immigrants

The European Commission has asked governments to rethink their approach to border-control and immigration following the deaths of at least 274 migrants last week in a shipwreck near the Italian island of Lampedusa. This tragedy is the latest (and worst) in a long list; nearly 20,000 people are thought to have perished since 2003 attempting to make the perilous crossing from Africa to Europe by sea.

The EU Commissioner for Home Affairs, Cecilia Malmström, has said more should be done at the EU level and called for Frontex, the EU’s border agency, to be given an increased capacity to launch search and rescue patrols. Currently, Frontex has only a small number of craft in the Mediterranean – four ships, two helicopters and two planes – to help Italy intercept boats.

But immigration is a controversial subject, and national governments are unlikely to want to pool their approach. Hans-Peter Friedrich, the German interior minister, has argued that he sees no reason for Europe to change its policies towards immigration in response to the Lampedusa tragedy, whilst the Conservative government in Britain is keen to be seen as tough on immigration and sees the EU as part of the problem instead of the solution.

We recently took some of your questions on immigration to European policy-makers to see how they would react. First, we asked Brian Hayes, Irish Minister of State for Public Service Reform (whose party belongs to the  centre-right ideology in our Vote2014), to respond to a question from Ivan on how the EU can help states to better integrate immigrants who arrive in their countries.

Next, we spoke to Oscar Wåglund Söderström, State Secretary at the Swedish Ministry of EU Affairs (whose party belongs to the  liberal democratic ideology in our Vote2014), and asked him to respond to a question from Christoforos on how Europe can continue to attract highly-skilled immigrant labour.

Finally, we put the same question to Tytti Tuppurainen, a Member of the Finnish Parliament (whose party belongs to the  social democratic ideology in our Vote2014), for her reaction.

Vote 2014

Voting is closed in our Debating Europe Vote 2014! The results are now in, so come and see what our readers thought!

IMAGE CREDITS: CC / Flickr – Noborder Network

81 comments Post a commentComment

What do YOU think? Should there be a common European approach to border-control and immigration in the wake of the Lampedusa tragedy? Or should this remain a national competence? Are immigration policies in Europe fair and effective? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we'll take them to policy-makers and experts for their reactions.

  1. Paul X

    I think the EU should have taken stronger action when it created the Schengen Area. It should have been quite obvious that if you remove internal borders you have to strengthen external ones. At the time this could have been done at zero net cost by diverting the savings from removing internal controls to improving external control

  2. Ana Georgieva

    Western Europen countries must accept them too. What are those double standards? Poor people, we accept everyday at list 100 people. Stop that war there!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Mirko Celii
      Good call!

  3. Ana Georgieva

    Those are running from WAR!!!!! They have lost everything, they are trying to save there lives!

    • Marcel

      Feel free to take them into your house.

    • Niemand

      There is active involvement of Muslim nations in these wars. Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey to name a few, which are by no means poor countries and they benefit greatly from these wars. Why don’t THEY help them?. I suppose Muslim populations could be integrated easily in Muslim societies. Still, they do not do that, they just fund NGOs in the West to promote increased Muslim presence on European soil.

      Europe fell for a ridiculous argument that we are a region which needs a younger population and cheaper labor force, but instead of helping young European families and internal labor mobility, our leaders are trying to convince us we should import those from Africa and the Middle East without thinking about the consequences.

      Soon (if not the case already), Europeans will be fed up with the concept of a unified Europe and nationalism (the plague of Europe) will re-emerge more powerful than ever.

    • John Smith

      Europe will not re-ermerge more powerful, it will just disappear and become a nothing in this world. It has no power, nor any influence left, the only countries with global influence are the USA, Russia and China.

  4. Hristo Panayotov

    If it is left to be a matter of national competence than this national competence could lead to just pass the ball to another national competence by just skipping the control over the immigration and this isn`t solving anything.

  5. Ronan

    Since the Schengen agreements are in place, with common external boundaries, it becomes logical that border control is a common concern (actually wider than EU only). Immigration is a different matter. It would be good to agree on common standards and not let the front line countries alone in their struggle to take care of asylum seekers.

  6. Natasa Jevtovic

    Free market isn’t only supposed to apply to goods, it should also imply free immigration according to job opportunities worldwide.

    • Marcel

      Nonsense, 95% of them just want handouts at our expense. The truly poor refugees do not have the means to come here.

  7. Dinko Dinev

    Well why should we put so much effort and resources into stopping the immigrants. Let them come, but do not put them in some shelters and give them food for free. Let them work. Let them prove that they can contribute to the society. No social benefits till they actually earn something and pay their share for the common good.

    • Mark

      That still doesn’t allow for a vetting procedure Dinko. Though I agree with you about immigration in general, that immigrants must prove themselves etc.. there’s also questions about their cultural values, what will the second generation be like, are we immigrating a criminal or someone that will not adapt to our culture? Basically i think we need to rethink how we handle what is essentially illegal immigration. The Chinese don’t accept it nor the Japanese to give just two examples, why does the UN insist that we should?

