nigel-farage

As part of our ongoing series of posts looking at the UK’s (increasingly precarious) place within the EU, we recently put some of your questions to Nigel Farage MEP, leader of the UK Independence Party (UKIP). Parts onetwo, three and four of our series are online already, and we will be publishing a special report at the end of the series, including highlights and unpublished interviews.

Mr Farage is speaking today at UKIP’s annual party conference in Birmingham. Yesterday, we asked him to respond to a couple of the comments you’ve sent us about the future of the EU. We began with a comment from Lee, who was responding to European Commission President José Manuel Barroso’s recent call for the EU to become a ‘Federation of Nation-States’. Lee argued that: “A federation is just as bad as a superstate. A confederation is just about bearable.”

How would Nigel Farage respond?

I don’t see why we should put up with any structures which might be described in these terms. We need democracy – otherwise, we get tyranny. We need national sovereignty – otherwise, we cannot have democracy; and we need transparent diplomacy, voluntary cooperation and free-trade agreements between nations in order to foster prosperity and peace. We can forget centralisation and homogenisation (what Brussels calls ‘integration and harmonisation’). They are stupid, injurious and wrong, whatever the result may be called.

Next up, we took a comment from Morag on the question of Scottish independence: “If the UK position is to renegotiate its terms with the EU or to withdraw from membership, this position should be made clear when discussing the question of Scottish independence. Otherwise, Scots are being misled on what ‘better together’ actually means.”

The position of Her Majesty’s Government (HMG) is intentionally ambivalent and misleading, because the parties of government are intent on pretending to care about British interests, while preserving the dominant position, which support from the EU affords them. HMG has no intention of materially altering its relationship with Brussels (and the EU’s backers in Washington) even if it is obliged, by referendum, to repeal the ‘European Communities Act’. The EU-parties (Lib/Lab/Con) would merely maintain de facto EU-adhesion – as the Norwegian government does – even if ‘membership’ were removed de jure. It is not only the Scots who are being misled about HMG’s intentions and suffering from its duplicity. UKIP’s intentions are, however, perfectly clear.

Finally, we had a comment sent in from jmcloed, who suggested we should: “Build the EU on consensus and referenda and it might work. But that would mean asking the electorates of Europe what they think, in a democratic vote. And at the moment the elites are terrified of a public vote.”

Since this hypothesis has never been, and never will be, tested, one cannot say definitively that it is futile. However, its likelihood is akin to that of distant stars’ being made of green cheese, because multilingual democracy is a near-contradiction in terms: any attempt at it, within a centralised political unit, leads to central dominance through a process of ‘divide and rule’. You can tell one nation one thing, and another nation something else, because there is no real communication between the media-circuses of the two, let alone adequate discussion between electorates.

However, even sham-democracy of this sort is – as you say – a step too far for the EU. It wants central dominance (‘integration’) and utter subjection of its parts (‘harmonisation’) as a primary condition of its existence. Indeed, the EU will – in my view – quickly dissipate, when it loses its desperate grip on the autocracy to which it has always clung.

Earlier this week, UKIP published a booklet entitled: “A Referendum Stitch-up: How the EU and British elites are plotting to fix the result“. Is this a sign that UKIP are starting to take an EU referendum in the UK as almost a done deal, and are now beginning to turn their attention to the question of how such a referendum might be won?

As several of our other interviewees have pointed out, in any (potential) referendum the framing of the question would be important. Would it be a straight “In” or “Out” question, or would there be a third option for renegotiated terms with the EU (“In”, “Out” or “Shake-it-all-about”)? Would there be a renegotiation process before the vote? A July 2012 YouGov poll found that most UK voters – 42 to 34 percent – would vote to stay in the EU if membership terms were renegotiated.

We asked Nigel Farage how UKIP would respond if anything were offered besides a straight “In” or “Out” vote. Would he be prepared to boycott the referendum?

I think we would have to. Anything else would be taken as public consent for continuing subjection to a supranational order, which UKIP completely rejects.

What do YOU think? Would a UKIP boycott call the legitimacy of any referendum on British membership of the EU into question? Would national referendums help strengthen democracy in the EU? Or is multi-lingual democracy simply a ‘contradiction in terms’? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below, and we’ll take them to policy makers and experts for their reactions.


