with the EU on any level. Davies is a carrot tied to the ears of the donkey, us. And Boris has a Dad who works in the EU, and a sister who doesn’t believe in Democracy, are you seriously suggesting he is going to fight for his Dad to be unemployed?

      The all important, Hammond, the true PM, is a staunch Remainer, as is May. The rest are lightweights who will follow any call necessary to keep their seat in cabinet. Which is why one of them, with principle, declined the office offered. She being a sort of Robin Cook. The only Brexiteer who really means it is Jacob Rees-Mogg and he didn’t get a look in because of his genuine belief.

      The EU Commissioners have too much at stake to cut off their noses to spite their faces. Globalism will continue in the same way it has for decades. Unfortunately. I only wish Brexit, really did mean, Brexit.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_C9Ckn9-VQ

    • Adrian

      Why not just mind your business now that you left?
      We run our business differently. Get used to it omg.

      Fitting nick name.

      The EU cannot initiate article 50. Only the UK can. Trust me we would have called for it already if we could.

  99. ken

    Mr Farage is waiting for the temporary Pm to back stab the UK people and try to reverse the vote to exit this club.
    Stall all you like treacherous Teresa, but keep one thing in mind,the more you go against this momentus vote, of the people, for the people, you have a general election in the future of which you will have no chance of winning.
    You know this to be true, so you play into the hands of Ukip, then leave all to us.
    Your kind are almost finished,
    And good riddance to all you traitors of this Britain, oh, all you English Europeans go to where you feel comfortable and the sooner the better.

  100. Duncan

    Ok, first let’s start by answering the question. As soon as we have a broad concept of what our exit plan is. No point trying to negotiate before you know what you want to negotiate for, and given the two year window for negotiations it would be reckless to waste months, weeks or even days of this time. Next I’d like to point out (for the 1st time here, but not the 1st time) how offensive i find the attitudes of the remain supporters that think I was somehow tricked by the lies of the leave campaigners into voting to leave. The leave campaign lies were as easy for me to unravel as the lies of the remain campaign. But when the UK has been and continues to devolve powers to localised government for the good of the local areas involved, be it wales, scotland or a local council, how can you ratify that by claiming that centralised government in the form of the EU is for the good of it’s member states? The bigger pool of people you have to try to benefit in decisions and policy the fewer proportionately will be happy with those decisions. Cooperation between countries regardless of geographical proximity should be and is achievable without the need to all conform to one set of rules. Furthermore, when the United Kingdom was being asked to vote our supposed politics leaders banned discussion of an exit strategy policy so our former leader David Cameron could focus on trying to scare us into doing what he told us to. Otherwise Article 50 might have been already activated. I’m immensely proud of my fellow countrymen for showing the courage needed to make the hard choice to leave behind some of the corrupt politicians we were faced with. Now we have a chance to make our countries future bright again. Will the work be easy? No, of course not. Change is never easy, but it isn’t always bad. As long as good decisions are made in the coming years though, we have a chance to benefit greatly independently of the EU but always remembering that we are a part of Europe.

    • Phil Watson

      yep, agree with that.

    • Beverley

      Surprisingly the United States of America is still united, and there are a few differences between the different states

  101. nando

    After they have resolved all the doubts about their vote.

  102. Ivan Burrows

    .

    When it is the British interest to do so, not before, we are not going to make life easier for Brussels.

  103. Ivan Burrows

    .

    We are NOT ‘divorcing Europe’, we are just leaving the pointless EU..

    vive la liberté !

    • Beverley

      If you think Europe is pointless I would have thought you would want to leave asap

  104. Beverley Sinton

    What is the point of reposting this? None of us here have any way to influence when article 50 will be invoked.

  105. Beverley Sinton

    What is the point of reposting this? None of us here have any way to influence when article 50 will be invoked.

    • Andrew Chapman

      From Sue Finch’s link: ‘For example, Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRAs) with third countries allow goods to be inspected and declared in conformity with Single Market rules by approved bodies before they are exported to the EU. This saves time and expense as shipments do not need to be impounded and checked at the EU border. MRAs are in place with many countries which do not have a full FTA with the EU, including China, the US and Australia.’