  8. Gregory Mason

    Ana perhaps you’d invite them into your home rather than offering the homes of others.

  9. Borislav Sotirov

    This is a philosophical question – what can we do if desparate people are struggling with their lifes to enter the EU heaven by all means. We cannot adopt all of them but can we watch them diyng before our doorsteps? What is the answer?

    • Marcel

      Shut the door, I say.

  10. catherine benning

    Seriously, you must ask yourself as responsible human beings, what you were thinking when you decided to import millions of disparate people into Europe from desolate areas of the planet without a thought of what and how you would accommodate these people?As well as the impact it would have on the host states, did you give any thought at all to what and who you would be granting permission to reside, en masse, at the cost to tax payers of each state and whether those host state people wanted such an influx. Did you think or care about the massive changes to the social cohesion and societies receiving them as a whole, knowing there was little similarity in cultures, expectations and acceptability to those differences. And that to absorb and integrate would be virtually impossible in the circumstances as no preparation had been made or notification of such principle? Do you think what you have done to whole societies has been at all fair on the peoples on both sides of the coin?

    What is happening across Europe is a massive disunity to the point where those who were once truly united are now falling rapidly apart. And the anger you have created is swelling to such unrest we are facing the real possibility of civil war in our states. Do you believe that a leading people have any right to do this in a democracy without asking the indigenous population for their consent as well as their agreement to fund this policy.

    Did you seriously believe millions of people who came from poverty woul be able to support themselves or have any idea how to suppoort themselves without the catastrophe we are presently witnessing with failing health service crumbling in front of our eyes from overload. Schools unable to function to the point where they no longer can pass on the ability to teach fundamental subjects such as simple reading and writing. Housing brought down to a level inconceivable in a civilised nation to the extent of creating massive homelessness, disease ridden .hovels and total chaos as well as distress to those who thought they had lifted their people out of such horrendous living conditions. Only to find themselves plunged further back than they had ever expected or seen in their lifetimes.

    To now question whether you should reconsider border control is a sign of total insanity. If you don’t take steps to stop the influx of people what do you presume will be the outcome. What is it you want for goodness sake. More homeless, starving, illiterate people, looking to be cared for whilst asking for the subjugation of human rights as they do so?

    Closing border is so little and so late you will have to consider much more than that to right what you have done to us in the name of charity.

    As I wrote in another post, you have to put Europe and its future first, before anything else you have going on in those strange collective minds you appear to have. And foremost, after closing the doors, has to be the enforcement of the laws and expectation of adherence to those laws and its social norms as mandatory for remaining within Europe. anyone who cannot accept the way of life we have must leave if they cannot accept these standards we all must live by to remain afloat as a functioning Western society.

    And the time is to start now. Not a year from now, because, the longer you leave it the worse it is getting and will get until degeneration is complete.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Europe

    And Migrationwatch is a good place to get the nearest to the truth you will see on how and what is happening in the UK by the influx of millions of people.

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/

    We have gone from a country of 50million in 1951 to almost 65million today, 2013 and rising rapidly as those born outside Europe have large families. It will be 70 million in another 10 years. That is higher than the ratio in China..

    And I have one more question: Why does Europe’s leaders want this situation when the people who pay for it clearly do not and never didt? What do they believe they will achieve by such policies?

    • Artemis

      I have read some of your comments in other discussions and I totally disagree with your xenophobic worldview. Perhaps you know, that the cause of the problems in health care and other social issues is, that we are more and more living in a world controlled by companies and banks and their low wages and exploitation of people in EU countries (look e.g. what Amazon, Lidl etc. do in Germany). If companies don’t like the better standards in EU countries they just leave and produce in China, Bangladesh etc. under very bad working conditions for people there leaving at the same time the people in Europe without jobs. So in no case migrants are responsible for the worsening of living conditions in the EU. If migration could be legal (if e.g. a Pakistani would be able to get visa to work legally as a worker, as they do here in Greece because all the greek youth is forced by the crisis to leave the country and to work in other european countries), there would be more tax payers here, so there would also be better health systems for the greek ‘indigenous’ population. Europe is growing older and older, already the pensions are not able to be payed, because there are not enough young people to pay for it. Also Europe takes so few asylum seekers, if you compare with other countries, like Pakistan, so we should leave much more people inside Europe. (
      Don’t tell me again, I should put them in my home, because I already do it). We should also not forget, that the problems in other countries are mainly caused by us. How long Europe has exploited it’s colonies, especially Great Britain was very good at this? We are all one nationality, the human one. Why we expect to be welcomed in every country of the Earth, if we are not able to welcome others and make them feel at home? Nobody wants to leave his home country if he is not forced by the circumstances. We in Europe should accept, that in future we will be living in multicultural societies, it is not so difficult to show interest for your neighbours and fellow humans of other cultural background, as you now may still think.