49 comments Post a commentComment


  1. Kurt Koenig

    The position of the United Kingdom in Europe and the European Union is not precarious. The community may have its negative parts… but it is NOT against the UK.
    Not against ANY of the member state. The negative spirit is brought in by the tabloids wanting to scandalise anything, as the word scandal alone means money for them.

    I guess, the ones among the people who THINK and who draw their conclusions on their own will see that, despite the conflicts, there can only be a European Union WITH the UK. In Europe nobody is really independant. We are all neighbours. And even though the UK is “based” on islands… it is not isolated. Many processes, however, need time. You cannot see the result of decisions right away. History shows in 20 years or so whether a measure was right or not.

    So: think before you decide on whatever.

  2. David Fuzzey

    given an inout vote we will vote 49% out and 25% stay in…over 80% want and in out vote…if we get and in out vote we will leave and the sooner the better.

  3. Rallan

    UKIP is the only UK party to have stood up for public opinion on this matter, standing against the whole (deeply unpopular and untrusted) British political class.

    Make no mistake – if UKIP boycott this referendum then it will be thoroughly discredited. The outcome will not be considered legitimate by the British people, and it won’t stick.

  4. @PrimusDesignia

    The charismatic and #AnythingButSorry UKIP party leader Nigel Farage MEP spells out his vision for Europe

  5. Christos Mouzeviris

    They will..In every referendum in other countries (In Ireland for example, in all Treaty referendums) they were present and gave their support to all the parties of organizations that supported a NO position. Why they would act differently now? They just do not want the EU, or the idea of a united Europe full stop. And they will do anything to derail this plan… So what are we doing ( the pro-European powers as Mr Barroso mentioned in his State of the Union speech) to answer their arguments and prove them wrong? Their positions are clear. They have a plan. Are we?

  6. Xavier Schoumaker

    Referendums have nothing democratic as people are not at all involved in whatever proposals are being made. Dictators used referendums on themselves from Napoleon onwards. Nothing has changed. Get people involved instead of throwing pseudo-democracy at them.

  7. David Fuzzey

    What if those people want to vote on the eu?what if they want to leave?…that dosent matter?.

  8. Omar Mateiro

    If multi-lingual democracy were contradiction in terms, Belgium and Switzerland wouldn’t be real. National referendums should be mandatory over certain issues, people should participate on building the EU so they feel they belong to it as well.

  9. Karel Van Isacker

    The topics of referenda as used in the past years show that it is mostly abused for political reasons, and definitely NOT to give more voice to the people. Furthermore, as long as people are not directly voted into parliament but are placed there by political parties, a real democracy cannot exists since the mere existence of politics has corrupted democracy in its very essence: give everyone a voice and vote. So referenda have become the toy for unscrupulous politicians to play tactical games.

  10. Jack Keevill

    Completely agree with the comment above on Switzerland and multilingual democracy. Whichever way you look at it, it is a highly democratic country and ironically is usually beloved of referendum/democacy advocates (ok, so the rise of the freedom restricting far-right in CH is something of a black mark, but we’ll ignore that for the moment).
    Moreover, the ‘sovereignty’ argument seems rather illusory, since the state has ever less control over its internal affairs in an ever more interconnected world (globally, not just the EU). The EU will affect the UK whatever we do, so it seems crazy to remove the possibility of sending democratically-elected representatives to Brussels to work on – and yes, take the lead in – Europe-wide policies with their colleagues in the Council of Ministers.

  11. Christos Mouzeviris

    I agree…in referendums you do not always get an answer for what you asked, rather a reflection of the public opinion on their government’s policies. So it is hard to predict what is on the people’s minds. Yet referendums are important in democracy and we should always allow them when necessary. But we have to be careful not to be badly timed or we risk receiving the wrong outcome.

  12. eusebio manuel vestias pecurto

    Eu concordo com os referendos dentro dos estados da UE os politicos são eleitos pelo povo e o povo deve participar na construção europeia eu tenho esperanças que a Grâ- Bertanha ira ficar na UE

  13. Rallan

    Heh.

    The British people want a referendum. This has been clearly shown in debates and polls. Our politicans don’t want it but they have no choice. The public demand it.

    We will have this referendum, whether you ‘allow’ it or not. We do not need your permission . And we won’t set the timing to avoid the ‘wrong outcome.’.

    If UK politicians refuse to offer an in/out choice then UKIP will boycott the referendum, which will totally discredit the process and the politicians.

    Simply put, we are going to have a free & fair referendum whether you like it or not. The outcome will depend on what ‘in’ actually means. Let’s be clear – we do not want to be part pf a federal EU.