      It is true that the Notified conformity assessment bodies that certify certain products and manufacturing processes do have to be established in the EU, but they are free to carry out their activities anywhere in the world and of course do so. This is a red herring. See, for example, http://doortofreedom.uk/technical-barriers-to-trade-in-the-absence-of-a-mutual-recognition-agreement

      Andrew

  106. Andrej Němec

    The rest of the EU Members should have already acknowledged the loss of one Member State that “democratically” chose to leave the club.

  107. José Bessa da Silva

    If they want a prosperous future they should negociate their exit first, avoiding the EC as much as possible and then invoke the article and leave.

    • sue finch

      Its Britain in danger of civil war. The EU has strong bonds, worldwide trade & massive support from around the world. It is dealing with its problems about immigration pro-actively. Just a shame we cant help shape its future.

  108. Stefano Zuzzi

    We aren’t an hostage into the
    UK ‘ hands..
    ….even if I would have the
    UK in. …..

    • Adrian

      More reason for them to get out now.
      They want out. Fine.
      Then get out. No dilly dallying !

  109. eleni chryssomalakou

    Now everything is in the safe hands of Eu and Uk bureaucracy.People can do nothing anymore.

  110. Michael Šimková

    Whenever. The longer they dither the worse for them, it is British-based business that is being yanked around by the chain with no idea where their investments will end up in a few years.

  111. Manuel Alegria

    yesterday…
    cowards, never thought their demand whould win… now out you go!!
    Can join the Putin club

  112. Jamal Rowe-Habbari

    I don’t think that it should, and I do not believe that it ever will. No party wants to be the party that leads the UK away from the EU, as the inevitable consequences would damage their reputation in future elections. It is important to note, as well, that the government has no legal obligation to leave the EU, as the referendum was advisory. This means that, while the decision to remain may be unpopular with Brexit supporters, it would not be in any way breaking any rules. We’ll never leave.

    • Adrian

      Bingo!
      Realpolitik in action. The racist crowd can whine all they want.

  113. Yasmine

    So for those who say that the Brexit referendum was an exercise in democracy, here is an article on electoral fraud in the UK. This, obviously, raises questions with regards to all UK elections, only that the Brexit referendum results will last more than 4-5 years, and is therefore a much more important subject. The UK has also had several convictions in the international courts about disenfranchising people:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37055521

  114. Stuart Brown

    I have not read absolutely all comments, but all that I have read ignore one practical consideration: whatever we do and whenever we do it, has to be coherent with the need to keep this country afloat financially, in a way that doesn’t cause the population to derail a government before it has time to do the job in a properly considered manner. I’m not saying which way I voted; but I have been involved in policy implementation for decades and more recently in trade negotiations: and I can tell you simply that we cannot trigger Article 50 until we’re confident of being able to emerge from the process in the state we would like to be in. Sentiment has no place in this. It’s a case of institutional common sense.

  115. Andrew Chapman

    When HMG has agreed on its objectives for the Article 50 negotiation on withdrawal and the probably parallel negotiation on our future relationship with the EU.

    Andrew

  116. david edwards

    Our financial stability has been rocked by just the result of the referendum, illustrated by the low value of sterling. When article 50 is triggered there could be a financial earthquake as companies who have delayed investment finally decide to invest elsewhere. It should not be rushed and I consider it irresponsible for adults to suggest otherwise, in the same way that it would be reckless not to plan a journey, especially one that enters the unknown. The government needs to provide reassurances to our financial services sector a.s.a.p. and then make sure that the potential damage from triggering article 50 is limited. When there is an increase in the growth of investment in this country I will be quiet, but that isn`t coming any time soon. Just my thoughts on it.

  117. Paul Murphy

    To my mind, Article 59 should have been invoked within days of the referendum result, prevarication will do our country no favours. If our un-elected Prime minister keeps up with her shennanigans then we, the people, will take it as the death-knell of a corrupt, non-existent democracy. We WILL act.

  118. Paul Murphy

    Obviously I meant 50 and not 59. I posted this without my reading glasses. Lol.

  119. Tim Nick Knight

    Not soon enough. They need to shut their mouths and hit the road. We have had enough of their garbage.

  120. Hector Niehues-Jeuffroy

    As soon as possible, as late as necessary. Most importantly, there needs to be clarity whether (given that the referendum was non-binding) and, if yes, when Britain will exit the EU. The current situation just prolongs uncertainty and is a drag on both the EU’s and the UK’s economies. It is a shame that the EU isn’t able to initiate exit procedures on its own if a referendum against EU membership turns against the EU.