    • Mark

      I agree with you and I don’t find it xenophobic. As you said it’s our leaders having uncontrolled immigration without our consent that has led to this. There are perfectly acceptable means of legal immigration for professional people already. We need to act fast before this does become civil war.

  11. Davey Brown

    You want civil wars and an increase in racism, open the borders. Idiots! There are limited rescources and limited jobs. The EU’s lunatic policys have already created Golden Dawn. The EU needs to be destroyed and countries allowed to decides who is allowed residency. Unless you want to be over run with terrorists andccriminals as we are seeing in the UK.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Artemis
      Morally, we SHOULD help our fellow human beings even those that follow a religion associated with violence ie Islam.

      Logically, Western Europe is the lesser part of a small continent and there are limitations on the number of fellow human beings any given EU country can support.

      What is the solution? I don’t really know BUT perhaps we could temporarily house people under distress for 3-year fixed rolling periods; once their home countries are at peace they will be co-opted to return to their home country and rebuild same. Furthermore, the EU can invest in creating new towns and FEZs to help their returnees build up their own countries.

  12. Kim Jacobsen

    It really aggravates me, when you have all of these naive people commenting, all too ready to spend other people’s money. For that is what those illegal immigrants end up costing society, a lot of money. It’s not really surprising, unskilled labor moving to countries with beneficial welfare programs. So in the end it will be the death kneel of the welfare state.

    Not to mention that northern European countries have accepted far more immigrants then the countries in the south.

    • Marcel

      I propose that the proponents of more immigration be forced to take immigrants into their own house.

    • Artemis

      http://qz.com/134866/the-mediterranean-is-a-watery-graveyard-thanks-to-european-policy-not-african-poverty/

      Also did you know, that the biggest numbers of asylum seekers stay in the countries next to their homes?

      http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2011/01/05/glance-who-takes-most-asylum-claims

      1. I think, the money @ Kim, that is spent for Frontex and all the other unnecessary things, like f.e. the Defence of Greece (they still spend huge amounts of money for protection from the Turkish “danger”) could be used much better for the european countries for education and welfare.
      2. Also you probably don’t know that most of the money that Europe is giving for the “illegal” migrants is ending up in the pockets of Europeans? How many Frontex people, policemen, lawyers, etc. do have a job because of the migrants? How much money many people put illegal in their pockets, money that is supposed to be spent for the migrants? Asylum seekers are for many european people big business.
      3. As I know, many Germans are busy exploiting the german welfare system, the strangers usually don’t know so much about it, because it is very complicated, even for a german citizen. Migrants most of times plan, that they can make some money in 3 years in anther country and than return to their families in their home country and open a small business. If there are not enough jobs for you in your country, wouldn’t you expect that you are free to seek a job in other countries? I’m shure you would.
      4. The northern countries perhaps do accept more asylum seekers, but look e.g. at the economy of Greece. The northern countries have the money, they even borrough money to much better conditions, than e.g. Greece. You even see it in the Supermarket. In Germany, the basic goods are much cheaper, than in Greece, even though the salary in this country is about the half or third of that in Germany.

      I agree with @Tarquin Farquhar, that Europe should legally allow asylum seekers for a period of time, as well as migrants who just want to stay for 2 or three years so that they can start a small business in their home countries. Also we in Europe could support people directly in their home countries, e.g. with microcredits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grameen_Foundation) and very good pay back conditions, so that they have also some chances to get on their feet by themselves.

      The people who want Europe to be a fortress, will have one day to pay for it, because every fortress in history has one day been demolished. So it is much better that we humans accept, that we all are living on the same planet, that the things that we have in common are more than the ones that divide us and that the resources have to be shared equally between all of us so that everyone is able to live in peace and to have a home and enough food to eat. It does not serve anybody to try to increase the hate, envy and differences between the people on our planet. In the end, it is likely that we priviliged people will also be in the bad situation that we have to ask for asylum in other countries (again, the last time was not so long ago, if you remember), and nobody will provide this to us?

  13. Paul X

    Ana, the UK is the second highest giver of overseas aid money, the only country that gives more than the UK is the US. The justification for this is to help poor people in their own countries but it is these same people who are trying to get out of their country and into Europe. I refuse to accept that on top of the 9 billion GPB of UK taxpayers money we spend on overseas aid that we need to give more to help the same people come to Europe
    As far as I’m concerned the UK gives enough already to help these people, they can have our aid in their own country or help if they come here, but not both

    • Dan

      Paul, as your ancestors invaded their countries some time ago, they return the favour. They can’t steal the natural resources, but they can work in some jobs you won’t.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Paul X
      The USA and the UK clearly demonstrate that the ‘ANGLO-SAXON’ perspective does have its positives. Compare that with the selfish and arrogant French perspective [currently dominating the EU] and it is easy to see which philosophy is superior, morally at least.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Paul X
      Well Said. The ‘Anglo-Saxons’ have historically been more caring than the likes of France, Germany, Italy and Spain for example.