  14. Christos Mouzeviris

    “We” as the supporters of UKIP? Or the majority of the British people? Let’s wait for the results of the referendum then!

  15. Jack Keevill

    True – UKIP’s approval is needed for anything to be credible.

  16. Jack Keevill

    To be clear, I don’t doubt that the UK doesn’t want to be part of a federal/confederal/whatever-you-call-it EU, and probably shouldn’t be if public opinion is truly that heavily against it.

    Whether this is a well thought-out position, based on a reasonable, well-informed debate in the public sphere, is another question entirely.

    • Rallan

      There is more to national sovereignty than economics. However, I agree that the positive case for the EU simply has not been made, and I am mystified by that. Surely there is a case to be made?

      And no, I am not a UKIP member. I have simply watched the EU conduct itself, looked at the facts and decided that the EU is not right for Britain.

      If nothing else, a referndum will give an opportunity for the EU to sell the idea to the British people.

  17. catherine benniing

    The majority of the people living in the UK know very little of what Europe and the EU is or stands for. All they go on is what they read via our heavily anti Europe press. What Europe means for us as a civilization or a united force against poverty and subjugation, is entirely hidden from the British people in the main. They belive it is against their national interests to be part of Europe. Because they are not told, A) The world is Globalised and run by off shore virtually tax exempt corporations, and, B) that the UK is already heavily part of the US, who both fear the rise of Europe as an entity which if left to grow and prosper will outdo their supremacy. Which is why they destroyed the European economy because it threatened the dollar. And why is that?

    Simply put, the politics of the right, which is far more powerful in the UK than is apparent, of which, Nigel Farage, and his chums, are fully part of. They are rich men who want an open book to exploit the ‘plebs’ fully. If you doubt that, look up the storm in the political teacup this week telling us that the chief Whip in our Conservative government swore at and called the police guard outside Downing Street nothing but plebs who should kiss his rump because he is a cut above those who pay his wages. Farage is part of the wealthy right wingers who want to overthrow any UK connection to Europe as they see the Laws emanating from the EU as restrictive on their policy of absolute power. And no other UK party sees their own way in the connection either.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9566354/Andrew-Mitchell-looked-David-Cameron-in-the-eye-and-vowed-he-did-not-call-police-plebs.html#

    Nigel Farage believes, wrongly, he is of the upper crust. When he is simply a coattail hanger who likes a drink too often and enjoys being the front runner for the king makers behind him paying his way. Much of it House of Lords backed. He is a one race pony. He is a rich mans stooge paid for an objective to separate the UK from Europe at any cost.

    That aside. Out government is frantically aligning itself with the US and the White House. Cameron is this week going onto the Letterman Show in the US to beg rich, and mostly corrupt tax dodgers, there to come and set up a stall in the UK. The UK is in the process of making itself up as a full on tax haven for off shore corporations, which are really US companies avoiding that countries direct taxation. And, this was UK intention as far back as 2000 under Blair. The US and the UK, since WW2, have promoted and schemed to reduce their people and Europe, through the financial institutions toward complete subjugation of the workers.

    This guy is talking about what has already taken place from the view prior to these events. He goes on to tell us what is in the offing. Listen careful and don’t pretend you didn’t know about it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8f2k&feature=related

    Number 2:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=e-KJCMWcoms

    And now Obama blames Europe for the financial crisis of the US. The UK news media have likewise been pushing this line as a mutual save face for self exercise.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWF0sYaFS8c

    • Rallan

      No disrespect but your opinion is driven by a very left wing analysis that isn’t widely shared in the UK.

      We are already in the EU. The BBC and all of the 3 mainstream political parties are all pro EU membership. It is unreasonable to suggest that euro skeptics have an advantage! There is nothing stopping a Pro EU campaign, which will no doubt be very well funded.

      In a democracy you need to persuade the electorate with convincing arguments. If you cannot, then deserve to lose.

      You have some valid points and some not so valid ones. A good pro EU argument/defense needs to be made, and I fully expect that it will be.

      However your other points seem to be that the British people are stupid, non-lefties are evil and you don’t like Americans. I think you are wrong about all of these things.

    • catherine benning

      @Rallan:

      Just to make it clear to al. I am English. I live in England. And you may well believe the UK is not left wing as you can feel happy with that. However, the opening spectacle of the Olympics tells you quite differently. It was a left wing spectacle to the chagrin of our right wing blind men.