  121. Hector Niehues-Jeuffroy

    Btw, Debating Europe, this might be an interesting question for debate: Should the EU be able to initiate exit procedures on its own if a referendum in a Member State results in a rejection of EU membership?

    • David Edwards

      I don`t think so, especially with a referendum like the UK`s which was legally non-binding. EU has got better things to do though I get your point that it would have some control over an exit instead of uncertainty like we currently have.

  122. Jean-Pierre Rosa

    Now. Just get out.

    Just kidding 😂 They will elect labour (not with Corbyn) and beg to stay, depending on how bad the coming recession is.

  123. Manuel Alegria

    yesterday, and if not, they must be kicked out…
    its not fair to let UK waiting to get better deals, they do not deserve it, and plus, kick them out, will show some others to forget stupid claims

  124. Kevin Beach

    Never. It would be the worst mass suicide in history.

  125. Mitsos Daniel

    They seem to drag it on and on trying to strike the best deal possible for them with the EU. Having the positives but not the negatives (according to them) of a membership. Things dont work that way though, you wanted out, get out. Asap. Your choice. I love the UK but that’s irrelevant.

    29/03/2017 Roger Helmer, UKIP MEP, has responded to this comment.
    29/03/2017 Professor Iain Begg, Professorial Research Fellow at the European Institute of the London School of Economics and Political Science, has responded to this comment.

  126. Mille Radosi

    since uk is a servant to usa, trump will be deciding the timeplan for art 50. ;)

  127. Jokera Jokerov

    Well, there are rules and they say that it is up to HMG to decide, not me and you and not the bloody EU.

    • Sue R

      I’m with you

    • Ivan Burrows

      .

      Firstly unlike your president Juncker Theresa May ‘WAS’ elected, by the good people of Maidenhead.

      Why should we have another referendum when the British people have already made their choice ?

      We are leaving your decaying EU, get over it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9EC3Gy6Nk

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      Then you won’t mind if there is a double check and a new elected leaders. The Tories were not voted in by a majority vote with only 36%.

    • David Alan Roden

      Julia Hadjikyriacou unless you are a UK citizen what has it got to do with you? It is a purely UK issue. They get to decide and they already have.

      The UK parliamentary system is a little archaic but it is as it is the way it is at the moment – not long ago they had a referendum on whether they wanted to alter the system to a proportional representation analog – they voted no.

      Basically- unless you are a citizen of the UK it is not your concern.

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      I am not interested in labels. 36% is not a majority whatever label you stick on it. The whole system is flawed. Ideally there should be no parties. Just a set of ethical rules no admin of a country can violate. Like people and the planet first.

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      A qualified majority is 65%. But I believe people need to be informed properly of the pros and cons first for an informed decision based on facts. Not using lies like the money saved is going to the NHS when they are blatantly trying to privatise the NHS and spend money on bombs instead.

    • Ivan Burrows

      Julia Hadjikyriacou

      lol, on what planet is 65% needed for a winning majority ?, there can’t be many elections on Earth where a government has needed 65%.

      The 350 million can’t be spent until we stop giving it to your pointless EU, there is no lie only deliberate misinterpretation by quislings. It will be up to the government to decide where to spend it the day after we leave & not before.

      If you want ‘lies’ look no further than your unelected president Juncker.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      David Alan Roden I am a citizen of the UK. And this is a debate page for the EU which I also am a member of. Also there is free speech for anybody to state an opinion whether they are qualified citizens or not.

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      I told you all systems are flawed. I am pro a reformed EU. And pro a reformed system-everywhere.

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      Whether you leave or not, you will be stuck in a pro-elite system at the expense of the poor, vulnerable and working class. My personal opinion is uniting together with all EU countries citizens is a stronger vehicle for the people to achieve reform for a better world. Humanity has to unite to gain anything good from any system, to change it for the better. Depends if you view all humanity as one family or just those in your geographical borders.

    • Julia Hadjikyriacou

      Hardly what people who care for all humanity have in mind. The caring generation care about all people, exploited labour and slave labour in all countries, debt slaves and vulnerable classes in other countries, the abused, the tortured. The wars for resources. The environment. And more.

  128. Georgia Sigala

    Immediately. They’ve caused enough destabilisation already. All disastrous political decisions of the past decade have been at the instigation of the UK. You wish to blame someone for the shambles of immigration in Europe? Look to Tony Blair…

    • Ivan Burrows

      Georgia Sigala

      So the British created the migrant crisis, the Euro crisis, the banking crisis, the agricultural crisis, the democratic deficit crisis & the misery suffed by millions of people across the EU ???