  14. Borislav Sotirov

    @Kim Jakobsen, we don’t push them , they just decide to go at yours by themselfs… :)
    Seriously, it is a 2 sided question – they cost money, but also produce. A single person is a economic unit andding to the economy. Generaly all of the imigrants work and produce for your economy and that makes more benefits for your welfare.

    • catherine benning

      @Borislav:

      Not in my country they don’t. The European immigrants, other than those from Romania, whobrought a wave of pickpocketing and theft beyond reason with them, in the main work hard indeed. The Polish for example are an excellent people for the British to learn from. And so are the Japanese. Following their ways and adopting their skills and tenacity would be good for many of us. But the price we are paying for this hideous term called multiculturalism and the so called Globalization that is shoved down our throats is a price way too high and we are not willing to go along with it. Hence the rise of Farage and UKIP..

      However, the majority coming into the UK come from Africa, India, Pakistan, the Middle East and so on. Whole towns and cities have been engulfed and created no go areas where little or nothing at all relating to a Western lifestyle continues at a pace and the British people are not willing to accept this. Of course our Government tells them it is as a result of our unity with Europe. Is it?

      The clash of cultures is horrendous, and the result is, the British people will vote to leave Europe in their droves because of it. It is too much to accept if you want to remain a modern society. Watching what you had no part of introducing, or, having had any vote on, taking over your life and those of your children is not what was pushed at us and is certainly not democratic. Women are murdered by their own families in a idiocy called honour killing and it has reached levels no one could have foreseen. Dismembered bodies of children used in witchcraft ceremonies float in our rivers at a rate that would take your head off. Rape has become an everyday occurrence and the abuse of young ‘free girls’ is considered ‘in vogue’ in those areas. And if you think we are going to lay down and let this continue at a pace that is designed to obliterate the society we established, then you need a rethink.

      The money any of them bring in as so called taxes is used up three fold in what it costs to have them here. And who, in their right mind, wants to sell a civilized lifestyle for a backward, violent and illiterate future?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEUECcGz0cU

      The cost to our society is way beyond finance. Female genital mutilation is growing on a level that is a disgrace. to anyone calling itself a government in a Western society and those who imported this female exploitation here should have to face what these little girls face . Those who brought it here must be returned to their country of origin. Mutilating women is not what we pay our taxes for.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc9ALTwqnH8

      And the idiot who says in an earlier post, that colonization is the cause of it, is full of clap. Today’s generation live in the present not in the past. If you like it for your country, then you open your doors and pay for it. Live with it , embrace and love it. You take responsibility for the world and watch yourself starve from the doing of it.

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar/01/accusations-witchcraft-pattern-child-abuse

      You want this in your street for your children to grow up with, then you take it into your state and fund it. Leave ours alone.

      The true reason for this is cheap labour. To reduce the wage bill of the poor. so those who decided this was for our people need to face the voters.

  15. Davey Brown

    Bollocks, the ones in work drive wages down and the rest of them drive taxes up with their insatiable demand for taxpayers money. If these people are so talented and hard working how come the countries they leave are shitholes? How come our prisons and benefit offices are packed with them? I certainly dont remember any political party in the UK putting it on their election manifestos. This is sheer unadulterated lunacy which is going to end badly…. VERY badly.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Davey Brown
      I say dear boy, despite your ‘choice’ language I CANNOT fault your perfect/flawless/accurate/correct logic!

      Bravo, dear sir – your industrial spelentic invective and your verisimilitude are a PERFECT counter to the f-wits [possibly paid for by the EU] that frequently emote/espouse/evince on these biased EU debating fora!!

  16. Christos Mouzeviris.

    “Ideally if Europe really wanted to deal with the issue effectively, it should create either jobs in the countries of origins of the illegal immigrants, or agencies that will attract the right amount of migrants with the right skills. In other words Europe should set up employment agencies in Africa and other regions, once of course it manages to create a common immigration policy.

    In that way immigrants will come into Europe through a legal and acceptable way, not being stacked like animals on a boat or a truck, facing an uncertain future and even death. Intense and further cooperation with transitioning nations for the immigrants to prosecute any traffickers, or clamping down on companies that employ and exploit illegal immigrants can also offer some solutions to the problem.

    ……………..
    In many countries far right groups have gained popularity because of the inability of the mainstream political parties, to address effectively the issue of immigration and find solutions to their nation’s economic woes. As long as Europe is unable to speak with one voice and convince other rich nations to join in the fight against global poverty and instability, tragedies like that of Lampedusa will become a common occurrence in the future.”

    Read more at: http://eblanademocraticmove.blogspot.ie/2013/10/the-lampedusa-tragedy-calls-for-pan.html

    • Marcel

      We do not need more immigrants, just look at the unemployment figures!

      And a ‘EU’ immigration policy, I think not. Ignoramuses like Malmstrom will flood us with millions of immigrants whilst she will keep living in her all white upper class neigbourhood with her tax-exempt income.

      Those who are the biggest proponents of immigration always tend to be those who do not live in the part of town where the immigrants will come to live.