      Our country is definitely left and not right. It is right on issues of social engineering. The public are in the main opposed to the march of Gay marriage and their children being taught in school from the age of five that it is natural to be homosexual. It is also right wing on its attitude to immigration, because our country is overwhelmed by massive changes to our social cohesion and the Muslim oppression of women we read about daily. And on education, they want a return to the educational system we had when the UK was a leader in the field and out kids were taught the basics of how to speak English properly as well as to read and write and have the chance of a future.

      And of course many are sold on the crazy notion that they pay tax to enhance those in business and allow them to make minions our of the population because they read the junk thrown at them by newspapers who are run and owned by those same people who pay no tax. Our Tabloids are owned by those who have interests in keeping britain tied into the farce we have.

      However, beneath all that facade it is a center left heartbeat. And if you doubt it, wait until the next election and see. The majority of people despise the Tory party and all it stands for. They simply have yet to realise that Farage and his crew are paid for by the sitting Lords who want to remain in the seat of power along with the monarchy.

      We are no already in the EU, we are simply fence sitters without a shred of commitment to it. We are committed to being a warring force with the US. Our simpletons in government get off on that ‘world’ stage position they think they have. And you are typical of those who fear to know and see reality. So you take facts and hide from them like the racehorse who wears blinkers.

      Anyone who takes up with a con man after he has already taken them to the cleaners and tries to proclaim, as you are, that anyone who draws attention to the facts does not like the con man, has to be a sadist.

      And to clarify your last insulting line. I above all people do not believe the British people are stupid. Only fed a line of anti self preservation propaganda by right wing off shore tax haven lovers both sides of the Atlantic. There is no such thing as lefties in the UK political species, that is a game played by hard right wing traitors akin to Tony Blair. And lastly, I not only like the American people, I feel a deep compassion for them as individuals. You are right when you say, I do not like their government policies and what they do under the guise of ‘good guy.’. And I really dislike intensely my governments association with those people and their policies and the move to make us the 51st State.

      You may be interested to read the Tory party manifesto telling the people in small print and in an obscure way that they intend to push us further toward union with the US.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tw1ZU5gfpc

      Oh, and the BBC is not pro EU. The BBC is a government machine. A propaganda machine doing the will of the government of the day. As it changes, so does the output of the BBC. How you could call the BBC pro EU when their daily programmes have nothing that is not approved, including the news, which is US off line feed, stories and social engineering campaigns. Which, rather than those with simple minds believe as, left wing, is in fact, hard right wing anti citizen agenda. Designed to remove a quality of life from those who pay for their existence in order for those at the top to have more.

    • Rallan

      Your analysis is not simply left wing, it is is VERY left wing. Your views are a long way from the left-wing mainstream (yes, I do know what I am talking about) and I am correct when I say that they are not widely shared.

      As for the political leaning of Britain, and particularly England, I do not intend to debate this here. I simply refer you to electoral history, political reality and the recent AV referendum. The facts stand for themselves. There is no progressive majority.

      You can (and probably will) write another lengthy response on why (in your opinion) you are so very right & good and how I (and so many, many, many others) am utterly wrong & wicked. You can take as much offence as you wish. But you can’t change reality.

    • catherine benning

      @Rallan:

      You are extraordinary.

      You write that I have answered you with a long reply and that no doubt I shall do so again. Yet, here you are all over this site with your corn ball yap telling all and sundry a pocket full of outright exaggerations, whilst calling those who oppose your viewpoint ‘very hard left,’ or, taking up too much room here…. It’s laughable.

      First off my views are widely shared, unlike yours, which are so right wing you lose in the first line. Lets ask you to elaborate. What exactly is it you expect the UK to do once you have your way and it is out of Europe? The rest of the world you crack on about as our saviours are based solely on the idea that somehow you will be able to resume our stand as colonists with the Commonwealth. And along with that the threat of the USA to force those countries worth pursuing, Australia, New Zealand, et al, with some kind of sanction against their presumed security if they don’t bend to the will. Protectionism. What you are really proposing is an absorbing by the US of our entire policy ethos under the guise of defence of the realm. The Blair tactic.

      Lets go one step further, what then? We have left Europe, what changes do you expect to take place as a result? Lay it out. Here is your platform. Give it to us in detail. Show us your promised land.