      Sure we did lol

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36090188

  129. Barbara Szela Lesniak

    EU should rather rethink their own policy and stop worrying about GB – they’ll talke care of themselves. It’s EU and its poor leaders we should worry about these days.

  130. Wendy Harris

    The British will leave because the cause is now freedom and that is a cause we will fight to the death for. The rest of you can remain slaves or you can fight for the same cause and win back your countries. True power lies with the people of Europe and not with the bureaucrats or the elites who are the new aristocracy. The more they warn and threaten the more they expose their true nature. An empire ruled by tyrants cannot be reformed it can only be broken through the will and determination of the people.

    • Benjamin Jose Rekarte Aranguren

      Menudo discurso más vacio. Acaso no hay burócratas en Gran Bretaña. Sobre la soberanía de mi país. Mi país es Europa. Quédense aislados en su isla si les es posible. Cosa que dudo mucho. Suerte en su suicidio.

    • Irene Rosa

      What country is the United Kingdom? What do the Scottish or the Welsh think about the supremacy of England? After Brext will come the collapse of the UK. It’s a matter of time!

    • Wendy Harris

      The Welsh voted in favour of Brexit and you underestimate the Scots. The latest polls show that they are waking up to the tyranny of the EU as well and are turning against Nicola Sturgeon. Only 1.6 million Scots voted for Remain. There are 5 million Scots and 64 million people in the UK. Are you seriously suggesting that in a democracy such a small number should dictate to the rest?
      As for Benjamin saying his country is Europe. The EU is not Europe. We are all geographically Europeans and shall remain so whatever happens.

    • Azad Maruf

      Wendy what you are suggesting is more possible than before…every one got that your alternative won the U.S. election that is why now (as you said) you are going to do that for death….The wind is in your favour , up to that moment, but there are other issues like your illegal intrests overseas that illegal intrests you will loose during the next courses….You should expect that Wendy as the world now is divided again preparing for the war you have announced against Europe!!!!!

    • Wendy Harris

      Azad, the term ‘fight to the death’ is an expression not a declaration of war. And our fight for freedom is a political struggle, not a physical one. If that political battle is not won then it may become a civil war, which is why Brexit must succeed. I think it will succeed because Remain is only a preference and not a cause worth fighting for, unlike the cause of freedom.
      What is happening in the US and elsewhere is a similar rebellion against the establishment because of dissatisfaction with the ruling elite. It has little to do with Brexit.
      I don’t know what illegal interests you are talking about. Only crooks have illegal interests and they are very much a minority in the UK.

    • Sue R

      The British you talk of have long gone.
      The only thing they’ll fight for now is a beer.

  131. Jacob Marn

    june 24th 2016, you voted, it was your decision, we accept it, now leave pls :D was it a bad deciosion? for you probably yes, for us probably no, the UK (England and Wales really) have always made it very clear there is a sea between them and the continent, it wasn’t always apparent but in a way the UK was teh odd man out in the EU

    you have nothing to lose by stalling since the decision has already been made, you are just hurting the EU, get out asap and then the EU needs to begin its reforms

  132. Francis Hayashi

    There is no debate in this. EU member countries’ existing governments want BriExit to be painful so to let existing EU citizen see the hardship so to deter another Exit wave.

    This is political move to force U.K. UK should evoke the article 50 in September 2017. Till then we will see how many members will exit.

  133. Wendy Harris

    If the British people are punished I can foresee a boycott of EU goods. Why make an enemy of a friend?

    • David Fuzzey

      They will loose out as we by more from them than they buy from us.

    • Wendy Harris

      This is a great opportunity to build an efficient automated manufacturing base to become more self-sufficient. We need to lose non-viable companies that require cheap labour to make just a handful of people wealthy. The days of using humans as a cheap imported commodity must end.

  134. Sue R

    The people who voted to leave are mainly from the poor areas of Britain. The EU gave a lot of money to Cornwall, for instance. Cornwall’s one of the poorest areas in Europe.
    The British governments have never helped Cornwall, so why think anything will change after we leave?
    It won’t.
    Cornwall has commited financial suicide.

    • david edwards

      Yes, and perhaps some sectors like farming have shot themselves in the foot too.

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