  17. Pavlina Pournara

    i hate to admit that the Lampeduza tragedy did not come as a shock to me and the irony of seing all these gov officials on the spot “crying” over the bodies, is at the least, disgusting. Is it the large number of deaths at this given moment that shocked them into leaving their office to witness the damage…; As long as there is poverty and war, illegal immigrants will continue to try to escape their fate in their country of origin. It is not enough for EU’s periperal countries to control the influx, as it is unlikely to effectively guard thousands of miles of sea fronts and land borders unless maybe, we literally fortify Europe with a brick wall!! All we can do, is try to decrease the influx.
    As mentioned by other speakers, significant funds for aid to “third world countries” have been distributed. Maybe its time to consider how effective are these “distributors” i.e. global non proffit organizations for world aid? Should we also be questioning to what extent is the aid received through government channels (inter state agreements) actually reaching the rightful beneficiaries. Furthermore, there are rumors that governments of certain states actually encourage their citizens to emigrate. Should this be an issue for investIgation?
    Maybe, the EU should also “bombard” states with high emigrant outflow with informative campaigns , in their countries of origin, firstly, on the dangers of the illegal passage to Europe and secondly, probably more important, would be to disillusion these populations that the western world is not the land of prosperity (as they have been convinced by the traffickers who undoubtedly would hate to lose the enormous proffits they make from illegal immigrants).
    One could go on for ever on this matter, however I will end my comment with a discussion I had with an immigrant (now legal) who told me that he would have never left his country if he only had one goat and a few chickens in his possession back home. Today, he is a family man in this country, with two children who have been born and educated in this country and are, as a family, totally assimilated in the local population.

  18. Con Rad

    Here we go again – racists from UKIP/BNP/EDL scaremongering and scapegoat. Limited resources you say – well I am sure we want European factories and banking services repatriated back to where they belong – Europe. Sealed the borders and visa restrictions on every racist – means no sunny holidays in Spain, but you can f …k off somewhere else. You are able to quote your tabloid Daily Mail and Nigel Farage – at max, just because you are as brainwashed as both editors of this nazi toilet roll and your yellow/purple fuhrer with pint of ale. Ups sorry toilet roll is worth more because it has the purpose – to wipe the ass, Daily Mail is not good enough. Daily Mail founder proudly did let to be pictured shaking hands with Hitler – this says everything about this piece of waste and its readers. Do you check how clean is your blood line 7 generations back? I am more than sure you have armbands with swastika in yellow purple in your wardrobes – and wear them in deep secret from time to time – dreaming about NEW EMPIRE of MASTER RACE. Can you RACISTS see anybody standing in your way on leaving EU? Nobody. Nobody even wants you either for pure reason that resolutions in European Parliament will not be blocked by your ill minded MEP’S from UPRICK. So vote f … k off – and don’t forget to give us back what belongs to us, as you love to cheat, trick and steal – just like common thief. Muslim terrorists – I love this comment says all about you f … k RACISTS. As many of you claim – you are not Europeans so I suggest this – go to debating Kamchatka Paninsula (as you host many Russian mafia bosses) or debating Bongo Bongo Land – because you are in wrong place. With your plans of increasing the money for army about 40% – clear sign of invasion, I think debating North Korea is perfect place for you.

    • catherine benning

      Now here above is a perfect example of hatred at its core. And the hatred is clearly toward Europe, its culture, lifestyle and expectations, How can anyone in their right mind want to import this as the way forward. What people must consider is…how is it Europe industrialized, developed and grew socially and artistically as a society, when the same didn’t happen in the third world? For whatever reason?

      And pleeeeze don’t blame the European people and civilization for the failure of those nations to exploit their amazing resources, nor for the corruption endemic throughout their states. That is a tired old fall back, as is the crude race card conveniently drawn to stultify intelligent debate. Relying on that obfuscation cannot assist in opening up truth and assist in the ability to ‘reverse’ the horror for the betterment of our future.

      Slavery and c19 colonialism are not reasons for the developing worlds lack of humanity toward their fellow man. The fact is, almost without fail, every invaded country of those times has gone backward since European powers retreated and withdrew. We have done as asked and left them to get on with making their own decisions in order to freely take care of themselves and their people. In essence, given them massive aid and assistance to rule their own waves. But, this does not include the previous posters wrath for not allowing them to now invade and rule ours.

      The countries that produce the wave of mass immigrants must be free to take responsibility for their own actions. To join the adult world of making their own bed and allowing them to lay in it. Because without that learning curve and the pain of the birth to reach it, their life will never change. They will remain in the kindergarten, forever looking for the adult world to take them from that which they brought upon themselves. And which, in so doing, will lead to further exploitation of not only them but us. We cannot feed the world. And we cannot allow our world to die a result of overburdening our nations for those who refuse to reject envy and move on to enlightenment.

      Compassion ill used will lead to the death of the compassionate, as well as to those they had wished to save.

    • Marcel

      Countries that leave the EU will see increase in business and prosperity, not decrease. Especially those that have the Euro, they will be instantly better off by ditching the wealth-destroying monstrosity.