      I suppose we must start with the House of Lords and its expansion. As the bill for your political machine is footed by that crowd, in the main. Old Tory appointees and hangers on who have made a pretty penny out of the tax payers of the UK for far longer than they have any right to.

      Explain, use these pages to sell us your wonderful right wing, anti pleb line and let us see for ourselves how we will benefit from it. Use the old how bad Europe is for our independent law making as that offensive ‘Human Rights Law’ gets in the way of secret courts and torture, rendition, and the sending of ordinary citizens to jail for seven and eight years respectively without charges. Which is what is happening in the UK right as I put this here.

      And then, didn’t the UKIP party promise a return to the idea of Capital punishment in the UK. Hang them all and preferably without a trial, or, one held in secret. Thats’ the way ahead. Follow the superstate in the impoverishment of their people and war, war, war. whilst we put the rest on death row. Murdering as many innocent poor as they do. How many of those innocent Irishmen would be dead today if the death penalty had been around in Britain over the last fifty years? However, would we have known about the Birmingham six or the others, as it would all be held in secret courts, in Camera.

      That is your party. You are obsessed with WW2 and spitfires, making hay of all those upperty Europeans who manage to keep themselves civilised.

      Lets hear it. What are your policies?

  18. Rallan

    It is very unlikely that Britain would accept being part of a federal EU. It is also very unlikely that the EU will stop moving towards this.

    It is therefore probable that Britain will either leave the EU entirely or re-negotiate a semi-detached relationship with it. It is also probable that other countries would look for a similar semi-detached relationship if Britain ended up in this position.

    I would be interested in discussing what form a semi-detached “outer EU” group of nations might take, or if such an arrangement would be simply unacceptable?

  19. Jack Keevill

    What is frustrating is that, as you say Rallan, the debate is one sided – and hijacked by a tiny, one-issue party (I heard them described as a pressure group on radio 4 last week, which doesn’t seem far off the mark) who spout myths bordering on conspiracy stories; they could probably find the illuminati insignia just off the Schuman roundabout if they wanted to. Quite frankly, they don’t seem to have a particularly sound grasp of how the EU works – the fact that Farage only occasionally turns up for his committee work in the Parliament may be a factor… Endless ‘barmy Brussels bureaucrat’ stories in the tabloids don’t help, either.

    Sikorski’s (the Polish foreign minister) speech was a welcome voice of reason (and from an ex-Bullingdon club member, no less…), but it’s telling that it takes a foreign politician to make the case. My hunch would be that mainstream parties don’t think that Europe is as important an issue to the electorate as the economy, healthcare, education etc and so prefer to concentrate on those core policies instead. Obviously that remains open to discussion.

    As for the form of future British membership, some kind of ‘Associate membership’ seems a good bet, presumably with obligations in certain areas and opt-outs in others, possibly with something like ‘observer status’ – speaking rights but no vote – on Council configurations for areas where the opt-outs exist. I doubt there would be a single, homogenous ‘outer group’ as such, as each will want opt-outs from different areas for different reasons. Not sure how this would differ from the current situation.

    Well that’s my tuppence/2 €-cents.

  20. Rallan

    Not going to agree re UKIP. They are becoming a significant political player polling over 10%. However, that’s not important. UKIP have not hijacked the argument, they simply state their case. It seems like they are the loudest voice because they are really the ONLY voice that speaks with conviction!

    As discussed, no positive argument for the EU has been put forward. Whose fault is that?

    I actually think a formal ‘outer’ memhership is the only practical way forward. It might be difficult but it would create harmony and stability in a 2 teir EU. Otherwise the different arrangements would breed resentment and dissatisfaction.

  21. Rallan

    @ catherine benning

    Software won’t allow me to do a ‘reply’ so I will respond here.

    You go on about right wingers, plebs and spitfires, America and conspiracies and all the rest. You make wild assumptions about me, and point at some pretty wild eyed left wing garbage on YouTube.

    I came here to discuss the EU, offering a realistic, rational euroskeptic view. I am not a member of any political party. I have this thing called a ‘reasoned opinion’. You wouldn’t understand it.

    I do not want to engage with a member of the loony left. I have no interest in your over-long off-topic posts, nor am I going to answer to your ridiculous, unfounded fantasy assumptions about me. I will not reply to you any more.

    • catherine benning

      @Rallan:

      Pot calling kettle black here.