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Con Rad
      Hey, F-wit – I am not white person BUT I support UKIP. Its NOT a far-right organisation it is a right-of-centre party AND it does not believe in stopping immigration – it believes in controlling and limiting immigration.

      After all, why should the UK be limited to choosing from the poorer citizens from a very small continent when it can choose citizens from across the planet.

      The UK is an island nation accustomed to dealing/trading/fraternising with people from ALL over the world NOT just the small mass [in terms of land area and population] that is continental Europe!

      Under-informed F-wits like you should get your facts right before putting finger to keyboard!!

    • Gregory

      It is brave of you to make so much sense in an ocean of self-destructive, arrogant guilt ridden insanity. Personally I have neither the energy nor emotional fortitude to respond to the depraved lunacy generated by naive westerners incapable of understanding what it is to preserve successful societies or why such a thing is even desirable. I’m glad someone is brave enough to counter their self-loathing indulgence though. Keep it up!

    • Gregory

      @ Catherine Benning:

      It is brave of you to make so much sense in an ocean of self-destructive, arrogant
      guilt ridden insanity. Personally I have neither the energy nor emotional fortitude to respond to the depraved lunacy generated by naive westerners incapable of understanding what it is to preserve successful societies or why such a thing is even desirable. I’m glad someone is brave enough to counter their self-loathing indulgence though. Keep it up!

    • John Smith

      @Tarquin Farquhar it is in the EU for the simple reason, to deal with globalization. You can call the UK itself a very very small island. Basically the problem is the UK (as with most of Europe and the USA) produces absolutely nothing, when I buy a so called “British product” I see the labels “made in China”, “made in India”, “made in Indonesia”, “made in Brazil”, “made in Turkey”, “made in Korea”, it is very rare to see a product which has “made in the UK” on it, and usually if it is, it is either only assembled in the UK or it is very cheap small produce such as a handbag or pair of socks sold on the local British market. All countries in the world except for a very limited few such as Russia, Canada and possibly Australia are limited in resources, some may have abundance of oil such as Iraq, and the Gulf States but they are 100% dependent on foreign food and water imports, others may have abundance of minerals such as South Africa but no oil, and for those which may have all the resources require modern technology from abroad. As you can see no nation can isolate itself and provide a good life for its citizens it can only just survive like Cuba, North Korea and Iran.

      Who is the one who would want deal and do business with an unproductive, technologically obsolete, and debt-ridden *second highest debt in the world > 100% of GDP”. what makes Britain more attractive to Africans, South Americans and the like over emerging power players and technologically advanced, productive nations such as China, especially given the colonial past, some people are sensitive and see doing business with Britain as being a colony again.

      The only major income which Britain has is from resource exploitation in Africa and South America but even that is starting to change, when China is beating Britain to the bunch, offering better, cheaper and more efficient deals. The other source of income is in the so called “service-based” i.e. “Doing each others laundry”, not “manufacturing /resource”, economy however this is hardly enough to live the life you are living now, there are other island nations which have a service and tourism-based economy, but they are hardly as rich as Britain, they are more like Bulgaria and Romania. Countries would normally pay a lot for a physical product or resource more so than they would pay for lets say a computer program.

      So in the end, the EU was designed to group the small European countries “in terms of population and land area”, into a single Bloc to be able to face against Huge (in terms of land area, population and economy) Giants such as the USA, Russia, China, and it was designed particularly for Western Europe, but expanded to the East to prevent Russia from rebuilding the USSR. How do you think the small West European nations would have faired individually against these Giants, they would have been crushed by now. Even Germany which is the only real productive nation in the EU, needs the EU, while it provides the majority of income to the Bloc, it gains cheap labour from Eastern and now Southern Europe, and the EU gives it a greater global representation. The EU is way more significant in world affairs than Germany by itself would be, just compare the two EU – 10.18 million sq km (bigger than Canada) vs Germany – 360 000 sq km (smaller than Zimbabwe), EU – 500 million inhabitants (more than the 3rd largest in the world USA) vs Germany – 82 million inhabitants.

  19. Marcel

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Eurosoviet will try to display its faux outrage and use this as a tool to further the destruction of democracy and the building of the Eurosoviet Union.

    How does an ignoramus like Malmstrom get into the position she’s in anyway. That ‘woman’ is a major threat to Europe, she wants to flood us with millions more immigrants, all to soothe her left wing conscience (she of course lives in an upper class white neighbourhood).

  20. Together-We-Stand

    The EU should stand together on this and close down the outer borders of our beloved union. We need to keep these unwanted illegals out!

    Send them all back ASAP!

    • Tarquin Farquhar

      @Together-We-Stand
      If the UK could expel its EU ‘continentals’ en masse [who after all have only moved to the UK for more cash] back to the continent – I’m sure that the UK would temporarily help house a million Syrian refugees for 3 years or until the Syrian war ends.