      And you can’t respond because you don’t have answers to the flim flam you spout. Do you? Facing the fact you don’t know throws you on your rump and that is uncomfortable as you are a UKIP pusher which you cling to vehemently as a way forward. You love telling all you want to hoodwink that the British think like you and if we were out of Europe we would have a really great set of policies to live by. Or, those who don’t go along your path and crow like me against it, are too ‘left wing.’ As I am always in the throws of being told I am a right wing harbinger, something in your analysis is off course. So, I must be somewhere in the middle. Which is exactly what I am.

      If you can’t stand opposition, what on earth are you doing on a political website? A political site is where you make your stand. You know, akin to Speakers Corner.

      Give it a try, put your policy issues forward and lets see if the UK is really for getting out of Europe along the UKIP line…. Can’t do that though can you? It may expose the reality of your agenda.

  22. Peter Schellinck

    Because up till now in the UK there has been little consistency in the use of referendums in spite of being part of the UK’s democratic and constitutional framework, the UKIP boycott wouldn’t call the legitimacy into question. So far referendums have taken place on an ad hoc basis, frequently as a tactical device rather than on the basis of constitutional principle. Not like in Switzerland, where a long tradition of holding referendums exist and the process being part of the society fabric.

    The present looming economical and political crisis is likely to have long-term effects. Together with the lack of properly informed citizens this will lead to a negative outcome of any referendum. The ground for institutionalizing a new division in Europe paradoxically reemerges in the process of its reunification. As a consequence the logic of integration would be interrupted. The decline in cohesiveness and policy consistence among the EU institutions has a potentially disruptive effect for all acceding and candidate countries. Against this background it wouldn’t be advisable to have national referendums, although the recent elections in the Netherlands has proven resilience to the EU project.

    It is surprising for an experienced politician to claim multi-lingual democracy as a ‘contradiction in terms’. The prime question is how to make multilingual democracy work in a democratically legitimate way. Moreover the current situation can also fuel political incomprehension and conflicts, which Nigel Farage likes fueling. Therefore it is necessary to look for ways to respect and stimulate the development of public communities or regions. The development of a genuine pan-European public sphere would be the most ideal way to solve the democratic deficit.

    As I stated before, the absence of clear procedures for deliberative governance creates conditions for replacing the European agenda with domestic politics. First show that the project Europe can work and no referendums will be needed.

  23. Mr Truth to Farage

    Isnt it funny how Nigel Farage from the UK complain about democracy in the European Union when his own party got a million votes or 3.1% of all popular votes in the UK election 2010 and yet have no representative or voice. In fact, the only place the UKIP does have representation and a voice is in the European Union, despite his and the parties preposterous claims about the European Union democracy.

    Perhaps Nigel Farage and the UKIP is fighting the battle for democracy in the wrong place?

  24. Free Fox

    I just want to pick up on a few things Catherine Benning said. (please forgive any errors. Typing on my phone.)

    I have been on an awakening of some sorts lately. The internet a very educational tool. Only yesterday I was reading about corporate facsism.

    I liked alot of what you said. And I agree with alot of it. And people should not ignore it just because it rocks their understanding of the world. However, I would like to know your reasoning that the EU is a beacon of hope for the people?

    The ECB is pushing through QE, just like everyone else. Which as you know is a tax on the poor. The draconion measures being inflicted on the poorer nations of the EU is inhuman. My heart goes out to the people of Greece. And the EAW has taken us back 500 years. I will refrain from going into more detail at this time. You can understand my position on the EU.
    Let me be clear on this, I am bitterly opposed to our establishment parties. And I am equally opposed to the EU. I believe they are both equal in their guilt in assisting the rich to fleece the poor.

    It is my strongest hope that the people of Europe show the same resolve as the Icelandics when they were told to expect decades of austerity. The sooner we are rid of this undemocratic elitist club, the better.

    • catherine benning

      @Free Fox:

      In response to your question of why the EU continues to follow the lead of the banking industry and doesn’t join Iceland in its escape from that mire.

      Partly because they want to keep trading with the USA. There is big bucks in selling to the American public. If they simply cut and run the Aerican administration would react in the same way the Mafia does if you reject its policies. It would set up a sting similar to the sabotage of the Euro. And remember the German Chancellor is of the Capitalist leaning along with many in the European administration on its belief in austerity being the answer to a Capitalist economy.

      However, I don’t truly believe they are convinced this is the solution. And that when they face up to what has truly taken place world wide, they will make moves to counter the demise and protect themselves from further abuse.

      To clarify my position. i am not fully in love with the European commision and its often nincompoop politically correct control of the population here. It is stultifying us and leading to ineffectual thinking. However, I do feel that the only way to maintain the civilisation we have fostered and will continue to do so, as a result of the people of our continent knowing what a wonderful system we have and how it is worth sustaining. Brussels has yet to fully realise a stranglehold on the thinking and responses of a population leads to robotic malfunction and stagnation. I feel Europe does not want this as they know it is counter productive. Whereas those who have a slavish wish to control have no interest in the advancement of human potential and the satisfaction of a people. Their concern is simply to dominate in the extreme.

      Here is an interesting viewpoint. It has definite flaws but the overview is on the button. It broadens lateral thinking and explains quite a bit of the mnds behind these thrones.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFwMQG27nSA

      And this is a follow up. All of it food for thought.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdY11bpQMgw

  25. Ian Ward

    UKIP needs something to complain about. I think that it is a one issue party that will fall apart if there were to be a referendum and it supported the UK leaving and so it wants to be able to complain about “a stitch up” if a referendum supported the UK’s continuing membership to enable it to continue to be able to pushing it’s agenda even after the voters have spoken.

    • catherine benning

      I heard UKIP are haggling for a coaltion with Labour at the next election in 2015, as they feel they are on the up and will beat the LibDems by a long shot. Now how complicated is that? Hankering after a union with a group who believe in the ongoing federation of Europe as they tell us they want to run as far across the Atlantic away from it as they can. A definite sign of reality stepping in there after all. They are realising the voters are not upset about our belonging to Europe as much as they are disappointed at the Conservatives pushing for gay marriage and turning their back on the family by removing child beneift from those barely able to cut the mustard.

      And as a little side bar, Farage, the titular head of the group, is married to a German woman and he is of Belgian decent or heritage. ROTFWL. I love that snippet of information.

  26. Anne Palmer

    For the people possibly Voting “YES” in the United Kingdom to remain in the European Union as far advanced as the European Union is at present with the likely hood they would never again would be allowed a referendum especially as the last referendum on this issue was 1975, a “YES” to remain in the EU now, would be destroying their own Constitution, and according to R v Thistlewood, 1820 to destroy the Constitution is treason.

    A referendum suggests that our Constitution is negotiable. It is not. Contemplating overthrowing our Constitution is treason and inciting other people to overthrow our Constitution, as in calling for a referendum, is also treason.

    What we can do however, in the General Election of 2015, as we know without doubt we have three major Political Parties that all want to remain in the European Union-FOREVER, is to use the General Election as your once promised REFERENDUM and only vote into power, those Political Organisations and Political Parties that want OUT of the European Union completely.

  27. Streetwalker

    Catherine Benning.
    UKIP are not haggling for a coalition with anyone. Any future agreements with other parties would of course have strings attached . The rise of UKIP could well see them having the balance of power in a hung government, so yes a coalition with Labour is possible though I think unlikely .
    I am glad you are amused by Mr Farages family ties and choice of spouse, though fail to see why. You see there is a misconception that UKIP are against all things Europe,the truth being that we love Europe , the European people , its towns , cities its cultures. The problem is we also love our cities , people and cultures. We love our British way of life , our laws our democracy . In short we love Europe , we just dont want to be ruled by it.

  28. Anne

    Is the “END GAME “World Federation” as debated in the UK Parliament House of Lords 7th May 1953, so very soon after that World War? Fact. We vote and pay our elected Governments to Govern this Country the only way this Country should be Governed, which is by its very Long standing Common law Constitution. The people have never once agreed to any EC/EEC/EU Treaty before any one was signed and ratified. The people had a Referendum in 1953 when they were told quite deliberate lies about what that first Treaty was about and the people could not check at that time what was in that Treaty of ROME for there was no Internet available for the people. They were lied to by a Prime Minister in that there would be no loss of essential Sovereignty, and that lie was later admitted on Television. It must be remembered here in the UK, if a referendum is held here BEFORE the GENERAL ELECTION and the Conservatives do not get back into Government-”No Parliament may bind another”.

    I no longer trust any Government to hold a true and fair REFERENDUM on this Subject whether one is held before or after the General Election in 2015. however. The REFERENDUM will indeed be held in 2015 and it is called A GENERAL ELECTION.

  29. Zompie

    I agree with Anne. The only “Referendum” worth a damn, is the 2015 General Election. Let’s see where the chips fall…. So you all know what to do!