  21. Davey Brown

    Ok latest official figures put EU scroungers at 600,000 unemployed in the UK costing over a billion and a half in benefit payments to the British taxpayer every year. This figure does not include the costs of the crimes they commit such as cashpoint fraud of which they commit 90% of that type in London alone. Nor does it include the cost of other henefits to the low skilled migrants from the continent such as child benefit to none existent children. As a taxpayer I begrudge every penny spent on the EU and its “citizens” It is theft pure and simple. Give us our damned referendum NOW and let us have done with this vile union.

    • catherine benning

      @Davey Brown.

      I take it you are aware that 80%, yes, 80% of all immigration to the UK comes from ‘outside’ of Europe.

      So, once we have our referendum and you get the wonderful treat of voting to pull us out of the EU, along with the rest of the anti Europe people, led by our government to believe this will alleviate the immigration problem. Then once you are hit with the truth, that, low and behold, government and UKIP lied, as those from the Commonwealth, encouraged by present government as well as past, by advertising for workers from these countries outside Europe continues. What will you and your ilk do then? Cry and stamp your feet in a tantrum or what?

      It will be immigration at the same rate, only this time ‘all’ from the Commonwealth, Asia, India, South America, China, Pakistan, and on and on and on. All of them with little cultural similarities to our own. And religions that are forceful and tyrannical wanting to take over the state from within. As they openly declare today. Just tell me what you will do then?

      And you see Europe as the threat? You are blind dear boy. Blind to your own fate. And more than that, voting for it with a vengeance.

  22. Antonio Jose Pecurto Pecurto

    A UE deve mundar o seu sistema de emigração esse sistema hoje esta quebrado Porque a EU têm a prioridade e proteger os seus cidadãos e apoiar os paises em desenvolvimento de que esses governos possam gratir que as comunidades mais pobres não sejam o alvo dos abusos

  23. eusebio manuel vestias pecurto

    É lamentavel o que se passou Lambedusa a UE deve mundar esse sistema de emigração este esta quebrado e travarem a emigração ilegal hoje os cidadãos europeus estão dentro de um tunel onde existe a inclusão social e o empobrecimento dentro das nações europeias

  24. Christos Mouzeviris

    @Marcel immigration is inevitable in a globalized world… I do not mind a certain number of immigrants in my country as long as they are legal, they have jobs rights and the same obligations to the state as me.. So yes I do not like freeloaders either, but if anyone wants to come and work and there are jobs that need to be filled then why not? I do believe that we must start creating a policy on immigration in Europe that will attract skilled workforced with the skills that we need and ideally from countries with a more compatible culture to ours.. Like Latin America for example… In this way we avoid to have to tolerate burkas and Shariah Laws in our countries. Latin Americans have a very “Europeanized” culture so they can be easily integrated…

  25. Al

    What are the arguments for mass immigration?

    Low birthrates
    Ageing population
    Political influence
    Major international businesses

    Why are these arguments flawed?

    The planet is dramatically over-populated; the three main regions responsible for this are Europe, India and Eastern China (Just look at a world population density map to see for yourself). The good news is the birthrate in the west is naturally low and in China artificially low although India’s is still quite high overall, although in the more developed regions its low.

    If it wasn’t for mass immigration Europe would slowly but surely gradually reduce its population density. The rate of decline would be so slow it would be very manageable.

    People are living longer, but they are also staying healthier longer, therefore capable of working longer.

    Countries of previous significant influence such as the UK, or major federations with significant global political influence such as the USA and aspiring potential federations such as the EU need higher populations to maintain / create high overall GDP that allows for greater spending and influence on global issues and status. This actually means nothing for the standard of living / GDP per capita. You can have a highly developed country / economy with a low population and or low population density. The country wouldn’t have so much global political influence but you know more often than not, meddling in other countries affairs causes more problems than it solves.

    Major international businesses are not going to favor gradual population decline, because their ethos is founded on ever expansion. The irony is, in any given economy the majority is made up of small business that do not have an ethos of ever expansion, but rather self sufficiency. In a nutt shell, major international businesses, as big as they appear, are actually only a small piece of the pie. They can adapt to a gradually declining population size by being more self sufficient, i.;e less greedy and still thrive. In fact, if there was not mass immigration, this is exactly what they would have to do.

  26. Al

    To summarise then;

    There is absolutely no need for mass immigration and I haven’t even mentioned all the problems and complications mass immigration causes.

  27. Together-We-Stand

    Europe must close down it’s outer borders. We have to many illegal immigrants already. The current approach is failing, keep them out!

  28. Marianne

    In present time there is no legal way for refugees to enter the Shengen area since they can’t get a visa for the EU or individual member states due to the risk of people from crisis areas and countries seeking assylum once here. On the other hand these people are free to seek assylum once they’ve passed the Shengen borders, pushing them into the hands of smugglers wich offer lifethreatening methods like unseaworthy vessels on the Mediterreanean or airtight containers. This to me is nothing short of double standards.
    To offer a safe haven for refugees during a conflict is, to me, an act of humanity.
    In case anyone forgot, we had intraeuropean war refugees as late as the 1990′s.

    To those claiming that Syrias neighbours should take care of the majority of the refugees: they allready do. The vast majority of the Syrian refugees are found in camps in Jordan, Turkey and Kurdish Iraq. About 400 000 have taken shelter in Egypt, torn apart by it’s own problems. The only acceptable solution to this situation is resolving the Syria crisis, but in the mean time people all over the world has to show solidarity and do what we can to aid – not just ask for somebody else to take action.

    Immigration on other grounds is a totally different subject, it has to do with our schooling system failing to match the students to soughtafter qalifications, our readiness to accept marriage between cultures or personal adventuresness, for example.

  29. Patrick

    Close to border, Europe is full and we don’t want you here.

  30. Alex

    Well we have like 700k Italian,700k Greek,a million polish ,some Vietnamese,Portuguese,peeps from sri lanka,3million Russians and all are assimilated after the first generation and then we do have like 4 million Turks.Mix up with the locals?Not in 500 years this is going to happen.Considering the experience we made with the last migration from a muslim country i m going with fortress europe.Migration from europeans or asian the more the better,but muslim countries no thanks.Only for asylum til the end of the war

  31. Aleksejs Miščuks

    It’s so strange – I just posted a comment here and it magically disappeared. Glitch or censorship – join the debate :D

  32. Debating Europe

    Aleksejs, we haven’t received any comment on this post, there must have been a technical problem. Please feel free to post your comment again!

  33. Aleksejs Miščuks

    I just wanted to point out that the result of this system can be clearly seen in muslim(though there can be exceptions) city blocks of London, Paris, Berlin. And another – the fact that, for example, Germany confirms the fact that many radical muslims travel to Syria from Germany to fight in the Syrian civil war, under the banners of Al Qaeda’s branch organization is evidence of a complete failure of the integration policy performed in Germany. That is just one example – there are plenty of others throughout the western, southern and northern europe.

  34. Inês Beato

    I think there should be some restrictions. I’m not against immigrants, I just think countries have a limit of people that they can support, and too many people would mean they will live worse. And give preference to qualified immigrants over others that sometimes can’t even read or write. It would benefit everyone in the long term.

  35. Lou Lou

    This is equal to what happened in the concentration camps, no human dignity at all and migrants being treated like animals… Time is cyclical huh? We are doing the same, and the only thing that matters, is that we “had too much tolerance”, Luca. Yeah, you have a level of “tolerance” facing the intolerable that surprises me. Wonder what your children will think of your attitude in 60 years from now.

  36. Aleksejs Miščuks

    Lou – this response is only adequate to the amount of problems generated by numerous groups of immigrants who don’t want to integrate in the society they have migrated to – when instead of accepting and living by the law codex of the country they neglect it and continue to live by sharia law or customs of the country of their origin. The cause of it is not only the result of the failure the social services – that is quite clear, but there is also fault in those people who prefer to use the goodwill of various social benefits of different country social systems in bad intent.And i’m sorry – but one individual evidence of bad treatment can’t be the definitive alpha & omega in the discussion about the origins of bad immigration situation in EU. It’s a complex problem, and it’s resolution can’t be achieved while there is still current hyper-tolerance taboos at work in EU.

  37. Marie Strati

    Those people are leaving their countries with a high risk for a better life. In my opinion the EU should contribute actively in the establishment of democracy and welfare in the countries where immigrants come from.

  38. Jude De Froissard

    Why have migration when there are no jobs….why make people dream of a better future when it does not exist?better would be to go and invest in their countries.. after all…they have the riches now.. we only have the knowhow………… and the tax collectors.

  39. Pavlos Vasileiadis

    @ Jude De Froissard This is exactly the problem. Because of the advanced technology, the powerful armies and the corrupted political elites the EU countries are exploiting the riches (above and under ground) of these people leaving them in a mizerable and desperate state. So, inevitably lots of them make their way to other lands in order to get by. Very few leave their homelands just for kicks. If we were to stop this and invest in these countries in a non-colonial sense, then we could see a breakthrough. However, a less greedy and irresponsible policy on behalf of the EU at this stage doesn’t seem possible.

  40. Adele

    There has been a debate raging in the UK on the subject of EU migration into the UK. The UK is seen as a “soft touch” with a generous welfare benefit regime which could be the attraction . My solution would be to change the policy so EU migrants are only entitled to the exact amount of benefits in monetary terms that they would get in their own countries. This will solve the problem. It could be argued that if a UK citizen ends up in a country who may not be able to afford to pay the level of benefits afforded by the UK to its citizens. This can be addressed by each country offsetting and making up the shortfall to subside their citizens in the countries of their residence. I truly beleive that this would be the solution to the current problem being experienced by the stronger economies in Europe who are heaving under the weight of supporting the numbers of migrants coming into their countries and putting pressure on their resources. If people only get what they would be entitled to in their own countries , the benefit tourism will end .

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