    If you want ‘OUT’ then vote UKIP
    If you want ‘IN’ vote for anyone else

    Maybe we’ll see some honest voting for a change (but I doubt it)…

  30. Anne

    HmmmmpZompie You are indeed RIGHT especially as we now know for certain ALL THREE POLITICAL PARTIES WANT TO REMAIN IN THE EU-forever. We MUST indeed use the General Election as the REFERENDUM we have been denied and vote for Organisations and Political parties that want out of the EU NOW and if we end up with the Monster Raving Loony Party, so be it, but at least we will get out of the EU. The people of this Country have never agreed to or ratified any EU Treaty. They can however repeal the European Communities act 1972/3 and then Repudiate all EU Treaties held in the Vienna Convention on the laws of Treaties presently Lodged in the United Nations.

  31. astrixbritania

    Nigel Farage MEP, shouldn’t you help UK members being victimized and abused in France/Europe? Never mind about the party that you represent in the UK, how about tackling corroborative behavior and getting ones human rights enforced and stop any such unnecessary abuse as a result! Its a shame that most of the MEPs in the UK are NOT interested nor respond anyhow…There are laws and rules of course, but when France simply ignores any such rules and ignores any such issues then nothing will ever get resolved irrespective of what ever laws are created as a result! Please do get real as all world wide organizations and associations as well as the local governments are all going to be exposed and people going to be able to see what the EU is really NOT doing to help its members. Its discussing that someone can be ignored and abused and now have a criminal file and ruin their reputation through NO fault of their own. Soon people will see the real picture of Europe and their rules and I’m sure will boycott the lot as a result of its incompetence and arrogance too.
    I hope and pray that someone will soon take note and help to stamp out this sort of bad behavior and to make all the local government officials take note and to deal with any such matters seriously!
    astrixbritania

  32. Anne

    We want Nigel Farage just to concentrate in setting the people of the United Kingdom FREE FROM FOREIGN RULE, and then perhaps the rest of those Countries TRAPPED IN THE EU will also find the courage to set themselve FREE once more.

  33. PAVEL

    The UK, if it is decided to leave Europe, leaving the EU, right now! I think England should be outside the membership of the European Union, as it does not collect in favor of the EU.
    And for Scotland and Wales, better oddelât from England

  34. PAVEL

    The UK, if it is decided to leave Europe, leaving the EU, right now! I think England should be outside the membership of the European Union, as it does not collect in favor of the EU.
    And for Scotland and Wales, better to separate from England

  35. Anne

    The only way the people of the United Kingdom may perhaps have the chance to set themselves FREE FROM FOREIGN RULE, is to use the GENERAL ELECTION in 2015 as the REFERENDUM they have been denied. To put their Country and its freedom before their own Political Party and only vote for those Political Parties or Organisations that want out of the EU-forever. SIMPLES!

    • PAVEL

      I’m not going to vote.
      I just wanted to share that England does not have to be a member of the European UnionWhy I think so, explain: The Government of England, timed and continues to introduce, “restricting DISCRIMINATORY LAWS, which laws the Government of England, treats its citizens, deprive them of freedom, freedom of movement and rights! Each State member of the European Union-there should be no obstacles to free movement. I am not a lawyer.
      I have experience in the field of Laws in administrative and criminal activities
      To find out who I am, please visit the link, and then follow each one information-then continue to make comments!

      http://www.blogtopsites.com/profile/PetkovPavel

    • DaveH

      So, if UKIP get less than 10%, you will admit you are just a minority bunch of fruitcakes and any 2017 referendum is not required?
      Thought not.

  36. Publius

    There is a logical leap in Mr Farage’s statement, soverignity does NOT ensure democracy. We’ve witnessed countless times when a colony enjoys much better democracy than other independent coutry. Of course, democracy in some instances lead to independence, but repeating the soverignity rhetoric to denouce civil liberty is often seen as an authoritarian practice.

  37. DaveH

    It is interesting that UKIP’s 2012 leaflet declaring any referendum would be a stitch-up has now disappeared from the UKIP site. Maybe it was shown to be a pack of lies?
    UKIP is a fascist, authoritarian party, whose appeal of hate and blame is directed at foreigners without a vote. They do not discuss Pakistani immigration, because Commonwealth citizens have a vote. They wrote that pamphlet, son they can claim any In vote was fraudulent and start up again.

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